Speaker 1: The Armstrong and Getty show this black man with black
Speaker 1: we will we all let you all speak of Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: you know what, America does not want to witness a
Speaker 1: food fight. They want to know how we're gonna put
Speaker 1: food on their table. So she and she established right
Speaker 1: off the bat Kamala Harrison the debate last night that
Speaker 1: she was going to try to take charge, and she
Speaker 1: looked like to take charge personal night long. I just
Speaker 1: wanted to throw in this bussing stat and I do
Speaker 1: not want to talk about I do not want to
Speaker 1: argue about a policy from forty years ago. But um
Speaker 1: the Washington to bring up Vietnam. The Washington Post pointing
Speaker 1: that Joe Biden's views on bussing have been where America's
Speaker 1: have been throughout his career. In in nineteen seventy three,
Speaker 1: when Biden was in the Senate, they asked, uh, they
Speaker 1: surveyed people on their opinion of bussing. Five percent favored
Speaker 1: bussing five four percent of whites, nine percent of black
Speaker 1: so about half. And because Biden, uh wasn't enthusiastically for that,
Speaker 1: he's getting beaten up in the year twenty nineteen, right,
Speaker 1: the difficulty of having a record, lan he Chen joined us.
Speaker 1: Lan he is the host of the podcast Crossing Lines.
Speaker 1: Lan he Chen also David Dyan stay If your research
Speaker 1: fellow at the Hoover Institution as well as Director of
Speaker 1: Domestic Policy Studies and Lecture in the Public Policy Program
Speaker 1: at Stanford University. Lan here, how are you, sir? Good
Speaker 1: to do with you this morning? So? Would you make
Speaker 1: of the debate last night? Overall impressions? Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I think first of all, it was a difficult situation
Speaker 1: for Joe Biden. It's just a tough it's tough to
Speaker 1: go into these debates with you know, ten eleven people
Speaker 1: as the front letter. It's just it's difficult. And you know,
Speaker 1: I remember this was a position that Mitt Romney was
Speaker 1: in when I was working on that campaign. It's just
Speaker 1: a difficult position to defend well. And Biden did not
Speaker 1: do a good job of it last night, and I
Speaker 1: think that's going to be an issue for him. The
Speaker 1: other thing is, you know what these debates are good for,
Speaker 1: primarily are which candidates that we're not talking about already
Speaker 1: are we going to be talking about are going to
Speaker 1: get a good look. So from the first night, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, Corey Booker was certainly helped. Betto Rourke was
Speaker 1: heard obviously that commessional wisdom is shoe. Castro was helped
Speaker 1: a little bit. And you know, look, Kamala Harris had
Speaker 1: a good night last night. We'll see how long it
Speaker 1: carries over for But I think that's the most important takeaway.
Speaker 1: Is not gonna be harriss but Biden. Yeah, how long? Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, to your point, I was thinking about
Speaker 1: last night back to I remember Mitt would be on
Speaker 1: stage in the middle because he was leading in the polls,
Speaker 1: and you to have everybody on the sides, and he
Speaker 1: would kind of stand there and be above it all
Speaker 1: and people yell at each other and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and he felt like, you know, and then this is
Speaker 1: gradually where the Republicans ended up. He felt like the
Speaker 1: guy that was kind of the grown up among them all. Yeah, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, you had all the bickering last night. But
Speaker 1: I'm not sure Biden was able to pull off that
Speaker 1: Romney I'm the grown up here thing. No, he wasn't.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think Romney had a very good string
Speaker 1: of debates in twelve and that's what helped him to
Speaker 1: the nomination that year. You know, we'll see how Biden
Speaker 1: handles it. If I were a Biden fan, or if
Speaker 1: I were someone who really was on the Biden team,
Speaker 1: there are reasons for concern about last night that go
Speaker 1: beyond just hey, it was a bad performance. We all
Speaker 1: have had, you know, performances we wish we could do over.
Speaker 1: We all have things we wish we could do over.
Speaker 1: But but the problem with Biden for last night is
Speaker 1: it's about more than just one bad performance. It's this
Speaker 1: fundamental question of do you have a guy who is
Speaker 1: a nineteen seventies candidate running in two thousand, twenty early
Speaker 1: seventies candidates? Yeah? Yeah, I mean it goes It goes
Speaker 1: to his record, It goes to his aisle, it goes
Speaker 1: to how he looks, his age, all of these things.
Speaker 1: In my mind, the question is is he going to
Speaker 1: be able to adapt to this cycle? And so far
Speaker 1: the answer has been a resounding no. And last night,
Speaker 1: I think added only to the impression that he is
Speaker 1: completely out of step and out of touch with it.
Speaker 1: Where the Democratic Party is today. Boy, that's the one.
Speaker 1: That's what I took away from it too. I just
Speaker 1: didn't think he was sharp at all. Some of the
Speaker 1: most obvious things he had to be ready to parry.
Speaker 1: He could not, and it just to me it was
Speaker 1: a little sad. But we'll see where it goes from there. Hey, listen,
Speaker 1: we could talk about you know, winners and losers or
Speaker 1: or I'd prefer people who stock improved or declined. And
Speaker 1: I'm looking at predicted dot org and sure enough, Kamala
Speaker 1: Harris's stock is up slightly, Joe Biden's down fairly significantly.
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders is the biggest downward mover last night. I
Speaker 1: didn't see that. I thought he absolutely won the sharp
Speaker 1: old Guy prize between himself and Joe Biden. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the reason why is because the question has
Speaker 1: to do with who's going to occupy that progressive left lane,
Speaker 1: because you know, the likelihood is you're not going to
Speaker 1: have more than one or two candidates at the most.
Speaker 1: And if you look at Elizabeth Warren from the first
Speaker 1: night and Kamala Harris from last night, you know that's
Speaker 1: probably more than enough for that lane. And that's probably
Speaker 1: why the share is coming out of Bernie Sanders, because
Speaker 1: the perception is that he's competing for the same voters. Now,
Speaker 1: whether that's Sue or not, we'll see, but I think
Speaker 1: that's the perception. The other questions that I would ask
Speaker 1: people to consider is this, did the candidates do anything
Speaker 1: the last two nights that will compromise their ability to
Speaker 1: win a general election? We want to go yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: because with you out, every candidate on stage say there's
Speaker 1: no such thing as being an illegal immigrant anymore. And
Speaker 1: by the way, you get free healthcare. No way you
Speaker 1: become president with those positions, is there? No. I don't
Speaker 1: see how you can embrace the notion, for example, of decriminalizing, uh,
Speaker 1: the crossing of the US border as an undocumented immigrant.
Speaker 1: I don't see how you can support free health care
Speaker 1: for all undocumented immigrants. By the way, I'll fail you
Speaker 1: can support taking away private health insurance from a hundred
Speaker 1: and sixty million Americans. I mean, that's a disaster in
Speaker 1: my mind, the notion, you know, in Kamala Harris, by
Speaker 1: the way, for all of her great performance last night
Speaker 1: and whatever, she fundamentally compromised herself because she's been all
Speaker 1: over the map on this Medicare for all government run
Speaker 1: health care thing. First, she tells Jake Tapper a couple
Speaker 1: of months ago, we're gonna get rid of private insurance.
Speaker 1: Then she walks it back a few days later. Then
Speaker 1: last night she's out there against saying yes, let's take
Speaker 1: away private health insurance. She and Elizabeth Warren are in
Speaker 1: a completely compromised position in my mind, for the general election.
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is going to beat them over the head
Speaker 1: every single day with this notion that they're going to
Speaker 1: get rid of the health insurance that you have and
Speaker 1: you like and replace it with a big government, socialist
Speaker 1: style solution. The ridiculous of them to go there, I said,
Speaker 1: surely they are not gonna stand up in front of
Speaker 1: a bunch of steel workers or miners or whatever and
Speaker 1: one of your industrial states and say, and now we're
Speaker 1: giving free healthcare to illegals and expect to win. Are they? Well?
Speaker 1: You know, again, this is the challenge with the primary
Speaker 1: is that you've got to move to where your base is,
Speaker 1: and the progressive base of the Democratic Party, that's where
Speaker 1: they are, you know, And they and those are the
Speaker 1: people they're pandering to. Those are the votes they're trying
Speaker 1: to get, and and that's the lane they're trying to occupy.
Speaker 1: And I think it's very shortsighted the notion that you
Speaker 1: go there to win the primary, but you'd completely compromise
Speaker 1: yourself for the general. And in that sense, I think
Speaker 1: Joe Biden, yes, he answered the question about the undocumented
Speaker 1: illegal immigrants to give the healthcare. He did say he
Speaker 1: would give them free healthcare, but he didn't go as
Speaker 1: far I think is the other one. So he still
Speaker 1: has the general election in mind. But boy, Kamala Harris
Speaker 1: and Elizabeth Warren are in big trouble. That's interesting, and
Speaker 1: I just I'm old and cynical, So I see people
Speaker 1: moving to the general and just complain completely changing their
Speaker 1: stripes and you know, and the moderates weren't paying attention
Speaker 1: to the activities of the hardcore during the early primaries anyway,
Speaker 1: so they don't know or they don't care. But you
Speaker 1: think they've actually, you know, stuck their steak in far
Speaker 1: enough it's going to be difficult to pull out. Well.
Speaker 1: I I think the dynamic that makes this election different
Speaker 1: from other previous elections is Donald Trump. And I do
Speaker 1: think I have to give Trump a lot of credit
Speaker 1: because I think he is going to be uniquely able
Speaker 1: to just take a single message or a set of
Speaker 1: messages and just drive that thing until people are completely sick.
Speaker 1: Of it. But they're gonna know, trust me, they're gonna
Speaker 1: know whoever the Democratic nominee is is for giving illegal
Speaker 1: immigrants free healthcare. They're gonna know that whoever the nominee
Speaker 1: is is likely going to be for government run health care.
Speaker 1: And I think Trump Trump is able to carry that
Speaker 1: message uniquely, and I think it's going to damage whoever
Speaker 1: the Democrat is. I think I think it's a big,
Speaker 1: big problem for them, guys, I really do. I didn't
Speaker 1: feel like, I don't know how they come back from it.
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like watching the two nights, the only
Speaker 1: person that seemed like they had the energy, the fire,
Speaker 1: the just the stature to be on stage with Trump
Speaker 1: and matcham was was Kamala last night, not Elizabeth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe Elizabeth Warren. Your thought on either one of them
Speaker 1: matched up with the Tanderine tornadoes stylistically apart from the policies. Look,
Speaker 1: I think Kamala Harris acquitted herself very favorably last night.
Speaker 1: I I do think that she has uh, she has
Speaker 1: the energy, and she has the style to be able
Speaker 1: to compete in a different way from others. I just
Speaker 1: think Elizabeth Warren is going to perceive a shrill. I
Speaker 1: have a very difficult time seeing her being there in
Speaker 1: the end and people really liking her. I think said
Speaker 1: she said, it's like my wife said, It's like my
Speaker 1: mom's yelling at me every time I watched Elizabeth Lauren.
Speaker 1: You know it's funny, though, is she actually believes in
Speaker 1: what art, to my mind lunatic policies? Kamala is just
Speaker 1: pretending to temporarily and we'll be walking in the back.
Speaker 1: But at least you gotta give Liz credit for consistency. Um,
Speaker 1: so listen, predictions are stupid, So throwing caveats or whatever
Speaker 1: you want, lan he but um, you know, if you
Speaker 1: were on predicted dot org, which I'm looking at right now,
Speaker 1: the market for candidates who would you throw your money
Speaker 1: at two or three is fine? Um, you know, I
Speaker 1: I probably would throw it at Harris, I would throw
Speaker 1: it at Warren, and I you know, I might throw
Speaker 1: a little bit at at Julian costro to to to
Speaker 1: the point we're talking about earlier. I don't know what
Speaker 1: he's at right now, but he's probably pretty cheap still.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing yeah, he is dead. Well. The problem with
Speaker 1: Biden is he's still overvalued. I think so if you're
Speaker 1: talking about it from a marketplace perspective, I still think
Speaker 1: he's got way too much juice for somebody who I
Speaker 1: don't think it's going to be there, So I'm sure.
Speaker 1: Did you mean politically you might pass away before the
Speaker 1: next debate? Oh no, No, politically politically let's let's let's
Speaker 1: let's hope he makes it through. But but but politically,
Speaker 1: good bless him. Lan he chen is with the Hoover
Speaker 1: Institution Stanford University, also host to the podcast, which is
Speaker 1: due for a little update Lonie crossing lines with Lani
Speaker 1: chen Uh and we knew had an episode last week
Speaker 1: and we're gonna We're gonna do another one next week. Perfect, terrific.
Speaker 1: Glad to hear that. I can't wait to listen. It's
Speaker 1: always great. Long he thanks for the time. We'll talk soon.
Speaker 1: Our conversation with him, And so many conversations I've seen
Speaker 1: with pundits, and Pete's name doesn't even come up mayor Pete,
Speaker 1: no even mentions it little Pete. And that's something because
Speaker 1: he was kind of quiet and grown up sounding. But
Speaker 1: then that doesn't work right now, well, into my mind,
Speaker 1: a little submissive and and just too little not bombastic enough,
Speaker 1: certainly are and