1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,880
Speaker 1: News of President Trump testing positive for the coronavirus has

2
00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:07,560
Speaker 1: whirled the country, perhaps throwing even more chaos into an

3
00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,360
Speaker 1: already frenetic election year. Trump has been casting doubts on

4
00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,600
Speaker 1: the validity of any election results for some time, and

5
00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,720
Speaker 1: during Tuesday's debate, he suggested that the presidential election will

6
00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,560
Speaker 1: be contested and then it might get ugly if he

7
00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,400
Speaker 1: doesn't win. I am urging my people. I hope it's

8
00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,479
Speaker 1: going to be a fair election. If it's a fair election,

9
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,240
Speaker 1: I am a on board. But if I see tens

10
00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,880
Speaker 1: of thousands of ballots being manipulated, I can't go along

11
00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,080
Speaker 1: with that. Joining me is elections law expert Richard Brafald,

12
00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,880
Speaker 1: a professor at Columbia Law School, where start by explaining

13
00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,240
Speaker 1: how the law gives states the power to take electoral

14
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,519
Speaker 1: votes back from the voters. As everyone knows, the election

15
00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,760
Speaker 1: for president is really an election decided by the electoral College,

16
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,000
Speaker 1: and every state has provided that its electoral votes will

17
00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:59,560
Speaker 1: be determined by who wins the popular election on November three. However,

18
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,320
Speaker 1: under the Constitution, the state legislatures have the right to

19
00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,240
Speaker 1: decide how their electoral votes are going to be cast,

20
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,600
Speaker 1: and although this has never happened since state legislatures have

21
00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,000
Speaker 1: collectively decided to entrust this decision. Since the popular vote,

22
00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,919
Speaker 1: the issue has been raised about whether or not, after

23
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,000
Speaker 1: election day, the state legislature of any given state could

24
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,920
Speaker 1: decide to cast that state's electoral vote on its own.

25
00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,000
Speaker 1: That issue has never come up before, and we don't

26
00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,200
Speaker 1: know what would happen if the state legislature after election

27
00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,400
Speaker 1: day passed as a law that says we're giving our

28
00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,480
Speaker 1: electoral votes to so and so. But that issue has

29
00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:37,400
Speaker 1: come up partly because of efforts raised by the President

30
00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,679
Speaker 1: and others to cast a cloud over the legitimacy of

31
00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,880
Speaker 1: the popular vote at a time when more people than

32
00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,560
Speaker 1: ever are going to be voting by mail. One issue

33
00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,240
Speaker 1: is how long will it take to get the popular

34
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,240
Speaker 1: vote tabulated and what issues are going to be raised

35
00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,160
Speaker 1: about that, and to what extent Trump from the Republicans

36
00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,960
Speaker 1: going to try and deny the legitimacy of the popular

37
00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,400
Speaker 1: vote if it goes against them as a way of

38
00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,000
Speaker 1: justifying an action by a state legislature stay like in

39
00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,000
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania or Wisconsin, to get its electoral votes to Trump.

40
00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,160
Speaker 1: So what does the timetable for this look like? The

41
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,520
Speaker 1: timetable for this is partly driven by something called the

42
00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,920
Speaker 1: Electoral Count Act. So in eight seven, following the disputed

43
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,520
Speaker 1: election of eighteen seventy six, Congress past a law trying

44
00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,840
Speaker 1: to bind itself in the future as to how it

45
00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,520
Speaker 1: would deal with disputed sets of electoral votes. And what

46
00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,280
Speaker 1: it said is that so long as the state resolves

47
00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,880
Speaker 1: any dispute about who's wont its electoral votes by six

48
00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,960
Speaker 1: days before the electoral College is supposed to meet this year,

49
00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,079
Speaker 1: it's Nomber sixte and provided that the state resolved all

50
00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,920
Speaker 1: its disputes by six days before that, Congress has pledged

51
00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,360
Speaker 1: to accept the winner of the states electoral votes. So

52
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,960
Speaker 1: that's sometimes called the safe Harvard deadline. They can still

53
00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,520
Speaker 1: take those results later. There's nothing that prohibits them from

54
00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,600
Speaker 1: accepting later results. Those deadlines are really an artifact of

55
00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,519
Speaker 1: congre but it's effectively about five weeks after election day,

56
00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,600
Speaker 1: and one question is will five weeks be enough time

57
00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,400
Speaker 1: not just to tabulate all the absentee votes, but also

58
00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,640
Speaker 1: to resolve the many challenges that are likely to be

59
00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:17,279
Speaker 1: brought against them. Several states are involved in fights disputes

60
00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,280
Speaker 1: over allowing election officials to begin counting absentee ballots before

61
00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,040
Speaker 1: election day? What's the general rule? Is there a general

62
00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:31,280
Speaker 1: rule about counting absentee ballots before election day? The general

63
00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,840
Speaker 1: rule in the States is that they are not allowed to.

64
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:38,080
Speaker 1: I think it's a concern that those early tabulations will

65
00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:42,080
Speaker 1: somehow get out and that will somehow influence the voting

66
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,000
Speaker 1: that's going to happen on election day. So nearly all

67
00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,240
Speaker 1: states and maybe all states pre have been any counting

68
00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,720
Speaker 1: before election day. There are some some dates allow um

69
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,760
Speaker 1: what's called the processing to begin earlier than that. Tabulating

70
00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,320
Speaker 1: election absentee votes are mail only votes is trickier than

71
00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,520
Speaker 1: regular votes because remember that they come in this outside envelope.

72
00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,960
Speaker 1: So some states do allow, and the call is being

73
00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,160
Speaker 1: made for more states to do this, to at least

74
00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,400
Speaker 1: to begin the process of processing, which is to say,

75
00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 1: checking the signatures on the outside of the envelope to

76
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,480
Speaker 1: match them with signatures on file, uh, so that they

77
00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,719
Speaker 1: can see if it's a velo, opening it up, getting

78
00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,920
Speaker 1: it kind of straightening it out as if you will,

79
00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,920
Speaker 1: and getting it ready to speed into the tabulation machines.

80
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,360
Speaker 1: I mean part of the it's just it's more work

81
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,119
Speaker 1: to process and absently vote. You really do have to

82
00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,440
Speaker 1: check the signature on the outside, open it up, I

83
00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,320
Speaker 1: don't know the mechanics applete that's kind of folded, and

84
00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,120
Speaker 1: get it ready to sign it to the tabulation. And

85
00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,839
Speaker 1: so a number of states do allow that process to

86
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,320
Speaker 1: begin earlier, and the call is being made to allow

87
00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,600
Speaker 1: more states to do that. It even makes a difference

88
00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,279
Speaker 1: when on election day this is allowed. Some states don't

89
00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,760
Speaker 1: allow it to begin until the polls have closed. Others

90
00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,640
Speaker 1: will allow it to start on election day itself, and

91
00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:56,640
Speaker 1: that can make a big difference in terms of when

92
00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,200
Speaker 1: we get a final count. So there's been a home

93
00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,800
Speaker 1: in a number of states either to ease the law

94
00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,960
Speaker 1: on this or to do administratively at least the processing,

95
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,279
Speaker 1: but getting it ready to be counted rather than the

96
00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,359
Speaker 1: actual account rather than the actual account, and to have

97
00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,400
Speaker 1: that all set to go either on election day or

98
00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,200
Speaker 1: on election night, depending on the law of the individual state.

99
00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,679
Speaker 1: So now this brings up a recent case in Pennsylvania,

100
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:29,120
Speaker 1: a swing state obviously, where nine military ballots were discarded.

101
00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,120
Speaker 1: It was announced that seven of those were voting for

102
00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,200
Speaker 1: President Trump, and the officials, the election officials said that

103
00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:41,719
Speaker 1: this was caused by a temporary seasonal independent contractor on

104
00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:47,400
Speaker 1: their first day at work. President Trump knew about the case,

105
00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,640
Speaker 1: talked about the case before it was announced. So this

106
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,040
Speaker 1: brings up questions of well, first ballot secrecy. Yeah, now

107
00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,599
Speaker 1: this clearly was a mistake, but it is interesting how

108
00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,159
Speaker 1: this went straight to the White House, and how the

109
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,760
Speaker 1: White House, who the local U. S. Attorney who made

110
00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,159
Speaker 1: a public statement even though normally they wouldn't do that,

111
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,960
Speaker 1: it would investigate first. Uh. And I think it it

112
00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,800
Speaker 1: just also just underscores, you know, how much work it

113
00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,160
Speaker 1: takes to process the absentee ballots, and you know they

114
00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,440
Speaker 1: need to have a better need to just to be

115
00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 1: fully funded and to have a good system. Um. So

116
00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,320
Speaker 1: you know, I think it it also shows that in fact,

117
00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,240
Speaker 1: it's not clear that people have had absent to your

118
00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,400
Speaker 1: old Democrats. Um. But it sounds like there were actual

119
00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,640
Speaker 1: mistakes that were made also in the on the ballots themselves,

120
00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,160
Speaker 1: and which I don't think anyone is I'm not sure

121
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,120
Speaker 1: anyone has challenged the fact that these ballots were properly

122
00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,680
Speaker 1: discarded and that there were mistakes. Um. But it is

123
00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,480
Speaker 1: interesting that the information went went straight to the justice

124
00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,480
Speaker 1: departments of the White House. Our election officials allowed to

125
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:54,760
Speaker 1: open these ballots before the election and announced oh seven

126
00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,839
Speaker 1: were for President Trump. Uh, I stain not allowed to

127
00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:00,640
Speaker 1: do that. No, I mean where they're not to whether

128
00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,839
Speaker 1: they were allowed to sort of begin the processing, that's

129
00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,040
Speaker 1: a good question. And sometimes, uh, I don't know enough

130
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,720
Speaker 1: about the details. But as I say, sometimes you can

131
00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:10,960
Speaker 1: begin the processing earlier. And I think that I think

132
00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,520
Speaker 1: the leak on who the votes who were from came

133
00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,160
Speaker 1: from the U. S. Attorney, not from the election officials.

134
00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,320
Speaker 1: President John has also said that only the votes that

135
00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:23,520
Speaker 1: are known on election night matter. Why is he saying that, Well,

136
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,760
Speaker 1: part of this I think relates to it is sometimes

137
00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:27,960
Speaker 1: called the blue shift, and this year is being called

138
00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,240
Speaker 1: the Red Mirage. Well, in the past, I don't think

139
00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,840
Speaker 1: it made a big difference between Democrats and Republicans who

140
00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,800
Speaker 1: votes by mail. In recent election cycles, I think you've

141
00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,240
Speaker 1: been seeing a slightly higher percentage of Democrats vote by mail,

142
00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,480
Speaker 1: so that the election night numbers will be a bit

143
00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,880
Speaker 1: more Republican than the total numbers. This has certainly been

144
00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,720
Speaker 1: true nationally because the states that have the heaviest use

145
00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,120
Speaker 1: of mail and ballots on the West Coast, Washington, Oregon, California,

146
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 1: and so you may remember in Hillary Clinton's election night

147
00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,040
Speaker 1: pop a vote margin of about a half a million

148
00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:03,680
Speaker 1: or more grew over time to about two and a

149
00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,760
Speaker 1: half million as more and more votes came in from

150
00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,640
Speaker 1: the West Coast. So the assumption is especially this year

151
00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,960
Speaker 1: with the President's basically telling Republicans not to vote by

152
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,760
Speaker 1: mail that the election night vote in the close states

153
00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,520
Speaker 1: will show a Republican lead, which will be offset over

154
00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,480
Speaker 1: the next couple of days as the mail in votes

155
00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,200
Speaker 1: are taculated. He's basically saying, we should ignore the late votes.

156
00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,640
Speaker 1: We should ignore the mail in votes. Now. An article

157
00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,240
Speaker 1: in the Atlantic said that Republicans in the swing state

158
00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:36,680
Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania have considered how the state legislature could appoint

159
00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,040
Speaker 1: electors of their own choosing in the absence of a

160
00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,680
Speaker 1: clear election night win. At what point does the law

161
00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,000
Speaker 1: give them the authority to do that. It's not clear

162
00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 1: that it would ever be legitimate, though it might be

163
00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,920
Speaker 1: constitutional in that right. Remember, for example, in Bush versus Gore,

164
00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,000
Speaker 1: it took some five weeks to figure out who wants Florida,

165
00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:57,760
Speaker 1: and even then they hadn't really figured it out. With

166
00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,200
Speaker 1: Supreme Court came in and stopped the count. So we

167
00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,240
Speaker 1: have had many elections in which a result was not

168
00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,120
Speaker 1: known on election night or even a week later. Remember

169
00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:09,640
Speaker 1: also that under federal law, military ballots are entitled to

170
00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,520
Speaker 1: be received and counted up until ten days after election day.

171
00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,840
Speaker 1: To actually, under federal law, you really can't have a

172
00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,720
Speaker 1: final result until ten days after election day. UM. Whether

173
00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,080
Speaker 1: or not state legislature you could just step in and

174
00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,280
Speaker 1: declare a winner. UM. A couple of questions come up.

175
00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,840
Speaker 1: One is is that the state legislature alone or what

176
00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,559
Speaker 1: about the governor? I mean, the Pennsylvania has a democratic governor.

177
00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,319
Speaker 1: What if he tried to veto this. It's an unclear

178
00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,200
Speaker 1: question as to where the legislature could do this without

179
00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,439
Speaker 1: passing a law that the government, which that was the governor,

180
00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,160
Speaker 1: to veto. It's also quite possible that you might have

181
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,280
Speaker 1: to competing set of the electors if the votes continue

182
00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,800
Speaker 1: to be counted. Maybe there are legal challenges and those

183
00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,480
Speaker 1: get resolved by this in the state or federal court system.

184
00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,720
Speaker 1: You might actually have one set of electors that get

185
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,000
Speaker 1: certified by the Secretary of State in Pennsylvania and another

186
00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,600
Speaker 1: who were declared by the state legislature. UM. And the governor.

187
00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,440
Speaker 1: The governor approved the Secretary of State certification in stends

188
00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,840
Speaker 1: of that set of electors um to Washington. Under again,

189
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,080
Speaker 1: under the Electoral Countact, the Congress is supposed to accept

190
00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,760
Speaker 1: the governors certification in case there's a dispute. But of

191
00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,040
Speaker 1: course what Congress does will be up to Congress. Uh.

192
00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,760
Speaker 1: And Congress in this case means the two houses stating together.

193
00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,640
Speaker 1: And we might have a Democratic House Representatives and we

194
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,000
Speaker 1: might still have a Republican Senate. So what Congress actually

195
00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,000
Speaker 1: does when states with two competing sets of electors, we

196
00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,120
Speaker 1: don't know. North Carolina is also drawing a lot of

197
00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,800
Speaker 1: attention because two Republican members of the state election board

198
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:43,760
Speaker 1: resigned over a court settlement over mail in voting practices.

199
00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,640
Speaker 1: How unusual is that? And are they resigning just to

200
00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:52,080
Speaker 1: bring attention to this settlement? They may be doing that. Yeah,

201
00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,000
Speaker 1: it's a kind of a protest um. So now North

202
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,360
Speaker 1: Carolina has I think made space insnect made subset to

203
00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:02,719
Speaker 1: make absente voting easier. Uh, And they're obviously protesting it.

204
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,080
Speaker 1: And this could be a set up for some stepsic

205
00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,959
Speaker 1: in action by the North Carolina legislature. I mean, that's

206
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,960
Speaker 1: the kind of The kind of meltdown that we're facing

207
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,479
Speaker 1: here is clothes votes in a number of key states

208
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,520
Speaker 1: where it's possible that you know that's the absentee votes,

209
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,240
Speaker 1: the mail and votes will be the marginal victory for

210
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,600
Speaker 1: the winner. Uh. And you see Republicans, although from the

211
00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,800
Speaker 1: president on down, trying to de legitimate these absentee votes,

212
00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,280
Speaker 1: even though absent votes have always been cast and always

213
00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,920
Speaker 1: been counted. It is true that in many states now

214
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,880
Speaker 1: many more will be test and counted than ever before.

215
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,920
Speaker 1: Probably many more will be cast and not counting because

216
00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,079
Speaker 1: people make mistakes with absentee votes, especially if you've never

217
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,760
Speaker 1: done it before. So I suspect that a lot of

218
00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,880
Speaker 1: challenges to absentee votes that were accepted, and probably be

219
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,160
Speaker 1: a lot of challenges to absolute votes that weren't accepted,

220
00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,080
Speaker 1: because there's just there is a higher error rate with

221
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,319
Speaker 1: absentee votes. There's more as expected of the voter, and

222
00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,720
Speaker 1: particularly that signal sure on the outer envelope, which many

223
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,480
Speaker 1: people find strange given that this is supposed to be

224
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,160
Speaker 1: um a secret vote. Well, that signature is an effect,

225
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,000
Speaker 1: the equivalent of showing your idea or show or signing

226
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,160
Speaker 1: when you come to the polling place, and that outer

227
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,040
Speaker 1: ballot that out are almost supposed to be discarded or

228
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,640
Speaker 1: at least put separately. Um and then your inner the

229
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,280
Speaker 1: inter envelope is not signed, and that's the one that's

230
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,080
Speaker 1: then open to get your votes. Why is there almost

231
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,960
Speaker 1: an assumption that the Supreme Court will have to decide

232
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,839
Speaker 1: this presidential election. The only time they've ever done it

233
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,400
Speaker 1: was in two thousands, and there it all turned on

234
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,280
Speaker 1: kind of a narrow issue in one state. Many people

235
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,760
Speaker 1: were surprised that the Supreme Court took that case. So

236
00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,720
Speaker 1: it's hard to make any predictions at all. Supreme Court

237
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,000
Speaker 1: is not supposed to be the judge of election return.

238
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,400
Speaker 1: It is possible if there will be constitutional issues that

239
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,560
Speaker 1: are raised that will bring the Supreme Court in, and

240
00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:51,800
Speaker 1: also sometimes takes a while to get to the Supreme Court.

241
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,640
Speaker 1: That's really not going to come in immediately. I've been

242
00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 1: reading about that the RNC had been under a consent

243
00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,680
Speaker 1: decree going back to the eighties when Democrats accused it

244
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,480
Speaker 1: of violating the rights of black and Latino voters. So

245
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,559
Speaker 1: now that's consent degree has expired, and the r n

246
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:14,040
Speaker 1: C is apparently making moves to bolster pole watchers and

247
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,080
Speaker 1: also people watching over the counting of ballots. Is that

248
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,760
Speaker 1: going to be allowed? Do Democrats do it? Yeah? That

249
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,400
Speaker 1: there was that respect the nine You're right, and there

250
00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,400
Speaker 1: was a dispute that the Republicans trying to intimidate UM,

251
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,319
Speaker 1: Black and Latino voters. Um, they're depending on the rules

252
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,319
Speaker 1: of the state. I mean, there can there can be

253
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,360
Speaker 1: whole observational the usually at a distance from the poles itself. Uh.

254
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,480
Speaker 1: And yes, typically in the accounting of Alliser County it's

255
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,480
Speaker 1: only in recounts and disputes. Typically there are representatives of

256
00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:50,680
Speaker 1: both parties. Most election boards are designed to be bipartisan. Um.

257
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,240
Speaker 1: I mean the real question is not so much watching

258
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,319
Speaker 1: as to how it happens. Will there be intimidation, will

259
00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:00,320
Speaker 1: there be coercion, will there be force? Um? You know,

260
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,720
Speaker 1: as there there were some efforts along those lines in Florida.

261
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:04,679
Speaker 1: Was that kind of the so called Brooks Brothers riot

262
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:09,960
Speaker 1: when Republicans kind of protested vehemently efforts on the Miami

263
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,000
Speaker 1: date canvassing boards and when they were doing their recounts.

264
00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,959
Speaker 1: It is important that this is being transparent. It is

265
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,760
Speaker 1: also important that people who have actually run the process

266
00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,200
Speaker 1: not be intimidated and that voters not be intimidated. What's

267
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,280
Speaker 1: the most important of the cases that we've talked about,

268
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:29,960
Speaker 1: The big case is really the one that's coming out

269
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,520
Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania, not those nine ballots, but the Pennsylvania Supreme

270
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,600
Speaker 1: Court did something very important for which the Republicans are

271
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,560
Speaker 1: trying to take to the Supreme Court. Democrats asked for

272
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,720
Speaker 1: five ways of liberalizing the state's laws. The state Supreme

273
00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,520
Speaker 1: Court gave them too. One was based on an interpretation

274
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,920
Speaker 1: of the states uh mail in voting law, in which

275
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,800
Speaker 1: the State Supreme Court upheld the decision of the Secretary

276
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,280
Speaker 1: of State of Pennsylvania to allow the counties to have

277
00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,320
Speaker 1: multiple drop multiple places for drop boxes. So when you

278
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,440
Speaker 1: return you your a vote, your mail and vote, you

279
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,640
Speaker 1: can nail it through a postal mail box. But many places,

280
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,800
Speaker 1: although the elected the local elections will set up effectively

281
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,600
Speaker 1: a draw box at place where you can deposit it

282
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:17,480
Speaker 1: directly with the Board of Elections um um. The counties

283
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,040
Speaker 1: want to have those in many places around their jurisdiction.

284
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,320
Speaker 1: The Republicans are arguing that under the law they were

285
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,920
Speaker 1: only allowed to have one for county. There's only at

286
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,200
Speaker 1: the Board of Elections itself, and the state Supreme Court said,

287
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,600
Speaker 1: interpreting the state's own mail vote um quote by mail law,

288
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,720
Speaker 1: which was adopted actually before COVID. So we read that

289
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,960
Speaker 1: law to give the county wars discretion to have multiple

290
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:46,240
Speaker 1: draw boxes. That's being challenged UH as a mistaken interpretation

291
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 1: of state law because it's going to lead to inequality

292
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,920
Speaker 1: across the counties. The other, maybe more important, possibly just

293
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,160
Speaker 1: as important, maybe more so, is the state Supreme Court

294
00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,200
Speaker 1: on its own kind of equity powers, said, we're going

295
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,720
Speaker 1: to extend the deadline for the receipt of mail in

296
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:10,119
Speaker 1: votes from election day until three days later, until that Thursday.

297
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,480
Speaker 1: UM the cause, and they relied heavily on this of

298
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,240
Speaker 1: the statement by the US Postal Service, by the Postmaster

299
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:22,080
Speaker 1: General that delays and in the Postal Services processing things

300
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,720
Speaker 1: processing mail means that it could take up to five days,

301
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,000
Speaker 1: three more days than than before for mail to be returned.

302
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,560
Speaker 1: And they said, consistent with Pennsylvania's law that allows voters

303
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,120
Speaker 1: to request an absentee ballot up to seven days before

304
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,360
Speaker 1: election day. Consistent with that, voters request gating to the

305
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,760
Speaker 1: Board of Elections, the Board of Elections responding, and the

306
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,800
Speaker 1: vote and then the voter sending the ballot back. They

307
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,880
Speaker 1: need to have three more days uh for votes to

308
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,280
Speaker 1: be returned, and now that's being challenged. Both of these

309
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:56,320
Speaker 1: actions are being challenged. The Republicans Pennsylvania have actually asked

310
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,440
Speaker 1: the US have ben quick to hear this because it

311
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:00,920
Speaker 1: was decided by the Pennsylvania's supreme courts. In the next

312
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,560
Speaker 1: highest court would be the US Supreme Court. Supreme Court.

313
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:08,080
Speaker 1: Republicans are challenging both of these as going beyond what

314
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,720
Speaker 1: the legislature of Pennsylvania had authorized and therefore as unconstitutional

315
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,119
Speaker 1: given the power of given what they claim is the

316
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,000
Speaker 1: exclusive powerful legislature to set the rules for federal elections.

317
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,440
Speaker 1: So that's going to be an important taste. If the

318
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,840
Speaker 1: Supreme Court agrees to hear it, or agree or agrees

319
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,120
Speaker 1: to stay the Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision, we will possibly

320
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,480
Speaker 1: know that soon. That's Richards Brafault of Columbia Law School.

321
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,840
Speaker 1: I'm June Grasso. Thanks so much for listening, and please

322
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,080
Speaker 1: tune into The Bloomberg Law Show every week night at

323
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:50,720
Speaker 1: tend m Eastern on Bloomberg Radio. Ye