1 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of You 2 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat and I am 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: the host. Here. Before we get started, this is my 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: friendly quick reminder that although I am a therapist, this 5 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: is not a replacement or a substitute for actual mental 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: health services, although I wouldn't hate if they were a 7 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: help along the way of you getting actual mental health services. 8 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: This week, I am bringing you a conversation that I've 9 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: been wanting to bring you for a very long time, 10 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about autism and specifically one 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: individuals take on being autistic and discovering that diagnosis in 12 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: her forties. Our guest is Lauren Ober and she was 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: all the things. She was fun She was funny, she 14 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: was thought provoking. Her perspective and opinions on things really 15 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: made me stop and think and rework some thoughts on 16 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: some things I had been carrying with me for a 17 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: long time. And she was also really kind. Lauren is 18 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: a podcast host herself, and she's also a producer. She's 19 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: currently the host and executive producer of The Loudest Girl 20 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: in the World. And this is a podcast that you 21 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: can find wherever podcasts can be found and it's a 22 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: show all about Lauren's later in life autism diagnosis. She's 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 1: also the host and executive producer of Fine Guerrilla Person 24 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: and This You can find an audible. It sounds like 25 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: something I really want to listen to. The New Yorker 26 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: wrote that the show is for people who want to 27 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: feel newly furious at all the ways our culture demands 28 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: that monkeys dance for our enjoyment. Before that, she hosted 29 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: and produced Spectacular Failures from a p M Studios. The 30 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: show was one of Time Magazine's Top ten podcast of 31 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: to the nineteen and was named Best Business Podcast and 32 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: New York Festivals Radio Awards, which is a big deal. 33 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: She also created, host It, and produced nprs The Big 34 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: Listen and nationally distributed radio broadcast about podcasts. So I 35 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: think it goes without saying She's done a lot of 36 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: cool things, and I can let you know after talking 37 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,839 Speaker 1: to her, she seems like a pretty cool person and 38 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 1: she offers just a lot of wisdom at the end 39 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: of this conversation. If you want to then learn more 40 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: about her and find her or find her content, consume 41 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,559 Speaker 1: any of her content. You can find her on Instagram 42 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: at at ober and out that's O b e er 43 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: and out, which I thought was like such a clever 44 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: Instagram handle. So yeah, I'm excited for you to hear this. 45 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: I was excited to have this conversation and there's just 46 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: so many good nuggets in there, so I hope you 47 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: enjoy it. Here is my conversation with Lauren Ober. Welcome 48 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,239 Speaker 1: Lauren to You need therapy? How are you? I'm great. 49 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: I'm I'm just thinking like I do actually currently in 50 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 1: my head needed therapy, like at this very precise moment. 51 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: So like, this is a really great time. We all yeah, 52 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: I think we all did. So I want to start 53 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: this off before we get into the juicy things of 54 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: what we're gonna talk about, with a little cliff notes 55 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: version of who you are, where you're from, where you 56 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: are now, what you do for work, and then also 57 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: what you thought you wanted to do when you're younger. 58 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's too many questions for an autistic 59 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: brain to handle, so you're gonna have to go one 60 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: by one, you know. Okay, first, who are you? Where 61 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: you from? Oh? Okay, my name is Lauren Ober. I 62 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: am a journalist and a podcast host, most recently the 63 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: host of the show, The Loudest Girl in the World. 64 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: I also had a show that came out a month 65 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: before that called Fine Guerrilla Person, which is a totally 66 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: different show. I'm from Pittsburgh. Pennsylvania is the only city 67 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: for me. I don't live there though, I live in Washington, 68 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: d C. But I'm a huge pittsburgher um in my 69 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: heart and soul. Do you wish you still lived there? 70 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: Of course every day. I could just pick up and move. 71 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: But you know how things go when you're an adult. 72 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: You buy a house, you have a partner, maybe your 73 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: partner has children in a particular school district. You know 74 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: how it is. Yeah, it's not that easy. Okay, so 75 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: your podcaster producer now, But when you're younger, I love 76 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: this question because sometimes it just ends up being very interesting. Dude, 77 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: was there something that you wanted to do when you're younger? No? 78 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: Uh and no. So so I am not a future 79 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,799 Speaker 1: thinker like I think. I think a lot of autistic 80 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 1: and neurodivigent people are not future thinkers in a way. 81 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: So there are a lot of things that have captured 82 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: my attention over the years, but not a lot of 83 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 1: things where you know, from a young age, I was 84 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: like I'm going to do this thing more, I really 85 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: want to do this thing. It was like, there are 86 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: so many things I would like to do, I I 87 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: can't how can I possibly pick one or just sort 88 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: of not even knowing what jobs are out there. I 89 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: feel like when you're a little kid, you know that 90 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: you could be like a dentist or a zookeeper, you know, 91 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: and that's it. When I was younger, everybody wanted to 92 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: be like a teacher, a nurse, or a marine biology 93 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: And the marine biologist is really interesting because it's like 94 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: they're only like three and exactly. Kids kids who like 95 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: lived in like Idaho were like, I'm gonna be a 96 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: marine biologist. It's like, well, good luck to you. You 97 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: don't even live near the ocean. But yeah, I know, 98 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 1: you know. I think I just had a lot of 99 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: interests as a kid. And even in college, I mean, 100 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: I my major had absolutely nothing to do with journalism 101 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 1: or what I do now was it. I studied Justice 102 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: and Public Affairs, which is basically like a government politics 103 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 1: whatever degree. And I don't know what I thought I 104 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: was going to do, like join the FBI or something. 105 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: And then and I thought I would go to law school. 106 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: And I took the my dad's a lawyer, and I 107 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 1: was like, I guess I could just be a lawyer. Uh. 108 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: And then I went, you know, I took the L 109 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: sets and got in the thirtieth percentile. And my dad 110 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: was like, even idiots can be lawyers, and I was like, well, 111 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: not this idiot. Um, so that was not even a thing. 112 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm making myself sound really great right now. 113 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: So I think this actually is great. This is why 114 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: I love this question, because you find those people who 115 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: like had this passion for something when they were younger, 116 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: and they just like steamrolled into it. And then you 117 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: find people like I didn't really know, and I think 118 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: the the point you made of you don't know what 119 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: jobs are available, Like I didn't know that this was 120 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: a job you could have, and so of course I 121 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: didn't pick it. And when I went to college, I 122 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: went to college to be a nurse. I cannot even 123 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: look at my own blood. So it's just like but 124 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: I didn't know what else to do. And so it's 125 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: like you're a business major, you're a fashion major or 126 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: this major, and I was like, well, I don't want 127 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: to do that, and so I do like the idea 128 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: of like one, I didn't know. Also there's a million 129 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: more things I might still want to do. And two, 130 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: I went to college and got this major and it 131 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: might have been cool or helpful at a time, but like, 132 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: I don't know that it directed the trajectory of my life. Yeah, exactly, exactly. 133 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: And also, you know, I'm a firm belie ever, but 134 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: I'm also quite old that college is not necessarily, you know, 135 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: something that needs to be a direct pipeline into a job. 136 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: It could just be sort of developing you as a 137 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: human or or you know, getting you ready for the 138 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: real world where you have to use critical thinking skills 139 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: and possibly you have to become a better writer and 140 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: all of these things like a pre professional program in college. 141 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: To me is it would not be great for me. 142 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: Although college is very expensive, so people need to know 143 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: that they're gonna make that money back somehow. I don't know. 144 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: It's not my business. Uh, it's not my problem to solve. 145 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: I'm just a personal opinions. So yeah, but I kind 146 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: of fell into journalism, which I love. I fell into 147 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: having a podcast. Well there you go, there you go. Okay, 148 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: So before we get into the later things, I want 149 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: to start with this because I have to get full disclosure. 150 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: So I'm a therapist. I went to school, obviously grad 151 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: school to be a therapist. You have to do that, 152 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: and we learned a lot of things. But one thing 153 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: that I think is a misconception is that if you 154 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: work in mental health or you're a therapist, you just 155 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: like know everything about everything, when really I know, like 156 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: I know a lot about my specific type of clients 157 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: that I work with. I'm work a lot with eating disorders, 158 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: a lot with trauma, addiction, that kind of stuff. Also, 159 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: I went to school ten years ago, so I think 160 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: that has something to do with it. But they teach 161 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: us things that then, uh, what's the right word for this, 162 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 1: like oversimplified, and we miss a lot of nuance. So 163 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: one thing that I liked about you before I met 164 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: you was that you sent me that document of language, 165 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,559 Speaker 1: which was amazing because that's one of those spaces because 166 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: I have this like internal part of me that's like 167 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: I never want to say the wrong thing or or 168 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: use the wrong language. Because it was like hammered into 169 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: us how important language is when we're working with clients, 170 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: and how not to use these kinds of labels and 171 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 1: use person first. Language, and so that's in my head 172 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: and so I'm always I'm using that across the board. 173 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: But you gave me this document that, like I'm not kidding, 174 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 1: I read it like ten times because I was like, 175 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: I have to remember this, I have to remember this, 176 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: I have to remember this. But then you've also said, 177 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: and I know you're a talker, I'm also a talker 178 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,959 Speaker 1: since will be really interesting. But you also said it's 179 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: okay to get it wrong, but it's not okay not 180 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: to try to get it right something along those lines, 181 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: which thank you, because that like brings my anxiety down 182 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: a little bit. So I want you to talk before 183 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: we get into this conversation about language when it comes 184 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: to autism, because I feel like there's so many different 185 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: ways to say something similar, but they are all the 186 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: same to everybody, if that makes sense. Sure. I mean 187 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: in the same way that you qualified that you know 188 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: you're a therapist, but your expertise and interest is in 189 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: X area, and there are a million areas that you 190 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 1: could have gone in, Like there's no realm in which 191 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: you would know everything having to do with mental health, 192 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: and why should you you know? I know my corner 193 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: of autism, which is me um, and I can tell 194 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: you history, and I can tell you, you you know, where 195 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: things sort of stand right now, but I can only 196 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: really definitively talk about my own experience and what I 197 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: know to be true about me. But also, you know, 198 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: in this sort of wider autism community, and I say 199 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: that in quotes, what is sort of in the ether? 200 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: What is the sort of zeitgeist within that particular community. 201 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: But within that there could be a million possibilities of 202 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,079 Speaker 1: either could be a million interpretations or people want to 203 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: be called X or you know, I'm I'm gay. I'm 204 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: part of the big broad you know, rainbow, l g B, 205 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 1: t Q plus community. And I think that within that, 206 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: you know, for a lot of people, language is really important, 207 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: but there are a lot of people for whom it isn't, 208 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: and it's easiest just to ask and be curious. I think. 209 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: So I put together a little language guide for folks 210 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: because I knew would be talking about the show a lot. 211 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: And I think that it serves two purposes. One, it 212 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: makes an interviewer feel more comfortable and confident in the 213 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: language that they're using. And it also makes me feel 214 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: like I don't have to explain myself a million times. 215 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,199 Speaker 1: I'm doing this in a professional capacity, but when you're 216 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: a person in the world, you can't sort of just 217 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: like hand out a like a cheat sheet for everybody. 218 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: But you know, look, I I'm forty four. I don't 219 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: get fussed like I get mis gendered. I get, you know, misidentified. 220 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: I get you know, people saying that like, oh, I 221 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: can't say the word lesbian. I'm like, I don't care. 222 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: I'm lesbian, I'm gay. I'm a queer person. Like call 223 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: me what, it doesn't really matter to me because I'm not. 224 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,959 Speaker 1: I'm I'm I am attached to my identity and as 225 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: much as it's sort of individually shapes who I am. 226 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: Like but you know, out in the world like I can't, 227 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: I can't what what is the what is the phrase? Uh, 228 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: somebody else's opinion of me is no business of mine, 229 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: you know. I kind of take that tack like I 230 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: can't do anything about it. If you're if you feel 231 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: a certain way or you says a certain thing, it's like, 232 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: who cares? But that's me, that's me, and for for 233 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: a lot of other people, particularly younger folks, I think 234 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: language is really really important. But I think across the 235 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: board you know, within the autism community, identity first language 236 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: is very important because like it's just sort of who 237 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: you are. It's not like, uh, let's see, okay. I 238 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't say that I'm a person with homosexuality. I just 239 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: say I'm a gay person. So I'm an autistic person. 240 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 1: I'm a gay person. You know, I'm a I'm a 241 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 1: ginger haired person. It's just like it's it's baked in 242 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: the essence of the person. Yeah. Well, and I like 243 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: what you also said too in that document of if 244 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: you meet one autistic person, you've met one autistic person, 245 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: and you can't just like generalize that to everybody. I 246 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: think that probably speaks to so many different things like 247 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: you're saying. And I think it's also important because I 248 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 1: have this real in my head and I don't know 249 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: what other people have in their head, but I know 250 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: people that went to my program have a reel in 251 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: my head. And I would have never been like, Lauren 252 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: is autistic. I never would say that. I would be like, oh, 253 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, like if I that came out, and like, 254 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: the thing is that's what you prefer. So I think 255 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: it's just what I'm getting from you is one everybody's 256 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: different and what they prefer and what somebody else is 257 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: prefer And also it's okay to ask people. I think 258 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: people are afraid to ask what feels right or good 259 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: to you, and there's room to mess up. Yeah, I 260 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: think that the world needs more grace around a lot 261 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: of things. But I also understand that if you're in 262 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 1: a marginalized community of any kind and and you are 263 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: identified in a way that does not feel right or 264 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: or or correct for you, that that can be a 265 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: huge slid. It can be diminishing, can be dehumanizing in 266 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: a lot of ways. You know. I think that at 267 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: least in sort of neurodivergent autistic circles, identity first language 268 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: is very important because it's not pathologizing. It's not saying, 269 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: like a person with autism, like what is autism? It's 270 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: really it's really because it's complicated, it's like my brain 271 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: functions in a particular way. But it's not necessarily a pathology. 272 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: It's not a disease for a lot of I mean, 273 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: it is technically a disability, is a developmental disability. And 274 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: for a lot of people, they identify, you know, a 275 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: lot of autistic people identify as disabled. I think that's 276 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: for every person to decide. But it's a condition more 277 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: than anything, um and it's just a difference. I mean, 278 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: like I think it's a lot. It falls in the 279 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: same line. It's like your dyslexic person. But that just 280 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: like is it's just one part of you and you 281 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: can own that. But it's not like the sum total 282 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: of of who you are unless you want it to be, 283 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: and then it is. I mean, look, identity is really thorny, 284 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: isn't it, And so it's in it's very individual and 285 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: I feel a particular way, and I can't speak for 286 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: anybody else except I do know that, you know, sort 287 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: of within the community were at large identity first language 288 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: really matters. Well, thank you for that, and thank you 289 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: for making that guide. As much as it like gave 290 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: me anxiety, it also combined anxiety at the same time 291 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: having sent a sense, Yeah, this is gonna be a 292 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: long winded question and I'm gonna let you like run 293 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: with it, take some wings with it as much time. 294 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: But I want you in your own way, start from 295 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: wherever you want. But what led you to start this 296 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: new podcast that you have loudest girl in the world, 297 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: I will say I listened to the the trailer and 298 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: then I started listening to the first episode, and then 299 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: I stopped myself because I was like, I don't want 300 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: to know any of this yet, because they didn't know 301 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: if it was going to be something something that we 302 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: would talk about. So I want you to just like 303 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: tell me, tell us about, like what even brought upon 304 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: this new podcast that you have. I've been a journalist 305 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: for twenty years. I've been a podcast host for seven 306 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: years or so. I've worked in audio, worked in public 307 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: radio for ten years. And you know, I always tell 308 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: other people's stories. And that's great. That's what you do 309 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: your journalists. That's you know, if if I didn't want 310 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: to tell other people's stories, I could just like write 311 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: in a diary, um, and I could tell my own 312 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: story to myself, or I could have a TikTok or 313 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: something that's not for me. Um. And so I've always 314 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: been very interested in other people's stories. And then, you know, 315 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: I think in the pandemic a lot of things for 316 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: me became clear about sort of how I moved through 317 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: the world, particular struggles that I had mental health issues 318 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: and they and they sort of when you're not going 319 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: through a global crisis, or at least for me. You know, 320 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: when all of your supports are in place, then you 321 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: are able to sort of push whatever bad feelings are 322 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: to the background. That's been my experience. It's like I 323 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: can move through the world like I got my routine down, 324 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 1: like my job set, like I'm doing this, I'm doing that, 325 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: and there might be like a little hic up here 326 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: and there. But for me that the pandemic really sort 327 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: of like broke a lot of things open in me 328 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: um Is, as it did for a lot of people. 329 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: I mean, people quit their jobs, people left their spouses. 330 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: You know, people sort of were like, I'm actually meant 331 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 1: to be a concert pianist, not like a plumber. I 332 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean I think I think it changed 333 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: a lot for people. So for me, you know, because 334 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: I had always documented other people's stories, I sort of thought, well, 335 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: I should document my own questioning, my own thoughts around this. 336 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: I didn't think, like, oh, I'm gonna turn this into 337 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: a podcast. It's just a reflex. I mean, it's what 338 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: we and you know, and people who make audio stories 339 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 1: sort of what we do. Like my phone is filled 340 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: with recordings of nothing because we just record things. That's 341 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: what we do. And so, you know, at some point 342 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: I saw out a diagnosis because you know, I was 343 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: putting all the pieces together, and the pieces, you know, 344 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: in the full picture looked like autism neurodivergence, and for me, 345 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: it was important to sort of get that validated. But 346 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 1: also then I felt like if I didn't make a 347 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 1: project out of it, I would never sort of engage 348 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: with it. And I also thought, look, there's nothing out 349 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: there in my medium that really speaks to what I'm 350 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 1: going through, what I'm interested in learning about UM, and 351 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: so I figured I would just make it. I guess, 352 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: you know, I think there are a lot of really 353 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 1: great resources out there UM in sort of book form, 354 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: and I've I've read them all. Uh and but I 355 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 1: wanted to hear sort of a first person account that 356 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: that spoke to me and didn't really exist. And yeah, 357 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 1: so I just made it and stupidly made it. Because 358 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: doing work about yourself is terrible. It's the worst thing ever. 359 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: I would never recommend it. I don't know, why do 360 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: you say that who wants to who wants to interrogate themselves? 361 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: Like to make themselves their job? I mean I say 362 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: that knowing that, like, you know that the vast majority 363 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: of like teenagers want to be TikTok stars. You know, 364 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: I find it very uncomfortable. It's not my certain native, 365 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 1: my native place to be. People to me who make 366 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: who write more than one memoir, I'm like, so you 367 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: didn't get enough of of how terrible it was like 368 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: the first time. It's like people who run multiple marathons. 369 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, one marathon wasn't enough for you, Like you 370 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: have to go back from war. That's crazy to me. 371 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable recording conversations 372 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: with your loved ones. It's uncomfortable talking to people about 373 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 1: things that you don't really know much about yourself. It's 374 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: probably more uncomfortable for the producers who worked on the 375 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 1: show to have to go through like a hundred hours 376 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: of tape of like me talking to different people, or 377 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: like me being stupid or whatever. Uh So, but yeah, 378 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: I mean you know that. And like the short answer 379 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: to your question, after I gave you a very long answer, 380 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: is that, like I kind of just felt compelled. I 381 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: felt like it was a necessary thing in the way 382 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,239 Speaker 1: that I felt compelled to seek a diagnosis. I just 383 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: it felt like I was not in control of the situation. 384 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: It was more just forces walk me through that part, 385 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: because that part's super interesting to me, and I think 386 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: you have a really I'm going to use the word cool. 387 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: I don't know if that fits for you, but your 388 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: story is cool to me, as you're saying, like the 389 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: pandemic kind of like took all of these blinders off 390 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: in a way where I could no longer ignore what 391 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 1: I might have been ignoring, and so then I sought 392 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: a diagnosis. So I'm really interesting and like, what brought 393 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: you to that point of Okay, I need to seek 394 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: a diagnosis, especially because you were in your forties when 395 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: this happened, Like it wasn't like you were sixteen. It 396 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: was like you've been living with these things your whole life, right, 397 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:15,959 Speaker 1: I mean, I think you know, it didn't pop out 398 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: of nowhere because I've been in therapy for fifteen years, 399 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 1: so there's a lot of work that's been done. You know, 400 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: I have a very solid therapeutic foundation and I've had 401 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: I've worked with great therapists over the years, and so 402 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: we've teased out a lot of challenges that I've had 403 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: and sort of you know, really trying to unpack why 404 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: things felt like they were harder than they should have been, Like, 405 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: why do I feel so much friction between me and 406 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: the world and what is that about? And I think that, 407 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: you know, I grew up in the eighties. That was 408 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 1: not a time when kids were recognized as having differences 409 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: really at all, and certainly not you know, girls, because 410 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: girls are great at twisting themselves into just the right 411 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: shape to fit in. I mean, you're sort of, you know, 412 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: folding yourself into a little or gamy craine in order 413 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: to like float through the world with with a few problems. 414 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: And you know, girls historically have done a really great 415 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: job at what we call masking or hiding or camouflaging 416 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: and in plain sight their challenges, their social challenges, um, 417 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: their communication challenges, you know, sensory issues, what have you, 418 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: and so like there's no world in which in the 419 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: eighties I would have been flagged as anything other than 420 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: an unruly kid in a classroom. But because of that, 421 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 1: I think it that, you know, we were so shaped 422 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: by those years. And I was always in trouble. I 423 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: was always in trouble for talking. I was always out 424 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: in the hall, you know, I would be sitting out 425 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 1: in the hall feeling a great amount of shame when 426 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: a teacher would walk by, or my classroom, my desk 427 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: was often out in the hall. I don't know how 428 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: you learn that way, but um, you know. And and 429 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: then my desk was next to the teachers, My desk 430 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: was next my desk was at the back of the classroom. 431 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 1: My desk was at the back of the classroom with 432 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: a cardboard partition around it, so I couldn't see any 433 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: of my classmates. And so all of those things sort 434 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 1: of lead you to a point where you say to yourself, 435 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: like I'm actually bad, Like it's me, I'm bad, I'm 436 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: a bad kid, I'm this, I'm that. And you tell 437 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: yourself these stories, right, and we all tell ourselves stories 438 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: about you know, ourselves that are not true. I like 439 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 1: the idea of like, you know, feelings aren't facts. You 440 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 1: feel bad, but it's not a fact that you're bad. 441 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: But it's really hard to distinguish that when you're when 442 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: you're in your teenage years, when you're in your early adulthood, 443 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: and these things get, you know, to get set in 444 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: your mind. You know, your self image, you gets set 445 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 1: in your mind, and so I think for me, you know, 446 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: having a lot of sort of social difficulties or communication difficulties, 447 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: whereas I could not stop talking, you know, it just 448 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 1: made me think like I'm defect top, like there's something 449 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: wrong with me, and I think that needing feeling a 450 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: need to get a diagnosis, which obviously I talked about 451 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: with my therapist, like for a couple of years, even 452 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,199 Speaker 1: before I got a diagnosis. To me, it just felt 453 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 1: like having a word allowed me to have a greater 454 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 1: understanding of who I am and how my brain works. 455 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: And I don't necessarily need to use that word for 456 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: the rest of my life. I'm not ashamed of it, 457 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: but I it's more so that you understand that this 458 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: is not because you're deficient or you're bad or whatever. 459 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: It's because your brain functions in X way, and a 460 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: lot of people's brains function why way and they're just 461 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: a little bit different and that's okay. And then it 462 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: allows me as an adult to advocate for myself, to 463 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: tell people what I need, and also then to hold 464 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 1: myself accountable and understand like if I'm feeling very high 465 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 1: emotions about a thing and and somebody else is involved, 466 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 1: I can then say Okay, I'm feeling X way, like 467 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: I'm feeling this way, I'm feeling triggered, I'm feeling very emotional, 468 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,239 Speaker 1: or I'm feeling whatever, And I don't have to make 469 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: it their problem. And I think it's a it's a 470 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: real like two way street there. But yeah, I mean, 471 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: no one has to get a diagnosis, you know, for 472 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 1: anything that's not going to kill them, um, you know. 473 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: But it was important to me. And there are a 474 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: lot of people who have self identified as autistic and 475 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: that's perfectly fine too, because as I know in the show, 476 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: it's very hard to get a diagnosis that doesn't cost 477 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 1: you a bajillion dollars. Oh yeah, well, as you are speaking, actually, 478 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: I love that you brought up that, like I would 479 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 1: get in trouble a lot and was kind of put 480 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: in this category as a disruptive or bad kid, because 481 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: you're saying that, and I was like, well, that's kind 482 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: of a little bit out of how I I felt 483 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: growing up. I didn't know because they don't teach it 484 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: in school. I didn't know what anxiety was. I didn't 485 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: know what like we didn't know what like a d 486 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: h D was or a d D back then or 487 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: any we didn't we knew those were things, but they 488 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: also were like they to me, they had the stigma 489 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: of like that's the like wild kid, or that's the whatever, 490 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: and so growing up I experienced a lot of feelings 491 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: and things. But what you said is like women are 492 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 1: really good at folding themselves into this thing. And so 493 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: I think that's a lot of what I did. Of 494 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: like it was really really really really really hard for 495 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: me to do certain things, but I did them, and 496 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: I always would have this thought of like why is 497 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,199 Speaker 1: this so hard? Like why is it so hard for 498 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: me to sit down and study for my I couldn't 499 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: pull it all night if my life depended on it, 500 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: Like I could never do it. But in college everybody 501 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 1: was doing that, and well, yeah, nobody ever really study. 502 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: Was like I was like, if you have to pull 503 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: an all night, or you have very poor time management, right, 504 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: that's one thing. But like I think that my head 505 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: went to like, well, I can sit down and and 506 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: maybe read for like thirty minutes or study for thirty minutes, 507 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: but then like I start like daydreaming and I have 508 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: to read the same page a hundred times, and but 509 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: I made good grades and so that meant something to 510 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: the world that I was fine. Even though I would 511 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: take this test, I would forget everything that I just learned. 512 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: Like that's part of the reason. I'm like, I had 513 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: to read that document you sent me like twenty times 514 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: because I was like, Okay, I gotta how do I 515 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: get this to go somewhere in here and stay. Yeah, 516 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: I think I started to get like an idea kind 517 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: of probably like what you said. I didn't really know 518 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: that that's something that I would have because I'm like, 519 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 1: surely somebody would have caught that, and like, I don't 520 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,120 Speaker 1: have I can sit down in my chair even though 521 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,959 Speaker 1: like I'm switching my position every five minutes, and like, 522 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: because who do you think? Because who do you think? 523 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: All the research was done on it? Boys, I mean, 524 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 1: you know, and I should not. I'm sorry to interrupt you, 525 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: but you know, there's the crossover of a D H 526 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: D and autism is very high. I mean, the then 527 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: diagram is practically one circle, and so I mean really 528 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: like I think that they're they're category categorize things. We 529 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: need to have a taxonomy for things. However, I don't 530 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: know that it's necessarily helpful because really it's just like 531 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 1: people whose brains work differently and they need certain accommodations 532 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: and because their brains work differently, their bodies work differently 533 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: or whatever. Um And so you know, to me, it's 534 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,479 Speaker 1: almost like a a what is they call it? Uh, 535 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: you know, distinction without a difference kind of thing to me. 536 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: I mean, how many emails have I gotten from people 537 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: already being like, you know you have a d h D, 538 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: don't you? You know? After the show came out and 539 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: I was like, thank you, are you a doctor? But 540 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: also who cares? Like it's more about just sort of 541 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: understanding how you work, unless about having a word, like 542 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: having that power, yes to having the power to understand it. 543 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: Because my experience was I went to a psychiatrist to 544 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: talk about anxiety, but I also didn't know what anxiety 545 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: was until I really went to school. And then I 546 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: was like, wait a second, other people's brains don't do this. 547 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: And then I went to talk to about anxiety and 548 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: so should we talked and it was like an intake, 549 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: so it's pretty long. And then she was like, you 550 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: have anxiety, but from my perspective, a lot of your 551 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: anxiety is exacerbated by the fact that you might have 552 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,959 Speaker 1: a d h D and I felt very dumb too, 553 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: Like I'm like I said, I made good grades, but 554 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: like I wouldn't be able to remember anything. And as 555 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: a therapist, let me tell you, you've got to remember 556 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: a lot of things. I know. It always blows my mind. 557 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, how did you all remember all of that stuff? 558 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: Like you remember like literally what my dog's name was 559 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: like from four dogs ago. Yes, so, but I always 560 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: had to do was take notes in session, and that 561 00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: was kind of some people like, oh, you write during 562 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: session And I'm like yes, because I'm sitting there for 563 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: an hour listening to somebody intently. There's things that I'm 564 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: gonna need to remember. But the psychiatrist like, yeah, I 565 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: don't know that you're like dumber or really that you 566 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: can't retain information. I think sometimes you might forget where 567 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: you put it in your brain, and that's kind and 568 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: then you have anxiety about that and then so that's 569 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: a long winded way for me to say, like, yeah, 570 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: I think a lot of times people are trying to 571 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: fit in to a world in a system like learning systems, 572 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: like I can learn something by doing it really well. 573 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: If I'm just reading a book a self help book 574 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: or like what a book on trauma? Yeah, I might 575 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: pick up some things, but how I learn is by 576 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: like then taking that information and going and practicing it. 577 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: And that's really helpful for me. But when we were 578 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: growing up, teachers weren't like, Okay, what kind of learners 579 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: are you? They're like, sit down and let's put this 580 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: projector on and we're gonna just whatever. So I like 581 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: the almost it's it's permission to re establish or go 582 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,719 Speaker 1: back and look at like, yeah, you survived the world, 583 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: but maybe you don't have to feel like you're keep 584 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: you keep surviving in a world that might need some 585 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: adjusting to you individually. Yeah, of course, I mean I 586 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: think that you know, I see it both ways. I've 587 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: never been a teacher, but I know it's a hard 588 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: as hell job. However, I think that schools would do 589 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: well to understand that there are different ways that you 590 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: can learn. I mean, I'm not an auditory learner. I'm 591 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: a visual learner. And so if you were to tell 592 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: this always happened to me in yoga class, Like when 593 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: I took yoga's like I can't understand what the teacher 594 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: is saying, where to put this, Where to put that, 595 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: but if I watch the teacher do it. So I 596 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: always had to sit in the part of the classroom 597 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: where I could watch the teacher. I was an athlete 598 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: in college in high school, and so I was great. 599 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: Like if I saw the coach do something or demonstrate it, 600 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: I could do it. But if they tell you, you know, 601 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,239 Speaker 1: put your hand he or do it like this, I 602 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,959 Speaker 1: you know, and I can't. But you know, that was 603 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: never identified. None of these things are identified. And it's 604 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: not that everybody needs to be tested. I don't think 605 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: it's the layer needs to be an understanding that Okay, 606 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: like you know, this person learns like this, and this 607 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: person learns like this, and all of those are valid 608 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: ways of learning. But I also know that, you know, 609 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: within a public school system that is strapped for resources 610 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: in cash, that that is unlikely to be the case. 611 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure it's much more now, you know, and I've 612 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: been in more you know, contemporary classrooms. You definitely see 613 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: that there's a sort of like a broader spectrum that 614 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: is that is accommodated, but it's certainly not everybody and 615 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: that and that's really hard because what are you supposed 616 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: to do if you're not a traditional learner, How can 617 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: you thrive? You know, I was the same way as 618 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: you mentioned. You you were as like I did fine 619 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: in school, but then everything kind of blew up when 620 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: I got into middle school and you really had to 621 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: sort of manage your time in a different way, and 622 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: you had to get from class to class, and you 623 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: had to remember your books and remember your you know, 624 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: locker combination and like my executive functioning, which is like 625 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: in the toilet. And then my parents, you know, recognized 626 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: that I was really struggling, I think, and would have 627 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: would do much better in a smaller environment. So they 628 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: sent me to a much smaller school and I did 629 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,479 Speaker 1: great there, and you know, and it wasn't because they 630 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: were necessarily like let's like learn about you. You know. 631 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: It was like actually, we're just we're just like being 632 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: humane and being like okay, like this is a good 633 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: project for you, all right, you do that project. You 634 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: want to do this thing, Okay, go to this thing. 635 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: You don't want to sit in a row. You don't 636 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: have to you you don't want to have to like 637 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: ask to get a pass to go the bathroom because 638 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: it's embarrassing. But nobody needs us for a past to 639 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: go to the bathroom. Just go, like, we trust you. 640 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: You can't do that in a giant school where kids 641 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 1: kids may or may not light the bathroom on fire, 642 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: you know, right right, exactly? All right. So I have 643 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: a couple just they're not simple, but I just have 644 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: a couple of questions I kind of want to just 645 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: like run through and get your idea on some of these. 646 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: So one of them is I kind of want to 647 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,399 Speaker 1: split this up until like you personally and then like 648 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: if there is a broader way to answer this of 649 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 1: in what ways do you feel like you throughout your 650 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 1: life and even now are misunderstood by your close community 651 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: and just the broader public. So my partner has a 652 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: nineteen year old child who is autistic, and this kid 653 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: will correct you if you say just the tiniest thing wrong, 654 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 1: and I find it to be so irritating, and I'm like, 655 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: what's wrong with this kid? Like stop correcting me. Then 656 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: I toggle back to my youth, uh, And I toggle 657 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 1: back to three days ago, you know, where I do 658 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: the same exact thing and it's not there. There's this 659 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: weird like I think in my brain and perhaps in 660 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: other autistic brains, like a need to have correct information, 661 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: And so you're not being an asshole. You're like, I'm 662 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: being helpful, I'm correcting the record. I'm I'm letting everyone 663 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 1: know that this is actually the thing. But for most people, 664 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: people think about like shut up, like who can't Like 665 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: why do you have to be right all the time? 666 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 1: I mean, that was one of the biggest things that 667 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: my parents would say to me. It's like why do 668 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: you have to be right all the time? Like, you know, 669 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,839 Speaker 1: like why you used to know it all? You know, 670 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: and like your way isn't the best way. And I'd 671 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 1: be like and then I'd be real black and white 672 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: about it, like no, but this is correct, you know, 673 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 1: And I would fight endlessly and I will still do that. 674 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: I will fight my corner because I'm like no, like 675 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: in you know, from from a practical perspective or an 676 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,919 Speaker 1: accounting perspective or a you know whatever, I'm a black 677 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: and wait thinker more so than I'm an abstract thinker. 678 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: And and so you get into this sort of tunnel 679 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: vision and that's just how your brain works. And you're 680 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: not being an asshole. You want information to be correct 681 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: because if information isn't correct, then the whole world is confusing, 682 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,880 Speaker 1: So I guess that would be a sort of like 683 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: a misunderstanding also that you know, I am loud and 684 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,839 Speaker 1: obnoxious because I am choosing to be obnoxious, like I'm 685 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: trying to get attention or in this orm that it's like, 686 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: first of all, I can barely even I can't hear 687 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: how loudly I'm speaking, like I have no idea, and 688 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: so you know, my my partner often it's like like 689 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 1: and and sort of pats her hand out like lower 690 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: the volume, you know, and I'm like, oh my god, 691 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: I had no idea that I was basically shouting um. 692 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: And so it isn't again like it's not like being obnoxious. 693 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: It's like, oh, I just had no idea. I had 694 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 1: no idea. That's important and good to say of like, yeah, 695 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 1: when people see somebody who is louder volume wise, or 696 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: how has a bigger personality, or just in general, there 697 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: is a lot of times that like they're just trying 698 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: to get attention, which like from a therapist perspective, I 699 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 1: have a problem with that statement in general, or like 700 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: they're doing yeah, they're doing this on purpose, like to 701 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,479 Speaker 1: hear you say like I have no idea until somebody 702 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: lets me know. And when somebody lets me know, I'm like, okay, 703 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 1: Like that's an okay thing to do. So yeah, thanks 704 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 1: for both of those are yeah. The I mean it's 705 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: it's okay to correct if it's nice, if it's not. 706 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: Like it's not like I remember, sitting next to I 707 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,320 Speaker 1: have a very loud laugh. That is not something I 708 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,319 Speaker 1: can control. Like, I know it's loud, I can't tell 709 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: anything about it. I find a lot of things funny. 710 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: I love laughing. I'm I'm a generally sort of joyful 711 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: per son. And you know, I remember I went to 712 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: see a musical in New York City, and you know, 713 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,239 Speaker 1: I'm sitting next to this man and every time I 714 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: would laugh, he grabbed his ear and like bend it 715 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: away from me, you know, And I'm like, I felt bad, 716 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: but also don't be a jerk. You know. I don't 717 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 1: know what he was supposed to do in that situation. 718 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,359 Speaker 1: But asking somebody like, hey, do you do you think 719 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,359 Speaker 1: you could like turn the volume down a little bit, 720 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind, because I know I'm loud. But not 721 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: everybody feels comfortable or knows how to do knows how 722 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: to issue a corrective in a kind way. Yeah, that's 723 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 1: a little bit passive aggressive, that like exaggerated, like grabbing 724 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: your ear. Yeah yeah it was. I mean, look whatever, 725 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 1: it's a stranger. I'll never see him again. This is 726 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 1: kind of along the same lines, but in your opinion. 727 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: So this is your opinion, doesn't have to be factual. 728 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:02,280 Speaker 1: What are the main misconceptions that you hear or see 729 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: around autism in general? I think the biggest one is 730 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: the autistic people have no empathy. It's actually the complete opposite. 731 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:15,959 Speaker 1: Autistic people are flooded with empathy, are flooded with emotions. 732 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: Autistic people are able to read other people's emotions, often 733 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,919 Speaker 1: in in sort of group settings, like very very well. 734 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:31,880 Speaker 1: The challenge is that then people are overloaded with emotion, 735 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: and then they become unable to manage the emotion that 736 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 1: they've just taken in. Right, So moving through the world 737 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: with an autistic brain is like walking through through the 738 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,799 Speaker 1: world with your first layer of skin removed. Your extremely sensitive, 739 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:57,399 Speaker 1: it's extremely sensitive to criticism, to sensory things, to other 740 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: people's feelings and emotions, and and that often paralyzes you. 741 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,760 Speaker 1: And so it isn't a lack of emotion, It isn't 742 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: a lack of empathy. It's actually a surplus. M hm. 743 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,439 Speaker 1: Oh that's good to know. Yeah, I had actually would 744 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 1: have thought the opposite, right, And I think, I think, 745 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: and and the reason why is because autism is a 746 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 1: communication challenge and it's a social challenge, and so you 747 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: aren't actually able to express the feeling that you're having. 748 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:38,360 Speaker 1: And oftentimes then like your bucket fills up way faster 749 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,919 Speaker 1: than other people, but you don't know how to discharge that, 750 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: or you don't have the tools to discharge that, or 751 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,480 Speaker 1: it just doesn't work to try to sort of unload 752 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: some of that emotion, and people have meltdowns or you know, 753 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 1: shutdowns or or whatever. We're just like everything is too much. 754 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: Like you just your bucket fills up. It's worrying over 755 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,240 Speaker 1: like and you can get their way faster than other people. 756 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: I mean, for me, like I'm I'm, I have a 757 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 1: real sensitivity towards animals and I can cry on the 758 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 1: spot if I see an animal being mistreated. My partner 759 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 1: and I were in Savannah and I can't stand like 760 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: the Central Park horses or whatever, like those carrot drives 761 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: can't stand. It breaks my heart into a thousand pieces. 762 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 1: And I saw one and I just started, I just 763 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 1: burst into tears, and it's like a full sort of 764 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: body meltdown. And it's not something that you can control 765 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: because it's like just the sort of experience of of 766 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:44,800 Speaker 1: something upsetting is so much greater. Like you have emotional disregulation, 767 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 1: so some things, you know, people might think, oh, you 768 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: should have some emotion around this, and you don't have any, 769 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 1: and other people think, oh, you have too much emotion 770 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,319 Speaker 1: over there, you know, like I don't know what I mean. 771 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 1: My sort of comparison there fell flat because because I 772 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 1: lost my own threat. But but really it's like it's 773 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: like it's not neurotypical people view autistic people is like 774 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 1: having too much or too little emotion, when really it's 775 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:14,359 Speaker 1: just sort of a regulation issue. Yeah, well an expression too. 776 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,799 Speaker 1: I think that. Yeah, like it's there, but maybe there's 777 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,800 Speaker 1: not a way for everybody to be able to communicate 778 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 1: it the way somebody else might expect you to. So 779 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,319 Speaker 1: that means it must not be there, or it must 780 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,399 Speaker 1: be whatever. We make up our own assumptions about that. 781 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,439 Speaker 1: Your explanation made me think of this TikTok video I 782 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 1: was watching, and I can't recount the video because I 783 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,080 Speaker 1: understand the point of it. But I don't remember the 784 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 1: example they gave, but it was from one of the 785 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,759 Speaker 1: cast members of the show Love on the Spectrum. What 786 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:43,840 Speaker 1: do you think about that show? I mean, that's a 787 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 1: real third rail, I think, because I think the sort 788 00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: of prevailing belief in some neurodivergent circles is you know 789 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:02,960 Speaker 1: nothing about us without us, meaning don't don't have neurotypical 790 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:10,040 Speaker 1: people making media about neuro divergent people um in the 791 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: same way that you know, Look, Brendan Fraser is in 792 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: a movie called The Whale and he plays the six 793 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 1: hunder pound gay man, and there are a lot of 794 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:22,360 Speaker 1: like fat gay actors who are like, excuse me, I 795 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't have had to wear a fat suit. Why didn't 796 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 1: you hire me? Like that is actually my experience. Why 797 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 1: are you making a thing sort of about somebody like 798 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,919 Speaker 1: me without me? And I think we see that sort 799 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 1: of in more and more in media. But you know, 800 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:40,760 Speaker 1: so something like Love on the Spectrum is like, okay, 801 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: a my this is only my opinion. At its heart, 802 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: the show feels sort of kind and generous because really, 803 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,960 Speaker 1: I think what it's trying to do is allow people 804 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 1: a vehicle to connect to otherwise would have had a 805 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,360 Speaker 1: challenge connect ding. But I think that the difficulty is 806 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,719 Speaker 1: that it puts it on display for other people to 807 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 1: consume and entertainment, entertainment, and it allows people to continue 808 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 1: to other autistic people and say, well, it could be infantalizing, 809 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,719 Speaker 1: and it could allow people to put distance between themselves 810 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 1: and people with any kind of developmental disability. I think 811 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:33,400 Speaker 1: if if people want connection with somebody else, romantic or otherwise, 812 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,400 Speaker 1: and don't know how to get that connection, it's really 813 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:42,960 Speaker 1: great to have resources to help do that. Should it 814 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,080 Speaker 1: necessarily be filmed for Netflix? I don't know. I mean 815 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 1: I think, like everybody, everybody consented to it, So yeah. 816 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,480 Speaker 1: I refused to watch it for a while because I 817 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,239 Speaker 1: was like, that's I didn't understand the premise of it either. 818 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,480 Speaker 1: I just like sell the title, but I was like, 819 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,000 Speaker 1: that doesn't doesn't seem right. Then I ended up watching it, 820 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,720 Speaker 1: and my perspective was, I don't know if it should 821 00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,200 Speaker 1: be for entertainment. I got I got a lot of 822 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 1: information from it. Was it entertaining too? Yes? And I 823 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,319 Speaker 1: think that's the part where it like it feels both 824 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: of those things, and so that feels like wrong. There 825 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:19,919 Speaker 1: was a lot of education in it, and it did 826 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 1: offer a lot of like perspective that a lot of 827 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,120 Speaker 1: people wouldn't have known. And at the same time, what 828 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,680 Speaker 1: you said is that it's continuing this like idea of 829 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,239 Speaker 1: other and this is this thing that doesn't belong in 830 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:31,960 Speaker 1: this box, that we're going to keep it over here 831 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:36,440 Speaker 1: in this box. So I've had this internal is this okay? 832 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: Is it's not okay? And I think it's just is 833 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,240 Speaker 1: neither right? I mean, I guess sort of take out, 834 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 1: take out autism and put in anything else deaf people, 835 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:53,480 Speaker 1: blind people, wheelchair users. Would that sort of inherently feel exploititive? 836 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,840 Speaker 1: Would it? Like? What that's the word, that's what it is? Exploited? 837 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,960 Speaker 1: What it feel like? You know? I mean, I'm like, 838 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 1: I need to do my own love on the spectrum 839 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,920 Speaker 1: and just like a whole series about like my dating life, 840 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,040 Speaker 1: because there are you know, look, there's there's a lot 841 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 1: that is sort of hilarious about having, you know, a 842 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:21,040 Speaker 1: brain that works differently when dating feels very conventional. You know, 843 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,319 Speaker 1: there there are ways that there's a way that you 844 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,440 Speaker 1: talk to somebody, there's a way that you approach somebody, 845 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 1: and like I had no idea even like wait, what 846 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,520 Speaker 1: do you mean? What is going out for drinks mean? 847 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 1: Like I'm gonna get hungry? Can't we just have dinner? 848 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,400 Speaker 1: And you don't realize, like wait, the reason why you 849 00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,000 Speaker 1: go out for drinks is so you can only be 850 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 1: there for like fifteen minutes if you don't like the person. 851 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,319 Speaker 1: You know. So like, so I was, you know, if 852 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,320 Speaker 1: somebody suggested to me we should go out for drinks 853 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,480 Speaker 1: and I'd be like, oh, why how about dinner lunch 854 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,640 Speaker 1: or like a thing, you know, and you're like, no, actually, 855 00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:52,759 Speaker 1: there's like a formula to this, but you don't sort 856 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,120 Speaker 1: of you know they're they're these are social cues or 857 00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:57,400 Speaker 1: whatever that you don't pick up on. And so I 858 00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,840 Speaker 1: always think, like, man, if you were to see my 859 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,439 Speaker 1: love on this spectrum, like you'd, you know, really get 860 00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,759 Speaker 1: to kick of that because it's it's it's real silly. Well, 861 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that feels less if you're creating it, 862 00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,920 Speaker 1: it's not exploitive. And I think that, yeah, I think 863 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,480 Speaker 1: that's what I kept feeling it too. I'm glad you 864 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,440 Speaker 1: used that word. This feels like it's exploiting this thing 865 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,239 Speaker 1: for money if it was just an educational tool to 866 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,560 Speaker 1: help awareness and all that. That's one thing, yeah, I mean, 867 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,960 Speaker 1: but in our world it's hard to do that. You know. 868 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,520 Speaker 1: I have a real like beef about sort of autism 869 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,240 Speaker 1: awareness or at large, because it's like everybody is aware 870 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,399 Speaker 1: that autism, is it, right, Like, like what we need 871 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,160 Speaker 1: actually is for people to stop thinking that one there's 872 00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,919 Speaker 1: some cure that people need to be cured too, that like, 873 00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,720 Speaker 1: there are many ways of moving through this world, and 874 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:57,879 Speaker 1: people's lives can be made measurably better by accommodations of 875 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:02,200 Speaker 1: all kinds. I got the idea to send, you know, 876 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:06,440 Speaker 1: a language guide to you from my friend Katherine May, 877 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 1: who's an author who is also autistic, and she has 878 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,560 Speaker 1: a much more sort of extensive list of accommodations when 879 00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,239 Speaker 1: she does speaking engagements and whatnot. And one of them 880 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,760 Speaker 1: is like, please don't hug me, right, And we assume 881 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,720 Speaker 1: everyone is fine with getting hugs or handshakes or whatever, 882 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,439 Speaker 1: and I'm sure the pandemic has changed that, but it's like, 883 00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:31,319 Speaker 1: you know, it's there are people who have different feelings 884 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 1: and needs and whatever, and it's okay to just be like, hey, 885 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,160 Speaker 1: are you a hugger? No? Okay? Cool? Like no problem, like, hey, 886 00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,880 Speaker 1: elbow bump whatever. You know, when I was a kid, 887 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:44,440 Speaker 1: I hated being hugged by strangers. I could not stand it. 888 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,440 Speaker 1: And I really hated when adults would say, oh, just 889 00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:49,719 Speaker 1: give this person to hugs, like why why would I 890 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,120 Speaker 1: hug you? I don't know you. And so now when 891 00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,400 Speaker 1: I engage with children like my friends kids, you know, 892 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, they'll say, oh, give onto Laura hug. I'm like, no, no, no, no. 893 00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:00,040 Speaker 1: If you don't want to give me a hug, you 894 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,560 Speaker 1: don't have to, Like you do have to acknowledge that 895 00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,200 Speaker 1: I'm leaving. You do have to acknowledge that I've arrived. 896 00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:06,960 Speaker 1: So you can say hi, or you can you know, 897 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,680 Speaker 1: wave by, or we can give a fist bump or whatever. 898 00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:14,040 Speaker 1: But there's just like a million accommodations or million different 899 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,399 Speaker 1: ways of doing things. I don't have to make eye 900 00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,880 Speaker 1: contact with you to show you that I'm paying attention. 901 00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,840 Speaker 1: I could be an active listener. I could tell you 902 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,239 Speaker 1: in advance, Hey, I'm I don't really do eye contact, um, 903 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,279 Speaker 1: but I am paying attention to you. So please do 904 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,320 Speaker 1: know that. You know, there are a lot of ways 905 00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,520 Speaker 1: that we can signal to other people and other people 906 00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,640 Speaker 1: can signal to us that like, difference is okay and 907 00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,799 Speaker 1: it can be accommodated. That's the awareness that we need. 908 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,359 Speaker 1: That's the awareness. It's not that it exists and that oh, 909 00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,239 Speaker 1: if you just use like this vitamin then it'll go 910 00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,120 Speaker 1: away or something like that. It's like, no, Actually, like 911 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,200 Speaker 1: the people who need to be aware are the people 912 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:52,759 Speaker 1: who who want to change neurodivergent people that they need 913 00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,359 Speaker 1: to be aware that that's not on the table, and 914 00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,279 Speaker 1: what is on the table is them changing their own behavior. 915 00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:02,000 Speaker 1: It's not up to me to change how I am, 916 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's up to you to just be a 917 00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:08,680 Speaker 1: little bit more engaged and curious about the ways that 918 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,880 Speaker 1: we all operate in the world. Yeah, less the assumptions 919 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,120 Speaker 1: that like you are like me or you should be 920 00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,719 Speaker 1: like me. I like that, so thank you for that. 921 00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:19,799 Speaker 1: I I had at the I wanted to do at 922 00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,600 Speaker 1: the end a little like rapid fire thing, but we 923 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,560 Speaker 1: don't have time. So I'm gonna just do one of 924 00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,120 Speaker 1: the questions. And it doesn't have to be rapid fire, 925 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,640 Speaker 1: because like, who can actually do that? Not me? But 926 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,480 Speaker 1: the one that I was the most curious about is 927 00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,840 Speaker 1: what is the easiest way to make you smile or 928 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,080 Speaker 1: bring you joy. Well, first of all, a dog is 929 00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,880 Speaker 1: always going to do it. Like I'm a dog person. 930 00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,319 Speaker 1: There's not really any dogs that I don't like. I mean, 931 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,600 Speaker 1: there are comes some that are jerks, like for real, 932 00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:51,680 Speaker 1: but but I I love a dog and little kids 933 00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:55,279 Speaker 1: are endlessly hilarious to me. I have a three year 934 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,600 Speaker 1: old nephew, and I'm just like, who even are you? 935 00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:00,640 Speaker 1: You're like a full person. I've only been on this 936 00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:02,920 Speaker 1: planet for three years, and I will laugh endlessly at 937 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:04,880 Speaker 1: anything a kid does or so I'm like the worst 938 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,920 Speaker 1: auntie though, because I encourage that behavior. I'm the same way. 939 00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, I get on and I'm like, wait, that's 940 00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,080 Speaker 1: just funny. Let them do that again exactly. And I'm like, 941 00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,719 Speaker 1: cannot wait until like he's older and I could just 942 00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,759 Speaker 1: buy him lots of stuff that he's interested in and 943 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,759 Speaker 1: that like his parents are like, but we told him 944 00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:25,360 Speaker 1: he couldn't have that, And I'm like, yeah, but you 945 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:29,839 Speaker 1: didn't tell aunto that, so that's gonna be me as well. 946 00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,160 Speaker 1: I love that. I'm like, I wonder if, like if 947 00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,440 Speaker 1: I was a parent, if I would be the same way. 948 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,680 Speaker 1: I hope so because I think it's fun. But it's 949 00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:39,680 Speaker 1: so fun. But then you have to be the disciplinarian. 950 00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,200 Speaker 1: You have to like be like the authority figure. And 951 00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm the adjacent adult. That's how I feel. 952 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:47,600 Speaker 1: And I love being an adjacent adult because I'm like, 953 00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,880 Speaker 1: because you are afforded different you know, different sort of 954 00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,359 Speaker 1: rights and responsibilities, and it's totally fun. I mean, kids 955 00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:58,719 Speaker 1: are gas. They're always hilarious. Dogs are hilarious to me. 956 00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:04,040 Speaker 1: Like I find videos of people like falling hilarious or 957 00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,240 Speaker 1: like getting like just eating ship, you know, like following 958 00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,520 Speaker 1: eating ship. I love stuff like Them's like such a child, 959 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,160 Speaker 1: you know. My friend put in put on you know. 960 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:16,400 Speaker 1: When we got into a car the other day, it 961 00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,080 Speaker 1: was a Spotify of just fart sounds and I was 962 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:23,200 Speaker 1: howling laughing, you know, and I'm like, what I'm gonna business? 963 00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:25,479 Speaker 1: What brings me joint? I'm I I should be better 964 00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:30,239 Speaker 1: than that. I'm an adult. But oh well no, no, um, 965 00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,879 Speaker 1: well thank you so much. Where can people find you 966 00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,239 Speaker 1: and your podcast? And both of your podcast because the one, 967 00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,000 Speaker 1: the first one I sounded very interesting to me. I 968 00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,040 Speaker 1: would like to listen to that as well. So the 969 00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:44,279 Speaker 1: loudest Girl in the world is available everywhere you get 970 00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,600 Speaker 1: your podcasts. The other show that I have that just 971 00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:48,680 Speaker 1: came out was called Fine Guerilla Person and that is 972 00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,120 Speaker 1: on Audible and that is a Pace service. But you 973 00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,480 Speaker 1: can get a free trial if you're smart. Um and 974 00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:57,399 Speaker 1: I'm on all social media at ober and out, so 975 00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:59,520 Speaker 1: hit me up by the way. When I saw that 976 00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,680 Speaker 1: was your hand, well, I was like, this is so good. 977 00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:06,000 Speaker 1: I try. My brothers is at ober kill uh, so 978 00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:11,839 Speaker 1: you know his his his is a little bit more. Yeah, 979 00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:13,919 Speaker 1: my last name is defata. There's not like a play 980 00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,000 Speaker 1: on words for that. So but I bet when you 981 00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,360 Speaker 1: were a kid you got called cat Fats or something 982 00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:22,319 Speaker 1: like that. Katherine de Fat, Katherine Fat. Yeah, some people 983 00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:24,200 Speaker 1: did on accident, but there was a group of mean 984 00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:26,919 Speaker 1: kids that did it on purpose. And I will never forget, 985 00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:28,560 Speaker 1: of course, of course, and then you know where they 986 00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:33,120 Speaker 1: are now Nowhere, I don't know, hopefully. Sometimes I do 987 00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,080 Speaker 1: want to call them out because I remember their names, 988 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,359 Speaker 1: but I'm like, kin, find your interpece exactly exactly. They're 989 00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:38,840 Speaker 1: not worth it.