1 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. You know, over the 2 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: course of my career as medical legal death investigator in Atlanta, 3 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: New Orleans, we had many people that have come up 4 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: to me and ask me, what's what's the most bizarre 5 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:36,279 Speaker 1: case that you've ever heard of? Well, today I want 6 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: to tell you about one of those cases. This case 7 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: I've known about for some time. It's a case involving 8 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: the murderer of Andre Daegel in New Orleans. I'm Joseph 9 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is Body Bags. Joining me today 10 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: is my good friend Jackie Howard, executive producer of Crime Stories. 11 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: Wouldn't Nancy Grace Jackie tell us about Andre's death? Year 12 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: old Andre Dagil decides to go out to a bar 13 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: after a long week of work. The year old shoots 14 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: some pool and starts a flirtation with a woman at 15 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: the bar. As the night progressed, so does the flirtation, 16 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: and the woman invites Dagil back to her apartment. But 17 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: what Dagil does not know is that she is a lure. 18 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: She is a plant intending to bring a person, not 19 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: necessarily Dagil, but a man back to the apartment for 20 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: her boyfriend and his friend to kill. After they get 21 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: to the apartment, Dagil passes out because of the alcohol 22 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: that he is consumed, and at that time two men 23 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: come out of the bedroom and begin the process of 24 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: murdering Daigel. So this is a case that is indeed bizarre, 25 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,639 Speaker 1: but it's not just a case that you've heard about. 26 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: You worked this case, Joe, Yeah, I did. This was 27 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,559 Speaker 1: literally right at the beginning of my career when dinosaurs 28 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: were on the earth. And what's really interesting, it wasn't 29 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: just me. It was a bevy of investigators and at 30 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: the end this case wound up involving about five different jurisdictions. 31 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: But you know, we we were discussing Andre Dagal's death 32 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: and it was kind of bizarre. This This person that 33 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: essentially lured him uh in was a young lady by 34 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 1: the name of Thelma Horn and she resided with these 35 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,839 Speaker 1: two other fellows. One guy's name was Michael Phillips, who 36 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 1: was her boyfriend. He's he's only by twenty one years old. 37 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: And then you got this old, krusty ex con and 38 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: I say old and kind of with a grin. He's 39 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: only twenty four. His name was Charles gravas and he 40 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: he had kind of lured both Phillips and Horn into 41 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 1: this interesting, uh little triumvirent of theirs. They they had 42 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: designs on becoming um members of organized crime, and at 43 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: the time of Andre's killing, their goal was not just 44 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: to see what it would be like or if they 45 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: could in fact kill a man, but their goal was 46 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: also to prove how tough they were, because not only 47 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: were they going to demonstrate that they could commit a 48 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: homicide and I'm talking about it, this was it's up 49 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: there in in my cases um with its level of brutality, 50 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: um and callousness. Because you know, Andrea was just random. 51 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: They set out to specifically pick a man to do 52 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: this too had to be man because keep in mind, 53 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: as we mentioned, the almen was debate. She went in 54 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,119 Speaker 1: just trying to attract some one, and boy, she took 55 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: him hunk a lot and sink her. They left that 56 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: bar that night, Mitchell's Lounge, uh in Kenda, Louisiana. They 57 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: left that bar that night in his truck, and she 58 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: had just merely said, hey, why don't we why don't 59 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: we go for a drive, And the next thing you know, 60 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: they both wind up at her apartment and you know, 61 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: you can imagine, I mean, he's he's attracted to her, 62 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: she's showing interest in him. Been boning beers, he's had 63 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: a few, and of course he gets back to the 64 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: apartment and the way the story kind of spun out 65 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: was that she had told him, look, I've I've got 66 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: a friend in the back bedroom. I've got to go 67 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: check on. And he goes back there to check on, 68 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: and the next thing you know, he's passed out on 69 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 1: the sofa, and very soon there after Hell followed. Michael 70 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: Phillips and Charles Gervais, as you said, set out to 71 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: kill someone, anyone, a random person. But what they found 72 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: out that it was as easy as they thought it 73 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: was going to be. They ended up using several methods 74 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 1: to kill Entree. They started out with a claw hammer. 75 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: Can you paint a picture for me of what a 76 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: claw hammer is, Joe, Well, claw hammer is just a 77 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: standard carpenter's hammer, you know, and there's there's various sizes 78 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: of these things. You know, they have different weights to them. 79 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: You know, people might be familiar with something that's called 80 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: a finishing hammer, which tends to be a bit heavier, 81 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: use it for framing, houses and for doing all manner 82 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: of things. But it's got a hook on the back 83 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: of it, you know, the two claws, two prongs that 84 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: make up a claw to pull nails out with, and 85 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: of course it's got the blunted in that you drive 86 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: nails with. And over the course of my career, I've 87 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 1: seen any number of injuries that result from an attack 88 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: with a hammer, and you just don't have those surfaces. 89 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: You know, if you think about looking down the long 90 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: access of a hammer, the first thing you think about 91 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: is that, uh, the end of it. That's about the 92 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: size of saying between the size of a diameter, between 93 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: the size of a nickel and a quarter, okay, depend 94 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: upon the size of the of the hammer. And it's blunt. 95 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: It's got smooth, smooth surface, and then it's got these 96 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: little rounded edges. But then the nasty bits are where 97 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: the claw is. You know, you've got these two protruding 98 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: um sharp edges that leave when you strike with those, 99 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: they leave very definitive marks behind, So you won't just 100 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: get like a solid blunt force contusion that's left behind. Say, 101 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 1: for instance, if you strike somebody with the blunted in, 102 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: you'll get these really nasty injuries that are what are 103 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: referred to as uh penetrative injuries because those those little claws, 104 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: those little prongs, they actually act as in sizing instruments 105 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: where they're digging in. It's almost like a bilateral stab wounds. 106 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: And to even make this further, uh quite ghastly, is 107 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: that when that hammer is dug in with a claw 108 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: aspect of it, it has to be retrieved and pulled 109 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: out and its leverage generally by lifting it. So anything 110 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: that's caught beneath the surface of the skin, any kind 111 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: of muscle, any kind of connective tissue, bone, even if 112 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: you strike it as you're pulling that thing out in 113 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: this fevered moment, you can take some of that with you. 114 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: So it's very it's a very horrible type of death 115 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: as you can imagine. Um, you know, I remember seeing 116 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: Andre's body. I'd gone to the morgue and it was 117 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: actually the autopsy was actually done in the Orleans Parish 118 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: Morgue under the direction of Dr mcarry. That was he's 119 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: deceased now, but he he was the forensic pathologist that 120 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: conducted the examination at the Old Corner's office in New Orleans, 121 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: which actually happened to be in the basement of the courthouse, 122 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: and the room was filled with people because there were 123 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: so many jurisdictions involved in this case, and this examination 124 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: took quite some time. It was the injuries were quite extensive. 125 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to make a very easy assumption, Joe, what 126 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: you're telling me is these men used both ends of 127 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: that hammer on Andre. Yeah, that that would be the case. 128 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: And this is it's further complicated by this fact. Um, 129 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: his body had been down. It had been down for 130 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: a while, and he you know, given the fact that, um, 131 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 1: that his body was eventually found outdoors in very hostile environment. 132 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 1: And I want to say hostile, I'm talking about the 133 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: environment itself. Remember South Louisiana. Is it's so very hot, 134 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: particularly this time of year. His body was decomposed to 135 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: the point where, you know, you could still appreciate the injuries. 136 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong. Is it's not like his remains 137 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: are skeletonized or anything. However, Um, it's compromised to the 138 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: point where, uh where McGary could not he could not 139 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: make a determination as to the exact number of injuries, 140 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 1: but he opined at the time that he thought that 141 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: it was at least ten blunt force injuries, and you're 142 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: gonna have a mix of these when you're talking about 143 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:25,439 Speaker 1: a hammer. And one of the fascinating things about uh 144 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,719 Speaker 1: someone being attacked with so called claw hammer is that 145 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: you've got all of these surfaces that are involved and uh, 146 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 1: you know, we have that deleting uh surface that most 147 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: people think about with a hammer, you know, uh that 148 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: literally knocks nails through wood or any other kind of surface. 149 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: And then you have the claw side that you used 150 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: to pull out uh nails for instance, or or break 151 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: things apart. But then you have sides as well that 152 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: are very linear. And you know, if you think about 153 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: the profile of say that claw, it's got a curve shape. 154 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: And I've seen many times where people will twist the 155 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: hammer in their hands and hit people literally with a 156 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: side of the hammer, if you can imagine that, And 157 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: they'll have these weird arching shaped insults contused areas over 158 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: the and you'll get like what we referred to as 159 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: kind of a co mingling of injuries. So you'll see 160 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: the kind of coin shape where the hammer strike takes place. 161 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: Then you can see the claws that are penetrating, and 162 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: then you can see the kind of arching shape that's 163 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: left behind by the side profile of the hammer. It's 164 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: it really takes a long time to kind of make 165 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: your way through these injuries. And when you begin to 166 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: think about you throw decomposition artifact, and on top of that, 167 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: and the body is changing colors and all these sorts 168 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: of things. You really have to be careful when you're 169 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: trying to interpret these things because you don't know what's 170 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: exactly going on. But the the interesting thing about it, 171 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: I think is that depended upon how the hammer itself 172 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: is oriented, you can kind of begin to tell a 173 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: story about the movements of the perpetrator and sometimes even 174 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: the movements or reactions of the victim as they're being struck. Joe, 175 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: you mentioned blunt force injuries, but wouldn't it be But 176 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: wouldn't if you have a claw hammer and both sides 177 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: of the hammers being used, you would not only have 178 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: blunt force injuries, but wouldn't you have sharp force injuries? 179 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: To Jackie, have you've been studying in our off time? 180 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: It sounds like you have, then I'll tell you what. Yeah, yeah, 181 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. That's a great pick up because you 182 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: know when when we talked about this on bodybacks, Now, 183 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: well you know, when you've got blunt force and you 184 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: think about you know, kind of the leading coin shaped 185 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: of impact area that's not going to break the surface 186 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: of the skin most of the time. You know, now 187 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 1: will it will? If you strike, say, for instance, on 188 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: somebody shoulder, blading can tear the skin and that's what's 189 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: called a laceration. Lacerations are related to blot force trauma. 190 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: That's a ripping of the skin. But but with sharp force. 191 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: Remember think about that claw as it's leading. Okay, those 192 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: edges along those prongs are very sharp, so you have 193 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: a sharp force injury. And what do we talked about 194 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: when we talk about sharp force, Well, we talked about 195 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: stab wounds, you know, where people are actually stabbed with 196 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: a knife. We have chopping wounds, um, which can look 197 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,599 Speaker 1: like a machete or an axe, and you have slices 198 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: where if you think about the leading edge of the knife, 199 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: like if someone takes a stake knife and drags it 200 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: through somebody's hand, demonstrating uh, defensive injuries. So there's a 201 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: whole category a sharp force injuries and of course the 202 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: hammer with a claw would certainly fit into that category 203 00:12:47,600 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: as well. Um to say that that the death of 204 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: Andre Daegel was a very dark chapter in certainly in 205 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: my investigative history is it's pretty accurate. And you know, 206 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: I don't know that i've uh. I think maybe a 207 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: lot of it has to do with the fact that 208 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: I was so young when I became involved in this case, 209 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,319 Speaker 1: and it it kind of marked me at that moment 210 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: time the things that I had seen Jackie. When Michael 211 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: Phillips and Charles Grove started this attack on Andre Daegel, 212 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: it was not successful with the claw hammer. He was 213 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: still alive, he still had movement in his body. So 214 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: they moved on to strangulation and they started with a 215 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: code hanger. Yeah, this is new territory for for these two. 216 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: And you know, you can't you can't forget about Horn either, 217 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: the woman who who lured Andre into the situation in 218 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: the first place. You began to you know, consider uh. 219 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,839 Speaker 1: They're they're attempting to prove that they're capable of doing this, 220 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: and I think the level of brutality that this thing 221 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: extended to goes to the impression they're trying to create. 222 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: So they've they've got this man, this poor defensive man. 223 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: And by the way, you know, Andrea had family. You know, 224 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: he he had lots of of of cousins and brothers 225 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: and sisters and people that truly loved him, and they 226 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: were very very tight knit family. Um, and he was 227 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: just out to have a good time that night and 228 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: he just got selected. But you know, these three, this 229 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: terrible trio injected into Andre's life. This this level of 230 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: horror that I don't think any of us can even 231 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: begin to comprehend. And what is so terrible about this 232 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: is that after they had been beating Andre with this hammer, um, 233 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: he was still he still probably had some kind of 234 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: agonal respirations. They had not successfully been eating him enough. 235 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: And both of these individuals, both Gervais and Uh as 236 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: well as Phillips, they took turns. They took turns doing this. 237 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: I guess both of them wanted to get their hands dirty, 238 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: and they concluded that they still had to do something 239 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: else because in in their eye, he was still alive. 240 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: So they started out with a hangar. Now, you know, 241 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: I've seen in the movies, I think a couple of 242 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: times where hangars have been utilized in order to kind 243 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: of uh be fashioned into almost like a groat, if 244 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: you will, where the hands are crossed essentially, and the 245 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: hangar has put across the anterior aspect of the neck 246 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: that's the front of the neck, and then squeezed down. 247 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: And again, if you don't have a lot of experience 248 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: doing that sort of thing, and I don't know who 249 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: out there actually does, um, it would be very difficult. 250 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: And they attempted to do this, you know, later reports 251 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: it turned out um And so when that not work, 252 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: they actually took um an electrical cord that had I 253 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: believe had been attached to a vacuum cleaner, and they 254 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: wrapped it around his neck and they used it as 255 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: a literature and began to choke him out. And then 256 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: apparently this is what finally you know, uh, took Andre out. Now, 257 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: you know we're talking about injuries. You begin to think 258 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: about these strikes that you have, this blunt force trauma, 259 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: which you know it's got all kinds of little nuances 260 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: to it. Well, these strangulation marks do as well. You know, 261 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: you you take a rigid hangar, for instance, and you know, 262 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: compared to an electric cord, a metal code hanger, or 263 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: even a wooden code hangar for that that matter, has 264 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: a level of rigidity to it that's say, uh, coded 265 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: electrical cord does not. So when you lay uh, this 266 00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: kind of rigid wire surface or wooden surface across us 267 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: the throat, it's going to leave a very distinctive mark 268 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: um and it will not continue on around the neck, 269 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: say like a cord would. So you would have a 270 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: very specific area let's say only uh, maybe four to 271 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 1: five inches of that coat hanger is going to involve 272 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: that surface of the neck, and it will be very 273 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: You'll have what's referred to as focal hemorrhage. It will 274 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: be very linear. It'll match up. It's it's very simple. 275 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: It just matches up with the margins, as they say, 276 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: the borders of the instrument being used. Now you look 277 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: at something like a flexible ligature like an electrical cord, 278 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: and this can be wrapped all the way around the throat, 279 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: so you'll have a mark that will go all the 280 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: way around and the hemorrhage might not be as significant 281 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: as it would be, say if you had a firm surface, 282 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: but there still will be hemorrhage. And you can actually 283 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that we can actually 284 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 1: do it autopsy. If we have the literature, we can 285 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 1: actually match that it up to a certain degree with 286 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: the injury. If we get the dimensions of that ligature 287 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: that you say is standard electrical appliance cord and measure 288 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: that relative to the flexible ligature mark that's been left behind, 289 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: and it can be damning evidence when it finally goes 290 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: to court. The perpetrators were watching Andre Dagild still had 291 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 1: a certain type of respiration. What was that job? Yeah, 292 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: it's a it's an agonal respiration. And if folks will 293 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: just think, okay, let's put it to let me put 294 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: it too this way. If you're being attacked, say with 295 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 1: like a hammer blunt force trauma, uh, you're being struck 296 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: about the head. Well, if those injuries are say, only 297 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: located in the front to the top of the head, 298 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 1: all right, and you don't injure the backside down what 299 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: we refer to as kind of the where the autonomic 300 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 1: nervous system is kind of house, you know, kind of 301 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: our wiring that controls our breathing, in our heart beat 302 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: and all that sort of stuff. The higher functions of 303 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: the brain are gonna shut down, but yet your heart 304 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: will still continue to beat, You'll still respire. Now, the 305 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: quality of life is not going to be there, but 306 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: that kind of primal thing that's going on. That part 307 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: of the brain has not been impacted necessarily by the 308 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: blunt force trauma. So you can actually have someone that 309 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: has been severely beaten and even have depressed skull fracture. 310 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 1: And you know this happens in car accidents all the time. 311 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: You know, where people will be uh you know, life 312 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: lighting in and they have severe head trauma, but it 313 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: will not have impacted uh kind of the brain steam 314 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: as much, and so they still have the ability to 315 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: to breathe, for instance, but their higher brain functions are 316 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: not there, and you can still get these kind of 317 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: movements that come about. And it's probably what they were 318 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: witnessing at that point in time, and they're thinking, oh 319 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: my god, here we are. We've beating this guy. We've 320 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: got a bloody mess on our hands. Now, how do 321 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: we go about finishing the guy off? And poor Andre, 322 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,479 Speaker 1: you know, he's laying there. Can you imagine on that dirty, 323 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 1: filthy apartment floor, carpeted surface, there's spots of blood everywhere. 324 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: You know, this has been going on. Now from what 325 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: we were able to tell, this may have gone on 326 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: jacket for as long as four hours. And finally they 327 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: mercifully they decided to end his life at that moment 328 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 1: in time. I don't know truly how much mercy was 329 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: involved in it, because it's absolutely horrific, but finally his 330 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: life ended. In looking at the damage that was caused 331 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: to Andrea Degl's skull being beaten with the hammer, his 332 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: skull would been in multiple pieces. In being beaten with 333 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: the back end the claw of the hammer, as we 334 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: pointed out, it would have dug through the skull into 335 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 1: the tissue the brain below, so the damage to the 336 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: brain and the body systems were irreparable. The likelihood that 337 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: Andrea Degl would have survived this even if he hadn't 338 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: been choked, it's pretty slim and would have been a slow, 339 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: agonizing death. Yeah. Again, if his pain centers were still working, 340 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 1: it would have been and I don't know what his 341 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: level of awareness was, and hopefully hoped to God that 342 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: it wasn't there. Even if he had survived, I don't 343 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: know what the quality of his life would have been 344 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: at if they had just said, you know, they just 345 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: called it. At that moment, Tim said, we've done wrong here. 346 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 1: Let's get an amuless over here. You know, as much 347 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: trauma as I saw that had been inflicted um to 348 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: Andre's head at that you know, as a result of 349 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: those blunt force blows, I don't see how he could 350 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: have survived. And probably eventually if they had just left 351 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: the body alone, he would have finally succumbed because you know, 352 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: if nothing else as a result of this trauma, all 353 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 1: the little micro vessels around his his brain and in 354 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: the even what we call the dura, the duras ack 355 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 1: that encompasses the burnin um, you would have those would 356 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: have ruptured, so blood would have begun to encompass the brain, 357 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 1: and eventually the brain literally strangulates because of all of 358 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: the pressure that's on the brain at that point in time, 359 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: So you're just leaching out this blood. He probably would 360 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: have eventually died. But they saw, I think these agonal respirations. 361 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: They probably saw some movement twitching on his part, and uh, 362 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 1: they decided to go ahead and essentially choke him out 363 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: to the point where he couldn't respire any longer, and 364 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: he finally died. You can strangle the brain, yeah, and 365 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a it's not well, yeah, it's 366 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 1: kind of a euphemistic term that's used by many friends 367 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: and pathologists UM. And essentially what it means is that 368 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: the brain, as a result of um lack of oxygenated 369 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: blood and also the swelling or edema that sets in, 370 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,959 Speaker 1: essentially shuts down all the functions of the brain can 371 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: no longer process like it should process because it's being 372 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: inhibited by all of this trauma. So oxygen is not 373 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 1: getting to where it needs to get to. And you know, 374 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: out of every organ in the body, the brain probably 375 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: requires more oxygen than any other organ in the body. Okay, 376 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, the heart and the lungs are essentially there 377 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: to service the brain, so the brain can tell the 378 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 1: rest of the body what to do. And I know 379 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: that's overly simplified, but it is. You know, there's a 380 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: reason it's called the nerve center. It's kind of our 381 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: onboard computer that tells us exactly, that tells our body 382 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: exactly what to do. You know, even these things that 383 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,719 Speaker 1: we're not conscious of, like our heart beating and breathing 384 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, blinking of the eyes and all 385 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: these sorts of things, you know, down to the smallest 386 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: little detail in our life. And if that's compromised in 387 00:23:50,359 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: any way, in any way, you know, major problems. So 388 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: you want to prove that tough you are, so you 389 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 1: have your girlfriend go and essentially attract this young man 390 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: unaware of what is waiting for him around the corner. 391 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: You have her bring him back to the apartment, and 392 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: then you beat him to death. That was the next step, Joe, 393 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 1: to dispose of the body. Yet we know that it 394 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: did not happen immediately. How did they dispose of the body, Joe? 395 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: How do you get rid of a man who has 396 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: been murdered in an apartment? Yeah, and we're not talking 397 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: about some tiny little guy. We're talking about a big, 398 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: robust man that worked with his hands. He was Andre 399 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 1: was a carpenter um and very good carpenter. You know, 400 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: he left behind in his wake a tremendous amount of blood. 401 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: They've been beating on him for a couple of hours. 402 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: According to reports, he'd bled out on the on the 403 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: carpet floor. As a matter of fact, Um, you know, 404 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: I think that at one point in time. The next day, 405 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: the landlord, who the these three had been dodging for 406 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: a while because they were being threatened with eviction, actually 407 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: came up to the apartment on a surprise visit. He 408 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: noticed red substance on the carpet. They said that they 409 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 1: had been painting. They're going to clean that up. And 410 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 1: you know, of course they dodged him at that moment time. 411 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,199 Speaker 1: But you know, the question is what happened to Andrea. Well, 412 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,439 Speaker 1: these three they make the decision that they have this. 413 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: There's a homemade sofa already in this little apartment and 414 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: it's this rather rather robust in size, and they get 415 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: the idea, until we can decide where to put Andre's body, 416 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: we're gonna put him in the sofa. I've never encountered 417 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: this before, but they took Andre's body, took down curtains 418 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 1: in the apartment and wrapped his body in these curtains, 419 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: all right, to try to I guess, to try to 420 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: stem blood flow or the seepage of blood because he's deceased. 421 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: There's not gonna be blood flow, but it's seepage of 422 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: blood after death. And then they placed him in the 423 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: bottom of the sofa, and in order to contain him 424 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: within it, they took u slats of wood and nail 425 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: them over the base, you know, over the bottom of 426 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: the sofa to contain his body in there. And then 427 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: you know what they did they went over to the 428 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: thermstat I guess they knew enough science to do this. 429 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: They went over to the thermostat and turned that thermostat 430 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,479 Speaker 1: down as far as it can go. And I keep 431 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,239 Speaker 1: in mind, um, I lived in New Orleans for a 432 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: long time. Air Conditioners struggle during the summer, you know, 433 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: and many times it doesn't matter how powerful the air 434 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: conditioner is, it struggles because it's so bloody hot and 435 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: and humid. So they knew that they were gonna have 436 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: a problem on their hands. And you know, later it 437 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: was reported that they said they didn't want his body 438 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: to sneak as it were, but they knew, as many 439 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: people do that wind up committing a heinous crime like 440 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: this involving a body, they know that they need to 441 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: try to put as much distance between themselves and essentially 442 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: what turns out to be the fruits of their evil labor. 443 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: Several things you mentioned in their Joe Louisiana and the heat. 444 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 1: How did that play into the disposal of this body? 445 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 1: Given that wood and fabric very porous on both counts, 446 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 1: so this makeshift coffin would not have been air tight, 447 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: allowing depending on where the sofa was disposed of, allowing water, 448 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: allowing the heat, allowing animals, bugs to contribute to the decomposition. 449 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 1: So how would that have all played in together. Yeah, 450 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: this is one of the fascinating elements. You know. This. 451 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: The homicide itself took place in Jefferson Parish, Louisiana. Remember 452 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: Louisiana didn't have counties at parishes, and in the town 453 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: of Kinner, Louisiana, which is a town within Jefferson Parish. 454 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: But they decided they Gravy and uh and Phillips that 455 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:37,120 Speaker 1: they're gonna take for Andre's truck. He had a black 456 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: pickup truck. They're gonna take his truck, which, of course 457 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: he came home with horn in um downstairs, parking in 458 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: the parking lot and put that sofa in the back 459 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: of that truck. And they're gonna travel down the road 460 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: to another parish. They're gonna have to cross essentially the 461 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: spillway as it's referred to as in New Orleans, the 462 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: Moon Carey Spillway along I ten across the western end 463 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: of Lake Ponto Training everybody's heard of of Lake Pont Train. 464 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: And they have to wind up and they finally wind 465 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: up in a place called Laplace and people that are 466 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: not from South Louisiana. Many times they'll call it La place, 467 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: and that's the way it spelled, but it's a laplase. 468 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: And they pulled off of the road that took an 469 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: eggit actually eggs at number seven, and they went down 470 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: a little dirt road and as you can imagine, you're 471 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: adjacent to UH to Lake Pontch Train, the swamps all around, 472 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: and it's very very swampy, it's very hot, it's very buggy, okay. 473 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: And what they did is they took the sofa containing 474 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: Andre's body, and I remember they wrapped him up inside 475 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: these curtains and then nailed him essentially uh. Some people 476 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: have reported it as being sewn in uh to the 477 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: base of this of this sofa. I've never seen anything 478 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: like it in my life. And dumped his body out 479 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: there in those swamps and left him there, and then 480 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: once they had accomplished that task, they drive off. But 481 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: keep in mind, um bodies in South Louisiana or in Florida, 482 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: any kind of tropical subtropical environment begin to break down 483 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: very quickly. And you know, at a even at a 484 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: molecular level of decomposition, it's almost impossible to stem decomposition. 485 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: I don't care where you are. It happens. Cells begin 486 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: to break down, but it's it's accelerated in these tropical 487 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: subtropical environments because as we know from science classes when 488 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: we're young, Uh, every experiment that we've ever done in 489 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: chemistry or fiscal science always begins with heat, doesn't it. Okay, 490 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: And so you've got a lot of that down there. 491 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: You've got a lot of heat. So at the moment 492 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: that they would have exited that apartment, which remember they 493 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: had jacked that that temperature all the way down in there, 494 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: uh to try to get as cold as possible. Remember 495 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: they said they didn't want him to stink. Uh. They 496 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: put him in the back of that truck, and all 497 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: the while, all the while, at a molecular level, at 498 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: a cellular level, his body is beginning to break down. 499 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: It's beginning to break down as they're going down the 500 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: road because the heat this is June, it's very hot, 501 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: trust me. And finally when they get out there to 502 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: to this location, they put him on the side of 503 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: the road and leave him there, and all the while 504 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: um Andre's remains are beginning to break down. All of 505 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: the evidence that is there on his body is beginning 506 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: to be compromised to a great degree. Remember when we 507 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: were talking about his examination by mcgarriott at the Orleans 508 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: Paris Corner's office. Um, those insults are injuries that he 509 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: has sustained have begun to change, you know, they change 510 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: in color, uh, in how they're presenting, and the environment 511 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: impacts how you wind up examining the body to a 512 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: great degree. It makes you you try to be as 513 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: careful as you can at autopsy, you know, with evidence 514 00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: and trying to document everything, but you have to take 515 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: even more care because there's kind of this uh it's 516 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: like observing life through a foggy lens, if you will. 517 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: It's harder to appreciate, and decomposition works that way. It 518 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: hides things many times. So that's why if you have 519 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: a decomposing body, as as horrible as it is to 520 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: be around, and trust me, it is uh Um. It 521 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: gets into everything. It impacts the way you you you 522 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: conduct yourself in this environment, but it also demands of 523 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: the individuals participating in this examination to stay longer. It's 524 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: counterintuitive to everything you want to do. You know, you 525 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: think about being around, being around a human body to 526 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: begin with, people that aren't normally used to being around 527 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: the deceased. You don't want to stay there any longer. 528 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: You have to. People try to exit as quickly as 529 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: they can. Have seen to happen over and over and 530 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: over again. How much more so does that does that 531 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: impact you? When you're around a body that is decomposed. 532 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: So when you're in this environment, because the tissue is 533 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: so compromise, you have to take your time. You have 534 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: to be very very careful as you're conducting this examination 535 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: because you're only gonna get one shot. And I want 536 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: all of our listeners to remember this. The longer the 537 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: longer you stay with the body doing this examination, the 538 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: more careful you are, the it lessens the odds that 539 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: you're going to have to go back and revisit something. 540 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: Because once that body has left the morgue, once the 541 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: body is off the table, it's put into a body 542 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: bag and the funeral home takes it away. That body 543 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: is either cremated or buried. It's gone forever and ever. 544 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: You can't go back and recapture that moment. So you 545 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: have to be very very careful. And that's that's what 546 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: they had to do that the Orleans pairs Morgling Day. 547 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: After all the horror that these three impacted uh Andre's 548 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: family with the sudden taking of his life and this 549 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: horrible disposal of his remains with such disrespect, finally, finally 550 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,479 Speaker 1: law enforcement Dennis South Louisiana put the handcuffs on all three, 551 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: and all three were eventually convicted and wound up serving 552 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:19,800 Speaker 1: the life sentences in Louisiana State Prisons. I am Joseph 553 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is body backs.