Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: As I mentioned, we've been hearing about AI and the
Speaker 2: emergence of AI for a lot of years now, but
Speaker 2: suddenly it's like a front burner issue. In Washington at
Speaker 2: the G seven event, the Builder Burgers are talking about it.
Speaker 2: It's being debated in the labs of Silicon Valley, and
Speaker 2: it's been coming a long time, but suddenly it's front
Speaker 2: burner and Brian Rummilly has been one of the people
Speaker 2: who's responsible for that. Brian, I can't believe this is
Speaker 2: the first time you've been on coast, but we're so
Speaker 2: glad to have you here.
Speaker 3: Well, George, what an honor, just a pleasure to be
Speaker 3: here and love this subject and I think we have
Speaker 3: so much to cover so were doing. It is definitely
Speaker 3: top of the top of the mind for people right now.
Speaker 2: I've seen tweets of yours. I love your Twitter feed.
Speaker 2: It covers so much ground on a whole bunch of
Speaker 2: different topics. But it seems like I remember seeing one
Speaker 2: that refers to you diving into AI issues in the
Speaker 2: late seventies.
Speaker 1: What were you were?
Speaker 2: Thirteen years old at the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was a young guy and actually found some
Speaker 3: early NASA open source everything. NASA theoretically was open source
Speaker 3: software called CLIPS, which was really an expert system, and
Speaker 3: I was able to get it to run on PCs
Speaker 3: and just fell in love with the concept of an
Speaker 3: early form of AI, and back then getting it to
Speaker 3: answer questions very rudimentary was quite interesting. Nowhere near what
Speaker 3: we're capable of doing today, but it allowed me to
Speaker 3: sort of ride that wave of different technologies that had
Speaker 3: come and some left, you know, some just more dead ends.
Speaker 3: And now we're in what are called large language models,
Speaker 3: which is a very interesting way that we got to
Speaker 3: this place in artificial intelligence.
Speaker 2: As I've shared with you privately, I'm kind of a
Speaker 2: techno knucklehead. I'm not very tech savvy, so I'm going
Speaker 2: to ask questions that are probably pretty basic for a
Speaker 2: guy with your knowledge of this. But I think our
Speaker 2: audience is probably where I am a lot of them anyway,
Speaker 2: and concerned about the scary headlines that we all see
Speaker 2: about AI. And you know, we've all seen the Terminator movies.
Speaker 2: We know what Skynet means, and so I wanted to
Speaker 2: get a sense from you where things are and where
Speaker 2: they're headed. And let's start with sort of the positive
Speaker 2: spin on this. Can you give me a sense of
Speaker 2: because you do have a positive view of AI and
Speaker 2: where it's going, you give me a sense of what
Speaker 2: changes are likely because of AI and its emergence, what
Speaker 2: it will mean for individuals.
Speaker 3: First of all, well, I'll take the furthest view to
Speaker 3: start with, and I call this the undiscovered territory or
Speaker 3: terra incognita in Latin. The AI that we have today
Speaker 3: is generating emergent capabilities that even the scientists that have
Speaker 3: been putting this together and building it in their labs
Speaker 3: and now releasing it are rather shocked about some of
Speaker 3: the capabilities. And we can talk about that. They call
Speaker 3: it AI hallucinations. But in a lot of ways, I
Speaker 3: call it AI creativity, not human creativity, but it's creativity
Speaker 3: in some form. Where it is at this point is
Speaker 3: sort of a contradiction of two different polar opposites. Most
Speaker 3: of AI that we're using right now is in the cloud.
Speaker 3: It's not on your device. It's called out on a
Speaker 3: big server. Your questions, which are called prompts, are sent
Speaker 3: to this large server. It runs on very large computers.
Speaker 3: There are specialty processors otherwise known as graphics processors that
Speaker 3: happen to do very well on the mathematics necessary to
Speaker 3: make these things happen by building models that spector math
Speaker 3: and by actually responding to these prompts. And then there
Speaker 3: is the local models, which are just recently have come
Speaker 3: out literally we're talking about the last two months this
Speaker 3: has taken place, and the local models are privately held
Speaker 3: on your computer, have a corpus of data which is
Speaker 3: sort of like a low resolution capability of the entire
Speaker 3: data set that all of these large language models were
Speaker 3: trained on. So we're basically saying most of human knowledge
Speaker 3: that was sort of slurped up from the Internet to
Speaker 3: build these models. How we were able to get it
Speaker 3: down to for gigabytes to a gigabytes of hard disk
Speaker 3: space and run locally is still a rather deep debate
Speaker 3: on how that was achieved, because we were told that
Speaker 3: it was going to be terabytes petabytes of data to
Speaker 3: be able to have the outputs that we're getting from
Speaker 3: local models. And my belief is local models empower individuals
Speaker 3: because they can develop a relationship with their local AI
Speaker 3: ultimately train it so that it can become familiar with
Speaker 3: that person's outlook, their goals, their missions, their beliefs, and
Speaker 3: maybe even guidance to some certain level as these become
Speaker 3: more like personal assistants and agents. And in my view,
Speaker 3: the more it knows about you, the more it has
Speaker 3: to be secured, encrypted, and never touching the Internet. And
Speaker 3: that's sort of anesthetical in the direction where most of
Speaker 3: the Internet has gone. It's all based on this idea
Speaker 3: of cloud, so we're kind of going in opposite directions.
Speaker 3: But the open source community, the very same community that
Speaker 3: built most of what the Internet is running on. In fact,
Speaker 3: almost all the major operating systems are built on a
Speaker 3: Linux slash Unix sort of basis that was open source,
Speaker 3: and the open source community is building this personal AI.
Speaker 3: And instead of having maybe one hundred people at a company,
Speaker 3: tens and thousands of people are taking these models and
Speaker 3: building them to such a level that almost daily we're
Speaker 3: seeing landmarks that are being set and milestones that are
Speaker 3: being broken through. So most of the AI that I'm
Speaker 3: very positive about is the AI that we will hold
Speaker 3: in our hands at some point, and that's rapidly approaching.
Speaker 3: It's going to break all models of advertising. It's going
Speaker 3: to break all models of how we would you know,
Speaker 3: exist with a device, because once you're training an AI model,
Speaker 3: this would be the most personal thing that you would
Speaker 3: never want to be separate from. You know, there's a
Speaker 3: lot of good with that. Of course, even that has
Speaker 3: some bad. But you know, this type of I call
Speaker 3: it intelligence amplification. I took AI and reversed it because ultimately,
Speaker 3: that's what I think we're seeing in these models is
Speaker 3: human intelligence amplified and reflected back to us in this
Speaker 3: grand mirror. So that's that's the two different types of
Speaker 3: AI that I see out there, And we can go
Speaker 3: down each path if you'd like.
Speaker 2: Sure, Well, I mean, for I, Okay, let's say I
Speaker 2: developed my own individual AI, and it's it's like my
Speaker 2: other brain that I can you know, it does stuff
Speaker 2: for me? What does it do? How does it help
Speaker 2: me in my daily life?
Speaker 3: So let's let's go from the theoretical. In the perfect world,
Speaker 3: So in the perfect world, you were born with a
Speaker 3: camera and microphone, as bizarre as it sounds, sort of
Speaker 3: on your shoulder, and it follows you for your entire life,
Speaker 3: and it records every book you've ever read, every movie
Speaker 3: you've ever seen, every song you've ever heard every conversation
Speaker 3: you've ever had again with permission and maybe a social
Speaker 3: contract to understand that there's not a recording device to
Speaker 3: play back, but a recording device to catalog your life,
Speaker 3: to database your life and every interaction, everything that you've
Speaker 3: ever experienced is in this device. So not only A
Speaker 3: is it memory. B it's the ability for you to
Speaker 3: interact with the context of your interactions. So it will
Speaker 3: start making connections between different books that you've read that
Speaker 3: you would have maybe have made on your own, but
Speaker 3: maybe you wouldn't and you would have a conversation with it.
Speaker 3: I'm a proponent of what I call a voice first
Speaker 3: or voice AI ultimately, because I believe that's the ultimate
Speaker 3: interface to have a conversation. Like we are, the human
Speaker 3: brain is designed to have conversation. In fact, for us
Speaker 3: to write something, we have to translate our inner monologue.
Speaker 3: All of us have a voice in our head. When
Speaker 3: we're reading a piece of paper, we're actually hearing a
Speaker 3: voice in our head, which may or may not be
Speaker 3: your own. We can get into that sort of research
Speaker 3: that's very interesting because we're going to start having to
Speaker 3: answer some of these questions about what is human language?
Speaker 3: Where did it really come from and what's AI doing
Speaker 3: with it? But basically it's following you your entire life.
Speaker 3: That's the theory, and that becomes your intelligence amplifier. Now
Speaker 3: the other side of this is your wisdom keeper. And
Speaker 3: what's that the sum total of all of your knowledge
Speaker 3: after you've passed on, Where does that go? Who do
Speaker 3: you give it to? And what value does it have?
Speaker 3: Is it you in an AI? Is it some kind
Speaker 3: of sentient life? I don't think so. But would be
Speaker 3: able to ask answer a question of what would George
Speaker 3: Knap say about this? Perhaps very much like Chad Gpt
Speaker 3: does about answering question of what maybe Albert Einstein would
Speaker 3: say about this new discovery in physics. It'll be pulling
Speaker 3: ideas and let's say, resonances of what your essence was
Speaker 3: and sort of drumming up a response. And this is
Speaker 3: sort of what Pierre Tiladar D. Shardan came up with
Speaker 3: the nurse sphere and the Omega point, and what Chardane
Speaker 3: basically predicted back in the early nineteen hundreds he was
Speaker 3: a Jesuit priest. He said that the geosphere, which represents
Speaker 3: inanimate matter, is a first sphere, the biosphere, which is
Speaker 3: the biology of the that we're living under right now
Speaker 3: and on Earth.
Speaker 1: And then the new.
Speaker 3: Sphere, which is a human thought, human wisdom, human knowledge connection.
Speaker 3: So if you were to pass and you left your
Speaker 3: wisdom keeper available to be connected to others, you now
Speaker 3: have a new sphere. You now have this ability to
Speaker 3: have the essence of different individuals connect. Now, obviously you
Speaker 3: don't want certain private bits of information out there, things
Speaker 3: that you might find embarrassing and that sort of things,
Speaker 3: and that can be not only edited out, it could
Speaker 3: be in a sense deleted, but the sum total of
Speaker 3: your knowledge may be retained. And it's a sort of
Speaker 3: modern library of Alexandria that may this time wouldn't get destroyed.
Speaker 3: So that's the big picture of it. What we can
Speaker 3: do now that we're in different phases of life, Well,
Speaker 3: you have a local AI that reads all of your emails,
Speaker 3: that everything that's on your hard drive, any context it
Speaker 3: can get from you and start forming ideas and opinions. Now, again,
Speaker 3: the idea is to hold this down in a blockchain
Speaker 3: very similar to bitcoin, make it encrypted, very difficult to
Speaker 3: get access to even if you have all of the
Speaker 3: passwords and things of that nature. So it is completely
Speaker 3: private and safe, but of course perhaps still hackable. Everything
Speaker 3: electronic is, but you're taking great measures and at that
Speaker 3: point you can have a dialogue with your context. The
Speaker 3: things that you've experienced and the insights that you get
Speaker 3: from that are quite phenomenal. It's sort of research I've
Speaker 3: been doing to that level for over a decade. And
Speaker 3: the intelligence amplification you get from this is something that
Speaker 3: I would want every human being who wants it to
Speaker 3: have it. I think it will give you armor to
Speaker 3: protect you from the world that we're in and entering in,
Speaker 3: and the ability to sort through the information overload that
Speaker 3: every person in the modern world is facing at this point.
Speaker 3: And it's just scheduled to go up logarithmically as AI
Speaker 3: starts generating so much content. The bad thought AI will
Speaker 3: get to generating so much content, so much noise, that
Speaker 3: you're going to need not only to train yourself to
Speaker 3: higher and higher levels of discernment, but you're going to
Speaker 3: need an intelligence amplifier just to be able to wave
Speaker 3: through the world. So that's where it's kind of going,
Speaker 3: and that's the premise of it.
Speaker 2: So much of what has happened in the last what
Speaker 2: seems like three or four months this explosion chat GPT.
Speaker 2: It's a novelty. People view it as a novelty. They're
Speaker 2: asking philosophical questions, try to stump stump AI or you know,
Speaker 2: occasionally get an answer that's useful, or playing games. You know,
Speaker 2: something that you had predicted a long time ago that
Speaker 2: people would use it to create music. Yeah, I've seen.
Speaker 2: I've heard some Beatles songs that are pretty interesting over
Speaker 2: the last couple of months that sound a heck of
Speaker 2: a lot like the Beatles singing songs that they'd never recorded.
Speaker 2: It's are you encouraged by that.
Speaker 1: Part of it?
Speaker 3: I am? I am really bifurcated by this whole scenario.
Speaker 3: I really believe that you have to have the ownership
Speaker 3: of yourself, and I think we have to have a
Speaker 3: mature conversation not just among politicians and legal scholars, but
Speaker 3: across basically everybody. Do you own you? Do you own
Speaker 3: your DNA? Do you own your intestinal flora? Do you
Speaker 3: own your likeness, your voice, the creative output of your mind.
Speaker 3: If somebody ever were to be able to read your mind,
Speaker 3: is that your property? Right? I think we really need
Speaker 3: to have that discussion much sooner than any of the
Speaker 3: discussions that are taking place about AI as Terrible and
Speaker 3: the Matrix and things like that. That's that's number one.
Speaker 3: If that is in fact a case where we do
Speaker 3: have ownership, because if you don't own you, somebody else does.
Speaker 3: As as simple as that. And I think whenever this
Speaker 3: is a public discussion, that should be the period at
Speaker 3: the end of the sentence that you know any negotiation
Speaker 3: is coming down to that. And I think we know
Speaker 3: where that leads to. So I think that debate can
Speaker 3: be settled very quickly. So now when it comes to create,
Speaker 3: it works. If an artist owns their likeness and the
Speaker 3: style of their music and they are being it's being
Speaker 3: held out that it's here is a song the Beatles
Speaker 3: didn't do. I think we really need to sort of
Speaker 3: give that ownership back to the artist and whoever is
Speaker 3: owning their works at that point, if they've passed, certainly
Speaker 3: their family here or something at that level, I think
Speaker 3: we're in wild West City right now. So that side,
Speaker 3: I think we really have to go down that road
Speaker 3: as a culture and as a society and have a
Speaker 3: mature conversation. But as far as the creativity, it is fascinating.
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