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Speaker 1: Warning, this podcast could take spoilers for The Dark Night,

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Speaker 1: the film which we are discussing today and i'm seeing

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Speaker 1: as ault fifteen years old, but just in case you

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Speaker 1: haven't seen that this year, Happy birthday to Dark Knight

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Speaker 1: and also the Batman trilogy in general. We're probably gonna

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Speaker 1: spoil in a big way, so be warned. Hello. My

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Speaker 1: name is Jason Cactepsio and I'm Raisy Night, and welcome

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Speaker 1: next revision of the Crooked Podcast, where we dive deep

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Speaker 1: to your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture. And

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Speaker 1: we're so happy to be live from the serious XM

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Speaker 1: studio here in sunny Los Angeles.

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Speaker 2: Yes it was very sunny today actually, And in this episode,

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Speaker 2: we're gonna start with an interview with a guest that

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Speaker 2: we've had before who's rather wonderful, the Boy who Loved

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Speaker 2: Batman Batman franchise.

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Speaker 3: EP Michael Uslin.

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Speaker 2: He's going to be discussing the making of The Dark

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Speaker 2: Knight and its impact. Then we're gonna be talking about

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Speaker 2: The Dark Knight's fifteenth anniversary retrospective with Joel Monique and

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Speaker 2: Chaserado Marple, New York Times bestseller author. So it's just

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Speaker 2: gonna be good times, lots of Batman. If you don't

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Speaker 2: like Batman, says only today, it's a rad DC episode

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Speaker 2: in a significant way today and coming up next, Michael Uslin,

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Speaker 2: We are so thrilled to welcome back to X ray Vision, author,

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Speaker 2: comic book writer, and Batman executive producer, Michael Uslin.

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Speaker 1: Michael, welcome to the program. Oh there is there is

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Speaker 1: With just a few of his words, Michael welcome.

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Speaker 4: Hey, thanks a lot of guys.

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Speaker 3: It so nice to have you back. Thanks so much

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Speaker 3: for joining us.

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Speaker 4: How could I resist somebody like that, Neil.

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Speaker 3: That's the way to go. So yeah.

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Speaker 2: Fifteenth anniversary of The Dark Knight. How does it feel

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Speaker 2: fifteen years late to be kind of looking back on

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Speaker 2: what was such a game changing film?

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Speaker 4: I feel old. One of the most amazing things is

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Speaker 4: that I teach every year. I go back to Indiana

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Speaker 4: Universities Media School and I teach two courses on the

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Speaker 4: business of producing MOTI Pictures and experiential learning Live from Hollywood.

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Speaker 4: And it really is from the trenches that we have

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Speaker 4: these discussions. And one of the things that I found

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Speaker 4: is before I start teaching every year, I have to

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Speaker 4: do a little check and look at who my college

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Speaker 4: students are and at this point they are all born

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Speaker 4: after nine to eleven. They are basically too young to

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Speaker 4: have ever seen The Dark Knight trilogy on the movie theater.

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Speaker 4: Probably twenty five percent of them do not know who

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Speaker 4: Jack Nichols and was, and probably ten or fifteen percent

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Speaker 4: don't know from Heath Ledger. That's how fast things change.

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Speaker 4: That's how fast things move out of the public consciousness,

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Speaker 4: which is which is pretty amazing when you have to

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Speaker 4: continually change your cultural references as you're teaching. So that's

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Speaker 4: one of the most shocking things about in fifteen years,

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Speaker 4: what changes have taken place. But there's one change that

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Speaker 4: has not taken place, and that is the fact that

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Speaker 4: in my estimation, The Dark Knight may well be the

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Speaker 4: individual greatest not just comic book movie made. But and

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Speaker 4: this is the real difference, Chris Nolan, the genius that

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Speaker 4: he is, raised the bar for all comic book movies

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Speaker 4: because I believe for the first real time, when someone

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Speaker 4: was walking out of a Chris Nolan Batman movie such

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Speaker 4: as The Dark Knight, that at last they were able

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Speaker 4: to simply say that was a great film, and that

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Speaker 4: was a moment of elevation. No matter what Marty Score says,

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Speaker 4: he might say this moment of great elevation, and it

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Speaker 4: was pretty incredible. It was a turning point where I

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Speaker 4: believe Dark Knight should have at least been nominated for

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Speaker 4: Best Picture. I can make a really strong argument I

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Speaker 4: think why it should have won. But at that point

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Speaker 4: in time, when you consider who the membership of the

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Speaker 4: Academy was, there was basically no ay in hell they

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Speaker 4: were going to nominate.

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Speaker 1: They had all seen Gone with the Wind in theaters.

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Speaker 4: But as a result of the massive blowback they got,

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Speaker 4: they changed all the Academy rules. And now that's why

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Speaker 4: you get ten movies nominated at a time. That is

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Speaker 4: the direct repercussion of the Dark Knight O mission. Recently,

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Speaker 4: there were a couple of comments. One was by Steven

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Speaker 4: Spielberg who said Dark Knight may have been the best

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Speaker 4: movie of that year and absolutely should have been nominated,

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Speaker 4: if not a winner. And you had, oh I'm trying

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Speaker 4: to remember which DP it was who came out with

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Speaker 4: the statement that that year best Cinematography should have gone

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Speaker 4: to the Dark Knight. Thank you, And it's all very true.

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Speaker 4: It really is very true. So there were a lot

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Speaker 4: of things that changed as a result of Dark and

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Speaker 4: I always caution people, if you've not seen the Dark

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Speaker 4: Knight trilogy, please refrain from just finding somewhere on streaming

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Speaker 4: Dark Knight and watching it. Watch Batman Begins. Watch that first,

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Speaker 4: because that will enhance your enjoyment of Dark Knight by

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Speaker 4: at least forty.

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Speaker 1: That's the mathematical that's that's the mathematical mind. Yeah, I agree, and.

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Speaker 4: I think Batman Begins is certainly within striking distance of

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Speaker 4: the quality of Dark Knight as well, and they are

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Speaker 4: very highly compatible on a level of mastery of each

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Speaker 4: craft that goes into making a motion picture, so that

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Speaker 4: that's always been one of the things for me.

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Speaker 1: A quick note for all the kids out there, watch

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Speaker 1: the first movie in a series of movies. You should

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Speaker 1: do before you skip to any of the other films. Michael,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you, because it is such an incredible story,

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Speaker 1: if you could kind of summarize your involvement with Batman

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Speaker 1: on the big screen. How did you come to be

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Speaker 1: an EP of Batman films? Rit large.

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Speaker 4: Now we have to let everybody know I did not

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Speaker 4: pay you to ask me this question. We can't.

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Speaker 3: Don't you an OSKT like it's such a good story.

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Speaker 4: Because right now my mentor and friend stan Lee is

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Speaker 4: whispering in my ear called, great opportunity, go for the plug,

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Speaker 4: Go for the so that my whole story has been

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Speaker 4: recounted in my memoir The Boy Who Loved Batman, which

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Speaker 4: is available in trade paperback, and I had the pleasure

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Speaker 4: of narrating my own audiobook version for audible book of it.

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Speaker 4: And I am very very happy to announce to you

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Speaker 4: that The Boy who Loved Batman, my story of it,

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Speaker 4: based exactly on the question you ask, is to have

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Speaker 4: turned into a Broadway play.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 4: And it is the Neederlander Organization of New York, which

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Speaker 4: I was like half the Broadway theaters in New York.

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Speaker 4: And we are moving forward like faster than a speeding bullet.

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Speaker 4: We are headed toward a Broadway debut in due course.

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Speaker 4: And I couldn't be more excited about this. It is

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Speaker 4: a dream come true. And now to give you the

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Speaker 4: quick synopsis, said quick that means in less than three hours.

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Speaker 4: Number one, I am and I hope you guys can

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Speaker 4: relate to this total comic book geek. My mom's said,

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Speaker 4: I learned to read from comics before I was four

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Speaker 4: years old. I went to the first comic con ever

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Speaker 4: held on the planet Earth in decrepit Rundown Hotel in

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Speaker 4: Lower Manhattan. I was at that first costume parade, dressed

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Speaker 4: as the nineteen forty DC comics Sandman with the gas mask,

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Speaker 4: in a costume my mom helped me make. I like

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Speaker 4: to think maybe that was the birth that night of cosplay,

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Speaker 4: and it was an amazing place to be. It was

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Speaker 4: an amazing time. And while I was there, very few

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Speaker 4: pros came to the first comic con. They were afraid.

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Speaker 4: Stan Lee was petrified. He goes, you mean there's going

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Speaker 4: to be adults there that read comic books. They thought

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Speaker 4: they were going to be filled with psychopaths, social misfits,

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Speaker 4: and sociopaths. The only ones who had the nerve to

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Speaker 4: show up stan san is Secretary a flow Steinberg. She

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Speaker 4: was there, and Steve Vitko popped in briefly. And this

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Speaker 4: one guy who I was introduced to by my mentor

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Speaker 4: into the world of comic books, Auto Binder. Now, if

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Speaker 4: you don't know who Auto Bender was, you need to Auto.

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Speaker 4: In the nineteen forties created the Marvel Family. CO created

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Speaker 4: the Marvel Family, specifically created Mary Marvel Black Adam and

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Speaker 4: went on. After Captain Marvel was sued out of existence

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Speaker 4: by Superman, he went over to Mort Weisinger, who was

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Speaker 4: the editor of the Superman comics where Otto co created Supergirl, Brainiac, Crypto,

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Speaker 4: and the Legion of Superheroes. So he's a name worth knowing.

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Speaker 4: Otto said to me, So, boys, I was with my

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Speaker 4: friend Bobby. You're a thirteen. He said, are you going

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Speaker 4: to the costume masquerade tonight? Yeah? He goes, well, who

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Speaker 4: are you getting dressed up as? And Bobby said, I'm

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Speaker 4: going to go as the Shadow? And this guy next

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Speaker 4: to Auto goes, well, boys, you know the Shadow was

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Speaker 4: the number one influence on the creation of Batman. And

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Speaker 4: we said wow, we didn't know that. And with that

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Speaker 4: Auto turned to me and my friend Bobby and said, fellas,

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Speaker 4: how would you like to meet the creator of Batman?

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Speaker 4: And our jaws dropped. He said yeah, he said, Michael, Bobby,

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Speaker 4: meet Bill Finger. And that was the first of two

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Speaker 4: conversations I had with Bill Finger, who it took years

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Speaker 4: and years of hard work by Mark Tyler, Nobleman, Athena

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Speaker 4: Finger and a lot of people before we were all

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Speaker 4: able to work to get him credit as a co

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Speaker 4: creator of Batman, and I felt, having been I may

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Speaker 4: be the only person left standing who actually met and

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Speaker 4: talked with Bill Finger. And to see him get his

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Speaker 4: name up there is astounding. I mean, it's so important,

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Speaker 4: it really is. So what a way to start my convention.

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Speaker 4: By the time I was eighteen and graduating high school,

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Speaker 4: I had over thirty thousand comic books dating back to

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Speaker 4: nineteen thirty six, completely killing my dad's garage. He never

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Speaker 4: once got his car into the garage. And I was

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Speaker 4: always looking for a way to make comic books my

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Speaker 4: passion in life, my thing. How can I wind up

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Speaker 4: working in the comic book business? What can I do?

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Speaker 4: And I was always looking away to get for me

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Speaker 4: to get my foot in the door. So I'm at

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Speaker 4: Indiana University and I'm beginning my junior year, and they

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Speaker 4: started an experimental Curriculum department, and they said, anybody, including undergrads,

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Speaker 4: if you have an idea for a college course that

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Speaker 4: has never been taught before, I could get the backing

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Speaker 4: of a department on campus. You then would have a

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Speaker 4: right to appear before a panel of deans and professors

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Speaker 4: and pitch your course. If the dean approves it, you

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Speaker 4: can teach it on campus for up to three hours

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Speaker 4: of credit. And I thought, oh my god. You know,

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Speaker 4: nowhere on the planet Earth has anyone ever had a

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Speaker 4: college course on comic books. But why not? Comic books

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Speaker 4: are legitimate American art form, as indigenous to this country

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Speaker 4: as jazz. Comic book superheroes are a modern day mythology.

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Speaker 4: It's contemporary folklore. And I went to the folklore department

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Speaker 4: and spoke to one of my folklore professors, and I said,

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Speaker 4: the professor, the Greeks called them Hermes, the Romans called

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Speaker 4: the mercury. I call them the Flash. Greeks called them Poseidon.

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Speaker 4: The Romans called them Neptune. I call them aculemen. And

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Speaker 4: he said, Michael, you know you're really right. These comic

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Speaker 4: book superhero stories are the same stories from ancient folklore.

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Speaker 4: It's about braves battling the deepons and dragons of their day.

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Speaker 4: I will back you. So armed with that, I went

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Speaker 4: before the Dean the first pitch of my life. I

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Speaker 4: was wearing a Spiderman T shirt and a bunch of

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Speaker 4: comic books under my arm. I walk in the door

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Speaker 4: of this room and the Dean looks at me from

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Speaker 4: across his conference room table, and he says, so you're

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Speaker 4: the fella who wants to teach a course on funny

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Speaker 4: books at my university. I knew I was in deep trouble.

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Speaker 4: I then launch into my pitch. He lets me speak

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Speaker 4: for two minutes and cuts me off. He said, mister, please,

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Speaker 4: he said, stop, He goes, Look. I read comic books

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Speaker 4: when I was a little boy. I read every issue

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Speaker 4: with Superman I could get my hands on. But all

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Speaker 4: comic books are are cheap entertainment for little children, nothing more,

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Speaker 4: nothing less. I reject your theory. This, folks, was a

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Speaker 4: life changing moment for me, because I could have babbed

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Speaker 4: my head being rejected and picked up my funny books

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Speaker 4: and turned around and walked out of the room, but instead,

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Speaker 4: figuring I have absolutely nothing to lose, I stood my

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Speaker 4: ground and I said, may I ask you two questions?

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Speaker 4: He said, ask me anything you want. I said, are

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Speaker 4: you familiar with the story of Moses? And he looked

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Speaker 4: at me like I was out of my mind. He

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Speaker 4: said yeah, So I said, so, Dean, could you, very

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Speaker 4: very briefly just summarize for me the story of Moses?

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Speaker 4: And with that he sat back in his chairy folded

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Speaker 4: his arms. He goes, mister Uselin, I don't know what

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Speaker 4: game you're playing here, but I'll play this with you.

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Speaker 4: The Hebrew people were being persecuted. They're first born were

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Speaker 4: being slain. So a Hebrew couple placed their infant son

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Speaker 4: in a little wicker basket and send them down the

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Speaker 4: River Nile. There he's discovered by an Egyptian family who

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Speaker 4: raised him as their own son. When he grows up

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Speaker 4: and learns of his true heritage, he becomes a great

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Speaker 4: hero to his people. I said, stop, that was great,

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much, I said, Dean before you said

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Speaker 4: you read Superman comics when you were a kid, as

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Speaker 4: to remember the origin of Superman, he said, of course.

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Speaker 4: The planet Krypton was about to blow up. A scientist

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Speaker 4: and his wife placed their infant son in a little

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Speaker 4: rocket ship and for Earth. There he's discovered by the Kents,

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Speaker 4: who raised him as their own son. When he grows up,

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Speaker 4: and then he stops, stares at me for what I

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Speaker 4: swear to you was an eternity, he says, your course

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Speaker 4: is a credited I am now the world's first college

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Speaker 4: professor of comic books, and that was amazing. Step one,

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Speaker 4: Step two took place. One hour later. I got back

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Speaker 4: to my apartment. I was so excited. I called my

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Speaker 4: mommy in New Jersey, and my mom said, oh, Michael,

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Speaker 4: this is really, really great. He goes, you know, if

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Speaker 4: you don't market your work, if you don't market yourself,

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Speaker 4: nobody will ever know about any of your creative wares.

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Speaker 4: I said, ma, I just turned twenty. I'm in Bloomington, Indiana.

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Speaker 4: I have no money. What am I supposed to do

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Speaker 4: about marketing myself? She says, you're a smart boy, you'll

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Speaker 4: think of something. So figuring. I had absolutely nothing to lose.

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Speaker 4: I picked up the phone and I called United Press International,

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Speaker 4: which back then was as big a new syndicate as

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Speaker 4: Associated Presses today. I asked to speak to a reporter.

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Speaker 4: This man gets on the phone and I start to

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Speaker 4: scream at him.

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Speaker 5: I said, what's wrong with you? You're not doing your job.

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Speaker 5: You're supposed to be the watchdogs of US society. This

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Speaker 5: is outrageous. He said, calm down, sir, what are you

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Speaker 5: talking about? What am I talking about?

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Speaker 4: Are you kidding me? I just heard there's a course

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Speaker 4: on comic books you do universal? Are you telling me?

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Speaker 4: As a taxpayer in the state they're using my money

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Speaker 4: to teach our kids comic books. I said, this has

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Speaker 4: got to be some communist plot to subvert the beep

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Speaker 4: of America, and I slammed down the phone. It took

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Speaker 4: this by three days to find out if I you

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Speaker 4: really had a course like this, and if so, who

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Speaker 4: is teaching it. He shows up at my doorstep with

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Speaker 4: a photographer interviews me. The interview goes out. It's a

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Speaker 4: third of a page long. It's picked up by virtually

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Speaker 4: every newspaper in North America, a bunch in Europe. My

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Speaker 4: phone starts ringing and never stops. I'm invited on radio

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Speaker 4: and TV talk shows. Every class I teach is filled

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Speaker 4: with television cameras and reporters. Two weeks go by and

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Speaker 4: I get two interesting phone calls. The first one it's

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Speaker 4: an exuberant male voice. Hi is this Mike Uselin? Yeah,

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Speaker 4: Hi Mike, this is Stan Lee from Marvel Comics in

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Speaker 4: New York City. And that is my burning Bush moment,

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Speaker 4: because I was talking to my god. I couldn't believe it.

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Speaker 4: And Stan says, Mike, everywhere, Look, I'm seeing you on TV.

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Speaker 4: I'm listening to you on the radio. What you're doing

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Speaker 4: is great for the whole comic book industry. How can

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Speaker 4: I help you? That's the day stan Lee turned from

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Speaker 4: my items, my mentor, and ultimately to my friend. Two

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Speaker 4: hours later, another call, mister euseland my name is Saal Harrison.

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Speaker 4: I'm vice president of DC Comics in New York. We've

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Speaker 4: been reading about you in newspapers and magazines. We think

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Speaker 4: you're a very innovative young man. We'd like to fly

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Speaker 4: at in New York City and talk about ways we

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Speaker 4: might be able to work together. Holy you fill in

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Speaker 4: the blank, comic book geek dream come true. I'm offered

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Speaker 4: a job at DC Comics. I can work there in

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Speaker 4: the summers and they'll put me on retainer while I'm

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Speaker 4: back at Indiana finishing up. Can't believe it? Hey, am

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Speaker 4: I going on too long?

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Speaker 3: Nice?

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Speaker 1: Great story.

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Speaker 6: It's a great story.

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Speaker 3: Being at Day you can't stop now.

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Speaker 2: Being at DC is it's a direct line to becoming

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Speaker 2: dark Night rather than.

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Speaker 1: As X ray Vision will be back and we're back.

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Speaker 4: So my first day, it's like almost six o'clock and

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Speaker 4: time to go home. Time to head back to New Jersey.

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Speaker 4: When I hear yelling and screaming coming from down the

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Speaker 4: editor's hallway. I go, it sounds like somebody's being murdered.

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Speaker 4: I go running down there. It was Denny O'Neil, one

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Speaker 4: of the great editors and one of the greatest greatest

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Speaker 4: writers in the history of comics. And at that time, Denny,

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Speaker 4: you might recall, was editing one comic book that I

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Speaker 4: was in love with, the Shadow that my colluta drew.

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Speaker 4: It was amazing. So I go, Denny, are you all right?

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Speaker 4: He goes, no, I'm not all right. I go, what's

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Speaker 4: the matter? He goes they had canceled the Shadow due

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Speaker 4: to poor sales. They just got to report in that

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Speaker 4: the latest issues spiked in sales, so they uncanceled it

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Speaker 4: and still have me on the same production schedule, which

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Speaker 4: means I must have a script in by the end

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Speaker 4: of the day tomorrow in order to meet the printing schedule.

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Speaker 4: I said, is that bad? He say? He says, I

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Speaker 4: don't have a shadow script. He said, Michael, I don't

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Speaker 4: have a shadow story. I don't even have an idea

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Speaker 4: for a shadow story. I raised my hand. I go, Denny,

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Speaker 4: I have an idea for a shadow story. He said,

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Speaker 4: you do. I didn't. But so what I saw that

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Speaker 4: door open that little crack and I just shoved my

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Speaker 4: foot in. So they said, come in, come in, sit down.

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Speaker 4: What's your idea for a show shadow story? The wheels

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Speaker 4: are turning, you know, I just got back from Niagara

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00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 4: Falls with my girlfriend and all the you know, the

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00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,239
Speaker 4: shadow stories were set in the thirties and forties, and

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Speaker 4: back then at Niagara Falls, people were walking across the

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Speaker 4: falls on a type rope and they were going over

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Speaker 4: the falls and barrels. I said, so picture this late

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Speaker 4: at night, tightrope over Niagara Falls. Searchlight's going the shadows

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Speaker 4: battling a villain on that type rope over the falls.

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Speaker 4: He said, that's a great visual. That'll make a great cover.

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Speaker 4: But Michael, what's the story about? I said, oh, well,

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Speaker 4: I was just about to tell you the story is

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Speaker 4: about smuggling. What are they smuggling? Well, Danny, they are

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Speaker 4: smuggling drugs. He goes, well, Michael, every story has to

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Speaker 4: have a creative take to of them. What's going to

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Speaker 4: be creative that makes this different than any other smuggling story.

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Speaker 4: I said, I'm so glad you asked me that, Denny,

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Speaker 4: because this is the best part and I've been saving

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Speaker 4: it for last You know they were going over the

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Speaker 4: falls back then in barrels, false bottoms. In the barrels

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Speaker 4: they're putting the drugs in that they go over the

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Speaker 4: Canadian side, they wash up onto the American side. That's

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Speaker 4: how they're getting it through. He said, Now that's creative.

360
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Speaker 4: I like that. He said, can you have a full

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Speaker 4: script on my desk tomorrow night at six o'clock. I said,

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Speaker 4: not a problem, He said, go do it. I'm now

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Speaker 4: a writer for DC Comics. I turned in the script

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Speaker 4: that next day at six o'clock. I pulled an all nighter,

365
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Speaker 4: and two weeks later, I'm walking down the editor's hallway

366
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Speaker 4: and Who's coming toward me? By Julius Schwartz Julie Schwartz

367
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Speaker 4: arguably the most important editor in the history of comics,

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Speaker 4: who was responsible for everyone knows returning Batman to his

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Speaker 4: darker roots after the TV show went off the air,

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Speaker 4: bringing in Denny O'Neill and Neil Adams to do the job,

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Speaker 4: and Nerve nodded Julie Schwartz, who gave us the Silver

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Speaker 4: Age Flash Green Lantern, Justice League, Hawkman Adam list goes

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Speaker 4: on and on, and Julie was a gruff guy once

374
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Speaker 4: he got to know he was a marshmallow, but he

375
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Speaker 4: could be gruff. So he sees me coming down the hall.

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Speaker 4: He goes, hey kid, I go, yes, Julie, I read

377
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Speaker 4: your shadow script. You did. Yeah, it didn't stink. WHOA,

378
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Speaker 4: thank you? Thank you so much, he said, had you

379
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Speaker 4: like to take a shot at writing Batman? Oh my god,

380
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Speaker 4: I still get the chills. It was a dream I

381
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Speaker 4: had since I was eight years old, because when I

382
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 4: was eight, I was the boy who loved Batman more

383
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Speaker 4: than any other superhero, primarily because of several things. Number one,

384
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Speaker 4: he had the most primal origin you could imagine. Number two,

385
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Speaker 4: he had the coolest car in the world. Number three,

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Speaker 4: he had the greatest villains. But most importantly, he had

387
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Speaker 4: no superpowers. In my heart of hearts, when I was

388
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 4: eight years old, I totally believed that if I worked

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Speaker 4: out really hard, my dad bought me a cool car,

390
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 4: I could be this guy. My dream was to someday

391
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Speaker 4: write Batman comics, and now it had come true. When

392
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Speaker 4: my first issue with Detective Comics came out through the tears, Admittedly,

393
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 4: I panicked. I said, oh my god, I've had this

394
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 4: dream since I was eight. I don't have a dream anymore.

395
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Speaker 4: I need a new dream. It took ten minutes for

396
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Speaker 4: the epiphany. I remembered back to a cold night in

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Speaker 4: January nineteen sixty six. It was a night I was

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Speaker 4: a teenager. I had been waiting for for months. It

399
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 4: was the debut of the Batman TV series. I turn

400
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 4: it on. Oh, look at that cool animation. It kind

401
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 4: of looks like Bob k and Jerry Robinson art. Oh

402
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 4: it's in color. Oh, they're spending a lot of money

403
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 4: on the sets. Wow, the Batmobile looks cool. Twenty minutes in,

404
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 4: it hits me, Oh my god, this is a comedy.

405
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 4: They've made a joke out of Batman. The whole world

406
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 4: is laughing at Batman. And that just killed me as

407
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 4: a fanboy, especially one who had already met Bill Finger

408
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 4: and was told personally how Batman was created on what

409
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 4: he was supposed to be, which was a Dark Night

410
00:26:55,040 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 4: actually originally a Dark Knight detective, and not this campy

411
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 4: pot belly powsapp wham interpretation doing the Battusie. So that

412
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 4: night downstairs at my den, I made a vow. I

413
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 4: made a vow like young Bruce Wayne Wants made yeah.

414
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: Excess, he made see similar serious circumstances, a.

415
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 4: Serious circumstances, But he made his vow over the slaughtered

416
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 4: bodies of his parents, and my parents were safe in

417
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 4: the kitchen. But I said, somehow, someday I am going

418
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 4: to show the world the true Batman. The Batman and

419
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 4: they created in nineteen thirty nine is a creature of

420
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Speaker 4: the Knight who stalks deeply disturbed villains in the shadows.

421
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 4: And I will find a way to remove from the

422
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 4: world culture these three new words, powsapp and wham. But

423
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 4: what do you do when you're a blue collar kid

424
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 4: from Jersey. You don't come from money. You can't buy

425
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 4: your way into Hollywood. My pop was a Stonemason, My

426
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 4: mom was a bookkeeper, know anybody in Hollywood? I had

427
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 4: no relatives in Hollywood? So how do you get there

428
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 4: from her? How do you jump the Grand Canyon? And

429
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 4: that was the dilemma. So what happened was I went

430
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 4: back to saw Harrison one day and I said, so,

431
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 4: I want to buy the rights to Batman. And he said, Michael,

432
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 4: don't even talk to me about this. If you're interested

433
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 4: in buying movie rights, you got to have credentials. Go

434
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 4: get credentials. So I finished law school and I wound

435
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 4: up going to work immediately for United Artists when it

436
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 4: was a major motion picture company, and there the lawyers

437
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 4: were put in charge of all the legal, business and

438
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 4: financial aspects of movies as they were being developed. And

439
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 4: over a period of just under four years, I was

440
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 4: put in charge of the first three Rocky movies, a

441
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 4: beautiful movie called Black Stallion, one of the best movies

442
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 4: ever made called Raging Bull, and for two and a

443
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 4: half years of my life, Apocalypse and Ow which was

444
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 4: as every single He said, I was getting the experience

445
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 4: of eleven movies just working out, and we can do

446
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 4: two hours or three hours on that alone. And then

447
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 4: I went back to Saul Harrison, who now was not

448
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 4: vice president, he was now president of DC Comics. I said, Saul,

449
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 4: I have the credentials. I want to go out to

450
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 4: Hollywood and make dark and serious Batman movies, and I

451
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 4: want to buy the rights of Batman. So Saul looked

452
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 4: at me. He was the very father of me. Toward me,

453
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 4: you know, he had been towarded me into the comic

454
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 4: book business, and he knew how serious and devoted I

455
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 4: was to all of this. He looked like the poster

456
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 4: from the movie Home Alone. He said, Michael, for God's sake,

457
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 4: don't do this. He said, son, don't you understand that

458
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 4: when Batman went off the air on TV, the brand

459
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 4: became as dead as a dodo. That's a quote. He said, Michael,

460
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 4: nobody's interested in Batman anymore. I don't want to see

461
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 4: you lose on your money. I said, yeah, but nobody's

462
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 4: ever seen a dark and serious comic book superhero movie before.

463
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 4: This is gonna be like a new form of entertainment.

464
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 4: He said. Is there any way I can tunk you

465
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 4: out of this? I said no. He said, all right, Schmusel,

466
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 4: come on in. That began a six month negotiation. Gave

467
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 4: me time to find a partner who was my dad's age,

468
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 4: Ben Melniker, who was a legend in Hollywood. He was

469
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 4: one of the guys running MGM in its Tiffany years.

470
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 4: Ben put together the deals for Ben Hurd, Doctor Shivago

471
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 4: two thousand and one is Space Odyssey, Gigi, and these musicals,

472
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 4: and it gave us time to raise money privately. On

473
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 4: October third, nineteen seventy nine, I paid the money, signed

474
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 4: the contract, bought the rights to Batman, put it in

475
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 4: my back pocket and went out to Hollywood. I said,

476
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 4: this can't miss. This is gonna be a slam dunk.

477
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 4: How can anybody not see the potential for sequels, animation, toys, games,

478
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 4: It's gonna be easy. I was turned down by every

479
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 4: single studio and mini major in Hollywood. I was told

480
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 4: it was the worst idea they ever heard it. I

481
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 4: was told I was crazy. You said, Michael, you can't

482
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 4: do serious comic book book. It can't do dark superheroes.

483
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 4: Nobody's ever taken a TV show and turned it into

484
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 4: a movie before. It can't be done. As a result

485
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 4: of that, from the time I bought the rights to

486
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 4: Batman till we finally were able to get the first

487
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 4: Batman movie made took ten years, ten years of rejection,

488
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 4: ten years of everyone telling you you suck, and let

489
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 4: me tell you something. You know, when that happens, you

490
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 4: got to look deep inside yourself. It tests your metal

491
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 4: as a human being. You got to go, Okay, is

492
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 4: everybody right and I'm just being stubborn? Or do I

493
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 4: absolutely truly believe in this and in myself? And I

494
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 4: kept coming up with the latter answer. It would not

495
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 4: be until nineteen eighty six seven years in when this

496
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 4: amazing young genius coming out of Disney Animation came into

497
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 4: our lives. After doing a little short called Frank and Weeny,

498
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,479
Speaker 4: and I got a call from one of the execs,

499
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 4: Warner Brothers. I said, you got to see this. We're

500
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 4: setting up a screening. This kid's done a movie for us.

501
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 4: We have a fine cut we want you to see.

502
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 4: It's called Pee Wee's Big Adventure. So I went in

503
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 4: to see it. I came out and I said, my god,

504
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 4: I've never seen a more creative marriage of direction and

505
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 4: art direction in my life. I'd love to meet this guy.

506
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 4: So they set up three lunches with me and Tim,

507
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 4: and they said, your job is going to be to

508
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 4: indoctrinate into the world of Batman the right way. So

509
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 4: I met with him. I brought from my collection either

510
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 4: the actual comics or prints the Detective twenty seven through

511
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 4: thirty eight, from First Batman, Origin of Batman, Origin of

512
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 4: Robin Batman number one, First Joker, and Catwoman. Then I

513
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 4: brought in the Danny O'Neill, Neil Adams Run, and then

514
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 4: I gave them the Steve Engelhart Marshall Rogers Run. And

515
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 4: I kept him away from Zebra Batman, Robot Batman, from

516
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 4: Jeanie Batman and all the crazy stuff. And by the

517
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 4: end of those three lunches, I knew this was the

518
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 4: guy who could do it, and so did Warner Brothers

519
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 4: and everybody associated with the picture. And that's what changed

520
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 4: the time. And the last point about getting to the

521
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 4: the first Batman movie was that it was we had two,

522
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 4: arguably others, but two real genius is Tim Burton and

523
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 4: Anton First. Tom First was my dear friend, our production designer,

524
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 4: who won the Oscar for designing Gotham City, the Batmobile,

525
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 4: the whole look of a picture. But it was Tim

526
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 4: Burton who came up with something I always called the

527
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 4: big idea. Why don't I call it the big idea?

528
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 4: Because this idea of his changed Hollywood forever, changed the

529
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 4: comic book industry and changed the world culture's perception of

530
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 4: comic books and superheroes. He said, Michael, if we are

531
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 4: going to do the first ever serious superhero comic book movie,

532
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 4: this movie cannot be about Batman. And at that moment

533
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 4: I think I just melted into the ground. I go,

534
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 4: what are you talking about? He says, Michael, This movie

535
00:34:50,520 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 4: has to be about Bruce Wayne ah epiphany that's changed everything.

536
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 4: We had to get audiences to believe in Bruce Wayne,

537
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 4: and his corollary to that was from the opening frames

538
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 4: of the movie. We must get the audiences to suspend

539
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 4: their disbelief and believe in Gotham City. Gotham City is

540
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 4: the third most important character in this movie and only

541
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 4: if they believe in Gotham City will they be able

542
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,760
Speaker 4: to believe a guy getting dressed up as a bat

543
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 4: if he looks like the Joker. And he was absolutely

544
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 4: right now the repercussions of that. Stan was the first

545
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 4: one to admit it, and I know Kevin Feigy would also.

546
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 4: That big idea is what opened the door for the

547
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 4: Marvel cinematic universe. We've all been to see the Iron

548
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 4: Man movies come on in truth, shouldn't they be titled

549
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 4: Tony Stark? Shouldn't the Spider Man movies really be Peter Parker.

550
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 4: It's been the whole key to everything, and that is

551
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 4: the genius of Burden that got us to our first picture.

552
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 4: And then there was the In and then there was

553
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 4: Christopher Nolan.

554
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, like me.

555
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 4: To skip the middle part.

556
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 2: You can listen to our other Michael's an episode if

557
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 2: you want to find out what happened in between.

558
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: Mike, unfortunately we are we have we have room all

559
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: the time the time. But thank you so much for

560
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: for outlining your incredible involvement in what has become really

561
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 1: one of the pillars of pop culture.

562
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, these movies don't exist without your passion

563
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 2: for them. So we always love to chat to you

564
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 2: and hear kind of the.

565
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 4: I so appreciate you folks very very much because you're

566
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 4: schooled in this, you love this, and I love talking

567
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 4: to people who we're all on the same page. So

568
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 4: I have to admit to you this whole thing has

569
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 4: been a setup where I hogged all the time. So

570
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,959
Speaker 4: you would invite me back for a second.

571
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 3: Time, we will do it. The Christopher Nolan era isn't.

572
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, Mike, Thank you so much.

573
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 3: Mike, have a lovely evening.

574
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 4: Thanks so much. Take care.

575
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: The great Michael Yusland And now please welcome to the stage,

576
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 1: John how Many hoodcast producer.

577
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 3: Extraordinary Cultcha phenom.

578
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: And please welcome to the screens. Here on either side

579
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: of the studio, h Chase Shay.

580
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 3: Jason is showing up.

581
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: What a wonderful conversation.

582
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 2: He's always such a joy. You just you could just

583
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 2: ask him, just be like, tell us about.

584
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: Batman, and I would be so much less gracious.

585
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 3: I was right, not just once, but like this man.

586
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 2: It wasn't just like you know, Burton untested Keaton. Everyone

587
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 2: was angry about that casting. Then you get to Christopher Nolan,

588
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 2: who'd made three movies before Batman begins, and again he

589
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 2: gets to see it in a totally different way. This

590
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 2: kind of dream of like a serious I mean obviously,

591
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 2: like much more serious than even eighty nine. So yeah,

592
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 2: you're right, he's he's very gracious and humble about those

593
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 2: achievements when Batman's like, imagine somebody wants telling you, like Batman,

594
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 2: the brand is dead, the brand is dead.

595
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 3: As a dodo, And now it's like Batman is.

596
00:38:55,160 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: The named I'd be mentioning them by name and every like.

597
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 2: So I heard people don't like Batman. Batman is so successful.

598
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know this. This is a

599
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 2: fun fact that I like to Batman is so successful

600
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 2: that for a very long time, if you worked in

601
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 2: a comic book shop or if you made comics, they

602
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 2: only did sales numbers by the percentage of what you

603
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 2: sold compared to what Batman sold.

604
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:21,720
Speaker 3: There was no numbers.

605
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 2: They would say, Batman sold one hundred and fifty thousand

606
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: copies this week, and you sold thirty percent of Batman.

607
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 3: That was actually how Diamond used to do. It's like

608
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 3: a legendary story.

609
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 2: That's how unbelievably popular Batman has been, not just in

610
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 2: like movies, but also in the comic book market. I

611
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 2: mean for a decade plus that was the book that

612
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 2: you measured or sales by.

613
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: It is surprising as well that people were so dismissive

614
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: considering that, you know, three, four or five popular Superman

615
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: movies had happened.

616
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 3: I know, and also those movies are not particularly like.

617
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: Oh look at you.

618
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 7: No, oh oh, that's my multiple and New York Times

619
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 7: bestselling author.

620
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

621
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: I will now introduce a multiple time New York Times

622
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 1: bestselling author, creator of The Primo, the critically acclaimed Primo

623
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 1: program on Amazon freeby Chase Rna Shay.

624
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 8: Welcome to the program, hey, and today we are talking

625
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 8: about The Dark Knight on its fifteenth anniversaries, directed by

626
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 8: Chris Nolan, starring Christian Bale, Heath Ledger, Aaron Hackhart, Michael Caine, Maggie,

627
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 8: Jillen Hall, Gary Oldman, Morgan Freeman, and Moore.

628
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: Some quick facts about The Dark Knight. This is the

629
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: first use of IMAX cameras. The Dark Knight is in

630
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 1: a major feature film not featuring penguins.

631
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 3: Like t Rex is. Oh, you know, Imax.

632
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: The casting maybe not surprising. I think people probably remember

633
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: this and also understanding the tenor of the internet, probably

634
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: this feels right. But Heath Ledger. The casting of Heath

635
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: Ledger as the Joker was widely reviled early in the

636
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: process when it was announced. This movie also featured a

637
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: wildly successful viral marketing.

638
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 3: Campaign, one of the first of its kind that makes.

639
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: An arg as they call it. I think that it

640
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: might have been the second one. I think the first

641
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: one I remember was for Halo two. I love bees

642
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: anybody out there gamer fans. It was the first comic

643
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 1: book movie to break one billion. Now that's just a

644
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: BILLI and the box office a yard, as they say

645
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: on the street, and as is that what they say?

646
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, definitely and as and as Michael Yuslin noted in

647
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 9: his summary, the the lack of nominations for The Dark

648
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 9: Knight certainly contributed to the Academy's decision to increase the

649
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 9: amount of nominees for their awards.

650
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 1: That is a Dark Knight, folks, Let's go around. When

651
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: was what's everybody's first memory of seeing the Dark Knight.

652
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: We'll start with you, she since you're joining us last.

653
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 10: Uh.

654
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 11: Well, I'm a little thrown off here when you text

655
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 11: me and said, hey, do you want to be on

656
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 11: the show. You didn't say Dark Knight. You said we're

657
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 11: doing the second Batman, So you just came prepared to

658
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 11: talk about Batman returns a.

659
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 2: Week and week and well, first of all, five good

660
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 2: facts about time.

661
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 3: Let's start.

662
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: Let me start with one thing first. First of all,

663
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: absolutely happy to pivot to Batman's nice too. As always,

664
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: Chase Rono is lying about me. I am very happy

665
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 1: to show this entire studio audience and everybody's three my

666
00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: text with Chaseto, who continues to about me two wide

667
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 1: audiences around.

668
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 11: That's my favorite running bit. It started years and years ago. Yeah,

669
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 11: like when Jason and I first became buddies that I

670
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 11: just started lying about whatever he would tell me. And

671
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 11: at that and at the time between the two of us,

672
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 11: there was like eighty people who would see the lies,

673
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 11: and now it's like half a million people.

674
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 10: It's a horrible, horrible, horrible joke.

675
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 11: When when The Dark Knight came out, I mean Batman

676
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,839
Speaker 11: beginns had already come and everybody loved it. We saw

677
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 11: that one in the theater. I say, we am talking

678
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 11: about Laramie, my wife. We were living in Houston at

679
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 11: the time, so when The Dark Knight was coming, I

680
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,919
Speaker 11: was super into it immediately. I think, like especially once

681
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 11: the trailer hit and you're like, oh fuck, what are

682
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 11: we look? What are we looking at right here? Like

683
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 11: this is it just looked so cool and it was

684
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 11: again it was like an advancement of what they had done.

685
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,399
Speaker 11: And Batman begins from my eyes anyways, which was take

686
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 11: like this really cool idea and turn it somehow even

687
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 11: cooler and make it feel even a little more real

688
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 11: and a little more.

689
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 10: Devastating. There's probably a good word.

690
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 11: Like when you watch it and you hear the music,

691
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 11: it's just like there's there's terror around every corner, is

692
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 11: what it feels like. And it was just so exciting

693
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 11: to watch us so much fun. Heath Ledger puts on

694
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 11: a fucking fireworks show immediately it's great.

695
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:33,720
Speaker 10: It's so great.

696
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 12: Well, yeah, So in two thousand and eight, I was

697
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 12: a senior in high school.

698
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 6: Working at a movie theater.

699
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 12: If I've never told you my Batman origin story, my

700
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 12: very first memory is watching Batman the Animated series with

701
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 12: my dad on the couch. So Batman's like deeply ingrained

702
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 12: into my personality. I watched Batman the Animated Series like

703
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 12: religiously back when it was on Fox, and then when

704
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 12: it came to Cartoon Network on rerun. I lived there,

705
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 12: and so, you know, having seen all the previous Batman

706
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 12: movies and watching them a lot, we had all of

707
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,240
Speaker 12: them on VHS. I was thrilled when we got Batman

708
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 12: Begins and I was like, it's dark and scary.

709
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 10: What that's amazing?

710
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 12: I was thrilled. Rewatching it was crazy, like scarecrows in

711
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 12: there for like fifteen minutes, maths probably closer to eight.

712
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 12: It was insane how little he's in there, but the

713
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 12: impact he has. So when we came to this film,

714
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 12: I was studying theater and I was going to be

715
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 12: a very serious actress, and Heath Ledger's performance was just

716
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 12: I mean, it's all we could talk about. Like my

717
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 12: drama teacher and I would just sit and talk for

718
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 12: hours about like, what was that thing he did with

719
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 12: his mouth. That's before we realized it was because the

720
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 12: probthetics were coming out. We're like, he's being a snake,

721
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 12: Like he studies writing to go.

722
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: And he thought he was such an incredible mess that

723
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: he like scarred his face.

724
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 12: Maybe there was that he was doing it, so they

725
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 12: was down. Yeah, I was like, okay, because actors will

726
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 12: study an animal and like try to the animal.

727
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,760
Speaker 6: I was like, snakes, that's what he's doing. It's brilliant.

728
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 12: And then yeah, so it became an obsession rather quickly.

729
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 12: I think I saw it maybe five times in theaters.

730
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,439
Speaker 6: I loved this movie. It was so much fun.

731
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad you guys have great memories watching

732
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 2: this movie, because it's not.

733
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 3: I had a bad memory.

734
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 2: But I went to see it at a cinema that

735
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 2: was now like an award winning cinemoni s London called Genesis.

736
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 2: But when I went see it in two thousand and eight,

737
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 2: the screen was so fucked up that it was like

738
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 2: it looked like it was the size of one of.

739
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 3: These zoom screens, and I just I think we just

740
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 3: sat through it like that's the wildest day.

741
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 1: I think.

742
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 3: We went downstairs, were like pot a hot dog and

743
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:50,320
Speaker 3: we were.

744
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 2: Like, I don't think the projectors work in and they

745
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: were like, okay, I guess because my memory of it

746
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 2: is just on this. So I didn't see it in

747
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 2: the cinema in that same big way, but I I

748
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 2: am the same. It's all about Heath Ledger and I

749
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 2: can't believe we never talked about it. My first ever

750
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 2: memory is watching Batman eighty nine on TV at Christmas

751
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 2: in England. They were showing at Christmas and I was

752
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 2: in my uncle's house. But yeah, I remember just Heath

753
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 2: Ledger was really the big thing, and obviously he died

754
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 2: before the movie came out, so there was like this

755
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 2: huge feeling of wanting to see it and trying to

756
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 2: remember him and work out people, you know, wanted to

757
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 2: work out how the performance affected his life. From what

758
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 2: everyone said, he just loved doing it and it was

759
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 2: like a lot of fun. It actually wasn't this kind

760
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 2: of bumba thing. But yeah, I think Heath's performance is

761
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 2: really the thing that I always take away from it,

762
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 2: and also the practical effects.

763
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 3: I think about them a lot. I think about that

764
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 3: I remember, you know, the IMAX opening.

765
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 2: I think that is like the big thing that the

766
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 2: Jokers tricked everyone into killing each other. That's like a

767
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 2: super chaotic moment. You get that great payoff with the

768
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 2: bus where he's like, no, I meant to kill the

769
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 2: bus driver and the guy's like what fuck the.

770
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 3: Bus and then the bus just runs him over.

771
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 2: Like so, I think that those are definitely my resounding

772
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 2: kind of early memories.

773
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: I am well huge comic book nerd obviously, but I

774
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,839
Speaker 1: remember I remember if Batman Begins. I was working as

775
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 1: a cater waiter at that time, and we were doing

776
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: an event at the Philadelphia Museum. So they bust us

777
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: in from Manhattan, and I remember sitting across from one

778
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: of the waiters who was just saying, have you seen

779
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: Batman Begins? He was like, dude, you gotta fucking see it.

780
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: This is what Batman should have. It was like Michael

781
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 1: Uslin's son or something. This guy was like, so, and

782
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: I was planning on seeing it, you know, but like

783
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: money was tight and I was working, and so I

784
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:43,359
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I gotta go see it. I saw

785
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: it in the theater. I loved it, and so I

786
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: was very very hyped for The Dark Knight and uh

787
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: this is I don't know how many people remember this,

788
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: but uh, the they showed the Imax prologue, you know,

789
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 1: the heist prologue, the Joker Heist as like a trailer

790
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: in theaters, but then it got leaked to the internet

791
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 1: illegally right by a can't like I think someone you

792
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,280
Speaker 1: know filmed the screen and then put it on the internet.

793
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 1: And so I that's how I first watched The Dark

794
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 1: Knight is I downloaded the LimeWire of the of the

795
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: leaked camp and just like very blurrily and like two

796
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,439
Speaker 1: eightyp watch that and was like I'm all the way,

797
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm in by all the way fucking

798
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: and then saw it in the theater and was was

799
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: blown away and on rewatch. Yeah. I continue to think

800
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 1: that this is not just like a obviously a great movie,

801
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: a great comic book movie, but also kind of it's

802
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:50,399
Speaker 1: so great that you it's so much its own thing

803
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: that you can't do the thing that like Hollywood is

804
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 1: built on now, which is create a universe from it,

805
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 1: because it is so singularly done and that's kind of

806
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: what makes it so great. I love it so much.

807
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: One of the things on rewatch that really jumped out

808
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 1: to me was the really there's several like love triangles,

809
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: if you could call them. One of them is Bruce

810
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: Rachel and Harvey Dent. Now here's your timeline. This is

811
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: a year after Batman begins, right, Rachel and Bruce have

812
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 1: broken up because Bruce is batmanning and he can't commit. Right.

813
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: They've known each other since they were kids. She was

814
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 1: there when he found the batcave. YadA, YadA, YadA. He

815
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: loves her, but he can't be with her because Batman

816
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: reasons the Dark Knight. Now she's with Harvey Dent. It's

817
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 1: been a year, so clearly like they've only been together

818
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,720
Speaker 1: like what two three months?

819
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's trying to get engaged.

820
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bruce still obviously still in love. But Harvey and

821
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 1: Rachel are are so obviously hot and heavy at this

822
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 1: period in time, because there's that scene where you know,

823
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: Harvey punches the guy who tries to assassinate him in

824
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: the courtroom. Right, It's like, I'll show you combative, and

825
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,720
Speaker 1: then he punches the guy. And then right after that, uh,

826
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 1: Rachel's like, Harvey, let's get out of here.

827
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 10: I just want to say this is.

828
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 2: This is a very important moment for Rachel because we

829
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 2: don't learn a lot about her, but we do learn

830
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 2: she loves unhinged men. She loves punched a guy with

831
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 2: a gun and she's.

832
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 3: Like, oh maybe I love it.

833
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 2: And the part of the love triangle is Batman, so

834
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 2: we know her type.

835
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 1: Ranged so can we because like obviously Rachel, we lose

836
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: her in this film. But I really wanted I just

837
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: want to I just want to spotlight what a crazy

838
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 1: love life she is currently having in this film, getting

839
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:09,760
Speaker 1: clearly buck wild with Harvey Dent, and she deserves.

840
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,359
Speaker 12: She deserves deserves because she has such a blow up

841
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 12: from begins to hear and nothing to do with Katie Holmes.

842
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 12: I think if you watch the Choices Katie Holmes when

843
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 12: she plays like the girl next door best friend, and

844
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 12: that's definitely how Rachel starts off when we get the

845
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 12: new one, Maggie Jillian Hall, Yeah, yeah, when she comes in,

846
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 12: she's like such a boss bitch, such a layer, Like

847
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 12: she's like Boston people around, like in their face in

848
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 12: a way where you would be like yes, ma'am, immediately.

849
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 3: Question again, like something happened in.

850
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 6: That year where she's like she finds herself. She's like,

851
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 6: you know what, screw this, Like I do.

852
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 3: You know, let's look at that all comes raised on.

853
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 2: She leaves Bruce, and then suddenly she's kind of living

854
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 2: a good life.

855
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 13: Harvey great looking guy, yeah, very smart on his way

856
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 13: to being may clearly like some I'm a high official,

857
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 13: Like she's doing it and I'm proud of her.

858
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,280
Speaker 12: And I really feel like, for like on a comic

859
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 12: book scale, like Lois Lane's kind of like the iconic

860
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 12: girlfriend of comic books right, Like she's her own person.

861
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:17,360
Speaker 12: She's like a quippy individual who's like very capable, and

862
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 12: I really feel like, outside of the Superman Lowis Lane

863
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 12: kind of relationship, this is the first time I see

864
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 12: like a girlfriend in a comic book movie where I'm like,

865
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 12: I would totally want to be her, Like she's so

866
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 12: cool and funny and she has a job.

867
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 4: She's.

868
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 6: She's awesome.

869
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 10: I love Rachel shout out to her.

870
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:41,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I love that moment when after Harvey

871
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:45,839
Speaker 1: almost gets killed and then she's like not even like

872
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 1: he has to be like yeah, I'm fine, by the way,

873
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 1: and she's just like, ah, this is fucking shy. By

874
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 1: the way I am kind of like I had a

875
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: call and that's it. I'm done for this day.

876
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 2: You want to she understands Gotham better than Harvey or Bruce.

877
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 2: She's like, you're the DA in Gotham. If they're not

878
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 2: shooting at you, you're not doing your job. I'm like,

879
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 2: she knows that's that's the politics.

880
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 12: She's the first person got them stand up to the

881
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:12,280
Speaker 12: joker at the party.

882
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's actually a really great moment. I feel like

883
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 2: she doesn't necessarily get a lot of interior character work,

884
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 2: which is kind of the most of Nolan's characters. Actually,

885
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 2: no matter what gender they are, it's all about their

886
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 2: mission is what drives them.

887
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 3: But like, that's a.

888
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 2: Great moment where you get to see why Bruce and

889
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 2: Harvey like for for her, you know, she's the person

890
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 2: who will stand up to him in that space, even

891
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 2: when he's got a knife and he's telling his stories.

892
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,359
Speaker 1: Jay, who's the better boyfriend? Harvey or Bruce? Like, who

893
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: would you who's the better relationship partner?

894
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 10: You think Bruce Batman.

895
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 11: Soon as soon as stuff went bad for Harvey, like

896
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 11: a little bit bad, he just became the worst.

897
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: But he has one he had conversation with the Joke,

898
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 1: He's like, fuck.

899
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 10: It, kill everybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

900
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 11: He talked to the Joker for thirty seconds. It was like,

901
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 11: all right, I'm gonna shoot this kid in the head.

902
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 11: I'm gonna flip a coin to shoot this kid in

903
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:10,879
Speaker 11: the head. That's what he did.

904
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:15,839
Speaker 2: No, that is absolutely true, especially because Harvey, as all

905
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,800
Speaker 2: great Batman villains, they kind of do like the reflection

906
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 2: of Bruce. And literally, Harvey Dent loses one person and

907
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 2: turns into a villain.

908
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:25,240
Speaker 3: Tom Bruce doesn't.

909
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:28,240
Speaker 2: He loses one person and turns into a sociopathic, vigilant hero.

910
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 1: Talk about the reflection of Bruce because I love this framing.

911
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:33,919
Speaker 2: Okay, so I think this is one of the things

912
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 2: for me that doesn't hit as hard as some of

913
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 2: the other Batman movies. I think that a great villain

914
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 2: is like a reflection of Bruce or a different version

915
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:45,839
Speaker 2: of Bruce. Right, Batman returns the Penguin. He is what

916
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 2: if Bruce's parents abandoned him instead of died. What if

917
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,760
Speaker 2: you were really wealthy and you lost everything, you didn't

918
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 2: have the kind of folk The Joker is like the

919
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 2: anti thesis of Bruce, where it's what if you didn't

920
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 2: have a mission, and you're on mission was just to

921
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 2: destroy things, right. And then the Riddler in the New

922
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,720
Speaker 2: The Batman matt rees the Batman. That is a really

923
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 2: direct reflection of Bruce, where you have what if you

924
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 2: were really an orphan? Now Bruce is an orphan, but

925
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 2: Bruce has billions of dollars. Bruce wasn't raised in an orphanage.

926
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 2: Bruce had somebody who loved him. In Alfred, you know

927
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 2: the Joker in the original Batman eighty nine, you know

928
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 2: he kills his father figure, whereas Bruce is killed. You know,

929
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 2: I think that that's really cool, and I think with Harvey,

930
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 2: they do this really interesting starting point, the White Knight.

931
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 3: Versus the Dark Knight.

932
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 2: It's he is going to be the hero that Gotham

933
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 2: can be in an integral way, in a way that's

934
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 2: about morality.

935
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,720
Speaker 3: But then when it comes to that moment of trauma,

936
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 3: he just flips.

937
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 2: It's like he really does, and he's just like, boom,

938
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 2: I'm gonna kill a kid now, I.

939
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 1: Will say they do. They put stuff in there clearly

940
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 1: to make you, Okay, Harvey's in a lot of pain,

941
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 1: have his face gut burned, talk about this moment, well,

942
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: it's I will get there. But clearly, like I first

943
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 1: want to say, because I did this off mic, and

944
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,280
Speaker 1: so the audience heard me say this, but the wider

945
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 1: streaming on to hear me say this, Batman could have

946
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:14,320
Speaker 1: hustled up saving Harvey. Harvey's face is burned because Batman

947
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 1: didn't hustle like he doesn't. He doesn't, he doesn't, and

948
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 1: when when when he catches fire, he just looks like

949
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: he doesn't even like put like oh ship and like

950
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: put his cape over Marie.

951
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 3: His flamer talking.

952
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:32,919
Speaker 1: Definitely, he's just like fire on his face. You won't

953
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 1: have to spray, you don't have something and until.

954
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 3: Man I feel like he should.

955
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 13: But he was clearly like Rachel's boyfriend burning up.

956
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 1: That's too bad.

957
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 3: That happened, sorry to that man.

958
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: And then later he does have like the but but

959
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: they do put they they mentioned the intense amount of

960
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 1: pain obviously that Harvey is in.

961
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 3: He doesn't want to have the skin.

962
00:57:59,160 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then he.

963
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 1: Very very drugged up. So yes, Harvey does decide to

964
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 1: become a super villain after five minutes, but he is

965
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: like adult, he's not himself, and the jokers very persuasive.

966
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 11: Very persuasive watching watching uh, watching this in the theater

967
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 11: without having the history of like I didn't read any

968
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 11: of the comic books or any of any of this stuff, right,

969
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 11: so I'm just watching it for the first time. And

970
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 11: there's a point when he after he falls into the

971
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 11: into the chemical and he starts getting it on his

972
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 11: face and you're like, wait a second, hold on a second,

973
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 11: and then the big explosion happens and its face gets burnt,

974
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 11: and then realizing in the theater that Harvey didn't was

975
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 11: two face, It'd be like, no fucking way, the.

976
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 1: Joy, the discovery.

977
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 10: It was so much fun when that happened. I couldn't

978
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 10: believe it.

979
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 11: I was like the Leonardo DiCaprio mimo point in the.

980
00:58:58,120 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 10: Theater, like what kind of my god?

981
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 1: It was a root talk about that moment.

982
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, so this is one of the best, like

983
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 2: funniest I do think. I think the joker stuff in

984
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 2: the hospital and the joker in the nurses costume, that

985
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 2: to me is like some of the most inherently camp

986
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 2: moments from this movie, which I wish.

987
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 3: There was more of because I love that kind of stuff.

988
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 3: But there is the.

989
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 2: One moment that I do think is like all time

990
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 2: great moment, and I will say, you did a great

991
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 2: job defending Harvey, even though he's a judgy independent himself,

992
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 2: but still you did a great He's adult, you know.

993
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 2: But there is that great moment where the Joker's wearing

994
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 2: the nurses mask. They're like very clearly and he's looking like, oh,

995
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 2: this nice nurse is there, and then it takes.

996
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 3: Off the mask and he's like that is like, I'm

997
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 3: so I'm so happy.

998
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 2: To every single person at Warner Brothers, Christopher Nolan, you know,

999
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 2: everyone who watched that movie and kept that moment in

1000
00:59:57,960 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 2: thank you because.

1001
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 10: It's just joyful. And I think that that's one of.

1002
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 3: The coolest moments.

1003
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 2: I love the moment when the Joker leaves the hospital

1004
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 2: and the final charge doesn't go off and he's just

1005
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 2: kind of like looking at it. There's so much tension,

1006
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 2: and then when it blows up, he's even shocked.

1007
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 3: That's such a good character moment.

1008
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 6: That moment is improved.

1009
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was gonna say it was right.

1010
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 12: It was to do with the actual charge and they

1011
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 12: only had one take, so he couldn't drop character and

1012
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 12: ask what was going on, so he just laid it out.

1013
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 2: So good and it feels to me, well, Jasonatchier, I

1014
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 2: might ask you something because this leads into it. That's

1015
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 2: the one moment where I truly believe that that anarchist

1016
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 2: agent of chaos, like he doesn't everything planned because, as

1017
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 2: we were saying while everyone was coming in, this man,

1018
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 2: for someone who doesn't have a plan, very good at planning.

1019
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 1: The logistics is incredible, like where it guns and Ammo

1020
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 1: for the henchmen times.

1021
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 3: A lot of the buses, the school buses.

1022
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: I mean, he's got to use like twenty miles of rope,

1023
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 1: like the explosives, the tailor to.

1024
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 14: Put your hand up, just add to the tailor suits.

1025
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 1: Like he's got a lot of stuff.

1026
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 12: That's where the pet paton Oswald theory about this movie

1027
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 12: about Joker's origin story, Okay, I'm gonna try not to butcher.

1028
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 6: It, so okay.

1029
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 12: So frequently Joker talks about how he got his scars,

1030
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 12: and so we learn through the different tellings that he's

1031
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 12: an unreliable narrator.

1032
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 6: When he's at Harvey's.

1033
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 12: Bed and Harvey calls him some version of crazy, and

1034
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 12: he's like, dude, if a soldier blows up and treads him,

1035
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 12: nobody thinks that's crazy. That's just the way the world's

1036
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 12: supposed to work. Oswald's theory is that he's a soldier

1037
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 12: who was trained in interrogation methods.

1038
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 6: When Batman and him have.

1039
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 12: The great interrogation scene, Batman punches him in the face.

1040
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 6: He's like, you never start with the face.

1041
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:42,439
Speaker 3: People get oriented.

1042
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 12: So the theory then goes and if you look at

1043
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 12: the logistics as you were explaining, and how everything is

1044
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 12: perfectly calculated in time, and if you think about it

1045
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 12: as a mirror, and do you think about how Batman

1046
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 12: uses all these military texts to be calm the superhero

1047
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 12: that he is, it makes a lot of sense that

1048
01:01:57,840 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 12: the Joker was formerly a soldier.

1049
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 3: It makes a lot of sense.

1050
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 2: We talk about the political landscape of when the movie

1051
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 2: came out, To actually have like a disgruntled VET as

1052
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 2: your main lead would probably have been to kind of

1053
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 2: shocking they But actually it's incredibly prescient if you talk

1054
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 2: about it in that context.

1055
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 12: Yeah, and I don't ever want to know for sure,

1056
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 12: Like I hate when they're like, and this is why

1057
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 12: he became the Joke.

1058
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 3: Tells him that the name two faces what they used

1059
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 3: to call him.

1060
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 12: Exactly I don't need an origin story, but it's fun

1061
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:29,680
Speaker 12: to be like, oh, is this the one time he's

1062
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 12: telling the truth.

1063
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: I also, I.

1064
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 2: Love the changing narratives because it's such a nice nod

1065
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 2: to the comic book. That's why the Joker's origin always changes.

1066
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 2: So I think that I love that theory.

1067
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 3: Thank you for that.

1068
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 6: That's really cool.

1069
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 1: I love obviously Heath is incredible, unbelievable, but I love

1070
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 1: the way they take jokers very you know. Again, for

1071
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 1: a guy who says he doesn't plan, his plans are

1072
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: extremely elaborate and very very crazy, like they have a

1073
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 1: the texture of like improv comedy, where it's like, then

1074
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:05,720
Speaker 1: this will happen, and yes, and then I will do this.

1075
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 1: I always think about the jokerfish storyline from the comics,

1076
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: which is to me the classic crazy Jokers. So, just

1077
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 1: to summarize, the Joker puts drugs into the lake that

1078
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: transfer that you take the fish so that they have

1079
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 1: his face, and he has gone and trademarked his face, right,

1080
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 1: very very so his plan is to bankrupt to bankrupt

1081
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 1: the seafood industry by suing by suing it for trademark

1082
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:39,439
Speaker 1: infringement for using his face and therefore got them, will

1083
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 1: starve and whatever. He'll ask for a million dollars and

1084
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: then he'll recind the trademark violation.

1085
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 11: And I got to start reading comic books.

1086
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 1: And these plans like have that kind of feel to

1087
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: like the bus coming through the wall where it's like

1088
01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 1: and then the bus will come through and that's what

1089
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 1: kills me. Cigar grenade that's not a it's like just

1090
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 1: a smoke grenade. It could blow the mote, but it doesn't,

1091
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 1: and then I'll hook it up to the thing. Like

1092
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 1: all these kind of like elaborate bits and schemes and

1093
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 1: the grenades inside the vest. All of that stuff is

1094
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: so very very Jokrish, but heightened to this like horror level.

1095
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, disappearing the pencil.

1096
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 2: Yes, shaee oh, that's one of my favorite savores. It's

1097
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 2: so good, Shae. As someone who hasn't read the comics,

1098
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 2: how did it feel to see like Heath Ledger as

1099
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 2: the Joker compared to like other Jokers that you'd seen

1100
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 2: in like previous you talked about, you know about my Time,

1101
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 2: so you've seen about Man eighty nine, Like what did

1102
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:36,320
Speaker 2: it feel like just as someone who discovered these characters

1103
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 2: through the films to see like such a different interpretation.

1104
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 11: It felt like immediately that was the best villain I'd

1105
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 11: seen in a movie, and like probably since Hannibal Lecter

1106
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:51,640
Speaker 11: is what, like that was the first person I thought

1107
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:53,919
Speaker 11: of When I watched that, It was like, holy shit,

1108
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 11: this is just it was.

1109
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 10: So much fun watching watching him do it.

1110
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 11: You get like you get pieces of that sometimes in

1111
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 11: a in a performance, like I think another example of

1112
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 11: like a small one of that happening Christian Bale did

1113
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:09,439
Speaker 11: it at the beginning of The Fighter when you sitting

1114
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 11: on the couch with Mark Wahlberg and and they're and

1115
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 11: they're doing their interview, their their thing, and and Christian

1116
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 11: Bale just takes over the whole moment and you're like, oh,

1117
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 11: like he's on it.

1118
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 10: He's seven levels.

1119
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 11: Higher than what Mark Wahlberg can do in that moment

1120
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:24,880
Speaker 11: you watch it happen. And then then in this movie,

1121
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 11: Heath Ledger shows up and he's seven levels past what

1122
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 11: Christian Bale could. I think Christian Bell is the best

1123
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 11: batman we've ever had. Heath Ledger just he he's it's

1124
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 11: like almost impossible to describe how good he is. You

1125
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 11: just have to watch, You have to just say, just

1126
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 11: look at this. Just watch this moment. Watch what's about

1127
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:45,800
Speaker 11: to happen right here. Watch how he says this word.

1128
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 11: Watch how he when the guy calls him crazy and

1129
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 11: he says, no, I'm not, and then he reimports yeah,

1130
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 11: no I'm not. Like just some little stuff like that,

1131
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 11: like what is happening right? And I've never seen anything

1132
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 11: like this. It was it was unbelievable watching It's still

1133
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 11: my face. He's my favorite superhero villain. This is my

1134
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 11: favorite superhero movie largely because of him. It's just he's

1135
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 11: so incredible in this.

1136
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 1: I completely agree. My favorite little Joker tick is when

1137
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:21,080
Speaker 1: he first comes in. Uh, you know, all the criminals

1138
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 1: are meeting because Lao took their money to Hong Kong,

1139
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:33,920
Speaker 1: and he comes in. He goes ha ha, He's like

1140
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 1: humping it.

1141
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:37,240
Speaker 4: Uh.

1142
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 1: Something I noticed about this movie on rewatch I hadn't

1143
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 1: thought too much about previously, is isn't the takeaway from

1144
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 1: the end of this movie that Batman has kind of

1145
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: not figured out the dog problem. Like he gets right

1146
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 1: and then he's like, Okay, I need a lighter suit

1147
01:06:57,400 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 1: because like I got knocked off the van, the whole thing.

1148
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 1: But now he's even more susceptible to the dogs. Like

1149
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 1: Joe Girl just takes him out with dog with dogs.

1150
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 10: He does punch the.

1151
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:07,240
Speaker 3: Dogs down and elevator shaft.

1152
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 6: Yes, that is the thing that happens.

1153
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 3: In this movie.

1154
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 2: But you're right also, I will say, on watching this now,

1155
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 2: this is the problem when you watch this stuff so much.

1156
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, the end of the movie, you have Harvey Dent

1157
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 3: the one time you know, White Knight.

1158
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:24,200
Speaker 2: Of Gotham who goes crazy because of Rachel dying, and

1159
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 2: he talks to the Joker, and then you have the Joker.

1160
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 2: Batman won't kill the Joker, but he will kill Harvey Dent.

1161
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 2: And he kills Harvey Dent. I feel like that's a

1162
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:35,080
Speaker 2: moral complexity that I can't I'm still trying to work

1163
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 2: it out. I know he kills him to save a kid,

1164
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 2: But if you kill the Joker, surely you're saving everyone

1165
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:42,360
Speaker 2: else from all the inevitable crimes the Joker is going

1166
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:43,280
Speaker 2: to commit in the future.

1167
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 6: He's in love with the Joker.

1168
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 1: No, no, no, okay, that is thank you.

1169
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will actually say I never saw I never

1170
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 2: really realized it until I watched it this time. But

1171
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 2: Heath actually does play that and the script, he's I'm

1172
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:01,400
Speaker 2: assuming is Goya because he's really the comic book guy.

1173
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 2: They play into it where he's constantly telling Batman like,

1174
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna hurt you because I care about.

1175
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 1: You and I need you.

1176
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 4: Now.

1177
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:11,520
Speaker 2: Batman has not come to that realization yet, but you

1178
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 2: could argue the fact that he doesn't kill him is

1179
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 2: because on some level he does understand that, which is

1180
01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:18,439
Speaker 2: the inherent There's.

1181
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:22,519
Speaker 1: A wonderful moment when the Joker is falling right at

1182
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 1: the after they have their you know, he he.

1183
01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:26,160
Speaker 3: Gets bit by a dog.

1184
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:27,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets a bit with a dog, and now

1185
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:29,599
Speaker 1: the Joker has them, but then he shoots the batterings

1186
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 1: out of the Wow, Bruce want to come back, And

1187
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:40,519
Speaker 1: then the Joker's falling and the Joker is elated because

1188
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 1: he's like, ha I got you, I won. You are

1189
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 1: going to murder me right now?

1190
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:49,640
Speaker 13: Ha ha I I have beat you and then crusted you.

1191
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:52,679
Speaker 1: I corrupted you. And then when he saves him, he's

1192
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:54,640
Speaker 1: like real legitimately disappointed.

1193
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 2: He is, but I think there's a romance in it

1194
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:58,639
Speaker 2: because he also says he's like, ah, you just couldn't

1195
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 2: let me go, And that's like a throwback to when

1196
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 2: Bruce tells him to let Rachel go. Also, I will

1197
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 2: say another thing that I was kind of think is

1198
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:07,799
Speaker 2: a really good, bittersweet, sad ending of this movie.

1199
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:09,960
Speaker 3: They actually Joker says.

1200
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 2: You're incorruptible because you won't kill him, But they end

1201
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 2: up corrupting Batman because he covers up the truth about

1202
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:16,640
Speaker 2: what Harvey did, and he does it because it's the

1203
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:18,640
Speaker 2: right reason. But then you get a corrupted Batman. I

1204
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 2: thought that was pretty powerful at the end of it.

1205
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: Is that can I just is that the best? Like,

1206
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 1: can't you just say I don't know one of the

1207
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:26,600
Speaker 1: Jokers henchmen.

1208
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:27,879
Speaker 14: There's push.

1209
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:32,879
Speaker 1: So many of them running. One of them pushed Harvey

1210
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:33,400
Speaker 1: off the thing.

1211
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 2: Not just that, but like there's like a million criminals

1212
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:40,760
Speaker 2: in Gotham. They literally had to build Arkham because there's

1213
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:43,160
Speaker 2: so many. The Scarecrow is still active. There are a

1214
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:44,160
Speaker 2: lot of different ways.

1215
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 3: On a narrative level, I feel like I.

1216
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:51,599
Speaker 12: Let somebody else who's living take the fall. I'm sure

1217
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:52,920
Speaker 12: many people died and they could have been like it

1218
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 12: was that one he's dead.

1219
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:55,400
Speaker 6: Who cares about one of.

1220
01:09:55,400 --> 01:10:00,240
Speaker 2: The many corrupt cops that they just kept hiring up

1221
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 2: for a Commissioner Gordon to lie under oath.

1222
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:08,920
Speaker 1: They're all lying, tells you like your entire unit is racketeers, to.

1223
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:10,519
Speaker 12: The point where you had to figure own death. Harvey like,

1224
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 12: it's pretty bad.

1225
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:14,080
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, yeah.

1226
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:15,400
Speaker 10: Can I can?

1227
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:19,679
Speaker 11: I offer yes, an alternate origin story for the Joker.

1228
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:24,360
Speaker 11: This is this is an opposite of the patent as

1229
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 11: alt one because this is the thing that that stood

1230
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:27,679
Speaker 11: out to me when I watched it on this time.

1231
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:29,800
Speaker 11: You know the moment when the mayor is in the

1232
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 11: office talking and the fake Batman he's been hung, bangs

1233
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:35,640
Speaker 11: into the great moment. They lower his body down and

1234
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:40,559
Speaker 11: it's got the card on the card that the Joker

1235
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:43,559
Speaker 11: has given him. It says, will the real Batman please

1236
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:49,839
Speaker 11: stand up? This is two thousand and eight. In two thousand,

1237
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 11: Eminem put the song out worth. I think the Joker

1238
01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:56,599
Speaker 11: just got super into Eminem, and then.

1239
01:10:58,439 --> 01:10:59,799
Speaker 10: That's why the land.

1240
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:05,000
Speaker 1: Stand no, no, he is stand.

1241
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:07,160
Speaker 10: Playing.

1242
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 3: I believe it.

1243
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:18,800
Speaker 1: A small geopolitical question, just a small duds, A few

1244
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 1: that this. I mean, yeah, and obviously like the involvement,

1245
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 1: like you know, uh, China panic is kind of like

1246
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 1: a sub theme of this movie, right, Harvey. At one

1247
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 1: point says, you know carbon five or nine millimeter, If

1248
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:35,160
Speaker 1: you're gonna assassinate a public servant, I suggest you buy

1249
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:39,599
Speaker 1: it there, right, not not of course, not realizing that

1250
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:43,720
Speaker 1: like Batman's of all his fucking batterings from China, all

1251
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:47,800
Speaker 1: that ship comes from China. Did Batman not almost start

1252
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:50,080
Speaker 1: World War three?

1253
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 2: This is essentially from what we see he is like

1254
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 2: he's like Bruce Wayne in Hong Kong. He has billions

1255
01:11:57,320 --> 01:12:00,760
Speaker 2: of dollars, he has high you know skis, he has

1256
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:03,640
Speaker 2: people who work from and Bruce just went there, kidnapped him,

1257
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 2: put a parachute on him, arrested him in America with

1258
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:07,400
Speaker 2: no jurisdiction, and.

1259
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:08,519
Speaker 3: Everyone was just like that's fine.

1260
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:12,320
Speaker 1: Multiple people know it's Batman, like people saw and there's

1261
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:14,080
Speaker 1: no lawyer him out.

1262
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 3: They just leave him and like not county, but in

1263
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 3: like the police, and there's no.

1264
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:20,519
Speaker 12: Stealth on that plane, easily drackable like you're telling it, like.

1265
01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 13: This would be you turn on CNN and it would

1266
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:25,280
Speaker 13: be like everywhere, Uh.

1267
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:30,200
Speaker 1: China recalls their ambassadors because of Batman International incident.

1268
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:37,640
Speaker 2: Fuck so quickly, like you couldn't even believe it, like

1269
01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:39,839
Speaker 2: it would he would never have been there, overnight.

1270
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:44,120
Speaker 11: Absolutely, they talk about three do they talk about in

1271
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 11: the comic books, like how famous Batman is?

1272
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:50,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it depends the version. In some places he is.

1273
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:52,920
Speaker 2: There's versions of him around the world, and as he's

1274
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 2: inspired different heroes or he licenses himself out to different

1275
01:12:56,080 --> 01:12:58,960
Speaker 2: countries and like different people play him in different countries.

1276
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:02,200
Speaker 3: That's real. So yeah, But there is also.

1277
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:04,599
Speaker 2: An argument that nobody would know who he was in

1278
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 2: this more like grounded world, So somebody would just be like,

1279
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:09,160
Speaker 2: oh no, this guy was kidnapped. But also I feel

1280
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 2: like they would then look for him, maybe.

1281
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 11: Because it seems like they would. Somebody would have been like,

1282
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:16,760
Speaker 11: oh shit, is Batman like somebody.

1283
01:13:18,439 --> 01:13:18,960
Speaker 15: You know what I mean?

1284
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:21,240
Speaker 10: But they did in something, maybe they this guy.

1285
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 2: Actually, this brings up one of the things I think

1286
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 2: that's really interesting about these movies and actually is one

1287
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:28,480
Speaker 2: of its most unexpected legacies. One of the big discourses

1288
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 2: we all have, right if you talk about Batman, why

1289
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:33,599
Speaker 2: doesn't Batman put money into Gotham?

1290
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:35,240
Speaker 3: Why doesn't Batman just.

1291
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 2: Like open an orphanage in some versions he has? Why

1292
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,800
Speaker 2: doesn't Batman just like not go out and beat up

1293
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:42,880
Speaker 2: poor people who are suffering from the fact that he's

1294
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 2: a billionaire.

1295
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:47,679
Speaker 1: He does have the orphanage that he didn't know about orphanage.

1296
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 2: But like, but I actually think that Batman begins in

1297
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:58,000
Speaker 2: the Dark Night. They bring those questions to the forefront

1298
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:01,000
Speaker 2: of pop culture conversation because if you used these stories

1299
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:03,800
Speaker 2: in a real world as this does this hyper realistic world,

1300
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:06,040
Speaker 2: then people are obviously going to say, well, wouldn't there

1301
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:08,640
Speaker 2: be a geopolitical fallout, like if we're talking about the

1302
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:13,679
Speaker 2: da or we're talking about a militarized vehicle, Like Jason,

1303
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:15,200
Speaker 2: you were talking about this earlier, but like, you don't

1304
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:18,960
Speaker 2: think the guy who like designed the tumbler who's sitting

1305
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 2: in somebody's.

1306
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:19,880
Speaker 1: Like, oh.

1307
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:28,120
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, And like, wouldn't everyone assume.

1308
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:30,560
Speaker 2: That in a city you know, we were kind of

1309
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:33,000
Speaker 2: talking about this off mic, but like in a city

1310
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 2: like Gotham where so many people are poor and so

1311
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:37,760
Speaker 2: many people are struggling and one guy is a billionaire,

1312
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:40,719
Speaker 2: wouldn't you be like, I wonder who has the money

1313
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:42,160
Speaker 2: for all this militarized tech?

1314
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:45,120
Speaker 3: Who has the time and doesn't have to do anything.

1315
01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:48,840
Speaker 6: This reminds me of The Dark Knight Returns.

1316
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:54,080
Speaker 12: There's a moment where a guy is trying to blackmail

1317
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:56,439
Speaker 12: Batman via Lucia's Fox.

1318
01:14:56,680 --> 01:15:03,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, not just that, but as me and Jason

1319
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:05,920
Speaker 2: was saying, there is like twenty five different this.

1320
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:07,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1321
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:09,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, the lawyer who's trying to blackmail him.

1322
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:11,439
Speaker 12: Right right, and so like he's part of the company

1323
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 12: and who's just last in his face. He's like, so

1324
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:16,880
Speaker 12: you think that a billionaire who dresses up as a

1325
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:19,720
Speaker 12: bat and punches crazy folks in the middle of the night,

1326
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 12: you're gonna blackmail him?

1327
01:15:22,080 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 2: Luck good?

1328
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:25,400
Speaker 12: And I really feel like multiple people in Gotham are

1329
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 12: just playing along.

1330
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:32,799
Speaker 2: Oh kay, okay, this is important question that Jason posed

1331
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 2: in our ideas for the show.

1332
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 3: How many people know?

1333
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:36,679
Speaker 1: And I haven't said anything.

1334
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:37,759
Speaker 3: But I haven't said anything.

1335
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:42,920
Speaker 1: Well, clearly the guy nobody, I agree, at least everybody

1336
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:50,400
Speaker 1: at the factory who makes the batterings, Yes, who are

1337
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:50,920
Speaker 1: these for?

1338
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 4: Why?

1339
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:53,920
Speaker 16: They say.

1340
01:15:57,160 --> 01:16:00,840
Speaker 15: If you're down, it's like a BN and M or like,

1341
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:06,200
Speaker 15: you know, everybody who had seen the original bat armor prototype,

1342
01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:07,760
Speaker 15: you know, for the military.

1343
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:09,559
Speaker 12: And all the security guards who watch the tapes of

1344
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 12: him coming in and I'd be like, how did he

1345
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:13,679
Speaker 12: leave the building? Yes, Rwen has to be here because

1346
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:15,080
Speaker 12: we did not see him physically leave.

1347
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:18,200
Speaker 2: Who are the mechanics who are fixing the bat tom

1348
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:21,639
Speaker 2: blaw the bat bike? Like, surely they must know because

1349
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:23,599
Speaker 2: it's not just Bruce and Lucius, no way.

1350
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:30,280
Speaker 1: A lot of people all the household at Wayne manor one.

1351
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:32,720
Speaker 3: Of my favorite vehicle designs.

1352
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:35,120
Speaker 10: And absolutely, you know what.

1353
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 11: What what I really like about this movie that when

1354
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:40,040
Speaker 11: Jason asked about doing this thing, I'm like, let me

1355
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:41,720
Speaker 11: rewatch it because it's been like two years since I

1356
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:44,560
Speaker 11: saw it, And then I watched it like four times over.

1357
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:46,559
Speaker 10: It was just so it was so good.

1358
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:48,880
Speaker 11: But each time I watched it, the thing that stood

1359
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 11: out to me was how many times in the movie

1360
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:52,519
Speaker 11: they do a thing of like no, no, we're good,

1361
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:56,920
Speaker 11: and then immediately they're not good. It's so much fun

1362
01:16:56,960 --> 01:16:59,200
Speaker 11: like that, Like they have the meeting and the one

1363
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 11: the one guy and there I think it's like a

1364
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:05,200
Speaker 11: cop and he's like, no more dead copsers and then

1365
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:07,320
Speaker 11: like ten seconds later the cop gets shot in the

1366
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:11,360
Speaker 11: face by the joke And they do that so many

1367
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:14,280
Speaker 11: times throughout the movie. When the when the when the

1368
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:16,559
Speaker 11: joker is like trying to get Harvey Dent in the

1369
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:19,160
Speaker 11: thing and they stoot at him and then goes, don't worry,

1370
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:20,960
Speaker 11: he's gonna need something much bigger than that to get.

1371
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 11: And then immediately at Bazuka and then when there when

1372
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 11: Batman is cruising through and they're like, oh, he missed,

1373
01:17:28,320 --> 01:17:31,120
Speaker 11: and then immediately the truck flips upside down like they

1374
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 11: do like ten times in there, and it gets funnier

1375
01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:34,200
Speaker 11: every single.

1376
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 14: Time before the cop guy someone your thugs are worse

1377
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:48,439
Speaker 14: than ever and yeah, Harvey's credit, he did.

1378
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:53,000
Speaker 1: He's like, it's true, You're right. I think that's actually

1379
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:57,400
Speaker 1: one of the really cool things I mentioned before, how

1380
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:00,040
Speaker 1: you kind of can't do a shared universal of this

1381
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:04,639
Speaker 1: and one of the reasons why is it never gets better,

1382
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:07,680
Speaker 1: Like I he Bruce gets a happy ending it, you know,

1383
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:09,560
Speaker 1: at the very end of the series, but like a

1384
01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:13,120
Speaker 1: nuclear bomb does go off and.

1385
01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:18,080
Speaker 17: You you know, like they lose an entire city for

1386
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:22,679
Speaker 17: like almost a year with you know, fifty thousand public

1387
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:24,600
Speaker 17: servants living in tunnels.

1388
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 3: To protect them. Is like caught Burban.

1389
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:28,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, like it's bad.

1390
01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:29,760
Speaker 17: That.

1391
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:32,799
Speaker 1: One of the things that's so that that really creates

1392
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:36,040
Speaker 1: the texture of this series and the Dark Knight in particular,

1393
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 1: is like it just gets worse the whole time. Everything

1394
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:41,360
Speaker 1: gets it. It just gets worse and worse and worse

1395
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:43,240
Speaker 1: the more bad stuff happened.

1396
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:43,720
Speaker 5: That's true.

1397
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:46,520
Speaker 2: And if you actually think about it, like the trajectory

1398
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:50,479
Speaker 2: of the Dark Knight Rises is like, yeah, he gets

1399
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:53,280
Speaker 2: like a maybe happy ending where Alfred like sees him

1400
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:55,200
Speaker 2: in Italy and maybe that happened and maybe it didn't.

1401
01:18:55,320 --> 01:18:57,760
Speaker 2: But like he's just fallen in love with Talia I'll

1402
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:00,920
Speaker 2: go spoiler lot Ana and is like in love with

1403
01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:02,479
Speaker 2: her and everything, and then she just has like the

1404
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:05,519
Speaker 2: worst on screen death. So it's like even's happy, even

1405
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:08,880
Speaker 2: its happy ending is tragic. It's like it's not settling,

1406
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:13,760
Speaker 2: but it's like it's it's a different version of what

1407
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:15,760
Speaker 2: he thought his life would be. He'd found this person

1408
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:18,240
Speaker 2: who'd had this tragic origin in the same way as him,

1409
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:20,320
Speaker 2: you know. So even then, it's like you said, everything

1410
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:23,080
Speaker 2: just gets worse and something that I think they do

1411
01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:24,920
Speaker 2: really well also share. I just have to say you

1412
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:27,080
Speaker 2: need to read the comics because that thing of being

1413
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:29,160
Speaker 2: like this thing could never happen, and then you turn

1414
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:30,280
Speaker 2: the page and that thing happens.

1415
01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:32,880
Speaker 3: It's like one of the most joyful things. And I

1416
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:34,320
Speaker 3: absolutely took it from that.

1417
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:38,080
Speaker 2: But like it's that thing of like everything bad that

1418
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:41,000
Speaker 2: happens in these movies happens because of Batman. And I

1419
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:43,320
Speaker 2: actually think that they did that on purpose. Like I

1420
01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 2: was watching the making of You can watch it on

1421
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:46,360
Speaker 2: YouTube if you don't.

1422
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:50,240
Speaker 3: Have the Blu ray or DVD, But like the making of, they.

1423
01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:52,519
Speaker 2: Talk about how from the very first movie, even though

1424
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:54,400
Speaker 2: they didn't know it was going to be a franchise, allegedly,

1425
01:19:54,439 --> 01:19:56,800
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's Batman, guys, I think you knew, but sure,

1426
01:19:57,280 --> 01:20:00,400
Speaker 2: like they basically say they always knew that if the

1427
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:04,639
Speaker 2: Joker arrived, it's because of Batman, right, Batman creates the Joker,

1428
01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 2: because the Joker sees Batman and decides he needs to exist.

1429
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:09,160
Speaker 3: And I like the way that.

1430
01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:12,559
Speaker 2: They keep that throughout, like the death of Harvey Dent

1431
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:14,400
Speaker 2: and the way it's treated and the cover up that

1432
01:20:14,479 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 2: leads to Bane and that it's this completely.

1433
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:25,320
Speaker 16: Depressed he's here, he's entered the building, and that's kind

1434
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:28,640
Speaker 16: of that depressing like ripple effect of that movie is

1435
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:31,639
Speaker 16: just like Batman's trying to do his best, but everything

1436
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:34,760
Speaker 16: he does just inherently makes the city.

1437
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 3: Worse, and that is kind of the law of Batman.

1438
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:38,880
Speaker 2: But It's also one of the things I like the

1439
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:41,200
Speaker 2: most about the Batman, Like the most recent one is

1440
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:43,600
Speaker 2: it has this kind of ending where Batman realizes that

1441
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:46,080
Speaker 2: he can actually like help people and it seems like

1442
01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:49,400
Speaker 2: maybe there's a little bit of hope, whereas this one's like, Batman,

1443
01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:51,200
Speaker 2: you have to take the four for five murders you

1444
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:55,280
Speaker 2: didn't do and drive off and like live in your

1445
01:20:55,280 --> 01:20:57,360
Speaker 2: big house as like a cool, reclusive billionaire.

1446
01:20:57,400 --> 01:20:59,280
Speaker 3: But that's not bad because you've got billion dollars, so

1447
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:00,080
Speaker 3: he's doing. Okay.

1448
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:07,839
Speaker 1: A final quick question rank for me in from best

1449
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 1: to worst smelling the Batman villains from the Dark Knight

1450
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 1: trilogy Rossel Ghoul, Scarecrow, the Joker Bane.

1451
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:23,400
Speaker 12: Okay, I got this, Okay, okay, all right. The Scarecrow

1452
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:25,680
Speaker 12: smells the best because he's a doctor and he has

1453
01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:26,639
Speaker 12: to get through his.

1454
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:28,160
Speaker 1: Day and okay, that's.

1455
01:21:29,320 --> 01:21:32,120
Speaker 12: Right, right exactly, so he's he's got to show up

1456
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 12: fresh to work every day. Altho, whit people a gonna

1457
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:34,879
Speaker 12: start asking questions.

1458
01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:38,639
Speaker 3: I don't take his nightmare lsd drug if he smells bad.

1459
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:47,880
Speaker 12: Joker Baine and who else? Okay, Man, I think Baine

1460
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:50,639
Speaker 12: because he's really about presentation and he's eating his head

1461
01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:53,720
Speaker 12: looking shiny, you know, yeah, yeah, And I think you

1462
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:55,800
Speaker 12: know he's keeping everybody's sort of in lock. He's got

1463
01:21:55,840 --> 01:21:58,639
Speaker 12: like he's wearing masks before any of us. I really

1464
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:02,519
Speaker 12: feel strongly he was on his jerk shape and he

1465
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:07,519
Speaker 12: was prepared. Okay, then I'm gonna go. The last two

1466
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 12: are situational, right, because you would expect the Joker because

1467
01:22:10,080 --> 01:22:11,840
Speaker 12: he's wild and his face is all greasy from his

1468
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:16,640
Speaker 12: hands regularly. But if we're in the caves in the

1469
01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 12: mountains and Raja Blue probably stinging up a lot out there,

1470
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:25,200
Speaker 12: like fighting and pretending to be other people, and that

1471
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:28,240
Speaker 12: there might be at times comparisons.

1472
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:28,880
Speaker 6: To be oh between the Joker and.

1473
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:32,720
Speaker 1: Jackals trust the Jokers.

1474
01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:34,599
Speaker 10: The Joker smells so bad.

1475
01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:37,959
Speaker 3: I agree.

1476
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:41,240
Speaker 11: Teeth You can tell by his teeth because his teeth

1477
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:42,400
Speaker 11: are super caked up.

1478
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:45,240
Speaker 10: You can see, man.

1479
01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:49,160
Speaker 1: You can see when he grabs Senator Patrick Lahy of Vermont,

1480
01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:53,200
Speaker 1: that a lady is is getting kicked in the face

1481
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:55,880
Speaker 1: by what is emanating from the from the mouth of

1482
01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:56,479
Speaker 1: the Joker.

1483
01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:00,240
Speaker 2: You have a no, I think you guys some I

1484
01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:03,080
Speaker 2: think the Joker smells the worst. Definitely, his hair is

1485
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:05,840
Speaker 2: looks like he hasn't had a shower for like fifty years.

1486
01:23:06,479 --> 01:23:09,679
Speaker 2: The suit he probably only has one. Let's be real,

1487
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:11,719
Speaker 2: like it's it's a bad time.

1488
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:13,120
Speaker 3: I'm not.

1489
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:15,120
Speaker 2: I think it's I wouldn't like to be around him.

1490
01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:17,360
Speaker 2: That would actually be my biggest issue being around him.

1491
01:23:17,400 --> 01:23:19,760
Speaker 2: I think Ross otherwise that be fine.

1492
01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:23,800
Speaker 1: I agree that I agree Scarecrow smells the best because

1493
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:30,720
Speaker 1: he does have a day job. I think Ross smells

1494
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:35,160
Speaker 1: like incense or something like that, like, yeah, oh he's here,

1495
01:23:38,360 --> 01:23:45,760
Speaker 1: bain It's interesting, Bain. I think just smells like like

1496
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:47,320
Speaker 1: like body yeah, hells.

1497
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:48,400
Speaker 10: Like twenty four hour fitness.

1498
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, I smell.

1499
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:54,080
Speaker 1: Ah. He's never wearing a shirt, like he's down there

1500
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:56,400
Speaker 1: when they go down when they take Gordon down there,

1501
01:23:56,479 --> 01:23:58,680
Speaker 1: he's just like they shake him to see Baine and

1502
01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:03,720
Speaker 1: Baines is like on his haunches with no shirt, Like

1503
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:06,519
Speaker 1: what is he even doing? He's just like crouching with

1504
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 1: no shirt.

1505
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:07,439
Speaker 15: Okay.

1506
01:24:08,439 --> 01:24:10,760
Speaker 1: And then obviously I think the joker smells like a

1507
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:20,679
Speaker 1: bag of pennies, like smells awful. That's it for our show.

1508
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:24,320
Speaker 1: A big thank you to Michael Juzland, Chase Serrano, dral Monique,

1509
01:24:24,439 --> 01:24:28,200
Speaker 1: big beg you to you to everybody's streaming catch the

1510
01:24:28,240 --> 01:24:32,080
Speaker 1: next episode of Extra Vision Wednesday, June thirtieth. Extra Vision

1511
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:33,960
Speaker 1: is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by

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Speaker 1: Chris Lord and Saul Rumin and executive produced by me

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Speaker 1: Jason Concepcio and our editing at sound design is by

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Speaker 1: Vicillis Fatopoulos. Video production by Delon Villanueva and Rachel Gaieski.

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Speaker 1: Social media by Awa Oklatti and Caroline Dunfie. Thank you

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01:24:47,840 --> 01:24:50,559
Speaker 1: to Brian Basquez for our theme music, See you next time,

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Speaker 1: See you next time.