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Speaker 1: Good warning. You're about to enter the arena and join

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Speaker 1: the battle to save America with your host Sean Parnell.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to Battleground Podcast. Today, I have an

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Speaker 2: amazing guest. I've been excited to talk to him for

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Speaker 2: a while now. His name is Shane Osborne. Shane is

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Speaker 2: a former Naval eighty aviator who extended his tour after

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Speaker 2: nine to eleven to continue flying combat mission. Shane was

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Speaker 2: assigned to the Fleet Air Reconnaissance Squadron one the world

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Speaker 2: watchers and Shane kind of had an interesting experience in

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Speaker 2: the air when he collided with a Chinese aircraft. Somehow

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Speaker 2: he managed to safely land the plane, but he along

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Speaker 2: with twenty three of his people who are on that

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Speaker 2: plane and we're surrounded by the Chinese military for almost

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Speaker 2: a month.

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Speaker 1: Shane.

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Speaker 2: Oh, now you're the CEO of r WH Energy, which

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Speaker 2: is a company that is just like kicking ass and

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Speaker 2: taking names, and it's Shane. It's an honor to have

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Speaker 2: you here. Thank you for giving us some of your time.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Sean, I appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: So you got to take me back to the very

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Speaker 2: beginning and tell me about how you decided to serve

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Speaker 2: your country. I know that flying is something that is

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Speaker 2: that you've wanted to do since you were young.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So my mom was I was raised by a

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Speaker 1: single mom. She was director nurses at the Nebraska Veterans Home.

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Speaker 1: So after school weekends, holidays, I hung out with vets

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Speaker 1: all the time here in World War two, Korea War stories,

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Speaker 1: Vietnam obviously, and so I always wanted to serve. So

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Speaker 1: I didn't go through life wondering what I was going

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Speaker 1: to do. I knew it by the time I was

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Speaker 1: in the second grade. I was writing the papers, want

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Speaker 1: to fly for you, the Air Force, the Naviian. So

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Speaker 1: I was lucky enough, and I graduated high school in

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Speaker 1: ninety two, and that was the downturn, right the Cold

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Speaker 1: War ended and there wasn't a lot of plots, lot

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Speaker 1: of things. So I was lucky because we were, you know,

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Speaker 1: we didn't have a lot of money, and I was

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Speaker 1: able to get an R OFFC scholarship to the University

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Speaker 1: of Nebraska, and so that's that's how it all started.

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Speaker 1: And graduated in ninety six, was there when the Huskers

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Speaker 1: actually played good football they will be again soon, And

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Speaker 1: then headed off to flight school in Pensacola and was

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Speaker 1: able to live my dream.

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Speaker 2: So so I was wondering if you went to the

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Speaker 2: Naval Academy, you know, and you know when you prep

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Speaker 2: for these interviews, like I want to know about you,

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Speaker 2: but I will I don't want to know too much

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Speaker 2: because I want to learn during the interview process. And

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Speaker 2: I just thought to myself, like I wonder if he's

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Speaker 2: a Naval Academy guy.

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Speaker 1: Because I'll tell you this, like, no, I tried, you

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Speaker 1: did what? Okay? Tell me. I was nominated to the

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Speaker 1: Senator accident the time nominated me to West Point and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to fly. I didn't even apply to West Point.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what happened with their paperwork, but they

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Speaker 1: nominated me to the wrong academy. So heartbroken. I wish

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Speaker 1: I could have gone on APPLIS, but it all worked

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Speaker 1: out well.

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Speaker 2: So I don't think I could have handled I don't

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Speaker 2: think I could have handled West Point. I mean I

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Speaker 2: was an ROTC guy as well. I think that ROTC

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Speaker 2: teaches you some like very important life lessons about being

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Speaker 2: a college student and like getting to where you need

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Speaker 2: to be on time and not having somebody like putting

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Speaker 2: a finger in your chest telling you to do it,

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Speaker 2: you know, So I think that there's value in that.

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Speaker 2: But I also like when when Outlaw Patune came out,

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Speaker 2: it's like required reading at west Point and they've got

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Speaker 2: a class on it. So I'll go and meet with

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Speaker 2: those cadets and I see the life that they live. Man,

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Speaker 2: And I say this often, I don't think I could

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Speaker 2: do it, Like, I don't know that if I entered

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Speaker 2: the military through an academy, I don't know if I

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Speaker 2: could have made it.

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Speaker 1: I just don't. It was they didn't. They didn't get

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Speaker 1: the college life we did. We'll just leave it back

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Speaker 1: to city, right, I mean, that's definitely a dedication. And

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Speaker 1: I remember because all my best friends in the Navy

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Speaker 1: were academy guys. We all got down to Pensalcola to

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Speaker 1: flight school and they went nuts, right, they were exactly

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Speaker 1: they were having a good time. Well that's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: Like, so we had at least in the Army and

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Speaker 2: in the infantry, because I was in the infantry. So

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Speaker 2: we would have two kinds and two kinds of West

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Speaker 2: Point officers. And by the way, like I'm not judging

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Speaker 2: at all, Like I love what I've got tons of

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Speaker 2: friends that are West Point guys, but like well now

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Speaker 2: in West Point women as well. But we had people

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Speaker 2: that would graduate that would come out that were super smoked,

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Speaker 2: you know, because they had just done four years of

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Speaker 2: like really tough stuff, you know, four years of basic

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Speaker 2: training essentially, and then they'd come into a unit and

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Speaker 2: already already emotionally, mentally, physically exhausted. Then he had the

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Speaker 2: other guys that were just super gung ho, and and

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Speaker 2: when they got to their unit, I do feel like

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Speaker 2: there was a little bit of like they go to

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Speaker 2: the infantry offs or basic course to go to their schools.

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Speaker 2: I do feel like there's a little bit of like

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Speaker 2: release there, like like they're pretty like is that.

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Speaker 1: Escaped prisoners or something.

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Speaker 2: It's funny, Yeah, so you that's so. So you get

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Speaker 2: to Pensacola and you're flying, so like tell me, like,

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Speaker 2: I'm not a Navy guy, so I don't know anything

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Speaker 2: about the rigors of your training, Like tell me, tell

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Speaker 2: me about what flight school was like at Pensacola. And

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Speaker 2: obviously your Navy so you Navy flies rotary wing and

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Speaker 2: fixed wing, So how did you get selected for fixed wing?

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Speaker 1: So so it's it's all it's all about really the

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Speaker 1: needs of the Navy is what it is. So the

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Speaker 1: week you graduate, whatever flots they have, that's what's there.

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Speaker 1: But the the the interesting thing about me is I

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Speaker 1: was in I was actually I went from Pensacola to

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Speaker 1: Corpus Christie, Texas and trained there, and I had been

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Speaker 1: so they were trying to meet the numbers for the year.

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Speaker 1: So they were flying me twice a day, which was rare,

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Speaker 1: and I got accelerated. But I graduated number one of

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Speaker 1: my class. And the history of the Navy is if

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Speaker 1: you graduate number one, you get your choice. And I

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Speaker 1: wanted to fly fighter jets, right. I was a top

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Speaker 1: gun kid. That wasn't you know me growing up? The

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Speaker 1: first version you know that was it had I had

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Speaker 1: the whole roll down the glasses everything. That's all I'd

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Speaker 1: ever wanted to do since I was five six years old.

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Speaker 1: And they had a new platform for props that it

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Speaker 1: was a King air that they just introduced. They hadn't

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Speaker 1: put a student through this airplane yet, and so they

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Speaker 1: took four of us as a test to put us

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Speaker 1: to this class. So they took four of us that

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Speaker 1: were all tops of our classes, just so it would

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Speaker 1: make sure it would go well. And so I was

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Speaker 1: the first guy, at least that I know of in

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Speaker 1: the history at least the last forty years, that graduated

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Speaker 1: number one in his class and didn't get his top choice.

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Speaker 1: So at first I was pretty bummed, but we all know,

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Speaker 1: you know, you get setbacks in life, and it ended

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Speaker 1: up working out for the best. So I went through

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Speaker 1: the PROP training, went through Jacksonville, and when I was

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Speaker 1: in Corpus after I selected PROPS, I was out with

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Speaker 1: a couple of instructors who were awesome guys, kind of

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Speaker 1: kind of odd, and they kind of pulled me aside.

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Speaker 1: So there's only two of these squadrons of the world.

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Speaker 1: Now there's just one. And they were they were like, hey,

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Speaker 1: have you ever thought of going VQ which is electronic warfare,

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Speaker 1: it's reconnaissance, and and I'm like, I hadn't really thought

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Speaker 1: about it, and they're like, well, we'd like you to

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Speaker 1: consider it. So this is a you know, these two

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Speaker 1: squadrons pretty much hand select who's going to come in

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Speaker 1: right and be part of the brotherhood so to speak, sisterhood,

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Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it. But and so I

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Speaker 1: got interested in it. But I speak Spanish, So there's

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Speaker 1: one squadron wouldby island watching in VQ one, and then

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Speaker 1: there's another VQ two. It's it's now in what would be,

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Speaker 1: but it's in Rhodea, Spain, like literally on the beach.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh, I'm going VQ two. I want

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Speaker 3: VQ two. Guess what they sent me to VQ one.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, you got me. I say, I'm going to

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Speaker 3: meet my wife over there. This is going to be great,

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Speaker 3: you know they do. All their tours are to like

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Speaker 3: suit of bate Crete and Europe.

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Speaker 1: And you know, so with the island on the west

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Speaker 1: coast goes to Massawa, Japan, which is the northern tip

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Speaker 1: the frozen tundra of Japan, Okinawa, Bahrain. You know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. It's it's it's you know, you're covering the

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Speaker 1: important areas of the world. Don't get me wrong, but

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Speaker 1: as far as places are deployed to, they're they're not

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Speaker 1: not near as uh enticing as Souda Bay and you know,

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Speaker 1: Germany and things like that. But it works out, like

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Speaker 1: I said, once again, it works out.

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Speaker 2: So the Navy, the Navy took a Spanish speaking naval

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Speaker 2: officer and instead of sending that person to Spain. They

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Speaker 2: sent him to Japan.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, we're basically beyond as north of Seattle, and

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Speaker 1: it's a fishing town and it is one of those

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Speaker 1: beautiful places on Earth if you're married. I was not.

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Speaker 1: You've got to drive an hour half to see to

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Speaker 1: even see a female like you got to go to

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Speaker 1: Seattle or Vancouver, which we went to Vancouver a lot

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Speaker 1: because this was just a little small fishing town and

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Speaker 1: they didn't particularly like us there that much. You know,

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Speaker 1: the local fishermen didn't care for us. So it was

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Speaker 1: it was interesting, it was beautiful, but not a place

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Speaker 1: for a young single guy to be.

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Speaker 2: Today, I want to talk about something that's been on

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Speaker 2: the minds of many Americans lately, energy independence. With rising

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Speaker 2: energy prices and geopolitical tensions, it's more important than ever

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Speaker 2: for our country to be self sufficient when it comes

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Speaker 2: to our energy needs. And that's where Deep Well Services

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Speaker 2: comes in. They're a company that's not only dedicated to

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Speaker 2: delivering top not services to the oil and gas industry,

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Speaker 2: but they're also committed to the goal of American energy independence.

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Speaker 2: With their cutting edge technology and expert team of professionals,

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Speaker 2: they're helping to unlock new sources of domestic energy and

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Speaker 2: reduce our dependence on foreign oil. But that's not all.

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Speaker 2: Deep Well Services is also a great American company that's

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Speaker 2: hiring like crazy right now, and they're not just looking

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Speaker 2: for anyone. They're seeking out talented and hard working individuals

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Speaker 2: who want to join their team and make a difference.

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Speaker 2: And with competitive salaries and benefits, it's a great opportunity

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Speaker 2: to not only work for a patriotic company, but also

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Speaker 2: build a rewarding career in the energy sector. So if

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Speaker 2: you're looking for a job with purpose and meaning, or

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Speaker 2: if you're simply passionate about American energy independence, then you

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Speaker 2: should definitely check out Deep Well Services. Visit their website

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Speaker 2: at Deepwellservices dot com to learn more about their company

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Speaker 2: and career opportunities. So how did you not? So you

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Speaker 2: didn't get your first choice out of flight school? And

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Speaker 2: for me, if the terminology is incorrect, but you didn't

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Speaker 2: get your first after after you left flight school because

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Speaker 2: you were selected for an experimental program or something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. They Yeah, they had a new airframe, a new

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Speaker 1: airplane that they were going to start training, and they

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Speaker 1: didn't even have simulators for it. It's just a King

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Speaker 1: Air two hundred. But they wanted to make sure that

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Speaker 1: you know, it was successful, right, and it you know,

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Speaker 1: it all worked out. I mean I was promised my

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Speaker 1: choice of assignment for taking this on, and that didn't

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Speaker 1: that got changed because the needs of the Navy or

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Speaker 1: are more than the needs of Shane Osborne. Right, it

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Speaker 1: just learned at the time. You're upseven. Now I look

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Speaker 1: back on I'm like, yeah, that stuff in the military,

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Speaker 1: and you know what I'm talking about, it's not the

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Speaker 1: good days that built you, it's the bad ones. Right.

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Speaker 1: It's not getting what you want, it's getting what the

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Speaker 1: Navy needs and just taking it and understanding that you know,

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Speaker 1: there is a cause greater than your own personal want

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Speaker 1: of wanting to be on the beach and rode to

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Speaker 1: Spain as opposed to wid bey on on Washington. And

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Speaker 1: that's just you know, the wonderful life lessons that you

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Speaker 1: just I don't think you can get outside of the military.

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Speaker 1: Maybe there's other places you can learn some of this stuff,

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Speaker 1: but you know, going with a crew to pulling halfway

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Speaker 1: around the world and having that responsibility and taking that on,

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Speaker 1: that's just something you're not going to get in the

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Speaker 1: civilian world.

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Speaker 2: I completely agree that age. No, I completely agree with you.

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Speaker 2: How old were you during all this?

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Speaker 1: So I literally I graduated college when I was twenty one,

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Speaker 1: and I graduated flight school in literally under two years,

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Speaker 1: which is very rare. And so by the time I

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Speaker 1: was a mission commander, I was the youngest mission commander

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Speaker 1: in our squadron seventy eighty. Well it's been gosh eighty

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Speaker 1: ninety years now, God, I'm getting old. But history. So

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Speaker 1: I was like a brand new O three. I just

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Speaker 1: pinned it on and I was a mission commander in

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Speaker 1: charge of that airplane when my incident happened in China.

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Speaker 1: I'd only been flying as an aircraft commander for ninety

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Speaker 1: hours until the min air happened. I was I was

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Speaker 1: pretty young and pretty green.

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Speaker 2: Well that's crazy, because you know, you talk, you talk

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Speaker 2: about like the needs of the Navy, and you know

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Speaker 2: at that time, I mean, because you you extended your

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Speaker 2: tour after nine to eleven, and this was just when

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Speaker 2: I mean nine to eleven was was that moment that

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Speaker 2: I decided to join. So that's what drove me into service.

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Speaker 2: Got I don't come from a long line of like

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Speaker 2: military generals or something. I was just a kid that

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Speaker 2: saw our country attacked and wanted to get in the fight.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, did the operational tempo like because there, I

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Speaker 2: feel like we had a very different military prior to

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Speaker 2: September eleventh, and then nine to eleven happens. Not only

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Speaker 2: does it not only does it change our military and

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Speaker 2: the operational tempo, but it also changed our country forever.

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Speaker 2: I feel like, did you notice a big change in

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Speaker 2: the way and it's more sense of urgency or what?

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Speaker 2: Did you notice a change before and after nine eleven?

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Speaker 1: A little bit? But the unique thing about my squadron

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Speaker 1: VQ one and the VQ two is there was only

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Speaker 1: two of them and we had to cover. We were

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Speaker 1: collecting intelligence and peace time and war time, right, so

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Speaker 1: we do combat missions, but also you got you know,

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Speaker 1: we had patches. It's that were a ripoff of Ronald Reagan.

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Speaker 1: It's said in God, we trust all others we monitor.

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Speaker 1: So we we really had an op tempo where we

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Speaker 1: were deployed, not going out six months and then coming

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Speaker 1: back for a year, year and a half and going

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Speaker 1: you know, we deployed. We've been deployed three hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixty five days a year and at least two or

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Speaker 1: three locations around the world. My squadron for the last

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Speaker 1: since World War Two, so our op tempo. I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to say it didn't step up a little. It

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Speaker 1: just changed where we were at more because we used

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Speaker 1: to kind of move around. We started completely we'll get

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Speaker 1: into this player, but it started, you know, after nine

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Speaker 1: to eleven, started oring the Far East in China, which

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Speaker 1: is ridiculous. But the fact is that we were always deployed,

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Speaker 1: and that was the cool thing about our squadern. I

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Speaker 1: I went out as a twenty six year old young

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Speaker 1: O three lieutenant and I was it like I would

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Speaker 1: deploy with the crew and some maintenance. I was in

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Speaker 1: charge of everything. I had no adult supermission to speak of.

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Speaker 1: There was no commanders there. They were back in with

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Speaker 1: the island, you know, monitoring things. So we'd have a site,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe a crew in Massle, maybe a crew

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Speaker 1: in Kadena, and maybe in a crew in Bahrain, and

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Speaker 1: so I was in charge of that crew. I was

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Speaker 1: you know, you're setting up housing, you're making sure, you know,

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Speaker 1: everything's taken care of, the maintenance of the airplane. So

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Speaker 1: it was a really huge responsibility that was pretty cool

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Speaker 1: and unique.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing the level of responsibility that the United States

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Speaker 2: military gives to twenty somethings. It's it's and it's it's.

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Speaker 2: I hear story after story of people like like you, Shane,

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Speaker 2: who have like like who've just given enormous responsibilities, and

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Speaker 2: like it's it's so funny. Like as a young platoon leader.

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Speaker 2: So in Afghanistan, I was twenty three, twenty four years old,

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Speaker 2: it was a platoon leader in charge of forty men.

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Speaker 2: Come back for six leading those guys through combat, right,

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Speaker 2: like those guys, those men, because back then in the infantry,

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Speaker 2: it's just men, but like they were, they were. It's

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Speaker 2: basically like I was the CEO of a company of

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Speaker 2: forty Basically you signed for everything. You know, it's it's

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Speaker 2: just you're an executive essentially. And then I come back

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Speaker 2: after three years of an experience like that, I'm promoted

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Speaker 2: to executive officer of an infantry company, which is one

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Speaker 2: hundred and twenty people. And basically the job description of

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Speaker 2: an executive officer, the second in the chain of command

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Speaker 2: of the company commander is you just basically do everything

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Speaker 2: that the company commander doesn't want to do, which is

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Speaker 2: basically everything that's not leading people in the field. So

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Speaker 2: if you're not if you're not deployed, you're doing basically

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Speaker 2: everything that includes like beans, bullets, logistics. But again, I

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Speaker 2: was twenty seven, and then I took an interim company

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Speaker 2: command at twenty eight, and then a battalion rear detachment

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Speaker 2: command in charge of a battalion at twenty nine. So

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Speaker 2: it's like where and then you come back to the

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Speaker 2: civilian world, Shane, and I have to admit this is

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Speaker 2: a little bit like shocking to me just how little

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Speaker 2: civilians truly understand how much authority and power that young

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Speaker 2: military officers have. And I often wonder, I mean, because

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Speaker 2: you're the CEO of a successful company now, Shane, but

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Speaker 2: I often wonder it is it do you say, do

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Speaker 2: you get the same sense that there is a huge

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Speaker 2: communication gap or a huge gap between you know, the

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Speaker 2: type of service at veterans had blows away.

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Speaker 1: It blows me away, even with people that have like brothers, sisters,

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Speaker 1: kids in the military, just how little they truly know

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Speaker 1: about the mile.

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Speaker 2: It's so true, you know, I mean, there's.

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Speaker 1: The responsibility aspect. They all, they all, they all think

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Speaker 1: we act like we're in boot camp the entire time

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Speaker 1: you know, yelling orders at each other or all the time.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, no, oh, that would work at all.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but you know they think that, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're it's like, it's just it. But over time. At

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Speaker 1: first it's shocking. When I got out, I kind of

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Speaker 1: went into a depression. I didn't know what to do.

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Speaker 1: I got into the civilian world and we call everybody

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Speaker 1: vice presidents and stuffy, give everybody all these type I know,

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Speaker 1: but it could mean you're like the number two guy

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Speaker 1: at JP Morgan, or you're a nobody like I just like,

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Speaker 1: what does this mean? Now? I strongly believe you treat

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Speaker 1: everybody the same, so it doesn't matter final That's not

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying. It was just so confusing to me.

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Speaker 1: You know, in the military, you had a rank, you

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Speaker 1: had you had an MOS or whatever, you know, what

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Speaker 1: you did and that, and so it was pretty uneasy

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Speaker 1: to understand where you were in the food chain and

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Speaker 1: what your responsibilities were. And in the civilian world it

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Speaker 1: was it was so less structured that I've been used

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Speaker 1: to that structure. It just took a while to adjust

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Speaker 1: and I kind of find the civilian world pretty There's

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Speaker 1: tough challenges of just don't get me wrong, but nobody's

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Speaker 1: shooting at you, you know what I mean? And that

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Speaker 1: I think that perspective as a veteran helps me chill

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Speaker 1: out when something doesn't the deal doesn't go behin, right,

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Speaker 1: I lose a big deal that this costs me millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars, things like that, where most people be freaking out.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like, Okay, that sucked. Moving on, Yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: the old saying and embrace the sun, right, just take it,

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Speaker 1: breathe it in, smile a little bit, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: take an evening and have a few and then get

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Speaker 1: back at it. Man, I.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny. It's amazing like you you being in

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Speaker 2: the navy, me being in the army, but our experiences

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Speaker 2: are so so similar. I just it never ceases to

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Speaker 2: amaze me how that tends to be the case of veterans,

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Speaker 2: you know. So take me back to the moment where

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Speaker 2: those two instructors are are coming to you and saying, like,

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Speaker 2: have you ever thought of what do you call it?

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Speaker 1: Like?

382
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Speaker 2: Electronic warfare?

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Speaker 1: It's called yeah, it's called electronic warfare. The capabilities of

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Speaker 1: that planet's getting it's going to be getting retired.

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Speaker 2: Here which plane, Shane to eat the EP three PEP three.

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Speaker 1: So this is a big four engine prop. When people

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Speaker 1: I tell people I flew a spy plane, this isn't

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Speaker 1: a seventy one. It's not sexy mock one. This is

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Speaker 1: a slow We called it the Skypig, and it's not

390
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Speaker 1: hanging off everywhere. You know, if we go faster than

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Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty knots, things start for playing and

392
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Speaker 1: tennis and stuff. So we're literally limited to two hundred

393
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Speaker 1: and fifty knots. It's the size of the seven thirty seven,

394
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Speaker 1: like a Southwest chap So it's it's a big converted airliner,

395
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Speaker 1: is what it is.

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Speaker 2: So so you, first of all, you could totally and

397
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Speaker 2: you should tell people that you fly SR seventy ones.

398
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Speaker 2: I mean, like you, I think with your experience, like.

399
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Speaker 1: Your experience leble allergies. I keep cough out.

400
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Speaker 2: Oh god, Shane, it's okay, it's okay. But you should

401
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 2: totally tell people that because your job is the job

402
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 2: that you did just sounds super cool. And also the

403
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Speaker 2: sky Pig is like the worst nickname ever for an airplane.

404
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 1: Sounds ridiculous. This thing is. It's not pretty, but it

405
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Speaker 1: was We had a lot of cool gear on that airplane.

406
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Speaker 1: We can do a lot of you know, the crew

407
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Speaker 1: of twenty four people, that's a big crew. That is

408
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,639
Speaker 1: a huge you know, that's yeah, we have we had

409
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Speaker 1: all we covered the full spectrum of intelligence gathering on

410
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Speaker 1: that thing.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, so you explained, explain to people what like

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Speaker 2: the mission was the stuff that you can talk about

413
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Speaker 2: because sure, you know you hear it's a spy plane.

414
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 2: But and I as a military guy, I want to

415
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Speaker 2: ask you about the capabilities of the plane. But of

416
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Speaker 2: course you might not be able to talk about that.

417
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Speaker 2: But like, what what was the mission? When you say

418
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Speaker 2: electronic warfare?

419
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Speaker 1: Sure, the mission very depending on if it was wartime

420
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Speaker 1: or peace time. Peace time, We're just trying to figure

421
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Speaker 1: out how the enemy operates, right, So we're listening, we're watching,

422
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Speaker 1: We're detecting all types of different spec frum everything from

423
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Speaker 1: communications to signals to everything to just see how they communicate,

424
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Speaker 1: how they work. You know, we we we didn't fly

425
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Speaker 1: over obviously, we stayed out international airspace. But you know,

426
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Speaker 1: they would react to different sectors differently depending on where

427
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,239
Speaker 1: you were at, like on the coast of China, right

428
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 1: the southern area operated completely differently than the northern and

429
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Speaker 1: so I don't want to get too specific, but that

430
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Speaker 1: was and then in wartime we we the fighter jets

431
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Speaker 1: didn't go in if us or we there's a Rivet

432
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 1: Joint RC. One th five. The air force had to

433
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 1: be airborne because we would we would let them know

434
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 1: if they were about to get shot. Basically, I'm just para.

435
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 1: But we knew if the enemy knew where where the

436
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 1: fighters were, so we would also locate things on the ground. Right,

437
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: we could pinpoint the location. So not only were we listening,

438
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 1: we knew you're at So like the beginning of Afghanistan,

439
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 1: they for some reason thought if it was nighttime, they

440
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 1: could do whatever the hell they wanted. Right, We're talking

441
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: literally the very first months of that of the war.

442
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: And it was like you know, and they would get

443
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 1: chatty Kathy on the radios while they were driving around

444
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: in their cones, you know. So we'd sit in and

445
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 1: listen in with our you know, linguists, and and had

446
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: to make that call good guy, bad guy, right, and

447
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: then you call it in and give them the location

448
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: and we'd say he hit this spot and they'd hit it.

449
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: Okay, So this is This is fascinating to me because

450
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 2: so we would we would have intel passed to us

451
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 2: from like Rivet Joint.

452
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:47,239
Speaker 1: Or aircraft like you, and that was us. And by

453
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: the way, we never knew what the hell that was.

454
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just learning about it now. I mean

455
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 2: I've been out for Dan Bear over ten years, and

456
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 2: I still like because we would get this intel passed

457
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 2: down from us, and and we would we would like

458
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 2: take the intel that was passed from these airplanes and

459
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 2: because you know, pass on like what they were saying

460
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 2: and where you thought they would be, and oftentimes it's

461
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 2: it's they can one kilometer by one kilometer area, or

462
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 2: sometimes it's even more specific than that, and we would

463
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 2: we would take those locations in those eight digit grid

464
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 2: coordinates and plot them on our map and say, oh, man,

465
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 2: like this, yeah, this is the enemy and because this

466
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 2: is a historical ambush site and they must be there

467
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 2: planning an attack. So what we would do once we

468
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 2: got that intel is we would take our howitzers and

469
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 2: we would fire harassment and interdiction fires on those sites

470
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 2: after we got the intel from you, to let the

471
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: enemy know that like we know where they are and

472
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 2: we can monitor what they're saying. I mean, that's fascinating

473
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 2: that you can do that from that high up in

474
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 2: the air. We had people on the ground that that,

475
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: you know, I don't think by the way this, I

476
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 2: don't think I'm disclosing anything that's that's secret here. Because

477
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: the enemy knew. The enemy had their own com sect

478
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 2: that communication security. They would say like, for example, yeah,

479
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 2: like woods, they moved the wood from here to there.

480
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,959
Speaker 2: They were talking about wood meant rockets. So they had

481
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: their own communications purity because they knew that we were

482
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: monitoring what they were saying.

483
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it took him a while to figure it out.

484
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: They made it was it was. It was not not

485
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: smarter on their part those first probably six to eight

486
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 1: months of the war.

487
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 2: I'll tell you that even when I was there in

488
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 2: two thousand and six, this was five years after you're

489
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 2: talking about, we would still meet remote tribes in and

490
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 2: like in eastern Afghanistan that had never seen an American

491
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 2: And I mean there's no TVs, there's no electricity, there's

492
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 2: no running water, there's no cable.

493
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: They get no news like and I mean, like if you.

494
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 2: Want to go back to a time when Christ walked

495
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 2: the earth and an Ak forty seven and a pickup

496
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 2: truck and at Icon Radio and that's Afghanistan. And like

497
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 2: these people like we would we would lace targets for

498
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 2: fixed wing aircraft or close airsport for jadeam or something.

499
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: And they were thinking that, like they thought that we

500
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 2: were like wizards, like we were calling this stuff down

501
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 2: from heaven on them. And I'm not even exaggerating. They

502
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: they thought it was magic.

503
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 1: No, it's amazing how far removed they are from modern society.

504
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,479
Speaker 1: You just don't even think it could exist.

505
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,959
Speaker 2: It's like it's truly we're on the ground in Afghanistan

506
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 2: and it was the closest thing to real life, you know,

507
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,959
Speaker 2: the Flintstones meet the Jetsons, you know, because they they

508
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 2: would see stuff we would get out of our trucks,

509
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 2: you know, and our helmets or some are glasses, blistic glasses,

510
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 2: gloves covered from head to toe and armor, like we'd

511
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,479
Speaker 2: look like we were some damn alien like climbing out

512
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 2: of a spacecraft or something.

513
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: You know. So, yeah, it's crazy, but it's fascinating to

514
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 1: me to hear that. How are you able?

515
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 2: How do you know? So we get intel from you,

516
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 2: right and we know that it's coming from higher that's

517
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: basically how that's basically how we know.

518
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: But where how do you know where to look? Well,

519
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: I mean you've got you've got his historical stuff going on.

520
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: You've got certain methods in your scanning too, Right, you're

521
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: not always precise. So that's why we had such a

522
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: big crew. Right, we're monitoring a lot of different channel.

523
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: When I was i'd be a flying I would have

524
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: probably ten twelve different conversations going on and one some

525
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: in the left ear some of the right because I'm

526
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 1: monitoring the back that's going on while I'm flying the airplane.

527
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: Because I was the mission commander too, I wasn't just

528
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 1: the aircraft commander. And so you're you're hearing all these

529
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: reports and then you're hearing your your folks in the

530
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: back talking to each other as they're trying to we're

531
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: trying to verify, right, we don't just go okay, we've

532
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 1: found some people. Yeah, you know, we got to make

533
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: sure that they're bad guys and not just some you know,

534
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: poor bastard trying to get the hell out of there.

535
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: You know, at the start of the war, you know,

536
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 1: because a lot of people just run into Iran and

537
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: run in the pack standing to get out of town.

538
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: They didn't want, you know, and so you had to

539
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: make that determination. So it took a lot of different

540
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: We didn't want to just go up a one source.

541
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: We'd want to make sure we're verified. And that's why

542
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: I said. Beginning, it was just crazy what they were

543
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: saying on the radios and stuff. You know, it was

544
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: like they were just oblivious. And then they started, you know,

545
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: like you said, use some comsect on it and get

546
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: a little better about it. But those first few months,

547
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 1: it was like, I can't believe they just said that

548
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: on the radio, you know what I mean. It's like, Okay,

549
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: that's that's pretty convincing to me.

550
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 2: We're moving Osama bin Laden to this address. I so

551
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 2: what altitude do you fly at?

552
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: Oh jeez, we're at like twenty four thousand feet. The

553
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,239
Speaker 1: plane has so many holes in it from all these

554
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: dishes and stuff attached to it. We couldn't pressurize and

555
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: get any higher. Now, the Ribbit joint was is a

556
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: seven oh seven, so they can get up in the thirties.

557
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: They could cover a lot more ground because the higher

558
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: you are, the more electrons are hitting the airplane. Right,

559
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: So the larger area you can cover and monitor. Does

560
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: that make sense? No, No, that's you want. Well, you know,

561
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: it's all about the curvature of the earth, right, So

562
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: the higher you are, the more it's going to hit you.

563
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: More electrons are going to hit your airplane.

564
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 2: More electrons.

565
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and radio signals, radar, everything. This is why you fly.

566
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: You know, I'm just I'm just a simple ground pounding

567
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 2: grunt like electrons.

568
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: Don't kid yourself. I'm not that bright.

569
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 2: Okay, So you got to tell me, you got to

570
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:36,959
Speaker 2: tell me. So you had, like you gained international recognition.

571
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 2: I mean, what when you're when your spy plane crashed

572
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 2: into a Chinese aircraft?

573
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,719
Speaker 1: Was it a MiG Yeah, it was a J eight.

574
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: It was an indigenously produced fighter plane, but a big

575
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: one kind of like it looks a lot like the

576
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: old F four Phantom. It was that size. So it

577
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: was a big, old Cold War era fighter dead. So

578
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: we monitor constantly. Like I said earlier, you know, all

579
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: of our friends and foes quite frankly, you know, and

580
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: we were used to you know, we got off the

581
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: coast of China. But when this occurred, this incident occurred

582
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: April first, two thousand and one. So it was prior

583
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: to September eleventh, and Bush had just taken office. And

584
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: as you know, those guys were all hawkish as hell

585
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: to say the least, right, they tensions with China went

586
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: up with Jane as a man quick, right. So we

587
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: went from doing a few missions to a lot of

588
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: missions off of China. You know, we do one or

589
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: two a week, two five days a week, right, and

590
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: it was pissing them off. We would stay off the coast.

591
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,239
Speaker 1: We were, you know, operating an international airspace. Don't get

592
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: me wrong, but it just you know, nobody just like

593
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: we freak out when the Russians come over near Alaska. Right,

594
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,719
Speaker 1: It's like, now they can operate there, that's international law.

595
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: Stop making it a big deal. It's when it's unprofessional

596
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: that it becomes a big deal. Right. So they had

597
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: a particular squadron leader that was getting more and more

598
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: at reps. And like I said, I was a brand

599
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: new mission commander. This was my first deployment as a

600
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: mission commander. You know, I had maybe ninety hours as

601
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: a commander, and so which is not a lot when

602
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: you fly ten eleven hour missions, you know what I mean.

603
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: Just to put it in a perceptive ninety hours is

604
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: you know, I'd done some training and maybe six or

605
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: seven missions, right, not much, and so he was getting

606
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: more and more harassing. And you know, they this had

607
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: gone on with the Russians and the Cold War. They'd

608
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: intercept and come up and thump you, which means, you know,

609
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: they go underneath the airplane and go vertical right in

610
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: front of you and make you fly through their jetwash,

611
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: which shakes the hell out of the airplane. We were

612
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: actually used to that. But the Russians knew how to fly.

613
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: They were trained in formation training. Back then. The Chinese

614
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: didn't even teach form flying. They've come a long way.

615
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: This is two thousand and one. They've come a long way,

616
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: trust me. But back then they didn't even train in

617
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: their own squadrons flying formation off of each other. So

618
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: now they're coming up trying to harass us, and they're

619
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: flying off our wing, trying to fly form off a

620
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: slow plane doing like one hundred and eighty knots at

621
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: twenty four thousand feet. Well, fighter jets aren't built the

622
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: fly that slow that high, so they're unstable and that

623
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: was really the problem. So in the weeks leading up

624
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: to this he'd become more and more harassing. They'd come

625
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: out usually with two, sometimes four, but most of the

626
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: time two fighter jets and they just sit out there

627
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: and we'd exchange hand signals the windows and stuff like that,

628
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: and you know, it was it was so crazy. I

629
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: look back at now, that was it started to become

630
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: everyday life. Like literally, I'm unarmed flying a slow, lumbering

631
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: prop in the middle of the ocean, and I've got

632
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: a fighter jet with missiles on. It threatened me, you know,

633
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: on a daily basis. And so this day we were

634
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: literally done with the mission. We were like ten minutes

635
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: from going home. We get in, we get we get

636
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: instructions that we're going to be intercepted, and so I said, okay,

637
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: we're staying on because that's when you collect good intel, right,

638
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: they're talking into their base, you're figuring out what's going on.

639
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: You're going to see their tactics, et cetera. So instead

640
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: of just running, I stayed. That's, you know, that's my call.

641
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: Some would say that was aggressive. I don't think it was.

642
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: I think it was my damn job. And so we

643
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: stayed and this guy came up and this time, instead

644
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: of staying off my winging like forty fifty feet. He

645
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: came up and he was in between my props like

646
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: three feet away, and I'm like, what in the hell.

647
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,479
Speaker 1: So I'm calling back to my navigator, going check our

648
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: position because I thought we were screwed up and we're

649
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: in their airspace? Do you know what I mean? I mean,

650
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: this was like, this ain't good. So I immediately called back,

651
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: going you know, nab to Regina Kaufman. She was We

652
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: called her the pocket Nab. She was about five foot tall,

653
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: so we called her pocket Man and and she's like, no,

654
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: we're way, We're not even. And I said okay. So

655
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: he comes up twice and one time he stalled underneath

656
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: me lost controlled flight fell off. So they turned away

657
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, they're turning away. It's time to

658
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: go home, right And I'm thinking, oh my god, this

659
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: is I knew that right then. The President would know

660
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: about this in about two minutes. That's how serious this was.

661
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: So I'm turned around, headed towards Okinawa. I'm starting to

662
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: speed up to go home, because when we're on station,

663
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: we go as slow as we can to say gas,

664
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: so we can stay there longer. Right, So I'm speeding up.

665
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: I got the autopilot on. All of a sudden, I

666
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: get a call from the back and they said, here

667
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: they come again. And I'm like, what in the hell

668
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: is this guy doing because they usually came once, stayed

669
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: a while, messed around, and left right now, this was

670
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: the third intercept of this flight, which for me had

671
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: never happened. I'm not saying it never happened before, but

672
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: not to me. And so the third time he came in,

673
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: he came from behind us too fast, and he tried

674
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,800
Speaker 1: to slow down by pitching his nose up, and he

675
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: went right into my left prop, so where his tail,

676
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: you know, meets his fuselage or the airplane right there,

677
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 1: my left far left engine cut him in half. It's

678
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: like the best way to describe it as if you're

679
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: a redneck like I am, it's like it's like doing

680
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: one hundred miles an hour down a gravel road and

681
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: hitting walk forward. That's the best way I had to

682
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: describe it. If you've ever done drive driven gravel road,

683
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: you know at that point you're just along for the ride.

684
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: You hope it stays on the road. And so as

685
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: it cut his plane in half, my nose flipped violently

686
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 1: to the left, obviously because my wing had just been impacted.

687
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 1: His tail broke off, tore through my aileron which turns

688
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: the airplane, tore a hole through that, and then his

689
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: nose broke apart, hit my nose and tore my nose

690
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 1: completely off of the airplane. And next thing I know,

691
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: we're inverted in it were we were in an inverted

692
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: die for almost two miles. Are you in the airline?

693
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: You know, the planes exploded and there's you know, I

694
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: had and I just thought were dead. And I look down,

695
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: I'm looking, you know, I'm looking up at the ocean,

696
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: and I see his plane, half of it, the front fuselage,

697
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 1: with like a two block flame bursting out of the

698
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: back of it. You know, He's going straight towards the ocean.

699
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: And I was like, man, he's you know, he's going quick.

700
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: And I realized we were falling at almost the same rate.

701
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: You know, that's my reference point. I saw him punch out.

702
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: He literally asked for permission to eject. This is the

703
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: kind of government. This guy's going down in flames and

704
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: he's calling his commander to ask for permission to eject.

705
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: It's insane. That probably I probably should have just said that,

706
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: but I did anyway. So we were falling at this

707
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: rate and I'm like, I'm trying to get the plane

708
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: right side up. And I finally got it right side up,

709
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:37,919
Speaker 1: and we're still in a nose dive. But I knew

710
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: it just it was taken full right, right righter to

711
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,280
Speaker 1: hold the plane up. But I just had this feeling

712
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: of don't pull, don't pull, don't pull, And it was

713
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: God plain and simple. And I'll tell you why in

714
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: a minute. So we started out twenty four thousand feet.

715
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: I got the plane somewhat out of the diet at

716
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: about seven thousand feet. So that's a long that's a

717
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 1: long drop. And I can't even I can't believe the decompoy.

718
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: We had explosive decompression. So there's winds screaming through the airplane.

719
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: There's cables that were torn off when the nose was departed,

720
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,959
Speaker 1: their slapping the wind screen. My left engine, that prop

721
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: is out there. It just didn't cut him in half.

722
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: And so now that engine had obviously failed and the

723
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: prop went flat, so it's out their windmilling. It's like

724
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: tying a parachute to your left wing. Aerodynamically, speaking, it's

725
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: causing that kind of force. So I'm holding this and

726
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,720
Speaker 1: I'm a big guy. Took it. Tore my shoulder apart.

727
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,720
Speaker 1: Holding this airplane up. It took us thirty five minutes,

728
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: and so I knew we had specific instructions depending on

729
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: the target country of what we're supposed to do in

730
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 1: an implight emergency. And back then we pulled our carriers

731
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: into China. Still like there was a lot of controversies

732
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: laterally saying, oh, why didn't you crash into the ocean.

733
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, I had specific directive orders to destroy the

734
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: equipment and land and that's what we did. So now

735
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: the crew in the back, they've been pinned to the

736
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: floor and as Inverdant died and I'm calling back to

737
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: him saying, one, get your parachute on to activate the

738
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: destruction checklist. So they're opening up the emergency exits over

739
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: the wings and they're chopping up the gear and chucking

740
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: it out. In the meantime, the other finer jet rolled

741
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 1: on our six and asked for permission to shoot us down,

742
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: and they, thank god, told him no. And so you know,

743
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: I'm trying to hold this plane up. I've got two

744
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 1: of my four engines damaged, no nose, and my tail

745
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: was really acting weird. I couldn't get the forces out.

746
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: I had to hold force onto it. Usually you can

747
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: trim it out. I don't want to be too technical,

748
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:38,919
Speaker 1: but when I'd landed and later infected the airplane, there's

749
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: a wire that goes from the very tip of the

750
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: of the roof of the cockpit to the tail. The

751
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: front had torn off and it had wrapped around my tail. Okay,

752
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: so I had a wire jammed in an elevator which

753
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: makes the plane go up and down. Not good. Well, later,

754
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: when I was back the people that took the airplane apart,

755
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: one of the engineers I was getting ready to go.

756
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 1: I was actually one of them on an instructor. I

757
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: had two students going to fly. This is months later.

758
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: Comes out, he says, hey, the ten osband I took

759
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: apart in your plan. I said, great, I'm going to

760
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: go flying from the top of it back. He goes,

761
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: you know you always complained about that wiren't your tast

762
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 1: And I said yeah. He goes yeah. When we unraveled it,

763
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: the elevator fell off the airplane. That wire wrapped around

764
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: my tails was keeping me up in the air, so

765
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: we were calling may days, They're not answering us. We

766
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: have to come in. And I didn't want to fly

767
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 1: over the top of the city because this plane's disintegrated,

768
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to kill a bunch of people

769
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: if we came apart. So I had a maneuver. Now

770
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 1: I knew where every airbase is on the east coast

771
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 1: of China. I'll just leave it at that right, So

772
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 1: I knew where I was going, and it was the

773
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: exact airbase where these guys were out of. So we

774
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: came around, but by then I lost my altitude, so

775
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: I didn't have any air speed. They were torn off,

776
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: so all we had was the navigator calling out our

777
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: GPS speed. But my flats were damaged. I had two

778
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: engines out of the four, and I didn't even know

779
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: if my landing you were going to come down because

780
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: he hit my nose. I didn't know if my nose

781
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: it was going to come down. I couldn't dump fuel miaged,

782
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: so I'm like twenty five thousand pounds overweight. So we

783
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: ended up touching down at over one hundred and eighty

784
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,959
Speaker 1: knots because the plane wentn't flying slower you normally landed

785
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: about one fifteen. So now we're overweight, we're landing, you know.

786
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: And so it took everything I happened to get that

787
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: plane stop before it went off the end of the runway.

788
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: And so, you know, you touch down and you're like,

789
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: holy crap, the good Lord just stepped in. Clearly this

790
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: wasn't this wasn't mine and the other skill right, you know,

791
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: the engineers, everybody did a great job, but there's more

792
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: involved here. And so you know, you're you're just your

793
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: adrenaline as pumping as you know it exactly. It's just

794
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: it's like being in a fire, you know, the adrenaline

795
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 1: is maxed out. And now I'm looking around and I

796
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: pull over to the side of the runway. Up comes

797
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: to troop carriers and a bunch of guys with a

798
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: KA forty seven surrounding my airplane. I'm like, gosh, yeah,

799
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: I wish I was just going to the officers club

800
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 1: to have a drink right now. I'm not going to

801
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 1: deal with this shit, you know. And so we made

802
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: sure we were destroying any of the last radios before

803
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: we got a satellite call out, and uh, and then

804
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: I you know, I didn't want to get anybody killed.

805
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: So I took everybody off the airplane at gunpoint and

806
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: then Alan started sean. That was the flying I'd been

807
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 1: well trained for. You know, we pulled it off. The

808
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: crew did a great job. But now you know, the

809
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,240
Speaker 1: interrogations began and they isolated me. Was out of the commander.

810
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: So they basically kept me awake in a stool for

811
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:31,720
Speaker 1: about eight days trying to break me. And a funny

812
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: side story is that I hit it. I hit it

813
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: from the Navy. But I've had sleep at me all

814
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: my life, and so back then, I when I got tested,

815
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: when I got the Navy, they said, you're sleeping about

816
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: an hour a day. That's all the sleep you're getting.

817
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 1: You're functioning. We don't know how you're doing it. But

818
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: here here you go. Here's here's a seapap. But I've

819
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: had one since I was like thirty two years old.

820
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: It's crazy. It's really great when you're in the dating

821
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 1: sceneing hold on, honey, let me put on my seat.

822
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: But the uh, they got a bit married now, but

823
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: but so so they were very intense, right and people think, oh,

824
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: were you really scared? What you knew? They I'm like

825
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: this is the Chinese. They're gonna do whatever they want.

826
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: I later found that the military cut off communications with

827
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,800
Speaker 1: Beijing said we got this, we'll call you later, literally,

828
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: which I didn't know at the time, and I and

829
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: I wondered because we then got moved later when that broke.

830
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: But for a while, basically the Chinese Navy, their commander said,

831
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear it. I don't want to

832
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: hear from you guys. I'm gonna I'm gonna break these guys.

833
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: And so that you know that changes your job, not

834
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: from just surviving, but my job was to protect my crew,

835
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: and so no matter what they threatened me with, and

836
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: no matter what they said, I knew that, you know,

837
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: it was my job to protect them, and that's that's

838
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: what I did. So the crew stuff together. I was isolated.

839
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: They went on a three day hunger strike, so they

840
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: were able to at least see me at meals, and

841
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: they knew they were gonna have to kill me if

842
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: they were going to get to my crew. So I'm

843
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 1: very proud of the fact that ninety percent of the

844
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 1: crew except the officers, they went through one interrogation for

845
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, with two of them in a room, so

846
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: you got your buddy next to you. And so that's

847
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: about the most, you know, the best accomplishments of all that.

848
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: It wasn't aviation. It was protecting a crew and making

849
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: sure everybody you know, got home intact.

850
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 2: How I have so many questions I've never heard. Look,

851
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 2: I've been in some crazy ass situations, combat situations, life

852
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 2: and desk situations, more firefights than I can possibly recount,

853
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 2: but I have never heard anything like this ever. And

854
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,439
Speaker 2: it's like something that you'd see out of a movie,

855
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, honestly, how.

856
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: Did you do? The funniest thing is is I did

857
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: the book Sean right. Lionsgate was going to do the movie.

858
00:43:54,560 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: They wrote a script and the Chinese killed it. They

859
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: pulled it because they fund Hollywood. Yeah, well that's exactly right.

860
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: I still can't go there. They still consider me a

861
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: murder and a spy.

862
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 2: That is complete, That is complete bullshit. That that that Hollywood,

863
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 2: lions Gate, that they killed this project. First of all, Oh, they.

864
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: Would deny it, but I got I got told by

865
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: somebody who you know. Well, of course it makes it

866
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: makes what we hear. You hear the stories all the time,

867
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: So of.

868
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: Course you know, the people that are watching and listening

869
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 2: to this, to this program are gonna they completely get it.

870
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 1: Of course, this is how it is.

871
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, China. And that's why that's why a lot of

872
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 2: these Hollywood production studios like are afraid to push back

873
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 2: on China because like that's a significant portion of their revenue.

874
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:49,359
Speaker 2: You know, absolutely bullshit. I I how did you How

875
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 2: did you know not? You got twenty three people on

876
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 2: the aircraft? How did you know not? You said it

877
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 2: was a god thing? But how did you know not

878
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:55,919
Speaker 2: to pull?

879
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: Said you were? You know, I just my guts. We

880
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 1: were in such a heavy dive. I was just like

881
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: I was looking out at the horizon. I'm like, I

882
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: got I got some ount to too, and I was

883
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: just thinking, you know, the air gets thicker the lower

884
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 1: you are, so you get more control of the aircraft.

885
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: When you're up high, the air spin, so aircraft are

886
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 1: more unstable. And I was just like, I got to

887
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 1: get down lower, right, I gotta get down lower. And

888
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: I don't I don't really, you know, it was just

889
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was, but but I just

890
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: had this feeling of don't don't force it, you know,

891
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 1: just let this thing come out. You know, you're right

892
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: side up, you're coming out slow. But I took it

893
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: really slow. I mean, could I maybe pull you know,

894
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 1: if the tail wasn't damage, I could have probably got

895
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: out of that diet by thirteen twelve thousand feet. But

896
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: something is my gut just said, don't don't force it.

897
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: You got you got plenty of otitude.

898
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 2: And I knew.

899
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: I knew I was gonna have to go in. And

900
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: people like, well, could you make it back? I'm like,

901
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 1: good lord, this thing was a bad shit, I would

902
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: say the worst.

903
00:45:57,719 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 2: So I was going to ask you, were you able

904
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 2: to talk to your command throughout all of this?

905
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 1: We we yeah. They called back and it was it was.

906
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: It was. It was the middle of the night there,

907
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,280
Speaker 1: and so it was just a watch standard in Hawaii

908
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 1: and this poor guy is getting a call and it

909
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: was on April. It was on April first, like, so,

910
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,240
Speaker 1: so a few people are like, is this some stupid

911
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 1: April fool? Oh God, which I don't do Aprile Fuels

912
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: fool jokes. My all my family knows, don't do the

913
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 1: Aple fool joke.

914
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 2: It's got to be some private or something, right, it

915
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 2: has to be some private like yeah, just the guy.

916
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: He's taking this call, and he said, Tom, can you

917
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 1: can you hold for about five minutes? I need to

918
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: call again. We're like, we can't hold. We're a gunpoint here,

919
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. We got to shut down.

920
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: So you know, I'm sure that you know that guy

921
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: had a rough day, to say the least getting that call, right,

922
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 1: but we got the information out, We let everybody know

923
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: we were alive, you know, and then and then had

924
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: to just destroy the radio.

925
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 2: Okay, so you told me also that your crew were

926
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 2: they were throwing radios out of the plane as you're crashing.

927
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: The crypto gear. The crypto gear in the area. We

928
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 1: have metal suitcases, and they took an axe and they

929
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 1: punch a hole in it and throw it to the

930
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 1: body of the ocean. You know that you're never gonna find.

931
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 2: Well, and if you do, it'll be dissolved, all right,

932
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 2: But how the hell are they doing this when they're

933
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 2: I mean, because presume I don't have never been in

934
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 2: a situation like that.

935
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: Once I got the plane straight and level, you know

936
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 1: what I mean, it was still rough, but we were

937
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: we were upright. It was after we were out of

938
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: a dive, obviously, that they started doing this. We had

939
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 1: It was thirty five minutes from impact to whom we land.

940
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: That's crazy. It wasn't quick.

941
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: How did you How did you land this thing?

942
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: You know, we good crew. The plane held together. I

943
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: can't believe that thing held together. The damage it took,

944
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: the things, the truck. And you know, if people said, well,

945
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: what if it would have been a female pott? And

946
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: I had three females on board who did off. One

947
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: was one was my flight engineer, one was the navigator,

948
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: and one was the one of the heads of hell

949
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: on the back. And and uh, you know, I I

950
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,320
Speaker 1: said female or not? I said, there's ninety percent of

951
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: the pilots. I know. It wouldn't have been strong enough

952
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 1: to hold it. The force it took. I mean I

953
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: back then, I benched like three eighty That's insane. I

954
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: was a truck, you know what I mean. And it

955
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: tore my shoulder apart holding it. I that much force

956
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: for that long. I mean, that's total adrenaline, right, you

957
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: know those strength sides too, you can do but but

958
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 1: you know, how long can the adrenaline last? Right? And

959
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: so you know, I obviously had my copilot helping me

960
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: hold it. It wasn't just me. Of initially it was,

961
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: but then and my co pilot's a big dude too,

962
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: so I mean it it was, it was. It was.

963
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: It was the right crew in the right place. And

964
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 1: and I and I don't say it lightly, I mean

965
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: God stepped in and I made some deals sitting sitting

966
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: in a Chinese person with the Good Lord, and I

967
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 1: think I've held to him.

968
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:02,760
Speaker 2: I I'm absolutely stunned by this. I mean, I remember

969
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 2: this happening, by the way, and I couldn't believe it then,

970
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 2: but to hear it personally from you now, it's just

971
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 2: it's I've never heard anything like this. And so you

972
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,879
Speaker 2: get off the aircraft and there there are Chinese troops

973
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 2: with AK forty sevens. I mean there's AK forty sevens

974
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 2: or at the high ready are they are they? Are

975
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 2: they aimed? Are they aimed at you?

976
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 1: A few of them were a few of them were.

977
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: And then they pulled them back. They and they their

978
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 1: commander came up. They were as scared that we were

979
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 1: there as we were, you know what I mean, they

980
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: set as either They're like, what the hell is going on? Right?

981
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: And so the commander came up that was there and

982
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 1: he spoke English, and he asked me if we were armed,

983
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: and I assured him there were no weapons, because weren't

984
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: allowed to have weapons. That's international law for reconnaissance aircraft.

985
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 1: We're not allowed to be armed. And so I assured

986
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 1: him we had no weapons. And then and then they didn't.

987
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: They weren't pointing at us anymore, but they were they

988
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: were clearly wanted us off. When we were in the airplane,

989
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 1: I left the engines run him so they couldn't come up. Right,

990
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:00,080
Speaker 1: You're not going to walk up to an airplane of

991
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: the props, right right. And that was while we were

992
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: getting the calls out. But that was when they were

993
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: getting really nervous, and they were and I'm like, I

994
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: don't need some young shithead popping off and shooting shooting

995
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: one of us, right, you know, There's just there's no

996
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: point in it. And so, you know, then when it

997
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: was time we got to the airplane, I assured them

998
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 1: we weren't armed, and uh, you know, so they took

999
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 1: us in and put us in a bus. And then

1000
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 1: it's so funny because I you know, you remember things

1001
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 1: and you forget some stuff. But I thought we'd walk

1002
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: somewhere and I found out later that we took a bus,

1003
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: and you know, just little things when your mind's just

1004
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: at a heightened sense, so to speak. And so you know,

1005
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 1: in those interrogations, they'd read like an hour of how

1006
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: horrible America is and how I'm going to jail the

1007
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: rest of my life, and we could be you know,

1008
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: they can't guarantee that we're going to make it out

1009
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: of here a love and crap like that, you know,

1010
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: and and so you kind of after days get you know,

1011
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: get used to it, you know. So then they'd like

1012
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: they take me back to a room and they'd let

1013
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: me fall asleep, and then they startle me and wake

1014
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: me back up right And after a few days you

1015
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,479
Speaker 1: get pretty fricking jumpy, you know what I'm talking about.

1016
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: When you're in the field and you're exhausted, you know,

1017
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 1: trigger happy, you get, so to speak, like anything startles you.

1018
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 1: So I just guard that wore these taps on his

1019
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 1: shoes and walk around my room and hawk loogi's and

1020
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: sit them in the trash can and walk around and

1021
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: on taps and just piss me off. And I remember,

1022
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: like day six, I'm hallucinating. I'm playing cards with my

1023
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 1: dead grandma talking to her openly, and and he woke

1024
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 1: me up and like I said, they'd let me sleep

1025
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: for like fifteen minutes and then you know, joltchit and

1026
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 1: he woke me up. And I remember thinking because I

1027
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 1: had my own room because I was isolated for my crew,

1028
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 1: and I was like, there was a closet in this room,

1029
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm going to go behind this

1030
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,359
Speaker 1: little bastard. I'm going to break his neck and I'm

1031
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: going to hide him in that closet and I hope

1032
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: they don't find him until I get out of here.

1033
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: And that is when I scared myself because I was

1034
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: ready to kill this guy and that would have not

1035
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 1: been good, as we all know, you know what I mean.

1036
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: And I was like, what and the fuck are you doing?

1037
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: You need to get your shit together, and so I

1038
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 1: just I prayed hours anytime I wasn't being interrogating. While

1039
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: I was interrogate, i'd pray. And then when they talk

1040
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 1: to you because you're losing your mind, instead of trying

1041
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,959
Speaker 1: to answer them with bullshit, I would start talking about

1042
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: Kentucky Fried Chicken and could they go get us some food?

1043
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: And I'd be willing to pay for it, you know

1044
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,879
Speaker 1: what I mean, I just totally Or I would talk

1045
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: about they'd be like, what about your systems? And so

1046
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: I'd start talking about the pedo tube, which is what

1047
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 1: tells you how fast the airplane's going, you know. So

1048
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: they'd start taking notes like they were getting some secret

1049
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 1: crap and I'm told and you know, after a while,

1050
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: I think they started to respect. I know they did

1051
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 1: at the end because the two commanders, the two main interrogators,

1052
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: came up and did picks with me once they were

1053
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 1: releasing me, saying you clearly care about your people, right

1054
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: because I wasn't. They would have to kill me. They

1055
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 1: knew it. And so once you threaten somebody like they're saying,

1056
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: you know, they would blow smoke and my face and

1057
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 1: I hate cigarettes. I hate them. So that's one of

1058
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: the things they do to keep me awake, because they

1059
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 1: their guards would take breaks and just sit there and

1060
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 1: smoke and blow smoke in my face. But they, you know,

1061
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: they made these threats, and once you don't follow through

1062
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: at those threats, then I knew it was a metal game,

1063
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: and I own knew the right. You know, if you

1064
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: say you're gonna take me away and put me in

1065
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: a jail on your don't you say you're gonna you know,

1066
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,320
Speaker 1: you're gonna threaten to hit me. You're gonna do this

1067
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: if I don't start talking and you don't do it. Well, now,

1068
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: the advantage is mode, so to speak. So they tried

1069
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:35,800
Speaker 1: changing tactics and then I'll stop. Like day nine, so

1070
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: the rest of the crew hadn't men interigatd They're just

1071
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,439
Speaker 1: boarding their rooms with a roommate, right, freak it out,

1072
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: but at least not being interrogator. So they tried to

1073
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: do it a crew interrogation. After we ate and we're

1074
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: sitting there and I have my head, my other number

1075
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,439
Speaker 1: two officer, and then my senior enlisted guy, guy named

1076
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: Nick Mellows, who is I was twenty six at that time.

1077
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:00,320
Speaker 1: He'd been in the Navy twenty eight years. He's a

1078
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: Greek dude, larger than life. You would love this guy.

1079
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,919
Speaker 1: And they're reading all this stuff that they've been reading

1080
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 1: to me every time they interrogate me, you know, and

1081
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: Nick Mellows has a temper to say the least. Right,

1082
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: He's a big Greek dude. He's bald headed, he talks

1083
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: two inches from your face. Every other words, the F word,

1084
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 1: but everybody loves it. I mean, he can insult the

1085
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 1: hell out of you and you don't care. And so

1086
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: he's getting pissed, right, He's starting to get mad. I'm like, oh,

1087
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,360
Speaker 1: I can't have him lose in his temper because if

1088
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 1: he loses it, this could be bad. Right. So they're

1089
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 1: reading this and he's starting to get physically angry. So

1090
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: I We're sitting at a table. So I just reached

1091
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: my right hand down and sitting next to me, and

1092
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: I start rubbing his inner thigh and he's looking at

1093
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: me like, what the hell? Do you know what I mean?

1094
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 1: I started rubbing his give him a few grazers and

1095
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 1: he chilled out. After that, he was like, what the hell.

1096
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: We still laugh about that to this day. I had

1097
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 1: to de escalate this situation.

1098
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 2: I can't what is going through your mind during those

1099
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 2: eight days in captivity? I mean, how are you? I

1100
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:12,800
Speaker 2: mean you start, you know, tell me about the slow

1101
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 2: deterioration of what that was like, because I know, you know,

1102
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 2: you start strong and they're throwing all these threats at you.

1103
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 2: But over time, yeah, you know, your sleep deprived, your

1104
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,319
Speaker 2: mind starts playing tricks on you. You start like likes

1105
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 2: you said, you start like losing your mind.

1106
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: It's a mental it's a mental strength game. And it

1107
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 1: was horrible, but it taught me everything I needed to

1108
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: know about myself, if that makes sense, you know what

1109
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 1: I mean. Yeah, it was intense. Did you ever has

1110
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,799
Speaker 1: twelve days? And it was a long time. I thought

1111
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 1: we were gonna be there a lot long twelve days.

1112
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 2: It is a long time.

1113
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: That's it is a long time. I was telling I said,

1114
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: they'll sit in a closet in the dark for six

1115
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,359
Speaker 1: hours and then come talk to me. You know, don't

1116
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 1: even have to have anybody messing with you. Just go

1117
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 1: sit in a closet for six hours. You can't sleep,

1118
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 1: stay away, can just sit there?

1119
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 2: Do they Did you go through any like seer training

1120
00:55:58,000 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 2: like we had?

1121
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 1: We had? Yeah, we that we all have to go

1122
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: through SERI training and that was some of the best

1123
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 1: I remember taking that training. And there, you know, they

1124
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 1: put you out in the cold and we were we

1125
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: almost got canceled in the middle of winter in Maine, Brunswick, Maine,

1126
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: and they had a couple of guys that got hypothermia.

1127
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 1: And then they capture you, right and they literally smack

1128
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 1: the shit out of you. They put you in a box,

1129
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: they interrogate you. You know, they do spress positions and

1130
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 1: and uh and uh, I got hit pretty good. It

1131
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 1: messed my job for a couple of years. A big

1132
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 1: dude popped me and I mouthed off, I was being

1133
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 1: a dipshit young idiot and uh, you know, so he

1134
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: let me know who was in charge real quick. And

1135
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 1: I remember the time going, this is just some bullshit

1136
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 1: military harassment, what I mean. But the one thing they

1137
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 1: did was they did I'm not going to get into

1138
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: the techniques, but they do certain things where you screw

1139
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: up and they're like they did something, and they said, okay,

1140
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 1: you need to sign in here. So I signed in right,

1141
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: and then later they showed me it was like a confession.

1142
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:03,240
Speaker 1: It was a piece of you know, it was folded

1143
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: in a way that I didn't know, but it was

1144
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,399
Speaker 1: a science confession, right, And I'll never forget it because

1145
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 1: it embarrassed the ship out of it. Mm hmm. I mean,

1146
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, it was one of I just

1147
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 1: I just read John McCain's book before that, and so

1148
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: this is all going on. I'm like, hey, this ain't

1149
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 1: you're six, this ain't you're a and I always just

1150
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 1: thought to myself, the blood's not going to go thin

1151
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 1: on my watch because and and I have very mixed

1152
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: feelings on John McCain politically, I'm not a fan. But

1153
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 1: he had a he had a saying that that I

1154
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: always remembered, and he said, it's all about when you

1155
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 1: get home and you're looking at your buddy across the bar,

1156
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: knowing you did it right. Does that make sense? Yes,

1157
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's about being able to live with yourself.

1158
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 2: That's it makes complete sense to me. I mean all

1159
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 2: that we were focused on, like all the politics and

1160
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,360
Speaker 2: the you know, the bullshit foreign policy stuff like when

1161
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 2: you're in you know, boots on the ground in Afghanistan,

1162
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 2: all that stuff goes away and the only thing that

1163
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 2: matters is making sure that you don't let the person

1164
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 2: next to you down.

1165
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 1: And so I can absolute pletely get it.

1166
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 2: And oh and for just so people are tracking see

1167
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 2: your survival, evasion, resistance and escape correct like it's been

1168
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 2: a long time.

1169
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pow trap. They teach you how to try

1170
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: to get away, and they teach you how to act

1171
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 1: in the in the code of conduct. If you get caught.

1172
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 2: Did you did you harken back to any of that training.

1173
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 2: I mean sometimes sometimes I was going to say, sometimes

1174
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 2: it just happens like unconsciously, you just.

1175
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: Do yeah, and I and the and there. You know,

1176
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: I would have I would protect my crew anyway. But

1177
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 1: half that crew were special assigned folks that are brilliant

1178
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 1: but not necessarily the same military training. Does that make sense. Yes, yes,

1179
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 1: they're linguists, they're there, These are not These are not Marines.

1180
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 1: I had a marine on board, but these are not

1181
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 1: you know, you know what I'm saying. So I was

1182
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: really careful. And the funny thing about it is usually

1183
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 1: when I'm flying Vietnamese to send Americans in the back, right,

1184
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: or you know, I ran I got some Persians on board. Right.

1185
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 1: We only had one Asian person on this airplane, and

1186
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 1: he was the inplight technician, so he was Filipino. They

1187
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: were convinced he was Chinese. They kept screaming at him

1188
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: in Chinese and he didn't speak a word of it.

1189
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 1: So it was one of those the you know, the

1190
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 1: diversity of the crew was there, but it wasn't there

1191
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 1: was There were no Chinese people on board, so they

1192
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 1: couldn't figure out who did what, and so that really

1193
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 1: helped us and being able to just kind of keep

1194
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 1: him at arms distance so they couldn't just focus on

1195
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 1: the four Chinese guys or gals on the airplane and

1196
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 1: start getting after him, you know what I mean?

1197
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh god, that is that is crazy. So how

1198
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 2: did you find out that it was over and you

1199
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 2: were going to make it home?

1200
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: Like? How did that? How did that news break to you?

1201
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: How are you told? They did a group They did

1202
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 1: a group meeting. They read the whole thing that you're

1203
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 1: you're a spy and you're a murderer and you're you know,

1204
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and in the spirit of you know, goodwill,

1205
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 1: you'll be released. And I was kind of like, don't

1206
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:07,960
Speaker 1: get your hopes up. This we don't know yet.

1207
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 2: And then.

1208
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 1: They did all the picks. You know. That was when

1209
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: I knew and we might had interrogators that have been

1210
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: putting the screws to me for twelve days came up

1211
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 1: and were taking individual pictures with me. I was like, okay.

1212
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 1: And so then we got out and we had probably

1213
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 1: a I don't know, four mile drive to the airport.

1214
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: So they put us in vans. They had a soldier

1215
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 1: or a police officer every four feet on both sides

1216
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 1: of the road the entire trip to the airport. We

1217
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 1: pull up and they wouldn't let a US military aircraft

1218
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: come get us. So it was a Continental jet. And

1219
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: at the top of the at the top of the

1220
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 1: ladder is my skipper, my commanding officer, Mike Paguilarulo Pegs,

1221
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 1: who's like six foot five, mustache German dude. You know,

1222
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: he's standing up there just grinning, and I'm like, oh,

1223
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: And one of my favorite picks is the pick they took.

1224
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 1: We all got our own seats on the airplane. Open

1225
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 1: rose right, we're tired. The second I got the call

1226
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: we were in international airspace. My body shut down, shut down.

1227
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 1: There's a great pick that I love that I got

1228
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 1: framed where my eyes, my face is just you know,

1229
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 1: like I was finally safe and so you know, you

1230
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 1: flip the defenses off and body needs some rest, to

1231
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 1: say the least. They found me they were doing debrief.

1232
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 1: I said I was going to the restroom. Apparently they

1233
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 1: found me like four floors away, were rolling around this building.

1234
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 1: I didn't know where the hell I even was, you know,

1235
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 1: So it was it was a great day. And the

1236
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 1: funny thing is, at the time, I didn't even know

1237
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 1: if I'd ever be able to tell the story. I

1238
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 1: didn't know if anybody knew. What we did was so

1239
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: secret that I couldn't even tell people in the Navy

1240
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 1: what I did, you know, So it was I knew

1241
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: it was obviously public. When we landed in Glatman, there

1242
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 1: was all these TV crews and I was like, okay,

1243
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 1: life just changed. I was literally going to go apply

1244
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 1: for the CIA, and you know, it was going to

1245
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 1: make that transition, and that I knew was blown. So

1246
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 1: at the pile was kind of like, shit, that was

1247
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: kind of my career path here and now this now

1248
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 1: I got to go talk to cameras, you know, and

1249
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 1: what I'm and that was what amazed me. And then

1250
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: September eleventh hit. You know, we did all this roll

1251
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 1: Wind tour and there was all this attention and I

1252
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: just I was back flying three weeks later. I made

1253
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 1: him put me back into cocking because that was the

1254
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 1: only thing that cleared my mind was getting back in

1255
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 1: the air. And so I'm flying on an instructor, I'm

1256
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: doing the you know, doing the speaking tour, that kind

1257
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:35,959
Speaker 1: of stuff. For the Navy, and you know it's probably

1258
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 1: September eleventh, so I was the you know, the fifteen

1259
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 1: minute guy, right. And then the weekend September ninth, I

1260
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 1: got invited back to Nebraska. Nebraska was playing Notre Name

1261
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:49,960
Speaker 1: for the first time in thirty years or forty, you know,

1262
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 1: And I got to do the coin toss in September ninth,

1263
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: got to bring my crew out. It was one of

1264
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 1: the best weekends of my life. Wow, to say the least,

1265
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 1: it was so cool. If you're a Husker. What better.

1266
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: I flew home and I'll remember my mom because I

1267
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 1: was on the West Coast. My mom calling waking me up,

1268
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 1: bawling and said, somebody hit the towers, and what are

1269
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: you talking about? And I thought it was just bad weather.

1270
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: You know. When I heard about the first one, I'm

1271
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: turning on the TV watching it. The second I saw

1272
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: the second one go in, I'd already spent over two

1273
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 1: years in the Middle East collecting intel. I knew who

1274
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: did it, I knew what it was. And I was

1275
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 1: getting ready to transfer out of my squad and I

1276
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 1: went into my skipper and I said, you I'm staying.

1277
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 1: We're going to have to figure out OPSEC right, because

1278
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 1: I was such a high viz guy, you know, sending

1279
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 1: me over to the Middle East. There was they caught

1280
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 1: a couple of crews filming me, you know, people filming me,

1281
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 1: trying to monitor me, and I'm sure they wanted my

1282
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 1: head on a platter and had been a great trophy

1283
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 1: for him. But you know, flying those first missions in

1284
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 1: tef Cant, I would have never forgiven myself. If I

1285
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been able to go, you know what I mean,

1286
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 1: it would have haunted me the rest of my life.

1287
01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: And so I was. I flew over three hundred combat

1288
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 1: hours two days to kick that off that line.

1289
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 2: I mean, that is it's stunning to me that after

1290
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 2: what you went through in Chinese captivity, really, I mean,

1291
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:14,200
Speaker 2: there's no other way to say it, right, like, did

1292
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 2: they did they? Did you get like a I guess

1293
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 2: I don't think did you get like a prisoner of

1294
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 2: war medal? Because they you.

1295
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 1: Know, they're there there.

1296
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 2: There was talk of it and the politics said, because

1297
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 2: this wasn't a it wasn't like a war, right, but it.

1298
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 1: Would qualify under it would would it would technically qualify

1299
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 1: because of the duress we under. They changed it after Iran, right,

1300
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: because we weren't at war with Iran, right, all those

1301
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: people you know, But I didn't. I don't, I'm not,

1302
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:47,400
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. Just don't give a ship about them.

1303
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 1: It never could I have pursued it. Yeah, who cares? Well, right,

1304
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: I'm here. Yes, we all made it back. We did have.

1305
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: We did have one crewmate take his own life a

1306
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: couple of years later, sad Deal. The Navy really left him.

1307
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 1: He gave him some mental health issues. He had some issues,

1308
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 1: and they literally because he was struggling mentally, they took

1309
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: him and sent him to be a seer trainer, teach

1310
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 1: pow training. What the hell, I don't know, right, he's

1311
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 1: struggling with it. And that's the last place he sent

1312
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 1: the guy and then he took his life. And his

1313
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:27,600
Speaker 1: name is Brandon Funk was a great guy, guy, brilliant.

1314
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: I don't even know how many languages that kid spoke. God,

1315
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 1: sad deal. But we got everybody home. And that's the point.

1316
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 1: So the metals don't mean shit.

1317
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 2: No, they don't. They don't. And you learned that real

1318
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 2: quickly when you get home. That all the metals in

1319
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:41,160
Speaker 2: the world.

1320
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 1: I'm just happy to be here ribbons, right, I'm just

1321
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 1: happy to be here. Yeah.

1322
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 2: I mean because wait, so you you got the I like,

1323
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 2: you got the Distinguished Flying Cross. That's a huge deal. Yes,

1324
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 2: Like that's so. That's at the time I was, I

1325
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 2: was the only person flying in the Navy that had Yeah,

1326
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 2: so they just put it into perspective like the Army awards,

1327
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:05,960
Speaker 2: the Distinguished Service Cross, which is like what like Major

1328
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 2: Winters got during World War Two? Uh, you know, that's

1329
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 2: the second highest award for valor or second highest award

1330
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 2: period in the whole country in the arm Is that

1331
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 2: the same for the Navy, Like the only thing hire

1332
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:18,439
Speaker 2: is the Medal of Honor.

1333
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:20,880
Speaker 1: It would be one no, it would not no, no,

1334
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 1: it'd be one step below that, but it's still very high.

1335
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 1: I mean, it was an honor to get it, like

1336
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 1: the crew got air metals. I don't know, that was

1337
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 1: kind of bullshit, but whatever. They wanted to give me

1338
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,920
Speaker 1: the Navy Cross, but it has it can only be

1339
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 1: given during combat, and we weren't at war with China.

1340
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:41,959
Speaker 1: So that's why I was to the DFC, which is fine.

1341
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:45,000
Speaker 1: Like I said, I can't this.

1342
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:48,040
Speaker 2: Your story is unbelievable. I mean, do you do you

1343
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 2: do you struggle with some of the I mean, I

1344
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 2: can't imagine going through eight days of out of torture

1345
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:54,640
Speaker 2: and not waking up in the middle of the night

1346
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 2: sometimes and be honest, you know, no, Yeah, and it's

1347
01:06:57,840 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 2: gotten better.

1348
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:00,440
Speaker 1: I mean you know that to turn four nine a

1349
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 1: long time ago, and I've I've really, I've really I

1350
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 1: these days for a lot of years. They I mean

1351
01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 1: they call Simon's angry Osborne, right, I mean, I was

1352
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 1: definitely a guy, and then they called me sugar later

1353
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 1: because they say I sugarcoat everything, which I do not.

1354
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 1: But I've really, I've really chilled now. And there's and

1355
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:20,880
Speaker 1: and there's one. I you know, I realized you can

1356
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: only control what you can control. So I'm a big

1357
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 1: Marcus Aurelia stoic fan. That's helped me find peace. And

1358
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:32,160
Speaker 1: I just send every day at least a half hour

1359
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:35,080
Speaker 1: reading the Bible, and it's brought me so much peace.

1360
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 1: I've always been a religious guy, don't get me wrong,

1361
01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 1: but later in life I was struggling so much with

1362
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 1: the nightmares and that being pissed off about you know,

1363
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 1: I still get a little jumpy. I definitely don't want

1364
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 1: fireworks going off behind me. You know, there's some things

1365
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 1: that aren't just gonna go away. But I've really found

1366
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:53,480
Speaker 1: a way to kind of I guess that's my way

1367
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 1: of coping with it and just kind of letting go

1368
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 1: and realizing all everything. I think losing that Senate race hell,

1369
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 1: to me, that was a pretty big defeat for me.

1370
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 1: When I lost, just kind of realized, you know what,

1371
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 1: you're not You're not going to win everything you go after, right,

1372
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:11,520
Speaker 1: just just roll with it a little bit.

1373
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 2: I mean, in any sane world. And I can't tell

1374
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:17,880
Speaker 2: you how many people that I've said this to on

1375
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 2: this show that have tried to run for office that

1376
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:25,920
Speaker 2: that are freaking national heroes, and you you are one.

1377
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:27,640
Speaker 2: I know that you probably hate to hear that, but

1378
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 2: I've never heard a story like yours. And you should

1379
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:32,719
Speaker 2: have walked into a damn Senate seat.

1380
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 1: Uh.

1381
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 2: But you know, like I know when I when I ran,

1382
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 2: and I don't want to speak for you, Shane, but

1383
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:40,519
Speaker 2: when I ran, like I went into it like wanting

1384
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:42,800
Speaker 2: to make this country a better place, wanting to give

1385
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 2: our kids a country that's rich with opportunity, the same

1386
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 2: country that we grew up in, only better. And you

1387
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 2: just realize how many terrible people on both sides of

1388
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:58,640
Speaker 2: the aisle are in are in politics, and it's it

1389
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:01,880
Speaker 2: really discouraged you when you get a look behind the

1390
01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 2: curtain and look, I don't I don't know. I don't

1391
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:07,639
Speaker 2: even want to get into Trump or how people feel

1392
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 2: about Trump, but like what he he exposed that there

1393
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 2: really is a swamp there and it exists. They're entrench

1394
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:20,479
Speaker 2: bureaucrats with very little life experience outside of the government.

1395
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:22,560
Speaker 2: And many of the elected officials.

1396
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:24,519
Speaker 1: These people they.

1397
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:27,640
Speaker 2: Love the title of being a member, of being a

1398
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 2: representative or a senator. They think it's cool. They like

1399
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 2: the authority that comes along with it in the power,

1400
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:35,960
Speaker 2: but they're not there to do a job. They're not

1401
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 2: there to make the world a better place. And that

1402
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:44,519
Speaker 2: that is so concerning to me. And it's unfortunate that,

1403
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:47,759
Speaker 2: you know, I learned that just trying to serve my country,

1404
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 2: just how dirty and despicable some of these people are.

1405
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:52,800
Speaker 2: And it sounds like you had a similar experience, and

1406
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 2: it's crazy.

1407
01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 1: I did, I had, I did my last year, I

1408
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 1: got I moved up to the Navy Yard because I

1409
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:00,719
Speaker 1: had to have a bunch of surgery. Is my shoulder,

1410
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 1: my ankle, some other stuff. Right, So basically I was

1411
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:09,320
Speaker 1: on my way out. I decided to get out, you know,

1412
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 1: being that well known in the military at that low

1413
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 1: over rank, being new O three and you know, you've

1414
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:19,479
Speaker 1: literally got four stars calling you and asked me to

1415
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:22,200
Speaker 1: come to speek it just I stayed in. Most people

1416
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:24,479
Speaker 1: get out after something like that, right, they go out,

1417
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 1: they write the book, they get out. They came to

1418
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:28,720
Speaker 1: me and said, will you write the book? The Navy did,

1419
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 1: and I said, only if I can stay in. You know,

1420
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:34,479
Speaker 1: it was just a different I planned on staying in.

1421
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 1: I realized it wasn't going to work. Right. Once I

1422
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:39,439
Speaker 1: was out of my command and out of the people

1423
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 1: that knew me, I got just treated weird everywhere I went. Right.

1424
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:46,759
Speaker 1: You know, you know, you're six. Doesn't want a famous

1425
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 1: O three underneath him. That's getting He's getting calls from

1426
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:51,560
Speaker 1: four stars seeing can it come this week and do it?

1427
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:54,840
Speaker 1: Just doesn't work. It's not conducive to the military. Yeah,

1428
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:57,800
Speaker 1: I could say this. My last year I was in

1429
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:00,840
Speaker 1: d C. So I I knew I was kind of

1430
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:04,719
Speaker 1: looking at politics a little bit. But I started getting

1431
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:08,200
Speaker 1: to know a few of the congressmen right, going going

1432
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:11,640
Speaker 1: to the Capitol Hill Club and yeah, yeah, I'll never

1433
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 1: forget having drakes and table with it. I won't name names,

1434
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:19,600
Speaker 1: but I literally when they started telling my story to

1435
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:23,479
Speaker 1: a congressman who didn't know the story, which you know,

1436
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 1: this is like two thousand and three, you know what

1437
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:25,720
Speaker 1: I mean, it.

1438
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:28,519
Speaker 2: Was like, you're in Congress, it's your job. Yeah exactly.

1439
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 1: I mean, you didn't hear about this, and that's fine,

1440
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:32,200
Speaker 1: but I'm kind of and he goes, wait, you're in

1441
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 1: the Navy and you fly, and I said yeah, and

1442
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:37,839
Speaker 1: he goes, the Navy has airplanes and I just I stopped.

1443
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:43,160
Speaker 1: It's a congressman asking me he thought those were air

1444
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 1: force planes landing on the character like a congressman, and

1445
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:50,920
Speaker 1: I went, holy shit, what's running our country? Exactly? And

1446
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 1: I could tell you I'm only met a handful and

1447
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:55,559
Speaker 1: you know it that are worth a shit. The rest

1448
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:58,479
Speaker 1: of them, they're not good people. I don't care.

1449
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 2: I I could not agree with you more. And like

1450
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:06,200
Speaker 2: the good people that I know, and they're they're there,

1451
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 2: they're they're really crazy people. There's not many and they're

1452
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:13,799
Speaker 2: and they're really great, like uh and I love them dearly.

1453
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 2: But they are not many. There are not many, And

1454
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:17,640
Speaker 2: I don't know what that says about the state of

1455
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 2: our country or what it means with regards to where

1456
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:25,639
Speaker 2: we're headed. But like I said, in any sane world,

1457
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:28,840
Speaker 2: a guy like you walks into the House of Representatives

1458
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 2: or walks into the Senate with no issues.

1459
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:31,880
Speaker 1: It's just.

1460
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 2: It's a different it feels it feels like it's a

1461
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:37,880
Speaker 2: different time now. I don't know, I don't know, but

1462
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:39,240
Speaker 2: it does.

1463
01:12:39,439 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 1: It does. We're in a very very blarmant place in

1464
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:44,880
Speaker 1: our country's history right now, and I think it's you know,

1465
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:48,559
Speaker 1: weakness invites that. And I'm not a hawk, but I'm

1466
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:51,080
Speaker 1: not either. I'm not sure about our future. I am

1467
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:54,120
Speaker 1: not a hawk by any stretch. And I just I

1468
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:57,560
Speaker 1: don't like where we're going, where we're at. And you know,

1469
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:01,560
Speaker 1: you know this not not to political, but seeing what

1470
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:03,760
Speaker 1: we're doing to a former president, I don't care what

1471
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:06,360
Speaker 1: side of the eye, I completely agree with the bullshit.

1472
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:12,599
Speaker 2: That's everybody, everybody, everybody, and everybody outside of yourself, everybody

1473
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:15,479
Speaker 2: outside of DC in New York City knows it's complete bullshit.

1474
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:19,320
Speaker 2: Or they're they're on the hard left and they don't

1475
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 2: want to They don't want to. They they're just glad

1476
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:25,880
Speaker 2: they don't. They don't care the win at all costs

1477
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:27,840
Speaker 2: type folks. And there's some on the right to that

1478
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:29,360
Speaker 2: will do that type of stuff. But right now what

1479
01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:32,920
Speaker 2: you're seeing is this isn't good for our country. And

1480
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:35,320
Speaker 2: and to your point about you've got some Republicans showing

1481
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:38,840
Speaker 2: their true colors, right, yes by calling it.

1482
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:40,639
Speaker 1: Out absolutely right.

1483
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,439
Speaker 2: And it's like it's this is the number one thing

1484
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 2: that when you talk to people when I was running campaigns,

1485
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:47,960
Speaker 2: they just want someone who's willing to fight for them.

1486
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:48,439
Speaker 1: That's it.

1487
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 2: That's the number one quality that they want. It doesn't

1488
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:53,240
Speaker 2: mean that you're going to agree with them on everything.

1489
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:55,920
Speaker 2: They just want somebody who's gonna be honest and somebody

1490
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 2: who's going to fight. And you talked about not being

1491
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:01,800
Speaker 2: a hawk, and I think for me, having gone through

1492
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:04,439
Speaker 2: what I went through and direct combat with an enemy

1493
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:06,400
Speaker 2: of the United States and gone through what you went through,

1494
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:10,320
Speaker 2: it's hard to come out of that and want to

1495
01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 2: put others through it potentially, you know. And so that's

1496
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 2: why I can't in good conscience embrace what they would

1497
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 2: call today like a neo conservative hawkish mentality on foreign

1498
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:28,919
Speaker 2: policy and this idea that we should be fighting worse everywhere,

1499
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 2: Like it's just like having been through what I've been through,

1500
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 2: like we that should be a last resort, But it

1501
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:36,760
Speaker 2: doesn't seem like it's a last resort to many of

1502
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:38,400
Speaker 2: the leaders that we have in Washington. It's just that

1503
01:14:38,439 --> 01:14:40,720
Speaker 2: they just want to go, go, go and figure out

1504
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:42,280
Speaker 2: the mission in the end state after And I just

1505
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:43,720
Speaker 2: can't get on board with something like that.

1506
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:48,040
Speaker 1: No, we've got no business get We've got our own

1507
01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 1: problems to take care of. I completely agree, and issues

1508
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:55,120
Speaker 1: that we're not addressing here, and we're going to get

1509
01:14:55,120 --> 01:14:57,280
Speaker 1: our We're going to get ourselves in a real bad place.

1510
01:14:57,400 --> 01:15:00,599
Speaker 1: And you know, we took the eye off of China

1511
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:04,680
Speaker 1: for twenty years in the hell. I know, it's like,

1512
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:05,759
Speaker 1: what are you talking about?

1513
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:11,280
Speaker 2: I completely agree, I completely agree with you. And I

1514
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:15,240
Speaker 2: just feel like, man, I've already kept you for an

1515
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:17,280
Speaker 2: hour and fifteen minutes. I don't want to keep you anymore.

1516
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:19,040
Speaker 2: But you got to promise me that you come back

1517
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 2: here and talk with me more. I mean, sure, I

1518
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:23,479
Speaker 2: hate I appreciate you having it was it was fun.

1519
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:27,080
Speaker 1: I annoyed it, and you know, it's always it's always

1520
01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:30,719
Speaker 1: good to have a good conversation with some like minded people.

1521
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:33,400
Speaker 2: I mean, next time you're in Pittsburgh or I'm down

1522
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:35,960
Speaker 2: in Florida, wherever the hell are pass cross a beers

1523
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:37,560
Speaker 2: are on me because man, you deserve it.

1524
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 1: I And so most of the time that I am

1525
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:42,160
Speaker 1: down on Florida on occasion.

1526
01:15:42,479 --> 01:15:45,960
Speaker 2: Well, I you know, if I'm ever in Omaha, if

1527
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:48,120
Speaker 2: I'm ever in Nebraska, like I said, brinks on me.

1528
01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:51,599
Speaker 1: But I'd love to meet yet.

1529
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:56,200
Speaker 2: Rwh Energy is is your company? Tell us what you're

1530
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:58,880
Speaker 2: up to now? And we've got lots of energy folks

1531
01:15:58,920 --> 01:15:59,600
Speaker 2: who tune into this.

1532
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're a Department of Energy energy services company. We're

1533
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:07,000
Speaker 1: one hundred percent disabled veteran owned, hire a lot of

1534
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:09,439
Speaker 1: you know, disabled vets, work with a lot of other

1535
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:13,120
Speaker 1: veteran firms at least, and we build microgrids and do

1536
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:18,479
Speaker 1: energy efficiency so help bring resiliency to people that need

1537
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:21,920
Speaker 1: power critically, you know, do like anything as simple as

1538
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:25,960
Speaker 1: like an LED upgrade for campuses and large commercial industrial

1539
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 1: and so we bring the capital with it. It's it's

1540
01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:30,760
Speaker 1: pretty cool. It's there's a website or IBUA energy dot

1541
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:33,920
Speaker 1: com and things are things are good, but we do

1542
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:38,719
Speaker 1: everything that makes economic sense. It's not just a green

1543
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:42,160
Speaker 1: energy sort of speak company. It's more of an energy

1544
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:44,920
Speaker 1: efficiency and resiliency company. I love it.

1545
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 2: I love it and also an extraordinarily important mission. Our

1546
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 2: grid is so vulnerable in so many different ways. But

1547
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:57,040
Speaker 2: that's a conversation for another time. I feel like I

1548
01:16:57,200 --> 01:16:59,439
Speaker 2: hope that you stay in the fight politically, even if

1549
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:02,720
Speaker 2: it's even if it's like not directly involved. But this

1550
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:05,320
Speaker 2: country needs people like you now more than ever. Shane,

1551
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:09,200
Speaker 2: And and thank you for giving us your time today.

1552
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:09,960
Speaker 2: Thank you coming.

1553
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 1: And I appreciate you having me. This is awesome.

1554
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:16,880
Speaker 2: Anytime man, anytime. God bless you, and like God bless

1555
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:22,680
Speaker 2: your service man. Thanks brother, Wow, ladies and gentlemen. That

1556
01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:29,639
Speaker 2: was Shane Osborne. I have been in some ridiculously terrible

1557
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:33,120
Speaker 2: life and desk situations before in my life, really really

1558
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:37,639
Speaker 2: bad spots. I've never heard a story like Shane's before.

1559
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:41,240
Speaker 2: So I hope you enjoyed the episode and the conversation.

1560
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:45,479
Speaker 2: Like I said to you, like I say to you

1561
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:47,080
Speaker 2: at the end of every episode, like we have some

1562
01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:50,840
Speaker 2: amazing things coming. I'm so excited to share them with you.

1563
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:54,040
Speaker 2: This show isn't anything without you. The audience.

1564
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:54,600
Speaker 1: It's for you.

1565
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:58,639
Speaker 2: We work hard every week to improve bit by bit

1566
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:03,160
Speaker 2: just to make a show better for you. So as always,

1567
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:07,120
Speaker 2: thank you all so much for watching. You know, subscribe

1568
01:18:07,200 --> 01:18:10,759
Speaker 2: to wherever you listen to podcasts, Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

1569
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:13,719
Speaker 2: But we're really migrating over to Rumble right now because

1570
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:18,080
Speaker 2: YouTube like why spend all the time, money, investment and

1571
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:20,719
Speaker 2: building a YouTube channel when they can just suspend you at.

1572
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 1: The top of a hat.

1573
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:24,360
Speaker 2: So we're migrating over to Rumble so you can watch

1574
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:27,439
Speaker 2: everything there. You get tons of exclusive content, So subscribe

1575
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 2: to my channel Sean Parnell or Sean Parnell Battleground, both

1576
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:33,680
Speaker 2: of the same. Go to the website Official Seanparnell dot com.

1577
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:36,720
Speaker 2: We've got signed copies of all of my books on there,

1578
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:39,200
Speaker 2: from Out Level Toomb Man of War, All at War, One.

1579
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:40,320
Speaker 1: True Patriot Left four Dead.

1580
01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:44,000
Speaker 2: They're all there, and we're also rolling out Battleground Apperil

1581
01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:47,479
Speaker 2: So Official Seanparnell dot com. Check it out and anytime

1582
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:49,080
Speaker 2: you need anything for me, just write me on my

1583
01:18:49,160 --> 01:18:53,760
Speaker 2: social media Instagram, Facebook, whatever. I typically respond. We get

1584
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:55,800
Speaker 2: lots of messages, but I try to respond to every

1585
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:58,240
Speaker 2: single one and then as always, God bless you all,

1586
01:18:59,320 --> 01:19:02,600
Speaker 2: and God bless this exceptional nation that we live in.

1587
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:03,519
Speaker 1: Take care