WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Simple Spelling Movement

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's Chuck, and there's Jerry, and dats here and spirit

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<v Speaker 1>and this is short stuff, which should be spelled exactly

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<v Speaker 1>like it's spelled right now. Yeah, Should another simple spelling

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<v Speaker 1>movement come along, Chuck?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, although they may drop an F.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're right, although that could be stuff, but there

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<v Speaker 1>is no such word as stuff, so I guess it

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't be a problem.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But that's what we're talking about. We're talking about

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<v Speaker 2>the idea that English is a really tough language to learn,

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<v Speaker 2>and that there have been many movements over the years

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<v Speaker 2>to simplify things and spell things out a little more phonetically.

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<v Speaker 2>And back in nineteen oh six, none other than Teddy Roosevelt,

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<v Speaker 2>who was president, got into this idea, and he was

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<v Speaker 2>a very very popular president who had some other very

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<v Speaker 2>famous people on board at the time as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Right Andrew Carnegie, Mark Twain, William James, the father of

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<v Speaker 1>psychology and named Supreme Court justice. Basically, a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>thinkers in America came together to basically put their might

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<v Speaker 1>behind this what was another progressive movement at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>and Teddy Roosevelt was an enthusiastic supporter of it, He

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<v Speaker 1>issued a what he later called an experiment, an executive

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<v Speaker 1>order to the printer of the United States, the official one,

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<v Speaker 1>and said, all federal documents from now on have to

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<v Speaker 1>be printed using the simplified spelling of these three hundred words,

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<v Speaker 1>and gave them a list. And it ended up not

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<v Speaker 1>going very well at all.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, this kind of just goes to show

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<v Speaker 2>you that you can be super super popular as a

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<v Speaker 2>public figure or as even a politician, and if you

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<v Speaker 2>come up with an idea that people think are dumb,

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<v Speaker 2>even back then, they turn on you pretty quickly. Because

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<v Speaker 2>people hated this idea. He was all over the newspapers

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<v Speaker 2>being made fun of all of a sudden. And this

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<v Speaker 2>is a guy got like a lot of great press, right.

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<v Speaker 2>He was in you know, political cartoons. It was one

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<v Speaker 2>where he was laying knocked out in a boxing ring

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<v Speaker 2>with a anthropomorpize dictionary had just knocked him out. And

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<v Speaker 2>Congress certainly didn't like it because they he had sidestepped

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<v Speaker 2>Congress with this executive order and they were not having it.

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<v Speaker 1>No, not at all, Like you said, he was mocked

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<v Speaker 1>for it, and his political opponents in Congress just jumped

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<v Speaker 1>all over this because he was a beloved president, like

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<v Speaker 1>you said, and there wasn't a lot that they could

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<v Speaker 1>use against him, and this was great. So because there

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<v Speaker 1>was an election coming up, He's like, Okay, I'm backing

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<v Speaker 1>off you guys win. We'll just stay with the dumb

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<v Speaker 1>rules of grammar and spelling that English has, and let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk about that a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>You want to, Well, they actually even brought a bill

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<v Speaker 2>against him where they cited Websters like, they demanded that

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<v Speaker 2>all federal documents be written according to Webster's or other

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<v Speaker 2>generally accepted dictionaries of the English language, which is ironic

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<v Speaker 2>because Webster himself was a proponent of making spelling simpler

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<v Speaker 2>at one point, and it was also something I know

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<v Speaker 2>that we've talked about. Benjamin Franklin had also championed this

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<v Speaker 2>earlier in his career.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and both Noah Webster and Benjamin Franklin had already

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<v Speaker 1>found out that people don't like the concept of simplifying

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<v Speaker 1>English for some reason, even though there's reason after reason

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<v Speaker 1>to do this. Chuck, you want to talk a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit about how English is kind of screwy.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I mean, anyone who's ever learned the English

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<v Speaker 2>language knows that the spelling doesn't make a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>sense a lot of times, and the rules contradict one

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<v Speaker 2>another all the time. It's a tough language to learn.

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<v Speaker 2>And you can look no further than the final three

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<v Speaker 2>letters G H T at the end of words like

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<v Speaker 2>kought and though and draft and drought to know that

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<v Speaker 2>there's just doesn't seem to be any rise, rhyme or reason.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, if you learn English and learn how to

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<v Speaker 2>spell in English, you're basically just taught, like you just

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<v Speaker 2>got to memorize this stuff. There are no rules of

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<v Speaker 2>which are going to help.

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<v Speaker 1>You out exactly. And that is the reason why I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't realize this. But spelling bees are almost entirely an

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<v Speaker 1>American phenomenon. They're almost entirely in English speaking phenomenon because

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<v Speaker 1>it's so tricky to spell English words, and that even

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<v Speaker 1>countries that do hold spelling bees typically hold them as

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<v Speaker 1>English spelling bees. Yeah, which is really saying something about

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<v Speaker 1>how difficult it is to remember all this stuff in

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<v Speaker 1>spelling the English language.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, although to be fair, they're spelling, they're not spelling

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<v Speaker 2>things like draft, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>No, No, they're spelling anti disestablishmentarianism.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that one's not too hard.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually no it's not, but it's the one that always

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<v Speaker 1>gets thrown out because it's fun to say.

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<v Speaker 2>The hard part for me would be, uh, doing it

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<v Speaker 2>in my brain. I would have to write it down,

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<v Speaker 2>I think Itily was a champion spelling bee.

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<v Speaker 1>Kid, as was my gal.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so they're both great spellers. I'm an okay speller,

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<v Speaker 2>but yeah, I would have to write it down. I

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<v Speaker 2>have a hard time doing that in my brain.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, way hard. It's much harder to do it just

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<v Speaker 1>in your brain, for sure. I think you have to

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<v Speaker 1>be like a visual person to be able to kind

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<v Speaker 1>of see it in front of you too. That's got

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<v Speaker 1>to help. Yeah. The thing I think that I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if we said it or not, but the group

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<v Speaker 1>with Andrew Carnegie and Mark Twain, they founded what was

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<v Speaker 1>known as the This is Official the Simplified Spelling Board.

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<v Speaker 1>And what the Simplified Spelling Board was trying to do,

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<v Speaker 1>as far as they were concerned, was just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>hasten what was already an organic, naturally occurring process of

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<v Speaker 1>making it easier to spell English words. And a really

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<v Speaker 1>good example that I saw was that in Elizabeth in

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<v Speaker 1>England or Bethan, depending on where you are speaking English.

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<v Speaker 1>Fish was spelled fyshe and at some point, naturally, there

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<v Speaker 1>was no board telling everyone to do this, which I

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<v Speaker 1>think ultimately is what people's problem is with this. It's

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<v Speaker 1>somebody saying we're going to do this now. Just naturally,

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<v Speaker 1>it happened that people started spelling fish fish instead. It

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<v Speaker 1>makes way more sense. It is easier to spell f y.

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<v Speaker 1>She was clearly the invention of a madman, so that

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<v Speaker 1>happens anyway. I mean, that's also the reason why in

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<v Speaker 1>the United States we don't spell like honor or color

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<v Speaker 1>with an ou like they do in the UK or

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<v Speaker 1>Canada or Australia, or we don't spell program with an

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<v Speaker 1>extra me at the end, because at some point the

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<v Speaker 1>people in the United States said, we're just going to

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<v Speaker 1>start spelling this. It's just easier this way. And so

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<v Speaker 1>what the simplified spelling board was saying is like, we're

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<v Speaker 1>just trying to move all this along to its inevitable conclusion.

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<v Speaker 1>Do we have to wait like a thousand years before

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<v Speaker 1>it just happens on its own.

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<v Speaker 2>No, but we do have to wait a very short

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<v Speaker 2>time while we take a break and then short stuff

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<v Speaker 2>will be right back.

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<v Speaker 1>So again, this is not the first and only time

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<v Speaker 1>people have proposed simplified spelling. There have also been other

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<v Speaker 1>initiatives to not only simplify the spelling of English words,

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<v Speaker 1>but also to kind of straighten out some of the

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<v Speaker 1>weirder rules of grammar too. And there's a guy named

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<v Speaker 1>James Ruggles. He was an Ohio teacher, and he said,

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<v Speaker 1>we're gonna spell no k n o W the way

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<v Speaker 1>that it should be spelled n oe in the present tense,

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<v Speaker 1>like I know chuck is great, but instead of k

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<v Speaker 1>n e W for past tense, we're gonna say nod,

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<v Speaker 1>like I've always knowed that chuck is great.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So you know, they're in presents part of the problem.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're a literate human and you look at something

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<v Speaker 2>phonetically or say something like I knowed that it makes

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<v Speaker 2>you sound like you're, you know, maybe not so smart, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So you know that's that's kind of the issue, is

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<v Speaker 2>that the people always pushing for this are probably like

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<v Speaker 2>the hyper literate, and they're not gonna push for something

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<v Speaker 2>that looks like it's not well.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but what's weird is you do have occurrences of

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<v Speaker 1>people in history like Mark Twain and Andrew Carnegie like

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<v Speaker 1>it's weird. Yes, there's like a roadblock in that. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>people who are well versed in English literacy do do

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<v Speaker 1>see this as kind of like there's something wrong with it.

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<v Speaker 1>But those are also the same people who have kind

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<v Speaker 1>of started initiatives in the past. So I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>what the deal is. I don't know if we're ever

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<v Speaker 1>going to do this to you.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I mean, what I wonder is how

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<v Speaker 2>far Twain and that board was pushing things, because it's

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<v Speaker 2>one thing to spell you know, thought or though thcho,

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<v Speaker 2>which is how people do it on text now or

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<v Speaker 2>thhoe maybe, and then to say like I knowed that guy,

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<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, No, I do know you mean.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, one's a little further I think than the other.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, so yeah, I'm not exactly how farther or pushing

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<v Speaker 1>it either, but I do know that they backed off

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<v Speaker 1>big time after Teddy Roosevelt got his his campaign hat

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<v Speaker 1>handed to him by Congress, right, Yeah, So it just

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<v Speaker 1>died down for decades, and it wasn't until the seventies

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<v Speaker 1>that it came up again from a guy named Edward

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<v Speaker 1>ron Thaler, and he was the chairman of the American

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<v Speaker 1>Literacy Council. He not only saw a need to simplify

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<v Speaker 1>spelling for the sake that it could be simplified, he

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<v Speaker 1>traced the problem of having trouble learning English and a

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<v Speaker 1>literacy rates to dropping out of school and then turning

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<v Speaker 1>to a life of crime. So to him, simplifying English

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<v Speaker 1>would actually help alleviate America's crime problem, which was a

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<v Speaker 1>big deal from the seventies to the nineties.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and he thought, like, the computers are coming along now,

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<v Speaker 2>this will be the perfect time to make this transition

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<v Speaker 2>because we can have computer programs sort of just convert

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<v Speaker 2>this stuff automatically into the simplified form, and then before

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<v Speaker 2>you know it, everyone will just sort of, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>adopt this as it becomes the regular thing in computers.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, So, America seems to be doing pretty good. There's

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<v Speaker 1>a ninety nine percent literacy rate among Americans. That seems

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<v Speaker 1>to be like fairly where it is throughout the English

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<v Speaker 1>speaking world. But something that I didn't realize check that

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<v Speaker 1>that just talks about basic literacy, like just being able

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<v Speaker 1>to read, like you can sound out words and read,

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<v Speaker 1>you understand the basic building blocks of English grammar. Ninety

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<v Speaker 1>nine percent of Americans know how to do that. But

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<v Speaker 1>when you talk about functional literacy, it drops precipitously.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this number surprises me me too. Apparently twenty one

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<v Speaker 2>percent of Americans are functionally illiterate, which, yeah, that's that

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<v Speaker 2>seems high, but you know, if that's the stat that's

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<v Speaker 2>the stat.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And to be functionally illiterate means that you can read,

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<v Speaker 1>but you have trouble navigating life as an adult in

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<v Speaker 1>the English speaking world, say like reading tax forms or

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<v Speaker 1>something like that, because you're basically literate but not functionally literate. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Twenty one percent of Americans, by the way, equal seventy

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<v Speaker 1>one million people.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a lot of folks. So yeah, I mean

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<v Speaker 2>there's a case to be made. I think people are

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<v Speaker 2>doing it on their own a little bit, like I said,

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<v Speaker 2>through texts, But I don't I don't think, like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>proper graded spelling is ever going to change that much.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that ship has kind of sailed.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah for sure. Before we go, thank you very much

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<v Speaker 1>to History dot Com, Time, Paleo, Future, Smithsonian, Uh, and

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<v Speaker 1>the Uncle John's Bathroom Reader, who is takes this to me,

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<v Speaker 1>Oh god, when I was probably fifteen. We're finally getting

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<v Speaker 1>around to do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Shocking. Yeah, this is how many years later is that? Oh?

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<v Speaker 1>Like Tony?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, great, Happy birthday.

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<v Speaker 1>Short stuff is out.

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