1 00:00:15,371 --> 00:00:15,931 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:18,930 --> 00:00:22,011 Speaker 2: Subscribe to Pushkin Plus to hear the entire season of 3 00:00:22,091 --> 00:00:26,371 Speaker 2: Valley of Shadows ad free starting January twelfth. You'll also 4 00:00:26,371 --> 00:00:30,091 Speaker 2: get bonus episodes, full audiobooks, and early ad free listening 5 00:00:30,211 --> 00:00:34,171 Speaker 2: from your favorite Pushkin hosts and authors. Find Pushkin Plus 6 00:00:34,290 --> 00:00:37,531 Speaker 2: on the Valley of Shadows showpage on Apple podcast, or 7 00:00:37,571 --> 00:00:43,251 Speaker 2: at pushkin dot fm, slash plus, and thanks for your support. 8 00:00:43,691 --> 00:00:46,451 Speaker 2: This series includes content that may not be suitable for 9 00:00:46,491 --> 00:00:53,330 Speaker 2: all listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Previously on Valley of Shadows. 10 00:00:54,371 --> 00:00:58,211 Speaker 3: This was assigned to Homicide Bureau Missing Persons Unit. They 11 00:00:58,251 --> 00:01:01,131 Speaker 3: were the ones who had to make the decision that 12 00:01:01,171 --> 00:01:03,051 Speaker 3: this was a suicide. 13 00:01:03,291 --> 00:01:05,810 Speaker 4: They said, well, we think he might have sat on 14 00:01:05,890 --> 00:01:08,890 Speaker 4: the edge of one of those minds and blown himself 15 00:01:08,890 --> 00:01:14,211 Speaker 4: into the mind. I think, okay, we are really stretching 16 00:01:14,331 --> 00:01:17,331 Speaker 4: now for an explanation as to why we can't find it. 17 00:01:18,731 --> 00:01:21,451 Speaker 5: I would hope the Sheriff's department would investigate this. 18 00:01:22,851 --> 00:01:27,091 Speaker 6: I just still want John to be found or his remains. 19 00:01:28,891 --> 00:01:33,331 Speaker 4: They told our search teams on day one, John may 20 00:01:33,411 --> 00:01:39,251 Speaker 4: have stumbled into a meth lab by accident, and what 21 00:01:39,331 --> 00:01:42,931 Speaker 4: happened to that idea? 22 00:01:49,651 --> 00:01:57,011 Speaker 3: Let's see Bato, Biker's Coffee, Black Beauty Blade Chalk. I 23 00:01:57,091 --> 00:02:00,771 Speaker 3: made this list from the Internet of all the names 24 00:02:00,851 --> 00:02:06,211 Speaker 3: that were used to describe crystal meth, chicken feed, crank. 25 00:02:06,051 --> 00:02:10,091 Speaker 7: Christy, lengthy in handwritten by my boer. 26 00:02:10,011 --> 00:02:14,691 Speaker 3: Go fast, meth, Lee's quick, methless. 27 00:02:14,451 --> 00:02:15,251 Speaker 1: Meth Le's quick. 28 00:02:15,291 --> 00:02:17,451 Speaker 3: That's cute, TikTok fan. 29 00:02:17,891 --> 00:02:20,931 Speaker 7: There's a reason this almost eighty year old retired cop 30 00:02:21,451 --> 00:02:23,770 Speaker 7: is trying to expand his drug vocabulary. 31 00:02:24,651 --> 00:02:27,891 Speaker 3: I began to understand that the world of trying to 32 00:02:27,891 --> 00:02:31,611 Speaker 3: find John A. J In balb crystal math. That's why 33 00:02:31,611 --> 00:02:32,131 Speaker 3: I made. 34 00:02:31,931 --> 00:02:36,251 Speaker 7: This list, because Bauer keeps hearing whispers of foul play. 35 00:02:37,331 --> 00:02:41,411 Speaker 8: The ruler around the drug scene was at a deputy 36 00:02:41,971 --> 00:02:44,090 Speaker 8: stumbled onto something he's shouldning of. 37 00:02:44,891 --> 00:02:47,091 Speaker 4: The first thing I had heard was he had was 38 00:02:47,171 --> 00:02:50,291 Speaker 4: running in the punch bowl and came upon. 39 00:02:50,251 --> 00:02:54,011 Speaker 1: A meth lamb, a meth lab, a meth lab. 40 00:02:54,291 --> 00:02:57,011 Speaker 8: Then it was said he tried to be a hero 41 00:02:57,611 --> 00:02:59,371 Speaker 8: and that's when he was taken care of. 42 00:03:03,331 --> 00:03:06,651 Speaker 7: When Deputy John aj disappeared in nineteen ninety eight, there 43 00:03:06,691 --> 00:03:10,011 Speaker 7: was a meth epidemic ravaging the Antelope Valley. It was 44 00:03:10,050 --> 00:03:12,051 Speaker 7: a vortex of addiction and crime. 45 00:03:13,331 --> 00:03:17,251 Speaker 1: I think Neth has destroyed this community. I think they 46 00:03:17,291 --> 00:03:20,250 Speaker 1: need to take a bomb and blow it up. It's 47 00:03:20,291 --> 00:03:20,771 Speaker 1: that bad. 48 00:03:22,171 --> 00:03:25,571 Speaker 7: Neth is a powerful stimulant that hijacks the central nervous 49 00:03:25,571 --> 00:03:28,971 Speaker 7: system and causes people to stay awake for days. 50 00:03:28,691 --> 00:03:31,050 Speaker 1: On end after the euphoria. 51 00:03:31,211 --> 00:03:36,851 Speaker 9: Experts said longtime users suffer mind twisting crashes, jagged nerves, 52 00:03:37,291 --> 00:03:43,171 Speaker 9: desperation to sleep, a spooky paranoia, and too often unpredictable rage, 53 00:03:43,491 --> 00:03:44,571 Speaker 9: often homicidal. 54 00:03:46,011 --> 00:03:48,531 Speaker 7: The drug can trick the brain into thinking there's a 55 00:03:48,531 --> 00:03:50,651 Speaker 7: boogeyman around every corner. 56 00:03:51,571 --> 00:03:53,771 Speaker 10: I've had a patient come back to me after two 57 00:03:53,811 --> 00:03:56,011 Speaker 10: years of not using it, saying that he was sorry 58 00:03:56,051 --> 00:03:58,531 Speaker 10: that he hit his wife so hard, but he still 59 00:03:58,571 --> 00:04:02,491 Speaker 10: convinced that she was having an affair with the extraterrestrials. 60 00:04:03,811 --> 00:04:06,571 Speaker 7: Maybe that's how the meth lab rumors got started as 61 00:04:06,571 --> 00:04:10,011 Speaker 7: a drug fueled conspiracy theory, and there were a lot 62 00:04:10,051 --> 00:04:14,171 Speaker 7: of conspiracy theories following Auja's disappearance, that he was kidnapped 63 00:04:14,171 --> 00:04:17,171 Speaker 7: by the CIA, and another that he'd started a new 64 00:04:17,211 --> 00:04:21,651 Speaker 7: life in Alaska. While the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department 65 00:04:21,771 --> 00:04:25,051 Speaker 7: dismisses the leads as rumors spread by a hopped up 66 00:04:25,091 --> 00:04:29,251 Speaker 7: game of telephone, but we discover a small detail buried 67 00:04:29,291 --> 00:04:31,971 Speaker 7: in the missing person's report that suggests the rumors have 68 00:04:32,011 --> 00:04:36,811 Speaker 7: more weight than that. Following Auja's disappearance, multiple informants came 69 00:04:36,851 --> 00:04:40,291 Speaker 7: forward with information about a deputy who was murdered while 70 00:04:40,371 --> 00:04:44,691 Speaker 7: jogging in the Devil's Punch Bowl. Missing Persons detectives said 71 00:04:44,731 --> 00:04:47,851 Speaker 7: these informants can't be trusted, and they opted not to 72 00:04:47,891 --> 00:04:50,651 Speaker 7: follow up on the leads because the meth lab story 73 00:04:50,931 --> 00:04:55,371 Speaker 7: was just smoke and mirrors. But where there's smoke, there 74 00:04:55,571 --> 00:05:00,651 Speaker 7: is sometimes fire. Bower tells us about a homicide detective 75 00:05:00,891 --> 00:05:04,051 Speaker 7: who followed the rumors to their source to find out 76 00:05:04,051 --> 00:05:06,770 Speaker 7: if there was anything to them, and he says, we 77 00:05:06,891 --> 00:05:09,771 Speaker 7: need to hear this story straight from the horses mouth. 78 00:05:10,690 --> 00:05:14,651 Speaker 3: You should go have a drink with Larry Brandenberg at 79 00:05:14,651 --> 00:05:16,891 Speaker 3: his bar and ask him what do you think? 80 00:05:16,971 --> 00:05:17,291 Speaker 1: Larry? 81 00:05:17,651 --> 00:05:19,691 Speaker 3: I have a few questions for you and see what 82 00:05:19,731 --> 00:05:20,411 Speaker 3: he says. 83 00:05:21,091 --> 00:05:24,571 Speaker 7: And that's exactly what we do. We don't often get 84 00:05:24,571 --> 00:05:30,571 Speaker 7: to do interviews in people's home bars, such a cool space, 85 00:05:32,291 --> 00:05:35,451 Speaker 7: and we ask him what do you think, Larry about 86 00:05:35,451 --> 00:05:38,051 Speaker 7: those tips that came in from local drug informants? 87 00:05:38,851 --> 00:05:40,371 Speaker 1: You're not going to get a boy scout or a girl 88 00:05:40,451 --> 00:05:42,251 Speaker 1: scout that's gonna have information about the murder of a 89 00:05:42,291 --> 00:05:45,611 Speaker 1: Deathy Shah. How would they know? So you got to 90 00:05:45,651 --> 00:05:48,171 Speaker 1: talk to these people, and then it's your job to 91 00:05:48,211 --> 00:05:49,971 Speaker 1: figure out who's telling the truth who's lying. 92 00:05:51,331 --> 00:05:53,770 Speaker 7: So we try to figure out who is telling the 93 00:05:53,771 --> 00:05:55,530 Speaker 7: truth and who's lying. 94 00:05:56,971 --> 00:06:01,531 Speaker 2: I'm Betsy Shepherd, I'm Haley Fox and miss His Valley 95 00:06:01,611 --> 00:06:12,571 Speaker 2: of Shadows, Episode three, Tweaker Talk. 96 00:06:17,851 --> 00:06:20,771 Speaker 7: Okay, let's see what you got here, mister Brandenburg. 97 00:06:20,971 --> 00:06:21,971 Speaker 1: Do you go by detected? 98 00:06:23,211 --> 00:06:23,731 Speaker 8: Okay? 99 00:06:23,891 --> 00:06:28,091 Speaker 7: Can you come show us some of your sheriff's men Rebulia. 100 00:06:28,771 --> 00:06:31,690 Speaker 2: Betsy and I are at the home of retired lasd 101 00:06:31,811 --> 00:06:36,251 Speaker 2: homicide detective Larry Brandenburg, poking around his basement bar that 102 00:06:36,571 --> 00:06:38,570 Speaker 2: doubles as a type of trophy room. 103 00:06:39,171 --> 00:06:41,010 Speaker 1: Well, that was a bag one of my old partners. 104 00:06:41,051 --> 00:06:41,450 Speaker 1: You got me? 105 00:06:42,931 --> 00:06:43,811 Speaker 7: What does it say on there? 106 00:06:43,931 --> 00:06:46,851 Speaker 1: I think it says the best partner a copkitab or 107 00:06:46,851 --> 00:06:47,570 Speaker 1: something like that. 108 00:06:48,771 --> 00:06:52,891 Speaker 2: Brandenburg's humility stands in contrast to his career highlights displayed 109 00:06:52,931 --> 00:06:56,531 Speaker 2: on the wall. There's his Marine Corps uniform, A photo 110 00:06:56,571 --> 00:06:59,211 Speaker 2: from an appearance on the TV show forty eight hours 111 00:06:59,611 --> 00:07:03,770 Speaker 2: an LASD Service Award, and nearby there's a jukebox, a 112 00:07:03,811 --> 00:07:07,011 Speaker 2: big screen TV, and a pool table with the giant 113 00:07:07,051 --> 00:07:08,931 Speaker 2: logo of his Sheriff's badge on it. 114 00:07:09,811 --> 00:07:12,131 Speaker 7: Do you have a name for this room? 115 00:07:12,331 --> 00:07:16,291 Speaker 1: We just call it the Brandonburg Family Game Room. I 116 00:07:16,331 --> 00:07:19,051 Speaker 1: try to get the kids go over games, and we're 117 00:07:19,051 --> 00:07:21,611 Speaker 1: all Dodger fans, so revetsed the Dodgers. 118 00:07:22,971 --> 00:07:26,131 Speaker 2: Brandenburg is a grampa. Now goes by Papa, and he 119 00:07:26,171 --> 00:07:28,651 Speaker 2: has a shock of gray hair to prove it, but 120 00:07:28,731 --> 00:07:30,851 Speaker 2: he still looks a bit like a detective with his 121 00:07:30,971 --> 00:07:35,571 Speaker 2: slicked back hair and steely gaze. For more than twenty years, 122 00:07:35,651 --> 00:07:38,931 Speaker 2: Brandenburg was a bulldog. That was the nickname given to 123 00:07:39,011 --> 00:07:41,851 Speaker 2: investigators at the LASD Homicide Bureau. 124 00:07:42,771 --> 00:07:45,331 Speaker 1: It was a La Tanji course said, yeah. The Sheriff's 125 00:07:45,331 --> 00:07:48,771 Speaker 1: onmicide detectors are like bulltoks. Once they put their teeth 126 00:07:48,811 --> 00:07:51,571 Speaker 1: to something and they never let go. Name stuck. 127 00:07:53,051 --> 00:07:56,531 Speaker 2: The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department oversees crime in the 128 00:07:56,611 --> 00:08:01,891 Speaker 2: unincorporated areas of LA County. It's a massive space, four 129 00:08:01,891 --> 00:08:05,411 Speaker 2: thousand square miles, which is about the size of Connecticut, 130 00:08:06,291 --> 00:08:10,331 Speaker 2: covering that much ground. Requires a huge workforce. With its 131 00:08:10,371 --> 00:08:15,251 Speaker 2: eighteen thousand employees, LASD is the largest sheriff's department in 132 00:08:15,291 --> 00:08:19,611 Speaker 2: the country. Homicide cops like Larry Brandenburg work out of 133 00:08:19,651 --> 00:08:23,371 Speaker 2: a bureau located near downtown La, so when they catch 134 00:08:23,411 --> 00:08:26,171 Speaker 2: a case, they hoof it to whatever part of the county. 135 00:08:26,211 --> 00:08:30,731 Speaker 2: The homicide occurred in. The Antelope Valley or AV as 136 00:08:30,771 --> 00:08:35,731 Speaker 2: it's sometimes called, was a particularly distant outpost. That's because 137 00:08:35,771 --> 00:08:37,851 Speaker 2: it's cut off from the city by a mountain range, 138 00:08:38,331 --> 00:08:41,690 Speaker 2: and Brandenburg thinks that's part of why the Auja case 139 00:08:41,771 --> 00:08:42,771 Speaker 2: was handled so poorly. 140 00:08:44,090 --> 00:08:47,251 Speaker 1: I think some of it was lack of interest motivation. 141 00:08:48,210 --> 00:08:49,611 Speaker 1: I can't explain any other way. 142 00:08:50,930 --> 00:08:53,810 Speaker 2: Because the AV was quite the hall from the homicide 143 00:08:53,810 --> 00:08:56,050 Speaker 2: bureau hour and a half drive time. 144 00:08:56,651 --> 00:08:59,210 Speaker 1: Nobody from down in La one to come up here 145 00:08:59,251 --> 00:09:01,851 Speaker 1: at work because they didn't live up here. Hey see 146 00:09:01,851 --> 00:09:03,410 Speaker 1: why the drive sucks. 147 00:09:04,491 --> 00:09:07,210 Speaker 2: LA deputies didn't want to move to the desert either, 148 00:09:07,731 --> 00:09:10,370 Speaker 2: so the department had to recruit lovocals to run their 149 00:09:10,410 --> 00:09:14,771 Speaker 2: AV stations, and that created a schism within the LASD. 150 00:09:15,651 --> 00:09:17,891 Speaker 1: They thought they could do their own thing and they 151 00:09:17,930 --> 00:09:20,050 Speaker 1: didn't need anybody from down in LA tell them what 152 00:09:20,090 --> 00:09:23,651 Speaker 1: to do. Hey, this is our valley. We know everybody 153 00:09:23,690 --> 00:09:25,810 Speaker 1: up here, we grew up here, we live here, will 154 00:09:25,810 --> 00:09:29,051 Speaker 1: handle this shit. But at the same time, department never 155 00:09:29,410 --> 00:09:32,011 Speaker 1: dedicated the resources to this valley that they should have. 156 00:09:33,371 --> 00:09:37,210 Speaker 2: Brandenburg has two sons who are now LASD deputies in 157 00:09:37,251 --> 00:09:40,170 Speaker 2: the Annelo Valley, and it's become a running joke in 158 00:09:40,170 --> 00:09:40,651 Speaker 2: the family. 159 00:09:41,611 --> 00:09:44,250 Speaker 1: You know, I say, ah, you freaking deputies work up here. 160 00:09:44,290 --> 00:09:47,410 Speaker 1: You guys are stupid, he'd laugh. You guys from down 161 00:09:47,491 --> 00:09:49,251 Speaker 1: Belore a bunch of assholes. You come up here and 162 00:09:49,251 --> 00:09:52,930 Speaker 1: think you know everything. But that was for a long 163 00:09:52,970 --> 00:09:54,091 Speaker 1: time kind of the feeling. 164 00:09:56,290 --> 00:09:59,170 Speaker 7: Brandenburg had heard that Auj went missing, but he didn't 165 00:09:59,210 --> 00:10:02,810 Speaker 7: know him or the specifics of what happened, and it 166 00:10:02,891 --> 00:10:06,290 Speaker 7: wasn't a murder investigation. It was a missing person's case, 167 00:10:06,771 --> 00:10:10,330 Speaker 7: so it was outside his domain. But then a colleague 168 00:10:10,330 --> 00:10:13,771 Speaker 7: from the Anela Valley reaches out with an especially persuasive tip. 169 00:10:14,530 --> 00:10:16,651 Speaker 1: He said, Hey, Larry, I'm hearing shit on the street man, 170 00:10:16,731 --> 00:10:19,811 Speaker 1: and Auj wasn't. He didn't commit suicide. He was murdered. 171 00:10:19,810 --> 00:10:22,331 Speaker 1: He came across a math lab and you know, he 172 00:10:22,371 --> 00:10:24,170 Speaker 1: tried to be a hero. He goes, I'm hearing from 173 00:10:24,170 --> 00:10:25,251 Speaker 1: more than one person. 174 00:10:26,170 --> 00:10:28,931 Speaker 7: And there are other details about the Auj case that 175 00:10:29,011 --> 00:10:31,971 Speaker 7: don't sit right with him. How many years were you 176 00:10:32,011 --> 00:10:33,011 Speaker 7: a homicide detective? 177 00:10:33,731 --> 00:10:34,970 Speaker 1: A little over twenty. 178 00:10:35,371 --> 00:10:37,891 Speaker 7: In not twenty years? Did you ever have a case 179 00:10:38,011 --> 00:10:38,371 Speaker 7: like this. 180 00:10:38,410 --> 00:10:44,851 Speaker 1: Where nobody a suicide? Never think about how would you 181 00:10:44,891 --> 00:10:45,170 Speaker 1: do that? 182 00:10:46,210 --> 00:10:49,490 Speaker 7: So Brandenburg asks to review the Auj case file. 183 00:10:50,491 --> 00:10:53,971 Speaker 1: I went to the Captain Frank Merriman, who was the 184 00:10:54,050 --> 00:10:57,570 Speaker 1: lieutenant in charge of Missing persons who handled the initial investigation, 185 00:10:58,330 --> 00:11:00,570 Speaker 1: and I said, hey, Frank, I'm getting some information about 186 00:11:00,570 --> 00:11:02,651 Speaker 1: Auja that you know we need to follow up on. 187 00:11:03,450 --> 00:11:06,330 Speaker 1: He's what, He goes, that's a suicide. You're wasting your time. 188 00:11:07,450 --> 00:11:11,530 Speaker 7: But Brandenburg continues to press this. He's a bulldog, after all, 189 00:11:11,970 --> 00:11:15,731 Speaker 7: and his persistence pays off. In early two thousand, he 190 00:11:15,771 --> 00:11:19,170 Speaker 7: gets permission to look through the missing person's report and 191 00:11:19,251 --> 00:11:22,931 Speaker 7: finds out new details about the deputy's disappearance from a 192 00:11:22,970 --> 00:11:26,570 Speaker 7: year and a half earlier. He discovers that the department 193 00:11:26,611 --> 00:11:29,851 Speaker 7: had received numerous tips that Auja was murdered, and that 194 00:11:29,970 --> 00:11:33,251 Speaker 7: some of those tips came in just three days after 195 00:11:33,290 --> 00:11:36,850 Speaker 7: the deputy went missing, while searchers were still out looking 196 00:11:36,891 --> 00:11:42,371 Speaker 7: for him. And potential evidence was still fresh. If there 197 00:11:42,530 --> 00:11:46,771 Speaker 7: is some suggestion of possible foul play, multiple people are 198 00:11:46,771 --> 00:11:49,771 Speaker 7: claiming there's a murder, what typically would happen. 199 00:11:50,050 --> 00:11:52,371 Speaker 1: It would be assigned to a murder team, people that 200 00:11:52,410 --> 00:11:53,611 Speaker 1: are on call for new murders. 201 00:11:54,891 --> 00:11:59,170 Speaker 7: But that didn't happen because the missing person's team dismissed 202 00:11:59,251 --> 00:12:02,651 Speaker 7: the tips. What would you say is the main difference 203 00:12:02,690 --> 00:12:06,530 Speaker 7: between a missing person's investigator and a murder team or 204 00:12:06,611 --> 00:12:07,651 Speaker 7: homicide detective. 205 00:12:08,810 --> 00:12:12,891 Speaker 1: Well, missing persons they handle a large volume. I mean, 206 00:12:12,891 --> 00:12:15,011 Speaker 1: there are so many people report of missing La County 207 00:12:15,050 --> 00:12:19,410 Speaker 1: every day, let alone every month every year, so they're 208 00:12:19,450 --> 00:12:22,210 Speaker 1: making phone calls, try to find relatives. So they're busy 209 00:12:22,290 --> 00:12:24,851 Speaker 1: doing that stuff. But a lot of it is handled 210 00:12:24,851 --> 00:12:28,450 Speaker 1: at their desk, on the phone. Or you don't handle 211 00:12:28,450 --> 00:12:31,290 Speaker 1: a murder like that, at least, I ope not. 212 00:12:32,651 --> 00:12:36,370 Speaker 7: Brander Murg thinks these detectives drop the ball big time, 213 00:12:37,170 --> 00:12:41,011 Speaker 7: and he's not the only one. Internal documents from the 214 00:12:41,090 --> 00:12:44,251 Speaker 7: LASD show that one lieutenant discussed the AJ case in 215 00:12:44,330 --> 00:12:48,690 Speaker 7: terms of Murphy's law, which basically means anything that can 216 00:12:48,810 --> 00:12:52,130 Speaker 7: go wrong will go wrong. We've reached out to the 217 00:12:52,170 --> 00:12:54,930 Speaker 7: missing person's team, but they declined to talk to us. 218 00:12:55,611 --> 00:12:57,771 Speaker 7: So all we know about their decision to not refer 219 00:12:57,810 --> 00:13:00,931 Speaker 7: the case to a homicide detective is the one sentence 220 00:13:00,970 --> 00:13:05,450 Speaker 7: explanation in their report. The reads, due to inconsistencies in 221 00:13:05,491 --> 00:13:08,771 Speaker 7: their statements, it was determined they were not credible and 222 00:13:08,930 --> 00:13:10,530 Speaker 7: otherly were pursued. 223 00:13:12,011 --> 00:13:14,290 Speaker 1: Well, shouldn't you maybe looked into that a little more? 224 00:13:14,371 --> 00:13:17,571 Speaker 1: I mean, that's just my thought, and that's why I 225 00:13:17,611 --> 00:13:18,410 Speaker 1: started looking at it. 226 00:13:19,491 --> 00:13:22,130 Speaker 7: Brandenburg does what he thinks should have happened back in 227 00:13:22,210 --> 00:13:26,810 Speaker 7: nineteen ninety eight. He treats Aujay's disappearance like a homicide case, 228 00:13:27,651 --> 00:13:30,330 Speaker 7: and he starts by tracking down two of the names 229 00:13:30,330 --> 00:13:34,491 Speaker 7: in the missing person's report so he can reinterview the informants. 230 00:13:35,090 --> 00:13:37,771 Speaker 7: To protect their identities, we're going to call them Sue 231 00:13:37,810 --> 00:13:41,491 Speaker 7: and Mike. At the time, Sue was in custody on 232 00:13:41,570 --> 00:13:44,730 Speaker 7: burglary charges, so Brandenburg and his partner head to the 233 00:13:44,810 --> 00:13:47,970 Speaker 7: jail where she's being held. Sue tells them that after 234 00:13:48,011 --> 00:13:52,210 Speaker 7: Aujay disappeared, her boyfriend Mike, went to score drugs from 235 00:13:52,251 --> 00:13:55,330 Speaker 7: a guy living near the Devil's Punch Bowl, a local 236 00:13:55,371 --> 00:14:00,050 Speaker 7: dealer named Tom Hinkle. What was he known for in 237 00:14:00,090 --> 00:14:00,611 Speaker 7: the area? 238 00:14:01,251 --> 00:14:04,371 Speaker 1: Miss doing it? Or he did it, he sold it, 239 00:14:04,410 --> 00:14:06,290 Speaker 1: he cooked it, and he did all of it. 240 00:14:08,131 --> 00:14:12,131 Speaker 7: Everyone in the area. Hinkle he was the Kevin Bacon 241 00:14:12,210 --> 00:14:16,051 Speaker 7: and his community's six degrees of separation. He was only 242 00:14:16,050 --> 00:14:18,330 Speaker 7: in his fifties when a J disappeared, but Hinkl was 243 00:14:18,371 --> 00:14:22,131 Speaker 7: already known around town as old man. He had wild 244 00:14:22,251 --> 00:14:25,370 Speaker 7: gray facial hair and was described by a local sheriff's 245 00:14:25,411 --> 00:14:29,451 Speaker 7: deputy as bearded meta clause. He lived in a large 246 00:14:29,451 --> 00:14:32,131 Speaker 7: a frame house up on a hill six miles from 247 00:14:32,171 --> 00:14:34,931 Speaker 7: the punch bowl, and his property was a hive of 248 00:14:35,051 --> 00:14:39,171 Speaker 7: drug activity. Sue, the informant, tells Brandon Burg that when 249 00:14:39,210 --> 00:14:41,811 Speaker 7: Mike arrived at Hinkle's home, he led him into a 250 00:14:41,851 --> 00:14:44,571 Speaker 7: back room where Hinkle kept his knife collection. 251 00:14:46,011 --> 00:14:49,731 Speaker 6: Heinkel was showing him knife collection two miles beyond, kind 252 00:14:49,731 --> 00:14:51,371 Speaker 6: of like showing off a little bit. 253 00:14:51,491 --> 00:14:51,691 Speaker 4: You know. 254 00:14:52,611 --> 00:14:56,371 Speaker 7: This is an actual recording of Sue's conversation with Brandenburg. 255 00:14:57,051 --> 00:15:03,171 Speaker 5: I'll bendy bring it up the hop gath Henkler, Yeah, Okay, Tom, 256 00:15:03,251 --> 00:15:06,611 Speaker 5: Heinkel brings it up to My boyfriend tells them basically 257 00:15:06,691 --> 00:15:07,370 Speaker 5: what happened to. 258 00:15:07,330 --> 00:15:12,051 Speaker 6: The man that RJ was on a job, ran across 259 00:15:12,090 --> 00:15:14,451 Speaker 6: that picking shit. That ran across and he had to 260 00:15:14,491 --> 00:15:17,411 Speaker 6: be taken care of, meaning she was killed. 261 00:15:19,571 --> 00:15:22,210 Speaker 7: Sue goes on to say that, according to Hinkle, Auj 262 00:15:22,451 --> 00:15:24,891 Speaker 7: stumbled on a meth lab and tried to be a 263 00:15:24,931 --> 00:15:29,210 Speaker 7: hero with slight variations. The story is repeated by Mike 264 00:15:29,251 --> 00:15:32,091 Speaker 7: in a separate interview and then in second hand accounts 265 00:15:32,131 --> 00:15:35,331 Speaker 7: from a handful of other informants that Hinkle and or 266 00:15:35,411 --> 00:15:39,131 Speaker 7: one of his associates had Auj taken care of. According 267 00:15:39,131 --> 00:15:42,090 Speaker 7: to Sue and Mike, Hinkle pantomimed what he meant by 268 00:15:42,171 --> 00:15:42,891 Speaker 7: taking care of. 269 00:15:44,491 --> 00:15:46,490 Speaker 6: He made the motion like this. 270 00:15:48,651 --> 00:15:50,811 Speaker 1: He made a hand gesture like a gun with his 271 00:15:50,811 --> 00:15:53,610 Speaker 1: finger out, and then opened his hand like he was dropped. 272 00:15:55,651 --> 00:15:58,131 Speaker 7: The moment plays like a movie scene in my head. 273 00:15:58,731 --> 00:16:01,571 Speaker 7: Meta clause is surrounded by a bloom of meth smoke 274 00:16:01,731 --> 00:16:05,611 Speaker 7: and sharp shiny knives. He mentions the missing deputy with 275 00:16:05,651 --> 00:16:08,691 Speaker 7: a knowing look. He draws his hand into a finger 276 00:16:08,771 --> 00:16:13,331 Speaker 7: gun and then releases his fingers, displaying them out, And 277 00:16:13,491 --> 00:16:17,371 Speaker 7: just like that, John A. J. Disappears down a mind 278 00:16:17,411 --> 00:16:20,611 Speaker 7: shaft or some other hole out in the desert where 279 00:16:20,651 --> 00:16:22,610 Speaker 7: people go to bury their secrets. 280 00:16:55,651 --> 00:16:58,531 Speaker 2: We're back at the Devil's punch Bowl. And this time 281 00:16:58,531 --> 00:17:02,651 Speaker 2: we've come for a hike. Oh I love these. This 282 00:17:02,691 --> 00:17:04,610 Speaker 2: is where you write your name and the time that 283 00:17:04,691 --> 00:17:08,171 Speaker 2: you leave, so that in case you go missing, people 284 00:17:08,251 --> 00:17:10,531 Speaker 2: know that we should do that. So dat, Betsy and 285 00:17:10,571 --> 00:17:12,731 Speaker 2: I write our names down on a sign and sheet 286 00:17:12,771 --> 00:17:14,971 Speaker 2: at the main trailhead and enter the park. 287 00:17:16,891 --> 00:17:19,891 Speaker 7: Why why are we doing Why are we doing this again? 288 00:17:20,811 --> 00:17:23,051 Speaker 2: I honestly, I just really had to get eyes on 289 00:17:23,091 --> 00:17:26,211 Speaker 2: the punch bowl. I am having a really hard time 290 00:17:26,611 --> 00:17:28,691 Speaker 2: seeing how someone could set up a meth lab in 291 00:17:28,931 --> 00:17:29,971 Speaker 2: La County Park. 292 00:17:30,331 --> 00:17:31,971 Speaker 7: It just feels implausible to you. 293 00:17:33,131 --> 00:17:36,051 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it just seems like you would be 294 00:17:36,131 --> 00:17:37,211 Speaker 2: kind of asking to get. 295 00:17:37,091 --> 00:17:41,011 Speaker 7: Caught, not to mention, like meth labs are like not discreen, discreet. 296 00:17:41,131 --> 00:17:44,491 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's let's check it out. 297 00:17:44,571 --> 00:17:49,811 Speaker 2: Let's check it out. As we start to descend down 298 00:17:49,851 --> 00:17:52,691 Speaker 2: into the center of the punch bowl, Betsy loses her 299 00:17:52,731 --> 00:17:58,090 Speaker 2: footing on the steep dusty trail. Okay, do you want 300 00:17:58,131 --> 00:18:00,211 Speaker 2: me to go in front of you or hold your backpack. 301 00:17:59,891 --> 00:18:03,331 Speaker 7: So you can break my fall? Yeah? Holding my backpack 302 00:18:03,411 --> 00:18:06,131 Speaker 7: like I'm a child method is a working freak. 303 00:18:06,931 --> 00:18:11,131 Speaker 2: Yeah, here, I got you. But we keep moving, snaking 304 00:18:11,171 --> 00:18:13,811 Speaker 2: through the switchbacks in a slow zigzag motion. 305 00:18:15,651 --> 00:18:17,651 Speaker 7: How hot do you think it is right now? So 306 00:18:17,771 --> 00:18:19,251 Speaker 7: one hundred? Did it break one hundreds today? 307 00:18:19,371 --> 00:18:19,771 Speaker 1: I don't know. 308 00:18:19,811 --> 00:18:25,971 Speaker 2: It's definitely close. It's pushing one hundred for sure. Being 309 00:18:26,051 --> 00:18:28,971 Speaker 2: out here, we realize this public park is much less 310 00:18:29,171 --> 00:18:30,291 Speaker 2: public than most. 311 00:18:32,331 --> 00:18:36,330 Speaker 7: It feels like we are on another planet and we 312 00:18:36,411 --> 00:18:40,771 Speaker 7: are like the last living human beings. So I mean 313 00:18:41,011 --> 00:18:45,771 Speaker 7: in terms of discreetness, like it's open, but it's also 314 00:18:46,491 --> 00:18:47,611 Speaker 7: like out. 315 00:18:47,331 --> 00:18:49,491 Speaker 1: In the middle of nowhere. It's on the fringes. 316 00:18:51,491 --> 00:18:55,610 Speaker 2: We don't see any other hikers or rangers, and I 317 00:18:55,651 --> 00:18:58,611 Speaker 2: find myself playing out the lab scenario in my head. 318 00:18:58,971 --> 00:19:05,011 Speaker 2: You know, we know that Jonathan oj saw uh Classic 319 00:19:05,091 --> 00:19:07,851 Speaker 2: kids on a field trip here, but then we also 320 00:19:07,971 --> 00:19:11,011 Speaker 2: know that he went totally off trail and off roading, 321 00:19:11,211 --> 00:19:15,451 Speaker 2: and to me, that would be the place where he 322 00:19:15,491 --> 00:19:18,491 Speaker 2: could stumble upon the meth lab because there is all 323 00:19:18,651 --> 00:19:23,610 Speaker 2: this land that is not accessible by trail. As we 324 00:19:23,691 --> 00:19:26,411 Speaker 2: wind our way down the gorge with our phones on 325 00:19:26,611 --> 00:19:30,891 Speaker 2: SOS mode, the idea of shady things happening out here 326 00:19:31,091 --> 00:19:35,931 Speaker 2: seems like a real possibility. Hey, dude, I think I 327 00:19:35,971 --> 00:19:39,330 Speaker 2: feel like maybe we shouldn't hit it. It's We're getting 328 00:19:39,371 --> 00:19:41,291 Speaker 2: like pretty far out in the middle of nowhere here, 329 00:19:41,331 --> 00:19:42,571 Speaker 2: and no one knows we're out here. 330 00:19:43,891 --> 00:19:47,211 Speaker 7: I was thinking, I didn't want to say anything. I 331 00:19:47,371 --> 00:19:49,371 Speaker 7: didn't want to be the weaning of the group. Let's 332 00:19:49,411 --> 00:19:53,011 Speaker 7: les let go, Let's not beat around the bush, let's 333 00:19:53,011 --> 00:19:56,731 Speaker 7: get out of the bush. The second Haley gives me 334 00:19:56,771 --> 00:20:00,291 Speaker 7: an out, I pretty much take off running because I'm 335 00:20:00,691 --> 00:20:04,211 Speaker 7: always thinking of worst case scenarios, falling off a cliff, 336 00:20:04,331 --> 00:20:07,451 Speaker 7: getting attacked by a bear. Now I have to worry 337 00:20:07,451 --> 00:20:10,491 Speaker 7: about stumbling on a meth lab. I don't have to, 338 00:20:10,771 --> 00:20:14,330 Speaker 7: but I will, because that's just who I am. A 339 00:20:14,451 --> 00:20:18,051 Speaker 7: firm believer in Murphy's law. That's why I didn't have 340 00:20:18,091 --> 00:20:21,971 Speaker 7: any trouble buying into the whole meth lab scenario. What 341 00:20:22,131 --> 00:20:24,491 Speaker 7: I want to know is how this area became a 342 00:20:24,491 --> 00:20:28,090 Speaker 7: meth hotspot in the first place. We don't have stats 343 00:20:28,091 --> 00:20:31,171 Speaker 7: specific to the Analov Valley, but here in the early 344 00:20:31,211 --> 00:20:35,531 Speaker 7: two thousands, a large scale drug syndicate was busted. Nearly 345 00:20:35,611 --> 00:20:40,731 Speaker 7: three hundred people were arrested, most classified as career criminals. 346 00:20:42,211 --> 00:20:44,371 Speaker 7: I grew up in a rural area where there was 347 00:20:44,411 --> 00:20:47,650 Speaker 7: a lot of drug activity hiding in plain sight, so 348 00:20:47,731 --> 00:20:51,330 Speaker 7: I know the av's remoteness is a factor, but it 349 00:20:51,371 --> 00:20:57,330 Speaker 7: turns out so are its big open skies. Since the 350 00:20:57,411 --> 00:21:01,731 Speaker 7: nineteen thirties, the US government and military contractors have been 351 00:21:01,731 --> 00:21:07,291 Speaker 7: testing planes, rockets, and explosives over the Annalov Valley. The 352 00:21:07,411 --> 00:21:11,051 Speaker 7: Edwards Air Force Base was built, defense plants moved in, 353 00:21:11,571 --> 00:21:15,211 Speaker 7: and it turned the area into an aeronautical frontier. 354 00:21:17,051 --> 00:21:20,651 Speaker 4: In October nineteen forty seven, at Nila Desert Test Center 355 00:21:20,691 --> 00:21:26,691 Speaker 4: in California, history is made by this aircraft and its pilot, Captain. 356 00:21:26,411 --> 00:21:29,771 Speaker 7: Vieger, and it was over this part of the Anilo 357 00:21:29,931 --> 00:21:33,330 Speaker 7: Valley where Air Force pilot Chuck Yaeger pushed his plane 358 00:21:33,451 --> 00:21:36,211 Speaker 7: up to seven hundred miles per hour and broke the 359 00:21:36,331 --> 00:21:37,091 Speaker 7: sound barrier. 360 00:21:37,811 --> 00:21:41,531 Speaker 1: For at time a man has blown an airplane. Not 361 00:21:41,731 --> 00:21:42,891 Speaker 1: there than the fiel of God. 362 00:21:45,891 --> 00:21:49,330 Speaker 7: These military experiments over the AV are actually where the 363 00:21:49,371 --> 00:21:53,771 Speaker 7: principle of Murphy's law comes from. Because these space cowboys 364 00:21:53,771 --> 00:21:56,411 Speaker 7: got so banged up while pushing their bodies to the 365 00:21:56,451 --> 00:22:00,291 Speaker 7: limit resisting the forces of gravity and physics that an 366 00:22:00,331 --> 00:22:03,731 Speaker 7: engineer on the project, a guy named Edward Murphy, said 367 00:22:03,771 --> 00:22:06,811 Speaker 7: something along the lines of anything that can go wrong 368 00:22:07,131 --> 00:22:11,011 Speaker 7: will go wrong. It be long before things would start 369 00:22:11,051 --> 00:22:15,091 Speaker 7: to go wrong across the Antelote Valley. The av had 370 00:22:15,091 --> 00:22:18,890 Speaker 7: a legacy of record breaking speed, and its residents developed 371 00:22:18,891 --> 00:22:23,850 Speaker 7: an appetite for the drug version of rocket fuel meth anthetamine. 372 00:22:25,451 --> 00:22:29,091 Speaker 7: Meth just made life easier out there. Factory workers took 373 00:22:29,171 --> 00:22:32,891 Speaker 7: the drug to power through long shifts at defense contractor plants. 374 00:22:33,611 --> 00:22:36,171 Speaker 7: Construction workers used it to keep up with the area's 375 00:22:36,211 --> 00:22:39,771 Speaker 7: housing boom, and commuters relied on meth to stay awake 376 00:22:39,851 --> 00:22:43,850 Speaker 7: during the brutal drive to and from Los Angeles. But 377 00:22:43,971 --> 00:22:47,531 Speaker 7: moderate matthews turned into a full blown epidemic in the 378 00:22:47,571 --> 00:22:51,651 Speaker 7: early nineties as the Cold War came to an abrupt end. 379 00:22:52,411 --> 00:22:56,011 Speaker 9: The aerospace cutback soon created a domino effect across the 380 00:22:56,051 --> 00:23:00,691 Speaker 9: Antalope Valley, and the munce thriving economy began to evaporate, like. 381 00:23:00,771 --> 00:23:02,571 Speaker 3: So much water in the hot desert sun. 382 00:23:03,771 --> 00:23:07,211 Speaker 7: The meth trade became an easy option for unemployed residents 383 00:23:07,251 --> 00:23:08,251 Speaker 7: to make some cash. 384 00:23:09,411 --> 00:23:11,971 Speaker 8: At the time, the Anlope Valley was a sesspool. It 385 00:23:12,011 --> 00:23:15,731 Speaker 8: was a desert. It was known for manufacturing met the amphetamine, 386 00:23:15,771 --> 00:23:17,811 Speaker 8: so people were getting busted left and right. 387 00:23:18,851 --> 00:23:19,931 Speaker 7: This is Chris Turk. 388 00:23:20,811 --> 00:23:23,291 Speaker 8: My dad calls me Christine when I'm in trouble, but 389 00:23:23,331 --> 00:23:25,051 Speaker 8: most couldn't call me Chris. 390 00:23:25,371 --> 00:23:28,891 Speaker 7: Chris Turk is originally from Massachusetts, but she got stationed 391 00:23:28,891 --> 00:23:31,451 Speaker 7: in the Antelope Valley while working for the US Army. 392 00:23:32,251 --> 00:23:35,011 Speaker 7: She left the military after a few years, had a family, 393 00:23:35,491 --> 00:23:38,371 Speaker 7: and then found work with a local attorney. Because when 394 00:23:38,371 --> 00:23:42,931 Speaker 7: Matthew skyrocketed, so did the need for criminal defense. What 395 00:23:43,131 --> 00:23:44,371 Speaker 7: was your position with him? 396 00:23:44,891 --> 00:23:47,251 Speaker 8: At first it was just apparently ago, and then it 397 00:23:47,571 --> 00:23:50,811 Speaker 8: was investigative. I would go out on the streets and 398 00:23:50,811 --> 00:23:52,211 Speaker 8: I would talk to the people. I would talk to 399 00:23:52,291 --> 00:23:55,251 Speaker 8: some cops. I would join Everett to defend the client. 400 00:23:56,051 --> 00:23:58,171 Speaker 7: Turk discovered she had a real knack for it. 401 00:23:58,851 --> 00:24:02,651 Speaker 8: All the lawyers started asking my boss if I could 402 00:24:02,651 --> 00:24:03,851 Speaker 8: work on some of their cases. 403 00:24:04,571 --> 00:24:06,850 Speaker 7: She was good at getting people to open up me. 404 00:24:07,051 --> 00:24:09,771 Speaker 8: I was more on their level. They would all talk 405 00:24:09,811 --> 00:24:13,731 Speaker 8: to me. My ex husband is the half brother of 406 00:24:13,771 --> 00:24:16,331 Speaker 8: these other two guys that were involved in a lot 407 00:24:16,371 --> 00:24:17,531 Speaker 8: of the drug scene. 408 00:24:18,211 --> 00:24:20,371 Speaker 7: And she had a last name that carried weight with 409 00:24:20,451 --> 00:24:21,171 Speaker 7: drug users. 410 00:24:21,771 --> 00:24:23,771 Speaker 8: Even though it was your marriage. A lot of them 411 00:24:23,811 --> 00:24:26,531 Speaker 8: would just assume I was part of that family. They 412 00:24:26,571 --> 00:24:29,171 Speaker 8: were really easy to get information, sometimes too easy. 413 00:24:30,131 --> 00:24:32,811 Speaker 7: The attorney Turk worked for had a meth habit of 414 00:24:32,811 --> 00:24:35,931 Speaker 7: his own, so his law firm was well connected with 415 00:24:35,971 --> 00:24:39,731 Speaker 7: the drug scene, and over time Turk learned a lot 416 00:24:39,771 --> 00:24:42,691 Speaker 7: about the criminal ecosystem in the valley, who the big 417 00:24:42,691 --> 00:24:46,370 Speaker 7: dealers were, where their laps were located, and which cops 418 00:24:46,371 --> 00:24:49,491 Speaker 7: were making the busts. And she started to notice a 419 00:24:49,491 --> 00:24:52,850 Speaker 7: trend that it was just the low level offenders who 420 00:24:52,851 --> 00:24:56,371 Speaker 7: were getting picked up over and over again, but none 421 00:24:56,371 --> 00:25:00,411 Speaker 7: of the heavyweights who were supplying the drugs, people like 422 00:25:00,491 --> 00:25:05,971 Speaker 7: Tom Hinkle. Hinkle spent decades working in a manufacturing and 423 00:25:06,011 --> 00:25:09,691 Speaker 7: testing site for explosives. Just a few years before Auj 424 00:25:09,811 --> 00:25:12,171 Speaker 7: went missing, a woman was killed in the desert by 425 00:25:12,211 --> 00:25:16,811 Speaker 7: a homemade bomb near Hinkle's house. According to LSD reports, 426 00:25:17,291 --> 00:25:20,771 Speaker 7: tire tracks led directly from the explosion to Hinkle's place, 427 00:25:21,571 --> 00:25:24,011 Speaker 7: yet he was never arrested or charged in the case. 428 00:25:25,051 --> 00:25:28,731 Speaker 7: This would become a theme for Hinkle. He seemed untouchable. 429 00:25:29,611 --> 00:25:31,651 Speaker 8: He would have been one of the first people I invested, 430 00:25:32,211 --> 00:25:35,731 Speaker 8: yet he ever was ever that one's never even touched. 431 00:25:36,931 --> 00:25:39,251 Speaker 7: By the late nineties, Hinkle had a day job working 432 00:25:39,291 --> 00:25:42,451 Speaker 7: at a gas station a long pair Blossom Highway near 433 00:25:42,491 --> 00:25:45,411 Speaker 7: the punch Bowl that's where he'd meet with a range 434 00:25:45,411 --> 00:25:48,491 Speaker 7: of characters, including local sheriff's deputies. 435 00:25:49,411 --> 00:25:54,411 Speaker 8: He became the guy on the hill, and he became idolized. 436 00:25:55,051 --> 00:25:58,090 Speaker 7: And then something seemed to elevate Hinkle from a dealer 437 00:25:58,811 --> 00:26:00,171 Speaker 7: to something more mythic. 438 00:26:01,651 --> 00:26:05,571 Speaker 8: Everybody would call him God because he had that power. 439 00:26:06,091 --> 00:26:07,931 Speaker 1: Before Aj, he was just Hinkle. 440 00:26:09,531 --> 00:26:09,731 Speaker 4: Jay. 441 00:26:09,731 --> 00:26:10,211 Speaker 8: He was God. 442 00:26:11,411 --> 00:26:16,330 Speaker 7: He didn't start calling himself God until after the aj disappearance. 443 00:26:17,171 --> 00:26:19,571 Speaker 1: Yep, yep. 444 00:26:22,851 --> 00:26:25,851 Speaker 7: There are plenty of people with a God complex, but 445 00:26:25,971 --> 00:26:30,491 Speaker 7: few are so brazen to actually call themselves God. So 446 00:26:30,491 --> 00:26:34,610 Speaker 7: when Hinkle takes on the title, Turk is floored. And 447 00:26:34,651 --> 00:26:38,291 Speaker 7: then she hears about Hinkle's possible connection to Auji's disappearance. 448 00:26:39,091 --> 00:26:41,571 Speaker 7: She hears it from Sue and Mike, who were clients 449 00:26:41,611 --> 00:26:42,891 Speaker 7: of the lawyer she worked for. 450 00:26:44,371 --> 00:26:47,251 Speaker 6: Tom Hinkl's the one who told all the information about 451 00:26:47,291 --> 00:26:49,291 Speaker 6: the cop who ran across something. 452 00:26:48,971 --> 00:26:49,571 Speaker 4: He shouldn't have. 453 00:26:50,011 --> 00:26:51,971 Speaker 6: Everybody called them God. He untouchable. 454 00:26:55,091 --> 00:26:58,571 Speaker 2: Turk notifies the authorities because this isn't a low level 455 00:26:58,651 --> 00:27:02,651 Speaker 2: drug offense, this is a possible homicide, and she goes 456 00:27:02,691 --> 00:27:06,771 Speaker 2: straight to the top, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, which 457 00:27:06,811 --> 00:27:08,451 Speaker 2: has a field office in the area. 458 00:27:09,731 --> 00:27:14,371 Speaker 8: And I talked to these two federal agents about what 459 00:27:14,571 --> 00:27:15,091 Speaker 8: was going on. 460 00:27:16,291 --> 00:27:20,251 Speaker 2: Turk offers to introduce the FBI agents to Mike, but 461 00:27:20,411 --> 00:27:23,851 Speaker 2: she says the meeting didn't go so well because when 462 00:27:23,891 --> 00:27:25,891 Speaker 2: she and one of the agents show up to talk 463 00:27:25,931 --> 00:27:28,211 Speaker 2: to Mike, he's hitting a meth pipe. 464 00:27:28,691 --> 00:27:31,331 Speaker 8: I mean, I'm talking a clouded smoke when we opened 465 00:27:31,371 --> 00:27:33,651 Speaker 8: the door and the FBI agent and I just looked 466 00:27:33,651 --> 00:27:34,171 Speaker 8: at each other. 467 00:27:35,771 --> 00:27:38,011 Speaker 2: We reached out to the FBI to ask about their 468 00:27:38,051 --> 00:27:41,091 Speaker 2: involvement in the AUJ case, but they give us their 469 00:27:41,131 --> 00:27:44,491 Speaker 2: standard line that they can neither confirm nor deny the 470 00:27:44,491 --> 00:27:48,091 Speaker 2: existence of an investigation. So we don't know what came 471 00:27:48,131 --> 00:27:51,731 Speaker 2: of Turk's tip to the Feds, but the info eventually 472 00:27:51,771 --> 00:27:55,451 Speaker 2: makes its way to homicide Detective Larry Brandenburg, who does 473 00:27:55,491 --> 00:27:56,291 Speaker 2: follow up on it. 474 00:27:57,811 --> 00:28:01,491 Speaker 1: Chris Turk was involved in the whole myth drug culture world, 475 00:28:02,211 --> 00:28:04,171 Speaker 1: so I'd talked to her. If I could get information 476 00:28:04,211 --> 00:28:07,051 Speaker 1: from her, I'll take it, you know, And if it's oh, crap, 477 00:28:07,091 --> 00:28:08,371 Speaker 1: I just discarded. 478 00:28:09,571 --> 00:28:13,451 Speaker 2: Determining the credibility of informant statements is a complicated art. 479 00:28:14,171 --> 00:28:16,531 Speaker 2: There are plenty of reasons that Sue and Mike and 480 00:28:16,611 --> 00:28:21,571 Speaker 2: others related to the Aujay case may be untrustworthy. Informants 481 00:28:21,611 --> 00:28:26,051 Speaker 2: are often longtime drug users with fuzzy memories, lengthy criminal histories, 482 00:28:26,291 --> 00:28:31,011 Speaker 2: and ulterior motives, so Brandenburg says you have to listen 483 00:28:31,051 --> 00:28:33,130 Speaker 2: to them and suss out their claims accordingly. 484 00:28:33,971 --> 00:28:36,291 Speaker 1: If you just just treaded everybody and you don't follow 485 00:28:36,371 --> 00:28:39,091 Speaker 1: up on none of it, you're gonna buy anything out. 486 00:28:40,291 --> 00:28:43,651 Speaker 2: Brandenburg was skeptical going into his interviews with Sue and Mike, 487 00:28:44,211 --> 00:28:47,371 Speaker 2: but by the end he believed the couple because they 488 00:28:47,411 --> 00:28:50,091 Speaker 2: had little to gain. Sue already had a release date 489 00:28:50,131 --> 00:28:54,451 Speaker 2: for her burglary charge and a lot to lose. Brandenburg 490 00:28:54,451 --> 00:28:57,171 Speaker 2: says it would be incredibly shortsighted for them to lie 491 00:28:57,211 --> 00:28:59,811 Speaker 2: about a man who had a reputation for being a 492 00:28:59,851 --> 00:29:01,051 Speaker 2: cold hearted killer. 493 00:29:02,771 --> 00:29:05,331 Speaker 1: That's a pretty dangerous thing to do if you just 494 00:29:05,411 --> 00:29:10,771 Speaker 1: make it up stories. I mean, that's really dumb. I 495 00:29:10,891 --> 00:29:14,091 Speaker 1: was sure wouldn't consider doing it because if it gets 496 00:29:14,131 --> 00:29:17,091 Speaker 1: back that you're snitching, or even if you're making this 497 00:29:17,171 --> 00:29:18,491 Speaker 1: shit up, you're going to pay for it. 498 00:29:19,531 --> 00:29:22,251 Speaker 2: He also says that Sue and Mike and others would 499 00:29:22,291 --> 00:29:25,131 Speaker 2: go on to tell the story many times, and the 500 00:29:25,171 --> 00:29:28,131 Speaker 2: stories were similar and remained largely consistent. 501 00:29:28,971 --> 00:29:32,571 Speaker 1: The little details might change, but the main theme of 502 00:29:32,611 --> 00:29:34,611 Speaker 1: it shouldn't if you're telling the truth. 503 00:29:35,851 --> 00:29:39,371 Speaker 2: And one hyper specific detail that never varied was the 504 00:29:39,371 --> 00:29:42,451 Speaker 2: description of Hinkle's hand gesture, the one where he made 505 00:29:42,491 --> 00:29:46,651 Speaker 2: a finger gun. That detail sticks with Brandenburg because there'd 506 00:29:46,691 --> 00:29:50,731 Speaker 2: been talk of a gunshot from another source. In June 507 00:29:50,771 --> 00:29:54,531 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight, a witness reported to Missing Persons detectives 508 00:29:54,811 --> 00:29:57,611 Speaker 2: that he heard the sound of a firearm discharged around 509 00:29:57,651 --> 00:30:00,011 Speaker 2: sunset the night au Jay disappeared. 510 00:30:01,011 --> 00:30:03,531 Speaker 1: We had talked about someone saying they heard a gunshot. 511 00:30:04,771 --> 00:30:08,611 Speaker 2: Devil's punch Bowl Park ranger Jack Farley remembers hearing this 512 00:30:08,691 --> 00:30:11,811 Speaker 2: detail during to search for auj You. 513 00:30:11,771 --> 00:30:15,531 Speaker 4: Can't see the house from here, but it's like a 514 00:30:15,571 --> 00:30:18,131 Speaker 4: half mile below the trail up there where the people 515 00:30:18,171 --> 00:30:19,011 Speaker 4: lived that said they. 516 00:30:18,931 --> 00:30:23,211 Speaker 2: Heard that, And paralegal Chris Turk says the gunshot was 517 00:30:23,251 --> 00:30:24,331 Speaker 2: discussed around town. 518 00:30:25,171 --> 00:30:27,411 Speaker 8: There was one shot like that, one witness said, because 519 00:30:27,411 --> 00:30:28,651 Speaker 8: that's when I heard on the street. 520 00:30:29,651 --> 00:30:32,851 Speaker 2: Brandenburg tries to track down the witness using the name 521 00:30:32,931 --> 00:30:34,491 Speaker 2: listed in the Missing Person's book. 522 00:30:35,411 --> 00:30:38,011 Speaker 1: That guy wouldn't talk to me. I tried more than 523 00:30:38,051 --> 00:30:40,091 Speaker 1: once to go talk to him. I think he worked 524 00:30:40,411 --> 00:30:42,171 Speaker 1: at the punch bowl or he lived right by it. 525 00:30:42,811 --> 00:30:46,731 Speaker 1: So the gunshots heard near the punch bowl a single gunshot. 526 00:30:48,331 --> 00:30:51,971 Speaker 2: These details keep adding up, and Brandenburg starts to see 527 00:30:51,971 --> 00:30:55,891 Speaker 2: how the scenario might have played out. Auj was running 528 00:30:55,931 --> 00:30:57,571 Speaker 2: past one of Hinkle's meth labs. 529 00:30:58,171 --> 00:31:00,011 Speaker 1: He saw a bunch of streakers hanging out there, and 530 00:31:00,051 --> 00:31:02,251 Speaker 1: then they're all sitting there with their hands in the 531 00:31:02,291 --> 00:31:06,011 Speaker 1: cookie jard. Oh what the fuck we do now? Gee, 532 00:31:06,011 --> 00:31:09,371 Speaker 1: we can't let this guy leave. He never left. 533 00:31:10,891 --> 00:31:14,251 Speaker 2: Brandenburg decides it's time to send the information up the 534 00:31:14,291 --> 00:31:17,571 Speaker 2: flagpole to the homicide captain. Tell him what he's hearing 535 00:31:17,611 --> 00:31:21,011 Speaker 2: from informants. But the captain blows him off. 536 00:31:21,811 --> 00:31:25,131 Speaker 1: Oh that's just tweaker talk. Tweaker talk, that's all it is. 537 00:31:27,291 --> 00:31:31,611 Speaker 2: Brandenburg says that term tweaker talk was used to discredit 538 00:31:31,691 --> 00:31:35,291 Speaker 2: informants like Sue and Mike and undermine the theory that 539 00:31:35,371 --> 00:31:36,371 Speaker 2: Aujy was murdered. 540 00:31:37,291 --> 00:31:40,091 Speaker 1: Well, tweakers do talks best e when they get high, 541 00:31:40,451 --> 00:31:43,731 Speaker 1: they talk amongst each other. Yeah, some of it's embellis, 542 00:31:43,811 --> 00:31:46,651 Speaker 1: some of it's changed. But if you had a main theme, 543 00:31:46,731 --> 00:31:49,291 Speaker 1: it's keep getting repeated. There could be something to that. 544 00:31:50,411 --> 00:31:53,731 Speaker 2: Tweaker talk is a term Chris Turk is also familiar 545 00:31:53,731 --> 00:31:56,851 Speaker 2: with because it was used to discredit many of the 546 00:31:56,891 --> 00:32:00,291 Speaker 2: clients she worked with. She doesn't deny that meth users 547 00:32:00,331 --> 00:32:03,691 Speaker 2: are often sleep deprived and paranoid, but that doesn't mean 548 00:32:03,731 --> 00:32:07,131 Speaker 2: they don't have valuable information, especially when it comes to 549 00:32:07,171 --> 00:32:08,051 Speaker 2: a subject they know. 550 00:32:09,411 --> 00:32:12,011 Speaker 8: The same tweakers that they said were not reliable. You 551 00:32:12,011 --> 00:32:14,651 Speaker 8: couldn't get information from him, well, the same ones that 552 00:32:14,651 --> 00:32:18,251 Speaker 8: they used information forwards to bust other people. So you 553 00:32:18,291 --> 00:32:20,451 Speaker 8: can't listen to him on one hand and not listen 554 00:32:20,491 --> 00:32:21,451 Speaker 8: to him on the other hand. 555 00:32:22,571 --> 00:32:26,291 Speaker 2: When an informant provides leads that pan out for law enforcement, 556 00:32:26,771 --> 00:32:31,571 Speaker 2: their status changes to a confidential, reliable informant, and one 557 00:32:31,571 --> 00:32:34,451 Speaker 2: of the best ways for investigators to determine if these 558 00:32:34,531 --> 00:32:38,491 Speaker 2: leads are legit is to keep investigating see if the 559 00:32:38,531 --> 00:32:40,251 Speaker 2: intel can be corroborated. 560 00:32:41,211 --> 00:32:44,971 Speaker 1: To me, that needs to be looked at real hard 561 00:32:44,971 --> 00:32:47,131 Speaker 1: and seriously. Not Ah, she's a freaking tweaker. I don't 562 00:32:47,131 --> 00:32:50,051 Speaker 1: believe the things she says, especially when it's already coming 563 00:32:50,051 --> 00:32:51,291 Speaker 1: from some other sources. 564 00:32:51,811 --> 00:32:55,251 Speaker 2: But Brandenburg says he couldn't really do that because his 565 00:32:55,371 --> 00:32:59,571 Speaker 2: captain undermined him at every turn, called him names, and 566 00:32:59,731 --> 00:33:02,411 Speaker 2: tried to strong arm him into folding his investigation. 567 00:33:03,411 --> 00:33:05,131 Speaker 1: And I told him this bullshit. I don't agree with it. 568 00:33:06,411 --> 00:33:07,131 Speaker 5: We heard from you. 569 00:33:07,211 --> 00:33:08,331 Speaker 7: Why you're so passionate about it? 570 00:33:08,331 --> 00:33:10,131 Speaker 2: Why do you think he had such reaction? 571 00:33:10,771 --> 00:33:13,691 Speaker 1: I don't know. That's the question I can't answer. 572 00:33:15,291 --> 00:33:20,091 Speaker 2: Brandenburg is taken aback by homicide Captain Frank Merryman's aggressive 573 00:33:20,131 --> 00:33:24,131 Speaker 2: attempts to put the AUJ matter to bed, especially after 574 00:33:24,251 --> 00:33:26,771 Speaker 2: he finds a note in the missing person's file from 575 00:33:26,811 --> 00:33:30,171 Speaker 2: Merryman which shows that Captain may have had his own 576 00:33:30,251 --> 00:33:31,291 Speaker 2: doubts about the case. 577 00:33:32,331 --> 00:33:34,331 Speaker 1: I found a little posted when I was looking through 578 00:33:34,331 --> 00:33:36,731 Speaker 1: the original file. When I first got it, yell will 579 00:33:36,771 --> 00:33:40,691 Speaker 1: post it, and it was Frank's handwriting and his initials, 580 00:33:40,851 --> 00:33:43,531 Speaker 1: and it said should this go to a murder team? 581 00:33:45,811 --> 00:33:49,091 Speaker 2: To me, this feels like a no brainer. It should 582 00:33:49,091 --> 00:33:52,011 Speaker 2: have gone to a murder team to thoroughly vet the tips, 583 00:33:52,131 --> 00:33:56,211 Speaker 2: to prove or disprove them. That should have happened three 584 00:33:56,331 --> 00:33:59,931 Speaker 2: days after Auj went missing, when the tips first started 585 00:33:59,931 --> 00:34:03,611 Speaker 2: coming in. If not, then it should have happened as 586 00:34:03,731 --> 00:34:08,171 Speaker 2: more and more informants came forward, and it definitely should 587 00:34:08,171 --> 00:34:11,611 Speaker 2: have been investigated in May of nineteen ninety nine, when 588 00:34:11,651 --> 00:34:14,851 Speaker 2: a large scale meth lab was discovered near the punch 589 00:34:14,891 --> 00:34:16,770 Speaker 2: Bowl where AUJ disappeared. 590 00:34:38,891 --> 00:34:42,411 Speaker 7: A few weeks into Detective Brandenburg's investigation, he gets a 591 00:34:42,451 --> 00:34:45,771 Speaker 7: new lead from an LSD sergeant working narcotics in the 592 00:34:45,811 --> 00:34:49,731 Speaker 7: Annealo Valley. He tells Brandenburg about a property they searched 593 00:34:49,851 --> 00:34:53,290 Speaker 7: the year before, a meth lab that was located right 594 00:34:53,331 --> 00:34:55,011 Speaker 7: down the road from the Devil's Punch Bowl. 595 00:34:56,491 --> 00:34:58,730 Speaker 1: Okay, let me get him a barry to this, Matt. 596 00:35:00,211 --> 00:35:03,131 Speaker 1: Here's the punch bowl right here. This is how close 597 00:35:03,171 --> 00:35:06,011 Speaker 1: it was, and hinkled it right over here too. 598 00:35:07,531 --> 00:35:10,730 Speaker 7: There was a meth lab near where AUJ disappeared. It 599 00:35:10,771 --> 00:35:13,971 Speaker 7: wasn't in the punch Bowl technically, but it was close by, 600 00:35:14,691 --> 00:35:17,091 Speaker 7: just two miles up the road that leads to the 601 00:35:17,131 --> 00:35:18,171 Speaker 7: Punch Bowl parking lot. 602 00:35:18,771 --> 00:35:23,571 Speaker 1: The searcht was served at Devil's punch Bowl Road, Para Blossom, California, 603 00:35:23,731 --> 00:35:27,851 Speaker 1: a forty acre parcel land located immediately northwest of Devil's 604 00:35:27,891 --> 00:35:31,331 Speaker 1: punch Bowl County Park. During the search warrant, a major 605 00:35:31,371 --> 00:35:33,131 Speaker 1: myth ampatami lab was discovered. 606 00:35:34,091 --> 00:35:37,331 Speaker 7: Brandenburg's reading the search warrant from May of nineteen ninety nine. 607 00:35:38,171 --> 00:35:41,531 Speaker 7: That's when the LASD and other law enforcement agencies busted 608 00:35:41,571 --> 00:35:45,411 Speaker 7: the lab. Brandenburg connects it to the AUJ case in 609 00:35:45,491 --> 00:35:49,531 Speaker 7: early two thousand and So were you the first person 610 00:35:49,611 --> 00:35:53,611 Speaker 7: to make the connection between what some of these informants 611 00:35:53,611 --> 00:35:58,851 Speaker 7: were reporting and the lab that was found near the 612 00:35:58,851 --> 00:35:59,571 Speaker 7: punch Bowl? 613 00:36:00,011 --> 00:36:02,011 Speaker 1: I think so, because I don't read any of it 614 00:36:02,091 --> 00:36:04,331 Speaker 1: in these reports earlier on about that. 615 00:36:07,611 --> 00:36:11,211 Speaker 7: For Brandenburg, this was outside conference that the informant statements 616 00:36:11,251 --> 00:36:11,810 Speaker 7: weren't just. 617 00:36:11,771 --> 00:36:12,491 Speaker 1: Tweak or talk. 618 00:36:13,451 --> 00:36:15,771 Speaker 7: The lab was located down the road from the Devil's 619 00:36:15,811 --> 00:36:18,811 Speaker 7: Punch Bowl, a straight shot from the park. 620 00:36:19,851 --> 00:36:20,731 Speaker 1: But that's not all. 621 00:36:20,851 --> 00:36:23,770 Speaker 7: It was owned by a good friend of Tom Hankles, 622 00:36:24,251 --> 00:36:28,171 Speaker 7: a guy named Rick Carroll. Carroll operated the lab on 623 00:36:28,211 --> 00:36:31,611 Speaker 7: his property and he let other people cook there. It 624 00:36:31,691 --> 00:36:34,690 Speaker 7: was a kind of meth making co op and a 625 00:36:34,771 --> 00:36:39,411 Speaker 7: hangout spot for all sorts of local drug users. The 626 00:36:39,491 --> 00:36:42,651 Speaker 7: lab had already been dismantled by the time Brandenburg enters 627 00:36:42,691 --> 00:36:46,011 Speaker 7: the scene, but he sets out to learn everything he 628 00:36:46,091 --> 00:36:49,931 Speaker 7: can from reports. The day of the lab bust, about 629 00:36:49,931 --> 00:36:53,131 Speaker 7: two dozen law enforcement officers fan out across the property. 630 00:36:53,811 --> 00:36:56,810 Speaker 7: They're led by an LA County Sheriff's deputy who lives 631 00:36:56,851 --> 00:36:59,690 Speaker 7: and works in Pair Blossom, where the punch bowl and 632 00:36:59,731 --> 00:37:00,931 Speaker 7: the lab are located. 633 00:37:02,131 --> 00:37:05,651 Speaker 1: Rick ingkles it was a resident deputy. I will sorry 634 00:37:05,731 --> 00:37:08,251 Speaker 1: the area he lived in. He knew this area probably 635 00:37:08,211 --> 00:37:08,891 Speaker 1: better than anybody. 636 00:37:09,851 --> 00:37:13,091 Speaker 7: Deputy Angles also knows the players in the drug scene 637 00:37:13,451 --> 00:37:16,651 Speaker 7: and how to navigate the desert terrain. So as he 638 00:37:16,811 --> 00:37:20,210 Speaker 7: and others search the Carroll property, they discover an assortment 639 00:37:20,251 --> 00:37:25,411 Speaker 7: of trailers, cars, and storage containers. Law enforcement uses the 640 00:37:25,531 --> 00:37:29,331 Speaker 7: steel probe to check the ground for buried objects because 641 00:37:29,571 --> 00:37:33,571 Speaker 7: meth users are known to get creative when hiding their stash. 642 00:37:33,891 --> 00:37:37,811 Speaker 7: In this case, searchers find something much bigger. The probe 643 00:37:37,851 --> 00:37:42,131 Speaker 7: strikes metal, and law enforcement uncovers a hatch that opens 644 00:37:42,211 --> 00:37:44,771 Speaker 7: up into an underground room. 645 00:37:45,251 --> 00:37:48,211 Speaker 1: It was extensive at underground tunnels. They had underground rooms, 646 00:37:48,211 --> 00:37:52,051 Speaker 1: They had all the hardware, the glassware. These is a 647 00:37:52,091 --> 00:37:53,011 Speaker 1: pretty big operation. 648 00:37:54,491 --> 00:37:58,531 Speaker 7: There is all sorts of stuff down there, a propane stove, flasks, 649 00:37:58,971 --> 00:38:02,850 Speaker 7: and telltale blood like stains created by red phosphorus, one 650 00:38:02,851 --> 00:38:06,811 Speaker 7: of the major chemicals used to make meth. Something deputies 651 00:38:06,851 --> 00:38:10,531 Speaker 7: didn't find was meth. It appears to have been cleared 652 00:38:10,531 --> 00:38:13,331 Speaker 7: out before the raid, but the lab likely would have 653 00:38:13,331 --> 00:38:16,131 Speaker 7: been active in nineteen ninety eight when Aujy disappeared. 654 00:38:16,811 --> 00:38:19,571 Speaker 1: The lab equipment recovered was capable of producing hundreds of 655 00:38:19,571 --> 00:38:22,091 Speaker 1: pounds of mess amfetamine. In addition, there was an operational 656 00:38:22,131 --> 00:38:25,011 Speaker 1: back hole on the property also recovered as one shot 657 00:38:25,051 --> 00:38:27,731 Speaker 1: got along with hundreds of additional pieces of evidence. 658 00:38:29,091 --> 00:38:32,251 Speaker 7: And there was another notable discovery at the compound. 659 00:38:33,411 --> 00:38:37,131 Speaker 1: The southeast portion of the meth lab, which have been 660 00:38:37,171 --> 00:38:39,531 Speaker 1: on this side of it, drops right down into the 661 00:38:39,531 --> 00:38:42,291 Speaker 1: punch bowl and that's where the shooting range was that 662 00:38:42,331 --> 00:38:44,651 Speaker 1: they had, and they had silhouettes of cops at that 663 00:38:44,691 --> 00:38:47,171 Speaker 1: shooting range. Can you say that again? 664 00:38:47,251 --> 00:38:51,770 Speaker 7: There were silhouettes of cops that the people that were 665 00:38:51,771 --> 00:38:53,411 Speaker 7: at this math lab would. 666 00:38:53,131 --> 00:38:56,770 Speaker 1: Take shots at yeah, target practice, So these guys don't 667 00:38:56,771 --> 00:38:57,730 Speaker 1: want like cops too much. 668 00:39:01,491 --> 00:39:04,811 Speaker 2: Brandenburg wants to better understand the proximity of the lab 669 00:39:05,091 --> 00:39:08,611 Speaker 2: to the punch bowl, something best seen from an aerial view, 670 00:39:09,491 --> 00:39:12,011 Speaker 2: so he calls up a colleague who flies helicopters for 671 00:39:12,091 --> 00:39:15,891 Speaker 2: the Sheriff's Department. He's a pilot from the Special Enforcement Bureau, 672 00:39:16,211 --> 00:39:20,011 Speaker 2: the same bureau auj worked for. They take off and 673 00:39:20,131 --> 00:39:21,731 Speaker 2: circle over the Carroll property. 674 00:39:22,691 --> 00:39:25,851 Speaker 1: You see right over here is this property and you 675 00:39:25,891 --> 00:39:28,171 Speaker 1: can see the outbuildings and the trailers where the meth 676 00:39:28,291 --> 00:39:30,571 Speaker 1: lab was, and all these trails. 677 00:39:31,651 --> 00:39:34,571 Speaker 2: Then the pilot makes an offhand comment about Auja that 678 00:39:34,771 --> 00:39:36,531 Speaker 2: causes things to click into place. 679 00:39:36,571 --> 00:39:39,131 Speaker 1: For Brandenburg, he goes, yeah, I used to run some 680 00:39:39,211 --> 00:39:40,290 Speaker 1: of those trails right there with. 681 00:39:40,211 --> 00:39:44,731 Speaker 7: Aujiy oh wow, So he knew some of the routes 682 00:39:44,731 --> 00:39:45,371 Speaker 7: that he would take. 683 00:39:48,211 --> 00:39:50,771 Speaker 2: So this lab was located right next to a trail 684 00:39:51,011 --> 00:39:54,250 Speaker 2: that auj had run before, and it was just two 685 00:39:54,291 --> 00:39:58,571 Speaker 2: miles from Raje's truck was discovered, which is almost the 686 00:39:58,611 --> 00:40:03,491 Speaker 2: finish line in ultra marathon terms. At this point, a 687 00:40:03,531 --> 00:40:06,891 Speaker 2: lot begins to gel for Brandenburg. He's more convinced than 688 00:40:06,931 --> 00:40:09,171 Speaker 2: ever by what the informants have told him. 689 00:40:09,931 --> 00:40:13,810 Speaker 1: All that stuff just started adding up all the time 690 00:40:13,891 --> 00:40:18,171 Speaker 1: of the investigator. I tell people this, even younger guys, 691 00:40:18,571 --> 00:40:21,690 Speaker 1: This cop stuff is not like TV. You go with 692 00:40:21,731 --> 00:40:26,290 Speaker 1: what makes common sense. Everything looks like this. Well usually 693 00:40:26,371 --> 00:40:28,210 Speaker 1: if it looks like that, that's what it is. 694 00:40:30,091 --> 00:40:32,771 Speaker 2: So we go to see what it looks like for ourselves. 695 00:40:34,171 --> 00:40:36,971 Speaker 2: As we approached the property where the Carroll lab was located, 696 00:40:37,371 --> 00:40:39,451 Speaker 2: it looks a lot like I imagined it did back 697 00:40:39,491 --> 00:40:43,331 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety nine. It's sprawling, dotted with structures and 698 00:40:43,371 --> 00:40:46,411 Speaker 2: shipping containers, and has a fence around the perimeter. 699 00:40:47,451 --> 00:40:51,251 Speaker 7: Seeing how close we are to where Aujay's truck was found, 700 00:40:52,211 --> 00:40:54,771 Speaker 7: and that there is like a little road here that 701 00:40:54,851 --> 00:40:58,091 Speaker 7: leads up to the mountains, it certainly seems possible that 702 00:40:58,131 --> 00:41:00,251 Speaker 7: he could have stumbled on this like as he was 703 00:41:00,291 --> 00:41:01,731 Speaker 7: trying to return to the park. 704 00:41:02,091 --> 00:41:03,810 Speaker 2: Yeah, that theory is starting to hold the more water 705 00:41:03,891 --> 00:41:07,531 Speaker 2: to me. It's after we leave the property that we 706 00:41:07,611 --> 00:41:10,571 Speaker 2: discover a new detail about the care Carrel lab that 707 00:41:10,651 --> 00:41:14,931 Speaker 2: it's close to another key location, in this case, driving 708 00:41:14,971 --> 00:41:17,651 Speaker 2: away from the Carroll property, we just happened to spot 709 00:41:17,691 --> 00:41:20,571 Speaker 2: a mailbox with an address of someone we've been trying 710 00:41:20,611 --> 00:41:24,451 Speaker 2: to reach for months. It turns out the witness who 711 00:41:24,491 --> 00:41:27,571 Speaker 2: reported hearing a gun shot at sunset the day All 712 00:41:27,611 --> 00:41:33,651 Speaker 2: Day went missing was Rick Carroll's closest neighbor. After coming 713 00:41:33,691 --> 00:41:38,171 Speaker 2: forward with the information, this witness stopped cooperating with law enforcement. 714 00:41:38,651 --> 00:41:41,011 Speaker 2: He won't return any of our calls either, and we 715 00:41:41,091 --> 00:41:43,611 Speaker 2: can't door knock him because his house is behind a 716 00:41:43,691 --> 00:41:47,571 Speaker 2: large security fence. But just seeing where he lived is 717 00:41:47,611 --> 00:41:50,810 Speaker 2: helpful because his home is just about a half mile 718 00:41:50,851 --> 00:41:53,211 Speaker 2: from the Carrol Lab in the direction of the punch bowl, 719 00:41:53,931 --> 00:41:57,091 Speaker 2: and that would be well within earshot of a gun going. 720 00:41:56,891 --> 00:41:59,811 Speaker 1: Off, which is Perry Mason. 721 00:41:59,851 --> 00:42:00,250 Speaker 4: This shit. 722 00:42:00,451 --> 00:42:04,931 Speaker 2: This changes my whole way of thinking about that theory. 723 00:42:05,811 --> 00:42:08,651 Speaker 7: How had the Sheriff's department not made any of these 724 00:42:08,691 --> 00:42:12,250 Speaker 7: connections before? For why when the Carol Lab was rated 725 00:42:12,291 --> 00:42:16,931 Speaker 7: in nineteen ninety nine, didn't someone think, huh, this seems 726 00:42:16,971 --> 00:42:19,851 Speaker 7: like a pretty big coincidence given all the rumors we've 727 00:42:19,931 --> 00:42:24,131 Speaker 7: heard about auj being killed. And that brings us back 728 00:42:24,411 --> 00:42:27,811 Speaker 7: to Murphy's law, which has come to mean that anything 729 00:42:27,851 --> 00:42:31,651 Speaker 7: that can go wrong will, But it's important to note 730 00:42:31,691 --> 00:42:35,691 Speaker 7: that's a slight mischaracterization of what space engineer Edward Murphy 731 00:42:35,811 --> 00:42:39,211 Speaker 7: actually said about the flight tests over the Antelope Valley. 732 00:42:40,291 --> 00:42:43,331 Speaker 7: What he said was, if there's anything they can do wrong, 733 00:42:43,731 --> 00:42:49,011 Speaker 7: they will. It's a small but important difference. The engineer 734 00:42:49,051 --> 00:42:52,011 Speaker 7: wasn't saying the world is powerless against the forces of 735 00:42:52,131 --> 00:42:56,811 Speaker 7: chaos and disaster. He was saying that humans are error prone, 736 00:42:57,531 --> 00:42:59,850 Speaker 7: and he said it as a way of explaining why 737 00:43:00,011 --> 00:43:03,851 Speaker 7: organizations need to have rigorous safeguards to catch their mistakes 738 00:43:04,571 --> 00:43:09,131 Speaker 7: due diligence, oversight, quality control so that the things that 739 00:43:09,211 --> 00:43:14,131 Speaker 7: can go wrong don't. In the Sheriff's Department's handling of 740 00:43:14,131 --> 00:43:17,211 Speaker 7: the AUJ case, it seems like a lot went wrong, 741 00:43:17,931 --> 00:43:21,131 Speaker 7: a series of system wide failures and a breakdown of 742 00:43:21,171 --> 00:43:23,571 Speaker 7: accountability with. 743 00:43:23,771 --> 00:43:26,611 Speaker 8: The AUJ thing that was too much of the same 744 00:43:26,771 --> 00:43:31,411 Speaker 8: thing being said, how many times do you have to 745 00:43:31,491 --> 00:43:35,451 Speaker 8: share it and not investigate with There's something more going 746 00:43:35,491 --> 00:43:36,011 Speaker 8: on here. 747 00:43:37,611 --> 00:43:43,211 Speaker 7: Brandenburg keeps investigating, but it's hard working in a vacuum, 748 00:43:43,251 --> 00:43:48,251 Speaker 7: and the Sheriff's Department isn't making things any easier for him. 749 00:43:48,371 --> 00:43:52,491 Speaker 7: The detective pushes on, though, and he discovers Auj's disappearance 750 00:43:53,011 --> 00:43:57,371 Speaker 7: may be connected to a bigger criminal enterprise, and as 751 00:43:57,411 --> 00:44:01,771 Speaker 7: the scope of his investigation expands, so does the pool 752 00:44:01,811 --> 00:44:02,611 Speaker 7: of suspects. 753 00:44:03,811 --> 00:44:05,851 Speaker 1: So the more I looked, you know, the more I 754 00:44:05,851 --> 00:44:10,411 Speaker 1: started document shit. It in a short time started snowballing, 755 00:44:10,491 --> 00:44:13,851 Speaker 1: and then the DEA got involved to try to tackle 756 00:44:13,891 --> 00:44:18,690 Speaker 1: this massive meth amphetamine problem in Animal Valley, you know, 757 00:44:18,811 --> 00:44:21,571 Speaker 1: the mostly white bikers that were cooking this stuff. 758 00:44:29,051 --> 00:44:32,571 Speaker 7: Next time on Valley of Shadows, the. 759 00:44:32,531 --> 00:44:36,091 Speaker 1: Outlaw bikers were big out there. If you crossed them, 760 00:44:36,291 --> 00:44:39,091 Speaker 1: there was a guaranteed death that was going to be murdered. 761 00:44:39,931 --> 00:44:42,331 Speaker 1: She said that there was a guy in the Bottles 762 00:44:42,411 --> 00:44:45,971 Speaker 1: motorcycle gang and she said he was involved in this 763 00:44:46,091 --> 00:44:48,531 Speaker 1: burder for the deputy and that she had been shown 764 00:44:48,531 --> 00:44:49,451 Speaker 1: where he was buried. 765 00:44:50,491 --> 00:44:53,251 Speaker 3: A body was found out in the remote. 766 00:44:52,891 --> 00:44:57,330 Speaker 4: Area, duct taped, bloodied. You could see it like that 767 00:44:57,611 --> 00:45:01,091 Speaker 4: imprint of a boot, a motorcycle boot on his face. 768 00:45:27,171 --> 00:45:30,011 Speaker 2: If you have any information or tips related to the 769 00:45:30,011 --> 00:45:34,531 Speaker 2: disappearance of John Aujay, please call two one three two 770 00:45:34,571 --> 00:45:39,651 Speaker 2: six two nine eight eight nine or email Shadows at 771 00:45:39,691 --> 00:45:44,651 Speaker 2: Pushkin dot FM. Valley of Shadows is reported, written and 772 00:45:44,731 --> 00:45:49,931 Speaker 2: produced by us Haley Fox and Betsy Sheppard. Our editor 773 00:45:50,011 --> 00:45:53,931 Speaker 2: is Diane Hodson. Our executive producers are Jacob Smith and 774 00:45:54,051 --> 00:45:59,971 Speaker 2: Alexandra Garreton. Original music by Jake Gorsky, Ray Lynch, Mike Jersich, 775 00:46:00,211 --> 00:46:05,211 Speaker 2: and Hayden Gardner. Sound designed by Jake Gorsky, fact checking 776 00:46:05,251 --> 00:46:09,771 Speaker 2: by Onica Robbins. Additional production support by Sonya girl Away 777 00:46:10,491 --> 00:46:13,371 Speaker 2: and Our show art was designed by Sean Carney and 778 00:46:13,451 --> 00:46:18,811 Speaker 2: Betsy Shepherd. Special thanks to Nick White for show art photography. 779 00:46:19,131 --> 00:46:22,730 Speaker 2: Valley of Shadows is a production of Pushkin Industries. To 780 00:46:22,811 --> 00:46:27,571 Speaker 2: find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 781 00:46:27,891 --> 00:46:31,330 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to podcasts. From type to Fun, 782 00:46:31,691 --> 00:46:34,931 Speaker 2: We're Haley and Betsy. See you next week.