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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season one, nine, Episode three,

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Speaker 1: After Days, I gus the production of My Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: This is a podcast where we take a deep dive

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Speaker 1: into America's shared consciousness. It is Wednesday, June one. My

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Speaker 1: name is Jack O'Brien a K. When I'm done pitching pods,

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Speaker 1: I go back on the Daily's I when I stopped,

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Speaker 1: but turned around and do meetings with Miles till I

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Speaker 1: get to the evening. Then I do it again. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I heart Empire Nanar Nanar Nanar Nano Heart Empire Nanar

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Speaker 1: Nano Nano nan That is uh an ak to Helter

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Speaker 1: Skelter courtesy of Johnny Davis, and I am thrilled to

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Speaker 1: be joined as always by my co host, Mr Miles Gray.

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Speaker 1: It's Miles Gray a k A Miles Gray Wolf ak

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Speaker 1: the Miles in the gray flannel suit aka the Portrait

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Speaker 1: of Miles Gray a gay. I can see about Miles

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Speaker 1: and Miles and Miles again when two for two today,

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Speaker 1: It's been a while, been a while, Johnny for those

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Speaker 1: as right, Yeah, trying to do that a K. Just

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Speaker 1: then give me a real appreciation for Paul McCartney's vocal

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Speaker 1: perform I think it's Paul McCartney's vocal performance on that.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's John lynnon but yeah, man, that was yeah

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Speaker 1: White album. I only know because of the Gray Album.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yeah, that's from the Gray Album right then,

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, Beatles then that means from White album,

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Speaker 1: right well, Miles. We are thrilled to be joined today

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Speaker 1: by a very talented podcast producer and host currently hosting

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Speaker 1: This Day and Esoteric Political History from Radio Topia, where

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Speaker 1: you can hear him talk to you know, Lightweight. It's

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Speaker 1: like Jill Lapoor about a Russian propagandist who traveled the

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Speaker 1: US and sauce in a way we couldn't ourselves, very fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Most recent episode, for instance, he was willing to cover

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Speaker 1: the fact that America has a white supremacist, a little undercurrent,

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Speaker 1: overcurrent type of thing. He is the story editor on

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Speaker 1: The Line, the Dan First podcast we raved about when

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Speaker 1: we had Dan on, executive producer of Death at the Wing,

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Speaker 1: the Adam McKay podcast about tragedy and basketball in the eighties.

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Speaker 1: You may have heard him hosting thirty for thirty for ESPN,

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Speaker 1: they Politics podcast. We are thrilled to be joined by

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Speaker 1: the brilliant and talented Jody Abergant what's up, Hey, And

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Speaker 1: going into this, I told myself I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: be one of those guests on that daily Vicas was

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Speaker 1: flustered by the ak It is impossible to not be

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Speaker 1: flust That is quite a thing to witness. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I think it inspires a different range of reaction. Some

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Speaker 1: My favorite is outright confusion. Yeah, when they look around

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Speaker 1: the room, it's like the it's like the best moment.

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Speaker 1: I'm like yeah. And occasionally you get that one where

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Speaker 1: it's like the notification of someone just leaving zoom, like

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, or they like in the chatter like what

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Speaker 1: the funk is this? Like sorry, that was from my manager.

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Speaker 1: It's a podcast. I told you no fun Boys. Oh look,

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Speaker 1: and I'm wearing my shirt that says Oslo City fun Boys.

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Speaker 1: You go wow. I didn't even see that. It was

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Speaker 1: Paul McCartney, by the way, it was okay, great performance.

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Speaker 1: He's got that growl. Yeah. I feel like he created

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Speaker 1: with that and the end of Hey, Jude, I feel

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Speaker 1: like he created Steven Tyler's entire career well that his

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Speaker 1: vocal stylings. Jody was good man, what's new? Well, can

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Speaker 1: you tell us about esoteric history. Well, I'm just over

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Speaker 1: here slacking, only doing three episodes a week where you

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Speaker 1: crank out every day. No, you know, it's been it's

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Speaker 1: been fun to do this show, which has been my

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Speaker 1: main thing since I left ESPN about a year ago.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I'm trying to like engage with the

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Speaker 1: world by looking at the past and not having to

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Speaker 1: get dragged into the bs of the of the day,

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Speaker 1: whereas you guys have decided to just stare directly into

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Speaker 1: the sun every hour. At this point, I could look

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Speaker 1: into the ark of the Covenant and nothing would happen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would be like, oh cool light show. Yeah, everyone,

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Speaker 1: I wonder what Twitter it is. I mean, I'm telling you.

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Speaker 1: I mean that this was like how I designed my

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Speaker 1: my last year. And I didn't even know last year

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Speaker 1: was going to be what it was. But I was like,

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Speaker 1: is gonna be crazy? I want to somehow talk about

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Speaker 1: it but not actually have to feel obliged to yap

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Speaker 1: about whatever the bs of the day will be. And

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Speaker 1: so my answer to that was, let's look to history

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Speaker 1: and pick little historical moments that like they're resonant. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: people slept a lot better than I did when I

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Speaker 1: was covering the election. And I'll tell you that much. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I bet all right. We are going to get to

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Speaker 1: know you a little bit better in a moment. First,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna tell the listeners a few of the things

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Speaker 1: we're talking about. We're gonna talk about the Democrats looking

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Speaker 1: for more reasons to play nice with the GOP. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk about what Trump is continuing to do to the GOP.

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Speaker 1: That's sort of a continuing story. Uh, New York and

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Speaker 1: l A are back to normal, baby, So we're just

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about all our plans to just go mask

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Speaker 1: free and uh, really rub it in people's faces. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk about the pandemic problems at the Girl Scouts. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk about Dartnella Fraser who took the George Floyd video

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Speaker 1: and got honored by the Pulitzer Committee. I want to

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Speaker 1: ask the overall question, and Jody, as a historian, I'm

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Speaker 1: curious for your perspective on this about whether we should

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Speaker 1: continue to cover the UFO stuff. I am going to

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Speaker 1: continue to, but I'm just interested in the question of,

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Speaker 1: like why people do or don't cover that, because I

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Speaker 1: don't feel like there's a historical corollary to it. But

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe you can correct me all of that plenty more.

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Speaker 1: But first, Jody, we like to ask Eric Guest, what

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Speaker 1: is something from your search history. It's a very good question.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I was recently searching for

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Speaker 1: my search the actual search term was just Deadwood swearing.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen the show Deadwood, but

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Speaker 1: we recently did an episode on my on My History

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Speaker 1: podcast about Andrew Jackson's funeral during which his pet parrot

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Speaker 1: had to be escorted from the room because it was

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Speaker 1: swearing uncontrollably throughout Andrew Jackson's life. I guess he had

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Speaker 1: taught this parrot to swear, and I think Andrew Jackson

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Speaker 1: was probably just a salty individual. Apparently during the funeral,

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Speaker 1: the parrot just went off and started swearing, and so

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Speaker 1: it's a it's an amazing story. One of my favorite

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Speaker 1: tippets on the historical accounts or that people didn't just

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Speaker 1: find the parrot destructive, that they found it like rude,

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Speaker 1: Like several accounts just say like the parrot was removed

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Speaker 1: for for not understanding the solemnity of the moment, like

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Speaker 1: the parrots supposed on You're not just swearing, but you're

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Speaker 1: you know, you're not taking seriously what's going on wrong

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Speaker 1: with that bird went to parrot finishing school exactly. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: there's no historical record of what the actual swears were,

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Speaker 1: and so I was trying to get a sense of

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Speaker 1: what like mid eighteen century swearing would be, and I

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Speaker 1: think Deadwood is my best analog. Yeah, that's great question.

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Speaker 1: I always kind of assumed the Deadwood was a heightened

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Speaker 1: like almost like Shakespearean like, people didn't actually talk like this,

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Speaker 1: but it's fun to just kind of hear reality described

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Speaker 1: in these ways like it. Where did you find that

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Speaker 1: Deadwood is actually an accurate portrayal of how creatively people

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Speaker 1: swore back in the day. I think it's somewhere between

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Speaker 1: the two. If I think that the creators of Deadwood

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Speaker 1: were careful to only use swear words that were of

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Speaker 1: the time, I think the amount of swearing, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's something like seventy two. There's like seventy two cocksuckers

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Speaker 1: and the the pilot or something that maybe you know,

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Speaker 1: there weren't people like that, but I think the I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, you look at you look at swear words.

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Speaker 1: There's some interesting ones from back you know, from back then.

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Speaker 1: But it's just a lot of motherfucker on cocksucker too.

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Speaker 1: That's are pretty big. Yeah, the classics, very few fun boys.

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Speaker 1: In the first episode of the what What's something you

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Speaker 1: think is overrated? I thought, yes, was it on yesterday's

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Speaker 1: show that someone said on your show yesterday that they

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Speaker 1: said going out is overrated? I think that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I kind of Actually I think that may have stolen mine.

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Speaker 1: I kind of been finding myself getting back to the

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Speaker 1: normal of saying no to stuff. And we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about that. We're gonna talk about the return to normal later.

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Speaker 1: But I find it very liberating to know about to

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Speaker 1: like do what I usually do, because have all these

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Speaker 1: wonderful things that could be doing and then say no

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Speaker 1: thing and I'm just gonna stay home. Yeah, So that

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Speaker 1: is my That is my return to normal. The wave

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Speaker 1: of relief when somebody cancels is uh, like when somebody's

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Speaker 1: like I can't do that, like one of our so

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Speaker 1: like we can't do the play date like that is

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Speaker 1: you know they say introverts like get life from being

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Speaker 1: alone and extroverts get life from being around people. I

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Speaker 1: get life from people canceling with me. The extremely specific

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Speaker 1: phenomenon I'm going undergone because I'm on the East Coast

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Speaker 1: is um plans to watch basketball games that on the

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Speaker 1: East Coast start during the playoffs. East Coast start at

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Speaker 1: like ten pm. And I'm like, but I still want

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Speaker 1: to get together with friends. We're gonna watchstball. This is great,

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Speaker 1: we can watch sports together. But you know that game

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Speaker 1: is gonna end it. I mean, I'm gonna fall sleep

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Speaker 1: halfway through that game. Uh. And then when someone cancels

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Speaker 1: on me, it's like, oh great, I can falls by

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Speaker 1: my couch and piece during this game. Yeah. Whenever I

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Speaker 1: get like sometimes there are those moments you're like, damn,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe this doesn't happen this weekend. And then you

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Speaker 1: get like the text that it isn't I go to

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Speaker 1: church that Sunday God is real. Yeah I didn't. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't believing. Man. And then you came through and you

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Speaker 1: you canceled that barbecue, Thank you, thank you. Food does

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Speaker 1: not taste good when they cook. Oh man. The NBA

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Speaker 1: playoffs though, what a I feel like those are I

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Speaker 1: feel like the plans for the NBA playoffs are being

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Speaker 1: canceled everybody's getting hurt a bummer. Yeah, what what's something

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Speaker 1: you think is underrated? I this might be sacrilege to say,

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Speaker 1: but I think, um, listening to anything other than podcasts

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Speaker 1: is underrated. And I cannot tell you how consistently it

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Speaker 1: feels like a miracle whenever I just like, remember that

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Speaker 1: I can listen to something other than a podcast music,

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Speaker 1: Oh my god? Like who would have thought? This is amazing? Uh?

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Speaker 1: You know? Or like audio books? I may, I listen

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Speaker 1: to a ton of audio books, but I just I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm working this industry, It's what I do. I love

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Speaker 1: podcast but but like there's just something magical about getting

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Speaker 1: in my ears something else to listen to, and and

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Speaker 1: it feels like fresh and new every time. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's my my My search constantly is for new music,

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Speaker 1: because that's like the one dragon I keep chasing. It's

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Speaker 1: like when you just hear like a new artist or

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Speaker 1: like a new album or that you're like, where was this?

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Speaker 1: My whole life? And that to me is like some

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Speaker 1: of the that's what the juice of life is. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I find myself really leaning into that. Although I've been

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Speaker 1: the audio book pendulum has been swinging very aggressively back

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Speaker 1: into my life against Yeah, I listen to I would

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Speaker 1: say the majority of what I listened to that's not music.

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Speaker 1: His audio books instead of podcast. Hit me. Hit me

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Speaker 1: with a good audio book that you've I'm listening. I'm

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Speaker 1: listening to um a Brief History of Seven Killings? Have

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Speaker 1: you heard that Marlon James or read that? I have

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Speaker 1: read that with my ears. Yeah, there you go, really

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Speaker 1: and really well well read, but brilliant book. I will say,

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Speaker 1: of course, under cut myself. Marlin James also hosts a

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Speaker 1: really good podcast, So there you go. You should. You

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Speaker 1: can go listen to. He does this amazing thing. I

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Speaker 1: forget what it's called, but it's it's a podcast that

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Speaker 1: he hosts with his editor, and they just have an

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Speaker 1: amazing relationship. And it's the kind of thing that, like,

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Speaker 1: I feel like a really good novelist and their longtime

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Speaker 1: editor have a type of relationship probably unique in the

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Speaker 1: in the world, right, And so they have that and

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Speaker 1: they just talk about books they love. But it's, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's really based around their chemistry. But it's like so

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Speaker 1: open and I mean, I wouldn't I don't know. I've

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Speaker 1: been people's editor and I've had editors. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I would ever have those like really honest open

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Speaker 1: conversations knowing that then at some point I'm gonna have to,

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Speaker 1: you know, send them my work and they're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to tear it apart, or we're gonna have to I

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Speaker 1: don't know. But it's a it's a really great it's

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Speaker 1: a really great podcast. So underrated is his podcast? Somehow,

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Speaker 1: somehow came back to recommending a freaking podcast after all this, Miles,

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Speaker 1: what do you read? What do you uh? What audiobook

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Speaker 1: are you read? My Life in Red and White by

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Speaker 1: the former manager of Arsenal, Arson Venger, and it's there

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Speaker 1: raided by him as well, and he just has a

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Speaker 1: fantastic perspective on life and soccer football as it were.

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Speaker 1: And I think for a lot of fans of Arsenal,

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Speaker 1: myself included, like, there are a lot of things that

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Speaker 1: happened during his tenure that he never really spoke about

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Speaker 1: with much depth. He wasn't really always like giving like

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Speaker 1: the most sort of open interviews, but in this book

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Speaker 1: he's able to really speak about how he saw player

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Speaker 1: management and like he you know, he like has a

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Speaker 1: background as an economist and that factored heavily into how

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Speaker 1: he even like managed trades and things like that, So

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Speaker 1: there are there are moments as fans are like why

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Speaker 1: why would he trade this person? Or like what's going on?

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Speaker 1: Like why what's why do we keep these people? And

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Speaker 1: then you find out like sort of from from his perspective.

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Speaker 1: So it's a nicely sort of post mortem on his

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Speaker 1: time there, and his voice is just you know, classic miles.

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Speaker 1: Do you do you know that show Desert Island Discs,

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Speaker 1: That BBC show, I've heard of it. Yeah, it's like

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Speaker 1: been running for eighty some years now, but it's basically

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Speaker 1: a guest talks about the five or eight records they

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Speaker 1: would take with them onto a desert island. But it's

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Speaker 1: sort of an excuse to talk about. But he did

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite Desert Island discs recent memory, not

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Speaker 1: of all time. It's just phenomenal, so I go check

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Speaker 1: it out. But yeah, he's he's got a great voice

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Speaker 1: and very thoughtful guy and you know, yeah, I'm not

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Speaker 1: an Arsenal fan, but I I admire him. Yeah, change

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Speaker 1: the game. And now he's now he's wrapped up in FIFA,

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Speaker 1: so he can't really even speak space scathingly of this

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Speaker 1: body that is probably actually ruining the game. But hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's that's how they get to I can't

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Speaker 1: give a anti recommendation for audio book. You should get it,

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Speaker 1: but just don't do what I did. I fell asleep

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Speaker 1: listening to Blood Meridian. Oh no, no, no, and uh.

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Speaker 1: And then I was like, why why am I so

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Speaker 1: like anxious today? And yeah, it is because Blood Meridian

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Speaker 1: was dancing. Visions of Blood Meridian were dancing through my head.

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Speaker 1: I thought it would give me like some insight into

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Speaker 1: you know, we we need to know about Texas as

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Speaker 1: as they're about to descend into an apocalyptic post electricity hellscape.

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Speaker 1: I was like, let's let's get into this Blood Meridian

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Speaker 1: I've been hearing so much about. Yeah, that's that's fucked up.

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't know who narrates it. I just did,

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Speaker 1: uh the Autobiography of Malcolm X narrated by Laurence Fishburn,

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Speaker 1: and that was fucking amazing. Narrators can do so much.

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Speaker 1: But Jody, just based on your podcast, I was curious

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Speaker 1: if there are any like esoteric moments in history or

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Speaker 1: esoteric kind of trends in history do you think are

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Speaker 1: kind of underrated in terms of understanding the current zeitgeist

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Speaker 1: and kind of modern America. I'm sure there's a ton,

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Speaker 1: but like anyone that sticks up, Yeah, it's an interesting question.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I I try and be open.

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Speaker 1: You know. Part of this is like you bring a

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Speaker 1: lens of your own, and so I'm one of these

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Speaker 1: people who are often I kind of feel like every

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Speaker 1: story is a media story, and so, you know, I

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Speaker 1: just feel like in every conversation we have, at some

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Speaker 1: point it comes down to just the like radical transformation

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Speaker 1: in media that goes back further than maybe you know,

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Speaker 1: Fox News came around in the early two thousands or

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Speaker 1: in the in the nineties, but you know, you um

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Speaker 1: and my co host Nicolehammer studies wrote it an amazing

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Speaker 1: book called Messengers on the Right and wrote a you know,

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Speaker 1: and and studies a lot how especially the GOP came

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Speaker 1: to really um radicalize around new media in the you know, sixties, seventies, eighties,

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Speaker 1: and nineties. But that's that's the kind of thing that

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Speaker 1: I always I feel like doesn't get it doesn't get

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Speaker 1: rated properly. It's just the way in which we've just

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Speaker 1: been fractured intentionally by changing media landscape. So there's just

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Speaker 1: all sorts of stories of people who were doing stuff

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Speaker 1: in the fifties and sixties and seventies where you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's the blueprint that we're just seeing right now. You know.

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Speaker 1: Facebook's just Facebook's just the latest in ration of of

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Speaker 1: you know, the way in which it took all the

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Speaker 1: breaks off. Yeah, exactly, exactly, Yeah, I mean it was interesting.

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Speaker 1: Jillapor on your most recent episode was talking about how

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Speaker 1: the current culture wars are basically the modern like leftovers

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Speaker 1: from the Cold War and not the leftovers, but no,

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Speaker 1: it's basically they kept the Cold War going by attacking

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Speaker 1: left wing politics within America. Yeah, I had I actually,

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Speaker 1: you know, when she said that, it was the first

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Speaker 1: time I've ever heard anyone really frame it that went

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Speaker 1: and a few people, i mean like you know, but

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Speaker 1: basically she said, you know, and this is the billions

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Speaker 1: that Jillapor was just to sort of like tossed off comment,

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Speaker 1: but she was like, you know, when we quote unquote

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Speaker 1: won the Cold War, all the moves were still there,

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Speaker 1: and so we just turned those inwards and we started

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Speaker 1: fighting the Cold War with each other. And I was like, oh, right, yes,

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Speaker 1: that makes sense, But yeah, it was. It was a

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Speaker 1: very good insight. Yeah, very cool. All right, Well, we're

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Speaker 1: going to take a quick break and we'll come back

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Speaker 1: and talk about culture wars and we're back, and you know,

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Speaker 1: they're the culture wars that we were just referencing before

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Speaker 1: their break. But then there's good old bipartisanship that is

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Speaker 1: the cure all to that. And we just need to

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Speaker 1: be nicer to each other. I think that's the end

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Speaker 1: of that story, right, Miles. Yeah, bipartisanship will save us.

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Speaker 1: It's not a lay mass excuse for not advancing any

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Speaker 1: real transformative legislation, not at all. That's not the case.

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Speaker 1: It's not that we have people that are completely not

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Speaker 1: up to the task of governing in the moment. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: this bipartisan ship is becoming it's just like so in

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Speaker 1: your face at this point. They've been so many times

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Speaker 1: that the Republicans have shown themselves to not have any

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Speaker 1: interest in governing in any way, like there's merely just

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Speaker 1: a bunch of racist snakes piled up in a trench

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Speaker 1: coat who are trying to grind like the progress of

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Speaker 1: society to an absolute halt, because that's it seems to

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Speaker 1: be the only way they'll be able to sort of

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Speaker 1: maintain their power or to just kind of do away

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Speaker 1: with elections as we know them. But now you know,

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Speaker 1: first it was like there was the stimulus Bill where

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Speaker 1: it's like, well, let's work with Republicans, and they did,

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Speaker 1: and they still didn't vote for it. But then that

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Speaker 1: wasn't enough to say, Huh, maybe these aren't people worth

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Speaker 1: talking to. Maybe their mindset is such that it's not

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Speaker 1: there's nothing they could bring to the table that would

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Speaker 1: elevate or we can find any kind of compromise on.

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Speaker 1: And so now we're just seeing more examples. Like recently

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Speaker 1: we talked about how Mitch McConnell said he would intervene

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Speaker 1: if Trump's picks just got way to like out of

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Speaker 1: left field for them to actually win elections. But part

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Speaker 1: of that interview with Hugh Hewitt was this other thing

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Speaker 1: that he said was essentially, if as long as I'm

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Speaker 1: alive and we control the Senate, the Republicans do, I

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Speaker 1: will never advance a Supreme Court pick that comes from

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Speaker 1: the Democrats. Never. You can count on that. And I

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Speaker 1: don't care what you say, I no. I We had

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Speaker 1: the thing where it's well, Marrick Garland. Those different because

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Speaker 1: an election year. But then when it was Amy Coney Barrett,

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Speaker 1: we got the hyper speed people mover or not even

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Speaker 1: a red carpet just to be like let's fast track

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Speaker 1: this person straight into the Supreme Court. It's all ringing,

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Speaker 1: very hollow. And now we're sort of encountering the same

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Speaker 1: thing with the Infrastructure Bill, where it's about of like, well,

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Speaker 1: let's get some bipartisanship going, but all of their concerns

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Speaker 1: are sort of rooted in like nativism or like some

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Speaker 1: oligarchical ideology that there's no room for things like you know,

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Speaker 1: climate change, like really addressing that in this bill, because

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Speaker 1: that's a way to help the economy and also change

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Speaker 1: our dire situation. So yeah, we're seeing just more and

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Speaker 1: more of like complaining about bipartisanship with no one really

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Speaker 1: offering like like actually saying the heart bits out loud

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Speaker 1: of well, we need to move forward without them. I'm

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Speaker 1: wondering when he says that he would never allow like

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Speaker 1: a democratic Supreme Court nominate to move forward, like is

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Speaker 1: he doing that too? Like do you think he wants

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Speaker 1: the Democrats to try to load the Supreme Court because

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Speaker 1: then it would be unpopular, it would like get kind

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Speaker 1: of put things more in the sort of all out

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Speaker 1: warfare that he feels most comfortable in, because that's just

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Speaker 1: such a needless like concession to make of. Just like

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Speaker 1: I think, I think you are overthinking it. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean that that's that's almost getting at like three D

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Speaker 1: chess kind of stuff. And I just think the GOP

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Speaker 1: just has goals and they say what they want to do,

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Speaker 1: and they do what they want to do, and that's it.

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Speaker 1: And so I think when you know, it's like, um,

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Speaker 1: believe him, you know, when he says it, and they'll

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Speaker 1: change the rules, you know, and and the rules will

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Speaker 1: just sort of be the rules that are most convenient

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Speaker 1: at any given moment. And it's a game that the

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Speaker 1: GOP is like perfectly willing to play and does not

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Speaker 1: feel there is no discordance in their head about it.

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Speaker 1: That's just like that, you know, no no one in

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Speaker 1: the GOP is like feeling bad about this behavior or

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Speaker 1: feeling worried about being you know, charged with hip hypocrisy

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Speaker 1: or whatever. That's it's just the game that they play.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's the thing. There's just an asymmetry

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Speaker 1: in terms of the different the games that the game

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Speaker 1: that Republicans are playing in the game that Democrats are playing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think Republicans can tell like the writings on the

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Speaker 1: wall in terms of the popularity of their party, so

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Speaker 1: it behooves them to go all out, just like, let's

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Speaker 1: do everything. Let's try and jerrymander the funk out of

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Speaker 1: these districts, Let's suppress the vote as hard as possible,

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Speaker 1: Let's do whatever we can to eke out these majorities,

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Speaker 1: because it doesn't seem like the party's gonna grow based

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Speaker 1: on them just screaming like socialism is gonna antifa your

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Speaker 1: guns and that that's for a very select group of people.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I think because of that, the Democrats are

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Speaker 1: looking at it with this calculus of like, well, then

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Speaker 1: democracy will like I mean big d Democrats have been

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Speaker 1: sort of trying to defend like, well, we we have

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Speaker 1: to try and make it work, because if then we're

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Speaker 1: not participating democratically speaking, then then nothing works and then

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Speaker 1: we're in this terrible situation. But it completely sort of

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Speaker 1: ignores the fact that one side of this is a

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Speaker 1: group that has a complete, like an antithetical agenda to democracy.

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Speaker 1: So how do you then what what are you preserving

424
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: exactly like with this sort of you know, Hine the

425
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: Skuyt of bipartisanship. Yeah, And I think that that gets

426
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 1: to I mean, so much of our culture wars and

427
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: political wars an our just I think are people both

428
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,640
Speaker 1: willfully and just sort of maybe subconsciously like defining key

429
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 1: terms in radically different ways. And so I think that

430
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: there's just a definitional gap with the word like bipartisanship.

431
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: And there's this sort of old school notion of bipartisanship

432
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 1: being within the Senate. You reach across the aisle and

433
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: you talk to the fifty people or whatever it is

434
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 1: on the other side of the aisle. There's another definition

435
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 1: of bipartisanship, which is doing stuff that is broadly popular.

436
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: And I feel like Democrats for a bit, we're starting

437
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: to make that argument. I think now there's still this

438
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 1: lingering fealty towards bipartisanship is within Washington as opposed to

439
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: things like infrastructure, things like healthcare, you know, are broadly

440
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: popular and if you can rent, you know, if you

441
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 1: can redefine by partisanship to that, we're going to do

442
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: populist things that have wide appeal. Then maybe you start

443
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 1: to get you start to get somewhere. Though, I think

444
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 1: miles to your point. I think the the GOP is,

445
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: you know, with clear eyes, starting to move away from

446
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,199
Speaker 1: that notion of our jobs to do stuff that has

447
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: wide appeal. Yeah. I mean you mentioned the word populist,

448
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: and like that's a word that people used to describe Trump,

449
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: and it's like kind of the opposite of that, Like

450
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: he what's a populous appeal, But it's an incredibly narrow path,

451
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: you know, electorally, and his populist appeal is to a

452
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: small portion of the of the population. It's just that

453
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 1: it's the trappings of popul We associated racism with populism

454
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: early on, and I feel like that's racisms are pretty

455
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: popular for a while though to be yeah, yeah, but

456
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: I feel like it's becoming less. Yeah. Boy, can I

457
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 1: can I say one thing? Just as you were talking

458
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: about your definition of by partisanship, Also, it made me

459
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 1: think of my daughter who's just turned four, and we're

460
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 1: trying to teach her about sharing, and I think we're

461
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: doing a pretty good job, but she has now I

462
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 1: feel like overlearned what sharing means, which is, you know,

463
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 1: I have something I'm like eating a sandwich and she

464
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: tries to grab it for me, and she's like, we're sharing,

465
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: you know. I feel like that's that's sort of Republicans

466
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: thinking about bi partisanship, partisanship, Sure, let me have that.

467
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: We're doing it my way, right. That's bi partisanship. By

468
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: partianship is you don't say no to me's the deal here?

469
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: And that that's how Democrats very much see and that's

470
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: why I like, it's really frustrating when people now you

471
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: have like Ed Markey and and Jeff Merkley saying like

472
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: we're not going to vote for some watered down infrastructure bill,

473
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 1: like we give a ship about the climate. So if

474
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 1: those things aren't actually articulating the legislation, we're not going

475
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: to support it. And that puts them in a really

476
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: tough spot because how what are you gonna get twelve

477
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: twelve Republicans on board? I don't know, And I think

478
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: that's what a lot. There's a lot of hesitation even

479
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: within the House, like they're saying, like, what is a

480
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: bill that it's gonna actually get support in both chambers

481
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: because the water down version you're gonna have defectors on

482
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: like the progressive end who don't want to support it,

483
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: So then what's the math there? And that's led to,

484
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: you know, one of Biden's advisors going to the Hill

485
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 1: and basically saying like, look, there's two ways we do this.

486
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: One is in seven to ten days you figure out

487
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 1: how to get Republicans on board, and if not, we'll

488
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: just try and just smash this through under reconciliation. So

489
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: we'll see where that ends up. But uh, yeah, the

490
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: first time I've heard them be like, we'll do it

491
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: without them. But will they? Can they? But do you

492
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: think there's any any benefit to putting something out there

493
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: that at least feels like it could get sixty votes

494
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: just to get some Republicans on the record voting against

495
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: something that is just like super simple, super straightforward, has

496
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: all that bipartisanship bipartisan No, I mean it depends. I

497
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: don't know. It's really hard to know like who that

498
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: appeals to because I'm clearly like in my own echo

499
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: chamber and bubble and how I look at the politics

500
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: on the Hill, and I have a calculus I used

501
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 1: to determ and if I want to support a party

502
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: or not, And I don't know if some people are

503
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: just think of it seems like the mainstream or a

504
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 1: lot of the mainstream Republican views just say no to

505
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: everything Democrats do, like we're so piste off about the

506
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: election that all we can do is just burn the

507
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: house down. And so I'm not sure if that as

508
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: much as like there have been these like moves to

509
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: try and get Republicans on the record or try and

510
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 1: coax them out, it doesn't seem like it's happening because

511
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: Trump still so much he has somen't we care, he

512
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: has just so much influence still, So yeah, I don't know.

513
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: It's a hard it's a hard one to predict. There

514
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: was a article in the Washington Post about like but

515
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: two of the leaders who are basically being black balled

516
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 1: by the Republican Party because they disagreed with Donald Trump

517
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: on like one individual thing. Republican Tom Rice of South Carolina,

518
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: i think, voted to impeach Trump after the insurrection, and

519
00:27:55,359 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: another kind of Chip Roy in Texas voted to certify

520
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: the election results. And those two like one off decisions.

521
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: They've agreed with Trump on literally everything else. Those two

522
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: one off decisions, they're like, yeah, that I signed my

523
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: political death warrant by disagreeing with him once and now

524
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: I'm being primaried from the right. So that's the threat.

525
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: I mean, because I'm I'm I'm very curious about this.

526
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: What is the actual You hear it said all the

527
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: time the GOP is scared of Trump. And I think

528
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: for a while in two thousands, sixteen and seventeen and eight,

529
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: even into eighteen, you know, there was a real threat

530
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: of like Trump, you know that you could get primaried.

531
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: Trump can swing elections. I don't think that threat really

532
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: is there anymore. I think Trump is a political liability.

533
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: So what is the threat? That's what I'm trying to

534
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: figure out when you say he's a political liability, Like,

535
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: do you do you think that he can't win like

536
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: another election? At this point? I think it would be

537
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: very hard for him to win another election. I think

538
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: he stuck his nose in. I mean, it was very

539
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: hard for him to win in two thousand sixty. People

540
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: people weirdly like talk about underrated like people weirdly forget

541
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: that was like the most Rube Goldbergian way to win

542
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: an election ever, um and people have forgotten that. Not

543
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: to diminish you know, the consequences of it. But um

544
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: but I mean, you know, he stuck his nose in

545
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: Georgia and um, yeah and probably lost that election. And

546
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: I just I think that threat but maybe I'm wrong.

547
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: I mean, you know again, I'm curious what you think

548
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: is the actual threat that to uh, that a Republican

549
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: elected official feels if they crossed Trump, I'm scared of

550
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: X happening. I think it's like there's like anecdotal stuff

551
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: like Kinsinger has talked about how much his life has

552
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: become a hell, like with constituents like bombarding him with

553
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: calls or harassing his family or his family harassing him.

554
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: Because I think in general, they're not really they're not

555
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: operating on principle. They're operating on what's popular or what

556
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: gets the most cheers for them at a rally. So

557
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: like if the Trump thing helps them, then I feel

558
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: like that's what they were gravitating towards and just any

559
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: bit of turbulence that occurs from their base because there

560
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: maybe be like you know, vocal maga people in their

561
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: in their constituency that hearing those words is enough for

562
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: them to think that Trump very much has his power.

563
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: Like yeah, I'm I'm also a curious thing because there

564
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: are a few Republicans have said, no, I don't give

565
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: a ship, like, um, this is what I believe come

566
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: at me, And increasingly they have said, hey, I've had

567
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: to spend more money on security. And I don't know

568
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: if those sort of anecdotes sort of are the sort

569
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: of the backdrop for a lot of these people's perception

570
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: that this guy can make things really hard for you.

571
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: But when you but I totally agree when you look

572
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: at the people that he wants to run, like, how

573
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: could you go from people who are like on paper

574
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: like objectively not to say that I agree with their politics,

575
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: but from a purely plus one winning strategy point of view,

576
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: that you have viable candidates, which just because they're not maga,

577
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: you're gonna flip them for someone who is completely not

578
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: competitive in the same district. That's where I think, like,

579
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: is it happened in two Like there he put out

580
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: a bunch of weird people and they didn't they didn't

581
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: they weren't up to Scruss. So I don't know if

582
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: it's going to take another cycle like that, and maybe

583
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: they go, man, this guy doesn't what he's doing, Like

584
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: we're gonna lose the party. But I don't. I don't

585
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: know how many of those Republicans are there who are

586
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: thinking we're gonna lose the party, because there there's these

587
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: new batches like, hey, we're here for nativism and white

588
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: nationalism and you know, making hot giving hot takes on

589
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: the Holocaust. I think I'm just like blown away by

590
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: the fact that one of the two major parties in

591
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: the US is essentially openly authoritarian. Like the thing that

592
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: they disagree with is an open and fair election, and

593
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: like that's what gets you blacklisted and within that party now, right, Well,

594
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: that's and part of that is what comes with when

595
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: you're you know, your singular goal is retention of power,

596
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: and then you're clear eyed about the fact that you

597
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: can't really do that through normal meetings. You know, that's

598
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: how you end up being an authoritarian. But you know,

599
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: I also think that one underdiscussed current in this sort

600
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: of like engine of the modern GOP is like anti

601
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: anti Trumpism. Right. I don't think it's necessarily pro Trumpism,

602
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: but I do think this like culture war owned the Libs.

603
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: I feel like since the Muller Report, almost when the

604
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: GOP convinced itself that like, oh, the Muller report was

605
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: there was it was a sham. There was no Russian collusion.

606
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: Liberals have gone around the bend, you know, YadA, YadA, YadA.

607
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: I think that anti anti trumpism for like the Lindsay

608
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: Grahams of the world. I actually think that's what's making

609
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: them tick. It's this sort of like anti liberal thing

610
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: more than it is core fealty to Trump, if that,

611
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: if that distinction makes any sense, Yeah, it's just I

612
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: guess that's what it's hard when all of their rhetoric

613
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: is tied up in defending him or defending his actions still,

614
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: and then that's when you're like, well, then what is

615
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: it exactly like that? What is this other dimension or

616
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: this influential you know, lever of power or this for

617
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: worse that we're not able to see with our eyes

618
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 1: or ears. And that's also affecting them because yea, at

619
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: the same time, you Lindsay Graham, like he would have

620
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: won if the Wuhan lab leak thing was properly invest you, like,

621
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: what you're still talking about this what do you owe him?

622
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: Like what's going on? But I feel like at some level,

623
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, maybe Liz Cheney and the old

624
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: school Darth Vader wing of the GOP would be able

625
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,959
Speaker 1: to do something. But seeing that that didn't have much sway,

626
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: I think shows that there's definitely like a different endgame

627
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: for these people. Yeah, and just another gapeanos. Dana roar Backer,

628
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: who we've used to talk about, is no longer in power,

629
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: super arch conservative Trump supporting congressman. It was recently pictures

630
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: revealed that he breached the police bearer kids at the

631
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: insurrection and was like, they're kind of breaking the law.

632
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: So that's one direction that you know, Trump can take

633
00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: your career is your Yeah, well, I mean Dana Rohbach gurd,

634
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: I mean he went he fought with the Mujahideen against

635
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: the Russians in the eighties, Like he went to Afghanistan,

636
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: Like he's he's always been like hey, where's the party yet?

637
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: Type of energy always where you're like, oh wow. There's

638
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: like a really interesting photo of him like with like

639
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: a collistion to CoV and stuff in Afghanistan in the eighties.

640
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: Very interesting image. He was just born to be in it, right,

641
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: It's just born to be in it exactly. Oh man,

642
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: what an inauspicious beginning to to that campaign. Man, that's

643
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,919
Speaker 1: just born to born to be in it. Now watch

644
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: this kick flip. Let's talk about New York in l

645
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: A getting back to normal. And yeah, kind of, I

646
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 1: just I just brought this up more because like it's

647
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: more of just a feeling I have around all of

648
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: there's like this fanfare about reopening and like, you know,

649
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: you have Cuomo being like, you know, we can go

650
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: back to life as we know it, and other people

651
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 1: saying like you don't have to live with fear of

652
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 1: the virus anymore, and like we can, we can go back,

653
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: and these like all the verbiage being used, it just

654
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: feels like it's not acknowledging like how traumatic this entire

655
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: ordeal has been. And there's like a there's like a

656
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 1: dimension of acknowledging the humanity of the pandemic that I

657
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: feel like really missing from all of like the headlines

658
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: and you know, news stories. It's like, hey, man, like

659
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: the l A galaxy is going to full capacity, and like,

660
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: isn't that great? Because at the end of the day,

661
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: I feel like there's so many people who have gone

662
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: through so much this last year and have had to

663
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: compartmentalize and then on top of it like the way

664
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: people even looking at their work and like how we

665
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: you know, we saw all of the like the grim

666
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: realities of like the ills of our society and who

667
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: reaps the benefits and whose labors being exploited, while we

668
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: just like give fancy labels like essential without the real

669
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: like material acknowledgement that what they do is essential to

670
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: the country running. And and yeah, there's just there's just

671
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: something that like rings this hollow that I'm just I

672
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm I'm I'm more curiously how everyone else

673
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: is sort of seeing that because I feel like all

674
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: of the messing just like, oh man, that's over a

675
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 1: few Okay, great, it's all come out. It's over, guys.

676
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: And nothing happened back then. That was the last year.

677
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: None of that happened. Like it's I don't know, And

678
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: not to say that we have to dwell on it,

679
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: but on some level, I feel like part of the

680
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: reopening should have a dimension of like wellness to it

681
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: or acknowledging how you like, acknowledging that it was a

682
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 1: fucked up year for many people unless you were at

683
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: a certain socio economic level. Yeah, And I think if

684
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: we don't acknowledge that out loud, it will be acknowledged

685
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 1: in some other like weird cultural I don't know, like

686
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: that we saw that. Whether whether we go forward and

687
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: like spend a lot of time talking about it and

688
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: processing it, My my guests would be Americans not not

689
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: going to do that, Like mains from American culture not

690
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: the best at processing trauma. And also we talked before

691
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: about how like when you look back at the historical record,

692
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: the nineteen eleven pandemic was basically just like it didn't

693
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: really leave a mark, Like people didn't write that many

694
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: novels about it. But then you know they're people have

695
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: speculated that it led to all sorts of like kind

696
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:23,720
Speaker 1: of under the under the surface cultural movements and stuff.

697
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: It'll be interesting, but I do agree like there's a

698
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: healthy way to do it, and we probably won't be

699
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: doing that. Yeah, I mean, Myles, I'm glad you said

700
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 1: that because I I think it was you know, maybe

701
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: a month or so ago, there was just a lot

702
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 1: of consternation about if you're vaccinated, to take off your mask,

703
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: and just a lot of pressure and a lot of

704
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: people sort of taking these weird stands about like wearing

705
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: a mask and and and giving people a hard time

706
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: for still wearing a mask, you know. And I had

707
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,959
Speaker 1: the same reaction, which is, like, this has been a really,

708
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: really tough year. If it's gonna take someone a couple

709
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: of weeks to get to the place where they're comfortable

710
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: taking off their mask, or if they're gonna be like

711
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: unsure of what to do, like let them be unsure,

712
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: let them be uncomfortable, like a couple of weeks, Like

713
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: this is gonna work itself out, And and like why

714
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: is that the hill that people feel this desire to

715
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: die on? This like this has to happen now, and

716
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: we have to draw these bright lines now, we have

717
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 1: to flip this binary switch. Like, you know, I'm incredibly

718
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: excited to get back to the normal things. I'm incredibly

719
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: excited to rip off my mask. Like you know, I

720
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: don't like wearing a freaking mask. But like this idea

721
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: that I would, um give someone a hard time if

722
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: it's going to take them a few weeks or they're

723
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: gonna have to you know, slowly slowly ease their way

724
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: back into things. Um, It's it's bizarre and sort of like, yeah,

725
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: there's no humanity to it, And I think you're right, right, yeah,

726
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: it's and even with the mask thing, it's sort of like,

727
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 1: you know, what have It completely ignores that so many

728
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: people know someone, whether directly or indirectly, probably someone that's

729
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: passed away because of COVID, and or you know, has

730
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: someone that is experiencing long COVID, or you know, I

731
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 1: know people who are still on oxygen like from time

732
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: to time because it's still not they haven't quite fully recovered.

733
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: All of those things play into people's minds because that's

734
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: what the reality has been the last year. It's not

735
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: like got it. My whole last year has been me

736
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: inside just playing Fortnite over and over and over again,

737
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 1: and I just wish I could go outside and just

738
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: like start drinking at Applebee's again. Like it's been fraught

739
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: for many people who's been like I don't know what

740
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do with my kids. I don't do them

741
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: at my house or my job. I don't know if

742
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: my parents are gonna survive. And it's also freaky for

743
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: me to try and see them because on top of that,

744
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: I have the weight of potentially infecting them because I

745
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: don't you know, Like, all of these things have been

746
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: thoughts that have been racing through well, I think a

747
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: lot of people's minds, and especially for people who have

748
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: had to go to work throughout it, they've felt that

749
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 1: they've been forced to work in really unsafe conditions. Their

750
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: their safety has been completely disregarded, and no one there's

751
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: no consideration for that. And then there's no acknowledgment that

752
00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: they were putting themselves at risk this whole time too,

753
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: And then it's sort of like, yeah, man, everything's great, huh,

754
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: and there's just something that I just I I don't

755
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: know why, Like you'd hope that on some level they're

756
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: like mental health professionals that were also being like people

757
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: are going to have to sort of deal with what's happening,

758
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: because I do see this left over trauma that's occurred

759
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: from the pandemic, Like, yeah, metastasizing into something else later

760
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: down the road because people didn't deal with all this

761
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: other energy they had that was just papered over in

762
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: the name of like getting back to normal. Right, not

763
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: down the road, I mean metastasized in real time. Last year, right,

764
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 1: we saw, you know, we saw the results of of

765
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: what what this did to us as people were cooped

766
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: up and the connect with each other yeah, I mean

767
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: the mask became a symbol of like anti individualism. I

768
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: feel like for a lot of people in the country,

769
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: and like they reacted absolutely violently. I do wonder if

770
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: we'll see a because I mean, there there's no avoiding

771
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 1: the fact that we just saw this social safety net

772
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: just completely collapse and made spider webs and it was

773
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: made clear you know who who is prioritized in America.

774
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: And I you've seen like small ways that things have

775
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 1: moved a little bit leftward, like just allowing people to

776
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: make more money and kind of service jobs. But it's

777
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 1: like you really people have had to had their hand forced,

778
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: like Chipotle had to have their hand force to do

779
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: that after the pandemic. But I am wondering if like yeah,

780
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if that's going to be a broader thing, right,

781
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: Like that's everybody now has this new normal where they're like, oh, yeah,

782
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 1: this is this is bullshit, Like it's not. There are

783
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: certain circumstances where we can't pull ourselves out of the

784
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: quicksand by our own bootstraps, and you know, we need

785
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: to we need something there to to grab onto, and

786
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: it wasn't there, so like well, I mean I'll tell

787
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: you something I think about a lot, which is in

788
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: the last spring and then even into this spring, but

789
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: certainly the first round of stimulus, you know, I was

790
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: really surprised, to be honest, that like in the conversation

791
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: around the first round of stimulus and then Biden's first

792
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: round of Stimus as well, it was really kind of

793
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: taken as a given that there is a robust role

794
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: for government in helping people in times of crisis, and

795
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: that is not something this country has kind of like

796
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: taken for granted, you know. And and so I mean,

797
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: I think there is some sort of level of progress there,

798
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: I mean. And then there was another example that is

799
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: there was there was some Republican congress person or senator

800
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: someone just fairly recently who tried to trot out that

801
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: Reagan line of the scariest words in the English language

802
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: are I'm from the government, that I'm here to help,

803
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: and they basically got laughed out of the room, I think,

804
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: kind of by both right and left. And I think

805
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: it was an indication like that kind of language doesn't

806
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: play anymore, like people are starting to really take for granted,

807
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: I think across the spectrum or whatever you wanna call

808
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: whatever we're living in right now that there is a

809
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 1: role for government, and so I do think like maybe

810
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: that's one of the lasting things. And who knows how

811
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: long lasting is, but you know, at least right now

812
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 1: it feels like it's out there. I'm sure we'll see

813
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 1: another squeeze and you know, action from people. As you know,

814
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 1: certain Republican governors begin turned saying no to federal stimulus

815
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: money for unemployment, and see what comes out of that

816
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,720
Speaker 1: when they say, all right, well let's say people completely

817
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: off of this uh and force them into jobs that

818
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: don't even meet the you know what most economists say

819
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: is the minimum to live in a state, um, and

820
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: if you have a child, like, it's not even close.

821
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm yeah, I think. But that's the other

822
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 1: thing is like I think there are other people to

823
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,959
Speaker 1: have found boundaries to or something, or at least they've

824
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: become more resolute and trying to say what they want,

825
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: are willing to do or not willing to do, or

826
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 1: at least express that more openly, because I think before

827
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: this everything was just sort of like, oh God, this whatever,

828
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 1: this given job sucks, There's nothing I can do about it,

829
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: that's it. And now I think because unfortunately people have

830
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: been taken to the brink that they're starting to be

831
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: more vocal and say, you know what, I'm watched me

832
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: say no to this job. That's how serious I am

833
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: about not taking sub subsistence wages to keep my life going. Right. Yeah, Yeah,

834
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: I feel like it's sort of a hacky metaphor, but

835
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: I do feel like we're living in a bit of

836
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: a era where people are seeing the matrix a little

837
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: bit and are seeing the sort of way in which

838
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: government um and historical forces aligned to affect their day

839
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,720
Speaker 1: to day lives and are asking sort of fundamental questions

840
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 1: about that. Which that's why I'm always talking about how

841
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 1: we try to redpill people exactly, metaphor that we think

842
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 1: works really well for the dailies. Fist and uh, We're

843
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: hoping people get it, and you keep breaking trying to

844
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: reclaim exactly. All right, let's take a quick break. We'll

845
00:44:51,920 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: be right back, and we're back. And Darnella Fraser, who

846
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 1: was the seventeen year old who took the video of

847
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: Derek Chovin murdering George Floyd, has been honored by the

848
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 1: Pulitzer Board. I guess it's not a full pulitzer. I

849
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: don't know, like all the different levels of pulitzer. It's

850
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: a citation, which sounds bad. This sounds bad. You don't

851
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 1: want to be you don't want a citation. But this

852
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: is it's an honor. She she's one of the only

853
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 1: kind of private citizens to get it. I guess the

854
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: famous photograph of the fireman holding like pulling a baby

855
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: out of the rubble in the Oklahoma City bombing was

856
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: also taken by just like somebody who worked nearby, and

857
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: that person got a similar like pulitzer honor. But this

858
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 1: seems like it's on a whole new level like that.

859
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, I can't. I can't think of anything

860
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 1: more deserving of a pulitzer. Like she was just a

861
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: kid going to get snacks at a corner store and

862
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: just I mean head to stand in the face of

863
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: like them holding onto their like pepper spray and just

864
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 1: like doing all sorts of threatening ship like to her,

865
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 1: and just like kept taking the video and like really

866
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: changed the world. It's like a pulitzer even enough, you know,

867
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: I feel like like in terms of like I get it,

868
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: because it's more you know, for like you know, journalism

869
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 1: and literature and music and things like that, and like

870
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: this is something it almost transcends all of those things

871
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: because it, Yeah, I unfortunately it took this like unadulterated,

872
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:53,399
Speaker 1: uncut video of this happening to inspire like a lot

873
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,800
Speaker 1: of other people who were probably were treating the like

874
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: this the white supremacist ills that week's into this country

875
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:02,919
Speaker 1: just like I don't know, like not real until that moment,

876
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 1: and it just seems like it's so far beyond I

877
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: mean because considering like the amount of sort of danger

878
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: she was in for a certain period of time, like

879
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: right after that, and the trauma that she had to

880
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: go through, and just other people who were there at

881
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 1: the time trying to plead with the police. Yet it's yeah,

882
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: I mean, the idea that Choven will, while ignoring the

883
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 1: cries of bystanders and murdering someone just in cold blood,

884
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: like in front of everybody, has asked him, was that

885
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,399
Speaker 1: pulled out his mace? Like that is like who who

886
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 1: is that for? That's probably for the people who are

887
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: just standing there, And she just didn't move, she didn't

888
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: let it make her run away. Yeah, I mean I

889
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: think the yeah, I think the citation here is the

890
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: sort of surface level is this this photo had an

891
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: enormous obviously an enormous impact. But I do think what

892
00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: you what you two are getting at this that what

893
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 1: she did, um was it was was journalism, right, It's

894
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: a truth telling. It's standing there and bearing witness. And

895
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 1: so I think that that's the sort of real level

896
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: of of commendation here, citation here. And I also just

897
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:15,399
Speaker 1: think this is a reminder, another reminder in this moment

898
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 1: that like, if her video did not exist, Chauvin would

899
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: have gotten off you We've all seen how the original

900
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 1: police report was written up. You know, we're living Yeah,

901
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: we're living in a sort of era that is defined

902
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: by whether if you know, police behavior is captured on

903
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: on a cell phone video, then that that's you know,

904
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 1: that changes everything, and that's sort of one of the

905
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,320
Speaker 1: defining features of this era. And so I think of this,

906
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 1: this moment, this award, the citation to her um as

907
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: a reminder of just kind of like the power of

908
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: starting with you know, starting at this point almost ten

909
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 1: years ago, just the see change of everyone having a

910
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 1: camera in their pocket and what that's done. And still

911
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: it's like so rare for me to pull out my

912
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 1: camera like that. It just really puts unto perspective, like

913
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: how common these sorts of things must be, Like the

914
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: number of times that something like what Derek Chovin did

915
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: or worse happens that it doesn't get captured on camera

916
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 1: like that. I also think about that with the Walter

917
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: Scott murder where the cop shot him as he was

918
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,280
Speaker 1: running away in the back and then just like walked

919
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: up and planet evidence like that is it's wild that

920
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: somebody happened to be just like taking a video of

921
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: that like from you know, twenty feet away. It's truly

922
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: unbelievable and you know, an amazing stroke of luck that

923
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: just goes to prove, like God, how frequently is this

924
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: happening when like the one in a million chance that

925
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 1: somebody has their camera out at that moment isn't in effect, Yeah,

926
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: it kind of bums you out there, two, because you

927
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: have mounds of bodycam footage that are just as incriminating

928
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: in a lot of cases too. But somehow, and like

929
00:49:56,280 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: these other cases, the needle doesn't move, And yeah, think

930
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 1: for for all that's happened just shows just the insurmountable.

931
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just almost feel it's just like

932
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,240
Speaker 1: this mountain, we're still at the foot of of trying

933
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 1: to ascend because there's still so many obstacles to actually

934
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 1: bring people who are abusing their power to justice. Yeah,

935
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: it's worth pointing out that, Darnella Fraser, I believe this award.

936
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 1: It's a special citation, but it comes with the same

937
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: prize money as all the other awards. It's not a

938
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:29,760
Speaker 1: ton of money, but you know, it is worth pointing

939
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: that out. Okay, real quickly. I I do kind of

940
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 1: just want to get because I've been getting questions and

941
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: like comments from people saying like, come on, we have

942
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: enough problems here on Earth. Why are you covering this

943
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 1: like unidentified unidentified aerial phenomenon or you know, submerged phenomenon nonsense?

944
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: And I just I kind of want to just get

945
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: have that conversation on the show, like about like Miles,

946
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 1: what your thoughts are on, like whether it's worth continuing

947
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: to like kind of keep an eye on. And also

948
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 1: Jody as somebody who hosts a history podcast, like what

949
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 1: how do you view like the importance or like just

950
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: even the conversation around the video evidence that's coming out.

951
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 1: I think it's compelling. Yeah, I mean I the no

952
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: one's saying this footage is fake, and so that based

953
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 1: because of that, my curiosity is I'm immediately interested to say, well,

954
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: what is going on? Yea, what is this? Why are

955
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: things moving like that? Is it a technology we don't know?

956
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 1: Is it some other thing? But at the very least

957
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 1: I'm interested because it goes against bucking everything I thought

958
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 1: that was realistic or possible or plausible up until this point,

959
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: or like you know, it's always treated as things like

960
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: get over it is some other thing that happened, but

961
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 1: that that I don't know. When you see this all

962
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 1: all this footage and then you on top of the

963
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 1: Pentagon's like help us, I'm definitely interested. I don't know

964
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: if it's don't think it's like frivolous to talk about

965
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: it necessarily, but I think it's I don't know, it's

966
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 1: it seems pretty significant unless what at the end of

967
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 1: the day it comes out and they're like, oh, they're

968
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: all fake like then then then yeah, then it was

969
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: what were we talking about this whole time? But well,

970
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 1: I don't I think even in that scenario, it's a

971
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 1: worthwhile conversation. I mean I think that I think the

972
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: disconnect and maybe Jack, you're you're hearing a little bit

973
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 1: of this is just that for some reason, there's this

974
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: expectation that we haven't talked about UFOs for so long

975
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: and a conversation about him have been sort of relegated

976
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 1: off into the corner, and now we're finally tearing the

977
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 1: top off, and that means that we should, uh, there

978
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 1: should be a big, definitive answer at the end of that,

979
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: and like we're not gonna we're not going to get

980
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,760
Speaker 1: that anytime soon. It doesn't mean it's not a worthwhile

981
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: conversation or it's not interesting, especially if you have to

982
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,479
Speaker 1: host a daily podcast. You gotta fill forty five minutes

983
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 1: every day, and what else are you gonna do? You know,

984
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 1: we can, we can fill it with all kinds of

985
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 1: nonse more, we're filling it with conversations about whether we

986
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: should have conversations see the Metal, Yes, but no, I mean,

987
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 1: you know, I I have found it endlessly fascinating and

988
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: also incredibly confounding. Like I don't feel anymore like I

989
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: know more with the capital kay, no more any you

990
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: know now than I did. But I found it interesting

991
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: to think about feel like everything else, we sort of

992
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: have a historical corollary for or you can at least

993
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 1: like think about it in the context of history, and

994
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:34,879
Speaker 1: this one is just we we don't. It's well, yeah,

995
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 1: you mentioned very briefly at the beginning of this project

996
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: I did called Death at the Wing. It is with

997
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 1: this guy Adam McKay, who's one of my favorite sort

998
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:43,800
Speaker 1: of directors, and he's just a brilliant guy. And he

999
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: has this production company. You know, this is sort of securitis,

1000
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: but he has a production company called hyper Object Industries.

1001
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: A hyper object is a thing. I'm probably gonna butcher this.

1002
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: You'll have some sci fi geeks get in touch with

1003
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 1: you about the actual definition, but you know, it just

1004
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: basically a like thing that doesn't have context. It just

1005
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 1: arrives and you do not know how to place it.

1006
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 1: And you know, I think climate change is one of

1007
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 1: those things that's just like there is not a historical

1008
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,720
Speaker 1: precedent for coming around to understanding. I would argue, actually,

1009
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 1: like the level of wealth and equality we're seeing in

1010
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: this country is sort of a hyper object, Like we

1011
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 1: just don't have the language to process what it means

1012
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: to be a multi multi, multi billionaire and what that

1013
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: does to us. I think the UFO thing is sort

1014
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: of the same, Like there is not a continuum of

1015
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: conversations that that prep us for this, right, It's just like, yeah,

1016
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: we're beyond the we're beyond the looking glass here, Jack,

1017
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: You're a modern day Copernicus, man, That's how I like, Yeah,

1018
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. You're challenging, like, oh wow,

1019
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 1: Geocentris City, Okay, I'm a modern day Copernicus. Groupie. It

1020
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 1: was like, yo, Copernicus, we love you, We love you Copernicus.

1021
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 1: So one thing that I think is tied up in

1022
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 1: like my interest in this is the the idea that

1023
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: if this is real, there is like some hopefulness that

1024
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 1: that like there is this scientific continuum that keeps going

1025
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: beyond like what we currently know, and whoever is at

1026
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 1: that level beyond what we currently know has decided not

1027
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 1: to kill us like that. There's something like almost like uh,

1028
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: religiously like optimistic about that idea to me, that like

1029
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: is basically contained in any version of this that isn't

1030
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:29,879
Speaker 1: just uh that this was somebody uh doing fake photography

1031
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: and somehow fulling a bunch of fighter jet pilots. Yeah,

1032
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 1: And I think I think some people pushed back though

1033
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: too because a lot of this ship that's discussed about,

1034
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:44,240
Speaker 1: you know, aliens or UFOs is like art bell type

1035
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,399
Speaker 1: ship where it's a little bit like you know, coming

1036
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 1: out in a like left field and you're like, I

1037
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,479
Speaker 1: don't know, is this like for real? This guy said

1038
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: he was on a Navy ship in the seventies and

1039
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 1: saws and like, okay, let's everything felt like it was

1040
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 1: just sort of these like this oral tradition of like

1041
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 1: you know, people saying basaw stuff. But I think that's

1042
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 1: what makes this really interesting is that we're going to

1043
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 1: like what the government is saying, like, no, this is

1044
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,800
Speaker 1: this is the real footage, this is what has happened.

1045
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: It's documented, and we're still saying we're not sure what

1046
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 1: we're looking at. And I feel like anything that gives

1047
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: a little bit more sort of fuel to it, I

1048
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 1: think there would be art bells or you know, any uh,

1049
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:28,800
Speaker 1: if there was any like real event that was treated

1050
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 1: as the way that UFO and alien you know, culture

1051
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: is treated like I feel like anyway, if you were

1052
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: just like baseball doesn't exist, and the military's official position

1053
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, there's no such thing as baseball, and

1054
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: the only people like people who had been to games

1055
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 1: were the only sources of information, and like you couldn't.

1056
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 1: Like I I just feel like any observable thing that

1057
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,399
Speaker 1: was treated by the military, like so many of these

1058
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: pilots are now being like, yeah, we see it every day,

1059
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 1: and we just we're scared of like being called crazy,

1060
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: so we didn't do it. Like that's such a profound

1061
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:10,400
Speaker 1: stigma to like try and then create, like build a

1062
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: body of information around Like so yeah, I did not

1063
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 1: get that at all, um, but I really admired your

1064
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 1: You're saying it's bigger than BASEB. Alright, finally, let's let's

1065
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 1: talk about what's going on with the Girl Scouts real quick.

1066
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 1: Some some pandemic related problems. Yeah, apparently many look, many industries,

1067
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 1: governments had their deficiencies exposed during this pandemic, and I

1068
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: guess the Girl Scouts aren't safe either, Like the story. First,

1069
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: I just saw that they had They did terribly with

1070
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 1: Girl Scout cookie sales last year. They have fifteen million

1071
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: unsold boxes, which is like never happened before. They're like

1072
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:00,439
Speaker 1: everyone's scratching their heads of a lot of the people

1073
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: at these like at the local council level up to

1074
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 1: the like the national level have different I guess, competing

1075
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 1: ideas around this. At the highest level, they say, look,

1076
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: it was a global pandemic that was unprecedented, Like what

1077
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 1: do you that's why we have that's why we have

1078
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 1: this surplus of cookies. Like I don't know how to

1079
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 1: explain it, Like the traditional ways of selling weren't available

1080
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 1: because store like where they have the folding table out

1081
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 1: in front of the girl. It's all just informal like

1082
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,439
Speaker 1: foot traffic, like yeah, and it's all like networks, there's

1083
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: typically just whatever. You just exploit your own social network

1084
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: to just being like yeah, let me just crank out

1085
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 1: a bunch of boxes being sold. So that's the one

1086
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: that's the sort of overarching idea. Then other people point

1087
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:49,439
Speaker 1: to like problems that are a little bit bigger within

1088
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 1: the Girl Scouts that they said, you know, over the

1089
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 1: last twelve years, the membership has declined from two and

1090
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: a half million to one point eight million. And some

1091
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 1: say they said, because the Boy Scouts have like began

1092
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 1: to rebrand and change their policy that just that will

1093
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: also allow like anyone to join out, not just boys.

1094
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: That it's also siphoning away some of their membership, Like

1095
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: is like the more conspiratorial, like it's the Boy Scouts,

1096
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: they're they're they're messing up our recruitment. I think the

1097
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: other there's a few other things though, too that I

1098
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 1: think might make sense. Wait, the argument there though, is

1099
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 1: that there are not literally not enough boots on the

1100
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: ground for the Girl Scouts to move the product essentially,

1101
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: Like that's one because this gets soldiers soldiers on the

1102
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 1: corners exactly, everyone exactly, and then they come back to

1103
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 1: the throw a tennis ball across the street, and then

1104
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 1: you throw up a hand signal, so you know how

1105
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 1: many things to give the custis. But the other thing

1106
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 1: that's really interesting is that whole like at the end

1107
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 1: of the last year, that the huge stories that were

1108
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: coming out about palm oil production and how it's used

1109
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: this child labor. It's terrible for the environment, and it's

1110
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: also like a huge ingredient in Girl Scout cookies. And

1111
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 1: that led some troop leaders in certain jurisdiction in certain

1112
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 1: parts of the country say, you know what, we don't

1113
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 1: want to use our children to sell products that were

1114
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 1: created by children. Huh. Interesting. Um, so that's like another

1115
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 1: reason they said, some some people were so woke. But

1116
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 1: then I think a lot of people also just point

1117
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 1: to the fact, like you're saying, there's no when people

1118
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 1: aren't going into an office, you're not able to just

1119
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 1: voist just tens of boxes on coworkers and people like that.

1120
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 1: And also they say that just overall, like for the

1121
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: last ten years, there's so much more options for kids

1122
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 1: for things they can do, like and what they want

1123
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: to put their energy, and it's not always just going

1124
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 1: to be Girl Scouts. Now there's your radios, I tell

1125
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 1: you what rot their damn brains. They seem like the conflict, Yeah,

1126
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 1: that that this feels like an er situation where it's

1127
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: just we were not together and sort of Girl scott

1128
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: cookies are you know, a social product that seems like

1129
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: the answer to me. Yeah, yeah, And I just don't know.

1130
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: I think also, I don't know. I feel like over

1131
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 1: the years, I've slowly began to look at Girl Scout

1132
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: cookies with more contempt, just in terms of like they're

1133
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: not they don't hit the same Like this was it

1134
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 1: because I was a kid, and I was like, you know,

1135
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 1: it was like the one thing that like the sweets

1136
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: that my parents would like let me have because it's

1137
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 1: like we're supporting my friend school who wants them. But

1138
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 1: then now, like I remember, just like some of the

1139
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 1: newer flavors just don't sit right with me. I don't know,

1140
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 1: I don't know if maybe my palate is I've just

1141
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 1: gonne beyond the girl Scout cookies. Now yeah, also, like

1142
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 1: I mean, why don't they just collapse? Like I'm sure

1143
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: it will become increasingly weird for the Scouts to be

1144
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 1: gendered by like boys Scout girls scout right, and the

1145
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 1: boy Scouts changed their name to Scouts B S A.

1146
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:55,240
Speaker 1: I don't know why they kept it kept the initials

1147
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 1: of Boy Scouts of America, but like it seems like

1148
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:00,760
Speaker 1: that is probably the next move is just to like

1149
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 1: collapse them. And but I don't know, the fact that

1150
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 1: that's not even being part of the conversation suggests to

1151
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 1: me that maybe I'm too naive for this cub Scouts game,

1152
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 1: all right? Might be? Yeah, well, Jody, such a pleasure

1153
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 1: having him in. Where can people find you? Follow you here?

1154
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 1: You all that good stuff. I appreciate you asking that

1155
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,640
Speaker 1: people can listen to this day in esoteric political history.

1156
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 1: It just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it. Um Wherever

1157
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 1: you get your podcast. It's a Radiotopia show, so um,

1158
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 1: you know, you can find us there. And then I

1159
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 1: I am on Twitter at Jody Abragan and you can

1160
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 1: find me there too. Nice And is there a tweet

1161
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 1: or some of the work of social media you've been enjoying.

1162
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:48,920
Speaker 1: I actually do have one Instagram account I really do

1163
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 1: want to recommend I've been enjoying the hell out of lately.

1164
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 1: And it's called It's the Countess ball House. If you

1165
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 1: just google ball House Instagram, it's like got some weird spelling,

1166
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 1: but if you google you'll find it. But it's it's

1167
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 1: this guy who does side by side images of photos

1168
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 1: from the NBA with like master artwork next to it

1169
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 1: that sort of look the same. I mean, it's it's

1170
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 1: very hard to describe, but he finds these synergies and connections.

1171
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: So have all have a photo from last night's playoff

1172
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 1: game with like a Dega right next to it and

1173
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: they look almost exactly the same. Or you know, he'll

1174
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 1: have like a Da Koon ng and then a photo

1175
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 1: of James Harden and he just has this ability to

1176
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 1: to make these mashups and find these connections. It's like,

1177
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:33,439
Speaker 1: uh has has it in any just world. This would

1178
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 1: have like five million followers and right now it's like

1179
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 1: two thousand. But it is amazing. These are you see this? Yeah,

1180
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 1: and it's spell like house. The house is spelled like

1181
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 1: bow house. So it's it's it's all underscore. So it's

1182
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 1: B underscore A underscore, L underscore L underscore, H underscore

1183
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 1: A underscore you underscore s got it. But it is

1184
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: brilliant if you know, if if you like art at all,

1185
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 1: not that you don't even have to know anything about art,

1186
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 1: but if you feel things looking at works of art,

1187
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:07,120
Speaker 1: this is actually it's. Yeah. The way he's sort of

1188
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 1: distilling a lot of these images and then finding like

1189
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 1: these parallels and find art is yeah. I like this. Yeah,

1190
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 1: I likes pretty great. It's pretty good. Thank you. It

1191
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 1: was one of those things when I discovered it, I

1192
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 1: like immediately emailed and texted everywhere, right, so I'm trying

1193
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:23,480
Speaker 1: to spread the word. It's one of those get in

1194
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 1: early miles. Where can people find you? And what's a

1195
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 1: social media work? You've been enjoying Twitter, Instagram, Miles of

1196
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 1: Gray and also the other podcast for twenty Day Fiance.

1197
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 1: You could check us out on Twitch, dot tv, slash

1198
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 1: four twenty day fiance. We're talking ninety day fiance if

1199
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:44,720
Speaker 1: it wasn't clear, And you know, I'm not really kind

1200
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 1: of in the same boat, you know, I was talking

1201
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 1: about therapists. I'm like, you know, sometimes you're you get

1202
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 1: your get your wheels going spinning too fast when you're

1203
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:54,560
Speaker 1: on that social media. So I just want to shout

1204
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 1: out an account on TikTok of this really fantastic drummer

1205
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 1: who plays like drummin bay and like jungle type beats

1206
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 1: like on a kit and has like all these like

1207
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 1: really great symbols to give you all kinds of like

1208
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 1: reverse symbol sounds and stuff. And he's playing it all

1209
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 1: live and so it's a combination of social because you

1210
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:12,959
Speaker 1: get to watch it. But then he gets a little

1211
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 1: to naj and the count is called ned Drums one

1212
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 1: to three. That's on TikTok. I think he has an

1213
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 1: Instagram account, but you can see this dude just get

1214
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 1: just nasty on the kid playing like what is you know,

1215
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 1: traditionally like sample electronic beats. So yeah, check that off tweet.

1216
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 1: I've been enjoying Josh Gondleman just in general has been

1217
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: very funny on Twitter lately. He tweeted, It's unreal that

1218
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 1: the public bathroom air hands dryer industry a k. The

1219
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 1: airborne germ blowing around industry survived the past year and

1220
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 1: a half. They must have the most powerful lobby in Washington.

1221
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:54,720
Speaker 1: And then George Wallace Mr. George Wallace, classic tweeter and

1222
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 1: comedian tweeted, I grew up so poor we could only

1223
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 1: listen to cool or the Gang. Um uh thet you're

1224
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 1: feeling that? Uh. You can find me on Twitter at

1225
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 1: Jack Underscore O'Brien. You can find us on Twitter at

1226
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 1: Daily zeitgeiscre at the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have

1227
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 1: Facebook fan page and a website, Daily zeitgeist dot com,

1228
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 1: where we post hire episodes. On our footnotes, we link

1229
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 1: off to the information that we talked about in today's episode,

1230
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 1: as well as a song we think you might enjoy. Miles.

1231
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: What are we sending people towards more Hiatus? Coyote? Yeah

1232
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 1: you haven't been listening, Come on now, get into it

1233
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 1: and Coyote spelled k A I Y O T E.

1234
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:47,720
Speaker 1: They're my favorite band right now. They're so solid on

1235
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 1: their instruments. I say that every time as someone who

1236
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 1: plays bass and trumpet and want to be drummer. I'm

1237
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 1: always impressed with the instrumentation. This track is called Chivalry

1238
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 1: is Not Dead, and it's just the songs are so

1239
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 1: like rich with the sounds that they use, and like

1240
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 1: even how they go into odd meter at times. So

1241
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 1: check this out. Chivalry is Not Dead. I can't believe

1242
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 1: they have a song named after my catchphrases Chivalry is

1243
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:17,760
Speaker 1: not Dead, Ladies. The Daily Zyka is a production of

1244
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio from more podcast from my Heart Radio,

1245
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 1: visit the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you

1246
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. That's gonna do it for

1247
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 1: us this morning. We're back this afternoon to tell you

1248
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 1: what's trending, and we'll talk to you all day. Bite, bite,