1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: You're listening to Law and Order Criminal Justice System, a 2 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: production of Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts hilaan Order CJS listeners. 3 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: The second season may be over, but the team is 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: still thinking about the stories we featured and the people 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: who told them. Each episode can only hold so much, 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: so we wanted to share a little more from some 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: of those conversations. You'll remember Joe Connor from episode one. 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: He was nine years old when his father, Frank Connor, 9 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: was one of the four people killed in the nineteen 10 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: seventy five Francis tavern bombing. Joe grew up without his 11 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: dad and has lived with that pain. He's also spent 12 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: decades trying to ensure that the people who are responsible 13 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: for taking his dad's life are held accountable, and that 14 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: is a piece of these stories that is not often 15 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: talked about, the tola takes, especially when for people like Joe, 16 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: it still remains out of reach. While many years have 17 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: passed since then, the loss continues to shape his life. 18 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: I mean I missed showing him my wife and my 19 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 2: kids and having that time with him. My dad missed 20 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 2: out on so much, missed out on his son's playing sports, 21 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 2: missed out on us going to high school and college, 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 2: on marrying and having beautiful kids. And I missed out 23 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 2: on having a guy like him that I could talk 24 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 2: to over the years. Well, my friends had their dads 25 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: and they would have their talks. And my dad was 26 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 2: a New York kid, and I think I would have 27 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 2: really enjoyed knowing him and probably him telling me where 28 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 2: I was screwing up. But I never really had that. 29 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 2: I never had the support. 30 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: As Joe got older, he wanted to know more about 31 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: who his father was, what really happened, and whether anyone 32 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: had ever been held accountable. 33 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 2: I got out of college in nineteen eighty eight and 34 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 2: there weren't very many jobs, and I was fortunate enough 35 00:01:58,320 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 2: to get a job at Morgan. 36 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: His father had once worked there too. Entering those doors 37 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: was like retracing his father's footsteps. 38 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 2: When I got to JP Morgan, then I asked to 39 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 2: look at his file, and at first they didn't want 40 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: to give it to me. We had to sign a 41 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 2: waiver that we wouldn't sue the bank. So I started 42 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 2: reading about him at a professional level. You know, a 43 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 2: nine year old only knows his father up to certain points, 44 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 2: and I'm getting to know him. 45 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: Those files also let him down a path that would 46 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: partially define the rest of his life. 47 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: At that time, it was nineteen ninety I started writing 48 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 2: letters to the State Department, to the Justice Department, to 49 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 2: Secretary of State because I wanted Morales return. 50 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: William Morales was the f al n's chief bombmaker and 51 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: in Joe's mind, the person most responsible for the bombing. 52 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy nine, Morales was convicted for possession of 53 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: explosives but not related to the Francis Tavern attack. He 54 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: escaped from prison later that year and he. 55 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 2: Ended up in Mexico and then was in a gunfight 56 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 2: with Mexican federales who had closed in on him. A 57 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 2: couple of Mexican cops were killed, He was arrested, sentenced 58 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 2: to prison, spent five years in a Mexican prison before 59 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 2: they extradited him to Cuba, where he wanted to be, 60 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 2: against the wishes of Reagan, who was trying to get 61 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: him returned. 62 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: At the time. Morales was granted asylum by Cuba and 63 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: has been living there as a free man ever since. 64 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: And I started getting very focused on that at that time, 65 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 2: and that was before we even had emails, So these 66 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: were letters and I still have some of them. They 67 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: were sent back and forth where they acknowledged that Morales 68 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: is there, he's a terrorist, but we have no extradition 69 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: treaty with Cuba, which, as it turns out, isn't exactly true. 70 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: Over the next decade, Joe found allies who shared his outrage, 71 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: people who had worked the case from the start and 72 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: never stopped caring. 73 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: And I started getting to know some of the investigators. 74 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: And Rick Hahn, who was the FBI agent in Chicago, 75 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 2: Jeremy Margolis who was the prosecutor in Chicago. Both are 76 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: still really good friends of ours, and the filled in 77 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 2: the police end of it. I knew the family side 78 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 2: of it, but I didn't really understand the investigation. I 79 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 2: didn't understand what all these people had done and who 80 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 2: they were and how they were caught. 81 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: What began as a son's search for closure has become 82 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: a quest writing letters, giving testimony, and pressing officials to act. 83 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: His pursuit would span decades and cross borders, driven by 84 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: the memory of the father he lost. Over the years, 85 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: multiple members of the FALN had been prosecuted and gone 86 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: to prison for crimes ranging from conspiracy to weapons possession. 87 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: No one had been prosecuted for the Francis tavern attack 88 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: that took Joe's dad. In nineteen ninety nine, then President 89 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: Bill Clinton granted clemency to sick Wa teen members of 90 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: the FALN. 91 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 2: They were given clemency, and Morales was not included in 92 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 2: that group. He is in Cuba and has been for 93 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: a long time. 94 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: To Joe, Morales wasn't just another fugitive. He represented everything 95 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: that had gone wrong, the unfinished story, and the failure 96 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: to follow through. Every time another administration softened its stance 97 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: toward Cuba, Joe saw the window for accountability closing. 98 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 2: I think what has driven me and I think my 99 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 2: family is that the terrorists who murdered my dad, it 100 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 2: wasn't just Morales who was the whole FALN. These terrorists 101 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 2: were all convicted, They were put in prison for an 102 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 2: awfully long time. They were then released by our politicians, 103 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 2: and in my mind, my father deserved better. They used 104 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 2: my father's life for their political gains, and that, to 105 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: me is completely unacceptable. So if these guys had stayed 106 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 2: in prison in nineteen ninety nine were never released, I 107 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 2: never would have been fighting for any of this. 108 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: And when the political clemencies set some of the f 109 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: al NS members free. Joe was prepared to fight. 110 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 2: And so at that point I testified in front of 111 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 2: the Senate Judiciary Committee about the Hillary's role and Bill's 112 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 2: role in their release. 113 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: The testimony made Joe a visible voice for many families. 114 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: It also pulled him in deeper. The names he'd once 115 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: only read in files were suddenly real people again, still living, 116 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: still unrepentant. 117 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 2: One of the terrorists at that time, Oscar Lopez Rivera, 118 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 2: refused clemency and stayed in prison, and I ended up 119 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 2: going to his parole hearing in twenty eleven in Terre Haute. 120 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 2: Lopez was clearly if you're going to talk about a leader, 121 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 2: Lopez and a guy named Carlos Torres, with the two 122 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 2: leaders as you'd say. Freddie described Lopez as recruiter. We 123 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 2: have videos of Lopez and the guy's building bombs in 124 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 2: a safe house in Chicago. So that's why Lopez stands out, 125 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 2: And when he turned down the clemency in nineteen ninety nine, 126 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 2: we didn't know why. 127 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: So when Lopez Rivera became eligible for parole, Joe saw 128 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: his chance to try and get some answers for the 129 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: families that hearing was more than a bureaucratic formality. It 130 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: was a chance to look a terrorist in the eye. 131 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 2: The night before, there was a whole group of us 132 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 2: who went to Terre Hope. It was my brother and me, 133 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 2: Deanie Berger Edison whose husband was killed at my dad 134 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 2: god named Bill Newhall, who was at the table with 135 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 2: my dad and an FBI agent, Don Woodford. And the 136 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 2: night before we were at like a Howard Johnson's in 137 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 2: middle of the winter in terror Hood, Indiana. We sat 138 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 2: around there and talked about what would the next day 139 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 2: be like facing Lopez and none of us had really 140 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 2: any background and going to a maximum security prison and 141 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: facing a terrorist. 142 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: The next morning, Joe and other victims relatives sat in 143 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: a small prison conference room across from Lope Rivera. For 144 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: the first time, the man whose organization had bombed France's 145 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: tavern had to listen to the people he'd heart. 146 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 2: We all kind of agreed that if he would just 147 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 2: admit it, if he would just come clean and apologize, 148 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 2: that maybe we would recommend that they do release him 149 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: on parole. 150 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: But what Joe had hoped might bring some sense of 151 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: closure didn't. 152 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 2: We were thinking if Lopez would just say, look, I 153 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,239 Speaker 2: was young and I was crazy and it was horrible 154 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: what I did, and own up to it and apologize 155 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 2: for it. Then it would relieve us who were in 156 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 2: the room of a lot. But he wouldn't even give 157 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 2: us that he lied, he offuscated. 158 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: It was horrible that meeting stayed with Joe, the lies, 159 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: the lack of remorse, and the sense that justice had 160 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: slipped further away. 161 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 2: Carrying this around for all these years is heavy. Carrying 162 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: around my father's murder but also the justice side of it. 163 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 2: It's a lot, and at some point I wanted to 164 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 2: go away, but it's only going to go away if 165 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 2: it's recognized. If Lopez or the politicians who released the terrorists, 166 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 2: or Morales is returned. There has to be some point 167 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 2: of recognition or justice. They talk about closure, and maybe 168 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 2: it's closure that I'm seeking, and maybe I'll never find it. 169 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: This year, fifty years after the bombing that killed his father, 170 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: Joe found himself back where it all began, France's tavern. 171 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: It was now a memorial site, and Joe was no 172 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 1: longer the boy who lost his dad. He was now 173 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: the man who had kept the case alive. 174 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 2: We went back to Francis Tavern, where we've gone for 175 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 2: the last fifteen years or so on the anniversary of 176 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 2: January twenty fourth, and in the past it's been a 177 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: small group of family, friends, law enforcement, but maybe ten 178 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 2: or fifteen people. This year we had close to fifty. 179 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: And it really to celebrate the lives of those who 180 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 2: were murdered Alejandro Berger, Jim Goezork, Harold Sherburne, and my 181 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: dad Frank Connor, who lost their lives at Lunchtime bombing 182 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 2: fifty years ago. 183 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: The event was about remembrance, but also more it was 184 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: also about persistence and showing that time had not built 185 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: their memories. 186 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 2: This year we had law enforcement, some newer guys who've 187 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 2: been working on terrorism cases more recently, and we also 188 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 2: had a bunch of guys who worked the case fifty 189 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 2: years ago. And in addition to that, my mom who's 190 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 2: eighty six now, my kids were there, my wife and 191 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 2: my brother and his sons. We had a woman whose 192 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 2: husband was killed that day. She and her family were there. 193 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: It was an emotional gathering, generations of families and investigators 194 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: standing in the same room, linked by one single violent act. 195 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 2: It was a tough day to plan and to do 196 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,599 Speaker 2: it right, because what are you really Are you celebrating 197 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 2: people getting murdered or are you memorializing them? And I 198 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 2: think we all came to the conclusion that we were 199 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 2: memorializing them. 200 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 1: The event led to a renewed call for action. 201 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 2: After the luncheon, we had a press conference because we're 202 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 2: calling for the new administration to bring Morales and the 203 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 2: other fugitives in Cuba back from Cuba and face American 204 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 2: justice where they've already been convicted. We have a bill 205 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 2: that was introduced in front of the Senate by Marco 206 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 2: Rubio in the fall, called the Frank Connor Warner Forster 207 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 2: Justice Act, calling for the return of these terrorists from Cuba. 208 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 2: And now we have Rubio as a Secretary of State, 209 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 2: so Rubio can do much of the things that we're 210 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 2: in the bill. He can do now as the Secretary 211 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 2: of State, and he is a great advocate for our 212 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: families and against Cuba. So the bill's being picked up 213 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 2: by Senator Rick Scott. But we have Marco Rubio in 214 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: the executive branch now, and if we're ever going to 215 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 2: have the chance to get Morales and these other terrorists back, 216 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 2: now's the time. 217 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: Half a century later, Joe was still asking for the 218 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: same thing he'd wanted as a boy, justice and accountability 219 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: for his father's murder. The fal And members who had 220 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: served time were prosecuted on other charges, but not for 221 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: the murders that had shattered that restaurant in nineteen seventy five. 222 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 2: They asked me when we did the press conference after 223 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 2: the Frances saying, what would justice mean to me? And 224 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 2: at this point, justice would mean just having Morales finish 225 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 2: out his sentence for what he did, and that would 226 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 2: be justice. But really, deep down, I want recognition about 227 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 2: my father. 228 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: After fifty years, Joe's needs are different today than they 229 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: were in earlier years. It's no longer about revenge or 230 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: even prosecution. It's that need for acknowledgment. 231 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 2: There's evil out there that has to be defeated. When 232 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 2: you say see it. It can't be coddled, it can't 233 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 2: be excused, it has to be defeated. 234 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: After half a century of fighting, Joe Connor knows there 235 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: may never be a final resolution. 236 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 2: If honestly, if we can get Morales back, that'd be 237 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 2: freaking awesome. I'm fifty nine, can't be doing this forever. 238 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 2: So we need something that kind of allows me to say, 239 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 2: all right, there's really not much more I can do, 240 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 2: and morales Back would definitely do that. 241 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: He spent decades fighting to get Frank Connor the justice 242 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: he deserves. It's a battle that has also helped keep 243 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: the memory of his father alive. 244 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 2: We say never forget, and that's only half of it. 245 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 2: It's never forget, but always act. Everyone has something and 246 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 2: sometimes it could be a disease that's in the family, 247 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 2: it could be anything. But I think people really kind 248 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 2: of look back at their lives and I've kind of 249 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 2: been doing that more recently and saying, like, you know, 250 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 2: have I wasted my life or not? And I think 251 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 2: that the answer is no. I think that what better 252 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 2: thing is there than fighting for something you believe in. 253 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: While Joe Connor has spent decades fighting to receive justice 254 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: for the attack that took his father's life, others have 255 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: dedicated their careers to stopping the next one before it occurs. 256 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: You've heard some of those stories this season from the 257 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: dedicated agents that work those cases. One of them is 258 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: Barry Black. You first met him in our episode about 259 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: the Oklahoma City bombing, where he helped unravel what happened, 260 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: and then what investigators learned from it. Years later, Barry 261 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: found himself confronting a new threat, one that echoed the 262 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: past in unsettling ways. Years after Waco, in Oklahoma City, 263 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: Barry had built a reputation as someone with expertise in 264 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: explosives and threats, which is why a case that started 265 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: with the particular fugitive landed on his desk. 266 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 3: I had convicted a guy that threatened to bomb a 267 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 3: police station after he finished his prison sentence, he was 268 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 3: on probation, violated the conditions of his probation, and then 269 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 3: was a fugitive. While he was a fugitive, he met 270 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 3: this other man who invoked mcveigh's name and said he 271 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 3: wanted to perpetrate a truck bombing attack. 272 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: His name was Jerry Drake Varnell. The informant hadn't given 273 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: the information to police right away. 274 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 3: It was only after he was sitting in jail for 275 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 3: his probation violation that he thought, maybe I should tell 276 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 3: somebody about this guy I met while I was on 277 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 3: the run. So he told his attorney. Attorney called Department 278 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 3: of Justice. DOJ called us because this is where venue lay. 279 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 3: That's how that case came to us. 280 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: The tip pointed to someone who needed to be looked 281 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: at seriously. He was supposedly already focusing on specific targets. 282 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: Part of what investigators learned was that Barnell's inspiration came 283 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: from an unusual place, not just Timothy McVeigh, but a movie. 284 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 3: His motivation was really based on the movie Fight Club. 285 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 3: You know you don't discuss Fight Club, but he wanted 286 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 3: to reset everyone's debt clock. He thought our system was flawed, 287 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 3: and he initially was going to target the Federal Reserve 288 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 3: building in Washington. 289 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: As the plan evolved, his target shifted from one state 290 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: to another, but ultimately he decided to attack closer to home, 291 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: one of. 292 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 3: The largest banking headquarters in the city or the state 293 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 3: of Oklahoma, Bank First. This Bank First is one of 294 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,359 Speaker 3: the largest banks in the state and it is headquartered 295 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 3: here in Oklahoma City. The goal was destroy all the records, 296 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 3: set everyone's debt clock to zero, strike a blow against capitalism. 297 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 3: He had actually had an end app with a message 298 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 3: that was going to be posted after the blast, saying 299 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 3: that this was a blow against the system. Just as McVeigh, 300 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 3: it didn't work, and these things don't work. This is 301 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 3: not the way to bring about change. 302 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 1: In the very city still marked by the horrors of 303 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: mcveigh's nineteen ninety five bombing, and only four blocks south 304 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 1: of the Murrow Building. Jerry Drake Farnell wanted to leave 305 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: his own signature on history. Law enforcement needed to know 306 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: how far he was willing to go. 307 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 3: We took the threat seriously enough and introduced an undercover operation, 308 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 3: and I suggested that our undercover agent used the background 309 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 3: as an apprentice blaster for a quarry out east. He 310 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,959 Speaker 3: met the subject several times, and it became obvious that 311 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 3: the man said he had background in electronics, was familiar 312 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 3: with explosives, lived out on a farm out in western Oklahoma, 313 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 3: so he had access to fuel and oxidizer, and he 314 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 3: was very specific that he actually wanted to build the 315 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 3: bomb himself. 316 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: What made the case different from others was how involved 317 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: Varnell himself wanted to be. 318 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 3: The things he said began to make me worry that 319 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 3: he might do this on his own, so we sort 320 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 3: of expedited things. Unlike some other terrorists who just want 321 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 3: a bomb and they want to go set it off themselves, 322 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 3: he wanted to be intimately involved in its creation. 323 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: The FBI came up with a plan a way to 324 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: safeguard citizens while still building their case against Barnell. 325 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 3: So I worked with some of our chemists and we 326 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 3: developed a way to render what he thought was a 327 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 3: thousand pounds of commercial info inert, and he was going 328 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,239 Speaker 3: to use a small shop out in the country to 329 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,719 Speaker 3: build the device. We knew where that was going to be, 330 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 3: so we had it tecked up with audio and video. 331 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,479 Speaker 1: Agents watched someone in shop as he began assembling what 332 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: looked like a massive truck bomb, and. 333 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 3: I remember sitting in the emergency Operations center thinking, surely, 334 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 3: this man's not going to build one thousand pound bomb, 335 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 3: But he started putting it together very artfully. 336 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: This wasn't theory anymore, it was real. The investigation was 337 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 1: moving quickly and agents tried to learn all that they could. 338 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: The assigned undercover agent asked Barnell what his plan might 339 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: mean for people inside the building. 340 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 3: He wanted to detonate the bomb overnight, and in some 341 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 3: of the undercover discussions he was asked, well, you know 342 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 3: there's janitorial people and security people in the building, and 343 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 3: he goes, well, if you're going to make an omelet 344 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 3: you have to crack a few eggs, so the thought 345 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 3: of killing people didn't bother him. It was just perhaps 346 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 3: the magnitude, But the goal was destroy the building, and 347 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 3: if there were people in it, as far as he 348 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 3: was concerned, that would have just been collateral damage. 349 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: That was the turning point, how the FBI had proof 350 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: in his own words that he was willing and ready 351 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: to take lives. It was no longer just about resetting 352 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 1: a deck clock or making a symbolic gesture against the system. 353 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: He was prepared to see innocent people die if that's 354 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: what it took to make his point. From that moment forward, 355 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: the FBI shifted from investigation Alan to preparing for the 356 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: day he would try to act. Surveillance was layered across 357 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: the operation, and then that day arrived and Varnell got 358 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: into a van with the bomb he'd made and drove 359 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: towards his target. 360 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 3: I had reserved a particular room in a nearby hotel 361 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 3: which could oversee all the avenues of Ingress and Egrass, 362 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 3: and we had aerial surveillance and static and rolling surveillance 363 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 3: and followed him all the way through town, and I 364 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 3: watched him pull that bomb laden van underneath the building, 365 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 3: and he casually walked away, gotten to get away car. 366 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: In the shadow of the Murrow Building site history like 367 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 1: it was trying to repeat itself. 368 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 3: I really hoped that it wouldn't happen. The threat of 369 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 3: that event in Oklahoma City is important to our community, 370 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 3: so I knew the folks at the bank. 371 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: The building itself was a landmark with employees and families 372 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: who still lived with the memory of the nineteen ninety 373 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 1: five bombing. But as Vernell tried to set his plan 374 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: in motion, law enforcement was ready. 375 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 3: They knew that the bank was targeted, but the device 376 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 3: was inert and we had absolute control over him and 377 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 3: the device itself. 378 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: From only a few blocks away, Varnell waited with anticipation 379 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: for his bomb to blow. The FBI had let him 380 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,479 Speaker 1: move forward with his plan, but they made sure that 381 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: no one would get hurt in the process. The device 382 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: in the van it didn't contain a single ounce of 383 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: live explosive, but Varnell didn't know it. 384 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 3: He wanted to see and feel the detonation, so he 385 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 3: dialed the detonation code three separate times, but he was 386 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 3: actually dialing my cell phone. When he dialed that number. 387 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 3: The first time and it didn't detonate. He pulled out 388 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 3: a cigarette, had to smoke, dialed it twice more. 389 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 1: Varnell's attempts to detonate the bomb once twice three times 390 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,199 Speaker 1: made his intent crystal clear. With their last pieces of 391 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: evidence now gathered, agents moved in for the arrest. The 392 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: takedown was immediate. Within hours, the case was inside a 393 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: federal court. 394 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 3: He was arrested on a complaint and then indicted very 395 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 3: early the next morning when the courts opened. I believe 396 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 3: the initial charge was intent to use destructive device and 397 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 3: interstate commerce something along those lines. There was a superseding 398 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 3: indictment for the attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction. 399 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: For the FBI, the first priority have been clear, prevent 400 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: another Oklahoma City attack, prevent another bomb period. Now the 401 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: question turned out how prosecutors would prove their case in court. 402 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: Prosecutors anticipated that the defense might try to minimize the 403 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: size of Arnell's device by comparing it to mcveigh's. Barry 404 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: prepared a demonstration to erase that argument. 405 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 3: I recreated his thousand pound device at Fort Riley, Kansas, 406 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 3: so there's nothing around it, and we brought in high speed, 407 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 3: slow motion video cameras and different types of test equipment 408 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 3: to test over pressure and whatnot, and from a mile 409 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 3: and a half away detonated that thousand pound bomb. We 410 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 3: stopped picking up truck pieces at eleven hundred feet away 411 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 3: and used those images at sentencing. Actually, so we thwarded 412 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 3: the argument that this wasn't that big a deal. 413 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 1: The video itself was ruled inadmissible, but photographs would be allowed. 414 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 3: The judge determined that the high speed slow motion video 415 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 3: was too damning to show that you, so we couldn't 416 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 3: even show the video, but he let me show still 417 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 3: images that showed the what we call the shock front, 418 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 3: the leading edge of that compressed air and this enormous fireball. 419 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 3: And then I was able to give the le expert 420 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 3: testimony as to what that type of atmospheric compression would 421 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 3: do in a confined space in the parking garage of 422 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 3: that bank. 423 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: The strength of the evidence was overwhelming. In twenty nineteen, 424 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 1: Jerry Drake Barnell was convicted and sentenced to twenty five 425 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: years in prison. The case had been a tender balancing 426 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: act with many tense moments, but the FBI had succeeded 427 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,959 Speaker 1: in preventing what could have been a major attack with 428 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: devastating loss, and while they gather their evidence, they had 429 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: taken multiple steps to ensure that the public was never 430 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:57,479 Speaker 1: placed at risk. For Barry, the Varnel case marked the 431 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: close of more than three decades with the FBI. 432 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 3: I retired in twenty nineteen. I stayed an extra year. 433 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 3: It's thirty one years instead of thirty. That last year 434 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 3: was to make sure this case was seen to its fruition. 435 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: After years spent working some of the most notorious bombing 436 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: cases of our time, he ended his career by stopping 437 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: an attack in the very city that had suffered one 438 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: of the worst of them. 439 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 3: Most all of us in this line of work, I 440 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 3: think ideally we want there to be a safe society. 441 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 3: People approach how they would try to make society safer 442 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 3: from different avenues. My part was maybe a little unique, 443 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 3: but having seen some of the bigger cases in modern 444 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 3: history during my career, finishing my career by stopping one 445 00:25:49,160 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 3: felt pretty good. 446 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: Numerous terrorist attacks have been prevented, but far too many 447 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: have been carried out, so many lives lost and countless 448 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: people left to live with the aftermath. But there is 449 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: something else that shines through when you look closely at 450 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: a lot of these stories resilience. Earlier in the season, 451 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: we heard from Amy Downs, a survivor of the Oklahoma 452 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: City bombing. Afterwards, she helped rebuild not just her workplace, 453 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: but she rebuilt her own life. She went back to school, 454 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: became a CEO, and proved that even after such trauma, 455 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: she could recover. Amy's story reminds us that while terrorism 456 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: destroys what endoors can be the strength to rebuild. Amy's 457 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: healing journey included a plan to make her life feel better. 458 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: Prior to the bombing, Amy had disappointments in her personal life, 459 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: and if you remember, Amy had moved to Oklahoma City 460 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 1: to live with her sister after she had dropped out 461 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: of college, it's fair to say she wasn't feeling at 462 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:09,959 Speaker 1: an all time high. 463 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 4: I couldn't pass a math class, and then I thought, well, 464 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 4: that's okay. I have a boyfriend, I have a promise ring, 465 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 4: I'm gonna get married and everything's gonna be fine. And 466 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 4: then he broke up with me. 467 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: So from there, Amy's life had just been moving a 468 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: long day today, and then the bombing occurred after she'd 469 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: physically healed, and then they'd gotten the credit Union back 470 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: up and running. Amy took some time to reflect. She'd 471 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: been given the gift of life when she survived the attack, 472 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 1: and she wanted to make the most of it. 473 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 4: And it was I'd bullet down to this, if you 474 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 4: had a magic wand what would you do? Start there? 475 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 4: And then your next question to yourself is, Okay, given 476 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 4: my current situation, what can I do by anybody else? 477 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 4: But what can I do to move forward to some 478 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 4: version of what I just dreamed of? By doing that, 479 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 4: it takes away the victim card. I can't be a 480 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 4: victim anymore because if I'm going to take responsibility for 481 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 4: where I'm at, it puts it in my hands, you know, 482 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 4: setting those steps and taking action toward it, and that 483 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 4: is what actually creates real hope. 484 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: It was her past that would help Amy achieve her future. 485 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 4: All the focus on work. It gave me the tools 486 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 4: to change my life because at work reinventing ourselves, we 487 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 4: had to get really good at goal setting and we 488 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 4: started learning a framework for how to set those goals, 489 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 4: how to move forward. I was depressed and food was 490 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 4: my drug a choice. Basically, I just turned food for comfort. 491 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: And a single achievable goal. Over the years, Amy had 492 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: put on a significant amount of excess weight and that 493 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: was the place she wanted to start. 494 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 4: The promise to myself was, I'm going to live my 495 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 4: life with purpose and intention. So I always try to 496 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 4: think strategically. Everything I'm doing, I try to think strategically. 497 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 4: I know the food is an addiction. So I really 498 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 4: wanted to tackle my health and the weight that I 499 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 4: was carrying. That extra weight was really bothering me, and 500 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 4: so I want to lose weight. I want to be 501 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 4: able to not have the health issues that are coming 502 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 4: at me. And given my current situation, my current limitations, 503 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 4: I like food. I really like food, and so I researched. 504 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 4: I said, let's just take the shame out and treat 505 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 4: it like a work problem, like I have everything else 506 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 4: and what can I do? And so there was a 507 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 4: gastric sleeve surgery that had just come out, and I 508 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 4: decided that I would do that. But they told me 509 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 4: you got to change your life, you got to change 510 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 4: your ways, or you're get to gain it back. And 511 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 4: it was true. I mean it was. I lost seventy 512 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 4: five pounds and it started coming back on and I thought, oh, 513 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 4: I got to do the exercise thing. 514 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: Amy then turned to family to help her find the 515 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: way forward. 516 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 4: I remember my sister asking her she's a psychologist, and 517 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 4: I said, hey, is there such thing as like can 518 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 4: you force a transfer addiction or something them? You know, 519 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 4: if I've been focused in all this on food, like 520 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 4: what can I transfer that to? And so in my 521 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 4: mind I thought, well, maybe I can get obsessed with 522 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 4: like riding a bike or something. Maybe I can turn 523 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 4: the energy that I had obsessed about food over to 524 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 4: something positive. So then the next thing was I started 525 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,959 Speaker 4: riding a bicycle and I found out I love being outside. 526 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 4: And then I found out I love the way I 527 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 4: feel after I moved my body and I push it 528 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 4: past what I thought I could do. How cool that feels. 529 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: You know? 530 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 4: So I was changing my physical body as well as 531 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 4: the mental and the education and all of those things. 532 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 4: And then that led to riding really long distances on 533 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 4: a bicycle. And then I started running and became a 534 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 4: long distance runner, and then started swimming and started doing 535 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 4: trathlons and became an iron Man, which is completing a 536 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 4: two point four I'll swim, one hundred and twelve mile 537 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 4: bike ride, and a twenty six point two marathon, all 538 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 4: within seventeen hours to be declared iron Man. 539 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: But for Amy, it was about more than just crossing 540 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: finish lines. It was a about rewriting her own story 541 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: and proving to herself that she could live the life 542 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:06,719 Speaker 1: that she dreamed of. 543 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 4: I was fifty years old when I did Iron Man Arizona. 544 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 4: It's like I'm turning fifty. I had to do something badass, 545 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 4: and so I decided, Yeah, we're doing an Iron Man 546 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 4: at fifty. And it's so weird. I went from being 547 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 4: the kid in school that they fought over like I 548 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 4: was the last one. There's always those two pitiful people 549 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 4: last that the team captains had to figure out which 550 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 4: one to pick, and I was always the one nobody 551 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 4: want to pick. And now I love being outside. I 552 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 4: love all that, and I would have never dreamed that 553 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 4: to be true. 554 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: Today, Amy spends much of her time speaking to others, 555 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: motivating them to embrace resilience and to ignite change. She's 556 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: even written a book, Hope is a verb, chronicling her 557 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: experiences and giving advice to help others achieve their goals 558 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: and dreams. Her now is an amazing example of that 559 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: all important word resilience. This part of Amy's story feels 560 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: like the right place to end a season that examined 561 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: the dark world of terrorism and the destruction left behind, 562 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: because even in the shadow of the worst attacks, human 563 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: beings have shown time and time again that they've been 564 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: able to find their way forward, even in the face 565 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: of such trauma and devastation. The same woman, once trapped 566 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: beneath the rubble, now crosses finish lines, and that's the 567 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 1: story worth carrying forward. Law and Order Criminal Justice System 568 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: is a production of Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts. Our 569 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: host is Anna Sega Nicolazzi. The show is written by 570 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: Cooper Mall, Executive produced by Dick Wolf, Elliot Wolf, and 571 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: Stephen Michael at Wolf Entertainment on behalf of iHeart Podcasts. 572 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 3: Executive producers Trevor Young and Matt Frederick, with supervising producer 573 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 3: Chandler Mays and producer Jesse Funk. 574 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: This season is executive produced. 575 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 3: By Anna Sega Nicolazzi. Our researchers are Luke Stantz and 576 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 3: Carolyn Tolmidge. 577 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 2: Editing and sound designed by Trevor Young and Jesse Funk. 578 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 2: Original music by John O'Hara, Original theme by Mike Post, 579 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 2: with additional music by Steve Moore and additional voice over 580 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 2: by me Steve Zarnkelton. 581 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Fox five in New York for providing 582 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: archival material for the show. For more podcasts from iHeart 583 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: in Wolf Entertainment, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts. 584 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 3: Or wherever you get your favorite shows. 585 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.