Speaker 1: Pushkin. Rafael Sadiq is one of the great R and
Speaker 1: B writers and producers of the last thirty years. He
Speaker 1: started out writing and playing bass in the group Tony
Speaker 1: Tony Tony with his brother Dwayne Wiggins on guitar. The
Speaker 1: Tony's had an amazing four album run from eighty eight
Speaker 1: through ninety six, with hit singles like It Never Rains
Speaker 1: in Southern California, Feels Good, Anniversary, and If I Had
Speaker 1: No Loop. Since the group's disbanded, Rafael's released five solo albums,
Speaker 1: starting with two thousand and two's Instant Vintage. His most
Speaker 1: recent Jimmy Lee, is a collection of very personal songs
Speaker 1: about the traumas he and his family experienced growing up
Speaker 1: in Oakland, California. But Rafae's also done some amazing work
Speaker 1: behind the board. He's produced and written for the likes
Speaker 1: of DiAngelo, TLC, Mary J. Blige, Solange, Earthwin and Fire,
Speaker 1: and just recently worked in a handful of songs on
Speaker 1: Beyonce Cowboy Carter album. That's all in addition to his
Speaker 1: work as an Academy Award nominated film composer. It was
Speaker 1: a real honor to speak with Rafael Sadik from a
Speaker 1: studio on Los Angeles about some of the incredible work
Speaker 1: he's done the last handful of years with Beyonce and Solange,
Speaker 1: breaking down his collaboration with the'angelo on the classic track Lady,
Speaker 1: Plus discussing the underrated influence of sly Stone bassist Larry
Speaker 1: Graham on a whole generation of musicians coming up in
Speaker 1: the Bay Area. This is Broken Record liner notes for
Speaker 1: the digital Age. I'm justin Ritchman. Here's my conversation with
Speaker 1: Rafael Sadik. To see the full video version of this episode,
Speaker 1: go to YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast Man. Raphael,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for having us as your beautiful I mean,
Speaker 1: this is one of the I've been to a lot
Speaker 1: of studios. This is thank You's one of the best.
Speaker 2: I thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah, this is
Speaker 2: where it happens for me.
Speaker 1: You know how long you been here?
Speaker 2: I've been here twenty I think twenty years now, working
Speaker 2: out of here, working out here for twenty years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, So that would have been I guess Ray Ray.
Speaker 1: Maybe after Ray Ray you started doing your projects here.
Speaker 2: No, I think I did Ray Ray here, so maybe
Speaker 2: as longer?
Speaker 1: Wow? Was it not? Its in vantage though Instant Vintage.
Speaker 2: Oh so maybe I didn't. I forget which song which
Speaker 2: album came first, now, but I think I did Ray
Speaker 2: Ray was second. So I did the last song of
Speaker 2: on Instant Vintage. Just there's a hidden track at the
Speaker 2: end of every record that I do. Yes, So at
Speaker 2: the end of Instant Vintage, they gave me the keys
Speaker 2: to the studio and so I came in. I had
Speaker 2: an MP sixty and I just dropped the drum machine
Speaker 2: on the desk and I wrote the very last song
Speaker 2: to Instant Vintage.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I want I want to ask you about that.
Speaker 1: How did that tradition start? Because actually I met One
Speaker 1: of my favorite cuts of yours is the hidden track
Speaker 1: on Stone Rolling.
Speaker 2: Is that what Larry Grim?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we did that right here. Let's record it right
Speaker 2: where you're sitting, and me and Larry was here right here.
Speaker 2: Larry's a you know, I mean, that's my my guy.
Speaker 2: I've raised in the same neighborhood in Oakland that he
Speaker 2: he lived in. So we met through some people and
Speaker 2: I invite him to the studio and say I got
Speaker 2: this song, and we just I was it was It
Speaker 2: was hard for me to actually work around him to
Speaker 2: play bass. It seems like I can't really play bass
Speaker 2: when he's around. Really, Yeah, I just I just he's
Speaker 2: the only person I'm around that I I like lock
Speaker 2: up when he comes around.
Speaker 1: Kind of like playing guitar for the Hendrix or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that level of you know, yeah, Pard, the Magic Hendricks
Speaker 1: isn't here, like you know, Larry's still around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Larry's around and he's still great.
Speaker 1: Did you play bass on that? Was that?
Speaker 2: Oh? No, that's that's Larry.
Speaker 1: That's what I thought. It really has that for that.
Speaker 2: Now he's a big boy. He plays big boy bass.
Speaker 2: You notice when he's playing the difference between just the years.
Speaker 2: You can feel like his his his something in his
Speaker 2: fingers is just different.
Speaker 1: He sounded great too. His his oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah he met me sound like it was like a
Speaker 2: chipmunk when when my voice comes on and then his
Speaker 2: voice comes on.
Speaker 1: He just came on. I was like, oh wow, but
Speaker 1: it has that age like you're talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't, you can't. I've been around a couple
Speaker 2: of singers and and that's what happened. I've sang around
Speaker 2: Charlie Wilson and I was singing his song and he
Speaker 2: came in on the other part of it and it
Speaker 2: just sounded like apples and oranges.
Speaker 1: What was what was the occasion for that?
Speaker 2: It was it was some awar show and it was
Speaker 2: a lot of different artists singing, and Charlie was singing
Speaker 2: and we did uh, we did our standing. I think
Speaker 2: we did a couple of songs. But he came on
Speaker 2: and you could just tell the age, the years that
Speaker 2: he put into it. And and Stevie. I've sang around
Speaker 2: Stevie before. Then I heard him sing like right after me,
Speaker 2: and it.
Speaker 1: Just sound like.
Speaker 2: I was like, Wow, it's those pipes, you know, it's
Speaker 2: just those years, you know, like that working that muscle. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and this is really strong, you know.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever get there, by the way,
Speaker 1: because you've seen too much shape. Man, you're in too
Speaker 1: good a shape.
Speaker 2: No, I think, but I think they're in shape that
Speaker 2: I can vocal shape. It's two different types of shapes,
Speaker 2: like get lungs. You know, your pipes they can hold
Speaker 2: notes longer than anybody. Celo Green is another person who can.
Speaker 2: Like I watched him sing Lovely Day one time, and
Speaker 2: he's been a lovely dude and he was looking at me.
Speaker 2: Was I was in Chicago with House of Blues and
Speaker 2: I was right above him and he said, lovely dude,
Speaker 2: and he's just looking at me, and it was going
Speaker 2: forever and how does he do that? So I just
Speaker 2: think that's those those pipes, you know, those age pipes
Speaker 2: of you know, working that muscle.
Speaker 1: And se Low too, just from I mean, and Stevie too.
Speaker 1: I mean Stevie has, of course something like special Sea
Speaker 1: Lo just has just such a just born with some
Speaker 1: pipes that are just fascinating, you know, like.
Speaker 2: He's the one of a kind. We always see each
Speaker 2: other in Atlanta somewhere and say we're going to work together.
Speaker 2: That's one person that do It'll be easy for me
Speaker 2: to work with because he's so soulful and I love
Speaker 2: soulful music too, So I'm waiting for that matchup. That's
Speaker 2: the perfect matchup for me.
Speaker 1: You should definitely do that. He should. You should do
Speaker 1: a full Larry project too, man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be that would be cool. I mean,
Speaker 2: we I used to. I used to when those records
Speaker 2: used to come out in my neighborhood, it would be
Speaker 2: a line in front of the store to buy Grand
Speaker 2: Central Station's Records. It was because he was more like
Speaker 2: a superhero to most in Oakland. I don't know about
Speaker 2: everywhere else, but you know, I would see people lining
Speaker 2: up at this store called records were called House of Music,
Speaker 2: was one of the Tony's records. House of Music. I
Speaker 2: titled the album House and Music because of that store.
Speaker 1: But I was just closed that long ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right now, I was. I was too young to
Speaker 2: go in that store at the beginning, because you know,
Speaker 2: they had all these black posters, you know, the black
Speaker 2: Swede posters, black Pussy Pussy and since you knowwhere since
Speaker 2: you know, when you go in the store and you're
Speaker 2: like eight years old, you're like, oh wow. But then
Speaker 2: you see like you know, James Brown soundtracks, Black Caesars,
Speaker 2: Black Caesar you know. So yeah, but Larry, it was
Speaker 2: definitely a line. So when now when I'm working or
Speaker 2: something and I'm talking to somebody, rest in peace, John John.
Speaker 2: He was always talking about John Singleton about comic books,
Speaker 2: and so I was never privy to be in those
Speaker 2: conversations about comic books because I wasn't into comic books.
Speaker 2: My comic books was Larry Graham gram Station in Parliament,
Speaker 2: funklic records album covers, Pedro Bell did all that, or
Speaker 2: that's ridiculous, that's an interesting like.
Speaker 1: I wonder because Larry Graham I spent some time living
Speaker 1: in Oakland, and so I happen to know how much
Speaker 1: love the Bay has for Larry. It does feel like
Speaker 1: maybe elsewhere Bootsy is kind of the one that.
Speaker 2: Larry's Larry's Larry Steph Curry in Oakland.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that's a great that's a great comparison. He
Speaker 1: really is, he really is. Was that was he your
Speaker 1: inspiration to pick up the bass?
Speaker 2: My inspiration to pick up the base came from my neighborhood.
Speaker 2: It was so many bass players and guitar players, and uh,
Speaker 2: he was the biggest influence once I picked it up
Speaker 2: because he did things that nobody was doing. And so
Speaker 2: you if you couldn't do what he was doing, you
Speaker 2: couldn't really walk into like a jam session and jump
Speaker 2: on the drums because the drummer was gonna challenge you,
Speaker 2: you know, see, like you know, you know how to
Speaker 2: play u pile, and if you didn't know how to
Speaker 2: play pile, then you couldn't be in the room. So
Speaker 2: he was the bar. He's always the bar. Another guy
Speaker 2: in Oakland on to play for the Hawkins family. He
Speaker 2: walked to Hawkins and Edwin Hawkins and Daniel Daniel Hawkins,
Speaker 2: Leannette Hawkins, Tremaine Hawkins. But the guy's Joel Joel Smith.
Speaker 2: He was the other uh, Steph Steph Curry in Oakland.
Speaker 2: I have a huge piece of arder that had somebody
Speaker 2: in there with the base I.
Speaker 1: Was one of I was like, is that Stanley like
Speaker 1: a young Stanley Cark with the bass?
Speaker 2: Joel Smith, He's amazed. He's an amazing drummer. He was
Speaker 2: an He was an amazing drummer and an amazing bass player.
Speaker 2: I looked up to him more than anybody.
Speaker 1: That's interesting because I almost was gonnask you too for
Speaker 1: those Rusty Allen because it kind of Mae was like
Speaker 1: he always got the hat on, but it kind of
Speaker 1: looked like him.
Speaker 2: But it's not Rusty. But Rusty is the beast. Rusty
Speaker 2: should get way more props than he does.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because those those slide records, if he played on
Speaker 2: I'm still studying those records. Matter of fact, I just
Speaker 2: called somebody to try and find Rusty's phone number, really,
Speaker 2: so I could just just want to hang out with him.
Speaker 1: I think I have his email really yeah, okay, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure, Okay, yeah, yeah, he's those I don't want,
Speaker 1: like I almost feel like, you know, and I love
Speaker 1: Larry and I love Grand Central Station. I love but
Speaker 1: some of those Sly records got even better once like.
Speaker 2: He did, he did kill it. I mean, I never
Speaker 2: want to say that, that's like sack religious for me
Speaker 2: to say anything about Larry, but I have to say
Speaker 2: that fresh record well, do work well and then't even
Speaker 2: like if you listen to him play with Bobby Warmack
Speaker 2: Womat Yeah right, Rusty's like his his his choice selection
Speaker 2: on Bassis. Yeah, it's crazy Bassis. It's a crazy instrument. Man.
Speaker 2: You can, you know, fill up church and like a
Speaker 2: lot of those Downy Hathaway records, you know, the basses.
Speaker 2: It's a lot to know, a lot to learn. I
Speaker 2: love bass a lot, you know, so I'm always listening
Speaker 2: to music in my car and just so amazed on
Speaker 2: how many great bass players they really are.
Speaker 1: There's there's there's some great ones. Manino another who.
Speaker 2: Worked with a lot. Yeah, Pino comes by some time
Speaker 2: and we just have a bass off. One time we
Speaker 2: made a bass record. It was just me and him.
Speaker 2: We just it was no other instruments, but bass I
Speaker 2: don't know where to at.
Speaker 1: Y'all didn't put that out though, did you.
Speaker 2: No? He just you know, just pops in sometimes. Well
Speaker 2: he's not traveling with some big rock banders.
Speaker 1: Yeah, with the Who or whatever the whole He's like, I.
Speaker 2: Gotta learn seventy eight songs in two hours for the
Speaker 2: Who tour.
Speaker 1: I'm like, damn, do you ever want to do anything
Speaker 1: like that? Like, dude, like a tour with somebody, like
Speaker 1: a side man for just like a year.
Speaker 2: I'd rather be a side man, really, trust me. If
Speaker 2: the Stones would have called me, like fifteen years ago,
Speaker 2: before the Base money happened for Darryl, Darryl may be gone.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even did my second album for real. I'll
Speaker 2: be out what mom, bust, mom, Jet, come out. It's done.
Speaker 1: Someone's gotta hit you up.
Speaker 2: No, it's adventure just happened, and it's done out of
Speaker 2: solo stuff. I've never done it. I've been gone.
Speaker 1: It's so funny, dude. By speaking of which, you performed
Speaker 1: with Mick at the on the Grammys in twenty eleven
Speaker 1: day and that's the best of her mixed sound outside
Speaker 1: of the Stones really wow, the like the way y'all
Speaker 1: did that Solomon Burke song.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, he's an amazing dude, like he. I mean,
Speaker 2: he's just came in and I wasn't supposed to play,
Speaker 2: you know, because you you you to play on the Grammys,
Speaker 2: you have to be nominated to even to play, even
Speaker 2: to assist another person. That's sort of the rules, I
Speaker 2: guess some bullshit rules whatever whatever. But Mick called me
Speaker 2: and said, I want you to play with me, and
Speaker 2: you know that's the Grammys. So we never really told
Speaker 2: the Grammys. We just he met. Somebody may have told
Speaker 2: him maybe a few days before they found out. Well
Speaker 2: what can they say. They can't say nothing that, you know,
Speaker 2: make play stadiums. He don't need to play the Grammys.
Speaker 1: No one. Yeah. So did you know him like that
Speaker 1: or was it no?
Speaker 2: No, he just I think he heard Stone rolling the
Speaker 2: album Don was is really good in front of his
Speaker 2: and I think that's how the affiliation happened. But it
Speaker 2: was right, I mean, it was it was fun. I
Speaker 2: mean I had a lot of questions for him, you know.
Speaker 1: Did you ask him?
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, Yeah, we talked about you know, hollow
Speaker 2: Wolf and we just talked about those Chess records days
Speaker 2: and you know, I'm a huge Hollandwool fan, and so
Speaker 2: he told me about all kind of stuff. He pulled
Speaker 2: out his harbor. We played blues the the rehearsals. We
Speaker 2: we had more fun at the rehearsals, like for four
Speaker 2: or five days than we did playing you know, at
Speaker 2: the Grammys. But it was it was really cool. He
Speaker 2: was really cool.
Speaker 1: It showed up on the Grammys though, Man, it was
Speaker 1: like it really did. It really did. Man.
Speaker 2: The band I had, the guys had like those guys
Speaker 2: are who was in the back, that's who I think,
Speaker 2: Calvin Turner, Josh on bas Josh Smith is the blues
Speaker 2: guitar man himself, Lamark Lamar Carter on drums, and I
Speaker 2: had Rob Bacon on guitar, which is a Detroit boy
Speaker 2: who's a blues guy, fun guy. I think I had
Speaker 2: four horn players. I think maybe a Berry trumpet, sacks bone.
Speaker 2: I had bj singing background, Erica Jerry singing, Charles play keys.
Speaker 2: But dude, did that band that was probably my best man.
Speaker 2: That was my best man. They fire, yeah, so you know,
Speaker 2: they all big. You know, Mick fans. So I think
Speaker 2: they played better for make than they play for me.
Speaker 2: I was looking back sometime.
Speaker 1: The hag Oh, it's so funny man, and you got
Speaker 1: some yeah those guys do. Lamar you mentioned he was
Speaker 1: on the Stone Rolling album. He was some of those
Speaker 1: drum sounds, y'all.
Speaker 2: He was on the record. Calvin played on the record
Speaker 2: and basically actually on the picture too. It's me, Calvin
Speaker 2: and Lamar and the pictures. No, not the one in
Speaker 2: the front, but there's a picture in the back that
Speaker 2: that plays to the back that we took this little picture.
Speaker 2: It's not highly publicized, but yeah, we did that. They
Speaker 2: played on a song called Moving down the Line. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but most of the record was played by me on drums.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, I played drums on most of all the
Speaker 2: way I see it, wow, and most of Stone Rolling.
Speaker 1: So when did you because you know, it's funny like
Speaker 1: I always think of you more as like a bass player.
Speaker 1: It seems like you've become more of a guitar player
Speaker 1: maybe over the years, but drums too, Like when did that?
Speaker 1: When did that happen?
Speaker 2: I think I picked up the drums the same time
Speaker 2: I picked up the bass. But I'm not a great
Speaker 2: drummer or nothing like that. I can, I can. I
Speaker 2: can put together beat in the record, but you wouldn't
Speaker 2: want me in your band. But in the studio, yeah,
Speaker 2: you want me in the studio because I played these
Speaker 2: beats that are like the fit of a vibe of
Speaker 2: what I'm doing, and sometimes it shifts, it gets a
Speaker 2: little off, and so it's sort of like that on
Speaker 2: the record. So Lamar when he plays my records over,
Speaker 2: he plays the mistakes I make and I'm like, just
Speaker 2: play it like you played.
Speaker 1: But he likes it.
Speaker 2: He's being funny. He's I'm like, bro, come on.
Speaker 1: Bro, that's funny speaking of that little like vibe. I
Speaker 1: was thinking about it, and you know, saying about the
Speaker 1: D'Angelo records and Brown Sugar. You know, I've heard quests
Speaker 1: Love say that. May like maybe y'all asked him to
Speaker 1: play in the first record or something and he wasn't
Speaker 1: feeling it, or maybe he like, I don't know, maybe
Speaker 1: he'd heard about it. It was just kind of a little
Speaker 1: dismissive because he wasn't there with R and B. But
Speaker 1: then he heard the album and loved like the drum
Speaker 1: sound and like just the groove y'all locked into and
Speaker 1: I feel like that groove a little later kind of
Speaker 1: got associated with Dyla who who's a genius of course
Speaker 1: as well, but but that kind of was like, y'all's
Speaker 1: not going to say, like not that it's a competition,
Speaker 1: but kind of early on, I was kind of y'all's.
Speaker 2: I think we me and me and danceel Will have
Speaker 2: the same background in gospel, which is the Hawkins family.
Speaker 2: We both grew up listening to Walter Ed, Danielle and Joe,
Speaker 2: and we didn't know that when we first got together,
Speaker 2: but we figured it out.
Speaker 1: It's kind of random. I mean, you were in the Bay.
Speaker 2: I was in the Bay. He was in Virginia. You
Speaker 2: know that music sort of was all around the world,
Speaker 2: Like really Andre Crouch was more of the bigger pop gospel,
Speaker 2: but the Hawkins family was the more great you know,
Speaker 2: but that was that. So it's somehow it got to
Speaker 2: Virginia and they got in his house. His dad's a
Speaker 2: great piano player, Dancel's dad, so it just it just
Speaker 2: sort of happened. We got in the studio, we was
Speaker 2: making music and.
Speaker 1: We were how did y'all even meet?
Speaker 2: We met through We met through an an r from
Speaker 2: a publishing company. We were signed to the same publishing company,
Speaker 2: so somebody introduced us. And the first time we met,
Speaker 2: Dean was supposed to come to my house and he
Speaker 2: didn't show up the first day and then but he
Speaker 2: came the next day. But I think he thought, you know,
Speaker 2: he was gonna come to a house and it was
Speaker 2: gonna look like the the rich and famous, probably with
Speaker 2: the spiral stairs and helpers everybody in the house, and
Speaker 2: it's like.
Speaker 1: I'm going to yeah.
Speaker 2: But but he thought to me, a lot of people.
Speaker 2: He don't really like a lot of people, you know,
Speaker 2: And then he found out I don't either. So when
Speaker 2: he got to my my little two bathroom, you know,
Speaker 2: two hundred and thirty five thousand dollars crib what you know?
Speaker 2: In my it was in the garage. It was me
Speaker 2: and him and my engineer. It's Sacramento, sac Yeah, And
Speaker 2: I was in this neighborhood full of like lobbies and politicians, right,
Speaker 2: and we were just and he's just he was just
Speaker 2: so surpris she didn't tell me. Later, I thought this
Speaker 2: house was gonna be crowded a lot of people, and
Speaker 2: it wasn't. And so I started playing uh, lady. That's
Speaker 2: the first thing we worked on, was lady. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: have the idea because it was supposed to be for
Speaker 2: Tony's record, the idea, but of music. Maybe I didn't
Speaker 2: like it. They didn't. They didn't like the initial idea.
Speaker 2: They never heard it what it was going to be.
Speaker 2: Neither did I. But I played the guitar riffs for
Speaker 2: D'Angelo and he said, he said, I like it. I said, cool.
Speaker 2: So I was gonna call somebody over to play my
Speaker 2: guitar parts over. He said, no, you usuld leave what
Speaker 2: you did. And that's the first time my guitar playing
Speaker 2: playing ever got on the record. Wow, they ever got
Speaker 2: on the record. Yeah. So, but I think how we
Speaker 2: came up with that, we figured it out we were
Speaker 2: we were playing. We were playing, and we were playing
Speaker 2: behind the beat, but I think we were just really
Speaker 2: trying to lock lock something in and so he would
Speaker 2: fall back and he would start laughing. Then I would
Speaker 2: fall back and we started kind of smiling laughing, and
Speaker 2: it became we just kept going back and forth but
Speaker 2: not talking about it, and it became sort of the
Speaker 2: style of his record. But that's the way he sing sings,
Speaker 2: that's the way he plays wow, and it was just
Speaker 2: natural for him. But he's a Dela fan. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: so then you know I'm a Dela fan too, So
Speaker 2: I figured it out later. We were just mocking Dila.
Speaker 1: Really that that early on.
Speaker 2: I think Deyla was the first one. Okay, are we
Speaker 2: just are we heard it through hip hop?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Right?
Speaker 2: Maybe just maybe we heard it on some on some
Speaker 2: on some Wool Tang records. Maybe we heard it on
Speaker 2: some Tribe records. We just love I love hip hop, right,
Speaker 2: so I think both our love for the Hawks and
Speaker 2: gospel and hip hop up and rock and songwriting, It's
Speaker 2: just it was just a perfect storm at the right time.
Speaker 1: The way you explain that is kind of It's perfect
Speaker 1: that y'all met, because it really is the right combo
Speaker 1: of of everything. I mean.
Speaker 2: I just talked to him yesterday and we don't talk much,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, And it's hard to catch
Speaker 2: either one of us, but yesterday we caught up and
Speaker 2: was like, y'all get picked up. I picked up saying
Speaker 2: I didn't expect you to pick up, but I was
Speaker 2: going to leave you a message about about your feel
Speaker 2: on kids because now I'm practicing keys like, you know,
Speaker 2: piano a lot, and since I've been studying it, I
Speaker 2: always knew what he knew on piano, but now it's
Speaker 2: it's really uh, I really know, like his his touch,
Speaker 2: his approach the piano was different from most gospel piano
Speaker 2: players because these sort of graduated from church. He didn't,
Speaker 2: He didn't make records and get locked into like playing
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of courts like like church guys do.
Speaker 2: He's like really figured out his place with songwriting and
Speaker 2: his touch and his field, and it's different. And that's
Speaker 2: why I called him. We were just laughing about that.
Speaker 1: Because did you send them some stuff or like, no,
Speaker 1: he heard.
Speaker 2: Stuff that I got and he you know, we we
Speaker 2: always go back and forth. But he he got some
Speaker 2: records he that he's excited about, and you know, we
Speaker 2: always just no, no, no, he was here. He came
Speaker 2: here one day. We played, he played the Hollywood Bowl
Speaker 2: and I play guitar with him, and he came here
Speaker 2: afterwards and we just you know, we just pressed play
Speaker 2: and play records. And and he's playing guitar now and
Speaker 2: he's playing bass, and he's he's funky's right now.
Speaker 1: I like seeing him play guitar on that.
Speaker 2: Q tips is q tips is getting good on bass.
Speaker 2: He's getting good on bass. Shat Heat is really good
Speaker 2: on bass. Ship you know Ship. Yeah, Adrian Young is
Speaker 2: getting good on bass. All my friends that didn't play,
Speaker 2: they all pretty good.
Speaker 1: Now did Adrian never play? He played?
Speaker 2: But now I heard him play like maybe two weeks
Speaker 2: ago on the record. I was like, man, who's playing
Speaker 2: on the record? I said, wow, I said you. I
Speaker 2: said you was playing, you know, maybe two years ago,
Speaker 2: but now I wouldn't have known that was you.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So you know, I love to see people putting in
Speaker 2: the work.
Speaker 1: That's a huge compliment from you.
Speaker 2: They putting in the work.
Speaker 1: That's wild. We'll be right back with more from roe
Speaker 1: Field after this break. We're back with Roe Fel. You know,
Speaker 1: it's funny you mentioned that you brought lady to the
Speaker 1: Tonies and kind of I was curious about yours when
Speaker 1: you kind of left the Tonies your switched the guitar,
Speaker 1: Like how your brother Dwayne felt about that because he
Speaker 1: was kind of the guitar, Like was there like a
Speaker 1: little friction with that or like no, no, you look
Speaker 1: at you like like you know you're playing with MC
Speaker 1: Jagger on the tour, make Jagger at the Grams like,
Speaker 1: come on.
Speaker 2: Dog, Actually, I wouldn't even know. I wouldn't even know.
Speaker 2: But when you're gonna be a front man, I like
Speaker 2: front man's that play guitars, not bass. I mean, I
Speaker 2: love like Larry that plays bass. But it's hard to
Speaker 2: play bass and sing Bootsy level forty two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like Rush guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you gotta really be I've played bass on
Speaker 2: one tour as a front, as a singing in the front.
Speaker 2: It's it's not easy. It's fun, but it's not easy.
Speaker 2: I'd rather I want somebody to dig in the bass
Speaker 2: when I'm singing. Yeah, right, so I have to have
Speaker 2: the guy that relieves me on Bay. It's gotta be
Speaker 2: like that dude.
Speaker 1: You know, how did you pick the dude for the
Speaker 1: recent Tony's tour?
Speaker 2: How did I I seen him play? I think I
Speaker 2: found him on Instagram. I've seen him play Gosh Wow, yeah, Josh.
Speaker 2: He's a bad boy too, and he used to play
Speaker 2: with MPG. But I didn't know that at the time.
Speaker 2: You just found him and I found him at the time,
Speaker 2: and I knew he was solid. You know, you just
Speaker 2: need somebody solid. They they got some they got they
Speaker 2: got chopped, but they also know how to play, you know,
Speaker 2: be solid.
Speaker 1: You know, did you consider doing the tour like based
Speaker 1: on the tour or nah?
Speaker 2: Oh no, I never even because I've never played bassed
Speaker 2: on the Tonys tour. Never. I've never even played guitar
Speaker 2: mm hmm.
Speaker 1: But you're on the records.
Speaker 2: I played all the records. Yeah, yeah, how.
Speaker 1: Can you and you just the same reason you didn't
Speaker 1: want you wanted to be because you're you're you're leading.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't think I could do it, honestly, to
Speaker 2: be honest, I didn't think I could do it. I
Speaker 2: didn't think that. You know, syllables and rhythms. You know,
Speaker 2: sometimes when you sing a word in the syllole, sometimes
Speaker 2: your fingers.
Speaker 1: Go with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you have to separate like a drummer. You
Speaker 2: have to separate that pop tat. I could do it.
Speaker 2: I've done it. I've done a tour with me Rob Bacon.
Speaker 2: Rob was on guitars and bass, forgot the drummer and
Speaker 2: Kelvin Wooden play keys, and it was fun. It was,
Speaker 2: you know, less people, more money for me, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was fun.
Speaker 1: One less player. You gotta that was fun. How do
Speaker 1: you separate? I mean, you've, like, man, you've been on
Speaker 1: a hell of a run lately with with composing and
Speaker 1: writing and producing these days, Like how are you spending
Speaker 1: your time like musically, like are you are you? Are
Speaker 1: you writing a lot for your Like.
Speaker 2: I spent my time right there on that piano, this piano. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I spent most of my time on the piano. I
Speaker 2: haven't recorded anything, and maybe maybe it's close to six
Speaker 2: months because I just spent you know, I just I said,
Speaker 2: I just want to practice and just play and not
Speaker 2: just loop everything, because you know, when you're recording now
Speaker 2: you're able to you just loop everything and you never
Speaker 2: get any practice time on any instrument. So I'm just
Speaker 2: doing a lot of listening to you know, a lot
Speaker 2: of Donnie, a lot of earth Wind, a lot of
Speaker 2: going to shows I just wanted, you know, concerts, and
Speaker 2: figuring out when I'm a tour again in twenty five,
Speaker 2: and and just figuring out a lot of keyboard stuff,
Speaker 2: listen to songs that I really love and learning how
Speaker 2: to play them and just knowing, you know, learning what
Speaker 2: I'm playing. You know, I'm taking piano lessons. I take
Speaker 2: piano lessons three days a week. Wow, I don't take
Speaker 2: classical pianos. I haven't played no one full classical piece yet.
Speaker 2: But because I'm I'm just starting from the very reading everything. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I played first bone in school. I played trombone
Speaker 2: in high screen. We was cheating in school, That's why
Speaker 2: we was writing down the positions, you know, fun too
Speaker 2: for we knew, you know, I could read bass cleft
Speaker 2: pretty good then, but you know you don't. You don't
Speaker 2: use it, you lose it. Yeah, so it's from the beginning.
Speaker 1: Now, Wow, what what what made you want to like
Speaker 1: woodshed right now? Like? What was the impetus for that?
Speaker 1: Like was like a moment where you're like, oh, man.
Speaker 2: Like I got bored. I mean I just I love
Speaker 2: I love piano, I love chlores, I love voice sings,
Speaker 2: and I just want I wouldn't have so much artillery
Speaker 2: to write to grab from. Like I can hear everything,
Speaker 2: I can hear it, but I just want to be
Speaker 2: able to go to it in like two seconds. So
Speaker 2: my nephew, he plays piano, Dylan, and he's from another
Speaker 2: another world. Yeah, he can. He could pick up anything
Speaker 2: and learn anything, and not just I always tell him
Speaker 2: to not don't stop, because he's doing pretty good. He's
Speaker 2: he's done a lot of records, he worked with a
Speaker 2: lot of people. And because he's so talented that you know,
Speaker 2: you could you could stop playing your main instrument. His
Speaker 2: main instrument is piano, but he plays guitar, drums, his
Speaker 2: his little brother Jaden, he plays bass. He's funky as hell.
Speaker 2: He he's been playing like Larry Grahams song since he
Speaker 2: was like nine years old. What and talking like Larry,
Speaker 2: acting like them. The whole thing is yeah, the whole thing.
Speaker 2: So you know, when you're in the industry, you just
Speaker 2: don't want to fall off the instrument that you love.
Speaker 2: And so I always tell him, like, are you practicing?
Speaker 2: You know, are you practicing? Don't don't stop because you
Speaker 2: got a record out with this person. This person keep playing.
Speaker 2: So I took some of my own advice and jumped
Speaker 2: on the piano. Looked on Google. Found this. This piano teacher,
Speaker 2: Kristen is the Tahanga pianos. I found it. I thought
Speaker 2: she was in Tahunga to Pega Canyon Pianos and she
Speaker 2: was actually in Seattle. So I like, have a screen here,
Speaker 2: I mean a camera here, a camera here, camera here
Speaker 2: on my upright piano in the back.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're zooming on that.
Speaker 2: I'm zooming yeah, and it's it's it's been really cool.
Speaker 2: So I haven't written any music, but when I started
Speaker 2: writing music, I think it's gonna be a little different.
Speaker 1: You have a whole new like bag to pull from.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure, yeah, Because now I'm playing like stylistic songs.
Speaker 2: I'm going over all the songs that I used to
Speaker 2: play some of the best writers or you know, piano players.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what do you like? What are the one
Speaker 1: what are the songs that stand out for you as well?
Speaker 1: The songs that you love growing up that that that
Speaker 1: are also like incredible piano songs.
Speaker 2: It's gonna sound redundant, but that's why I started listening
Speaker 2: to the Hawkins family because I felt like all those records,
Speaker 2: if I learned those records just almost everything I wanted
Speaker 2: to know. But then I would say, like, you know,
Speaker 2: Tom Bell and the Creed, you know very good piano songs,
Speaker 2: and it falls riding place with all like the Spinners
Speaker 2: and the Dell Phonix, the STYLEX, all those people, and
Speaker 2: then Earth Wind and Fire. I was definitely all over
Speaker 2: the Gratitude albums, the live album.
Speaker 1: Did you ever see them in the day.
Speaker 2: I didn't see the Gratitude tour, no, okay, but I
Speaker 2: saw Funk on the Ground. I saw Parliament. I saw
Speaker 2: Bernie Burrell play live. I saw Tower Power live. I
Speaker 2: saw Bob Marley and the Whalers, the Berkeley Greek.
Speaker 1: I don't think i've met anybody that's aw's. I met
Speaker 1: one person one time that had tickets and they didn't
Speaker 1: go for some reason. I was like, I did have tickets.
Speaker 2: I was just on a bike, riding a bike from
Speaker 2: East Oakland just to to Berkeley, just being some bad
Speaker 2: kids is riding so far from home, and we were
Speaker 2: just riding around and I heard this reggae music and
Speaker 2: my friends kept going on the and I stopped and
Speaker 2: I'm looking through the fence and I'm like, what is that?
Speaker 2: And I could see Bob Marley and and I just
Speaker 2: stayed there. I never left.
Speaker 1: Did you know Bob Marley at the time, I.
Speaker 2: Know who he was. I didn't know much about it.
Speaker 2: I knew who he was, but I didn't leave. I
Speaker 2: just stayed there by the fence. I watched the defence.
Speaker 2: That's that's incredible. Yeah, so I'm I'm a huge whalers,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean the base plan from Family Man
Speaker 2: is the naughtiest.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I like rhythm sections like brothers. Like the rhythm section
Speaker 2: with him and the Family Man and his brother on drums,
Speaker 2: it's the tightest drum section. I would say, I would
Speaker 2: put them neck in neck with with the James Brown
Speaker 2: rhythm section. Wow, it's different, but it's tight.
Speaker 1: That's the hell. That's a hell of a that's a
Speaker 1: hell of a I know, I'm gonna have to go
Speaker 1: back and listen for that specific Oh.
Speaker 2: Man, it's it's it's just crazy that and then I'll
Speaker 2: go to Verdein and Freddy. Yeah, you know those those
Speaker 2: are my rhythm sections, the Bob rhythm section, earth Wind
Speaker 2: and Fire rhythm section, and James and of course James jameson.
Speaker 1: James Yeah, right Motown in Motown. Yeah, you worked with
Speaker 1: earth Wind and Fire and with like when Maurice was
Speaker 1: still I did.
Speaker 2: I had a chance to work with Maurice and talked
Speaker 2: to Maurice White a lot.
Speaker 1: What was that like, because he's scary.
Speaker 2: Man. That was scary working with Maurice. I mean they
Speaker 2: all walked in the room, three of them, Philip Philip Philip,
Speaker 2: Philip Bailey, Maurice White, and Ralph Johnson. Yeah, they walked
Speaker 2: in the room and I was super nervous. But they're
Speaker 2: really nice and there's so much history. You could feel
Speaker 2: the history when they walk in the room. You could
Speaker 2: just feel that like like we just we bad were
Speaker 2: bad boys, like we bring it. Yeah, you know he
Speaker 2: was a band leader. You know, he was a band
Speaker 2: leader guy.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, what was the dynamic? How was how
Speaker 1: was Maurice's dynamic in the room with.
Speaker 2: He produced me? He produced me the producer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: Like when I was singing, I was singing a falsetto
Speaker 2: part and show me the way, and he told me
Speaker 2: to tell en and just kick the reverb a little
Speaker 2: bit higher. It's producing tip, damn. Yeah, from the best.
Speaker 1: Definitely from the best, especially for the like if it's
Speaker 1: a producing tip on a on a falset vocal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: come on, you know that solid advice? Did did you?
Speaker 1: Did you? Didn't? You didn't play? Did you? You never
Speaker 1: played live with them? Did you?
Speaker 2: I've never played live with with Earth the Fire, no doubt.
Speaker 2: I mean I would still love to do that now,
Speaker 2: but I mean it's still need Vernein is playing you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you can't. I mean that's the that's the back bone
Speaker 2: earth on guitar though, you know, if you're not moving. Nah,
Speaker 2: they just let me clap my hand. Maybe I could
Speaker 2: sing a part with Philip, but I'm definitely not. Then
Speaker 2: jump on a guitar, bass man, maybe a sound check, soundcheck,
Speaker 2: a couple of sound checks. I would like to play
Speaker 2: with with Earth Wind and Fire. And I got a
Speaker 2: chance to play with now Rogers and chic Wow for
Speaker 2: something at Apple. When was that maybe a year ago,
Speaker 2: a year something for something for some type of new
Speaker 2: headsphones or something. You know. I was like, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm definitely doing that. But it wasn't a live audience.
Speaker 1: I was it though.
Speaker 2: It was amazing because you know, but that words is right.
Speaker 2: This is my guy too. Yes, she dressed liked him.
Speaker 2: I did the whole thing. I had school boy glasses
Speaker 2: on the tweet jagged. I did the whole thing. Now
Speaker 2: I was looking at looking at me and saying, wow, man,
Speaker 2: this dude went all the way in and I'm like,
Speaker 2: of course, of course I did.
Speaker 1: Damn that must have been Bernard Edwards. Is ridiculous. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of all the base places we talked about today, I
Speaker 1: feel like he might be the most underappreciated.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, he's he's he's celebrated, though people do
Speaker 2: celebrate Bernard. I feel I even feel like Queen that
Speaker 2: I took a piece of another one by the dust
Speaker 2: is from good times.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: Boom boom another one. Boom boom, don't don't that was smart.
Speaker 2: That's a nice bite. That's a nice.
Speaker 1: Little give me, can't be mad?
Speaker 2: I love. I was like, oh, that's a nice bike.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it stands out in the catalog though, it was like,
Speaker 1: that's a that's it. How was tell me about the
Speaker 1: Beyonce sessions, man, or how the work on that came
Speaker 1: to be? Because I was you know, the singles were
Speaker 1: were great, sixteen Carriages to my favorite of the early singles,
Speaker 1: and I know you worked on both of those. But
Speaker 1: then when the album came out, I was kind of
Speaker 1: an American Uh uh what was the top? What's what's
Speaker 1: the topic? American Requiem came on, I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta really listen because.
Speaker 2: Well, they did a great job of like having the
Speaker 2: right people in the room. You know. I always tell
Speaker 2: people about Beyonce's uh her ear and her like. You know,
Speaker 2: decision making is the most important thing you could be
Speaker 2: as an artist. Somebody that tours, somebody that makes records,
Speaker 2: somebody who knows their audience. So if you know your audience,
Speaker 2: it's easy to have musicians in the room that you
Speaker 2: think can push forward what you're trying to do. And
Speaker 2: so for for me, you know, Dream was in the room,
Speaker 2: a lot of great musicians. So we took songs and
Speaker 2: I changed some songs around, you know, but then it
Speaker 2: was great things on the record already, So I just
Speaker 2: had a great It was almost like it was almost
Speaker 2: like the all star team, you know, with people that
Speaker 2: I didn't know, like the the banjo playing, you know,
Speaker 2: with you know, yeah, random Giddings, Rani Guinness, who like
Speaker 2: that record wouldn't be that record without her doing that.
Speaker 2: That is amazing, right, So I think that's I just
Speaker 2: I just think they a and already great. They had
Speaker 2: a great team, They had great people.
Speaker 1: Was that banjo part on there? But when you first
Speaker 1: heard the song no.
Speaker 2: No, but she knew like she wanted to have it
Speaker 2: on the record, and you always want to always I
Speaker 2: love working with people who know what they want. It
Speaker 2: makes producing fun, you know, are being a part of
Speaker 2: something fun.
Speaker 1: What was the what was the ask of you? Like?
Speaker 1: What was like? What what did you feel like you were?
Speaker 1: Why was Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think I was in the room because is I
Speaker 2: I take I'm coachable and I take instructions and I
Speaker 2: can I can do what you ask me to do.
Speaker 2: And I actually love what I do. And I love
Speaker 2: actually knowing that somebody is gonna you dish them a dime,
Speaker 2: they about to go dunk it. That's my inspiration for me.
Speaker 2: I think they know, like you know, I could be
Speaker 2: in a room and work with people, and it's it's
Speaker 2: more about the camaraderie of working with others, you know,
Speaker 2: and not being like I'm a producer instead of like no,
Speaker 2: we're in a room, like we have instruments and we
Speaker 2: it's time to get it done.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think that's why I was in the room
Speaker 2: because I can play in many genres.
Speaker 1: But you also played a lot of parts. So it's
Speaker 1: like when you win there with your set, like you're
Speaker 1: like musician, had on or producer like the dreams already,
Speaker 1: like how do you how do you balance that? So
Speaker 1: many people?
Speaker 2: Man, I'm only well, sometimes I'm in the room by myself,
Speaker 2: and some of the stuff I did here.
Speaker 1: Like they like this, sent you stuff and whole sending
Speaker 1: stuff too.
Speaker 2: That was already like Bodyguard was pretty much a a
Speaker 2: song that I did you know that you wrote that,
Speaker 2: wrote that alone?
Speaker 1: Because you do that, you're doing the count off Bodyguard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she kept the counting. Yeah, but I wasn't even
Speaker 2: going to like play that song. I was going through
Speaker 2: another song and she heard it and she said, what's that?
Speaker 2: She got a air like that, And that's why I said,
Speaker 2: not many artists could take a song like Bodyguard and
Speaker 2: say I like this song and I want to make
Speaker 2: a record. They wrote some different change some lyrics and
Speaker 2: did different things. But it's only maybe two people I
Speaker 2: know that takes some of the stuff that nobody would
Speaker 2: take from me. That's that's Beyonce now in D'Angelo wow and.
Speaker 1: Solange and right yeah, right, so lunch too.
Speaker 2: Right, that'll take some like I wouldn't even play some
Speaker 2: things for people because I know they might be like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's just way too like you know, but you could,
Speaker 2: you know, the great ones, the great ones want to
Speaker 2: they want to dive in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be right back with more from Rafael Saidik
Speaker 1: after the break. Here's the rest of my conversation with
Speaker 1: Rafael Sadik. He told me the story of Cranes in
Speaker 1: the Sky.
Speaker 2: Crans in the Sky was already eight years old. The
Speaker 2: music was and I was really singing something in mine
Speaker 2: it's what you do, it's a certain thing. Oh, that's
Speaker 2: what I was doing, something crazy like that. And when
Speaker 2: I mess the lunge. We were both doing these sixties
Speaker 2: records at first, and then we were gonna hook up,
Speaker 2: and I wanted her to write for me, with me,
Speaker 2: for that song, for me, for me, for your album. Right,
Speaker 2: So she had a copy of it, but I think
Speaker 2: it had my vocal on it. But then she wrote
Speaker 2: something for herself and it was years later, maybe a
Speaker 2: few years later, but it was already eight years old,
Speaker 2: and I didn't have a copy of it. I didn't
Speaker 2: have a clean copy.
Speaker 1: You gave her the actual like.
Speaker 2: We never had a copy. Wow. So when she was
Speaker 2: calling me asking me for a clean version with no lyrics,
Speaker 2: I didn't have it. So a good friend of my, Conrad,
Speaker 2: who lived up in Portland, as a videographer and he
Speaker 2: sometimes takes my songs and and sort of makes short films,
Speaker 2: and so I was talking to him about about he said,
Speaker 2: you know, I have a copy of it on a
Speaker 2: CD on a disc. So that's the only thing we had, because.
Speaker 1: You would have sent it to him just to that.
Speaker 1: Was it just so we could make a of a
Speaker 1: film with it, or I like a little.
Speaker 2: Short film shooting some friends and like, you know, just
Speaker 2: some stuff on the street.
Speaker 1: How the hell did he get on that list?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Conrad Montgomery, he's a he's a track and field coach.
Speaker 2: He's a theod friend of our rogers and he we
Speaker 2: run together. We run together. He taught me really how
Speaker 2: to how to run. He's a track and field guy,
Speaker 2: and he had it. And I said, the only only
Speaker 2: one I have is it's on It's on a disc,
Speaker 2: and so we that record is nothing separated. That's the
Speaker 2: record that came out.
Speaker 1: Wow, So you ripped it from that.
Speaker 2: She's just saying over the just put that in pro
Speaker 2: tools and sing over over top on the top of it. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's that's that's wild. So when it works, it works.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you don't even I mean we I think they
Speaker 2: compressed it and mixed it that way, like with compression
Speaker 2: and make it, you know, but pretty much it was
Speaker 2: you know, the bass was there, the drums was already there.
Speaker 2: Melotron is is that melotron right there?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 2: And this is it has worked so it kind of
Speaker 2: cracks and does some weird shit. So no melotron sounds
Speaker 2: like that melotron because of that. So I never get
Speaker 2: it fixed because of that. And but it was all
Speaker 2: on that record. It was not anything recorded. The only
Speaker 2: thing that that was recorded over was my nephew Dylan
Speaker 2: played He played another he played an acoustic h an
Speaker 2: upright piano or he played a grand py on top
Speaker 2: of it. Didn't Cilancha added some like crazy like bail
Speaker 2: was just like boom she added that. But everything else
Speaker 2: was pretty much already multi tracked and could we couldn't
Speaker 2: separate anything.
Speaker 1: Did she record that here with you or did she
Speaker 1: do it on her on her own?
Speaker 2: Did she? I think she recorded creams here? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's wild. That that's the origins man, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like that's a that's a that's
Speaker 1: a Grammy winning project man, that you just was like
Speaker 1: discarded with some track co. Yeah.
Speaker 2: You just have to make music, and to make music
Speaker 2: because I don't make music to to give to one,
Speaker 2: to give to anyone I give. I make music to
Speaker 2: sort of entertain myself because I love music that much
Speaker 2: that I just want to hear it if I come
Speaker 2: and if I come in the studio, I want to
Speaker 2: hear music. Sometimes I come to the studio and I
Speaker 2: don't even I don't even play any music. I just
Speaker 2: I might play Madden or something like the Arcade, the
Speaker 2: old one, like when Tom went like McNab was the quarterback.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, going back, Yeah so you played with Okay, yeah, McNab.
Speaker 2: I play McNabb and then taroll Owens is the receiver.
Speaker 2: He catches everything right out there.
Speaker 1: You don't play you don't play with with with the Raiders.
Speaker 2: Every blue Moon I played with the Raiders. The Raiders
Speaker 2: wasn't that good that year, Okay, But sometimes, you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes I play with the Reds.
Speaker 1: I am.
Speaker 2: I am definitely a Raiders fan. I'm a Raiders fan. No, no,
Speaker 2: don't get it twisted. But I just if I'm playing
Speaker 2: an arcade, I don't do it.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, you gotta go with the Eagles on
Speaker 1: that I got.
Speaker 2: I gotta go with the Eagles. Or I have to
Speaker 2: go with the best defense on that game. I would
Speaker 2: say somebody like Rick Ross will probably say, no, that's
Speaker 2: not true because I already's really good on the arcade.
Speaker 2: I would say Green Bay. I like to play with
Speaker 2: Green Bay Kansas City because they had Priest Holmes as
Speaker 2: a running back at the time. So I just like
Speaker 2: to play with the players to do special things.
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't know you're a video game guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I have a video game.
Speaker 1: You do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we may games. It's called Illphonic Wow, Illphonic with
Speaker 2: the Friday the thirteen Friday, thirteenth State Ghostbusters. So my
Speaker 2: engineer who recorded the Way I See It and and
Speaker 2: Jimmie Lee he mixed it, and Storm Rolling. His name
Speaker 2: is Chuck Brungard. So we started a video game company
Speaker 2: almost twelve thirteen years ago because we were in the business.
Speaker 2: We were just we were trying to like make records,
Speaker 2: and we couldn't fit the system of you know, we
Speaker 2: work on the record, they'd have somebody else mix it,
Speaker 2: and it was just getting kind of weird. So I
Speaker 2: came up with this idea to start a video game
Speaker 2: company because it was a joke about it. What's the
Speaker 2: death Jam game.
Speaker 1: It's a death jam game.
Speaker 2: It's a fight game.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It was The Rush, The Rush anyway, a friend worked
Speaker 2: for the Coming. It was all these rappers and it
Speaker 2: was a fight game. And I was like, I'm like,
Speaker 2: you gotta build me in the game. And my friends like,
Speaker 2: we don't put R and B people in the game.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I'm like, I'm gonna make my own game.
Speaker 2: And I'm called the Ghetto Golf and and we just laugh.
Speaker 2: And so when she left, my partner Chuck goes, you know,
Speaker 2: if you really want to start a game company, you know,
Speaker 2: that's what I do for I went to school for programming.
Speaker 2: I'm saying, let's do it. Let's call it ill Phonic
Speaker 2: because ill Matic is my favorite hip hop album, one
Speaker 2: of them. So I called it ill Phonic. And then
Speaker 2: maybe like the next month, we had like this test
Speaker 2: game of Ghetto Golf. And from there we started taking
Speaker 2: the publishers for about a year or two, and the
Speaker 2: next thing we were you know, I was at all
Speaker 2: the conference game conferences and I just kept put on
Speaker 2: the law because I felt like gamers don't really care
Speaker 2: about musicians having you know, having a game company. It's
Speaker 2: about the gamer. It's about you know, the game playoff.
Speaker 2: It's about them, it's not about me, it's not about Chuck.
Speaker 2: And so then we kept going. Then we moved the
Speaker 2: company to Denver, Colorado, and now it's in Colorado and
Speaker 2: it's in Tacoma. Wow, it's still it's active, active right now?
Speaker 1: What are you games you're developing?
Speaker 2: Wow? I always always blow this title, and they will
Speaker 2: kill me if I say this. I'm just not going
Speaker 2: to say it because one time I spoke on the
Speaker 2: game and I wasn't supposed to and it was like
Speaker 2: I just blew up the world or something.
Speaker 1: We don't we don't, don't got to go there. There.
Speaker 1: Should revive the death Jam game. That sounds incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a good games in it. Yeah, yeah, runs.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I can't think of the name of
Speaker 2: the game. But I love games. But I played more
Speaker 2: sports games than I do first person shooter games, which
Speaker 2: I really want to start playing more first person shooter games.
Speaker 2: I just you just got to put a lot of
Speaker 2: time into that, you know, like learning, I'm still like
Speaker 2: Call of Duty, I'm still getting blown up on the
Speaker 2: first stage. I'm like, you gotta keep keep going. I
Speaker 2: can't follow the I can't look at it. I can't
Speaker 2: look at it and follow it. Yeah, so I think
Speaker 2: I should just get better on piano instead of.
Speaker 1: That's the better That's a better move man.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 1: That's about the time I got out of GANS. I
Speaker 1: was like, well, I gotta spend like you know, I
Speaker 1: got to train for the game. I'm like, man, I
Speaker 1: can't really be involved with this.
Speaker 2: I can't catch any passes on like Madden the New
Speaker 2: Like it's just it's like just it just bounce off
Speaker 2: my fingers. I'm like, is there a button? I'm always
Speaker 2: asking kids, is there a button that the fingers do
Speaker 2: like this to catch the ball because I can't. I
Speaker 2: could do a short pass or screen, but if I'm
Speaker 2: going for a bomb, it's like.
Speaker 1: You gotta go to training camp, man. Yeah, it's too
Speaker 1: much time.
Speaker 2: That's too much time.
Speaker 1: You know. I want to ask you. Speaking of you
Speaker 1: brought up Omadic made me think of the Chronic because
Speaker 1: I always think of those two albums in my mind
Speaker 1: for some reason, different years, but just incredible debut rap albums. Right,
Speaker 1: but Chronic two still still d r E still and
Speaker 1: you did still Ray right, Yeah, on inadvantage. It feels
Speaker 1: like a speaking of like a.
Speaker 2: Good that was a great bike. Yeah, of course. I
Speaker 2: mean I'm a huge Dre fan. You know. His name
Speaker 2: is Dre, Mine is Ray, And I was like, hmm,
Speaker 2: you know, Dre always have those lyrics and this is
Speaker 2: the motherfucking thinks I get. I kind of feel like
Speaker 2: Dre's sometimes so that's how you No, not really, but
Speaker 2: I love that lyric and some motherfucking thinks I get.
Speaker 2: But when that blink flink clink clink clink, I was like,
Speaker 2: let's turn that into like a lotaby, like a pretty song.
Speaker 2: That the hardest song that everybody's boo boom boom. I'm like,
Speaker 2: let's turn that to sink. I'm coming bump too, you
Speaker 2: you know. I'm like, let's flip it, let's put it
Speaker 2: on his head and let's change it. I'm coming bump
Speaker 2: to you wear something see through you know. Just happened
Speaker 2: just really fast. Yeah, but that was definitely inspired by Did.
Speaker 1: You hear from Dre on that?
Speaker 2: Nah?
Speaker 1: I bet he appreciates it though.
Speaker 2: Oh no, definitely definitely got to Like, you know, Dre
Speaker 2: is a music guy, you know.
Speaker 1: And you'll both both worked with Don Robinson.
Speaker 2: We both did Yeah, Vogue, we both did Yeah. We
Speaker 2: both have stories. Okay working with good stories good stories.
Speaker 1: Can you share what you can? It's the one you can.
Speaker 1: Did you know in Vogue from Oakland?
Speaker 2: I did?
Speaker 1: They are I feel like.
Speaker 2: I mean beautiful, some of the nicest people, and we
Speaker 2: sort of came from the same camp with Denzel Foster
Speaker 2: and Tommy Tommy Thomas McElroy.
Speaker 1: Which did they did I got five on it?
Speaker 2: They did, I got five on it. They did lean
Speaker 2: on me with Club Club Nouveau, they did, I mean
Speaker 2: situation situation number nine for Club Nouveau and that's just
Speaker 2: five on it. But they did Engine number nine. They
Speaker 2: just uh they and they signed us. Came the Tony's
Speaker 2: went through tough enough production, they found us, they signed us.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that they're responsible for they had the
Speaker 2: reason why I'm sitting here talking to you.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I still talk to him. I mean I talked
Speaker 2: to him pretty much, you know, a couple of times
Speaker 2: a month. You know, Denny. Denny's a golfer. He plays golf,
Speaker 2: so he tries to get me out there and playing golf.
Speaker 2: I'm not good, but I'm trying, and Tommy is just uh, Tommy.
Speaker 2: Tommy started, he started fighting. He became a fighter. He
Speaker 2: always had he was always a martial arts guy, and
Speaker 2: then I think he became what he called he was
Speaker 2: a martial arts fighter.
Speaker 1: He was fighting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he started doing that. He said, he got hit
Speaker 2: really hard and he stopped.
Speaker 1: That's a good reason to stop. That's why I never
Speaker 1: started with that.
Speaker 2: And yeah and yeah, but those guys I'm really responsible for,
Speaker 2: you know. So that's how your career, that's how we
Speaker 2: got to Mercury. Wow, that's how we got there. To
Speaker 2: those guys, and I'm I'm lucky to have them in
Speaker 2: my in my you know, my career, because I learned
Speaker 2: a lot. But just by listening to them.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Man. How how was the tour with the Tony's.
Speaker 2: The tour, but the Tonys was amazing. It was definitely
Speaker 2: a bucket list. We you know, we took the phones.
Speaker 2: I took the phones.
Speaker 1: You took the phones away from from the audience.
Speaker 2: And because I wanted the audience to have a good
Speaker 2: time the way that I've seen like the old Jays.
Speaker 2: I didn't have a phone when I was a kid,
Speaker 2: and That's where I learned. I feel like not having
Speaker 2: a phone, and you know, and you're actually sitting with
Speaker 2: your friend or your mate and you you're singing, they're
Speaker 2: dancing with each other, and you know, you're giving people
Speaker 2: a moment of freedom that they don't that they don't
Speaker 2: they don't know that they actually lost you know, nobody knows,
Speaker 2: you know, were attached to our phones.
Speaker 1: No one remembers life before a phone man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, And you're not actually doing anything with
Speaker 2: the videos anyway, Like you just want to show your
Speaker 2: friends that you were at the show. But it's better
Speaker 2: that you watched the show and it's entirety like black,
Speaker 2: we rehearsed, you know. So it was. It was. It
Speaker 2: was amazing. Though the songs are fun as single. It
Speaker 2: was great to be around my brother and Tim and
Speaker 2: and you know, introduced some new musicians like Sharky who
Speaker 2: play guitar for us, who helped me out tremendously to
Speaker 2: put the show together.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: It was amazing. It was having an out of body,
Speaker 2: like an out of body experience like more of like
Speaker 2: I feel like I felt my ancestors talking to me,
Speaker 2: especially in Mens Memphis. Was this we played at this
Speaker 2: in this venue that just felt it was packed, like
Speaker 2: it was like it was like black people from the
Speaker 2: front to the back. And we haven't played I haven't
Speaker 2: played the audience with all black people in a long
Speaker 2: time really, because my audience is very diverse, you know,
Speaker 2: over the years.
Speaker 1: As a solo artist, you feel like as.
Speaker 2: A solo artist, it's just got very diverse. But this
Speaker 2: this audience was black from the front to the back.
Speaker 2: Man in the South was everywhere. It was a few
Speaker 2: different people in different places, but it just felt like
Speaker 2: this whole because nobody had the phone. You could you
Speaker 2: could look at me and I could look at you.
Speaker 2: So it's probably different for artists. Really doesn't don't know
Speaker 2: how that feels anymore to have a phone, to have
Speaker 2: a you know, five thousand people looking right at you
Speaker 2: and not.
Speaker 1: A phone, and you're you're the main main thing.
Speaker 2: So I think we we we share something that we
Speaker 2: both haven't had in a long time. So it brought
Speaker 2: out this energy of these spirits and energies that I
Speaker 2: felt like most of the time I was I felt
Speaker 2: like I felt like it didn't even happen. It was
Speaker 2: just so you know, every moment we could take our
Speaker 2: time you could walk off. We had an intermission. People
Speaker 2: were very patient. You know, it felt like it was
Speaker 2: like a house party, like we were all together in
Speaker 2: this house party, and it was just everybody at the
Speaker 2: good time. They were talking, they were hugging, he was kissing,
Speaker 2: and sometimes the audience wasn't even looking at me. They was,
Speaker 2: you know, talking to their girl and she's talking to
Speaker 2: her men. They wasn't. They was just enjoying it, thinking
Speaker 2: about the times when they heard this music for the
Speaker 2: first time, and everybody was sort of reflecting on they
Speaker 2: may have lost people in the family, and it had
Speaker 2: this real deep feeling that I just never I never felt.
Speaker 2: And so it was funny when there was anybody of
Speaker 2: any other, you know, if they're somebody whiter some at
Speaker 2: the shows, it almost felt like a Malcolm X rally.
Speaker 2: It felt like it was this Cia. It felt like
Speaker 2: a movie. I'm like, this is sit out of my market.
Speaker 2: But but then as we got closer to San Francisco,
Speaker 2: it got more diverse. Okay, people came out.
Speaker 1: You got the Paramount in.
Speaker 2: We played the Paramount and then we played I Forgot.
Speaker 2: We played in San Francisco some.
Speaker 1: Hall, Wharf Field do you play the war Field.
Speaker 2: Didn't play the war field. We played. They played inside.
Speaker 2: It was raining hard outside. But yo, I've never played
Speaker 2: the Paramount ever. This is my That was my first
Speaker 2: time playing the Paramount, and it was really good to
Speaker 2: bring it home. We brought it home.
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful theater in Oakland. It was beautiful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was so the experience was it was amazing.
Speaker 2: I just felt like we needed to give people, you know,
Speaker 2: give it back to them one more time, something that
Speaker 2: they gave to us. They gave us the gift to
Speaker 2: to like our music and to like what we were
Speaker 2: doing because we didn't know what we were doing this,
Speaker 2: you know, just kids making music with a record deal,
Speaker 2: and we were able to put our some test, some
Speaker 2: tests of the time, music that people still listen to.
Speaker 1: I mean, how did it feel for you guys to
Speaker 1: do it, because because I mean, I feel like and
Speaker 1: I guess there's two ways of thinking about it. When
Speaker 1: you guys broke up, if that's what y'all want to
Speaker 1: call it. After House of Music, I feel like you
Speaker 1: guys kind of went out on top, like the House
Speaker 1: of Music, Like I love all the records. House music
Speaker 1: is like falling away from me my favorite record of y'all's,
Speaker 1: and it's like, damn, there's probably so much more y'all
Speaker 1: could have done. Or maybe it was the right time.
Speaker 1: I don't so, I don't know, but y'all left like
Speaker 1: on top for sure. Yeah we did, I mean so
Speaker 1: to get together, like you know, twenty years later, Like
Speaker 1: how did that feel for you? Guys?
Speaker 2: It felt because we rehearsed right in this room. We
Speaker 2: rehearsed here, and it felt good to see everybody in
Speaker 2: the room and you know, like playing those songs live,
Speaker 2: no no back tracks, just it felt really good. It
Speaker 2: was more for me, like the nieces and nephew as
Speaker 2: family members too, you know, and from my father, who's
Speaker 2: not loving anymore. He would have wanted us to do that,
Speaker 2: and I really wanted to. He said something to me
Speaker 2: before about you know, how to look at things, you know,
Speaker 2: no matter what you think they are, how you look
Speaker 2: at them, and you know, and you how you want
Speaker 2: to be perceived. And I wanted to be perceived as
Speaker 2: I wanted to get people what they wanted because when
Speaker 2: we were younger, Yeah, we blew it. We we broke up,
Speaker 2: you know, we we we didn't we didn't we didn't
Speaker 2: run it. I left, you know, I left the group.
Speaker 2: But it was the perfect time for me to leave
Speaker 2: the group. I mean, I didn't want to be a member.
Speaker 2: I always have these stories about Eddie Kendricks, one of
Speaker 2: my favorite people, you know, and he it was hard
Speaker 2: for him to leave the Temptations. I'm guessing right. It's
Speaker 2: such a big group, such big staple, stable songs or
Speaker 2: and like you know Richerally leaving the Commodorees. You know,
Speaker 2: he had big, huge compositions, and I didn't want to
Speaker 2: get stuck being a just a group guy. I felt
Speaker 2: like I had more to offer and I had ideas
Speaker 2: of how I wanted to do things. And I wasn't
Speaker 2: like the band leader guy who could tell people, you know,
Speaker 2: this is how it's going to go, just do what
Speaker 2: I say. So that was better for me to step
Speaker 2: off and just and just try and you know, and see.
Speaker 1: What I was going to do.
Speaker 2: I wanted to work with other people. I just wanted
Speaker 2: to play music, you know, and see if I could
Speaker 2: copy these these legends that I loved.
Speaker 1: He didn't feel like you could do both, like you
Speaker 1: didn't feel like that was.
Speaker 2: Nah nah no, I just I just came home one
Speaker 2: day and was like, just buy some Seatson tickets to
Speaker 2: the Sacramento Kings. And I did, and I met Brian Grant,
Speaker 2: who became one of my best friends to this day.
Speaker 2: And I didn't want to, you know, he was I
Speaker 2: had a detail shop up there, and so the Kings
Speaker 2: cars will come there, different cars will come there. People
Speaker 2: will come there.
Speaker 1: But so you got the season tickets just as like
Speaker 1: A I can't go. I can't, I can't book nothing
Speaker 1: because I no.
Speaker 2: I just I got When I decided I was leaving
Speaker 2: the group, I just decided I just moved the Sacramentos
Speaker 2: new and Sacramento bought this house. There was nothing to do,
Speaker 2: and I was like, it's not shit to doing Sacramento,
Speaker 2: but louts a strip bar or lots a game.
Speaker 1: So I did both and season tickets.
Speaker 2: No, not season tickets, but not season tickets. But I
Speaker 2: mean that's where I was like, you just hear a
Speaker 2: lot of Metallica and Sacramental strip bars.
Speaker 1: Oh man, that's dude, that's always a Metallica.
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh yeah, this is cool Metallica. There.
Speaker 2: Nikki's coming up right now.
Speaker 1: Guys.
Speaker 2: The Metallican truck drivers and there was a Sacramento Kings
Speaker 2: and then and so people was asking Brian for tickets
Speaker 2: all the time. You know, he had a family's me,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get my own tickets, and that's what I did.
Speaker 2: I ended up watching more basketball, watching more sports, and
Speaker 2: and then I only worked on two artists at that
Speaker 2: time was Diangelove's Lady and Total Kissing You Puffy scrowl HM.
Speaker 2: Other than that, I didn't do much work for a
Speaker 2: couple few years.
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting to you you compared because like
Speaker 1: you compare yourself to Eddie Kendricks too, because there are
Speaker 1: some times listening to Tony Tony to that when you
Speaker 1: when you and your brother like trade vocals, it's almost
Speaker 1: like a Rough and Kendrick kind of like just the
Speaker 1: way y'all sound sometimes, you know.
Speaker 2: What I mean, because I always felt like, you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes I'm watching sports shows, sometimes people scream too much,
Speaker 2: like if I'm watching, if I'm watching I'm watching First Take,
Speaker 2: I call First Take First Baptist cause it sounds like church.
Speaker 2: It sounded like like tachers. They all sound like preachers.
Speaker 2: But I love the show. I love the show. And
Speaker 2: then I listened to I'll go to like, uh, it's
Speaker 2: it called uh, it's called first things or something.
Speaker 1: First things, first thing, first first, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Their voices are too high. It's just like no, and
Speaker 2: it's just irritates the hell out of me. And then
Speaker 2: let's get bayless. I can't take skips at all. But
Speaker 2: who was? No, who was on the show? I like
Speaker 2: the Skip show Wayne on the receiver. Oh you're talking
Speaker 2: about You're just blanking out on his name. That's terrible
Speaker 2: because he's my favorite guy.
Speaker 1: He just joined the last year.
Speaker 2: But I can't.
Speaker 1: It's great, great commentator. I can't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he makes Skip show good. But I'm really
Speaker 2: calling herd guy.
Speaker 1: You're calling her guy. I know. I can't deal with
Speaker 1: I feel about calling I like Skip. Bas reminds me
Speaker 1: like wrestling, like.
Speaker 2: Colin is right because you know why, because Colin got
Speaker 2: it right. Because Colin is no debating. He'll ask the question,
Speaker 2: he debates himself. No, but yeah, but when he brings
Speaker 2: he brings on great guests.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, and he doesn't if I.
Speaker 2: Ask you a question and then when you answer the question,
Speaker 2: he goes to the next subject. He don't debate you
Speaker 2: like that. He doesn't debate you, right, So back to
Speaker 2: me and Dwayne. Yes, I think my voice is irritating sometimes, right,
Speaker 2: So it was great to have me and Dwayne going
Speaker 2: back and forth. And that's the way I see those
Speaker 2: talk shows, those game shows. You need different people with
Speaker 2: different voices because some voice might irritate you. My voices
Speaker 2: is high and sometimes people it's it could be irritating.
Speaker 2: It's too high, it's too But when Dwayne comes in,
Speaker 2: it just levels me off and gives me the confidence.
Speaker 2: You know. It's like, I don't want to say this,
Speaker 2: but like you Michael and Michael and Jermaine, it wor right. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so those talk shows. Yeah, I think Colin is the
Speaker 2: man bro cool?
Speaker 1: Can I can't? Man? You like skip over? Collin skips
Speaker 1: funny to me, skip just crack. It's like, it's so ridiculous.
Speaker 1: He's like Trump almost yeah.
Speaker 2: But okay, but.
Speaker 1: Listen, you're not wrong, you're right. But here's the thing, Like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I might regret putting this on on Wax, but Trump
Speaker 1: is actually kind of funny. It's just that he's just
Speaker 1: that he's.
Speaker 2: Like Bush is funnier.
Speaker 1: Come on, they're both pretty funny.
Speaker 2: No, he's just Trump is just ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Trump. Well, you know what's ridiculous? This really ain't funny.
Speaker 1: It's kind of fun. It's in the dark way that
Speaker 1: you think about George Bush started the Iraq War, all
Speaker 1: those veterans people, Dad Main terrible and now he's just
Speaker 1: sitting there at home painting and he's good. Bro, Like what.
Speaker 2: Because now he's painting, Like look at this motherfucker. You
Speaker 2: guys got out? Yeah, Like, whatever choice do you have?
Speaker 2: Like most people I know, like a voting and who
Speaker 2: wants to vote Trump? If you wouldn't think and everybody
Speaker 2: want to save money on taxes, but I want to
Speaker 2: save money on taxes too. But I'm like, if that's
Speaker 2: gonna be lose the money, I.
Speaker 1: Would rather lose money than yeah. Yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: But Skip is definitely Trump.
Speaker 1: He is, but he's not trying to run the country.
Speaker 1: That's what I appreciate about it, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: just trying to push.
Speaker 2: Comes in with a ready package, like you say something,
Speaker 2: he's gonna combat it. I feel like they have them,
Speaker 2: you could. I guess I can see their daily meetings.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna take this position, you're gonna take that one.
Speaker 2: That's why I like you, well, Colin. You know, there's
Speaker 2: a meeting, but it's only one person.
Speaker 1: So Colin just reminds me of the guy in the
Speaker 1: classroom that's doing too much, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like he's ruining everything for you.
Speaker 2: It's like, you know what I like about Colin? I
Speaker 2: know how he got him the sports thing. But the
Speaker 2: funny thing about Colin I want to find out why
Speaker 2: does he hate Aaron Rodgers so much?
Speaker 1: That's a great question.
Speaker 2: It's funny though. He'll give him a break, but he'd
Speaker 2: be like, you know, he just kills him. I think
Speaker 2: I watched him so he just to watch him kill people.
Speaker 2: But he has like really, I will say this, he
Speaker 2: has really good tips for for being professional. If you
Speaker 2: listen to him. Oh yeah, definitely, like he definitely.
Speaker 1: Okay, you gotta I'm gonna move to Manhattan Beach. Try
Speaker 1: to try to link up with him. He maybe you
Speaker 1: can mentor me on how.
Speaker 2: To because look at this podcast company is Draymond Green?
Speaker 1: Yeah wait, no, that's it is that his?
Speaker 2: That's his?
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: Dude comes on and be like, you know he gave
Speaker 2: dream on the platform.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a beast man.
Speaker 1: He's the beach. But skip. You got stephen A. Shannon
Speaker 1: Wayne our boy who we can't think of right now.
Speaker 1: He's put people on too.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, I try, like I try. I skipped
Speaker 2: my stations and I go along skip. I'm like, nah,
Speaker 2: skips like skips, just like making people mad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love it. I love that.
Speaker 2: About It's a different structure, different folks.
Speaker 1: That's right, That's right, that's it. I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: bouncing everywhere. But it's just like so cool.
Speaker 2: One more thing about skip, please more thing. His name
Speaker 2: is perfect. You should just skip his show exactly.
Speaker 1: That's the tack and skip me, skip skip that, just
Speaker 1: skip this Bayless man. Yeah, y'all went down to UH
Speaker 1: to record house of music. Y'all went down to Yeah.
Speaker 2: The house of music was the Sons and so was
Speaker 2: the Sons and Soul. Y'all do think it was Sons
Speaker 2: and so?
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, pre internet, Like, how did you know about
Speaker 1: this studio down and how did y'all know to.
Speaker 2: Get Like we found out from some of our training brothers,
Speaker 2: Trent Gums and Desmond Gums, some guys. I was in
Speaker 2: the Trent Gums. I was in a high school band
Speaker 2: with him, and he's trendy. And he told us about
Speaker 2: the studio they need, They needed people to come down
Speaker 2: there and recorded. They gave us a good they gave
Speaker 2: us a good price to come record the music. And
Speaker 2: we stayed there for three months. Wow, stayed there for
Speaker 2: three months. I think that's the first time I had
Speaker 2: row ti. This is a sad part. It's the first
Speaker 2: time I ever taste a mangle.
Speaker 1: Really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was in Trinida.
Speaker 1: That's probably was a good mango.
Speaker 2: The best man who ever had my life. Wow, And
Speaker 2: it was beautiful.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: It's a beautiful place, beautiful music, beautiful food. And we
Speaker 2: had almost five or six rooms to record in huge
Speaker 2: orchestra room. It was It was a great time.
Speaker 1: Was it like? That?
Speaker 2: Was?
Speaker 1: That was how many people? So it was you guys,
Speaker 1: what else did you guys go down with?
Speaker 2: We brought we might have brought like ten people and
Speaker 2: we left. We left. It was only maybe three people
Speaker 2: we left. Everybody wanted to leave except us.
Speaker 1: Wowe, it seems like an incredible Do you guys have
Speaker 1: any footage at that time?
Speaker 2: I don't think we filmed anything. We're the worst. We
Speaker 2: weren't the Beatles. We didn't dock how you know. See
Speaker 2: The Beatles have a documentary that came out maybe from
Speaker 2: like forty years ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and it's like literally it's like, yeah, they're
Speaker 1: never off camera. Yeah yeah, I mean I just yeah,
Speaker 1: it's pretty I guess that makes sense that it was
Speaker 1: Sons of Soul because it feels like that's like, really
Speaker 1: there's an energy on that album, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Sons of Soul was like, yeah, it was definitely
Speaker 2: a training right slow wine, Slow Wine, Yeah, slow Wine.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful. I mean, like the rainforest. It would be
Speaker 2: like just in the daytime, just to eating dinner and
Speaker 2: and just just hard rain. It's just coming down, you
Speaker 2: know because the windows are open. It's a they loved
Speaker 2: the good life out there.
Speaker 1: I think I wanted to ask you, just going back
Speaker 1: to Beyonce, your brother Dwayne brought Destiny's Child to Oakland
Speaker 1: like before they live up right. Yeah, So it's like
Speaker 1: did you did you like, yeah, can you tell that
Speaker 1: story if you know it? And then did you know
Speaker 1: Beyonce at that time?
Speaker 2: No, I didn't know. I didn't know Beyonce at that time.
Speaker 2: I actually was in La at the time, or I
Speaker 2: was in Sacramento and then I moved to La So
Speaker 2: I missed that whole thing. I wasn't around it at all. Wow, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I know. I know. He had him through another guy
Speaker 2: named Alonzo Jackson. A Lonzo Jackson is a guy we
Speaker 2: were I was in a band with two and Dwane
Speaker 2: was in a band with Lonzo Jackson's uncle. So we
Speaker 2: were sort of like the kids band to that band.
Speaker 2: And so. But there's also another lady who Lonzo matt
Speaker 2: So he he met justin shout through this lady. She
Speaker 2: ended up passing away, and then Lonzo brought the girls
Speaker 2: to Duane.
Speaker 1: Did you hear from him about it? Like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: got these.
Speaker 2: I mean he was working with a lot of people
Speaker 2: at the time, He's working with Alicia Keys. After that
Speaker 2: he had his own label. He was working a lot
Speaker 2: of people. But like I said, I wasn't around for
Speaker 2: any of it. I didn't know any of the artists.
Speaker 1: Do you guys get along or is that not?
Speaker 2: Like no, we get along, but we get along. We're
Speaker 2: just different. We're just different. And you know, I mean
Speaker 2: growing up heles my you know, my child, my I
Speaker 2: don't I wanted to be around them all the time.
Speaker 2: It was a sort of an age gap there and
Speaker 2: once you get it, once you get a record deal,
Speaker 2: everybody start having the home to the friends, you know.
Speaker 2: So and I was still enamborant with the trick that
Speaker 2: I was. I was in the business, I was making records.
Speaker 2: You know. It was like something that was really a
Speaker 2: surprise to me, you know, because I'm pretty much wanted
Speaker 2: to be like the assignment to play for people, So
Speaker 2: I was too busy figuring this out and how not
Speaker 2: to be a failure and what we said we were doing.
Speaker 2: So I pretty much you know, it was trying to
Speaker 2: you know, talk to to as many people as I
Speaker 2: could to learn a little bit more.
Speaker 1: There was like a five year maybe five maybe six
Speaker 1: year gap between house and music and instant vintage.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't know because there's no gaps for me
Speaker 2: because I'm always playing music. I'm always making records, so
Speaker 2: they're just not coming out, okay.
Speaker 1: But so there wasn't like when you left, like this
Speaker 1: feel of urgency of like I got to get something
Speaker 1: out established myself as now you did the song for like,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: For different people, it should have been some urgency, but
Speaker 2: I didn't.
Speaker 1: It's all worked out. I was just curious.
Speaker 2: No, no, it should have been some urgency, but I didn't.
Speaker 2: I wasn't. I wasn't there like that. I was like,
Speaker 2: you know, like I said, it was football, basketball, music,
Speaker 2: video games, the new guitars, watching this person do that,
Speaker 2: nieces and nephews, and I was nephew was playing, you know,
Speaker 2: don't want to play basketball, so I would, you know,
Speaker 2: fly him to Domingus from Sacramento to play in the league.
Speaker 2: But the Pump Brothers and I was sort of like
Speaker 2: helping my nieces and nephews getting good schools. And that
Speaker 2: was part of it too.
Speaker 1: You could have become like a sports age or something.
Speaker 1: You could have like, you know, there's a there's another
Speaker 1: there's another path you can.
Speaker 2: I should tell my buddy, like I told Brian one time.
Speaker 2: He wasn't doing that good. He well, his points was low,
Speaker 2: and I just went to him one day. I was like, man,
Speaker 2: so tell me something. I said. If they come to
Speaker 2: you and say, you know they're gonna fire you, I didn't.
Speaker 2: I said they're gonna fire The GM is gonna be
Speaker 2: there for a long time. You probably get fired first,
Speaker 2: like it's it's you, then it's the coach. Then it's
Speaker 2: the gym. That's how I go, right. He like yeah,
Speaker 2: he said, okay, I hear you. He went and he
Speaker 2: got like he had. He got about what hit about
Speaker 2: twenty he had about seventeen rebounds and that night and
Speaker 2: he called me, he's like, you see the game. I'm
Speaker 2: like yeah, he said, yeah, he said, I won't to
Speaker 2: hear some records.
Speaker 1: You're a clutch producer man. Yeah, anything, Yeah, Charlie Ray.
Speaker 1: That's on Charlie Ray. Yeah, where did that guitar part come?
Speaker 2: Well, it came from me trying to be in my
Speaker 2: funkadelic you know, d dum dum and it's like the
Speaker 2: Charlie Ray's dum dum m m damm doom. It's like
Speaker 2: a funkadelic dream.
Speaker 1: It's such a almost sounds like grateful deadish, like it's
Speaker 1: so like it's just so I don't know that anyone.
Speaker 2: I do have a lot of grateful dead type of
Speaker 2: music that I haven't put out, what just like instrumental
Speaker 2: stuff that yeah, yeah, yeah, I did.
Speaker 1: I did like it.
Speaker 2: So my album before I did Jimmy Lee, I had
Speaker 2: this whole other record that felt like Charlie Ray. And
Speaker 2: then I started thinking about my brother and just all
Speaker 2: this and some friends about drug addiction, and then I
Speaker 2: just jumped off and got on this whole other wave.
Speaker 2: And but I did have these records that then I'm
Speaker 2: gonna put together. It's more instrumental stuff. Vocals happened, but
Speaker 2: maybe like after two minutes in the record, what Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what that's the stuff I love. But you know,
Speaker 2: I could do it now because I'm not I'm not
Speaker 2: really in the record I'm not. I don't think I've
Speaker 2: ever been in a record business. I think I've been
Speaker 2: a friend of the brand. That's my thing, A friend
Speaker 2: of the brand, A friend of really yeah, the friend
Speaker 2: of the brand. I got that from like New Ballats.
Speaker 2: I did this thing with somebody and instead of having
Speaker 2: an ambassadors, they have my half somebody and a commercial
Speaker 2: and it's like a friend of the brand. It's not
Speaker 2: an ambassador. When I heard that, turnos like it. Oh
Speaker 2: that that suits me just fine, because that's what I
Speaker 2: felt like I've That's what I felt like I've been
Speaker 2: and I'm a friend of the brand, which means I
Speaker 2: really really love it. Yeah, I can call myself a
Speaker 2: friend of the brand.
Speaker 1: Did you is that because you don't necessarily don't want
Speaker 1: to be fully in it, like because you I'm sure
Speaker 1: you could be.
Speaker 2: I mean, no, I think I want to be fully
Speaker 2: in it. But I just want to, you know, dip
Speaker 2: off and do regular shit, you know, and not. I
Speaker 2: don't need to have ten celebrity friends and hang out
Speaker 2: with them. You know, I don't need to be talking
Speaker 2: about celebrity friends all day. I need to just you know,
Speaker 2: I'm walking and you know I'm wanting to bite. I'm
Speaker 2: just doing things that you know, my friends are. I'm
Speaker 2: still friends with my friends from third grade.
Speaker 1: Damn.
Speaker 2: You know I still talk to them on the phone.
Speaker 1: Wow. You know.
Speaker 2: I took some of my friends lyrics and put in
Speaker 2: the song really, a song that he used to always sing.
Speaker 2: And then I haven't seen him in twenty five years.
Speaker 2: When he saw me, he's like, you sing my lyric
Speaker 2: in the song?
Speaker 1: Well, lyrics? What song?
Speaker 2: It's not called Ford to love you? I will see
Speaker 2: we stand by your like a tree. Yeah, anyone to
Speaker 2: try to move me. But he had got it from Marvin.
Speaker 2: Wow that but I didn't know. But we will be
Speaker 2: on the street hanging out. He would be like, I'll
Speaker 2: stand by your lack a tree. He always say that.
Speaker 2: So my first record, his name is Rodney. He called him.
Speaker 2: We got Rodney Smith, and he when he saw him,
Speaker 2: he was like, He's like, tell him Ray it was
Speaker 2: all our other friends. He said, tell him he already knew.
Speaker 2: I said, tell him yep, I said, I took those
Speaker 2: legs stand by you like he already knew.
Speaker 1: Cole busted. Yeah, tell him that. Oh man, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: circle back because this is one thing we dropped, which
Speaker 1: was we started talking about the secret track and then
Speaker 1: how did that we got off on it? Because that
Speaker 1: Larry Graham one is my my favorite, But how did
Speaker 1: that happen? When did that? Like?
Speaker 2: I think I started doing it doing it because I
Speaker 2: think Prince when I heard hello, how are you? It
Speaker 2: was at the end of the record, and I've heard
Speaker 2: maybe one other person do that, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I wonder if I just like let the record go
Speaker 2: off and for like a minute or two minute and
Speaker 2: a half, what it's scared the hell out of people
Speaker 2: up there in the house and the record pops. I
Speaker 2: don't want to scare people, but I just thought, like,
Speaker 2: you know this, this would be a thing that I
Speaker 2: could start and I can continue to do it. And
Speaker 2: I'm actually gonna put out some vinyl pretty soon of
Speaker 2: previous stuff, previous stuff, and I'm store like the Vinyl
Speaker 2: Club started putting on vinyl.
Speaker 1: Put the put the Grateful Dead project down.
Speaker 2: Well, now I'm definitely gonna do that.
Speaker 1: I'll buy that on vinyl, the gatefold define.
Speaker 2: I'm a vinyl head, you know.
Speaker 1: Man cool Well and Raphael, thank you so much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you, Thanks so much, Raael for havings out there.
Speaker 1: Who's beautiful Los Angeles Studio To hear some of our
Speaker 1: favorite Rafael Sadiek songs. Check out a playlist at broken
Speaker 1: Record podcast dot comic. Subscribe to our YouTube channel at
Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast, where you can
Speaker 1: find all of our new episodes. You can follow us
Speaker 1: on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced and
Speaker 1: edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Marek Sandler
Speaker 1: and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Toler. Broken Record
Speaker 1: is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this
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Speaker 1: any beats? I'm justin Richmond,