1 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you 8 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is 9 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with 10 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much 11 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: for joining me for session three twenty five of the 12 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: Therapy from Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our 13 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: conversation after a word from our sponsors. The reviews for 14 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: Sisterhood Heels are rolling in and I simply cannot stop 15 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: smiling at the hot girl books on Instagram shared finish 16 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: reading this warm hug of a book last night, and 17 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: while it made me want to hug my sister friends 18 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 1: so bad, Sisterhood Heels is a beautiful guide on how 19 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: we as black women can use our community and friends 20 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: to aid in our healing process. Thank you so much 21 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: for the beautiful review. 22 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 2: Have you grabbed your copy yet? Get one for yourself 23 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 2: and a friend at Sisterhoodheels dot com. It's sex positive September, 24 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: and in celebration, we're diving back into our catalog. So 25 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 2: when Doctor Lex Brown James joined us to discuss Black 26 00:01:55,600 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: women's sexuality, agency and pleasure. When this episode was initially released, 27 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 2: Cardi b and Meg the Sallion had just dropped Wop 28 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 2: and the singles set the Internet on fire. Well, Meg 29 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,839 Speaker 2: and Cardi are back, this time with another hit, Bongos, 30 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 2: a sex positive anthem that is just perfect for sex 31 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 2: positive September. In this episode, Doctor Lex and I tackled 32 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 2: the stereotypes often associated with Black women's sexuality, shame, respectability, politics, 33 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 2: and agencies role in sexual liberation, and we explored ways 34 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 2: to confront our sexual shame and foster healthier attitudes towards 35 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 2: sexuality for the next generation. Press play on this episode 36 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 2: and let's celebrate sex positive September. Thank you so much 37 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 2: for joining us again today, doctor Lex. 38 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me back. I love it here. 39 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: We're always happy to have you back. I really appreciate 40 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,839 Speaker 1: you sliding into my dms, Like, Hey, can we talk 41 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: about this you. 42 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 3: Have created just touch the per perfect platform. 43 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: So tell me lex what was your initial reaction to 44 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: the visuals as well as audio. 45 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 3: So in my chest, my reactions were my knee still 46 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 3: got it. That's what I thought initially, like I could 47 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 3: drop down and get back up, and I didn't fall out, 48 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 3: nor did I die. So I was really proud of 49 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 3: myself out of that. And it was so free. There 50 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 3: was a nineties nostalgia. You know, I grew up in Atlanta, 51 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 3: I grew up in College Park, so here in Frank 52 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 3: Ski on the radio was normal and regular every morning, 53 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 3: and I was like, look at this homage, look at 54 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 3: this homage, and that was unexpected. And then all of 55 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 3: the commentary and it's all based on this over sexualization 56 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 3: of black women. And I was like, Okay, let's see 57 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 3: where this goes. But everybody only defaulted to this over 58 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 3: sexualization of the black women based on this Jezebel stereotape. 59 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 3: The Jezebel stereotpe is the idea that black women typically 60 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 3: our class figured, lighter skin and with some type of 61 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 3: non kinky hair. I think the mulatto type woman is 62 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 3: sexually overt and think Carmen Jones, right, so Carmen in 63 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 3: that movie would be the idea of a Jezebel. But 64 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 3: people forget the conversation where black women and their sexualization. 65 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 3: They're also sexualized as Mammy's so fat, dark skinned black 66 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 3: women who have kink gear hair, who are considered not 67 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 3: necessarily sexual, right because they're not the Jezebel, and yet 68 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 3: they reproduce and take care of children. And then there's 69 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 3: also the Sapphire, And the Sapphire is comes from Amos 70 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 3: and Andy right and is considered that kind of ballbuster 71 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 3: type woman who is like, oh, well, you can't handle me, 72 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 3: and attitudinal and think maybe like a Claire Huxtable type, 73 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 3: I will tell you when we will be together in 74 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 3: this way. And then there's the superwoman, So the Black superwoman, 75 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 3: this idea that black women can make a dollar out 76 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 3: of fifteen cents and take care of the communities and 77 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 3: their children and their partners and their job and they're 78 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 3: never exhausted or tired and always have this pleasant attitude 79 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 3: and considered asexual right because they're so strong and they 80 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 3: don't even need sex, and nobody's willing to like really 81 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 3: broach them because they don't need to have this physical 82 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 3: pleasure or satisfaction in their lives. We have all of 83 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 3: these other stereotypes and the only one that people wanted 84 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 3: to focus on was the Jezebel And I was like, huh, 85 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 3: well that's pigeonholing. 86 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: So why do you think that is? Do you think 87 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: that people aren't even aware of all of these other stereotypes. 88 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 3: I think they're aware, but I don't think that their 89 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 3: sexuality is as amped up. And I think that a 90 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 3: black woman in charge of her own sexual pleasure is 91 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 3: scary for some folks. We have a lot of shame. 92 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 3: I was personally told as a child to call my 93 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 3: vagina a pocketbook because I am a Southerner, and you 94 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 3: keep your pocketbook closed and you keep it off the floor. Right, 95 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 3: those are the two things you learned. And I was like, huh, 96 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 3: that's interesting. Why would it ever be on the floor. 97 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 3: But the idea that if you have this own sexual pleasure, 98 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 3: you're some type of hope, you're some type of one 99 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 3: time over sexualized quote unquote, not wifey material. H Right, 100 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 3: And so I don't think the other ones get as 101 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 3: much play because they are somewhat more acceptable. 102 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, because the sexuality, like you said, is not as 103 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: overt so it might be okay for those things to 104 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: be happening, but everybody doesn't know about it. Mm hmmm, yeah, yeah, yeah. 105 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: And a lot of the commentary I saw doctor Lex 106 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: was around just this whole idea, like is this appropriate 107 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: especially right now right? So people it felt like we're 108 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: you know, offended or really shocked, especially given everything that's 109 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: happening in the world right now that we have this 110 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: overly sexual you know, like women reclaiming their sexuality or 111 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: claiming their sexuality in a way that feels like it 112 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: might not fit with like everything going on in the 113 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: world right now, right. 114 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 3: And my question is when better? When better to do 115 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 3: it while we are having movements towards black liberation and freedom, 116 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 3: right when we are having more time maybe to ourselves 117 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 3: at home to have these conversations, When better to talk 118 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 3: about what sexual liberation looks like. I've had clients who 119 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 3: didn't know what the different parts of their role are were. 120 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 3: They're calling their clitterists a third nipple, right, or scared 121 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 3: to say any of the words that are in WAW right, 122 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 3: especially the pee part. They can't say that word out 123 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 3: loud or they whisper it very low. Yeah, because of 124 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 3: the shame and that we've not supposed to talk about this, 125 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 3: and they suffer in their sex lives. They don't say 126 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 3: this isn't pleasurable, or this hurts or I really want 127 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 3: to try doing this a different way because they don't 128 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 3: think they're allowed to. They don't have that permission and 129 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 3: nobody ever gave them that permission. Mm hmm. 130 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: You know, doctor Lex, you talked about sexual shame, right, Like, 131 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: I know a lot of your work sensors on that. 132 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: So I want to hear you talk more about like 133 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: how that shame does play out, because I don't think 134 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: that people necessarily recognize that what they're experiencing in their 135 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 1: reaction to this video or other things is shame. 136 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 3: Child Look, because the interweaves are talking and the level 137 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 3: of respectability politics, and I've triped this a couple of 138 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 3: times online at this point. Right, So, the idea that 139 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 3: black women are inherently sexual and they get over sexualized, 140 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 3: and it's true, there is the adultification of young black girls, 141 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 3: and there's an adultification of black males too. They're sexual 142 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 3: from puberty and they want sex, right, is a misnomer 143 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 3: and it is put on black bodies undoubtedly this conversation 144 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 3: and WOP are two different conversations. We're talking about being 145 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 3: able to enjoy pleasure, so vasal congestion, big fun words 146 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 3: because I like dropping big fun words. Here is when 147 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 3: the genitals are actually blood and it can happen from 148 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 3: an allergy, it happen from arousal. It can happen because 149 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 3: like you just need extra bloodslow in that region. For 150 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 3: some reason, canal starts to lubricate during arousal and excitement. Right, 151 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 3: and the vaginal canal can even change colors a lighter 152 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 3: pink to a deeper red or a crimson or even 153 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 3: a purple. Right because it is saying like I'm excited 154 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 3: for this, we can start to own that it is 155 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 3: okay for you to have pleasure and a society that's 156 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 3: been taught that you're not supposed to have pleasure, you're 157 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:03,599 Speaker 3: supposed to sell sacrifice for goodness, and for black women specifically, 158 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 3: because some colonizers saw some bare breasted African women on 159 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 3: the coast and was like, oh, they must have sex 160 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 3: all the time because their breasts are always out, and 161 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 3: because they felt aroused by seeing this, by seeing this 162 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 3: natural state of being and the body in this way, 163 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 3: they posited that on those African women, and that is 164 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 3: the narrative that has been used to scapegoat abuse of 165 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 3: Black women and girls throughout time. And so to fight 166 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 3: back against that narrative, it's you have to be as 167 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 3: prim and proper as possible, because this is what world 168 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 3: already believes about you. And WOP takes that and throws 169 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 3: it out the window, saying like, why am I gonna 170 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 3: go I'm gonna decolonize my perspective? Why do I have 171 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 3: to believe what these people have said about me all 172 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 3: the time? Why do I have to be this way 173 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 3: to be respected? You know? 174 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: Brionna Holt had a beautiful quote. So she just wrote 175 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: a piece for Complex all about Wow, and she says 176 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: black women have little to no control of how society 177 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: views us with or without party. In Megan's collab, black 178 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: women shaking their butts and describing their sex life and 179 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: music is not what says black women back. It's the 180 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: people who justify harm toward us because of these actions. 181 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 3: Mm hm. 182 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: And that sounds like what you're talking. 183 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 3: About exactly exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying, right, And 184 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 3: we see that in rape culture, right. Well, she was 185 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 3: wearing a short streat she was asking for it, or 186 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 3: she drank too much at a party, or she's had 187 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 3: sex with this many people, so it must have meant 188 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 3: that she wanted it. Now, when we think about again 189 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 3: the dultification of young black girls, it's oh, well, she's 190 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 3: developed enough, her body is ready, And I'm like, that's 191 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 3: not what this is. This is literally saying I can 192 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 3: enjoy my body. I feel empowered through the pleasure of 193 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 3: my body, and I know what pleases my body, and 194 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 3: there's power in that and starting to recognize that power 195 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 3: that is being owned, you. 196 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: Know, do I feel like that? 197 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 3: Is? 198 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: Another part of what I have been observing is people 199 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: talking about, well, how is this not a continuation of 200 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: the conversation of the adultification of black girls, Like what 201 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: kind of message is descending to our young black girls? 202 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 3: M hm, Well, part of it is when you've grown, 203 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 3: you got grown folks business, right, grown. 204 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: Folks business at the facing level. 205 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 3: And so growing up, I had an interesting childhood and 206 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,839 Speaker 3: a very liberal parent. So I learned about a lot 207 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 3: about sex and sexuality, which was amazing because it helped 208 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 3: me right So to Studies show that the more that 209 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 3: kids learn about sexuality so not just intercourse, not just penetration, 210 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 3: but whole sexuality body is being, intimacy, consent, talking about 211 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 3: expression of self, all of those things. The longer they 212 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 3: will actually wait, and the more likely they're going to 213 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 3: be to use protection when they decide to engage in 214 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 3: some type of intercourse or outer course, all that to 215 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 3: be said. Growing up, I got to attend hen parties 216 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 3: with my mom and my aunties who are really my neighbors, 217 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 3: but y'all know how that goes, right, So and their 218 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 3: kids are my cousins and or my nieces and nephews, 219 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 3: depending on our age. And I got to go to 220 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 3: hen parties where they would talk about, you know, being 221 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 3: with these guys when I was a teenager and ex 222 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 3: boyfriends and how some things did work and how somethings didn't. 223 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 3: And I'm like, Wow, there's a whole world in this. 224 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 3: There's a whole world in like this power of feminine 225 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 3: attitude and ownership that a lot of us don't get 226 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 3: to know about a lot of us is saying, oh, 227 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 3: you'll find that out when you're supposed to find that out. 228 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 3: But our mentors not aren't necessarily comfortable guiding us, and 229 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 3: so we have to learn through pain instead of learning 230 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 3: through wisdom. And I'd rather folks learn through wisdom to 231 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 3: learn cooking. 232 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: So I wonder if you can offer some strategies to 233 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,559 Speaker 1: people about how that can happen, right, because I think 234 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: the messaging that young women often get is just keep 235 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: your legs closed, right, Like people will figure that out, 236 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: like you said, when you're older. But who am I 237 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: going to figure it out from if like nobody's talking 238 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: to me about it? So what kinds of things do 239 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: you think people can do to impart this wisdom? 240 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 3: Right? So I can give an example for my own life. 241 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 3: So I have trolling kids. I call them hayton A babies. 242 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 3: Those are my habs. And my oldest hab is a 243 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 3: volva owner and said it's okay that I call her 244 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 3: by she or he pronounced not say. And one day 245 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 3: was sitting on my lap and tends to be news 246 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 3: because she's three and that's what life is right now. 247 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 3: So sit on my lot and started like touching her 248 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 3: volva and I was like, are you touching your volva? 249 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 3: And she says, yeah, it's nice. I'm like, it is nice, 250 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 3: and and we didn't talk about consent of you touching 251 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 3: your volvo while you were on me. I'm a little 252 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 3: bit uncomfortable, and I'd really like for you to do 253 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 3: that in your own private space when you're by yourself, 254 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 3: like your room, or if you want to go to 255 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 3: the bathroom and do that, that's absolutely fine. And she 256 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 3: was like, well, I kind of want to watch the 257 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 3: Magic School Bus. I was like, okay, we can continue 258 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 3: watching the Magic School Bus. And then she was like, well, 259 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 3: let me go wash my hands again. And I was like, 260 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 3: thank you for doing that, and went off and washed 261 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 3: her hands again and came back and sat on my 262 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 3: lap and didn't touch your vulva anymore. Right, all of 263 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 3: that says, yes, it's nice to touch your vova. It 264 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 3: is absolutely okay to touch your vova. It is not 265 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 3: okay to touch your volva while you were on me. Right, 266 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 3: this is not a private place to do. So please 267 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 3: go do that in a private place, or you can 268 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 3: stop and do it later. But we're not shaming, right, 269 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 3: And some people are like, well, my kid's not three, 270 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 3: my kid is sixteen and trying to be out here 271 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 3: in these streets during COVID and et cetera, et cetera. 272 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 3: It's time to talk to them. About one. If they're 273 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 3: out in me s, if they are doing things that 274 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 3: were they're sexually active, is it pleasurable for them? Have 275 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 3: you taught your child how to advocate for their own 276 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 3: pleasure and what that looks like. I've never met a 277 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 3: parent yet who says I want my kids to have 278 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 3: a crappy sex life. I've not yet met that parent. Right. 279 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: Most parents are just like, I don't want them to 280 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: have a sex life period. 281 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 3: Right, And that's absolutely okay and absolutely unrealistic. Right. 282 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: If they choose that, then fine, but not just because you. 283 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 3: Want it exactly exactly right. And even folks who identify 284 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 3: as asexual might have some type of romantic or physically 285 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 3: pleasurable intercourse or sexual play. So it's saying, hey, have 286 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 3: you checked in with your body and to see what 287 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 3: feels nice? Right? How do you tell somebody no, you 288 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 3: don't want to do something, or yes, you do want 289 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 3: to do something. We do leave that part out. We 290 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 3: teach people how to say no all the time, we 291 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 3: don't really teach them how to say yes around their 292 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 3: physical empowerment and enjoyment, especially when they're adolescents. 293 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: I think this goes back to your earlier statement. Though, 294 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: and even our first conversation with you here on the 295 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: podcast about sexual shame, right, because I don't know that 296 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 1: as a parent you can have that conversation with your 297 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: kids if you have not done some of the work 298 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: of like releasing your own sexual shame. 299 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 3: Agreed. Agreed, well, and I will contend that some parents 300 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 3: that I've seen say, I just don't want to do 301 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 3: what my parents did to me. Right. Yeah, so you 302 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 3: woke up and you just found a book on your 303 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 3: bookshelf and it was like, okay, what is this about? 304 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 3: Or they hated you a book was like come to 305 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 3: me if you have any questions. You were like, I'm 306 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 3: not coming to talk to you. This is strange because 307 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 3: they were also really uncomfortable. So I've seen parents say 308 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 3: like I want to do differently for my child and 309 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 3: figuring out what that looks like. And that also might 310 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 3: be saying we have an askeable adult, right, Like I'm 311 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 3: a t t to my lying sister's kids, right. So 312 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 3: those are my line nieces and my line nephews. And 313 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 3: so I've had my nieces come to me and be like, Hey, 314 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 3: this is what's going on. I need some help, t Lex. 315 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 3: What do we do and I am, and I'm like, hey, 316 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 3: your kid wants to have a conversation with me. Is 317 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 3: this okay with you? So I check in with consent, 318 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,159 Speaker 3: not necessarily about the topic, but saying can I be 319 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 3: that askable person and are you comfortable with that? And 320 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 3: they're like yes, I'm okay. And I tell the same 321 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 3: thing to the team, like, hey, I'm gonna talk to 322 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 3: your mom to make sure it's okay you talk to me, 323 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 3: and then we can put some boundaries around it. 324 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: I love the concept of an askable adult and matter 325 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: as that we trust yeah, because it feels like okay, 326 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: even if maybe I haven't done my own work to 327 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: be comfortable with this conversation, if there is an auntie 328 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: or somebody who they can have this conversation within, the 329 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: conversation still happens exactly exactly. I've not yet met a 330 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: parent that was like, if I feel safe with this 331 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: adult to help me parents these kids, I'm be like nah, right. 332 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: It's different if it's some random stranger that you don't 333 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: know or who you're just getting to know. But if 334 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: it's somebody you're super close and you trust their opinion 335 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: and you all have like values and you're like, Okay, 336 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: this person's knowledgeable about this. 337 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 3: I trust them. I want my kid to have help. 338 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 3: I want my kid to have support. Then we're building 339 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 3: those communities, and so making sure you have somebody who 340 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 3: is sex positive in your community can be integral. So 341 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 3: when these kids see why, because it's gonna happen, right 342 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 3: and the internet is everywhere. Kids are way more savvy 343 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 3: and deleting cookies nowadays than we were we were, and 344 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 3: deleting browser history, and so they're gonna see it and 345 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 3: they'll be like, I noticed you were interested in this, 346 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 3: What were you interested in? 347 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: So making it a conversation as again opposed to shaming 348 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: mm hmm, yeah right. 349 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 3: And say like, I'm not really comfortable with you consuming 350 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 3: this type of adult content, so we can we talk 351 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 3: about what was interesting and maybe find like the information 352 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 3: you were looking for. 353 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it also feels it also feels really interesting 354 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: that people are reacting to this as if this is 355 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: the first time we have seen women clean their sexuality 356 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: in a music video or in lyrics, right, Like, this 357 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: comes from a long history of other female rappers and 358 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: women in music who have done similar kinds of things. 359 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,719 Speaker 1: So why do you think the reaction has been so strong. 360 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 3: Well so, I think this is the first time it's 361 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 3: been so in your face. All right, I will tell 362 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 3: you I got my life from that fountain. 363 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: In the entry of the video, the fountain was rather 364 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: cool as a whole former breastfeeding mom like, exactly. 365 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 3: Thank you, doctor Joy. I told my other psychologist friends. 366 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 3: We were fighting. Wait, we scrapping because I hadn't seen it, 367 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 3: and they had started conversations, and you know, I have 368 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 3: little ones. I don't always get a chance to look 369 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 3: at things up to date. I was like, let me 370 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 3: go look at this video. And I saw that fountain, 371 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 3: and I was like, is that from their numbers? It is? 372 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 3: And none of them saw the breastfeeding or the nursing 373 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 3: chesticles that I saw. They were like, I saw the hair, 374 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 3: and I saw the pose, and I thought about little Kim, 375 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 3: and I was like, but you ain't see this nursing 376 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 3: parent who oftentimes feels touched out or maybe even unwanted 377 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 3: or uncertain about their bodies. And it's a celebration of yes, 378 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 3: you can bust the wide open and still be a 379 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 3: nurse and parent and take advantage of those full and 380 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 3: gorged boobs while they're sitting up right and enjoy some 381 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 3: of that sexual play too. So yes, thank you doctor 382 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 3: Joy for confirming that for me. Like the Obi won, 383 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 3: I was like, all right, yeah, I got yall, that's okay. 384 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 2: More from our conversation after the break. 385 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, it definitely has felt like the backlash has felt different. 386 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: And I'm trying to remember, like the last video we 387 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: had that might have given us the same kind of reaction. 388 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 3: I don't was it well, I don't remember. I'm not 389 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 3: the person for music an art. I remember Tweet, and 390 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 3: I remember that I was not old enough to be 391 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 3: singing about Tweet when my neck in my back was out. Yeah. 392 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 3: But I'm just remembering, you know, growing up seeing Freaknick 393 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 3: and hearing Trina and here in low Cam and Foxy 394 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 3: Brown and seeing those things right, and seeing those same 395 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 3: things and hearing the same terms, and people have sung 396 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 3: about sex. 397 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: This is the beginning of time, right, Like our mothers 398 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: and grandmothers, like they all had similar content in terms 399 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: of lyric. Now, it may not have been as descriptive 400 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: or like as pointed, but everybody has been singing about 401 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: sex for a very long time, for. 402 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 3: A very long time, right, And that's the other part 403 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 3: of that it is liberating to be like I can 404 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 3: just say this out loud. And that's part of our 405 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 3: sex therapy model. Right. The first step in our sex 406 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 3: therapy model is permission giving. Right, it's saying I give 407 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 3: you permission to talk about these things. I give you 408 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 3: permission to say them out loud. I typically take that 409 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 3: a step further and use it also for consent, like 410 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 3: do you have me permission to talk about this with you, 411 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 3: and ensuring that that conversation is safe for everybody in 412 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 3: a room, and also giving people permission to pass, like 413 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 3: if it's too uncomfortable, we don't have to talk about it. 414 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 3: But we don't see black women rappers get held up 415 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 3: in the same light when we see black mail rappers 416 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 3: talking about the same thing. Right, Yeah, the black male 417 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 3: rappers have talked about sex and how many people they 418 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,719 Speaker 3: want to run through, and how they like their sex, 419 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 3: and how they want a sex kitten and a video 420 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 3: fixing and how they hit it from behind, et cetera, 421 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 3: et cetera, and don't get the same scrutiny. They don't 422 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 3: get the same scrutiny. And yet when a woman talks 423 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 3: about her own body part and how it functions, she's 424 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 3: now all of a sudden, the hue and uncouth. 425 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: Right, the discrepancy feels very jarring to me. Right, Like 426 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: when male rappers release these same kinds of songs, there 427 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: is very little to know criticism of these kinds of things, 428 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: but it feels like people really are reacting to the 429 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: fact that these women have their agency to talk about 430 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: what brings them pleasure in that it's okay for us 431 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: to talk about these things as women because. 432 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 3: We don't hear about the black book, which is a 433 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 3: male sexual stereotype for black men, right, that he always 434 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 3: wants sex, that his appetite is insatiable, that he has 435 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 3: a super large, superhuman penis and is able to just 436 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 3: have as much sex as he wants for as long 437 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 3: as he wants, right, and even saying those things out loud, 438 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 3: quote unquote, They're not supposed to be horrible for men, right. 439 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 3: Men are supposed to function like that. When we think 440 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 3: about toxic masculinity, anything outside of that narrative is supposed 441 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 3: to be non masculine. And it's that embracing of this 442 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 3: hyper masculinity and this toxic masculinity that I also think 443 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 3: reflects back on like wait, what you're trying to be 444 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 3: in power sexually. Nah. Now I'm not cool with that 445 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 3: because now it feels threatening. So it's I want a 446 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 3: sex kitten, and I think I put this in a meme. 447 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 3: I want a sex kitten. I want somebody who's going 448 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 3: to do sex tricks. And women are like, wow, I'm 449 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 3: putting on you. And then dudes are like, nah, not 450 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 3: like that. 451 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: You will help. 452 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 3: House? Right? 453 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: How good? How does it come together? I do want 454 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: to hear more about that than your thoughts about that, 455 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: Like if people are just not recognizing how contradictory those 456 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: messages are, right, like that, it's okay for you to 457 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: do all these things if I say that you do them, 458 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: or if I encourage you to do them, but if 459 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: you initiate it, then it's a problem. 460 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 3: And I think that comes from that power piece, right, 461 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 3: it's I have power over you, or I have influence 462 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 3: over you. I can own part of this narrative. Well, 463 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 3: I'm the one who made her that way, right, t 464 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 3: Pain says, Now she liked Pain right because he taught 465 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 3: her how to do it. And so there's a powers 466 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 3: there that adds to that ego. But it's not necessarily 467 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 3: theirs to own. It's the own individual persons to own. 468 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 3: And I think we get that in sexuality. In my 469 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 3: own study, black women having sex, and this is about 470 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 3: but most of the black women in that study believed 471 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,479 Speaker 3: that during sex there was a power exchange. There's an 472 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 3: exchange of power during that intimacy. And this is that 473 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty women just about. So there was 474 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 3: an exchange of power that happened during this sexual exchange 475 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,239 Speaker 3: and intercourse. And they believe that. And so if they 476 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 3: believe that, right, and they're with another person who believes that, 477 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 3: then it's yeah, now I have some type of power. 478 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 3: Now I'm part of your narrative. Now I'm part of 479 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 3: your story and you are because of me. 480 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: So we know that when women become more liberated, that 481 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: leads to liberation for everybody. So it does feel like 482 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: people are working against their best interest in working against 483 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: women being more sexually liberated. Yes, that sexual liberation of 484 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: saying I'm owning my body, I'm owning my pleasure and 485 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: I am wet for this, and you'd be like, nah, 486 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: I don't want that. That may sounds so ridiculous, It 487 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: sounds so ridiculous, But how do you think that then 488 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: maybe does help men to even feel more comfortable with 489 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: their own liberation. 490 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 3: I think it also gives remember that permission piece I 491 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 3: was talking about. It gives them permission too to say 492 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 3: I don't have the mind read do you like this? 493 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 3: Do you like that? I'm gonna try this right, and 494 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,880 Speaker 3: it's taxing. And one thing, if you're a woman who 495 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 3: was sleeping with men, the penis doesn't like pressure. It 496 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 3: does not like pressure. It's something that just like it 497 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 3: was really hard and stress really do affect penile performance. 498 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 3: So tell me what you like, show me what you like, 499 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 3: and puzzle typically begets arousal. So the sounds, a noise, 500 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 3: the the what was the song? The macaroni and cheet 501 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 3: sound right, Those things say I'm ready for you and 502 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 3: want you can be such a turn on that it 503 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 3: could be get more arousal and saying like, oh, I 504 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 3: know exactly how to please this person. I know exactly 505 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 3: what this vaginal canal wants. I know exactly what this 506 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 3: cluitterist wants. I know exactly what whatever these nipples, these toes, 507 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 3: this elbow, the back of the neck, whatever it is, 508 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 3: I know what it wants. And that helps my own 509 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 3: sexual self esteem, and so you can give that gift 510 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 3: through your own self exploration to your lover. You can 511 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 3: give that gift of enhancing their sexual self esteem because 512 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 3: they listen to exactly what you needed, and we're able 513 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 3: to help you facilitate pleasure. 514 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: So where do you think we can start to kind 515 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: of break down on some of that doctor lex like 516 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: how can we help people to kind of get out 517 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: of that contradiction? 518 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 3: So I think one is starting with some of these conversations, right, 519 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 3: So listening to this podcast, listening to sex poseive folks, 520 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 3: hearing out all sorts of perspectives, right, because again we 521 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 3: live in America, so most of our perspectives come from America. 522 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 3: But looking outside of ourselves. I have a book called 523 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 3: Like the African Reader about sexuality from various parts of 524 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 3: Africa that helped me like, oh look, other people have 525 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 3: sung and talked about hymen's and vagina's. Look at that 526 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 3: and there's power in that. So starting to explore some 527 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 3: of our understanding. The other one, Pleasure Activism is the 528 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 3: great book. And then The Body Is Not an Apology 529 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,959 Speaker 3: is a great book. Yeah, because we do have to externalize, 530 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 3: like hey, this is how you've been taught to see yourself. 531 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 3: What do you actually believe about yourself and the skin 532 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 3: that you're in and the body that you have that's 533 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 3: outside of everybody else's opinions and constraints. Then you start 534 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 3: to explore your pleasure. Do you actually like when your 535 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 3: lover snacks your butt like that? Or is it fun 536 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 3: for them? Do you want to be I don't know, choked, 537 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 3: or do you want your toe sucked? Or do you 538 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 3: want the back of your knee licked at the right place, 539 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 3: I don't know, whatever it is, explore for yourself what 540 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 3: really feels good for you, and then being able to 541 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 3: voice some of that which has statistically been found better 542 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,719 Speaker 3: to happen. And I will say periment apostle and postman 543 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 3: aposal women. So there's doctor joy, a level of cares 544 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 3: that you no longer give. Right after a certain point, 545 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 3: you're able to verbalize like I don't have confidence, I 546 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 3: don't like that, do it this way. And there's some 547 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 3: relief in also not being fearful of like getting pregnant 548 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 3: things like that. But there is a level that comes 549 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 3: with comfortability with your body at that point. For a 550 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 3: lot of women identify folks before that, so before your 551 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,959 Speaker 3: mid to late forties. Folks, Babe, I really don't like that. 552 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 3: Can we try it a different way? Or it really 553 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 3: turns tends me on when I'm really into If please 554 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 3: keep doing that, it feels so good, right, So, having 555 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 3: some of that scripted language to encourage and also center 556 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 3: your own pleasure during this time. It is not your 557 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 3: lover's job to give you pleasure. It's your job to 558 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 3: help your lover facilitate pleasure for yourself and vice versa. 559 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 2: More from our conversation after the break. 560 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: You know, doctor Lex, listening to you talk about that 561 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: study that talks about like postmitalpausal, it feels like a 562 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: part of what WAB does is give people language for 563 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: like censoring their own pleasure that you can start asking 564 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: for that even earlier in your life. 565 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 3: Please please ask for that even earlier in your life. 566 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes. 567 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 3: It can be celebratory too, right right, not something that's 568 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 3: just so hidden in so away. And when we're talking 569 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 3: about wo, I also want to just plug that it 570 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 3: doesn't matter how you get a walk, right, So, if 571 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 3: it is a natural occurring lubrication, if it is an 572 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 3: added lubrication that is water based or silicon based, you do 573 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 3: not use silicon based if you were going to use 574 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 3: a silicon toy, right, enjoy that. People who are nursing, 575 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 3: you need to automatically add a lubricant. It does not 576 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 3: make you any less than if you're using a lubricant. 577 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 3: It just makes everything feel better. And I can say 578 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 3: I had a ooh over a seventy five year old 579 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 3: client who said that they had great lubrication and yet 580 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 3: they still had some burning when there was some digital penetration. 581 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 3: And I was like, that means there's not a lot 582 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 3: of lubrication. You need more about that, and she was 583 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 3: like oh. And so I sent them some lubricant samples 584 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 3: and I got a call back from the partner and 585 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 3: from the client and they were like, hey, can we 586 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,239 Speaker 3: buy more of this where it from? And I was like, 587 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 3: I'm happy to to this website to get more of it. Right. 588 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 3: So it's that permission to start off younger and for 589 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 3: my own kids. But both of my kids are Volva owners, 590 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 3: and I want them to have pleasure with their bodies 591 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 3: again learning through wisdom and not through pain. So I 592 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 3: want to make sure like, hey, you know what, if 593 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 3: it doesn't feel good, you say stop or I want 594 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 3: you to be careful with your own body. So this 595 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 3: is why you wash your hands before you touch your 596 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 3: vovas and we don't stick to like random things in 597 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 3: our volvas. Right, all of this type of stuff are 598 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 3: important to talk about what feels good in our bodies, 599 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 3: and this pleasure doesn't necessarily always have to be sexual either, 600 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 3: as sexual Aswap is right, there's also pleasure from that empowerment. 601 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 3: I can be on top and I can own this 602 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 3: and say I'm gonna say my own name right because 603 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 3: i own this, and I'm a spell it for you 604 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 3: because I'm that good, and that can be empowering and 605 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:51,719 Speaker 3: uplifting as well. 606 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, the other thing that I think, you 607 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: know it's important to think about in terms of this conversation, 608 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: doctor Lex, is that it feels like like women feeling 609 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: empowered about their sexuality doesn't really just stop like in 610 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: the bedroom, because it feels like there is this part 611 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 1: of like specifically with Meg, right. You know, we know 612 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: that she was recently shot and there was of course 613 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: again conversation about like how people were not taking it 614 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: seriously and like all the jokes and memes about it, 615 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: and it feels like a part of why it was 616 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: not taken this seriously is because she is so sexy, right, 617 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,240 Speaker 1: so she is not seen as this like helpless woman, 618 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 1: you know, that kind of thing, and so it feels 619 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: like there is like a convulsion of those worlds and 620 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: that her sexuality has also made her view people as 621 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: somebody that it was okay to like joke about her 622 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: being harmed. 623 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 3: Mm hmmm mm hmmm. So those are those respectability politics 624 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 3: coming in again. Right, You're not worthy of decent human 625 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 3: empathy from somebody harming you, right, So this was violent, yes, right, 626 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 3: And she's lucky she survived because if it would have 627 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,359 Speaker 3: been anywhere else in her body, or if she would 628 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 3: have been majorly injured, then everybody would be like, oh 629 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 3: my gosh, rip right and playing albums and dedication songs. 630 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,240 Speaker 3: And we have to realize that happens to real folks 631 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 3: in everyday life all the time, all the time. And 632 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 3: the specifically I'll definitely say specifically for black trans women too. 633 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 3: They are killed for existing because it challenges this power 634 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 3: dynamic that men find it threatening. So men find their 635 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:38,439 Speaker 3: attraction threatening. And it's similar here saying that oh, you're 636 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 3: too sexy or you're too much and that threatens this 637 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,240 Speaker 3: idea of my masculinity because now I'm not the sexually 638 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 3: dominant one. That's really problematic and really scary that people 639 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 3: would be like, oh, this is so funny. And I 640 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 3: saw something about that, like then I read about it 641 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 3: the meme from Boys in the Hood or Beyonce I 642 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,240 Speaker 3: got bit in the face by another woman and everybody 643 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 3: want to be an oppera mm hmm, And I was like, 644 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 3: there is no difference, Like a human is a human, right, 645 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 3: and she still still deserves the same respect whether she's 646 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 3: busting it open or not. You know. 647 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,879 Speaker 1: The other thing that I thought was really cool about 648 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,359 Speaker 1: the video was that they brought other women in, right, 649 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: So it also felt like this like celebration, like this 650 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: sisterhood of sexuality, right, like that we are not only 651 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: going to talk about our own, but we're gonna also 652 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 1: invite other people to talk about theirs or at least 653 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: share a piece of theirs. 654 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 3: Again, and there's no shame in our game. And we're 655 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 3: not the only ones. Look at all of us. All 656 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 3: of us have some form of sexiness that's our own 657 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 3: that we can all own. And I think that was 658 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,399 Speaker 3: so empowering. It reminded me of what was that song, 659 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:42,240 Speaker 3: Ladies Night. 660 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: Ladies Night, Yah, the cameos. 661 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 3: For the mansion. Now, I have no idea what my 662 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 3: roomor looked like, but it can't be that cheetah room. 663 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 1: But it's funny that one, right, And so I was like, 664 00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 1: this is so cool. 665 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 3: Every had their own space, and I think that was 666 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 3: metaphor you all have your own space be create exactly 667 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,359 Speaker 3: who you want to be sexual mm hmm. 668 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 1: And then one person's sexuality doesn't have to like compromise 669 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: or be in competition with. 670 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 3: Yours exactly because it's abundance. Yeah, we're coming from a 671 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 3: Her level of sexy doesn't take away from your level 672 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 3: of sexy, right right, right? What she does? And I 673 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,720 Speaker 3: think we've been taught that, right. What's that saying? Anything 674 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 3: you won't do another woman will yes to hang on 675 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:35,839 Speaker 3: to some trifling person? Just why why do you want 676 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 3: him if he wants her sex? Right, or maybe I'm 677 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 3: open to it, and like he can have her sex 678 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 3: and he can have my sex, or she can go 679 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,319 Speaker 3: have his sex. Like whatever, we're not from we're not 680 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,320 Speaker 3: from scarcity, We're from abundance. This person isn't a threat 681 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 3: to you. And if you all decide like these are 682 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 3: your boundaries that you're not with other people, maybe you 683 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 3: can learn something new that you might enjoy, or you 684 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 3: all can figure that out together. But whatever one person 685 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 3: does doesn't take away from your own because everybody has 686 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:04,319 Speaker 3: their own lane. 687 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, doctor Alex, I knew that you were going 688 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,399 Speaker 1: to be up on this video because this is kind 689 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: of in line with you know, what you do and 690 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 1: how you work with clients, right, And I think that 691 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: that's an important part of the conversation too. It's just 692 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: as therapist, how like this kind of information can be 693 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: helpful with our clients. So I know you have already 694 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: started using this in your clinical work, right I have. 695 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 3: I have. I have a client who is just so 696 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 3: empowered and who like, listen to Foxy Brown and look 697 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 3: Cam and loved it and then had never seen the 698 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 3: video brings back nostyle that with Holly Berry and the 699 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:50,399 Speaker 3: fact that apps where we're not necessarily about these respectability 700 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,839 Speaker 3: politics and adopting all of them. It was We're going 701 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 3: to be who we are and that's good enough for 702 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 3: whatever socioeconomic class we're in and whatever world we're in. 703 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 3: And I was like, you gotta go watch Baps talking 704 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 3: about some self acceptance and that was her homework. I 705 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 3: was like, go watch Baps. You love this video. I 706 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,360 Speaker 3: need you to have some context. Go watch bas and 707 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 3: Baps is about these two black chicks from the hood. 708 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 3: All they wanted to do was like one wanted to 709 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 3: be a dancer and a heavy d video and that 710 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 3: was her life goal. And they left the men that 711 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 3: they were with for not feeling accepted and encouraged and 712 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 3: a whole bunch of other stuff. If you haven't gotten 713 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 3: to see Bats, go watch Baps, y'all right for this week. 714 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's probably on like a hood or 715 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 1: Netflix something. 716 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,240 Speaker 3: I would wow, it's probably on YouTube at the page 717 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 3: and it's probably at this point. But yeah, so just 718 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 3: learning more and again it's all about that self acceptance. 719 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,360 Speaker 3: I think that really is key of giving yourself permission 720 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:53,800 Speaker 3: to exist, to breathe without the sphere of this biblical Jezebel, 721 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 3: without this fear of being rejected based on your sexuality. 722 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 3: Because if a person rejects you, then that's not the 723 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 3: person for you. It's not the person you're meant to 724 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 3: be with. You know. 725 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: Something else that has really heartened me just kind of 726 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 1: following like the Twitter threads is that it feels like 727 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,240 Speaker 1: so both Halle Berry and Viola Davis were like photo 728 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,320 Speaker 1: shopped into different parts of the video, and they both 729 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: have like retweeted. 730 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:22,719 Speaker 4: They're like photo shops stop it. I love it, which 731 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,879 Speaker 4: feels really empowering to me. I think in that it 732 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,799 Speaker 4: is you know, like this older generation of women kind 733 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,279 Speaker 4: of like saying like, yes, we. 734 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 1: Like co sign right, so we are also rejecting these 735 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: respectability politics that you know, like we can't also be sexy. 736 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,240 Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, and especially for Viola Davis right, yes, being 737 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:47,720 Speaker 3: a darker skinned and with kinky hair, and like Viola 738 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 3: Davis's arms are amazing and a muscular build, right, yes, yes, 739 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 3: Sam yup, I could definitely be in this video and 740 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 3: owning not I appreciate that. 741 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 1: Yes, it was very very I really appreciated her sharing 742 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: her you know, like nonverbal co signing so to speak 743 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:11,839 Speaker 1: with the video. Yeah, so, doctor Lex, tell people where 744 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 1: they can find you. I know you were recently here, 745 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: but maybe people miss your last episode. We will of 746 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,839 Speaker 1: course include both of your previous appearances in the show notes, 747 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: but tell people where they can find you. 748 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,959 Speaker 3: You can find me at Lex. That's Ledublex sex sex 749 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:30,360 Speaker 3: dotdoc dot com and you can subscribe to my website 750 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 3: for all of the following updates. You can check out 751 00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 3: the new upcoming Conflict Resolution Couples course I have for 752 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 3: the spark a virtual brunch and you'll get some one 753 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 3: on one time with me about ninety minutes wor to 754 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,759 Speaker 3: talk about resolving conflict, showing up how you really are. 755 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,919 Speaker 3: I know we're all trying to be together as much 756 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 3: as we can in the most positive ways right now, 757 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 3: and that's what that course really does. And then I'm 758 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 3: lexex doc across all social media platforms, so that's Facebook, Instagram. 759 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 1: And Twitter perfect and we'll add that to the show 760 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: notes as well. Thank you so much, Lex. 761 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:08,360 Speaker 3: Thank you. 762 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 2: A huge thank you to doctor Lex Brown James for 763 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 2: joining us again for this episode, so learn more about 764 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 2: her and her work. Be sure to visit the show 765 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 2: notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session three 766 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 2: twenty five, and don't forget to visit Sexpositive September dot 767 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 2: com for all of the other incredible conversations we're having 768 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,840 Speaker 2: this month. If you're looking for a therapists in your area, 769 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 2: check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot 770 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 2: com slash directory and if you want to continue digging 771 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 2: into this topic or just be in community with other sisters, 772 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 2: come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. 773 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,719 Speaker 2: It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for 774 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,200 Speaker 2: black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy 775 00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 2: for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, 776 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:02,800 Speaker 2: Alise Ellis, and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. 777 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,280 Speaker 2: Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. 778 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,439 Speaker 2: I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all 779 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 2: real soon. Take good care. What's The reviews for Sisterhood 780 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 2: Heels are rolling in and I simply cannot stop smiling 781 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 2: at the hot girl books on Instagram shared finish reading 782 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 2: this warm hug of a book last night and while 783 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,359 Speaker 2: it made me once a hug my sister friend so bad, 784 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,839 Speaker 2: Sisterhood Heels is a beautiful guide on how we as 785 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,920 Speaker 2: black women can use our community and friends to aid 786 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,960 Speaker 2: in our healing process. Thank you so much for the 787 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:45,200 Speaker 2: beautiful review. Have you grabbed your copy yet? Get one 788 00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:49,280 Speaker 2: for yourself and a friend at Sisterhoodheels dot com.