Speaker 1: Wham bam, thank you Frand that's a hat right there. Also,
Speaker 1: franceled is a hot Fran sold so stupid. No one
Speaker 1: is allowed to buy that hat. What porn category or
Speaker 1: specific video erotica made you realize that you were queer? Well?
Speaker 1: I actually was reminded about this this morning because, um,
Speaker 1: I was on Twitter and Holly Berry quote tweeted something
Speaker 1: about the Flynn Stones, and I was remembering that her
Speaker 1: and Kyle McLaughlin in that movie were one of my
Speaker 1: sexual awakenings. Um, but that that feels that feels a
Speaker 1: little close to like talking about, you know, like a
Speaker 1: formative piece of media as we would in a normal episode.
Speaker 1: But I did think they were really sexy. My Internet
Speaker 1: had like parental controls on it, so I actually couldn't
Speaker 1: access porn from my home computer because it would like
Speaker 1: send a little like Larry, Larry, you can't go here whatever.
Speaker 1: But I was able to like, you know, search on
Speaker 1: YouTube like boys Kissing, which would lead me to basically
Speaker 1: clips of porn without the porn in it, like what
Speaker 1: everything that happens before after? That's my favorite part. I
Speaker 1: can't watch porn unless it has a storyline. Do you
Speaker 1: watch a lot of porn. No, no, not really. I
Speaker 1: watch a lot of Only Fans. I think that, honestly,
Speaker 1: that's something that I'm discovering about. Like what turns me
Speaker 1: on is like a live component or like an intimate
Speaker 1: component of like me feeling like I know where I
Speaker 1: am invested in, like the porn actor in some way.
Speaker 1: And Only Fans makes like performers a lot more human
Speaker 1: and a lot more accessible, and you get to see
Speaker 1: more of their every day, and so that I think
Speaker 1: brings me closer to something that is like a turn on.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that even makes sense, but like
Speaker 1: I also like I am very this is like maybe
Speaker 1: t M I, but like I love like comboys because
Speaker 1: it's like a live thing, you know, and like, so
Speaker 1: that's so interesting. Isn't that weird? But I think it.
Speaker 1: I think it makes sense for you, um like that
Speaker 1: you need some kind of personal investment to get off.
Speaker 1: I think that there's like a there's an intimacy in that,
Speaker 1: and like sometimes you know when you like send tips
Speaker 1: or whatever and they say your name or they say
Speaker 1: whatever your screen name is, and I'm like, like that
Speaker 1: is like what I like. I like that, like the
Speaker 1: intimacy do you also look for intimacy in your personal
Speaker 1: sex life, like do you need do you need like
Speaker 1: some kind of connection with the people you're hooking up with,
Speaker 1: or like can you do really casual sex? I I
Speaker 1: definitely in the last year have tried to do more
Speaker 1: like a non hookups, like people that I see once
Speaker 1: or twice and then I never see again. It's never
Speaker 1: as satisfying as when I'm you know, I've at least
Speaker 1: been chatting with that person for a little bit, you know.
Speaker 1: I think I definitely do look for I don't even
Speaker 1: know if intimacy is the right word, but it because
Speaker 1: that word can be very loaded in the romantic terrain,
Speaker 1: but it really is intimacy or maybe safety, I think.
Speaker 1: But I think you can have intimacy with someone who
Speaker 1: you only have sex with once, like you can have
Speaker 1: really intimate sex with a complete stranger. In fact, that
Speaker 1: is like my favorite kind of interaction is something that
Speaker 1: feels really intimate but actually has no commitment element to it,
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't like it could I can maybe never
Speaker 1: see this person again, but I get the intimacy still,
Speaker 1: which that's kind of why I love like for play,
Speaker 1: and I love that that kind of build up. What
Speaker 1: about you liked, I d you need intimacy to have sex,
Speaker 1: I say that kind of physics. I I certainly don't UM,
Speaker 1: and I certainly do not, and I actually kind of
Speaker 1: prefer casual encounters UM to use the language of Craigslist.
Speaker 1: And I almost have recently started to wonder if I
Speaker 1: might fall somewhere and like the demi romantic spectrum. But
Speaker 1: I also don't know if that's like more of a
Speaker 1: byproduct of circumstance rather than something that actually is like
Speaker 1: deeply true about me. But you know, like the obviously
Speaker 1: you know, I'm coming at this through the lens of
Speaker 1: of my life pre pandemic, and I feel like I
Speaker 1: can't use that excuse forever, Like my sexuality can't always
Speaker 1: have an asterisk on it, because like we are at
Speaker 1: least somewhat back to you know, quote unquote normal in
Speaker 1: the ways in which we we can have sex. But
Speaker 1: I still think about my sexuality in terms of like
Speaker 1: my old life, which was like pre pandemic, before I
Speaker 1: lived in Los Angeles, when I mostly my most fulfilling
Speaker 1: sexual encounters were like I was traveling so much, and
Speaker 1: like I loved um, you know, having a having a
Speaker 1: support in every store I'm having, you know, like like
Speaker 1: finding new lovers in every city. You know, I would,
Speaker 1: I would be traveling and I would hook up with
Speaker 1: a new person every night, and like that was so
Speaker 1: fulfilling to me, just the constant newness because I am
Speaker 1: definitely a person who it is really hard for me
Speaker 1: to be seen intimately in a in a deep way.
Speaker 1: I don't mean just like the pure like aesthetics of it.
Speaker 1: I think it does become difficult for me to let
Speaker 1: my guard down with people I'm having sex with, and
Speaker 1: I know that that can be super fulfilling. Like actually,
Speaker 1: the last lover I had, um lover, that word, not lover.
Speaker 1: The last person I've had sex with was someone who
Speaker 1: really challenged that for me, and it led to a
Speaker 1: really amazing sexual encounter, someone who kind of wouldn't let
Speaker 1: me have the wall up and engage with them in
Speaker 1: a different way. But yeah, so, so I don't know
Speaker 1: if that's just like, um, this thing that I've done
Speaker 1: to guard myself. I don't know if that actually works
Speaker 1: for me anymore. It certainly was at one point in time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I think something of the same thing, but
Speaker 1: in the reverse. It's like I think that I actually
Speaker 1: required safety in my interactions with people to my detriment
Speaker 1: and actually did not have as much sex as I
Speaker 1: could have had in my early twenties because I was
Speaker 1: just too scared of being hurt, or too scared of
Speaker 1: random encounters or like seeing someone for only one night.
Speaker 1: But like you actually kind of answered a question that
Speaker 1: I was going to ask, which is like defense mechanisms
Speaker 1: come up in everyone's bedrooms, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: And so it makes sense that, you know, the way
Speaker 1: that we sleep with people is a byproduct of like
Speaker 1: how we come up in the world. And I think that,
Speaker 1: like everyone everyone, everyone should like challenge their desires and
Speaker 1: they're like needs, they're kind of what they think their
Speaker 1: needs are in the bedroom because a lot of times
Speaker 1: we tell ourselves and I'm honestly just talking to myself
Speaker 1: at this point because I've like thought about this so much,
Speaker 1: but I feel like I tell myself a narrative about
Speaker 1: me and what I like and what I don't like,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I do too, and it's it's it's an
Speaker 1: extension of what we were talking about last week when
Speaker 1: when I talked about how you know, I like to
Speaker 1: present as more aloof than I actually am, you know, publicly,
Speaker 1: and I do definitely that definitely extends to my private
Speaker 1: life too. I am very guarded. I'm a cancer. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm an extremely like moody, emotional person. But I do
Speaker 1: have a very hard shell, um and very soft meat
Speaker 1: fighting shell. Crap, mom, yes, um I this I you know,
Speaker 1: We're in a serious part of the converst So I'm
Speaker 1: going to move us along to the stupid part, which
Speaker 1: is that, like, um something else, like in terms of
Speaker 1: the narratives that we tell ourselves about sex, I am
Speaker 1: in my top era and right now, and I never
Speaker 1: saw that for myself because I love that for you.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, what is Phoebe? Phoebe sends a hearty Phoebe.
Speaker 1: Are you also in your top era? We're all in
Speaker 1: our top eras well. I'm in my ace era. Actually,
Speaker 1: oh I love an ace era too. But like my
Speaker 1: point is, like I have kind of even though I
Speaker 1: was a top for my first relationship, which was a
Speaker 1: year and a half long relationship, I basically rescinded to
Speaker 1: like being a bottom for like a decade. Um, not
Speaker 1: exclusively a bottom like I topped here and there, but
Speaker 1: like I told myself, like, my preference is bottoming, and
Speaker 1: this is what I enjoy, and this is just what easy,
Speaker 1: what's easiest. But like, honestly, I was just picking the
Speaker 1: thing that made me the least anxious, and that's not
Speaker 1: a good enough reason to like pick a sexual preference.
Speaker 1: Like I would much rather challenge myself. So I think
Speaker 1: that's so cool, especially considering that you are also I
Speaker 1: think the most fem you have ever been. I love
Speaker 1: I love that that like is directly correlating to you
Speaker 1: entering like a more I mean maybe like dominant or
Speaker 1: aggressive like part of your sexuality. Um. I love that
Speaker 1: you're a blouse. I love that I'm a blouse. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm actually a blouse and um, I yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it was maybe a byproduct of like dating someone who
Speaker 1: was maybe more of a bottom. But like when I
Speaker 1: did top, I was like awoken and I was like,
Speaker 1: I had no idea that I had all of this
Speaker 1: energy and me it had been a few years since
Speaker 1: I had topped, and I was like, I love this.
Speaker 1: What have I been borrowing? What have I been borrowing
Speaker 1: myself from? You know? Um, but that I think I
Speaker 1: actually feel like I know a lot of people. I'm
Speaker 1: wondering if you know people who you know were tops
Speaker 1: there for like years and years and then one day
Speaker 1: they were like, oh my god, I'm a bottom and
Speaker 1: I had no idea, Like I I was kind of
Speaker 1: I was kind of the opposite. I was like a
Speaker 1: bottom for so long and discovered really actually I became
Speaker 1: a top post transition really, but I actually am kind
Speaker 1: of true verse. I can really go either way. Really
Speaker 1: depends on the person. I do love topping though it's
Speaker 1: so fun, and I also think it is as someone
Speaker 1: who is very verse and has had bottom eras top eras.
Speaker 1: I do think that there is a certain amount of
Speaker 1: hiding you can do as a bottom. I have definitely
Speaker 1: had times where I've been a bottom where I felt
Speaker 1: like sex was something that happened to me rather than
Speaker 1: something I was like a really active participant in um.
Speaker 1: And I do find that when I am topping, like
Speaker 1: I'm much more engaged and unless able to to be guarded,
Speaker 1: which I do think goes against what society tells us,
Speaker 1: which is that, like, you know that the top, the
Speaker 1: like aggressor insex is the more like masculine, dominant like
Speaker 1: guarded one, the one who's like bringing less of their
Speaker 1: emotions and like less vulnerability to sex. Um, why do
Speaker 1: you think that I I have found in my own
Speaker 1: experience it to be like very much the opposite. Like
Speaker 1: I really like when I am the top in a
Speaker 1: sexual scenario, I feel like I'm being much more active
Speaker 1: and like caring for the person that I'm topping, and
Speaker 1: it breaks me out of myself. That makes sense to me.
Speaker 1: I mean when when I am bottoming, I feel like
Speaker 1: I just don't want to do it. I feel like
Speaker 1: a total pillow princess, like I really just want to
Speaker 1: lay there. And so yeah, I mean, obviously these are
Speaker 1: really rudimentary like ideas of of topping and bottoming, like
Speaker 1: you can be a very dominant bottom if you want
Speaker 1: to or whatever. But that was not me. I was
Speaker 1: just like, I'm tired, and you need to make all
Speaker 1: the decisions, please, because it's not really about work, Like
Speaker 1: I'm happy to put in the work, but I don't
Speaker 1: want to make decisions. And that's kind of where I'm
Speaker 1: coming from now. It's like interesting that you brought up
Speaker 1: like me being very fem right now and like me
Speaker 1: landing at where I am with my gender. It's like
Speaker 1: I do really want to be bossed around. And I
Speaker 1: know that's like a really flat way of looking at gender,
Speaker 1: but like sometimes it is really affirming for someone to
Speaker 1: come in and like tell you what to do. Um
Speaker 1: and I I I think a out of the reasons
Speaker 1: that I attract TOPS is because you know, I'm like
Speaker 1: wearing lingerie and like a lot of in like my
Speaker 1: photos or like I just you know, have a fem
Speaker 1: vibe sometimes not all the time, but like depending on
Speaker 1: the photo, and so you know, people want me to
Speaker 1: be their momy, you know what I mean. People get
Speaker 1: really stuck on the trappings and trimmings of things, and
Speaker 1: they make a lot of expectations about what you're into
Speaker 1: based on how you show up in the world. And
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think it's about like mascrofem man
Speaker 1: or woman gender at all. I think it's really interesting
Speaker 1: that people see you in a more feminine presentation and
Speaker 1: expect you to be less assertive or dominant sexually. And
Speaker 1: I just like that you are like finding a version
Speaker 1: of yourself that is going to show up in the
Speaker 1: world in the sissy way that you want to. And
Speaker 1: also like fuck someone, like the ship out of someone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's really cool. There is a lot of
Speaker 1: code switching that has to happen sometimes for me, Like
Speaker 1: whether I show up in the bedroom as like very
Speaker 1: dummy or like very like pillow princess is usually contingent on, honestly,
Speaker 1: the size of the person, like if I'm gonna if
Speaker 1: I'm like fucking a twink, they want me to be daddy,
Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, cool, like I'll be dead. I
Speaker 1: mean I'm never I don't really like I'll reject the
Speaker 1: term daddy, but like that's the vibe of what they want,
Speaker 1: and so if they need me to be that, like sure,
Speaker 1: like I will, I will do that. Um. But I
Speaker 1: sometimes feel like it's so weird, but like and I
Speaker 1: wish this wasn't true, but like sometimes you know, you
Speaker 1: have to code switch, and you have to like put
Speaker 1: on a specific kind of vibe for guys to be
Speaker 1: in you. And I think sometimes the most I think
Speaker 1: the reason I have, you know, been a quote unquote
Speaker 1: bottom for so long is in large part because I've
Speaker 1: been trying to present like my most feminine self and
Speaker 1: show up as that person, like show up as myself
Speaker 1: in the bedroom. Um, And so you know that's like
Speaker 1: the role they want me to play, but like in
Speaker 1: in reality it's like I I actually like, if I
Speaker 1: really want to get laid, like I do have to
Speaker 1: look like a man a lot of the times, not
Speaker 1: to everybody, because some guys are into andreas. Sometimes I
Speaker 1: think the best partner for me is someone who's into fagotry,
Speaker 1: into general nonconformity, like someone who really wants to play
Speaker 1: with me. But I mean not all of them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I do find that who I don't need to
Speaker 1: code switch for or like adjust my presentation or like
Speaker 1: feel worried about how I'm being viewed is for women,
Speaker 1: and like that is a part of my sexuality that
Speaker 1: I want to spend more time with. But certainly like
Speaker 1: in my sexual experiences with women, like I did not
Speaker 1: feel like I had to fulfill some kind of like
Speaker 1: expectation for them, which was really nice. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: you're going to hate that I'm bringing this up, But
Speaker 1: like I think a lot about the Euphoria special episode
Speaker 1: with Hunter Shaffer where she's in the therapist office and
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen the screen grab everywhere, but she
Speaker 1: says something to the effect of I've kind of built
Speaker 1: my entire girlhood based on what men want and what
Speaker 1: men desire, and that is like so embarrassing, and that
Speaker 1: hit me so hard, Like that moment of television hit
Speaker 1: me so hard because I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I really have built like my mustache or like my
Speaker 1: Jim routine, or like my wardrobe around being a track
Speaker 1: dive two men. And at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: like I want to fuck faggots, and I want to
Speaker 1: fuck people that are on the gender spectrum, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, And and I I do think obviously
Speaker 1: a lot of times we say faggots, people think men,
Speaker 1: but like I that's not my definition of faggot. And
Speaker 1: I know there's a class of women of trans women
Speaker 1: that identify as faggots general that I know, yeah, and
Speaker 1: the general conforming people that you know count themselves among faggots.
Speaker 1: And like I'm I'm hot for general not conformity, and
Speaker 1: so that's what I want to pull in. And that
Speaker 1: was a really big shift for me in like my
Speaker 1: gender expression and like what I kind of wanted out
Speaker 1: of the world. And even though I still have to
Speaker 1: code switch, even though rather I indulge in a code
Speaker 1: switch sometimes sometimes you know, I just want it and
Speaker 1: that's it. But I think the best sex for me
Speaker 1: comes from when I can actually be myself. And I
Speaker 1: think that I think about the Hunter Shapeer thing a lot.
Speaker 1: You know, I have not seen that episode, and like
Speaker 1: we all know how I feel about euphoria, but I
Speaker 1: think coming at this from the point of view of
Speaker 1: someone who's attracted to men and women, I in the
Speaker 1: early days of my transition, like so much of the
Speaker 1: affirmation I got was from feeling sexually desired by men,
Speaker 1: specifically for the feminine way I presented um. But then
Speaker 1: as I started to get further along in my transition
Speaker 1: and presenting as a woman, the thing that was more
Speaker 1: affirming for me was women seeing me as a woman
Speaker 1: and not not always in a sexual way. And I
Speaker 1: think one of the one of the things I realized
Speaker 1: very early on is, especially when you're talking about transamorous men,
Speaker 1: is like that affirmation that you get from them is
Speaker 1: like so fleeting and fickle, but it is really powerful,
Speaker 1: and I think I'm at a point where it doesn't
Speaker 1: really matter to me as much. But again, like that
Speaker 1: could also be as I was talking about before, just
Speaker 1: like a product of circumstances and a lie that I
Speaker 1: tell myself, I don't know where I get validation from now,
Speaker 1: I don't know where I get sexual validation from. I
Speaker 1: might not get it. I don't feel very sexually embodied
Speaker 1: where I am now, which is like really weird for
Speaker 1: me because it's something that at a different point on
Speaker 1: my timeline was extremely important and like kind of central
Speaker 1: to the way I interacted with the world. Yeah, it's so,
Speaker 1: I mean, like it's funny because like we pretend to
Speaker 1: like have all the answers, and I think a lot
Speaker 1: of times, especially when all this stuff gets entangled in gender,
Speaker 1: like we tiptoe around what we actually want to say
Speaker 1: because we don't want to, you know, negate or invalidate
Speaker 1: what our gender experience has been and we don't want
Speaker 1: to be actually totally forthcoming about it. And but like obviously,
Speaker 1: I mean with this is just for me specifically, but
Speaker 1: you know, I still have a certain kind of privilege
Speaker 1: of like passing as a man to some people, or
Speaker 1: some people perceive me as a man, and so I
Speaker 1: benefit from that sometimes. But I also feel like I
Speaker 1: just can't hold onto that like too much, otherwise it's
Speaker 1: going to inform so much of like what I think
Speaker 1: I deserve. You know. It's a really it's a really
Speaker 1: slipper of Charlie. It's a really slippery slope because I
Speaker 1: have similar dark thoughts where I'm sometimes miss the sex
Speaker 1: that I used to have when I was when I
Speaker 1: was a boy, not that I was ever a boy,
Speaker 1: when I was pretending to be a boy, I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe when you were doing boy drag when Yeah, like
Speaker 1: I sometimes really miss gay sex guard and that is
Speaker 1: a that is a really hard thing to admit to
Speaker 1: think of out because there's so much baggage that comes
Speaker 1: with it, and I almost feel like, um, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm waiting for someone to like come out and be like, see,
Speaker 1: see you were it's all fake, we were right. But
Speaker 1: I have to, you know, own up to that because
Speaker 1: it's true. It's how I spent most of my life, Like,
Speaker 1: the majority of my life up until now, I most
Speaker 1: of my sexual experience was that. Um, a much smaller
Speaker 1: portion of my sexual experience has been having sex with
Speaker 1: people who saw me as a woman. So yeah, and
Speaker 1: that's I feel like I'm hopefully like on that cusp
Speaker 1: of a moment where like I feel like I don't
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have to need sex with men that need
Speaker 1: to perceive me as a man. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like I I mean as I'm like exploring like body
Speaker 1: modification and like looking at like how I dress more,
Speaker 1: and like I I feel like my gender expression is
Speaker 1: now represented my grinder profile or whatever. It's like I am.
Speaker 1: I'm reconciled to the fact that like I won't, I
Speaker 1: will be having sex with a different pool of people now.
Speaker 1: But that's the pool of people that I want to
Speaker 1: have sex with. And even if it feels more difficult
Speaker 1: to me or anyone like, it's ultimately worth it. Question mark.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's I I understand because I am passed
Speaker 1: a point in my life where I want to have
Speaker 1: sex with people who aren't queer and who won't get it,
Speaker 1: and who don't care about all of that other stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm no longer looking for validation other than sexual from sex,
Speaker 1: or or that's at least the goal. M Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think so too. I I would hope that's that's true.
Speaker 1: If I get like a gender affirmation, it would just
Speaker 1: be like a a lucky byproduct, I would hope. But
Speaker 1: I want I want someone who's not who's not going
Speaker 1: to care and like I want to have sex with
Speaker 1: someone who wants to fuck a queer body and not
Speaker 1: that's anything else period. That's exactly where I'm at. Like
Speaker 1: the guys that slide into my d m s that
Speaker 1: are like immediately get it. Yeah, that's my I'm like,
Speaker 1: there's this that trade in Orlando that I talked about
Speaker 1: the other episode. That trade is like he's like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get you so fucking pregnant. Like that's like his
Speaker 1: vibe and that. Like those guys, I'm like, you see
Speaker 1: me girl, Like okay, let's do this. Like, oh, I
Speaker 1: would love to get you pregnant, friend, No, I I
Speaker 1: actually think I would like to see you get pregnant,
Speaker 1: Like I feel like you should do like a pregnancy
Speaker 1: photo shoot. Like James Charles. Why are you just bringing
Speaker 1: with James Charles? You know you are the one who's upset.
Speaker 1: You brought it up every time you brought it up.
Speaker 1: Every time. It's one of us brings up James Charles
Speaker 1: almost every episode. Okay, So producer Phoebe has blessed us
Speaker 1: with some really great questions trying to dig even further
Speaker 1: into our personal lives. So, Fran are you existentially massochistic
Speaker 1: or sadistic or both or neither m M. I went
Speaker 1: to dinner with my co organizers of Brooklyn Liberation last
Speaker 1: Friday and we were literally just like you know, getting
Speaker 1: pizza at some restaurant, and we got onto this topic
Speaker 1: almost immediately. I don't even know how it happened, but
Speaker 1: like I'm a very like I'm an energy feeler. UM.
Speaker 1: I don't know what like label that is, but like
Speaker 1: I'm someone who I'm turned on by what you're turned
Speaker 1: on by. UM, I definitely personally and into a more
Speaker 1: kind of massochistic or rather what's the different? Maybe the
Speaker 1: difference maybe we should clarify do you do you do
Speaker 1: you enjoy receiving pain or do you enjoy giving pain?
Speaker 1: I prefer receiving pain, but I love to give it
Speaker 1: if you're into it. I'm never going to be the
Speaker 1: one that's like I want you to feel pain, but
Speaker 1: I will ask you to slap me like in the face.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. I do know what you mean,
Speaker 1: and that I was gonna say. I to ask you
Speaker 1: the question, what are what's your relationship to that kind
Speaker 1: of like you know how that comes into bedroom. I
Speaker 1: actually want to I want to hear what you think
Speaker 1: my answer is, and then I want to give you
Speaker 1: the real answer. I think that you love pain insects,
Speaker 1: but I think that you like to give it as
Speaker 1: much as you like to receive it. I think in
Speaker 1: maybe some of your past, like you maybe were the
Speaker 1: pain giver, and you, like I think from what I
Speaker 1: know about you, like you like to be the person
Speaker 1: in control of the situation. Obviously in a B D
Speaker 1: s M relationship, like both partners are meant to have
Speaker 1: control and that's that's key to it working. But like
Speaker 1: I think you like to give, but like I think,
Speaker 1: deep down in your heart, you would much rather just
Speaker 1: receive and not have to do any of the work. Um. Wow,
Speaker 1: you you got it, like almost exactly right. Clarify what
Speaker 1: what's what's the what's the addendum? Okay, So I I
Speaker 1: think I like the aesthetic of doling out pain and punishment,
Speaker 1: whether the whips. Yeah, And I do think a lot
Speaker 1: of the pain You're right is about control, and there
Speaker 1: are specific things like I'm a biter. I really like
Speaker 1: I'm a really hard biter. Um, I love to, like,
Speaker 1: you know, give a fun little spanking. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: I think it's less about sex and more like I
Speaker 1: think me as a person, I do enjoy a level
Speaker 1: of pain. I like making things hard for myself. Um yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And I definitely am um a physical, emotional, and spiritual masochist.
Speaker 1: And your pain threshold is very high. I feel like, yes,
Speaker 1: I'm very good at enduring pain, both in like a
Speaker 1: very specific localized sense and in a more existential way
Speaker 1: as well. I have a hard time finding partners that
Speaker 1: will like kind of incentivize that kind of pain play, Like,
Speaker 1: I feel like I usually have to ask for it.
Speaker 1: But like I think in general, when it comes to
Speaker 1: like most people that or maybe middle have middle of
Speaker 1: the road sex life, it's like we're too scared to
Speaker 1: ask about those things. But if you're into it, you
Speaker 1: should go for it, you know, with the sign obviously.
Speaker 1: I think the way it shakes out for me is
Speaker 1: that I don't want to receive pain from someone who
Speaker 1: asks if they can dole it out. I want to
Speaker 1: be the one who asks for it. And then on
Speaker 1: the flip side, I don't want to give pain to
Speaker 1: someone who really needs it. I want it to be
Speaker 1: something that I ask for and they offer up to me.
Speaker 1: Control play control by Jenne Jacks Jennet Jackson said, this
Speaker 1: is the lock about control. I knew you were at
Speaker 1: Oh my god, the same worm brain. Um well, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad we were able to have that conversation
Speaker 1: without invoking fifty shades of grace on how I mean,
Speaker 1: I just still could. We're still good. Thank you for
Speaker 1: listening to another one of our Pride bonus episodes. You
Speaker 1: can follow me and Fran online if you want to, um,
Speaker 1: I'm everywhere at Rose Dam you and I'm at France
Speaker 1: squish coat anywhere you want, and also follow our burner
Speaker 1: Instagram account at like a Virgin for and send us
Speaker 1: some questions like what secrets do you want us to
Speaker 1: dish out in the next special Pride episode, of which
Speaker 1: we are releasing every week this Pride Month. Yes, and
Speaker 1: thank you so much to our producer Phoebe and our
Speaker 1: whole team at my heart that's right, See you later, Visions,