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Speaker 1: Wham bam, thank you Frand that's a hat right there. Also,

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Speaker 1: franceled is a hot Fran sold so stupid. No one

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Speaker 1: is allowed to buy that hat. What porn category or

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Speaker 1: specific video erotica made you realize that you were queer? Well?

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Speaker 1: I actually was reminded about this this morning because, um,

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Speaker 1: I was on Twitter and Holly Berry quote tweeted something

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Speaker 1: about the Flynn Stones, and I was remembering that her

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Speaker 1: and Kyle McLaughlin in that movie were one of my

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Speaker 1: sexual awakenings. Um, but that that feels that feels a

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Speaker 1: little close to like talking about, you know, like a

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Speaker 1: formative piece of media as we would in a normal episode.

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Speaker 1: But I did think they were really sexy. My Internet

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Speaker 1: had like parental controls on it, so I actually couldn't

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Speaker 1: access porn from my home computer because it would like

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Speaker 1: send a little like Larry, Larry, you can't go here whatever.

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Speaker 1: But I was able to like, you know, search on

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Speaker 1: YouTube like boys Kissing, which would lead me to basically

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Speaker 1: clips of porn without the porn in it, like what

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Speaker 1: everything that happens before after? That's my favorite part. I

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Speaker 1: can't watch porn unless it has a storyline. Do you

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Speaker 1: watch a lot of porn. No, no, not really. I

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Speaker 1: watch a lot of Only Fans. I think that, honestly,

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Speaker 1: that's something that I'm discovering about. Like what turns me

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Speaker 1: on is like a live component or like an intimate

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Speaker 1: component of like me feeling like I know where I

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Speaker 1: am invested in, like the porn actor in some way.

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Speaker 1: And Only Fans makes like performers a lot more human

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Speaker 1: and a lot more accessible, and you get to see

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Speaker 1: more of their every day, and so that I think

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Speaker 1: brings me closer to something that is like a turn on.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that even makes sense, but like

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Speaker 1: I also like I am very this is like maybe

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Speaker 1: t M I, but like I love like comboys because

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Speaker 1: it's like a live thing, you know, and like, so

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Speaker 1: that's so interesting. Isn't that weird? But I think it.

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Speaker 1: I think it makes sense for you, um like that

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Speaker 1: you need some kind of personal investment to get off.

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Speaker 1: I think that there's like a there's an intimacy in that,

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Speaker 1: and like sometimes you know when you like send tips

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Speaker 1: or whatever and they say your name or they say

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Speaker 1: whatever your screen name is, and I'm like, like that

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Speaker 1: is like what I like. I like that, like the

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Speaker 1: intimacy do you also look for intimacy in your personal

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Speaker 1: sex life, like do you need do you need like

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Speaker 1: some kind of connection with the people you're hooking up with,

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Speaker 1: or like can you do really casual sex? I I

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Speaker 1: definitely in the last year have tried to do more

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Speaker 1: like a non hookups, like people that I see once

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Speaker 1: or twice and then I never see again. It's never

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Speaker 1: as satisfying as when I'm you know, I've at least

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Speaker 1: been chatting with that person for a little bit, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think I definitely do look for I don't even

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Speaker 1: know if intimacy is the right word, but it because

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Speaker 1: that word can be very loaded in the romantic terrain,

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Speaker 1: but it really is intimacy or maybe safety, I think.

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Speaker 1: But I think you can have intimacy with someone who

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Speaker 1: you only have sex with once, like you can have

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Speaker 1: really intimate sex with a complete stranger. In fact, that

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Speaker 1: is like my favorite kind of interaction is something that

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Speaker 1: feels really intimate but actually has no commitment element to it,

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Speaker 1: Like it doesn't like it could I can maybe never

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Speaker 1: see this person again, but I get the intimacy still,

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Speaker 1: which that's kind of why I love like for play,

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Speaker 1: and I love that that kind of build up. What

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Speaker 1: about you liked, I d you need intimacy to have sex,

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Speaker 1: I say that kind of physics. I I certainly don't UM,

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Speaker 1: and I certainly do not, and I actually kind of

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Speaker 1: prefer casual encounters UM to use the language of Craigslist.

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Speaker 1: And I almost have recently started to wonder if I

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Speaker 1: might fall somewhere and like the demi romantic spectrum. But

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Speaker 1: I also don't know if that's like more of a

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Speaker 1: byproduct of circumstance rather than something that actually is like

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Speaker 1: deeply true about me. But you know, like the obviously

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm coming at this through the lens of

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Speaker 1: of my life pre pandemic, and I feel like I

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Speaker 1: can't use that excuse forever, Like my sexuality can't always

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Speaker 1: have an asterisk on it, because like we are at

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Speaker 1: least somewhat back to you know, quote unquote normal in

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Speaker 1: the ways in which we we can have sex. But

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Speaker 1: I still think about my sexuality in terms of like

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Speaker 1: my old life, which was like pre pandemic, before I

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Speaker 1: lived in Los Angeles, when I mostly my most fulfilling

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Speaker 1: sexual encounters were like I was traveling so much, and

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Speaker 1: like I loved um, you know, having a having a

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Speaker 1: support in every store I'm having, you know, like like

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Speaker 1: finding new lovers in every city. You know, I would,

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Speaker 1: I would be traveling and I would hook up with

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Speaker 1: a new person every night, and like that was so

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Speaker 1: fulfilling to me, just the constant newness because I am

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Speaker 1: definitely a person who it is really hard for me

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Speaker 1: to be seen intimately in a in a deep way.

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Speaker 1: I don't mean just like the pure like aesthetics of it.

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Speaker 1: I think it does become difficult for me to let

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Speaker 1: my guard down with people I'm having sex with, and

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Speaker 1: I know that that can be super fulfilling. Like actually,

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Speaker 1: the last lover I had, um lover, that word, not lover.

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Speaker 1: The last person I've had sex with was someone who

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Speaker 1: really challenged that for me, and it led to a

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Speaker 1: really amazing sexual encounter, someone who kind of wouldn't let

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Speaker 1: me have the wall up and engage with them in

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Speaker 1: a different way. But yeah, so, so I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that's just like, um, this thing that I've done

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Speaker 1: to guard myself. I don't know if that actually works

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Speaker 1: for me anymore. It certainly was at one point in time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I think something of the same thing, but

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Speaker 1: in the reverse. It's like I think that I actually

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Speaker 1: required safety in my interactions with people to my detriment

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Speaker 1: and actually did not have as much sex as I

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Speaker 1: could have had in my early twenties because I was

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Speaker 1: just too scared of being hurt, or too scared of

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Speaker 1: random encounters or like seeing someone for only one night.

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Speaker 1: But like you actually kind of answered a question that

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask, which is like defense mechanisms

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Speaker 1: come up in everyone's bedrooms, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: And so it makes sense that, you know, the way

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Speaker 1: that we sleep with people is a byproduct of like

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Speaker 1: how we come up in the world. And I think that,

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Speaker 1: like everyone everyone, everyone should like challenge their desires and

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Speaker 1: they're like needs, they're kind of what they think their

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Speaker 1: needs are in the bedroom because a lot of times

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Speaker 1: we tell ourselves and I'm honestly just talking to myself

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Speaker 1: at this point because I've like thought about this so much,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like I tell myself a narrative about

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Speaker 1: me and what I like and what I don't like,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, I do too, and it's it's it's an

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Speaker 1: extension of what we were talking about last week when

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Speaker 1: when I talked about how you know, I like to

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Speaker 1: present as more aloof than I actually am, you know, publicly,

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Speaker 1: and I do definitely that definitely extends to my private

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Speaker 1: life too. I am very guarded. I'm a cancer. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm an extremely like moody, emotional person. But I do

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Speaker 1: have a very hard shell, um and very soft meat

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Speaker 1: fighting shell. Crap, mom, yes, um I this I you know,

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Speaker 1: We're in a serious part of the converst So I'm

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Speaker 1: going to move us along to the stupid part, which

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Speaker 1: is that, like, um something else, like in terms of

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Speaker 1: the narratives that we tell ourselves about sex, I am

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Speaker 1: in my top era and right now, and I never

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Speaker 1: saw that for myself because I love that for you.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, what is Phoebe? Phoebe sends a hearty Phoebe.

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Speaker 1: Are you also in your top era? We're all in

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Speaker 1: our top eras well. I'm in my ace era. Actually,

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Speaker 1: oh I love an ace era too. But like my

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Speaker 1: point is, like I have kind of even though I

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Speaker 1: was a top for my first relationship, which was a

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Speaker 1: year and a half long relationship, I basically rescinded to

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Speaker 1: like being a bottom for like a decade. Um, not

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Speaker 1: exclusively a bottom like I topped here and there, but

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Speaker 1: like I told myself, like, my preference is bottoming, and

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Speaker 1: this is what I enjoy, and this is just what easy,

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Speaker 1: what's easiest. But like, honestly, I was just picking the

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Speaker 1: thing that made me the least anxious, and that's not

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Speaker 1: a good enough reason to like pick a sexual preference.

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Speaker 1: Like I would much rather challenge myself. So I think

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Speaker 1: that's so cool, especially considering that you are also I

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Speaker 1: think the most fem you have ever been. I love

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Speaker 1: I love that that like is directly correlating to you

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Speaker 1: entering like a more I mean maybe like dominant or

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Speaker 1: aggressive like part of your sexuality. Um. I love that

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Speaker 1: you're a blouse. I love that I'm a blouse. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm actually a blouse and um, I yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: it was maybe a byproduct of like dating someone who

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Speaker 1: was maybe more of a bottom. But like when I

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Speaker 1: did top, I was like awoken and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I had no idea that I had all of this

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Speaker 1: energy and me it had been a few years since

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Speaker 1: I had topped, and I was like, I love this.

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Speaker 1: What have I been borrowing? What have I been borrowing

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Speaker 1: myself from? You know? Um, but that I think I

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Speaker 1: actually feel like I know a lot of people. I'm

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Speaker 1: wondering if you know people who you know were tops

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Speaker 1: there for like years and years and then one day

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Speaker 1: they were like, oh my god, I'm a bottom and

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Speaker 1: I had no idea, Like I I was kind of

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Speaker 1: I was kind of the opposite. I was like a

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Speaker 1: bottom for so long and discovered really actually I became

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Speaker 1: a top post transition really, but I actually am kind

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Speaker 1: of true verse. I can really go either way. Really

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Speaker 1: depends on the person. I do love topping though it's

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Speaker 1: so fun, and I also think it is as someone

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Speaker 1: who is very verse and has had bottom eras top eras.

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Speaker 1: I do think that there is a certain amount of

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Speaker 1: hiding you can do as a bottom. I have definitely

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Speaker 1: had times where I've been a bottom where I felt

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Speaker 1: like sex was something that happened to me rather than

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Speaker 1: something I was like a really active participant in um.

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Speaker 1: And I do find that when I am topping, like

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Speaker 1: I'm much more engaged and unless able to to be guarded,

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Speaker 1: which I do think goes against what society tells us,

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Speaker 1: which is that, like, you know that the top, the

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Speaker 1: like aggressor insex is the more like masculine, dominant like

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Speaker 1: guarded one, the one who's like bringing less of their

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Speaker 1: emotions and like less vulnerability to sex. Um, why do

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Speaker 1: you think that I I have found in my own

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Speaker 1: experience it to be like very much the opposite. Like

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Speaker 1: I really like when I am the top in a

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Speaker 1: sexual scenario, I feel like I'm being much more active

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Speaker 1: and like caring for the person that I'm topping, and

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Speaker 1: it breaks me out of myself. That makes sense to me.

200
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Speaker 1: I mean when when I am bottoming, I feel like

201
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Speaker 1: I just don't want to do it. I feel like

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Speaker 1: a total pillow princess, like I really just want to

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Speaker 1: lay there. And so yeah, I mean, obviously these are

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Speaker 1: really rudimentary like ideas of of topping and bottoming, like

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Speaker 1: you can be a very dominant bottom if you want

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Speaker 1: to or whatever. But that was not me. I was

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Speaker 1: just like, I'm tired, and you need to make all

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Speaker 1: the decisions, please, because it's not really about work, Like

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to put in the work, but I don't

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Speaker 1: want to make decisions. And that's kind of where I'm

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Speaker 1: coming from now. It's like interesting that you brought up

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Speaker 1: like me being very fem right now and like me

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Speaker 1: landing at where I am with my gender. It's like

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Speaker 1: I do really want to be bossed around. And I

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Speaker 1: know that's like a really flat way of looking at gender,

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Speaker 1: but like sometimes it is really affirming for someone to

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Speaker 1: come in and like tell you what to do. Um

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Speaker 1: and I I I think a out of the reasons

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Speaker 1: that I attract TOPS is because you know, I'm like

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Speaker 1: wearing lingerie and like a lot of in like my

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Speaker 1: photos or like I just you know, have a fem

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Speaker 1: vibe sometimes not all the time, but like depending on

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Speaker 1: the photo, and so you know, people want me to

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Speaker 1: be their momy, you know what I mean. People get

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Speaker 1: really stuck on the trappings and trimmings of things, and

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Speaker 1: they make a lot of expectations about what you're into

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Speaker 1: based on how you show up in the world. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think it's about like mascrofem man

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Speaker 1: or woman gender at all. I think it's really interesting

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Speaker 1: that people see you in a more feminine presentation and

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Speaker 1: expect you to be less assertive or dominant sexually. And

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Speaker 1: I just like that you are like finding a version

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Speaker 1: of yourself that is going to show up in the

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Speaker 1: world in the sissy way that you want to. And

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Speaker 1: also like fuck someone, like the ship out of someone. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's really cool. There is a lot of

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Speaker 1: code switching that has to happen sometimes for me, Like

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Speaker 1: whether I show up in the bedroom as like very

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Speaker 1: dummy or like very like pillow princess is usually contingent on, honestly,

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Speaker 1: the size of the person, like if I'm gonna if

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Speaker 1: I'm like fucking a twink, they want me to be daddy,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, cool, like I'll be dead. I

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Speaker 1: mean I'm never I don't really like I'll reject the

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Speaker 1: term daddy, but like that's the vibe of what they want,

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Speaker 1: and so if they need me to be that, like sure,

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Speaker 1: like I will, I will do that. Um. But I

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Speaker 1: sometimes feel like it's so weird, but like and I

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Speaker 1: wish this wasn't true, but like sometimes you know, you

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Speaker 1: have to code switch, and you have to like put

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Speaker 1: on a specific kind of vibe for guys to be

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Speaker 1: in you. And I think sometimes the most I think

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Speaker 1: the reason I have, you know, been a quote unquote

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Speaker 1: bottom for so long is in large part because I've

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Speaker 1: been trying to present like my most feminine self and

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Speaker 1: show up as that person, like show up as myself

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Speaker 1: in the bedroom. Um, And so you know that's like

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Speaker 1: the role they want me to play, but like in

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Speaker 1: in reality it's like I I actually like, if I

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Speaker 1: really want to get laid, like I do have to

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Speaker 1: look like a man a lot of the times, not

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Speaker 1: to everybody, because some guys are into andreas. Sometimes I

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Speaker 1: think the best partner for me is someone who's into fagotry,

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Speaker 1: into general nonconformity, like someone who really wants to play

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Speaker 1: with me. But I mean not all of them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I do find that who I don't need to

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Speaker 1: code switch for or like adjust my presentation or like

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Speaker 1: feel worried about how I'm being viewed is for women,

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Speaker 1: and like that is a part of my sexuality that

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Speaker 1: I want to spend more time with. But certainly like

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Speaker 1: in my sexual experiences with women, like I did not

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Speaker 1: feel like I had to fulfill some kind of like

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Speaker 1: expectation for them, which was really nice. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: you're going to hate that I'm bringing this up, But

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Speaker 1: like I think a lot about the Euphoria special episode

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Speaker 1: with Hunter Shaffer where she's in the therapist office and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen the screen grab everywhere, but she

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Speaker 1: says something to the effect of I've kind of built

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Speaker 1: my entire girlhood based on what men want and what

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Speaker 1: men desire, and that is like so embarrassing, and that

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Speaker 1: hit me so hard, Like that moment of television hit

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Speaker 1: me so hard because I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I really have built like my mustache or like my

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Speaker 1: Jim routine, or like my wardrobe around being a track

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Speaker 1: dive two men. And at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: like I want to fuck faggots, and I want to

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Speaker 1: fuck people that are on the gender spectrum, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, And and I I do think obviously

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Speaker 1: a lot of times we say faggots, people think men,

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Speaker 1: but like I that's not my definition of faggot. And

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Speaker 1: I know there's a class of women of trans women

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Speaker 1: that identify as faggots general that I know, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: the general conforming people that you know count themselves among faggots.

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Speaker 1: And like I'm I'm hot for general not conformity, and

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Speaker 1: so that's what I want to pull in. And that

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Speaker 1: was a really big shift for me in like my

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Speaker 1: gender expression and like what I kind of wanted out

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Speaker 1: of the world. And even though I still have to

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Speaker 1: code switch, even though rather I indulge in a code

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Speaker 1: switch sometimes sometimes you know, I just want it and

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Speaker 1: that's it. But I think the best sex for me

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Speaker 1: comes from when I can actually be myself. And I

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Speaker 1: think that I think about the Hunter Shapeer thing a lot.

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Speaker 1: You know, I have not seen that episode, and like

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Speaker 1: we all know how I feel about euphoria, but I

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Speaker 1: think coming at this from the point of view of

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Speaker 1: someone who's attracted to men and women, I in the

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Speaker 1: early days of my transition, like so much of the

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Speaker 1: affirmation I got was from feeling sexually desired by men,

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Speaker 1: specifically for the feminine way I presented um. But then

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Speaker 1: as I started to get further along in my transition

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Speaker 1: and presenting as a woman, the thing that was more

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Speaker 1: affirming for me was women seeing me as a woman

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Speaker 1: and not not always in a sexual way. And I

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Speaker 1: think one of the one of the things I realized

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Speaker 1: very early on is, especially when you're talking about transamorous men,

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Speaker 1: is like that affirmation that you get from them is

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Speaker 1: like so fleeting and fickle, but it is really powerful,

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Speaker 1: and I think I'm at a point where it doesn't

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Speaker 1: really matter to me as much. But again, like that

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Speaker 1: could also be as I was talking about before, just

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Speaker 1: like a product of circumstances and a lie that I

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Speaker 1: tell myself, I don't know where I get validation from now,

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Speaker 1: I don't know where I get sexual validation from. I

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Speaker 1: might not get it. I don't feel very sexually embodied

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Speaker 1: where I am now, which is like really weird for

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Speaker 1: me because it's something that at a different point on

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Speaker 1: my timeline was extremely important and like kind of central

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Speaker 1: to the way I interacted with the world. Yeah, it's so,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like it's funny because like we pretend to

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Speaker 1: like have all the answers, and I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of times, especially when all this stuff gets entangled in gender,

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Speaker 1: like we tiptoe around what we actually want to say

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Speaker 1: because we don't want to, you know, negate or invalidate

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Speaker 1: what our gender experience has been and we don't want

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Speaker 1: to be actually totally forthcoming about it. And but like obviously,

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Speaker 1: I mean with this is just for me specifically, but

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Speaker 1: you know, I still have a certain kind of privilege

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Speaker 1: of like passing as a man to some people, or

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Speaker 1: some people perceive me as a man, and so I

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Speaker 1: benefit from that sometimes. But I also feel like I

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00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,640
Speaker 1: just can't hold onto that like too much, otherwise it's

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Speaker 1: going to inform so much of like what I think

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Speaker 1: I deserve. You know. It's a really it's a really

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Speaker 1: slipper of Charlie. It's a really slippery slope because I

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Speaker 1: have similar dark thoughts where I'm sometimes miss the sex

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Speaker 1: that I used to have when I was when I

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Speaker 1: was a boy, not that I was ever a boy,

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Speaker 1: when I was pretending to be a boy, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe when you were doing boy drag when Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: I sometimes really miss gay sex guard and that is

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Speaker 1: a that is a really hard thing to admit to

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Speaker 1: think of out because there's so much baggage that comes

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Speaker 1: with it, and I almost feel like, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm waiting for someone to like come out and be like, see,

355
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Speaker 1: see you were it's all fake, we were right. But

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Speaker 1: I have to, you know, own up to that because

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Speaker 1: it's true. It's how I spent most of my life, Like,

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Speaker 1: the majority of my life up until now, I most

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Speaker 1: of my sexual experience was that. Um, a much smaller

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Speaker 1: portion of my sexual experience has been having sex with

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Speaker 1: people who saw me as a woman. So yeah, and

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Speaker 1: that's I feel like I'm hopefully like on that cusp

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Speaker 1: of a moment where like I feel like I don't

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't have to need sex with men that need

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Speaker 1: to perceive me as a man. You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Like I I mean as I'm like exploring like body

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Speaker 1: modification and like looking at like how I dress more,

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Speaker 1: and like I I feel like my gender expression is

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Speaker 1: now represented my grinder profile or whatever. It's like I am.

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00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: I'm reconciled to the fact that like I won't, I

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Speaker 1: will be having sex with a different pool of people now.

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Speaker 1: But that's the pool of people that I want to

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Speaker 1: have sex with. And even if it feels more difficult

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Speaker 1: to me or anyone like, it's ultimately worth it. Question mark.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's I I understand because I am passed

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Speaker 1: a point in my life where I want to have

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Speaker 1: sex with people who aren't queer and who won't get it,

378
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 1: and who don't care about all of that other stuff.

379
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Speaker 1: I'm no longer looking for validation other than sexual from sex,

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Speaker 1: or or that's at least the goal. M Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think so too. I I would hope that's that's true.

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Speaker 1: If I get like a gender affirmation, it would just

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Speaker 1: be like a a lucky byproduct, I would hope. But

384
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Speaker 1: I want I want someone who's not who's not going

385
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Speaker 1: to care and like I want to have sex with

386
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 1: someone who wants to fuck a queer body and not

387
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 1: that's anything else period. That's exactly where I'm at. Like

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00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: the guys that slide into my d m s that

389
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:16,239
Speaker 1: are like immediately get it. Yeah, that's my I'm like,

390
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,400
Speaker 1: there's this that trade in Orlando that I talked about

391
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,959
Speaker 1: the other episode. That trade is like he's like, I'm

392
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: gonna get you so fucking pregnant. Like that's like his

393
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: vibe and that. Like those guys, I'm like, you see

394
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Speaker 1: me girl, Like okay, let's do this. Like, oh, I

395
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,439
Speaker 1: would love to get you pregnant, friend, No, I I

396
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 1: actually think I would like to see you get pregnant,

397
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Speaker 1: Like I feel like you should do like a pregnancy

398
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: photo shoot. Like James Charles. Why are you just bringing

399
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: with James Charles? You know you are the one who's upset.

400
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: You brought it up every time you brought it up.

401
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 1: Every time. It's one of us brings up James Charles

402
00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 1: almost every episode. Okay, So producer Phoebe has blessed us

403
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: with some really great questions trying to dig even further

404
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 1: into our personal lives. So, Fran are you existentially massochistic

405
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 1: or sadistic or both or neither m M. I went

406
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: to dinner with my co organizers of Brooklyn Liberation last

407
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: Friday and we were literally just like you know, getting

408
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 1: pizza at some restaurant, and we got onto this topic

409
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 1: almost immediately. I don't even know how it happened, but

410
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 1: like I'm a very like I'm an energy feeler. UM.

411
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 1: I don't know what like label that is, but like

412
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: I'm someone who I'm turned on by what you're turned

413
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: on by. UM, I definitely personally and into a more

414
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: kind of massochistic or rather what's the different? Maybe the

415
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: difference maybe we should clarify do you do you do

416
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: you enjoy receiving pain or do you enjoy giving pain?

417
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: I prefer receiving pain, but I love to give it

418
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Speaker 1: if you're into it. I'm never going to be the

419
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 1: one that's like I want you to feel pain, but

420
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 1: I will ask you to slap me like in the face.

421
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. I do know what you mean,

422
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: and that I was gonna say. I to ask you

423
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: the question, what are what's your relationship to that kind

424
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: of like you know how that comes into bedroom. I

425
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: actually want to I want to hear what you think

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00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: my answer is, and then I want to give you

427
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 1: the real answer. I think that you love pain insects,

428
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: but I think that you like to give it as

429
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: much as you like to receive it. I think in

430
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: maybe some of your past, like you maybe were the

431
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: pain giver, and you, like I think from what I

432
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 1: know about you, like you like to be the person

433
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: in control of the situation. Obviously in a B D

434
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 1: s M relationship, like both partners are meant to have

435
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 1: control and that's that's key to it working. But like

436
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: I think you like to give, but like I think,

437
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: deep down in your heart, you would much rather just

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00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: receive and not have to do any of the work. Um. Wow,

439
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: you you got it, like almost exactly right. Clarify what

440
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: what's what's the what's the addendum? Okay, So I I

441
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: think I like the aesthetic of doling out pain and punishment,

442
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 1: whether the whips. Yeah, And I do think a lot

443
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: of the pain You're right is about control, and there

444
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: are specific things like I'm a biter. I really like

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00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: I'm a really hard biter. Um, I love to, like,

446
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: you know, give a fun little spanking. But yeah, I

447
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: I think it's less about sex and more like I

448
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: think me as a person, I do enjoy a level

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00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: of pain. I like making things hard for myself. Um yeah, yeah,

450
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: And I definitely am um a physical, emotional, and spiritual masochist.

451
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: And your pain threshold is very high. I feel like, yes,

452
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 1: I'm very good at enduring pain, both in like a

453
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: very specific localized sense and in a more existential way

454
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: as well. I have a hard time finding partners that

455
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: will like kind of incentivize that kind of pain play, Like,

456
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: I feel like I usually have to ask for it.

457
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: But like I think in general, when it comes to

458
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: like most people that or maybe middle have middle of

459
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: the road sex life, it's like we're too scared to

460
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: ask about those things. But if you're into it, you

461
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 1: should go for it, you know, with the sign obviously.

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00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: I think the way it shakes out for me is

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00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: that I don't want to receive pain from someone who

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00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 1: asks if they can dole it out. I want to

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00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: be the one who asks for it. And then on

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00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: the flip side, I don't want to give pain to

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00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: someone who really needs it. I want it to be

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00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: something that I ask for and they offer up to me.

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00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: Control play control by Jenne Jacks Jennet Jackson said, this

470
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 1: is the lock about control. I knew you were at

471
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: Oh my god, the same worm brain. Um well, that's amazing.

472
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: I'm so glad we were able to have that conversation

473
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 1: without invoking fifty shades of grace on how I mean,

474
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: I just still could. We're still good. Thank you for

475
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: listening to another one of our Pride bonus episodes. You

476
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: can follow me and Fran online if you want to, um,

477
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: I'm everywhere at Rose Dam you and I'm at France

478
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: squish coat anywhere you want, and also follow our burner

479
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,959
Speaker 1: Instagram account at like a Virgin for and send us

480
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: some questions like what secrets do you want us to

481
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: dish out in the next special Pride episode, of which

482
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: we are releasing every week this Pride Month. Yes, and

483
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: thank you so much to our producer Phoebe and our

484
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: whole team at my heart that's right, See you later, Visions,