WEBVTT - Listener Mail: Intergalactic Planetary 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.080 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:12.879 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. Listener mail. 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:14.120 My name is Robert. 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:17.200 Lamb and I am Joe McCormick. And it's Monday, the 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:19.720 day of each week that we read back messages from 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:23.040 the Stuff to Blow Your Mind email address. If you 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:25.040 have never gotten in touch with us before, why not 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:27.720 give it a shot. You can email us at contact 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.240 at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Whatever kind 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.000 of message you want to send is welcome. We sort 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:37.440 of always prioritize feedback to recent episodes, especially if you've 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:39.880 got something interesting you'd like to add to a topic 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:43.320 we talked about. But whatever it is, send it on it. Okay, 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:45.680 I'm going to kick things off with a response to 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.360 our couple of episodes about pouring oil over the water. 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:53.800 This was a series on the idea that oil poured 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.480 over the top of the sea would calm the waves 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:59.800 and how that sounds rather unbelievable but there actually is 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:03.080 some truth to it to a limited extent. But yeah, 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:05.840 interesting phenomenon. And this is also the one where we 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:08.399 got into the stories of Benjamin Franklin walking around with 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:18.200 a hollow cane and pouring oil in people's ponds. Matt says, Hey, guys, 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:20.760 I was just listening to your first Oil and Troubled 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:22.760 Waters episode, and I thought I would share some of 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.640 the things that came to mind while listening. During the episode, 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.160 it seemed to be implied that given time, oil would 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.800 simply spread to cover the entire surface of water that 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:35.840 it was poured into. But this isn't the case. As 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.399 may come as no surprise, oil and water don't like 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:40.680 to interact with each other so much so that they 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:44.440 will actively position themselves in such a way to minimize 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:48.160 the area where the oil contacts the water, so far 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:52.880 as gravity, buoyancy, surface tension, etc. Will allow. As an example, 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.160 if you put a small drop of oil into water, 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:59.040 the oil will turn into a small bead as close 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.760 to a sphere the aforementioned factors will allow. This is 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:06.639 specifically because a sphere provides the smallest possible surface area 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:10.680 for a given volume, thus minimizing the interface between the 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.639 oil and the water. Now, something I think is pretty 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.000 cool that happens at the point of interface is the 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.720 water actually forms what amounts to a one atom thick 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:24.399 layer of ice. This is because the water molecules really 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.480 want to form hydrogen bonds, but this isn't possible with 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:31.320 the oils, and in overly simplified terms, it has to 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.440 double down on the bonds with the other water molecules 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:37.160 around it, forming into a structure like you would normally 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.760 find in ice. Ah, that's interesting that I had no idea, 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:44.799 Matt says. I studied molecular biology, and these thoughts also 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:47.600 reminded me of how the same kind of effect of 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:51.440 oil plumping together to minimize contact with water also affects 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:56.239 how proteins fold and become relatively stable in their intended structure. 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.079 You see, proteins are made up of segments that are 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:03.120 either hydrophilic meaning they like water, or hydrophobic, meaning they 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:06.480 don't like water, and the same physics that causes the 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.120 oil to clump also causes the hydrophobic segments to bury 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:13.560 themselves in the protein structure, away from the water surrounding 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.640 it and leaving the hydrophilic segments on the outside. It 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:21.560 sometimes takes some trial and error to help to get there, 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.720 but proteins use this to form and maintain their most 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:27.800 stable structure and the one that allows them to function. 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.080 Thanks for providing such breadth and depth in so many 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.880 topics to keep us entertained and educated. Matt, Well, thank 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.120 you for the insight, Matt. And that was really interesting 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:41.440 about the one molecule thick layer of ice at the interfew. 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.360 I'd never read or heard anything about that, but yeah, 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:46.400 I guess it would be good to clarify what is 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.960 happening with the oil in the water. And it is 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.760 interesting that we get these seemingly opposite reactions because you 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:57.280 can observe it like if you dump a drop of 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:01.440 oil into water and it sinks. If it sinks, it 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:04.600 will form this spherical ball that will float within the water, 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.960 eventually rising to the surface, and the oil will be 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:11.080 trying to cling to itself and repel contact with the water, 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:13.960 which is why it forms a sphere like that. It doesn't, 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:15.760 you know, it doesn't want to mix with the water. 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:20.320 But conversely, like we talked about in these two episodes, 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:22.960 some oils, when they float on top of the water 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:25.520 end up spreading out to form a film that is 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:29.400 one molecule thick. Why exactly does that happen? What's going 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.920 on at the molecular level. Well, I was just digging 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.960 through some chemistry textbooks to try to find the answer 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:38.600 to this, make sure I understood before commenting, and I 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.000 think I've got it figured out. So, first of all, 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:44.960 not all oils will spread out over the water's surface 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:50.440 like this. For example, paraffin oils like kerosene will not 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:53.480 spread out evenly on top of the water, while most 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.640 vegetable oils, the commonly used example in the experiments we've 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:01.480 talked about was pure olive oil, they do spread out 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:05.080 to form the monolayer. So what makes the difference? Well, 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:09.119 I found part of an answer in a book called 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:13.359 Physical Chemistry, Experimental and Theoretical by Gordon Van Prague. This 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:18.520 is Cambridge University Press, nineteen fifty and Van Prague clarifies 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:24.880 that quote substances whose molecules contain water soluble groups such 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:29.880 as cooh ANDCH two oh, et cetera. And then a 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:34.960 parenthetical long chain acids and alcohols will spread into surface 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:39.039 films on water. So according to this source, it is 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:43.080 large oil molecules that have some kind of water attracted 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:47.400 arm somewhere on them, somewhere on the molecule. So if 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:50.599 you picture a molecule sort of like a tree, one 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.479 branch of that molecule tree is water soluble, and this 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.480 type of arm on the molecule structure that has its 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.840 own reactive tendencies is called a group or functional group 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:04.360 in chemistry. So in oils with this particular structure, what 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:07.840 happens Well? I found more elaboration that helped clarify it 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:11.520 in another book, this time a physics book by Eric M. 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:15.159 Rogers called Physics for the Inquiring Mind The Methods, Nature 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:18.719 and Philosophy of Physical Science. This is Princeton University Press, 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.920 twenty eleven. So Rogers is in the middle of talking 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.840 about the experiments of Lord Rayleigh, which we brought up 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.479 in those episodes, and speaking of Lord Rayleigh, he says 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.640 he pictured a spreading drop of oil as a huddle 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:35.760 of molecules tumbling and crawling over each other till each 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.480 reached the water surface and could hitch one end to water. 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:43.960 For these oils have long chain molecules with a water 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:48.239 liking chemical group at one end. Once all the oil 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:51.400 molecules are thus attached, they should keep together in a 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:56.080 monomolecular carpet, showing little tendency to spread more. With just 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:59.400 enough oil for a given water surface, the layer would 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:03.640 be one molecule thick, with the molecules packed close and upright, 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:08.919 like the pile of velvet. With less oil, patches of 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:11.880 open water should be revealed. With more oil, there should 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:15.360 be excess puddles on the water, as on a greasy soup. 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:17.920 So I think that clarifies the answer. First of all, 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:20.440 whether or not the oil spreads out to become one 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.240 molecule thick on the surface of water depends on the 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.920 type of oil. It is oil molecules with a water 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:31.400 soluble group somewhere on them that do this. And it 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:34.360 happens because they all line up so that the water 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:38.080 attracted arm of the molecule is pointed down at the 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.760 water and the unattracted mass of the molecule is pointing 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:44.880 up away from the water, and they arrange themselves in 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:49.160 a single massive sheet layer, all oriented in the same 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:49.840 way like this. 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:53.960 Hmm, all right, right, that's illuminating. We still don't know 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:57.160 exactly what kind of oil Benjamin Franklin had in his cane. 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.160 Though I think it was olive oil. 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:01.400 You think so, yeah, I mean it would it would 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.360 make the most sense, right, And if what if your 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:07.960 cane were to leak unexpectedly, what kind of oil would 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:10.640 you want to have to deal with. I mean, obviously, 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:12.000 olive oil is not that bad. 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:14.400 Can you imagine how gross it would be to have 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.680 a cane that just leaks oil sometimes, like you're out 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:20.480 walking and oh it's coming out again. Oh I got 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.640 oil all over my hand. Oh boy, you go give 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:24.960 somebody a greasy handshake. 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:29.520 All right, Well, on that note, let's turn to some 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:34.920 of our listener mails concerning our recent episodes about anomaloust 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:45.079 photos and those photos possible connections to ancient aliens, ancient civilizations, 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:46.880 or anything else you want to connect to them. 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:49.840 If you're new to the show, to clarify meaning that 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:52.600 some people thought that and we don't. Right. 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.800 Yeah, it's made for a good discussion across three episodes anyway. 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:05.600 Mark writes then and says, Hi, guys, I'm listening to 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:09.480 your episodes on enigmatic objects in photos this week. I 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.640 like your take on walking through the debunking of these 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.880 types of photos. The whole low resolution theory on how 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:19.600 these photos become misunderstood is great. Something that came to 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:22.760 mind was that I don't even really need to know 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:27.040 anything about a particular photo, citing, etc. To know that 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:30.720 aliens haven't visited us. That's because I think most people 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:34.400 hugely underestimate the level of technology required to take an 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:38.840 interstellar trip. Not to say that interstellar travel is impossible, 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.000 just that it is very, very hard. As humans were 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:45.800 used to failing at spaceflight, We've seen so many rocket crashes, 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:49.000 satellite deorbits, and media about crashing your spaceship on an 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:51.960 alien moon. The thing is, we as humans are just 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.440 really bad at spaceflight at this point in our history. 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:57.760 We take this bias into how we imagine aliens might 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:01.000 interact with spaceflight, as if it might be common that 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:03.839 they would crash or be seen without wanting to be seen. 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.560 The level of technology required to literally compress space in 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:09.720 front of your spaceship so that you can get from 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.040 star to star in anything less than an eon is 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:15.839 absolutely massive. I've seen estimates that it would require something 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:18.439 on the order of all the energy contained in Jupiter's 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:20.600 mass to be able to achieve such a thing, even 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:24.720 for a short time. Aliens with that kind of technology 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.720 will have mastered the physical world. They won't be crashing 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:31.000 in roswell leaving alien corpses. They won't be placing visible 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.120 beacons on our seafloor. They won't be Whoopsie, we turned 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:36.800 on our headlights too bright and a fighter jet solace. 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:40.280 Those are human like errors that we expect but aren't realistic. 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:43.199 We will either see them because they want us to see, 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:46.160 or we won't see them. That paired to the fact 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.960 that many, many scientists dedicate their entire lives to detecting 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:54.120 alien life with the most sophisticated technology we have and 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.559 haven't come up with anything yet, it makes any testimony 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:01.479 these supposed alien experts give to Congress ridiculous and unbelievable 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.520 in my opinion, even without knowing anything more than how 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:06.920 the universe works on a physical level. Give have the 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.560 great work. Mark ps. Here's a photo of my friend 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:14.079 on our recent road trip through Roswell. We went to Carlsbad, 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.520 New Mexico to visit the caverns there and they were 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:21.640 absolutely life changingly interesting. Some intriguing history on cave exploring 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:24.960 comes from there, too, might be worth looking into as 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:26.000 an episode topic. 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:29.040 Oh man, yeah, the history of cave exploration. I think 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:32.880 it could be a great subject for us. But I 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:35.360 do want to comment on your photo here of your 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:38.440 friend posing next to Is this like a statue of 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:42.320 an alien installed about ten feet from the door of 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:47.880 a McDonald's. That's McDonald's, right, I don't know. I don't 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:52.679 recognize the branding there. So does the alien statue belong 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.800 to the McDonald's or is this a public monument somehow 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.120 situated in a McDonald's parking lot. 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:00.880 I don't know that. QP. See that sends for a 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:03.280 quarter pounder with cheeks, right, this has to be this 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:04.480 is a burger king, right. 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.680 Oh, I don't know. I mean it could be something else. 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.000 I saw McDonald's because I see like red and yellow. 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.440 That's McDonald's colors, isn't it. 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:15.720 I guess I don't know. I mean, we're as confused 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:16.839 as the aliens at this point. 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:20.439 If this alien does belong to the McDonald's, does does 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:23.160 do they just have like a lax corporate policy about 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.920 what kind of things franchise owners can put in the 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:28.120 parking lot? Could you put a statue of a t 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:29.960 rex in a McDonald's parking lot? 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.360 I mean, my guess is it's kind of like the different, 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:38.600 you know, public statues that you see endorsed by various cities, 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.320 where like, this is part of our identity now, and 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.640 therefore everyone who wants an alien statue in front of 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:46.600 their business can have one painted. 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.560 How you like you got the bronze fawns, you got 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:54.440 the RoboCop, you got the uh you got the McDonald's alien, 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:59.160 the quarter pounder alien. Yeah, but uh anyway, Sorry to 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:01.200 come back to the sub sense of your message, Mark, 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.439 I'm kind of two minds about this. On one hand, 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.520 the points you make are things that I'm sympathetic to, 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:12.040 and I used to be much more firmly in the 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:17.160 camp of you know, travel between stars is so difficult 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:22.720 that should massively wait our our starting I don't know 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:26.360 what you call it, the starting probability of us entertaining 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.840 ideas of alien visitation should wait that very low because 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.760 that's so difficult. Now I've kind of come around that 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:35.520 I don't think it's any more likely that we actually 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.080 have been visited by aliens. But I just don't place 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:41.160 as much emphasis on that kind of reasoning about the 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.120 difficulty of traveling between stars, because that's sort of another 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:47.200 one of those questions like the you know, I can't 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.240 understand how they could have done the work inside the 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:54.120 pyramids without leaving lamp black, so they must have had 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:57.840 electric lights. It's to be fair to you. It's not 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.160 quite that bad, but it is. It is sort of 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.720 in that zone of I can't see how someone could 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:06.480 have done this. Therefore it's very unlikely, you know, I 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.720 would allow that there's just lots of things we don't understand. 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.080 But on the other hand, I do see a kind 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.600 of I do see your point about the incongruity of 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.720 like the level of competence required to travel between stars, 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.760 have an interstellar civilization and visit the Earth, but then 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.800 also just be crashing all the time and showing up 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:27.640 on you know, appearing in the side view of a 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.880 jet fighter pilot's vision. That does seem kind of incongruous. 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:34.400 Yeah, the whole idea that like, oh, we got a 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:36.720 warehouse full of them, We've just been rounding them up. 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:39.800 Every time there's a wreck, we throw it, throw it 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:44.080 into the warehouse, I don't know. I mean it. As 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:47.200 far as like the vast distances and times involved in 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.280 all of this, I mean it. It certainly adds to 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:54.400 the contemplation, like when I sort of do any kind 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:59.840 of like navel gazing and stargazing and thinking about human 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:04.480 and some other possible intelligent life out there with the 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.240 technology to move around and visit us, you know, I 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.000 mean you end up thinking about, like, well, what does 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:16.040 it mean for a civilization to have that kind of technology, 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:18.640 to have that kind of travel, that kind of reach, 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.720 to perhaps have to deal with very long periods of time, 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:28.000 to have to deal with perhaps a movement towards the inorganic. 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.040 I mean, there are just so many there, you know, 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:34.240 there's so many ideas about what such a civilization might 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:38.520 be like, and it's all built along around, you know, 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:42.840 guesses and best guesses based on what we think life 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.320 could be elsewhere in the universe. So I mean it's 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:48.480 I love thinking about it, but it's it's really hard 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.800 to come to any kind of, you know, firm conclusion. 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.320 I agree. I mean, I do love speculating about this 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:57.160 kind of stuff, but when it comes down to judging 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:00.160 what really has happened or not, I guess I think 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.200 it's fair to be humble about the limitations of our imagination, 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.760 you know, us just trying to speculate about what aliens 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.960 could or couldn't do. I don't know that there's that 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.800 it's that fruitful. But then to come back on the 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:17.040 other hand, like I have similar thoughts, Mark, I mean, 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.880 like one is how come how come like we're seeing 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:25.400 saucers all the time but there is like absolutely no 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.840 radio frequency communication at all. That seems like a really 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:34.000 strange kind of mismatch there, Like wouldn't we be more 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:37.920 likely to pick up radio frequency communications or some kind 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:41.440 of signal of some kind and not be seeing spaceships? 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.640 Yeah, but then you can easily say, well, they don't 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:46.920 want you to. They're using a different bandwidth or something 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.880 that we just don't have access to. But then again 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:53.320 then you get into almost religious level where it's like, well, 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.160 of course you can't detect God, and then the answer 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.480 as well, if God is moving within the physical world, 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:01.720 then there might be like a footprint. There must be 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:07.080 some sort of sign that God has interacted with a 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:11.359 physics based world. So I don't know, you can just 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:12.879 run around in circles with all of this. 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:16.000 Well, yeah, actually this is a good comparison because while 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.760 I would say that I don't think you can use 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.959 science to prove that a god does not exist, you 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.240 can use science to prove that the Shroud of Turin 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:29.600 is a medieval forgery. And likewise, with like UFOs, I 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:32.040 don't think we have any way of saying like aliens 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:35.080 don't exist, or that you can know with certainty that 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:37.359 they've never been here. But you can look at the 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.960 supposed individual pieces of evidence and claims people make about 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.240 it and say like, yeah, this is not convincing. 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.960 Yeah yeah, so yeah you can again, you can spend 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.359 all day thinking about this this sort of thing, and 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:51.119 there's so many ways to spend it, you know. Some 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.040 of some of the ways of thinking about it involve 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:58.560 casting humanity as the most interesting thing that an interstellar 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.920 civilization could come across. But you know, maybe we should 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.800 think of ourselves. If each planet that has life and 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:09.879 is observable to some hypothetical alien is like a television channel, 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:14.600 perhaps we are not like peak MTV, Perhaps we are 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:18.320 c SPAN and you know, and that kind of lines 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:20.119 up with the idea that you know, we shouldn't be 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.320 thinking about there being anything privileged about the human viewpoint 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.800 of the cosmos or human identity. Maybe yeah, maybe we're 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.800 just only marginally interesting maybe important at the end of 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:31.760 the day, but you know, not the kind of thing 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:33.240 you give a lot of attention to. 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:36.959 But anyway, thanks again Mark for getting in touch interesting thoughts, 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.639 and I once again I appreciate the idea about the 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:41.960 history of cave exploration. I think we could come back 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:53.920 to that absolutely. Okay, we got another response to our 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:57.800 episode on the El Tana antenna. This is from Chris. 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:00.879 Chris says, Dear Robert and Joe, after listening to a 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.520 recent episode on the Altana and antenna, the point you 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:07.240 were making about you were making regarding low quality data 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.439 being used to make extraordinary claims is well received and 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:14.360 indeed a common problem in the larger community of UFO enthusiasts. 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:18.480 In the episode, this concept is introduced by mentioning the 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:23.119 recent UFO hearings by the Congressional Oversight Committee. This is 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:25.600 something that happened in the United States Congress. If you're 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.760 not up to speed, basically, there was whistleblower testimony that 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:34.199 included claims from one whistleblower that essentially amounted to this 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.639 guy saying that other people in the government had told 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:42.000 him that the government was in possession of crashed alien 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:47.160 spacecraft and alien bodies and had been using that technology 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:51.560 to reverse engineer other types of technology. And I think 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.080 we were just saying, like, you know, remain open minded, 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:56.679 but at this point, it's just it's a guy saying 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.959 other people told him something, So I would reserve judgment 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:04.280 until any actual solid evidence is presented. So, coming back 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:06.960 to Chris's message, while it is an aside from the 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:10.760 main concept you were discussing, this investigation is important for 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:15.360 multiple reasons unrelated to extraterrestrial non human intelligence, and it's 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.160 worrisome that aliens are a reason people are tuning out. 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:21.639 The primary concern of the whistleblowers grush at all is 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:25.520 that is that government spending is occurring on technological research 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:30.200 and development is occurring without congressional oversight. Contrary to mandates 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.560 in the Constitution. It is against the law for whistleblowers 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:36.560 to release their information and evidence to the public, which 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:40.159 is the reason the hearing is taking place. It introduces 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:43.399 the problem so that laws can be introduced to allow 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:46.919 whistleblowers to bring forth their evidence and not be immediately 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:51.720 arrested for leaking classified information. Matters of pilot safety and 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:55.080 the failure to declassify documents to the public as required 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.679 are also center stage. Bills have already been introduced by 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.480 the Senate Majority Leader Chuck and may be worth a 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:04.120 read for those interested, But I wanted to point out 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:09.119 one particular section per the quote Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Disclosure 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:12.439 Act of twenty twenty three, and then Chris includes a 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:16.080 link this is something that would require the disclosure if 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:20.879 such existed of recovered technologies of unknown origin and biological 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:25.320 evidence of non human intelligence. And then the I guess 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:29.320 the first item or statute from it exercise of imminent domain. 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:32.879 The Federal Government shall exercise imminent domain over any and 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:37.040 all recovered technologies of unknown origin and biological evidence of 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:40.640 non human intelligence that may be controlled by private persons 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:43.720 or entities in the interests of the public good. And 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:47.679 then back to Chris's message here, regardless of aliens, we 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:50.520 might look back in history and consider how certain laws 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:54.760 regarding matters of national security are interpreted and enforced, even 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:58.120 if UAPs are not real or aliens are not visiting US. 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:00.600 If this law passes, it may have very important use 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:04.399 to the US government. With the correct broad interpretation, perhaps 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:07.280 this law could be used to force companies doing business 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:10.760 on US soil to turn over any AI developed by 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:14.160 a foreign government or by another generative or self improving 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:17.160 AI system which may be considered to be a non 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:21.040 human intelligence. A non human intelligence may simply be quote 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:25.719 any AI, chatbot, etc. Regardless of actual levels of intelligence 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:28.720 or ability. We might imagine further legislation in the near 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:32.760 future that also allows the same imminent domain of non 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:36.360 human intelligence, regardless of source. I think this phrase will 0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:39.439 be very important in future legislation and used to ensure 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:42.400 that the US government can take over any AI system 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:46.960 of sufficient capability or concern. Best regards Chris. 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:48.200 That's a lot to think about. 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:52.719 That's an interesting point regarding the idea that the real 0:22:53.040 --> 0:23:00.560 purpose of the testimony is to try to force government 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:05.800 agents to disclose any knowledge they have of any knowledge 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:09.320 and any evidence they have of contact with aliens, alien technology, 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:13.040