1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. Listener mail. 3 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 2: My name is Robert. 4 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 3: Lamb and I am Joe McCormick. And it's Monday, the 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 3: day of each week that we read back messages from 6 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 3: the Stuff to Blow Your Mind email address. If you 7 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 3: have never gotten in touch with us before, why not 8 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 3: give it a shot. You can email us at contact 9 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 3: at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Whatever kind 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 3: of message you want to send is welcome. We sort 11 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 3: of always prioritize feedback to recent episodes, especially if you've 12 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 3: got something interesting you'd like to add to a topic 13 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 3: we talked about. But whatever it is, send it on it. Okay, 14 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 3: I'm going to kick things off with a response to 15 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 3: our couple of episodes about pouring oil over the water. 16 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 3: This was a series on the idea that oil poured 17 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 3: over the top of the sea would calm the waves 18 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 3: and how that sounds rather unbelievable but there actually is 19 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 3: some truth to it to a limited extent. But yeah, 20 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 3: interesting phenomenon. And this is also the one where we 21 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 3: got into the stories of Benjamin Franklin walking around with 22 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 3: a hollow cane and pouring oil in people's ponds. Matt says, Hey, guys, 23 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 3: I was just listening to your first Oil and Troubled 24 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 3: Waters episode, and I thought I would share some of 25 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 3: the things that came to mind while listening. During the episode, 26 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 3: it seemed to be implied that given time, oil would 27 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 3: simply spread to cover the entire surface of water that 28 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 3: it was poured into. But this isn't the case. As 29 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 3: may come as no surprise, oil and water don't like 30 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 3: to interact with each other so much so that they 31 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 3: will actively position themselves in such a way to minimize 32 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 3: the area where the oil contacts the water, so far 33 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 3: as gravity, buoyancy, surface tension, etc. Will allow. As an example, 34 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 3: if you put a small drop of oil into water, 35 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 3: the oil will turn into a small bead as close 36 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 3: to a sphere the aforementioned factors will allow. This is 37 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,639 Speaker 3: specifically because a sphere provides the smallest possible surface area 38 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 3: for a given volume, thus minimizing the interface between the 39 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 3: oil and the water. Now, something I think is pretty 40 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 3: cool that happens at the point of interface is the 41 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 3: water actually forms what amounts to a one atom thick 42 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,399 Speaker 3: layer of ice. This is because the water molecules really 43 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 3: want to form hydrogen bonds, but this isn't possible with 44 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 3: the oils, and in overly simplified terms, it has to 45 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 3: double down on the bonds with the other water molecules 46 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 3: around it, forming into a structure like you would normally 47 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 3: find in ice. Ah, that's interesting that I had no idea, 48 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 3: Matt says. I studied molecular biology, and these thoughts also 49 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 3: reminded me of how the same kind of effect of 50 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 3: oil plumping together to minimize contact with water also affects 51 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:56,239 Speaker 3: how proteins fold and become relatively stable in their intended structure. 52 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 3: You see, proteins are made up of segments that are 53 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 3: either hydrophilic meaning they like water, or hydrophobic, meaning they 54 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 3: don't like water, and the same physics that causes the 55 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 3: oil to clump also causes the hydrophobic segments to bury 56 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 3: themselves in the protein structure, away from the water surrounding 57 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 3: it and leaving the hydrophilic segments on the outside. It 58 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 3: sometimes takes some trial and error to help to get there, 59 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 3: but proteins use this to form and maintain their most 60 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 3: stable structure and the one that allows them to function. 61 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 3: Thanks for providing such breadth and depth in so many 62 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 3: topics to keep us entertained and educated. Matt, Well, thank 63 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 3: you for the insight, Matt. And that was really interesting 64 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 3: about the one molecule thick layer of ice at the interfew. 65 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 3: I'd never read or heard anything about that, but yeah, 66 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 3: I guess it would be good to clarify what is 67 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 3: happening with the oil in the water. And it is 68 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 3: interesting that we get these seemingly opposite reactions because you 69 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 3: can observe it like if you dump a drop of 70 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 3: oil into water and it sinks. If it sinks, it 71 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 3: will form this spherical ball that will float within the water, 72 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 3: eventually rising to the surface, and the oil will be 73 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 3: trying to cling to itself and repel contact with the water, 74 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 3: which is why it forms a sphere like that. It doesn't, 75 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 3: you know, it doesn't want to mix with the water. 76 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 3: But conversely, like we talked about in these two episodes, 77 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 3: some oils, when they float on top of the water 78 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 3: end up spreading out to form a film that is 79 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 3: one molecule thick. Why exactly does that happen? What's going 80 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 3: on at the molecular level. Well, I was just digging 81 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 3: through some chemistry textbooks to try to find the answer 82 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 3: to this, make sure I understood before commenting, and I 83 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 3: think I've got it figured out. So, first of all, 84 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 3: not all oils will spread out over the water's surface 85 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 3: like this. For example, paraffin oils like kerosene will not 86 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 3: spread out evenly on top of the water, while most 87 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 3: vegetable oils, the commonly used example in the experiments we've 88 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 3: talked about was pure olive oil, they do spread out 89 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 3: to form the monolayer. So what makes the difference? Well, 90 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,119 Speaker 3: I found part of an answer in a book called 91 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 3: Physical Chemistry, Experimental and Theoretical by Gordon Van Prague. This 92 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 3: is Cambridge University Press, nineteen fifty and Van Prague clarifies 93 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 3: that quote substances whose molecules contain water soluble groups such 94 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 3: as cooh ANDCH two oh, et cetera. And then a 95 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 3: parenthetical long chain acids and alcohols will spread into surface 96 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 3: films on water. So according to this source, it is 97 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 3: large oil molecules that have some kind of water attracted 98 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 3: arm somewhere on them, somewhere on the molecule. So if 99 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 3: you picture a molecule sort of like a tree, one 100 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 3: branch of that molecule tree is water soluble, and this 101 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 3: type of arm on the molecule structure that has its 102 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 3: own reactive tendencies is called a group or functional group 103 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 3: in chemistry. So in oils with this particular structure, what 104 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 3: happens Well? I found more elaboration that helped clarify it 105 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 3: in another book, this time a physics book by Eric M. 106 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 3: Rogers called Physics for the Inquiring Mind The Methods, Nature 107 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 3: and Philosophy of Physical Science. This is Princeton University Press, 108 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 3: twenty eleven. So Rogers is in the middle of talking 109 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 3: about the experiments of Lord Rayleigh, which we brought up 110 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 3: in those episodes, and speaking of Lord Rayleigh, he says 111 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 3: he pictured a spreading drop of oil as a huddle 112 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 3: of molecules tumbling and crawling over each other till each 113 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 3: reached the water surface and could hitch one end to water. 114 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 3: For these oils have long chain molecules with a water 115 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,239 Speaker 3: liking chemical group at one end. Once all the oil 116 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 3: molecules are thus attached, they should keep together in a 117 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 3: monomolecular carpet, showing little tendency to spread more. With just 118 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: enough oil for a given water surface, the layer would 119 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 3: be one molecule thick, with the molecules packed close and upright, 120 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 3: like the pile of velvet. With less oil, patches of 121 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 3: open water should be revealed. With more oil, there should 122 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 3: be excess puddles on the water, as on a greasy soup. 123 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 3: So I think that clarifies the answer. First of all, 124 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 3: whether or not the oil spreads out to become one 125 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 3: molecule thick on the surface of water depends on the 126 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 3: type of oil. It is oil molecules with a water 127 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 3: soluble group somewhere on them that do this. And it 128 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 3: happens because they all line up so that the water 129 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 3: attracted arm of the molecule is pointed down at the 130 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 3: water and the unattracted mass of the molecule is pointing 131 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 3: up away from the water, and they arrange themselves in 132 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 3: a single massive sheet layer, all oriented in the same 133 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 3: way like this. 134 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 2: Hmm, all right, right, that's illuminating. We still don't know 135 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: exactly what kind of oil Benjamin Franklin had in his cane. 136 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 3: Though I think it was olive oil. 137 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 2: You think so, yeah, I mean it would it would 138 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 2: make the most sense, right, And if what if your 139 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 2: cane were to leak unexpectedly, what kind of oil would 140 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 2: you want to have to deal with. I mean, obviously, 141 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 2: olive oil is not that bad. 142 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 3: Can you imagine how gross it would be to have 143 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 3: a cane that just leaks oil sometimes, like you're out 144 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 3: walking and oh it's coming out again. Oh I got 145 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 3: oil all over my hand. Oh boy, you go give 146 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 3: somebody a greasy handshake. 147 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: All right, Well, on that note, let's turn to some 148 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 2: of our listener mails concerning our recent episodes about anomaloust 149 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 2: photos and those photos possible connections to ancient aliens, ancient civilizations, 150 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 2: or anything else you want to connect to them. 151 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 3: If you're new to the show, to clarify meaning that 152 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 3: some people thought that and we don't. Right. 153 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's made for a good discussion across three episodes anyway. 154 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 2: Mark writes then and says, Hi, guys, I'm listening to 155 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 2: your episodes on enigmatic objects in photos this week. I 156 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 2: like your take on walking through the debunking of these 157 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 2: types of photos. The whole low resolution theory on how 158 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: these photos become misunderstood is great. Something that came to 159 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 2: mind was that I don't even really need to know 160 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 2: anything about a particular photo, citing, etc. To know that 161 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 2: aliens haven't visited us. That's because I think most people 162 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 2: hugely underestimate the level of technology required to take an 163 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 2: interstellar trip. Not to say that interstellar travel is impossible, 164 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 2: just that it is very, very hard. As humans were 165 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 2: used to failing at spaceflight, We've seen so many rocket crashes, 166 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 2: satellite deorbits, and media about crashing your spaceship on an 167 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 2: alien moon. The thing is, we as humans are just 168 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 2: really bad at spaceflight at this point in our history. 169 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 2: We take this bias into how we imagine aliens might 170 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 2: interact with spaceflight, as if it might be common that 171 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,839 Speaker 2: they would crash or be seen without wanting to be seen. 172 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 2: The level of technology required to literally compress space in 173 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 2: front of your spaceship so that you can get from 174 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 2: star to star in anything less than an eon is 175 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,839 Speaker 2: absolutely massive. I've seen estimates that it would require something 176 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 2: on the order of all the energy contained in Jupiter's 177 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 2: mass to be able to achieve such a thing, even 178 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 2: for a short time. Aliens with that kind of technology 179 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 2: will have mastered the physical world. They won't be crashing 180 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 2: in roswell leaving alien corpses. They won't be placing visible 181 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 2: beacons on our seafloor. They won't be Whoopsie, we turned 182 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 2: on our headlights too bright and a fighter jet solace. 183 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 2: Those are human like errors that we expect but aren't realistic. 184 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,199 Speaker 2: We will either see them because they want us to see, 185 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 2: or we won't see them. That paired to the fact 186 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 2: that many, many scientists dedicate their entire lives to detecting 187 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 2: alien life with the most sophisticated technology we have and 188 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 2: haven't come up with anything yet, it makes any testimony 189 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,479 Speaker 2: these supposed alien experts give to Congress ridiculous and unbelievable 190 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 2: in my opinion, even without knowing anything more than how 191 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 2: the universe works on a physical level. Give have the 192 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 2: great work. Mark ps. Here's a photo of my friend 193 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 2: on our recent road trip through Roswell. We went to Carlsbad, 194 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 2: New Mexico to visit the caverns there and they were 195 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 2: absolutely life changingly interesting. Some intriguing history on cave exploring 196 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 2: comes from there, too, might be worth looking into as 197 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 2: an episode topic. 198 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 3: Oh man, yeah, the history of cave exploration. I think 199 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 3: it could be a great subject for us. But I 200 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 3: do want to comment on your photo here of your 201 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 3: friend posing next to Is this like a statue of 202 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 3: an alien installed about ten feet from the door of 203 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 3: a McDonald's. That's McDonald's, right, I don't know. I don't 204 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 3: recognize the branding there. So does the alien statue belong 205 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 3: to the McDonald's or is this a public monument somehow 206 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 3: situated in a McDonald's parking lot. 207 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 2: I don't know that. QP. See that sends for a 208 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 2: quarter pounder with cheeks, right, this has to be this 209 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 2: is a burger king, right. 210 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know. I mean it could be something else. 211 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 3: I saw McDonald's because I see like red and yellow. 212 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 3: That's McDonald's colors, isn't it. 213 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: I guess I don't know. I mean, we're as confused 214 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:16,839 Speaker 2: as the aliens at this point. 215 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 3: If this alien does belong to the McDonald's, does does 216 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 3: do they just have like a lax corporate policy about 217 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 3: what kind of things franchise owners can put in the 218 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 3: parking lot? Could you put a statue of a t 219 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 3: rex in a McDonald's parking lot? 220 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 2: I mean, my guess is it's kind of like the different, 221 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 2: you know, public statues that you see endorsed by various cities, 222 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 2: where like, this is part of our identity now, and 223 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 2: therefore everyone who wants an alien statue in front of 224 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 2: their business can have one painted. 225 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 3: How you like you got the bronze fawns, you got 226 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 3: the RoboCop, you got the uh you got the McDonald's alien, 227 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 3: the quarter pounder alien. Yeah, but uh anyway, Sorry to 228 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 3: come back to the sub sense of your message, Mark, 229 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 3: I'm kind of two minds about this. On one hand, 230 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 3: the points you make are things that I'm sympathetic to, 231 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 3: and I used to be much more firmly in the 232 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 3: camp of you know, travel between stars is so difficult 233 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 3: that should massively wait our our starting I don't know 234 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 3: what you call it, the starting probability of us entertaining 235 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 3: ideas of alien visitation should wait that very low because 236 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 3: that's so difficult. Now I've kind of come around that 237 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 3: I don't think it's any more likely that we actually 238 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 3: have been visited by aliens. But I just don't place 239 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 3: as much emphasis on that kind of reasoning about the 240 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 3: difficulty of traveling between stars, because that's sort of another 241 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 3: one of those questions like the you know, I can't 242 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 3: understand how they could have done the work inside the 243 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 3: pyramids without leaving lamp black, so they must have had 244 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 3: electric lights. It's to be fair to you. It's not 245 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 3: quite that bad, but it is. It is sort of 246 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 3: in that zone of I can't see how someone could 247 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 3: have done this. Therefore it's very unlikely, you know, I 248 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 3: would allow that there's just lots of things we don't understand. 249 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 3: But on the other hand, I do see a kind 250 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 3: of I do see your point about the incongruity of 251 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 3: like the level of competence required to travel between stars, 252 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 3: have an interstellar civilization and visit the Earth, but then 253 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 3: also just be crashing all the time and showing up 254 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 3: on you know, appearing in the side view of a 255 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 3: jet fighter pilot's vision. That does seem kind of incongruous. 256 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole idea that like, oh, we got a 257 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 2: warehouse full of them, We've just been rounding them up. 258 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 2: Every time there's a wreck, we throw it, throw it 259 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 2: into the warehouse, I don't know. I mean it. As 260 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 2: far as like the vast distances and times involved in 261 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 2: all of this, I mean it. It certainly adds to 262 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 2: the contemplation, like when I sort of do any kind 263 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 2: of like navel gazing and stargazing and thinking about human 264 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 2: and some other possible intelligent life out there with the 265 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 2: technology to move around and visit us, you know, I 266 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: mean you end up thinking about, like, well, what does 267 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 2: it mean for a civilization to have that kind of technology, 268 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 2: to have that kind of travel, that kind of reach, 269 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 2: to perhaps have to deal with very long periods of time, 270 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 2: to have to deal with perhaps a movement towards the inorganic. 271 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 2: I mean, there are just so many there, you know, 272 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 2: there's so many ideas about what such a civilization might 273 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 2: be like, and it's all built along around, you know, 274 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 2: guesses and best guesses based on what we think life 275 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 2: could be elsewhere in the universe. So I mean it's 276 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 2: I love thinking about it, but it's it's really hard 277 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 2: to come to any kind of, you know, firm conclusion. 278 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 3: I agree. I mean, I do love speculating about this 279 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 3: kind of stuff, but when it comes down to judging 280 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 3: what really has happened or not, I guess I think 281 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 3: it's fair to be humble about the limitations of our imagination, 282 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 3: you know, us just trying to speculate about what aliens 283 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 3: could or couldn't do. I don't know that there's that 284 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 3: it's that fruitful. But then to come back on the 285 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 3: other hand, like I have similar thoughts, Mark, I mean, 286 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 3: like one is how come how come like we're seeing 287 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 3: saucers all the time but there is like absolutely no 288 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 3: radio frequency communication at all. That seems like a really 289 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 3: strange kind of mismatch there, Like wouldn't we be more 290 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 3: likely to pick up radio frequency communications or some kind 291 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 3: of signal of some kind and not be seeing spaceships? 292 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, but then you can easily say, well, they don't 293 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 2: want you to. They're using a different bandwidth or something 294 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 2: that we just don't have access to. But then again 295 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 2: then you get into almost religious level where it's like, well, 296 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 2: of course you can't detect God, and then the answer 297 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 2: as well, if God is moving within the physical world, 298 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 2: then there might be like a footprint. There must be 299 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 2: some sort of sign that God has interacted with a 300 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 2: physics based world. So I don't know, you can just 301 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 2: run around in circles with all of this. 302 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, actually this is a good comparison because while 303 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 3: I would say that I don't think you can use 304 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,959 Speaker 3: science to prove that a god does not exist, you 305 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 3: can use science to prove that the Shroud of Turin 306 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 3: is a medieval forgery. And likewise, with like UFOs, I 307 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 3: don't think we have any way of saying like aliens 308 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 3: don't exist, or that you can know with certainty that 309 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 3: they've never been here. But you can look at the 310 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 3: supposed individual pieces of evidence and claims people make about 311 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 3: it and say like, yeah, this is not convincing. 312 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so yeah you can again, you can spend 313 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 2: all day thinking about this this sort of thing, and 314 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 2: there's so many ways to spend it, you know. Some 315 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 2: of some of the ways of thinking about it involve 316 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 2: casting humanity as the most interesting thing that an interstellar 317 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 2: civilization could come across. But you know, maybe we should 318 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 2: think of ourselves. If each planet that has life and 319 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 2: is observable to some hypothetical alien is like a television channel, 320 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 2: perhaps we are not like peak MTV, Perhaps we are 321 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 2: c SPAN and you know, and that kind of lines 322 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 2: up with the idea that you know, we shouldn't be 323 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 2: thinking about there being anything privileged about the human viewpoint 324 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 2: of the cosmos or human identity. Maybe yeah, maybe we're 325 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 2: just only marginally interesting maybe important at the end of 326 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 2: the day, but you know, not the kind of thing 327 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 2: you give a lot of attention to. 328 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,959 Speaker 3: But anyway, thanks again Mark for getting in touch interesting thoughts, 329 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 3: and I once again I appreciate the idea about the 330 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 3: history of cave exploration. I think we could come back 331 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 3: to that absolutely. Okay, we got another response to our 332 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 3: episode on the El Tana antenna. This is from Chris. 333 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 3: Chris says, Dear Robert and Joe, after listening to a 334 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 3: recent episode on the Altana and antenna, the point you 335 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 3: were making about you were making regarding low quality data 336 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 3: being used to make extraordinary claims is well received and 337 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 3: indeed a common problem in the larger community of UFO enthusiasts. 338 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 3: In the episode, this concept is introduced by mentioning the 339 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 3: recent UFO hearings by the Congressional Oversight Committee. This is 340 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 3: something that happened in the United States Congress. If you're 341 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 3: not up to speed, basically, there was whistleblower testimony that 342 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 3: included claims from one whistleblower that essentially amounted to this 343 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 3: guy saying that other people in the government had told 344 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 3: him that the government was in possession of crashed alien 345 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 3: spacecraft and alien bodies and had been using that technology 346 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 3: to reverse engineer other types of technology. And I think 347 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 3: we were just saying, like, you know, remain open minded, 348 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 3: but at this point, it's just it's a guy saying 349 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,959 Speaker 3: other people told him something, So I would reserve judgment 350 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 3: until any actual solid evidence is presented. So, coming back 351 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 3: to Chris's message, while it is an aside from the 352 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 3: main concept you were discussing, this investigation is important for 353 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 3: multiple reasons unrelated to extraterrestrial non human intelligence, and it's 354 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 3: worrisome that aliens are a reason people are tuning out. 355 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 3: The primary concern of the whistleblowers grush at all is 356 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 3: that is that government spending is occurring on technological research 357 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 3: and development is occurring without congressional oversight. Contrary to mandates 358 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 3: in the Constitution. It is against the law for whistleblowers 359 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 3: to release their information and evidence to the public, which 360 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 3: is the reason the hearing is taking place. It introduces 361 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 3: the problem so that laws can be introduced to allow 362 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 3: whistleblowers to bring forth their evidence and not be immediately 363 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 3: arrested for leaking classified information. Matters of pilot safety and 364 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 3: the failure to declassify documents to the public as required 365 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 3: are also center stage. Bills have already been introduced by 366 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 3: the Senate Majority Leader Chuck and may be worth a 367 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 3: read for those interested, But I wanted to point out 368 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 3: one particular section per the quote Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Disclosure 369 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,439 Speaker 3: Act of twenty twenty three, and then Chris includes a 370 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 3: link this is something that would require the disclosure if 371 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 3: such existed of recovered technologies of unknown origin and biological 372 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 3: evidence of non human intelligence. And then the I guess 373 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 3: the first item or statute from it exercise of imminent domain. 374 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 3: The Federal Government shall exercise imminent domain over any and 375 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 3: all recovered technologies of unknown origin and biological evidence of 376 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 3: non human intelligence that may be controlled by private persons 377 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 3: or entities in the interests of the public good. And 378 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 3: then back to Chris's message here, regardless of aliens, we 379 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 3: might look back in history and consider how certain laws 380 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 3: regarding matters of national security are interpreted and enforced, even 381 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 3: if UAPs are not real or aliens are not visiting US. 382 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 3: If this law passes, it may have very important use 383 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 3: to the US government. With the correct broad interpretation, perhaps 384 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 3: this law could be used to force companies doing business 385 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 3: on US soil to turn over any AI developed by 386 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 3: a foreign government or by another generative or self improving 387 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 3: AI system which may be considered to be a non 388 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 3: human intelligence. A non human intelligence may simply be quote 389 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,719 Speaker 3: any AI, chatbot, etc. Regardless of actual levels of intelligence 390 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 3: or ability. We might imagine further legislation in the near 391 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 3: future that also allows the same imminent domain of non 392 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 3: human intelligence, regardless of source. I think this phrase will 393 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 3: be very important in future legislation and used to ensure 394 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 3: that the US government can take over any AI system 395 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 3: of sufficient capability or concern. Best regards Chris. 396 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 2: That's a lot to think about. 397 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,719 Speaker 3: That's an interesting point regarding the idea that the real 398 00:22:53,040 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 3: purpose of the testimony is to try to force government 399 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 3: agents to disclose any knowledge they have of any knowledge 400 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 3: and any evidence they have of contact with aliens, alien technology, 401 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 3: alien bodies, whatever. I feel like this is something where 402 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 3: I hope like skeptics and UFO enthusiasts can be on 403 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 3: the same page about because I mean, obviously, I think 404 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 3: if the government had alien bodies and alien ships and 405 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 3: all that they should be open about that, I would 406 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 3: be in favor of transparency. Nobody with good faith wants 407 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 3: to cover up. At the same time, I think I 408 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 3: would acknowledge that while we're probably on the same page 409 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,959 Speaker 3: about that, if they don't actually possess anything like that, 410 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 3: which I think is probably what's most likely the case. 411 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 3: Then all they could say is, well, we don't actually 412 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 3: have anything like that, weren't able to find it, in 413 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 3: which case the UFO enthusiasts can always just say, you know, aha, 414 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,959 Speaker 3: see the cover up continues. So I don't know that's tricky, 415 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 3: but I certainly do favor transparency. 416 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 2: I feel like I've enough science fiction and horror and 417 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 2: read enough science fiction and horror though that I can 418 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 2: think of numerous scenarios in which I would be like, Okay, 419 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 2: cover up, great idea, let's do that. That truth is 420 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 2: too horrible, Like yeah, I'm not even gonna spitball any 421 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 2: any of the ideas here, but you know, you can 422 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 2: just think of various scenarios in which like, oh, oh, 423 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 2: it's much worse than we thought. The public is just 424 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:24,959 Speaker 2: better off not knowing this. 425 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean, I wonder if there's like kind 426 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 3: of snow crash type scenario where knowledge of the aliens 427 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 3: entails like the activation of a virus in our brains 428 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 3: that would just cause all of our heads to melt 429 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 3: or something. 430 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just you know, some Lovecraftian revelation about the 431 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 2: nature of the outer cosmos, and it's just too much 432 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 2: to bear, or it's just like you know, it's instant 433 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 2: event horizon territory to really know what's up, I don't know. 434 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 2: I can think of scenarios. I can dream up scenarios 435 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 2: of varying degrees of ridiculousness that that make a cover 436 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 2: up sound like a good idea. 437 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 3: Well, event horizon scenarios aside, we will need eyes to 438 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 3: see where we're going, and so I do think transparency 439 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 3: is by and large good, so we can agree on that. 440 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 3: If there actually is evidence, I do want it revealed. 441 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 2: Yes, I will agree transparency is good, but I have 442 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 2: various anxiety written caveats to them. 443 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 3: Regarding your other point about this kind of legislation having 444 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 3: secondary effects about other types of quote intelligence like AI, 445 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 3: I mean, in one sense, I think, well, that's interesting, 446 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 3: and I appreciate those thoughts. Though I would also think, like, 447 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 3: if we're going to have a legislation like that, I 448 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 3: would prefer it to be like really targeted at that, 449 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 3: so that like there's no ambiguity in how the law 450 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 3: should be interpreted, Like you know, we should have very clear, 451 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 3: well thought out targeted regulations of the development of AI, 452 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 3: not trying to like use a law of meant for 453 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 3: something else to kind of like wiggle over into that 454 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 3: space too. Be my men. 455 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I see what you mean, Like we need 456 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 2: to have clear laws to deal with AI, and you 457 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 2: should have to have it all hinge on a broad 458 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 2: interpretation of a UFO Act. 459 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 3: But finally to come back to your original point and 460 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 3: again on the agreement. If the truth is out there, 461 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 3: I want it revealed. Yeah, bring it on. 462 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 2: All right. At this point, I think we have time 463 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 2: for just one listener mail from the Weird House Cinema category, 464 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 2: so I'm just gonna read it. I'm gonna read a 465 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 2: quick one here. This one comes to us from Adrian. 466 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 2: Adrian writes, Hey, guys, love the show. Just listen to 467 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 2: your episode on the Chronicles of Riddick. I love the 468 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 2: Riddick universe. I just wanted to ask how you mentioned 469 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 2: the actor column Fior and some of his movies, but 470 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 2: you didn't mention how he had a prominent role in 471 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 2: the movie Titus, which you mentioned in a Weird House 472 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 2: Cinema a couple of weeks ago. Sorry, I forget which episode. 473 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 2: After you brought up Titus, I found it on an 474 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 2: eBay and acquired it watched it three days ago. That 475 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 2: would be a great movie to feature on Weird House. 476 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 3: I haven't seen Titus in many years, but I remember 477 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 3: loving it. That's the one directed by Julie Taymoor that 478 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 3: has Anthony Hopkins as as the title character as Titus. 479 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 3: But that's also got a great cast all around. It's 480 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 3: got Jessica Lang, It's got Alan Cumming as the villain 481 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 3: as Emperor Saturnine. Uh yeah, it's it's a good one though. 482 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 3: It's it is uh, you know, weirdly. It's a weird 483 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 3: thing to caution about a Shakespeare play, but it is 484 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 3: incredibly violent. 485 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, it's also interesting kind of a historical note. 486 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 2: The one of the co executive producers on it was 487 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 2: Steve Bannon. 488 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 3: What Yeah, Okay, that's odd. 489 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 2: But still yes, a very beautifully weirdly rendered film. I 490 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 2: hadn't been thinking about Titus specifically, but I have now 491 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 2: and again thought we should do a weird adaptation of 492 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 2: Shakespeare at some point or another. There are so many, 493 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 2: there's so many good ones, you know, there's so many 494 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 2: weird takes on Shakespeare. Some I like, some I don't like. 495 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 2: But there's always something worth talking about. 496 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 3: There I would be very into that. 497 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 2: So, Hey, shakespeare fans, let us know what your favorite 498 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 2: weird adaptations of Shakespeare are and we'll throw them in 499 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 2: the hat for consideration. 500 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 3: That's a great idea. I do like Shakespeare that has 501 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 3: kind of cheeky anachronisms in it, though from what I recall, 502 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 3: the anachronisms in Taymor's Titus are mainly in the framing narrative, 503 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 3: Like at the beginning, it's showing like a young child 504 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 3: sort of like playing with toy soldiers and stuff, and 505 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 3: this represents the battle that sets up the plot in 506 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 3: which you know, at the beginning of the story, Titus 507 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 3: is coming home victorious from a military campaign with prisoner 508 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 3: of war, including the Tamara, the queen of the Goths, 509 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 3: I think, and that's that's Jessica Lang's character. But after that, 510 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 3: while it is a very great looking and visually striking 511 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 3: kind of at least like textually weird movie, it is 512 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 3: mostly I think, set within an ancient Roman millieu. It 513 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 3: doesn't have weird technology running all around. There is another 514 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 3: Shakespeare adaptation that I do remember being anachronistic in a 515 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 3: way that I liked, which is the Oh, what's it 516 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 3: the Ian McKellen version of Richard the Third, where oh yes, 517 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 3: he plays Richard the Third and it's got Jim Broadbent 518 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 3: is Buckingham. 519 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 2: That's a really good one. Yeah. I was fond of 520 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 2: that one back in the day. 521 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 3: But it's set in like a World War One kind 522 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 3: of context. 523 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that was great. There are various adaptations of 524 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 2: Macbeth that I love. I mean, I love the old 525 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 2: seventy one Macbeth. I of course love a Curra Crissaw 526 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 2: was Thrown of Blood and even though the more recent one, 527 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 2: Joe Cohen's twenty twenty one adaptation, The Tragedy of McBath 528 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 2: is wonderful and has some tremendously weird choices in it. 529 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 3: I haven't seen that yet, I should have. I love 530 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 3: Francis McDorman, so yeah. 531 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, she's great in it. Everybody's great. Wonderful cast, wonderful, 532 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 2: weird cast that one, because you also have you have 533 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 2: some expected names popping up, but then you also have 534 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 2: like Brian Thompson showing up as one of the murderers, 535 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 2: who many of you would remember from He's been in 536 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 2: a lot of b movies. He played Shao Khan in 537 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 2: one of the live action Mortal Kombat films, a big 538 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 2: muscle guy. He's not the kind of fella earlier on 539 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 2: in his career that you would have thought, Oh, this 540 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 2: guy's doing Shakespeare at some point. But he's a small role, 541 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 2: but he's great in it. 542 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 3: You weak, pathetic fools. Your souls are mine, I don't 543 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 3: think so. 544 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. He was also one of the punks in The Terminator. 545 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 3: Okay, I gotta see that now. 546 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 2: All right, Well, we're gonna go and close up the 547 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 2: mail bag now, but yeah, right in, we'd love to 548 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 2: hear from him if you have thought. It's on past, 549 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 2: current and future episodes Stuff to Blow your Mind, Weird House, Cinema, Artifact, 550 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 2: Monster Fact, other episodes, a listener mail. It's all fair game. Yeah, 551 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 2: right in, we'd love to hear from you. Next listener 552 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 2: mail will occur on the next Monday in the cycle. 553 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 3: Huge thanks to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. 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