WEBVTT - Elon Musk's Stake in Twitter and Okta's Breach 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.720 From the heart of where innovation, money and power collid 0:00:07.480 --> 0:00:12.000 in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:28.120 Emily Jay. I'm Emily Chinese, San Francisco, and this is 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:31.120 Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour. Elon Musk 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:34.440 is now the biggest shareholder in Twitter. Why does he 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.120 want it and what change will he push for? Or 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:40.360 now that shares have shot up on news of his 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:44.320 stake alone, could he just sell? We have discovered from 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:48.200 all angles Claus. We will hear directly from Octa CEO 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:51.080 Todd McKinnon in his first interview since that massive third 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:55.120 party breach by the hacker group lacks lapses was disclosed. 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.120 What really happened and how are they addressing customer concerns. 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:01.240 We will have all the details in an exclusive interview. 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:06.520 And coming out of crypto's breakout year of one, what 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:10.360 trends should we watch for now that greater adoption is underway, 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:13.639 from inflation to regulation. We'll speak with the top exact 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.480 from the crypto platform, Gemini about their latest global report. 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:19.840 All of that in a moment, But first to the 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:21.960 biggest story of the day, and that is Elon Musk 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:25.200 and Twitter. The Tesla and SpaceX CEO disclosing in a 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:28.200 filing that he now owns a nine point two percent 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:32.759 stake in Twitter, worth somewhere around three point seven billion 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:36.399 dollars now, making him the company's largest shareholder. The big 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.440 question how will he use this new power. Let's bring 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.200 in Bloomberg's at Ludlow and the big question that is 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:44.640 just how active is elon muskt going to be? Now 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:46.880 it's the three point seven billion dollar question, isn't it? 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:49.280 The devil's in the detail because the filing type he use, 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.040 you're only eligible to do so if you have no 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:57.040 intention of changing or trying to control the operations of 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.800 the issuing company. In other words, you're a passive investor 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:02.240 in investor and not an activist investor in any event. 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:05.360 Look at the board gain on Twitter, the best and 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:08.280 performing stock in the SMP five hundred on a day 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.440 where we saw very muted moves across financial markets, various 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.760 asset classes not moving strongly in either direction. But that 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:17.720 gain in Twitter having a real effect on other social 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.639 media stocks really pushing then has that one hundred to 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.640 show some outperformance When it comes to techno, the technology 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:25.840 set of broadly coming me to my boombo terminal, and 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:28.399 let's just put some size and scope on this. This 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.799 is the biggest jump in Twitter stock since November two 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:35.560 thousand thirteen, in other words, the biggest jump Twitter's experienced 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.280 since listing day. And then I know that you were 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:40.880 there right in two thousand thirteen. You witnessed that I 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:43.960 p O the massive surge in Twitter shares, and as 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:46.360 you look at that chart in your screen, we haven't 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:50.079 had many days like that for Twitter since over the 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.160 last decade. This is a stock that was under performing 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.040 year today that it's now in positive territory year to date. 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.960 But you know, things have kind of lost momentum right 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.120 since any thirteen, it has. Indeed, I was on there 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:03.680 on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange when 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.720 Twitter went public. Thank you, Ed. I want to stick 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:08.800 with Twitter now as I had set a social platform 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.600 gaining the most since trading debut. In joining us to 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.320 discuss Katie Stanton, founder and general partner of Moxie Ventures 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.200 and an early Twitter employee, as well as Bloomberg so 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.839 our Fire, who covers the company for us, Sarah, I'll 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:24.280 start with you the big question, why did Ellen buy 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:28.320 this steak? Well, I think that that he has hinted 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.400 a bit at why in the past few days among 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:35.400 his his beefs with Twitters that he thinks that they 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:40.000 aren't doing well on free speech. Well, you know new 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:44.600 celon Twitter does not have a free speech commitment commitment 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:49.520 under the First Amendment. They're just a private company. But um, 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:53.320 I do think that with this influence, with this power, 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:57.040 even if it's a passive steake, he can exert some, 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:01.800 um some behind the scenes influence over Twitter. Um. Now, 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:03.920 we don't know exactly what he's going to do, but 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:09.440 it might have something to do with their constant moderation efforts. Katie, 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:13.360 you worked at Twitter for almost six years until and 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.240 you tweeted today. Maybe pick a nine percent of one 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.600 of the top US greenhouse gas emitters like Chevron or 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:23.000 Xon and accelerate their paths to clean energy. What is 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:27.000 your initial reaction to ellen buying mistake. Yeah, well, I 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.320 think it's a very expensive way to get yourself an 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.840 edit button. Um. I think it's a very interesting move. Um. 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:35.760 Elan is obviously a power user. He knows a product well, 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.680 he knows that Twitter is the place for the world's conversation. 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.960 But for Twitter, I think It's really tricky in two ways. First, 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:45.520 as Sarah mentions, it's it's really difficult. Elon has been 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:49.119 very vocal about making Twitter an unfettered free speech platform, 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:51.159 and this is part of the founding ethos of Twitter, 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.640 but it's not an absolute and it's really hard on 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:57.239 social media and we've seen the consequences of what happens 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.640 when there's no accountability for when disinformation spread. It's so 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:03.760 it's complicated. And second, I think it's tricky because it 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.680 comes it becomes another distraction for the Twitter team. But 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.040 I have full confidence in the Twitter team because they're 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:11.760 used to all kinds of distractions. It's basically what we 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:15.760 would have called them Monday. So on that note, Twitter 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:20.440 shares have languished for years despite all of this activity. 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.280 You know, President Trump on the platform, so many ups 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:25.800 and downs when you look at just what happens on 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:29.080 Twitter on a daily basis, you know, what do you 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:31.400 make of the strategy that the current Twitter chief team 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.880 is taking Without Jack Dorsey, they're under new leadership of 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:39.680 Parague Aggrawall Ned Seagal, the CFO. I'm a big fan. 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:42.559 I think Jack has hired extremely well. I have worked 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:45.400 side by side with Vite the chief legal officer, with 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.760 Kevon big Poor, the chief product officer. They're excellent. They're 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.920 excellent what they do, They're thoughtful, they're ethical. I didn't 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:54.040 work as closely with Parogue, but I know he's very 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.280 well respected by the team. He's well prepared, He's been 0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.880 at Twitter for a long time. He's technical, he has 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.240 at the engineering team. So I'm very bullish and I'm 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:05.920 very confident that the Twitter team will continue to evolve 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:10.360 and protect the platform, Sarah. Elon Musk, the way that 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:14.279 he disclosed this indicates that he's not intending to be 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.599 very active or join the board. I mean, maybe he 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:21.680 just wants an expensive edit button, as Katie is alluding to. 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.200 But how active do we expect him to be? Knowing 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:29.360 that Elon Musk doesn't just sit back and let things happen, well, 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:32.799 and I think the most interesting thing will be any 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:36.240 criticism he makes of Twitter. Now, anything he says on 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.520 Twitter about the company might move the stocks, So we 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:43.480 could be in for a few very volatile months ahead. 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.080 But there's also the question of whether Twitter will feel 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:49.600 that they can moderate Elon Musk. Now if should he 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:53.360 violate the rules, would they take down their biggest shareholder. 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:55.760 That's a question I have. We're so witing to hear 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:58.440 if if the company and Elon Musk have talked at 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:02.239 all about this. I think that that it's worth keeping 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.080 in mind the with Twitter, what Katie just said, this 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.800 is a company that has been through a lot of drama. 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:10.360 The reason that parrogacy eo right now is because Jack 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:15.640 Dorsey was was looking into a succession plan under the 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:19.280 activist activity by Elliott Management just in the last year 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:23.280 or so. And this is a company without a founder, 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:28.120 voting control. So it's unlike Facebook, unlike Google, unlike Amazon, 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:31.000 unlike Snap, this is a company that is very vulnerable 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:36.320 to takeovers, to m and a speculation, and to activist investors, 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:38.960 to all of that. Um So, I think that that 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.560 Elon Musk, whatever whatever he plans to do or even 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:45.200 hints that he might do, we know how much people 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.840 follow what he says on Twitter. Now it could actually 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:52.400 move Twitter stock every time. Katie, what is your take 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.600 on his you know, potential opinion that maybe a new 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:59.040 platform is needed. You know, you're a venture capitalist. Now 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.320 you're placing on you know, what could be or what 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.320 you believe will be the next big thing. Do you 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:08.640 think there's room or opportunity for a new social platform. 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:11.840 I don't really think that the world needs another centralized 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.960 social media platform. Um. I think we have more urgent 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:18.320 needs if it's climate change, if it's health innovations and 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.640 healthcare and economic mobility. But they do think that there's 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:23.600 a lot of room for improvement to make sure that 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:28.000 the platforms that we connect on are healthier, that they're safer, 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.880 and that we're doing a better job of reducing a 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.200 lot of the toxicity and the heat that tends to 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:37.840 spread uncontrolled on a lot of these platforms. Jack Dorsey 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:42.400 and Elon Musk Sarah have had some interaction on Twitter. 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:46.120 When Ellen posted that question about whether the Twitter algorithm 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:49.160 should be open source, Jack responded saying the choice of 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:53.720 which algorithm to use or not should be open to everyone. Um. 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:57.439 And then a few years ago he actually said directly 0:08:57.440 --> 0:08:59.959 that he likes how Elon Muski uses Twitter, that he's 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:03.800 focused on solving existential problems, sharing is thinking openly. I 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:05.720 respect that a lot, all the ups and downs that 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.760 come with it. And yet we haven't heard from Jack 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:12.240 yet today. Sarah, what do you make of that? I mean, 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.680 I think It's it's almost like did Elon go out 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:18.760 of his way to defend his his friend who is 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.400 no longer CEO of Twitter. I mean, it seems like 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:26.720 they have a bit of a friendly relationship, but it's 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:31.280 unclear now what happens. It's also there are a lot 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:36.400 of of um liability issues now. If if there's some 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:40.800 some public discussion about what might happen next, it could move, 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.680 like I said, move the stock change things. And so 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.600 I think everyone's just trying to be very careful about 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:50.280 what they're going to say, if anything, about what happens next. 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.560 And I'm I'm really waiting to hear what what Jack 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:58.000 wants to do. He has talked about decentralization of social media. 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.280 The other day he actually tweeted that he regretted what 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:06.640 he built. He regretted being a part of of contributing 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:12.520 to this very centralized viral media ecosystem. So so I 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:15.520 think that there's some soul searching that Jack Dorsey has 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:19.240 done in in maybe lawn Musk has been a part 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.600 of that, or at least listening as as he tweets 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:23.760 about it. Katie, what do you make of that? I mean, 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.680 what do you think Jack is thinking Now, I have 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:30.760 no idea. Yeah, I have no idea what he's thinking. 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:33.360 I'm a big Jack fan. Um, I'm sure he's very 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:37.440 thoughtful um and thinking through what the future hold and 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:40.880 what this new development may or may not how it 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:43.720 impacts the product and the team. But UM, I have 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.680 no idea what Jack is thinking. Well, we all want 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.840 to know. Uh. Katie Stanton, founder and general partner of 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:53.160 Moxi Ventures and an early Twitter employee, thank you. Along 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:58.240 with Bloomberg's Sarafier. Coming up the Octa third party breach, 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:00.520 we will be joined by Actice, the EO and co 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.760 founder Tod McKinnon in an exclusive interview, his first since 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:07.160 the breach was disclosed. Just what happened and what have 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:24.760 they learned? That is next? This is Bloomberg Octa in 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.520 focus after a security breach at one of its third parties. 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.599 The breach happened in January, but Octa didn't disclose it 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.680 until about two months later, and after the hacker group 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:37.400 LAPS has claimed responsibility for the attack and posted screenshots 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:41.320 of alleged customer accounts on Telegram. Octa and it's CEO 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:45.559 Tom McKinnon say he's since spoken to hundreds of customers 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.199 about what happened, and joins us now here in an 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:50.720 exclusive interview, his first since disclosing the breach. Thank you 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:52.560 so much for joining us and for being here in person. 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.360 Thanks for having so Look. I know you've been investigating 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:57.600 the incident, You've been talking to a lot of customers. 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.640 What can you tell us right now about what exactly 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.120 happened and how much damage was done? So to put 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:05.720 it in context, as you know, ACTA is the trusted 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:10.440 identity provider for over fifteen thousand companies, so big, small governments, 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:14.120 private companies, and so anytime something like this happens, it's 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:17.720 a big deal. And we'll talk about details and what happened, 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.800 but I want to be really clear that we're responsible 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.200 so third parties this and third party that it's our 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:27.000 responsibility to make sure this doesn't happen. And the big 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:29.600 takeaway there are many takeaways from us, but the big 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.720 takeaway is, as we've done before, we're gonna learn from 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.319 our mistakes and we're gonna be transparent about what we're 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.520 doing differently in a concrete way, how we're going to 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.439 prevent this from ever happening again. So, how did it happen. 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:43.200 So what happened was, as you mentioned, there's this third 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.320 party call center and they do inside this call center, 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.440 there's about forty people that are support agents that work 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:52.200 on behalf of Octa to provide low level support to 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:56.720 our customers and correct. Yeah, and the hackers broke into 0:12:56.760 --> 0:13:00.680 this site. So they use some vulnerabilities and actually the 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.880 competitor software to break into the site. And when they 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.480 were in the site, they were able to take screenshots 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.719 of what the support agents were doing on their computers 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:12.439 and that's what they posted on Twitter a couple of 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.800 weeks ago. So how many customers were actually compromised? You said, 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.679 initially as many as three. Yeah, And this is really 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.000 important because through this whole process, we're trying to be 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:25.760 as transparent and as conservative and our impact analysis as possible. 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:27.480 So what we did is we said we looked at 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:30.880 every possible customer that had any kind of support interaction 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:34.000 over the five days in question, and that is the 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:38.280 list of potentially impacted customers. Now, everyone is very concerned 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.280 about this, and as they should be. Oct as critical 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:44.520 infrastructure for fifteen companies, so they everyone assumed the worst 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.920 and we did as well. But the actual technical impact 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:50.280 two companies in terms of what they need to do 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.800 is near zero. Is near zero, but it's it's it's 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.600 incumbent upon us. What do you mean by that technical impact? 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.840 The actually what they need to do as a response 0:13:59.880 --> 0:14:03.120 to this, what disclosures they need to make, so actually 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.520 they need to change. It's actually near zero three hundred 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:09.240 sixty six companies. How many actually were compromised, you know, 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:13.120 yet potentially impacted? Three six? So we're drawing that line 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.360 very conservatively. But because of the nature of how our 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.960 system worked and our product, the Octave security technology worked 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.600 well in this case, and the way our processes really 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.560 limit what a support agent can actually do on these systems, 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.520 the impact is near zero. So how many of those 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:31.920 three D sixty six customers do you believe we're impacted? 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.960 It's it's not exactly clear because the hacker was essentially 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.440 looking over the support agent shoulders and looking at what 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:41.600 was happening. So what we've done is we want to 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:44.160 work with our customers to have a detailed analysis of 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:46.880 what actually happened. So we've shared with all of these 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:50.600 three D sixty six companies detailed click by click support 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.560 logs so we can work in conjunction with them to 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:57.680 truly verify that the impact was zero. This investigation is 0:14:57.720 --> 0:14:59.640 open and it won't be closed until we get every 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.680 customer or to agree with our assessment. You faced a 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.200 barrage of criticism, including from your own customers, about the 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.320 timeline with with this was disclosed. Why did you wait 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:11.640 almost two months to share this with the public, and 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:15.880 only after screenshots were shared by presumably last Yeah, I've 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:17.920 talked to hundreds of customers and this comes up over 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:21.200 and over and it's unacceptable and we're accountable for it. 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:24.400 The facts that when I tell people the facts, they 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:26.800 started to get a better understanding the facts. While we 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:30.320 knew something happened in this time period in January, what 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:34.560 we actually knew was that an account takeover attempt actually 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.280 failed and we detected it and there was no It 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:40.480 wasn't clear the impact. We didn't know the extent of 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:45.040 the forensics report. It certainly didn't contain screenshots. So, for 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:47.600 all intents and purposes, the first time we knew about this, 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:49.960 the severity of it, and the and what the hackers 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:54.000 actually got was on March when they publicly the information. Now, 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:58.840 your initial statement also stated that OCTA itself was not breached, 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:00.640 and this was in the middle of a lot of 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.400 conflicting and confusing information, not just for your customers, but 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:07.080 for the cyber community, for journalists like myself. How do 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.440 you regain the trust of the enterprise community after this? 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.560 And for customers prospective customers, we're saying why should we 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.040 use OPTA? Well, I think it's very important. We are 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.760 we are a trusted brand, and that trust has been damaged, 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.480 and we do take accountability for all the mistakes we've made, 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:23.400 and we have made mistakes, and one of them, as 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:25.880 you mentioned, is the communication was not as clear as 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:29.120 it should have been. So we're trying to communicate more openly, 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:33.200 more transparently, more consistently, and more more and ultimately more clearly. 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.920 And I think when customers and conversations like this understand 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:40.320 the facts, how they unfolded and what we knew when, 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:43.000 and more importantly, as we share how we're going to 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.120 do better in the future to make sure this doesn't 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.760 happen again, To make sure customer support environments aren't put 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:52.080 in an insecure place, to make sure that the communication 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.480 is more timely, to make sure that the communication is 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:56.960 clear and there's no question about what was breached and 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.800 wasn't breached. That's what we're committed doing better next next time. 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.800 What's your sense of how the business will be impacted 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.880 by this? Have you lost customers as a result of this? Well, 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.120 it's it's very early, so our focus has been on 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:11.600 talking to customers and talking to prospects. And when I 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:13.800 have those conversations and people on the management team have 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:16.239 those conversations, what's very clear is a lot of these 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.359 same same questions come up, which is why I'm so 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.919 grateful for you allow me to talk about this today. 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:23.440 But when we address these concerns and we talked most 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:27.320 importantly about how mistakes were made, we're taking responsibility and 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.040 how we have concrete plans to to remediate this and 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:32.080 make sure it doesn't happen again. They're in a much 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:34.320 better place at the end of the conversation than when 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.879 they started the conversation. Now, Bloomberg has reported that the 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.840 alleged mastermind of this group is a sixteen year old 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.480 who lives with his mom in England. What do you 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:46.399 make of the fact that a teenager may have pulled 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:50.480 this off. It's it's interesting, but ultimately, Emily it doesn't matter, 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.800 because we have to protect customers against everyone, teenagers and 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:58.679 adults and nation states and people that have various different motives, 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:01.480 and it's incumbent upon us to make sure this never 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.560 happens again. And that's including learning from all the mistakes 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:08.120 made and more importantly, collaborating with the broader cyber community 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.040 to share open and transparent information about what happens. One 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.479 of the biggest weaknesses in cyber response is people are 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:17.280 afraid to share what happened. If you look time after 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:20.760 time again, even this subcontractor to Octa, they were hesitant 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:24.240 to share what they knew. Why because they're afraid of litigation, 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.400 they're afraid of being suited, and they're afraid of reputational damage. 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.159 If you look this, this hinders our response as a 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.560 community over and over again, and we have to get 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:33.920 better at that, and we're trying to lead the way. 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.440 We're trying to be a leader, be open and transparent. 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.000 And if you look back at the facts we've disclosed, 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:42.000 they're they're all consistent. We haven't had to change anything, 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:44.159 and so we're proud of this front footedness and this 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:47.120 transparency despite the mistakes we've made. Are you worried about 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:50.800 or are you facing any or bracing for potential regulatory 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:52.719 scrutiny as a result of what happened, or be the 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:55.680 timeline with which you disclosed it. Well, I'm very confident 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:58.320 with the facts and how we've behaved in light of 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.400 those facts. But I think your question is should there 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:03.840 be more regulation to to somehow try to get this 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:07.000 log jam broken of people disclosing things. So, I know 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.119 the SEC is working on things, the federal government is 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:11.240 working on things, and we would welcome that because we 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:13.520 think the best thing to happen is to be there 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:16.800 more openness and more transparency in these kind of matters. 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.480 Have you been talking to law enforcement about the incident itself? 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:22.840 Authorities in the UK? This is so, this is an 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:25.280 ongoing investigation and we have been working with law enforcement, 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:27.440 and I think they're doing a good job in this case. 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:30.920 So what will you be doing differently going forward? Well, 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:33.560 like I said, there's many learnings, and we're committed to 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:37.000 not only taking those learnings, doing a deep analysis, and 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.680 proactively putting things in place to make sure that these 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.280 problems never happen again. We're going to publish this report 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.240 to our customers and they can collaborate and and have 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:48.560 input into this retrospective. So the first thing is just 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:52.040 to make sure that no customer support information is ever 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.600 placed in an insecure environment. Now, ironically, here the problem 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:58.359 with this site is while they used Octa to log 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:01.600 into these support systems, didn't use Octa to protect their 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:03.960 own front door as a company. And it was a 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.639 competitor product, and the competitor product was at fault for this, 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:10.280 for this breach. And we're going to make sure that 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:13.720 these companies that are third parties to us use Octa 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:17.159 among many other things, to ensure that their technical controls 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:19.280 are up to the snuff that we would we should require. 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:20.880 So this is side tell do you no longer work 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:22.960 with sidetel? We no longer work and what's the product 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:27.840 that they were using? That's them. Look, the Biden administration 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:29.600 has warned of a heighten threat of cyber attacks in 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:31.600 the midst of what's going on between Russia and Ukraine. 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.400 It's my understanding this didn't have anything to do with that, 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.800 not our understanding it or not yet. But how would 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:41.080 you describe the environment in cyberspace right now? Is their chaos? 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:44.040 It is there a greater risk of any kind of 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:48.880 cyber attack happening given the activity a couple of couple 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.760 of things. First of all, all of our information shows 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.160 that this was not or indicates that this was not related. 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:57.760 But like I said, we're very diligent and we're checking 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:01.399 every possible scenario, and we're is focused on protecting all 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:04.040 of these kind of kinds of things, remember happening. But 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.080 everyone knows that the power of technology is so great 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:10.720 and with that power comes risk, So everyone has a 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:13.399 general heightened awareness and a heightened investment to stop these 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:16.280 kinds of things from happening. In addition to that, this 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:20.520 what's happening geopolitically has everyone on edge, which explains partially 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:23.280 why people were so concerned and there's so much stress 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:26.080 and strife. What ultimately has turned out to be something 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:30.080 that's very very minor technical technical impact. Optics CEO and 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.200 co founder Tomikin, thanks for joining us, Thanks for explaining 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.560 what happened. We appreciate it. Thank you all Right. Coming up, 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:39.800 Apple employees are pushing back on returning to the office 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.520 after two years at home. More on what some are 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:47.200 calling the iPhone makers inflexible work policies. Next, this is 0:21:47.240 --> 0:22:04.960