1 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power collid 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: Emily Jay. I'm Emily Chinese, San Francisco, and this is 4 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour. Elon Musk 5 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: is now the biggest shareholder in Twitter. Why does he 6 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: want it and what change will he push for? Or 7 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: now that shares have shot up on news of his 8 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: stake alone, could he just sell? We have discovered from 9 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: all angles Claus. We will hear directly from Octa CEO 10 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: Todd McKinnon in his first interview since that massive third 11 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: party breach by the hacker group lacks lapses was disclosed. 12 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: What really happened and how are they addressing customer concerns. 13 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: We will have all the details in an exclusive interview. 14 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: And coming out of crypto's breakout year of one, what 15 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: trends should we watch for now that greater adoption is underway, 16 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,639 Speaker 1: from inflation to regulation. We'll speak with the top exact 17 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: from the crypto platform, Gemini about their latest global report. 18 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: All of that in a moment, But first to the 19 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 1: biggest story of the day, and that is Elon Musk 20 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: and Twitter. The Tesla and SpaceX CEO disclosing in a 21 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: filing that he now owns a nine point two percent 22 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 1: stake in Twitter, worth somewhere around three point seven billion 23 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: dollars now, making him the company's largest shareholder. The big 24 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: question how will he use this new power. Let's bring 25 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: in Bloomberg's at Ludlow and the big question that is 26 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: just how active is elon muskt going to be? Now 27 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: it's the three point seven billion dollar question, isn't it? 28 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: The devil's in the detail because the filing type he use, 29 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: you're only eligible to do so if you have no 30 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: intention of changing or trying to control the operations of 31 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: the issuing company. In other words, you're a passive investor 32 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: in investor and not an activist investor in any event. 33 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: Look at the board gain on Twitter, the best and 34 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: performing stock in the SMP five hundred on a day 35 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: where we saw very muted moves across financial markets, various 36 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: asset classes not moving strongly in either direction. But that 37 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: gain in Twitter having a real effect on other social 38 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: media stocks really pushing then has that one hundred to 39 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: show some outperformance When it comes to techno, the technology 40 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: set of broadly coming me to my boombo terminal, and 41 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,399 Speaker 1: let's just put some size and scope on this. This 42 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 1: is the biggest jump in Twitter stock since November two 43 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: thousand thirteen, in other words, the biggest jump Twitter's experienced 44 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: since listing day. And then I know that you were 45 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: there right in two thousand thirteen. You witnessed that I 46 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: p O the massive surge in Twitter shares, and as 47 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: you look at that chart in your screen, we haven't 48 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 1: had many days like that for Twitter since over the 49 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: last decade. This is a stock that was under performing 50 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: year today that it's now in positive territory year to date. 51 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: But you know, things have kind of lost momentum right 52 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: since any thirteen, it has. Indeed, I was on there 53 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange when 54 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: Twitter went public. Thank you, Ed. I want to stick 55 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: with Twitter now as I had set a social platform 56 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: gaining the most since trading debut. In joining us to 57 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: discuss Katie Stanton, founder and general partner of Moxie Ventures 58 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: and an early Twitter employee, as well as Bloomberg so 59 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,839 Speaker 1: our Fire, who covers the company for us, Sarah, I'll 60 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: start with you the big question, why did Ellen buy 61 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: this steak? Well, I think that that he has hinted 62 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: a bit at why in the past few days among 63 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: his his beefs with Twitters that he thinks that they 64 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: aren't doing well on free speech. Well, you know new 65 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: celon Twitter does not have a free speech commitment commitment 66 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: under the First Amendment. They're just a private company. But um, 67 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: I do think that with this influence, with this power, 68 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: even if it's a passive steake, he can exert some, 69 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: um some behind the scenes influence over Twitter. Um. Now, 70 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: we don't know exactly what he's going to do, but 71 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: it might have something to do with their constant moderation efforts. Katie, 72 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: you worked at Twitter for almost six years until and 73 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: you tweeted today. Maybe pick a nine percent of one 74 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: of the top US greenhouse gas emitters like Chevron or 75 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: Xon and accelerate their paths to clean energy. What is 76 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: your initial reaction to ellen buying mistake. Yeah, well, I 77 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: think it's a very expensive way to get yourself an 78 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: edit button. Um. I think it's a very interesting move. Um. 79 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: Elan is obviously a power user. He knows a product well, 80 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: he knows that Twitter is the place for the world's conversation. 81 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: But for Twitter, I think It's really tricky in two ways. First, 82 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: as Sarah mentions, it's it's really difficult. Elon has been 83 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,119 Speaker 1: very vocal about making Twitter an unfettered free speech platform, 84 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: and this is part of the founding ethos of Twitter, 85 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: but it's not an absolute and it's really hard on 86 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,239 Speaker 1: social media and we've seen the consequences of what happens 87 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: when there's no accountability for when disinformation spread. It's so 88 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: it's complicated. And second, I think it's tricky because it 89 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: comes it becomes another distraction for the Twitter team. But 90 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: I have full confidence in the Twitter team because they're 91 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: used to all kinds of distractions. It's basically what we 92 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: would have called them Monday. So on that note, Twitter 93 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: shares have languished for years despite all of this activity. 94 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: You know, President Trump on the platform, so many ups 95 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: and downs when you look at just what happens on 96 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: Twitter on a daily basis, you know, what do you 97 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: make of the strategy that the current Twitter chief team 98 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: is taking Without Jack Dorsey, they're under new leadership of 99 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: Parague Aggrawall Ned Seagal, the CFO. I'm a big fan. 100 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,559 Speaker 1: I think Jack has hired extremely well. I have worked 101 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: side by side with Vite the chief legal officer, with 102 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: Kevon big Poor, the chief product officer. They're excellent. They're 103 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: excellent what they do, They're thoughtful, they're ethical. I didn't 104 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: work as closely with Parogue, but I know he's very 105 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: well respected by the team. He's well prepared, He's been 106 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: at Twitter for a long time. He's technical, he has 107 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: at the engineering team. So I'm very bullish and I'm 108 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: very confident that the Twitter team will continue to evolve 109 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: and protect the platform, Sarah. Elon Musk, the way that 110 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: he disclosed this indicates that he's not intending to be 111 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: very active or join the board. I mean, maybe he 112 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: just wants an expensive edit button, as Katie is alluding to. 113 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: But how active do we expect him to be? Knowing 114 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: that Elon Musk doesn't just sit back and let things happen, well, 115 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,799 Speaker 1: and I think the most interesting thing will be any 116 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: criticism he makes of Twitter. Now, anything he says on 117 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: Twitter about the company might move the stocks, So we 118 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: could be in for a few very volatile months ahead. 119 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: But there's also the question of whether Twitter will feel 120 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 1: that they can moderate Elon Musk. Now if should he 121 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: violate the rules, would they take down their biggest shareholder. 122 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: That's a question I have. We're so witing to hear 123 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: if if the company and Elon Musk have talked at 124 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,239 Speaker 1: all about this. I think that that it's worth keeping 125 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: in mind the with Twitter, what Katie just said, this 126 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: is a company that has been through a lot of drama. 127 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: The reason that parrogacy eo right now is because Jack 128 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: Dorsey was was looking into a succession plan under the 129 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: activist activity by Elliott Management just in the last year 130 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: or so. And this is a company without a founder, 131 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: voting control. So it's unlike Facebook, unlike Google, unlike Amazon, 132 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: unlike Snap, this is a company that is very vulnerable 133 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: to takeovers, to m and a speculation, and to activist investors, 134 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: to all of that. Um So, I think that that 135 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: Elon Musk, whatever whatever he plans to do or even 136 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: hints that he might do, we know how much people 137 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: follow what he says on Twitter. Now it could actually 138 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: move Twitter stock every time. Katie, what is your take 139 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: on his you know, potential opinion that maybe a new 140 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: platform is needed. You know, you're a venture capitalist. Now 141 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: you're placing on you know, what could be or what 142 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: you believe will be the next big thing. Do you 143 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: think there's room or opportunity for a new social platform. 144 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: I don't really think that the world needs another centralized 145 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: social media platform. Um. I think we have more urgent 146 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: needs if it's climate change, if it's health innovations and 147 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: healthcare and economic mobility. But they do think that there's 148 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: a lot of room for improvement to make sure that 149 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: the platforms that we connect on are healthier, that they're safer, 150 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: and that we're doing a better job of reducing a 151 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: lot of the toxicity and the heat that tends to 152 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: spread uncontrolled on a lot of these platforms. Jack Dorsey 153 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: and Elon Musk Sarah have had some interaction on Twitter. 154 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: When Ellen posted that question about whether the Twitter algorithm 155 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: should be open source, Jack responded saying the choice of 156 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: which algorithm to use or not should be open to everyone. Um. 157 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 1: And then a few years ago he actually said directly 158 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: that he likes how Elon Muski uses Twitter, that he's 159 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: focused on solving existential problems, sharing is thinking openly. I 160 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: respect that a lot, all the ups and downs that 161 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: come with it. And yet we haven't heard from Jack 162 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: yet today. Sarah, what do you make of that? I mean, 163 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: I think It's it's almost like did Elon go out 164 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: of his way to defend his his friend who is 165 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: no longer CEO of Twitter. I mean, it seems like 166 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: they have a bit of a friendly relationship, but it's 167 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: unclear now what happens. It's also there are a lot 168 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: of of um liability issues now. If if there's some 169 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: some public discussion about what might happen next, it could move, 170 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: like I said, move the stock change things. And so 171 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: I think everyone's just trying to be very careful about 172 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: what they're going to say, if anything, about what happens next. 173 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: And I'm I'm really waiting to hear what what Jack 174 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: wants to do. He has talked about decentralization of social media. 175 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: The other day he actually tweeted that he regretted what 176 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: he built. He regretted being a part of of contributing 177 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: to this very centralized viral media ecosystem. So so I 178 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: think that there's some soul searching that Jack Dorsey has 179 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: done in in maybe lawn Musk has been a part 180 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: of that, or at least listening as as he tweets 181 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: about it. Katie, what do you make of that? I mean, 182 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: what do you think Jack is thinking Now, I have 183 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: no idea. Yeah, I have no idea what he's thinking. 184 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: I'm a big Jack fan. Um, I'm sure he's very 185 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: thoughtful um and thinking through what the future hold and 186 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: what this new development may or may not how it 187 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: impacts the product and the team. But UM, I have 188 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 1: no idea what Jack is thinking. Well, we all want 189 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: to know. Uh. Katie Stanton, founder and general partner of 190 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: Moxi Ventures and an early Twitter employee, thank you. Along 191 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: with Bloomberg's Sarafier. Coming up the Octa third party breach, 192 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: we will be joined by Actice, the EO and co 193 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: founder Tod McKinnon in an exclusive interview, his first since 194 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: the breach was disclosed. Just what happened and what have 195 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: they learned? That is next? This is Bloomberg Octa in 196 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: focus after a security breach at one of its third parties. 197 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,599 Speaker 1: The breach happened in January, but Octa didn't disclose it 198 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: until about two months later, and after the hacker group 199 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: LAPS has claimed responsibility for the attack and posted screenshots 200 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: of alleged customer accounts on Telegram. Octa and it's CEO 201 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: Tom McKinnon say he's since spoken to hundreds of customers 202 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 1: about what happened, and joins us now here in an 203 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: exclusive interview, his first since disclosing the breach. Thank you 204 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: so much for joining us and for being here in person. 205 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: Thanks for having so Look. I know you've been investigating 206 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: the incident, You've been talking to a lot of customers. 207 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: What can you tell us right now about what exactly 208 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: happened and how much damage was done? So to put 209 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: it in context, as you know, ACTA is the trusted 210 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: identity provider for over fifteen thousand companies, so big, small governments, 211 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: private companies, and so anytime something like this happens, it's 212 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: a big deal. And we'll talk about details and what happened, 213 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: but I want to be really clear that we're responsible 214 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: so third parties this and third party that it's our 215 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: responsibility to make sure this doesn't happen. And the big 216 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: takeaway there are many takeaways from us, but the big 217 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: takeaway is, as we've done before, we're gonna learn from 218 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: our mistakes and we're gonna be transparent about what we're 219 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: doing differently in a concrete way, how we're going to 220 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 1: prevent this from ever happening again. So, how did it happen. 221 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: So what happened was, as you mentioned, there's this third 222 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: party call center and they do inside this call center, 223 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: there's about forty people that are support agents that work 224 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: on behalf of Octa to provide low level support to 225 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: our customers and correct. Yeah, and the hackers broke into 226 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: this site. So they use some vulnerabilities and actually the 227 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: competitor software to break into the site. And when they 228 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: were in the site, they were able to take screenshots 229 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,719 Speaker 1: of what the support agents were doing on their computers 230 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 1: and that's what they posted on Twitter a couple of 231 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: weeks ago. So how many customers were actually compromised? You said, 232 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: initially as many as three. Yeah, And this is really 233 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: important because through this whole process, we're trying to be 234 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: as transparent and as conservative and our impact analysis as possible. 235 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: So what we did is we said we looked at 236 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: every possible customer that had any kind of support interaction 237 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: over the five days in question, and that is the 238 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: list of potentially impacted customers. Now, everyone is very concerned 239 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: about this, and as they should be. Oct as critical 240 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: infrastructure for fifteen companies, so they everyone assumed the worst 241 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: and we did as well. But the actual technical impact 242 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: two companies in terms of what they need to do 243 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: is near zero. Is near zero, but it's it's it's 244 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: incumbent upon us. What do you mean by that technical impact? 245 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: The actually what they need to do as a response 246 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: to this, what disclosures they need to make, so actually 247 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: they need to change. It's actually near zero three hundred 248 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: sixty six companies. How many actually were compromised, you know, 249 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: yet potentially impacted? Three six? So we're drawing that line 250 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: very conservatively. But because of the nature of how our 251 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: system worked and our product, the Octave security technology worked 252 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: well in this case, and the way our processes really 253 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: limit what a support agent can actually do on these systems, 254 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: the impact is near zero. So how many of those 255 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: three D sixty six customers do you believe we're impacted? 256 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: It's it's not exactly clear because the hacker was essentially 257 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: looking over the support agent shoulders and looking at what 258 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: was happening. So what we've done is we want to 259 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: work with our customers to have a detailed analysis of 260 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: what actually happened. So we've shared with all of these 261 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: three D sixty six companies detailed click by click support 262 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: logs so we can work in conjunction with them to 263 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: truly verify that the impact was zero. This investigation is 264 00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: open and it won't be closed until we get every 265 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: customer or to agree with our assessment. You faced a 266 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: barrage of criticism, including from your own customers, about the 267 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: timeline with with this was disclosed. Why did you wait 268 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: almost two months to share this with the public, and 269 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: only after screenshots were shared by presumably last Yeah, I've 270 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: talked to hundreds of customers and this comes up over 271 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: and over and it's unacceptable and we're accountable for it. 272 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: The facts that when I tell people the facts, they 273 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: started to get a better understanding the facts. While we 274 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: knew something happened in this time period in January, what 275 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: we actually knew was that an account takeover attempt actually 276 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: failed and we detected it and there was no It 277 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: wasn't clear the impact. We didn't know the extent of 278 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: the forensics report. It certainly didn't contain screenshots. So, for 279 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: all intents and purposes, the first time we knew about this, 280 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: the severity of it, and the and what the hackers 281 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: actually got was on March when they publicly the information. Now, 282 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: your initial statement also stated that OCTA itself was not breached, 283 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: and this was in the middle of a lot of 284 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: conflicting and confusing information, not just for your customers, but 285 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: for the cyber community, for journalists like myself. How do 286 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: you regain the trust of the enterprise community after this? 287 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: And for customers prospective customers, we're saying why should we 288 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: use OPTA? Well, I think it's very important. We are 289 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: we are a trusted brand, and that trust has been damaged, 290 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: and we do take accountability for all the mistakes we've made, 291 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: and we have made mistakes, and one of them, as 292 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: you mentioned, is the communication was not as clear as 293 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: it should have been. So we're trying to communicate more openly, 294 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: more transparently, more consistently, and more more and ultimately more clearly. 295 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: And I think when customers and conversations like this understand 296 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: the facts, how they unfolded and what we knew when, 297 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: and more importantly, as we share how we're going to 298 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: do better in the future to make sure this doesn't 299 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: happen again, To make sure customer support environments aren't put 300 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: in an insecure place, to make sure that the communication 301 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: is more timely, to make sure that the communication is 302 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: clear and there's no question about what was breached and 303 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: wasn't breached. That's what we're committed doing better next next time. 304 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: What's your sense of how the business will be impacted 305 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: by this? Have you lost customers as a result of this? Well, 306 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 1: it's it's very early, so our focus has been on 307 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: talking to customers and talking to prospects. And when I 308 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: have those conversations and people on the management team have 309 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,239 Speaker 1: those conversations, what's very clear is a lot of these 310 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: same same questions come up, which is why I'm so 311 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 1: grateful for you allow me to talk about this today. 312 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: But when we address these concerns and we talked most 313 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: importantly about how mistakes were made, we're taking responsibility and 314 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: how we have concrete plans to to remediate this and 315 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: make sure it doesn't happen again. They're in a much 316 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: better place at the end of the conversation than when 317 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: they started the conversation. Now, Bloomberg has reported that the 318 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: alleged mastermind of this group is a sixteen year old 319 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: who lives with his mom in England. What do you 320 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: make of the fact that a teenager may have pulled 321 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: this off. It's it's interesting, but ultimately, Emily it doesn't matter, 322 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: because we have to protect customers against everyone, teenagers and 323 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 1: adults and nation states and people that have various different motives, 324 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: and it's incumbent upon us to make sure this never 325 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: happens again. And that's including learning from all the mistakes 326 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 1: made and more importantly, collaborating with the broader cyber community 327 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: to share open and transparent information about what happens. One 328 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,479 Speaker 1: of the biggest weaknesses in cyber response is people are 329 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: afraid to share what happened. If you look time after 330 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: time again, even this subcontractor to Octa, they were hesitant 331 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: to share what they knew. Why because they're afraid of litigation, 332 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 1: they're afraid of being suited, and they're afraid of reputational damage. 333 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: If you look this, this hinders our response as a 334 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: community over and over again, and we have to get 335 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: better at that, and we're trying to lead the way. 336 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: We're trying to be a leader, be open and transparent. 337 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: And if you look back at the facts we've disclosed, 338 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: they're they're all consistent. We haven't had to change anything, 339 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 1: and so we're proud of this front footedness and this 340 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 1: transparency despite the mistakes we've made. Are you worried about 341 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: or are you facing any or bracing for potential regulatory 342 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:52,719 Speaker 1: scrutiny as a result of what happened, or be the 343 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: timeline with which you disclosed it. Well, I'm very confident 344 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: with the facts and how we've behaved in light of 345 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 1: those facts. But I think your question is should there 346 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: be more regulation to to somehow try to get this 347 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: log jam broken of people disclosing things. So, I know 348 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: the SEC is working on things, the federal government is 349 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: working on things, and we would welcome that because we 350 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: think the best thing to happen is to be there 351 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: more openness and more transparency in these kind of matters. 352 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: Have you been talking to law enforcement about the incident itself? 353 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: Authorities in the UK? This is so, this is an 354 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: ongoing investigation and we have been working with law enforcement, 355 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: and I think they're doing a good job in this case. 356 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: So what will you be doing differently going forward? Well, 357 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: like I said, there's many learnings, and we're committed to 358 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: not only taking those learnings, doing a deep analysis, and 359 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: proactively putting things in place to make sure that these 360 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: problems never happen again. We're going to publish this report 361 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: to our customers and they can collaborate and and have 362 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: input into this retrospective. So the first thing is just 363 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: to make sure that no customer support information is ever 364 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: placed in an insecure environment. Now, ironically, here the problem 365 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: with this site is while they used Octa to log 366 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: into these support systems, didn't use Octa to protect their 367 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: own front door as a company. And it was a 368 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: competitor product, and the competitor product was at fault for this, 369 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: for this breach. And we're going to make sure that 370 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: these companies that are third parties to us use Octa 371 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 1: among many other things, to ensure that their technical controls 372 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: are up to the snuff that we would we should require. 373 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 1: So this is side tell do you no longer work 374 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: with sidetel? We no longer work and what's the product 375 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: that they were using? That's them. Look, the Biden administration 376 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: has warned of a heighten threat of cyber attacks in 377 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: the midst of what's going on between Russia and Ukraine. 378 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: It's my understanding this didn't have anything to do with that, 379 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: not our understanding it or not yet. But how would 380 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: you describe the environment in cyberspace right now? Is their chaos? 381 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: It is there a greater risk of any kind of 382 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 1: cyber attack happening given the activity a couple of couple 383 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: of things. First of all, all of our information shows 384 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: that this was not or indicates that this was not related. 385 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: But like I said, we're very diligent and we're checking 386 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 1: every possible scenario, and we're is focused on protecting all 387 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: of these kind of kinds of things, remember happening. But 388 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: everyone knows that the power of technology is so great 389 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: and with that power comes risk, So everyone has a 390 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 1: general heightened awareness and a heightened investment to stop these 391 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: kinds of things from happening. In addition to that, this 392 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: what's happening geopolitically has everyone on edge, which explains partially 393 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: why people were so concerned and there's so much stress 394 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: and strife. What ultimately has turned out to be something 395 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: that's very very minor technical technical impact. Optics CEO and 396 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: co founder Tomikin, thanks for joining us, Thanks for explaining 397 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: what happened. We appreciate it. Thank you all Right. Coming up, 398 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: Apple employees are pushing back on returning to the office 399 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: after two years at home. More on what some are 400 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: calling the iPhone makers inflexible work policies. Next, this is 401 00:21:47,240 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg a few other stories. We continue to watch. Workers 402 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: at Apple are pushing back on returning to the office 403 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: after two years working from home. The company's relatively inflexible 404 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: remote work policies, some employees say, are inspiring them to 405 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: look elsewhere. Workers are required to be back in the 406 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: office at least once a week by April eleven, twice 407 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: a week by the end of the month, and on Monday's, 408 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: Tuesdays and Thursdays by May. Plus. A Hong Kong based 409 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: digital media and e commerce company back by celebrity investors 410 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 1: listing on NASDAC via s back it is called Height 411 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 1: East investors including Tom Brady and tennis champion Naomi Osaka. 412 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: We'll be back with more of Bloomberg Technology and Elon 413 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: Musk's big steak in Twitter after the break. This is Bloomberg. 414 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Emily changing San Francisco. 415 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: Let's get back to our story of the day. A 416 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: surge in Twitter shares after Elon must disclosed a two 417 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: steak and boost in some of its social media rivals 418 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: as well. Are at Ludlow back with the movers, not 419 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 1: just Twitter. How yeah, it was interesting you did see 420 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: the likes of Meta, the parent company of Facebook, of course, 421 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: snack Google which zones or alphabet the parent company of Google, 422 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: and also YouTube Mate gains kind of caught up in 423 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: this optimism and interest during the market's day Monday in 424 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: social media stocks. But you know that surge in Twitter 425 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,360 Speaker 1: raises the question is this a positive movie on must 426 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: taking a nine point two steak in Twitter? What will 427 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: happen next? Will he affect change? Were a little earlier 428 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: we heard from Kaffee Would, of course, the CEO and 429 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: CEO of arc whose flagship innovation ETF actually shed Twitter 430 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: shares earlier this year. This is what she had to say. 431 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: I will say this could be setting up for another 432 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: leadership change at Twitter. You never know. Then, I'm not 433 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: jumping to this conclusion automatically. I'm saying it's one of 434 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: many possibilities. It'll either be argal changing the policy of 435 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: the company to you know, really open source the the 436 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: censorship or or call people out on censorship, or it 437 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,199 Speaker 1: will be a management change. I don't know what's going 438 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: to happen. So Cathee would say she's not sure what's 439 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: going to happen, but this could be a shot across 440 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: the bow for the Twitter CEO paragag Roy. Of course 441 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: it could be a warning from Elon Musk. What was interesting. 442 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: She also kind of talked a bit about the landscape 443 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: for social media stocks, which of course have not been 444 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: great to see if you come into my bloombow terminal. 445 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: Just a quick point though, that that jump in Twitter 446 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: shares that we saw during Monday session actually took Twitter 447 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: pretty positive, firmly into positive territory where you have the 448 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: likes of Facebook down more than thirty percent year today 449 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: and Snap still down more than ten percent year today. 450 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: So there hasn't been much love for social media stocks. 451 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: Does this put more attention on the space them, well, 452 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,880 Speaker 1: have to see, that's mention. Indeed we will see. Thank 453 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: you well. Friday mark the first time ever that the 454 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: software company Palentteer entered space. During SpaceX's Falcon nine launched 455 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 1: last week, Pvalentteer's Edge AI enabled satellite was deployed, a 456 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: milestone that could significantly speed up the delivery of data 457 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: sent back to Earth. Joining me now, CEO of Palentteer, 458 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: A Sham sank Our Sham, great to have you back 459 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 1: with us. So what exactly is this satellite? Doing right now. Well, 460 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: thank you for having me back, Emily. So you know, 461 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: we are so excited to have our edge AI technology 462 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: in the satellite bus of a satell Logic New SAT satellite. 463 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: And what this allows us to do is quickly moved 464 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: AI models right next to the satellites camera itself. So 465 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: you think about the pictures were taking videos that you 466 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: can get from space. These are massive files and it 467 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: takes so long to bring that data down to Earth 468 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: and it really introduces tremendous latency in terms of how 469 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: long it takes you to leverage insights that happening in 470 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: the real world given that downlink delay. By moving the 471 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: AI inferencing to space, you can do that in seconds 472 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: and you can get the information down to Earth in 473 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: less than a minute. And that is a fundamental game changer. 474 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: So can you serve some examples of what will improve 475 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: because you have this capability when we move so commercial 476 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: space has exploded over the last decade. Now we are 477 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: drowning in collection. But if you think about it from say, 478 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: for example, a military commander's perspective, they're not interested in saying, 479 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: when can I get the next picture over this region, 480 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: perhaps a region in the Ukraine or Russia. You're they 481 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: want to know how many tanks are there, how many 482 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: transport elector erector launchers are there. They have a mission 483 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: questions and how often can I revisit that? I need 484 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: that information every hour And with this capability you can 485 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: now reduce all of the latency that provide real time insights, 486 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: that provide real deterrence as we've seen in the conflict 487 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: in Ukraine, and real insight into what's happening in the 488 00:26:55,200 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: world now. The war on Ukraine has sparked backlash against 489 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: Russia's continued dominance in space, and you've got a lot 490 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: of companies looking for partners as a result. Has Palace 491 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: here seen any new business because of that. We have 492 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 1: really mobilized our entire company against the invasion Ukraine and 493 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: the consequences of that. I think in many ways we 494 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: believe this situation was foreseeable, and you know, at the 495 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: time of our listening, we talked quite publicly about how 496 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: we would not work with the Russian government and actually 497 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: with Russian companies given the overall context there. But now 498 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 1: our software is being used to power refugee operations from Romania, Poland, 499 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: Lithuania across all of Europe. I've talked before about how 500 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 1: supply chain is really a software problem, and our software 501 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: here is helping, just like we do with the World 502 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: Food Program. It's helping match all of the goods that 503 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: are coming in, the beds that are available, everything that's 504 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: coming from the hands of the donors to the hands 505 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: of the refugees and those who need it, and doing 506 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 1: that as efficiently and effectively as possible given the incredible 507 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: scale millions and millions of refugees that need help in 508 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: this moment. Similarly, we are helping commercial companies with their 509 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: supply chains. There are a lot of automotive parts that 510 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: are made in Ukraine. We've helped BMW ensure the continuity 511 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: of their Munich facilities and production plans by being it 512 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: dynamically changing their production plans to respond to the changing 513 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: supply chain shocks that are occurring. And of course, most obviously, 514 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 1: we have been deeply involved in helping with the military response, 515 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,479 Speaker 1: not just in the US but across European nations who 516 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: are on a fundamentally different footing from a defense and 517 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: security posture since the invasion. How are you helping them? 518 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: We're helping them gain insight into what's happening on the ground. 519 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: A lot of that is coming from space, A lot 520 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: of that is coming from reports that are happening through 521 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: different fused information sources. There's a lot that's happening on 522 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: social media right now that kids you fundamental insight and 523 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: and helping drive coordination around the logistics. Uh and a 524 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: lot of that plays into refugee operations. How many folks 525 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: are we expecting? How do we plan for the capacity 526 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: of the folks that we need to to provide housing, 527 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,479 Speaker 1: board betting for there are in enormous number of orphans. 528 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: I'm sad to say that that we're helping provide a 529 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: housing and shelter for essay come across the border. Now. 530 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: You have talked about supply chain trends in the past 531 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: food shortages, and I'm curious, given your unique view and 532 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: all of the data that Palentteer has, you know, how 533 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: is the supply chain crisis at this moment? Is it easy? 534 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: And especially when it comes to food, which in so 535 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: many parts of the world we're short on. Yeah, I 536 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: wish I could say it was easy. I think it's 537 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: actually getting worse right now when I look at what's 538 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: happening with inflation. We had inflationary pressure from COVID, we 539 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: had inflationary pressure from from Ukraine. But now it's it's 540 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: kind of it's you know, we have inflationary pressure as 541 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: it relates to energy, as it relates to food. And 542 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: what we're seeing is that companies that have a granular 543 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: transaction level enterprise profitability data asset are the ones that 544 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: are going to thrive here. They have a better ability 545 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: to do revenue management, They have a better ability to 546 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: find substitutes in their supply chain and be more competitive 547 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: and offer the lowest price that their customers going forward. 548 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: And those that don't are really struggling to understand what 549 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: this means not only for their own profitability, but how 550 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: they should be reacting and pricing the market. So I 551 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: think I think the greater challenges lie ahead of us 552 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: here for the commercial world. What do you think is 553 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: gonna happen with the markets? So, I mean Palenteer shares, 554 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: you know, along with the rest of bid tech, have 555 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: taken a nose dive since the first part of the year. 556 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: Though Palenter actually since the war started actually trending upwards. 557 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: We had a very strong revenue growth with twenty percent 558 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: adjustice free cash flow and this environment, investors were very 559 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,959 Speaker 1: excited to see that combination of strong revenue growth and 560 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: profitability in cash on the cash generation basis. UH the 561 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: U S Commercial business doubled for the second year in 562 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: a row. The Government Business Group sent you over year, 563 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: so I think, you know, we came out of our 564 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: Q two three earnings call really thinking, well, we're so 565 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: excited about the business. It's clear from the feedback that 566 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: investors are mixed. They don't quite see every think we're seeing. 567 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: We went into the to the end of year call, 568 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: the Q four call really breaking a lot of detailed 569 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: co words out, which allowed investors to see what we 570 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: were seeing in the business and why we were so 571 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: excited about the performance of the key growth areas, US commercial, 572 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: government business, and I think the market's reacting to that. 573 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: Shum Sankar, CEO of Palatier. Always good to have you 574 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: on the show, Sean, thank you. Coming up, it was 575 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: crypto's breakout year. We're gonna talk with Gemini CEOO no 576 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: Approlment about their new report on global crypto trends and 577 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: what's to come in This is Brumberg time for our 578 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: Crypto Report. Now with crypto markets looking like they are 579 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: rallying and with Bitcoin not the lead here, so Lana 580 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: and Tera are among the biggest gainers in the crypto 581 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: universe in the last week, a sign of a broadening 582 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: rally in digital tokens, while Bitcoin over the same period 583 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: remains a little changed and still trading within a tight range. 584 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: I want to talk about all this and much more 585 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: with Noah Perlman, chief operating officer of the crypto platform Gemini. Noah, 586 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: great to have you with us. What's your take on 587 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: what's happening in crypto markets at the moment given all 588 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: of the buzz and activity we've seen around crypto specific 589 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: to the war on Ukraine. UM, Emily great to be 590 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: back on the show and thanks so much for having 591 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: me on to discuss Gemini's Global report and all things crypto. UM, 592 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: you're right, there has been so much buzz about crypto 593 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: over the past year, and we were really excited to 594 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: dig into the actual data to uncover trends and adoption, 595 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: barriers to entry and general attitude stards crypto. And our survey, 596 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: which did looked at respondents across twenty countries, we found 597 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: four four key findings. So first increased adoption globally. One 598 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: really was a breakout year. We saw crypto ownership nearly 599 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: double in several key geographies, including the US. That means 600 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: basically about half of the people bought their first crypto 601 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: in UM. Second, and interestingly, we saw that in addition 602 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: to increased ownership, it was a real broadening of the 603 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: base of crypto investors, with more women and more diverse 604 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: investors coming into the space. UM. Third, we saw that 605 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: respondents were really tuned to inflation and the responses demonstrated 606 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: that inflation is a significant driver of demand in the space. UH. 607 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: And finally, finally, consumers worldwide, they continue to seek out 608 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: more education and regulatory clarity concerning digital assets. We're looking 609 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: at India, Hong Kong, Brazil looks like they had some 610 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: big uptick. Where are you seeing the most adoption right now, Well, 611 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: we're seeing the most interest in uh developing countries where 612 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: UH there is historic currency instability UH and so where 613 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: we see that. Our theory is that look where your 614 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: where your currency is stable, UH, crypto maybe a nice 615 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: to have helps diversify your portfolio, But where we see 616 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: currencies that have been devalued against the dollar, we've found 617 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,760 Speaker 1: that people are five times more likely to buy crypto, 618 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 1: and there the theory is that crypto there is not 619 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: a nice to have, but it need to have. Bitcoin 620 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: has been trading between thirty four and forty four THOU 621 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: dollars for most of two fairly narrow arranged. Do you 622 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: think that's going to change? I talked to my traders 623 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: about that. We do think that we're poised for continued 624 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: to continued growth UH and price increase UH this year, 625 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,320 Speaker 1: and a number of things are driving it, certainly UH inflation, 626 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 1: which you know, we've seen that worldwide where there is inflation, 627 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 1: it's a driver of demand. And obviously we've got inflationary 628 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,919 Speaker 1: pressures here in the US UM and also the war 629 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 1: in Ukraine has demonstrated UH some interest in UH ensuring 630 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: that countries are taking a look at their currencies and 631 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: making sure that they aren't as dependent on world events. 632 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 1: And we've seen crypto as a mechanism of easing friction 633 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,359 Speaker 1: for cross border payments UH. And so we'll see if 634 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: that increases UH price movement here. UH. What headwinds are 635 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: you bracing for? Is it regulation? Regulation continues, Regulation and 636 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 1: education continue to be the head winds. So despite the 637 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: fact that we've the crypto markets continue to have m 638 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 1: a tremendous info of investments and we saw look we 639 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: saw more than ten and a half billion in investment 640 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: in the space in the fourth quarter of one alone. 641 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: We still have regulatory uncertainty uh and a lack of clarity. UH. 642 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: And look, this is not just in the US, it's worldwide. 643 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: We have the sense that government's regulators know that they've 644 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,959 Speaker 1: got to do something. Often they don't know what to do, 645 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,800 Speaker 1: so they'll make statements that aren't always helpful to industry. 646 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: You'll see things like a plan for a plan, or 647 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: we're going to study it. And as you know, what 648 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 1: the markets want is certainty, tell us what they are. 649 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: We are more than happy to work with our regulators 650 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: and we do UM and so we can get some 651 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: clarity and can move forward, no problem in CEO of 652 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: GEM and I Noah, good to have you back, exactly 653 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,439 Speaker 1: all right. Coming up more on Elam Musk's big Twitter sake. 654 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: What does he plan to do with it? That is next. 655 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 1: This is bloomerk. Let's get back to the story of 656 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: the shares of Twitter soaring after Elon must announced he's 657 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: taken a nine point two percent steak in the company, 658 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 1: the largest of any investor. Natasha Lamb of Varginia Capital 659 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,840 Speaker 1: joins us now to discuss Natasha as an activist investor yourself, 660 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: what do you make of this? Um? Well, I mean, 661 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: it's it's hard to say. I think that I believe 662 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: that Elon musk critique is that social media companies need 663 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 1: to be better managed. H That's something we've been saying 664 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: for years. They need better governance. But it's so interesting 665 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: because I don't see Elon Musk as you know, a 666 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: golden child of good governance. Um. Even if you just 667 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: look at Tesla, where he inhabited the role of CEO 668 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: and chairman originally, you know that was bad governance on 669 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: O one. Tesla's struggled with allegations of racial discrimination. They 670 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,800 Speaker 1: could certainly look to improve the diversity of their board. UM. 671 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: And in fact, Musk has gotten trouble, gotten in trouble 672 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: on Twitter before with the Securities and Exchange Commission, the 673 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,720 Speaker 1: SEC for saying that funding was secured to take Tesla 674 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: public when it wasn't. Um. Was that free speech or 675 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: was that a regulatory violation? But as part of the 676 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: sec settlement. He actually had to step down his chair 677 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: of Tesla's board. Again, we don't think he should have 678 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,799 Speaker 1: been in both roles anyway. Um. And you know we've 679 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: seen the same with Mark Zuckerberg, who you know, I 680 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:37,840 Speaker 1: guess now another social media mogul struggled to learn that lesson. Um, 681 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,279 Speaker 1: that unchecked power. You know, that unchecked power has been 682 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 1: detrimental to Facebook or Meta. Um. I think that Musk 683 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: has the ego in the capital. And I say this, 684 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: you know, in the best way possible he's got that. 685 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: You go in the capitol to launch a new social 686 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 1: media company to try to reform Twitter. Um, but I 687 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,879 Speaker 1: don't think he has the X or tease uh in 688 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 1: terms of how to actually make that happen. Interesting, Well, 689 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: you brought up the funding secured tweet which sent shares 690 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: of Tesla up. You know, he can tweet about dose 691 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 1: or bitcoin and then sell a bunch of it tomorrow. 692 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 1: He could turn around and just sell this Twitter stake 693 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: and he would have made a lot of money in 694 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:26,960 Speaker 1: a single day. Is there something wrong with that? Um? Yeah, 695 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 1: because that sounds like manipulation, um, not free speech. Uh. 696 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,839 Speaker 1: And I guess the question, the big question Mark is 697 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 1: what are Must's intentions for Twitter? Um? You know, based 698 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 1: on his tweet, it appears that Must beef with Twitter's 699 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:48,839 Speaker 1: free speech. But what is really needed is upholding free 700 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: speech while dealing with the rampant manipulation of social media platforms. 701 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: And it's not just saying, you know, I like the 702 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: stock where I don't are making jokes and um, you know, 703 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 1: playing games like that. It's the misinformation, the disinformation, the 704 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: likes of which we've seen from Russia, voter suppression, it's racism, sexism, 705 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 1: abuse along those lines. Violence. Um, you know, think about 706 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,720 Speaker 1: the mass killings in El Paso, christ Church, New Zealand, 707 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: not to mention the insurrection on our capital. Um. And 708 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,440 Speaker 1: all of those issues need to be dealt with in 709 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 1: a mosaic. Um. So I think, you know, I think 710 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,240 Speaker 1: Musk might be might be simplifying things in a way. 711 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 1: Um that that just isn't possible. Now, are gin a capital? 712 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,400 Speaker 1: Still has a small steak in Twitter as I understand it, 713 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: but smaller than it once was. Why is that? I mean, 714 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 1: take a look at the stock right, So I wonder 715 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:57,360 Speaker 1: if couldy Lon Musk being good for Twitter shareholders? He 716 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,920 Speaker 1: you know one thing about you know, Elon Musk is 717 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 1: he's a brilliant engineer and he's assistants thinker UM, but 718 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 1: I don't think he's a human or civil rights expert, 719 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: which is really what's needed. So if you look at 720 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,320 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley, they continue to fall over their shoelaces figuring 721 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 1: out how to deal with all of the issues. I 722 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 1: just mentioned this huge mosaic UM, but I don't see 723 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 1: anything in Musk's background that make him the man for 724 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 1: the job UM. I would like, however, to see Must 725 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: support stronger governance at Twitter as now an outside shareholder, 726 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 1: and that could be in the form of board members 727 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,320 Speaker 1: that do have human and civil rights expertise to address 728 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: free speech. So, you know, we've stepped back our positions 729 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: in Twitter because of you know, all of the issues 730 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,919 Speaker 1: it's had, UM, but you know, we do still own 731 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 1: some Twitter and we actually have a proposal going to 732 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:58,400 Speaker 1: a vote on May asking Twitter to add UM board 733 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,879 Speaker 1: members with human and civil rights expertise. That gets exactly 734 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 1: to muscus point. Interesting free speech, that's what you know, 735 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,719 Speaker 1: that's what it's about. So maybe the best outcome is 736 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: that Must can throw his weight behind that proposal and 737 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: support some effort to improve Twitter's board. Now, of course, 738 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,880 Speaker 1: Jack Dorsey left fairly abruptly last year, left s CEO, 739 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: left the board, but it is still a fairly large shareholder, 740 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,160 Speaker 1: has two point three percent Stave. We haven't heard from Jack. 741 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,759 Speaker 1: You know, what was your experience in dealing with him 742 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,800 Speaker 1: as an activist investor? And what do you imagine he's thinking. 743 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think it's a tough job, right, um, 744 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 1: And it was tough for Jack Dorsey, who was also 745 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,480 Speaker 1: splitting his time. I think he was a well intentioned 746 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:50,800 Speaker 1: individual that tried to do the right things at Twitter. Um, 747 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,239 Speaker 1: and you know, and took some steps to do that. 748 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 1: And you know, of course, because it's such a huge mosaic, 749 00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 1: you're going to get criticism from both sides. Um. I 750 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,000 Speaker 1: think it was the right choice for him to step 751 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 1: down and you know, have the new CEO have this 752 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,479 Speaker 1: full time job. But there's still work to be done 753 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 1: to make you know, to to transform the town square 754 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 1: if that's what this is. Um. You know, a lot 755 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 1: of people spend a lot of time on Twitter, but 756 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:23,480 Speaker 1: it's a small, um chunk of the population, and the 757 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 1: manipulation that's happening over these platforms is really unfortunate. Um, 758 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,400 Speaker 1: so you know, we'll see what happens. But there there's 759 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:34,600 Speaker 1: there's room for improvement and and maybe must can be 760 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 1: part of that. Indeed, all right, Natasha lam a lot 761 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,719 Speaker 1: of open questions. Thank you so much for weighing in 762 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 1: and trying to answer some of those. Natosha Lamb of 763 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 1: Argina Capital, thank you as always. And that does it 764 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,800 Speaker 1: for this edition of Bloomberg Technology. We are back here tomorrow. 765 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: We're gonna be joined by Christian Smith, executive director of 766 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 1: the Blockchain Association, and we'll also have an exclusive conversation 767 00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 1: with Johnny Price of we Funder. Don't forget to tell 768 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,320 Speaker 1: back out our new podcast as well. Find it anywhere 769 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:07,480 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. For the daily Bloomberg Tech news 770 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 1: round up, I'm Emily Check in San Francisco. This is 771 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg