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Speaker 1: Don't mean it's a chemical that the human being so

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Speaker 1: deeply desired and we've now been given very quick ways

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Speaker 1: to access it. Are you wanting a life where you're

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Speaker 1: in the pursuit of pleasure and just like momentarily feeling

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Speaker 1: good or do you want like a really happy, fulfilling

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Speaker 1: experience a life.

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Speaker 2: He's a neuroscientist and author TJ.

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Speaker 1: Power. Pornography is like this secret addiction, and that's why

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Speaker 1: I think it's being massively underestimated.

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Speaker 2: You have habits and systems to increase concentration and deep

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Speaker 2: focus by forty eight percent. Yeah, what are they?

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Speaker 3: The number one health and wellness podcast.

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Speaker 2: Jay Shedy J Sheddy Only Sheet. Everyone, Welcome back to

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Speaker 2: On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world.

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Speaker 2: Thanks to each and every one of you that come

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Speaker 2: back every week to listen, learn and grow. Today's guest

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Speaker 2: is someone that I've been really excited to speak to.

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Speaker 2: His name's TJ.

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Speaker 3: Power.

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Speaker 2: He's a neuroscientist and author dedicated to understanding how modern

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Speaker 2: lifestyle habits shape brain chemistry and emotional well being in

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Speaker 2: the digital age. His upcoming book, The Dose Effect is

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Speaker 2: out very soon and focuses on how we can optimize dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin,

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Speaker 2: and endorphins through practical, everyday changes. TJ's research highlights the

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Speaker 2: impact of social media, nature, and technology on mental health,

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Speaker 2: and through his work, he empowers individuals to take control

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Speaker 2: of their minds and lead healthier, more balanced lives. If

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Speaker 2: you don't already follow TJ across social media, you're going

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Speaker 2: to want to follow him right now and straight after

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Speaker 2: this conversation. Please welcome to On Purpose Tjpower. TJ is

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Speaker 2: great to have you.

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Speaker 3: Here, BADJ, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: This is surreal for me, and I'll explain why to

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Speaker 2: the audience. Because eleven years ago I met your dad. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and Thomas Power became a mentor of mine. When I

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Speaker 2: just left the monastery, I had started working at Accentia.

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Speaker 2: Your dad had been brought in as an external consultant

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Speaker 2: to help the company with different aspects of its digital strategy.

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Speaker 2: You we became good friends. He became a mentor, he

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Speaker 2: became a coach, and I'd always say to him, how

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Speaker 2: can I repay you? What can I do for you?

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Speaker 2: Because he did so much for me, helped me build

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Speaker 2: my mindset when it came to work and life and

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Speaker 2: business there's so much influence that your dad's had on

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Speaker 2: me in a very deep way. And he'd always say

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Speaker 2: to me, I'll coach you, and one day you'll coach

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Speaker 2: my kids. And now I feel bad because I can't

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Speaker 2: take any credit for your career success, and so I

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Speaker 2: actually didn't live up to my end of the bargain.

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Speaker 2: He was absolutely wonderful to me and watching you rise. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: and by the way, I just want to put it

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Speaker 2: out they can't take any credit for anything you've done.

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Speaker 2: The incredible rise that you've had and the content you're

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Speaker 2: making is so powerful. It's having such an impact. And

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Speaker 2: I'm having you on the show because I'm a fan

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Speaker 2: and knowing your dad's a bonus, but I think the

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Speaker 2: work that you're doing is phenomenal. So congrats, Bud, and

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Speaker 2: I'm so excited to have you here after having so

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Speaker 2: many dinners and lunches over the years and watching you grow.

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Speaker 2: But the work's so impactful. Thanks for turning up.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me man.

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Speaker 1: You've inspired me so much over this last decade when

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Speaker 1: I became fascinated by this world of mental health and

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Speaker 1: helping people thrive. You're like that person that I turn

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Speaker 1: to on the internet. So it's a magical moment for

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Speaker 1: me to be here.

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Speaker 2: Now, Oh thanks man, But yeah, let's dive into the

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Speaker 2: work because there's so many exciting things to discuss. The

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Speaker 2: first thing I want to ask you is you've got

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Speaker 2: this phrase dose, and dose means so much more than

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Speaker 2: what we think the word means, and it's based on

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Speaker 2: this idea of dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, and doorphins. I think

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Speaker 2: we know very little about these chemicals. We kind of

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Speaker 2: hear these as buzzwords and trend words, and I think

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Speaker 2: what you've done is really demystified them and unpack them

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Speaker 2: for us in a really simple way. Can you walk

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Speaker 2: us through what each of these do for us and

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Speaker 2: how we interact with them on a daily basis one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: I think with these chemicals, you see them talked about

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Speaker 1: a lot on the internet now, and you see them

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Speaker 1: all called kind of feel good and happy hormones, which

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Speaker 1: there is truth in that. But the fascinating thing about

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Speaker 1: really understanding dose is each of these chemicals have a

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Speaker 1: very specific function, and when you begin to understand the

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Speaker 1: symptoms of being low or high in them, you then

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Speaker 1: begin to understand your brain and body much better and

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Speaker 1: you start responding to the different challenges that the modern

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Speaker 1: world brings us in a much better way. If you

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Speaker 1: were to look at dopamine, primary function of dopamine would

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Speaker 1: be motivation, and it also has a secondary function of

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Speaker 1: our attention span. If you find yourself in a situation

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Speaker 1: where you feel like low and deflated and flat and

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Speaker 1: you can't get yourself to take action and do things,

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Speaker 1: it's a very clear sign that dopamine is low and

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Speaker 1: you need something to boost dopamine. You have oxytocin, the

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Speaker 1: connection and the love hormone. If you felt lonely and

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Speaker 1: a little bit unconfident and disconnected, we'd be guided towards oxytocin.

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Speaker 1: Serotonin has a massive impact on our mood and energy,

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Speaker 1: so if you're tired or a bit sad, serotonin would

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Speaker 1: be beautiful. And then endorphins have this incredible function of

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Speaker 1: destressing our brain. In our modern world, the cord sole

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Speaker 1: hormone has become the big stress hormone, which is really

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Speaker 1: accurate dress hormone, but in dolphins, as we'll go on

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Speaker 1: to explore, also play a vital role in calming our

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Speaker 1: brain when it's experienced extreme stress.

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Speaker 2: It's fascinating to me because I don't think we understand

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Speaker 2: how our daily habits affect these chemicals. So walk us

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Speaker 2: through what's actually happening in our brain when we're doom

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Speaker 2: scrolling on social media.

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Speaker 1: Effectively, this all comes down to this concept called phasic

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Speaker 1: and tonic dopamine release. This psychologist called Drea really popularized

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Speaker 1: this back in twenty and eleven. And what you basically

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Speaker 1: see is when we interact with social media, you get

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Speaker 1: a rapid rise in dopamine, which is why when you

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Speaker 1: open the social media app you immediately feel extremely good.

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Speaker 1: Just to put that into context, the whole of dose

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Speaker 1: is built upon something called the evolutionary mismatch hypothesis. This

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Speaker 1: was created by Gluckman, and it's basically this idea that

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Speaker 1: our brain spent three hundred thousand years evolving out in nature,

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Speaker 1: developing these chemicals to help us survive and thrive in

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Speaker 1: that kind of environment, hunting and making fire and building

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Speaker 1: shelter and looking after one another. And with dopamine specifically,

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Speaker 1: the only way we were capable of accessing it was

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Speaker 1: through hard, challenging activities. We had to effectively earn the

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Speaker 1: increase in dopamine, and we might have experienced that like

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Speaker 1: once or twice a day, like the fire finally lit

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Speaker 1: or we successfully caught some food or whatever it may be.

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Speaker 1: In the modern world, this social media example, you experienced

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Speaker 1: that same level of dopamine increase, but you experience it

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Speaker 1: instantaneously within a few seconds because it rises so fast.

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Speaker 1: It then causes this really significant crash in dope me

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Speaker 1: because your brain tries to get back to balance. And

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Speaker 1: so many of us struggle today with this idea of

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Speaker 1: just taking action on what we want to do. Like

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Speaker 1: we're sitting there and we think, yeah, I need to

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Speaker 1: do that bit of work, or yeah I need to

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Speaker 1: go and cook myself a healthy meal, or yeah I

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Speaker 1: need to go and do some exercise, but we can't

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Speaker 1: be bothered and we just like procrastinate it. And that's

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Speaker 1: heavily connected to this overstimulation through social media.

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Speaker 2: It's fascinating to hear that we used to have to

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Speaker 2: earn dopamine. Yeah, how quickly does it diminish? And what

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Speaker 2: does that crash look like.

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Speaker 3: It would be experienced within our behavior.

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Speaker 1: There's actually this big topic you get see, you get

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Speaker 1: seen talked about on TikTok called paralysis, and they also

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Speaker 1: have this phrase called rotting on TikTok where people literally

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Speaker 1: can't move, they can't get themselves to move don't mean

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Speaker 1: right at the core of its function, even impacts our

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Speaker 1: motivation to physically move our body. And if you're in

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Speaker 1: that state where you just can't get yourself to do anything,

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Speaker 1: and loads of us experience this like it's a Saturday morning.

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Speaker 1: We think, oh, I don't have work today, so I'm

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Speaker 1: going to scroll my phone way more and we sit

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Speaker 1: there and we get into this doom scrolling cycle of

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Speaker 1: feeling that elevation in dopamin, this rapid increase of dopamine,

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Speaker 1: and then we eventually find ourselves saying to our mind,

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Speaker 1: like our instinctive mind comes on and says put the

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Speaker 1: phone down, like go do something else, and then you

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Speaker 1: don't really want to.

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Speaker 3: And then even if you do.

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Speaker 1: Put it down, you just can't get yourself to do anything.

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Speaker 1: So it's that symptom of paralysis, not being able to

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Speaker 1: get going.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so what do we do? I believe it all.

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Speaker 1: Starts with how the beginning of your day begins. And

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Speaker 1: it's really important to understand this. Throughout sleep, there's regenerative

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Speaker 1: processes taking place that are creating elevations in dopamine as

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Speaker 1: part of that restoration. And you can imagine this. All

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Speaker 1: of our work is built upon this hunter gather idea

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Speaker 1: of a human being far before our world, in this

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Speaker 1: modern world we live in, had to wake up and

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Speaker 1: do hard things. It was so important to our survival.

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Speaker 1: When we woke up, we'd have a nice amount of

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Speaker 1: dopamine and we'd immediately take action and do challenging stuff. Nowadays,

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Speaker 1: the opposite of that occurs. We wake up, we've got

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Speaker 1: this abundance of dopamine sitting there, and then it's straight

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Speaker 1: to the phone. And I understand, like, this is hard

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Speaker 1: to break. My whole work in this space comes from

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Speaker 1: my own addictions to these things. Like I got a

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Speaker 1: iPhone when I was like eleven years old, So to me,

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Speaker 1: my whole life has been sitting on an iPhone basically,

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Speaker 1: and I spent ten to fifteen years waking up going

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Speaker 1: straight into the phone. And fundamentally, if you develop the

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Speaker 1: discipline to have a thirty minute window before you go

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Speaker 1: into the phone, and we can talk through what the

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Speaker 1: steps in there would include to resist it, that's going

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Speaker 1: to then set that discipline within your life to I

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Speaker 1: have the capacity to resist it, and then once you

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Speaker 1: start training this discipline in your capacity to resist it

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Speaker 1: in other times in your day will grow as well.

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Speaker 2: The fact that you've been using a phone since you're

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Speaker 2: eleven years old kind of puts into perspective because I

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Speaker 2: got my first phone when I was fourteen, but it

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Speaker 2: was one of those phones where you still had to

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Speaker 2: like key in a ring tone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you had to earn the do.

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Speaker 2: I used to sit there for like thirty minutes keying

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Speaker 2: in a ring tone so that I could have my

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Speaker 2: favorite song be my ringtone.

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Speaker 1: For sure, and I had like a few songs on that.

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Speaker 1: You didn't have loads of novelty, loads of different staff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so fascinating, this idea of earning something. And

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Speaker 2: I feel like when you wake up in the morning,

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Speaker 2: it's almost like we want life to be easier and simpler,

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Speaker 2: and everything in our lives has become so instant, whether

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Speaker 2: it's food, coffee, anything, like right, we're looking for something

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Speaker 2: that's quick. How do we train ourselves to be like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I should earn something, Like how do you even make

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Speaker 2: that mindset shift of actually earning something's good versus having

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Speaker 2: it be ready made for me.

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Speaker 1: I think right at the core of that, it comes

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Speaker 1: down to, are you wanting a life where you're in

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Speaker 1: the pursuit of pleasure and just like momentarily feeling good

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Speaker 1: or do you want like a really happy, fulfilling experience

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Speaker 1: a life. And I struggled a lot with various addictions.

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Speaker 1: I struggled a lot with alcoholism, and I have discussed

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Speaker 1: social media, pornography, all these very dopemina activities. And ultimately,

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Speaker 1: if you really spend some time with your mind, I

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Speaker 1: think you have to spend prolonged period of times in

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Speaker 1: nature chatting to yourself about your lifestyle. And if you

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Speaker 1: start really considering, like, is this current lifestyle I have

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Speaker 1: where I work a bit and then I get my

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Speaker 1: pleasure from my phone, and then I do another activity

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Speaker 1: and then I get my pleasure from my phone. Is

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Speaker 1: that ultimately creating a life that you're really loving or

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Speaker 1: is it just creating momentary experiences of pleasure? And I

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Speaker 1: think when you begin having those conversations with yourself and

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Speaker 1: observing more closely how you feel. And this is why

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Speaker 1: I really like people to understand the symptoms of whether

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Speaker 1: you're lower high in these chemicals, because then people start

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Speaker 1: thinking like, Okay, this is why I'm feeling that way,

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Speaker 1: and then they tie it to the phone and then

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Speaker 1: they're like, okay, I need to start phone fasting, which

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Speaker 1: is what we call it, these prolonged breaks from it.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's that mindset shift around pleasure versus happiness.

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Speaker 2: What's the longest you've ever done a phone for us?

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Speaker 3: I did three years ago.

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Speaker 1: I did seven days no phone whatsoever, no phone seven days.

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Speaker 1: I actually wouldn't recommend that as a solution. It's really

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Speaker 1: interesting because I've been really niching into this world of

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Speaker 1: the phone connect. I think fundamentally, when you look at

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Speaker 1: mental health, there has been a lot of quick dopaminergic

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Speaker 1: activities for the last hundred years, be that alcohol or

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Speaker 1: cigarettes or sugary food or whatever it may be. But

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Speaker 1: mental health has shifted rapidly since the iPhone became a thing.

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Speaker 1: And then if you look at since COVID, when we

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Speaker 1: start really scrolling the short videos, mental health has declined

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Speaker 1: even further. And I think the big reason that's the

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Speaker 1: case is because we can more frequently engage with dopamin

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Speaker 1: via the phone than the dopamine we used to get

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Speaker 1: from those other sources. You might eat sugar three times

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Speaker 1: a day, you might drink once a day, you might

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Speaker 1: watch pornography once a day social media. Like with the

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Speaker 1: DO Lab where we do our research, we see people

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Speaker 1: opening their phone about one hundred and forty to one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty times a day. So it's that frequency

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Speaker 1: of increase which is challenging, which brings us to that

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Speaker 1: phone fasting idea. Now, I tried seven days off. I

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Speaker 1: tried three days off. The difficulty is because we're operating

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Speaker 1: in such a rapid society with the amount of information

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Speaker 1: coming at us on our email and what's happened with

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Speaker 1: our jobs. I think big breaks from it can actually

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Speaker 1: be very stressful when you turn the phone back on.

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Speaker 1: And what we've seen in our research is if people

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Speaker 1: commit to short, frequent breaks where they know the morning

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Speaker 1: is a frequent break, they'll always do. They have a

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Speaker 1: sixty minute phone fast in the evening, they have a

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Speaker 1: prolonged one in the middle of the day. If they

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Speaker 1: have these frequent breaks rather than long breaks, that actually

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Speaker 1: seems to be more effective. Definitely for me as well.

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Speaker 2: I could agree with you more. I've done those phone

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Speaker 2: fast as well. For a while, and there are times

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Speaker 2: in my year where I think that that can be important.

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Speaker 2: But overall, I fully agree with you that I think

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Speaker 2: if you're going oscling between these extremes, you just keep

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Speaker 2: kind of pinging back and forth, and so you go

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Speaker 2: from being really addicted to doing the phone fast and

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Speaker 2: going back to being really addicted, and that can get

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Speaker 2: really exhausting and really really tiring. And so what has

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Speaker 2: been your best set of tips that you've found for

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Speaker 2: someone who doesn't want to look at their phone first

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Speaker 2: thing in the morning or to not turn to that

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Speaker 2: because you said the morning is so important. What do

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Speaker 2: we do? Because I feel like that's the first thing.

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Speaker 2: You know, eighty percent of us to look at our

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Speaker 2: phones first thing in the morning lasting at night. We

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Speaker 2: look at it before we look at our partners and

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Speaker 2: our kids after we look at them at night. Our

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Speaker 2: phone gets more FaceTime than the people we love, Like

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Speaker 2: that is our life. What do we do?

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Speaker 1: We have these four underlying laws for each of the

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Speaker 1: chemicals dopmine, oxitose, and serotonin, and dolphins. The underlying law

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Speaker 1: from all of the research we looked into, Like in

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Speaker 1: this book, there's like two hundred and fifty studies we

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Speaker 1: explored around these topics. Fundamentally, the law that we found

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Speaker 1: to be most appropriate with dopamine is take action as

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Speaker 1: soon as you wake every day, and that fundamentally means

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Speaker 1: you wake, you don't snooze your alarm. As painful as

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Speaker 1: it is, but simply beating that challenge of oh I

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Speaker 1: could just lie in bed and stay in this comfort

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Speaker 1: and doing something that's difficult is beginning that dope mean increase.

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Speaker 1: We then get people to if they really struggle with snoozing,

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Speaker 1: to literally when the alarm goes off, just sit at

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Speaker 1: the side of the bed and just get themselves out

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Speaker 1: of the prone position effectively and sit there. We then

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Speaker 1: get them to go straight to the bathroom if you can.

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Speaker 1: You then start brushing your teeth. Brushing your teeth is

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Speaker 1: an annoying slow activity. Again, you're earning dopemine. Like if

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Speaker 1: you do it for twenty seconds, you always know that, oh,

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Speaker 1: I feel a bit guilt for the fact I just

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Speaker 1: did twenty seconds. You do the two minutes you think, yes,

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Speaker 1: task and play. So you go to the bathroom and

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Speaker 1: brush your teeth, You splash cold water on your face,

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Speaker 1: and you come back and you make your bed. There's

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Speaker 1: this brilliant psychologist called Walton that looked at the relationship

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Speaker 1: between dopamine and effort, and it's very clear that if

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Speaker 1: you utilize effort right at the beginning of your day,

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Speaker 1: your dop means starting on that nice slow curve, motivation

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Speaker 1: then builds and then your capacity to further resist the

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Speaker 1: phone and maybe get outside for a walk or do

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Speaker 1: some exercise, or get to your desk or make your

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Speaker 1: kids breakfast. It's going to come from an easier place

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Speaker 1: than the wake up, spike, dove, mean and crash and

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Speaker 1: then try and get going from there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great advice. So I think one thing that

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Speaker 2: helped me out for a while was I have a

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Speaker 2: few instrumentals or music that I like, and I'll have

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Speaker 2: that on my phone. So I'll wake up and I'll

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Speaker 2: put this song on because I know I have the

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Speaker 2: urge to pick up my phone and I'll press plate

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Speaker 2: and then the phone's with me while I'm brushing my teeth.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not now scrolling because I'm now listening to something.

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Speaker 2: And I know people do it with podcasts, people do

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Speaker 2: it with audio meditation, whatever it may be. For me,

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Speaker 2: it's it's music. That reminds me of being back in

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Speaker 2: the monastery. And so I'll play that and it's just

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Speaker 2: like the soundtrack to My Morning Nice And it may

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Speaker 2: have birds chirpping, it may have nature sounds, it may

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Speaker 2: have a bit of water like it's these and for me,

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Speaker 2: that allows me to feel like there's something distracted. Is

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Speaker 2: that bad? Is that good? Like? What's your take on that?

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Speaker 2: Be honest with me.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting and there is so much nuance with how

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the day starts, and we get these

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Speaker 1: questions all the time in our training and things like that. Fundamentally,

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Speaker 1: the appslue gold standard would be you don't see a

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Speaker 1: phone for thirty years.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: However, there are scenarios where definitely a phone is not

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Speaker 1: disadvantageous to these chemicals. So if you think about listening

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Speaker 1: to music as long as you're not rapidly tapping through

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Speaker 1: it and just listening to a song, that's okay. If

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Speaker 1: you woke up and it's part of your routines, go

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Speaker 1: straight into a meditation utilizing a meditation app.

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Speaker 3: Again, that's a good use of your time.

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Speaker 1: I know many people like, because of the brainwave state,

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Speaker 1: to go straight into meditation when they wake.

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Speaker 3: This is the where it gets interesting.

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Speaker 1: You really want to make sure that the phone doesn't

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Speaker 1: charge directly by your head.

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Speaker 3: That's like a gold standard rule.

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Speaker 1: It can't be charging there because our willpower goes up

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Speaker 1: and down depending actually on our dopmein levels and different

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Speaker 1: areas of our brain being activated. Willpower in the morning

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Speaker 1: is going to be slightly lower if the phone is there.

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Speaker 1: It's irresistible. I always have this like when I come away,

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Speaker 1: for example, we're here at the moment, I don't have

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Speaker 1: my alarm, so then my phone has to become my alarm.

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Speaker 3: And suddenly it's like where is the phone going to be?

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Speaker 1: And I have to make sure that it charges the

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Speaker 1: other side of the room so it still wakes me.

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Speaker 1: But I don't have that moment. I might just quickly

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Speaker 1: check with that in mind. When you do check, if

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Speaker 1: there's a whole stream of notifications, again, it's going to

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Speaker 1: create this anticipatory rise in dopemin. Then you're going in.

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Speaker 1: You're not going to be able to resist it. So

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Speaker 1: you need to really be on airplane mode when you're

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Speaker 1: going to sleep, so you wake up and there's nothing there.

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Speaker 1: You then have these really nuanced components of if you

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Speaker 1: want to go into meditation app, like I have these

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Speaker 1: things that I want to do, I would open the phone,

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Speaker 1: click the app, then on aeroplane it so you haven't

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Speaker 1: seen a notification, do your meditation, come back out, go

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Speaker 1: away from the phone. But fundamentally, we've trained like fifty

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Speaker 1: people in dose. It is so clear that if people

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Speaker 1: have thirty minutes when they wait without going on their phone,

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Speaker 1: it creates a radical shift in their experience of life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember when I first trained myself, I had

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Speaker 2: to have to lock my phone in my car outside

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Speaker 2: because it was just so addictive. And I found, especially

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Speaker 2: in moments of high anxiety and high tension, like whether

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Speaker 2: there's something in the news cycle, whether there's you know,

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Speaker 2: just everything that we get sucked into. I found that

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Speaker 2: having my phone out of the room is like a must,

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Speaker 2: because I found like how hard it is to get

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Speaker 2: good quality sleep when your phone's right there and you're

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Speaker 2: either on it at night or you're on it first

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Speaker 2: thing in the morning, and you're getting sucked into the

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Speaker 2: latest updates, the latest news, whatever it is, and the

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Speaker 2: anxiety and stress that you're taking on is colossal for sure.

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Speaker 1: And the nighttime component is really key as well to consider,

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Speaker 1: like it's almost quite pleasurable just lying bed and just

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Speaker 1: like doom scroll, your brain sleep. We train a lot

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Speaker 1: of schools and a lot of kids literally will just

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Speaker 1: go sleep in TikTok.

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Speaker 3: That's just how their brains sleep.

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Speaker 1: And we look at all their screen times and some

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Speaker 1: of them have like sixteen seventeen hours a day of

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Speaker 1: screen time, but we look into that and they're about

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Speaker 1: nine to ten hours in the daytime. But it's larger

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Speaker 1: that TikTok just stays open throughout the night because if

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Speaker 1: they wake, they then just click next videos, so sound

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Speaker 1: continues because a lot of I struggle with like the quiet.

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Speaker 3: Effectively, if you.

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Speaker 1: Need some kind of stimulation at night time, of course,

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Speaker 1: like reading would be incredible if that's an option for

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Speaker 1: you and you could achieve doing reading, that would be

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Speaker 1: a perfect act. But if you were going to think, okay,

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Speaker 1: I need some kind of stimulation, you want to think,

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Speaker 1: how can I do something that's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a slower release dopmine activity that's still on technology. So

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Speaker 1: for me, there will be evenings where I think I

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Speaker 1: really want to watch a podcast. For example, if you

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Speaker 1: were to sit and you were to put like a

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Speaker 1: tablet across your bed and you would sit and watch

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Speaker 1: a podcast that's nowhere nearest stimulating as like an Instagram

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Speaker 1: reels feed because the novelty is different. Like you sit

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Speaker 1: and you watch a podcast the first like five to

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Speaker 1: ten minutes, you're kind of getting into it and you're

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Speaker 1: getting hold of the storyline, and your dopemin is gradually increasing.

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Speaker 1: You open social media, it's like rapid, Okay, now I'm

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Speaker 1: in and I'm engaged. That difference is really important to

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Speaker 1: understand because if we're just burning our dope mein before

436
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,040
Speaker 1: we go to sleep, it's highly likely we're going to

437
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,040
Speaker 1: wake up in this more deflated, low willpower type state.

438
00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,960
Speaker 1: If you can have a slower dopamine technological activity at night.

439
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,359
Speaker 3: It's going to be better for those mornings.

440
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's actually happening though? So I love that idea

441
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,520
Speaker 2: of slow release versus instant release, But what's actually happening

442
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,480
Speaker 2: in a fast release and why does that lead to

443
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,680
Speaker 2: lower willpower and lower motivation.

444
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,280
Speaker 1: It's really important to just understand that the brain chemical

445
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,280
Speaker 1: evolved simply to be earned over a long period of time.

446
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,640
Speaker 1: Like if you actually imagine the challenging activity of being outdoors.

447
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,920
Speaker 1: You have a family and you have to spend ten

448
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 1: hours in the cold building a shelter. Your brain wasn't

449
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 1: designed to just give you a really quick dopain he

450
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:45,399
Speaker 1: because then you think, oh nice, I feel good now

451
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,919
Speaker 1: I'm done, far before the task was complete. So it

452
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 1: evolved to slowly increase dope. Meine operates with these little

453
00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:53,640
Speaker 1: vesicles in your brain. You can imagine them as little

454
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,000
Speaker 1: bubbles that go across your synapses. Those bubbles are desired

455
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,600
Speaker 1: to slowly transfer across the signapses as more more effort

456
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,680
Speaker 1: is engaged. As soon as you open the social media

457
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 1: immediately a ton of those vesticles are rapidly going across

458
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 1: the sign apps. And that's why your brain is like, wow,

459
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,200
Speaker 1: this feels really good. Your brain starts thinking like, I'm

460
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:12,399
Speaker 1: not going to be able to cope with this. This

461
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,639
Speaker 1: is unusual for my brain to be increasing at this level.

462
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:17,800
Speaker 1: And then you have the brain seeking to try and

463
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,520
Speaker 1: get yourself back into balance. Our brain always seeks homeostasis,

464
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,440
Speaker 1: as does our body. And if you think about a

465
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 1: medical show you may have watched on TV before, when

466
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 1: you see someone having an issue with their heart, you

467
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 1: see this rapid increase then rapid decline, rapid increase, rapid decline,

468
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,119
Speaker 1: And that's because the heart is increasing because of some

469
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,200
Speaker 1: kind of physiological difficulty, but it keeps trying to slow

470
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,359
Speaker 1: it down because it's trying to keep it at a

471
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,280
Speaker 1: balance level. The exact same thing happens with the dopamine,

472
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 1: because it experiences a rapid increase and then goes, oh

473
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 1: my god, try and slow the productions, Try and slow

474
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 1: the production. It slows the production. Then as we have

475
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,920
Speaker 1: less vesicles happening because of the social media, we're then like, oh,

476
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,440
Speaker 1: can't Boss do anything? We procrastinate against this low will

477
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 1: power experience.

478
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,640
Speaker 2: Well, thanks for explaining that. I was like, I've never

479
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 2: heard that before. So it's super useful to get what's

480
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 2: going on behind the scenes, because I think naturally, when

481
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,199
Speaker 2: we're doing it, we don't see any of that you

482
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,920
Speaker 2: were mentioning a few seconds ago, this idea, the difference

483
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 2: between how we can sense whether we're high or low

484
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 2: in each of these chemicals, is that right for sure?

485
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,919
Speaker 2: Could you walk us through some of the symptoms and

486
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,000
Speaker 2: you can either choose to start a dopamine or if

487
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 2: you think we've talked about that, switchtoxotocin.

488
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, so just to remind the dopmin If you're procrastinating,

489
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 1: you're lower motivation, you can't focus, is a clear sign

490
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,400
Speaker 1: that you need some kind of challenging activity. I'm very

491
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 1: aware that in that state, that's the worst thing you

492
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:35,399
Speaker 1: want to do. You're like, I don't want to do

493
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 1: anything difficult right now. This is why, for example, cold

494
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 1: showers have become so popular in our modern world because

495
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,120
Speaker 1: they're absolute hell, pure pain, very challenging, and they will

496
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 1: rebuild the dopamine. So, dop mean, if you're in that

497
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,360
Speaker 1: low motivation state, that's when you need a challenging activity.

498
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 2: Let me ask you that question. Actually, so what are

499
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 2: the other So how do we build dopamine in a

500
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:55,360
Speaker 2: healthy way?

501
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,880
Speaker 1: First one would be the phone fast when you wake up.

502
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 1: Second one would be any kind of discipline in your

503
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 1: home environment. That's not like a super sexy way to

504
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 1: build it, but it's very clear.

505
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 3: That it has a positive effect.

506
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 1: If I give you the example of having to change

507
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 1: and wash our bedding, we all hate that activity. It's

508
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 1: like you wake up one day and you think, wow,

509
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 1: that bed looks like it needs washing. A week later,

510
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, I definitely need now wash. You take

511
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: all the sheets of jam it in the washing machine,

512
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: then you have to wait for it to dry, and

513
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 1: that's so boring, and then you have to go the

514
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 1: proce of actually butting it, buttoning it all back up.

515
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: Eventually that evening, though, you find yourself getting into your

516
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: freshly washed bed and it's literally one of the most

517
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 1: rewarding human experiences when the sheet is tight and it's

518
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: all really nice as you get in. You never get

519
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 1: into your bed and think, I feel really annoyed that

520
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: I bothered to wash my bedding today. It's like the

521
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 1: opposite experience, whereas you do sometimes feel annoyed at yourself

522
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,120
Speaker 1: for overscrolling. And this is our brain having very sophisticated

523
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 1: guidance mechanisms. Don't mean it's here just to reward anything

524
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 1: that's advantageous. So you have the phone fast any kind

525
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 1: of discipline in your home environment. And I do want

526
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 1: to stress that one like we all have to do

527
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: this annoying to empty dish washes, take out bins, and

528
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,160
Speaker 1: if you start framing it in your head as something

529
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: that's actually elevating your motivation and elevating your experis alive.

530
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 1: It shifts, what those annoying tasks are for us all.

531
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 1: We then have cold water immersion. There's been a big

532
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: topic Andrew Human has been really popular on this. There's

533
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: that amazing study that came out back in two thousand

534
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 1: that show we have a two hundred and fifty percent

535
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: increase in dope mein when we put ourselves into a

536
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 1: significantly cold environment. So if you can do the cold,

537
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: that's awesome. Our next one is this one called my Pursuit,

538
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: and this is really really key to understand with dopamine.

539
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: There's the chat from Cambridge University called Schultz who in

540
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight looked at the different times in which

541
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: dopamine increases, and what you fundamentally see is that dopamine

542
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,399
Speaker 1: is actually at its highest point just before we achieve something,

543
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: not actually when we achieve the goal itself. And this

544
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 1: is really important to consider in our lives because if

545
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 1: you go back to that hunter gatherer example, given the

546
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 1: dopamine is the motivation and attention molecule, it's very useful.

547
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 1: So you were hunting for an animal, just before you

548
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: hunt it, you need the most dopamine. When you've actually

549
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 1: got it, you don't necessarily need as much as just

550
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 1: that moment period to really motivate you to push.

551
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 3: The final part.

552
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: When we look at our life today, a lot of

553
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 1: us can think that our happiest life is when we

554
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: achieve the thing. But it's very clear from a research

555
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: point of view that our happiest life is actually simply

556
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,719
Speaker 1: when we're in the pursuit of the goal itself. And

557
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: we get people to go out for about thirty minutes

558
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: into nature without their headphones. Were always promoting to be

559
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: in nature without headphones and simply for a whole thirty minutes,

560
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 1: ask themselves the question, what is my primary pursuit right now?

561
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: Once they start considering what it is, maybe they have

562
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 1: a creative pursuit of pursuit with their family, their work,

563
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: their health. They ask themselves why is that? And they

564
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 1: spend another ten minutes really trying to clarify why that's

565
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 1: the case. Then they go into the process of how

566
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: the hell am I going to get towards that goal?

567
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 1: And a consistent daily pursuit, a consistent daily striving for

568
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: something that's beyond your comfort zone is so incredible for

569
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 1: this system.

570
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 2: It's so interesting to me because I feel like when

571
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 2: you're in that space. Like you said earlier, it's the

572
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 2: last thing you want to do. But I've realized over

573
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 2: time that things are good for me feel terrible before

574
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 2: and feel amazing after. And that's the open yeah, And

575
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 2: things that are unhealthy for me are bad for me

576
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 2: feel great before and terrible afterwards. Right like what you

577
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 2: just said about if you've got to clean your bed

578
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 2: sheets and all of that, when you're doing it, you're like,

579
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 2: this is the biggest waste of my time. After when

580
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 2: you get in bed, it feels great, whereas leaving a

581
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 2: dirty feels good and like being lazy and just be like, oh,

582
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 2: I can't be bothered whatever. But then when you get

583
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 2: in bed, you're like, oh, this is filthy, right. And

584
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 2: so it's interesting how I've I've had to consciously focus

585
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 2: on how I feel after something, like even now I've

586
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 2: been I had surgery last year, and then so I

587
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 2: got no two years ago and I had surgery, couldn't

588
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 2: really lift weights for a while. I got back into

589
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 2: lifting probably consistently only a couple months back. Nice, and

590
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 2: so I've been working out, you know, five days a

591
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 2: week for the last just over a month. It's been great,

592
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 2: and I don't enjoy. Like, if you ask me to

593
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: play sports, I can play sports any day. You ask

594
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 2: me to play football, I'd love to play football. You

595
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 2: tell me we go work out at the gym. I

596
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: don't really love it, but I know it's important for me,

597
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 2: especially with my age and what I'm trying to do

598
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 2: with my body. And so I've had to convince myself

599
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 2: of how I feel after a workout to get in

600
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 2: the gym. And I know for a fact that I

601
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: never regret going to the gym after it, but before

602
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 2: I'm always tempted to text either my mate or my

603
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 2: trainer and go, don't want to forget it. I'm just

604
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 2: tired today, right, And so it's almost like what does

605
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 2: it take to kind of let go of that immediate

606
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 2: instant feeling that we all have of like press the

607
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 2: snooze button, message my mate and cancel the hike, cancel

608
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 2: on my trainer, don't turn up to that class, even

609
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 2: though I already paid in advance. Like what do you

610
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 2: do with that tiny little thought that pops in that

611
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 2: kind of sets us all off on the wrong course?

612
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 2: Do you relate to that? By the way, is that yeah?

613
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: So much?

614
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: I literally struggled so much with the addiction to everything

615
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 1: I live. For ten years in a life where I

616
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 1: just wasn't completing the challenging activities that life has to offer.

617
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: I lived an easy dough for me, so I relate massively.

618
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 1: We tried to convince ourselves.

619
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 3: To go to the gym this morning. It was brutal

620
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 3: to get ourselves there.

621
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 1: But I had this today and I was thinking, no,

622
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to elevate my dopemins through this hard work

623
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 1: in the gym. That's going to put me in a

624
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: more motivated state. It gives me a highlightlihood to have

625
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: a good attention span during this conversation.

626
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 3: So I think considering the.

627
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: Ultimate outcome of the action and how it's going to

628
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: impact your day ahead is key. There is this fundamental

629
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: principle of dopamine that I really want people to understand though.

630
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: And then with this idea, rather than needing to go

631
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: on Instagram and think, Okay, what those good doping activities

632
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 1: and what are the bad ones, with this simple principle,

633
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: you just know. And whilst obviously it's good to look

634
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: at those posts on Instagram that's what I post all

635
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: the time, having this base understanding is very motivating. This

636
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: chemical evolved within us for a very long time, and

637
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: it evolved for one simple reason, to promote the survival

638
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: of our specie. Without dopamine, we simply wouldn't be here.

639
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: We would have never pushed ourselves to scratch rocks together

640
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: for three hours to make the fire to keep our

641
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: family warm. We would never would have gone through a

642
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: Sahara desert for three hours in order to find a

643
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: little bit of fruit to keep our family alive. It

644
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: was rewarding the ridiculously challenging actor that kept us alive,

645
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: just as doth Mean for all that time, had a

646
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: very sophisticated way of communicating with humanity to keep us

647
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 1: doing the hard things. Nowadays, we're experiencing the opposite message

648
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: from this chemical. Fundamentally, doth Me knows at its core

649
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 1: that over engaging with pornography and no longer having sex

650
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: with people is not good for the survival of our specie.

651
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: Eating too much sugar and not eating enough protein is

652
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: not good for the survival of our specie. Living a

653
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: very isolated teenage life and no longer building friendships and

654
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: working in your school life and scrolling social media is

655
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: not good for the survival of humanity. And it's really

656
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: important to understand that whenever you're engaging in activity, if

657
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: you simply observe the activity and think, ultimately, does this

658
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: increase or decrease my survival and you think xcise obviously,

659
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: increase protein, obviously, increase sugar, obviously, decrease pornography ultimately does

660
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: technically decrease because it's reducing procreation. And then you have

661
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,239
Speaker 1: this fundamental principle when you then are looking at your

662
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: activities and thinking how am I going to engage with

663
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: my day?

664
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 3: You really want to be thinking how am I going.

665
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: To do activities that are going to lead to my

666
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: day being the best experience it can be. And this

667
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: comes downs that difference of do I just want to

668
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: feel short term pleasure or do I want to feel

669
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: really happy? And I had these questions with myself in

670
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: my mind, I went on these walks every day in nature.

671
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: I literally equate the entirety of my career, my working life,

672
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: my ability to find my beautiful partner to walking in

673
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: nature every day and having a proper, truthful conversation with

674
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: myself of am I only in the pursuit of pleasure?

675
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: And is that going to be my experience of life

676
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: or am I going to experience a life that feels

677
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: really happy and fulfilling? And when I wake in the morning,

678
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: like this morning, and I think, Oh, I wonder what's

679
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: been happening on social media? I want how many likes

680
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: I got on this thing, whatever it might be, I

681
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,479
Speaker 1: asked myself the question do I want pleasure or do

682
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: I want a really happy, fulfilling day, And that ultimate

683
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: conversation leads to better decision making.

684
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great way to look at it, and

685
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: I'm glad that you laid it out across the board.

686
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: I mean, you've mentioned pornography a few times, and I

687
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 2: feel like that's become just such a big issue now

688
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 2: where I feel like when I was growing up, it

689
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 2: was less of an issue. Then when it kind of

690
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: took off, it was something that you kind of heard

691
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 2: and people didn't talk about it as much, and now

692
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: it's become like totally public, Like you know, there's talk

693
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 2: about it in mainstream news, and not in a positive sense,

694
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 2: but in the sense of you just see it becoming

695
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: more normalized. But that doesn't mean people are using it less,

696
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 2: if that makes sense, Like, yeah, for sure, does that

697
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 2: definitely rapidly rise, and yeah, it's rapidly right. It's definitely

698
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 2: at least now getting communicated about it is getting communicated about, yeah,

699
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 2: but it isn't necessarily like, oh, we're talking about it more.

700
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 2: You'd hope that, like, for example, when we talk about

701
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 2: mental health more, you'd hope that it gets destigmatizing then people,

702
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 2: whereas with pornography, it's kind of like it's being talked

703
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 2: about more, but it's usage is like going through the roof,

704
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 2: and so it's like, what, what have you seen work

705
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: for people there? You've worked with people in doughs. I'm

706
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 2: sure you've worked with people who've had like really deep

707
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 2: pornography addictions.

708
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: Pornography addiction is fascinating because it's very different to alcohol

709
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: and social media and sugar because it's very private. And

710
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: when you say, for example, get really into alcohol and

711
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: you become an alcohol like or maybe you just slightly overdrink,

712
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: it becomes very apparent to your family and your friends

713
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: that you're drinking a lot, whether you're going out partying

714
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: a lot, or like every time you socialize, you're always

715
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: requiring wine and beer in order to have a good time.

716
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: The same happens with the phone like you're always engaging

717
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: with it. The same happens with sugar. Pornography is like

718
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: this secret addiction that society has, and that's why I

719
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: think it's being massively underestimated. And where with these other

720
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,959
Speaker 1: actions things like eating chocolate, we know it has one

721
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty percent increase in dove mean from baseline,

722
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: causing the spike and crash. When we engage with something

723
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: like alcohol, it's a two hundred percent increase, cocaine two

724
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,719
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty percent increase. All of these different studies

725
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: are showing us a lot about those actions, but very

726
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: little is showing us much about pornography because it's a

727
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: very private behavior. When we look into how people solve it, fundamentally,

728
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: people need to become very clear as to how it's

729
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: actually impacting their life. There's the whole moral and ethical

730
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: side of pornography, and if that can motivate someone away

731
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: from it, that's incredible. We're obviously looking with the dough

732
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: lab more at what is it actually doing to your

733
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,719
Speaker 1: experience of life and your motivation and your dopamine levels.

734
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: And for me, I grew up as someone that started

735
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: engaging in porn I was like thirteen fourteen, I just

736
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: heard that was a thing, searched on Google, discovered it

737
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: was a thing, massive amount of pleasure, and then watched it.

738
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: For like ten years of my life. I didn't think

739
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: anything of it or my friends watched it. I didn't

740
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: even feel any real guilt or shame around watching it

741
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: because it was so normalized in the world that I

742
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: grew up in, and it's very unusual to even be

743
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: in this moment now, Like I never thought, oh, pornography

744
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: is going to be something I hope I talk about

745
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: one day on a show. But this really needs to

746
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: be considered with mental health. It's something that society is

747
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: definitely underestimating because if you think through the lens of

748
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: sex versus pornography, and this idea of earning dopamine, sex,

749
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: especially like a nice, intimate, loving experience of sex, is

750
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: a slow progress. It's like you have a period of

751
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: time together and maybe you have dinner together, and then

752
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: you cuddle and then you kiss, and then eventually you

753
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: have an intimate experience and then eventually have sex. It

754
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: might be like twenty thirty minutes before that moment has happened.

755
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: Pornography is very different. It's I'm scrolling Instagram, or that

756
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: person's pretty good looking. Now I'm on a porn website,

757
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: and within sixty seconds, it's like, you're all the way there.

758
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 3: Your don't mean it's so high.

759
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: We then went through the process of getting people to

760
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: just try and have seven days without watching it. Just okay,

761
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: seven days, you're not going to watch it. If you

762
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: need to engage with the activity, you simply watch it.

763
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: You simply do the activity, but you use your imagination,

764
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: and even with that, you try and reduce it to

765
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: maybe twice a week rather than what a lot of people,

766
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: particularly men, but I think women struggle with this as well.

767
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: That's what we're seeing in our research and now doing

768
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: it sort of seven days a week, you have seven

769
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: days off and you very closely observe your motivation, your

770
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: attention span, and your general kind of enthusiasm and excitement

771
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: for life. People then come off it for the first time,

772
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: maybe in their whole life, because they never even considered

773
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: it was a factor in their mental health. They spend

774
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: seven days off it, and they start genuinely noticing a difference.

775
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: They're like, wow, I actually feel different without this activity.

776
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: I felt so different when I first came off it.

777
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: I remember texting some of my friends and they're like, God,

778
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: what is teaching going to have us doing?

779
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 3: Now there's like, now we've got a gret porn doing.

780
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: They then came off it for seven days and they're like, wow,

781
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: I actually noticed a very signific difference. You then extend

782
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: that to two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, very rapidly.

783
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: You see a significant difference as a result of your

784
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 1: dopemein baseline beginning to not have this constant destruction. Once

785
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: you have that period of absidence, a beginning of a

786
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: seed is planted within your brain and body that it

787
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 1: begins to see the pornography in a different way. As

788
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: the frequency reduces, the motivation rapidly rises in your life

789
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: and you start thinking, oh, maybe it's something I could

790
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: let guy.

791
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 2: What about people who are saying like, well, if it's

792
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 2: it's natural, it helps me destress. It's what I turn to.

793
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,280
Speaker 2: You know, it feels easy, It gives me a release,

794
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 2: like anyone who's coming up with any of that. And

795
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 2: for the people who did it for those seven days,

796
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 2: who were like, well all I was thinking about was

797
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 2: porn the whole time, Sure, easily like I'm sure that

798
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 2: was a reaction. How do you encourage those people to

799
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 2: deal with that kind of a notion or that instinctual

800
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 2: reaction to being like, well, that's what I feel like

801
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: I want to do naturally right now.

802
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: Wanting an orgasm is a very natural experience for the

803
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: brain and body. It's of course amazing if you can

804
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 1: have those experiences with your partner, but we go through

805
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: period where we're away from our partner, or maybe we

806
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: don't have a partner and we're still seeking for an orgasm.

807
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: When someone is seeking to de stress through that experience,

808
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: the orgasm is all they need. It's not the pornography

809
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 1: that's also needed. And if you go through the experience

810
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: the process of masturbating without pornography, you also notice the

811
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: same dopamine curve of your earning the reward, and it's

812
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: a slower process and you have to get yourself into

813
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: that experience. Eventually you experience the rise of dope, mean

814
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: you feel pleasure and afterwards you don't feel this really deflated,

815
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: flat feeling that you do when you watch porn. And

816
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: it's really important to understand that someone can just go

817
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: through a period of time of utilizing their imagination whenever

818
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: they're seeking for that activity. If it's impossible with your imagination,

819
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: you could look at a photo. But similar to that

820
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 1: example I gave earlier where at night you're trying to

821
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: go towards long form content over short form. With pornography,

822
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: you're just trying to get away from really rapid stimulation.

823
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: So if reducing it down to one video was like

824
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: the possible thing to do, then reducing it down to

825
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: a picture, then going down to imagination, that progressive journey,

826
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: if you're finding it superredictive, it's super hard to quit,

827
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 1: would be a path that you could follow.

828
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 2: It's such an interesting conversation when you're looking at it

829
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,919
Speaker 2: through dose. Like, I think that's what's so interesting because

830
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 2: I think for so long people have talked about moral reasons,

831
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 2: ethical reasons, or whatever it may be. Now when you

832
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 2: hear about it from a scientific perspective, you're just like,

833
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 2: oh wow, Like I had no idea what I'm doing

834
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,959
Speaker 2: to my brain for sure, And I'm hoping that everyone

835
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 2: who's listening and watching and struggling with these things. You know,

836
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 2: I don't think meal TJ judging anyone or make anyone

837
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 2: feel bad about it, But really realizing what we're doing

838
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 2: to ourselves. For sure, when I have it's don't change.

839
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: And the judgment piece on all this doth me stuff

840
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: is so important to consider, Like I would have zero

841
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,479
Speaker 1: judgment for yourself if you currently wake up and scroll

842
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: your phone for an hour, or if you eat a

843
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: lot of sugar.

844
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 3: Or if you watch pornography all the time.

845
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,959
Speaker 1: We didn't all wake up one there's babies and set

846
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: up the world that we're all living in today. We've

847
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: just been born into it. These are the options we have.

848
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: Dopin is a chemical that the human being so deeply desires,

849
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: and we've now been given very quick ways to access it.

850
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 3: There is no judgment.

851
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: I over engaged with everything, worse than probably everyone that's listening,

852
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: and it's really important to understand that there is a

853
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: path where you can come away from judging yourself from it,

854
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: but start considering is this ultimately leading to me having

855
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: my happiest experience alive. The only reason people are sitting

856
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: and listening to these podcasts is because they want to learn.

857
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: They want to feel happier or more fulfilled and more

858
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: connected to people, whatever it may be. And this is

859
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: a fundamental component optimizing our dopmine and getting it back

860
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 1: into balance.

861
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:32,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, and You're right about this secret hidden addiction, because

862
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people struggle with like, like,

863
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: if you saw your partner drinking too much, you could

864
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 2: talk to them about it. If you saw them on

865
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 2: their phone too much, you could talk to them about it.

866
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 2: And I think people always feel very betrayed when they

867
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 2: find out that their partner's been using porn or whatever

868
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 2: it may be, and like there's a feeling of not

869
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: knowing how to bring it up and how to talk

870
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: about it. And I've had I've had a lot of

871
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 2: people reach out to me recently because it's been such

872
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 2: an issue in their relationship, and I've said to them,

873
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 2: it's kind of you've got to treat it like the

874
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: other ones, in a for sure, compassionate, understanding way to

875
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 2: raise it with your partner. It's not something that just

876
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 2: calling it out will help.

877
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: Definitely, my partner and I met earlier this year, and

878
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: it was definitely a conversation we had. I spent like

879
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: the last five years coming off it. A few years ago,

880
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 1: I really like cut the cord and there would be

881
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: these moments where once a month, once every two months,

882
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: I'd be sitting there and think, oh, yeah, I could

883
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: watch pornograph. I could have that stimulation that de stress

884
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: as we talked about before, and having a good open

885
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: dialogue around This is why I used to engage with it.

886
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: This is how we could potentially enhance our sex life

887
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: and our experience together in order to fulfill that aspect

888
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: of what you're seeking for in porn. I think many

889
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 1: people are struggling with things like their sex drive and

890
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: their sexual connection with their partners, and porn is just

891
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,240
Speaker 1: the easy outlet. It's like, you want to have an orgasm,

892
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: you can go to the bathroom and have that in

893
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: a few minutes with pornography instead of having like a

894
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: slow intimate experience with your partner. Ultimately, for all of

895
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,879
Speaker 1: us as human beings in this modern world to feel

896
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: our happiest, anything that provides slow pleasure is the pursuit

897
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: that we should be on. We're in a society right

898
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 1: now where this is brand new, all this quick stuff,

899
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 1: and we really need to consider it, like, let's have

900
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: a conversation. Let's not judge one another for engaging with it,

901
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: but let's consider how we could enhance our relationship in

902
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: order to come away from that activity.

903
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have habits and systems to increase concentration and

904
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 2: deep focus by forty eight percent.

905
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, what are they? This is a really interesting area

906
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 3: of dopamine.

907
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: There's this brilliant scientist I love called gold that looked

908
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 1: into the relationship between dopamine and what we call flow state.

909
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: Flow state being when we get incredibly deeply immersed in

910
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: a task. Again with that hunter gatherer example, they live

911
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: their lives in flow state building. You get so into

912
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: deep flow state, making fire, hunting, foraging for food. Big

913
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: proportions of their day were spent deeply focused on one activity. Nowadays,

914
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: we're basically doing like five hundred activities a day. I

915
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,879
Speaker 1: even saw recent research shows that we have thirty five

916
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: thousand decisions that we're making a day now, comparably to

917
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: an estimate with them of about two and a half

918
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: thousand decisions a day. So we're just doing much more

919
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 1: different stuff than the things we did when we were

920
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: living our former lives. And when we look at increasing

921
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: someone's time span, fundamentally, all of the dopaminergic stuff is

922
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: going to impact it because you need an abundance of

923
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: doping in your brain in order to concentrate. So waking up,

924
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: not going on the phone, things like the big morning

925
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 1: routine of the cold water on your face and brushing

926
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: your teeth and making your bed. Then at least your

927
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: doping is coming into a good place. You then have

928
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: to sit down at your desk and think, how the

929
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: hell am I going to increase my attention span by

930
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: forty eight percent. Fundamentally, the phone cannot be anywhere near you.

931
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: It needs to be physically separate from you, So you

932
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 1: need to select the task. If your phone is required

933
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,399
Speaker 1: for your calendar or your tasks, whatever it may be,

934
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: one task has to be selected. Never select multiple at once,

935
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: because our brain simply cannot get into a deep state

936
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: of flow if we're in that kind of experience. We

937
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 1: then have this process of gamifying the experience of trying

938
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: to get into a deep state of concentration. We get

939
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: people on their computer, so once they've selected their task,

940
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: they've separated themselves from their phone. To click on a

941
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: new tab and just search the word stop Watch on

942
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,240
Speaker 1: Google and you'll see a Stopwatch appear. It's very important

943
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: to it by that, not with the phone. You then

944
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 1: go on the starfat once you're ready to start the task.

945
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: You click start, you begin the task, and very quickly

946
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: you find yourself beginning to feel bored or too difficult,

947
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: too challenged by the task itself. These are the two

948
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: things that take us out of flow, something being boring

949
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: and too easy effectively, or something being too difficult. In

950
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: the moment that you have that first experience arise, you

951
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: say to yourself the sentence I'm going to fight the

952
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: urg You repeat this as a mantra, I'm going to

953
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: fight the urge for the distraction effectively. You do that

954
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: as many times as you can, maybe you successfully do

955
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: at three, four or five times.

956
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 3: I'm going to fight the urge.

957
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: Eventually you find yourself irresistibly needing to go on YouTube

958
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: or needing to go on to Twitter or whatever it

959
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: might be. In that moment, you can do that, but

960
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: before you do it, you head back to the stopwatch

961
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 1: that you had on one of those tabs, and you.

962
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 3: Look at the number.

963
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: You look at the number, and the first time you

964
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: ever do it, it says six minutes and twenty seven seconds.

965
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: That's what we then call your baseline attention span. That's

966
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: how long you manage to push yourself for to stay

967
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 1: in a state of concentration. We know from recent research

968
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: that it takes about fifteen minutes for the brain to

969
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,439
Speaker 1: start to lock in, for the attention span to really

970
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,919
Speaker 1: start to zone into one place. Maybe you've got six

971
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: minutes the first time, the next time, you get twelve. Eventually,

972
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: once you get to fifteen, that's when your brain is

973
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: really locking in. It's staying centralized on one thing. What

974
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 1: we've then found is because it's very difficult to get

975
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: to fifteen minutes of only focusing on one task, when

976
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 1: you fight the urge, you give up and find the urge,

977
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: and you look at the stopwatch and you see it's

978
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 1: beyond fifteen minutes, you think, wow, I've actually managed to

979
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: climb here. I've actually managed to get to the number

980
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: that I was targeting. And then people have this elevated

981
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: motivation to maybe I should just stay in this. We're

982
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:33,240
Speaker 1: way more productive. We complete tasks forty percent less time

983
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: if we get into flow state, so it's extremely advantageous.

984
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: We go through that process, separate from the phone, select

985
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: the task, open the stopwatch on a new tab, target

986
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: the fifteen minute number, and if you can get beyond

987
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,439
Speaker 1: it into thirty forty five minutes, that's incredible for flow state,

988
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: incredible for dopamine.

989
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 2: That's so powerful. Man, that's such a great, great system.

990
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 2: I really hope people are going to try it out.

991
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 2: And I can honestly say that I saw myself over

992
00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 2: the last twelve months see my attention diminished. I've always

993
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 2: prided myself on having like really great attention, being able

994
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 2: to immerse myself deeply into things. And I found that

995
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 2: because I live quite a regiment to disciplined life, my

996
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 2: phone became what I did in every gap. Yeah, And

997
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 2: so because that was the only time I really had

998
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 2: for my phone, I could be in the studio like

999
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 2: this for four to six hours a day, and so

1000
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 2: every gap I could get grab my phone and fill

1001
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 2: in the gap. And sometimes I saw that gap actually

1002
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 2: being thirty minutes, and I used to think of it

1003
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 2: as a gap, and actually I was like, I used

1004
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 2: to think I couldn't be productive in those thirty minutes

1005
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 2: because I got so focused on my phone. But recently

1006
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 2: I've been leaving my phone out of the room, and

1007
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 2: those thirty minutes have been transformative. And so it's so

1008
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 2: easy to think, even as someone who I consider myself

1009
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,720
Speaker 2: to have very good concentration and focus and flow state.

1010
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 2: I found that just diminishing daily because it was so

1011
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 2: easy to get lost and everything else.

1012
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's so important to understand. Even if

1013
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: it wasn't productive, like doing work in that thirty minutes,

1014
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: it would arguably be prettyductive just to go and sit

1015
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: on the sofa and not go on your phone, or

1016
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 1: just to go and stand outside for a period of time,

1017
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: or to cool someone and talk to a human being.

1018
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: But the nuance of this is so important to understand

1019
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: because this is huge. Everyone basically completes one task on

1020
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 1: their list and then seeks for some kind of rewarding.

1021
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: It's like, now I've wroted my next opening hit on

1022
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: the phone, next task, next opening hit. And it's not

1023
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 1: even necessarily a whole task. Sometimes we do a little

1024
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 1: bit of a task and we think that's enough of

1025
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: this task done. Now I deserve my dope mein hit.

1026
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: And this is something I've struggled with massively. Like I

1027
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: grew up with no attention span, I really struggled with

1028
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: hyperactivity in school, really struggled for my whole life to

1029
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 1: get into states to focus. It was in the process

1030
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: of writing this book that I had to figure out

1031
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: how the hell do I concentrate for a prolonged period

1032
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: of time. And in those moments where I'm about to

1033
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: go onto the phone, I actually consider, like, what is

1034
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: the ultimate impact that's going to have on this task,

1035
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 1: Because as soon as you go on the phone through

1036
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 1: that dopmine lens, you're not just rewarding yourself for a

1037
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 1: little bit and going back to the task. You're spiking

1038
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 1: the dop mein crashing it out. Then you're trying to

1039
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:57,879
Speaker 1: come back to the task from a low dopamine state,

1040
00:44:57,920 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: which is then really hard to get back into that

1041
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: stuff concentration. Or maybe at the beginning of our working day,

1042
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: we sit down at our desk and we're thinking we

1043
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: really want to be productives there.

1044
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 3: I want to have a good day with my working life.

1045
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: And then we're like, okay, just before that, I'll just

1046
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: have like ten minutes of Instagram just before I start.

1047
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: But then we spike and crash it, and then we

1048
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: try and enter the state of concentration from low base side.

1049
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,879
Speaker 1: Don't mean and it's so difficult, but if we were

1050
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 1: to sit there, try and resist the phone, get into

1051
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 1: the state of focus, then go it's going to be

1052
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:22,959
Speaker 1: so much better.

1053
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, how can someone increase their sleep quality by fifty

1054
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 2: four percent?

1055
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 3: Sleep is a fascinating topic.

1056
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 1: It's one that our world has become very clear that

1057
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: it's extremely valuable to all aspects of our physical and

1058
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: mental health. I think it all starts with how your

1059
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 1: day begins. When we wake up in the morning, we

1060
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: need to see sunlight as quickly as we possibly can.

1061
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: You could imagine for our hunter gatherers, they probably saw

1062
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 1: sunlight pretty fast given they were sleeping outside. When we

1063
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: woke up in the morning, we get the sunlight. We

1064
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 1: then need to consider the amount of physical activity throughout

1065
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: our day. It's very important that our body physically requires

1066
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: sleep when we get into bed. Many of the people

1067
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: that go through our dose experience really struggle with quite

1068
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: set entry lifestyles, as many of us do today, like

1069
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: we spend our whole life seated. So I'd say sunlight,

1070
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 1: making sure you have some kind of physical activity that

1071
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 1: slightly exhausts your body throughout the day. Then I think

1072
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: it really comes down to your approach in the evening.

1073
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 1: It's very clear from a research point of view that

1074
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,879
Speaker 1: sugar really interrupts our quality and depth of sleep. If

1075
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: we're going to have sugar, I'd be moving the sugar

1076
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: earlier in the evening and if possible, towards a healthy

1077
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 1: form of sugar, fruit and honey and so on like

1078
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: that kind of sugar away from the modulage process type sugar.

1079
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 1: And then with the nuance of our phone in the evening,

1080
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 1: obviously that's the hyper stimulation the phone being charged by

1081
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: our bed, with the phone being utilized at night, when

1082
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: you're watching TV in the evening, I would consider that

1083
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: another period where you're phone fasting. So you're having this

1084
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: period of destimulating from your phone. Many of us struggle

1085
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: with work life balance or addiction to our phone, and

1086
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: a's largely cause because we just sit watching TV while

1087
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: scrolling our email and slack and so on. So in

1088
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: the evening, the TV becomes an environment where it's like, okay,

1089
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: this is a phone fasting experience, and that's why we

1090
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: called it phone fast, not technology fast. Watching TV is

1091
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: nowhere near as bad for our dopamine system as when

1092
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: we're scrolling the phone. After you watch TV for a bit,

1093
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 1: you're then going to want your next phone check before

1094
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: you go to bed, and you can have it.

1095
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 3: You can have a little bit of WhatsApp. You don't

1096
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:11,280
Speaker 3: go back into a scroll.

1097
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 1: It's very useful doing that phone check to be standing

1098
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: up instead of lying prone on your bed. Like if

1099
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: you're lying on your bed, you're entering the deep loop.

1100
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 1: If you have to like stand in the kitchen while

1101
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: you do your few messages and you check one notification

1102
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: or DM on Instagram, whatever it may be. If you're standing,

1103
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,959
Speaker 1: it then causes action to continue. You then make sure

1104
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 1: the phone doesn't charge by the bed, you get into

1105
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: the bed. If you can't go sleep with the choir,

1106
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: you opt towards podcasts and audio books and things like that.

1107
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: I would say that process is the most important factors.

1108
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so interesting to me how screen time has

1109
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 2: become like five screens where it's like you have your

1110
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 2: phone and your laptop out, your partner has their phone

1111
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 2: and their laptop out, and then you have a screen on.

1112
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 2: So you've got five screens in between you and you're

1113
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 2: staring and being distracted by three different types of media.

1114
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 2: And you're so right. I've been doing that too, with

1115
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 2: the phone fast outside of me, and rather they are

1116
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 2: watching a show together. I've been leaving my phone in the.

1117
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 3: Kitchen yeah, it's better if your relationship as well.

1118
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's better for everything. But I used to find

1119
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 2: myself doing that all the timmer on board of what

1120
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 2: I'm watching on TV. So I'm just going to scroll

1121
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 2: away and now she's watching the TV. And then brother's like, well, Jay,

1122
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 2: are you watching this with me? You know, are we

1123
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 2: doing it? And I'm like, oh yeah, And then she

1124
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 2: gets to start to on her phone. I'm like, oh,

1125
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 2: you're with me, and it becomes this really ridiculous thing

1126
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,280
Speaker 2: where you're both bored of what you're watching on TV.

1127
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 2: You're kind of, you know, scrolling to make up for it,

1128
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,720
Speaker 2: and now it's disrupting the relationship as well.

1129
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: This boredom thing is really important to consider because boredom

1130
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: is something our mind experienced in abundance for most of

1131
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: human history.

1132
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 3: We spend losers of our time board.

1133
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: Even if you think back to being a kid, like

1134
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 1: how much time did you sit around and say Mom,

1135
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: I'm bored? Like that was a big thing and now

1136
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 1: that's not a thing. People don't really experience boredom because

1137
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 1: we've got the tablets and we've got the phones to

1138
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: always stimulate us. We've discovered this thing called the boredom

1139
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: barrier effectively. And I'm someone that really struggles with this.

1140
00:48:58,000 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 1: So they said, like, I really struggle with that high peractive.

1141
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: See if I sit and do very little, it's like

1142
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: what can I do?

1143
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 3: What can I do?

1144
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: So I relate to the experience and when I try

1145
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 1: to start trying to see these phone fast in the

1146
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: evening and watch TV, like I'll put on a movie

1147
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: for example, and I think this used to entertain me,

1148
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: and this is so boring now this film. We were

1149
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 1: watching Gladiator the other day, great movie. I know Gladiator

1150
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: two is coming out, so I was like, okay, let's

1151
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: watch Gladiator one. And you're sitting there and you're thinking, wow,

1152
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: this is pretty boring watching this experience. The important thing

1153
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: to understand is we see a boreding barrier about twelve

1154
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,280
Speaker 1: to fifteen minutes of being bored. So for that first period,

1155
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 1: you're going to have your brain and body literally physically

1156
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: fighting to try and recover that experience of stimulation. So

1157
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: it's trying to get it to get up and go

1158
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 1: to the fridge and get the sugar. It's trying to

1159
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:40,760
Speaker 1: get you to get the phone and open the social media.

1160
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:42,959
Speaker 1: It's trying to seek to get back to that state

1161
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 1: that it was in of highly elevated dope mein. If

1162
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: after about twelve to fifteen minutes, the brain begins to discover, Okay,

1163
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: the dope mean is not coming back. I'm going to

1164
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: have to stay in this state. The brain and body

1165
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 1: will settle, the heart rate will slow, that desire for

1166
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: stimulation will occur, will reduce, and in that moment will

1167
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: then begin to find like a more peaceful state in

1168
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: our body. And we think it feels peaceful scrolling our phone,

1169
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 1: but really it's just numbing our dopin receptors. That feels

1170
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 1: like it's peaceful, but that is not restorative. That is

1171
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,760
Speaker 1: not the actual rest our brain and body is needing.

1172
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: The one thing I'd add to this is if you

1173
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 1: try and phone fast and watch TV, it's very important

1174
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:19,720
Speaker 1: that other people do it, like you were saying with RADI,

1175
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,320
Speaker 1: because there's this fascinating area of dope mein called anticipatory

1176
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: dope mein, which basically means that our dove mein will

1177
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,879
Speaker 1: rise simply at the thought of accessing dopemin. That's why,

1178
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,479
Speaker 1: for example, if you like drinking alcohol and you walk

1179
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 1: past the bar and you see some people having some

1180
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: like glass of wine in the sun. You're standing at

1181
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 1: this massive urge of I want a glass of wine.

1182
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: I want a glass of wine. Your dope mein has

1183
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: risen just at the thought of having it. The same

1184
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 1: thing is happening with the phones. Like you're sitting at

1185
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: dinner with your partner or your kids. One person gets

1186
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,879
Speaker 1: their phone out and immediately the entire table have them

1187
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: out and they's simply because everyone's brain has experienced this

1188
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: anticipatory dope mean which has then driven us into action

1189
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: towards the dope meine that they were receiving. So if

1190
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 1: your phone fasting is a family and with your partner,

1191
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: it has to be a group commitment.

1192
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the group commitment, I guess makes it much

1193
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 2: more collaborative and effective because there's a feeling of like

1194
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 2: we're kind of trying to do this together. It's a

1195
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 2: common commitment. I think that accountability is really important too.

1196
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 2: I'm intrigued and if you're comfortable to share, like, how

1197
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 2: do you keep each other accountable without making each other

1198
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 2: feel bad? Because I feel like that's a really important

1199
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 2: thing for me and Rady like, and I think that's

1200
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,280
Speaker 2: one of the reasons why I think me and Rady

1201
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 2: have been able to be together for as long as

1202
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 2: we have, and why I feel happy in my relationship

1203
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 2: is because Raddy's never judged me and made me feel

1204
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 2: bad for even my bad habits, but slowly coached me

1205
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 2: and nudged me out of them, which I'm so grateful

1206
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 2: for because I think if I would have had someone

1207
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 2: who would have judged me and kind of pointed fingers,

1208
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 2: I think I would have my ego probably would have

1209
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 2: like defended myself and not been comfortable with that. But

1210
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 2: this approach that she's taken, which she comes to her

1211
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 2: quite naturally, I feel like has helped me kind of

1212
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 2: become better in so many ways.

1213
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:57,839
Speaker 1: I think, as you've shared there, the way in which

1214
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: it's communicated is very important. If it's an attack type

1215
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,879
Speaker 1: communication of put your phone out, why you on your phone?

1216
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 3: Watch the TV.

1217
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: If it's that attack type energy, it's only going to

1218
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 1: create like cord style stress rise within that person, and

1219
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 1: then they're going to feel more of a desire to

1220
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: resist the guidance that's coming their way. So I think

1221
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: that's a component gentle, nice, loving communication. The other aspect

1222
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 1: of this is utilizing this dose language effectively. We have

1223
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: loads of parents that join our dose process, and it's

1224
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 1: really interesting. A lot of them are trying to help

1225
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: their really young kids understand these frameworks. They've got like

1226
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 1: eight year old kids or ten year old kids or

1227
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: twelve year old kids. They're trying to get them to

1228
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: reduce their like scrolling on the tablets or the phones

1229
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: or whatever it may be. And I get so many

1230
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: messages on Instagram saying my eight year old kid now says, Mommy,

1231
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: put your phone down. It's screwing up your dopamine. And

1232
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,439
Speaker 1: using the language of dopamine and dose instead of having

1233
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: other words is actually really useful because it's not like

1234
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 1: a judgmental place. It's just you've got a brain chemical

1235
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: and this is something that's negative for it. So utilizing

1236
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: that as a communication framework, maybe sharing this podcast with

1237
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 1: them so they can understand it as well, would be

1238
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: a good process.

1239
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk a bit about oxytocin and serotonin. Which

1240
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 2: one do you want to go?

1241
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 3: For?

1242
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,839
Speaker 1: Oxytocin? Okay, way, because you're mister oxytocin. Okay, go and

1243
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 1: tell us your pursuit of life over the last ten

1244
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 1: years has been oxytocin and not dopamine. Ultimately, it's led

1245
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: you to have great dopaminergic, pleasurable, successful experiences. But your

1246
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: pursuit of life has been service to humanity. And when

1247
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: you look into oxytocin, oxytocin increases whenever we make some

1248
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 1: kind of contribution to the world. There's this brilliant scientist

1249
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: called marsh who really looked into this. It's alongside a

1250
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: lady called Algo, and they've basically found that any time

1251
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: in which we do something kind for another human being,

1252
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,800
Speaker 1: whether that's through physical touch, acts of service, grateful thoughts,

1253
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,320
Speaker 1: celebrating someone's progress, anything that's kind for other human beings

1254
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: drives this chemical. And it's really clear that we as

1255
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 1: a society have become dopamine driven and less in the

1256
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: pursuit of oxytocin. I deeply believe that for much of

1257
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 1: our ancestors' lives, oxytocin was the dominant desire within us.

1258
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 1: How do our group survive and thrive and stay connected.

1259
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: I think we've moved towards a more pleasure dominant society

1260
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 1: that's dot mein driven and a little bit more so focused.

1261
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 1: When you get more into that lane of in, I'm

1262
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: living my life to serve. I'm living my life to

1263
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 1: build oxytocin. You have a much more fulfilling and happy experience.

1264
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And what's the enemy of oxytocin, Like, what's holding

1265
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 2: it back?

1266
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: It's interesting because dop mean is the only one we've

1267
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 1: managed to discover how to hijack effectively. We can't rapidly,

1268
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: in a kind of fake way, increase the oxytocin or

1269
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: the serotonin or the endorphins. Ultimately, when we look into

1270
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: the research, it's not that something can rapidly increase it

1271
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: and crash it out, but it's that someone might have

1272
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 1: a low level of oxydocin production through things like a

1273
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 1: lack of social connection in social moments, always having phones

1274
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 1: that are disrupting the quality of the connection. Things like

1275
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: how we connect with ourself in the conversation with we

1276
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 1: have with ourself is a factor here. Things like criticizing

1277
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: our appearance and being unkind to ourself is a big factor.

1278
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: So if you look down that lane of lack of

1279
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: human connection or disconnection from yourself, that's reducing the production. Yeah,

1280
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 1: and so that's how we can sense it as well,

1281
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 1: right for sure, Like if you're finding you have a

1282
00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 1: very critical voice in your mind.

1283
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 3: That's very hard on yourself.

1284
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 1: It's really important to understand that that's an oxytocin relationship

1285
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: happening there. You don't have necessarily a lot of love

1286
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: for yourself going through your brain. Just like with a dopamain,

1287
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 1: I would have no judgment for yourself. If that's the case.

1288
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: We live in a world now it's mass comparison. We've

1289
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 1: got the mirrors, we've got the selfies, we've all got

1290
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 1: social media profiles where we're trying to create what we

1291
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 1: look like, dating profiles that need to be amazing in

1292
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: order to get a match. Like it's very hard to

1293
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:26,359
Speaker 1: not really really care for your appearance, but going down

1294
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: that lane of constant judgment is really challenging for this chemical.

1295
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 2: Yeah so yeah, and I find that that kind of

1296
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 2: bleeds into all of our relationships as well. We see gossip,

1297
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 2: unhealthy competitiveness, comparison. You're seeing that idea of not being

1298
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 2: we've talked about this before, not being able to be

1299
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 2: happy for other people's success, not being able to acknowledge

1300
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 2: someone that you even may believe that you like or

1301
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 2: love and being able to be happy for them, and

1302
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:56,280
Speaker 2: you know, reveling that success and so, and it almost

1303
00:55:56,320 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 2: feels like we find friends who kind of cement that

1304
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 2: negativity bias or that gossip bias, and so we'll find

1305
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 2: a bunch of people who also dislike something or some interest,

1306
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 2: and we kind of feel closer to people when we

1307
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 2: do that. It's that weird balance where it's like you're

1308
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 2: becoming closer to people by all hating on the same person.

1309
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 3: That's definitely how our world is working.

1310
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so what are some of the antidotes to

1311
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 2: getting away from that and how does that affect the oxytocin.

1312
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: Right at the beginning, the gratitude piece is so fundamental,

1313
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: and I think our world is very aware now that

1314
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: we need grateful thinking. The comparison and the negative thinking

1315
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 1: is largely fueled by what do I not have? Effectively,

1316
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 1: and gratitude is very simply the reminder to your brain

1317
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,280
Speaker 1: of what you do have. And whilst I think society

1318
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: is very aware it's important and people have grass Jude

1319
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 1: channels and all kinds of things, I think still a

1320
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,839
Speaker 1: huge percentage definitely in the research that we're doing don't

1321
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: actually have like a consistent daily practice whereby they're asking

1322
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 1: themselves what they're grateful for and then most importantly, why

1323
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 1: they're grateful for that action or activity or experience that

1324
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 1: they have within their life life. And adding to that

1325
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 1: morning routine, we eventually try and get all these chemicals

1326
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: in so someone goes through that dopaminergic process of getting

1327
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 1: that into balance. When they step outside, we get someone

1328
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 1: to find a bench that they will typically walk past

1329
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 1: on a frequent basis. Whenever you habit, stack or pair

1330
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 1: environmental cues with a habit, it makes it stronger and

1331
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: we get them to always sit down on the bench.

1332
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 1: We then get them to have a grateful thought and

1333
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 1: ask themselves why they actually feel grateful for that thing.

1334
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: Frequency of gratitude is the most important factor. Just once

1335
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: a week thinking oh, yeah, I'm kind of grateful I've

1336
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 1: got my house. It's great for your mind. But to

1337
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: really get the oxytocin production, we need it to be

1338
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 1: frequently occurring, and that's going to reduce our mind constantly

1339
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: focusing on others and move yourself into that state of Okay,

1340
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 1: I do actually have quite a lot in my life

1341
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: as well.

1342
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think gratitudes underrated. And sure we talked about

1343
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 2: like you're saying like it's like you hear it everywhere,

1344
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 2: you see it everywhere. But I love that you said that.

1345
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 2: If you actually look at the research of how many

1346
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: people are doing it on a daily basis, it's very few.

1347
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: Because it's not like something like super sexy, Oh my god,

1348
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 1: cold showers booshed over mean by this percentage, it's not

1349
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: got that same thing. But in terms of the effectiveness

1350
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: on your experience in your life and your mental health,

1351
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: it's so right at the core of exactly what our

1352
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 1: brain needs. We help a lot of people with overthinking.

1353
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: Overthinking is just like a massive challenge in our world

1354
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: where our brain rapidly spirals into negative scenarios. You hear

1355
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: a piece of news about your family, or your work,

1356
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 1: or your health, and our brain goes so quickly into

1357
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: worst case scenario. It's very clear that in an overthinking state,

1358
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 1: gratitude is such a powerful practice to start settling the

1359
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 1: mind back down, because in the overthinking, it's like fear, fear,

1360
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 1: what's not going right, what's not going right? Gratitude is

1361
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 1: this safety, safety, Okay, I have some things. I'm okay,

1362
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: I have some kind of stable foundation to build on.

1363
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 1: Such a powerful antidote to so much of the pain

1364
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: we have now.

1365
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you brought up overthinking, because I do.

1366
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 2: You're right, that's a lot of people are struggling with

1367
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 2: procrastination and overthinking. What do you see is the difference

1368
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 2: between procrastination and overthinking and how should people think about

1369
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 2: them differently?

1370
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: Procrastination is largely spent on the phone. People aren't often

1371
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: procrastinating while sitting doing nothing, like if you were to

1372
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: sit on the sofa. I doubt that's often the state

1373
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 1: people in when they're procrastinating. I imagine they're more likely

1374
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: scrolling their phone. So I would see procrastination more as

1375
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 1: a dopaminergic challenge, whereas I would see the overthinking more

1376
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 1: as a conversation that's happening in your mind a little

1377
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 1: bit of oxytocin, and then also something that's happening with serotonin.

1378
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 1: Serotonin really inconnects with the state of our body and

1379
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 1: our nervous system, and I think when we're in an

1380
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: overthinking type state, our body is actually getting into fear

1381
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: and over arousal, whereas procrastination would be kind of under

1382
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: arousal and lack of action. So I'd see it's quite

1383
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 1: different things.

1384
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 2: To be honest, yeah, yeah, nood, It's good to know

1385
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 2: that difference, because I don't know. I just feel like

1386
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 2: there's just a sense that the critical voice we talked

1387
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 2: about earlier, the overthinking of a scenario, focusing on what's

1388
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 2: the worst that could happen, Yeah, focusing on nightmare scenarios.

1389
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 2: That all takes away action. It takes away accountability, it

1390
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 2: takes away respons ability, it takes away any sort of

1391
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 2: feeling like I can change, I can do something. How

1392
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 2: do we switch from that powerless feeling of I can't

1393
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 2: do anything about this too? This is what I can

1394
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 2: focus on. I mean, I feel like I'm sure you

1395
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 2: do this. I talk to friends all the time, and

1396
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 2: I find everyone I talk to and I try and

1397
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 2: coach myself out of this. But everyone I talk to

1398
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 2: is constantly focused on what they can't control. And it

1399
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 2: seems to be like the most common thing, Like everyone

1400
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 2: will list out a list of reasons that they can't

1401
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:31,479
Speaker 2: do something or something won't happen, But rarely is someone saying, hey,

1402
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 2: I've got ten strategies here, the ten things I'm working

1403
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 2: on right now. You know, this is what I'm focused on.

1404
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 2: How do we shift from what we can't do to

1405
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 2: what we can do.

1406
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: I think it's natural for the mind to focus on

1407
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 1: what isn't going to plan Like evolutionarily, it's very useful

1408
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 1: for it to consider, Okay, the hut isn't built well enough,

1409
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 1: or our food system isn't going to provide well enough,

1410
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 1: so our brain will naturally orient towards the negative. I

1411
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 1: think in these states of paralysis of I can't get

1412
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 1: myself to take action and I'm fearing, and I'm in

1413
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 1: a state of all the worries of what I can't control. Ultimately,

1414
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 1: we need to separate ourselves from the modern world for

1415
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 1: a little period of time and spend some time with ourselves.

1416
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 1: And this is where and we really push this within

1417
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: those but periods of time on your own in nature

1418
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 1: are very, very, very important and very underestimated. People know, oh, yeah,

1419
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 1: nature's good, like your nature would make it feel good

1420
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 1: you see in COVID like apparently walks a good for

1421
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 1: your mental health. But we're really missing the trick on

1422
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 1: how important this actually is. If you're in a real

1423
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 1: state of I'm worrying a lot, I'm in a real

1424
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 1: I'm in constantly thinking about what I can't control. I'm

1425
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 1: in fear I'm not taking action on what the goal is.

1426
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 1: The best thing you could do would be throw the

1427
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: phone away from you, because I imagine it might be

1428
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 1: in your hand during that moment. At least that's what

1429
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 1: we see. Throw the phone away from you, count yourself

1430
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 1: down from five seconds. Once you've counted yourself down, you

1431
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:47,480
Speaker 1: go and put your trainers on, and you leave the

1432
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 1: house without your phone in your hand. If you have

1433
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: to bring the phone from a safety perspective, in the

1434
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,440
Speaker 1: bag airplane mode, so that you've got physical separation and

1435
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 1: for a period of time out there in the quiet

1436
01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:59,959
Speaker 1: ultimately if possible in nature, but maybe it's walking around

1437
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 1: your local town, if it's a little bit further to

1438
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: get to you just have a really honest conversation with yourself.

1439
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 1: And when you say people having all these negative thoughts,

1440
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 1: like judging themselves and stuff, some of these thoughts and

1441
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 1: messages we do need to hear.

1442
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:12,640
Speaker 3: Like if your mind.

1443
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 1: Saying, oh, stop scroll on your phone so much, stop

1444
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 1: getting so drunk on the weekend, stop being sugar. That

1445
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 1: is really clever that it's doing that. Like there's a

1446
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 1: component of maybe I need to be grass to you.

1447
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 1: Maybe it needs to be more grateful for the way

1448
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: my brain is so sophisticated and operating in a way

1449
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 1: of guidance. If it's focusing on other things, it's just

1450
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 1: like this state of let's listen to these thoughts. Let's

1451
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 1: not constantly distract myself from the thoughts. Let's hear the

1452
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: message I'm trying to be sent. And then once I've

1453
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 1: heard it, let's try and let's try and calculate some

1454
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 1: kind of smart response to this rather than this constant distraction.

1455
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 2: And what about if people are getting close to like

1456
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 2: high stress and burnout.

1457
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 3: I think that's the other end.

1458
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's happening a lot in the workplace now right

1459
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 2: Like there's a overworking, crazy hours, always on, always connected.

1460
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 2: We've talked about that, that pressure of like what if

1461
01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 2: my boss emails me at midnight? What if an email

1462
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 2: comes to th at six am and I just got up,

1463
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 2: you know whatever it is, there's this high performance mixed

1464
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 2: with high stress, high burnout environment.

1465
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 1: This is where I come to that idea if we've

1466
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 1: become a dopamine driven society rather than an oxytocin driven society.

1467
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: Oxytocin being this love hormone. Love is the most beautiful

1468
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 1: experience a human can have. Nothing is as pleasurable and

1469
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 1: as enjoyable as the experience of love with your partner,

1470
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 1: your parents, having a child, whatever it may be. That's

1471
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 1: ultimately what humanity is here to connect with the experience

1472
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: of bonding with humans. When you're in that world of burnout,

1473
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 1: it's very likely that you've become slightly overly focused on dopamine.

1474
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 1: Whether that's in the pursuit of pleasure through burning out,

1475
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 1: through partying and having fun, or if it's from a

1476
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 1: work perspective, you've probably got a little bit too focused

1477
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 1: on your financial win and your career progression.

1478
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 3: And so on.

1479
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 1: That's then leading you towards dopamine burnout effectively, which many

1480
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 1: of us experience with that in mind. And I experienced

1481
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 1: this myself, like like you, like I have a striving

1482
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 1: desire within my career to make progress and help and

1483
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 1: so on. I really, in your mind would be asking

1484
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:03,920
Speaker 1: yourself how much oxytocin am I getting? And is it

1485
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 1: balancing out the dope mean? And with that that means

1486
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 1: how good is the connection that I'm experiencing in my

1487
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 1: life right now? Am I making time to FaceTime and

1488
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 1: call my mum and dad and ask how their lives

1489
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 1: are going, and sit for a whole conversation and just

1490
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: ask questions and not say loads about you and what's

1491
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 1: going on in your life and how amazing you are

1492
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 1: in your career, but just simply ask them how are

1493
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 1: you doing? That might be connecting with your children more,

1494
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 1: your partner more, But fundamentally, you see that if we

1495
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: get more oxytocin, it moves our mind towards that close

1496
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 1: connection that a human so deeply needs. And currently we're

1497
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 1: all in dope mean dating apps, dms, all that world.

1498
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 1: We need to move towards more intimate connection with the

1499
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 1: people that are really close to us, our family and

1500
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 1: our friends and our kids and our partners.

1501
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 2: What do you think that's actually going to take to do? Like,

1502
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 2: when you really think about that, it feels like we're

1503
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 2: so far gone from that. Now, what's that actually going

1504
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 2: to take for us to really value connection for what

1505
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:55,919
Speaker 2: we know it can do.

1506
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: I think ultimately society needs a massive shift on the phone.

1507
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 1: I think people really need to start reconsidering this phone.

1508
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 1: I think when you look at the quality of the

1509
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 1: connection you have with your family, you go around to

1510
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:08,439
Speaker 1: your parents' house to see them or you go see

1511
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 1: your friends. And if you really start observing from the

1512
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 1: moment you've listened to this podcast, how much is that

1513
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 1: phone actually disrupting the experience I have with these people

1514
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 1: that I love. It's very significant, and I think families

1515
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 1: and partners and kids need to adopt the mentality of

1516
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 1: considering this is phone free time I walk through my parents' door.

1517
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 1: I actually now have found that I have to leave

1518
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 1: my phone at home when I go to my parents' house,

1519
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 1: simply because I'll talk to them for a bit and

1520
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 1: then I'll be going to the bathroom and it's like

1521
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 1: phone now, okay, Instagram.

1522
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 3: Email, what's happened.

1523
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 1: Then my mind leaves oxytocin and returns to dopamine desire.

1524
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 1: It's so important to have these prolonged dopamine detoxes where

1525
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 1: oxytocin is the primary goal and the phone is the

1526
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:48,440
Speaker 1: primary thing disrupting that. If we can start becoming comfortable

1527
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 1: with the idea of wow, I'm going to spend two

1528
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 1: hours off my phone. I'm going to spend an hour

1529
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 1: off my phone, and my only goal is going to

1530
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 1: be to listen to these people, to look them in

1531
01:05:57,240 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 1: the eye, to ask them good questions and to give

1532
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 1: them love. I think that fundamentally is going to shift

1533
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 1: the way society operates.

1534
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 2: TJ. I love that you've been amazing talking today, and

1535
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 2: I'm glad that people are going to read the dose

1536
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:13,360
Speaker 2: effect to dive into more on dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, and endorphins.

1537
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 2: We only touch the tip of the iceberg today, but

1538
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:19,560
Speaker 2: we learn so much. I feel like I've gained so

1539
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 2: much great self talk material from listening to you, and

1540
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:26,040
Speaker 2: I think that's what I really value, and I think

1541
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 2: we undervalue about when you're listening to a podcast, when

1542
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 2: you're reading a book, the goal is to get so

1543
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:34,960
Speaker 2: much more of a new script in your mind as

1544
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 2: to how you talk to yourself about the challenges you have,

1545
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 2: how you talk to others about the challenges you have,

1546
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 2: and then how you talk yourself out of making bad

1547
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 2: decisions and into good decisions. And as I've been listening

1548
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 2: to you, I feel like you're such a hub of

1549
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:52,439
Speaker 2: incredible insights and information and so well researched where I'm like, oh,

1550
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 2: now I'm going to hear TJ's voice in my head.

1551
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 2: Remind me of that when I'm brushing my teeth and

1552
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 2: I got my phone out, or you know, when I'm

1553
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 2: about to go to bed, and even the idea of

1554
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 2: standing up before I lie down, or there's so many

1555
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,200
Speaker 2: things you've said today where I'm like, I think there's

1556
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:09,040
Speaker 2: just these mini shifts and nudges that hopefully will save

1557
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 2: me and everyone who's been listening a lot of stress

1558
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 2: and a lot of trouble. Is there anything I haven't

1559
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 2: asked you that you wanted to share, or something that's

1560
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 2: on your heart or mind that you really want to

1561
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 2: share with my community.

1562
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 1: I would love everyone, after listening to this podcast to

1563
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:26,280
Speaker 1: plan in the next seven days to spend sixty minutes

1564
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:30,000
Speaker 1: in nature without their phone, considering what their primary pursuit

1565
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 1: is in their life right now. It can be a

1566
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 1: bit uncomfortable when you go into the choiet. Remember that

1567
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 1: idea of the bard and barrier. Your brain will settle,

1568
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:38,920
Speaker 1: it will come Worries might come into your mind at

1569
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 1: the beginning of that walk, But I promise you by

1570
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 1: the end of that sixty minutes, you're going to be

1571
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:46,520
Speaker 1: incredibly clear as to what you're truly seeking for in

1572
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 1: your life. Maybe the phone is impacting you. Maybe you

1573
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 1: want a stronger relationship with your partner. Maybe you think

1574
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 1: porn could be a factor in my life today. Maybe

1575
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:55,960
Speaker 1: your work needs to be a greater priority in your life.

1576
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:59,200
Speaker 1: But we need as a society long periods of time

1577
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 1: in nature without our phones.

1578
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 2: I love that challenge, and everyone who's going to do

1579
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 2: that challenge tag me and TJ when you're out in

1580
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 2: nature so we can see pictures of you on walks, hikes,

1581
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 2: taking your dog out, whatever it may be. We want

1582
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 2: to see the amount of time you're spending in nature.

1583
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 2: And if you get to sixty minutes, tag us and

1584
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 2: tell us the time as well. Let's go be amazing

1585
01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 2: to see TJ. We end every episode of On Purpose

1586
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 2: with the final five. These questions have to be answered

1587
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 2: in one word to one sentence maximum. Okay, so TJ Power,

1588
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 2: these are your final five. Question One, what is the

1589
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:29,920
Speaker 2: best advice you've ever heard or received?

1590
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:32,600
Speaker 1: To take action as soon as you wake up? I

1591
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:34,920
Speaker 1: received this guidance from a number of people in my life.

1592
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 1: I realized that waking up and scrolling my phone was

1593
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 1: the worst thing in my experience. Take action as soon

1594
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 1: as you wake great advice.

1595
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:45,480
Speaker 2: Second question, what's the worst advice you've ever heard or received.

1596
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 1: That it's fine to constantly drink tons of alcohol and

1597
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:50,280
Speaker 1: that to be like a normalized aspect of society, and

1598
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 1: that that isn't negatively impacting you.

1599
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 2: Expand on that for me as to why that really

1600
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:57,519
Speaker 2: helped you and why that was a path you decided

1601
01:08:57,520 --> 01:08:57,800
Speaker 2: to take.

1602
01:08:57,960 --> 01:08:59,680
Speaker 1: I just grew up in a world where alcohol was

1603
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:01,679
Speaker 1: just the most normal thing. It was, let's get drunk

1604
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:05,560
Speaker 1: three four days a week, and it was so strongly

1605
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 1: like disrupting my experience of happiness, my capacity to pursue

1606
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:11,760
Speaker 1: my goals. And because it's so normalized, I just think

1607
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 1: it's something that society is just so deeply immersed in.

1608
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 3: I don't have judgment for it. Like alcohol is a

1609
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 3: big thing.

1610
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 1: It's very pleasurable, but I think so many of us

1611
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:22,439
Speaker 1: are under estimating what it's doing. I literally had to

1612
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 1: leave all my friends in London, move into a very

1613
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 1: lonely life for like three years before I met my partner,

1614
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 1: just to separate myself simply from alcohol, because I think

1615
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:33,920
Speaker 1: people are underestimating what it's doing to their capacity to

1616
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:34,759
Speaker 1: get to their dreams.

1617
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:38,680
Speaker 2: How do you think it was affecting motivation, discipline, capacity?

1618
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 2: What was it doing well?

1619
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:43,640
Speaker 1: I was drinking while still understanding dose, and we of

1620
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:46,639
Speaker 1: course get the physical hangover experience. Well I've got headache

1621
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:48,760
Speaker 1: and I feel sick or whatever it might be. But

1622
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 1: we so deeply underestimate that it takes about seventy two

1623
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:54,679
Speaker 1: hours for that alcohol to fully leave your system. Throughout

1624
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: that seventy two hours, alcohol then drops very significantly. And

1625
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:00,280
Speaker 1: in that period on the Monday and Tuesday, in this

1626
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:03,679
Speaker 1: very low dope mein state, we get into that low motivation.

1627
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:06,680
Speaker 1: We overthink loads, we feel fearful, and we can't take

1628
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:09,599
Speaker 1: action on our goals. And I was someone that had goals,

1629
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:11,600
Speaker 1: like I had things I wanted to achieve. I was

1630
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 1: beginning to build dough, I was beginning to build the

1631
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:15,599
Speaker 1: research lab, and I was thinking, how the hell am

1632
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:17,400
Speaker 1: I going to live a life that I'm really happy

1633
01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:18,959
Speaker 1: with if alcohol remains.

1634
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 2: I love that. Thanks for sharing that question Number three.

1635
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 2: What's something you're trying to value less?

1636
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:28,599
Speaker 1: Maybe social media following, And that's really hard because it's

1637
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:31,160
Speaker 1: like a double edged sword where it's so beautiful to

1638
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:33,960
Speaker 1: know more people are hearing the message. But there's a

1639
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 1: really nuanced perspective of am I seeking for? Like the

1640
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 1: dopamine of the progress and the more followers, or am

1641
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:42,719
Speaker 1: I seeking for the oxytocin of this is serving people,

1642
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:45,200
Speaker 1: And I really am constantly trying to consider when I'm

1643
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,679
Speaker 1: looking at likes and views and followers, am I chasing

1644
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 1: dopamine here? Or am I chasing service in oxytocin? And

1645
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 1: it's very easy to get into the dopamain. So I'm

1646
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 1: trying to move my mind on that.

1647
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 2: Nice question number four, What's something you're trying to value?

1648
01:10:57,040 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 1: More intimate time with my partner where we really make

1649
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:03,720
Speaker 1: sure there's no computers and phones. We work in the

1650
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:06,920
Speaker 1: same world. My partner's are nutritionist. I'm a neuroscientist. So

1651
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:09,880
Speaker 1: it's this difficult interplay of us constantly wanting to work,

1652
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:12,680
Speaker 1: and it's very important we have times where we adjusting.

1653
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:15,240
Speaker 3: TJ and Georgia land and not in the land of dose.

1654
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 2: Fifth and final question, which we asked every guest has

1655
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 2: ever been on the show. If you could create one

1656
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:23,960
Speaker 2: law that everyone had to follow, what would it be.

1657
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 1: That the entirety of humanity would spend sixty minutes on

1658
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 1: their own in nature every single day without their phones.

1659
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 2: I love that, TJ. You've been incredible with the books

1660
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 2: called The Dose Effect. I hope you go and grab

1661
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:41,960
Speaker 2: your copy Small Habits to Boost your Brain Chemistry highly

1662
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 2: highly recommend this book. And TJ, how else would you

1663
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:47,240
Speaker 2: like people to connect with your work? You kept referring to

1664
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:49,240
Speaker 2: the dose app there as well in the research you're doing.

1665
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:51,240
Speaker 2: How can people connect more deeply with that?

1666
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:53,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, so if you go to the Doose lab dot

1667
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:56,479
Speaker 1: com on Google, that begins your opportunity to start your

1668
01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 1: journey with dose. And if you go to at Tjpower

1669
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 1: on Instagram or my guidance is on there, I love it.

1670
01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:04,760
Speaker 2: TJ. Thank you so much for joining today. I can't

1671
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:06,759
Speaker 2: wait for people to share this episode with their friends,

1672
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:09,719
Speaker 2: their family. We covered so many different themes and topics,

1673
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 2: and I want to thank you for your personal vulnerability

1674
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:13,880
Speaker 2: in so many of those topics as well. I think

1675
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:16,679
Speaker 2: takes a lot of courage to be someone who's sharing

1676
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:19,840
Speaker 2: so many great insights and share personal challenges, and I

1677
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:21,559
Speaker 2: think you beautifully shared both.

1678
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:23,600
Speaker 3: So thank you so much, man, Thank you for having me.

1679
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:24,280
Speaker 3: He's magical.

1680
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:27,680
Speaker 2: Appreciate you. If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my

1681
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 2: interview with doctor Daniel Aman on how to change your

1682
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:35,639
Speaker 2: life by changing your brain. If we want a healthy mind.

1683
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:39,599
Speaker 2: It actually starts with a healthy brain. You know. I've

1684
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 2: had the blessing or the curse to scam over a

1685
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:46,400
Speaker 2: thousand convicted felons and over.

1686
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:48,559
Speaker 3: One hundred murderers, and their brands

1687
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 1: Are very damage