WEBVTT - #328 Jason Flom with Keith Cooper 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:05.760 On October twenty ninth, nineteen ninety six, Elkhart, Indiana police 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:08.319 were called to the apartment of a Michael Kirshner and 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:12.520 his mother known a Canal. Allegedly, while they and four 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:15.720 friends were watching a movie, two men forced their way in, 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:20.079 demanding money and drugs. After the taller of the pair 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:23.120 allegedly shot at his friends and missed. A struggle between 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:26.000 Michael Kerscher and the shooter resulted in a non fatal 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:30.040 gunshot wound to Michael's abdomen. The gunman's hat fell off 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:34.360 during the struggle, and the two assailants fled. The police 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.599 collected no evidence from the scene, but took statements from 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:40.720 the witnesses and victims, who described the shooter as tall 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.240 and skinny carrying a long silver gun, and the other 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:48.720 man as short and stocky with no weapon. Two days later, 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.960 one of the witnesses, Eddie Love, allegedly identified a short 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:55.480 and stocky man named Chris Parrish. About three months later, 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.160 a suspected persnatcher named Keith Cooper was identified as the 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:02.920 taller shooter from a photo lineup. Even though the jury 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:05.640 was presented with DNA results from the sweatbed of the 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:11.200 shooter's hat that were allegedly inconclusive. The identifications appeared conclusive 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:16.240 enough to separately convict both matt But this is wronful conviction. 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:23.880 We're going to take a quick break and we'll be 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:27.760 right back. The Pacers Foundation is a proud supporter of 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.280 this episode of Wrawful Conviction and of the Last Mile organization, 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:35.000 which provides business and tech training to help incarcerated individuals 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:39.080 successfully and permanently re enter the workforce. The Pacers Foundation 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.360 is committed to improving the lives of hoosiers across Indiana, 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:46.279 supporting organizations that are dedicated primarily to helping young people 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:49.000 and students. For more information on the work of the 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:53.160 Pacers Foundation or the Last Mile program, visit Pacersfoundation dot 0:01:53.240 --> 0:02:05.480 org or the Lastmile dot org. Welcome back to Raeful Conviction. Today, 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:07.520 we're going to tell the story of a man who 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:11.280 was wrongfully convicted in a place that, well, with what 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:15.079 has been uncovered there already, in such a small population, 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:19.399 it just might be the per capital wrongful conviction capital 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:23.639 of this country and therefore the world a dubious distinction. 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:29.120 And I'm talking about Elkhart, Indiana. But first let's introduce 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.160 the man himself, Keith Cooper. I mean, I'm sorry you're 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:34.600 here because of the reason why you're here and what 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.600 you had to go through, but I'm really happy and 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:38.959 honor that you're here with us today. 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:40.360 I'm glad to be here. 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.400 And with him is his civil attorney and our resident 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.000 Elkhart expert, who you might remember from our coverage of 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.160 Andy Royer's case, which we're going to have linked in 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.520 the bio. This man is an adjunct professor at Notre 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.079 Dame Law, a staff attorney at the Exoneration Clinic out 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:56.400 of the University of Chicago, and a partner at the 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:59.760 nationally recognized civil rights law firm Lovy and Loby, where 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.679 he was an investigator before he even passed the bar. 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.960 That's some that's some impressive resume, and we're honored to 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:09.639 have you here with us again. 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.600 Elly is Low Sarry, thanks Jason, thanks so much for 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:13.200 having us on. 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.720 Now, Keith, you didn't always live in card Indiana. You 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:18.680 weren't born and raised there, right, You started off on 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:20.480 the South side of Chicago, So tell us a little 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:21.079 bit about that. 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.480 I grew up in a single family hall. My mother 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.600 was raising three of us. It was kind of rough. 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:33.079 As I got older, I started having babies, and then 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:36.120 I got married with my wife. You know, the valance 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.800 ate was on my rise in Chicago doing in the nineties, 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.680 and I didn't want that kind of atmosphere round for 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:47.000 my children. So we decided to move the air car 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.400 because she had family there, and I was like, okay, 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:52.920 we'll cool. I'll give it the shot. I was twenty 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.320 eight going on twenty nine, and I had three children's 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.240 at the time. And then when I got there, it 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.320 was started a smooth and didn't take me no longer 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:05.440 than fourteen days before I got my first job at 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.560 Bank's Lumber and life was great. 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.400 Yeah, it sounds like it. I mean, twenty nine years old, 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:14.680 three kids married, you know, more or less living. What 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:18.760 sounds like the you know, personification of the American dream. 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.800 And what's ironic is that you left Chicago, which had 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:23.800 not only had a rise in crime at the time, 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:28.800 but then the police were also very dangerous. The police 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.640 in those days, and this is not hyperbole. We're regularly 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:35.480 torturing people. They were bringing them to a warehouse instead 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:38.799 of the police station, not just suspects but also witnesses. 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:43.480 They were subjecting them to beatings, genital electrocution, suffocation, putting 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:45.599 bags over their head while they were chained to a wall, 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.920 beating them with telephone books. And they did that not 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.760 only the suspects again, but also the witnesses in order 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:55.599 to extract confessions but also testimonies that they needed to 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.640 make cases against others. Sticks So check out our coverage 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:02.039 of Marcus Wiggins, their youngest victim, and he was thirteen 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:04.800 years old when they subjected him to this torture. We're 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:06.560 going to have that linked in the bio as well. 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.480 So anyway, you had jumped out of the literal frying 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.840 pan into what you didn't know was another one in 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.640 the form of the town of Elkhart, Indiana. 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:21.039 You're right, Elkhart is a city of manifest and justice. 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:25.200 To date, there's been five exonerations from Elkhart. Our clinic 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.600 represents another dozen in terms of the number of wrongthully 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:31.440 convicted people from there. You know who knows what that 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.200 number is. I'm sure there's hundreds more. 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.440 I mean hundreds more. That would be crazy in a 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:41.200 big city, but we're talking about a town of fifty 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:45.080 thousand of that's really disturbing. And as you can hear 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.080 in our coverage of Andy Royer's case, which we're also 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:49.920 going to link in the bio, there's coerced false witness statements, 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:54.159 fraudulent fingerprint analysis, a false confession from a cognitively impaired man, 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:57.600 and the kicker. The prosecutor watched it happen and not 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.599 only did she not stop it, but rather she used 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:03.360 it to wrongfully convict not one, but two people in 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:04.960 this case. And then I mentioned that she is the 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:09.680 current elected prosecuting attorney for Elkhart County. And even more disturbing, 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:12.040 with how small a town it is, all of these 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.880 bad actors know one another, are aware of each other's misdeeds. 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:17.560 And one of the detectives in the case we're going 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.680 to cover today became the chief of police and that 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:24.760 lasted until twenty eighteen, and that's ed Winbigler. And by 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.080 the end of this episode, you're also going to be 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.000 acutely aware of his partner, the lead detective in this case, 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:34.400 Steve Rizzuko. Elliott, can you give us some background on Razuko? 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.680 You know, something that we would later obtain on the 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:41.520 civil side of things was Razuko's application of the Okar 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:44.080 Police Department and so they conduct, you know, a background 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.240 investigation to Berzuko, and then they go to like three 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.479 references that he actually lists. You know, this is like 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:52.880 when you're applying to a job, You're like, hey, let 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:55.440 me list like the three most favorable people to be 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.720 in the world. And at each of those three places, 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:01.240 they gave them terrible references. You know, one of the 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.400 people is like, I would never hire him again. This 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:07.840 guy was overly aggressive, you know, like every red flag. 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:10.600 He had, bad credit, was deep in debt, going through 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:15.240 a bankruptcy, several arrests for reckless driving, fighting, an accident 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.800 with a parked car, and a high speed chase with 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:18.360 the police. 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:23.920 So nothing in this background investigation was like, Steve Rzuko, 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:27.760 let's give that guy a badge and a gun and 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:29.920 see what he can do for the citizens of Belcar. 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:33.520 But at least one former supervisor seemed to have found 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:38.240 value in Razuko, saying, quote, he knew all the drunks, 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.840 all the bandits, and all the prostitutes. He's a big guy, 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:44.320 and he's been in some bar scrapes and come out 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:47.560 the winner. End quote. This guy was an uber, aggressive 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.400 dirt bag with plenty of friends in the underbelly of town. 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:52.480 And what you'll come to know about this guy is 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.680 that his emo was not solving crimes, but rather finding 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.600 a target of his investigation, just fixing all the facts 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.880 and coerciing not only usfect but witnesses as well to 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:03.800 give statements that fit his target. 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.440 Yeah, this guy was willing to violate the constitutional rights 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:11.360 of anyone in the community, especially people of color or 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:15.680 people without financial resources to take him on, and got 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:19.640 away with committing criminal offenses for decades. 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:21.760 And well, we'll go a bit further to what those 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.960 criminal acts were later on, but bear in mind he 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.640 wasn't the only problematic dirt bag investigating in this case. 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.160 There's also Ed wind Bigler, who eventually became the chief 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:36.000 of police, and another detective named Steve Ambrose. 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:40.880 Steve Ambrose later was implicated in serious misconduct as well, 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:44.559 including shooting and killing a black man in the Elkhart 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.840 community by the name of Derek Connors. And everybody that 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:51.040 I had spoken to an elk Cart has serious concerns 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:56.000 about whether Detective Ambrose murdered Derek Connors without justification, and 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:58.439 there was an investigation into that in a lawsuit. 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.280 So this town that Keith had moved to in search 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:03.840 of a safe place to raise his family. Wasn't actually 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:08.079 so safe with these guys protecting and serving. Now, not 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:10.920 only was it unsafe for Keith and his family, but 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:13.559 also another young man named Chris Parrish, who was also 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:17.880 wrongly targeted by Razuko, Ambrose and wind Bigler. Now Chris 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.440 was almost ten years younger than Keith and had grown 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:21.160 up in Elkhart. 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:24.040 I think with Chris Parrish something to keep in mind, 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.080 as he was a real young kid whose family had 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.120 run ins with the police department. And you know, as 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:33.240 we talk about this case, you'll see that the police 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:35.959 went out of their way to manufacture a keys against 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:39.880 Chris Parish when all the evidence credibly showed that he 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:41.079 was innocent all alone. 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:43.880 So it was these previous run into with the law, 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:46.240 which were nothing serious, by the way, but they offered 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.440 a motivation for the police to try to frame Chris, 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:51.920 who already had a mugshot from when he was fourteen 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:54.680 years old, which made it even easier for them. But 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:58.080 with you, Keith, you were brand new to town, unknown 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:00.920 to local law enforcement, so you see, like a pretty 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:03.400 random choice, but they went ahead and did it anyway, 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.440 did you know Chris Parrish before all this happened. 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:08.840 No, I never knew Chris Pare. 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:13.080 Yeah, so Christopher Parris and Keith Cooper never met each 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:18.480 other until a decade after Chris's exoneration. And you know, 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.360 a couple of years after Keith was exonerated, they had 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:25.880 separate defense attorneys. You know, Chris was from Elkhar, Keith 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:29.160 was from Chicago. They lived different lives. Frankly, there are 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:31.880 different age groups. You know, Keith was the period with children, 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:34.119 Chris was in his early twenties. 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:37.400 Yeah, Keith was like nine years older than him and 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:39.920 living a totally different lifestyle. So the idea of the 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.840 two of you committed an arm robbery together, on its face, 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.319 makes no sense. So let's get into the climate itself. Now, 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:48.559 this incident may not have even happened in the way 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.800 that the victim described it. The police really never did 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.160 collect any evidence at the scene, but rather it was 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:58.480 collected later for them by the alleged victims. But it's 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:02.120 really all we have to go on. So on October 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:04.520 twenty ninth, nineteen ninety six, allegedly, there were about six 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.439 people in an apartment in a public housing project in Elkhart, 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:11.440 seventeen year old Michael Kershner, his mother, Nona Canal, and 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:15.120 then about four of Michael's friends, including fifteen year old 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.679 Eddie Love and another guy named Jason Ackley and two others, 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:20.760 and they said that they were watching a movie, that 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.400 ridiculous movie, Don't be a Menace to South Central while 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.240 drinking your juice in the hood when they allegedly got 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:29.880 a knock on the door from two black men, one short, 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:31.839 one toll with a hat on, and they were looking 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.760 for someone named Shell. Whether that was short for Michelle, 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:36.400 we don't know. 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.880 In either event, they had the wrong apartment, according to victims. 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.400 You know, their account is that when they deny that 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:46.800 Shell was there, these two guys forced their way into 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:50.000 the apartment because the victims had like a bag of 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:54.280 like laundry coins on the living room table, and there 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:59.120 was an skas rifle. Ultimately there was a scuffle and 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.800 in the midst of the scuffle, one of the victims, 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:04.760 Michael Kirshner, was shot. 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:09.440 Right He allegedly got in between his mother and the gunman, 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:11.680 which was the taller of the two assailants, and took 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:15.160 a non fatal gunshot to the abdomen, which, if true, 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.560 is very heroic. Now, the taller gunman was the role 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.840 in this crime that Keith later got saddled with. Also 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.640 notable by the way, during that tussle, the taller man's 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:25.520 hat fell off. 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.400 Yeah, and it wasn't just any hat, you know back 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:30.880 in the eighties and nineties, you know, when they had malls. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.959 It was like one of those hats that you can customize. 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:36.719 There were like rhyan stones on it that formed the 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:40.559 letter J. Notably, you know, Keith Cooper doesn't have the 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.400 letter J anywhere in his name. But when the shooter 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.280 and the second person left the apartment, they left that hat, 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:52.520 and on that hat was DNA evidence that has excluded 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.280 Keith Cooper since the time of trial. 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.640 And we'll get into how that played out at trial 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.319 in a bit. And from what I can understand, this 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:03.840 hat and any other physical evidence from the scene, none 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.120 of it was even initially collected by the police on 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.160 the scene. What the hell is that all about? 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.120 There are two different perspectives to this. You know, later 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:14.079 there were some evidence that came out during Chris Parish's 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:19.360 post conviction litigation that alleged that the shooting happened in 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:21.960 a parking lot, and if they happen in a parking lot, 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.160 that might tend to explain why there wouldn't be any 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.160 physical evidence in the apartment. There's a second explanation, which 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.439 is that it's not just detectives and Elkhart that are 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:35.120 completely incompetent, but also crime scene technicians. And so the 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:38.840 crime scene technician when he went there, he didn't actually 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:43.079 do his job and look for physical evidence from the shooting. 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:46.680 And so two days later, when the victims came home 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.480 from the hospital, they were the ones who recovered the hat, 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.520 the shellcasings, called the police back and that's when the 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:57.400 Olkhar Police Department came and seized the physical evidence. 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.360 So there are some chain of custody issues from the 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:04.200 get go here. But nonetheless, they had some bullets, shellcasings, 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.280 the hat with the DNA that excludes Keith. And then 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:10.760 the witness's descriptions, right, two young black men, one was 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.040 short and stocky, and then the tall gunman who had 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.920 a long silver gun and was described as wiry. But 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:19.280 I'm not sure if Keith ever was wiry. It certainly 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:20.440 doesn't appear that way. Now. 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.080 Yeah, Keith is tall, but he's never been a wiry guy. 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.040 You're totally right about that. And in this case, there 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.600 was a composite that was created early on, and it's 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:34.640 like the most generic looking composite you'll ever see. I 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:36.920 mean it like basically was a human being. There was 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:39.800 no detail to it that would like lead you one 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.640 way or the other to who actually did the shooting. 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:44.720 And we'll link that in the bio as well. So 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:48.280 this generic composite leaves room for a very loose interpretation 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.480 as to which direction to take this investigation. So two 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.040 days after the crime, one of the witnesses, a fifteen 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.120 year old kid named Eddie Love, who may or may 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:58.720 not have been at risk of his own charges, had 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.720 a highly pressurized sit down with ed Win Bigler. And 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:06.440 it's been theorized that Winn Bigler may have been pushing 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:09.480 the idea that Chris Parrish was involved. So what is 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:10.960 the result of this conversation. 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.840 What's fascinating is there are like two different versions of 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:18.040 this based on the reports. So, like Detective Winn Bigler's 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.520 report said that Eddie Love said that the person look 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:25.760 like a person he knew named Chris Parrish, he didn't 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.920 say it was Chris Parrish. So he was like clearly 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:31.720 telling the cops like, hey, you know, like, I know 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:34.160 this guy, Chris Parrish, the guy you're looking for, looks 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:38.800 like him. But Detective Verzuko would later write a report 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.840 saying that Eddie Love named Chris Parrish as a person 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:43.480 who did this. 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.760 So, whether they had already planned on doing this or not, 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.760 they now have a reason to place Chris Parrish's photo 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.520 in a lineup to be viewed by Michael Kershner, Nona Kanell, 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:57.440 and the other four robbery victims. Now, remember they only 0:15:57.520 --> 0:15:59.800 had a picture of Chris from when he was fourteen, 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.440 even though Chris was twenty years old at the time 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:07.000 of the crime, So the lineup was totally suspect. Plus 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.400 they knew that he was in Chicago. 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.960 You know, which is about two hours from Malcart, Indiana, 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.760 and he had somewhere around fifteen alibi witnesses who testified 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:23.280 his criminal trial, including a minister and Brizuko would testify 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.360 later on in Chris's civil case. This is like fifteen 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:29.960 years later. I believed when the trial was over that 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.360 Chris was going to be exonerated because I believed as 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:38.240 out by witnesses. That's a quote from Brazuko, And it 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:42.040 really is a striking admission, because if you believe Chris 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:45.600 Parish is out by witnesses, that Chris is innocent, then 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.800 how does a police officer somehow get a half dozen 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:53.920 people to make a positive identification with Chris Parish? 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:54.560 Right? 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.600 Both can't be true. Sure, maybe there's some statistical probability 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:02.040 that one person could mistakenly pick Chris out of a 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:04.080 photo ray, But how do you get a half dozen 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:08.720 people to mistakenly pick Chris Parrish? I have a photo ray? Well, 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.560 you do it by putting a fourteen year old juvenile 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:15.159 photo in an array with five adult men, knowing that 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:17.800 they described the person as younger looking, and you lead 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.320 your eyewitnesses to misidentify somebody who's innocent. 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.879 So they made this suggestive array with Chris's juvenile photo 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.639 and led the six witnesses to id him. Chris was 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:30.560 charged shortly after the actual incident, to later be taken 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.800 to trial. But Keith, you were brand new in town. 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:36.320 They didn't even know you, let alone have a photo 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:39.639 of you. So how did you get pulled into this? 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.680 That all started for the They said, I arrived later 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:44.399 for a purse. 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:49.360 So a personatching happened. But Keith was like literally walking 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:52.359 on the street his car broken down. He went to 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:56.399 go get some like groceries, and the detective saw a 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:59.600 tall black guy and was like, oh, there was a 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:02.359 person with a tall black eye. Let me just bring 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:05.359 this guy over. So he drove Keith over to the 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:06.200 victim's house. 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:07.960 And I saw the lady on the porch with the 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:12.920 other officers, and I'm saying to myself, how she gonna 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:16.119 be a just identify me when I'm sending in the backseat, 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:20.080 and they squad covered these little gates around the window 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:21.879 where you can't even really see inside. 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:23.040 Was she white? 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.200 She was white? Yes, you were, okay, So. 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:31.240 We have a crossracial identification from a distance through a 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:33.960 window which is screened, as you said, so I barely 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.000 could see in it all. And the suggestive nature of 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:38.560 it is extreme. 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:43.520 Right then and there, my life went to shits. Well, 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.840 she identified me as the person at you. That was 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.800 a lot when I got to the police station. A 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:53.440 lot of things they did at the police station. It 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.480 went untold because see they had me take a lot 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:58.359 to take the test to prove that I was innocent 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:02.520 of that case. But it did no good because Zuko's 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:04.760 had other flanks would be And. 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.639 This is like from Detective Razuko's own mouth. You know, 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.120 he's testified to this. Detective Razuko sees Keith in there 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.720 and he's like, oh, tall black guy, that must be 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:15.760 the tall black guy I'm looking for in the cursion shooting. 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.320 I mean like it literally could have been like any 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.840 tall black guy in America who could have been brought 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:24.040 into that station and their life would have been ripped 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.680 away because Razuko just wanted to close the case instead assaulted. 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.840 Here, you have two separate incidents involving a tall black man, 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.080 and then both the pers snatching detective and Razuko just 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:56.040 picked out any old, tall black guy and it just 0:19:56.200 --> 0:20:00.240 happened to be Keith both times. So you you were 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:02.840 in jail for two months of waiting trial on the 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:07.160 per snatch correct, Well, how much was bail on that case? 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:11.720 Uh? It was ten thousand thousand ago to a bond out. 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:16.720 And not having access to that money like so many 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:18.560 other people, you're stuck in his jail. 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:24.720 I'm stuck. I'm set waiting trial. Right before I was 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:27.879 getting ready to go to trial for the personnatch, I 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:32.320 get a visitor. The visit was Detective Zip Goes. He 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:34.320 had me come down to his office and I sat 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:36.920 down across from him and told me. He said, hey, 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:41.520 if you take this personatching case to trial, and if 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:45.200 you do win this, I have another case fate. I said, 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:47.879 I didn't commit this personatcher, the I i't do anything 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:50.199 else out here in their car. He said, if I 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.320 got six people to save the difference, And he gave 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:57.600 me a police report and I'm read and he tells 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.000 me that you're the one who attempted to rob these 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.760 people in shop with Michael Curse. And at that time 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:05.840 I'm like no, I said I didn't do it. He said, well, 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:09.600 you take this egg and you lay on it because 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:11.879 if you, if you get found out give to that Battley, 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:13.840 you will be faced with this hid And as I'm 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:16.639 sitting there awaiting for trial that he was on the 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:19.639 visit I was getting in the county jail, and this 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:24.240 time he was letting me know, hey, this is your baby. 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:26.520 You're sitting on that egg. Yeah, you gonna get found 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:29.639 gifted this what you he was threading me. After a 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:31.760 couple of months went past, I went to trial. I 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:34.959 was I was acquitted of that there right when they 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:38.320 were processing me out. They came with a benchwarm and 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:41.120 I asked him for what he said, timper arm Rob 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:44.760 right there, and that I knew missus wasn't gonna let 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:45.320 me go home. 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:48.760 No, he was not. Like he had already explained to you, 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:50.960 he had six people that were ready to identify you, 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:53.480