1
00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,760
Speaker 1: On October twenty ninth, nineteen ninety six, Elkhart, Indiana police

2
00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:08,319
Speaker 1: were called to the apartment of a Michael Kirshner and

3
00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:12,520
Speaker 1: his mother known a Canal. Allegedly, while they and four

4
00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,720
Speaker 1: friends were watching a movie, two men forced their way in,

5
00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:20,079
Speaker 1: demanding money and drugs. After the taller of the pair

6
00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,120
Speaker 1: allegedly shot at his friends and missed. A struggle between

7
00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,000
Speaker 1: Michael Kerscher and the shooter resulted in a non fatal

8
00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:30,040
Speaker 1: gunshot wound to Michael's abdomen. The gunman's hat fell off

9
00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,360
Speaker 1: during the struggle, and the two assailants fled. The police

10
00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,599
Speaker 1: collected no evidence from the scene, but took statements from

11
00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,720
Speaker 1: the witnesses and victims, who described the shooter as tall

12
00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,240
Speaker 1: and skinny carrying a long silver gun, and the other

13
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,720
Speaker 1: man as short and stocky with no weapon. Two days later,

14
00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,960
Speaker 1: one of the witnesses, Eddie Love, allegedly identified a short

15
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,480
Speaker 1: and stocky man named Chris Parrish. About three months later,

16
00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,160
Speaker 1: a suspected persnatcher named Keith Cooper was identified as the

17
00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,920
Speaker 1: taller shooter from a photo lineup. Even though the jury

18
00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,640
Speaker 1: was presented with DNA results from the sweatbed of the

19
00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:11,200
Speaker 1: shooter's hat that were allegedly inconclusive. The identifications appeared conclusive

20
00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:16,240
Speaker 1: enough to separately convict both matt But this is wronful conviction.

21
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:23,880
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and we'll be

22
00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,760
Speaker 1: right back. The Pacers Foundation is a proud supporter of

23
00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,280
Speaker 1: this episode of Wrawful Conviction and of the Last Mile organization,

24
00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 1: which provides business and tech training to help incarcerated individuals

25
00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,080
Speaker 1: successfully and permanently re enter the workforce. The Pacers Foundation

26
00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,360
Speaker 1: is committed to improving the lives of hoosiers across Indiana,

27
00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,279
Speaker 1: supporting organizations that are dedicated primarily to helping young people

28
00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,000
Speaker 1: and students. For more information on the work of the

29
00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,160
Speaker 1: Pacers Foundation or the Last Mile program, visit Pacersfoundation dot

30
00:01:53,240 --> 00:02:05,480
Speaker 1: org or the Lastmile dot org. Welcome back to Raeful Conviction. Today,

31
00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,520
Speaker 1: we're going to tell the story of a man who

32
00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,280
Speaker 1: was wrongfully convicted in a place that, well, with what

33
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:15,079
Speaker 1: has been uncovered there already, in such a small population,

34
00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,399
Speaker 1: it just might be the per capital wrongful conviction capital

35
00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,639
Speaker 1: of this country and therefore the world a dubious distinction.

36
00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:29,120
Speaker 1: And I'm talking about Elkhart, Indiana. But first let's introduce

37
00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,160
Speaker 1: the man himself, Keith Cooper. I mean, I'm sorry you're

38
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,600
Speaker 1: here because of the reason why you're here and what

39
00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,600
Speaker 1: you had to go through, but I'm really happy and

40
00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:38,959
Speaker 1: honor that you're here with us today.

41
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:40,360
Speaker 2: I'm glad to be here.

42
00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,400
Speaker 1: And with him is his civil attorney and our resident

43
00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,000
Speaker 1: Elkhart expert, who you might remember from our coverage of

44
00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,160
Speaker 1: Andy Royer's case, which we're going to have linked in

45
00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,520
Speaker 1: the bio. This man is an adjunct professor at Notre

46
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,079
Speaker 1: Dame Law, a staff attorney at the Exoneration Clinic out

47
00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,400
Speaker 1: of the University of Chicago, and a partner at the

48
00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,760
Speaker 1: nationally recognized civil rights law firm Lovy and Loby, where

49
00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,679
Speaker 1: he was an investigator before he even passed the bar.

50
00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,960
Speaker 1: That's some that's some impressive resume, and we're honored to

51
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:09,639
Speaker 1: have you here with us again.

52
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,600
Speaker 3: Elly is Low Sarry, thanks Jason, thanks so much for

53
00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:13,200
Speaker 3: having us on.

54
00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,720
Speaker 1: Now, Keith, you didn't always live in card Indiana. You

55
00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:18,680
Speaker 1: weren't born and raised there, right, You started off on

56
00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:20,480
Speaker 1: the South side of Chicago, So tell us a little

57
00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:21,079
Speaker 1: bit about that.

58
00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,480
Speaker 2: I grew up in a single family hall. My mother

59
00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,600
Speaker 2: was raising three of us. It was kind of rough.

60
00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:33,079
Speaker 2: As I got older, I started having babies, and then

61
00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,120
Speaker 2: I got married with my wife. You know, the valance

62
00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,800
Speaker 2: ate was on my rise in Chicago doing in the nineties,

63
00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,680
Speaker 2: and I didn't want that kind of atmosphere round for

64
00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,000
Speaker 2: my children. So we decided to move the air car

65
00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,400
Speaker 2: because she had family there, and I was like, okay,

66
00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,920
Speaker 2: we'll cool. I'll give it the shot. I was twenty

67
00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,320
Speaker 2: eight going on twenty nine, and I had three children's

68
00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,240
Speaker 2: at the time. And then when I got there, it

69
00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,320
Speaker 2: was started a smooth and didn't take me no longer

70
00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,440
Speaker 2: than fourteen days before I got my first job at

71
00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,560
Speaker 2: Bank's Lumber and life was great.

72
00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like it. I mean, twenty nine years old,

73
00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,680
Speaker 1: three kids married, you know, more or less living. What

74
00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,760
Speaker 1: sounds like the you know, personification of the American dream.

75
00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,800
Speaker 1: And what's ironic is that you left Chicago, which had

76
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,800
Speaker 1: not only had a rise in crime at the time,

77
00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:28,800
Speaker 1: but then the police were also very dangerous. The police

78
00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,640
Speaker 1: in those days, and this is not hyperbole. We're regularly

79
00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,480
Speaker 1: torturing people. They were bringing them to a warehouse instead

80
00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,799
Speaker 1: of the police station, not just suspects but also witnesses.

81
00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:43,480
Speaker 1: They were subjecting them to beatings, genital electrocution, suffocation, putting

82
00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:45,599
Speaker 1: bags over their head while they were chained to a wall,

83
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,920
Speaker 1: beating them with telephone books. And they did that not

84
00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,760
Speaker 1: only the suspects again, but also the witnesses in order

85
00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,599
Speaker 1: to extract confessions but also testimonies that they needed to

86
00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,640
Speaker 1: make cases against others. Sticks So check out our coverage

87
00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,039
Speaker 1: of Marcus Wiggins, their youngest victim, and he was thirteen

88
00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,800
Speaker 1: years old when they subjected him to this torture. We're

89
00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,560
Speaker 1: going to have that linked in the bio as well.

90
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,480
Speaker 1: So anyway, you had jumped out of the literal frying

91
00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,840
Speaker 1: pan into what you didn't know was another one in

92
00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,640
Speaker 1: the form of the town of Elkhart, Indiana.

93
00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:21,039
Speaker 3: You're right, Elkhart is a city of manifest and justice.

94
00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,200
Speaker 3: To date, there's been five exonerations from Elkhart. Our clinic

95
00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,600
Speaker 3: represents another dozen in terms of the number of wrongthully

96
00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,440
Speaker 3: convicted people from there. You know who knows what that

97
00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,200
Speaker 3: number is. I'm sure there's hundreds more.

98
00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,440
Speaker 1: I mean hundreds more. That would be crazy in a

99
00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,200
Speaker 1: big city, but we're talking about a town of fifty

100
00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,080
Speaker 1: thousand of that's really disturbing. And as you can hear

101
00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,080
Speaker 1: in our coverage of Andy Royer's case, which we're also

102
00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,920
Speaker 1: going to link in the bio, there's coerced false witness statements,

103
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:54,159
Speaker 1: fraudulent fingerprint analysis, a false confession from a cognitively impaired man,

104
00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,600
Speaker 1: and the kicker. The prosecutor watched it happen and not

105
00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,599
Speaker 1: only did she not stop it, but rather she used

106
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,360
Speaker 1: it to wrongfully convict not one, but two people in

107
00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:04,960
Speaker 1: this case. And then I mentioned that she is the

108
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,680
Speaker 1: current elected prosecuting attorney for Elkhart County. And even more disturbing,

109
00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,040
Speaker 1: with how small a town it is, all of these

110
00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,880
Speaker 1: bad actors know one another, are aware of each other's misdeeds.

111
00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:17,560
Speaker 1: And one of the detectives in the case we're going

112
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,680
Speaker 1: to cover today became the chief of police and that

113
00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 1: lasted until twenty eighteen, and that's ed Winbigler. And by

114
00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,080
Speaker 1: the end of this episode, you're also going to be

115
00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,000
Speaker 1: acutely aware of his partner, the lead detective in this case,

116
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,400
Speaker 1: Steve Rizzuko. Elliott, can you give us some background on Razuko?

117
00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,680
Speaker 4: You know, something that we would later obtain on the

118
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,520
Speaker 4: civil side of things was Razuko's application of the Okar

119
00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,080
Speaker 4: Police Department and so they conduct, you know, a background

120
00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,240
Speaker 4: investigation to Berzuko, and then they go to like three

121
00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,479
Speaker 4: references that he actually lists. You know, this is like

122
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,880
Speaker 4: when you're applying to a job, You're like, hey, let

123
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,440
Speaker 4: me list like the three most favorable people to be

124
00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,720
Speaker 4: in the world. And at each of those three places,

125
00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,240
Speaker 4: they gave them terrible references. You know, one of the

126
00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,400
Speaker 4: people is like, I would never hire him again. This

127
00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,840
Speaker 4: guy was overly aggressive, you know, like every red flag.

128
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,600
Speaker 1: He had, bad credit, was deep in debt, going through

129
00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:15,240
Speaker 1: a bankruptcy, several arrests for reckless driving, fighting, an accident

130
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,800
Speaker 1: with a parked car, and a high speed chase with

131
00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:18,360
Speaker 1: the police.

132
00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,920
Speaker 4: So nothing in this background investigation was like, Steve Rzuko,

133
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,760
Speaker 4: let's give that guy a badge and a gun and

134
00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:29,920
Speaker 4: see what he can do for the citizens of Belcar.

135
00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,520
Speaker 1: But at least one former supervisor seemed to have found

136
00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:38,240
Speaker 1: value in Razuko, saying, quote, he knew all the drunks,

137
00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,840
Speaker 1: all the bandits, and all the prostitutes. He's a big guy,

138
00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,320
Speaker 1: and he's been in some bar scrapes and come out

139
00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,560
Speaker 1: the winner. End quote. This guy was an uber, aggressive

140
00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,400
Speaker 1: dirt bag with plenty of friends in the underbelly of town.

141
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,480
Speaker 1: And what you'll come to know about this guy is

142
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,680
Speaker 1: that his emo was not solving crimes, but rather finding

143
00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,600
Speaker 1: a target of his investigation, just fixing all the facts

144
00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,880
Speaker 1: and coerciing not only usfect but witnesses as well to

145
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:03,800
Speaker 1: give statements that fit his target.

146
00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, this guy was willing to violate the constitutional rights

147
00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,360
Speaker 4: of anyone in the community, especially people of color or

148
00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,680
Speaker 4: people without financial resources to take him on, and got

149
00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,640
Speaker 4: away with committing criminal offenses for decades.

150
00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:21,760
Speaker 1: And well, we'll go a bit further to what those

151
00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,960
Speaker 1: criminal acts were later on, but bear in mind he

152
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,640
Speaker 1: wasn't the only problematic dirt bag investigating in this case.

153
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,160
Speaker 1: There's also Ed wind Bigler, who eventually became the chief

154
00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,000
Speaker 1: of police, and another detective named Steve Ambrose.

155
00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,880
Speaker 4: Steve Ambrose later was implicated in serious misconduct as well,

156
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,559
Speaker 4: including shooting and killing a black man in the Elkhart

157
00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,840
Speaker 4: community by the name of Derek Connors. And everybody that

158
00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,040
Speaker 4: I had spoken to an elk Cart has serious concerns

159
00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:56,000
Speaker 4: about whether Detective Ambrose murdered Derek Connors without justification, and

160
00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,439
Speaker 4: there was an investigation into that in a lawsuit.

161
00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,280
Speaker 1: So this town that Keith had moved to in search

162
00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,840
Speaker 1: of a safe place to raise his family. Wasn't actually

163
00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,079
Speaker 1: so safe with these guys protecting and serving. Now, not

164
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,920
Speaker 1: only was it unsafe for Keith and his family, but

165
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,559
Speaker 1: also another young man named Chris Parrish, who was also

166
00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,880
Speaker 1: wrongly targeted by Razuko, Ambrose and wind Bigler. Now Chris

167
00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,440
Speaker 1: was almost ten years younger than Keith and had grown

168
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:21,160
Speaker 1: up in Elkhart.

169
00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,040
Speaker 4: I think with Chris Parrish something to keep in mind,

170
00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,080
Speaker 4: as he was a real young kid whose family had

171
00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,120
Speaker 4: run ins with the police department. And you know, as

172
00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,240
Speaker 4: we talk about this case, you'll see that the police

173
00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,959
Speaker 4: went out of their way to manufacture a keys against

174
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,880
Speaker 4: Chris Parish when all the evidence credibly showed that he

175
00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:41,079
Speaker 4: was innocent all alone.

176
00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,880
Speaker 1: So it was these previous run into with the law,

177
00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,240
Speaker 1: which were nothing serious, by the way, but they offered

178
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,440
Speaker 1: a motivation for the police to try to frame Chris,

179
00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,920
Speaker 1: who already had a mugshot from when he was fourteen

180
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,680
Speaker 1: years old, which made it even easier for them. But

181
00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,080
Speaker 1: with you, Keith, you were brand new to town, unknown

182
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,920
Speaker 1: to local law enforcement, so you see, like a pretty

183
00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,400
Speaker 1: random choice, but they went ahead and did it anyway,

184
00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,440
Speaker 1: did you know Chris Parrish before all this happened.

185
00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:08,840
Speaker 2: No, I never knew Chris Pare.

186
00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, so Christopher Parris and Keith Cooper never met each

187
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:18,480
Speaker 4: other until a decade after Chris's exoneration. And you know,

188
00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,360
Speaker 4: a couple of years after Keith was exonerated, they had

189
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,880
Speaker 4: separate defense attorneys. You know, Chris was from Elkhar, Keith

190
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,160
Speaker 4: was from Chicago. They lived different lives. Frankly, there are

191
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,880
Speaker 4: different age groups. You know, Keith was the period with children,

192
00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,119
Speaker 4: Chris was in his early twenties.

193
00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, Keith was like nine years older than him and

194
00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,920
Speaker 1: living a totally different lifestyle. So the idea of the

195
00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,840
Speaker 1: two of you committed an arm robbery together, on its face,

196
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,319
Speaker 1: makes no sense. So let's get into the climate itself. Now,

197
00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,559
Speaker 1: this incident may not have even happened in the way

198
00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,800
Speaker 1: that the victim described it. The police really never did

199
00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,160
Speaker 1: collect any evidence at the scene, but rather it was

200
00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:58,480
Speaker 1: collected later for them by the alleged victims. But it's

201
00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,120
Speaker 1: really all we have to go on. So on October

202
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,520
Speaker 1: twenty ninth, nineteen ninety six, allegedly, there were about six

203
00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,439
Speaker 1: people in an apartment in a public housing project in Elkhart,

204
00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,440
Speaker 1: seventeen year old Michael Kershner, his mother, Nona Canal, and

205
00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,120
Speaker 1: then about four of Michael's friends, including fifteen year old

206
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,679
Speaker 1: Eddie Love and another guy named Jason Ackley and two others,

207
00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:20,760
Speaker 1: and they said that they were watching a movie, that

208
00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,400
Speaker 1: ridiculous movie, Don't be a Menace to South Central while

209
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,240
Speaker 1: drinking your juice in the hood when they allegedly got

210
00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,880
Speaker 1: a knock on the door from two black men, one short,

211
00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:31,839
Speaker 1: one toll with a hat on, and they were looking

212
00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,760
Speaker 1: for someone named Shell. Whether that was short for Michelle,

213
00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:36,400
Speaker 1: we don't know.

214
00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,880
Speaker 4: In either event, they had the wrong apartment, according to victims.

215
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,400
Speaker 4: You know, their account is that when they deny that

216
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,800
Speaker 4: Shell was there, these two guys forced their way into

217
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,000
Speaker 4: the apartment because the victims had like a bag of

218
00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,280
Speaker 4: like laundry coins on the living room table, and there

219
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:59,120
Speaker 4: was an skas rifle. Ultimately there was a scuffle and

220
00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,800
Speaker 4: in the midst of the scuffle, one of the victims,

221
00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:04,760
Speaker 4: Michael Kirshner, was shot.

222
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,440
Speaker 1: Right He allegedly got in between his mother and the gunman,

223
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,680
Speaker 1: which was the taller of the two assailants, and took

224
00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,160
Speaker 1: a non fatal gunshot to the abdomen, which, if true,

225
00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,560
Speaker 1: is very heroic. Now, the taller gunman was the role

226
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,840
Speaker 1: in this crime that Keith later got saddled with. Also

227
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,640
Speaker 1: notable by the way, during that tussle, the taller man's

228
00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:25,520
Speaker 1: hat fell off.

229
00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it wasn't just any hat, you know back

230
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,880
Speaker 3: in the eighties and nineties, you know, when they had malls.

231
00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,959
Speaker 3: It was like one of those hats that you can customize.

232
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,719
Speaker 3: There were like rhyan stones on it that formed the

233
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,559
Speaker 3: letter J. Notably, you know, Keith Cooper doesn't have the

234
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,400
Speaker 3: letter J anywhere in his name. But when the shooter

235
00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,280
Speaker 3: and the second person left the apartment, they left that hat,

236
00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,520
Speaker 3: and on that hat was DNA evidence that has excluded

237
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,280
Speaker 3: Keith Cooper since the time of trial.

238
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,640
Speaker 1: And we'll get into how that played out at trial

239
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,319
Speaker 1: in a bit. And from what I can understand, this

240
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,840
Speaker 1: hat and any other physical evidence from the scene, none

241
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,120
Speaker 1: of it was even initially collected by the police on

242
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,160
Speaker 1: the scene. What the hell is that all about?

243
00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,120
Speaker 4: There are two different perspectives to this. You know, later

244
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,079
Speaker 4: there were some evidence that came out during Chris Parish's

245
00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:19,360
Speaker 4: post conviction litigation that alleged that the shooting happened in

246
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,960
Speaker 4: a parking lot, and if they happen in a parking lot,

247
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,160
Speaker 4: that might tend to explain why there wouldn't be any

248
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,160
Speaker 4: physical evidence in the apartment. There's a second explanation, which

249
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,439
Speaker 4: is that it's not just detectives and Elkhart that are

250
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,120
Speaker 4: completely incompetent, but also crime scene technicians. And so the

251
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,840
Speaker 4: crime scene technician when he went there, he didn't actually

252
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:43,079
Speaker 4: do his job and look for physical evidence from the shooting.

253
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,680
Speaker 4: And so two days later, when the victims came home

254
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,480
Speaker 4: from the hospital, they were the ones who recovered the hat,

255
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,520
Speaker 4: the shellcasings, called the police back and that's when the

256
00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,400
Speaker 4: Olkhar Police Department came and seized the physical evidence.

257
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,360
Speaker 1: So there are some chain of custody issues from the

258
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,200
Speaker 1: get go here. But nonetheless, they had some bullets, shellcasings,

259
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,280
Speaker 1: the hat with the DNA that excludes Keith. And then

260
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,760
Speaker 1: the witness's descriptions, right, two young black men, one was

261
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,040
Speaker 1: short and stocky, and then the tall gunman who had

262
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,920
Speaker 1: a long silver gun and was described as wiry. But

263
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,280
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if Keith ever was wiry. It certainly

264
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:20,440
Speaker 1: doesn't appear that way. Now.

265
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, Keith is tall, but he's never been a wiry guy.

266
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,040
Speaker 3: You're totally right about that. And in this case, there

267
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,600
Speaker 3: was a composite that was created early on, and it's

268
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:34,640
Speaker 3: like the most generic looking composite you'll ever see. I

269
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,920
Speaker 3: mean it like basically was a human being. There was

270
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,800
Speaker 3: no detail to it that would like lead you one

271
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,640
Speaker 3: way or the other to who actually did the shooting.

272
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:44,720
Speaker 1: And we'll link that in the bio as well. So

273
00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,280
Speaker 1: this generic composite leaves room for a very loose interpretation

274
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,480
Speaker 1: as to which direction to take this investigation. So two

275
00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,040
Speaker 1: days after the crime, one of the witnesses, a fifteen

276
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,120
Speaker 1: year old kid named Eddie Love, who may or may

277
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,720
Speaker 1: not have been at risk of his own charges, had

278
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,720
Speaker 1: a highly pressurized sit down with ed Win Bigler. And

279
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,440
Speaker 1: it's been theorized that Winn Bigler may have been pushing

280
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,480
Speaker 1: the idea that Chris Parrish was involved. So what is

281
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:10,960
Speaker 1: the result of this conversation.

282
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,840
Speaker 3: What's fascinating is there are like two different versions of

283
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,040
Speaker 3: this based on the reports. So, like Detective Winn Bigler's

284
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,520
Speaker 3: report said that Eddie Love said that the person look

285
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,760
Speaker 3: like a person he knew named Chris Parrish, he didn't

286
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,920
Speaker 3: say it was Chris Parrish. So he was like clearly

287
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,720
Speaker 3: telling the cops like, hey, you know, like, I know

288
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,160
Speaker 3: this guy, Chris Parrish, the guy you're looking for, looks

289
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,800
Speaker 3: like him. But Detective Verzuko would later write a report

290
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,840
Speaker 3: saying that Eddie Love named Chris Parrish as a person

291
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:43,480
Speaker 3: who did this.

292
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,760
Speaker 1: So, whether they had already planned on doing this or not,

293
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,760
Speaker 1: they now have a reason to place Chris Parrish's photo

294
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,520
Speaker 1: in a lineup to be viewed by Michael Kershner, Nona Kanell,

295
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,440
Speaker 1: and the other four robbery victims. Now, remember they only

296
00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,800
Speaker 1: had a picture of Chris from when he was fourteen,

297
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,440
Speaker 1: even though Chris was twenty years old at the time

298
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:07,000
Speaker 1: of the crime, So the lineup was totally suspect. Plus

299
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,400
Speaker 1: they knew that he was in Chicago.

300
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,960
Speaker 4: You know, which is about two hours from Malcart, Indiana,

301
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,760
Speaker 4: and he had somewhere around fifteen alibi witnesses who testified

302
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:23,280
Speaker 4: his criminal trial, including a minister and Brizuko would testify

303
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,360
Speaker 4: later on in Chris's civil case. This is like fifteen

304
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,960
Speaker 4: years later. I believed when the trial was over that

305
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,360
Speaker 4: Chris was going to be exonerated because I believed as

306
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:38,240
Speaker 4: out by witnesses. That's a quote from Brazuko, And it

307
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,040
Speaker 4: really is a striking admission, because if you believe Chris

308
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,600
Speaker 4: Parish is out by witnesses, that Chris is innocent, then

309
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,800
Speaker 4: how does a police officer somehow get a half dozen

310
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,920
Speaker 4: people to make a positive identification with Chris Parish?

311
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:54,560
Speaker 2: Right?

312
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,600
Speaker 4: Both can't be true. Sure, maybe there's some statistical probability

313
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,040
Speaker 4: that one person could mistakenly pick Chris out of a

314
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,080
Speaker 4: photo ray, But how do you get a half dozen

315
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,720
Speaker 4: people to mistakenly pick Chris Parrish? I have a photo ray? Well,

316
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,560
Speaker 4: you do it by putting a fourteen year old juvenile

317
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:15,159
Speaker 4: photo in an array with five adult men, knowing that

318
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,800
Speaker 4: they described the person as younger looking, and you lead

319
00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,320
Speaker 4: your eyewitnesses to misidentify somebody who's innocent.

320
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,879
Speaker 1: So they made this suggestive array with Chris's juvenile photo

321
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,639
Speaker 1: and led the six witnesses to id him. Chris was

322
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,560
Speaker 1: charged shortly after the actual incident, to later be taken

323
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,800
Speaker 1: to trial. But Keith, you were brand new in town.

324
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,320
Speaker 1: They didn't even know you, let alone have a photo

325
00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,639
Speaker 1: of you. So how did you get pulled into this?

326
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,680
Speaker 2: That all started for the They said, I arrived later

327
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:44,399
Speaker 2: for a purse.

328
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,360
Speaker 3: So a personatching happened. But Keith was like literally walking

329
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,359
Speaker 3: on the street his car broken down. He went to

330
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,399
Speaker 3: go get some like groceries, and the detective saw a

331
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,600
Speaker 3: tall black guy and was like, oh, there was a

332
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,359
Speaker 3: person with a tall black eye. Let me just bring

333
00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,359
Speaker 3: this guy over. So he drove Keith over to the

334
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:06,200
Speaker 3: victim's house.

335
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 2: And I saw the lady on the porch with the

336
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:12,920
Speaker 2: other officers, and I'm saying to myself, how she gonna

337
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,119
Speaker 2: be a just identify me when I'm sending in the backseat,

338
00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,080
Speaker 2: and they squad covered these little gates around the window

339
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:21,879
Speaker 2: where you can't even really see inside.

340
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:23,040
Speaker 1: Was she white?

341
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,200
Speaker 2: She was white? Yes, you were, okay, So.

342
00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:31,240
Speaker 1: We have a crossracial identification from a distance through a

343
00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:33,960
Speaker 1: window which is screened, as you said, so I barely

344
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,000
Speaker 1: could see in it all. And the suggestive nature of

345
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:38,560
Speaker 1: it is extreme.

346
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:43,520
Speaker 2: Right then and there, my life went to shits. Well,

347
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,840
Speaker 2: she identified me as the person at you. That was

348
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,800
Speaker 2: a lot when I got to the police station. A

349
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,440
Speaker 2: lot of things they did at the police station. It

350
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,480
Speaker 2: went untold because see they had me take a lot

351
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,359
Speaker 2: to take the test to prove that I was innocent

352
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,520
Speaker 2: of that case. But it did no good because Zuko's

353
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,760
Speaker 2: had other flanks would be And.

354
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,639
Speaker 3: This is like from Detective Razuko's own mouth. You know,

355
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,120
Speaker 3: he's testified to this. Detective Razuko sees Keith in there

356
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,720
Speaker 3: and he's like, oh, tall black guy, that must be

357
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:15,760
Speaker 3: the tall black guy I'm looking for in the cursion shooting.

358
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,320
Speaker 3: I mean like it literally could have been like any

359
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 3: tall black guy in America who could have been brought

360
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,040
Speaker 3: into that station and their life would have been ripped

361
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,680
Speaker 3: away because Razuko just wanted to close the case instead assaulted.

362
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,840
Speaker 1: Here, you have two separate incidents involving a tall black man,

363
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,080
Speaker 1: and then both the pers snatching detective and Razuko just

364
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 1: picked out any old, tall black guy and it just

365
00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,240
Speaker 1: happened to be Keith both times. So you you were

366
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 1: in jail for two months of waiting trial on the

367
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,160
Speaker 1: per snatch correct, Well, how much was bail on that case?

368
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 2: Uh? It was ten thousand thousand ago to a bond out.

369
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 1: And not having access to that money like so many

370
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:18,560
Speaker 1: other people, you're stuck in his jail.

371
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 2: I'm stuck. I'm set waiting trial. Right before I was

372
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,879
Speaker 2: getting ready to go to trial for the personnatch, I

373
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 2: get a visitor. The visit was Detective Zip Goes. He

374
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 2: had me come down to his office and I sat

375
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,920
Speaker 2: down across from him and told me. He said, hey,

376
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 2: if you take this personatching case to trial, and if

377
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 2: you do win this, I have another case fate. I said,

378
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 2: I didn't commit this personatcher, the I i't do anything

379
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,199
Speaker 2: else out here in their car. He said, if I

380
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 2: got six people to save the difference, And he gave

381
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 2: me a police report and I'm read and he tells

382
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 2: me that you're the one who attempted to rob these

383
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 2: people in shop with Michael Curse. And at that time

384
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 2: I'm like no, I said I didn't do it. He said, well,

385
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 2: you take this egg and you lay on it because

386
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 2: if you, if you get found out give to that Battley,

387
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 2: you will be faced with this hid And as I'm

388
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 2: sitting there awaiting for trial that he was on the

389
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 2: visit I was getting in the county jail, and this

390
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 2: time he was letting me know, hey, this is your baby.

391
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 2: You're sitting on that egg. Yeah, you gonna get found

392
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,639
Speaker 2: gifted this what you he was threading me. After a

393
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 2: couple of months went past, I went to trial. I

394
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,959
Speaker 2: was I was acquitted of that there right when they

395
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 2: were processing me out. They came with a benchwarm and

396
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,120
Speaker 2: I asked him for what he said, timper arm Rob

397
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 2: right there, and that I knew missus wasn't gonna let

398
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 2: me go home.

399
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 1: No, he was not. Like he had already explained to you,

400
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 1: he had six people that were ready to identify you,

401
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 1: and all of those ideas, with the exception of Eddie Love,

402
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 1: were going to be cross Rachel, which I'll say it again,

403
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,879
Speaker 1: in study after study has been proven to be less

404
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 1: accurate than guessing. So we had your picture now, and

405
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,360
Speaker 1: you put it into another suggestive lineup.

406
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 3: What's remarkable about Elkhart is even though they had the

407
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 3: ability to do live lineups back in the nineties, they

408
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 3: declined to do it. All of the identifications in this

409
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 3: case were made on photo rays, and if you look

410
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 3: at the photo rays, it's like, yeah, canel id Keith

411
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,919
Speaker 3: kurshioner ide Keith And you're like, oh wow, these are

412
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,919
Speaker 3: positive identifications. You know, there's no reports about you know,

413
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 3: confidence levels, or whether they're done sequentially or together. And

414
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 3: it took, frankly about fifteen years for that story to

415
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 3: really unravel and for us to learn how those identifications

416
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 3: were manufactured. So you know, once we began the investigation

417
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 3: into what was really going on, the victims told us

418
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 3: all this information about the identification process. They told us

419
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 3: that they were telling Razuko the whole time they didn't

420
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 3: know if Keith Cooper was really the person. They actually

421
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 3: were like demanding a live lineup to Detective Razuko, saying like,

422
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 3: we want a live lineup because we're not sure, you know,

423
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 3: we don't want to misidentify somebody, and he just kept

424
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 3: telling them, I got the right guy, I got the

425
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 3: right guy. He also told him that he didn't have

426
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 3: enough tall black people in Elkhart to do a live lineup,

427
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 3: which is also a lie.

428
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: It sounds like the basis for probable cause was a

429
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: lie as well. These IDs were not positive ideas and

430
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: the lead up to trial, but Razuko was able to

431
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 1: shore them up later in the meantime leading up to trial,

432
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 1: they had the DNA from the sweatband and the results

433
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 1: came back telling the state definitively that Keith was not

434
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 1: and could not have been involved, which should have put

435
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,360
Speaker 1: an end to this crazy prosecution.

436
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 3: Totally like one hundred percent, but instead the state enters

437
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 3: into this stipulation with this defense attorney that Keith had

438
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 3: saying that if the State Lab analysts were to testify

439
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 3: a trial, she would testify that the hat neither included

440
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 3: nor excluded Keith Cooper from having worn it, and that

441
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 3: is like the opposite of what the actual DNA results say,

442
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 3: which is that like he's excluded from being a contributor

443
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 3: to any of the DNA on the hat.

444
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: I'm planning. It hard to understand why his attorney would

445
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 1: do something so stupid. I mean, did you know that

446
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 1: your attorney was allowing this shit to go on?

447
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 2: No? No, no. When the DNA, I felt confident that

448
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: that's going to be the way I get out. But

449
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 2: the negu the stipulation, which I didn't understand at the

450
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 2: time what the word meant. My lawyer told me that

451
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,959
Speaker 2: when he agreed to that, that it's going to be

452
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 2: into my favor if I agreed to the stipulation. I said, okay, cool.

453
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 3: What ended up having a trial is like you know

454
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 3: is in many of these cases, right, you've got police misconduct,

455
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 3: you've got overzealous prosecutors, you know, they just want to

456
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 3: get a conviction. And he had a defense attorney who

457
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 3: was checked out. Are we going to say his name, Yeah,

458
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 3: Jack's meeting. He did not protect Keith Cooper had trial.

459
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 3: And you know when I say trial like that is

460
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 3: like charitable. This was a half day bench proceeding that

461
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 3: sent Keith to prison wrongfully for a decade of his life.

462
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: It's chilling to think that he said to you. He

463
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 1: was actually being honest, but not in a good way,

464
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: because he said, I'm going to take a bench trial

465
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: so we could get this over with, right he was

466
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 1: he was not. I mean, any lawyer would know that

467
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: you're better off with twelve jurors where you only need

468
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: one to say, hey, this doesn't make any sense.

469
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 2: I thought that way too, But he kept on telling me, saying,

470
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 2: you bet off facing the judge because the judge just

471
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 2: familiar with the laws, and I'll better for you to

472
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 2: do it with this judge and have to go through

473
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 2: the twelve people because the judge know more about your

474
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 2: case than they do. And like I said, I know

475
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: about the system. So I went with what he was

476
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 2: saying because you know, hey, he represented me, but he wasn't.

477
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 2: He was just getting basic. He just wanted me to

478
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 2: cop out.

479
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 1: It seems like that's what the court was greased up

480
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: to do. I don't even understand how the judge could

481
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 1: have allowed that stipulation to come to pass, honestly, But

482
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: everyone seemed on board with just ignoring the clear cut

483
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: evidence of your innocence leading up to trial, except for

484
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: the people who didn't know about the DNA evidence. The eyewitnesses,

485
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: who it seems to me, were probably the only people

486
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: trying to do the right thing here.

487
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 3: Canel Mike Kirshner, They like, were so insistent regarding their

488
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 3: doubts in this identification that Razuka was like, fine, show

489
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 3: up to the courthouse at this time and maybe in

490
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 3: this location, and the date was Keith Cooper's trial, the

491
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 3: location was the hallway, and the time was before the

492
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 3: trial started. And so Razuko has these witnesses lined up

493
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,479
Speaker 3: in the hallway as Keith Cooper is walking up with

494
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 3: his wife and children. And what the witnesses and the

495
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 3: victims say is a Rezuko turned to them and so

496
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 3: that's the guy. That's the guy you're going to go

497
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 3: in there and identify as the shooter. And they did

498
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 3: what the cop told him to do.

499
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: So they trusted the detective that he had the right guy. Meanwhile,

500
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: he knew otherwise all along. In fact, Berzuko, Winn Biggler,

501
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 1: and Ambrose knew that the case was so weak with

502
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 1: the shaky IDs and DNA evidence exonerating Keith, that they

503
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: had to come up with even more bullshit.

504
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 3: So at some point prior to trial, detective Razuko and

505
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 3: Wim Biggler get a jail house informant involved named de

506
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 3: Barry Coleman, and they promised to Barry Coleman as consideration

507
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 3: and fed them information in order to fabricate a statement

508
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 3: alleging that Keith confessed to him when they were incarcerating

509
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 3: together in a trial. One of the remarkable things they

510
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 3: were Marry Coleman actually refused to testify there, and the

511
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 3: judge allowed for a detective to testify to the statement

512
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 3: that he took from the jailhaus informant without any defense

513
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 3: having the ability to cross examine the informant who is

514
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 3: refusing to testify.

515
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: That is off the rails. Everybody who knows anything about

516
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: the law or legal proceedings knows that there can be

517
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: no testimony for either side unless the other side has

518
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: an opportunity to counter it by cross examining the witness.

519
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: I've seen wrongful convictions happen for that reason.

520
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, but apparently like Razuka was like not convinced that

521
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 3: Keith was going to get wrongfully convicted, and so like

522
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 3: he goes out into the hall and gets us witness

523
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 3: Jason Ackley, who was at the time of the shooting

524
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,239
Speaker 3: in the shower, is not in the living room when

525
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 3: the shooting's going on, and he tells Aclee that he

526
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 3: needs them to go in there and identify Cooper's voice

527
00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 3: as the voice that he heard through the walls. Well,

528
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 3: he's showery as the perfid who fire the shot. I mean,

529
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 3: it's the most absurd thing. And so they bring this

530
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 3: guy out from the hallway and they have Keith, you know,

531
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 3: say some ridiculous thing in court, and Actly it's like, oh, yeah,

532
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 3: that's the voice I heard.

533
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: Not only is voice recognition totally unreliable, but for anyone

534
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: who's ever taken a shower, we all know that identifying

535
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: a strange voice over the water through the wall and

536
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,479
Speaker 1: maybe the shower curtain or the glass door and whatever

537
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: else is between you and whatever is going on, This guy,

538
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: actly is totally full of it. So, Keith, you'd watched

539
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: all this go down the eyewitnesses gave positive i DS

540
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: in court, the judge a lot of detectives to read

541
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: in the jailhouse snitch statement after the snitch refused to testify,

542
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: and your defense attorney entered into that DNA stipulation. Hell,

543
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: this is a freaking bench trial. And the judge went

544
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: ahead and allowed that stipulation. I mean, I don't know

545
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: how you could have held out any hope that you'd

546
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: still be acquitted after that.

547
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 2: No, something my body told me, man, I was going

548
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: to perison wh to use the DN neighbor when it

549
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 2: proved that I was innocent that when they said inconclusive,

550
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 2: when they threw that to the side, I knew I

551
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 2: was going to prison. The judge mine was already made

552
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 2: up and we had recess. When we came up to recess,

553
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: I was found gifted. I looked at my turn and

554
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: I said, how you let this happened when the DNA

555
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 2: was there? And he said, but I did what I could.

556
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 2: It's like a little Grimace grens about itself, you know, like, hey,

557
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 2: I did what I can do.

558
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: Wow. I mean, this is really devastating just to hear

559
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: about it, and you had to live through it, and

560
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: then you got taken off the prison, facing forty years

561
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: to life.

562
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 2: During my sentences, I had told my wife she had

563
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 2: to get on with her life. Don't worry about me,

564
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 2: because I can't help her or my three babies. I

565
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 2: have to now worry about having or surviving this prison,

566
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 2: and you have to worry about how you and the

567
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 2: kids going to survive because I don't have no source

568
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 2: of help, and better help myself now this time. So

569
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 2: you know, i'm'a lost the words, and she lost the

570
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 2: words too, cause we both got a journey on our

571
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 2: own now separate ways. All the best value where they

572
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 2: sent me to it was the ride, the long ride

573
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 2: down then that Uh it took its toll on me

574
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 2: cause I had to think about how I was gonna

575
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 2: survive in that prison, and uh they thought about me

576
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 2: not saying my babies again, that was taking the toll.

577
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 2: The close I got to that penitention, the more I

578
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,239
Speaker 2: really I wasn't gonna see my kids, you know. Then

579
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 2: when I got inside the PENITENTI it was I knew

580
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 2: that was gonna be my home for the next forty

581
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 2: years if I lived, And that was scary cause I

582
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: was in a place where I know nobody, nobody, And

583
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: now then I had to deal with the mentality of

584
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: the prison yard. Everybody in there is taking a frustration.

585
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 2: I don't one another, and no matter how you try

586
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 2: to avoid it, you couldn't shake it. It came. It

587
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: always presented itself where you had to knuckle up, you

588
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 2: had to throw your hands, you had to fight. I

589
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 2: was getting tired of people. Man. Every morning, Man, somebody

590
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,479
Speaker 2: manhod is getting tested. It's like, I'm tired of fighting. Man.

591
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 2: I'm gonna end up man actually committing a crime in

592
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: this place, and I know they was going to eventually

593
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: and kill me up in there.

594
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: How did you survive and how did you maintain hope

595
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: in a place that, I mean hope was lost.

596
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 2: I got on my knees and I just prayed. Man,

597
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: I asked God, I asked God's a guy that helped

598
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 2: me get through this year. I wasn't really get in

599
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 2: no help until I got the point in another lawyer,

600
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 2: Radio Pelaski, and he came into my life. That's when

601
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 2: the hope, when everything began change for me. After nine year,

602
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: it took me nine years to see that they're like

603
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 2: you said, man, I looked through your cage I see

604
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 2: with the DNA here, I'm gonna have to redo your DNA.

605
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 3: So you know Keith's case. You know, in the early

606
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 3: two thousands, there was more DNA testing down on the

607
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 3: hat and they were able to run the profile from

608
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 3: thisweatban through the code of database and they got a

609
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 3: hit to a person named Jolana Servant who was convicted

610
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 3: of murder with a similar type weapon in a town

611
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 3: that was less than thirty miles from Elkhart and to

612
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 3: match the description that the witnesses really gave. So when

613
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 3: the system fails and the wrong person goes in, it

614
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 3: fails the victim's family, Keith Cooper and his family. But

615
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 3: here's a situation where like, because the detectives went so

616
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 3: far out of their way to put an innocent guy

617
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 3: in prison, the real perpetrator not only stayed free, but

618
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 3: he actually committed another murder. They had actually done their

619
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 3: job originally, maybe they could have prevented that. So when

620
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 3: the hit happened, Keith was litigating a post conviction petition

621
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 3: and the judge gave Keith's attorney, who is at the

622
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,479
Speaker 3: Public Defender's Office, and Keith a choice either he will

623
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 3: grant a new trial, and at that point, the defense

624
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 3: attorney who was representing Keith. You know, these victims, you know,

625
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 3: they were identifying Keith for all he knew, you know,

626
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 3: he didn't talk to them, and there was some fear

627
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 3: by the attorney that Keith could get re wrongfully convicted

628
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 3: or the offer that was presented is that the state

629
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 3: would modify Keith's sentence on the wrongful conviction to time

630
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 3: serve so that he could go home to his family.

631
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 2: I want to go home because I had got a

632
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 2: letter from my sister telling me that my family was

633
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 2: living in the shelter, and that was what made me

634
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 2: really won't understand that paper maps I can come home

635
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 2: because I didn't want my people living in the shell,

636
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 2: especially my little daughter, because I was locked up with

637
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 2: the perverted guy. As you hear, they tell their stories

638
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,720
Speaker 2: how they find to get their victims, and that made

639
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 2: me realize, Man, I need to get a body history

640
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: as fast as possible.

641
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: That's a sophie's choice. You know, Yes, you get to

642
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 1: go home to your family, but you get to live

643
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: for the rest of your life as a convicted violent felon,

644
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: you know, Or of course you have to go back

645
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: to jail await trial in a hellish place, which could

646
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: take years to get back to another trial. And then

647
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: you've already seen the worst of what the system has

648
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: to offer, and you know they're capable of faming and

649
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: they can just do it again. So who would want

650
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: to have to make that choice? I think for someone

651
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: in Keith's position in Elkhart, Indiana at that time, it

652
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,439
Speaker 1: was probably the only only rational choice to make.

653
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 2: When I got out in two thousand and six, my

654
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 2: kids didn't even know who I was, and I bet

655
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 2: they recognized them because they had grew up. It was

656
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 2: teenagers now, they was just little babies when I went

657
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 2: into that, you know, being raised without me and their life.

658
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 2: He had some little resentments that I had to deal with.

659
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 2: I had to let them know it wasn't like I

660
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 2: just walked out your life. I was kidnapped. They took

661
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 2: me out from y'all, you know. So there was a

662
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 2: hard pill for all of us to swallow. Whom we

663
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 2: got reunited.

664
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: This is something that will have a lasting impact on

665
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: them for as long as they live. Right, the children

666
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: need their dad, they need their parents.

667
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 2: And be all right now. I mean, I'm so happy

668
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 2: I got my grandkids around me. They keep me motivated.

669
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 2: You know, I might have missed out on raising my

670
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 2: own kids, but at least my kids give me the

671
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 2: luxury of raising their children. So I'm grateful.

672
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 1: What do they call you? They call you Grandpa, grabs

673
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: pop pap, or they call you.

674
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 2: They call me Paul, Paul. They love they Paupaul.

675
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 1: That's great, And I understand you got remarried as well,

676
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: to your wife, Nicole Slaton Cooper in twenty ten.

677
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 2: Oh. I love my wife. She's beautiful. She's been very

678
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 2: supportive of me. And the personal I got to get

679
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 2: high honors to is God first. Then my lawyer fly

680
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 2: brother's last frame. Yeah, Ellis. So when he stepped that

681
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: came to my life. I was given. Man. I knew

682
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 2: I had a chance man to make things right.

683
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 3: So, you know, I learned about Keith Cooper when I

684
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: was investigating the case of his co defend at Christopher Pierrish,

685
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 3: who had already been exonerated. You know, he was in

686
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 3: the middle of a civil lawsuit. I was like, not

687
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 3: even in law school yet. When I was working on

688
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 3: that as an investigator, and when I talked to the

689
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 3: victims and they told me what Detective rzuco really did

690
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 3: to get these false identifications. You know, I went back

691
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 3: to the firm to my boss and I was like, Chad,

692
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 3: Keith Cooper is super innocent, and these people all feel

693
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 3: terrible that they ripped his life away. We've got to

694
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 3: We've got to tell him. So I met Keith that

695
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 3: way and ended up, you know, promising him, you know

696
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 3: that we would do everything that we can to help

697
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 3: him get his name back.

698
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 1: Since your investigation of Keith case really began with Chris

699
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: Parrish's case, we need to revisit what that investigation and

700
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 1: the civil suit uncovered. Now he filed the wrongful conviction

701
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: lawsuit in twenty ten, so take us through that.

702
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 3: During Parish's civil lawsuit, Keith Cooper's wrongful conviction unraveled, the

703
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 3: eyewitnesses revealed that they were manipulated into misidentifying Keith Cooper

704
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 3: the joehas informant to Barry Coleman. You know, he refused

705
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 3: to testify trial, right, So Coleman you know, revealed like, hey, yeah,

706
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 3: I didn't testify trial because A it was false and

707
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 3: B they didn't satisfy their promises to me, and I

708
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 3: wasn't going through with it. I wasn't going to let

709
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 3: them give me up there to put an incant guy

710
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 3: in prison. Jason Ackley, the guy in the shower, testified

711
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 3: that Detective Verzuko was out in the hallway and just

712
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 3: told him what to do, and he would do anything

713
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,879
Speaker 3: to help Detective Razuko and you know, the family get

714
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 3: a conviction. So he was just doing what Razuko said.

715
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: Parish presented evidence that a Kirsha was shot in the

716
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: parking lot outside the building and about it because he

717
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: said it was in the apartment because he was on

718
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: home detention for a gun charge. So that's a bombshell

719
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: right there. Okay, then Love testify the police coerced him

720
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: to identify Parish. DNA test conducted after the trial, and

721
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: the hat showed not Keith Cooper, of course, but as

722
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: you said, DNA of a man named Jolanis Irvin who

723
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: was later convicted of murder.

724
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,959
Speaker 3: It would later be proven that Detective Razuko, the same

725
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 3: guy who was telling the eyewitnesses who to select in

726
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 3: the hallway with Keith Cooper, was using a child photo

727
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 3: of Chris Parrish so that they knew who to identify

728
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,479
Speaker 3: and his arrays. And then Razuko would later admit under

729
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 3: oath that when he watched Chris Parrish's trial, this frame

730
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 3: job that he like orchestrated, and he admitted in the deposition,

731
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 3: like they convinced me. I thought they were going to

732
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 3: find him not guilty.

733
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, the state's case had been laid to waste. Right,

734
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,240
Speaker 1: it was just laying there in tatters. And there's still

735
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: so much more that was revealed, and we'll get to

736
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: that in a minute. But Keith's best shot at Exander

737
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: was an actual innocence pardon from the governor. And this

738
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 1: was Governor Pence at the time, and it was filed

739
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: in like twenty thirteen, Right, wasn't he released in two

740
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: thousand and six?

741
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 3: In Indiana? They had this real antiquated rule at the

742
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 3: time where if you had been released from prison, then

743
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 3: you had to wait five years to file a pardon

744
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 3: our parle application.

745
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: So all of this information had already been accumulated. No

746
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: one could deny his innocence. They couldn't have back in

747
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, even though they would have tried.

748
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: But now he's out and ready for the fight. So

749
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: this goes in front of the Pardon and Parole Board

750
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: and there's an even better case made for then Governor

751
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 1: Pence to do the right thing. Here.

752
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 3: What's remarkable is that the part of parle board did

753
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:47,240
Speaker 3: a unanimist recommendation. They recommended the actual innocence pardon the victim.

754
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 3: Michael Kershner testified on Keith Cooper's behalf, apologized to him,

755
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 3: told him what Detective Razuko did, you know, begged the

756
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 3: part and parle board to do the right thing, beg

757
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 3: the governor to do the right thing. A number of

758
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 3: other people gave statements, and probably you know, the most

759
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,760
Speaker 3: critical thing was a letter from the trial prosecutor who's

760
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 3: now a judge, an Elk Card, Judge Christefino. It was

761
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 3: a letter directed from the trial prosecutor to Governor Pence,

762
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 3: and in the letter, mister Cristeffino admitted that the evidence

763
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 3: available to the State of Indiana at this time exonerates

764
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 3: Keith Cooper, and justice demands that mister Cooper be pardoned.

765
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 3: As an attorney, he begged the governor to undo Keith

766
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 3: Cooper's tragic, wrongful conviction. And then Pence sat on this

767
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 3: thing for years and instead, once he got nominated by Trump,

768
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 3: they wrote a public letter that they submitted to the

769
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 3: press saying that the governor wasn't going to act on

770
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 3: the actual instance pardon even though it was bored, unanimously

771
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 3: recommended that it be granted, and telling Keith Cooper to

772
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 3: go back to court and file a post viction petition.

773
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,479
Speaker 3: And we went back to court, we filed the post

774
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 3: conviction petition. We were going to call the bluff. What

775
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 3: ended up happening is Keith's case became a political issue

776
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 3: and a civil rights issue in Indiana. During the gubernatorial election,

777
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 3: there was even a debate where the candidates were each

778
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 3: asked the question, will you parting Keith Cooper in your

779
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 3: first three days in office? That is how like big

780
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 3: this guy? And so the momentum could not be stopped.

781
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 2: I felt like a celebrity. I tell you that God

782
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 2: is good. Hey he put me out there when I

783
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 2: heard that part. And I was at work on a

784
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 2: forklift truck loading the FAED except and one of my

785
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,760
Speaker 2: guys ran on the back of the truck. He said, Keith,

786
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 2: you've just been pawned. I didn't know. He said, man,

787
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 2: you gave me pint. I thought it was a game

788
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 2: he was just going to play. If I say, man, got

789
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: time for them, I'm loading this truck. Let me work.

790
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 2: He said, come and look, and I look. There was

791
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: every hope and pardoned Keith Cooper and then I couldn't

792
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 2: do nothing. Man, But as a man, I tried to

793
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 2: hold back my feelings, but the tear just just flooded.

794
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: And Uh, everybody on my job, they was all happy

795
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 2: because they had the word that got out and on Uh,

796
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,760
Speaker 2: I had to leave work. I was suicided. I was free.

797
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 2: I went home and and just got on my knees

798
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 2: a minute, just let it all. I just tears are

799
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 2: just overwhelming, and they were just flooding the revers with

800
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 2: my eyes. Man, I couldn't stop. And I was thankful

801
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 2: because it was like a dream had just come true

802
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 2: for me. The burden, all that weight there was, all

803
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 2: my chests is just a thousand pounds were just lifted

804
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 2: off my chest, man, and I was free. My name

805
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: was cleared, and I made history in the state of Indiana.

806
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 3: The person who ultimately won that election, Governor Eric Holcombe,

807
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 3: who was the lieutenant governor two Pence. Like this is

808
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 3: somebody who was on Pence's ticket previously, and within his

809
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 3: first thirty days in office, he granted Keith Cooper, the

810
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 3: State of Indiana's only ever actual innocence part.

811
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 2: It's incredible.

812
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 1: Finally now comes the good stuff. Right now you get

813
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: to take these people to task. So, of course, in

814
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: November twenty nineteen, Keith filed the federal lawsuit against the

815
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: City of Elkhart and four of its police officers. What

816
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 1: did you learn during the civil proceedings, because this is

817
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:29,959
Speaker 1: this is deep.

818
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, we ended up filing the civil lawsuit, you know,

819
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 3: as a federal lawsuit on behalf of Keith Cooper. We

820
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 3: sued Detective Razukodwynn Bigler, A Ambrose, and the City of Elkhart,

821
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 3: and that civil lawsuit unraveled what is going to be

822
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 3: decades of exonerations people who were wrongfully convicted, just like

823
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 3: Keith was. We ended up on covering these internal affairs

824
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 3: files that were never disclosed to Keith Cooper prior to

825
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 3: his trial in a parish's civil lawsuit. So like, not

826
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 3: only was this stuff withheld on the criminal side from

827
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 3: both of them, but like the City of Belcart literally

828
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 3: litigated an entire lawsuit without turning it over, which is shocking.

829
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 3: But those internal affairs files showed two different internal affairs

830
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 3: investigations into Detective Verzuko, one in nineteen ninety six before

831
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 3: Keith Cooper was ever wrongfully convicted, and another one in

832
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 3: two thousand and one, and the nineteen ninety six I investigation,

833
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:36,240
Speaker 3: Detective Razuko admitted to paying an informant for sexual acts

834
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 3: and she was used as a witness in a homicide investigation.

835
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 3: Admitted to that, and the only thing that the department

836
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 3: did was take away three of his vacation days. And

837
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 3: in two thousand and one, Detective Verzuko was caught in

838
00:45:54,880 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 3: another internal affairs investigation prompted by other law enforcement. He's

839
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 3: coming into Elkhart and saying, we have evidence showing what

840
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 3: your detective is doing paying informants and prostitutes for sexual

841
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 3: interactions dating back to nineteen ninety four. Like, we have

842
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 3: affidavits from these women who he was sexually assaulting, right, Like,

843
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 3: there's no actual consent here when it's a law enforcement

844
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 3: officer with a badge and a gun, Like, they don't

845
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 3: really have a choice. But he was not only paying

846
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 3: them for sexual interactions, but he was then fabricating statements

847
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 3: for them to falsely implicate people in crimes, including murder.

848
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 3: These people were going on the stand and testifying to

849
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 3: frame innocent people like Keith Cooper. They ultimately sustained an

850
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 3: allegation of malfeasans against him, which by definition is a

851
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 3: criminal act, and he was allowed to resign and then

852
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 3: get this. Between the time that the malfeasans finding happened

853
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 3: and his resignation, a supervisor of his at the Elkcar

854
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 3: Police Department and a supervisor in the Yolker Kennedy Prosecutor

855
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 3: Office literally wrote letters of recommendation on letterhead to a

856
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 3: different law enforcement agency so that he could get hired.

857
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 3: And then the chief of police went to the Board

858
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 3: of Public Safety and thanked Razuko for his years of

859
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 3: public service. Like nobody knew about it. They buried it,

860
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 3: all these people that he helped frame for crimes that

861
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 3: he commit, a lot of clients in ours who were

862
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 3: still wrongfully in prison, and then they buried it. And

863
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 3: then Elkhart allowed Rezuko even after he resigned with this

864
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,720
Speaker 3: malfeasans finding, they were allowing him to testify in criminal

865
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 3: cases like even murder trials without ever disclosing it to

866
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 3: the defense for years. And we uncovered that, we uncovered

867
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 3: a ton of other misconduct and exculpatory information that was withheld,

868
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 3: and we ultimately filed avotion for sanctions against Detective Razuko

869
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 3: for committing perjury and withholding evidence, including dating back to

870
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 3: the parish lawsuit, and we sent him written discovery request

871
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 3: that was like, maybe every informant you ever had, tell

872
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 3: us the name of every informant you ever had sexual

873
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 3: interactions with. Tell us the name of every informant you

874
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 3: had sexual interactions with that you use as a witness

875
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:15,280
Speaker 3: in a criminal investigation. And the night before his response

876
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 3: to the sanctions was due, and the night before his

877
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 3: written discovery responses was due, he committed suicide.

878
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 2: Wow.

879
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sorry for his family, but the fact

880
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: is that everyone's safer with him not being in a

881
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: position to hurt other people and abuse his power. You know, again,

882
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 1: I wish it was the only time I'd heard a

883
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: story like that. You know, the Pippo and Krevac case

884
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: in Westchester had similar levels of police criminality. And then

885
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 1: there's that horrible cop in Kansas City from the Lamont

886
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 1: McIntyre case and so many others. You know that what

887
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: I'm talking about, Yeah, yeah, Glubski, Jesus Christ.

888
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,760
Speaker 3: There's one more wild thing Jason that our law stud uncovered,

889
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 3: you know, the detective who assisted Razuko and Fabricaine at

890
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 3: Joha's informant statement at Win Bigler. He would later rise

891
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 3: to the ranks of chief of police, Like he was

892
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 3: chief of police in Elkhart through twenty eighteen. Like, this

893
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 3: isn't even something that happened decades ago. And what we

894
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 3: uncovered in Keith Cooper's civil lawsuit was that in the

895
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 3: nineteen nineties there was a group of white officers in

896
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 3: the Elkhart Police Department who refer to themselves as the Wolverines.

897
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 3: Like people in the department have testified about this. Everybody

898
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 3: up to the mayor has testified that they knew about

899
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 3: the existence of this group existing within the department, And

900
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 3: people have testified that the Wolverines originated. The name originated

901
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 3: from this movie called Red Dawn from the nineteen eighties,

902
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 3: which is real timely given what's going on with Russia

903
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 3: and Red don was premised on this theme that a

904
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 3: group of white suburban teenagers would resort to gorilla war

905
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 3: in order to keep invaders out of their community. And

906
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 3: these officers apparently saw people of color as invaders of

907
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:15,280
Speaker 3: their community and resorted to police abuse, police misconduct, framing

908
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 3: innocent people, and mister Winbigler actually has admitted under oath

909
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 3: to being associated with this group. And so the existence

910
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 3: of the Wolverines is going to further unravel Elkhart's epidemic

911
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 3: with wrongful convictions because those officers, time and time again

912
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 3: have been implicated in framing other innocent people for crime sed.

913
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 1: Incommit I hate to say, but it's almost like the

914
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: Catholic Church. You know, you go to whichever city you

915
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: go to, and you hear stories like this. We hear

916
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: it day in and day out here as we interview

917
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 1: people like Keith who've been through this. So since you've

918
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 1: pursued civil litigation Indiana, that means you've forfeited the right

919
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: to state compensation. But aren't you glad you did, because

920
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 1: after hearing all the things that Elliott has been able

921
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: to uncover here, which is nothing short of incredible by

922
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: the way, you were able to win your civil suit.

923
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: I mean, he really drew out the truth here and

924
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: no one could hide from it.

925
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 2: The truth never changed no matter how long it takes,

926
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 2: the truth always remained the same. I favored my truth,

927
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 2: and God pabil they could say whatever they want to say,

928
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 2: and then God Pavel and he's not done with Elcot either.

929
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 2: A whole lot of truth for the come out of

930
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 2: al cut Yes, sir hey man.

931
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: So we have a tradition here wrongful conviction. It's called

932
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: closing arguments. It's how we close the show, and it

933
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: works like this. First of all, I thank each of

934
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: you guys for being here and sharing this truly incredible story.

935
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: And then I'm going to turn my microphone off, kick

936
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: back in my chair, put my headphones on, and just

937
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 1: listen to anything else you want to share with me

938
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: and our incredible audience. Elliott, let's let you go first,

939
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: tell us what's on your mind, and then Keith can

940
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: take us out.

941
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 3: The epidemic in Elkhart is only beginning to unravel. Yeah,

942
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 3: there are so many other Keith Coopers who continue to

943
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 3: be wrongfully incarcerated, whether they were framed by Detective Razuko

944
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 3: or other members of the Alkar Police Department. But one

945
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:29,240
Speaker 3: thing that Keith did through his fight over the past

946
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 3: twenty six years, it shine a light on a community

947
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:44,800
Speaker 3: that was riddled with police and proscatorial misconduct. And Keith,

948
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 3: through shining that life will be the main reason why

949
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 3: so many other wrongfully convicted people will be set free. Recently,

950
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 3: in seven point five million days different ways, the city

951
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 3: of Elkhart acknowledge the egregious wrong in suffering that happened

952
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 3: to Keith Cooper. And it's no coincidence that Keith received

953
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 3: the largest wrongful conviction settlement in the state of Indiana.

954
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 3: That settlement is a result of everything that Keith On

955
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 3: earthed and that the city of Elkhot did not want

956
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 3: a jury to hear. So while Keith's story is heartbreaking

957
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 3: and tragic and so preventable, you'll be hearing about a

958
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 3: lot of other Keith Cooper's being set free from Elkhart

959
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 3: in the years to come.

960
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 2: I just want to let people know, man, that the

961
00:53:56,080 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 2: justice system can be fixed, and there's people are here

962
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 2: that's working every day to see that folks like myself

963
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 2: that a rawfully convicted do have a chance to get

964
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 2: out because there's people out here working and they're looking

965
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 2: into cases and they digging up the dirt on these wrongful,

966
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 2: unlawful police prosecutors, even states attorneys and even the judges.

967
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 2: They come in after them a loan as they keep

968
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 2: they hope and stay in their faith. Whatever they faith

969
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 2: may be, stay with it because God gonna send these

970
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 2: folks around here. These people say out here to help,

971
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 2: and I learned it. That's what I close.

972
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to

973
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 1: thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Clyburn, and Kevin Warnis,

974
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: with research by Lyla Robinson. The music in this production

975
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 1: was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

976
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,

977
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at

978
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 1: wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On

979
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 1: all three platforms, you can also follow me on both

980
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: TikTok and Instagram at it's Jason Flam. Wrongful Conviction is

981
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,319
Speaker 1: the production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with

982
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 1: Signal Company Number one