Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2: Hi everyone, welcome to the deal. I'm your host, Jason
Speaker 2: Kelly longside my partner Alex Rodriguez.
Speaker 3: All right, Alex, we're gonna talk some baseball.
Speaker 2: I have to say, this has been a really fun
Speaker 2: early twenty twenty five, you know, so to spring up
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. I feel like we're diving into baseball
Speaker 2: in a really meaningful way, which kind of makes sense
Speaker 2: since you played the game pretty well. But one of
Speaker 2: the great things about the show is the access that
Speaker 2: you bring to some people who might be a little
Speaker 2: less known but are incredibly important. Gene Aferman is one
Speaker 2: of those people, assistant general manager for the Yankees. Help
Speaker 2: us understand before we get into the conversation who she is.
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, what I think she's a person
Speaker 4: that should be in the Hall of Fame. And I
Speaker 4: say that because she's been assistant general manager to Brian
Speaker 4: Cashman for over twenty plus years. And you know, give
Speaker 4: credit to the late George Steinbernner for bringing in a
Speaker 4: strong woman who's a lawyer, an incredible asset to the
Speaker 4: New York Yankees. And this episode, Jason was special to
Speaker 4: me because I'm so close to Jean and we've been
Speaker 4: through so much highs and lows, and she was always
Speaker 4: the voice of reason in that organization. And while she
Speaker 4: never put up with any bs, she was always like
Speaker 4: so transparent and so honest, And so you will hear
Speaker 4: that in our episode.
Speaker 3: Oh take no prisoners for sure.
Speaker 4: I mean.
Speaker 2: One of the interesting things about her, and one of
Speaker 2: the really timely elements to this is back in the nineties,
Speaker 2: she was really early on in identifying the potential for
Speaker 2: the business of baseball in Japan. We now take that
Speaker 2: pretty much for granted. We have a generational player that
Speaker 2: we're all getting to watch in Shohyo Tani. She was
Speaker 2: on that story law long long ago, and I feel
Speaker 2: like given some of your experience as a player, some
Speaker 2: of your more recent experience as a businessman, you appreciate
Speaker 2: sort of this nexus of baseball in Japan.
Speaker 3: You were just there not too long ago, right, a
Speaker 3: few months back.
Speaker 4: I was. I was there and it was my third
Speaker 4: time in Japan, and it was the time that I
Speaker 4: actually enjoyed it the most because I didn't have the
Speaker 4: burden too having to go play and be focused on that.
Speaker 4: But the two prior times Gene Afferman was on both trips.
Speaker 4: One was a nineteen ninety six trip for Major League
Speaker 4: Baseball All Star that we would go every other year,
Speaker 4: and in that team we had Ky Ripken, we had
Speaker 4: Barry Bonds and Roberto Allen. It was this phenomenal team
Speaker 4: and a great experience. The second time we went back
Speaker 4: was two thousand and four with the Yankees, and we
Speaker 4: had a special sauce and that special sauce was Gene
Speaker 4: Afferman because she was like our super Asian yet she
Speaker 4: was kind of like lead counsel for us. And she
Speaker 4: was also very close with Hideki Matsui, was very influential
Speaker 4: from bringing he Deki Matsui to come to the Yankees,
Speaker 4: who of course won the d VP when won the
Speaker 4: Tighter in two thousand and nine against the Phillies. And
Speaker 4: Gene Afferman was basically fun and center and she ran
Speaker 4: point for basically both those trips, but especially for the
Speaker 4: Yankees in two thousand and four when we opened against
Speaker 4: the Race.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just incredible sort of what she's seen and
Speaker 2: you know, some of what folks will hear that was
Speaker 2: newer to me of course, or new to me, not
Speaker 2: as new to you as some of the you know,
Speaker 2: quite literal.
Speaker 3: Inside baseball, what it's like inside.
Speaker 2: I mean, truly the most iconic baseball franchise of all time,
Speaker 2: led by the most iconic owner of all time, George Steinbrenner,
Speaker 2: the Boss.
Speaker 4: Yeah, indeed. And you know, I had a really interesting
Speaker 4: moment when my daughter Natasha, who was around you know,
Speaker 4: call it seven years old, when she met Jean. She
Speaker 4: was like, oh, that's nice. What does she do? And
Speaker 4: I said, well, she works for the Yankees and she's
Speaker 4: the assistant general manager of Brian Cashman. She goes, wait,
Speaker 4: I'm confused, but she's a woman. Wow, And I said, no,
Speaker 4: that's exactly right, Like you can do this one day too.
Speaker 4: I mean, Gene Afferman is showing you and millions of
Speaker 4: young ladies around the world that you two can do it.
Speaker 4: So that's why I think someone like Gene Afferman is
Speaker 4: not just that she's an executive. She was first an agent,
Speaker 4: pivoted to being a top executive, one of the highest
Speaker 4: top executives for the New York Yankees, and did it
Speaker 4: flawlessly over two and a half three decades. And that's
Speaker 4: why I feel that she has a place in Cooperstown.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, from your lips to Cooper's down's ears. We'll see
Speaker 2: if that turns out to be true. And in the meantime,
Speaker 2: I can say it is a highly enjoyable and pretty
Speaker 2: insightful conversation coming up with Gene Afferman. So joining us
Speaker 2: now is Gene Affman. She is the Yankees assistant general manager.
Speaker 2: And I have to say, Gene, one of the real
Speaker 2: benefits of working with Alex Rodriguez. There are many, but
Speaker 2: one of them is he knows where the real power
Speaker 2: is and that is the truth when it comes to you.
Speaker 2: So I will start by asking you this, and I
Speaker 2: asked this of all the folks who worked around the Yankees,
Speaker 2: do you remember first meeting Alex Trader Guest?
Speaker 1: Oh, I certainly do. I certainly do. And I didn't
Speaker 1: mean to goffa.
Speaker 5: I wasn't goafawing at Alex because he does know where
Speaker 5: all the power is.
Speaker 1: When I was defawing at you know that I'm the power.
Speaker 5: Actually, Alex, you and I met way back in the
Speaker 5: last century. Was it ninety five or ninety six on
Speaker 5: a plane across the Pacific.
Speaker 1: Ocean too Japan?
Speaker 3: Wow? Wow, Yes, I was, And.
Speaker 5: You were just a cult You were a wee baby.
Speaker 5: You were sitting in back of me. I was Hideo
Speaker 5: Nomo's guest.
Speaker 1: And do you remember it was the US Japan all.
Speaker 4: Start, yeah, with the Ripken and Barry Bonds.
Speaker 1: Yes, was that your rookie season.
Speaker 4: It was right after my official rookie season in ninety six,
Speaker 4: going to ninety seven. I believe so all the.
Speaker 5: Like Piazza and Bonds and Ripken, they all were sitting.
Speaker 5: It was a charter and they're all sitting in first
Speaker 5: class and you had to sitting back with the schleppers
Speaker 5: us when you were sitting writing back of me, I
Speaker 5: think I was with Brian Gray, who was with it
Speaker 5: major League Baseball. We had a great time. That was
Speaker 5: an incredible trip. That's when I first met Alex Rodriguez.
Speaker 3: And so, Alex, what was your first impression of Gene?
Speaker 4: My first impression with Gene was was when I got
Speaker 4: to the Yankees, and I knew of Gene of course before,
Speaker 4: but I would I would say our friendship and our
Speaker 4: professional relationship also started in two thousand and four when
Speaker 4: I got there, and I quickly realized that every big
Speaker 4: decision Gene would be right in the middle of it,
Speaker 4: and whether it was like writing great documents. I mean
Speaker 4: one of her head into gems is she's an amazing writer,
Speaker 4: and she does most of the writing from the Yankees.
Speaker 4: As I remember, she had a voice of reason. She
Speaker 4: was always supportive, she wouldn't put up with any bs,
Speaker 4: but she was always came from a loving place, and
Speaker 4: anytime there was something important with the Yankees, I felt
Speaker 4: like Jean was a voice of reason.
Speaker 1: Well, my standard response to me, oh pshaw.
Speaker 2: So it's interesting that you mentioned Japan because incredibly timely
Speaker 2: for what's going on in baseball right now.
Speaker 3: It was big back then.
Speaker 2: It has just blossomed into something that I'm maybe you
Speaker 2: expected at the time, maybe you didn't, And maybe that's
Speaker 2: where to start. You've seen this for a long time,
Speaker 2: this connection between Major League Baseball and Japan, the sport
Speaker 2: of baseball in Japan.
Speaker 3: What's the state of it now?
Speaker 5: Well, that's over thirty years ago. I keep thinking, you know,
Speaker 5: way back in the last century. Over thirty years ago
Speaker 5: was when Don Nomura, an incredible agent with whom I worked.
Speaker 5: He's my comrade in arms, and we represented Hedeo Nomo together,
Speaker 5: and then Alfonso Soriano and Hideki Rabu and we kind
Speaker 5: of were sort of the steps along the way I
Speaker 5: think to where we are now. And I know that
Speaker 5: sounds arrogant, but those are my you know, my fighting days.
Speaker 1: I love them. But you know.
Speaker 5: Originally there was an agreement I think signed in nineteen
Speaker 5: sixty seven. I think that effectively prohibited Japanese players from
Speaker 5: coming to the United States. I mean players would go
Speaker 5: over to Japan all the time, but no Japanese players.
Speaker 5: Murkami came in the late sixties, but since then there
Speaker 5: really hadn't been anybody. So Don and Ire began working
Speaker 5: together because as a newly minted lawyer, when he told
Speaker 5: me that there were no Japanese players allowed in the US,
Speaker 5: I thought, well, that can't be legal.
Speaker 1: So the way that.
Speaker 5: The Japanese rules and the US rules worked back then
Speaker 5: was there were all these Swiss cheese holes in the
Speaker 5: way they lined up, So we just like do what
Speaker 5: we could to drive a mac truck through all those holes.
Speaker 5: The first one was Nomo, and under the Yakyo kiyaku,
Speaker 5: which is the Japanese rules, if a player voluntarily retires,
Speaker 5: he can sign with a US club. So we voluntarily
Speaker 5: retired Nomo and he came over here, and there really
Speaker 5: wasn't that much of an uproar over it. The Japanese
Speaker 5: Commissioner's office didn't really fight us, and the US Commissioner's
Speaker 5: office didn't really fight us because nobody thought Japanese.
Speaker 1: Players would have any success over here.
Speaker 5: So they thought, oh, well, Nomo will come over here,
Speaker 5: there'll be a little distraction, and then he'll just go
Speaker 5: right back to Japan. And then, of course Nomo was
Speaker 5: phenomenal here, and so then, Alex, you know this, Once
Speaker 5: there's success with either a Japanese pitcher or a Cuban pitcher,
Speaker 5: the pendulum swings and everybody thinks that every single Japanese
Speaker 5: player is going to be Nomo. So other players wanted
Speaker 5: to come to the United States. And after Nomo, they
Speaker 5: changed the rules so that you couldn't do that.
Speaker 1: And the way you could do it under their rules
Speaker 1: was Soriano, who Alex knew. Soriano could go.
Speaker 5: To salary arbitration lose his salary arbitration in Japan because
Speaker 5: their rules at that time were like US rules from
Speaker 5: the forties. The arbitration would be heard by the commissioner
Speaker 5: and the two presidents of the league, and if the
Speaker 5: player lost and didn't accept the salary that was offered,
Speaker 5: they would voluntarily retire him as a punitive measure. It
Speaker 5: was a punishment for not accepting the salary. So we
Speaker 5: went to salary arbitration. We asked for a very reasonable amount.
Speaker 5: Of course, we lost, and then we said not going
Speaker 5: to accept the salary, and sure enough, boom, they voluntarily
Speaker 5: retired him.
Speaker 1: So that's how he came.
Speaker 4: Over, So Jane, thinking about how integral and how closely
Speaker 4: you worked with Hideki to get him over to New York.
Speaker 4: Obviously an integral part of our championship team in two
Speaker 4: thousand and nine he won the world title. What was
Speaker 4: it specifically when you first met Hideki, probably back in
Speaker 4: Japan that made you think that he had the talent
Speaker 4: and he also had the maturity to play in New
Speaker 4: York because you know it's different in New York, and
Speaker 4: then basically the poise to do what he did. Was
Speaker 4: there anything that stood out to you from his character?
Speaker 3: Just did her out?
Speaker 2: Briefly for those of us who aren't on a first
Speaker 2: name basis, we're talking about Hitdeki Metsui.
Speaker 3: Just for everyone out there, sorry.
Speaker 5: There also was Hideki Rabu, who was the start of
Speaker 5: the posting system. But actually Matsui I didn't meet him,
Speaker 5: but he is one of the reasons why I actually
Speaker 5: got started in US Japanese baseball. When I was over
Speaker 5: there on an unrelated case, Don took me to a
Speaker 5: Yumiri Giants baseball game, and I think that was Matsui's
Speaker 5: probably his rookie year, and there was I still remember
Speaker 5: standing at the plate stick straight up alex As you remember,
Speaker 5: the stick was always straight up and boom, And that's
Speaker 5: where I said to Don, how come there aren't more
Speaker 5: Japanese players playing here? And with Matsui, he waited the
Speaker 5: ten years that they wait for free agency in Japan.
Speaker 5: So I waited the ten years and the Yumiri Giants
Speaker 5: were I mean, they say the Yankees of Japan huge,
Speaker 5: absolutely huge, And Tokyo is just like New York. It's
Speaker 5: a huge market, and the Yomurri Shimbun is the paper there.
Speaker 5: They have the largest distribution in all of Asia. So
Speaker 5: he was used to it. He was used to New York,
Speaker 5: he was used to the pressure, he was used to
Speaker 5: playing on a championship team, and he had he had
Speaker 5: the skills. So I mean, the minute you saw him,
Speaker 5: you just new and also I had heard that Babe
Speaker 5: Ruth had been his favorite player, so I thought we
Speaker 5: had a chance.
Speaker 3: You leaned into that.
Speaker 2: Alex, what do you I mean, what do you remember
Speaker 2: about Matsui? I mean, you know, as you say, that
Speaker 2: was transformational. I mean, Mattsui is obviously transformative to the
Speaker 2: baseball of the team, but I would think, and Alex,
Speaker 2: I'll start with you, he's also transformative to the business
Speaker 2: and the fan base and every like. It globalizes the
Speaker 2: Yankees even more. Could you feel that as a player out?
Speaker 4: Oh, there's no question about it. Jason. Look, I mean
Speaker 4: before I answer that, let me back up a little bit,
Speaker 4: because for our listeners, baseball in Japan is huge. And
Speaker 4: what I mean by huge is think about American football
Speaker 4: here times five.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 4: It's almost like a monopoly in sports. It is a religion.
Speaker 4: They take it very, very seriously. I was just there
Speaker 4: a few months ago in Japan, and I could not
Speaker 4: believe how much buzz there is Ronald Tani, the Yankees,
Speaker 4: the Dodgers, the Cubs. Going there of course with the Cubs.
Speaker 4: But Jason, answer your question about DECI I learned there
Speaker 4: so much from him. He was so disciplined, absolutely like
Speaker 4: so consistent with his personality. And then one thing that's
Speaker 4: unusual for our listeners to know. He was more like
Speaker 4: an American. He was really big. He was large, He
Speaker 4: had big, big shoulders, he had strong hands. And usually
Speaker 4: what we've come accustomed to Japanese players back in the
Speaker 4: day was a little bit smaller middle endfielder, a little
Speaker 4: bit more like each row right, each row, And here
Speaker 4: comes to Deki Matu. He was favorite players, you know,
Speaker 4: the great Babe Ruth and the rest is history. And
Speaker 4: I'll tell you in two thousand and nine he was
Speaker 4: so good. I'll never forget Gene. I never told you this.
Speaker 4: Right before Game six, we're sitting in the training room,
Speaker 4: about an hour before the game, Andy pettit's on the mound.
Speaker 4: We need one more win to be World champions. And
Speaker 4: I wasn't seeing the ball very well off Page Martinez.
Speaker 4: And it's about an hour before the game, and I
Speaker 4: have Jeene taping my ankles and he's taeping his ankles
Speaker 4: Stevie Donald, he was taping his ankles or two trainers
Speaker 4: with the Yankees, And I said, what's your game plan? Mantsoui,
Speaker 4: And he says, I have a good game plan. I said,
Speaker 4: I don't I don't see the ball very well off
Speaker 4: Pedro Martinez. I said, how do you see it? He says,
Speaker 4: I see it really, really large. And it was at
Speaker 4: that moment that I changed my game plan to say,
Speaker 4: Matsui's behind me, he sees the ball. Great, I don't
Speaker 4: see the ball well, off Pedro. What I'm going to
Speaker 4: do is I'm going to be as patient as possible
Speaker 4: and try to pass the baton to the guy who
Speaker 4: sees the ball really well. And sure enough, I think
Speaker 4: I walked three times, score three runs, and twice from
Speaker 4: Matsui on a home run in a double wow, and
Speaker 4: the rest is history.
Speaker 5: Can I just say that, Alex, you played a pretty
Speaker 5: big part in getting that two thousand and nine World Series,
Speaker 5: So you know, I, just as you're saying he was
Speaker 5: a big part of it, you are an extremely large
Speaker 5: part of.
Speaker 1: That as well.
Speaker 2: So thank you, and so Jane, this has been sort
Speaker 2: of written about it and talked about obviously of late
Speaker 2: with Joheotani tell us about what Japan means to the
Speaker 2: global business of baseball, what it means to the Yankees.
Speaker 2: It feels massively influential financially you would understand that better
Speaker 2: than anyone, so so help us frame it.
Speaker 1: I think two things about Nomo.
Speaker 5: When he first came, remember that was just right after
Speaker 5: the ninety four strike, when fans were disgusted with baseball.
Speaker 5: They were disgusted with the owners, discussed with the players,
Speaker 5: they wanted nothing to do with anything. And I really
Speaker 5: feel that Nomo brought fans back into the ballpark. And
Speaker 5: then the other thing is that I think that Nomo
Speaker 5: actually made Major League Baseball international because before then, I know, Alex,
Speaker 5: you were just a wee baby. You may not remember this,
Speaker 5: but before then international there really wasn't any international. I mean,
Speaker 5: obviously clubs were very active in the Dominican Republic, but
Speaker 5: there really wasn't broadcasting and merchandising. And as Alex said,
Speaker 5: baseball is huge in Japan, I mean absolutely huge. So
Speaker 5: when he came to the Dodgers, I mean, oh my god,
Speaker 5: the Dodgers were just I mean the amount of money
Speaker 5: he was making for them, and for Major League Baseball International,
Speaker 5: they just had to bring it in wheelbarrows. So they
Speaker 5: are very supportive of their players. Initially not so much.
Speaker 5: Initially they feel that when they come over here, they're
Speaker 5: portraying the pump professional baseball and abandoning baseball there. But
Speaker 5: once they come here, they have so much success. It's
Speaker 5: like carrying the pride of Japan on their shoulders. And obviously,
Speaker 5: you know, sponsorships come with that, broadcasting comes with that,
Speaker 5: and then other young Japanese players.
Speaker 1: See this and dream of playing in the major leagues.
Speaker 5: And so it's expanded the market dramatically for broadcasting. And
Speaker 5: I think it's great for the game. I mean, international
Speaker 5: baseball is great for the game of baseball.
Speaker 2: And what about for the Yankees. I mean, the Yankees
Speaker 2: are a massive brand. They're one of the most valuable
Speaker 2: teams on the planet in any sport. But how do
Speaker 2: you take advantage of that? I mean, this is part
Speaker 2: of your remit as I understand, is like understanding how
Speaker 2: the Yankees brand and how the Yankee business can work
Speaker 2: across Asia.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: Well, I'm not in the sponsorship and marketing department, but
Speaker 5: but you know, we had all kinds of ideas at
Speaker 5: the time of how to exploit is.
Speaker 3: Such a bad take advantage of.
Speaker 1: Connotation, but the good side of exploit.
Speaker 5: We had all kinds of ideas of how to exploit
Speaker 5: this you know we're going to do streaming right after
Speaker 5: the game. The sheer demand for access to Matsui and
Speaker 5: the Yankees was enormous. And in two thousand and four, Alex,
Speaker 5: you were on that trip.
Speaker 4: Ruh, Yes, yeah, we played the Rays, I believe.
Speaker 5: Yes, we played the Rays to open the season in Japan,
Speaker 5: and I mean the fans were crazy and they were
Speaker 5: just crazy. They would drive up on the sidewalk, you know,
Speaker 5: to get to our superstars and that was a great trip.
Speaker 4: So, Geen, I want to transition to the late George Steinbrenner,
Speaker 4: which both you and I have an incredible admiration for him.
Speaker 4: And to think that he bought this franchise for ten
Speaker 4: point seven million dollars in nineteen seventy three, I believe
Speaker 4: from ABC is wild. He did something that was not
Speaker 4: so popular at the time, putting someone like yourself in
Speaker 4: a very powerful position. And Susan Waldman, I mean incredible
Speaker 4: for him to do that ahead of his time. What
Speaker 4: have you learned? What did you learn from George Steinberner
Speaker 4: and what lessons do you still apply that you have
Speaker 4: today that you carry on?
Speaker 5: Oh wow, Well remember George and Brian Cashman, also Kim
Speaker 5: ang was my predecessor's. So the only owner and general
Speaker 5: manager in all of professional sports have not one, but
Speaker 5: two female assistant general managers. And I always tell people,
Speaker 5: and Alex, you probably probably say the same thing. Everything
Speaker 5: good and everything bad. You ever heard about mister Steinberger,
Speaker 5: It's all true. No, he was larger than life. He
Speaker 5: was legendary. He was he should be in the Hall
Speaker 5: of Fame, extraordinarily disciplined. You know, it was all about
Speaker 5: the team. The players had to have everything. And I
Speaker 5: think Alex, I don't know if you remember when it
Speaker 5: was raining, he would get really pissed off at Robbie Kakuza,
Speaker 5: the clubhouse manager, because you wanted every player to have
Speaker 5: a little cloth to wipe their bat off with, and
Speaker 5: if there was a rain delay, there should be mattresses
Speaker 5: in the clubhouse. You know, it was all for the players.
Speaker 5: I think he was the first owner to provide omelets,
Speaker 5: you know, for Sunday brunch for all the players.
Speaker 1: But I think what I learned from him is always
Speaker 1: be prepared. I mean we would go into meetings.
Speaker 5: And he had an unerring sense of what you didn't know,
Speaker 5: so you'd go in prepared for the meeting and then
Speaker 5: he'd ask you that one thing, that one thing that
Speaker 5: you didn't know. But early on I learned that I
Speaker 5: would say, I don't I don't know that. I don't
Speaker 5: have the answer to that, but I will go and
Speaker 5: get the answer and come back. Yeah, before I came
Speaker 5: to the Yankees, i'd call him George. When I came
Speaker 5: to the Yankees, I'd call him mister Steinbrenner. So he said,
Speaker 5: whenever anybody's.
Speaker 3: Is that right?
Speaker 1: But I never call him the boss because that's Bruce Springsteen.
Speaker 1: I just want to make that.
Speaker 5: You know, a lot of the old timers at the Yankees,
Speaker 5: you know we miss him.
Speaker 4: At the time, we didn't and Gene along the same lines,
Speaker 4: I'll never forget in the World Series when he went
Speaker 4: into the Shay Stadium and said this furniture is not
Speaker 4: good enough and he literally had Robbie Gokuza change it.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it was unbelievable. But one quick question on
Speaker 4: what is the biggest difference. I think how has done
Speaker 4: an extraordinary job with what he's doing today and the
Speaker 4: resources spending and the commitment level, just like George. What
Speaker 4: would you say is the difference between George versus How
Speaker 4: For our listeners.
Speaker 1: Well, part of it you hit on listening.
Speaker 5: Hal is a rational, reasonable, smart man who it's kind
Speaker 5: of ironic because if he doesn't know the answer or
Speaker 5: the subject matter, he will learn it.
Speaker 1: He goes to the players, talks with.
Speaker 5: Them, asks their opinion, ask the opinion of everybody in
Speaker 5: the organization. Hal is a I would say, a very
Speaker 5: enlightened leader, whereas George was more slightly dictator ish.
Speaker 4: We love that.
Speaker 1: Because you know what you were getting. Yeah, and it's generational.
Speaker 5: You know. Hal's a different kind of leader. He's a
Speaker 5: I mean, George would be out of this would not
Speaker 5: be his time period. Some of the things he said
Speaker 5: and did, Oh my lord, there would be so many lawsuits, but.
Speaker 3: Fair to say. And talked to us about Brian Cashman.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a partnership that you've been involved
Speaker 2: in for you know, now multiple decades. He obviously has
Speaker 2: a probably as high a profile, if not higher, than
Speaker 2: just about anyone in the business of baseball, maybe even
Speaker 2: across sports. He is extremely well known. Talk to us
Speaker 2: about your partnership with him, And I know Alex sort
Speaker 2: of witnessed it, but I'm curious how you see it.
Speaker 1: I had met.
Speaker 5: Brian when I was representing players and we got along.
Speaker 5: We got along, and then when he asked me to
Speaker 5: be his assistant general manager, I thought I'd be there
Speaker 5: for a couple of years. My first contract was two
Speaker 5: years plus a club option. I thought I'd be right
Speaker 5: back in California after that. But Brian is remarkable. I mean,
Speaker 5: people say, the hardest job, you know, is being the
Speaker 5: general manager of the New York Yankees. And they asked him, like,
Speaker 5: what's the hardest job you ever had or what's the
Speaker 5: messiest job? And he said, well, you know, cleaning out
Speaker 5: horse stalls in Kentucky is much messier than being the
Speaker 5: general manager of the New York Yankees. But Alex, you
Speaker 5: know this, I'm being a Yankee is different than being
Speaker 5: any as a player, as you know, a coach as
Speaker 5: a general manager, and he's had to, you know, put
Speaker 5: together these teams for wow, twenty five thirty years, and
Speaker 5: it's not always the money that's the thing. And even
Speaker 5: if you do have a large paycheck, you've got to
Speaker 5: spend it wisely and you have to have the depth
Speaker 5: to be able to get through a season.
Speaker 1: And he's just remarkable.
Speaker 5: He's very even keeled, great sense that Alex knows this
Speaker 5: great sense of humor, doesn't get flustered like Hal. He's
Speaker 5: a big listener, gets the advice of everybody in the organization.
Speaker 1: And I think that's why he's lasted so long. Is
Speaker 1: it's that.
Speaker 5: And he also, you know it doesn't really have a
Speaker 5: very big ego. Is also the key.
Speaker 1: It's it's really a team effort for him.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Geene Brian Cashman has a lot of qualities. One
Speaker 4: of them is very tough, and you have to be right.
Speaker 4: You have to be thick skin to play in a
Speaker 4: market like New York, where yeah, you may have a
Speaker 4: lot of resources, but the scrutiny is brighter, the lights
Speaker 4: are brighter, and the expectations are much higher. But in
Speaker 4: two thousand and nine, I don't know if it was
Speaker 4: May where we were maybe May June. We were kind
Speaker 4: of a little bit of a funk and that team
Speaker 4: didn't get in a lot of funks. But it was
Speaker 4: early and we weren't playing well, and he flew into Atlanta.
Speaker 4: We had a players only meeting with Cashman. I think
Speaker 4: he was gonna scream at us. He didn't scream at us.
Speaker 4: He was constructive. He said, guys, we got to get
Speaker 4: better this that the other thing which I don't want
Speaker 4: to share here. And from that day on we played
Speaker 4: almost seven to fifty baseball and obviously went on to
Speaker 4: win the world title. So for me, that was a
Speaker 4: great sign of not only high level what you have
Speaker 4: with what he has to do with George and how
Speaker 4: on the finance side, but the personality and the eq
Speaker 4: to go into a room of twenty five players and
Speaker 4: tell us exactly how it is. I think that was
Speaker 4: a big reason why we won the title in two
Speaker 4: thousand and nine.
Speaker 5: I agree. I think you also hit on something. He
Speaker 5: always says, you run towards a problem. You don't avoid it,
Speaker 5: run towards it. And I always joke with him that
Speaker 5: he doesn't really have a bedside manner with players. Sometimes
Speaker 5: I refer to players as gardens that need tending. You know,
Speaker 5: you have to have sometimes a light that's not him.
Speaker 5: He knew will just and that probably in the meeting he's.
Speaker 4: Just no bod right.
Speaker 5: He will sit down with the player, and every player
Speaker 5: knows that I'm not.
Speaker 1: Gonna lie to you, I'm not going to bolk at you.
Speaker 5: I'm going to I'm going to look you in the
Speaker 5: eye I'm going to tell you the truth. And there
Speaker 5: were so many times when George would tell him, you
Speaker 5: go down there, you scream at those players, you've cut
Speaker 5: the money, you whatever you need to do, and he would,
Speaker 5: you know, not his head, and then he would go
Speaker 5: he wouldn't do that, he would go down he'd have
Speaker 5: a notebook conversation. I always worry whenever I do an
Speaker 5: interview and people go, oh, how refreshing, You're so authentic.
Speaker 1: I've just embarrassed my mother.
Speaker 2: And so Jean, Alex and I are always I think
Speaker 2: one of the many things we share an interest in
Speaker 2: is how people manage their careers. And you know, you
Speaker 2: talked about how how Brian has done it? How have
Speaker 2: you done it? You know, I mean having this long
Speaker 2: of a tenure at a single organization, and listen, many
Speaker 2: people would look and say, it's a dream job.
Speaker 3: It's a hard job.
Speaker 2: You're at the highest level at you know, one of
Speaker 2: the most you know, dominant, historic, high expectation organizations in
Speaker 2: the world. How have you managed it? And and how
Speaker 2: do you how do you manage a career like that?
Speaker 5: Well? I I you know, and once again I'm not
Speaker 5: I'm not saying this out of any arrogance. But I
Speaker 5: always want little girls and little boys to see that
Speaker 5: there are women in these positions in baseball, because if
Speaker 5: you see it, then you can imagine yourself there.
Speaker 1: So when I.
Speaker 5: Represented players, I was told that I was the only
Speaker 5: certified player agent, you know, certified by the MLBPA at
Speaker 5: the time. And then I was the third woman assistant GM,
Speaker 5: and for period of time I was the only one,
Speaker 5: and then my very good friend Miquel Ferreira, my brother
Speaker 5: I call her, became the assistant GM at the Red Sox.
Speaker 5: Now there are other women assistant gms. But I was
Speaker 5: lucky to be at the right place at the right time.
Speaker 5: So starting in Japanese baseball was just I just happened
Speaker 5: to be there. And I was lucky to work with
Speaker 5: Dona Mora. I was lucky to work with Gene Orza Alex.
Speaker 1: You remember Jean.
Speaker 5: He's just an incredible He was the general counsel of
Speaker 5: the of the PA and just an incredible smart man,
Speaker 5: and he kind of took us under his wing. So
Speaker 5: lucky to work with and for Brian Cashman and George Steinbrenner.
Speaker 5: So part of it is part of it's me, but
Speaker 5: part of it's also working with people who can recognize
Speaker 5: your talent or what you can do, and who allow
Speaker 5: you to to be your most skilled. It's like, Alex,
Speaker 5: It's like it's like where you where you're most.
Speaker 1: Comfortable in the batting order. You just you know, you want.
Speaker 5: People have to give you the opportunity to do your
Speaker 5: best stuff. And I was lucky that I had people
Speaker 5: giving me the opportunity to do.
Speaker 1: My best stuff.
Speaker 2: Geene, I want to I want to press you on
Speaker 2: one element and almost based on what you said earlier
Speaker 2: in the conversation, press you and maybe even correct you. Sorry,
Speaker 2: you know, because you said, you know you're at the
Speaker 2: right place at the right time with the Japanese baseball piece.
Speaker 2: But based on what you said earlier, it sounds like
Speaker 2: that was an opportunity that could be identified by other people.
Speaker 2: But then you did it, and that does seem to
Speaker 2: be a difference. You know that you said, Okay, we're
Speaker 2: going to identify these loopholes and then we're going to
Speaker 2: figure out what they are going to take advantage of them,
Speaker 2: and then when they move, we're going to try to
Speaker 2: So I mean, I dare say I feel like maybe
Speaker 2: you're not giving yourself enough credit for I mean, that
Speaker 2: was pioneering and revolutionary at the time and really changed
Speaker 2: the game, right, I'm not.
Speaker 5: Using any false modesty. I mean I was also lucky
Speaker 5: that I worked with players Nomo and sorran Oni Rabu
Speaker 5: who really like they put their lives on the line.
Speaker 5: They could have been out of baseball pumping gas, you know,
Speaker 5: just their careers could have been over, and they trusted
Speaker 5: Don and I and I mean, I love the challenge.
Speaker 5: The challenge was amazing, and we really felt that we
Speaker 5: were doing something important and it was our version of
Speaker 5: baseball civil rights, you know, and it was really exciting.
Speaker 5: And I was probably I wasn't that young, but I
Speaker 5: was probably you know, I just had the blinders on
Speaker 5: and I just felt we're doing the right thing and
Speaker 5: we can't fail.
Speaker 1: But I still think I've just been really lucky, really mucky.
Speaker 4: Jane, You've been really lucky, but you've been really really
Speaker 4: good and you're great at your job. I guess I
Speaker 4: have a two part question for you. One, as a
Speaker 4: young woman in the world of sports, there weren't a
Speaker 4: lot of women in the world of sports. A lot
Speaker 4: of times, many times you were the only woman in
Speaker 4: the room, which is incredible. But I guess, did you
Speaker 4: ever have any imposter syndrome? And what do you think
Speaker 4: is your superpower?
Speaker 1: I still have imposter syndrome. I still have imposter syndrome.
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, memory is.
Speaker 5: Such a funny thing, you know, it's probably the most
Speaker 5: unreliable thing we have.
Speaker 1: So in order to prepare for this podcast, I actually
Speaker 1: went back and.
Speaker 5: Reviewed reviewed everything that I'd done, and I looked up
Speaker 5: the rules and the posting system and all that, you know,
Speaker 5: because I figured people are going to listen and go, wow,
Speaker 5: she doesn't know what the she's talking about. But I
Speaker 5: did have imposter syndrome a lot. I didn't as a
Speaker 5: player representative, and I always enjoyed working with players, never
Speaker 5: had any you know, discrimination from players on the club side.
Speaker 5: A little bit more maybe, but I was constantly, you know,
Speaker 5: carrying around the basic Agreement and the Major League rules
Speaker 5: with me and you know, flipping through it on whenever
Speaker 5: I could. And if you are the only one in
Speaker 5: the room, and sometimes I probably said things, you know,
Speaker 5: just to shock people.
Speaker 4: And what is your super power? I know you're trying
Speaker 4: to avoid, Oh, my superpower?
Speaker 5: I guess my superpower is over the years, and as
Speaker 5: a player, you have to do this. I developed a
Speaker 5: thicker and thicker and thicker skin, and I think, I
Speaker 5: hope one of my superpowers is.
Speaker 1: That I care so damn much. I just care about
Speaker 1: my job.
Speaker 5: I'm doing well every single day, and I live in
Speaker 5: fear and dread even now, thirty something years later, that
Speaker 5: on any.
Speaker 4: Given day, well, Jeane, you're not. You're doing a terrible
Speaker 4: job of talking about your super power. So I'll do
Speaker 4: it for you. O God, you do not no, honestly,
Speaker 4: like we were together for you know, parts of fifteen years,
Speaker 4: maybe a little bit more. And I watched your career.
Speaker 4: I studied your career through thick and thin. You're always
Speaker 4: fair and you're always honest, and in many ways you
Speaker 4: have been a role model to me because you always
Speaker 4: handled yourself in such a regal manner. And I come
Speaker 4: from a single mother, and watching you, I can just
Speaker 4: see my mother up there and be the only woman
Speaker 4: in the room. I just think is an extraordinary thing.
Speaker 4: And I know, I know there there'll be hundreds, if
Speaker 4: not thousands of young women that will look at you
Speaker 4: as a role model and will study your career.
Speaker 5: Alex, thank you so much. That's a really lovely thing
Speaker 5: to say. I'm going to need a recording of this.
Speaker 5: I'm gonna play it every morning, Good morning before I
Speaker 5: start my day.
Speaker 2: Your affirmation. All right, So we're gonna move to our
Speaker 2: lightning round. This is just five questions. We're gonna do
Speaker 2: it real quick. Alex now bounced back and forth and
Speaker 2: just you know, say whatever jumps into your mind.
Speaker 3: All right, you ready?
Speaker 1: Oh god, Okay.
Speaker 2: What's the best piece of advice you've ever received on
Speaker 2: deal making or business?
Speaker 1: No substitute for the written word.
Speaker 4: What's your dream deal making partner?
Speaker 3: Well, Brian Cashman, what's the most nervous you've ever been?
Speaker 1: I can't say now right now.
Speaker 5: The most nervous I've ever been? You know what the
Speaker 5: first time I walked into court when I was litigating.
Speaker 4: What's your hype song before a big meeting or negotiation?
Speaker 1: Dammit, dammit.
Speaker 5: It's an Australian band and I can never think of
Speaker 5: the name. But it's an Australian band. It's an Australian band.
Speaker 5: I can't think of the name though.
Speaker 3: Yeah, how does it go? Sing it?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 4: I can't behind it.
Speaker 1: I do have a I mean I have a quote.
Speaker 3: I have a quote, that's my right that.
Speaker 5: I have two quotes that I always say, and they're
Speaker 5: from Lady Macbeth, who's.
Speaker 1: Not really a role model for anybody. But one is
Speaker 1: that if you screw your courage.
Speaker 5: To the sticking post, you can't fail. And the other,
Speaker 5: which actually isn't from Lady Macbeth, but I used to
Speaker 5: tell myself turn your blood to ice.
Speaker 1: And your blood to ice. Turn your blood to ice,
Speaker 1: and then walk in. My mother taught me something.
Speaker 5: She said, whenever you walk into a meeting, you have
Speaker 5: to tell yourself, you know these affirmations, I'm smart, I'm this,
Speaker 5: I'm that, and then your last your last word to
Speaker 5: yourself is and I have a secret.
Speaker 1: So if you walk in and I have a secret,
Speaker 1: everybody just is like, what is what is going on there?
Speaker 1: What is happening there?
Speaker 3: WHOA that is really good?
Speaker 1: I have a secret.
Speaker 3: That's really good.
Speaker 4: All right?
Speaker 2: So what's your advice for someone listening who wants a
Speaker 2: career like yours, which is unmatched?
Speaker 1: You know what? And then, once again I hope this
Speaker 1: doesn't sound sappy.
Speaker 5: Education, education, education, and put the blinders on, do the work,
Speaker 5: do it well.
Speaker 1: Don't let anybody tell you you can't do it, and
Speaker 1: just you know, move forward. You can do anything if
Speaker 1: you use your mind.
Speaker 5: And I realized that that may be disingenuous because a
Speaker 5: lot of people don't have an opportunity for an education,
Speaker 5: and a lot of people don't have, you know, opportunities
Speaker 5: come their way. But I would say that that even
Speaker 5: if you're not going to get paid, which I wasn't
Speaker 5: paid early in my baseball career, whatever you can do,
Speaker 5: if a job comes your way, take it and then
Speaker 5: make yourself indispensable.
Speaker 3: That's really good.
Speaker 2: Well, I have to say there have been a lot
Speaker 2: of text flying back and forth between me and Alex
Speaker 2: in anticipation of this one, Gene, and you really delivered
Speaker 2: and then some so thank you so much for spending
Speaker 2: some time with us.
Speaker 3: It was a real treat to see the two of
Speaker 3: you chop it up.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Gene.
Speaker 1: I'm so honored that you asked me. I'm so honored,
Speaker 1: and Alex. It's great to be working together again, the
Speaker 1: same team again.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 4: I'm so happy. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, gentlemen, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2: The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason
Speaker 2: Kelly This episode was made by Annamasarekus, Stacey Wong, and
Speaker 2: Lizzie Phillip. Amy Keene is our editor. Music is made
Speaker 2: by Blake Maples. Our executive producers are Kelly Leferrier, Ashley Hoenig,
Speaker 2: and Brenda Nonham. Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts.
Speaker 2: Additional support from Rachel Carnivale and Elena sos Angeles. Thanks
Speaker 2: so much for listening to the deal. If you have
Speaker 2: a minute, subscribe, rate and review our show. It'll help
Speaker 2: other listeners find us. I'm Jason Kelly. See you next week.