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Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on

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Speaker 1: the Unizes can never default on this legal appligage. To

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Speaker 1: do so would have catastrophic economic counterpos We've been way

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Speaker 1: too over the line on foreign market people wanted greeky

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Speaker 1: us job Floomberg Sound on politics, Policy and perspective from

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Speaker 1: DC's top name Sad and the Palace leadership has basically

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Speaker 1: shown the banks to test in advance. Mobilizing the business

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Speaker 1: community is a really good thing to do, Yes, Schloomberg.

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Speaker 1: Sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. And it's

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Speaker 1: back to the drawing board as Democrats split on taxes

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Speaker 1: the way to pay for the Biden economic agenda. And

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Speaker 1: you thought that was already hammered out. Bloomberg News reporting

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Speaker 1: congressional damns around the hunt for alternatives today as Senators

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Speaker 1: Joe Mansion and Kirsten Cinema balk and higher corporate tax

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Speaker 1: rates weeks after the House Ways and Means Committee rolled

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Speaker 1: out a plan, they seem to be proud of hiking

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Speaker 1: the corporate tax rate to twenty six point five percent

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Speaker 1: capital gains, not even as much as President Biden proposed,

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Speaker 1: but enough to pay for the plan. They said. Now

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Speaker 1: it's onto a possible billionaires tax. And we'll get into

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Speaker 1: the details with Bloomberg's tax and Congress reporter Laura Davison

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Speaker 1: here analysis a bit later on from Brandon Arnold at

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Speaker 1: the National Taxpayers Union Our panel today Bloomberg Politics contributor

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Speaker 1: Genie Chanzano along with Brendan Buck from Strategic Comes Firm

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Speaker 1: seven Letter, former advisor to HOW Speaker Paul Ryan. And

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Speaker 1: if that weren't enough, Donald Trump elbowing his way back

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Speaker 1: onto social media through a spack deal today and it

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Speaker 1: was a rally. We'll get the story from Bloomberg Stocks

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Speaker 1: reporter Bailey Lipshutz and Bloomberg National political reporter Mark Niquette.

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Speaker 1: So welcome to the fastest hour in politics. Just when

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Speaker 1: you thought it was safe to go back in the water,

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Speaker 1: Democrats could be back to square one on the the

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Speaker 1: tax component of the reconciliation plan, As I mentioned Senator's

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Speaker 1: mansion in Cinema opposed the one already released by House,

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Speaker 1: Democrats would have hiked the corporate tax rate to twenty

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Speaker 1: six and a half percent, up from one, blowing a

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Speaker 1: five forty billion dollar hole in the two trillion dollars

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Speaker 1: they need to raise. As I read from Laura Davison

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Speaker 1: and Eric Wasson, the Democratic leaders maintained they are making progress,

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Speaker 1: were the words of Speaker Nancy Pelosi, coming around the bend.

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Speaker 1: So here we are down for the stretch, you and

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Speaker 1: for Maryland. I'm horse racing, sports sports sportsman, now horse racing.

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Speaker 1: We're almost to the stretch. We round at the turn,

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Speaker 1: and we're almost to the stretch, and we're making great

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Speaker 1: progress to our goal. Will secureing framework agreement to go

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Speaker 1: back better in a timely fashion. Not that we know

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Speaker 1: how this horse race will end. Apologies to our Washington

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Speaker 1: area listeners who live near Pimlico. And we're joined now

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Speaker 1: by the aforementioned Laura Davison, who helped to report and

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Speaker 1: write one of the most read stories today on the terminal. Laura,

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Speaker 1: thanks for being here. What alternatives are they now looking at? Well,

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Speaker 1: they're kind of looking at square one. Cinema has come

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Speaker 1: out in opposition of some of the corporate tax increases

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Speaker 1: that they were looking at, you know, raising that rate

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Speaker 1: to twenty six and a half percent. Joe Manson is

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Speaker 1: really closely once that's probably a manageable difference, but you know,

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Speaker 1: with cinema opposing any sort of increases that could be

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Speaker 1: a problem. So Democrats are looking at how else can

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Speaker 1: we raise taxes on corporation without actually raising the tax rates.

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Speaker 1: There's a couple of things they can do. They can

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Speaker 1: get rid of some of the tax preferences, benefits, credits,

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Speaker 1: deductions that are in the tax code. They could look

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Speaker 1: at imposing a minimum tax. They could look at a

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Speaker 1: tax on stock buybacks. All of these are options that

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Speaker 1: are doable. The question is are they politically viable and

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Speaker 1: are they administrable? Can they actually come up and draft

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Speaker 1: this language and come up with a deal, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the very short time frame that they're looking at, Well,

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Speaker 1: you just rattled through a whole bunch of stuff here, Laura,

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Speaker 1: just to pick through a couple of them quickly. When

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Speaker 1: we talk about a billionaires tax, am I am? I

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Speaker 1: correct and understanding, And that's a tax on unrealized gains?

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Speaker 1: How would that be compiled? How would the I R

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Speaker 1: S do that? Yeah? This would basically the sort of

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Speaker 1: a really scaled back version of the wealth tax that

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren was talking about during the Democratic campaign. She

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Speaker 1: basically this is what it's This idea would look at

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Speaker 1: his fit of the wealthiest Americans, look at all of

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Speaker 1: their assets, look at the appreciation on those assets in

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Speaker 1: any particular the year, and then tax that. Normally, the

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Speaker 1: way that capital gains taxes are is that you don't

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Speaker 1: pay anything until you sell the asset. This the I

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Speaker 1: R s would go around and collect these taxes every year,

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Speaker 1: and it would really be a big change and how

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of the tax system whims that's right.

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Speaker 1: And stock buy backs that was another right. Corporations would

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Speaker 1: have to essentially pay what a certain capital gains rate

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Speaker 1: on on the stocks they're buying. How would that work.

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Speaker 1: It would be an excise tax, a two exercise tax

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Speaker 1: on the amount of the stock buy back. Basically what

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Speaker 1: Democrats and even some Republicans talked about, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: is sort of equalizing the treatment between stock back backs

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Speaker 1: and dividends. There's been a lot of complaints that, you know,

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Speaker 1: corporations are putting too much money into buy backs and

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Speaker 1: not enough into investments. So this would be a way

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Speaker 1: to encourage in companies to invest more rather than just

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Speaker 1: buy their stock back to juice up the stock price. Now,

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Speaker 1: so I guess twenty six point five is out the window.

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Speaker 1: You can tell me maybe it comes back, but that

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Speaker 1: would be essentially replaced by a minimum corporate tax right now.

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Speaker 1: That's something Laura, we talked about on an international level

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Speaker 1: of sort of for for foreign exposure. Uh, and that's

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Speaker 1: something that's come up with the G twenty and there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of implications there. But domestically here would

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Speaker 1: that also be a fifteen percent minimum and and how

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Speaker 1: would that work? Well, it's important to note that nothing

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Speaker 1: is off the table yet. You know, the House Democrats

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Speaker 1: met with Cinema this afternoon to talk about um corporate

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Speaker 1: tax increases. It's still those are still ideas that are

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Speaker 1: that are being bantered around. But the way that the

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Speaker 1: minimum tax would work is similar to the foreign minimum tax.

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Speaker 1: Would be a fifteen percent rate, as Biden has proposed it.

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Speaker 1: And basically that means that you know that corporate stions

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Speaker 1: would could would pay at least fifteen percent on their

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Speaker 1: their financial profits what they report to investors. And this

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Speaker 1: would be a big change because right now companies can

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Speaker 1: actually pay you know, very low rates if they have

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Speaker 1: lots of credits or deductions things that are available to them,

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Speaker 1: you know, for investing in research and development or employee

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Speaker 1: stock compensation. This would really, you know, change the dealing

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Speaker 1: would in some ways. The criticism of this idea is

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Speaker 1: that it would not It would really kind of change

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Speaker 1: corporate behavior, that companies would have less incentives to invest

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Speaker 1: in things like research, They would have less insensive invest in,

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Speaker 1: you know, regelable energy. It would really kind of shake

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Speaker 1: up the tax poat that Congress has created. We are

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Speaker 1: moving on though, right Laura, This Houseways and Means plan

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Speaker 1: is out the window? Is that fair to say it's

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Speaker 1: not out the window. It's just a lot of the

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Speaker 1: things that they thought were set are now really being

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Speaker 1: called into question. And the question is can they get

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Speaker 1: Cinema to agree to at least some of the things

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Speaker 1: that they had planned on, you know, in order to

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Speaker 1: to raise the roughly two trillion dollars they needed on

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Speaker 1: this plan. Laura, great reporting today, Many thanks for being

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Speaker 1: with us. Your column is the first one I read

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Speaker 1: when I woke up this morning. Laura Davison and Eric

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Speaker 1: Watson on the terminal. Man, if I could borrow just

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Speaker 1: a little bit of Laura's energy, I would be much

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Speaker 1: better for it. Let's bring in Brandon Arnold, Executive vice

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Speaker 1: president the National Taxpayers Union, former research analyst at the

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Speaker 1: National Republican Senatorial Committee the NRSC, recalling our conversation earlier

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Speaker 1: this week with Senator Rick Scott, the chair he spent

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Speaker 1: a lot of years on the hill. Brandon, I can

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Speaker 1: only assume you have an allergy to higher taxes. But,

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Speaker 1: and maybe I'm wrong, you can tell me, as a

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Speaker 1: billionaire's tax better for business than a higher corporate tax rate?

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Speaker 1: Is it better? I think, well, first of all, I

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Speaker 1: think you're right. I do have a bit of an

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Speaker 1: allergy when it comes to higher taxes. I'm not really

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Speaker 1: in the market of saying with taxes better than others.

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Speaker 1: I don't like any of them. But yes, in some

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Speaker 1: ways a billionaire's tax would be less economically problematic than

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Speaker 1: a higher corporate rate. Higher corporate tax rate, you know,

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Speaker 1: research shows that the incidents of that falls on workers,

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Speaker 1: primarily on workers. So you see lower wages, you see

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Speaker 1: a few were employees. There's a big impact that and

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Speaker 1: that's born out that virtually all the economic research, whether

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Speaker 1: it's from left leaning groups or right leaning groups. Now

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Speaker 1: that's not to say a tax on billionaires is not problematic.

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Speaker 1: I think it is problematic, especially when You're looking at

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Speaker 1: a situation where we just brought in over four trillion

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Speaker 1: dollars in tax revenue. We have tax revenue coming in

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Speaker 1: in space right now, So I would really question the

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Speaker 1: need to raise taxes. But certainly some taxes are more

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Speaker 1: harmful than others. It's a campaign spot for Republicans, isn't

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Speaker 1: it to just imagine what what would the I R S?

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Speaker 1: How many people the I R S have to hire

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Speaker 1: to get that done? Yeah, this is a huge question.

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Speaker 1: You know, Biden's proposal costs for eighty billion dollars in

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Speaker 1: funds going to the I R S. They would use

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Speaker 1: that to hire eighty seven thousand new I R S agents. Now,

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Speaker 1: if we're talking about the wealth tax that you mentioned

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Speaker 1: with Laura a minute ago, you know, Elizabeth Warren crafted

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Speaker 1: a plan that would require a hundred billion dollars going

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Speaker 1: to the I R S just to enforce the wealth tax.

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Speaker 1: That's a fun nominal increase. You're talking about far more

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Speaker 1: than doubling the size of the I R S and

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Speaker 1: vastly expanding its scope and ability to assess taxes on

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Speaker 1: on individuals. It's how do you do a dramatic how

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Speaker 1: do you tax unrealized gains? Is that would that be

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Speaker 1: on And of course I realized this isn't done. They

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Speaker 1: haven't written a billit yet. But in concept, would people

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Speaker 1: be reporting, uh, even though they haven't sold anything, they'd

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Speaker 1: be reporting unrealized gains? Or where the I R S

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Speaker 1: have access to accounts that go in there and kind

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Speaker 1: of audit everyone every year. Yeah, that's that's a great question.

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Speaker 1: The administrative administer ability of taxing unrealized gains is opening

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Speaker 1: an enormous can of worms, and there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: questions that would need to be handled in the legislation

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Speaker 1: as well as in subsequent regulations that come out of

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Speaker 1: the I R S. So I can't really answer those

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Speaker 1: questions with a lot of certainty because I don't think

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Speaker 1: they have established how they would do so. But I

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Speaker 1: think the underlying point is an important one. It would

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Speaker 1: be a tremendous mess, a huge mess to try to

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Speaker 1: figure out how much people have made on on their assets,

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Speaker 1: because you're not just talking about stocks and bonds and

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Speaker 1: things like that. You're talking about other forms of assets.

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Speaker 1: You know, it could involve paintings and stamp collections and

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Speaker 1: coins and so forth, And that's one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: why these unrealized gains, which also our tax in a

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Speaker 1: wealth tax system, why why they've provided They've they've created

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Speaker 1: so many headaches for tax collectors, and even countries like

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Speaker 1: France have gone back and repealed their wealth tax subsequently

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Speaker 1: because it's been such a nightmare to administer. How about

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Speaker 1: stock buy backs then, is that another way to to

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Speaker 1: effectively raise the corporate tax rate? Yeah, I think that's

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Speaker 1: something on the table right now. They're talking about a

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Speaker 1: two exercise tax on stock buy backs. I think stock

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Speaker 1: by backs have really been demonized by people, particularly on

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Speaker 1: the left. We saw that a lot out of two

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Speaker 1: thousand seventeen when the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act for passed,

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Speaker 1: and as soon as it took effect, a lot of

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Speaker 1: corporations were using the additional cash that they had on

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Speaker 1: hand for stock buybacks. Stock buybacks aren't inherently evil, they're

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Speaker 1: not inherent good. They provide some value to shareholders. The

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Speaker 1: shareholders of course involved retirees, people with four one ks

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Speaker 1: and iras, so they do provide some benefit. They also

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Speaker 1: free up future capital, so people stocks I'm sorry, companies

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Speaker 1: can reissue uh those uh stocks and bringing money that

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Speaker 1: can be used for capital investment, so they provide some

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Speaker 1: flexibility for a corporation that they might not otherwise have.

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Speaker 1: So I kind of view them as a double edged sort.

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Speaker 1: I don't think we should go assess taxes on stock

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Speaker 1: by backs and with the notion that these are somehow

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Speaker 1: inherently bad, because I don't think that's the case. Brandon Arnold,

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Speaker 1: Executive vice president of the National Taxpayers Union, we thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us here on Bloomberg Radio today.

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Speaker 1: To be clear, by the way, Speaker Pelosi was asked

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Speaker 1: about all they said, very very clearly, she preferred the

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Speaker 1: higher corporate tax rate twenty six and a half that

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Speaker 1: had come out of ways and means. She said it

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Speaker 1: was a more fair approach. You're listening to Bloomberg, you

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Speaker 1: sound on with Joe Maview on lolom Bird Radio. So

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Speaker 1: it's on to Plan B or well whatever letter we're

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Speaker 1: on when it comes to taxes to pay for the

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Speaker 1: reconciliation plan. Even though it seemed like Democrats we're headed

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Speaker 1: for a twenty six and a half percent corporate tax

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Speaker 1: rate that seemed to be baked into the bill or

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Speaker 1: what will be the bill, Speaker Pelosi suggesting today in

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Speaker 1: a briefing with reporters that well, that's still a preference.

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Speaker 1: We had in a House bill which I was very

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Speaker 1: proud of an increase in the corporate rate and an

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Speaker 1: increase in the capital gains, and that it was a

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Speaker 1: very well received proposal because it wasn't punitive, it was fair.

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Speaker 1: But we'll see what survives prevails. We will the view

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Speaker 1: from the White House Deputy Press Secretary Karine John Pierre,

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Speaker 1: there's no matter the tax, what form it takes, the

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Speaker 1: plan will be paid for. As we're talking about physical,

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Speaker 1: physical infrastructure and human infrastructure is going to be paid for.

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Speaker 1: We see the ust is zero because it's going to

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Speaker 1: be paid for. And the way that we see it

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Speaker 1: happening is making sure that the wealthiest among us, the

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Speaker 1: top corporations, pay their fair share. And we assemble the

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Speaker 1: panel to talk about it all. Bloomberg Politics contributor Genie

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Speaker 1: Chanzano and Brendan buck Is with us as well, partner

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Speaker 1: at seven Letter Strategic Communications firm here in Washington, and

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Speaker 1: former spokesman adviser to House Speaker Paul Ryan. Genie, what's

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Speaker 1: your take on this? It's like whip lash. You go

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Speaker 1: to bed thinking there's something in this deal. Then you

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Speaker 1: wake up the next morning and there's a column on

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Speaker 1: the terminal telling you the exact opposite is the corporate

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Speaker 1: tax rate hike Dead Joe. I actually wrote you're reading

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Speaker 1: my mind whiplash across my notebook today and discussed because

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Speaker 1: of course we had been so optimistic, at least I

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Speaker 1: had been so optimistic yesterday that this was finally coming together.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing a light at the end of the tunnel.

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Speaker 1: To wake up to this today, Um, you know, and

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Speaker 1: Laura's reporting which is amazing, and you know it, it's

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Speaker 1: mind boggling. And you hear what the Deputy Press Secretary

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Speaker 1: is saying that the bill is going to be paid for.

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Speaker 1: But I think the question that I have and so

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Speaker 1: many of us have, is how do you pay for

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Speaker 1: it if you don't get tax and revenue increases. Now, Cinema,

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Speaker 1: as Laura talked about, is does support some tax increases,

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Speaker 1: but we don't know what those are. So there's that

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Speaker 1: end of it. And then there is the fact that,

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Speaker 1: of course Cinema and Mansion don't agree on a few things,

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Speaker 1: and both of them have to be on board for

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Speaker 1: this to work. So you know, you've got the president

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Speaker 1: out there selling something he doesn't quite have any details

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Speaker 1: on it, and this blows up last night. So you know,

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Speaker 1: there seems like we are still very far off. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you told me right now was you know May,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised. Last May. I mean last May,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know if we were going ahead because some

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Speaker 1: people are preparing for that. Uh. The word from the

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Speaker 1: House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, Well, you can imagine whether

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Speaker 1: this bill is four point five trillion, three trillion or

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Speaker 1: one point five The Democrats proposal worse than inflation, continue

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Speaker 1: to harbor and harm our labor shortage. I won't do

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Speaker 1: anything to stop the border crisis that we have today,

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Speaker 1: and it will set our country back for decades. Also

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Speaker 1: on the panel, Brendan Buck, as I mentioned, partner at

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Speaker 1: seven Letter, used to work with Speaker Paul Ryan. It's

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Speaker 1: great to have you, Brendan. Uh. What role, if any,

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Speaker 1: should Republicans be playing in this conversation. Is it the

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Speaker 1: McCarthy approach, hands in your pockets, I'll have nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with this, or should there be an effort by

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Speaker 1: Republicans to help negotiate this to what Republicans view is

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Speaker 1: the best for the country. Well, I think Republicans already

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Speaker 1: did that in what they're calling the Heart Infrastructure Bill,

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Speaker 1: that bipartisan infrastructure bill, which was bipartisan Republicans worked on

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Speaker 1: for a really long time and something that I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people thought was never gonna happen, but

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Speaker 1: they stuck it out and got it done. Uh. This

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Speaker 1: separate which is what we're calling human infrastruct shirt, I

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Speaker 1: don't really know what that means. But the other bill,

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Speaker 1: I don't think there's any reason to believe Republicans should

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Speaker 1: have any parts a bunch of tax increases. It's a

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Speaker 1: massive expansion of government. Uh, just the opposite of that

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Speaker 1: Republicans have have talked about for a long time. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know that. I don't think they

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Speaker 1: need to do anything to help them get there. Um

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Speaker 1: and and frankly, I don't think they need to do

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Speaker 1: a whole lot to stop it, because Democrats are doing

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Speaker 1: that quite well on their own. Well, I understand your

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Speaker 1: view on that, but I mean, obviously Republicans did not

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Speaker 1: want to see the corporate tax rate increases that at

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Speaker 1: least a good thing in your eyes, or or Democrats

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Speaker 1: talking about replacing it with even worse. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: I I have a hard time putting too much credibility

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Speaker 1: and the idea that they're going to replace the corporate

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Speaker 1: tax rate with with a with a wealth tax, because

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Speaker 1: the reason that a wealth tax wasn't on the table

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Speaker 1: in the first places. That's even as you guys were

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Speaker 1: just discussing. That's really hard to do, both politically and administratively. Um.

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Speaker 1: It feels a lot like they're just grasping at whatever

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Speaker 1: they can and we're playing a Washington game where we're

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out who is leaking what, And it

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Speaker 1: feels like, uh, this latest round of news is coming

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Speaker 1: from the cinema camp because they want people to understand

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Speaker 1: that she's not backing down, that she's she's trying to

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Speaker 1: provide solutions. Um. But I don't know that there's a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of buy in with the rest of the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Caucus that this is a good approach. So you know,

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Speaker 1: what's real and what's not. We're we're trying to really

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Speaker 1: to really stuss out. But I don't think of well,

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Speaker 1: pack is necessarily something that they can just pick up

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Speaker 1: off the shelf and say, uh, well, here's our solution.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of work to do to even just

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Speaker 1: construct something like that. It would take a very long time.

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Speaker 1: I have to admit, Genie, when we're talking about Kirston Cinema,

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Speaker 1: Joe Manchion day in, day out, My god, they just

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Speaker 1: get so much air time. If you were paying attention

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Speaker 1: to what they were saying. This technically is not new, right,

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Speaker 1: you just we have to keep going back to the

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Speaker 1: trough here to say are you sure? Are you sure

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Speaker 1: you don't like this? I mean, should should we have

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Speaker 1: known in advance that Kirston Cinema was going to blow

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Speaker 1: up this whole idea? Well, you know, Kirston Cinema has

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Speaker 1: not spoken obviously to the press or the public, but

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Speaker 1: she has been speaking a lot to the White House,

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Speaker 1: and so I'd be surprised if they didn't know. And

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Speaker 1: of course Schumer knew about mansion. But we find out

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Speaker 1: back in the summer. I read the news release last

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Speaker 1: night announcing the Trump Media and Technology Group. The first

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Speaker 1: thing I thought was, Okay, finally launching Trump TV. Remember

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Speaker 1: that Trump TV? And well that wasn't exactly the goal.

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Speaker 1: It actually may not be that far off. As the

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Speaker 1: former president rolls out a spack deal with Digital world

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Speaker 1: acquisition corps and effort to launch what will be the

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Speaker 1: next big thing in social media. Stock went nuts today,

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Speaker 1: a three bagger. As we begin our coverage here on

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Speaker 1: sound On with Bloomberg Stocks reporter Dailey lips Sheltz carries

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Speaker 1: the byline Trump's back deal draws Yolo crowd in case

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Speaker 1: you're wondering, by the way, Yolo, you only live once.

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Speaker 1: Hey Bailey, thanks for being with us. I think triple today,

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Speaker 1: huh Yeah, the stock triple there was the most traded

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Speaker 1: asset on the Fidelity platform, so that geared towards individual investors,

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Speaker 1: obviously seeing tremendous volume over four hundred million years trading.

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Speaker 1: So Wall Street actually obviously having a bit of a

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Speaker 1: hand in the massive run up. But as you said,

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Speaker 1: up just over closing at uh really was the story

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Speaker 1: of the day within the stock market, talking really to anyone,

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Speaker 1: whether it was a Wall Street prower, an individual investor

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Speaker 1: who was patrolling you know, Reddit or other social media platforms. Amazing,

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Speaker 1: so much for SPACs being out of style here. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a pretty remarkable debut for any stock here.

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Speaker 1: Is it? Is it the lure of the Trump name

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Speaker 1: or the idea that he's launching a new social media platform.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a bit of both. I've talked to

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Speaker 1: some people, um who really just said, you know, the

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Speaker 1: stock is similar to cryptocurrency, where it's trading off of fundamentals,

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Speaker 1: people just buying and selling it, trying to make a

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Speaker 1: quick stuff. But I also was talking to some investors

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Speaker 1: who were saying, you know, they view the kind of

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Speaker 1: more right wing conservative potential for attracting a platform. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: he had millions and millions followers on Twitter and Facebook,

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Speaker 1: so if he's able to successfully roll it out, there

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Speaker 1: is very much an untapped potential for users because people

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Speaker 1: are obviously on everything from Instagram to Twitter to Facebook.

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Speaker 1: So it could be uh potentially successful, but it doesn't

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Speaker 1: have it. It's not rolled out yet. A beta platform

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Speaker 1: will be rolling out in November. They're not expecting a

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Speaker 1: nation national rollout until the first quarter of next year.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of fans there for for kind of

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Speaker 1: an early ending story is that when the deal will

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Speaker 1: be done, When is the actual merger take place? Really well,

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Speaker 1: they just announced it today. Obviously, SPACs have been known

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Speaker 1: to kind of have ebbs and flows, so that was

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Speaker 1: just that was just the announcement, So it was not

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Speaker 1: that they were closing obviously where we work trade it

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Speaker 1: for the first day to day that would a closed,

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Speaker 1: uh successfully merged back deal. This one still not brunch

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Speaker 1: detail on when it will actually be publicly traded and

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Speaker 1: have to go through a number of obstacles before that

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Speaker 1: is completed. Okay, great reporting, Bailey Lipschalter, Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us here on sound on Bailey and joining

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Speaker 1: me in studio is Bloomberg National political reporter Mark Niquett.

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Speaker 1: It's great to see a Mark. I'm lucky that you

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Speaker 1: here with us to talk through this today. I can

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Speaker 1: only imagine what went through your mind when you saw

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Speaker 1: this news release last night, as it says Trump Media

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Speaker 1: and Technology Group will soon be launching a social network

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Speaker 1: named Truth Social. So is everyone who followed him on

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Speaker 1: Twitter gonna go here? Well, I think that's what they're

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Speaker 1: counting on. Um, because we've been waiting for a long

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Speaker 1: time for Trump to rule out something something. The expectation

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Speaker 1: was he was going to try to get back to

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Speaker 1: social media in some way, just because um, he doesn't

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Speaker 1: think he said that he doesn't think he would have

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Speaker 1: been re elected. He would have would have been elected

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Speaker 1: in sixteen, if you didn't have access to Twitter and

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Speaker 1: you could directly connect with eighty nine million people, um

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Speaker 1: and you use Facebook very successfully to fundraise. But it

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Speaker 1: was always a question about how would Trump get back

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Speaker 1: on social media. Would you acquire an existing platform and

430
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 1: rebranded as Trump Twitter or try and start something from scratch,

431
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 1: which you know most people doubted because of how expensive

432
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 1: and time consuming and difficult that would be. UM And

433
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 1: it's still unclear what this this Trump you know media

434
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 1: Technology group is actually gonna look like. Uh, you know,

435
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 1: like you said, they're talking about rolling out the UM

436
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 1: uh sort of the Twitter component of this UM Truth

437
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: Social UM you know, first quarter of two. But you know,

438
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 1: we don't know what that's gonna look like. If this

439
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 1: is new something they're creating from scratch, or if they're

440
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 1: gonna buy something and rebranded. UM. We're still looking for

441
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: for details on this. I just I clicked on Truth

442
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,120
Speaker 1: Social dot com. There is something there, but to your point,

443
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 1: you can't see a lot other than an opportunity to

444
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: pre order on the Apple app stores. You can go

445
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,719
Speaker 1: get it on your phone or whatever right now. Uh uh.

446
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: They write in the news release the aim of the

447
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,719
Speaker 1: deal is to rival quote the liberal media consortium and

448
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 1: fight back against the big tech companies of Silicon Valley.

449
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 1: So this is just sort of retribution for being kicked

450
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: off of everything, right, But there's also you know a

451
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: sense in in Republican circles that big tech social media

452
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 1: Twitter and Facebook in particular sensors conservatives and sensors Trump. Um.

453
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 1: You see it daily on Twitter that um, you know,

454
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 1: the Taliban could be on Twitter, but not President Trump. Um.

455
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 1: And of course he was kicked off because of you know,

456
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 1: you know, questions about whether he actually incited his supporters

457
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: to you know, tack the capital on January six. So

458
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 1: it's not like it was for nothing that you know,

459
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: he was removed from these platforms. Certainly. Yes. Now with

460
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: with all of that said, uh, Mark, this could be

461
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: a lot more than just a a social network. Once

462
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 1: you have this company, once this merger takes place, you

463
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: could buy a news network. You could start a news network.

464
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: So many people talked about that towards the close of

465
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,199
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump's term. You know, he can't wait to

466
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 1: just get it back on TV and and be able

467
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 1: to own it. Do you see that type of thing

468
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: in his future? Well, they're kind of suggesting that that's

469
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: what this you know, new entity could be that I

470
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 1: would have multiple platforms. The would be like a like

471
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: a Twitter platform, this this truth social. Um they're talking

472
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 1: about a subscription digital streaming service for video, which could

473
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: be like you know, Trump TV or something that rivals

474
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: Netflix or competes with other streaming services. Um. So again

475
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: they're talking about sort of a multi platform media conglomerate

476
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: or entity. But you know, we still have yet to

477
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: see the details of how all that's going to be

478
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: structured and and how this is all going to get created.

479
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 1: Could buy a news Max or an o N or

480
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: something like that. Are you are you open to these possibilities? Well,

481
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 1: and that's a question, you know, as part of this

482
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: going to be something that's completely created from scratch, or

483
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: wouldn corporate existing platforms and technologies or networks and be

484
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: sort of a distribution channel. Yes, absolutely so instead of

485
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: sending a tweet in this case, you'd send a truth

486
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: is that we're going to call it? I guess that's

487
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: the idea. Okay, he's pretty good at this, pretty good

488
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 1: at the branding bit. The spack more than quadruples at

489
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 1: one point of forty five dollars more than four hundred

490
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: seventy million shares. Uh, Mark, there's still something there. Huh well,

491
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,479
Speaker 1: And I think they have an audience for this year.

492
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: If you have any nine million people following you on Twitter,

493
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: I think the idea is there's there's people who want

494
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 1: to join a built in and captive audience. Mark Dequette

495
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg National political reporter. Great to have you, Mark,

496
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us here on sound On. You're

497
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg. You sound on with Joe Matthew on

498
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. But will there be kofefe on truth Social?

499
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 1: These are the questions. As we learned, Donald Trump is

500
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: launching his own social media platform through a Spack deal

501
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: just announced with Digital World acquisition that tripled today on

502
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: news of this deal, and we reassemble the panel to

503
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: talk about it with Bloomberg Politics contributor Jeanie Chantino and

504
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: Brendan Buck, partner at seven Letter, former spokesman and advisor

505
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: to how speaker Paul Ryan, you remember how to call fefe? Genie?

506
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: I do? You just brought back some great, great memories

507
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: And of course I'm still back on this. Now we

508
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: have to think about truth thing. In addition to tweeting,

509
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: I think truth. I haven't even gotten to the tweeting yet,

510
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,719
Speaker 1: so I'm way behind. I just love the idea of

511
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: sending a truth. Brendon, you sign up for this yet

512
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: you got it on the phone. I would say that

513
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: I will believe it when I see it act together enough.

514
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: Jason Miller will be glad to hear that. Wait, so

515
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: you're you're not buying into this, Brendan, is this just

516
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: a news release to get me to talk about it? Well?

517
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: Donald Trump has a long history of telling us what

518
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: he's going to do, nothing that he's actually done, and

519
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 1: so you know he a well go through with it, um,

520
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: just like I think a lot of us doubt it

521
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 1: he would run for president UM. And imagine certainly many many,

522
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: many examples, particularly when he said he's going to sue

523
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: somebody where it never actually comes to fruition. So it

524
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: just seems like a lot of work for somebody who,

525
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: in my opinion, looks like he's actually more interested in

526
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: running president, and I think that's probably his priority above

527
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: starting a media company. This could though, be a platform

528
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: to do that, Is it right, Jennie? If he's not

529
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: allowed on Twitter or Facebook. He needs to have some access,

530
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: some way to talk to people outside of you know,

531
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: yelling on the stump every other night. Social media is

532
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: the way he did that so successfully. Well, that's right,

533
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: And you know, to Brendan's point that there was the

534
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: from the desk of Donald J. Trump, I believe it

535
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: was called blog who you know about twenty thirty days

536
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: We had that in the spring, that went by the wayside.

537
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: They're trying this. The reaction seems much more positive. So

538
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: you know, unlike most presidents, he's not going you know,

539
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 1: and building his library doing that kind of thing. He

540
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: is coming back on social media, most likely because he

541
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: has a real interest in not just relitigating the election

542
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: as he's doing, but potentially running for office and certainly

543
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: keeping his control over the Republican Party. But you know,

544
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: it's a long way between what we're seeing now and

545
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 1: what we see saw later rolled out today, And certainly

546
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 1: the reaction on Wall Street was positive and him actually

547
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: getting a working platform out there with eighty million users

548
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: or whatever he had on Twitter. Yeah, those are two

549
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: very different things. And I do wonder, by the way,

550
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 1: to what that's what's going to happen to that stock

551
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 1: tomorrow after running up threefold today, I do wonder, but

552
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: you know, look, we can joke about coffe. I'm the

553
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: one who said it. There is a serious aspect to

554
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: this for conservatives who feel like they do not have

555
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: a home on social media or or in big tech

556
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: for instance. We all remember this our case. We'll prove

557
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: this censorship is unlawful, it's unconstitutional, and it's completely Unamerican.

558
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: Donald Trump in July, as he filed yet another lawsuit

559
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: against tech companies for censorship. Is that a word that

560
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: you use Brendan for for conservatives, even Republicans who may

561
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: not associate themselves with Trump, do you feel like views

562
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: are being stifled by the Google's, the YouTube's, the twitters

563
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: of the world. I, I personally do not. Um. And

564
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: I think it's important to appreciate why Donald Trump was

565
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: removed from these platforms, and it was because of all

566
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: the actions surrounding January six and leading up to it

567
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: in the election and all of that misinformation. UM. I

568
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: think conservatives still have a very large platform and books

569
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: on social media. If you look at the top ten

570
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: Facebook posts every day, it's usually, uh, somebody conservative. But

571
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: what this is is it plays into Donald Trump's populist

572
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: victimhood narrative, and it's that the elites are out to

573
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: get him and his supporters and itself. And he uses

574
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: that very effectively to say that he's fighting on behalf

575
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: of the little people and they're targeting him because he's

576
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: fighting for them. Um. And it's all very circular, but

577
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: it works for him. Um. I think that it's a

578
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: fight that you know, he doesn't mind having. I think

579
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: you'd rather be on Twitter. But if he can't be

580
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: on Twitter, I think he loves to take advantage of

581
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: these things and say that he's the victim. Once again.

582
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: I appreciate your view on that, Brendan, but it's it's

583
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,959
Speaker 1: not just fringe genie. I mean, depending on you can

584
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: use the labels. With Kevin McCarthy, the minority leader in

585
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: the House, a lot of lawmakers who are still in

586
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: elected office here in Washington say they are censored every

587
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: day by the major social media platforms and by the

588
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: big tech companies in many cases that don't even have one.

589
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: That's right. This has been the argument from Republicans and

590
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: conservatives right along. You know, liberals have their own you know,

591
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: beef with the social media companies. The big tech companies.

592
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: But for conservatives it has been that they are being stifled,

593
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: they are being kicked off. I have talked to personally

594
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: many conservatives who have said they themselves have been victim,

595
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: as they describe it, of big tech pulling them off

596
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: the platforms. So this is I mean, you know, I

597
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: was joking about it, but this argument is something that reson.

598
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: It's with people across the country who are frustrated with

599
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: the amount of power that people like Mark Zuckerberg and

600
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: other you know, big tech providers and social media companies have,

601
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: And you know, I have to say, when you have

602
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: a former president who isn't allowed on the biggest platforms,

603
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: it is something that frustrates people. One of the other stories,

604
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: and they kind of tie in together today, is this

605
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: vote to hold Steve Bannon in criminal contempt of Congress.

606
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: If only we could send a truth on this, it

607
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: actually did happen today. This follows the initial move to

608
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: hold him in contempt at the House indeed voted to hold.

609
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: This is the full House Steve Bannon in criminal contempt

610
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: of Congress, which will now go to the Department of Justice. Right,

611
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: they refer this to d o J, which will then

612
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: decide whether there should be criminal charges, and if so,

613
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: Steve Bannon could in fact be going to jail. As

614
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: we heard from Representative Liz Cheney earlier today, no friend

615
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: of Camp Trump and in fact one of the only

616
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: Republicans on the January six Commission, he must have been

617
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: aware of and may well have been involved in the

618
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: planning of everything that played out on that day. The

619
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: American people deserve to know what he knew and what

620
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: he did. Brendan, We've talked about this on this program before.

621
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,959
Speaker 1: It's been suggested that this is in fact good potentially

622
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: for Steve Bannon's brand. Is it good for Trump's brand? Well,

623
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: you know, I think brand decide. I think we should

624
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: appreciate that this is a serious matter. And um, a

625
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: lot of times you hear people talk about like centers

626
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: and congressional terms, but like criminal contempt is a real deal,

627
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: and like you can go to jail and and it's

628
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: serious and doesn't happen very often. And I think what

629
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: this is going to show all those other nineteen witnesses

630
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: that that committee is talking to is that don't mess

631
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: around here, because we'll come after you. And uh, you know,

632
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: this is the type of thing that rarely happens, because

633
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: usually people will understand that and they work together and

634
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: they come to some type of accommodation and they and

635
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: they cooperate. Um. I always, as I was saying before,

636
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: everything comes back in Trump world to being the victim

637
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: and to being targeted by deal eaves. And so yeah,

638
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure that Steve Bannon can use it to his advantage.

639
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: Donald Trump can use it to his advantage. But this

640
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: is not a game I would be willing to play

641
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: because I don't think you want to find yourself with

642
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: the chance of being behind bars, which I think he

643
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,479
Speaker 1: really has a legitimate chance of. You still believe that, Genie,

644
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: that we could see Steve Bannon and handcuffs over this.

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00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: And if that's the case, what does this mean for

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00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: Mark Meadows. We haven't heard anything about the former chief

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00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: of staff since we were told he was quote engaging

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00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: with the committee. That's right, And you know, I think

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00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: one of the stunning things today is we watched this

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00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: vote play out, was the fact that only nine Republicans

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00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: voted to hold Steve Bannon in contempt. Let's let's not forget,

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00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: you know, setting aside that this is about January six

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00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: and all of those things. This is about whether Congress

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Speaker 1: has its power of oversight, and when republic Blikans are

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00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: in a position of power, they do have the important

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00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: role of oversight over the executive branch and investigations and

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00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 1: when when they issue a subpoena that really should be

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00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: abided by. And of course Steve Bannon claiming executive privileges

659
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: is something of a joke. But you're right, Mark Meadows

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00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: and the others, you know, they have we've heard been

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00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: engaging with the committee, and you know, I see Mark

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00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,760
Speaker 1: Meadows as different than Steve been. And to the extent

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00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 1: that Steve Bannon wanted, he wants this, this works for him.

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Speaker 1: I don't think Mark Meadows wants this, you know, So

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00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 1: I think he'll cooperate, um, you know, to a certain

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00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: extent and try to avoid a year in jail. Yet,

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00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: to Jeanie's point, the vote was to twenty nine to

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00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 1: two o two nine Republicans. As Jennie said, branking ranks

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00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: ranks to vote with Democrats and hold Steve Bannon uh

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00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: in contempt. Brendan, I don't know what you think about

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00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: the statement from Steve Scalise, but you've got a member

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00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: of the House Republican leadership the House with who is

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00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 1: in fact urging members to vote against the measure before

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00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: this vote was taken, your whipping whipping members to say

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00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: no to this. Uh is that good for the party

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00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: or is that good only for Donald Trump? Yeah? You know,

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00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: I actually imagine they didn't have to work too hard

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00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: to get people to vote no on this. Look, the

679
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 1: party has made a bet that they need Donald Trump

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00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: on their side, and that they can't turn out Republican

681
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: voters in the midterm election unless they are engaged. And

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00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: I think a lot of them have learned the hard

683
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: way that fighting with them, um, doesn't really work politically. Uh.

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00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: So you know, I think the only votes you saw

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00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: for the contempt on the Republican side with those same

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00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: people just about who voted to impeach the president. Um.

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00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 1: And and I salute them. I think that this was

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00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: the right thing to do. Uh. As I said, Uh,

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00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: you know, Congress has an authority, and if you're a

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00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,240
Speaker 1: member of Congress, you should want to protect that authority.

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00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 1: And by saying that you can just look the other way. UM,

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00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: I think that that it weakens the institution and fundamentally

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00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: and that and that's wrong. But I think we've also

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00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: seen that the power of Donald Trump and what he

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00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: has uh the effect he has on on base voters,

696
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: their voters really takes the day time and time again,

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00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: and so I don't think they had to assert a

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00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: whole lot of pressure to get Republicans to vote now,

699
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: because they know locally their own politics, their own political incentives,

700
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: it works for them. Speaking of leadership, Kevin McCarthy was

701
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: asked about that whipping votes against the measure, Genie. He said,

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00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: that's because it's an invalid subpoena and it's not a

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00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: real committee. Is there any truth to that? No, there's

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00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: no truth to that. You have a bipartisan committee. You know.

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00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: The reason we didn't have more of a bipartisan committee

706
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: was because they refused to play ball with the Democrats.

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Speaker 1: That's the first time that that has happened. Genie Chanzano

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Speaker 1: and Brendan Buck a great panel on an important day

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Speaker 1: here in political history, aren't they kind of all lately?

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Speaker 1: That's why we have the fastest hour in politics. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for spending ND with us. I'll meet you back here

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Speaker 1: tomorrow on Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg,