1 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 2 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: name is Joe McCormick. Today is Saturday, so we are 3 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: heading into the vault for an older episode of the podcast. 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: This is part one of a two part series that 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: we did called Strange Ice, originally published January thirtieth, twenty 6 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: twenty four. Let's get right in. 7 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 8 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 3: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 3: is Robert Lamb. 10 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: And I am Joe McCormick. And today on Stuff to 11 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind, we are going to be talking about ice. Now. 12 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: This is relevant to us personally because down here in 13 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: Atlanta we have just come out of a long stretch 14 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: of very very cold weather. 15 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah, we had quite a cold snow lingered 16 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 3: around for many days there. We didn't get any of 17 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 3: the snow. They got a lot of snow north of US, 18 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 3: and you know, certainly in like Tennessee for example, and 19 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 3: I think parts of northern Georgia, but down here we 20 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 3: didn't see that. Instead, we just got cold temperatures and 21 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 3: we got ice. 22 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: I should's bestfy it was cold weather for Atlanta, because 23 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: obviously we get sneered at by you know, people who 24 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: live in they're really they're really freezing climbs, that's right. 25 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, like a lot of people, it was, 26 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 3: you know, it was unseasonably cold. So I was noticing 27 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 3: things that I hadn't noticed before in my immediate environment. 28 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 3: And one of these things right outside of the window 29 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 3: where we eat our breakfast, we have a bird bath, 30 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 3: and the bird bath was full of water. I probably 31 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 3: should have emptied it because anytime the water freezes in 32 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 3: the bird bath, it like cracks the plastic at the bottom, 33 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 3: and then once everything melts and dries out, I have 34 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 3: to like superglue it again so that it will hold water. 35 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 3: But you know, it's still it's amusing, especially for my 36 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 3: son when all that freezes up. Except this time, there 37 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 3: was a little something extra going on. And it's something 38 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 3: that I know a number of you out there have 39 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,119 Speaker 3: experienced as well. And if you haven't experienced it, maybe 40 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 3: you've seen pictures or footage of it from other people 41 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 3: having this experience. But you go out to the bird bath, 42 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 3: it is of course frozen solid, except there's this little 43 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 3: extra bit. There's a spike emerging. And generally it's like 44 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 3: diagonally from the bird bath, as if there's like some 45 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 3: sort of sentient like death spike, or in some cases 46 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 3: kind of a cone or pyramid or inverted pyramid emerging 47 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 3: out of the ice. 48 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. I've seen this in different forms, often with like 49 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: a bird bath. I feel like I've seen it in 50 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: the form of something that looks like a like a 51 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: vase or yeah, more like a cone. But I'm familiar 52 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: with it also just in the freezer making ice cubes. 53 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: Occasionally I think, if you know, if conditions in the 54 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: freezer are just right, you'll put in the tray of 55 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: ice cubes and you'll pull them out and they'll have 56 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: like what looks like, I don't know, the outline of 57 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: a comet impact on the surface of the ice cube, 58 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: frozen in time exactly. Yeah. 59 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. So again, this is a fairly common occurrence, but 60 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 3: it doesn't seem to take away from the novelty of 61 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 3: ice spikes. And there are a lot of explainer articles 62 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 3: concerning ice spikes out there, but one of the older 63 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 3: ones I came across was a letter published in the 64 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 3: journal Nature on March seventh, nineteen thirty one, and it 65 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 3: was written by Arthur Morley, Davies, who lived eighteen sixty 66 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 3: nine through nineteen fifty nine. He was a staunch critic 67 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 3: of creationism and an author of the nineteen thirty seven 68 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 3: book Evolution and Its Modern Critics. 69 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: I'm picturing the Statler and Waldorf. 70 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 3: So you know, learned man scientist and author. But in 71 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 3: this article I was amused because he's doing just what 72 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 3: I was doing and what many of us are still 73 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 3: doing today, gazing at this sudden weird ice in a 74 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 3: bird bath and just trying to figure out what's going on, 75 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 3: kind of guessing at it, and also calling up friends 76 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 3: and being like, hey, you'd never believe what I saw 77 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 3: this morning is quite curious. Let's talk about what's going 78 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 3: on here. So I'm going to read just a bit 79 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 3: from it here, he says, quote. I am indebted to 80 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 3: a number of my colleagues, and particularly to Professor Ao 81 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 3: Rankin and doctor H. T Ellingham for a very interesting 82 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 3: discussion of this phenomenon. The most feasible explanation appears to 83 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 3: be that freezing began as usual at the margin of 84 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 3: the surface of the water, and ice crystals grew inward 85 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 3: until the surface was completely frozen except for a triangular 86 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 3: area in the center. At this stage, there was a 87 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 3: rapid fall of temperature, and the water below the surface 88 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 3: began to freeze quickly. The expansion accompanying solidification caused the 89 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 3: excess of volume to be forced through the triangular aperture, 90 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 3: the water freezing as it rose. And that sounds pretty good, right, yeah, yeah, 91 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 3: And this is roughly what I was thinking about as well. 92 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,239 Speaker 3: I think the morning that we saw the ice spike, 93 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 3: we were going somewhere. I think it was like super cold, 94 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 3: but we were like, Okay, I guess we're going to 95 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 3: go to Ikia or something. So we looked at the 96 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 3: ice spike and we got in the car, and then 97 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 3: I was just kind of thinking about the ice spike, 98 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 3: and I was like, well, I guess what's probably happening 99 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 3: is such and such, And it sounds like I was 100 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 3: mostly correct. The oldest writings on the formation of these 101 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 3: ice spikes that I could come across they seem to 102 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 3: go back a decade or so earlier to nineteen twenty one. 103 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 3: This is when H. E. Dorsey wrote about it. Apparently, 104 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 3: another author that is credited is O. Bali or Bally 105 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 3: also wrote about it. Thus it is often referred to 106 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 3: as the Bally Dorsey theory of spicule formation on sweet pellets. 107 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 3: So who's this Dorsey, gentleman, Well, this would be American engineer, inventor, 108 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 3: and physicist Herbert Grove Dorsey who lived eighteen seventy six 109 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 3: through nineteen sixty one, who invented and patented the first 110 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 3: practical pathometer for phathometer I suppose for determining water depth 111 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 3: in nineteen twenty eight, along with many other inventions, though 112 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 3: that might be the biggest one. He was principal engineer 113 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 3: for the United States Coast and Geodetic Survey Radiosonic Laboratory 114 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 3: in the nineteen thirties. He studied the formation of ice 115 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 3: spikes in a laboratory setting, and he theorized that the 116 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 3: increase in volume for the freezing ice forced water up 117 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 3: through an opening in the ice covering, creating a tube 118 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 3: that grows at the tip. And this does remain the 119 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 3: most widely accepted theory of what's going on here. 120 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: But from what I understand, the conditions have to be 121 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: just right to form an ice spike, right, like, if 122 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: it's either too warm or too cold below freezing, either 123 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: way it will it will inhibit the formation of the spike. 124 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah, I was reading about the work of 125 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 3: physicist Kenneth Librecht, who conducted a study of ice spikes 126 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 3: in two thousand and three and found that there's kind 127 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 3: of like a Goldilock zone for ice spike formation. You 128 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 3: want it to be roughly twenty degrees fairnheigh. That's negative 129 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 3: seven degrees celsius, more or less colder than that, and 130 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 3: spikes don't form hotter than that, and the ice doesn't 131 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 3: form fast enough to generate a spike. Also, the quality 132 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 3: of water plays apart, so pure water, according to this 133 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 3: individual's experiments, seemed to be important. He found that with 134 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 3: salt content he saw a reduction in the likelihood of 135 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 3: ice spikes, and in his experiments, tap water didn't work 136 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 3: at all. Now, granted, tap water is going to vary 137 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 3: from place to place, but yeah, it seems like pure 138 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 3: water is going to be your best option here. 139 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that the formation of spikes in 140 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: freezing water, that process is dependent on the peculiar fact 141 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: that water, unlike most substances, bands rather than contract as 142 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: it freezes. So and you know, a lot of things 143 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: actually on Earth and in life in the universe are 144 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: dependent on the fact that water expands instead of contracting 145 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: as it freezes. So if water contracted and became more 146 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: dense as it froze, water would sink to like ice 147 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: would sink to the bottom of bodies of water instead 148 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: of floating on top, which would you know, radically change 149 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: the way life works on Earth. I think I've read 150 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: some arguments before that it like if that were physically 151 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: the case, it would sort of make life on Earth 152 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: near impossible because like when water started freezing on top, 153 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: it would essentially instead of insulating the water below with 154 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: the ice layer on top, the ice would sink to 155 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 1: the bottom and then the whole column of water would freeze, 156 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: and then you know, it would kill all the life 157 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: forms in it, or at least freeze them. So that's 158 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: an extremely consequential outcome of the fact that the water 159 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: expands instead of contracting when it freezes. But also we 160 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: get these ice bikes. So like, yeah, like you explained, rob, 161 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: you've got to contain of water and it starts freezing 162 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: from the outside in. You can imagine it sort of 163 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: forms a shell of ice in a way around this 164 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: mass of liquid water and this the liquid water in 165 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: the middle. It starts to freeze, it needs somewhere to 166 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: go because it's expanding in the freezing process. So if 167 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 1: there's only like a hole left in the surface, it's 168 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: going to start squeezing out through that hole and freezing 169 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: as it squeezes out and just freezes taller and taller 170 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: and taller. For liquids that shrink in volume as they freeze, 171 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: this would never happen, right, right. 172 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 3: So it's yeah, it's it's a fun little thing to 173 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 3: observe at the at a frozen bird bath or inside 174 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 3: of a freezer if conditions are right and there. So 175 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 3: in this episode, as you've probably guessed, this is roughly 176 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 3: what we're going to be talking about, various examples of 177 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 3: what you might call strange eyes, strange water ice, and 178 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 3: we have some some fun ones to discuss here. 179 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm going to talk about a bizarre haunting 180 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: genre of ice formation, referred to as nieves penet tents 181 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: Spanish for penitent snows, or sometimes they're just called penitentes, 182 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: meaning penitents, So depending on what you read, they're named 183 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: after their resemblance either to maybe human figures kneeling in prayer, 184 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: or more often to monks marching in religious processions, especially 185 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: the kind you might see with like the pointed hoods 186 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 1: worn in Spanish Catholic celebrations of Holy Week. These formations 187 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 1: are sometimes described as standing blades, pinnacles, towers, or columns 188 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: of ice. They can reach up to a maximum of 189 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: four or five meters in height in the settings where 190 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: they're most commonly found, though I found some claims of 191 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: penitents or penitent like formations in other cases reaching even higher, 192 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,719 Speaker 1: But the numbers I've seen for the Andes where they're 193 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: most often seen are four or five meters. They can 194 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: be found in high mountain ranges, especially the Andes in 195 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: South America, at elevations of about four thousand meters above 196 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: sea level or more. They're generally oriented so that the 197 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: blades point toward the path of the sun, point toward 198 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: the noontime sun, and they can occupy whole fields or hillsides, which, 199 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: if you go with the analogy of their namesake, forms 200 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: the impression of a vast, uncountable crowd of worshippers or 201 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: of maybe monks gathering at the end of a great 202 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 1: procession or pilgrimage. 203 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's some very evocative photos of these who included 204 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 3: some in the outline. Some of these are I feel 205 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 3: like they're just the kind of thing that are just 206 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 3: ripped from the sorts of wallpapers that come included with 207 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 3: various Apple products, you know, like it's that kind of 208 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 3: like stunning, serene imagery. 209 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, So, looking at the photos, I totally understand 210 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: the comparison to kneeling or marching human bodies, but personally, 211 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: I'm struck with how much they can sometimes look like 212 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: a naturally occurring maze with chaotic corridors and pathways that 213 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: are bounded by these thin, jagged ridges of ice. So 214 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: to me, some of these landscapes and they can take 215 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: you know, they have different sizes and orientations and stuff, 216 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 1: so they don't all look the same. But some of 217 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: the Penitente landscapes look like a frost magic variant of 218 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: a xenomorph colony was using their structural mucous secretions to 219 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: approximate a human hedge maze. 220 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it does have that kind of feeling a 221 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 3: very alien landscape, especially the case in these images you 222 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 3: shared here where we see human beings standing amid these blades. 223 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that can create a very creepy feeling you 224 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 1: see people posing with them. Sometimes they're you know, as 225 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: tall as the person or taller, and it's as if 226 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: either they're standing in a crowd or maybe standing in 227 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: a kind of forest or maze. And the other objects 228 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: here are not people or trees or hedges or whatever, 229 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: but they are giant, rippling, blade like shards of ice. Now, 230 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 1: one famous historical description of these features can be found 231 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: in Charles Darwin's Voyage of the Beagle. This is a 232 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: work we've talked about on the show a number of 233 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: times before, but it's the published memoir of Charles Darwin's 234 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: five year journey around the world on the British Royal 235 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: Navy survey ship, the HMS Bagle, during which journey Darwin 236 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: made geological and biological observations which would later form the 237 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: basis of his theory of evolution by natural selection. But 238 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 1: this book was from before on the origin of species. 239 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: This book is just full of interesting observations about the 240 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: world and about nature from Darwin's travels, and it helps 241 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: for the reading that Darwin, I think is a very 242 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 1: good writer of prose. So for context, the time of 243 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: the entry where Darwin's going to talk about penitentes is 244 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: March eighteen, thirty thirty five, Darwin and his traveling party 245 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: are in the middle of the Andes Mountains. So this 246 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: is a part of the journey where he's off the 247 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: ship and he's traveling around in South America. They're in 248 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: the middle of the Andes and they are making an 249 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: overland journey from Santiago, Chile to the city of Mendoza 250 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 1: in modern day Argentina. And on the course of this track, 251 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: Darwin makes a number of very scientifically interesting observations, including 252 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: coming across a petrified forest in the barren reaches of 253 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: the High Desert, and also discovering some fossil seashells embedded 254 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: in rocks way up in the mountains. Darwin writes quote 255 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: shells which were once crawling on the bottom of the 256 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: sea now standing nearly fourteen thousand feet above its level. 257 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: So the entries of the journal I'm going to look 258 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: at are from around March twenty first to March twenty second, 259 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: and a Darwin's party they've just emerged from a mountain 260 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: pass called Puquines and they are headed toward another mountain 261 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: pass called the Portillo Pass. And so March late March 262 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: I was thinking of winter trans aditioning to spring. But 263 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: that's then I realized, oh, that's northern hemisphere brain talking. 264 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: This is the southern hemisphere, so that's actually summer turning 265 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: into autumn. So this is I think a late time 266 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: of the year to be trying to make this journey. 267 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: Now is an interesting note before we get to the 268 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: ice formations. I did just want to mention something that 269 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: caught my attention from the journal entry from March twenty first. 270 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: Darwin says he and his companions have made their way 271 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: into a high mountainous country between two mountain ranges, and again, 272 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: this is apparently late in the season for travel. Darwin 273 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: fears what would happen if there's bad weather because there 274 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: is not much there's not really anywhere for them to 275 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: take shelter, and he says that they are able to 276 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: build what he calls a miserable fire out of the 277 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: only available fuel, which are the roots of an unspecified 278 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: scrubby plant. And he says that the wind was piercingly cold. 279 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 3: I'm getting shades of Bilbo is there about the journey 280 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 3: through the misty mountains here? 281 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: Oh that's funny. Yeah, No, lyrics of songs are included Unfortunately, here. 282 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 3: Does he complain about the lack of food though. 283 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: Oh you know, Darwin had to have second breakfast, and 284 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: in fact there are complaints about food coming right up. 285 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: So Darwin is about to explain troubles they had cooking 286 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: their food, which connects to an interesting fact we've talked 287 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: about in some of our episodes on high altitudes in 288 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: the past. So Darwin writes, quote, at the place where 289 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: we slept, water necessarily boiled from the diminished pressure of 290 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: the atmosphere had a lower temperature than it does in 291 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: a less lofty country, the case being the converse of 292 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: that of a Papan's digester. Now a quick note here. 293 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: Papan's digester was basically a pressure cooker. It was an 294 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: early pressure cooker invented in the seventeenth century by the 295 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: French physicist Denis Papan. So Darwin is saying that the 296 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: high elevation at his camp is functioning like a reverse 297 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: pressure cooker. Inside a pressure cooker, you increase the boiling 298 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: point of water closing it and having a higher pressure, 299 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: allowing the food to cook faster. At his camp, and 300 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: the low pressure up there it lowers the boiling point 301 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: of water instead of increasing it. So he goes on 302 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: to say, quote, hence the potatoes, after remaining for some 303 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: hours in the boiling water, were nearly as hard as ever. 304 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 1: The pot was left on the fire all night, and 305 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 1: next morning it was boiled again, But yet the potatoes 306 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: were not cooked. I found out this by overhearing my 307 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: two companions discussing the cause. They had come to the 308 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: simple conclusion quote, that the cursed pot, which was a 309 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: new one, did not choose to boil potatoes. Oh wow, 310 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 1: this pot hates potatoes. So a couple of things here. 311 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: First of all, what Darwin says about cooking at high 312 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: elevation is absolutely true. We've discussed this on the show before. 313 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: The higher you go above sea level, the less atmospheric 314 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: pressure there is, so there's less atmosphere sitting on you. 315 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: The lower the atmospheric pressure, the lower the boiling point 316 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: of water at that elevation. I don't know exactly what 317 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: elevation Darwin was at the point he was cooking here, 318 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: but the highest elevation he mentions in the surrounding text 319 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 1: is fourteen thousand feet, and according to a chart I 320 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: found on the internet, at fourteen thousand feet, the boiling 321 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: point of water is about one hundred and eighty six 322 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: degrees fahrenheit or eighty six degrees c Of course, in 323 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: a regular pot, water cannot get hotter than its boiling point, 324 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: which means there's a limit to how hot you can 325 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: get the food you're trying to cook in the water. 326 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: And as an experiment, I was like, well, I wonder 327 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: what a potato cook to one hundred and eighty six 328 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: degrees fahrenheit is like. So I did this yesterday with 329 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: the aid of a probe thermometer in my toaster oven. 330 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: So it was a dry cooking method, not a wet one. 331 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 1: Not not a perfect comparison, but the results were that, 332 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: you know, the potato cook to one eighty six fahrenheit 333 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: was not good, but not inedible. I would say a 334 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: potato definitely should be cooked to a higher temperature in 335 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: order to be in enjoyable. You know, if I was 336 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: making a baked potato and doing an internal temperature, I 337 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: would take it to like two oh eight fahrenheit. You 338 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: need to take it to almost the boiling point of water. 339 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: And this potato I did to one eighty six was 340 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: not fluffy. It was still kind of firm, but also 341 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: you know, it was cooked enough that I assumed somebody 342 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: climbing through the mountains would settle for it. So I 343 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: wonder if there were any other factors at play that 344 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: made it even less well done than my one hundred 345 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: and eighty six fahrenheit potato. I'm not sure, but potato 346 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 1: thoughts aside. The other thing I wanted to come back 347 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: to is an interesting case of connections in the Burkian sense. 348 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: Here Denis Papan's steam digest, which, again this is an 349 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: early seventeenth century pressure cooker, was actually an important inspiration 350 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: for Thomas Nukman and others in their work on developing 351 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: the steam engine, showing that the expansion of trapped steam, 352 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,959 Speaker 1: you know, it's expanding under heat, could be used to 353 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: do work, For example, to drive a pit, which you know, 354 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: from the right combination of gears and shafts and things, 355 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: could you could apply that work of the driven piston 356 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: to almost any task, from pumping water to turning the 357 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: wheels of a railcar. 358 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 3: Fascinating. 359 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, may you never look at your instant pot the 360 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 1: same again. But anyway, we got to come back to 361 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: the ice formation. So we were moving on to the 362 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: Journal entry of March twenty second, where Darwin says, after 363 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: eating our potato less breakfast, we traveled across the Intermediate 364 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: tract to the foot of the Portillo Range. In the 365 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: middle of summer, cattle are brought up here to graze, 366 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: but they had now all been removed. Even the greater 367 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: number of the Guanacos had decamped, knowing well that if 368 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: overtaken here by a snowstorm, they would be caught in 369 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: a trap. And I had to look this up. Guanacos 370 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: or a type of South American camelidly related to the lama. 371 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're really cool. I've never seen them in person, 372 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 3: but I've seen some nature documentaries that feature them, and yeah, 373 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 3: they're like they're a wild species, and yeah, they have 374 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 3: a quite noble air to them. Based on the footage 375 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 3: I've seen. 376 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 1: I thought they were cute. Darwin goes on. We had 377 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: a fine view of a massive mountains called Tupungato, the 378 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: whole clothed with unbroken snow, in the midst of which 379 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 1: there was a blue patch, no doubt a glacier. A 380 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: circumstance of rare occurrence in these mountains now commenced A 381 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: heavy and long climb similar to that of the puquines, 382 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: bold conical hills of red granite rose on each hand. 383 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: In the valleys there were several broad fields of perpetual snow. 384 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,719 Speaker 1: These frozen masses, during the process of thawing, had in 385 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: some parts been converted into pinnacles or columns, which, as 386 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: they were high and close together, made it difficult for 387 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: our cargo mules to pass on. In one of these 388 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: columns of ice, a frozen horse was sticking as on 389 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 1: a pedestal, but with its hind legs straight up in 390 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: the air. The animal, i suppose, must have fallen with 391 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: its head downward into a hole when the snow was continuous, 392 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 1: and afterwards the surrounding parts must have been removed by 393 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: the thall. Oh wow, So it's a shocking and evocative 394 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 1: scene Darwin is describing. So again, these are valleys in 395 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: between the granite hills. The valleys are covered in perpetual snow. 396 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: So you know, this is the end of summer in 397 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: the region and the snow is still not fully melted. 398 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: And Darwin says that this snow, while partially thawing in 399 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: the summer, had somehow been converted into a field of 400 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: pinnacles or columns. Again, He says it was difficult for 401 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: the mules loaded with cargo to pass between these pinnacles, 402 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: and in one pinnacle formation they found a dead horse 403 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: frozen solid, face down with its hind parts pointing straight 404 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: up to the sky. Darwin says in a footnote he 405 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: believes this is the same phenomenon that has been observed 406 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 1: by other authors, including Scores B. Jackson and Lyell, and 407 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: he says based on his observations, he thinks that it 408 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: must be due to what he calls quote metamorphic action 409 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: and not a process during deposition. So what he thinks 410 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: from looking at this scene is that it's not that 411 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: the snow gets piled up like this to begin with 412 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 1: and then freezes that way, but it's something about how 413 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: a snowfield changes over time, perhaps during partial thawing. So 414 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: good question is was Darwin right about that? It seems 415 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: the answer is yes. Darwin did not fully understand the cause, 416 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: but I think his basic intuition was right. It seems 417 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: that for a long time it was widely thought that 418 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: snow penitentes were formed by way of wind erosion, but 419 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: this has now been shown to be mostly incorrect. It 420 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 1: seems that penitentase are unique to certain conditions. They only 421 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: they're especially associated with the Andes, the dry Andies, but 422 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: you can find them in some other climates. They tend 423 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: to only form in high, dry, very sunny environments, like 424 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: those found around glaciers in the Andes. In these conditions, 425 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: when the surface of a snowfield is heated by the sun, 426 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: it does not melt into a liquid, but instead sublimates, 427 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: meaning it it skips the liquid phase transition and turns 428 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: directly from a solid into a gas. So the snowfields 429 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: get heated by the sun and then the ice crystals 430 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: turn directly into water vapor and float away in the air. 431 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,959 Speaker 1: Sublimation is more likely to happen when there's already very 432 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: little water vapor in the air, so the conditions are dry, 433 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: and also in places where the air pressure is lower, 434 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: for example high altitude. So the snow from the top 435 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: layer of a snowfield in the high endies is sublimating 436 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,479 Speaker 1: in the sunshine. The question is what causes it to 437 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: turn into blades or pinnacles instead of simply disappearing sort 438 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 1: of evenly across the whole sheet of snowfall. Well, there 439 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 1: may still be some disagreement about the primary physical causes 440 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: behind this process. But according to a good article that 441 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: I was reading about this by Philip Ball, the science 442 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: writer Philip Ball on the American Physical Society website, which 443 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: is summarizing some research from the year twenty fifteen, there 444 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 1: is a multipart theory that seems to explain it well. 445 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 1: So one piece of the puzzle of how this happens 446 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 1: was described in work by uce Boulder physicist Meredith Betterton 447 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: and co authors on a couple of papers in two thousands, 448 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: and basically this factor has to do with the fact 449 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: that snow can be heated and caused to sublimate not 450 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 1: only by direct sunlight so the first time the sun 451 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: hits the snow, but also by reflected sunlight, and so 452 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: any irregularities in the surface of the snowfield that cause 453 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 1: a ray of sunlight to bounce sideways instead of straight 454 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,959 Speaker 1: back up the sky can cause secondary heating. This might 455 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: be a little hard to picture without a diagram, rob 456 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: I've got an illustration for you to look at here, 457 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: But if you can imagine rays of light are coming 458 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: down from above, and if you have peaks and valleys 459 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 1: within a snowfield, ray of light hits somewhere within a valley, 460 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 1: and the snow is very bright and white, so a 461 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: lot of that energy gets reflected back off of the 462 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: surface of the snow. That reflection will often send it 463 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: bouncing down to another part of the valley. Does that 464 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: make sense? You can picture all these angles where the 465 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: rays of light hits somewhere in the valley and then 466 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: they bounce, and then they hit somewhere else in the 467 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 1: valley and keep they can essentially keep bouncing around within 468 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 1: the valley so that they eventually get absorbed and converted 469 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: into heat. So basically, if peaks and valleys are somehow 470 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 1: able to initially form within a layer of snow, the 471 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: valleys will be self deepening because the light that hits 472 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: within the valley will bounce back and hit somewhere else 473 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: in the valley, and it's sort of trapping that energy 474 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: within it, further heating another point in the valley. Whereas 475 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: the peaks are relatively protected from most reflected light, the 476 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 1: only heating they're getting is pretty much from the direct 477 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: the first hit of the sunlight. So the valleys heat 478 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: more than the peaks, and they continually sublimate and deepen 479 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: what start as tiny differences in the surface of the ice. 480 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: These things deepen into great rifts and corridors in the 481 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: ice as reflected solar energy whittles away the valleys, until 482 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,959 Speaker 1: we have these these sort of like mazes of blades. However, 483 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: according to this theory discussed in Ball's article, this is 484 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: apparently not the whole picture. There are a couple of 485 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: other mechanisms you need to add. So Philip Ball's article 486 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: is summarizing additional research that was published by Philippe Claudin 487 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: and co authors in Physical Review E in twenty fifteen 488 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: in a paper called Physical Processes causing the Formation of Penitentes. 489 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: So the authors of this paper are saying, you need 490 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 1: more mechanisms than just that the reflected light being trapped 491 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: in the valleys to explain, for example, the regularity of 492 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: spacing and patterns seen in fields of penitentes, Because while 493 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: the penitentes may look sort of chaotic, they are not random. 494 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: There are clearly patterns that recur and a particular scale 495 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: of spacing is favored within one field of these things. 496 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: So their paper adds a couple of other mechanis mechanisms 497 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: into the mix. This is pretty technical, but Ball explained 498 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: it in a way that I think I understand based 499 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: on his summary. So Ball says, first of all, in 500 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: order to sublimate, the snow or the ice actually has 501 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: to absorb the incoming light and convert that energy into heat. 502 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: And when it absorbs this energy, the interior of the 503 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: mass of ice becomes warmer than the direct surface of 504 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: the mass. So the layer of snow right underneath the 505 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: surface is warmer than the surface itself, And the gradient 506 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: between these two layers is determined by how easily the 507 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: light is absorbed by the snow, which varies between the 508 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: peaks and valleys. Ball writes quote, heat is radiated less 509 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: efficiently from the troughs than from the peaks, which leads 510 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: to a steeper temperature gradient in the snow within the troughs. 511 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: This steeper temperature gradient turns out to produce a higher 512 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,479 Speaker 1: sublimation rate, so that the troughs become c amplifying in 513 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: the early stages of growth. So that's another way that 514 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: the troughs can become, as he says, self amplifying. Once 515 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: they already exist, they tend to sublimate faster and become 516 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: deeper than the peaks. But the second main issue is 517 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: that sublimation of snow depends on what's going on in 518 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: the air right above the snow. It depends on that 519 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: air right above the snow or ice being very dry. 520 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: If there's already a lot of water vapor in the 521 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: air right above the ice, less of the ice is 522 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: going to phase transition into gas and float away. Of course, 523 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: when ice sublimates, it becomes water vapor, So the rate 524 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: at which more ice below can sublimate depends on how 525 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: quickly the water vapor that forms just above the ice 526 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: is removed, is maybe blown away by the wind or 527 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: somehow diffused into the rest of the atmosphere. Essentially, you 528 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: can't put more passengers in the elevator until some current 529 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: passengers get out. So this research by claude Ane and 530 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: co authors argued that it is this water vapor diffusion 531 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: principle that determines the regular spacing between the peaks and 532 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: valleys in the fields of ice. It is apparently like 533 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: when there are patterns of difference in the diffusion of 534 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: water vapor from the air directly above the ice, that 535 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: these peaks and valleys begin to form, and then once 536 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: they do, for the reasons already mentioned, they are self amplifying. 537 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: So maybe here's an area of snow where the air 538 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: is wetter, sublimation doesn't happen as well. That becomes a peak. 539 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: Here's an area of snow where the air is drier, 540 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: sublimation happens more there, This becomes a valley. So the 541 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: spacing of penitentes is in part determined by things like 542 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: wind conditions. If wind blows, it diffuses water vapor faster, 543 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: and apparently this leads to penitentes forming farther apart from 544 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: one another if they form, And using the mathematical model 545 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: established in this paper, the team calculated that in conditions 546 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: with no wind, you would expect to see penitentes spaced 547 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: in the range of roughly tens of centimeters apart, which 548 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: is in fact the most common pattern found in nature. 549 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: So these tiny differences in water vapor diffusion and reflection 550 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: of light and heat absorption in a field of snow can, 551 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: over time, by this self amplification process, turn into these 552 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: crazy hedge mazes of ice knives. And I think that's 553 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: a beautiful thing. Now, I don't know if that solves 554 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: the question of how the horse ended up frozen faced 555 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,479 Speaker 1: down again. Darwin guesses that somehow, like maybe when there 556 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: was a lot more snow piled higher up, the horse 557 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: fell headfirst into a hole and it froze there. And 558 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: then somehow that turned into as snow was sublimated or 559 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: melted away, was removed, somehow it turned into just like 560 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: a pedestal, like a column of ice with a horse 561 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 1: sticking out of it with its head frozen in. And 562 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: it's hard to picture. 563 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 3: Remains a mystery, But I love this whole encounter. Here 564 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 3: we have such a surreal landscape to envision, and then 565 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 3: we have a familiar character in the form of Charles 566 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 3: Darwin navigating it and trying his best to make sense of. 567 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: It on a potato free belly. Yes, you can just imagine, 568 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: like all night the weather's bad, He's worried or are 569 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: they going to get snowed in? Are they going to 570 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: die up there? And then in the morning he's like, 571 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: at least I'm going to have some potatoes. 572 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 3: Nope, And then Gandalf turns to him and says, Charles, 573 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 3: your role in this mission is extremely important. 574 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: Now, just one more quick note. I have encountered it. 575 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: I didn't have time to fully delve into this and 576 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: figure out what I thought of the disagreement. But I've 577 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: encountered dueling opinions about whether we would expect to find 578 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: large penitentes on particular bodies in space, for example, on 579 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: the surface of Jupiter's moon Europa. So there was one paper, 580 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: for example, I came across, called formation of meter scaled 581 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: bladed roughness on Europe on Europa's surface by ablation of ice, 582 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: published in Nature Geoscience by Hoby at All in twenty eighteen. 583 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: The authors here say, quote, we estimate that penitentes on 584 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: Europa could reach fifteen meters in depth with a spacing 585 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: of seven point five meters near the equator on average, 586 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: if they were to have developed across the interval permitted 587 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:35,240 Speaker 1: by Europa's mean surface age, So ice blades about fifteen 588 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: meters tall, which is fifty feet. Obviously, this would present 589 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: some complications if you were trying to, say, put a 590 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: lander down in a region that had a surface texture 591 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: like this. But then, on the other hand, I saw 592 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: that there are some papers in reply to this paper 593 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: arguing against the notion, and at least one of them 594 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 1: was doing so by challenging the formation theory of penitentes. 595 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: That I was just a explaining. So I don't know 596 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: how well subscribed to this dissenting opinion is, but it 597 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: seems like it's possible. There's still some major controversy in 598 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: how the penitentes form and how that would affect what 599 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: we should expect to find on icy planets like Europa. 600 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 3: I found that many of the ice related papers I've 601 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 3: looked at, it seems to be there seems to be 602 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 3: a steep drop off regarding like technical details concerning the 603 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 3: formation of ice crystals and so forth. So it can 604 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 3: be a little challenging at times to figuring out exactly 605 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 3: what the experts are are dealing with or arguing about 606 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 3: in some of these All right, I have a few 607 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,439 Speaker 3: other forms of ice I want to throw out here. 608 00:35:55,400 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 3: I was mainly attracted to this additional topic of candle eyes. 609 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,760 Speaker 3: I know that many of you out there have probably 610 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 3: seen some interesting videos and images online of candle ice. 611 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 3: But candle ice is a subset of rotten ice, so 612 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,800 Speaker 3: I'll need to talk about that first. 613 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:13,720 Speaker 1: What rotten ice? 614 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 3: Rotten ice? Yeah, I know it sounds grizzly, right, like 615 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,760 Speaker 3: the ice is stinking and dark and bleeding or something, 616 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 3: But rotten ice is according to the National Snow and 617 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 3: Ice Data Center, floating ice which has become honeycombed in 618 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 3: the course of melting, and which is in an advanced 619 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,399 Speaker 3: state of disintegration. You can also think of it as 620 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 3: ice just in an in advanced stage of melting. So 621 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 3: it's porous and it's difficult to climb or work on. 622 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 3: It's generally considered dangerous for humans to work on or 623 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 3: with it, since it has lost or is losing its stability. 624 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: That's interesting. So this would be yet another case of 625 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 1: ice that is weakening or losing some of its mass, 626 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: not doing so in an even way, but losing its 627 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,360 Speaker 1: mass in a kind of model old pattern, as opposed 628 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: to just like you know, thinning out evenly across its surface. 629 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 3: Right right, And therefore it could be dangerous if you 630 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 3: have like a stretch of this and people are going 631 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 3: to try and walk on it or work with it 632 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,240 Speaker 3: in some way. There's apparently a great deal of interest 633 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 3: and concern concerning the impact of this ice type on 634 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 3: the biogeochemistry of the Arctic as well, since climate change 635 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,280 Speaker 3: and a warming Arctic will make this sort of ice 636 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 3: more common. It's pointed out by France that all in 637 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 3: the distinct microbial ecology and biogeochemistry of rotten sea ice 638 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 3: on the Arctic Shelf twenty twenty. This was a NASA 639 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:45,320 Speaker 3: ADS publication. Apparently this presents a quote physically and chemically 640 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:50,359 Speaker 3: distinct microbial habitat and its melting could quote contribute significantly 641 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 3: to Arctic shelf carbon and nitrogen cycling and therefore to 642 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 3: Arctic biogeochemistry more generally. So it's enterallying. It kind of 643 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 3: comes back to the same real home of what you 644 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 3: pointed out earlier. I mean, we're we live on a 645 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 3: water planet, and the different phases of water are are 646 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 3: are connected to the way that life works on our planet. 647 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 3: And so yeah, the story of ice is also connected 648 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:18,879 Speaker 3: to the story of life. 649 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,759 Speaker 1: No doubt, especially if you're a water dwelling organism. 650 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 3: Right even if you just happen to be made of 651 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 3: mostly water. Right now, I was looking now for more 652 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 3: details on candleized specifically, I was looking at this wonderful article. 653 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 3: I believe that the author, and this is John A. Downing, 654 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,280 Speaker 3: Director of the University of Minnesota, is Minnesota Sea Grant 655 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:46,720 Speaker 3: and the author here points out that candle ized leaves 656 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 3: long thin crystals as it melts. So again, this is 657 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 3: a form of rotten ice. Primary ice that has been 658 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 3: formed under very cold conditions melts. It leaves behind crystals 659 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,720 Speaker 3: that can be either vertical or horizontal, depending on wind pattern, 660 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 3: and he points out that horizontal crystals appear darker, while 661 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 3: vertical ones appear white and are typically stronger. There are 662 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 3: some wonderful videos out there of people in canoes or 663 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,359 Speaker 3: kayaks churning up these crystals out of the like I mean, 664 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 3: to an untrained eye, it might you might think these 665 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 3: are like slushy waters, you know, like there's clearly some 666 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,719 Speaker 3: frozen slush in there. They'll dip the paddle and when 667 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 3: they pull pull it up, there are these elongated crystals 668 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 3: that kind of rise up and then fall to the 669 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 3: side almost like I mean, there's almost a sense of 670 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 3: like icy spines parting. 671 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's creepy. I just looked up images of this, 672 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 1: and so I'm seeing like a kayaker who's sticking their 673 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,279 Speaker 1: paddle into the water, and it looks like they're just 674 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: like plowing through a pile of hay or maybe needles 675 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 1: made of ice. 676 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, So it's you know, it's interesting to 677 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 3: think of like all these different forms of ice that 678 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:59,440 Speaker 3: can occur at different points in the formation and deformation 679 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 3: and melting or decomposition of ice. Now, another variety I 680 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 3: want to mention here in pasting is a type of 681 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,800 Speaker 3: ice that is often referred to as beach ice balls 682 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,760 Speaker 3: or sometimes mermaid's bowling balls. 683 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:16,319 Speaker 1: Who came up with that name? 684 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,760 Speaker 3: I mean, I mean you look at them and you're like, well, 685 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,400 Speaker 3: maybe this is a mermaid's bowling ball. Often seeing generally 686 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 3: you'll see like a lot of them. So this is 687 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 3: another type of ice that's profiled by downing. These are 688 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,439 Speaker 3: formed on cold beaches and they may be pure ice 689 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 3: and therefore have like kind of, you know, very much 690 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 3: icy white look to them, or they might be ice 691 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 3: covered in sand and sediment. They can reach soccer ball sizes, 692 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 3: so they're spiracle. They're they're just big white balls of ice, 693 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 3: you know, not always perfect. Sometimes there's kind of like 694 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,359 Speaker 3: a little almost kind of like tadpole tails on them. 695 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 3: It looks like little spikes. But yeah, these these are 696 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,320 Speaker 3: seemingly formed by formed as slusha that's another form of 697 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 3: vice by wave action and rolled up beaches by the tide, 698 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 3: and it makes for quite a surreal sight. I included 699 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,959 Speaker 3: a couple of images for you, Joe. Here summer, there's 700 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:12,760 Speaker 3: some in the water, and then there's some just piled 701 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 3: up on a beach. 702 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, it looks like I would not have said 703 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: mermaid bowling balls. I might have said, I don't know, e, 704 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: lithid eggs or something. 705 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I guess it's just because of the 706 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 3: size they can reach and I'm guessing the weight, right, 707 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 3: I mean, if you were to pick one of these up, 708 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 3: you might be like, oh, yeah, this is a vowling ball. 709 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,759 Speaker 3: I just need three holes and I'm going to go. Now. Slushballs, 710 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,280 Speaker 3: which I mentioned earlier, this is an yet another form 711 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 3: roughly as vehicle caused by clumps of slush turned and 712 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 3: rolled in a current. They accumulate like snowballs rolled rolled 713 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 3: up to make a snowman. According to Downing. So yeah, 714 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,359 Speaker 3: just imagine again realized this can be kind of hard 715 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,040 Speaker 3: to picture. If you able the like slush in the 716 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 3: water and you have you know, some sort of movement 717 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 3: be it, you know, the waves, tidal action, and it 718 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,279 Speaker 3: just causes these to sort of roll and accumulate and 719 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 3: form ultimately these big balls of ice. All right. In 720 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 3: the last one, I want to talk about here. This 721 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 3: is this is another novel and this is another one 722 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 3: that I think. This one has pointed out to me 723 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,720 Speaker 3: by my wife. She sent me like an Instagram video 724 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:25,320 Speaker 3: that someone had made of someone observing this particular example. 725 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 3: And these are the Abraham Lake bubbles of Alberta. So 726 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,719 Speaker 3: I recommend looking up pictures of this. But one might 727 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 3: describe the scene here as you have a frozen lake, 728 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,879 Speaker 3: so you have clear ice over you, like the dark 729 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 3: blue depths of the lake, but with strange white discs 730 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 3: of different sizes trapped in the ice at different levels, 731 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 3: often seemingly atop each other, as if in sequence, you know, 732 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,439 Speaker 3: kind of like a different altitudes within the ice. I've 733 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,360 Speaker 3: seen these formations compared to like a lava lamp before, 734 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 3: except there is no movement. Everything is frozen in place. 735 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, I absolutely see the lava lamp comparison. Yeah, 736 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:11,680 Speaker 1: it looks like a so underneath the relatively transparent frozen 737 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,839 Speaker 1: surface of the lake. Yeah, it looks like it sort 738 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,240 Speaker 1: of bubbles of wax suspended in time. 739 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, the wax is a good example. So what 740 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,400 Speaker 3: are these, Well, they are bubbles, but they are frozen 741 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 3: methane bubbles. Frozen in the ice. So the way this 742 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,360 Speaker 3: works is you have organic matter like tree limbs and 743 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,320 Speaker 3: other plant matter that winds up on the boom of 744 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,720 Speaker 3: the bottom of the lake and that decomposes releases methane 745 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,919 Speaker 3: when the temperature drops, you know, it drops fast enough 746 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 3: that rising methane bubbles become frozen in the freezing water ice. 747 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,840 Speaker 3: I think the other way to clearly picture it is 748 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 3: imagine the water freezing over at the top, methane rising 749 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,280 Speaker 3: up and becoming trapped in these kind of like flattened 750 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,600 Speaker 3: bubbles beneath the ice, and then the water around those 751 00:43:55,600 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 3: squashed bubbles freezes, the ice cap thickens, more bubbles up 752 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,920 Speaker 3: and become trapped underneath the even thicker ice, and this continues, 753 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 3: creating this multi layered lava lamp kind of appearance. 754 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 1: And I guess we can only see it because of 755 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 1: the relatively transparent surface of the of the ice on 756 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:15,839 Speaker 1: the lake here. 757 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,399 Speaker 3: That's right. That's what I've read here is that this 758 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 3: sort of thing goes on in lakes all over the place, 759 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,800 Speaker 3: and anytime you have a frozen lake environment, you potentially 760 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,480 Speaker 3: have these bubbles because you have organic matter tree limbs, 761 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 3: plant matter, whatever. At the bottom releasing methane, and then 762 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,280 Speaker 3: if there's freezing going on, you're gonna have these bubbles 763 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 3: trapped in there. But it seems to be a combination 764 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 3: of things with this particular lake. So first of all, 765 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,080 Speaker 3: there might be like enhance concentration of it for one 766 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,719 Speaker 3: reason or another, but also you have water clarity that's 767 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:50,600 Speaker 3: really good, and a tendency for strong winds to blow 768 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 3: snow off the surface kind of, you know, enhancing the 769 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,360 Speaker 3: visibility of the bubbles I see, So I would I 770 00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,600 Speaker 3: haven't seen these in person, have only seen imag and videos, 771 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,839 Speaker 3: So I would love to hear from anyone who has 772 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 3: ventured out to see the Abraham Lake bubbles of Alberta, 773 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:12,040 Speaker 3: or if you've witnessed similar phenomenon in other frozen lakes. 774 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:13,800 Speaker 3: You know, it looks really. 775 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,759 Speaker 1: Cool, absolutely does beautiful even. 776 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, though also so cold, so cold. 777 00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,080 Speaker 1: Looking makes me want a well done potato. 778 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,400 Speaker 3: All right. Well, on that note, I believe we're going 779 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,399 Speaker 3: to go ahead and close out this episode, but we'd 780 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,359 Speaker 3: love to hear from everyone out there, and especially on 781 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,279 Speaker 3: this one. A lot of you are going to have 782 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,399 Speaker 3: examples of strange eyed formations that we've talked about here 783 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:37,399 Speaker 3: and You may have pictures you want to send in, 784 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 3: and yeah, send away, we'd love to hear from here. Also, 785 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 3: there may be other forms of ice you want to 786 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:46,120 Speaker 3: bring to our attention. That's also fair game. Just a 787 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,200 Speaker 3: reminder that Stuff to Blow Your Mind it's primarily a 788 00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,319 Speaker 3: science podcast, with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, mister 789 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,440 Speaker 3: Mail on Monday, short form episode on Wednesdays, and on Fridays. 790 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,680 Speaker 3: We set aside most serious concerns to just talk about 791 00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,720 Speaker 3: a weird film on Weird House Cinema. 792 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,400 Speaker 1: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. 793 00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:04,279 Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us 794 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,800 Speaker 1: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 795 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,799 Speaker 1: a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 796 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,439 Speaker 1: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 797 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:19,920 Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. 798 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,920 Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 799 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,800 Speaker 2: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 800 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.