Speaker 1: He's the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Cowboys on
Speaker 1: the your war room for insider news and draft analysis
Speaker 1: from deep within the confines of Cowboys headquarters at the
Speaker 1: Star in Fresco, Dallas Cowboys Selectio Elliott and now your
Speaker 1: hosts Dane Brugler, David Hellman, and Brian brought us Well,
Speaker 1: we're back from Indianapolis and excited to be back in
Speaker 1: the Star and once again bringing you the best draft
Speaker 1: coverage that we can. Brian brought us here Dallascowboys dot Com.
Speaker 1: Dan Burglar, CBS Sports and a contributor to Dallas Cowboys
Speaker 1: dot Com. And David Hellman, writer from Dallas Cowboys dot Com.
Speaker 1: K Garrison, Executive producer. It is nice to be back, Yeah,
Speaker 1: from the combine. We get some some tieing up we
Speaker 1: need to do today about the combine. We left Indianapolis.
Speaker 1: Our last draft show was Saturday. We kind of been
Speaker 1: falling along and we appreciate everybody it was with us
Speaker 1: those those days that we were an indie. We've got
Speaker 1: some defensive players we need to talk about and some
Speaker 1: positions too, a defensive line, the linebackers, and now the
Speaker 1: secondary guys that are in the range or the thoughts
Speaker 1: of what's going on with a lot of NFL teams,
Speaker 1: especially the one that we're here with. Now, you know,
Speaker 1: it seems like the way the free agency is gonna go,
Speaker 1: this team is gonna lose probably a couple of corners,
Speaker 1: probably a couple of safeties, but no fear. He just
Speaker 1: lost the defensive tackle. So yeah, where did the defensive
Speaker 1: tackle just end up? The report on Twitter as Terrell
Speaker 1: McClean is signing with the Redskins, So the Redskins are
Speaker 1: gonna get troma And hey, was that an Adam Schefter
Speaker 1: special right there? I think that was actually I saw
Speaker 1: it from the Washington Post. Okay, there, I trust them.
Speaker 1: We're an interesting article about Scott McCluin. By the way,
Speaker 1: the Washington Post seems like Bruce Allen is back to
Speaker 1: meddling again. That'd be a good thing if Allan's continues
Speaker 1: to metal. The Redskins can really only handle stability and
Speaker 1: boris yes for about eleven months. Yeah, so Scotty, if
Speaker 1: Scotty is, Scotty's shown the door, they're good for Scotty way, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: That's a great evaluator right there, and he's one of
Speaker 1: my dear friends. I feel sorry for him for what
Speaker 1: happened to him so far here at watching it. But
Speaker 1: Bruce Allen, you continue to metal. That'll be fine. But
Speaker 1: the positions that I say, I want to focus on.
Speaker 1: We're gonna look at the what happened on Saturday and
Speaker 1: Sunday also, like I say, went for the part of
Speaker 1: the show too, We're gonna do Twitter on the twenty.
Speaker 1: The best way to get ahold of the show is
Speaker 1: is through at the draft show. You could fall along.
Speaker 1: Kink Garrison does a great job of managing the account.
Speaker 1: If you're watching right now, you might be catching it
Speaker 1: on periscope. That's a great way to kind of to
Speaker 1: be a part of that. We love to do Twitter
Speaker 1: on the twenty. We like the interaction with the fans.
Speaker 1: We like the ability to answer your questions if we can.
Speaker 1: I will be happy to do that that way. And
Speaker 1: if we have time at the end of the show,
Speaker 1: maybe we can take some calls if folks feel so inclined.
Speaker 1: Eight eight, eight, eight, five, five, two two nine seven.
Speaker 1: The numbers usually on the left side of the screen.
Speaker 1: There you can find it. And when we're ready to
Speaker 1: go some calls, well, we'll do that we can do that,
Speaker 1: but at the draft show is the best way to
Speaker 1: get a hold of us. I also want to get
Speaker 1: into a little bit of what happened yesterday. Dana and
Speaker 1: I had the opportunity to go to Pro Day in Norman, Oklahoma.
Speaker 1: The folks there at Urusity, Oklahoma to an outstanding job
Speaker 1: through a great Pro Day. You know, I love organization.
Speaker 1: I love when it's you can park, you get your credential,
Speaker 1: you go, and they gave us great access to the players.
Speaker 1: We had a chance. Dana and I were right there
Speaker 1: when Joe Mixon met with the media after the workout.
Speaker 1: Have our thoughts about that also too, would like to
Speaker 1: to get into Dave has got a little call at games.
Speaker 1: But it's more about things that we thought about. More
Speaker 1: surprising is the title of this one, more surprising, generating discussion.
Speaker 1: Generating discussions was all about So anyway, we'll we'll do
Speaker 1: all that. So, uh, hang tight with us. We'll be
Speaker 1: having fun throughout the day doing this. Okay, getting into
Speaker 1: what happened on Sunday at the Combine defensive line, Yeah,
Speaker 1: talk about some of the things though that and just
Speaker 1: watching the workouts, things that jumped out, you know, there
Speaker 1: was these guys. We see these guys on tape. That's
Speaker 1: kind of something we've all thought about. We sat down,
Speaker 1: we watched these guys, and now you're looking to see
Speaker 1: at the measurables and the workout match. Did we get
Speaker 1: some match from what we saw, or did we get
Speaker 1: some things and maybe a little bit more elevation from
Speaker 1: certain guys the way they worked out, or did the
Speaker 1: cream of the crop continue to be the cream of
Speaker 1: the crop. I think all the above. You know, you
Speaker 1: look at Miles Garrett and what he did, Uh, he
Speaker 1: made the Cleveland Brown decision at number one just that
Speaker 1: much easier. I think he was the obvious favorite going
Speaker 1: into the combine and it still holds true. I think
Speaker 1: that's the easiest decision a team picking number one overall
Speaker 1: has had since the Colt and Andrew Luck back in
Speaker 1: twenty twelve. Just slam dunk to you. Then, Yeah, who
Speaker 1: else are you gonna say? You know that's quarterbacks? I
Speaker 1: like Jonathan Allen, but he doesn't the impact potential. He's
Speaker 1: got some shoulder issues. Solomon Thomas, I like him a lot.
Speaker 1: Myles Garrett just the best player in this draft, and
Speaker 1: I think you showed that at the combine really impressive player.
Speaker 1: The rest of these pass rushers, I think they disappointed
Speaker 1: to a degree at certain points of their workout. You
Speaker 1: look at Tack McKinley, Yes, and let's you know, we
Speaker 1: could talk about how he's had surgery this past week
Speaker 1: and you know he might not be ready for training
Speaker 1: camp and all that, But just looking at his workout,
Speaker 1: his forty yard dash was good what you expected, you know,
Speaker 1: in the high four fives, four sixes, But the three cone,
Speaker 1: the short shuttle, the change of directions, that surprising to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I don't think he was necessarily stiff on film.
Speaker 1: To me, when you use the words stiff, that's a
Speaker 1: can't can't turn, can't bench. Yeah, that's one of the
Speaker 1: meanest things you could possibly say about it. Well, there's
Speaker 1: meaner things you could call player, Yeah, probably, but in
Speaker 1: terms of making it on this'll get in trouble. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll get stiff or the worst thing you could say.
Speaker 1: But he worked out like a stiff player. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you don't necessarily he's not the most fluid. I mean,
Speaker 1: there are more fluid pass rushers out there, but I
Speaker 1: didn't expect him to that degree to be that hindered
Speaker 1: by his hips, the change of direction. It just wasn't there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: at six two two fifty, Dave kind of thinking of
Speaker 1: a guy it's got a little bend to him, a
Speaker 1: little billy to the movement and stuff. I think Dane's
Speaker 1: right about this one. It wasn't I didn't see. I
Speaker 1: didn't see that on tape. And I'll go and I'll
Speaker 1: flip it another. But just your thoughts though, I McKinley, though,
Speaker 1: I mean, what did you sat down down? I know
Speaker 1: we got back very early Sunday morning. I mean I
Speaker 1: saw your tweets. You were watching it, you were locked in. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: And I mean didn't we talk about this and Indy
Speaker 1: though in terms of how how much you let this
Speaker 1: stuff influence you though, based on what you've already seen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you try not to, but you try not to.
Speaker 1: But what I'm hearing from you is that you kind
Speaker 1: of it was surprising. And that's what's the great thing
Speaker 1: about what you're what you're gonna do with this, uh,
Speaker 1: this game with that we're gonna or this discussion that
Speaker 1: we're gonna have, is that you're trying to figure out
Speaker 1: that why why did this guy look this way on tape.
Speaker 1: I always mean the whole thing, well, the trust the
Speaker 1: tape bit. I mean, you look at that tape and
Speaker 1: you start seeing him, you start I'll give another example,
Speaker 1: the Willis kid, right, Will's kid from Will's kid from
Speaker 1: Kansas State. And if I remember correctly, you were surprised
Speaker 1: in a good way. But I was surprised in a
Speaker 1: good way exactly right when you know when you start
Speaker 1: talking about his three cone But those people out there
Speaker 1: don't that does not think that he could bend on
Speaker 1: tape out there doing it against Yeah, but he saw
Speaker 1: you see him doing that, and now it gives you
Speaker 1: that little bit of Okay, what what was I just watching? Right?
Speaker 1: What was I watching? And he goes back to what
Speaker 1: we talked about. The running backs? Yeah, d Alvin Cook
Speaker 1: testing like a below average athlete, Leonard for what was
Speaker 1: that scent that you're you're talking about the spark spark?
Speaker 1: He tested under ten percent the percentile of running backs.
Speaker 1: It's just it's explain the spark thing, because I'm like
Speaker 1: old school scout man that doesn't stop watching the two
Speaker 1: socks kind of scar. Yeah, I'm the I'm the old
Speaker 1: I'm on the old bike shorts and stand there, you know,
Speaker 1: just chicken around the yard, that kind of guy. It's
Speaker 1: not a bad drill. Yeah, we could go. We could
Speaker 1: talk for hours on SPARK and what it means and
Speaker 1: uh you know how to best utilize it. But basically,
Speaker 1: it's a formula Nike came up with to incorporate your size,
Speaker 1: your length, and then all your athletic measurables, and you know,
Speaker 1: puts you into a percentile of how you grade out
Speaker 1: with other former prospects. And you can look at past examples. Okay,
Speaker 1: well you know, we've never had a running back in
Speaker 1: twenty fifth percentile or less go in the first round something,
Speaker 1: you know, something like that, and then Dalvin Cook comes
Speaker 1: in in the ninth percentile, and it's okay, what do
Speaker 1: we do with this? You know, so the guys that
Speaker 1: are number cats, the number cats are looking at that
Speaker 1: thing and going whoa, whoa, I wouldn't take it. There
Speaker 1: are some people in this building that put a lot
Speaker 1: of stock in the Spark rank, and I think that's
Speaker 1: the case everywhere because it a lot of times, you know,
Speaker 1: it does match up. I think it makes sense correlates
Speaker 1: the NFL success because you're grading athletes, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: you can't really hide from that. And you want athletes
Speaker 1: on your football team. Now you also want football players, right,
Speaker 1: you know, And so that's where you have to kind
Speaker 1: of marry the two, and you want ideally the best
Speaker 1: football players are also the best athletes. It doesn't always
Speaker 1: happen that way. This and I want to go back
Speaker 1: because this is really interesting to me because Willis is
Speaker 1: a guy that I really like from the Senior Bowl,
Speaker 1: played well. McKinley is a guy that I would like
Speaker 1: if he was healthy. Right, But your podcast is called
Speaker 1: Trust the Tape, and you're like, mister trust the tapes
Speaker 1: all the time. You did this for a living for
Speaker 1: a long time, Like why are you letting these agility
Speaker 1: drills scare you so much or impress you so much? No, no,
Speaker 1: I I you weigh the balance between how much you
Speaker 1: should be concerned or the older you get, the older
Speaker 1: you get, the more scared you get. That's not true.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say that the older I get, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm starting to learn about this number of things with
Speaker 1: the spark thing. It terrifies me because I'm terrible in math,
Speaker 1: I'm terrible at understanding percentages. I'm more about gut and
Speaker 1: what I see football scouting used to just be about
Speaker 1: gut and now there it is used to now And
Speaker 1: now a guy like Dane Burglar walks in the room
Speaker 1: and he throws down a bunch of numbers at me,
Speaker 1: and I kind of go, what's this, you know, And
Speaker 1: I'm really I'm nervous about it because I don't understand
Speaker 1: it because I'm not really small. But that's that's the
Speaker 1: problem I have. But you know, when you do look
Speaker 1: at the numbers, you know, you you you you say, okay,
Speaker 1: why is this guy not moving well? Why why does
Speaker 1: he not have why? Why on tape is he How
Speaker 1: about the opposite guys that that do have the bin
Speaker 1: that excuse me, that do have the high numbers. I mean,
Speaker 1: for example, the kid, you know, like the kid from
Speaker 1: the kid from Tennessee, the defensive in from Tennessee, right,
Speaker 1: I mean his forty yard dash and all I mean
Speaker 1: it's it was, it was not good, right, But then
Speaker 1: you watch that, then you get the then you get
Speaker 1: the three cone drill and you're like, whoa, okay, six
Speaker 1: ninety six here we go. Yeah, You're like, okay, now
Speaker 1: that that correlates, But why why does he not why
Speaker 1: did they not run? Well? Why do they not? You know,
Speaker 1: that's the thing, you know, and like the NFL is
Speaker 1: full of players who weren't combine warriors, who didn't test overly. Well,
Speaker 1: you know that's just so I think the information is power.
Speaker 1: We talk about scouting and we it's a big jigsaw puzzle. Sure, okay,
Speaker 1: you know the tape is one big corner piece and
Speaker 1: you know the numbers are that. You know, you have
Speaker 1: to fit it all together to give you an idea
Speaker 1: a player is. And the best way of doing that
Speaker 1: is looking at past examples. Okay, well, okay, this player
Speaker 1: A is having success in the NFL. How did he test?
Speaker 1: What did he do with the combine? What was his
Speaker 1: tape like? And then trying to you know, backtrack and
Speaker 1: figure out Okay, well, you know what helps correlate to
Speaker 1: success and give It's just scouting is such an inexact science.
Speaker 1: It's you know, it's wish those tags would glow yea
Speaker 1: and you put them on the board. I wish they
Speaker 1: glow as many n as we have. It'll always be
Speaker 1: about gut and feeling, because look, you could just have it.
Speaker 1: One of these guys, you just had a bad day testing.
Speaker 1: You know, you took go and take your acts. Maybe
Speaker 1: you just had a bad day testing, you know, just
Speaker 1: you didn't test overly well. But you were a four
Speaker 1: point of student in high school. Yeah. Yeah, It's just
Speaker 1: one of those things where you have to not take
Speaker 1: one thing in account, you have to take everything into
Speaker 1: account and then try to go through the weeds and
Speaker 1: figure it out. I'm always gonna look at that tape
Speaker 1: the combine. I love, but I'm gonna I'm gonna close
Speaker 1: my eyes if something happens at the combine unless it's medical.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm I'm gonna try, and I'm gonna try,
Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna tell I shouldn't say close my eyes.
Speaker 1: Weigh it differently, but I'm gonna weigh it differently. I
Speaker 1: always have. I always have. But but you see numbers,
Speaker 1: and then these numbers, you're surprised, not surprised, you know,
Speaker 1: got like I'm gonna switched the defensive backs. Those kids
Speaker 1: were flying. You think I even just like, do you
Speaker 1: think it's speed school? Do you think it's speed school?
Speaker 1: Has a lot to do with what's going on with
Speaker 1: these runners. Yeah, a lot of a lot of former tracks.
Speaker 1: I mean, these guys, I can understand. I can understand
Speaker 1: Latim War. I can understand because he looks like he
Speaker 1: plays fast. What freaks me out is the huge kids
Speaker 1: that are still flying like the big guys Obi Melanono,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, oh sub four or four yeah out
Speaker 1: of here? Wow? And I'll I mean, okay, it's track,
Speaker 1: it's specialized training, Michael Johnson speed school. Most of these
Speaker 1: guys have been doing nothing but this since like January third.
Speaker 1: See that scares me. I appreciate the player and that
Speaker 1: wants to get better and have the best numbers. But
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you Melofanu, you you mentioned him,
Speaker 1: he throws a four four out there, and then you
Speaker 1: watch the tape he didn't have. He doesn't have four
Speaker 1: or four tape. He really doesn't see. That's the trap.
Speaker 1: That's the trap that Joe and Flower Mound. Nothing against
Speaker 1: Joe and flower Mount, but Joe and Flower Mount. I
Speaker 1: love to make fun of Joe and flower Mound, but
Speaker 1: like scouts and coaches fall for that crap too. Oh no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I am I'm throwing myself in there with Joe and
Speaker 1: flower Mount, because you do you watch a guy run
Speaker 1: and you're like going and see him play like a
Speaker 1: four four guy. And now you got you got Joe
Speaker 1: and Flower Mount like, hey brought us where you got
Speaker 1: him on your board? Third round? What what you know?
Speaker 1: You don't see a four or four player, right, that's
Speaker 1: the problem you have when you when you're dealing with
Speaker 1: the combine and when you're doing with the tape. And
Speaker 1: I think that one's more explainable because he tested off
Speaker 1: the charts, There's no doubt about that. I had a
Speaker 1: lot of guys test off the chart. When you watch
Speaker 1: a guy like Melan Fond on tape, he's very hesitant,
Speaker 1: he's very cautious. It doesn't matter we're kind of athlete
Speaker 1: you are. If you hesitate for a half tick, you're done. No,
Speaker 1: you can't make up that angle. You're going to be
Speaker 1: late to the play. The player or the running back's
Speaker 1: gonna gain seven yards before you even get to him
Speaker 1: and make contact. So it's great to have those athletic numbers,
Speaker 1: but if you don't have the mental trigger up top
Speaker 1: to utilize those athletic gifts, that it doesn't mean nearly
Speaker 1: as much. And so for me, that's where I am
Speaker 1: with Melan Fono now. Do I think he could get
Speaker 1: better with recognizing his keys and anticipating the play. Sure, right,
Speaker 1: with coaching, he might get better. Still taking him in
Speaker 1: the first round, No, he's a third round player on tape.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. He's staying in the third round
Speaker 1: because I think I can. Humphrey is another guy Alabama.
Speaker 1: Humphrey is another guy to me and from Alabama talking
Speaker 1: about Marlon Humphrey cornerback. Yeah, Marlin Humphrey goes blowing down
Speaker 1: there like a let me see here, four four three
Speaker 1: was just average about four almost a four three nine
Speaker 1: four four zero. Marlin Humphrey doesn't play that fast. See,
Speaker 1: that's the thing. That's the that's the that's the thing
Speaker 1: that that is just I'm like, whoa wait a minute,
Speaker 1: where'd that come from? How many times there's a corner
Speaker 1: running forty yards? Better catch up? Yeah, and you get beat?
Speaker 1: And Marlin Humphrey will show you some tape where if
Speaker 1: he gets beat, you didn't always play like he's a
Speaker 1: four four. He ain't running four four getting back. And
Speaker 1: even even if you're running forty yards as a corner,
Speaker 1: there there better be some you know, jostling and some
Speaker 1: bumpy he's long, he's rangy, he can do those things,
Speaker 1: and the biggest thing with him is just finding the
Speaker 1: ball downfield, recognizing with it when the plays come in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: struggles with that, and that's if you're gonna give up
Speaker 1: big plays down the field, Uh, you're not gonna be
Speaker 1: on my football team. So he is a tough one
Speaker 1: because the athletic traits are there. I think he will
Speaker 1: get better only in Richard sophomore, right, but the recognition
Speaker 1: down the field, the ball production, that's the big issue
Speaker 1: with him. And so he's another wild card because he
Speaker 1: tested well and he's gonna fit somewhere in that first round.
Speaker 1: I'm honestly, I'm pretty surprised here in this first segment
Speaker 1: at how like torn you sent Like you just sound
Speaker 1: like you don't even You're like up is down left
Speaker 1: is right? Like you don't know. I just you know,
Speaker 1: it's trying to figure it all out. But it's trying
Speaker 1: to It's it's what spend all those hours? Why that tape?
Speaker 1: I do you just like to sit there with this guy?
Speaker 1: And he says we need to watch this guy and
Speaker 1: then and then he doesn't work out worth a damn
Speaker 1: And I'm like okay, but he played pretty well, you know.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that's the thing in in in
Speaker 1: my in my advanced years now of scouting, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to figure out, have I been more right always watching
Speaker 1: the tape or have I been more right trusting what
Speaker 1: these numbers are and these kids? I think, and I
Speaker 1: think I'm yeah, and I think I'm getting fooled because
Speaker 1: of these kids going to speed schools and stuff. There
Speaker 1: used to not be a time. There used to be
Speaker 1: a time where Tyrone Wheatley from from Michigan, the running
Speaker 1: back would roll out of bed and go run for
Speaker 1: three eight and then I've thought he hated but he
Speaker 1: was a fifty five meter champ too, I think in Michigan.
Speaker 1: Do you think there is a time where, in the
Speaker 1: not near future where we'll do away with you know,
Speaker 1: the testing, the forty yard dash and the three cone
Speaker 1: all that, and it'll just become a workout drill. Well,
Speaker 1: they'll incorporate more I mean time drills, but more football
Speaker 1: related time drifts, you know, I mean, just because you're
Speaker 1: right about the speed school and these guys training for
Speaker 1: these specific drills exkews the numbers, and you know, do
Speaker 1: you think there. It'll get to the point where scouts
Speaker 1: just say, listen, we're stubborn. We'll bang our head against
Speaker 1: this wall. I don't know, like the medical thing that
Speaker 1: poor Foster can I mean, I said poor Foster. But
Speaker 1: you know some of these were I found out what
Speaker 1: was going on there. You know, guy has a shoulder
Speaker 1: problem just coming back from surgery, didn't get pain medication.
Speaker 1: A little bit agitated. Hey that you know. I had
Speaker 1: some trainers and doctors tell me the process is too long.
Speaker 1: Three in the morning. They're physical and kits, you know,
Speaker 1: and everybode got out there up broadest quick wine and
Speaker 1: they're making millions. I get it. We need to do
Speaker 1: a better job of helping those kids. I think the
Speaker 1: hierarchy of scouting and football in general is still a
Speaker 1: lot of people that like came up when it was
Speaker 1: a different sport, you know, like sixties, seventies and eighties.
Speaker 1: I bet you it'll things will change, Like we're gonna
Speaker 1: see some some shifts as like younger people get into
Speaker 1: the power spots and care more about things like advanced
Speaker 1: stats and spark scores. A couple of guys defensive backwise
Speaker 1: that wowed you a little bit before we go to
Speaker 1: break while would be in the wrong way tease Tabor,
Speaker 1: a player we both like on table. Yeah, it goes
Speaker 1: out runs in the mid four sixes, high four sixes.
Speaker 1: Get ready for that discussion. And the rest of his
Speaker 1: duals were poor. His vertical uh you know at the
Speaker 1: only nine on the bench press, which you know, not
Speaker 1: a huge deal for a corner, but still just a
Speaker 1: disappointing weekend in Indianapolis for for Tabor. So I don't,
Speaker 1: I don't. He's a guy we have to go back
Speaker 1: and study and figure out because he does. He doesn't
Speaker 1: play like a burner and we knew that, but he
Speaker 1: also don't played like a four to sixth athlete, and
Speaker 1: so we need to figure that one out. Talk about
Speaker 1: Witherspoon from Cal Colorado, Yeah, that he liked, went to
Speaker 1: Juco and Cal player. They didn't start playing football until
Speaker 1: the senior year in high school. I liked the kid.
Speaker 1: I liked the kid a lot, and I had a
Speaker 1: chance to sit down and talk with him at the
Speaker 1: combine just kind of pick his brain a little bit more.
Speaker 1: It's amazing he hit from his junior year to his
Speaker 1: senior year. He went from five eight to six two yeah,
Speaker 1: talk about a growth spurt. He said it was painful,
Speaker 1: but that's why he started playing football, ladies, because he
Speaker 1: was just a smaller guy. And he goes to Juco,
Speaker 1: then goes to Colorado and you could see it year
Speaker 1: after year progression, progression blossomed as a senior and I
Speaker 1: think he put himself in that top one hundred mix.
Speaker 1: Now with that that height, that length. He credits, you know,
Speaker 1: his footwork to his soccer background. I think this is
Speaker 1: a budding player who tested a lot better than I
Speaker 1: thought I was expecting more like four five, mid four
Speaker 1: or five. Yeah, me too. He ran in the mid
Speaker 1: four four. Yeah. Absolutely, and one more last guy too.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you about, did Fabian Moreau put himself
Speaker 1: in the first round. I think for some teams he'll
Speaker 1: be considered in the first round. Yes, Um, you can
Speaker 1: make an easy argument he's the top senior corner this year.
Speaker 1: Tredevious Whites as solid player, Jordan Lewis is a good player.
Speaker 1: Moreau is a better player than White. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: Moreau has put himself in that conversation to you know,
Speaker 1: even maybe contend with a Sydney Jones or one of
Speaker 1: these other corners in the back half of round one.
Speaker 1: A former running back who is still getting better at
Speaker 1: the corner position. But you watch his tape and you
Speaker 1: just don't see much separation because that's speed. He's able
Speaker 1: to blanket receivers and make plays. Yeah, really really impressed
Speaker 1: with who he was on tape, And then I thought
Speaker 1: the numbers matched up. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay, we're gonna take
Speaker 1: our first break when we come back, We're gonna get
Speaker 1: to you guys. So it's gonna be a little bit
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Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft. You Cowboys on the club.
Speaker 1: We're back here in the SWBC Morgan Studios, Brian broad Us,
Speaker 1: Dame Burglar, David Helm and Kent Garrison Executive producing one.
Speaker 1: Also again, thank everybody that has followed along. Like I
Speaker 1: said that various platforms will which we do this show.
Speaker 1: It means a lot to us that you guys care
Speaker 1: so much about it and want to follow along and
Speaker 1: want to try and learn about the draft. You guys
Speaker 1: are challenging us to be better, to try and find
Speaker 1: out more things. We always talk about, investigate and educate.
Speaker 1: That's our sole purpose. So again, thank you everybody out
Speaker 1: there that does all that for us. One of my
Speaker 1: favorite segments that we do, though, is the interaction we
Speaker 1: have with fans. It's called Twitter on the twenty David Hellman.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna get into Twitter on the twenty. But Brian, first,
Speaker 1: I mean, we should talk about underwear. Shouldn't We absolutely
Speaker 1: talk about underwear. You know what? And I'll tell you what.
Speaker 1: Dane and I were at Oklahoma yesterday and I could
Speaker 1: have used me some Tommy John underwear. There was a
Speaker 1: lot of walking around. I needed the socks, the shirt,
Speaker 1: keep myself dry, put a lot of miles, put a
Speaker 1: lot of miles on these Chuck Taylors I'm wearing every day.
Speaker 1: But I could have used my socks. Didn't wear him.
Speaker 1: You'll say it was a mistake, Well keep you keep
Speaker 1: your Tommy John handy because obviously, as we all know
Speaker 1: by now, this is a program that is that heartily
Speaker 1: endorses Tommy John products, underwear, socks, shirts. You can get
Speaker 1: him at Tommy John dot com. Forward slash Cowboys for
Speaker 1: some cowboys themed underwear. Uh, we're really, We're all we're
Speaker 1: all very big fans, whether it's cowboys or just regular stuff.
Speaker 1: I can endure it. Like honestly, I'm not bs and
Speaker 1: y'all when I say how much I appreciate these products.
Speaker 1: They're fantastic. We do. Thank you, Tommy John. I really
Speaker 1: appreciate Dane's reaction to our conversation about them at the combine.
Speaker 1: One of the best gifts I've ever seen is that, right,
Speaker 1: gift is how you say that gif? Yeah? If he
Speaker 1: showed me that on the way from and that was awesome.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna go retweet that later so y'all
Speaker 1: can see it. Yes, thank you, Thank you me John,
Speaker 1: Thank you, Tommy John. We appreciate that. Okay, that's not
Speaker 1: at all bossman. Okay, fantastic, all right, all right, we're
Speaker 1: gonna get right into it ahead. Terrence wants to know
Speaker 1: this is topical. This is good. Un He says, can
Speaker 1: you talk about replacing Tarell McClain. Interesting? Interesting, there's two
Speaker 1: facets to this because one, Washington Redskins really well, you actually,
Speaker 1: i mean you actually have some defensive tackles on this roster,
Speaker 1: which is something we haven't always been able to say.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying they're great, but Malie Collins was promising
Speaker 1: as a rookie. David Irving should be back. He's been
Speaker 1: pretty good at tackle. And then obviously you paid Cedric
Speaker 1: Thornton last year. But I suppose you know, it's not
Speaker 1: a position we've really talked a lot about because of
Speaker 1: those reasons. But how you feeling about these dts. I'll
Speaker 1: tell you what. Though I felt like that there they
Speaker 1: were gonna lose McClane. He was like one of my
Speaker 1: priority guys. I was kind of hopeful that but it
Speaker 1: didn't work. You know, he if he's getting twenty one
Speaker 1: or twenty two million, there's not a whole lot I
Speaker 1: can say. That's that's the that's the issue right there.
Speaker 1: You know, he he worked hard, got himself a big deal,
Speaker 1: played well. It's a shame. I do like what you're saying, though.
Speaker 1: I think they need more from Thornton though, I really
Speaker 1: really do Thornton. Thornton can't be just an okay player.
Speaker 1: Thornton has got to come in here and he's got
Speaker 1: to do some of the things. And I don't know
Speaker 1: if he could be as disruptive as what you get,
Speaker 1: you know from McClane, because McClane to me is a
Speaker 1: side line to sideline player. Yeah, you know you there
Speaker 1: were plenty of times where he was outside the tackle box.
Speaker 1: Thornton needs to do a better job of winning upfield
Speaker 1: initially and being disruptive that way. But you know, there
Speaker 1: was a couple of times. I know the Cincinnati game
Speaker 1: was one of his better games where he was able
Speaker 1: to get a sack, nice pressure uptiment. But he can't
Speaker 1: be a guy that's just okay. He needs to They
Speaker 1: need to find a way to get him going in
Speaker 1: the rotation. They need to find a way that. This
Speaker 1: means too, that they might even have to move back.
Speaker 1: Crawford was thinking back inside, So that will give you that.
Speaker 1: And now so if you've got if you've got Crawford,
Speaker 1: if you got Irvin, if you got a Thornton that
Speaker 1: can play better, you know, then maybe then you've got
Speaker 1: an opportunity. I think there's some guys too in this draft.
Speaker 1: You look at some of these you know these uh
Speaker 1: the one techniques, three techniques. There's some guys that in
Speaker 1: this draft it doesn't seem like I was gonna ask Dane.
Speaker 1: That doesn't seem like as deep of a group as
Speaker 1: last year with your you know, well, there's some guys though,
Speaker 1: they I mean the Quarrels. Quarrels worked out well. The
Speaker 1: Washington I mean, he ran well. Tom Winson, though I
Speaker 1: like Dvin Thomason, Tom Winson. I was hearing that Thomlinson's
Speaker 1: the prote at Alabama. I heard he did really well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and yesterday he's more of a one technique, right. I
Speaker 1: think Larry Ogman Joebi from Charlotte. There you go. I
Speaker 1: like him a lot. In the second round, Tomlinson's in
Speaker 1: that day area. I mean, there's some talent here, you know. Well,
Speaker 1: they will they pick somebody that high. No, they won't.
Speaker 1: That's the thing about I can't. But if it's but
Speaker 1: if it's a three, I mean I could say, if
Speaker 1: it's really a true three, you know, if it's somebody
Speaker 1: that can give him be a little bit distrust. I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, don't they feel pretty good about him? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I can't see them taking a tackle before the third round,
Speaker 1: And even then that seems high interest in the stack.
Speaker 1: How that stack plays out. Yeah. But and to you,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we talk a lot about getting
Speaker 1: a pass rusher at twenty eight, and if they get
Speaker 1: a good if they get a guy they feel good
Speaker 1: about at twenty eight, I'm fine moving Tyron Crawford. He's
Speaker 1: going back inside. Yeah, for that that helps every getting
Speaker 1: another pass rusher outside helps everybody on the rest of
Speaker 1: the defensive line. Absolutely. I say coffee taste today, it's fantastic. Topical.
Speaker 1: Another topical question, because y'all were just in Norman Xavier
Speaker 1: or Xavier. I'm sorry, I never know. UM usually good
Speaker 1: with that French. Do you have a better grasp on
Speaker 1: how Joe Mixon will affect the mid round running backs?
Speaker 1: I mean I feel safe saying he's not a first
Speaker 1: round pick. I think he's a first round talent. Say that.
Speaker 1: I didn't know. You didn't say that, and I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm
Speaker 1: really not. I think he's a third round player. I
Speaker 1: think you think he might go a little bit earlier.
Speaker 1: I do. I think he's a third round player. That's
Speaker 1: where a team will feel comfortable taking him and taking
Speaker 1: on all the baggage that comes with it. You know,
Speaker 1: I think yesterday only kind of cemented what we knew
Speaker 1: about him. He's fit, first of all, physically, it's really impressive,
Speaker 1: and then he goes out running the mid four fours,
Speaker 1: solid numbers with a vertical and abroad thirty five inches
Speaker 1: and what nine ten and abroad? I believe so so
Speaker 1: you know, good numbers. Where he really shined was the
Speaker 1: positional drills. When he's receiving the ball, fluid athlete ability
Speaker 1: to catch and run. It just makes it look so easy,
Speaker 1: very easy, very smooth. And I think that's really the
Speaker 1: selling point with him as a player. It's just that
Speaker 1: receiving ability as well as his ability to carry the ball.
Speaker 1: I think he's off the board. Somewhere in the third round.
Speaker 1: A team will take a chance, and I don't think
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a situation where we see the team coming.
Speaker 1: I think it'll be a surprise, you know, a team
Speaker 1: that maybe didn't show a lot of interest, but you know,
Speaker 1: went through back channels, a team like the Seahawk. I
Speaker 1: could see him being a guy that we're going to
Speaker 1: start if you're falling along on Twitter. I could see
Speaker 1: him being the guy that a lot of teams go
Speaker 1: in and work out on their own that maybe nobody
Speaker 1: really wanted to show their hand yesterday at the Vikings
Speaker 1: and we're the only team that had their general manager
Speaker 1: and head coach there. I guarantee you though, they're gonna
Speaker 1: be some teams they're gonna roll him there, work him
Speaker 1: out one on one take him to dinner someplace Norman
Speaker 1: the night before, get to know him a little bit better,
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be, like Dane says, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a it's it's gonna be a surprise. But I still
Speaker 1: make this prediction. Strong general manager, strong head coach, that's
Speaker 1: what's going to happen. I was I was listening to
Speaker 1: a conversation yesterday. It just had to be standing in
Speaker 1: the right spot where Rick Spielman from the Vikings, their
Speaker 1: general manager, was talking with Bob Stoops and they were
Speaker 1: really comparing notes of how they had to deal, remember
Speaker 1: with Adrian Peterson and what he had to go to
Speaker 1: with the child abuse stuff that they had, and he said,
Speaker 1: this is stuff you never can prepare for, but you
Speaker 1: have to go out there and and and and talk
Speaker 1: about it. And so you know, they were they were
Speaker 1: just comparing notes and and you know Stoops was talking
Speaker 1: about the guy, Hey, he's never had problems with us,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it's it's something he's been a
Speaker 1: model system talked to some other people. Says he's you know,
Speaker 1: involved with some women shelters and things like that in
Speaker 1: the area. Trying to get out there more and do
Speaker 1: some things. I said this last night on one oh
Speaker 1: five three that I would feel comfortable taking him. I would,
Speaker 1: and I think he's a first round talent, and I
Speaker 1: think that my job is as a general managers to
Speaker 1: win football games, and you know, but if it's a
Speaker 1: three year removed thing and I feel comfortable about it,
Speaker 1: which the more I learned about this kid, the more
Speaker 1: comfortable I'm feeling about it. I don't know how bright
Speaker 1: of a kid he really really is. I really don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just saying though, I think he's trying
Speaker 1: to do the right things, and I think that's why
Speaker 1: a team will take take a shot at him in
Speaker 1: the second round. Second, Yes, I do. That's not surprising
Speaker 1: to me. But I think it'll be a limited pool
Speaker 1: of people that are willing to make that strong, strong
Speaker 1: coach strong GM. More topical questions. I know y'all. Y'all
Speaker 1: are in Norman, so you couldn't have been in Boulder.
Speaker 1: But Ernie wants to know how you feel about Chittabay
Speaker 1: A woozy? Did I get that? How did I do
Speaker 1: with that woozy? A damn it? But you did get
Speaker 1: up until that last little woozy just sounded yeah, Okozia, Yes, uh, Colorado,
Speaker 1: how well he ran at the Combine? Yeah, color Our
Speaker 1: kids did themselves proud. They really did a boulder guy
Speaker 1: all for you right there. You're your buffs did all right.
Speaker 1: I like the player a lot. He's one of the
Speaker 1: best blitzing corners in this draft. He just really has
Speaker 1: a knack for that. Uh. Played different positions. They played
Speaker 1: him at safety, free and strong. They played him as
Speaker 1: like an in the box linebacker, They played him in
Speaker 1: the nickel, played him outside, He played everywhere. I talked
Speaker 1: to him at the Combine about his turf toe injury,
Speaker 1: which really plagued him over the second half of the year.
Speaker 1: His senior year kept him out of the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 1: But he said he's one hundred percent now and he
Speaker 1: going out running a mid four fours. That kind of
Speaker 1: confirms it. So with a Woozier, I think he's somewhere
Speaker 1: in that Day two mix we talked about these corners.
Speaker 1: There's gonna be a run on these guys, and if
Speaker 1: you don't get your top guy, I think you feel
Speaker 1: okay because you know you feel comfortable with your fourth, fifth,
Speaker 1: and sixth options on your corner list. So and Woozier
Speaker 1: is definitely in there Oregon, USC, Stanford, and Michigan told
Speaker 1: me this story. I think he's a quick footed guy,
Speaker 1: but I don't think he's explosive, you know. That's the thing.
Speaker 1: I thought his technique was all over the place, and
Speaker 1: maybe that's because he plays all over the place. But
Speaker 1: I saw him playing the slot, I saw him play outside.
Speaker 1: I didn't know how really well he turned on tape.
Speaker 1: That bothered me a little bit about him finding the football,
Speaker 1: turn in and find the football. I didn't think he
Speaker 1: did anything great, but I didn't think he was terrible either,
Speaker 1: you know. I thought he was just a very steady
Speaker 1: kind of a player. I thought he had a little
Speaker 1: bit of an issue where he had to grab and
Speaker 1: hold to try and stay in position. And maybe that's
Speaker 1: because he didn't trust his technique all that well. But
Speaker 1: you're right about the way he worked out. See, there's
Speaker 1: another guy right there that you look at, the size,
Speaker 1: the speed, all that fine, but he doesn't always play
Speaker 1: that way. That's just what I saw on that tape.
Speaker 1: That's fair. I'm gonna put y'all on the spot a
Speaker 1: little bit. Anthony wants to know at this and you're
Speaker 1: not done watching tape, obviously, and I know I feel
Speaker 1: like you've covered most of the really important prospects. Anthony
Speaker 1: wants to know how many first round grades do y'all
Speaker 1: have right now. I'm working on my updated top fifty board,
Speaker 1: which I need to turn into night and so I
Speaker 1: think that'll tell me exactly. But it's my first top
Speaker 1: fifty board. I had twenty five first round grades, and
Speaker 1: I think that will be around where I'm at still,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to change much. That's a
Speaker 1: pretty high number. Though it is a high number, but
Speaker 1: they're just they're player and I don't do first, second, third,
Speaker 1: right I do one, one, two, two, two, three, And
Speaker 1: so I have twenty five firm ones, which speaks to
Speaker 1: the depth of this class. And I've talked about this before,
Speaker 1: but I don't think we have ten true top ten
Speaker 1: picks where you feel, Okay, this guy's definitely a top
Speaker 1: ten guy, those blue chippers at the top, but you
Speaker 1: feel really good about the mid first round, late first round,
Speaker 1: and then into Day two and early Day three. So
Speaker 1: I really like the death of this class. Just don't
Speaker 1: love all the options in the top ten twenty three.
Speaker 1: Good Lord, yeah, you usually settle around eighteen. Usually it's
Speaker 1: a depth of the draft. He's absolutely right there. Of
Speaker 1: the twenty three kids that I hadn't tell me like sixteen. Now,
Speaker 1: of the twenty three kids did I have on my board,
Speaker 1: I would take every one of them. I would I
Speaker 1: take every single one of them. And that includes Trubisky
Speaker 1: at quarterback. I mean, I'm not telling how many quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: I have one Trubisky, that's my only one. Fantastic news
Speaker 1: for me because I just feel good like three quarterbacks
Speaker 1: will go before the Cowboys pick. How do y'all feel like?
Speaker 1: Sound about right? At least at least which means this
Speaker 1: Mahomes your third one, Watson Mahomes, Trubisky is one. And
Speaker 1: then I was I was pretty set on my Trubisky,
Speaker 1: Kaiser Watson Mahomes. Okay, okay, but I mean I'm with
Speaker 1: you an understanding based on based on the combine and
Speaker 1: other things. I wouldn't be surprised if my two and
Speaker 1: three flipped. Yep, I'm doing. I'm gonna need the next
Speaker 1: month to work on those guys, but I feel comfortable
Speaker 1: at Trubisky as my one, Mahomes as my four. Trubisky Watson,
Speaker 1: Mahomes for me on the quarterbacks. I just love the
Speaker 1: thought that you know that I don't only have one
Speaker 1: in the first well though, and those picks are gonna
Speaker 1: push first round grades down toward twenty eight. Who's your
Speaker 1: last first round player? You think? If you had to
Speaker 1: guess whose player number twenty three or twenty five, I'll
Speaker 1: say your mind while you look your cup. It's Tabor
Speaker 1: for me because I got Lattimore, Jones, Moreau. Tabor is
Speaker 1: my four corners. But I would take Adams, Hooker, Cunningham, Foster, Alan, Garrett, McKinley, Lawson, Thomas, Barnett, McDowell, Cook, Mixing, Fournette, Trubisky,
Speaker 1: Howard Ross, Williams, and Davis. Those are my twenty three guys.
Speaker 1: Mine's probably Kaiser, So he's your last first round guy. Yeah?
Speaker 1: Um so right there at twenty five, I started to
Speaker 1: map out my updated top fifty, and so I have
Speaker 1: twenty six first round grades and Kaiser's twenty six. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then Deshaun Watson's my first one two at twenty seven.
Speaker 1: So okay. So so and your board, though, Kaiser over
Speaker 1: Watson just by the slim of some margins, tell him
Speaker 1: eight one's around one two. Yeah, that that might be
Speaker 1: able to change. But one two means first round, second round,
Speaker 1: that right, right right? And Trubisky I have him up
Speaker 1: in the teens. So which actually, y'all, I feel like
Speaker 1: that goes away toward answering Brandon's question. Which it's interesting
Speaker 1: to me because they pick twenty eighth. Obviously you want
Speaker 1: the fifth year option. But when you consider that first
Speaker 1: round grades are typically gone by twenty eight, how realistic
Speaker 1: do you think a trade out of the first round
Speaker 1: would be? It doesn't sound like that grade of an idea.
Speaker 1: If you're telling me that there's twenty five kids, My
Speaker 1: director player personnel here wants more picks, and I'm you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm even at the expense of the option. Yes,
Speaker 1: that fifth year option is he's got a good plan.
Speaker 1: Tane said that with some fire. No, No, he's got
Speaker 1: a plan because he feels like that from play that
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a consensus top ten, but he feels
Speaker 1: like he's got a hundred a list of one hundred
Speaker 1: players that you could probably your your value of where
Speaker 1: you're getting. If you get extra you get extra you
Speaker 1: got an extra two, you get an extra three, or
Speaker 1: an extra four starter. Yeah, you'd be an extra starter
Speaker 1: over a fifth year option. If that player is that good,
Speaker 1: I'm resigning him anyway. I'm usually the other way because
Speaker 1: I want the flexibility if I get in trouble to
Speaker 1: have the ability to sign that player. But I think,
Speaker 1: but miss Draft, I'm with him. This would be a
Speaker 1: great draft to have compensatory picks. I think I'm in because,
Speaker 1: like I said, I mean, it's it's not pick fifteen,
Speaker 1: it's pick twenty eight, you know. Yeah, and well to
Speaker 1: see who's there. You know, maybe one of those guys
Speaker 1: you ranked in the teens could slip. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't know how many thought Byron Jones would slip to
Speaker 1: the Cowboys in the first round of it could be
Speaker 1: a similar situation. But I think there's more a better
Speaker 1: chance that the better option will be to move back
Speaker 1: if you can, if you can do it, if you
Speaker 1: can swing it. I'm I'm pulling these numbers out of
Speaker 1: my butt. But if you told me I could pick
Speaker 1: at thirty five, sixty, seventy, and ninety two, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm in. Yeah, that one more question, David, then we
Speaker 1: gotta take a break. Oh yeah, Roderick, we talked a
Speaker 1: lot about the guys at the top, but he wants
Speaker 1: to know about Day three safeties, like kind of down
Speaker 1: the line safeties. Guys you like day three safeties? Um,
Speaker 1: Lorenzo Jerome, the Saint Francis kid that yeah talked about.
Speaker 1: He didn't run very didn't run well, but he's a
Speaker 1: good player, right and little undersized. But I think, hey,
Speaker 1: if I'm a team that you know, watch the tape
Speaker 1: and really likes the player, I like those numbers because
Speaker 1: he could maybe fall to me in the you know,
Speaker 1: fifth round. U. Here are some names if people need
Speaker 1: to know. Delano Hill from Michigan Harting safety, you move.
Speaker 1: I like him quite a bit. Um. What about May
Speaker 1: the kid from Florida, Florida. I think he's a well
Speaker 1: you think he's higher than that, and he's a Day
Speaker 1: two safety, but with him coming off the injury, he
Speaker 1: late day two or yeah, a third rounder. Okay, Justin
Speaker 1: Evans from A and M's interesting. See that's Justin Evans
Speaker 1: was the next guy who was going to ask you
Speaker 1: about the guy can't tackle. See that's the biggest that's
Speaker 1: not what I like, And that's the you say, Justin
Speaker 1: Evans is interesting, And there's places where you watch him
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden he hits somebody knocks
Speaker 1: him out, hits somebody knocks him out, and then there's
Speaker 1: four plays in a row where he completely misses, and
Speaker 1: it's just it's bad angles. Uh, poor technique. Just the
Speaker 1: guy flies and you know he wants to make the tackle,
Speaker 1: but more often than not he doesn't. Yeah, and he
Speaker 1: misses a lot more to makes. I'd rather have an
Speaker 1: unathletic guy who makes every tackle like Barry Church and
Speaker 1: a guy but at some point does he is he
Speaker 1: worth it? You know? Well? Yeah, you know. And that's
Speaker 1: the thing is justin Evans might go in the second
Speaker 1: or third round because he can fly, and a team
Speaker 1: will get over zealous and think they can fix that.
Speaker 1: But early day three, if you can get him in
Speaker 1: the fourth, if you if you're the cowboy, give him
Speaker 1: the late fourth round, you know you're getting a guy
Speaker 1: that can help you. Insolent he might beginning. You might
Speaker 1: be getting JJ Wilcox. Yeah, you might be able to
Speaker 1: groom him into something. Yeah, let me all right, he's
Speaker 1: a blow him up, miss him guy. I'm hijacking this
Speaker 1: real quick, real quick. But I don't think anybody in
Speaker 1: the draft media dislikes Quincy Wilson as much as y'all.
Speaker 1: And you think he's a safety, Yeah, I don't. I'm
Speaker 1: not a fan of the player at all, even if
Speaker 1: he plays safety. No, And would you would you draft him?
Speaker 1: That's where I was going with this. I mean, like
Speaker 1: it's staggering to me because I feel like he is
Speaker 1: universally seen as a first round pick unless I'm talking
Speaker 1: to y'all, and then he's like a Day three guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've got a two three on him as a safety. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I would draft him at some point on Day two,
Speaker 1: but he's I don't trust him my corner. I don't
Speaker 1: see the first round hype at all. I don't either.
Speaker 1: He's one of those guys I think that the scout
Speaker 1: media has got him way, way, way too high. So
Speaker 1: would you draft him? All right? And the other guy
Speaker 1: we he's got to himy ketchup speed? No, I mean
Speaker 1: he is, yeah, the whole thing with me. He'll try
Speaker 1: and jump routes and do all that. But you know
Speaker 1: you would Where would you draft him? I'm with Dane
Speaker 1: it's two three yeah, well not two three. I'm more
Speaker 1: I'm more like in the three range. So you would
Speaker 1: draft Desmond King to play safety over I love Desmond
Speaker 1: King is a safety. I know you do. I did.
Speaker 1: That's maybe the most interesting discrepancy I've seen so far,
Speaker 1: as like you two would just hate this kid, but
Speaker 1: he's like seen as a Quincy Wilson. Yeah, we could be.
Speaker 1: I could be wrong about him. Well, and we don't.
Speaker 1: I mean, I I just too. Hey, yeah, you know
Speaker 1: I said my notes. I love is toughness, not his speed.
Speaker 1: He's a he's got rich, he's but he's got trouble closing.
Speaker 1: I just don't think. I don't don't think he's a
Speaker 1: great player. And everybody's got him jacked up on the
Speaker 1: top of that board. I don't have him because of
Speaker 1: the splash plays. Yeah, some of those interceptions he made.
Speaker 1: He's a big guy, lockdown tackler. Yeah, good luck. If
Speaker 1: you're six one or taller and you play a position
Speaker 1: like that, people tend to fall in love. Watch him
Speaker 1: draft this kid, and then I have to sit here
Speaker 1: and the amount of corners in this draft that are
Speaker 1: bit Kevin King what he did, yes Washington, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean a lot of these guys. Uh, It's gonna be
Speaker 1: interesting to see how early because first round, late, first round,
Speaker 1: early second round, they're gonna fly off. They're gonna fly
Speaker 1: off the board for sure. Okay, we gotta take a break. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks everybody out there for Twitter on the twenty, we
Speaker 1: has some breaking news. Okay, go ahead, can what do
Speaker 1: you got our show? He didn't. Broncos are set to
Speaker 1: sign Ron Leary. Wore a year deal. Were thirty five
Speaker 1: million dollars with twenty million guaranteed. So congratulations, ye big
Speaker 1: ron ron Leary. I'll see you what. Ron Leary deserves
Speaker 1: that contract after. By the way, Ron Leary came in
Speaker 1: the beginning of last year, and I know we gotta
Speaker 1: go to break here real quick. But Ron Leary came
Speaker 1: in last year. He knew he wasn't gonna be the starter,
Speaker 1: but he still worked hard, reconditioned his body, and when
Speaker 1: it came time to play, he was a better fit
Speaker 1: scheme wise in this offensive line because he wasn't heavy footed,
Speaker 1: he wasn't out of shape, you know, everything that he
Speaker 1: needed to do to be ready, he was. So congratulations
Speaker 1: to Ron Leary. He will do well with the Denver Broncos.
Speaker 1: See you later. Yep, that's true, all right. We I'm back.
Speaker 1: We'll get into some other things, we'll type up some things,
Speaker 1: maybe take a few more questions. But we also got
Speaker 1: Dave's game we're going to play. So stay tuned. To
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Speaker 1: dot Com Draft show. Cowboys on the club back here
Speaker 1: in the SWBC Mortgage Studios. Brian brought us Dame Brugo. David,
Speaker 1: HOWMU like to welcome everybody that's watching us outside the window.
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Speaker 1: great day. Uh. When we were gonna get in, we
Speaker 1: were gonna get into a beast with the drops. We've
Speaker 1: got to We've got about the about twelve minutes left
Speaker 1: in the show here, and so Dave, I want to
Speaker 1: go ahead and get to your get to your little
Speaker 1: your little game here so we can get this started
Speaker 1: and maybe drive some more conversation about it. And if
Speaker 1: we have a couple of minutes here at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, I also want to maybe take a
Speaker 1: call or two Ken if we can get those lined up.
Speaker 1: That numbers eight eight, five, five, two two nine seven.
Speaker 1: It's on your screen if you want to get on
Speaker 1: the Draft show and we can hit you with a
Speaker 1: you hit us with a couple of quick questions, We'll
Speaker 1: be happy to do that. So Dave go ahead. This
Speaker 1: is interesting to me because it's I'm obviously one of
Speaker 1: the darlings of the combine combined with a darling for
Speaker 1: the Cowboys fan base. I feel more surprised John Ross's
Speaker 1: four two two forty or Zay Jones with a four
Speaker 1: four five. This one's easy, Zay Jones, say Jones, I mean,
Speaker 1: we knew John Ross could run, but that I mean,
Speaker 1: but to run that fast, I mean, I it's great.
Speaker 1: I don't really did you think he was gonna go
Speaker 1: into four twos. I think some teams have I think
Speaker 1: some teams, I think the numbers are gonna come out
Speaker 1: that some teams had him in the four the four
Speaker 1: one seven, four one six, Right, I know you tweeted
Speaker 1: out you you got some confirmation going on six and
Speaker 1: four one nine one flocks. So look, he said during
Speaker 1: his interview that the fastest he ever ran was a
Speaker 1: four to three. Yeah, you know, so, I you know,
Speaker 1: I'm expecting a fourth three runs a fourth two. He's blazing.
Speaker 1: That's fast. But you know, I know he's fast. I
Speaker 1: don't really think a four two is gonna make me
Speaker 1: push him that much further. Does does the four two
Speaker 1: really do anything for you? Like for me? It doesn't,
Speaker 1: to be totally honest, especially he's a first round player.
Speaker 1: Though he is a first run This is not a
Speaker 1: track guy. This guy's no no, no history scared that,
Speaker 1: but Jesus had no. Absolutely it does. I don't and
Speaker 1: no offense to John Ross like he scares the crap
Speaker 1: out of me. He should absolutely, And that's why I
Speaker 1: Zay Jones, I mean, that's a that's a solid forty time.
Speaker 1: It's not yeah popping, but it's eye popping when you
Speaker 1: compare it to the tape and and everything he's getting
Speaker 1: since the draft cycle started has been like impressive and
Speaker 1: surprising in a good way. Flip it, flip it. Then
Speaker 1: it put put Chris Godwin in there. Then Chris Godwin
Speaker 1: Orszay Jones. Chris Godwin with rolling down there at a
Speaker 1: let's see what he had two range? Yeah that one
Speaker 1: state wide receiver I see and big body guy. Both
Speaker 1: of these guys didn't run to that level on film. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. But with Zay Jones, I feel
Speaker 1: like you can better explain it because the offense that
Speaker 1: he came from right exactly. He wasn't asked to go
Speaker 1: vertical very much. You know. I've mentioned the stats, only
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty eight catches, only four over thirty
Speaker 1: five yards, just a low, low percentage. So I think
Speaker 1: we can better explain that. But with Godwin that that's
Speaker 1: tougher to explain because there was a lot of times
Speaker 1: he'd go down the field and you see people covered him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but he also has that late separation where he can
Speaker 1: get free. Gary Unconley against Ohio State. Oh there, he
Speaker 1: got that in the corner or the end zone. So
Speaker 1: both these players helped themselves, no question. Uh. With Zay Jones,
Speaker 1: what he did the Senior Bowl and then what he
Speaker 1: did hit the combine pretty fresh in everybody's mind. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that one's that one's going to be interesting. Did he
Speaker 1: elevate himself around just by running that? Yeah, not just
Speaker 1: by running that, but I think just since the season ended, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and so he's gone from like a fourth
Speaker 1: round guy to maybe guy you talk in the second round.
Speaker 1: He went from a three four to a two three
Speaker 1: from me. Okay, that's and that's my point is I
Speaker 1: don't think John Ross, he was the first round guy
Speaker 1: before his forty times. It's great, but I don't think
Speaker 1: it changes anything. Zay Jones is a name that has
Speaker 1: shot up this pecking order. Yeah, I agree. And one
Speaker 1: thing I will say about Ross is at this point,
Speaker 1: I don't think it would surprise anybody if he was
Speaker 1: the first wide receiver taken. If that's oh, I hate that.
Speaker 1: Would you throw up in your mouth? A little bit
Speaker 1: up in my mouth? You like, what if what if
Speaker 1: you served twenty eight? I was about to say, I
Speaker 1: didn't want to cut you all off. I mean, you're
Speaker 1: gonna be on record for this. I don't I would
Speaker 1: hate that pick. I don't want to touch a guy
Speaker 1: who's even had the word microfracture breathed around him at
Speaker 1: twenty eight. But I'd love I sense absolutely I would
Speaker 1: take I would take Zay Jones or Godwin at sixty though,
Speaker 1: and I would be I would stand up, I would
Speaker 1: stand up and I would clap for that pick. John Ross.
Speaker 1: I would go. It's a little bit of leap of
Speaker 1: faith because you have to hope that he stays healthy.
Speaker 1: And it's but the luck this team has had with injuries. Well,
Speaker 1: but you look at the other top receivers. Mike Williams,
Speaker 1: he didn't run at the forty yard dash because he knows,
Speaker 1: he knows he can't run and he look and now
Speaker 1: you're thinking about the old miss kid from last year, right,
Speaker 1: you can't help it. And if you have Corey Davis,
Speaker 1: who that's speaking of the record, Yeah, so it's I
Speaker 1: don't know, John Ross. If you if a team, if
Speaker 1: their doctors tell their team and the general manager, Hey,
Speaker 1: you know what, he's had some injury stuff in the past.
Speaker 1: We feel really confident where he is right now, and
Speaker 1: if he gets hurt again, it won't be because of
Speaker 1: past injury. So if that's if if a trainer tells
Speaker 1: their head coach that, and their general manager, that wouldn't
Speaker 1: be shocked. If he's the first receiver taking it scares me.
Speaker 1: I hate it all right, we're we we got sidetracked. No,
Speaker 1: it's a good conversation. More, you're right, you're right. Sorry.
Speaker 1: More surprising Derek Barnett's for eight one forty Taco Charlton
Speaker 1: with a four to nine. Oh well, Barnett was sick
Speaker 1: uh dealing with the excuse well, campaign manager to my right,
Speaker 1: excuse you sound like one of those sacks. You sound
Speaker 1: like a s It's just Miles Garrett, like you playing
Speaker 1: on one like second half of the year, sailin in there.
Speaker 1: But no, I mean, well, Barnett, you know, if you're
Speaker 1: it did run, don't run if you're gonna be you know,
Speaker 1: it's a kind of I get it. You want to
Speaker 1: show these guys that you're tough and you know nothing's
Speaker 1: gonna stop you. But at the same time, um, he's
Speaker 1: setting it up so he's gonna run a lot better
Speaker 1: at Tennessee at the pro day, you know he's Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a little disappointing. Uh, I don't know, doesn't
Speaker 1: he looks like a three four defensive end. In me,
Speaker 1: it's tough when you talk about defensive ends because I
Speaker 1: don't really care that much about the forty yard dash.
Speaker 1: M I mean, it's just you don't how often do
Speaker 1: you see a run or a defensive end run forty
Speaker 1: yards without some type of contact, without uh, you know,
Speaker 1: just any type of You think they would test a
Speaker 1: little better. Yeah, Yeah, it's surprise that that part of
Speaker 1: it is, but that's the testing part. Yeah, But you
Speaker 1: don't I don't think you downgrade right, I'm talking about
Speaker 1: numbers like I know what the hell I'm talking I
Speaker 1: don't know. That doesn't bother Myles Garrett. He's the freak.
Speaker 1: He can do all the crazy stuff these guys. How
Speaker 1: about the bench press on Miles Garrett thirty five? That's
Speaker 1: so far for that bar to go up. I don't
Speaker 1: care about him. Were I know? No Joey Bosa comments
Speaker 1: for me? There? Am I crazy for starting to think
Speaker 1: that both of those guys could be there at twenty eight? Though?
Speaker 1: Is that absolutely nuts? With Barnett and Carlton? Maybe I'm
Speaker 1: buying Maybe I'm buying the you know, everybody goes in
Speaker 1: ups and downs and it's like a roller coach. We
Speaker 1: thought Barnett was gonna be mid round, so damn low
Speaker 1: on him right now. I've got him going top ten.
Speaker 1: So but would you would you agree with me that
Speaker 1: it seems like people are just pushing him down. I
Speaker 1: feel like that's what I keep seeing. Maybe not if
Speaker 1: we're sitting here, If we're sitting there Thursday night and
Speaker 1: he's on the board at twenty eight, are you oh
Speaker 1: absolutely stopped? Well, No, I don't think he's a top
Speaker 1: down player. I think I have my mock draft top ten. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I do think that teams appreciate the production and
Speaker 1: that three cone I mean we could, Yeah, you're a dash.
Speaker 1: We call like the other numbers. That three cone is
Speaker 1: what exactly the evidence that team is going to need
Speaker 1: to say, Hey, this is one of the reasons that
Speaker 1: you know, helped us come to the conclusion he's our
Speaker 1: he's our pick in the first round. I know y'all
Speaker 1: hate my boy Vedante, but do you think he's there
Speaker 1: at twenty eight? That's Taco? Yeah, sorry, that's Taco Charles.
Speaker 1: I think he is there. I don't know if i'd
Speaker 1: take I wouldn't. I wouldn't take him. He can't capture
Speaker 1: the edge. It's pretty fair in this. It's the left end.
Speaker 1: He is a left end in the scot that's fine.
Speaker 1: Though you need a left end. They have a left end.
Speaker 1: Well tech, you're right, technically they do. I thought de
Speaker 1: Marcus Lawrence was a right in coming out of college.
Speaker 1: So it's what we sat here for two months saying
Speaker 1: we can go back and find the tape. Oh no,
Speaker 1: we got some good tape. I was talking about Dak
Speaker 1: Prescott though, too. Oh my god, it's just I'm so frustrated.
Speaker 1: I just want good pass rushers. But he got team
Speaker 1: all right, I do too, O. J Howard David and
Speaker 1: Joku twenty Howard twenty two reps at two twenty five
Speaker 1: and Joku twenty one at two twenty five more surprising.
Speaker 1: I didn't know if a Joku was that strong, and
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that twenty one is. I thought Howard
Speaker 1: would do more what I think he was going to
Speaker 1: be like a twenty seven twenty eight guy. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't think that. I thought both were right around
Speaker 1: where they needed to be. So that doesn't that neither
Speaker 1: one of those surprise. You know, maybe in Jokey just
Speaker 1: because he is so young and he's not really developed
Speaker 1: to the point where you want him to be. I
Speaker 1: think he gets stronger former track guy, Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think he's get much bigger, but
Speaker 1: I do think he can get stronger, and he needs
Speaker 1: to at the point of attack to be a better blocker.
Speaker 1: But he's always he's gonna make his money down the
Speaker 1: field as a receiving tight end. He always will. I
Speaker 1: had a scout tell me, he goes, Yeah, this group
Speaker 1: of tight ends ran really fast because then him or
Speaker 1: tight ends, Well, yeah, I have an ingram. He's not
Speaker 1: a tight end, he's a wide receiver. I I There's
Speaker 1: might not be anything I love more in football than
Speaker 1: like an athletic tight end who can create a mismatch.
Speaker 1: It's just it's one of the most fun things to watch.
Speaker 1: But and for that reason, I'm intrigued by David and Joku.
Speaker 1: But I maybe I just have a bad taste in
Speaker 1: my mouth from Gavin Escobar. But like I just with
Speaker 1: the Cowboys second round core, the second round tight end.
Speaker 1: The Cowboys use him, right, you know, if he can't
Speaker 1: do what a tight end spos to do with this
Speaker 1: team know what to do with him. Like they love that.
Speaker 1: I mean like they want faint, they want Jake Butt.
Speaker 1: And that's what I can talk myself into. O. J.
Speaker 1: Howard because he at least he can do it twenty eight. Sure, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's fine, you're a twenty twenty eight. David and Joku though,
Speaker 1: like I don't I don't need to watch him make
Speaker 1: like a couple of like three wow plays a year
Speaker 1: and then catches a year. Yeah, fester on the bench
Speaker 1: for their Just no, I don't trust them that's shaheen
Speaker 1: in the second round. That's fine, that's fine, take it round.
Speaker 1: Went on that he's not gonna fall to your third round. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're you're right. If they just random thought that I
Speaker 1: had because Dane said point of attack, what if they
Speaker 1: drafted tack McKinley the headlines right themselves, you know, point
Speaker 1: of attack, of attack. There you go, speaking of which
Speaker 1: we talked about. And I'm interested in this because we
Speaker 1: talked we tack Is. We've beaten him into the ground.
Speaker 1: We talked about attack and Willis at the beginning. So
Speaker 1: Willis six point eight five three cone, McKinley seven point
Speaker 1: four eight three cone. One guy. Okay, that's full second.
Speaker 1: Set it up. One guy you love on tape, the
Speaker 1: other guy you don't love so much on tape, and
Speaker 1: then they reverse their results at the combine. What does
Speaker 1: that mean to you? It's confusing. That's the thing that
Speaker 1: hurts you, because I think there's things with Willis, like
Speaker 1: we said earlier, that are positive with him. You know
Speaker 1: that got a great first step, got a great first step.
Speaker 1: But McKinley, you're thinking, man like, hey, this guy, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, I mean, he's he's he's
Speaker 1: an all He's an all timer to me as far
Speaker 1: as you know, maybe the guy that could be that
Speaker 1: edge player, they could play both side. Al timer, well,
Speaker 1: all timer in the way of he's got that kind
Speaker 1: of athletic ability. Yeah, And with Willis, there's so many
Speaker 1: times where you don't see him changing directions. He ends
Speaker 1: up way past the pocket. Yeah, you know, and he
Speaker 1: just doesn't show off that change of direction that he
Speaker 1: he did in three cone drills. So if he's if
Speaker 1: he has that type of ability in a three cone
Speaker 1: I want to see it on the football field, and
Speaker 1: maybe he can. He just doesn't use that to his
Speaker 1: advantage when he's in the quarterback. Okay, Tack and Tack
Speaker 1: and John Ross great players that I just I'm they're
Speaker 1: off my board. I don't want either one of them
Speaker 1: because of injuries, right, yeah, because of injuries. All that's
Speaker 1: just I don't need it. I don't need that stress up.
Speaker 1: This will be really interesting. Can't do we have time
Speaker 1: for one call? Well, everybody check it in. Have one call? Yeah,
Speaker 1: who do we got can't go ahead? Donovan, Donovan, you're
Speaker 1: on with the guys. Go ahead, Hey, guys. Huge fan
Speaker 1: here from Charlotte. You big fan of A Jones. I
Speaker 1: also go to UCU, so see him around campus. He's
Speaker 1: an awesome dude. I just want to ask you guys
Speaker 1: real quick, what exactly happened with Ruben Foster. I'm curious
Speaker 1: about that. I haven't seen a whole lot on that.
Speaker 1: Do you guys think you will possibly drop to twenty eight? Um? Also,
Speaker 1: Tim Williams, did you guys learn a whole lot about
Speaker 1: his offield issues. I'll get off and I'll listen to
Speaker 1: you guys on there. Yeah, thanks to the call. What
Speaker 1: I know about Foster real quick? And we were not
Speaker 1: at the Alabama prote I'll try and figure out some
Speaker 1: more things about Williams and that combined, you really didn't
Speaker 1: learn a whole lot listen to him talk about that.
Speaker 1: But what I learned about Foster was that they were
Speaker 1: they were in a they were in line to get
Speaker 1: get their medical checks done. And I said it earlier,
Speaker 1: Foster is taking pain medication for his shoulder, and he
Speaker 1: had not taken his medication for that. Became a little
Speaker 1: bit irritable in that situation. Had an altercation with an
Speaker 1: attendant there at the hospital about how long things were
Speaker 1: taken a lot of these kids. I've said it before.
Speaker 1: I mentioned on a radio bunch that this is a
Speaker 1: very very very long day for them. The medicals, it's
Speaker 1: very difficult because the colleges no longer give the doctors
Speaker 1: the medical information they need. So it's basically seen three
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty new patients if you're doctors, So it
Speaker 1: becomes a very long day. I've heard of some groups
Speaker 1: getting split up at the combine going to get a
Speaker 1: check done and then that trying to save some time,
Speaker 1: and then the same the group that went early had
Speaker 1: to come back again the next day to get more
Speaker 1: things done. So yeah, it sounds it sounds like to
Speaker 1: me though, that that foster became very agitated with the situation.
Speaker 1: There was the altercation right there. Some people had to
Speaker 1: grab him before he got to two out of hand there.
Speaker 1: As far as as far as where he falls, I
Speaker 1: don't think he falls, I really really not drastically. No.
Speaker 1: And I had some I had some doctors and trainers
Speaker 1: and scouts and stuff tell me this. They said, they
Speaker 1: said that they're surprised this has not happened before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and something needs to be done again. Not defending the kid,
Speaker 1: but it's a difficult situation. These kids, they're trying to
Speaker 1: get to meetings, they're trying to do the right thing.
Speaker 1: He was wrong in what he did and get to
Speaker 1: the altercation. But it sounds like though that he was
Speaker 1: in some discomfort and then that's what led to his agitation. Williams.
Speaker 1: I mean, his press conference was not overly impressive. No,
Speaker 1: not at all. I mean, you know, people, you want
Speaker 1: to talk about the specifics of the baggage. You're talking
Speaker 1: about drug stuff, right, You had a firearm so he
Speaker 1: carries in his car all the time, they said, and
Speaker 1: it would not do and like yeah, so yeah, so
Speaker 1: you just have to worry about who's who are the
Speaker 1: type of people he hangs around with. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: is the people he surrounds himself with. He's a hard
Speaker 1: guy to trust, and because of those trust issues, I
Speaker 1: think there's a much better chance we see him one
Speaker 1: day two than we do day one. Ye could be
Speaker 1: that guy the war Daddy's past. If he's we talked
Speaker 1: about it at the combine, If they're at sixty, oh
Speaker 1: my god, report two. Yep, there you go. Okay. I
Speaker 1: want to thank you everybody out there for listening. Thank
Speaker 1: you very much for participating with us. Thank you for
Speaker 1: thanks for day Brugler, excuse me, David Hellman, Kink Garrison,
Speaker 1: Executive producer Derek Eagleton, thank you for always getting us
Speaker 1: on the air here, Taylor Stern for pushing our stuff out.
Speaker 1: I want to thank ed Ka Hill as well for
Speaker 1: coming up with this idea a long time ago. We
Speaker 1: will see you next week with more investigation and education
Speaker 1: this drop show. This has been a production of Dallas
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