WEBVTT - 8 Steps for Overcoming Imposter Syndrome & How to Be a Continuous Learner 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.880 Hey, everyone, Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:05.800 health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.200 one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:13.400 and grow. Now this episode is a conversation with Alex Lieberman, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.759 who's a co founder of Morning Brew and on his 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:20.400 podcast Impostors. I think we got into some really interesting 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:22.800 topics that I don't always get to dive in. I 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:25.760 got to open up about my entrepreneurship journey. I got 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:28.680 to talk more about social media and business. You're also 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:31.360 going to hear my insights on when I feel anxiety 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:33.440 and when I feel like an impostor. So to me, 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:37.000 this is a really deep dive into my mindset from 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:40.120 the perspective of an interviewee, and I think you're really 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:43.519 going to enjoy this episode, especially if you've been listening 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:47.200 along every Friday hearing my insights. So don't skip this one. 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:49.559 Don't miss this one. You're gonna love it. Thank you 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:52.479 for lending me your ears, whether you're walking, running at 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:55.639 the gym, walking your dog, cooking, whatever you're up to. 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:59.200 Thank you for listening to On Purpose. When I finally 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:01.960 got a job after rejections, and I met people and 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:03.800 they were twenty one and I was twenty six. Now, 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:05.360 by the time I stied my first job, I was 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.560 twenty six years old. I realized that I had actually 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:11.399 had the greatest advantage, which was I had massive self lands. 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:14.920 I knew what my strengths were, I knew what my 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:17.360 weaknesses were, I knew what I had to offer, and 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.399 I knew what I wanted to do. And I was 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:24.080 just like, I just took the biggest risk, potentially one 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:26.399 of the biggest career risks in life, by becoming a monk. 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:33.400 I should be scared of anything anywhere. Welcome to Impostors, 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:38.720 the show where I have revealing conversations with world class execs, athletes, 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:43.000 and entertainers about their personal challenges and how overcoming those 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:46.199 challenges I shaped their careers and lives for the better. 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:49.400 And I hope that it helps you along your personal journey. 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:53.080 I'm your host, Alex Lieberman, co founder and executive chairman 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.760 of Morning Brew. Before we get started, make sure to 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:58.800 subscribe and click the bell so you get notified every 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:02.240 time Morning Brew drop new video. Let's dive in. My 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:05.480 guest today is Jay Chetty. Jay is the host of 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.440 the podcast On Purpose and the author of the New 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.360 York Times best selling book Think Like a Monk. For 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.840 the past several years, Jay has been working hard to, 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:17.520 as he puts it, make wisdom go viral, which he 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.440 does by sharing insights with his millions of followers on 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:23.720 Facebook and Instagram, and with his over seven billion views 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:27.360 on YouTube. Jay's wisdom has been lauded by powerhouses like 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:30.679 Oprah and Ellen, and has been named on Forbes's thirty 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.760 Under thirty list. But Jay's Patt's success has been anything 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:36.960 but linear, as we'll discuss in our interview. In fact, 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:38.880 to get to where he is today, Jay had to 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:43.640 take some incredibly hard and unconventional career risks and overcome 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:47.560 massive amounts of imposter syndrome. Jay Chetty, thank you so 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.200 much for joining impostors. I want to say thank you 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.440 to you. I mean, We've been working towards this for 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:54.919 a long time, so I'm so grateful for all your 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:57.680 love online. I love connecting with someone over Twitter. I 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:00.080 think that's what we connected over. Yea, we connect over 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.760 Twitter at first, then a few times on Instagram, a 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.120 few times over email. But it's just interesting the world 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:06.560 we live in where I have so many friends that 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:09.200 I've never actually met in life, but I feel a 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.200 closeness to them in so many ways. Yeah, definitely, I 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:14.280 feel that WM towards you too, and I'm glad that 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:17.720 we're finally meeting in person that thank you for the opportunity. Absolutely. So, 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:19.960 I don't know how else to say it other than 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:23.359 it feels like you've had seven careers in your life. 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.720 It feels like you have just experienced so many different things, 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.200 and people I think today know you as someone who's 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:34.520 making wisdom go viral, as a podcast host, is someone 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.360 who's written a book, does all these things, but You've 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:39.680 had so many other experiences in your life that have 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.040 kind of informed where you are now. And so I 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.120 would love for you to take me from the beginning. 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.840 What was childhood like for a young Jay Chetty. So 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:50.880 I did this interesting activity recently where I sat down 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.839 and I realized I'd been working for around twenty years now, 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:57.000 and how old are you? Thirty four okay, and so 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.200 around twenty twenty two years, and I just I was like, Wow, 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:02.160 that's that's an interesting number. And I sat down and 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:04.760 I wrote down every job I'd ever have. I have 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.240 in my notes section on my phone. But I think 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:08.480 I can say it from my memory, let me go 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:10.840 through it. I don't know the number, but so it 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:15.720 was newspaper boy, like paper delivery dude. Worked in a 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:20.760 grocery store stacking shelves. Then worked in retail selling like 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:25.920 women's clothes, denim, that kind of stuff. Then was a tutor. 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:30.120 I coached students at college to make extra money in 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:34.520 younger years in things like economics and psychology and philosophy 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.640 and things like that. And then I lived as a 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:41.080 monk for three years. Then I worked as a digital 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:44.920 strategy and innovation consultant at Accentia. Then I was a 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:48.760 senior host and producer at Huffington Post. Then I started 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:53.200 my entrepreneurial journey, which now has led to books, podcasting, media, 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.719 everything else. So at least eight, which I think is 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.360 such an important thing to call out because I think 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:00.600 people will look at you today and be like, God, 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:04.000 this guy he has it all. He's in his mid thirties, 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:07.719 super wise, he's built a massive audience. You know, he 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:11.120 has all these different lines of business, Like clearly he 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.160 has it all figured out. And I think just by 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.039 you lying out these whatever it is, nine ten jobs 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:19.000 that you've had, it has been anything but all in 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:21.000 your path to get there. And I'm sure from your 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:22.880 perspective it's like you don't have it all figure out 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:27.600 at all. You're just working not at all, not at 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.479 all end uh And yeah, it's just fun looking back 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:32.560 that way, yeah, and trying to piece it out. But sorry, 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:34.479 I'll answer your question. I just thought that was interesting 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:37.080 and I recommend everyone does that activity. I think we 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.520 often also think about our careers is when I graduate 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.320 from college and like, but that's that's not your career, 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:44.599 Like your career starts whenever you choose for it to start. 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:48.760 The question about my childhood or where the first job? 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.960 Again you your childhood, Yeah, I'd say that I was 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:57.120 born and raised in a family where obedience discipline were 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.360 top priority. Performing well at school was really in pordant 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:02.919 to my parents, and so despite me going to a 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:06.880 fairly rough school where education wasn't a priority of my peers, 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:12.039 my parents were emphasizing homework, after schoolwork, extracurriculus. I was 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.680 being trained from the age of eight to get into 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:16.520 a grammar school, which is a school you have to 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:19.240 take an exam for that gives you a private level 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:21.520 education without having to pay for it. My parents didn't 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:23.039 have the money to send me a private school, but 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:25.479 they wanted me to work hard in order to do that, 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.839 and so I felt like I lived a very disciplined 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.440 life that obviously, when you're a kid, there's moments where 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:35.720 you accepted normality and then there's times when you're like, oh, 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:37.520 I just want to hang out. And now I look 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:39.680 back and feel really grateful that my parents made me 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:41.600 do that, because I think it gave me a certain 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:46.080 way of working that I wouldn't have developed otherwise. And 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.720 I was pretty much a teacher's pet up until about 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:52.360 age fourteen, and then age fourteen was when I went 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:55.720 off the rails side through rebel, started getting involved in 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:59.040 the wrong groups, wrong circles, getting involved in activities that 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:04.320 I wouldn't recommend to anyone, everything from experimenting with drugs, 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:10.840 through the violence, through to you know, just nefarious, stupid 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.240 activities and stuff that I think most kids do. But 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.240 I think we just got into it really young, Like 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:18.600 fourteen was a bit young for that. And then by 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:20.640 the time I was eighteen, I was kind of done 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:24.520 and I've kind of exhausted all of the craziness. And 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.720 it was actually my dad who started handing me biographies 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:31.480 and autobiographies. So my dad was worried that I didn't 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:34.280 like reading, and so was my mom. I really hated 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:36.760 reading fictions. I hated reading fictions, so I don't think 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:38.840 I read a book until I was fourteen. My dad 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.800 started to give me biographies and autobiographies, and I read 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:45.120 Malcolm X, I read Mike Luther King. I also read 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.160 David Beckham and Dwaine the Rock Johnson because I was 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:49.880 a big wrestling in soccer fan growing up, and so 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:53.600 I was reading these really diverse biographies and autobiographies and 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:55.680 I was thinking, Wow, these people have all done something 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.920 phenomenal with their life. And that's where I started to 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:02.680 get fascinated by development and personal growth without knowing what 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:05.560 that was. So two questions. One is when you were 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.360 going through kind of this phase after fourteen, of being 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:12.680 more rebellious, of just experimenting, what was it inside of 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:14.920 you that was driving you to do this? And do 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:16.480 you think at that point in your life you had 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:20.080 a sense of who you were, what you wanted to be. Yeah. Yeah, 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.360 there was a certain self awareness at the time that 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:24.360 I could hear as a little voice in my head 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.000 of my heart that was like, you don't want to 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.000 do that, You're not good at that, do this, and 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.880 it was actually healthy. So my parents wanted me to 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:38.240 do medicine or science or you know, law or engineering, 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.520 and for me, those things scared me. I was like, 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:43.360 I'm not really interested in those things. And I could 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:45.400 have that voice inside of me that was like, do art, 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:48.880 do philosophy, do economics, do design? Like those are the 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:51.760 things I gravitated towards. And it was almost like I 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.080 started to listen to that voice and I started to 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:57.680 not ignore that voice because it was so strong, and 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:01.120 I almost had this rejection towards anything else that wasn't that. 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.720 At the same time, I think there was a me 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:07.080 being naive. There was a bit of wanting to fit in. 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.160 There was wanting validation, wanting to be cool, wanting to 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:13.520 be liked, and then that part of me was seeking 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.240 the wrong activities or the bad circles. So it's like 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.199 this weird juxtaposition of your self awareness, which is guiding 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:23.560 you in the right direction, but then your low self esteem, 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:25.959 which is guiding you in the wrong direction. And so 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:27.920 you've got these two things pulling on you and you 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.240 obviously don't know this as a sixteen year old. I 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.640 can only say this in hindsight, but at the time, 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:34.480 I just thought, yeah, I fit in here. I'm trying 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:36.840 to look cool here. I think people will like me 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:38.839 if I'm this way. And then it's like, but wait 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:40.640 a minute. I don't want to be forced to do 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:43.320 things I don't care about. So that's I was grappling 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.160 with that. Absolutely I'm interested. You know, as we move 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:48.600 forward in your life, you ended up going to school 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.520 to university thinking you were going to work in whether 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:57.160 it's financial services or consulting, and then kind of by happenstance, 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:02.800 you were introduced to the work of monks and ultimately decided, 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:07.440 after you know, three summers visiting the ashram, to become 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.280 a monk for three years. How hard was that decision 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:15.480 when you just had talked about during your rebellious years, 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:17.600 at least a part of you was driven by kind 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:22.080 of the need for validation. I would say it wasn't 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:25.040 actially a popular decision to become a monk, Like, it 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:27.720 wasn't something that was familiar to other people. So how 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.480 were you able to kind of withstand called the pressure 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:36.360 from others to do what was expected of you, Yeah, 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:39.280 I think we're always living two lives. One is the 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.240 life you want and the other is the life you 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:46.319 think others one you to live, and we get stuck 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:49.640 in between those two lives, and often we feel like 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:51.880 we're living too far off the edge of what other 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:53.840 people want us to live, and often we feel like 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:55.960 we're living too close to the version we want to live. 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.760 And that dance is really fascinating as life goes on. 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:04.760 And what I found at the time was I was 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.800 being drawn closer and closer and closer to my own values, 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:10.640 and I was being drawn closer and closer and closer 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:14.200 to what was important to me. So at that time, 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:15.720 if you asked me what I thought I was going 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:17.960 to be, I would have said something like, I'm going 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.280 to be a rapper, right. I love spoken word, I 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.760 love writing lyrics. I loved music. I played the drum kid, 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.959 I played the piano growing up. I can't play anything anymore. 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:29.560 And I was highly into music, and I was like, 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:31.080 I want a career in music. That's what I probably 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.400 would have said. And then as time moved on, I 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.800 would have moved away to being Okay, let's be more realistic. Jay, 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.720 you can't do that. That's not real for an Indian 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.319 kid growing up in London. Let's be more realistic. And 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.120 I was like, well, maybe I want to be an 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:51.240 art designer or an art manager at a magazine because 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:55.120 I loved art, love design. And then it's like, oh no, no, Jay, 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.520 be more realistic. That's not really a career path because 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:01.320 everyone and your everyone who you're surrounded by is doing 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:04.240 far more serious and real careers than that. Okay, let's 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:06.280 go and get a business degree. Right. It's like you 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:08.880 literally go from this is the truth of what I 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:10.640 want to let me water it down a bit, and 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:12.840 then to let me completely water it down. So I 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.000 remember telling my art teacher, who I was really good 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:17.840 friends with that at college, telling him I'm turning down 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:20.160 my offers to go to like art school, which is 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:22.160 what I thought I wanted to do, to go and 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:26.360 do a management science degree, you know, at Cass Business School. 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.160 And you know, he was joking around, it's like, you're 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:31.880 such a sellout, Like I was like, I am, I'm 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.640 a sellout. That's terrible. And that's kind of where round 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.400 it up. And it's really fascinating that I went there 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:39.400 because I was like, this is the safe thing to do, 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.040 and then I do the least safe thing in the 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.679 world by becoming a monk. And so it's really fascinating 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:46.280 how I went on that end of the spectrum and 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.840 then I want to go back. So I think what 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.000 happened is there's only so long you can stay away 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:55.559 from your true calling. And you can push it down, 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.080 you can ignore it, you can suppress it as much 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:00.839 as you like, but it's going to keep showing up 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.880 in really uncomfortable ways, and it will start quiet, but 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.720 it will get louder. And for me, it got really 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:11.560 loud at twenty one when I thought to myself, which 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:13.360 life do I want to live? Do I want to 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:15.640 live a life of chasing success or do I want 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.000 to live a life of service? And I would say 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:22.679 that that decision at twenty one became easy because of 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.200 the three years of experience before. And I think people 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.600 look at that it's like, that's a big change, But 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.679 that big change was easy because there were lots of 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:35.040 small experiences that led up to it. And so every summer, 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.240 like you rightly said, I'd go to live with the monks, 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:42.240 and that many experiment every summer made me confident that 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.079 if I did this long term that I would enjoy it, 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.000 and I think people think, oh, no, you just change 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:49.160 your life. It's like, no, I didn't, so and you're right. 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:50.720 I'm glad you raised this because a lot of people 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:52.560 say to me today, they're like, Jay, you really like 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:54.480 use this monk thing as part of your story. And 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.520 I'm like, trust me, becoming a monk is not a story. 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:59.600 Like when you're twenty one, becoming a monk was the 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:03.120 least cool thing I could possibly to my friends. And 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.160 this is honest, Just my guy friends thought I was gay, 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:09.000 Like literally, that's the response I got. That's how far 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.840 behind things were, like you're gay, right, Like that's I'm like, 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:15.520 how is this? Like how is that even connected to? 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.439 But that's what they thought. Girls didn't want to talk 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.440 to me anymore because they thought they weren't allowed to 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:22.800 talk to me. And what was happening in my path 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.480 And then my family thought that I'd wasted my parents 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.080 investment in me and my education. Yeah, and so everyone's saying, 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:31.200 you've committed career suicide. You're never going to get a 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.720 job again, and you're ruining your parents' life, and it's 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:37.720 just so interesting again just thinking about your own development 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:39.880 and your own awareness that you were able to get 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:41.880 to a place where despite all of that, you know 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.240 people saying, oh, you must be gay, or you can't 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.360 see women, Oh it's career suicide, that somehow you had 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:50.880 gotten to this point in your life where you felt 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:54.080 enough connection to your values or what you deem to 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.280 be your calling that you were willing to do that. 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:59.280 Because I would say that is very difficult at any 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.440 stage of life, but it's exceptionally difficult as a twenty 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.400 one year old when there is so much social pressure. Yeah, 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.320 and I give all the credit to my monk mentors 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.200 and teachers and guides, because it's not I didn't have 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:15.440 that resilience, but they'd given me an experience of something, 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.200 and I believe that that experience was more powerful than 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.000 my feelings or what I was hearing. And that's why 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:24.040 I think we try and make decisions in our head. Now, 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:25.760 we try and figure everything out in our head, and 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:27.520 we're like, if I can figure this out in my mind, 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:30.080 then I'll figure out in life. And it's like, no, 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.400 go and have a real life experience. Go and do 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.040 the thing for a short amount of time, and then 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.040 you'll know what to do, And so I think you 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:40.040 can only spend that much time in your head figuring 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:45.000 out personality tests and conversations and questions and reflecting and introspecting, 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:47.200 and after a while, she's got to go do the thing. 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:50.120 And if I never went and spent those summers living 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:51.880 as a monk, I would never have wanted to be one, 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:54.760 because I would know what it feels like. Totally interested 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:56.560 for you to talk in a second about when you 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.440 went to become a monk, the work you did, and 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.840 how you knew that you enjoyed that work, because what 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:07.040 I've even realized, right after selling a business in the 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:11.000 last few years and thinking about what's next, I always 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.800 will intellectualize. How do I know if I am enjoying 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:15.680 the things that I'm doing? Do I love this work? 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:18.280 Am I passionate about it? And the issue is the 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:20.720 more that I overthink am I passionate about this thing? 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.920 The less I feel passionate about it because I'm intellectualizing 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.280 the experience. So tell me, you know, what was it 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:28.720 like to be on the ashram for three years? And 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.640 how did you know at least some part of that 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:37.160 work was truly what you're calling was, Yeah, so there's 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:40.320 two parts to any work we do. There's the process 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:44.120 and there's the result. And loving the work you do 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:48.720 means you love the process and you accept the result. 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:51.720 Whereas the way we've been trained in modern society is 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.200 all that matters is the result. If the result is good, 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.680 then you must love your job. If you see someone 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.200 win an oscar, they must love their job. If you 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:02.960 see someone make lots of money and sell their company, 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:06.600 they must be happy. So we define someone's happiness based 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.720 on how the result is, whereas all ancient wisdom would 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.160 suggest is happiness is based on how much you enjoy 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:16.479 the process. And the process is as enjoyable as you 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:20.119 believe it's aligned with your values and what you care about. 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:22.600 And so at the time, my goal of becoming a 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.800 monk was simple. I wanted to learn to master my mind, 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:32.720 my ego, my envy, my jealousy, my comparison, and my illusion. 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:35.720 And I wanted to serve. I wanted to improve the 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:37.679 lives of other people. I wanted my life to make 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.080 a difference in other people's lives. So I knew that 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:43.280 as long as I was doing work in those two areas, 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:47.320 no matter what activity you do you'd be happy. And 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:49.120 I think that's another challenge we do. We get locked 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:51.359 up in the activity. Do I like being an interviewer? 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:53.760 Do I like being a writer? Do I like being 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.080 a podcaster? And if you ask me, I'm like, I 0:17:56.080 --> 0:18:00.520 would use any tool possible to master my mind and 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.280 improve the lives of other people. I'm not attached to 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.800 what medium or furum. I only use social media because 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:09.280 it was the last option. It was the last thing 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.119 I wanted to use, but there was no other option 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.040 that I had because no one else would give me 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:17.480 a chance. So I'm not attached the medium or the role. 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.040 It's like, you're focused on what do you want to 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.040 bring to the world and what intention are you bringing in? 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:28.360 So to me, it's about figuring out what you're truly 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:32.280 trying to create for yourself. And so during my time 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:33.960 as a monk, I was waking up at four am. 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.480 We were meditating for four to eight hours a day. 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:38.600 You're sleeping on the floor, you don't have a bed, 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.480 All your possessions fit inside a gym locker and you 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:45.520 do that every day. Do I enjoy that? No? Am 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.840 I passionate about that? No? But I believe it's going 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.639 to help me master my mind. Okay, I'm in I 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.000 can do that. Right. Every day we were out in 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.800 the sun. It's one hundred and ten fahrenheit, right, it's hot. 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.320 You're out there laying bricks, out there doing agricultural work 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.840 on the farm. Do I enjoy that? No? Do I 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:07.840 really love that? No? But do I believe that that 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.200 it positively improves the lives of other people that we're serving? Yes, 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:15.840 okay it fits. And so I enjoyed the process because 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.680 I trust the process is giving me what I need. 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.640 But I don't have to enjoy that direct activity, right, 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:23.879 because that's pleasure. Well, I feel like that's such an 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.480 important nuance, right, because you talk about enjoying the process, 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:28.600 and if someone here's what you're saying, like, No, I 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:31.480 didn't enjoy laying bricks, I didn't enjoy agriculture, they'd be like, 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:34.400 but isn't that the process? And I think the distinction 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.320 you make is their activities that sit within this process. 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.840 It's not necessarily about enjoying those, It's about how do 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:45.080 these serve ultimately what you're trying to accomplish, the values 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:48.480 you're trying to live out correct and that, Yeah, I 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:50.719 love that you're making that distinction, and maybe I can 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:55.120 articulate it better. I didn't love the activity, but I 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:58.040 loved what was happening to my intention while I did 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.320 the activity. Yeah, and that's what you're falling in love with. 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:04.080 And I get that that's a really like meta theorial idea. 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:07.399 But it's like you are looking at that going I 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:11.400