1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: and grow. Now this episode is a conversation with Alex Lieberman, 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: who's a co founder of Morning Brew and on his 6 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: podcast Impostors. I think we got into some really interesting 7 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: topics that I don't always get to dive in. I 8 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: got to open up about my entrepreneurship journey. I got 9 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: to talk more about social media and business. You're also 10 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: going to hear my insights on when I feel anxiety 11 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: and when I feel like an impostor. So to me, 12 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: this is a really deep dive into my mindset from 13 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: the perspective of an interviewee, and I think you're really 14 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: going to enjoy this episode, especially if you've been listening 15 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: along every Friday hearing my insights. So don't skip this one. 16 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: Don't miss this one. You're gonna love it. Thank you 17 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: for lending me your ears, whether you're walking, running at 18 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,639 Speaker 1: the gym, walking your dog, cooking, whatever you're up to. 19 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to On Purpose. When I finally 20 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: got a job after rejections, and I met people and 21 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: they were twenty one and I was twenty six. Now, 22 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: by the time I stied my first job, I was 23 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: twenty six years old. I realized that I had actually 24 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: had the greatest advantage, which was I had massive self lands. 25 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: I knew what my strengths were, I knew what my 26 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: weaknesses were, I knew what I had to offer, and 27 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: I knew what I wanted to do. And I was 28 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: just like, I just took the biggest risk, potentially one 29 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: of the biggest career risks in life, by becoming a monk. 30 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: I should be scared of anything anywhere. Welcome to Impostors, 31 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: the show where I have revealing conversations with world class execs, athletes, 32 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: and entertainers about their personal challenges and how overcoming those 33 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,199 Speaker 1: challenges I shaped their careers and lives for the better. 34 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: And I hope that it helps you along your personal journey. 35 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Alex Lieberman, co founder and executive chairman 36 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: of Morning Brew. Before we get started, make sure to 37 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: subscribe and click the bell so you get notified every 38 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: time Morning Brew drop new video. Let's dive in. My 39 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: guest today is Jay Chetty. Jay is the host of 40 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: the podcast On Purpose and the author of the New 41 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: York Times best selling book Think Like a Monk. For 42 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: the past several years, Jay has been working hard to, 43 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: as he puts it, make wisdom go viral, which he 44 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: does by sharing insights with his millions of followers on 45 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: Facebook and Instagram, and with his over seven billion views 46 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: on YouTube. Jay's wisdom has been lauded by powerhouses like 47 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,679 Speaker 1: Oprah and Ellen, and has been named on Forbes's thirty 48 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: Under thirty list. But Jay's Patt's success has been anything 49 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: but linear, as we'll discuss in our interview. In fact, 50 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: to get to where he is today, Jay had to 51 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: take some incredibly hard and unconventional career risks and overcome 52 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: massive amounts of imposter syndrome. Jay Chetty, thank you so 53 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: much for joining impostors. I want to say thank you 54 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: to you. I mean, We've been working towards this for 55 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 1: a long time, so I'm so grateful for all your 56 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: love online. I love connecting with someone over Twitter. I 57 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 1: think that's what we connected over. Yea, we connect over 58 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: Twitter at first, then a few times on Instagram, a 59 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: few times over email. But it's just interesting the world 60 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: we live in where I have so many friends that 61 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: I've never actually met in life, but I feel a 62 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: closeness to them in so many ways. Yeah, definitely, I 63 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: feel that WM towards you too, and I'm glad that 64 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: we're finally meeting in person that thank you for the opportunity. Absolutely. So, 65 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: I don't know how else to say it other than 66 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: it feels like you've had seven careers in your life. 67 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: It feels like you have just experienced so many different things, 68 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: and people I think today know you as someone who's 69 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: making wisdom go viral, as a podcast host, is someone 70 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: who's written a book, does all these things, but You've 71 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: had so many other experiences in your life that have 72 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: kind of informed where you are now. And so I 73 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: would love for you to take me from the beginning. 74 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: What was childhood like for a young Jay Chetty. So 75 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: I did this interesting activity recently where I sat down 76 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,839 Speaker 1: and I realized I'd been working for around twenty years now, 77 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: and how old are you? Thirty four okay, and so 78 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: around twenty twenty two years, and I just I was like, Wow, 79 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: that's that's an interesting number. And I sat down and 80 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: I wrote down every job I'd ever have. I have 81 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: in my notes section on my phone. But I think 82 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: I can say it from my memory, let me go 83 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: through it. I don't know the number, but so it 84 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: was newspaper boy, like paper delivery dude. Worked in a 85 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: grocery store stacking shelves. Then worked in retail selling like 86 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: women's clothes, denim, that kind of stuff. Then was a tutor. 87 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: I coached students at college to make extra money in 88 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: younger years in things like economics and psychology and philosophy 89 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: and things like that. And then I lived as a 90 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: monk for three years. Then I worked as a digital 91 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: strategy and innovation consultant at Accentia. Then I was a 92 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: senior host and producer at Huffington Post. Then I started 93 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: my entrepreneurial journey, which now has led to books, podcasting, media, 94 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: everything else. So at least eight, which I think is 95 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: such an important thing to call out because I think 96 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: people will look at you today and be like, God, 97 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: this guy he has it all. He's in his mid thirties, 98 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: super wise, he's built a massive audience. You know, he 99 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: has all these different lines of business, Like clearly he 100 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: has it all figured out. And I think just by 101 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 1: you lying out these whatever it is, nine ten jobs 102 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: that you've had, it has been anything but all in 103 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: your path to get there. And I'm sure from your 104 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: perspective it's like you don't have it all figure out 105 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: at all. You're just working not at all, not at 106 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 1: all end uh And yeah, it's just fun looking back 107 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: that way, yeah, and trying to piece it out. But sorry, 108 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: I'll answer your question. I just thought that was interesting 109 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: and I recommend everyone does that activity. I think we 110 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: often also think about our careers is when I graduate 111 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: from college and like, but that's that's not your career, 112 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: Like your career starts whenever you choose for it to start. 113 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: The question about my childhood or where the first job? 114 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: Again you your childhood, Yeah, I'd say that I was 115 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: born and raised in a family where obedience discipline were 116 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: top priority. Performing well at school was really in pordant 117 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: to my parents, and so despite me going to a 118 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: fairly rough school where education wasn't a priority of my peers, 119 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 1: my parents were emphasizing homework, after schoolwork, extracurriculus. I was 120 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: being trained from the age of eight to get into 121 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: a grammar school, which is a school you have to 122 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: take an exam for that gives you a private level 123 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: education without having to pay for it. My parents didn't 124 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: have the money to send me a private school, but 125 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 1: they wanted me to work hard in order to do that, 126 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: and so I felt like I lived a very disciplined 127 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: life that obviously, when you're a kid, there's moments where 128 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: you accepted normality and then there's times when you're like, oh, 129 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: I just want to hang out. And now I look 130 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: back and feel really grateful that my parents made me 131 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 1: do that, because I think it gave me a certain 132 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: way of working that I wouldn't have developed otherwise. And 133 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 1: I was pretty much a teacher's pet up until about 134 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: age fourteen, and then age fourteen was when I went 135 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: off the rails side through rebel, started getting involved in 136 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: the wrong groups, wrong circles, getting involved in activities that 137 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: I wouldn't recommend to anyone, everything from experimenting with drugs, 138 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: through the violence, through to you know, just nefarious, stupid 139 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: activities and stuff that I think most kids do. But 140 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: I think we just got into it really young, Like 141 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: fourteen was a bit young for that. And then by 142 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: the time I was eighteen, I was kind of done 143 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: and I've kind of exhausted all of the craziness. And 144 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: it was actually my dad who started handing me biographies 145 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: and autobiographies. So my dad was worried that I didn't 146 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: like reading, and so was my mom. I really hated 147 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: reading fictions. I hated reading fictions, so I don't think 148 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: I read a book until I was fourteen. My dad 149 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: started to give me biographies and autobiographies, and I read 150 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: Malcolm X, I read Mike Luther King. I also read 151 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: David Beckham and Dwaine the Rock Johnson because I was 152 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: a big wrestling in soccer fan growing up, and so 153 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: I was reading these really diverse biographies and autobiographies and 154 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: I was thinking, Wow, these people have all done something 155 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: phenomenal with their life. And that's where I started to 156 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: get fascinated by development and personal growth without knowing what 157 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: that was. So two questions. One is when you were 158 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: going through kind of this phase after fourteen, of being 159 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: more rebellious, of just experimenting, what was it inside of 160 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: you that was driving you to do this? And do 161 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: you think at that point in your life you had 162 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: a sense of who you were, what you wanted to be. Yeah. Yeah, 163 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: there was a certain self awareness at the time that 164 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: I could hear as a little voice in my head 165 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: of my heart that was like, you don't want to 166 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: do that, You're not good at that, do this, and 167 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: it was actually healthy. So my parents wanted me to 168 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: do medicine or science or you know, law or engineering, 169 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: and for me, those things scared me. I was like, 170 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: I'm not really interested in those things. And I could 171 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: have that voice inside of me that was like, do art, 172 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: do philosophy, do economics, do design? Like those are the 173 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: things I gravitated towards. And it was almost like I 174 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: started to listen to that voice and I started to 175 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: not ignore that voice because it was so strong, and 176 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: I almost had this rejection towards anything else that wasn't that. 177 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: At the same time, I think there was a me 178 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: being naive. There was a bit of wanting to fit in. 179 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: There was wanting validation, wanting to be cool, wanting to 180 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: be liked, and then that part of me was seeking 181 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: the wrong activities or the bad circles. So it's like 182 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 1: this weird juxtaposition of your self awareness, which is guiding 183 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: you in the right direction, but then your low self esteem, 184 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: which is guiding you in the wrong direction. And so 185 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: you've got these two things pulling on you and you 186 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: obviously don't know this as a sixteen year old. I 187 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: can only say this in hindsight, but at the time, 188 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: I just thought, yeah, I fit in here. I'm trying 189 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: to look cool here. I think people will like me 190 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:38,839 Speaker 1: if I'm this way. And then it's like, but wait 191 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: a minute. I don't want to be forced to do 192 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: things I don't care about. So that's I was grappling 193 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: with that. Absolutely I'm interested. You know, as we move 194 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: forward in your life, you ended up going to school 195 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: to university thinking you were going to work in whether 196 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: it's financial services or consulting, and then kind of by happenstance, 197 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: you were introduced to the work of monks and ultimately decided, 198 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: after you know, three summers visiting the ashram, to become 199 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: a monk for three years. How hard was that decision 200 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: when you just had talked about during your rebellious years, 201 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: at least a part of you was driven by kind 202 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: of the need for validation. I would say it wasn't 203 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: actially a popular decision to become a monk, Like, it 204 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: wasn't something that was familiar to other people. So how 205 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: were you able to kind of withstand called the pressure 206 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: from others to do what was expected of you, Yeah, 207 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: I think we're always living two lives. One is the 208 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: life you want and the other is the life you 209 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:46,319 Speaker 1: think others one you to live, and we get stuck 210 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: in between those two lives, and often we feel like 211 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: we're living too far off the edge of what other 212 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: people want us to live, and often we feel like 213 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: we're living too close to the version we want to live. 214 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: And that dance is really fascinating as life goes on. 215 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: And what I found at the time was I was 216 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: being drawn closer and closer and closer to my own values, 217 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: and I was being drawn closer and closer and closer 218 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: to what was important to me. So at that time, 219 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: if you asked me what I thought I was going 220 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: to be, I would have said something like, I'm going 221 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: to be a rapper, right. I love spoken word, I 222 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: love writing lyrics. I loved music. I played the drum kid, 223 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 1: I played the piano growing up. I can't play anything anymore. 224 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: And I was highly into music, and I was like, 225 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: I want a career in music. That's what I probably 226 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: would have said. And then as time moved on, I 227 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: would have moved away to being Okay, let's be more realistic. Jay, 228 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: you can't do that. That's not real for an Indian 229 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 1: kid growing up in London. Let's be more realistic. And 230 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: I was like, well, maybe I want to be an 231 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: art designer or an art manager at a magazine because 232 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: I loved art, love design. And then it's like, oh no, no, Jay, 233 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: be more realistic. That's not really a career path because 234 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: everyone and your everyone who you're surrounded by is doing 235 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: far more serious and real careers than that. Okay, let's 236 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: go and get a business degree. Right. It's like you 237 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: literally go from this is the truth of what I 238 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: want to let me water it down a bit, and 239 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: then to let me completely water it down. So I 240 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: remember telling my art teacher, who I was really good 241 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: friends with that at college, telling him I'm turning down 242 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: my offers to go to like art school, which is 243 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: what I thought I wanted to do, to go and 244 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: do a management science degree, you know, at Cass Business School. 245 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: And you know, he was joking around, it's like, you're 246 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: such a sellout, Like I was like, I am, I'm 247 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: a sellout. That's terrible. And that's kind of where round 248 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: it up. And it's really fascinating that I went there 249 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: because I was like, this is the safe thing to do, 250 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: and then I do the least safe thing in the 251 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 1: world by becoming a monk. And so it's really fascinating 252 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: how I went on that end of the spectrum and 253 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: then I want to go back. So I think what 254 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: happened is there's only so long you can stay away 255 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 1: from your true calling. And you can push it down, 256 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: you can ignore it, you can suppress it as much 257 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,839 Speaker 1: as you like, but it's going to keep showing up 258 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: in really uncomfortable ways, and it will start quiet, but 259 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: it will get louder. And for me, it got really 260 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: loud at twenty one when I thought to myself, which 261 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: life do I want to live? Do I want to 262 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: live a life of chasing success or do I want 263 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: to live a life of service? And I would say 264 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: that that decision at twenty one became easy because of 265 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: the three years of experience before. And I think people 266 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: look at that it's like, that's a big change, But 267 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: that big change was easy because there were lots of 268 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: small experiences that led up to it. And so every summer, 269 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: like you rightly said, I'd go to live with the monks, 270 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: and that many experiment every summer made me confident that 271 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 1: if I did this long term that I would enjoy it, 272 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: and I think people think, oh, no, you just change 273 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: your life. It's like, no, I didn't, so and you're right. 274 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: I'm glad you raised this because a lot of people 275 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: say to me today, they're like, Jay, you really like 276 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: use this monk thing as part of your story. And 277 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, trust me, becoming a monk is not a story. 278 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: Like when you're twenty one, becoming a monk was the 279 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: least cool thing I could possibly to my friends. And 280 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: this is honest, Just my guy friends thought I was gay, 281 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: Like literally, that's the response I got. That's how far 282 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: behind things were, like you're gay, right, Like that's I'm like, 283 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: how is this? Like how is that even connected to? 284 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 1: But that's what they thought. Girls didn't want to talk 285 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: to me anymore because they thought they weren't allowed to 286 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: talk to me. And what was happening in my path 287 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: And then my family thought that I'd wasted my parents 288 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: investment in me and my education. Yeah, and so everyone's saying, 289 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: you've committed career suicide. You're never going to get a 290 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: job again, and you're ruining your parents' life, and it's 291 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: just so interesting again just thinking about your own development 292 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: and your own awareness that you were able to get 293 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: to a place where despite all of that, you know 294 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: people saying, oh, you must be gay, or you can't 295 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: see women, Oh it's career suicide, that somehow you had 296 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: gotten to this point in your life where you felt 297 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: enough connection to your values or what you deem to 298 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: be your calling that you were willing to do that. 299 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: Because I would say that is very difficult at any 300 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: stage of life, but it's exceptionally difficult as a twenty 301 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: one year old when there is so much social pressure. Yeah, 302 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: and I give all the credit to my monk mentors 303 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: and teachers and guides, because it's not I didn't have 304 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: that resilience, but they'd given me an experience of something, 305 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: and I believe that that experience was more powerful than 306 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: my feelings or what I was hearing. And that's why 307 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: I think we try and make decisions in our head. Now, 308 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: we try and figure everything out in our head, and 309 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: we're like, if I can figure this out in my mind, 310 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: then I'll figure out in life. And it's like, no, 311 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: go and have a real life experience. Go and do 312 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: the thing for a short amount of time, and then 313 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: you'll know what to do, And so I think you 314 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: can only spend that much time in your head figuring 315 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: out personality tests and conversations and questions and reflecting and introspecting, 316 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: and after a while, she's got to go do the thing. 317 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: And if I never went and spent those summers living 318 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: as a monk, I would never have wanted to be one, 319 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: because I would know what it feels like. Totally interested 320 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: for you to talk in a second about when you 321 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: went to become a monk, the work you did, and 322 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: how you knew that you enjoyed that work, because what 323 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: I've even realized, right after selling a business in the 324 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: last few years and thinking about what's next, I always 325 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: will intellectualize. How do I know if I am enjoying 326 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: the things that I'm doing? Do I love this work? 327 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: Am I passionate about it? And the issue is the 328 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: more that I overthink am I passionate about this thing? 329 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: The less I feel passionate about it because I'm intellectualizing 330 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: the experience. So tell me, you know, what was it 331 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: like to be on the ashram for three years? And 332 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: how did you know at least some part of that 333 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: work was truly what you're calling was, Yeah, so there's 334 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: two parts to any work we do. There's the process 335 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: and there's the result. And loving the work you do 336 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: means you love the process and you accept the result. 337 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: Whereas the way we've been trained in modern society is 338 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: all that matters is the result. If the result is good, 339 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: then you must love your job. If you see someone 340 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: win an oscar, they must love their job. If you 341 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: see someone make lots of money and sell their company, 342 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: they must be happy. So we define someone's happiness based 343 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: on how the result is, whereas all ancient wisdom would 344 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: suggest is happiness is based on how much you enjoy 345 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,479 Speaker 1: the process. And the process is as enjoyable as you 346 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: believe it's aligned with your values and what you care about. 347 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: And so at the time, my goal of becoming a 348 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: monk was simple. I wanted to learn to master my mind, 349 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: my ego, my envy, my jealousy, my comparison, and my illusion. 350 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: And I wanted to serve. I wanted to improve the 351 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,679 Speaker 1: lives of other people. I wanted my life to make 352 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: a difference in other people's lives. So I knew that 353 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: as long as I was doing work in those two areas, 354 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: no matter what activity you do you'd be happy. And 355 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: I think that's another challenge we do. We get locked 356 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: up in the activity. Do I like being an interviewer? 357 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: Do I like being a writer? Do I like being 358 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: a podcaster? And if you ask me, I'm like, I 359 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: would use any tool possible to master my mind and 360 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: improve the lives of other people. I'm not attached to 361 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: what medium or furum. I only use social media because 362 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: it was the last option. It was the last thing 363 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: I wanted to use, but there was no other option 364 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: that I had because no one else would give me 365 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: a chance. So I'm not attached the medium or the role. 366 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: It's like, you're focused on what do you want to 367 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: bring to the world and what intention are you bringing in? 368 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,360 Speaker 1: So to me, it's about figuring out what you're truly 369 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: trying to create for yourself. And so during my time 370 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: as a monk, I was waking up at four am. 371 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: We were meditating for four to eight hours a day. 372 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: You're sleeping on the floor, you don't have a bed, 373 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: All your possessions fit inside a gym locker and you 374 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: do that every day. Do I enjoy that? No? Am 375 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: I passionate about that? No? But I believe it's going 376 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: to help me master my mind. Okay, I'm in I 377 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: can do that. Right. Every day we were out in 378 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: the sun. It's one hundred and ten fahrenheit, right, it's hot. 379 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: You're out there laying bricks, out there doing agricultural work 380 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: on the farm. Do I enjoy that? No? Do I 381 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: really love that? No? But do I believe that that 382 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: it positively improves the lives of other people that we're serving? Yes, 383 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: okay it fits. And so I enjoyed the process because 384 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: I trust the process is giving me what I need. 385 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: But I don't have to enjoy that direct activity, right, 386 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: because that's pleasure. Well, I feel like that's such an 387 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: important nuance, right, because you talk about enjoying the process, 388 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: and if someone here's what you're saying, like, No, I 389 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: didn't enjoy laying bricks, I didn't enjoy agriculture, they'd be like, 390 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 1: but isn't that the process? And I think the distinction 391 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: you make is their activities that sit within this process. 392 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: It's not necessarily about enjoying those, It's about how do 393 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: these serve ultimately what you're trying to accomplish, the values 394 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: you're trying to live out correct and that, Yeah, I 395 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,719 Speaker 1: love that you're making that distinction, and maybe I can 396 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 1: articulate it better. I didn't love the activity, but I 397 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: loved what was happening to my intention while I did 398 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: the activity. Yeah, and that's what you're falling in love with. 399 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: And I get that that's a really like meta theorial idea. 400 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: But it's like you are looking at that going I 401 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: do this because I know what's being built right now 402 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: while I do this. That's loving the process. I think 403 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: what Jay is saying here is so important. If you 404 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: have a clear sense of your own values and you're 405 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 1: able to see how the work that you do serves 406 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: those values, it can feel easier to embrace this sometimes 407 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: mundane or tedious or completely unenjoyable aspects of your job. 408 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: Sometimes taking a second to step back and remind yourself 409 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: of your intentions and why you're doing the job that 410 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: you're doing can have a really powerful effect on your 411 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: willingness to push through the worst aspects of it. We're 412 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: going to take a quick break here, but when we 413 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: come back, Jay gets into why he decided to leave 414 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: the ashram and how he navigated feeling behind professionally from 415 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: his peers to ultimately finding success. This episode of Imposters 416 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: is sponsored by Sakara. Feeling great starts with what's on 417 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: your plate, which is why Sakara has simplified healthy, balanced dining. 418 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: Sakara is a wellness company anchored in food as medicine 419 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: on a mission to nourish your body through the power 420 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: of plants. 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Why did you 430 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 1: leave and what was the response when you left? Yeah, 431 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: so lots of reasons why I left. I was really 432 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: experimenting with my health. I was experimenting with longer meditations, 433 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: longer fasting. I was really pushing the limits of how 434 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: far meditation could go to replace sleep, how far meditation 435 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: could go to replace physical energy? And I really took 436 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 1: my body to lens that broke my body practically, and 437 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,439 Speaker 1: that wasn't a fun feeling at all. Ended up in 438 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: the hospital, you know. I talked about this in the book. 439 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: Of Course. I was in bed for like fourteen hours 440 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: a day for plenty of time. It was it was 441 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: really tough, and it was all my own doing. It 442 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: was all my own experimentation. That was part of it. 443 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: But really that was what was happening outside, yeah, And 444 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: what was happening inside was as you are practicing being 445 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 1: a monk, you get more self awareness and you get 446 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: more introspection. And I started to realize that my desires 447 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: were not aligned with the desires of long term monks. 448 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,479 Speaker 1: So I would sit and talk to monks who'd been 449 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: there for ten, twenty thirty years, and I'd listened to 450 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: them and I'd be like, do I want to live 451 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: like that? And the answer was no, what were their 452 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: desires versus your? Their desires were complete surrender, complete service, 453 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 1: no personal creativity or personal expression. And for me, I 454 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 1: was like, but I want to share what I'm learning 455 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: in this way and I can see the link between 456 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: this scripture and this movie, and this song lyric reminds 457 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: me of this verse and the Vaders. Like to me, 458 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm a kid growing up in London 459 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 1: who loves music, loves movies, loves life, and I'm seeing 460 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: all the correlations and connections and I'm saying I want 461 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 1: to make those connections for people because there maybe people 462 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: can live these ideas in their life. And so I 463 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,640 Speaker 1: always had that where I wanted to make wisdom more practical, 464 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: accessible and relevant because I saw its power and I 465 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: felt cool to do that. And it was as much 466 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: a realization that I wanted to do that as I 467 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: wasn't a monk. And that's hard because you know, you 468 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 1: feel married for three years literally and then you feel 469 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: like you're getting a divorce. And that's actually how it 470 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: felt for me. I felt like I was divorcing the 471 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: love of my life. It felt like a breakup. And 472 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: it was really tough leaving because it almost felt like 473 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: I went back to all that noise where everyone was right, 474 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: you're not going to get a job, how are you 475 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: going to fit in? Now you've lost all your friends 476 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: and now you've gone back to a world where your 477 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: friends are like twenty five, twenty six years old. They're 478 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: you know, in relationships, they're potentially buying their first home 479 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: or like you know, moving into a fancy apartment, or 480 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: they're now promoted to their next position. They're doing well 481 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: for themselves and you're thinking, oh, I am behind. And 482 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 1: so that's how I felt when I got back. I'm behind, 483 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: I'm lost. And I didn't think I made a bad decision. 484 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 1: I just I was like, how do I catch up now? 485 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 1: And so how did you catch up? How did you 486 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: work yourself out of I would say a very rational 487 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,439 Speaker 1: thought of I've almost been stuck in time. Everything's accelerated. 488 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: How do I accelerate? Yeah? I didn't know who the 489 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 1: Prime Minister of England was. I didn't know who won 490 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: the World Cup, like I didn't know. I had no idea, 491 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: and so I was truly behind. I spent nine months 492 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,880 Speaker 1: when I left. Well, the first month I was talking 493 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: about the first month was my worst month, where all 494 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,239 Speaker 1: I did was each chocolate, listen to music, catch up 495 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 1: on all the TV. I remember watching every episode of 496 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: How I Met Your Mother. I went and found a 497 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 1: list on IMDb called Movies to Watch Before You Die, 498 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: and I watched every movie on that list, like I 499 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:18,679 Speaker 1: literally went into full like lazy, yeah, the pendulum, just say. 500 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: I wasn't waking up early, none of that. And then 501 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, this is not sustainable. So for 502 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: those that time, I started going. I started dressing up, 503 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: going to my local library, turning up reading books. I 504 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: was reading scriptural books, monk books again, and then reading 505 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: business books to try and figure out what I had 506 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: missed out on in life. I was dressing up as 507 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: if I was going to work. But if you asked 508 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,679 Speaker 1: me what helped me catch up, it was when I 509 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: started working, when I finally got a job after forty rejections, 510 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: When I finally got a job and I met people 511 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: and they were twenty one and I was twenty six. Now, 512 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: by the time I started my first job, I was 513 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 1: twenty six years old, and I realized that I actually 514 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: had the greatest advantage, which was I had mass of 515 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 1: self awareness. I knew what my strengths were, I knew 516 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: what my weaknesses were, I knew what I had to offer, 517 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: and I knew what I wanted to do. And I 518 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,360 Speaker 1: was just like, I just took the biggest risk potentially 519 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 1: one of the biggest career risks in life by becoming 520 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: a monk. I shouldn't be scared of anything anymore. Like 521 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: that was the scariest decision that I made at a 522 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: time when things were more vulnerable. I shouldn't be scared 523 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: of anything, and so I became fearless, and so that 524 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: fearlessness led to me making big scary decisions in a 525 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 1: big scary organization, which paid off because I now wasn't 526 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: ready to follow what everyone else was being told to do. 527 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: And everyone else who was twenty one who was still 528 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: following the rules from college and university, they felt, or 529 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: if we need to follow the rules, that's what we're 530 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: being told to do. And my thing was, well, no, 531 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: I'm not going to follow that rule because I think 532 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: I'll do a better job this way. And thankfully that 533 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: paid off. Now I had people in the company, senior people, 534 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: some of them were my biggest champions, who I love 535 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: and I'm so grateful to, and some of them were 536 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 1: massively intimidated, even though they probably made twenty x what 537 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: I made at the time, but they were intimidated, and 538 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: they were trying to control and trying to manipulate, so 539 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: it was tough living that, but I'm really grateful that 540 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: I did. And so, if I remember correctly, you were 541 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: both working within Accenture, but then you were asked at 542 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: some point to give a talk on mindfulness to a 543 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: thousand people within the company. Then he started traveling around 544 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: the company, right, Yeah, So this credit goes to a 545 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: lady named Jilly Bryant. She's left Extension now, but she 546 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: was the head of all the new Hires in London, 547 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: so about a thousand of us. And she noticed that 548 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: on my fun fact about me, I'd said that I 549 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: lived as a monk and I meditated and that I 550 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: used to teach meditation and at the time Accenture was 551 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: taking and they are taking mental health very seriously. And 552 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: so she reached out to me and she said, Jay, 553 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: we have this big event coming up Betwicken and Rugby Stadium. 554 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 1: Would you mind talking about social media, which is what 555 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: I was doing at work, and talk about mindfulness and 556 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: meditation on stage and potentially even leader meditation. Now, at 557 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: the time, I had no brand, no social media, no 558 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: one knew my name. I was asked to come on 559 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: the stage in between Well Greenwood, who was a Rugby 560 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: World Cup winner with the England national team and the 561 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: CEO of the company in the UK. So I'm already 562 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: having massive imposter syndrome because I'm going this guy won 563 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: a World Cup for the country. This person's the CEO 564 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 1: of the company, Like, what am I going to say? 565 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: And these are a thousand people who are my peers, 566 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: who have no respect for me, and there's no authority here. 567 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: And that is a beautiful position to be in because 568 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: you start realizing that you're not living off of influence, 569 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: so you're not living off of a position. You live 570 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: off of who you are and how you hold yourself. 571 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: And so I went up on stage. I was nervous 572 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: till the point I went on and I led a meditation, 573 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: and the feedback I got was they'd never seen a 574 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: group of a thousand people hold silence for that long. 575 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: And it was a really like reassuring, comforting feeling like 576 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: it wasn't like yes, we did it, it it was more like, Wow, 577 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: this stuff works in the real world. People care, and 578 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: so yes. Then I got invited across the company to 579 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: teach mindfulness and meditation, set up mindfulness mondays, mindfulness meditations 580 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: before meetings. I got really involved in the I was 581 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: so grateful to Accentia for championing a personal skill set 582 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: in a big professional organization with five hundred thousand people. 583 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: It's interesting because it sounds like something that helped your 584 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: imposter syndrome in that moment was kind of the internal 585 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: validation you had after you saw this entire group of 586 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: people sit in silence. You're told that this as long 587 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: as they'd ever sat in silence, like it was reassuring 588 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: to you that the work that you were doing could 589 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,239 Speaker 1: be really meaningful. I'm also sure that this wasn't the 590 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: only time you've experienced imposter syndrome in your life, and 591 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: given the name of the show, given so many people experiences, 592 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: I'm interested how you think about navigating imposter syndrome. And 593 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: I'll even say, from my perspective right now, like I 594 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: feel massive imposter syndrome hosting a podcast you as a guest, 595 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: where I'm just like, how do I host a podcast 596 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: talking about vulnerability and challenges in people's lives and being 597 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: a sounding board for them when the seat The person 598 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: in the seat across from me is someone who literally 599 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: spent three years as a monk and has done so 600 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: much more work to truly understand people how do I 601 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: do it? And so I can just imagine how many 602 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: people experience in post SyncE room in their life. Well, 603 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: first of all, that's very kind of you, and I 604 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: don't think of it that way at all. I think 605 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: every question you've asked me has been so heartfelt, has 606 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: been so sincere, so genuine. You know everything that you've 607 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: shared with me today, even before today, I already knew 608 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: I was going to love you before today, like because 609 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: all the interactions we had on Twitter and you you think, like, 610 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: how can you do that on Twitter? But you can 611 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: when you're as genuine and sincere as you are. So 612 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: I was excited to be here. I'm grateful to be here. Honestly, 613 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: I would say that I don't think you ever stopped 614 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: feeling imposter syndrome. If you're growing, if you're growing, if 615 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: you'll learn learning, you will always feel imposter syndrome because 616 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: what imposter syndrome really is is a sign that you 617 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: still have a skill to learn or an experience to have. 618 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: So I still feel it on a daily, weekly, monthly, 619 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: yearly basis, and I don't ever want to stop feeling 620 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: it because it shows me that I need to grow. 621 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: And I need to learn. I connected to a beautiful 622 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: book called Flow, and Flow talks about how to experience 623 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: a state of flow. Which musicians experience, which artists experience, 624 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: which singers experience, is when your challenge meets your skills. 625 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: But what most of us experience on a daily basis 626 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: is our challenge is above our skills, which means we 627 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: get scared, we get threatened, we get confused, we feel lost. 628 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: All what we experience is the opposite, where your skills 629 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: are above your challenge. Then you foreboard, you feel tired, 630 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: you're lethargic, you feel complacent. So really, what imposter syndrome 631 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: is saying is that your skills are not as high 632 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: as your challenge. But you can fill that gap if 633 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: you truly deeply want to. You can make that leap 634 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: if you want to. And so, now when I feel 635 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: a sense of imposter syndrome, I ask myself what skill 636 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: is being highlighted to me that I don't have. It's 637 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: not a feeling, it's not an emotion, it's a skill. 638 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: Like I'll give an example. If I'm sitting around a 639 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: table of people that I feel are more qualified than 640 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: me in a certain area. Let's say I'm sitting with 641 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: a group of people and they're all amazingly deep into 642 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: real estate, right, that's their thing. I'm going to feel 643 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: like an impostive because I'm not that deep into real estate. 644 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: And then I have to ask myself, so, what skill 645 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: do I now have? Okay, real estate investing? Do I 646 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: want that skill? Or am I happy being in this space? 647 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: For example? And so the question isn't not only what 648 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: skill don't you have? What do you want that skill? 649 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: Because often you can get pursuing a skill just impress 650 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: people totally. And so I think that's what I would 651 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: encourage people to do with imposter syndrome is take it 652 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: away from this feeling of I'm not good enough, I'm 653 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: not smart enough, I'm not this enough. Yeah, you're not 654 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: smart enough. Figure out what you need to get smart at, right, 655 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: And that's how I see. I'm like, Okay, I'm I'm 656 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: not qualified to this? Do I want to be qualified? Totally? 657 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: I think in a lot of ways, what you're doing 658 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: is you're putting control back in the hands of the 659 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: person yourselves, right. So it's all about reframing it as 660 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: this is actually a great thing, because you're pushing yourself 661 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: into an area of discomfort where you now have the choice. 662 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: There's a gap between your skill and the challenge that 663 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: you're facing, and you have that choice of if you 664 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: want to close that gap, and by the way, you 665 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: can make the choice not to close that gap if 666 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: you don't want to do it exactly exactly. So, when 667 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: I first started my career and I was mainly known 668 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: for creating video content which were like four minutes. We 669 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: then built the podcast. I felt like an imposter when 670 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: I launched the podcast. Now we've done the podcast for 671 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: three years and it's very natural. And then and we 672 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: launched the book, it was like that was scary, And 673 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: then now we're doing a bookie and that doesn't feel scary. 674 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: So every time you make a new leap, you'll feel 675 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: imposter syndrome. But that's great because that means you're growing. 676 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: That means you're trying something new. I would never feel 677 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: imposter syndrome if I never tried anything new, and that 678 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: means I would live a boring same life and I 679 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: don't want that. Yeah, thinking about your experience within Accenture, 680 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: it feels like this combination of just amazing kind of 681 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: harnessing of an opportunity you were given to use the 682 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: experience you had in the Ashram to spread kind of 683 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: what you learned throughout the company will also kind of 684 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,399 Speaker 1: being on the forefront of social media. You know, while 685 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: you say you were a little bit late to it 686 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 1: because you didn't have a Facebook until whatever age, you 687 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 1: still were early. Now, in retrospect within what's happened with 688 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: social when you reflect on kind of almost like these 689 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: two amazing kind of skills you were able to build 690 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: up that informed where you are in your career now, 691 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: how much do you think about your own experience as 692 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: skill and hard work and grit and how much do 693 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: you think of it as luck? And how do you 694 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: think about that relationship broadly in career? I would say that, 695 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: and I'm going to be honest because I think that's 696 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: the only way to do it. I would say that 697 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: my greatest skill is knowing that I can learn something 698 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,320 Speaker 1: if I want to, and that if I apply myself 699 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: to it and I really deeply care about it, that 700 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: I will find a way to get really good at it. 701 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: And I don't think you can separate that from impact, 702 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: because impact means there's a beautiful quote by Bruce Lee 703 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: where he said that I'm not scared of the person 704 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: that has practiced ten thousand kicks one time each. I'm 705 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: scared of the person who's practiced one kick ten thousand times. 706 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 1: And that's this which that we have to make, is 707 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: that are we willing to practice this one kick, this 708 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: one move ten thousand times, or whatever it may be, 709 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 1: And that, to me is the difference maker. So I 710 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 1: would say that there's a lot of strategy because now 711 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 1: it all makes sense, like social media, meditation, Oh that fits. 712 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: It didn't make sense when I was collecting those skills, 713 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: and so, as Steve Job says, you can only connect 714 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: the dots looking backwards, you can't moving forwards. To me, 715 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: when I was collecting it, I was just like, I 716 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: love people and I love connecting with lots of people, 717 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: so social media would be useful. Maybe that's literally all 718 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: I had is at all. It wasn't like, oh, I'm 719 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 1: going to learn this, then I'm going to learn this, 720 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: and then we're gonna it wasn't that thought through. And 721 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: at the same time, when I became a monk, it 722 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: wasn't like, oh, one day I'm going to write a 723 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: book about being It wasn't that it was Hey, I 724 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: think this is what my calling is. So it was 725 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: a naive, innocent following of what I'm being called to 726 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: do at the time. Then matched with what do we 727 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: do with this now that we have with as a 728 00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: skill and taking a risk based on that. So I 729 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 1: would say it's it's I don't know what you call that, 730 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: whether it's discipline. Yeah, it feels like the combination of 731 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: like intuition and action when the opportunity. That's better than 732 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: what I was about to say, So I'd take that 733 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: intuition action. Yeah, I just came up with this intuition accident. 734 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: And I would add a massive sense of being open 735 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: to risk again again and again, and and then I 736 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,359 Speaker 1: would say it's brilliant mentorship and guidance. So I give 737 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: all the credit to the people I met. If I 738 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: didn't meet really critical people at different times and I 739 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,359 Speaker 1: didn't form a relationship with them and they didn't invest 740 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: in me and I didn't invest in them, that was 741 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,399 Speaker 1: everything like for me, especially, so that you could say 742 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,919 Speaker 1: was luck. That was the luck. The luck was that 743 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: these people came into my life and we clicked at 744 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: really specific times, and that was the luck. Well, I 745 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: would say the skill there was. You know, my intuition 746 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 1: is that when you were building these relationships, it wasn't 747 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: doing so in a way where you were getting something 748 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 1: out of it. You were getting into these relationships because 749 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: you love the people that they were and you are 750 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: to just be closer to them. I'm still friends with 751 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 1: every one of those people, yeah, like deeply messages them 752 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,759 Speaker 1: all the time, and they're still involved in my life 753 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: in so many ways, and I all the credit goes 754 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: to them. I'd say any careers socise, I'd give it 755 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: to them because it's not that they told me what 756 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: to do or how to do it, or invested money. 757 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,759 Speaker 1: It wasn't those kind of things. It was people who 758 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 1: just change the way you thought by planting simple seeds 759 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,799 Speaker 1: and planting simple ideas at different times in my life. 760 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: So yeah, I would say there's a mix of luck, strategy, intuition, action, 761 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 1: But ultimately I think it comes down to three things. Passion, strengths, 762 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: and service. That's ultimately what it comes down to. It's 763 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 1: the passion to learn anything and everything, developing an actual 764 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: skill in the subject matter you want to do, and 765 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 1: then wanting to serve through it, which is where the 766 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: fulfillment comes from and so to me, I'd narrow it 767 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: down to those three things. So something you talk about 768 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: in your journey as being one of the more stressful 769 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: points in your life is post accenture. You had decided 770 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: that you wanted to kind of create these videos. You 771 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: ended up creating them. I believe in London at a 772 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 1: time and day where there's no streets on the road. 773 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 1: So it was perfect moment you try to pitch all 774 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,360 Speaker 1: these media executives, I'm being able to do it. Ultimately, 775 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: you were given an opportunity with Huffington Post and the 776 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: videos absolutely crushed it upon publishing. I think the first week, 777 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 1: like the first video did a million views, then it 778 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: was a million and twenty four hours. But then you 779 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,720 Speaker 1: talk about it a point in the journey of Huffington 780 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 1: Post where you were working there. It was growing great, 781 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 1: but you were within four months of not having money 782 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,399 Speaker 1: to live. Talk about just that period in your life 783 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,800 Speaker 1: and how you worked through it. Yeah, and even getting 784 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,280 Speaker 1: everything you just described is just such a tough time 785 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: because I was getting I got married, changed job three times, 786 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 1: moved country all in the same year. And that was 787 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: that year that you just described, And so that was 788 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 1: a fully intense year. What year was that? That was 789 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, Yeah, twenty sixteen, And this time that you're 790 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 1: talking about was coming up to twenty seventeen when my 791 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: work at huffing a Post ended. Arianna Huffington had led 792 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 1: to start Thrive Global, who's She's still a dear friend 793 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: and mentor and wonderful human being, but my work there 794 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 1: was ending. She'd left, she'd moved on. My position kind 795 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,399 Speaker 1: of wasn't there anymore. And I was four months away 796 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,720 Speaker 1: from being broke and thirty days away from my visa 797 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: to America being taken away because it was attached to 798 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: my work visa, and so not only did I have 799 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 1: to figure out how to sort my visa out, I 800 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 1: had to figure out how to pay for more than 801 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 1: renting groceries beyond four months. And I always used to 802 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 1: have my mentor, Thomas Power, one of them, would always 803 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,359 Speaker 1: say to me, you only discover your potential when you're 804 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: in pain. He'd always keep repeating that, and I'd be like, nah, 805 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,800 Speaker 1: I'm proactive, like a you're whatever, Like I'm one of 806 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: the hardest working people out whatever, And then I was 807 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: put into pain, like that was real pain, And I 808 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,439 Speaker 1: thought Okay, I'm going to discover my potential in the pain. Okay, 809 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 1: I'm going to discover my potential in the pain. The 810 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,160 Speaker 1: next year, after learning that I only had four months 811 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: left in the bank for rent and groceries, I got 812 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: up and I emailed, DM tweeted, and messaged every person 813 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: that I had ever met, and said, I will edit videos, 814 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 1: I will record videos, I will film videos. I will 815 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: do anything you possibly need me to do. At this time, 816 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: me and Paul, who's sitting right there, we were doing 817 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 1: corporate videos for other clients. Paul, do you remember that 818 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 1: office we went in? We did all these question videos, 819 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 1: and so me and Paul went into this corporate company. 820 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 1: I'm producing corporate training videos. That's not what I want 821 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:48,760 Speaker 1: to do. That's not my passion, that's not my life, 822 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,800 Speaker 1: but it was what I needed to do to survive. 823 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,320 Speaker 1: You didn't have an option. I didn't have an option. 824 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: So that year, the year when I thought I was 825 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,440 Speaker 1: going to struggle to survive, I made more money in 826 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,880 Speaker 1: that year then in my whole career. REA combined up 827 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,600 Speaker 1: until that point because I was so stressed that I 828 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 1: wasn't going to be able to pay my bills. But 829 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 1: that's because I was living under that pressure and that fear. 830 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: It catapulted me and incentivized me to another level, and 831 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I'd broken my own ceiling and 832 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I had no idea what I 833 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 1: was capable of until that happened. And so I just 834 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: kept stretching every single year. And so for the past 835 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,919 Speaker 1: five years, we've just been stretching the capacity every single year. 836 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: And it blows my mind because I would never have 837 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 1: believed any of it was possible. And it's only been 838 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:36,200 Speaker 1: possible because that pain forced me into an accelerated period 839 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,359 Speaker 1: that I never imagined I would have got into if 840 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,359 Speaker 1: I didn't end up in that pain. So one last 841 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,759 Speaker 1: question I have for you is how do you deal 842 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,880 Speaker 1: with the difficulties of having the brand that you have today? 843 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,479 Speaker 1: And I mean that in two ways. In one way, 844 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 1: when people say Jay has commercialized mindful mindfulness and is 845 00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: making a lot of money off of mindfulness, something that 846 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,279 Speaker 1: generally the focus is in our material things, And the 847 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,800 Speaker 1: second is for your own work, for your own self, 848 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 1: how do you continue to have the mind that you 849 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: want to have while working with let's say, platforms that 850 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:19,239 Speaker 1: are built for serving external validation that is addictive. Yeah, 851 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,759 Speaker 1: so I can honestly say that my intention from the 852 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 1: beginning has always been to purify myself and help serve 853 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 1: the world. I've always wanted to solve the inner conflict 854 00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,359 Speaker 1: and the inner pain and the inner challenges and then 855 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 1: help other people do that. On that path, I realized 856 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:48,200 Speaker 1: that in order to scale, accelerate, and truly provide this 857 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 1: message to as many people as possible for free, you 858 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,600 Speaker 1: had to figure out how that lived as a business. 859 00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 1: Because what I do every day require is we have 860 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,359 Speaker 1: fifty people across the world doing different things right now, 861 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,839 Speaker 1: and I need each and every one of them to 862 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 1: have the impact that we have. And without each and 863 00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,799 Speaker 1: every one of those team members that play such an 864 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,279 Speaker 1: important and vital role, I wouldn't be able to do this. 865 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,400 Speaker 1: And what I got fascinated by is I grew up 866 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,959 Speaker 1: with the belief that money was the root of all evil. 867 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:23,799 Speaker 1: I grew up with that. I also grew up with 868 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,879 Speaker 1: the belief that people who had money did dodgy things 869 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 1: to get there. Because that's the environment and the family 870 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,320 Speaker 1: I grew up in. I had to rewire my whole 871 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: relationship with money. And when I lived as a monk. 872 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: We were trained to recognize that everything in the world 873 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,919 Speaker 1: was simply energy, and that energy can either be used 874 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,960 Speaker 1: for good or used for bad. So all I can 875 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,719 Speaker 1: say is that I'm honestly trying to give the resources 876 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: I have to be used to serve and support not 877 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: only myself and my family, but to serve and support 878 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,120 Speaker 1: tens of people right now on my team that I 879 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,719 Speaker 1: believe are living their purpose and feel very purposeful and 880 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,759 Speaker 1: meaningful coming to the workplace. And then the millions and 881 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,880 Speaker 1: billions of people that are being impacted. And we've always 882 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:13,880 Speaker 1: made a commitment. If you look at our video content, 883 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:19,799 Speaker 1: it's always been free. Our podcast has ads, but the 884 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:24,760 Speaker 1: podcast is free. We have and we're very selective over 885 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,160 Speaker 1: who we work with and who we partner with. And 886 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:31,799 Speaker 1: then you know my recent partnership with CARM where I've 887 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 1: taken on the role of chief Purpose Officer. The annual 888 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,880 Speaker 1: subscription is like forty two dollars a year for the 889 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,399 Speaker 1: whole year. And so my goal has always been having 890 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,439 Speaker 1: lived as a monk where you do things for free 891 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,359 Speaker 1: all the time. It's like my goal has always been 892 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,560 Speaker 1: that my goal was to accelerate the impact and give 893 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: access and Ultimately, I'd say if anyone who does have 894 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: that perception of what I'm doing, they're fully entitled to that. 895 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,839 Speaker 1: I'm so okay with that. I'll take it all day. 896 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,160 Speaker 1: I have nothing to eight on. I appreciate you for 897 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,839 Speaker 1: how you think about the world, and so I let 898 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,279 Speaker 1: people have their opinions and I have my intentions and 899 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,640 Speaker 1: I hold on to those. Second part of your question 900 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 1: was how do I do that for myself? I just 901 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,080 Speaker 1: got back from spending about two weeks in India, and 902 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:18,920 Speaker 1: I was back at the ushram that I lived at, 903 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:21,799 Speaker 1: and I go back there every single year. I didn't 904 00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:23,440 Speaker 1: get to go back the two years of the pandemic, 905 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 1: but every single years since I left, and now my 906 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,759 Speaker 1: wife and I go back every year and we'll be 907 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,400 Speaker 1: there for like two weeks to potentially a month, and 908 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,439 Speaker 1: we'll just live like a monk again. And I love 909 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:40,279 Speaker 1: being back in that environment because they don't care what 910 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,920 Speaker 1: I'm doing, what's been achieved, what hasn't been done, what 911 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,799 Speaker 1: the numbers are. They just don't care. And so I'm 912 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:51,440 Speaker 1: constantly around people who demand more of me than what 913 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: the world does. And so one of my teachers, I 914 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,520 Speaker 1: remember him saying to me he asked me for an update. 915 00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,080 Speaker 1: So I was telling him what I was doing, and 916 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,120 Speaker 1: he said something that has always stayed with me, and 917 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:02,759 Speaker 1: it really like it was. It hit me and it 918 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,839 Speaker 1: almost scared me because it was so much harder. He said, Jay, 919 00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,040 Speaker 1: for all these things that you're doing, I have no 920 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,200 Speaker 1: expectations for this in your life, he said. My only 921 00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:16,120 Speaker 1: expectation is that I simply demand the purity of your heart, 922 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,800 Speaker 1: because that's all I want. And that's why that's an 923 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,120 Speaker 1: travel that was among my my monk teaches her to me, 924 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:29,000 Speaker 1: and that's way harder. Everything else is way easier. And 925 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,480 Speaker 1: so that's kind of what keeps me on track is 926 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,000 Speaker 1: I'm constantly surrounded by people who don't live in this environment, 927 00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 1: who don't value these things, who don't care about them, 928 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 1: who who aren't who who loved me before during and 929 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,880 Speaker 1: will love me after, you know, and and even my wife. 930 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,759 Speaker 1: I think my wife gets a lot of credit for that. 931 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,839 Speaker 1: My wife doesn't care um, you know, she she's just 932 00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:50,840 Speaker 1: that's not her life and it's not who she is. 933 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,759 Speaker 1: And being married to someone that way. I used to 934 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,680 Speaker 1: be upset at my wife for not loving me for 935 00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:00,359 Speaker 1: what I've achieved, and then I realized she actually loves 936 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,440 Speaker 1: me for who I am, and I felt really stupid, 937 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,920 Speaker 1: and I realized that that was so much more special 938 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,840 Speaker 1: to have someone who's been with me through being broke, 939 00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:14,120 Speaker 1: through moving country, through having lost it all, to having 940 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:18,319 Speaker 1: it all, to being in between. And I'd take that 941 00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,799 Speaker 1: history with any day over someone praising me for what 942 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,440 Speaker 1: I've done. J Chatty, thank you so much for joining Imposters. 943 00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:26,360 Speaker 1: This has been awesome. Thank you so much. I'm so 944 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,440 Speaker 1: grateful to you, and I really enjoyed my time with you. 945 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:30,759 Speaker 1: I'm excited to connect a lot more. Absolutely. Yeah, thanks 946 00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:34,920 Speaker 1: so much, thank you, appreciate you, thank you. Thank you 947 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,440 Speaker 1: guys so much for watching this episode. I hope you 948 00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,400 Speaker 1: enjoyed and I'd love to hear from you sharing the comments, 949 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,640 Speaker 1: your favorite part of this episode and also what guests 950 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,680 Speaker 1: you would love to see on Imposters moving forward, And finally, 951 00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,520 Speaker 1: like and subscribe so you get content from this show 952 00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,000 Speaker 1: every single week. I'll see you guys next time.