WEBVTT - Ep. 903: Stranded Whales, Cattle-Killing Wolves, and Maine Cleans Up Its Act 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.080 Welcome to the news show everybody. Today, We've got news 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:11.560 about my unfortunate, regrettable criminal past. Damn removals in Maine, 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:17.120 stranded Wales on the Pacific coast. Anti Buffalo politicians are 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:21.560 generally winning, but they suffered a minor setback. And you've 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:23.960 heard of earn a buck. Well, welcome to earn a 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:28.760 second buck. And you won't believe this one. Wolves eat cows. 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:33.360 But first our news, and to open up our news, 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:36.760 we have a special guest here. The special guest's name 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:45.040 is John Jersek. He is a retired Michigan conservation officer. 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:48.239 Some folks call him game wardens, but in Michigan they 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:50.440 call him conservation officers. And I got to give some 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:56.520 background here. We're going back in time to around my 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:00.320 guess would be ninety three or nineteen ninety four. I 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:05.480 was parked in my truck on Mannisseee National Forest where 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:09.560 Cedar Creek crosses underneath M one twenty, checking mink traps. 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:15.680 In behind me pulls a game ward and a conservation officer. 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.679 He gets out we're talking. He asked me have you 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:28.280 been setting snares? Which alarmed me because I had and 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:30.880 they were illegal in that area, and it wasn't my fault. 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:33.720 I'll explain how it wasn't my fault. I'll explain right now. 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:37.480 There was a game There was a fur buyer named 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:40.920 Abe Salasina, and I would sell some fer to Abe Salacene, 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:43.640 and Abe Salacena would always be pushing snares on you 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:47.600 when the snow got deep. Abe b You know what 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:49.960 guys do in other areas is they sat these snares 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.560 and fur keeps coming in all winter. So it was 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:56.960 my fault, but it was very alarming to me, and 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:01.040 I lied. I lied. This this is all terrible. I'm 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.520 just being upfront about my behavior. I lied, and then 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:09.320 the game warden, the conservation officer goes to my annoyance, 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:14.239 goes through every trap in my truck, checking the tags 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:18.880 you're legally obligated to have a tag on there, checks 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:23.280 them all. We converse. He leaves. Now I have written 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.280 about this, I've talked about it. I told the story 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:29.840 a couple of weeks ago. My good friend from back home, 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:34.960 Ronnie Bain, is talking to a retired conservation officer. The 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.400 retired conservation officer knowing where Ronnie's from. He's from the 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:43.560 same twin Lake ask him, do you know a guy 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:48.400 Steve Ranella who I checked for whatever back in nineteen 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:50.760 ninety four, And I thought to myself, why in the 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:56.359 world is this on this man's mind? Now? Ronnie suggested, 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:02.960 I ask him here he is, thank you for coming 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:05.280 on the show thirty years later. 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:11.440 Well, well, I'm glad we've had this chance to sit 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:13.639 down and talk. And I'll tell you, you know, even though 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.359 it's spent a long time, you're gonna feel a lot 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:18.079 better getting us off your chest. 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:22.720 Okay, I've gotten it off my chest. I just need 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:27.720 to hear from your perspective because at the time I 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:29.960 didn't ask you what you're thinking and what you're doing. 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.280 To walk me through your recollection of this. 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.120 Well, it's interesting that you know how you get caught 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:39.720 with a snapshot in your brain of a spot, you know, 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.800 in an incident or a time. I can see that 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.640 I can picture you know, these eyes a good spy. 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:49.240 You know there was a sand trap there and you 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:51.480 could work trout fish right along that piece of ground. 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:53.520 And you know, we get trapped a little bit too. 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:57.720 Right, everybody, everybody set mink traps. 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:00.680 There right right, real comments spy, this right along a 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.000 busy road. Yeah, so anyways, and you know, I've been there, 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:06.240 of course, dozens and dozens of times in my career 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.640 when I worked around here, and I can't remember, you 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.840 know what. You know, I think we approached this incident 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.320 from two different perspectives. I may have simply just hey, 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.480 here's a guy trapping, right, I'm gonna check them, uh, 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:24.480 and then going through traps and mentioning about snaring. The 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:28.880 bottom line the end to this whole story is I 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:31.719 I was clueless that you had any snares? 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:36.520 How does he know I have snares? Though? 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:39.919 John? Did you know that? 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.320 Did you know that this fur buyer was out there 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.240 pushing young trappers to use snares? 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.640 Did you know that the name? 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:50.880 Oh yeah, I know the name, know who that was? 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:56.280 Didn't know it was being pushed, so to speak. But 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.479 but here here was. And this is probably why I 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.480 threw a and asked the question. Right, that was at 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.800 a time when it was it was growing an interest 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.839 locally sneering and you know, and I knew for sure 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.440 it was going on, but it wasn't at the time 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:16.359 legal It is today, but at the time it wasn't legal. So, 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:19.160 you know, just like any other, you know, game more 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:22.120 not a phishing expedition. I'm going to ask a few 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:23.840 questions and see what he says. 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:28.000 You know, but you started right out with that question. 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:33.160 I don't so I don't know if it was this part. 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:37.400 I don't honestly remember. Did I was was Did I 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.040 have some knowledge that maybe you, as a local guy, 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.880 were doing it? I don't remember that part one. Let 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:46.160 me add this. When I was playing out paperwork when 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.440 I retired back in nineteen you know, remember we had 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:52.640 the old report all poaching complaints, the rough complaints. 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:55.120 I had found one from. 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:59.200 You, and it was the best I can recall again 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.960 is it was Cedar Creek, No, no goes Bear Creek, 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:07.680 Bear Creek, okay, and uh, somebody had come across, or 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:10.960 you had come across maybe untagged traps or something like that. 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:20.000 But I got in huge trouble with this from Abe Salasina. Okay. 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:24.479 I had found where a guy was trapping before season. 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:26.159 Okay. 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:30.880 And even though even though I was, you know, as 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:33.840 innocent as it was, even though I was a violator, 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:38.239 I didn't want anyone else violating, and I thought that 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:43.360 that violation was a bad violation. So I called and 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:48.159 reported a guy for trapping. Before season, some informant told 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:53.520 Abe Salasina. Abe Salasina ripped into me that you would 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:57.320 ever report a trapper for anything, And where do you 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.320 get off and you take that man to man, you 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:04.880 do not call the state? Wow, Okay, well. 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.599 A whole on. That's a good that's a good story 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:13.160 right in among itself, that in the trapper world, things 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.920 do get settled out on the road. You know, if 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:21.080 if people are stealing traps, if they're stealing fur from traps, 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:25.200 if they're trespassing, or even you know, if if one 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:28.600 guy gets on another guy's turf, that that little war 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.680 usually gets settled somewhere out there along the stream bank 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.360 or in the woods or wherever. And of course we 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:39.320 never heard about it. There was a number of local 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:43.840 trappers though, that I got to be pretty decent friends with, 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:45.480 and that you know, they were pretty good. Yeah, I 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:48.160 don't even want to call them informants. They just tended 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.960 to do the right thing and wanted to see things 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:55.000 done right. We're getting about four stories down the road now, 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:59.000 But on that rap complaint, it looked like I can 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:01.920 of remember the the verbiage on it is. I ended 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:05.080 up finding a young kid, you know, a teen or 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.840 something like that, and I had gotten back a hold 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:09.480 of you, and you wondered if I could just handle 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:10.920 it with a warning, which I did. 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.200 Oh, and that's how that n did. 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:17.280 That's probably after I got in trouble with Abe Salsino, 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:18.640 and it. 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:23.000 Could well be. But the yeah, that was the whole deal. 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.920 And then going back to our Cedar Creek contact, I 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.840 don't know, you know, don't I don't recall that I 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:34.080 specifically remembered I was after you or I had solid 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:38.080 information that you were doing it. But the whole thing 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.240 about snares at the time is kind of everybody was 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.640 starting to do it. You know, it was something that 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:47.880 people were doing wasn't legal yet it was so easy. 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:50.480 You could cover a lot of ground, you could trespass easy. 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:53.559 What people were doing. It was even using it along 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:56.680 the thirty one corridor on the highways, like in the fences. 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:59.319 Yea doing stuff like that, And we. 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:01.480 Probably didn't have an there are coyotes at that time 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.880 that we do now, but you know they were growing 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:08.080 in numbers too, and people were working at and you know, 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:12.600 as a trapper, anytime first starts going higher than normal 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:16.840 right man. The incentive to cheap ends up there, whether 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:21.360 it be trespassed another guy's turf, stealing some traps. And 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.600 I know I recovered quite a few stolen traps for 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:27.520 area trappers, you know, either out of the Whitehall Marge 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:29.079 or Muskegan marsh Yep. 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.040 I'll tell you why it always stuck with me. What 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:35.360 I was doing is I was snaring red fox down 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:40.720 in the thickets, right, And when you said that, I 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:45.840 knew you knew, But I thought, why did he not 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:50.360 take it? Why did he not take it? Or why 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:52.560 did he not just steak one out or do some 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.800 kind of stuff to catch me? Right? And then I 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.640 was paranoid and quit for a while. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:05.680 Oh one time, one time on another local trapper. I 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:07.240 won't use a name though, but it was out at 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:11.679 the wastewater. Okay, real, real common wastewater trapper out there. 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:15.079 Oh, can I take a s. Did his first name 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:17.560 start with a B and his last name start with 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:22.520 the F? No? Was it b C? 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:28.280 We should have this conversation. 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:36.480 So anyways, the point was is he had a few 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:38.360 words with me out on the out on the dirt 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:40.160 road in the middle of the wastewater, like you know, 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:41.560 why are you eyes after me? 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:42.080 And all that. 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:45.800 I concluded the conversation by turning around, getting back in 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:49.079 my truck and said, you know, Parenoia is a mighty 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:50.280 powerful tool, isn't it? 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:51.240 And I just drove away. 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:58.120 So, man, all right, My last question for you, John, 0:10:58.160 --> 0:10:59.920 and I appreciate you doing this, My last question for 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.880 you is, since it was a nothing thing and you 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:07.480 didn't get me a ticket and you were just throwing 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:11.000 that out there as a fishing expedition, why did it 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.280 stick in your mind? Because I wasn't like a known 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:15.760 figure at all. I was. I had never been in trouble, 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:16.240 you know. 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:19.800 Right right right, Yeah, let's clarify to the audience. 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:23.320 You weren't anybody that I had on the radar or 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.160 was following around or anything like that, or he had 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:30.040 as best I can recall any specific information, you know, 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:34.200 on you doing anything. So I don't know, why does 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:37.320 it stick in my mind? You got me, you know, 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:39.760 I know I dealt with a number of local trappers 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:41.320 over the years, good and bad. 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:43.640 I don't know some of them. You know, you were 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:44.800 just around for so long. 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:48.280 You sort of got to know these guys, and you know, 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:52.800 it's it's nothing, nothing real specific, nothing evil. 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:54.839 I don't remember again. 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:59.080 I think this was just a chance meeting out out 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:01.360 on the side end one twenty and I thought, hey, 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:03.560 I'll throw a darts, see if the guys got snares, 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:09.400 you know, and you know, as a trapper, finding people 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.360 snares and that sort of thing not an easy task. 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:17.920 And well, yeah, and that's one of the things if 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.080 you talk to people that run a lot of snares, 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:22.640 I don't think they recover them all every year, you know, 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.280 because how do you simply remember if you got out 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.080 a hundred of them, you know, where are they all? 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:29.839 Well, yeah, they were all. 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:33.080 Snaring was also starting to gain in popularity, like in 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:34.960 those uh you know, sort of the edge of the 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.360 skiing and Grand Haven Grand Rapids, those edges like the 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:42.080 fringe urban areas ye you know, you know, places where 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.199 you might have fox and stuff like that down in there. Yeah. 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.719 So there you go, man, I sure appreciate you coming on. 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.319 This is going to add significant color to the story. 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:55.679 It's going to it's a hot tip for game wardens 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:02.559 just to throw out wild stuff, just through a wild accusations, 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:04.760 just to see if someone if it hits, and also 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.760 to induce paranoia and poachers. 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.440 Well, you know, the whole nature of the job is 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:13.439 quite a bit of smoking mirrors. You know, a lot 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.280 of times you're covering a county by yourself or more 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.440 you know, and vast areas. You know, you might be 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.400 an hour to the other side of the area you 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:26.280 cover or more so, Like I say, it's smoking mirrors, 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:30.160 trying to make everybody feel that you're everywhere at once 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.680 twenty four to seven, right, which is impossible. So to 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.120 chum the waters with a little bit of information out there, 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:41.000 you know, and ask some questions. Yeah, never know. 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:42.960 Sometimes you get lucky and they say something. 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:46.720 Well, it worked on me. I'd formed the opinion of 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:48.760 you that you knew all things that you were, like 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.880 you have like godlike omniscience about the woods. So thank 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.160 you very much for coming on, John, I appreciate it. Man, 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:59.200 enjoy it. Enjoy the rest of your retirement, all right, 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.480 thank muchav Oh buddy, take it easy. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:02.040 Thanks John. 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:07.199 Thanks, it's great, Oh, Nate, pull up where it all happened? 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:09.679 Oh yeah, for you people watched on YouTube, here's where 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:10.360 it all went down. 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.160 What other game wardens can we interview that you've ran 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:15.079 into in the past. 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.160 You know, it's a great story. Uh, we were one 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:22.320 time here in Montana. We're hunting ducks and we had 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:24.480 our decoys in the canoe. We weren't in the canoe. 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.200 We were using the canoe to drag our decoys. Opening day, 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.360 I get a ticket for no life jackets. I try 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:34.200 to seventy five dollar ticket. I try to explain, but 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:37.120 we're not in the canoe. He's like, come on. I'm like, 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:41.040 I'm serious, man, it's just we're just using the drag decoys. 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.520 Still a ticket the next year, I'm not kidding you. 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:49.160 A year later, opening day, same boat launch, same canoe, 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.720 full of decoys, different game. Warden pulls in, writes me 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:53.280 a citation. 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:54.239 Wow. 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:58.080 I'm like, but we're not in the canoe. Me and 0:14:58.160 --> 0:14:59.880 the same buddy, seventy five dollars ticket. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.080 Again, I think you would have learned. 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:08.520 But that's not as good of a story. All right, 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:12.080 what's next? Max is right in, Oh, this is more 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:13.680 our news. This is more our news here. 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:19.280 Oh, I'd like to preface this with, uh, well, the 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:22.280 text chain started at four fifty seven am. 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:23.400 He's got a new baby. 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:25.960 Yeah, but it also must have gotten fired up to 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.640 be texting another guy at four fifty seven am. 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:29.640 It's a little bit early. 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:31.640 I feel like I think he's up all night with 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:33.360 that new baby, so he's probably got nothing to do 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:34.680 changing diapers. 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.200 You can think about it, he says. Drake's don't quack 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.600 like a hen, and I'll stand by that till I die. 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:42.600 I said, yeah, the cornell that proved that, but also 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.720 proved that they do quack like a drake. What I'm 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.360 calling a quack is pretty specific. I think ducks make 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.200 a lot of sounds, I said, depending on how discerning 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.200 the ear is. And since in quotes Max, they make 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:56.360 a lot of sounds, you can see how the two 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:57.320 could be conflated. 0:15:57.720 --> 0:15:59.720 Ha ha. But a drake doesn't quack. 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.640 Even Rocky knows that that is not the nickname or 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:08.720 name of his uh new son. But okay, so that's 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.880 just just pumping the tires up here a little bit 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.160 because I'm excited to see what Max came up with. 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:20.280 All right, clearing the air here a little bit. Drake 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:26.000 mallards do not quack, simple as that, and I'll take 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:26.720 that to my grave. 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:27.960 They don't quack. 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.400 Yes, they make a sound out of their mouth, but 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:35.520 it's more of a buzz or a whistle, just not 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:39.320 a quack. I pulled up the same website yawning sever 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:55.720 listening to that is drake whistle. That is a hen quack. 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:58.200 He is splitting hairs a little bit. 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:05.200 Yeah, whistle, just two different things. 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:04.040 Sort of like music. 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:09.680 There is different pitches, and I think in duck calls 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:13.480 there's different pitches as well. A hen mallard can do 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:16.520 a high pitch and a low pitch quack. A drake 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.760 can also do a high pitch whistle and a lower 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.959 pitch whistle. What I think Yanni is getting confused is 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.800 that low end whistle. It's not a pure. 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:28.480 Wheat. 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:33.199 Is just like a little more sharper, a little more crisp. 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:35.080 I'll pull up. 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:36.280 It sounds a lot like a quack. 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:40.159 No, hear him out, hear him out. He's getting his 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:41.320 calls out, ladies and gentlemen. 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:46.480 Drake whistle standard. This is gonna be my high pitched. 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:49.320 M M. 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:52.679 At the end you can almost hear like a t 0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:58.600 and then this can be my low end. 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:00.480 MP. 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:17.240 Nowhere near a quack. Simple as that. I am so 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:22.080 confident in my opinion. I'm gonna make a T shirt 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:24.800 that says drakes don't quack. 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:27.520 That's confidence. 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:32.400 Yeah, So there you have it. There's my opinion, there's 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:38.240 my stance on it. Drakes don't quack, they don't quack. 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.600 I think he just wanted to show off his turkey fan. 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:45.200 Put that in your pipe, smoky yohanni. 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.480 Wasn't there somebody on the crew who saw a hen 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:49.520 turkey gobble? 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:52.600 But that happens, but they don't gobble gobble? Right? 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:54.840 But like I mean, if if you were to say 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.280 the kind of gobble but not really gobble, could you 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:00.840 not apply the same thing here? Like a drake will 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.960 quack but not really quack, just kind of a quacky. 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:05.240 It's not quiet. 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:07.199 And I think I wish that Max would have been 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.199 able to do a better drake whistle. That sounded like 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:12.680 that drake quack that we heard from the Cornell Lab 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:13.760 of more Orthology. 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:17.160 Drake quick, all right, spend tell us about the oartion 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:18.440 house Bodies. 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:21.040 Auction house has one week left. Everything has been bid on. 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:24.119 We appreciate everyone throwing their money at this good cause. 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:26.720 There's one item though, that does not have a bid yet. 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:31.920 That is the boat motor. It's a Honda one fifty 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.320 V Tech outboard outboard motor. You got to pick it 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:37.880 up in Bozeman. We haven't listened at eight k right now. 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:39.840 That's that's like the first bid that's going to be made. 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.160 Can I talk about that? Tell why that is? Yep? 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:45.560 This this money all goes This is a fun This 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:49.240 is a fundraiser like a nonprofit venture. All this money 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:53.200 goes to land Access Fund. We know that we can 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.760 take that one hundred and fifty outboard Hondo. 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:59.200 Marketplace, we'd get ten to fifteen kit. 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:03.840 Because it's worth twice what's got it's got. The only 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:06.040 hours that has is the hours that we used to 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.359 film Doss Boat one season of doss Boat, which is 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:11.320 filmed over the course of a few dates. 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:14.679 Yeah, the episode I was involved in, we floated that 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.080 boat with no engine, then we put the engine on 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:18.640 and fished for four hours. 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:20.320 So my episode only had four hours. 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.280 And so it's it's worth twice if you went and 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:26.919 bought it new, which it is, it's worth twice that. 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:29.119 So we put the minimum at eight grand because we 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:32.000 could just go sell it on Facebook marketplace, or probably 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:34.720 just take it to Townsend and bring it to an outboard 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.080 dealer and sell it to him. For eight thousand bars. 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:39.240 This is the rare example in our auction house where 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:41.520 you could get something at a good deal and no 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:44.000 one's been of Dan, no one's been a day. So 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:47.520 we got the auction house going for another week. We 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:49.639 also have listed my box rocks. I don't feel like 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:51.800 that description does it justice, though, so I want to 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.359 tell you about my five favorite rocks. There's seventeen different 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:56.520 rocks I have in here that I've collected over the years. 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:58.920 I'm gonna give you my five favorite ones. First one 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:02.400 here is wonder Still from Nevada. We had the Mediater 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:04.560 Live tour in twenty twenty four. We spent the night 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:07.280 in Reno. I got up at five am. I went 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:08.840 and got a rental car. I drove out into the 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:12.040 desert about ninety minutes to a place car remember Rainbow Mountain. 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:13.920 Was everyone like PRIs Spencer going. 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:16.320 Steve threatened to come with me. Yeah, Steve threatened to 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:17.800 come with me, and I was like, I'll get you 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:20.240 up at five am, and you're like, eh, eh, maybe not. 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:21.119 I was already up. 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:25.160 So that that was formed by layers of volcanic ash. 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:28.240 It's a popular rock among artists who do mosaics because 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:30.120 you know, it's got a bunch of layers of color. 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:32.359 It's one of the prettiest rocks I own. So that 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:34.840 is wonderstone, also known as Ryo Light. 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:35.920 There you go. 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:37.680 This one's kind of an eyeball shit. 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:39.760 A few of these I have. 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:40.800 I have a few pieces. 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:41.200 Yeah. 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:43.399 There it is when I found it on the mountain. 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:46.320 And then the next picture is my suitcase going home. 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:50.520 I took them plenty plenty of Ryo Light Wonderstone with me. 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.520 The tour bus got heavier after that day. 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:54.600 That's a big one. 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:58.520 Next one obsidian from Oregon. I found this at the 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:02.120 Glass Butte in or Again, that's one of the biggest 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:06.280 obsidian deposits in the world. Ancient humans were spreading this 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:09.520 stuff all across the continent. Obsidian trace back to here 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:12.520 has been found in Ohio that ancient people's carried their 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:15.160 traded their way there. So we got a big old 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:17.400 piece of obsidity. You could keep it raw just like that, 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:20.520 or if you're a flint napperor you could turn into something. 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:21.840 That's what I was gonna do. 0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:23.960 You ever just get the urge to break some of 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:24.359 the rocks. 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:26.159 I got some of this and I did bust it 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:28.919 all up? Yeah, it's so nice. You hit that with 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:29.640 a hammer, dude. 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:32.240 Yes, this is a raw piece. You do whatever you 0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:34.119 like if you're gonna break it up, like put a 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:35.879 towel around it and then smash that thing with a 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:36.439 hammer and. 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:39.280 Then watch your ask. This stuff is sharp, the sharpest 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:40.280 natural substance. 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:43.080 Yeah, it's it's very sharp. This is a raw piece. 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:45.320 It's about the size of a softball, all right. Number 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:47.560 three is a leaf fossil from Idaho. 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:48.239 Uh. 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:51.160 There's this landowner there who was building a dirt bike 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:54.280 track back in the seventies. And as he's building this 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:57.520 dirt bike track, he starts excavating the side of a 0:22:57.560 --> 0:23:01.160 mountain and he uncovers a fifteen million year old lake bed. 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:04.640 And that lake formed when there was a volcano nearby 0:23:04.680 --> 0:23:07.080 that went off and it dammed up this river and 0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:09.240 just like in the blink of an eye, it it 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:13.879 totally flooded this valley and it put all these trees 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:16.919 and plant life under some really deep cold water. And 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:19.320 so this is one of those leaves looks like probably 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:20.280 from an elm. 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:21.680 How old is that? 0:23:22.400 --> 0:23:26.040 Fifteen million years old? Likely from an elm tree? Really 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:28.600 delicate rock When you go to this guy's place and 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:30.639 you find him just on his property somewhere, like I 0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:33.000 found him driving his tractor around. He's like, you here 0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:35.159 for the dirt bikes or the fossils, and then you 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:37.080 pay him like ten bucks or I don't remember what 0:23:37.080 --> 0:23:39.240 the what the fee was real cheap. It was like 0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:40.160 ten dollars and. 0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:42.280 You found all that, all that and you can for 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:45.240 ten bucks. That's you pick which one you want. 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:48.159 I don't remember what the dirt bike fee. My my 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:51.080 rock hounding fee was real cheap. It was only me 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:52.960 and my wife. And then there was one other group there. 0:23:53.480 --> 0:23:57.320 It was somebody from China who was doing a research project. 0:23:58.000 --> 0:23:58.280 All that. 0:23:58.560 --> 0:23:58.879 All that. 0:23:59.200 --> 0:24:01.560 Didn't ask any quot Russian. You just said knock yourself 0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:04.080 out and the ten dollar feet. So this is one 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:07.040 of those fossils that I found there. Damn yeah, I 0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:09.160 don't know, probably like six inches long. Looks like it's 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:11.040 probably from an from an elm tree. 0:24:12.000 --> 0:24:12.520 Number two. 0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:15.119 This is a fish fossil from Wyoming. It's from the 0:24:15.160 --> 0:24:19.400 world famous Green River Formation. It's a really amazing place 0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:22.560 called American Fossil. You book your dig like way in 0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:25.040 advance and then you get to go there. This is 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:28.800 a video of what a successful one of these would 0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:31.560 look like. Wow, this is a nidea. 0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:32.760 You that's me. 0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:36.720 That's the state fossil of Wyoming. It's an extinct type 0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:39.879 of herring. It's like one of the coolest places on 0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:40.440 planet Earth. 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:40.679 I think. 0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:42.840 You get to go to this giant quarry. You take 0:24:42.880 --> 0:24:45.719 home anything you find there. It can be absolutely anything. 0:24:45.920 --> 0:24:48.760 Fish is the most common, but there's mammals, insects, birds, 0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:52.160 There's been like a three toed horse that was discovered 0:24:52.160 --> 0:24:54.120 there and you could find something worth millions of dollars 0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:55.879 you get to take home. So this is one of 0:24:55.880 --> 0:24:57.440 those fish that I found that day. 0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:00.560 People do this up. They can go to hell. 0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:01.800 Uh. 0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:04.639 And then the last one here is a dino bone 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:08.200 that I found in Montana with the famous and infamous 0:25:08.320 --> 0:25:09.000 Jack Horner. 0:25:09.640 --> 0:25:10.960 I've been on the show him. 0:25:11.080 --> 0:25:12.719 Yeah, I put him in a real tough spot when 0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:14.080 he was on that show and I asked him if 0:25:14.119 --> 0:25:15.760 I could come with on a dino dig. And how 0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:16.320 does he say? 0:25:16.320 --> 0:25:16.480 No? 0:25:16.720 --> 0:25:17.880 You know when there's microphone. 0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:21.840 That's what happened, Yeah, on the show, and that's all 0:25:21.880 --> 0:25:23.040 you got in Yeah, I guess. 0:25:23.080 --> 0:25:25.720 So, So I'm like okay, And I emailed him the 0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:28.159 next day and like, Jack, when when can I join you? 0:25:28.200 --> 0:25:30.320 And so like three months later, I was on a 0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:33.760 dino dig with Jack in northern Montana. And this is 0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:36.320 a a duck bill dino, a type of duck bill 0:25:36.400 --> 0:25:39.600 that Jack actually discovered. Uh. And and if we were 0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:42.119 doing this news show back in February, we might have 0:25:42.200 --> 0:25:44.879 talked about Jack, huh, because he was in the Epstein Files. 0:25:45.240 --> 0:25:47.600 So that's why I say the infamous also infamous for 0:25:47.640 --> 0:25:49.680 other reasons. I never told this story, but I feel 0:25:49.720 --> 0:25:50.840 like it adds something to this. 0:25:51.200 --> 0:25:56.399 Oh, just be clear, being in the Epstein Files doesn't 0:25:56.480 --> 0:25:58.399 in and of itself mean anything. 0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:02.880 Yeah, to add context for for Jack's involvement, he went 0:26:03.080 --> 0:26:07.719 to Epstein's ranch in New Mexico to look for dino bones, 0:26:07.760 --> 0:26:10.600 and then I think they talked about him joining the 0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:13.440 ranch in Wyoming to also do some excavating. 0:26:13.520 --> 0:26:15.480 Yeah, yeah, it's just important. 0:26:15.720 --> 0:26:19.520 Yes, right, There's some more Jack Horner background about his 0:26:19.880 --> 0:26:21.600 one of his wives that he had. 0:26:22.040 --> 0:26:23.959 Okay, so he married a student. 0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:27.320 When I go to this dino dig, this was twenty 0:26:27.440 --> 0:26:30.800 twenty two, I believe as a volunteer, I'm teamed up 0:26:30.840 --> 0:26:33.160 with a paleontologist, and then you're like given a job 0:26:33.200 --> 0:26:36.040 and a paleontologist to work with. Our job was prospecting, 0:26:36.080 --> 0:26:38.680 meaning we got to just like wander around the badlands 0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:43.439 and look for possible fossils or like big big deposits 0:26:43.440 --> 0:26:47.560 of fossils. And I'm asking this woman some questions, and 0:26:47.760 --> 0:26:49.240 all of a sudden I elbow my wife. I'm like, 0:26:49.280 --> 0:26:53.119 I think this might be Jack's wife, that the student 0:26:53.160 --> 0:26:55.120 that he married. And then it comes out a little 0:26:55.160 --> 0:26:57.840 bit later that it was so I found this rock 0:26:58.080 --> 0:27:01.600 with Jack's famous x Y and Jack they split up 0:27:01.600 --> 0:27:04.240 the case they split up, Yeah, but they're still friends. 0:27:04.280 --> 0:27:06.359 They're great friends. And she's like, I love Jack. Jack's 0:27:06.359 --> 0:27:08.400 one of the most important people in my life. We're 0:27:08.400 --> 0:27:11.320 great friends. We still work together. So like the only 0:27:11.359 --> 0:27:13.880 people have touched his bone or Jack Horner, Jack Horner's 0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:17.960 ex wife me, my wife's that's the fossil you're getting 0:27:18.119 --> 0:27:21.320 from a type of dinosaur that he discovered back in 0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:23.240 the seventies that put Jack on the map. 0:27:24.359 --> 0:27:26.560 Duck Bill done got what a box of fossils? 0:27:26.560 --> 0:27:27.480 Seventeen of them? 0:27:27.520 --> 0:27:28.280 Those are five of. 0:27:28.240 --> 0:27:30.200 My that's just five. That's the worst five. 0:27:30.280 --> 0:27:34.320 Yeah, we got petrified wooden here, clam fossils, snail fossils, agots, 0:27:34.960 --> 0:27:35.439 all kinds of. 0:27:35.400 --> 0:27:42.159 Stuff ingot of gold, No, damn love it? Okay, on 0:27:42.440 --> 0:27:46.040 on the your news now. Your News today has brought 0:27:46.080 --> 0:27:48.119 to you by banished suppressors, which I'm holding in my 0:27:48.160 --> 0:27:50.679 hand here. What I'm holding my hands specifically is the 0:27:50.720 --> 0:27:54.040 meat eater banish collapse suppressor, which has the equivalent of 0:27:54.040 --> 0:27:56.959 like a little adjustable muzzle brake apparatus on the end. 0:27:56.960 --> 0:27:59.119 It's thirty cow. Can you can run on anything? I 0:27:59.240 --> 0:28:00.960 run one of these on my twenty two creed more 0:28:01.040 --> 0:28:05.439 on a rocky by that. Okay. The your News is 0:28:05.440 --> 0:28:07.680 a guy that rode in today. He comes and looking 0:28:07.720 --> 0:28:13.080 for life advice and he's gonna get it. He says 0:28:13.080 --> 0:28:13.640 he was at a. 0:28:13.640 --> 0:28:16.000 What was he at a state sale? 0:28:16.080 --> 0:28:18.399 He was out in a state sale. I don't know 0:28:18.400 --> 0:28:20.040 how he got there, and Randall wasn't there, but he 0:28:20.119 --> 0:28:24.000 was at in the state sale and he sees that 0:28:24.080 --> 0:28:31.320 there's a beaver pelt for sale. Winds up that there's 0:28:31.680 --> 0:28:34.199 two beaver pelts. Once he gets to asking about it, 0:28:35.280 --> 0:28:37.760 the old lady wants twenty five bucks for both of them. 0:28:38.280 --> 0:28:40.600 He somehow gets her down to twenty bucks, So he 0:28:40.600 --> 0:28:45.600 gets two beaver repelts for twenty bucks. He bought him 0:28:45.600 --> 0:28:48.360 because they seemed cool. He didn't want him to get 0:28:48.400 --> 0:28:52.280 thrown away. And he bought him because, quote, you guys 0:28:52.280 --> 0:28:55.200 have talked a lot about fur as such an interesting 0:28:55.200 --> 0:28:58.360 and high quality material. He goes on to say it, 0:28:58.360 --> 0:29:00.960 but having them, I don't really know what to do 0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:05.680 with them. Have a hat made, but it's not that cold here. 0:29:06.240 --> 0:29:13.280 I wouldn't get to use it hardly. Ever. My wife, Okay, 0:29:13.320 --> 0:29:16.280 it's hard for me to say this about crying. He says, 0:29:16.560 --> 0:29:20.120 my wife is unlikely to allow them as the core. 0:29:21.160 --> 0:29:23.720 I feel like he should have gone a little further here, 0:29:23.800 --> 0:29:26.400 and like, actually, like he hasn't even asked her yet. 0:29:26.960 --> 0:29:30.440 You know what I mean? We should wish it. I 0:29:30.480 --> 0:29:32.040 know we need that. 0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:34.240 I sometimes need to ask my wife about something for 0:29:34.280 --> 0:29:38.160 three months, just waiting for the right moment. I am 0:29:38.520 --> 0:29:42.120 the other I'm petrified. Anyway, I thought you guys might 0:29:42.160 --> 0:29:45.880 have some suggestions. Happy if you want to discuss on 0:29:45.920 --> 0:29:48.360 the pod or even drop me a line or email. 0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:51.880 Thanks in advance. I got a ton of suggestions. There's 0:29:51.960 --> 0:29:55.240 all kinds of stuff you could do with it. Nate 0:29:55.280 --> 0:29:58.720 pulled a picture here or my feet are resting on 0:29:58.800 --> 0:30:02.000 a beaver fer ottoman? How does a guy like this? 0:30:02.160 --> 0:30:04.000 How does a guy make something like this? I'll tell you. 0:30:05.400 --> 0:30:07.360 We had an ottoman and it had a little pad. 0:30:08.840 --> 0:30:11.520 I went and got some super thin so scrap a 0:30:11.520 --> 0:30:17.200 super thin plywood, put the plywood on the bottom, wrapped 0:30:17.240 --> 0:30:19.320 the beaver hide around the pad, and took a staple 0:30:19.360 --> 0:30:25.280 gun and there you have it. It still started making 0:30:25.280 --> 0:30:27.920 my back too sweaty. There was always a beaver repel 0:30:28.000 --> 0:30:31.280 over this chair I'm leaning on. You could take your 0:30:31.320 --> 0:30:33.360 two beaver repelts and have a hat made and send 0:30:33.360 --> 0:30:35.120 it to a person that lives in a cold place. 0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:38.720 You could just have it laying over a piece of furniture, 0:30:38.760 --> 0:30:40.440 and when people come over, you go see that that's 0:30:40.440 --> 0:30:41.160 a beaver repelt. 0:30:41.320 --> 0:30:42.680 Well, he's got his wife to contend. 0:30:42.720 --> 0:30:45.880 The biggest problem he's got. The biggest problem he's got 0:30:46.240 --> 0:30:48.680 is what do you mean your wife won't let you like? 0:30:48.760 --> 0:30:54.080 What does it? It's not even none of her business. When 0:30:54.080 --> 0:30:56.840 I'm talking about not asking my wife something for two weeks, 0:30:56.840 --> 0:30:58.240 it's not about something like that. 0:30:59.520 --> 0:31:01.800 Right. You would just lay it across the couch and 0:31:01.840 --> 0:31:06.160 be done with it. Oh yeah, I mean what I want? 0:31:06.680 --> 0:31:09.040 Nothing else is there? You don't want to be in 0:31:09.040 --> 0:31:09.880 a happy marriage. 0:31:10.600 --> 0:31:11.920 No, I would do the same thing. 0:31:12.040 --> 0:31:13.560 And it was like I was at my dentist the 0:31:13.600 --> 0:31:15.360 other day. Yes, she does at my dentist. 0:31:15.560 --> 0:31:16.680 Dennis, are problems you know? 0:31:16.800 --> 0:31:18.320 You telling me his wife's out of town. He hung 0:31:18.360 --> 0:31:19.920 a bunch of taxs during me up in a certain 0:31:19.920 --> 0:31:22.760 place in the living room. His wife comes back out 0:31:22.760 --> 0:31:24.520 of town. Doesn't like it, he said, But she can't 0:31:24.520 --> 0:31:25.320 even climb up there. 0:31:27.360 --> 0:31:29.920 Dude, I got my wife just built these shelves and 0:31:29.960 --> 0:31:34.360 there's twenty four nooks. Guess how many nooks I am allocated? 0:31:35.240 --> 0:31:35.600 Twelve? 0:31:36.080 --> 0:31:38.600 One, No, twelve, that's what I said. 0:31:38.960 --> 0:31:41.600 And you're not. No, You're gonna let it slide. 0:31:41.760 --> 0:31:45.239 I'm trying my best, but dude, all you do is 0:31:45.280 --> 0:31:48.520 you build your own thing with thirty nooks. 0:31:48.760 --> 0:31:51.840 Put that want give her one? Yeah. 0:31:52.080 --> 0:31:54.600 Man, there's all kinds of bad stuff about my wife, 0:31:54.680 --> 0:32:00.640 but the one thing like she never there's certain things 0:32:00.640 --> 0:32:04.200 she just does not mess with me about. She would 0:32:04.400 --> 0:32:06.360 never mess with me about something like this at home 0:32:06.400 --> 0:32:10.400 decor about skulls and all that kind of stuff. Never 0:32:10.480 --> 0:32:13.520 messes with me about it. That's gift, and like never 0:32:13.600 --> 0:32:16.280 messes with me about doing stuff in the kitchen. I 0:32:16.280 --> 0:32:18.200 could take a roadkill moose and put it on that 0:32:18.280 --> 0:32:20.000 counter and she's not gonna mention it. 0:32:20.520 --> 0:32:23.240 I feel like unless someone was like a vegan or 0:32:23.320 --> 0:32:26.680 seriously anti hunting or something like a beaver, pel's not 0:32:26.720 --> 0:32:28.120 offensive in any way. 0:32:28.320 --> 0:32:31.800 No, my wife is always mad at me, but like 0:32:31.960 --> 0:32:36.080 she doesn't mess with me about some things. She's perpetually 0:32:36.120 --> 0:32:38.600 mad about some stuff, but this is just not an 0:32:38.640 --> 0:32:40.160 issue I have to deal with, so it's hard for 0:32:40.200 --> 0:32:41.040 me to even empathize. 0:32:41.080 --> 0:32:43.160 Can we make that a regular segment like things that 0:32:43.200 --> 0:32:44.160 she's mad at you about? 0:32:44.200 --> 0:32:44.600 Oh yeh? 0:32:44.600 --> 0:32:50.000 She can Hosted's your House, Spencer Around Home Decort. 0:32:50.040 --> 0:32:52.200 I have a pretty good guess by now as to 0:32:52.280 --> 0:32:54.480 like what my wife would approve of and not approve of, 0:32:54.680 --> 0:32:57.000 and so I don't get that one wrong too often. 0:32:57.080 --> 0:32:59.280 But also if there's something I really want and she doesn't, 0:32:59.440 --> 0:33:01.440 I'll be like, this is really important to me. I 0:33:01.520 --> 0:33:04.680 really want this buck up in here that I killed. Yeah, 0:33:04.680 --> 0:33:06.720 And then I that that usually wins it for me, 0:33:07.000 --> 0:33:09.400 and I think that, But that's also like a powerful 0:33:09.440 --> 0:33:12.200 sentence to say, like this is important to me, so 0:33:12.240 --> 0:33:14.600 I don't use that one often either. I think you 0:33:14.600 --> 0:33:16.720 could tell your wife that these beaver pelts from this 0:33:16.880 --> 0:33:20.640 estate sale are very important to email her. That might 0:33:20.720 --> 0:33:21.200 just do it. 0:33:21.640 --> 0:33:24.400 If not, try to get a new one. I'll call 0:33:24.440 --> 0:33:27.360 him on the news. 0:33:27.480 --> 0:33:30.520 You didn't even mention getting them turned into a pillow. 0:33:30.600 --> 0:33:31.800 Those are some of my favorite things. 0:33:33.400 --> 0:33:35.840 Problem, So why didn't I think of that? You're gonna 0:33:35.880 --> 0:33:38.600 turn this into a win for your wife. I hadn't 0:33:38.600 --> 0:33:40.880 thought of that. I'm gonna give you a hot tip 0:33:43.040 --> 0:33:46.520 sewing by so My? Should we even say that? Should 0:33:46.480 --> 0:33:47.920 we bleeped that out? 0:33:48.680 --> 0:33:49.920 I'm sure she'd loved the business. 0:33:49.960 --> 0:33:53.360 Okay, I'm gonna give you a hot tip sewing by 0:33:53.880 --> 0:33:54.240 so My. 0:33:55.160 --> 0:33:56.880 How you spells some ice s O A. 0:33:57.200 --> 0:34:02.800 M I that's your hot tip. Say you want a pillow, 0:34:02.960 --> 0:34:09.400 leather backed pillow your wife. Your wife will be praising you. 0:34:10.880 --> 0:34:14.279 This is gonna turn all your marriage around. You're gonna 0:34:14.320 --> 0:34:16.320 become a household hero when. 0:34:16.120 --> 0:34:18.280 She she'll ask you to start trapping beavers. 0:34:18.320 --> 0:34:21.960 When you get that leather back beaver fur throw pillow 0:34:22.120 --> 0:34:28.680 in that house, she's not gonna get off it. You're 0:34:28.680 --> 0:34:30.279 not gonna see her in your bedroom anymore, because she's 0:34:30.280 --> 0:34:32.120 gonna be sleeping with her head on that couch pillow. 0:34:33.760 --> 0:34:34.520 Onto the news. 0:34:36.480 --> 0:34:39.040 Earn a buck is back, except now it's earn a 0:34:39.080 --> 0:34:39.720 second buck. 0:34:40.360 --> 0:34:43.399 Yeah that sounds that I like it. That's got more 0:34:43.400 --> 0:34:45.080 of her, that's got more of a bring. 0:34:45.560 --> 0:34:45.799 Yeah. 0:34:45.880 --> 0:34:48.279 Yeah, it will give you the first one, you gotta 0:34:48.320 --> 0:34:51.520 earn the second one. In New York State this time 0:34:51.960 --> 0:34:56.040 h Beginning this year, UH, New York hunters MSS harvest 0:34:56.080 --> 0:35:00.760 and report an antlerless deer, dough or antlerless buck before 0:35:00.840 --> 0:35:05.120 becoming eligible to shoot a second antler buck or antler deer. 0:35:06.239 --> 0:35:09.520 It's a statewide rule. It replaces the previous system that 0:35:09.719 --> 0:35:12.920 allowed many hunters to harvest two bucks without taking an 0:35:12.960 --> 0:35:17.560 antler list deer. Every licensed hunter will still receive an 0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:21.839 antler deer tag, and they'll earn that second antler deer 0:35:21.880 --> 0:35:26.319 tag only after legally harvesting and reporting an antler list deer. 0:35:26.520 --> 0:35:29.080 Can you back up minute, yep and explain to people, 0:35:29.239 --> 0:35:32.799 why why is this even a thing? 0:35:33.200 --> 0:35:36.200 That's that's all next. So New York State's got a 0:35:36.280 --> 0:35:41.640 million white tails, five hundred thousand hunters. Deer hunters annual 0:35:41.680 --> 0:35:46.920 harvest is around two and twenty five thousand deer, but 0:35:47.040 --> 0:35:48.399 only one hundred thousand. 0:35:48.040 --> 0:35:48.920 Of those are dose. 0:35:50.200 --> 0:35:53.120 So in a lot of wildlife management units, the deer 0:35:53.200 --> 0:35:59.080 population is greatly exceeding objectives. And they're starting to see 0:35:59.239 --> 0:36:04.000 that excess browsing is creating poor habitat, nutritional stress on 0:36:04.080 --> 0:36:07.960 the deer that are there, and it slows down forest regeneration. 0:36:08.040 --> 0:36:12.919 They're also seeing crop damage, more deer vehicle collisions. So 0:36:12.960 --> 0:36:16.200 the dough harvest is the rate is too low, and 0:36:16.560 --> 0:36:20.359 in fact, only about thirteen percent of New York deer 0:36:20.400 --> 0:36:24.880 hunter's harvest one antlerless deer only three percent for harvest 0:36:24.960 --> 0:36:30.040 and two or more. Really, yeah, I don't so, I 0:36:30.040 --> 0:36:32.080 don't get it personally, Like it was never a big 0:36:32.160 --> 0:36:34.880 like we always were all about harvesting. Does you know, 0:36:35.040 --> 0:36:36.960 I don't know why it's a big deal these days, 0:36:37.760 --> 0:36:43.040 but de EC Department of Environmental Conservation. 0:36:43.120 --> 0:36:46.560 Can you look that up? A Department of Environmental Conservation. 0:36:46.680 --> 0:36:46.879 Yeah. 0:36:47.080 --> 0:36:50.560 So they did like focus groups and surveys and things, 0:36:50.600 --> 0:36:53.280 and they had input from biologists all over the state. 0:36:55.160 --> 0:36:58.319 But before they came to this like this idea for 0:36:58.400 --> 0:37:02.000 harvesting more, does actually something that came out in that 0:37:02.080 --> 0:37:05.320 same the same surveys. Is a lot of hunters preferred 0:37:05.400 --> 0:37:09.719 going back to a one buck limit, but uh DC concluded, 0:37:09.960 --> 0:37:11.960 you know, that's not going to do anything to increase 0:37:12.000 --> 0:37:14.640 antler list harvest, So there was no reason to do that. 0:37:16.239 --> 0:37:21.279 But at its inception to earn a buck concept was 0:37:21.320 --> 0:37:24.400 you they were going into to try to control deer numbers, 0:37:24.440 --> 0:37:27.960 and particularly around c w D. They were going to 0:37:28.040 --> 0:37:31.120 places where you traditionally would just get a buck tag. Yeah, 0:37:31.160 --> 0:37:34.280 and they were going to hunters and saying, no longer 0:37:34.800 --> 0:37:37.279 can you just get a bus. You gotta you have 0:37:37.360 --> 0:37:39.680 to kill a dough to get a buck, and that 0:37:39.719 --> 0:37:43.239 wound up being in some areas exceedingly unpopular. Wisconsin did 0:37:43.239 --> 0:37:44.279 it and undid it. 0:37:44.440 --> 0:37:46.880 Yeah, we'll get well, I'm gonna get to all that stuff. 0:37:48.640 --> 0:37:51.040 So the regular season deer tag is now called the 0:37:51.080 --> 0:37:54.080 antler deer tag. And you and you qualify for that 0:37:54.200 --> 0:37:57.839 second buck by using you know, just a rifle dough 0:37:57.880 --> 0:38:02.560 tag of bow, muzzleoader, whatever you get the dough with, 0:38:02.640 --> 0:38:05.720 it doesn't matter. You'll get that second buck tag after 0:38:05.840 --> 0:38:09.600 you prove that you've killed that dough. And this was 0:38:09.719 --> 0:38:15.120 this was some interesting stuff here. The state's gonna implement 0:38:15.400 --> 0:38:19.600 verification measures to prove to make sure hunters prove that 0:38:19.640 --> 0:38:22.680 they actually killed the deer, because there was some concern 0:38:22.760 --> 0:38:25.560 around people just like filling out a tag and saying, 0:38:25.960 --> 0:38:28.640 you know, I killed one and then they get straight 0:38:28.680 --> 0:38:31.360 to that second buck. They were never interested in shooting 0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:34.440 a dough So they're they're gonna do field checks. Hunters 0:38:34.480 --> 0:38:38.240 may be required to sign an attestation verifying the report 0:38:40.160 --> 0:38:44.120 they if requested, hunters must provide proof of the harvest 0:38:44.160 --> 0:38:47.960 within a week, and that could be a photograph, it 0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:51.040 could be a like a receipt from a deer processor. 0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:54.600 They're just trying to like dissuade people from fake in it, 0:38:55.000 --> 0:38:56.719 and if they do get caught fake in it, it's 0:38:57.680 --> 0:39:01.200 and fifty dollars per fence up to two grand, possibly 0:39:01.280 --> 0:39:02.200 one year in jail. 0:39:03.160 --> 0:39:06.160 I imagine that. What are you in for? Yeah, but 0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:07.960 this is what do you I'm in for? Murder? What 0:39:07.960 --> 0:39:09.319 are you in for? It's like, well, you know the. 0:39:10.920 --> 0:39:15.759 Program, Yeah, Like New York's going big on proving this. 0:39:16.120 --> 0:39:20.520 Michigan also just like they just came out with a 0:39:20.920 --> 0:39:24.680 new proposal for a similar earn a second buck program. 0:39:25.080 --> 0:39:27.600 They're they're looking to do a pilot program in five 0:39:27.680 --> 0:39:31.560 counties in southern Michigan. And their proof is just like 0:39:31.719 --> 0:39:34.200 the tag. They're just like we kind of looked at 0:39:34.560 --> 0:39:37.360 proving it all these different ways. It was too expensive, 0:39:37.480 --> 0:39:41.359 so a tag's good enough. So Michigan's going a much 0:39:41.400 --> 0:39:42.279 different direction. 0:39:42.200 --> 0:39:44.400 Tag as in I bought a tag. 0:39:44.200 --> 0:39:49.880 No like you like like you know, they just looked 0:39:49.880 --> 0:39:54.080 at like dealing with photos and and like game check 0:39:54.120 --> 0:39:56.239 stations all that, and it was just too much more. 0:39:56.360 --> 0:39:58.600 But that was the that was the accusation I heard 0:39:58.600 --> 0:40:01.080 in Wisconsin. When Wisconsin did earn a buck. I would 0:40:01.120 --> 0:40:03.840 hear from guys saying that a group of guys that 0:40:04.000 --> 0:40:08.080 get a dough and everybody'd use it right, Yeah, for 0:40:08.120 --> 0:40:09.399 sure to go get their buck. 0:40:09.440 --> 0:40:14.600 Take now like this, like white tail populations are like 0:40:14.680 --> 0:40:16.600 going through the roof in a lot of places. They're 0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:20.759 like Steve mentions, there's concerns with CWD, but still like 0:40:20.960 --> 0:40:25.279 it's it hasn't This program has not been popular in 0:40:25.280 --> 0:40:29.040 the past, Like hunters feel like it delays their opportunity 0:40:29.120 --> 0:40:31.719 to kill a buck. If you're a hunter who can 0:40:31.760 --> 0:40:34.080 only you know, maybe hunt one day on the weekend 0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:36.880 or two days on the weekend. It's it's like limited 0:40:36.960 --> 0:40:41.440 time trophy. Hunters that aren't interested in shooting dose at 0:40:41.480 --> 0:40:45.160 all aren't interested in it. And this, this last one 0:40:45.440 --> 0:40:48.560 makes some sense because the regulation can tend to treat 0:40:49.160 --> 0:40:52.160 low density and high density deer areas of the same. 0:40:53.640 --> 0:40:57.360 For example, in New York, the Northern Zone the Adirondacks, Like, 0:40:57.400 --> 0:41:02.520 that's an area with really low deer density, So you 0:41:02.560 --> 0:41:05.399 know it's gonna make it harder to get that dough 0:41:05.440 --> 0:41:10.040 and then get that second buck. The DC's DC says 0:41:10.080 --> 0:41:13.719 it's to incentivedvise, not punish hunters. If they do want 0:41:13.719 --> 0:41:16.680 a second buck, they can travel to one of the 0:41:16.719 --> 0:41:19.560 wildlife management units where there's a lot of dos and 0:41:20.080 --> 0:41:25.320 do it that way. For those hunters that like don't 0:41:25.400 --> 0:41:28.120 like it, maybe question whether it works, Like there's proof 0:41:28.200 --> 0:41:32.760 that it does work. You control populations by shooting dos. 0:41:32.960 --> 0:41:36.160 Wisconsint pioneered the Earner Buck program in the late in 0:41:36.200 --> 0:41:37.240 the nineteen nineties. 0:41:38.440 --> 0:41:39.279 It ran a. 0:41:39.239 --> 0:41:42.640 Little more than a decade before it got shut down 0:41:43.080 --> 0:41:47.800 just because of a hunter dissatisfaction. Dissatisfaction with the program, 0:41:48.080 --> 0:41:51.080 but it increased dough harvest rates by twenty to forty percent, 0:41:51.200 --> 0:41:58.200 reduced deer densities and it helped improve forest regeneration the 0:41:58.239 --> 0:42:02.040 wildlife management in Wisconsintly, they concluded it was like a 0:42:02.160 --> 0:42:06.400 very successful program, but it's just like the hunters didn't 0:42:06.480 --> 0:42:08.520 like it. Doug Dernill tell you it is the most 0:42:08.680 --> 0:42:13.680 effective white tail heard management strategy ever created. There's a 0:42:13.680 --> 0:42:16.279 few other states that have experimented with it, not like 0:42:16.360 --> 0:42:19.960 on a state wide level. Iowa and some other Midwestern 0:42:19.960 --> 0:42:23.960 states have run like localized earn a buck regulations with 0:42:24.000 --> 0:42:28.799 the same results like higher dough harvest and faster population reductions. 0:42:29.440 --> 0:42:32.799 So like it does work. We'll see if the New 0:42:32.840 --> 0:42:36.160 York hunters embrace it or not. I'm not sure how 0:42:36.160 --> 0:42:38.560 it's going to go. Like I'm all for it, but 0:42:38.640 --> 0:42:41.360 I've never like really done it or experienced it. 0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:45.400 YEP. I would say, if you were a state and 0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:47.680 you had a rigid you like in a rigid one 0:42:47.719 --> 0:42:50.160 buck state. Yeah, okay, we're in a like we live 0:42:50.160 --> 0:42:52.960 in a one buck state. Rigidly one buck. 0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:54.799 In New York is a two buck state. They're not 0:42:54.840 --> 0:42:56.640 going from one to two. I'm not saying it too. 0:42:56.880 --> 0:43:00.759 I'm saying but let's say Pennsylvania two bucks state or 0:43:00.800 --> 0:43:03.000 a one buck state, ye. I think the way to 0:43:03.080 --> 0:43:06.279 do it is you got to you'd be like, let's 0:43:06.280 --> 0:43:10.399 say you're a one buck state. You say, you still 0:43:10.400 --> 0:43:12.759 get your one buck same as normal. You got to 0:43:12.840 --> 0:43:19.120 kill two does and then you earn an unprecedented yeah, 0:43:20.440 --> 0:43:24.279 second buck opportunity. An opportunity that would be people feel 0:43:24.280 --> 0:43:27.080 like they're getting more, not like they got to jump 0:43:27.120 --> 0:43:29.600 through hoops to get what they've always had, because that's 0:43:29.600 --> 0:43:31.520 when you wind up with discontent. Yeah. 0:43:31.719 --> 0:43:35.040 But I mean it's like falling dough harvest is like 0:43:35.080 --> 0:43:36.440 a problem all over the country. 0:43:36.480 --> 0:43:38.680 These yes, people don't because people are pains these they 0:43:38.680 --> 0:43:43.080 don't want to eat deer meat. The Yeah, here's the 0:43:43.320 --> 0:43:45.120 like in twenty years, this has become more clear. Maybe 0:43:45.160 --> 0:43:47.640 to be fifty years have become more clear. Of the 0:43:47.680 --> 0:43:51.200 two conversations, there's two conversations happening about deer white tail 0:43:51.280 --> 0:43:57.080 deer in America. Conversation one, there's too many white tail 0:43:57.080 --> 0:44:01.839 deer over vast of the range. There's too many white 0:44:01.840 --> 0:44:08.440 tail deer by someone's measure, yep, okay, landscaping tics, agriculture, 0:44:08.880 --> 0:44:13.360 highway collisions. By someone's measure, there's too many deer. The 0:44:13.400 --> 0:44:17.160 other major conversation happening around whitetail deer in America is 0:44:17.200 --> 0:44:21.880 that we have that chronic wasting disease is spreading, and 0:44:22.120 --> 0:44:27.000 ultimately chronic wasting disease is going to have population level impacts. 0:44:27.360 --> 0:44:31.120 Some people projected it's going to have catastrophic population level impact. 0:44:30.880 --> 0:44:34.400 And they're seeing falling populations in places already. 0:44:34.480 --> 0:44:38.240 I know, but these two stories, you're right, well, yes, 0:44:38.520 --> 0:44:43.000 you can argue it. Yeah, these two stories at some 0:44:43.239 --> 0:44:46.120 point are going to need to reconcile with each other. Yeah, 0:44:46.320 --> 0:44:51.759 these two narratives are not in sync. Nope, And like 0:44:52.160 --> 0:44:53.600 and I don't know, is it twenty years? Is the 0:44:53.640 --> 0:44:57.759 fifty years when it becomes clear where one of the 0:44:57.880 --> 0:45:02.680 narratives was wrong or or something, or they come together 0:45:03.480 --> 0:45:05.759 and all of a sudden, we're talking about there are 0:45:05.800 --> 0:45:06.520 no deer anymore. 0:45:07.080 --> 0:45:10.239 Yeah, hopefully it's not that. Hopefully it's like a management 0:45:10.280 --> 0:45:14.360 strategy that everyone agrees works. You know, like here in 0:45:14.400 --> 0:45:18.040 Montana they have special CWD hunts, like late in the 0:45:18.080 --> 0:45:21.440 season where it's you know, he doesn't matter if you've 0:45:21.440 --> 0:45:23.840 already shot a buck. You can get these CWD tags 0:45:23.840 --> 0:45:25.279 and go in and kill a buck or a doe. 0:45:26.000 --> 0:45:28.480 You just got to be prepared to deal with a 0:45:28.520 --> 0:45:30.440 deer that might be CWD positive. 0:45:31.120 --> 0:45:34.759 In the same season, I hunted two different earn a 0:45:34.800 --> 0:45:39.600 buck programs in two different states. One was you could 0:45:39.600 --> 0:45:41.520 shoot a buck. It was exactly like this, you could 0:45:41.520 --> 0:45:43.080 shoot a buck and then you had to shoot a 0:45:43.080 --> 0:45:45.759 doe in order to shoot a second buck. And the 0:45:45.840 --> 0:45:47.960 other one you had to shoot a dough before you 0:45:47.960 --> 0:45:49.759 were allowed to shoot your one buck. 0:45:51.400 --> 0:45:51.960 I shot. 0:45:52.360 --> 0:45:55.000 I was way more motivated to go out and kill 0:45:55.040 --> 0:45:57.960 that first dough I traveled to. I traveled probably eight 0:45:58.000 --> 0:46:01.160 hours to go hunt over a Halloween weekend, shoot a dough, 0:46:01.440 --> 0:46:04.080 came back home, then went two weeks later to shoot 0:46:04.080 --> 0:46:07.279 a buck. The other program, where it was shoot a buck, 0:46:07.280 --> 0:46:09.480 shoot a dose, shoot a second buck, was my home state. 0:46:10.200 --> 0:46:12.800 I shot a buck peak Rut and I was like, cool, 0:46:13.000 --> 0:46:15.560 I'm good. I didn't go out and shoot another dough 0:46:15.600 --> 0:46:17.359 and I wanted to. It's not like I was like, oh, 0:46:17.360 --> 0:46:19.719 screw these guys. I wanted to go shoot out another dough. 0:46:19.760 --> 0:46:21.320 It was not a high enough priority for me to 0:46:21.320 --> 0:46:22.080 get out there and do it. 0:46:22.239 --> 0:46:25.399 Yeah, I don't get the like not wanting to go 0:46:25.480 --> 0:46:27.680 hunt and shoot a deer and eat a deer like 0:46:27.920 --> 0:46:32.120 you're eat something you're hunting too and learning. 0:46:32.920 --> 0:46:34.120 But I still here. 0:46:34.320 --> 0:46:36.240 There's still people out there, and it might have something 0:46:36.239 --> 0:46:38.480 to do with just the you know, high density, low 0:46:38.520 --> 0:46:44.000 density areas. But there's people that have memories of years 0:46:44.000 --> 0:46:47.719 where there were more deer in their area and they 0:46:47.960 --> 0:46:50.719 long for those times when they would see twenty deer 0:46:50.880 --> 0:46:52.359 a sit instead of just two. 0:46:53.080 --> 0:46:53.759 And well, I. 0:46:53.680 --> 0:46:55.759 Mean that was me when I was a kid. We'd 0:46:55.800 --> 0:46:59.200 see forty deer and one was a spike. 0:47:00.640 --> 0:47:04.400 Yeah, but people miss those days, you know, they like 0:47:04.600 --> 0:47:05.719 target rich environment. 0:47:06.080 --> 0:47:12.120 Yeah, sure, yeah, all right, moving on to the to 0:47:12.200 --> 0:47:17.400 the Wild Buffalo Reporting Desk story about American Prairie. Some 0:47:17.440 --> 0:47:19.600 of you might know it as American Prairie Reserve. It's 0:47:19.640 --> 0:47:22.400 now American Prairie for reference sake, if you want to 0:47:22.400 --> 0:47:25.200 go back into our library. We recently did an episode 0:47:25.280 --> 0:47:29.440 with the CEO of American Prairie about their mission. To 0:47:29.480 --> 0:47:31.600 summarize real quick before you get into the nitty gritty 0:47:31.640 --> 0:47:35.359 on this one, American Prairie is a is a conservation 0:47:35.800 --> 0:47:39.920 land preservation organization that operates out of north central Montana. 0:47:40.480 --> 0:47:45.960 Their objective is to buy land on the open market. Okay, 0:47:46.000 --> 0:47:49.919 willing seller willing buyer. They just bid and buy land 0:47:49.960 --> 0:47:53.040 on the open market and then try to restore it 0:47:53.080 --> 0:47:59.080 to you know, as pristine as possible of a landscape. 0:48:00.000 --> 0:48:03.000 But they own outright deeded land. They own about one 0:48:03.080 --> 0:48:07.239 hundred and sixty seven thousand acres of deeded land. They 0:48:07.280 --> 0:48:11.720 sit on grazing leases. They sit on more grazing lease 0:48:11.840 --> 0:48:15.000 land than they sit on deeded land. So to the 0:48:15.040 --> 0:48:20.879 tune of it, they have grazing rights either because they 0:48:20.920 --> 0:48:23.520 own it or they lease it on about a half 0:48:23.600 --> 0:48:29.000 million acres. Okay, I'm throwing out some big numbers, and 0:48:29.040 --> 0:48:31.640 some people maybe not be able to picture this. All right. 0:48:33.360 --> 0:48:36.799 America Prairie again, they own one hundred and sixty seven 0:48:36.840 --> 0:48:40.399 thousand acres, all right, The biggest ranch in the state 0:48:40.440 --> 0:48:44.480 of Montana, four hundred thousand acres, is owned by Rupert Murdoch. 0:48:45.960 --> 0:48:50.600 Ap America Prairie owns more acres than Ted Turner's Flying 0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:54.520 d So this is a big ranch. Very controversial. I'll 0:48:54.520 --> 0:48:57.040 get into that in a minute, but I'm on before 0:48:57.160 --> 0:48:59.640 saying that it's very controversial, I'm clarify all of that 0:48:59.760 --> 0:49:02.800 land is all public. So the one hundred and sixty 0:49:02.800 --> 0:49:05.400 seven thousand acres they own is open to the public. 0:49:05.440 --> 0:49:07.879 You can walk across it, you can walk your dog 0:49:07.920 --> 0:49:11.560 on it, you can go around looking around. The deed 0:49:11.560 --> 0:49:14.880 of land is state and federal public land. So the 0:49:14.920 --> 0:49:17.719 fact that they least grazing rights on it does not 0:49:17.840 --> 0:49:20.880 make it that you can't hunt it. It's totally open 0:49:20.920 --> 0:49:24.440 in public. They just have the right to run cattle, 0:49:24.800 --> 0:49:29.440 buffalo whatever, to graze the grass, all right. Part of 0:49:29.480 --> 0:49:34.799 the controversy of AP, there's a rallying cry to the 0:49:34.880 --> 0:49:38.840 opposition to AP, which is save the cowboys, Stop American prairie. 0:49:39.480 --> 0:49:42.399 It's this idea that if you buy up ranch land 0:49:42.440 --> 0:49:45.600 and just use it for wildlife, you are creating an 0:49:45.680 --> 0:49:48.560 existential threat to the American cowboy because he's supposed to 0:49:48.560 --> 0:49:50.400 be out rope and cattle, and all of a sudden, 0:49:50.400 --> 0:49:51.359 now it's just deer and elk. 0:49:51.760 --> 0:49:53.879 It's a popular sign, you see, the way you'd see 0:49:53.880 --> 0:49:54.920 a politician sign. 0:49:56.000 --> 0:49:58.560 And I'll point out that on a lot of AP's 0:49:58.640 --> 0:50:01.360 property there's till graising cattle. 0:50:01.600 --> 0:50:02.440 That a lot of. 0:50:02.400 --> 0:50:05.239 Them, I'll point out too. AP owns, as I going 0:50:05.320 --> 0:50:08.600 to get into, they own about nine hundred and seventy 0:50:09.120 --> 0:50:13.440 buffalo there are two million cattle in Montana, So the 0:50:13.520 --> 0:50:16.840 existential threat that these animals provide is a little bit. 0:50:16.880 --> 0:50:18.600 You gotta take it with you know, you gotta think 0:50:18.600 --> 0:50:24.440 of the numbers here. Okay. I find American Prairie to 0:50:24.480 --> 0:50:28.320 be controversial. Why do I think they're controversial? My concern 0:50:28.440 --> 0:50:30.880 with American Prairie, as I've told everybody I know that 0:50:30.960 --> 0:50:33.080 works there or runs the place, or is on the board, 0:50:33.560 --> 0:50:38.880 my concern is that their commitment to public hunting is tepid. 0:50:39.680 --> 0:50:41.080 And when I put that in my notes, where I 0:50:41.120 --> 0:50:42.759 don't think anyone's ever said the word tep it on 0:50:42.800 --> 0:50:45.880 this show, I don't recall means lukewarm. 0:50:46.000 --> 0:50:48.560 I was just gonna say, I'm concerns. 0:50:48.200 --> 0:50:51.400 That their commitment to public hunting is lukewarm. 0:50:51.480 --> 0:50:52.239 What do they say to you? 0:50:52.320 --> 0:50:57.080 They say, of course not, we have this and this 0:50:57.160 --> 0:51:01.239 and this, but they put restrictions. They put hunting restrictions 0:51:01.280 --> 0:51:03.840 above and beyond what the state puts, and they basically 0:51:03.960 --> 0:51:07.480 not basically they put a mildier hunting moratorium on their land, 0:51:07.960 --> 0:51:10.600 but the state is not eye to eye on that. Right. 0:51:10.880 --> 0:51:13.120 And then even like you go ask like deer researchers, 0:51:13.320 --> 0:51:16.680 like a limited buck harvest, limited meal. Your buck harvest 0:51:16.800 --> 0:51:22.000 has zero impact a mild your populations, right, it doesn't matter. 0:51:22.840 --> 0:51:26.440 But and that's what it would be. So that's that's 0:51:26.480 --> 0:51:30.399 why they're controversial to me. But I'll try to look 0:51:30.400 --> 0:51:32.359 at things. In this case, I look at the good 0:51:32.360 --> 0:51:34.000 and the bad. This is just the story of what's 0:51:34.040 --> 0:51:34.479 going on. 0:51:35.000 --> 0:51:36.839 On the hunting thing. Like I would point out that 0:51:37.280 --> 0:51:40.120 Montana is block management, which is like private land open 0:51:40.120 --> 0:51:42.960 to public. It's not uncommon for those pieces to be 0:51:43.040 --> 0:51:46.160 open to hunting, but have restrictions, right, Like you can't 0:51:46.239 --> 0:51:48.959 kill an elk here, correct, you can't duck hunt. They're right, 0:51:49.160 --> 0:51:52.000 you can't drive these roads, so like we see that 0:51:52.040 --> 0:51:53.600 in other parts of this yet. But they have a 0:51:53.640 --> 0:51:57.160 lot of acreage. Again, I would say this, I did 0:51:57.200 --> 0:51:58.680 say this. I would say this with them sitting right 0:51:58.680 --> 0:52:01.040 here because I'm like sympathetic to the mission. 0:52:01.080 --> 0:52:03.440 I support the buffalo part of the mission. I think 0:52:03.560 --> 0:52:07.399 that they would be doing themselves a strategic favor by 0:52:07.520 --> 0:52:12.799 being more open, putting, more lands open to hunting, less restrictions, 0:52:12.840 --> 0:52:15.359 more agage of hunting, because you're going to create all 0:52:15.400 --> 0:52:18.920 the hunters are going to be your allies. But instead 0:52:19.120 --> 0:52:21.839 you're creating an impression in people's minds. They don't want 0:52:21.840 --> 0:52:24.680 me around, and if they buy up more land, it's 0:52:24.719 --> 0:52:27.680 more land that I'm not welcome on. It's just it's 0:52:28.680 --> 0:52:30.200 this is way beyond what I want to talk about. 0:52:30.440 --> 0:52:35.520 What I want to talk about here is politics. Their buffalo. 0:52:36.000 --> 0:52:38.879 They run their buffalo as was called a conservation herd. 0:52:39.880 --> 0:52:42.120 It's not a production herd. They're not running buffalo in 0:52:42.200 --> 0:52:46.080 order to produce highe leather meat, right, They're running it 0:52:46.120 --> 0:52:48.520 as a restoration project. 0:52:49.080 --> 0:52:54.360 It's the native They're categorized as livestock, aren't they. 0:52:54.640 --> 0:52:56.759 They have to be in this state. Okay, these are 0:52:57.120 --> 0:53:03.040 ear tagged counted animals, not because they necessarily want them 0:53:03.040 --> 0:53:06.400 to be, but they're not regard even though they're a 0:53:06.480 --> 0:53:09.960 native land mammal, they're not regarded as wildlife in Montana. 0:53:10.000 --> 0:53:12.520 They have to be regarded as livestock. So yes, out 0:53:12.560 --> 0:53:16.279 of necessity they have to like count them, manage them 0:53:16.320 --> 0:53:20.000 like livestock. But the objective is this is the dominant 0:53:20.160 --> 0:53:24.600 native land mammal on that landscape historically, and they're trying 0:53:24.640 --> 0:53:27.959 to put them back on the landscape. So they're doing 0:53:28.000 --> 0:53:31.200 this by buying ranchland and letting the buffalo roam on it. 0:53:31.560 --> 0:53:35.280 And they're doing it by doing leases, paying the lease fees, 0:53:35.360 --> 0:53:38.480 and letting their buffalo run on state and federal grazing leases. 0:53:38.800 --> 0:53:42.200 All right, what's a grazing lease. Well, a grazing lease 0:53:42.320 --> 0:53:45.719 is the West is full of it. A grazing lease 0:53:45.760 --> 0:53:47.040 is you got a chunk of land. Let's say it. 0:53:47.200 --> 0:53:50.720 Let's just say for easy's sake, it's a thousand acres 0:53:51.640 --> 0:53:54.840 you strike a deal with if it's Bureau of Land Management, 0:53:54.880 --> 0:53:57.600 federally managed public land, Bureau of Land Management, they open 0:53:57.680 --> 0:54:00.680 up a grazing lease for a thousand acres, they will 0:54:00.680 --> 0:54:08.920 tell you you can graze blank number, blank cowcaff pairs 0:54:08.960 --> 0:54:13.160 for blank months. And that's how it's like measured in 0:54:13.239 --> 0:54:14.160 animal units. 0:54:14.239 --> 0:54:16.080 And if you're in a very lush place, that'll be 0:54:16.080 --> 0:54:18.000 a high number, yep. And if you're in the bad 0:54:18.080 --> 0:54:20.560 lands where it's all brown for you know, ten months 0:54:20.600 --> 0:54:22.000 of the year, it's going to be a really low number. 0:54:22.040 --> 0:54:26.520 Exactly. It's tweaked according to an assessment of the productivity 0:54:26.520 --> 0:54:29.919 of the land. And you get a deal, you sign 0:54:29.960 --> 0:54:33.719 a lease, you pay a fee. American Prairie has This 0:54:34.080 --> 0:54:37.960 is a quote from AP. There's pointing this out in 0:54:38.360 --> 0:54:40.719 terms of this grazing lease debate that I'm going to 0:54:40.760 --> 0:54:46.360 explain as American Prairie says, America Prairie has lawfully grazed 0:54:46.400 --> 0:54:50.839 bison on b LM lands for more than twenty years, 0:54:51.960 --> 0:54:57.560 complying with every rule, regulation, and permit requirement. There have 0:54:57.760 --> 0:55:04.359 been no grazing violations, and the administrative record contains objective 0:55:04.520 --> 0:55:09.279 evidence showing that range land conditions have improved over the 0:55:09.360 --> 0:55:15.720 last two decades with bison on the landscape. However, right now, 0:55:16.120 --> 0:55:21.880 after twenty years, for reasons I'll get into the state 0:55:21.880 --> 0:55:28.160 of Montana, and the Feds are tag teaming American Prairie. 0:55:28.400 --> 0:55:31.879 They're coming at American Prairie on state leases. They're coming 0:55:31.960 --> 0:55:36.440 at American Prairie on federal leases. Under the direction of 0:55:36.680 --> 0:55:42.720 Secretary of Interior Bergham, the Department of Interior is pulling 0:55:44.200 --> 0:55:50.520 American Prairie's federal leases. That's one fight. It warrants a 0:55:50.560 --> 0:55:53.840 ton of discussion. But since this is a news show, 0:55:54.080 --> 0:55:57.680 the news right now in this moment is about the 0:55:57.840 --> 0:56:03.239 state leases that American Prairie has. Okay, America Prairie is 0:56:03.280 --> 0:56:10.160 aiming to graze bison on five thousand acres of lands 0:56:10.200 --> 0:56:13.600 owned by the State of Montana. They already have the permit, 0:56:13.600 --> 0:56:16.520 they're just looking to put the animals out there. The 0:56:16.600 --> 0:56:21.520 state manages one point four million acres of grazing leases. 0:56:21.880 --> 0:56:25.480 So to put this another way, America Prairie is asking 0:56:26.120 --> 0:56:34.319 to graze buffalo on point zero one percent of the 0:56:34.360 --> 0:56:42.120 state's grazing acreage a tenth of a percent, okay. In 0:56:42.239 --> 0:56:44.640 seeking permission from the state to do this, the state 0:56:44.840 --> 0:56:52.920 slow walked them for seven years, would not process the request. Eventually, 0:56:53.000 --> 0:56:55.279 the state Supreme Court steps in and says, that's just 0:56:55.400 --> 0:57:01.840 bad government. You gotta process their request. So what happens 0:57:01.880 --> 0:57:05.120 now The state now is saying we're not going to 0:57:05.200 --> 0:57:08.920 let permits out to people that want to graze buffalo 0:57:08.960 --> 0:57:13.759 and a conservation herd. One of the perspectives on this 0:57:14.560 --> 0:57:19.760 is a stock grower, a stock grower's organization opposed to 0:57:19.800 --> 0:57:24.200 them putting buffalo out a discretion. A discussion is that 0:57:24.240 --> 0:57:27.880 they're saying grazing leases were intended for what they call 0:57:28.000 --> 0:57:34.920 production livestock grazing, meaning grazing leases were intended to be 0:57:35.120 --> 0:57:39.200 used to produce a food product, and if you have 0:57:39.280 --> 0:57:44.800 a conservation herds, that's outside of the intention of grazing leases. However, 0:57:45.080 --> 0:57:49.120 this intention was never adequately codified by law. It's an 0:57:49.120 --> 0:57:55.280 interpretation of past intention. So the state fought them by 0:57:55.360 --> 0:57:59.120 just slow walking their permits. Okay, while all this is 0:57:59.160 --> 0:58:01.080 going on, they've had all these different debates. At one 0:58:01.120 --> 0:58:04.760 point the state says, well, we can't do it right 0:58:04.760 --> 0:58:10.360 now because our state land order borders BLM land and 0:58:10.440 --> 0:58:13.520 we need to hear from the BLM what they think 0:58:13.560 --> 0:58:18.880 about these dastardly buffalo grazing BLM land. BLM comes back 0:58:19.760 --> 0:58:22.560 at the time. They come back and says, well, nothing 0:58:22.600 --> 0:58:26.959 bad happens. It's kind of a non issue. So rather 0:58:27.000 --> 0:58:29.640 than the state than saying, okay, we've heard from the BLM, 0:58:29.960 --> 0:58:32.000 they say it's not a problem. We'll accept that. No, 0:58:32.080 --> 0:58:34.600 they go, we're going to appeal your decision. That is 0:58:34.640 --> 0:58:38.240 not a big problem. Then the state gets into this 0:58:38.320 --> 0:58:42.720 kind of goofy debate. They start obfuscating what their objectives are. 0:58:42.760 --> 0:58:45.240 They get into this goofy debate about whether one bison 0:58:45.320 --> 0:58:50.360 actually equals one cow. Okay, Now, Montana State University has 0:58:51.320 --> 0:58:54.520 research suggesting that you can few there an equivalent. See 0:58:54.520 --> 0:58:56.439 if you put a buffalo onto grass it's the same 0:58:56.440 --> 0:59:01.160 as putting a cow onto grass, okay. And since the 0:59:01.200 --> 0:59:06.360 state sets the stocking ray shows anyways, they can say 0:59:06.360 --> 0:59:09.240 how many are permitted to be out there, but that's 0:59:09.400 --> 0:59:12.000 not what they're after. They just don't want them out there. 0:59:13.240 --> 0:59:14.960 And then they put out this thing like, hey, we're 0:59:14.960 --> 0:59:17.919 not trying to obstruct buffalo being on the ground. It's 0:59:17.920 --> 0:59:21.080 just we're just trying to protect the grasslands. And it 0:59:21.200 --> 0:59:23.480 kind of gets in this thing like omet so you're 0:59:23.520 --> 0:59:26.400 trying to prevent the West from turning back into that 0:59:26.480 --> 0:59:29.360 real dump that it was back when thirty million buffalo 0:59:29.360 --> 0:59:32.960 were grazing around and vast herds of elk occupied the 0:59:32.960 --> 0:59:36.200 American Great Plains, and like Lewis and Clark were staggered 0:59:36.200 --> 0:59:39.640 by the abundance of wildlife, and whole cultures were existing 0:59:39.680 --> 0:59:42.400 off of this wildlife for ten thousand years. Like, let's 0:59:42.440 --> 0:59:49.160 not revisit that shit show, right, that's the argument. Finally, 0:59:50.440 --> 0:59:53.800 the Supreme Court says, you gotta deal with these people's permit. 0:59:55.240 --> 0:59:58.600 So then the State Land Board comes and directs the 0:59:58.640 --> 1:00:03.800 Montana Department of Natural Resources and Conservation saying, don't renew 1:00:04.160 --> 1:00:09.680 buffalo leases, don't give out buffalo leases. Just to they 1:00:09.920 --> 1:00:12.080 change the rules. Okay, they're saying it has to be 1:00:12.080 --> 1:00:17.680 production agriculture. So America Prairie takes them to court and 1:00:17.800 --> 1:00:21.400 a judge just puts in an injunction. No, you think 1:00:21.440 --> 1:00:24.440 I forgot to mention. Meanwhile, America Prairie canceled all their 1:00:24.480 --> 1:00:26.720 public hunts. They do public raffle hunts. They had to 1:00:26.720 --> 1:00:28.959 cancel all their hunts because of this whole shit show 1:00:29.000 --> 1:00:29.360 going on. 1:00:29.520 --> 1:00:30.280 For bison. 1:00:31.000 --> 1:00:34.760 They canceled their public buffalo hunts. They do buffalo hunts 1:00:34.800 --> 1:00:38.440 for veterans. They canceled it because of all this uncertainty 1:00:38.440 --> 1:00:44.440 about their hurt. They want an injunction, but to me, 1:00:44.480 --> 1:00:51.000 it feels very tenuous. Their argument is that the that 1:00:51.080 --> 1:00:56.360 the Land Board and the d d NRC didn't do 1:00:56.480 --> 1:01:00.720 the normal rule making process before changing the rule. So 1:01:00.760 --> 1:01:02.360 we're saying you didn't you know, you didn't open it 1:01:02.440 --> 1:01:05.000 up for public content and all that, And so the 1:01:05.080 --> 1:01:06.880 judge put an injunction and says they don't need to 1:01:06.920 --> 1:01:09.600 clear their animals out yet. It's a it's a very 1:01:09.760 --> 1:01:16.840 minor victory. But like I said, it has a very tenuous, 1:01:16.880 --> 1:01:18.840 a very tenuous feel to me. It is not like 1:01:18.880 --> 1:01:22.200 a conclusive finding. It's just an injunction on something while 1:01:22.240 --> 1:01:26.160 something else gets sorted out. The federal land thing which 1:01:26.200 --> 1:01:31.000 still lingers. That all hinges on the intent and definition 1:01:31.040 --> 1:01:33.960 of something called the Tailor Grazing Act. But again, the 1:01:34.000 --> 1:01:36.200 Federal BLM part of this is a whole other story. 1:01:36.480 --> 1:01:39.200 The state and the Feds are tag team and this 1:01:39.320 --> 1:01:44.400 organization around their buffalo herd. What's funny about this, the 1:01:44.440 --> 1:01:48.800 irony of this is a lot of this is taking 1:01:48.840 --> 1:01:54.080 place against the backdrop of all this hoopla about the 1:01:54.080 --> 1:01:59.160 Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library opening up in Medora, North Dakota, 1:01:59.280 --> 1:02:01.960 and they tie the opening of the library for the 1:02:02.040 --> 1:02:05.600 July fourth celebrations of our two hundred and fiftieth anniversary. 1:02:06.680 --> 1:02:11.680 All these political figures converge on North Dakota for the 1:02:11.720 --> 1:02:16.200 opening of the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library over July for 1:02:16.280 --> 1:02:21.240 a weekend because the political figures all want to align 1:02:21.360 --> 1:02:26.960 themselves with the vision and mission of President Theodore Roosevelt. 1:02:27.640 --> 1:02:32.920 What is that legacy? Tr is a It's like TR 1:02:33.240 --> 1:02:39.040 just is a conservation president people that when people think 1:02:39.040 --> 1:02:41.840 of tr today, they don't think, they don't think about 1:02:41.920 --> 1:02:44.880 him storming San Juan Hill. They don't think about him 1:02:44.920 --> 1:02:48.960 being an advocate of Panama Canal. He's a conservation president. 1:02:49.240 --> 1:02:52.400 I'm on the board of the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. 1:02:53.080 --> 1:02:55.280 When people hear that, they don't think I'm talking about 1:02:55.320 --> 1:03:00.280 conserving Panama. The guy is a conservation president. 1:03:00.320 --> 1:03:01.720 The conservation president. 1:03:02.280 --> 1:03:04.800 The just let me do it like a little year 1:03:04.800 --> 1:03:08.200 by year run through on an issue. In December nineteen 1:03:08.200 --> 1:03:12.920 oh four, President Roosevelt urged Congress to authorize that the 1:03:12.920 --> 1:03:17.840 government set aside portions of forest reserves as refuges for bison. 1:03:20.600 --> 1:03:26.560 Nineteen oh five, in his annual Message to Congress, Theodore 1:03:26.640 --> 1:03:30.680 Roosevelt described the buffalo as the most characteristic animal of 1:03:30.720 --> 1:03:34.360 the Western plains and addressed the importance of the remaining 1:03:34.400 --> 1:03:39.920 small herds. He also acknowledged the economic advantages associated with 1:03:40.000 --> 1:03:45.240 the value of the buffalo herd. He recognized Wichita Reserve 1:03:45.240 --> 1:03:48.560 in Oklahoma as a forest reserve that could aid in 1:03:48.600 --> 1:03:54.040 buffalo preservation. The next year, he becomes the honorary president 1:03:54.080 --> 1:03:58.160 of the American Bison Society. The next year, we're now 1:03:58.200 --> 1:04:02.160 in nineteen oh six, Rosevel we congratulated Senator John F. 1:04:02.320 --> 1:04:06.880 Lacey of the of Lacy Act, Infamacy of Lacy Act 1:04:06.920 --> 1:04:13.760 Fame not Infamous Fame congratulated Lacey forgetting the Senate Committee 1:04:13.800 --> 1:04:18.120 on Agriculture to order an amendment to an appropriation bill 1:04:18.600 --> 1:04:24.240 that approved money for the Wichita Reserve, which would house Buffalo. 1:04:24.880 --> 1:04:31.080 The next year, nineteen oh seven, Roosevelt supported reintroductions of 1:04:31.120 --> 1:04:35.680 Buffalo win Cave National Park the National Bison Range Wichita 1:04:35.760 --> 1:04:41.600 Mountain Reserve. The next year, nineteen oh eight, the American 1:04:41.600 --> 1:04:46.320 Bison Society, of which Theodore Roosevelt is the honorary president, 1:04:47.520 --> 1:04:51.919 successfully petitioned petitioned Congress to pass a bill that would 1:04:52.000 --> 1:04:57.120 establish a permanent bison range in Montana. So there's nineteen 1:04:57.160 --> 1:04:59.840 o four, nineteen oh five, nineteen oh six, nineteen oh seven, 1:05:00.080 --> 1:05:03.400 nineteen oh eight. I could go on and on. So 1:05:03.440 --> 1:05:06.040 when these people are coming there and like and like 1:05:06.680 --> 1:05:09.600 tying themselves to the legacy of Theodore Roosevelt at the 1:05:09.600 --> 1:05:12.440 same time trying to attack the restoration of the animal, 1:05:12.520 --> 1:05:16.800 like what are you tying yourself to? It's because so 1:05:16.880 --> 1:05:19.280 much stuff, so much stuff is just like perform You 1:05:19.320 --> 1:05:21.920 could get the same people in the same room and 1:05:21.960 --> 1:05:24.000 they acting like they're talking about the same thing, but 1:05:24.040 --> 1:05:27.840 they're not talking about the same thing, Like, what are 1:05:27.840 --> 1:05:28.560 they talking about? 1:05:29.440 --> 1:05:31.480 It looks good to stand in front of a portrait 1:05:31.520 --> 1:05:32.360 of tr. 1:05:32.200 --> 1:05:35.880 That's what I always say. Every politician in America would 1:05:36.000 --> 1:05:40.520 like to be favorably compared to Theodore Roosevelt. But what 1:05:40.560 --> 1:05:45.600 the guy wanted is so damn clear. Yep, And they don't. 1:05:46.600 --> 1:05:49.440 It's just maddening. Or are you yannie? 1:05:49.480 --> 1:05:52.200 He's kind of an environmentalist by today's terms. Oh, he 1:05:52.280 --> 1:05:53.800 was a radical radical. 1:05:53.840 --> 1:05:55.800 That's the other thing people don't realize is how much 1:05:55.880 --> 1:06:00.840 people hated that guy for doing all this stuff. They 1:06:00.880 --> 1:06:01.600 hated him. 1:06:01.840 --> 1:06:05.959 Steve would hate him because he liked national parks so much. Yes, yes, 1:06:06.480 --> 1:06:08.240 you'd have disagreed with him back the guy. 1:06:08.160 --> 1:06:11.120 That shot at him had that little booklet in his chest. 1:06:11.200 --> 1:06:12.000 He likes parks. 1:06:12.640 --> 1:06:15.200 No, I'm joking, Yeah, I would disagree with my on Matt. 1:06:15.280 --> 1:06:17.560 I would have done a new show about that. I've 1:06:17.600 --> 1:06:19.440 been like, Teddy, you're misguided. 1:06:19.480 --> 1:06:22.520 You know, the like journey for that. It was just 1:06:22.600 --> 1:06:25.160 folded up speech that saved his life when he was shot. 1:06:25.920 --> 1:06:29.240 It was it was said that that can trace all 1:06:29.280 --> 1:06:32.080 the way back to his early years when he was 1:06:32.120 --> 1:06:35.160 a president and he was really into boxing, to the 1:06:35.200 --> 1:06:37.280 point where those in his cabinet where like, Teddy, you 1:06:37.320 --> 1:06:40.200 can't be boxing with the interns anymore. Like, it's just 1:06:40.240 --> 1:06:42.080 a bad look when you show up in some public 1:06:42.080 --> 1:06:44.840 space and you've got a black eye. So he'd like 1:06:45.000 --> 1:06:49.160 kind of started secretly boxing with people in his universe. 1:06:49.560 --> 1:06:51.680 One and ran with that. But he wasn't boxing. 1:06:53.120 --> 1:06:58.440 Yes, yeah, othery're bad physical contact. Uh, Teddy gets lit up. 1:06:58.480 --> 1:07:01.560 One day, he gets knocked in the head. That messes 1:07:01.600 --> 1:07:05.800 with his vision. He has to start wearing glasses. So 1:07:05.840 --> 1:07:09.640 when he goes to give speeches, now the font is 1:07:09.680 --> 1:07:12.440 so big that he like has to have more paper 1:07:12.480 --> 1:07:16.360 physically to do his speeches. So for that speech, he 1:07:16.440 --> 1:07:18.360 had a lot more pieces of paper. It was wadded 1:07:18.440 --> 1:07:21.400 up in his pocket where he was shot. And so 1:07:21.800 --> 1:07:24.040 like you can go back and say his little underground 1:07:24.080 --> 1:07:26.720 boxing ring saved his life because he had more paper 1:07:26.720 --> 1:07:27.160 in his pocket. 1:07:27.200 --> 1:07:27.760 That's the honest. 1:07:27.800 --> 1:07:30.760 Do you do a thing called mediator experiments. 1:07:30.440 --> 1:07:34.040 Yeah, that's great idea. Yeah, he finished his speech, but he. 1:07:34.040 --> 1:07:36.760 Did put a speech in your pocket. Start cutting loose 1:07:36.800 --> 1:07:43.000 at you speech. Yeah, it was bad ass. It was 1:07:43.640 --> 1:07:45.360 It was bad ass that Trump had to wear with 1:07:45.400 --> 1:07:47.680 all the raises fists. But imagine how bad ass it 1:07:47.840 --> 1:07:49.280 was to finish your speech. 1:07:49.520 --> 1:07:51.400 Yeah, after a dude shot at you. 1:07:51.840 --> 1:07:54.080 Teddy definitely knew that. He's like, oh, look at all 1:07:54.080 --> 1:07:56.240 the points I'm going to win here by doing this 1:07:56.280 --> 1:07:58.520 speech after just getting shot. 1:07:59.000 --> 1:08:03.920 We have to really do some historical digging on you know, 1:08:04.400 --> 1:08:07.840 like powder loads bullet. Yeah, you know, because you can't 1:08:09.280 --> 1:08:10.880 nice acubond and try. 1:08:11.640 --> 1:08:16.240 A couple of years ago, there was a story. I 1:08:16.240 --> 1:08:18.760 think it was a boyfriend girlfriend. We're messing around with that, 1:08:18.840 --> 1:08:20.599 and I think one of them killed the other one 1:08:20.680 --> 1:08:21.559 holding books up. 1:08:22.479 --> 1:08:26.479 We just used like these bean backgrounds shooting books. 1:08:27.080 --> 1:08:27.920 Let's talk about Maine. 1:08:27.960 --> 1:08:29.680 Yeah, we'll get into it. 1:08:29.520 --> 1:08:32.400 Not fat but because I'm not gonna talk about that. 1:08:34.320 --> 1:08:40.480 Yeah, here's a here's a conservation win story. 1:08:41.840 --> 1:08:43.240 Inside Climate News. 1:08:43.640 --> 1:08:45.320 I need to get since we're doing the show all 1:08:45.360 --> 1:08:47.440 the time, I got to get up on my subscriptions. 1:08:47.520 --> 1:08:49.519 You boys must have a lot of subscriptions to all 1:08:49.560 --> 1:08:51.920 these different news uh sources? 1:08:52.080 --> 1:08:52.559 Is that right? 1:08:52.880 --> 1:08:54.639 It's got a lot of people that send me stuff. 1:08:55.520 --> 1:08:57.559 I need more of those people arger cover a couple 1:08:57.560 --> 1:09:01.040 of them, just a couple. Inside Climate News reported that 1:09:01.160 --> 1:09:05.600 because of damn removal. Main's alewives are making a significant comeback, 1:09:06.600 --> 1:09:09.600 And like me twenty four hours ago, you might be like, 1:09:09.680 --> 1:09:10.600 what's an alewife? 1:09:11.040 --> 1:09:11.919 Which is really. 1:09:13.439 --> 1:09:16.040 Yanni? You're from Michigan. How could you not know what? 1:09:16.280 --> 1:09:19.759 How did you pronounce it alewives? Al wives? 1:09:19.800 --> 1:09:22.960 Okay, I thought you said something different early earlier. Well, 1:09:23.000 --> 1:09:24.920 I'll get to why I should know about it. As 1:09:24.920 --> 1:09:30.000 a michigander, It's an anadromous herring averaging twelve inches but 1:09:30.080 --> 1:09:33.600 can be as big as sixteen. Not considered a game fish, 1:09:33.680 --> 1:09:37.040 although some folks smoke them and eat them. Ale wives 1:09:37.080 --> 1:09:39.839 are most famous. This is why I should be embarrassed 1:09:39.840 --> 1:09:41.080 as a michigander, for. 1:09:41.160 --> 1:09:42.760 You embarrassed for not knowing this. 1:09:43.000 --> 1:09:47.040 The welland canal to bypass Niagara Falls and invade the 1:09:47.080 --> 1:09:52.040 Great Lakes, causing the extension extinction of several Cisco species. 1:09:52.400 --> 1:09:55.200 They've also had negative impacts on yellow perch and whitefish 1:09:55.240 --> 1:09:58.320 populations in the Great Lakes. And how they do that 1:09:58.400 --> 1:10:01.120 is that they either outcompete them for the the zoap plankton, 1:10:01.479 --> 1:10:04.160 or they eat the fry of the yellow perch and 1:10:04.600 --> 1:10:08.759 cod and other fish like that. But this isn't about 1:10:08.800 --> 1:10:11.200 how they got famous. Maybe they're gonna get famous because 1:10:11.200 --> 1:10:16.120 of this conservation when because for their native range, which 1:10:16.160 --> 1:10:18.640 is like South Carolina up to Nova Scotia and the 1:10:18.640 --> 1:10:22.360 western Atlantic, they are not doing as well. 1:10:22.439 --> 1:10:23.640 Do you have a picture of that al Wi? 1:10:23.840 --> 1:10:26.960 I just had it on the lakes nearly that big? 1:10:27.439 --> 1:10:27.920 What's that? 1:10:28.200 --> 1:10:29.599 The Great Lakes Ones were small? 1:10:30.000 --> 1:10:31.720 Yeah? Oh they were. Yeah. 1:10:31.760 --> 1:10:34.600 I think it's like a food thing, you know, plankton, Yeah, stuff. 1:10:34.360 --> 1:10:36.120 Like that went on twelve inches man. 1:10:36.040 --> 1:10:38.240 And those those Great Lakes one they do not get 1:10:38.240 --> 1:10:40.639 back to the ocean, right, they're just staying there. 1:10:40.680 --> 1:10:45.840 No, yeah, yeah, there's both populations that just are fresh 1:10:45.840 --> 1:10:47.719 water and then the saltwater. 1:10:47.760 --> 1:10:52.440 They exploded there to the point where they would like there. 1:10:52.439 --> 1:10:58.120 How many would die during temperature changes that that beaches 1:10:58.160 --> 1:11:00.519 would be uninhappy, like people would go to the beat. 1:11:00.680 --> 1:11:04.920 Listen to this old time Old time Southsiders still call 1:11:05.000 --> 1:11:08.040 the little tenants hearings all wives. For those summer days 1:11:08.040 --> 1:11:11.439 in nineteen sixty seven when a billion pounds of the 1:11:11.520 --> 1:11:15.640 dead fish wash up ashore beach goers. 1:11:15.320 --> 1:11:22.440 You know, lots of them. Sounds stinky. Why are alwives 1:11:22.760 --> 1:11:23.839 al wives important? 1:11:23.880 --> 1:11:24.720 Or what do they do with them? 1:11:24.760 --> 1:11:28.599 I guess the most common use, which was interesting, I thought, 1:11:28.720 --> 1:11:31.960 is for bait for lobster fishing. Okay, that's why people 1:11:32.000 --> 1:11:35.160 are like to commercially harvest them. Like I said earlier, 1:11:35.200 --> 1:11:38.799 people do smoke them for human consumption. But really, most importantly, 1:11:38.840 --> 1:11:41.240 I think for all all of us and the stories 1:11:41.280 --> 1:11:44.559 that it's a keystone species that provides food, you know, 1:11:44.800 --> 1:11:48.400 all along through the food chain, and you know it 1:11:48.400 --> 1:11:50.439 provides food for the bigger fish that we like to catch, 1:11:50.479 --> 1:11:53.360 like stripe, bass and cod. 1:11:54.720 --> 1:11:59.280 Did you change my font size, Nate? I don't think so. 1:11:59.720 --> 1:12:02.760 Oh gosh, I'm like Teddy Man. I can't. I can't 1:12:02.760 --> 1:12:04.439 be having this smaller fond size. 1:12:04.439 --> 1:12:04.760 I need. 1:12:04.760 --> 1:12:08.040 I need my readers. Now you can you can zoom 1:12:08.080 --> 1:12:10.639 in on your own. I know, I know. 1:12:12.840 --> 1:12:14.760 This is all staying in Well, your honest is doing that. 1:12:14.800 --> 1:12:16.280 You know why they're called ale wives? 1:12:16.560 --> 1:12:20.599 Yes, well they have are They got a big old 1:12:20.640 --> 1:12:24.200 belly on them and so they were, uh they're they 1:12:24.240 --> 1:12:28.000 were compared to an ale wife, which is basically a 1:12:28.120 --> 1:12:30.280 which is a. 1:12:29.600 --> 1:12:31.920 Portly like a lady drinking too much beer. 1:12:32.120 --> 1:12:34.120 No one that one that would have one that would 1:12:34.200 --> 1:12:37.200 run a a ale. I don't know what you call. 1:12:37.080 --> 1:12:38.759 It's a bartender at a tavern. 1:12:38.880 --> 1:12:41.120 Well, no more than that. Back in the I can 1:12:41.160 --> 1:12:42.400 go way way deep. 1:12:42.800 --> 1:12:45.880 The tavern gave you a little belly. You don't say, 1:12:46.479 --> 1:12:47.080 I'm asking. 1:12:47.720 --> 1:12:50.160 Yeah, I would think so anybody was around. 1:12:50.400 --> 1:12:53.439 So this goes so far back. This goes like the 1:12:53.479 --> 1:12:56.680 first mention of al wife. I think was like thirteen 1:12:56.800 --> 1:13:00.960 hundred something. Back when ale was more were commonly consumed 1:13:01.000 --> 1:13:03.320 than water in a lot of places because it was 1:13:03.400 --> 1:13:04.400 safer to drink it. 1:13:04.560 --> 1:13:08.400 Yeah, people consume like a leader a day on average. 1:13:08.479 --> 1:13:11.719 Right, were scared. The Pilgrims were scared of American water. 1:13:11.840 --> 1:13:13.000 They drank ale for like. 1:13:13.240 --> 1:13:15.760 Every one hundred and forty people. You had to have 1:13:15.840 --> 1:13:18.880 a place that made ale. Back then, it was a 1:13:19.040 --> 1:13:21.000 It was a thing that women did. 1:13:21.240 --> 1:13:25.000 And if a dude owned that and his wife worked there, no, no, no, 1:13:25.040 --> 1:13:26.320 he would develop a beer belly. 1:13:26.479 --> 1:13:26.880 That's the thing. 1:13:27.320 --> 1:13:31.719 It was run by women, and they were called ale wives, 1:13:31.880 --> 1:13:34.200 and they tended to be rotund. 1:13:35.280 --> 1:13:38.920 Holy man, I don't know, that's tough name nomenclature. 1:13:39.960 --> 1:13:43.479 Okay, huge Someday they'll get around to change in that one. 1:13:43.320 --> 1:13:48.000 Man, huge conservation Betsy Ross. 1:13:47.800 --> 1:13:51.120 Or they'll call them like the who's the suffrage person. 1:13:52.920 --> 1:13:59.759 On the oh Anthony, they'll call him like the Susan 1:13:59.760 --> 1:14:02.599 being Anthony because they'll rebrand them because. 1:14:03.880 --> 1:14:09.400 I think go on unprecedented population recovery. The number of 1:14:09.479 --> 1:14:12.800 migraine fish in Benton, Maine jumped from fewer than eight 1:14:12.920 --> 1:14:19.000 hundred eight thirty five years ago, yes, to nine million 1:14:19.640 --> 1:14:20.360 last year. 1:14:21.200 --> 1:14:22.560 That's pretty sweet. 1:14:22.840 --> 1:14:24.760 And that's just their math. I try to figure out 1:14:24.760 --> 1:14:26.120 what percent increase that was when. 1:14:26.000 --> 1:14:27.760 They were real low like that they were just cut 1:14:27.840 --> 1:14:31.320 off from their spawning grounds by dams. 1:14:31.640 --> 1:14:34.559 Yes, exactly, and so they've done all kinds of things 1:14:34.560 --> 1:14:38.800 to help them get back up in there, which I'll 1:14:38.800 --> 1:14:41.320 tell you about in just a second. Like I was saying, 1:14:42.240 --> 1:14:46.680 it brings, you know, nutrients up into the mainland, kind 1:14:46.680 --> 1:14:51.000 of like salmon in Alaska, right, these alewives bring It's 1:14:51.040 --> 1:14:56.519 a vital food source for eagles, seals, otters, and uh yeah, 1:14:56.800 --> 1:14:58.680 just makes the place nutrient rich. 1:14:58.760 --> 1:15:02.559 Want me to hit you with something, please. It's a 1:15:03.080 --> 1:15:07.120 one million, one hundred and twenty four thousand, nine hundred 1:15:07.160 --> 1:15:12.519 percent increase, so base that in my head. It's a lot. 1:15:13.560 --> 1:15:16.480 It's like going from the people in these buildings connected 1:15:16.720 --> 1:15:17.679 to new York City. 1:15:20.240 --> 1:15:23.839 Starting in the seventeen hundreds, the construction of industrial dams 1:15:23.960 --> 1:15:26.559 blocked the fish from swimming upstream to spawned, trapping them 1:15:26.560 --> 1:15:30.840 downstream and causing populations to plummet. Intensive commercial fishing and 1:15:30.880 --> 1:15:34.920 mid twentieth century farther decimated populations, and by nineteen ninety 1:15:34.920 --> 1:15:37.799 four harvests collapsed to a fraction of their historical highs, 1:15:38.080 --> 1:15:42.800 where the federal commercial fishing The FEDS basically put a 1:15:42.800 --> 1:15:47.879 moratorium on fishing form in twenty twelve. So the population 1:15:48.040 --> 1:15:52.240 rebound is driven by removing aging dams or building bypass systems. 1:15:52.760 --> 1:15:55.439 The systems that they do are they do a bunch 1:15:55.439 --> 1:15:59.160 of different things. One is high tech fish elevators were 1:15:59.200 --> 1:16:02.320 literally they basically have just like a channel that kind 1:16:02.320 --> 1:16:03.960 of comes out off the dam and then at the 1:16:04.080 --> 1:16:05.960 end of it there's a bucket and when that bucket 1:16:06.080 --> 1:16:08.840 goes down into the water, it creates a current as 1:16:08.840 --> 1:16:11.559 you can imagine that, it sucks it in and those 1:16:12.320 --> 1:16:15.320 al wives are literally attracted to it and they swim 1:16:15.400 --> 1:16:17.599 right in there. The bucket picks them up, puts them 1:16:17.640 --> 1:16:21.840 into the raceway, and then on they go. Then they 1:16:21.880 --> 1:16:26.280 also do on smaller creeks, they basically just build little 1:16:26.760 --> 1:16:29.559 you know steps, Yeah, where a fish can just jump 1:16:29.640 --> 1:16:31.600 up and go up through the rocks and get on 1:16:31.720 --> 1:16:32.000 up there. 1:16:32.920 --> 1:16:33.400 Let's see. 1:16:33.600 --> 1:16:36.599 Twenty twenty five, Maine saw a booming migration of over 1:16:36.680 --> 1:16:41.880 twenty million ale wives. Unfortunately, in contrast, states south of 1:16:42.000 --> 1:16:47.320 Maine continue to experience declining or depleted populations. Internet says 1:16:47.400 --> 1:16:51.120 likely due to warming oceans and different ocean fishing pressures. 1:16:52.560 --> 1:16:55.120 Maine is one of only five states with federal approval 1:16:55.200 --> 1:16:59.680 for sustainable river herring fisheries, and as of last year, 1:17:00.160 --> 1:17:03.400 five main municipalities have regained the right to harvest locally 1:17:03.520 --> 1:17:05.000 under strict state limits. 1:17:05.200 --> 1:17:06.559 They actually have to right now. 1:17:06.680 --> 1:17:08.280 A lot of people don't like this, but right now 1:17:08.320 --> 1:17:11.839 they have to monitor their fish returns for ten years 1:17:11.920 --> 1:17:14.519 and produce that they have the stocks in these ponds 1:17:14.560 --> 1:17:17.799 where where they do the reproduction like an average return 1:17:17.880 --> 1:17:22.600 over Yeah, until they can start a commercial harvest. My 1:17:22.720 --> 1:17:24.960 big takeaway here was I just thought it was so cool. 1:17:25.000 --> 1:17:26.880 We've heard this over and over on these shows that 1:17:26.920 --> 1:17:30.200 we do, and we hear I think it was. We 1:17:30.280 --> 1:17:34.160 recently had some tribal members from the Northwest on They 1:17:34.240 --> 1:17:37.439 just talked about the wonder that you can achieve from 1:17:37.520 --> 1:17:39.400 nature when you see like I think we were talking 1:17:39.400 --> 1:17:42.720 about the size of some giant chinooks. That was the 1:17:42.920 --> 1:17:45.840 conversation we were having, and I think the same thing here. 1:17:45.880 --> 1:17:48.400 There was a lot of locals that were interviewed that 1:17:48.880 --> 1:17:52.040 can remember like seeing some of these fish swimming up 1:17:52.080 --> 1:17:54.880 you know, these small creeks and Maine as kids, and 1:17:54.920 --> 1:17:56.960 then they went through a period where there were literally 1:17:57.040 --> 1:17:59.840 none and they have you know, put their own hard 1:17:59.840 --> 1:18:02.559 work effort into it, and now they're seeing them return 1:18:02.720 --> 1:18:04.840 and it's pretty cool. And now they're getting to pass 1:18:04.880 --> 1:18:07.360 that on to the next generation. And people just say 1:18:07.400 --> 1:18:09.880 it's like it's an amazing thing to stand there at 1:18:09.920 --> 1:18:12.599 a small oat creek and literally see so many fish 1:18:12.880 --> 1:18:15.000 swinging along where you can just stick your hand in 1:18:15.640 --> 1:18:17.559 and fishfield. 1:18:16.960 --> 1:18:19.320 The points of the resiliency of my nature, if you like, 1:18:19.360 --> 1:18:20.760 give it room to do what it needs to do. 1:18:20.920 --> 1:18:24.240 Yeah, there's something about Maine though, like that state compared 1:18:24.240 --> 1:18:25.880 to a lot of other states when it comes to 1:18:25.960 --> 1:18:28.840 knocking down dams, like they're all about it. I feel 1:18:28.840 --> 1:18:31.280 like they they tend to do it at a higher 1:18:31.360 --> 1:18:32.240 rate than a lot about it. 1:18:32.320 --> 1:18:34.719 Yes, I was talking about this on a run recently 1:18:34.880 --> 1:18:38.360 with the fella and I was telling them I was 1:18:38.479 --> 1:18:40.960 researching for today, and he was saying that this is 1:18:40.960 --> 1:18:44.479 a big thing topic in northern Michigan. We're gonna have 1:18:44.479 --> 1:18:47.479 to probably discuss that at some point. Yeah, because there's 1:18:47.520 --> 1:18:50.360 a lot of people that are enjoying like the pontoon 1:18:51.479 --> 1:18:54.400 boat lake life culture. And when you take that dam out, 1:18:54.880 --> 1:18:57.200 that little reservoir you've been pumping around on might not 1:18:57.280 --> 1:19:00.680 be around anymore. And it's a it's a trick right 1:19:00.720 --> 1:19:04.720 now to try to sell people on saying, hey, the 1:19:04.840 --> 1:19:08.200 river version of this might be as good or better 1:19:08.400 --> 1:19:10.600 than the sure than the reservoir. 1:19:10.720 --> 1:19:13.200 Yeah. We used to pound salmon and steelhead where they'd 1:19:13.240 --> 1:19:15.120 all get backed up on the sixth Street damn on 1:19:15.160 --> 1:19:18.400 the Grand River, And if that wasn't there, it'd be great, 1:19:18.479 --> 1:19:20.679 But then everybody'd have to figure out how to catch 1:19:20.720 --> 1:19:23.480 them when they're not on a roadblock. 1:19:24.400 --> 1:19:25.680 Yeah, did we cover that? 1:19:25.680 --> 1:19:28.320 How they're putting the rocks back in in Grand Rapids 1:19:28.320 --> 1:19:31.439 to put the rapids the rapids back in Grand Rapids? 1:19:31.640 --> 1:19:34.160 Are they tearing the dams out? Yeah? Oh good for them? 1:19:34.479 --> 1:19:35.040 Pretty cool. 1:19:37.400 --> 1:19:41.599 Wales Wales whale strandings have been tracked for over fifty 1:19:41.680 --> 1:19:44.519 years in Washington. The record for grey whales was set 1:19:44.560 --> 1:19:48.200 in twenty nineteen when thirty four of them washed up dead. 1:19:48.960 --> 1:19:52.040 We are only halfway through twenty twenty six and we 1:19:52.120 --> 1:19:55.280 already have thirty of them this year. So the record 1:19:55.320 --> 1:19:57.640 is thirty four. Six months in we have thirty of 1:19:57.680 --> 1:20:00.920 them this year. I talked to John Callum Bokitis, he's 1:20:00.960 --> 1:20:05.080 the founder of the Cascadia Research Collective in Washington, to 1:20:05.120 --> 1:20:07.960 find out why. First, I asked him about twenty nineteen, 1:20:08.200 --> 1:20:12.519 what caused that mass mortality and how did biologists react. 1:20:12.520 --> 1:20:16.839 Then John said that the twenty nineteen hevelt felt normal 1:20:17.200 --> 1:20:20.920 and it really didn't raise any cause for alarm. Biologists 1:20:20.960 --> 1:20:23.880 had seen this before in ninety nine, in nineteen ninety 1:20:24.280 --> 1:20:27.120 and in all three of those cases nineteen ninety, nineteen 1:20:27.200 --> 1:20:31.000 ninety nine, twenty nineteen, they felt as though grey whales 1:20:31.040 --> 1:20:34.200 had approached their global carrying capacity and so this was 1:20:34.280 --> 1:20:37.719 just a natural cycle where they, you know, self reduced. 1:20:38.080 --> 1:20:40.400 And the biologists just said, like, this is what a 1:20:40.479 --> 1:20:42.200 grey whale boom and bus cycle is. 1:20:42.360 --> 1:20:44.840 Can I can I comment on your graph? He's got 1:20:44.840 --> 1:20:49.360 a graph up. One line is strandings. Is that stranding. 1:20:49.400 --> 1:20:51.400 Nope, the global population. 1:20:51.520 --> 1:20:54.439 I read it wrong. Never mind, Sorry, we've got. 1:20:54.360 --> 1:20:58.040 A chart looking at the global population and the calf recruitment. 1:20:58.280 --> 1:21:02.000 Oh but anyway, he said in nineteen ninety, nineteen ninety nine, 1:21:02.040 --> 1:21:03.920 twenty nineteen, they're like, this is actually a good thing. 1:21:04.560 --> 1:21:08.080 You know, the oceans have plenty of gray whales and 1:21:08.160 --> 1:21:12.320 so they're just like naturally having some reduction. As for 1:21:12.400 --> 1:21:15.559 twenty twenty six, biologists don't think this is a normal 1:21:15.600 --> 1:21:17.360 mortality event like the other ones. 1:21:18.000 --> 1:21:18.680 Sixteen to the. 1:21:18.680 --> 1:21:22.200 Whales that have had knee cropsies done, all sixteen were 1:21:22.200 --> 1:21:25.760 determined to be malnourished, and of those sixteen, ten of 1:21:25.800 --> 1:21:29.280 them had blunt force trauma from vessel strikes. So one 1:21:29.320 --> 1:21:32.360 hundred percent of the knee cropsies said the whales were 1:21:32.360 --> 1:21:35.640 starving and sixty three percent said that the whales were 1:21:35.680 --> 1:21:39.160 starving plus struck by a ship. John said that a 1:21:39.200 --> 1:21:41.760 starving whale is a delirious whale, So it's just more 1:21:41.880 --> 1:21:44.400 likely to swim in front of a cargo ship. It's 1:21:44.400 --> 1:21:46.679 a lot like when we talk about CWD with deer. 1:21:46.960 --> 1:21:50.040 The CWD doesn't kill them, it's that that they don't 1:21:50.040 --> 1:21:52.360 have their mental faculties anymore, to the point where they 1:21:52.400 --> 1:21:55.080 wander in front of a semi they walk out in 1:21:55.120 --> 1:21:57.519 front of a hunter. They don't smell a coyote anymore, 1:21:57.560 --> 1:22:01.040 and that's what kills a CWD pop po deer, not 1:22:01.120 --> 1:22:03.800 the CWD itself. It's a similar thing. That's why all 1:22:03.800 --> 1:22:07.760 these starving whales are getting struck. So what's going on 1:22:07.840 --> 1:22:10.320 to cause the whales to starve? John's direct quote was this, 1:22:10.680 --> 1:22:14.599 there has been a profound change in the Arctic. Here's why. 1:22:14.600 --> 1:22:17.360 He says that about ninety five percent of the world's 1:22:17.400 --> 1:22:20.759 grey whales migrate to the Arctic. The other five percent 1:22:20.960 --> 1:22:24.639 are these unique populations that wind up in Russian waters, 1:22:25.080 --> 1:22:27.880 or they stay on the Pacific coast, or they go 1:22:27.920 --> 1:22:31.120 into the Puget Sound. Those ones are called sounders. That 1:22:31.200 --> 1:22:34.800 five percent grey whale population is not currently experiencing the 1:22:34.840 --> 1:22:38.719 mass die off. The biologists who observe that five percent 1:22:38.840 --> 1:22:41.040 say that they're doing just fine. It's the ninety five 1:22:41.080 --> 1:22:44.520 percent that are going to the Arctic waters that are struggling. 1:22:45.040 --> 1:22:47.439 John said, clearly there's been some sort of collapse in 1:22:47.439 --> 1:22:50.639 the food in the Arctic. The grey whales they feed 1:22:50.640 --> 1:22:52.920 by rolling around on the bottom and they scoop up 1:22:52.920 --> 1:22:54.599 a bunch of mud and they fill throughout the tiny 1:22:54.640 --> 1:22:57.920 shrimp in the worms. And he pointed out it's a 1:22:58.080 --> 1:23:01.320 statistical fact that the Arctic is heating up faster than 1:23:01.360 --> 1:23:04.160 any place else in the world. Loses ten percent of 1:23:04.200 --> 1:23:08.519 its floating sea ice every decade, so obviously there's been 1:23:08.560 --> 1:23:11.839 an impact to the microscopic food that the gray whales 1:23:12.360 --> 1:23:16.160 are feeding on in the Arctic. And now it's like, 1:23:16.200 --> 1:23:18.920 shine some new light maybe on the twenty nineteen population 1:23:19.000 --> 1:23:21.559 to collapse. Maybe this is, you know, a whole decade 1:23:21.640 --> 1:23:25.479 long thing that's happening. Here's some other tidbits from the 1:23:25.520 --> 1:23:29.240 interview with John to believe that about fifteen percent of 1:23:29.280 --> 1:23:31.160 dead whales wash up on the shore. The rest of 1:23:31.160 --> 1:23:34.559 them sink to the bottom. Whale strandings for humpbacks and 1:23:34.680 --> 1:23:37.760 orcs have been totally normal this year. I asked him 1:23:37.800 --> 1:23:40.080 what happens to a dead whale that washes up on shore. 1:23:40.080 --> 1:23:44.080 He said, there's three common solutions. It's buried nearby, it's 1:23:44.120 --> 1:23:46.160 towed out to see where it sinks, or it's just 1:23:46.280 --> 1:23:49.160 left to decompose. I found a juvenile dead hump back 1:23:49.280 --> 1:23:52.479 last year in California. This one was just left there 1:23:52.600 --> 1:23:56.639 to decompose. The smell was so intense on that thing, 1:23:56.720 --> 1:23:58.640 you can smell it from like a mile away. I 1:23:58.680 --> 1:24:01.160 wish I could have just like showed people that smell 1:24:01.280 --> 1:24:03.000 like he to take a whiff of this thing. 1:24:03.000 --> 1:24:06.160 You want to talk some maggots, Well, why didn't you 1:24:06.240 --> 1:24:08.719 just get a little ball jar and take a chunk. 1:24:08.840 --> 1:24:10.960 I don't think I'd be in jail, But that's auction 1:24:11.000 --> 1:24:16.320 of boy smelly whale air. I also I noticed that 1:24:16.360 --> 1:24:18.559 eighty one percent of the dead whales have been male, 1:24:18.800 --> 1:24:20.960 and I asked him if that's normal. He said, no, 1:24:21.160 --> 1:24:24.280 that that's a new phenomenon they're noticing. Asked if he 1:24:24.320 --> 1:24:26.960 had a theory as to why. Here is his hypothesis, 1:24:27.000 --> 1:24:30.840 which has not been tested. Calf reproduction has been very 1:24:30.880 --> 1:24:33.559 low in recent years, and John thinks that maybe some 1:24:33.600 --> 1:24:36.479 of the females are foregoing reproduction due to a lack 1:24:36.520 --> 1:24:40.680 of resources. Therefore, the fields the females are more resilient 1:24:41.160 --> 1:24:43.960 to the current conditions because they're not spending that extra 1:24:44.080 --> 1:24:48.080 energy breeding and carrying a baby and caring for a calf. 1:24:48.680 --> 1:24:51.280 So that's just his initial guests, you know, as to 1:24:51.280 --> 1:24:53.240 why they've been seeing this for the last six months. 1:24:53.640 --> 1:24:56.519 Something else John brought up. The thirty four dead gray 1:24:56.560 --> 1:24:59.800 whales in twenty nineteen was a lot less concerning because 1:25:00.120 --> 1:25:01.880 that time we were just coming off at an all 1:25:01.960 --> 1:25:06.040 time high for their population. So thirty four dead whales 1:25:06.080 --> 1:25:09.200 out of a population of twenty seven thousand is very 1:25:09.240 --> 1:25:11.479 different than if this year, if this pace continues, that'd 1:25:11.520 --> 1:25:14.360 be sixty dead great sixty dead gray whales out of 1:25:14.400 --> 1:25:17.840 a population of seventeen thousand. So just like some really 1:25:18.040 --> 1:25:21.840 problematic numbers there. I asked him what he thinks the 1:25:21.880 --> 1:25:25.360 short long term solution is. Short term, he said, to 1:25:25.360 --> 1:25:28.760 prevent vessel strikes and entanglement and fishing gear because those 1:25:28.760 --> 1:25:31.120 are often happening closer to shore. Just feels like we 1:25:31.160 --> 1:25:35.080 have more control of that thing long term, just like 1:25:35.320 --> 1:25:37.760 helping the grey whales in the Arctic. That probably just 1:25:37.840 --> 1:25:40.960 means with research right now, And John said this. I 1:25:40.960 --> 1:25:43.719 don't know if it's something John has been told from, 1:25:43.920 --> 1:25:45.760 you know, the federal government, or if it's just like 1:25:45.840 --> 1:25:48.639 a known thing among biologists, but he said that if 1:25:48.680 --> 1:25:52.920 you're like funding ask mentions climate change, that it's just 1:25:52.960 --> 1:25:54.840 like got no chance of getting off the ground. 1:25:54.920 --> 1:25:58.720 Yeah, what's funny though, is four years ago, if it 1:25:58.760 --> 1:26:01.720 didn't mention climate change, had no chance. Yeah. So John, 1:26:01.840 --> 1:26:04.080 four years ago, you had to take your research and 1:26:04.120 --> 1:26:06.240 make it about climate change, or else you'd never get 1:26:06.240 --> 1:26:07.040 your research done. 1:26:07.400 --> 1:26:09.000 So for this as people would just. 1:26:09.240 --> 1:26:15.200 And I know many researchers, you would take what you're doing, yeah, 1:26:15.240 --> 1:26:19.280 and just impose a climate spin on it. Even to 1:26:19.280 --> 1:26:21.160 the point of, let's say you were just trying to 1:26:21.160 --> 1:26:24.639 work in public lands acquisition, you would need to say, 1:26:24.840 --> 1:26:30.560 as the earthworms, right, and as stress from climate change increases, 1:26:31.240 --> 1:26:35.559 people will need more outlets. Yeah, how will they find 1:26:35.640 --> 1:26:41.280 relaxation on public lands? Therefore, as a climate mitigation plan, 1:26:41.560 --> 1:26:43.600 we would like to create more public lands. You have 1:26:43.680 --> 1:26:45.880 to play this dumb game. Now, you just go back 1:26:45.920 --> 1:26:47.720 in and take it out and just keep doing the 1:26:47.760 --> 1:26:48.879 work you're doing. Yeah. 1:26:48.920 --> 1:26:50.599 The problem is, John says, if you want to study 1:26:50.640 --> 1:26:53.599 grey whales in the Arctic, it's impossible not to mention 1:26:53.640 --> 1:26:55.960 climate change. I find a way for the next two years, 1:26:56.360 --> 1:26:58.760 you know, probably just not happening for them. Last thing, 1:26:58.800 --> 1:27:02.320 I asked, what you think the Macas tribe request to 1:27:02.400 --> 1:27:05.040 hunt gray whales. Here's a brief timeline, so you're up 1:27:05.040 --> 1:27:08.479 to speed. The nineteen twenties, the Macaw tribe quits whaling 1:27:08.520 --> 1:27:12.360 because populations are so low. Nineteen seventy gray whales low. 1:27:13.400 --> 1:27:15.439 I couldn't find that number. I don't know if they 1:27:15.479 --> 1:27:18.479 even have one that exists. It's not just like a guess. 1:27:18.720 --> 1:27:21.840 Nineteen seventy gray whales are put on the endangered species list. 1:27:22.320 --> 1:27:23.240 Nineteen ninety four. 1:27:23.360 --> 1:27:24.040 What population. 1:27:24.479 --> 1:27:25.720 I don't have the answer for you there. 1:27:25.960 --> 1:27:26.840 It'sn't real let down. 1:27:27.000 --> 1:27:30.040 Nineteen ninety four. Grey whales are removed from the endangered 1:27:30.080 --> 1:27:33.320 species list nineteen ninety five. Don't have the popular list 1:27:33.560 --> 1:27:36.240 nineteen ninety four, well, actually the chart probably does. Nineteen 1:27:36.320 --> 1:27:38.360 ninety five, so this is one year after they're after 1:27:38.439 --> 1:27:41.920 off the endangered species list, the Macaw tribe notifies the 1:27:41.920 --> 1:27:44.639 government that they want to start whaling again. 1:27:44.720 --> 1:27:46.960 Oh whale, I don't. 1:27:46.800 --> 1:27:47.800 Know if that was the number. 1:27:47.920 --> 1:27:48.320 We get to. 1:27:48.400 --> 1:27:51.840 Nineteen ninety nine, the tribe kills one gray whale on 1:27:52.000 --> 1:27:54.600 an approved hunt. This is a picture of one of 1:27:54.600 --> 1:27:58.479 the harpoonists pursuing a whale at the time, So they 1:27:58.520 --> 1:28:01.599 do kill one that year. That brings us to today. 1:28:01.720 --> 1:28:03.759 The tribe has not been given the green lights since, 1:28:03.880 --> 1:28:06.360 and the case is sat in limbo for twenty six years. 1:28:06.479 --> 1:28:08.800 So they killed one gray whale in nineteen ninety nine, 1:28:09.240 --> 1:28:10.720 have not killed one since. 1:28:10.720 --> 1:28:14.920 The at that point, they're Historically the caring capacity was 1:28:14.920 --> 1:28:18.080 about twenty five hundred grey whales and they sit now 1:28:18.160 --> 1:28:22.240 on thousand, twenty five hundred, okay, and then the optimum 1:28:22.280 --> 1:28:24.599 sustainable populations about thirteen hundred. 1:28:25.920 --> 1:28:27.280 That doesn't think you're missing a zero. 1:28:27.720 --> 1:28:30.080 Something's missing looks like a specific grey. 1:28:29.880 --> 1:28:33.120 Whale population versus Western Wales global one. 1:28:33.160 --> 1:28:35.760 Yeah, we have some maca coming up the show to 1:28:35.800 --> 1:28:37.559 talk about their whale. They're coming out up on an 1:28:37.600 --> 1:28:39.280 upcoming show to talk about whaling. 1:28:42.120 --> 1:28:46.280 How many have stranded thirty four, No, thirty this year. 1:28:46.360 --> 1:28:49.200 Yeah, this tribe killing oh whale doesn't matter. 1:28:49.400 --> 1:28:51.439 So I I That's what I'm asking John about. They've 1:28:51.520 --> 1:28:54.200 killed one since nineteen ninety nine. The government has not 1:28:54.240 --> 1:28:56.960 given them the green lights. Since John is fully on 1:28:57.000 --> 1:29:00.280 board with the McCaw tribe hunting, he cited this it's 1:29:00.320 --> 1:29:03.439 the only treaty between the United States and a native 1:29:03.479 --> 1:29:08.080 tribe that specifically mentions the right to hunt whales and seals, 1:29:08.360 --> 1:29:10.800 and it was signed back in eighteen fifty five. Therefore, 1:29:10.880 --> 1:29:13.320 John feels we should honor that as the only treaty 1:29:13.479 --> 1:29:16.400 that has that specific language. Here's a direct quote from 1:29:16.479 --> 1:29:19.639 Article four of the treaty. The right of taking fish 1:29:19.760 --> 1:29:23.759 and of whaling or ceiling at usual and accustomed grounds 1:29:23.800 --> 1:29:28.800 and stations is further secured to said Indians. So John 1:29:28.840 --> 1:29:31.759 said he's also seen the management plan that the Macaw 1:29:31.840 --> 1:29:34.120 tribe has for the gray whales. He said he feels 1:29:34.120 --> 1:29:37.599 as though it's responsible and it makes reasonable requests regarding harvest, 1:29:38.120 --> 1:29:40.439 So if they want to go kill one tomorrow, he's 1:29:40.439 --> 1:29:41.000 cool with it. 1:29:41.280 --> 1:29:44.320 The only thing I'd have to know here I would 1:29:44.360 --> 1:29:48.280 want to see. I would love to see a century's 1:29:48.400 --> 1:29:54.360 worth of population dynamic information, sure, because what I don't know, 1:29:54.479 --> 1:29:57.760 and I don't know if anybody knows this is if 1:29:57.800 --> 1:30:00.479 you look at over one hundred years, how dynam is 1:30:00.479 --> 1:30:05.280 this population and how unusual is the trough? Right? And 1:30:05.320 --> 1:30:07.760 if they're in a population trough right now? Are they 1:30:07.840 --> 1:30:10.640 in this trough every thirty years? Are they in this 1:30:10.680 --> 1:30:13.559 trough every century? Have they never been in this trough? 1:30:14.160 --> 1:30:22.280 What I'm seeing is Pacific grey whale population lowest populations 1:30:22.439 --> 1:30:26.880 thirteen thousand whales, lowest population level since the early nineteen seventies. 1:30:27.040 --> 1:30:30.439 Okay, so we'll see in the fifty years of tracking. 1:30:31.120 --> 1:30:33.240 He feels as though this is like the most serious 1:30:33.280 --> 1:30:35.679 it's gotten for the grey whales. 1:30:35.720 --> 1:30:36.439 Not good news. 1:30:36.600 --> 1:30:39.720 What's interesting is like in ninety nine when they did this, 1:30:40.320 --> 1:30:43.840 it was huge public backlash is insane. It's become so 1:30:44.000 --> 1:30:47.320 much more tolerated. Which is the only thing I can 1:30:47.360 --> 1:30:49.400 think of in the hunting world that people are now 1:30:49.720 --> 1:30:52.840 more excited about today than they were twenty five years ago. 1:30:52.920 --> 1:30:57.280 You know, the grey whale strandings they could stop and 1:30:57.360 --> 1:30:59.120 like you know, maybe thirty is the number they sit 1:30:59.240 --> 1:31:00.439 on for the rest of the year, and then all 1:31:00.439 --> 1:31:02.599 of a sudden, it's not so alarming, but it doesn't 1:31:02.600 --> 1:31:04.800 seem likely. If that trend continues, this is going to 1:31:04.840 --> 1:31:08.680 be like a real, like global topic. Politicians are going 1:31:08.760 --> 1:31:09.400 to talk about this. 1:31:09.520 --> 1:31:12.760 Well, they'll be back to being the next time there's 1:31:13.040 --> 1:31:16.280 the next democratic administration comes in and they'll be reconsidering 1:31:16.360 --> 1:31:18.080 them for endangered species at connections. 1:31:19.479 --> 1:31:26.840 Ain't gonna happ now tell you that, thanks Spencer, so. 1:31:26.960 --> 1:31:32.360 Wolves eat cows crazy can't be true. 1:31:32.560 --> 1:31:35.280 It is little baby cows or big cows. 1:31:35.040 --> 1:31:38.360 Primarily baby cows. On average between three hundred and six 1:31:38.400 --> 1:31:42.240 hundred pounds. Okay, so for almost one hundred years there 1:31:42.240 --> 1:31:45.400 were no wild wolves in California. Today there's about ninety 1:31:45.479 --> 1:31:49.360 individuals in twelve packs, and new genetic testing that came 1:31:49.360 --> 1:31:52.639 out just the other day shows exactly what they're eating 1:31:52.960 --> 1:31:56.320 and it's mostly cows. If you want to pull up 1:31:56.360 --> 1:31:59.000 that map pill. This just gives an idea of where 1:31:59.000 --> 1:32:02.200 the study is going on. We're going to talk about 1:32:02.240 --> 1:32:05.599 the Lassen pack as well as the Harvey pack. 1:32:05.720 --> 1:32:07.760 What pins are we looking at here? That just that 1:32:08.160 --> 1:32:09.439 wolf one? Oh not the test. 1:32:09.479 --> 1:32:11.800 Steve wants to know about the ten. That's where I 1:32:11.800 --> 1:32:13.400 camped for sheep show last year. 1:32:13.479 --> 1:32:18.879 Okay, I'm with you anyhow. 1:32:19.800 --> 1:32:22.400 So last and Pack trickled in in twenty eleven, naturally 1:32:22.439 --> 1:32:27.080 from Oregon, formerly identifying twenty sixteen as the first breeding 1:32:27.160 --> 1:32:29.840 pair at the time of the study. Here in twenty 1:32:29.840 --> 1:32:32.600 twenty three and twenty twenty four, there's fifty individuals and 1:32:32.640 --> 1:32:36.639 about six packs. And as I've become the scat study 1:32:36.760 --> 1:32:41.360 guy around these parts, this study is a scat pickup. 1:32:42.520 --> 1:32:44.840 It covers, like I said, Last and Harvey packs, which 1:32:44.960 --> 1:32:48.040 covered is about twenty wolves through the summers of twenty 1:32:48.040 --> 1:32:50.479 twenty two and twenty twenty three, which is defined by 1:32:50.560 --> 1:32:54.200 June through October because of the overlap with grazing on 1:32:54.320 --> 1:32:59.519 public land. And in this study there were eighty six 1:32:59.560 --> 1:33:03.640 percent of the SCAP samples picked up had cataly in them, 1:33:03.680 --> 1:33:06.519 compared to in the teens and twenties for mule deer 1:33:06.640 --> 1:33:08.160 or any other wild man. 1:33:08.760 --> 1:33:11.880 But I got so many dude questions. But keep going late, No, 1:33:11.960 --> 1:33:18.000 la bammy, We'll keep going. Is it embryo like are 1:33:18.040 --> 1:33:20.439 they is it after birth? No, we'll talk. Yeah, we'll 1:33:20.439 --> 1:33:20.840 talk about it. 1:33:20.840 --> 1:33:21.080 Okay. 1:33:22.080 --> 1:33:25.719 This scat pickup method, as opposed to the iguano method 1:33:25.720 --> 1:33:28.040 that was just purely counting, they. 1:33:27.920 --> 1:33:30.880 Did a very very rigorous. 1:33:30.880 --> 1:33:36.280 Extremely scientific methods, the first being mitochondrial sequencing to confirm 1:33:36.320 --> 1:33:41.719 the species that was eaten, micro satellite genotyping which confirms 1:33:41.720 --> 1:33:46.439 the identity of individual wolves, and DNA metabor coding to 1:33:46.560 --> 1:33:50.439 identify the prey DNA in that scap. And then the 1:33:50.479 --> 1:33:53.320 researchers through those methods were able to measure the exact 1:33:53.520 --> 1:33:56.639 the biomass of what was actually eaten, so they could 1:33:56.680 --> 1:34:01.960 tell in this scat eighty percent of that is cattle, 1:34:02.720 --> 1:34:05.000 even though there might be seven different things that are 1:34:05.120 --> 1:34:07.599 that are in that in that, and so it's not 1:34:07.760 --> 1:34:11.280 just how often a prey showed up, it's relatively how 1:34:11.360 --> 1:34:13.960 much that prey was eaten. And then through that so. 1:34:13.920 --> 1:34:16.799 They can tell you how many pounds of meat roughly. 1:34:16.880 --> 1:34:19.360 Yeah, it's it's pretty insane, and I could not get 1:34:19.320 --> 1:34:21.200 into the specifics of how it works, but there's a 1:34:21.360 --> 1:34:24.360 long section about that. And so when you when you 1:34:24.400 --> 1:34:26.360 look into the biomass, which is which is kind of 1:34:26.360 --> 1:34:30.559 what we're talking about, cattle averaged fifty five percent of 1:34:30.560 --> 1:34:34.559 the biomass consumed versus twelve percent of mule deer and 1:34:34.600 --> 1:34:38.639 fifteen percent of small mammals, So they're just chowing on cattle. 1:34:39.200 --> 1:34:44.160 The you cannot determine what's distinguished from predation versus scavenging, 1:34:45.280 --> 1:34:49.120 which which makes the data kind of interesting. But free 1:34:49.200 --> 1:34:52.719 range calcalf operations traditionally have mortality around one or two percent, 1:34:53.200 --> 1:34:56.439 So researcher state it's reasonable to think that a meaningful 1:34:56.479 --> 1:34:59.760 share of this cattle biomass reflects actual kills. 1:34:59.439 --> 1:35:01.960 Not just scavenging. And there are a few that. 1:35:01.800 --> 1:35:04.680 Were confirmed to be actual kills, but generally it's so 1:35:04.760 --> 1:35:06.720 remote and so dispersed you can't figure out what's what's 1:35:06.720 --> 1:35:11.000 the scavenge and what's killed. Then I looked at a 1:35:11.000 --> 1:35:13.479 meta analysis of this of like how does this compare 1:35:13.479 --> 1:35:17.240 in California to wolves worldwide and how they're predating on things, 1:35:17.640 --> 1:35:21.360 and you see that livestock are hit the hardest where 1:35:21.400 --> 1:35:26.240 herds are grazing unattended and small dispersed groups. When when 1:35:26.240 --> 1:35:28.839 you look at the occurrence of this compared to natural 1:35:28.880 --> 1:35:31.799 game or that I should say that the game species 1:35:32.000 --> 1:35:34.599 there actually seems to be a preference towards game species 1:35:34.640 --> 1:35:41.160 as opposed to livestock. But the higher those higher rates 1:35:41.240 --> 1:35:44.640 don't it's not the same when those cattle are dispersed 1:35:45.040 --> 1:35:47.240 and when the prey goes down proportionally. 1:35:47.520 --> 1:35:51.120 Was it. Did you come across anything about like whether 1:35:52.439 --> 1:35:57.480 like introduce populations of wolves or like new emerging populations 1:35:57.479 --> 1:36:00.680 of wolves, like do they prey on livestock more than 1:36:00.760 --> 1:36:02.600 like escablished population. 1:36:02.800 --> 1:36:05.200 Yeah, this idea that like maybe there's these coweaters that 1:36:05.240 --> 1:36:07.639 were brought in that have been been talked to like. 1:36:07.760 --> 1:36:10.280 Or it's just like they go for the easy stuff 1:36:10.280 --> 1:36:12.599 because they're like in a new environment. 1:36:12.680 --> 1:36:16.320 No, I didn't find that specifically. There's definitely a learning 1:36:16.400 --> 1:36:20.639 curve associated with with like prey and a new species. 1:36:20.680 --> 1:36:23.559 It seems that the prey have the learning curve rather 1:36:23.640 --> 1:36:27.280 than the predators. But this meta analysis you look at, 1:36:27.320 --> 1:36:29.840 it looks like two hundred different packs across the world, 1:36:30.120 --> 1:36:32.080 and there's so some of we're going to be introduced, 1:36:32.080 --> 1:36:33.280 some have been there for a long time, and this 1:36:33.320 --> 1:36:37.840 is India, Europe, Us, and there's really not a preference 1:36:37.920 --> 1:36:41.080 for cattle across the board. But when you compare that 1:36:41.120 --> 1:36:44.719 to what's going on in California, they have no other 1:36:44.960 --> 1:36:47.640 forms of ungulates, They have small populations of elk that 1:36:47.800 --> 1:36:50.840 currently their ranges don't overlap a whole ton, and their 1:36:50.920 --> 1:36:53.800 mule deer are in significant decline, So from a peak 1:36:53.840 --> 1:36:55.920 of about a million in nineteen seventy to about five 1:36:56.000 --> 1:36:59.280 hundred thousand today. What it shows is that as prey 1:36:59.479 --> 1:37:04.840 species than free ranging cattle specifically get targeted by these wolves. 1:37:05.840 --> 1:37:08.920 So a problem with that, yeah, is that there weren't 1:37:08.920 --> 1:37:13.000 wolves there in nineteen seventy for the mule deer. Yeah, 1:37:13.080 --> 1:37:15.439 I mean the wolves are just there now. Yeah. So 1:37:16.080 --> 1:37:18.960 for someone to say that wolves have switched from deer 1:37:19.200 --> 1:37:21.840 to cattle in California, they weren't there when there was 1:37:21.880 --> 1:37:22.519 a million deer. 1:37:22.720 --> 1:37:26.160 But in other places there's been there's like there's there's 1:37:26.200 --> 1:37:28.200 a study in India where there's plenty of different. 1:37:27.920 --> 1:37:30.479 Species and see where you see ungulate declines. They pick 1:37:30.560 --> 1:37:33.280 up on cattle. Yeah yeah, yeah, that makes sense to me. 1:37:33.479 --> 1:37:35.080 And if there was no cattle there, they'd pick up 1:37:35.120 --> 1:37:37.200 on whatever's next dogs exactly exactly. 1:37:37.840 --> 1:37:41.280 And so it's like, so what you know, I think 1:37:41.360 --> 1:37:42.920 the big thing I came out of here with is 1:37:43.160 --> 1:37:46.120 there there really isn't a thing of cow eaters. You know, 1:37:46.160 --> 1:37:47.760 that was a big That was a big narrative in 1:37:47.840 --> 1:37:51.480 the in the Colorado introduction. They're gonna eat what's convenient, 1:37:51.800 --> 1:37:53.920 you know, they're gonna eat. They seem to have a 1:37:53.960 --> 1:37:55.120 preference for wild game. 1:37:55.240 --> 1:37:58.400 Wait a minute, Yeah, there's not a thing. There's not 1:37:58.640 --> 1:38:02.120 packs that just like over time it becomes a learned 1:38:02.240 --> 1:38:06.720 behavior that the pack leaders teach the rest of the pack, 1:38:06.840 --> 1:38:08.000 and then it becomes. 1:38:07.640 --> 1:38:10.920 A at larger scale. It only seems to happen when 1:38:10.960 --> 1:38:15.680 praise species are at at are significantly lower than what 1:38:15.720 --> 1:38:18.240 they could be, like the low carrying capacity. So they 1:38:18.360 --> 1:38:20.479 I mean, they'll go hit the cows, they'll go hit 1:38:20.520 --> 1:38:23.559 the cattle, but only when praise species are hurting a. 1:38:23.520 --> 1:38:25.479 Little bit of that feels off to me, but only 1:38:25.560 --> 1:38:27.120 kind of off how. 1:38:27.040 --> 1:38:34.160 So well, like I'll give you an example, like the 1:38:34.200 --> 1:38:36.840 wolves that were introduced in North in the North Park 1:38:36.880 --> 1:38:41.080 area of Colorado that kept hitting cows and cows and cows. 1:38:41.280 --> 1:38:44.360 There's shiploads of elk around there, there's moose around there. 1:38:44.360 --> 1:38:48.880 There's like they're not in a game poor environment, sure, 1:38:48.920 --> 1:38:49.280 you know. 1:38:49.560 --> 1:38:52.720 They're So that's a good thing that you'll hear all 1:38:52.720 --> 1:38:55.200 the time. And I talk to someone who is intimately 1:38:55.240 --> 1:38:58.960 involved with that reintroduction effort, and a lot of that 1:38:59.040 --> 1:39:04.600 report from his perspective was that there were individual landowners 1:39:04.920 --> 1:39:09.280 who were intentionally causing conflict because they didn't like that's 1:39:09.320 --> 1:39:11.400 a big man. 1:39:11.479 --> 1:39:12.719 I know statement. 1:39:12.880 --> 1:39:15.200 And so there's there's two things at plays that There's 1:39:15.680 --> 1:39:19.160 one the reimbursement portion of it, which in Colorado's management 1:39:19.160 --> 1:39:23.000 system was very generous. Like it, you know, it's kind 1:39:23.000 --> 1:39:25.160 of like your climate change things like, oh my cow died, but. 1:39:25.120 --> 1:39:27.599 What one's gonna they're not going to go kill their 1:39:27.640 --> 1:39:28.800 own calf to be like. 1:39:28.800 --> 1:39:30.880 Give me but a cow, a calf might have died, 1:39:30.880 --> 1:39:33.519 and they said wolf did that well. 1:39:33.560 --> 1:39:34.800 But they have investigators. 1:39:35.760 --> 1:39:37.400 But then you can't it's hard to splay. 1:39:37.760 --> 1:39:38.599 I don't want to distract. 1:39:40.520 --> 1:39:43.240 Let's do it. I don't have a total problem with 1:39:43.320 --> 1:39:46.800 I have a because there's there's there's inverse questions. There's 1:39:46.840 --> 1:39:49.960 this thing that wolves when you have when you have 1:39:50.040 --> 1:39:52.880 a early we were talking about buffalo, when you have 1:39:52.920 --> 1:39:55.920 a buffalo population on the ground, there's kind of this 1:39:56.080 --> 1:39:59.080 magic number at which wolves will start to pay attention 1:39:59.200 --> 1:40:02.360 to it. I can't remember what it is. You gotta 1:40:02.400 --> 1:40:03.760 have a thousand of them, or you gotta have two 1:40:03.760 --> 1:40:08.639 thousand of them. At that point the packs will start. 1:40:08.840 --> 1:40:12.080 It's sort of somehow something clicks and it becomes worthwhile 1:40:12.200 --> 1:40:15.240 in their mind to learn to kill it. And once 1:40:15.280 --> 1:40:17.800 they learn to kill it and develop the techniques to 1:40:17.880 --> 1:40:19.679 kill it, that's what the pack likes to hunt. 1:40:21.760 --> 1:40:24.439 It would see again based on a couple of studies, 1:40:24.600 --> 1:40:28.240 but these studies are globally. It seems that that data 1:40:28.320 --> 1:40:31.800 is not born out. It seems that they'll eat what's there. 1:40:32.240 --> 1:40:34.639 It's not like they learn to attack a certain thing. 1:40:35.960 --> 1:40:39.719 Maybe in like localized populations that could happen, but across 1:40:39.720 --> 1:40:41.479 the board you're not seeing it. 1:40:43.439 --> 1:40:44.960 They have a debate about this. Not you and me, 1:40:44.960 --> 1:40:46.920 we should not you should get all over people me, 1:40:47.040 --> 1:40:48.800 but like other people versus other people. 1:40:48.840 --> 1:40:52.040 I've also heard something that the larger a pack gets, 1:40:52.280 --> 1:40:55.439 the more likely it is to turn to live. 1:40:55.600 --> 1:41:00.439 Because it's big and hard to kill. Big, Pa Kyle, 1:41:00.439 --> 1:41:08.240 it's hunt deer. Go on. Just know I'm sitting over 1:41:08.280 --> 1:41:10.920 here skeptical. Okay, well you'll you'll like this. 1:41:11.000 --> 1:41:13.800 Then there's a companion study that's happening at the same 1:41:13.840 --> 1:41:17.800 time with basically the same wolf herd in twenty twenty two, 1:41:18.200 --> 1:41:21.920 and they're measuring the stress response of cattle in this area. 1:41:22.120 --> 1:41:24.839 And so this is getting at the landscape of fear idea. 1:41:24.720 --> 1:41:26.719 Yeah, and I'm getting interested again, yep. 1:41:27.400 --> 1:41:30.360 And basically, if wolves are present, whether or not they're 1:41:30.400 --> 1:41:35.120 actually killing an individual cow, are they impacting the ranchers 1:41:35.200 --> 1:41:39.880 operations because they're less because there's a boarded cattle, because 1:41:39.920 --> 1:41:41.840 they don't lacktight as well because of all the other 1:41:41.840 --> 1:41:45.479 things that cortisol can lead to. So you'll see in 1:41:45.880 --> 1:41:49.280 as you compare these two herds, Traditionally, cortisol levels drop 1:41:49.320 --> 1:41:51.240 as summer temperatures rise. You know, it's like a more 1:41:51.240 --> 1:41:54.799 favorable growing season and the stress goes down, and wolf 1:41:54.800 --> 1:41:59.919 exposed herds, that drop is fifty eight percent weaker. So basically, 1:41:59.920 --> 1:42:02.439 the cattle when wolves are around, they stay stressed out, 1:42:02.640 --> 1:42:03.559 whether they're getting. 1:42:03.320 --> 1:42:04.840 Eaten or not, whether they're getting eaten or not. It's 1:42:04.840 --> 1:42:06.320 so like if you went to your own house and 1:42:06.479 --> 1:42:08.439 scared the hell out of your dog and chases all 1:42:08.479 --> 1:42:11.880 around but never killed it, the dog is gonna suffer. 1:42:13.160 --> 1:42:18.400 Old taste is good, you'll have a red cutter. And 1:42:18.479 --> 1:42:22.439 so that raised cortisol is linked tenuously at this point 1:42:22.479 --> 1:42:27.040 to lower fertility, weakened immunity, disrupted milk, or colosstrum transfer. 1:42:27.800 --> 1:42:31.240 And the takeaway from this researcher is living among wolves 1:42:31.240 --> 1:42:34.120 for cattle is a chronically stressful experience and that could 1:42:34.200 --> 1:42:37.120 ultimately have production related impacts on both the short and 1:42:37.280 --> 1:42:41.479 long term. However, it's yet, it's not proven yet. This 1:42:41.560 --> 1:42:43.240 is an idea that people like to talk about. It 1:42:43.280 --> 1:42:45.800 makes sense just when you think about it, but more 1:42:45.880 --> 1:42:49.040 research is needed to see how much that's going to happen, 1:42:49.320 --> 1:42:52.639 which gets back to the Colorado thing, because you look 1:42:52.640 --> 1:42:55.240 at compensation and how do you prove compensation that my 1:42:55.320 --> 1:42:58.080 cattle are not producing as much because there's a general 1:42:58.439 --> 1:43:03.719 air of fear in this area and different different different regions, 1:43:03.720 --> 1:43:06.840 different countries, different places have looked at that problem in 1:43:06.880 --> 1:43:10.320 different ways because ultimately this conversation like wolves are going 1:43:10.360 --> 1:43:12.600 to come back, we through ballot box biology or just 1:43:12.640 --> 1:43:15.479 walking around, like wolves are going to enter landscapes that 1:43:16.120 --> 1:43:19.720 traditionally have had cows that don't have large predators. And 1:43:19.760 --> 1:43:22.519 so you look at three different types, three different methods. 1:43:22.560 --> 1:43:26.040 There is a soul a pure India which I'm sure 1:43:26.040 --> 1:43:30.920 I pronounced wrong, Wisconsin and then Colorado had basically three 1:43:30.920 --> 1:43:35.160 different ways of compensating these ranchers in India, and they're 1:43:35.200 --> 1:43:38.439 pretty similar, like they're pretty similar agricultural economies and whatnot 1:43:38.439 --> 1:43:42.639 growing cattle or growing livestock, I should say. And India, 1:43:42.640 --> 1:43:44.960 the wolves have always been there, Like people get it, 1:43:45.120 --> 1:43:48.040 they've been there. They're cool with them, and claims are 1:43:48.040 --> 1:43:50.920 managed by the government. They have very low rates of 1:43:51.000 --> 1:43:54.719 claims of livestock predation claims in that area. 1:43:54.760 --> 1:43:56.040 What are they running goats and sheep? 1:43:56.080 --> 1:43:58.599 Yeah, because they're not slaughtering cattle in India. I think 1:43:58.600 --> 1:44:03.040 it's all goats and sheep In Wisconsin. The original funding 1:44:03.080 --> 1:44:08.080 mechanism was donations from pro wolf advocates given two ranchers 1:44:08.439 --> 1:44:12.920 who or I should say agricultural folks who had claims 1:44:12.920 --> 1:44:16.400 of wolf predation. Yep, that method lasted not long. It 1:44:16.479 --> 1:44:18.760 is not the way they do it anymore. And then 1:44:18.760 --> 1:44:21.519 in Colorado's they've introduced wolves. They pulled from the general 1:44:21.560 --> 1:44:25.200 fund and they have a very generous scheme of paying 1:44:25.200 --> 1:44:30.800 out basically predation permits. But it's tough. It's like, how 1:44:30.840 --> 1:44:32.600 do you go about doing this? How do you determine 1:44:32.760 --> 1:44:35.960 did that die by you know whatever, COVID or something 1:44:36.000 --> 1:44:37.080 and got eaten by a wolf. 1:44:37.160 --> 1:44:39.880 Let me save someone at home a mean letter. I'm 1:44:39.880 --> 1:44:42.240 just going to express their opinion now, so they don't 1:44:42.280 --> 1:44:45.080 have to write you a mean letter. If you turn 1:44:45.160 --> 1:44:50.040 out one thousand coles on range, okay, and they're up 1:44:50.040 --> 1:44:52.479 doing your thing, and then the fall comes and you 1:44:52.520 --> 1:44:54.479 go to pull them off range and you count them 1:44:54.560 --> 1:44:56.720 up and you got nine hundred and ninety, you're never 1:44:56.760 --> 1:44:59.680 gonna know what happened to them. So someone's gonna come 1:44:59.720 --> 1:45:03.360 and tell you, like, oh, the wolf mitigation thing, just 1:45:03.400 --> 1:45:07.200 show us like I don't know, I don't know where 1:45:07.240 --> 1:45:11.360 they went. They're just they're gone, right. You can't then 1:45:11.400 --> 1:45:14.200 go like, hey, I'm missing ten and someone's gonna cut 1:45:14.200 --> 1:45:16.880 you a check. Yeah, So that's part of the frustration 1:45:17.320 --> 1:45:18.640 is you got to be there and do like you 1:45:18.680 --> 1:45:19.960 got to be there here it is, it's got this 1:45:20.160 --> 1:45:24.200 tooth mark pattern on it and it leads to I'm 1:45:24.200 --> 1:45:26.639 not saying it's undoable. They lose coles for all kinds 1:45:26.640 --> 1:45:29.400 of reasons, like cows die, they got a way of dying. 1:45:29.640 --> 1:45:31.599 I'm not saying this is the lead cause of death, 1:45:31.640 --> 1:45:34.960 but that is a frustration. Is the it's like it's 1:45:35.000 --> 1:45:38.240 on you, the burdens on you to show what happened 1:45:39.000 --> 1:45:41.519 to get the compensation. So that's one of the pain 1:45:41.600 --> 1:45:44.599 points around compensation. Sure, so someone doesn't need to write 1:45:44.640 --> 1:45:45.480 you that letter. 1:45:45.760 --> 1:45:48.120 Thank you you guys, so that no one has to 1:45:48.160 --> 1:45:54.840 write this letter as well. Common livestock in India includes cattle, buffalo's, goats, sheep, 1:45:54.880 --> 1:45:58.559 and poultry, and India has one of the world's largest 1:45:58.640 --> 1:46:03.680 cattle populations. But according to just quick AI search here 1:46:03.760 --> 1:46:05.840 is that it's that's mostly for the milk. 1:46:06.160 --> 1:46:06.920 Everything else. 1:46:07.200 --> 1:46:10.959 The buffalo's, the goat, sheep, poultry, pigs they eat those. 1:46:13.600 --> 1:46:15.519 Just support tough tough nut. 1:46:15.800 --> 1:46:17.880 I started this thinking I was going to hear all 1:46:17.880 --> 1:46:20.280 about how wolves are evil and their cow eaters. 1:46:21.160 --> 1:46:23.479 It's so complicated. Yeah, you got in over your waiters 1:46:23.520 --> 1:46:26.800 on that. There's a thing that no one, there's a 1:46:26.880 --> 1:46:31.519 thing that just leads to fighting wolves. Wolves. Yeah, you 1:46:31.560 --> 1:46:34.320 know they say, never talk about politics or religion at dinner. 1:46:35.280 --> 1:46:36.440 Don't talk about wolves. 1:46:37.720 --> 1:46:39.960 The water rights is another one. 1:46:41.120 --> 1:46:43.400 We should just stock more elk where these wolves live. 1:46:43.560 --> 1:46:50.480 That's what I'm stud We need healthy ungulate populations. 1:46:51.160 --> 1:46:52.599 At dinner. When you go like, no, I don't want 1:46:52.640 --> 1:46:57.839 to get political, you know, then you say something real political, 1:46:59.280 --> 1:47:01.479 like I don't want to talk about wolves, but tight 1:47:01.640 --> 1:47:07.760 something about wolves. Huh? Is that it? 1:47:08.840 --> 1:47:10.280 I think that's all we got for today. 1:47:10.320 --> 1:47:12.000 That's we're gonna talk about one thing we're not gonna 1:47:12.040 --> 1:47:17.000 talk about anymore. It's about California. Here's one we were 1:47:17.000 --> 1:47:20.280 gonna coll but we're not gonna. In California, there's an 1:47:20.320 --> 1:47:22.680 area where they ban dudes from the peer fish and 1:47:22.760 --> 1:47:25.640 sharks for fear that they'd hook a shark and then 1:47:25.760 --> 1:47:28.040 swim over and bite someone who's swimming. 1:47:29.280 --> 1:47:30.120 That's what they say. 1:47:30.240 --> 1:47:32.280 If I was the mayor, I'd be like, no swimming 1:47:32.920 --> 1:47:36.040 because if a guy's fishing sharks, and his shark's tangled 1:47:36.080 --> 1:47:41.920 up on you. He might lose it. You can read the. 1:47:41.840 --> 1:47:43.920 Mediator dot com We'll see you next week. 1:47:43.960 --> 1:47:45.720 You can read about me do. 1:47:46.080 --> 1:47:48.800 Better than the Mayor and Jaws The Mediator dot com 1:47:48.800 --> 1:47:50.479 slash auction, Go buy something. 1:47:50.840 --> 1:47:54.559 Oh that's right, check out that model cow killers. 1:47:54.680 --> 1:47:54.960 Come on