WEBVTT - INTERVIEW: Kerry Washington Talks New Book, Finding Biological Father, Jamie Foxx's Advice, Scandal + More 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:02.520 Wake that ass up in the morning. 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:08.160 Breakfast Club Morning, everybody in stee j n V. Charlemagne 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:10.320 the God. We are the Breakfast Club. We have Laura 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:12.800 la Rossa our special guest host, and we got a 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:19.960 special guest in the building, La Kerry Washington's welcome. Washington, 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:21.760 congratulating on the new book. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:24.120 Okay, thank you, How are you? 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:27.600 I'm really good? Yeah, Yeah, I'm good. 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:32.680 God Yeah, new book out Thicker than Water. Congratulations. Learned 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:36.000 so much about you with this book. First, maybe it's 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:37.279 just me be it' supid. I didn't know you were 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:38.040 from the Bronx. 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.479 Really, I did not know that. I didn't know you 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:45.080 were from then and born and raised. And my mother 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:47.159 was born in the Bronx. My mother grew up on 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:50.320 Simpson Street and I grew up on Pugsley Avenue course 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:51.400 from Stephen's in high school. 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:52.360 You know what I say. 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:54.120 I say, the craziest people in America come from the 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:55.240 Bronx and all of Florida. 0:00:56.080 --> 0:01:02.800 Why what Why? I agree on Florida, but why the Bronx. 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:06.559 One of the most talented people that come from the Bronx. 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:07.440 That is very true too. 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:09.840 Now, how did you know now the time to write 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:10.480 thinking it was. 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.640 So what I write about in the book is that 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:17.200 a handful of like five years ago, my parents sat 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:21.160 me down and shared with me some new information about 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:25.320 myself that really kind of challenged the way that I 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:28.040 thought about myself, that I thought about my family, turned 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:30.240 my world upside down. And at the time, I had 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:33.080 actually sold another book, Idea, which was based kind of 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:35.039 inspired by the show that I was on, Scandal, and 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:37.399 it was like, these are the ten things that I 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:39.920 learned from Olivia Pope. So that was a really fun, 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:44.080 kind of self reflective but not very deep, deep soul 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.280 searching book. But every time I sat down to write 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:47.880 that book, all I could think about was this new 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:50.280 information I'd been given and how it impacted my family 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:52.960 and my sense of self. And so I wasn't going 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:54.200 to write a book at all. I tried to give 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:56.360 the publisher their money back, but they wouldn't take it. 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:56.880 Wow. 0:01:57.520 --> 0:01:59.360 And then a few years later I was like, I 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:01.520 think I have to at least try to write this. 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:03.240 Book because you said your parents didn't want you to 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:04.800 reveal Yeah. 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:07.320 Yeah, so my my my parents told me that they 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:10.000 were sort of forced to tell me that my dad 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:11.880 is not my biological father. 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:14.560 How did that affect you, because I mean, he's still 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:15.880 your dad. At the end of the day, we seen 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:18.480 the picture, you know, had had. 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:19.880 Jokes on Instagram. 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:22.440 Yeah yeah, So how did that affect anything after you 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:22.960 were told? 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:28.320 So, I think immediately when they told me it was weird, 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:32.840 to be totally honest with you, I felt like excited. 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:37.840 I felt excited and grateful because I had always felt 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:40.360 like there was something going on in my family that 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:42.040 I couldn't put my finger on. But it was like 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:46.880 a dynamic of distance or like there was I just 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:48.640 knew that I didn't know what. I didn't know, but 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.520 I knew that that there was something between my parents 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:53.440 and I. And because I didn't know what it was, 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:57.160 a lot of times I blamed myself for that or 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.519 maybe thought I was crazy for thinking it, maybe thought 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:02.160 maybe I'm just not open enough, like I was always 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:03.880 trying to figure it out. So when they told me, 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.440 it felt like, I don't know, it felt like I 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:09.440 could breathe. It felt like, oh, this is this is 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:12.600 a real opportunity for me to jump into this new 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:17.359 kind of understanding of myself and my life. And you know, 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:19.880 it was it was really exciting. 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:22.120 Did you care because it's you know, I did care. 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:26.400 I did care because I did care partly because I 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.360 felt like, yes, my dad is always going to be 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:33.280 my dad. But the reality is now fifty percent of 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:37.000 my genetics became a big question mark. And that's important, right, 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.440 like in terms of health care, in terms of you know, 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:42.600 in terms of understanding my medical history. But even like 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:46.120 you know, I don't know what I might get, you know, 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:48.920 in the whole nurture versus nature dynamic. There might be 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:52.160 parts of me that I get from this donor, this 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:55.200 sperm donor that I've never known was from that side 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:58.000 of my family. Like I just thought this, I guess 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.640 partly I've I've struggled to feel comfortable in my skin 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:04.120 for most of my life. It's part of why acting 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.880 has kind of saved me a business, because I always 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.800 I would find myself in these characters. I would kind 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:13.320 of grab onto their identities, and there was like a 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:16.720 sense of freedom and wholeness in becoming other people. But 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.320 this felt like an opportunity to try to be comfortable 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:20.159 in my own skin. 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:23.479 When you would ask questions about like just different things, 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.240 like hey, you go to the doctors and they say 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:28.640 you know what illnesses are on your mom. So when 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:31.320 you would ask your dad your mom those questions, how 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:32.200 would they answer it? 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.560 As if my dad was my father. They were going 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.680 to take this to their grave. And I get it. 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:42.760 I totally understand, right, like you, yeah, I think they 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:46.120 they felt like, well, first of all, let me just 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.560 say this, my parents are renegades, right, like a lot 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.640 of us. Now we know people who go to sperm 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:54.719 don or sperm banks, right, it's like very common relatively now, 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:56.800 and you get a whole catalog. You can pick the 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.480 color of the eyes and what Ivy League university they 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:01.279 went to. But when my parents did this in the 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:05.440 mid seventies, nobody was doing this. This was highly experimental, 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:08.000 highly secretive. It was a big risk they were taking. 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:10.720 It wasn't like they had complete health screenings for the donor. 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:12.839 They had no idea who the donor was. They said, 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.200 we asked two things. Let them be healthy. Who knows 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:16.680 what that means at the time, right, but like we 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:18.040 want him to be healthy, and we want him to 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:22.160 be black. Because they wanted this to be a secret. 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.560 So yeah, yeah, there's are you okay? 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.880 Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, Because you know, sometimes we put 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.200 things in these books, and you know, we bear our souls. 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:35.359 Yeah, but then we got to go on these press runs. 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:37.640 We may not be ready to talk about these No. 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:41.680 Yeah, it's interesting because I actually feel like I think 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:43.880 I am a little bit emotional today because it's the 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:48.360 book is really out in the world. But I I 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.000 think I'm having an easier time processing it than a 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:53.120 lot of people because I've been living with it for 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.000 five years, you know, over five years, so and for 0:05:56.080 --> 0:06:03.520 other people it's very new information. But I feel, you know, 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:05.920 every time I talk about it, I feel a little 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:09.599 bit more liberated. I feel a little bit more free. 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.520 I wanted to ask, you know, you know, you talk 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.680 about your eating disorder and dealing with how you felt 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.479 about your body and your looks. I wanted to know 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:20.680 what got you in that point. And the reason I 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.560 ask is I have four daughters. Charlemagne has four daughters, 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.240 and I always want to make sure I try my 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:28.960 hardest to give my daughter as many compliments as possible, right, 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:30.640 because you never want them to feel that way, But 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:32.800 sometimes I don't think that matters because it's also how 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.320 they look at themselves. So what got you to that 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:37.960 point where you didn't like what you've seen in the mirror, 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:39.479 or something that you weren't happy about. 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:41.840 It's such a good question. I have daughters too, right, 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:44.560 So it's something that I think about a lot. I 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:49.120 think that the food, it's like any other kind of 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:52.360 addictive behavior. It's not about the drug. It's not really 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:57.320 about the food or even really about the relationship with body. 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:01.120 It came from a compulsion to try to fix my 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:04.600 came out from a compulsion of trying to escape the 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:09.640 feelings I was having or numb them. And so I 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:13.360 think for me, it was this sense that I write 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:15.000 about in the book of feeling like I had to 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:20.840 be perfect, like I had to be better than who 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:24.240 I was in order to be deserving of love. And 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.800 some of that came from like why do I have 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.440 this weird dynamic with my parents? Like what's going on? 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:34.480 Maybe if I was better, prettier, smarter, thinner, then I 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.240 might be more lovable. So I don't even you know, 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:39.520 I mean, I do think it's important to teach our 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:43.200 kids to make healthy choices when it comes to exercise, 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.000 to make healthy choices when it comes to food, to 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.200 teach them about nutrition, about how food works in the 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:51.160 body all that's important. But I think helping a kid 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:56.720 to feel unconditionally loved, to feel safe physically and emotionally 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:00.000 like those and to help a child have their fears 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:02.480 and process their feelings and not feel like they need 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.440 to escape their feelings, those are the things that I 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:08.600 think help us have the tools to live in life 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:13.160 on life's terms, as opposed to grabbing at addictive behaviors 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:14.280 to escape life. 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:17.200 Are you? Are you your parents only a child? 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.800 I am Also you went through this like kind of alone, 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:21.760 even though they were still there. 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.560 Yeah, there was a lot of pressure. Yeah. I mean, 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:26.320 I think that was one of the big things for 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:28.280 me is when I was in college and the food 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.040 stuff got really bad and I just was that was 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:34.640 really the first time that I started to ask for help, 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:36.880 because I think up until that time, I felt like 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:39.760 self reliance is the point, like you're supposed to kind 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.760 of go it alone, be strong, get through life. And 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.120 that was the turning point for me where I was like, 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:46.760 I think I need some help. 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:48.880 What did you experts? Did you ask your parents? 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:52.040 I'm trying to think. I think I asked an aunt 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.200 what I called an aunt of mine first and was like, 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:58.240 I think I have a really messed up relationship with food. 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:01.599 But the thing what's hard about eating disorders is a 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.280 lot of people will tell you like, oh, everybody eats 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:06.679 when they're depressed, or everybody goes to the gym when 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:10.280 they're upset. That's okay. But I knew, like to the level, 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:12.760 to the extent that I was in that behavior, that 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:14.960 it was self destructive. I knew this wasn't just like 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:17.640 a cute kids on a sitcom eating a little ice 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.120 cream because they were sad, like this was. This was 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.959 a different level of pain. 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:25.320 What was your go to anything? 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:27.199 Anything fast food? 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:29.040 Yeah, I guess I was in college, so it was 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.319 like normal stuff you can get your hands on in college, 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:35.679 like pizza. But really, again, like it wasn't about the food, right, 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.079 it was about the numbing and. 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:39.640 The why not drugs? Alcohol? 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.040 Good question, that's a good question. There's time, there's time 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:47.840 for me. I can go there, Lord have mercy. I 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.360 think you know, it's funny. It's like I couldn't be 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:53.680 a perfectionist and do the drugs and alcohol thing. Like 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:56.800 I still the thing about the eating disorder and the exercises, Yes, 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:58.360 I could hide it so I could still be a 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:02.480 great student, maintain my be seen as a perfectionist, Still 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:04.840 have the lead in all the plays in college, Still 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:07.760 come across as a good girl, but secretly have this behavior. 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:10.040 And I knew, you know, I also have a lot 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:13.240 of alcoholism in my family. So I had this sense 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:15.040 that if I went there, I would lose the good 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:16.920 girl image. I could do this other thing, and it 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.800 actually kind of led me to the good girl image. 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:22.640 Now I'm jumping all around because I want people to 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:24.199 read the book Thinking and Water. But you talked about, 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:28.120 you know, always driving for perfection. Yeah, but you said 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:31.040 Jamie Fox taught you a very valuable lesson. 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:32.800 Yeah, can you explain what that was? 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.800 Yeah, I think Jamie. I mean, I've been really lucky. 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:37.640 I've been lucky enough to work with Jamie twice on 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:43.160 Ray and Janego Unchained Classics by the way, Yeah, truly, 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:47.160 he's He's the best. And Jamie's taught me a lot 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:49.440 about a lot of things. But one of the things 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:52.240 is in my work as an actor, to you have 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.640 to let go of that perfection idea. Because we were 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:57.240 doing a scene together in Ray. It was the scene 0:10:57.240 --> 0:10:59.200 where I find speaking of drugs, where I find all 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:03.400 his heroin works the first time as his wife, and 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:05.240 you know, we had done it in the morning, we 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.040 had hit it out of the park and I was like, oh, 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:10.079 we are on fire. This is incredible. And then as 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:11.920 the day went on, I kept trying to do it 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.480 exactly the way we had done it earlier that morning, 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:17.160 so that it would be in that perfect place that 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.560 it felt so good. And that's the beginning of death. 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:24.280 As an actor, like you, you can't try to recreate magic. 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:27.320 You have to keep cultivating new magic, right, Like, you 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.520 have to truly be in the moment. And Jamie really 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:32.840 helped me to realize I was frustrated in the scene 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:35.240 and he was like, you got to you gotta keep digging. 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:37.040 You got to let go of this morning. And that 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:38.760 was a really powerful lesson. 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:41.360 Why was it easier to find that in acting as 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:43.000 opposed to real life? 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.000 Well, I guess I hadn't learned how to apply that 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:46.880 to the rest of my world. You know, there was 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:51.120 like it was in a vacuum, was isolated kind of moment. 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:52.200 It's a good question. 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:54.080 I mean, that is the lesson though, right is that, 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:59.600 like the answer is never about perfection, It's always about 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.839 like what's the best possible version of my life in 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.079 this moment of me, in this moment, I. 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.200 Was going to ask what you know with doing this book? 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:09.320 What made you finally say, you know what? I'm ready 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.720 to open up because you've always been so private about 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:13.160 your life other than acting. 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:13.640 What said? 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:15.839 What was the moment he says, this is why I 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:17.040 want to do it, and this is why I want 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:17.600 to do it now. 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:22.640 I think part of it, honestly, is that I have 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:26.000 been always very private with my kids, very private with 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:28.800 my husband. You know, we don't put our kids online. 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.440 We don't really talk about our marriage on the internet 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.880 but or the press. But I've been very public in 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:38.080 my relationship with my parents. My parents come to premieres, 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:42.000 they come to award shows, fashion shows, red carpets, magazines. 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.200 So suddenly I felt like when they gave me this 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.840 information and they asked me not to share it, I 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.839 was now being complicit in their life, Like they had 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.240 built this false narrative and now they were asking me 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.360 to buy into it. And I was like, I don't 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:58.400 want to be out in the world doing an interview 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:00.560 where people are like, oh, wow, you're on looks so 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.040 much like your dad. Which by the way, he weirdly does, 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.160 and not be able to be honest right, Like I 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:07.680 just wanted. I wanted to be able to have my 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.840 truth and not feel like I had to live under 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.480 their shadow. And I felt like, if somebody's going to 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:15.719 tell this story, I want to tell it because it's 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:17.760 my story. So I didn't want to just do it 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:19.840 on a talk show or I wanted to really have 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:20.480 the narrative. 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:22.520 Now, you did say something I heard you say that 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:25.320 parents do the best that they can and then it's 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:29.559 up to us to parent ourselves after that, explain that well. 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:30.319 I think. 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.040 One of the things that I've truly come to terms 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.320 with in writing this book is that every choice my 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:38.720 parents made was out of love. They weren't trying to 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:41.640 be cruel, they weren't trying to hurt me. They really 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:43.679 thought that this was the best choice. And by the way, 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:47.160 doctors back then said it, like artificial inssemination was so new. 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:48.920 They would say, we do this thing and then you 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.400 go home and have sex, and then you have plausible deniability. 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:53.480 And nobody knew forty years ago there would be these 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:56.720 home tests twenty three in ancestry. You had no idea, 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.480 so they were like, go home and have sex, then 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:02.280 the kids you end of story, nothing to talk about, right, 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:06.760 And so it I think my parents didn't want me 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.079 to feel different. They didn't want me to feel weird. 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:11.480 They didn't want me ironically, they didn't want me to 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.840 feel distance from them, even though that's what wound up happening. 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.079 So I know that they made loving choices or choices 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:20.920 out of love, even if they didn't feel loving to me. 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.440 But I think we have to for me and my journey. 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.960 It's been like, it's been good to understand who they were, 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.400 to have compassion for their choices, but I can't blame 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:33.520 them for where I am now. Like now that I 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:35.760 have awareness, I have to say, like, Okay, they gave 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.600 me everything they could with as much love as they 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.240 could in the places where I feel like I don't 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.200 have the tools that I needed. I didn't get the 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.640 tools I needed in that household. Part of being an 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.080 adult is to say, how do I give myself those tools? 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:51.240 How do I ask for help in therapy, in you know, 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.480 reading coaches, like how do I now close the gap 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:56.960 between what they gave me and what I need? That's 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.240 my responsibility as an adult. If I just sit here 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.200 and continue to complay about what they didn't give me 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:03.040 that I'm keeping myself a child. 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.440 What's that? What's the conversation like with your kids? 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.240 Like once you decided to take this world to your 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.480 kids and even deciding to write the book, and now 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:13.760 you're you know, because your kids, I'm sure they're friends 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:15.960 and everybody knows who you are. So how do you 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:17.480 have that conversation with them? And kind of how are 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:18.560 they responding to things? 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:20.600 You know, it's funny, like I was saying before, this 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.320 is so common now, like it's not news to my kids. 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:29.080 They were so unimpressed. Like, you know, they're in their classes. 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:31.200 They have kids with two dads and two moms, So 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.800 they have friends from sperm donors, friends from egg donors, 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:36.320 friends who are adopted, friends who were born from surrogates. 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:39.840 Like they also like we're a blended family, right, They're 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.360 big sister. You know when you we look at the 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:44.480 three of them, their big sister has four parents. Like 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:48.320 having me having another parental figure in my story is 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.200 not weird to them. For my parents, they came from 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.640 a world where what makes a family was very different. 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:57.400 But the ideas of what makes a family now is 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:01.160 much more open, so you know, they they know obviously 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.080 the conversation I have with my seventeen year old is 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:04.960 very different than the conversation I have with my six 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:08.840 year old, right, But you know, I'm we I want 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:11.000 to be a home where we're open and honest and 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.080 where they feel like they can ask anything. 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:15.960 What about when you decided to because I know in 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:17.600 this book you talk about the abortion that you had 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:21.000 at twenty. Yeah, that is something that is like in 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.080 your twentieth but I mean it's around Saved the Last 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:27.480 Dance time, right, so you were, you know, highly successful 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.240 at this time. I know, But it's in a chapter 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.640 that I call black famous because I was, I mean, 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.520 you know how we are like white people didn't necessarily 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:37.640 know that the girl from Save the Last Dance was 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:39.280 the same girl from Ray was the same girl. 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.520 From Last Cave of Scotland. So we knew, I you know, 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.720 but so yes, I was, my star was on the rise. 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:46.960 But it wasn't. I wasn't like I could still go 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:48.520 to the grocery store and it was all good. 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:52.080 Do you remember the next like, because I know that 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:53.880 there's probably like a lot of like medicine and different 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:55.920 things that you take when all that's happening, But when 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:58.040 you really were able to like sit and talk to 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.120 yourself after that, What was the conversation you had with yourself. 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:06.600 After my abortion? Oh, that's such a great question. I 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:10.520 don't remember. I don't remember. I mean, are you asking 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:13.080 in terms of, like, how did I feel about making 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:13.760 that choice? 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.920 Yes, because I think prior to making the choice, maybe 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.720 it's different after right, or maybe it's not. 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.160 I don't know, but I'm just wondering. 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.719 I never questioned whether or not it was the right choice. 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:33.119 It didn't feel easy, But I mean, to be honest, 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.560 I remember feeling really grateful that I was able to 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:39.800 make that choice because I knew that that would have 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:42.240 had a huge impact on my life, on my career, 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.880 on my mental health. I knew I wasn't ready, and 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:49.960 I felt really lucky to live in a country where 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.119 I had the right to make that choice, where I 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.960 had agency, free agency over my body, and could, you know, 0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:00.679 make decisions about my family and my family planning that 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:02.320 were the healthiest decisions for me. 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:04.120 Changed the discustry. 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:05.720 Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I shared it, 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:09.000 because I feel like those rights are under attack. And 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:10.960 you know, in that moment, I talk about it as 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:14.119 a loss of personal privacy because I got wreck Even 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.760 though I went to the abortion clinic under a pseudonym, 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.560 under a fake name, I got recognized. So you really 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.840 did that, yeah, yeah, and so. And for me, it 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:24.920 was like I had a sense of the loss of 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:29.000 my privacy in that room. And that's what's happening to 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:31.560 so many women right now. The right to have an 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.120