1 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and this is our second 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: episode that deals with epigenetics. It deals with the ghost 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: in our genes, the basically getting down to the sort 6 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: of nature and nurture aspects of who we are. Uh 7 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: and uh. In the last episode, we we really went 8 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 1: down and discussed us some of what's actually happening at 9 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: that the genetic level, uh, what is happening at the 10 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: epigenetic level, and then and then how all of that 11 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: expresses itself in the phenome, which is who and what 12 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: we are? What? How an organism exists, it's phenotype. So 13 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: in this episode we're going to talk about studies that 14 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: have involved humans that's and uh and exactly how we 15 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: see epigenetic changes carried on from one generation to the next. 16 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: And it really gets down to discussions about how much 17 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: choice do I have? Mean any discussion of epigenetics and 18 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: nature and nurture, there's this undercurrent of free will to 19 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: what extent in my shackle do my genes? To what 20 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: extent is everything about me? Just laid out in the 21 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,919 Speaker 1: original code work that was that came together in the womb, 22 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: and then how much of it is, and then how 23 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: much of it is also out of my hands because 24 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: of the environment that I am in, in the environment 25 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: that I'm raised in, the environment that I grow up in, 26 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: or as we're going to discuss more the environment that 27 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: my mother grew up in, or the or that that 28 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: her mother grew up in, right, like, how much of 29 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: it is? Uh, it's just sort of set in stone 30 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: to a certain extent before we even have a SASA. Yeah, 31 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up the free will angle about 32 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: this too, because when we look at epigenetics UM, it 33 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: does sort of bring into question to what degree UM 34 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: are we just sort of dealing with on off switches 35 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: of our genes and how they're expressed, and how much 36 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: of this um is a genetically clean slate. Because it 37 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: used to be that we would assume that, of course 38 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: you would you would get your eye color, or your 39 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: hair color, or the tone of your skin from your parents, 40 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: from your grandparents, so on and so forth. But you 41 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily have thought that the things that your mother 42 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: and father did as ten year olds would matter to you. 43 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: But in fact it does, and we'll discuss that. Yeah, 44 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: and then there's a certain amount of magical thinking, uh 45 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: in all of this as well. There's always you know, 46 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: these old ideas that die really hard, that the apple 47 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: never falls far from the tree kind of a thing. 48 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: You know, if the if the father was a criminal, 49 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: then the son is destined to be a criminal, you 50 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: know that kind of thing. If the and if the 51 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: mother was was a genius and just in a multitasker 52 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: or whatever you know, accolades you want to throw at her, 53 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: then surely the offspring will have that as well. And uh, 54 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: it's not as simple as that, right. There's a psychological 55 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: component to this that we will talk about. But right 56 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: now we're going to talk more about the physiological component. 57 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: In in order to do we're just gonna do a 58 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: quick overview of epigenetics. Um. Epigenetics is the study of 59 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: gene expression and how it can vary from what generation. 60 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: Epigenetics means in addition to the genes. In addition to genetics, 61 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 1: Eppie above the genome. Right, so you've got the genome 62 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: with all the d n A, the sequence that is 63 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: that does not change, and then you have the material 64 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: as you had pointed out before that's between the genome 65 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: and the epigenome. And these are the proteins. These are 66 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: the flip switching areas of gene expression that can be 67 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: passed down to another generation. I'm going to use a 68 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: different metaphor this time. It just occurs to me. Um, Okay, 69 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: think of say three Rock the TV show, right, lovely 70 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: just ended, just ended, very sad. Alright, So imagine this. 71 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: Lislemon comes up with a script for that night's show, 72 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: and you can think of that script as the is 73 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: the genome, all right, it's the genetic code. It says 74 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: what is going to happen. Right, Let's say that that 75 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: script and passes over Jack Donneghe's desk, her boss's desk, 76 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: and he says, well, given the current political or business environment, 77 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna make this change and this change and this 78 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: change and this change and this change. And now this 79 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: is the script that you're going to actually film. And 80 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: then the version of the show that you see, the 81 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: version that is filmed, that is the that is the 82 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: finished organism. So he's the He's the methyl group that 83 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: attaches to the protein that turns on or off different 84 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: aspects of the script. Right, So we talked about DNA 85 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: methylation in the last episode, but we won't talk about 86 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: it too much here. Yeah, it's basically the epigenome involves 87 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna personify things a little bit here, but 88 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: it's meddling. It's meddling based on environmental stimuli. Environmental stimuli 89 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: that may include, uh, that may be nutritional, it may 90 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: have to do with angry, dangerous predators in the environment, 91 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: stress in the environment, or or various chemicals that are 92 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: interacting with the with the organism's body. Yeah, and this 93 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: is why one member of a pair of identical twins 94 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: can develop a bipolar disorder or asthma, even though the 95 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: other is fine. Right, This is epigenetics really helps to 96 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: explain why this happens because some of these uh, these 97 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: the epigenetic changes are taking place in the womb and 98 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: they're more or less set for that that organisms life, 99 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: but other switches are coming on can come on and 100 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: off throughout that that organisms life. So even though Jack 101 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: donaghy made this the script changes this week. The environment 102 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: might change, you get a new president in office, or 103 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: they're different business concerns, and then he might not make 104 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: the same changes the following week. All right, So when 105 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: we talk about epigenetic changes and we talk about them 106 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: and humans. One of the best ways to really look 107 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: at this in detail is to look at the Dutch famine, 108 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: which happened during full World War two. We're talking about 109 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:51,559 Speaker 1: between nineteen forty four and nine. And the reason why 110 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: researchers wanted to look at the Dutch famine and the 111 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: families that were involved is because what do we have here. 112 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: We have an environmental condition and such as famine that 113 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: could greatly impact not just that generation, but the next 114 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: generation and how it's phenotypes, its attributes, those genes are expressed. Yeah, 115 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: because the situation is here that researchers were seeing persistent 116 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: health problems six decades following UH, this UH Dutch hunger 117 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: winter as it's called. The research has found that children 118 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: exposed to famine during the first ten weeks following conception 119 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: had less DNA methylation of the imprinted i g F 120 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: two gene than the children of the same sex, siblings 121 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: of the same sex they were unexposed to these conditions, 122 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: that's right. So in other words, that DNA methylation was 123 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: the process that that sort of attached to the proteins 124 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: to turn on or off that gene and so in 125 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: this instance they had less of it. In other words, 126 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: this DNA methylation wasn't able to UM to actually sort 127 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: of protect them, and so that this i g F 128 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: huge gene was able to express itself a lot more 129 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: in those children who experienced malnutrition. Now, likewise, children they 130 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: were exposed to these famine conditions at the end of pregnancy, 131 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: they showed no difference in the methylation compared to siblings 132 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: that were unexposed. So it's interesting to see, like see 133 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: what stage and development those those triggers are flipped. Now, 134 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: UM this was in the Netherlands, and again this is 135 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: wor World two. This was a great experiment for the 136 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: researchers at Columbia University UM Public School of Health to 137 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: to really and the Legan University excuse me, Medical Center 138 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: in Netherlands to really look at this data because they 139 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: could see which families UM had the most food in 140 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: the least food during that embargo UH in the Netherlands. 141 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: That is one example of what happens when you have 142 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: UM a dearth of food. Right. But what what one 143 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: researcher did, Dr Lars all of Vigrant is he looked 144 00:07:55,960 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: at these overclax youth in Rboten, which is a Swedish providence, 145 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: and he wanted to see how much food was available 146 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: to these kids. Now, Bigrant is a preventive health specialist, 147 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: and what he did is he drew a random sample 148 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: of nine individuals born in this Overcallips parish in their 149 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: boating in nineteen o five, and he used historical records 150 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: to trace their parents and grandparents back to birth. So 151 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: these are meticulous agricultural records. And what they found is 152 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: that some of these kids had a lot of food 153 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: available to them during winters. Some kids did not. They 154 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 1: begin they had sort of a stasis of um impoverished 155 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: food resources available to them. So what you see is 156 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: is one line of kids who who can be sort 157 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: of gluttonous and eat a large amount at certain times, 158 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 1: and another line just that continue on right. So you 159 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: would think that the kids who weren't getting a lot 160 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: of nutrition for for the entire period, that they might 161 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: be the ones that were affected here adversely affected. But 162 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 1: actually actually the kids who over eight who we see 163 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: in successive generations having the problems with their genes switching on. 164 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: And when I talk about this, uh, these genes switching 165 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: on and off. I'm talking about diabetes. I'm talking about 166 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: shorter lifespans. In fact, Bagrant found that kids who went 167 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: from normal eating to gluttonous eating had produced grandsons who 168 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: died in average of six years earlier than the grandsons 169 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: of those who who had endured a poor harvest. And 170 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: then by Grant and his team controlled for certain socio 171 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: economic variations, and when they did that, the difference in 172 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 1: longevity actually jumped to an astonishing thirty two years. Okay, 173 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: So again, what we're seeing here is significant drops in lifespans. 174 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: And they also found evidence of it occurring on the 175 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: female line as well. So that means that the daughters 176 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 1: and the granddaughters of girls who had gone from normal 177 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: to gluttonous diets also live shorter lives. And of course 178 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: the study is important is we look at our own 179 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: dietary changes here to over the past and well in 180 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: the past decade, like here in the United States, as 181 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: we're looking at at at the generational changes in the 182 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: approach to food and approach the diet and uh, and 183 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: you kind of I mean in the sort of do 184 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: it yourself, fix it up, and improve your life kind 185 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: of attitude. You want to think, well, all right, I 186 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:20,959 Speaker 1: used to eat this way, I'm now I'm gonna now 187 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: I'm eating better, I'm eating smarter, or I I don't 188 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: have the diet that my parents had or the diet 189 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: that my grandparents had, But you're still, to a certain 190 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,559 Speaker 1: extent kind of shackled to their diet, which is which 191 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: is potentially scary. Yeah. Well, and I think that's why 192 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: we have seen such a spike and OBEs and diabetes 193 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: in any very young children, you know, as young as 194 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: five years old, six years old. Um, so some of 195 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: them are saddled with these genes that are flipped on 196 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 1: and off because of parents and previous generations eating habits 197 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: or ability to to get nutrition. So this guy b Igrant, 198 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: he he did these studies and then he hooked up 199 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: with Dr Marcus Pembrey, and he's a geneticist at the 200 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: universe A College in London, and he dared to ask, well, 201 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: what if the environmental pressures and social changes of the 202 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: industrial age had become so powerful the evolution had begun 203 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: to demand that our genes respond faster. So they hooked 204 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 1: up and they found out a punch of really very 205 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: interesting things. Yeah, this one about smoking, particularly interesting. And 206 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: this one was two thousand six published in the European 207 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: Journal of Human Genetics. And uh, I mean, it's it's 208 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: one thing to realize that, yes, smoking, which of course 209 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: is a a major thing for your body to have 210 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 1: to deal with. It's easy to imagine our especially best 211 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: one what we've talked about here, to imagine smoking triggering 212 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: certain epigenetic changes in the body and then those, uh, 213 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: those those changes being transgenerational, passing on to the next 214 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: generation or potentially to generations beyond that. But what was 215 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: really crazy about this particular study is that they were 216 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: looked at like over fourteen thousand fathers in the study, 217 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,319 Speaker 1: and a hundred and sixty six of them had started 218 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: smoking before the age of a and that's so that's 219 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: before their bodies were actually preparing to enter puberty. And 220 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: uh and and already these changes were taking taking place. Yeah, 221 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: because it turns out that that um, if they are 222 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: affecting their body in an adverse way i e. Smoking 223 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: at this age and they began to form sperm, they 224 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,839 Speaker 1: began to make it. That is when that sperm, that 225 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: genetic material is going to be informed by that outside 226 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 1: environmental condition of smoking, and that it's crazy to think 227 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: about a ten year old who is smoking. I mean, 228 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: I'm assuming pretty regularly here, because you know, it would 229 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: have to be in order to have such a marked 230 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: imprint on the genetic material. But that's crazy to think 231 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: that a ten year could be affecting his future offspring 232 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: at that moment. Yeah, And it also it really throws 233 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: this another, this other idea on its head, this sort 234 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: of idea like when you're a kid that you know 235 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of stuff that happened when 236 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: you're young is gonna is gonna affect who you are 237 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: as an adult, obviously, but you you kind of sort 238 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: of writing a certain amount of room for mistakes, like, oh, 239 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: I can I can start smoking when i'm young and 240 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: quit later, and if I can quit, then great, then 241 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: I'm done with that. Or you know, you can you 242 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: can do maybe kind of stupid things when you're ten 243 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: years old and it's not going to really have as 244 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,319 Speaker 1: as much impact on your later life, but already it's 245 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: having an effect on your children when you're tent And 246 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: that's a that's really eye opening to think about. Yeah, 247 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: I mean, because those kids who took up smoking that early, 248 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: they had, um, they had kids who had a much 249 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: higher risk for ab city, and they had other health 250 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: problems well into adulthood and shorter lifespans. So what's amazing 251 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: about the study is that they had fourteen thousand individuals 252 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 1: and that's a very large sample, and year after year 253 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: they were able to look at the offspring and the 254 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: parents here and look at them in terms of like 255 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: their bone density, how much they weighed, with their bits were, 256 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: and they were able to track them over a number 257 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: of years, and so they got an amazing amount of 258 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: data that can show them very clearly that um, you know, 259 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: some of the genes were flipped on or off in 260 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: these instances. I also ran across the study talking about 261 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: cocaine use UM and in this way that this experiment 262 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: they were using mice, So these were cocaine using mice, 263 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: and they found that in these mice, the mice would 264 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: develop memory problems, they would pass on three generations um 265 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: due to these epigenetic changes. So there's another another example 266 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: of something where you know, one might think, oh, well, 267 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: the the sins of one's youth, uh, you know, they'll 268 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: they'll they'll be ramifications for that, but you tend not 269 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: to think of three generations worth the ramifications for you know, 270 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: your your drug hat. You know, I can't figure out 271 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: whether or not this is comforting or just really problematic. 272 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: Well to understand it at this level, you know, I 273 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: think it's I think it's a little column calum b. 274 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it's you know, and we'll we'll get into 275 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: this a little more before we close out the podcast. 276 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: But um, but even as we continue to map out 277 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: um so many of these these things that make us 278 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: who we are, all these different environmental changes and all 279 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: and the things written in our genes, they contribute to us. There, 280 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: I mean, ultimately, you're gonna have to roll with what 281 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: you get. So, I mean there, at the end of 282 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: the day, you you can worry about it a lot. 283 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: You can worry about, Okay, well what what what my 284 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: child genetics? What were they? And then then how am 285 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: I nurturing this child? And and it becoming this battle 286 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: of of of nurture and nature, and then you can 287 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: you can kind of over analyze everything. Uh, but at 288 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: the end of the day, you're you're gonna have to 289 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: roll with it. Yeah, I know. And I realized this 290 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: because my daughter has been asking about death a lot 291 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: lately and so you know, the question do sure this 292 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: morning was you know, what are the various ways that 293 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: you know people die? Or how do people die? In 294 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: So it's trying to tell her with you know, with 295 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: her four year old mind, and I was trying to 296 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: explain to her disease, which was very hard for her 297 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: to get her mind real She wanted to know if 298 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: insects gave her diseases, and of course yes, I know, 299 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: I thought, well technically in some cases, but I said no, 300 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: because of course I don't want her to be friend 301 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: of every ladybug and mosquito that she says she's she's 302 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: lying around. So anyway, I need to know basis at 303 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: four years old. But I began to think about this. 304 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: I began to think, well, you know, as she gets older, 305 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: she can have a more nuanced understanding of epi genetics, 306 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: and certainly, you know, when she reaches age twenty, there 307 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: should be a lot that can be uncovered about not 308 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: just my epi genetics, but hers and and perhaps you know, 309 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: various other offspring and trying to figure out, um, sort 310 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: of what the sins of the mother and father were. Yeah, 311 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: and it can I mean, it's can certainly be uh, 312 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: perplexing to think about two. I mean, for instance, uh, 313 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: my wife and I are in the process of adopting 314 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: a child and uh, and so in that situation, the nurturing, 315 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: of course is going to be almost you know, entirely 316 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: on us. There's there's a certain amount of time there 317 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: that we're not in the picture obviously. But but then 318 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,479 Speaker 1: of course the genetics, the nature aspect of it is 319 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: almost entirely out of our hands. So it can lead 320 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: to a certain amount of worry and perplection over over 321 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: the nature versus nurture, over the epigenetic changes that that 322 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: that we can contribute to and and those that have 323 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: already uh you know, left the train station. But again, 324 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you gotta roll with it. 325 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: So that's true, that's true. You can't over worry about it. Um. 326 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: But of course, you know, you gotta roll with what 327 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: you get genetically. But you also have to roll with 328 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: which you get in terms of emotional baggage when it 329 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: comes to our parents, our ancestors. And this is where 330 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,479 Speaker 1: we of course discussed the ancestor syndrome. But before we 331 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: talk about this, we should probably take a quick break 332 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: and uh, we'll be right back. All right, we're back, 333 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: and we're going to talk now about a little something 334 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: called ancestor syndrome and about some of the more almost 335 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: philosophical aspects of genetic memory um and uh, or even 336 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 1: you know, racial memory if you want. And in this 337 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: we can't help but think about Carl Young, whom he had, 338 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 1: of course, his theory of the collective unconscious, and that 339 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: this idea that there's this level of unconscious beyond a 340 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 1: personal unconscious, beyond our own subconscious, that is shared by 341 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: a society. That's uh, that's ship, that's written in our ancestry, 342 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: and it's uh, it's the reservoir of experiences and beliefs, um, 343 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: you know, what have you. That we're ruled over by 344 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: all these various universal archetypes that while the particulars of 345 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: them may change, the the idea of the archetype is 346 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: is just embedded in our in our history. And and 347 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: so Young talked a good bit about racial unconscious, racial 348 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: memory and uh. And there's a certain amount of this 349 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: to be interpreted when we start looking at epigenetics. It 350 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: should be because you know, we don't have scientific evidence 351 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:06,479 Speaker 1: to say that our ancestors actual emotional experiences were passed 352 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 1: down to us. We can say that the environmental conditions 353 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: could flip the switch, because I mean, that's a scary 354 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: thought right there, because everyone has their emotional things in 355 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: any lineage that are going to be problematic. Be it 356 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: you know, your uncle, you know, your your great great 357 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: grandfather was a king who had his head cut off, 358 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: or your great great grandfather was, you know, a poor 359 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: miner in West Virginia just struggling to make ends me, 360 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. And it's those kind of like forbearers 361 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: autobiographies that help put together this idea that, um, we 362 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: do have these experiences passed down to us via stories 363 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: and that makes an impact on our psyches. UM and 364 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: aunt Selin Schutzenburger, she is a professor emeritus at the 365 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: University of Nice and France. She's actually ninety years old now, 366 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: but she coined the term psycho genealogy. And this is 367 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: this idea that there are these subtle ways in which 368 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: we impact generations of offspring, and the idea that all 369 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: family groups share an inherent tendency to transmit those elements 370 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: necessary for the continued survival of the group. So you know, 371 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: the group, the tribe, the family has ideas, traditions, certain 372 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: things that it does over and over again to ensure 373 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: the survival of this identity and through stories, wills, even 374 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: a will is a story, right, Um. Again, traditions, that's 375 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 1: a really big part of it. So Schutzenberg describes the 376 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: theory of invisible loyalty as being something that is owed 377 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: to previous generations and that this is a catalyst for 378 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: unwittingly re enacting the life events of our ancestors. This 379 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: is the idea that you have this invisible loyalty to 380 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 1: a great your grandmother Josephine, who this is the first 381 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: circus acrobat, I don't know, um, And you begin to 382 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: think you can begin to take on these characteristics for yourself. 383 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: So I think it's interesting because, um, you know, a 384 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: child is born, it doesn't necessarily have any sort of identity. 385 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: It's got its genetic identity. It's god, it's phenotypes that 386 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,640 Speaker 1: are expressed turn on and off. But then we begin 387 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: to sort of do these are a layer, these memories 388 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: on top of this child to make the identity. And 389 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: that's all good and fine if the child is good 390 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: with this identity, but it if if it is not, 391 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: then of course, this is where we see conflict. Yeah, 392 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: and uh, I mean I can't help but think too 393 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: about various materials I've read about the the so called 394 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: quote unquote scar of adoption that that did anyone. And 395 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: this is this scenaria where people argue both sides. But 396 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: there's this argument that that any adopted child who comes 397 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: to know about their adoption, that there is a certain 398 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: emotional scar there that's just unavoidable because I mean, it 399 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 1: is a it becomes that person's personal history and they 400 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: have to fit themselves into this grander story of their lineage. 401 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: So well, and what's interesting about this is, uh, there's 402 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: a psychotherapist, Moliki Coleman, and she says that a child 403 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: is doated on with an emotional and psychological DNA CHAN 404 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 1: from its parents and family, which enables the child to 405 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: function successfully in that particular family context. So if you 406 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: have a child who is adopted, then the then already 407 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: the child is forming this store that they didn't fit 408 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: into the family context or can a child can? I 409 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: should should say that doesn't always happen. So that's the 410 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: struggle there, I think for trying to figure out where 411 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 1: a child fits in. Now you know, a child who 412 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: is not adopted I think still feels this way. Yeah. Yeah, 413 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: that's one thing to always keep in mind, is that 414 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: is that any child is going to struggle with who 415 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: they are and what they are and the possibility that 416 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: their mom is actually a princess and not the mother 417 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: that they have in their life. UM. You see, you 418 00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: see that kind of situate because of my my younger 419 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:05,160 Speaker 1: sister who is who's not adopted. UM. But she would 420 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 1: form these stories in her head about how she was 421 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: actually the secret built more child. I think this was 422 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: after my my family, like we went and saw the 423 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: Built More emation and Nashville, and so she had this 424 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: story that she began to form that she was secretly 425 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 1: wanted to build more children that was her real family. UM. 426 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: So you see that kind of personal myth making, um, 427 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,880 Speaker 1: you know, in various levels, be it being an adopted 428 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: situation or birth parents situation. So now, my my brother 429 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: told me when I was six years old that I 430 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: was adopted and I had blonde hair at that time 431 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: and my family dark hair, blue eyes in um. And 432 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: then he went through this whole sham thing and pretended 433 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 1: he couldn't find my birth certificate and produced his I mean, wow, 434 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 1: that was elaborate. It was yeah, that that's the kind 435 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 1: of kid he is. But um, but yeah, I mean 436 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: every I think at some point every child and adult 437 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: feels like a black sheep with their family. And so 438 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 1: that you do get this emotional baggage, and you do 439 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: get these stories that are passed down that are like 440 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 1: this sort of genetic memory. And I put that air 441 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 1: quotes right, because this is sort of like this layering 442 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: of information over you. And this leads us to magical 443 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: thinking of course. Oh yeah, we get into, of course, 444 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: the idea of law contage. And we discussed this to 445 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: a certain extent in the past two about the eye. 446 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: It gets into the whole area of like the powder 447 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: of sympathy and the idea that that you could you 448 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: could treat a wound by treating the weapon that caused 449 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: the wound, or that by coming into contact with with 450 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: with somebody you can can you can contract um they're 451 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,239 Speaker 1: sort of spiritual or mental funk. Yeah. And so if 452 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: you have something that is uh, your ancestors, if you 453 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: have artwork or some sort of piece of thing that's 454 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: there's it feels like it has this magical quality to 455 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: it as it brings with it all of this psychic 456 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: uh sort of baggage um that your family is carrying 457 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: around with them all the time. Yeah. I mean that's 458 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: the thing about stuff and things. We we attached so 459 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: much importance to them, and then uh and and and 460 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: and that has a definite impact on on how we 461 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: think about that. I mean, case in point, uh, my 462 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: father's wristwatch um that he he was wearing when he died, 463 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: and and I have been wearing it for the past 464 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: a couple of years, and then the other day it 465 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: stopped ticking, like the battery went dead in it, which 466 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: is something I knew had happened eventually. I knew it 467 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: didn't have like a you know, an atomic um battery 468 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: in there or anything. But when it stopped working, it's 469 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: like I became real emotional, like in spite of myself 470 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: knowing that this was going to happen, but it u 471 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,959 Speaker 1: But there was this this aspect that this was an 472 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: artifact that was somehow embodied with a sense of him, 473 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: and that it had kept ticking, and that therefore part 474 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: of him was still ticking in it, even though on 475 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: you know, half of me just dismisses that as who 476 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: he even as I say it, there's a part of 477 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 1: me that still really buys into that well. And I 478 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: think that's what that that's the point here is like 479 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: that we should underscore is that our our families, family 480 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: autobiography is very powerful stuff. And so we talk about 481 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: things at the genetic level, and we talked about environmental 482 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 1: aspects of it. And certainly we can see the phenotype 483 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: expressed under pressure, but there is the psychological pressure too. 484 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: And as you had noted at the top of the podcast, 485 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: you know, if we tell our stories the same, if 486 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 1: we tell ourselves the same stories all the time, like 487 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: my family is this and we do this, Um, you know, 488 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: we're geniuses, then you begin to perform that part or 489 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: we're bank robbers. I'm gonna go rob the bank. Yeah, 490 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if anybody actually thinks that, 491 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: but but yes, to a certain extent it. I think 492 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: there comes apart in anyone's life where you have to 493 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: stop believing the story about yourself that people were telling 494 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: you and start writing your own story, or at least 495 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,360 Speaker 1: editing that story, applying in a way at the genetic 496 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 1: changes to the story you're given become the Jack Donaghye 497 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: of your own script exactly. He has become the Jack 498 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: Donna gave your own scrip script and say you know what, 499 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I mean I feel like there was a 500 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: part in my life where I was where I had 501 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: to say, you know what, I'm I'm I'm a really 502 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 1: good writer, and that's gonna be my thing, and that's 503 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 1: my story, and and it becomes your story, you know, 504 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: within a liminated you know stint, I couldn't say now 505 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to be the president the United States that 506 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: maybe maybe not. You gotta you gotta level your your 507 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: dreams with your abilities. But but there does come a 508 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 1: point where you have to you have to, I think, 509 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: rewrite that story otherwise you're just gonna be shackled to 510 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: this old story. And that's where that's where actually some 511 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,880 Speaker 1: of Schultzenberger's work comes into play, where she was examining 512 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,959 Speaker 1: things like quote unquote family curses. I'm probably doing too 513 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: many air quotes in this podcast, I apologize, but you know, 514 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: looking into ideas of family curses and and things of 515 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: this nature and looking at that that it really having 516 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: to do with buying into a story, into into a 517 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: into a lineage, and letting that influence who you think 518 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: you are. That's interesting. That's like the Kennedy curse, right 519 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: if you look at that. Yes, a bunch of things 520 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: happened in their family, but they have a very large 521 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: family living in a very different way. Um. Well, and 522 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: of course slavery in America is a big thing too, 523 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: because you have something, I mean, among racial divides. You 524 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: have individuals who go back in time and you find 525 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: slavery or you find slavers, and it continues and will 526 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: continue to be a problematic aspect of kind of our psychohistory. 527 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: This is true. All right. Well, there you go. Two 528 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: episodes that we've done now about epigenetics UM. And I 529 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: think you know this supplies a good starting point for 530 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: everyone to really think about genetic changes, epigenetic changes um 531 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: nature versus nurture in sort of a larger uh theme. 532 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: So if you if you want to learn a little 533 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: bit more, you want to rehash some of the details, 534 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: do check out the article UM, how epigenetics works. I 535 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: did write that. I wrote it a couple of years ago, 536 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: so uh, it may need an update, but still most 537 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: all the core information and that is still good. It's 538 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: a very fine article, and it does point out some 539 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: of the technical applications here too. Um that I just 540 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: wanted to mention that drug therapies are beginning to be 541 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: developed and have been developed to help flip those switches 542 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: when it comes to disease, like the drug as a 543 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: as a Pedidon and that helps suppress leukemia. So keep 544 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: that in mind too. It's not all just who we 545 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: we need to look at the ghosts in the machine there. 546 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: There are definite things that are coming out of this 547 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: to help us along as we get a better understanding 548 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: of epic genetics. And I'll close out here with a 549 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: quote from Peter Brooks um play his adaptation of the 550 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: Hindu epic the Mahabarata, where one character is speaking about 551 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: the character Karna, who himself was an orphan who grew 552 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: up to be a mighty warrior. And the quote is 553 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: that birth is obscure and men are like rivers whose 554 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: origins are often unknown. So there you go, um, what's 555 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: called the robot over here, and do just one quick 556 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: listener mail before we leave, all right, This one comes 557 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: to us from Dominique. Dom Anique writes in this as 558 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: higher Julian Robert, just listen to your cool Science of podcast. 559 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: Really great. I'm surprised you didn't reference the phoenix when 560 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: speaking about the immortal jellyfish um and immortal in quotes there, 561 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: because we discussed it's not really immortal, but for headline purposes, 562 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: it's immortal. It was the first thing that came to 563 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: my mind that this is the aquatic equivalent of the 564 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: legendary bird that would go up in flames at the 565 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: end of its life to leave an egg in its place, 566 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: which would from which it would then be reborn, which 567 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: is a very good point. I don't know why I 568 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: didn't think about the phoenix, because it's it's really more 569 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: of an example of of the mythical phoenix as more 570 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: so than it is an example of immortality. Domini continues. 571 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: Quantum teleportation also had me smiling as I first started 572 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: to equate the entangled entangled pair of subparticles to those 573 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: mythical twins who where one supposedly feels the pain of 574 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: the other even across large distances. Of course, in this case, 575 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,479 Speaker 1: the twins would be killed off every time they cut, 576 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: would be made on their arm to transmit a bit 577 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: of the info. I'm now imagining a sci fi story 578 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: where shiploads of twins would be brought to the distant 579 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: planet by supply ship been sacrificed by the thousands every 580 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: time a message had to be sent. Wow. Yeah, it's 581 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: really Hunger Games scenario. Yeah, and and and Dominique right 582 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: to us from France by the way, So there you go. 583 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: But yes, that the the twin example was a great 584 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: one that I would have wish I would have thought 585 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: about UM. A few years back in New York, there 586 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: was this guy who was offering it's kind of like 587 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: an art installation kind of peace, uh, the idea of 588 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: quantum marriage, where you would supposedly become quantum entangled to 589 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: your partner UM. So that gets into a little bit 590 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: of that. Well, thanks Dominic for reading in. So if 591 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: you would like to share anything with us UM's particularly 592 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: if you'd like to share your thoughts on the genetic 593 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: and epigenetics about the stories that we uh we we 594 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: bring into our lives, that the stories that we end 595 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: up creating and tweaking um to uh to really become 596 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: who we are, then let us know about it. We 597 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: would love to hear your insight and or thoughts. You 598 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: can find us on Facebook and Tumbler, where your stuff 599 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: to blow your Mind on both of those, and you 600 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: can also find us on Twitter, where our handle is 601 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: blow the Mind, and you can always write us a 602 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: letter at blew the Mind at Discovery dot com. For 603 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics, Is It 604 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works dot com