1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot com? Hey, and welcome to 4 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and with me as always 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: as Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Uh And this is stuff 6 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: you should know the podcast, the Audio Cheesecake Podcast. So 7 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: mad at that guy? Oh? Really? Yeah, we'll talk about 8 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: him in a minute. It will all become clear. Okay. 9 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: I just took my tooth out for I'm getting the 10 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: new one tomorrow finally. Congratulations, Thank god? Are you getting 11 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 1: it after we record? Yeah? So two more episodes will 12 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: feature hill Billy Chuck. It's been along, it's been like 13 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: over six or seven months now. I just look back 14 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: at Christmas photos and I had not too. I didn't 15 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: realize it was like last year and it almost all 16 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: against hill Billy. That's really derogatory, you realize, No, I 17 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: love Hillbillies. Okay, Chuck, uh I, I have a revelation 18 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: for you. All right, let's hear it. So. Um. You know, 19 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: when you hear music and you look at art, if 20 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: you don't hate art, and you look at it, ah, 21 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: and you you start to feel an emotion, or maybe 22 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: a memory is released, or or just just something happens 23 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: to you, a change kind of comes over you. What 24 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: you're doing is experiencing an emotion that was I guess 25 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: created and encapsulated in a work of art, whether it's 26 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: music or something visual or and it was put in 27 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: there by the artist for you to come along and 28 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: unlock and then bam, you're feeling some sort of emotion 29 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: or whatever. That is possibly the most astounding thing that 30 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: humanity has ever figured out how to do. Agreed, Like, 31 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: think about it. It's like when when you're interacting with art, 32 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 1: you are, in a way interacting with the artist, and 33 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: the art is the intermediary. But if you so, you 34 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: kind of understand it on that level. But imagine if 35 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: you're you're an alien, an emotionless alien that came down 36 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: and observed this just kind of off to the side. 37 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: It doesn't it makes zero sense whatsoever. This painting is 38 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: just the work on canvas, its color and brushstrokes, and yeah, 39 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: but it's it is. If you look at it on 40 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: a on a much more important level, it is a 41 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 1: capsule of emotion and memory. Agreed, And I agree that 42 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: that's like astounding when you think about musical notes, like 43 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: there's a code inside them almost that taps into these emotions. 44 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: And I'm already upset because we don't quite know why 45 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: and like why it differs from person to person, and 46 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: it's like I don't think we'll ever know. Yes, you know, 47 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: some people can hear something and I think something sounds 48 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: like garbage. Someone else might hear and it might make 49 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: them weep. Okay, I think we do know. I think 50 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: I know, well you should written this article. Well, now 51 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: think about this. I think that we have um certain processes. 52 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: I did write this article smarty pan well one of them. Yes, 53 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: So I do think. I think that there's um certain 54 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: processes that our brains are capable of carrying out and 55 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: their emotion based, right, yeah, because think about what our 56 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: emotions Chuck. Uh, that's that's one of those hard to 57 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: define things there, like what what is the definition? Well, 58 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: it's like it's it's it's some sort of No, Okay, 59 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: what's the let me rephrase because that was define is, Chuck? 60 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: What what is the value of an emotion? What's the 61 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: purpose that it serves? Well, I mean some people think 62 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: it from early on it was a means to help 63 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: us survive, like fear of the tiger, or contentment with 64 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: the sun on our faces, right, or like around a campfire. 65 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: So okay, I need to stay warm. So you don't 66 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: even have to think that emotion is like your body 67 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: thinking for itself in order to survive or achieve its goals. Right. Yeah, 68 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: So our brains are capable of carrying out certain processes 69 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: and using things like art and music. It's almost like 70 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: exercise for those emotional processes. And when we do this exercise, 71 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: they kind of bulk up, but they bulk up differently 72 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: for different people because we have different experiences. They're all 73 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: along the same lines where you're feeling like things that 74 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: make you happier, things that make you sad, or things 75 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: that make you scared. Um, but they're different subjective experiences. 76 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: That's what I think is going on. I agree, especially 77 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: when you throw memory in there, which we'll get you. Uh, well, 78 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: let's go ahead and hit this one study then, um Germans, 79 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: the gentleman's conducted. Uh they found uh, the MafA tribes 80 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: people in Cameroon who had not heard Western music before, 81 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: not a second of it, and they thought, well, this 82 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: is perfect let's play some Western music and see if 83 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: they can match, uh, this music to like an emotion 84 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: like happy or sad. And they did, right, And by 85 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: Western music we mean pancho music. I'll bancho. Um. There 86 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: was another part of that study I thought was even 87 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: more interesting, which is they played altered versions of music 88 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: for them as well, with like threw it out of 89 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: rhythm or made dissonant harmonies. And these people that had 90 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: never heard Western music like didn't appreciate that sound very much. 91 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: It in hately triggered like when they heard bad harmonies 92 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: or off rhythm beat, They're like, no, right, So if 93 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: there's whatever their word for knowing, if there's not something 94 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: universal going on, then um, then they shouldn't have noticed. 95 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: Then I'll be a monkey's uncle exactly. So that means 96 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: two things that that emotion encoded in music is universal, 97 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: and the ability to distinguish like what's right and what's 98 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: wrong in music is universal too. Then that's what it 99 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: would suggest. Yeah to a certain degree, though, But then 100 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: you hear people that like don't understand when they're singing 101 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: off key, and I'm like, how can you not hear that? 102 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: Remember the tone deafness? One good overlooked episode anyway, I thought, 103 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: I think it's all very interesting. So okay, so we've 104 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: got this idea that this this is all universal. Um, 105 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: there's that still doesn't explain what's going on, and there's 106 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: there's different schools of thought. Like anytime there's just something 107 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: really big out there that's not explained, a lot of 108 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: people have some competing ideas. And one of the people 109 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: with the competing idea who you're apparently mad at, is 110 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: Stephen Pinker, who's a good guy, good, great guy. He 111 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: knows how to like he's a linguist, and yet he 112 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: can rise above the fray of like the sniping that 113 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: is so characteristic of that field. Yeah, he's got a mullet, 114 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: really Yeah, he's got kind of a curly per mullet 115 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: a little bit. He's a good guy. Okay, you'd like him, 116 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: But I don't like what he says about music. He 117 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: famously said music is auditory cheesecake. Um. His his contention 118 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: is basically, music is hollow compared to the language that 119 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: it's based on, right or hearing or hearing, And I 120 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: just I just couldn't disagree more. Well, I think he's 121 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: also saying there's different ways of interpreting what he was saying, Um, 122 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: there's it was an accident and evolutionary accident. Um or 123 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: it's designed. It's something that's designed to exploit an existing sense. 124 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: So like cheesecake, our sense of taste. It's like, we 125 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: don't really need cheesecake, and but when you're eating it, 126 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: you're like, this is really good, and it's designed to 127 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: be like I'm gonna take your sense of taste and 128 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna blow the back of your head out. I 129 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: think people need music and art though okay, well pinker 130 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: would probably contend that's not necessarily the case. That's that's 131 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: the explanation is that is that he's saying if if 132 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: that's if if music is just designed to assault the 133 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: sense of hearing. Um, it triggers emotions because it's specifically 134 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: targeted to do that. Yeah, simple as that. All right, 135 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: So the other guy or there is another guy, Mark 136 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: chang Zi uh cognitive scientists. He thinks that music, Uh, 137 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 1: we associate it with movement, and we can pick up 138 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: on movement and empathy, or we express and pick up 139 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: on empathy and emotion through visual cues of movement from 140 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: other people. Like if somebody's kind of trudging along. You're like, oh, 141 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: that person is sad. Yeah, yeah, and that makes sense 142 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: because um and this was I thought kind of neat. 143 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: Was this the first article yours? Yeah? When when you 144 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 1: google uh musical now and hidden into Google images, it 145 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: like almost everything you see it shows them like flowing 146 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: and flying and there's movement. Yeah, there's very few, like 147 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: just static shots of musical notes on a scale. And 148 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: even if you looked at a musical scale, you know 149 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: it has a flow and up and down and it 150 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: all is very movement based. Right. He also pointed out 151 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: to that, um we use terms about movement to describe music, 152 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: like a movement is a part of a smaller of 153 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: a larger composition. Um, or we say like music moves us. Um. So, 154 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 1: I think you did a good job in making the 155 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: case that we associate movement in music, But I don't 156 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 1: think that necessarily proves his point is larger point, that 157 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: that's how it evokes a motion because it's a stand 158 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: in for human movement. Yeah, but I definitely thought it 159 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:48,719 Speaker 1: was worth note. You know, for sure, it's all of 160 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: the things. It's like, that's kind of interesting, But what 161 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,719 Speaker 1: have we proven here, right, Well, there's another camp too, 162 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: that that um kind of is the opposite of Pinker's 163 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: assertion that um they say that no music and art 164 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: or its own things. Yeah, like it it looks like 165 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: this huge blur of of stuff when you put it 166 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: under an m R. I but that that that process 167 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: is its own thing and it's not just an offshoot 168 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: of language or hearing. I think I relate to that 169 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: a little bit. I figured you would. So all right, 170 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 1: let's let's put music on the back runner for a second. 171 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: Talk about art visual art. Uh. And I'll go ahead 172 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: and say up front that a painting or a photograph 173 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 1: I can find like extremely beautiful, but it doesn't move 174 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: me emotionally like music or a moving image will like 175 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: a you know, a movie or a TV show or 176 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: and then you put music and that moving image together, 177 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: and for me, that's like the recipe. That's just when 178 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: it goes to blan right, So like when at the 179 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: beginning of Bananca to start gueeping on exactly. But other people, 180 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: you know, look at a painting and like, I'll find 181 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 1: a painting gorgeous and beautiful, or a photograph, but other 182 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: people look at a painting and weep. Let's say but 183 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: not me. So it all varies from person to person, right. Um. 184 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 1: The thing that that kind of gets me is that 185 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: because it varies from person to person, I think that 186 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: explains why we have such a wide swath of what 187 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: we consider art. You know, why there's so many genres 188 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: of music, because something that might get you might not 189 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: get somebody else. Yeah, like the you know, the very bare, 190 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: you know, stark art of like the dot in the 191 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: center of a blank canvas. I don't get it. Well, 192 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: the thing is that's that's you can't poop poo it though, 193 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 1: because abstract art basically proves the idea that art is 194 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: an encapsulation of emotion or emotion encoded for each viewer 195 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: to unlock, and it may do nothing for you, but 196 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: it may also trigger some of memory, like that someone's 197 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: made it. Just the idea that like something beyond like 198 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: people moving and talking and saying lines and they're being 199 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: music in the background, unlocking you know, your emotions. The 200 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:16,959 Speaker 1: fact that just a dot in the middle of a 201 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: white canvas can unlock emotions like, that's it at its 202 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: most basic essential form, you know, but it's still does 203 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 1: the trick or performance aren't Yeah, you know, uh, So 204 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 1: one of the theories is that visual art basically simply 205 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: just taps into these learned emotional cues. And whether it's 206 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: ah a conscious thing or it's subconscious, like the color 207 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: red for these weird lines that I see, or a Pollock. 208 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: Maybe you know what that might evoke in different people. 209 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: It just Franz Klein for some reason, and I don't 210 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: know why. I don't know poll would be the go to. 211 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: But I like that you went somewhere else, the lines 212 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: in disarray, it's not nerving. See. One of the biggest 213 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: things I have with visual art, with like a painting, 214 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 1: is when I go see like a Pollock, I'm more 215 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: knocked out by being in the presence of the original work. 216 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: Like it looks cool and I love it and it's gorgeous, 217 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: But I think about Pollock in his garage, drunk as 218 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: a skunk, you know, dribbling the paint everywhere, and like, 219 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 1: if I could touch it, I would like connect with that. 220 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: If you touched it, you would get tackled by security. 221 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: Or anytime I see the original stuff, I think you mean, 222 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: like when I see the original handwritten lyrics at the 223 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: rock on All Hall of Fame, to like the Jimi 224 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: Hendrix song on a piece of notebook paper. I'm like, man, 225 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: his pencil touched that paper and wrote the wind cries 226 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: Mary Wham. There's that's definitely an aspect of it as well. 227 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 1: I agree, I agree. I don't know how. I wonder 228 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 1: how that changes things though, you know, is that does 229 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: that add to it or is it distracting? Like does 230 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: fame and celebrity distract us from our emotions? Oh that's 231 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: a good question. I think it enhances it for me. Yeah, yeah, 232 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: because when I had like this hero worship of an 233 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: artist and then I meet them or I see their 234 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: like original works, that's what does it for me. But 235 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: it could also be an unknown you know. Um. You 236 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: know that's funny though, because I wanted up say that 237 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: you would be you probably wouldn't have been into disco 238 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: then if you're like all about the artist and you know, 239 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: seeing that something created by you know, the individual, I 240 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: wasn't in the disco right. Um. But that also that 241 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: when I was researching this and reading these articles, that 242 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: made me wonder, like, is that a difference, Like there's 243 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: a difference between experiencing live music and recorded music? So 244 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: does that was that a distinction between people who are 245 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: into disco and people who weren't, an uncomm an unconscious difference, 246 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: although I would argue that the basis in this article 247 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: at least says that the live music thing is about 248 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: being in the same room with people with similar likes, 249 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: partially not necessarily, because you can listen to a live 250 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: recording of song and it is like hearing that crowd 251 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: cheers totally different. So maybe it's evoking that. But I'm 252 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: not friends with the people that I can't see on 253 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: this recording, you know. Yeah, that's a good point, all right, 254 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: let's get back to it. H uh yeah, the um 255 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: just real quickly. It's also culturally based because you make 256 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: a great point that depending on where you're from, like 257 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: even color can mean something different. Like in Japan, the 258 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: color white is associated with death, so melancholy will come out, 259 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: whereas black supposedly is in the Western world, something we 260 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: associate with that. So like a snow covered painting like 261 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: a Thomas Kincaid would maybe uh, instilled dread in a 262 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: Japanese person. That's why he doesn't do very well in Japan. Really. Yeah. Um, 263 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: But then one other thing, Chuck, where the the color 264 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: red those lines and disarray all that those are called 265 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: cognitive antecedents, right right. And you can also make the 266 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: case that a change in harmony or pitch or drumming 267 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: or whatever is a cognitive antecedent too, in much the 268 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: same way that the composers is changing something, is adding 269 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: something that is taking something away, and that forms a 270 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: cognitive antecedent. It's the thing that triggers the emotion. Awesome, 271 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: So should we talk about the brain? Here's where it 272 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: all comes down to science. I knew we were going 273 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: to get to there. At some point, you hear music, 274 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: and well, first of all, they say, it's kind of 275 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: impossible to say, like, you know, we can say we 276 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: have a language center and a center for like movement 277 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: and things like that, but we can't really pinpoint a 278 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: dead center for music in our brain because it's sort 279 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: of all over the place, right, which is kind of awesome, 280 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: I think. But when you first hear a song, let's say, 281 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: your frontal lobe is gonna kick in and the temporal 282 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: lobe and it's gonna process things like rhythm, pitch, and 283 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: melody to kind of get the ball rolling. Um. They 284 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: think it happens in the right hemisphere, but they aren't 285 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: quite positive that that's the only place that happens. UM. Personally, 286 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: I think it probably hits the left hand right. It's 287 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: firing all over the place. UM. But it depends on 288 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: a lot of things, Like you said, whether it's live 289 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: or recorded, UM, probably whether or not you are a 290 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: professional musician or not, or have any kind of training, 291 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: Like you're gonna if you know how to read musical notes. 292 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: When you hear musical note, you're probably going to visualize it. 293 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: Whereas like if I hear music like I do not 294 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: do that, maybe see colors or um fractals or something, 295 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: depending on whether I'm listening to Pink Floyd or not. 296 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: And then whether or not music has lyrics. If it's 297 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: um as lyrics and you can understand these lyrics, then 298 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: you're gonna be processing language through Broca and Wernicke's areas, 299 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: which we've talked about before, Two great areas. What was 300 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: that in We talked a lot about linguists in the 301 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: two areas. There's so many shows. No, man, I have 302 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 1: such a hard time. It didn't come out very long ago. 303 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: I think it was in UH the one on prohibition UH, 304 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: and it activates a visual cortex, because you know, when 305 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: you close your eyes and listen to music, you're probably 306 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: gonna visualize something. Well, that would that would lend credence 307 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: to the idea that music is associated with movement. Yeah. Sure, 308 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: as we check movement with our eyes. I see really 309 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 1: high glossy music videos. When I close my eyes, I 310 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: just see money for Nothing over and over and over again. 311 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: You see the the day glow in the purple leopards print. Um. 312 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: And it can also trigger the motor cortex, of course, 313 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: because that that's what you start tapping, the hand, tapping 314 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: the feet, bob in the head like in the disco 315 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: episode when he played some of that music. Even though 316 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: I don't like that music, it still gets the head 317 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: bob and oh it's good music, so you say, and 318 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: activates your motor cort text whether you like it or not. 319 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: And the Cerebellum, I think is the last one. And 320 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: that's pretty interesting because, um, that means you're like following 321 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 1: the music and trying to figure out where it's headed 322 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: based on what you've heard before. Yeah, because we love 323 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: to keep our ourselves occupied. Sure, Um, that's not the 324 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: last one. There's a medial prefunnal cortex. Yeah, you're right, um. 325 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: And that word also is usually pronounced pre frontel um. 326 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: And that one is the one where are that unlocks 327 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: our memories? Like the music goes in there as a 328 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 1: key and goes and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, yeah, 329 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: what's one of your old old ones? Uh? Hot Blooded? 330 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: What does that gave you? It was I think of 331 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: myself as a little three year old cowboy boots because 332 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: that was like the first song I ever knew the 333 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: lyrics too, so I walked around singing hot Blooded. Nice? 334 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: How about that? That's pretty good. My big one is um, 335 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: how Deep is Your Love? By the Bgs. It makes 336 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: me almost want to cry when I hear it because 337 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: this one day when I was like in the third grade, 338 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: that was a bully that was not even picking on me, 339 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: but he just scared the crap out of me on 340 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: the bus one day with his bullying. And I was 341 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: such a little wimpy kid, you know, And I ran 342 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,400 Speaker 1: to my dad's office he was principal, and he wasn't there, 343 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: and I was. She was just like, you can wait 344 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: for him, and I was like crying, And how Deep 345 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: is Your Love? Was on the on the the Hi 346 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: Fi and Uh, to this day, it just still makes 347 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: me incredibly sad to hear that song. See you like 348 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: this guy, Well, it makes me cry it moves you. 349 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 1: Or like Centerfold by Jake Giles Man that always takes 350 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 1: me to like the skating rink. Yeah immediately, ye good. Um. 351 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: So if you want to talk about memory, you should 352 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: go look up. Um have you seen the video on 353 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: YouTube I posted about the guy in the nursing home. 354 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 1: I don't follow you on Facebook, jerk. Uh, it's pretty amazing. 355 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: Just go to YouTube and put in man and nursing 356 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: home reacts to music. And there was this this old 357 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,959 Speaker 1: timer in a nursing home who it showed him before 358 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: he listened to anything, and he, you know, it's kinda shaky, 359 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: had a hard time stringing together sentences. And then they 360 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: put these headphones on and played like Cab Calloway and stuff, 361 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden his speech is fluid. Oh dude, 362 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: it's like remarkable and just gut wrenching to see this. Well, 363 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,719 Speaker 1: they were saying that the medial prefrontal cortex is whe 364 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: of the last areas to go with alzheimer exactly, So 365 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: you may have trouble with just about everything else, but 366 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: music can still unlock memories. That's pretty cool. Yeah, it's awesome. 367 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: It's cognitive vanta stin is uh. And then there was 368 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: another study with UM. They studied this woman who had 369 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: damaged to her temporal lobe and she couldn't distinguish between 370 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: like melodies and things, but she still had the UH 371 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: in the in the m r I machine had the 372 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:41,479 Speaker 1: emotional reactions lighting up that you would anticipate with like 373 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: quote happy music or sad music. Yeah, pretty amazing. Um. 374 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 1: Again it's like the MafA tribes people. Yeah, so we 375 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: have a pretty good idea that this this that our 376 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: brains are being activated these certain regions are right. We've 377 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 1: seen it in the mr iye that's full of listening 378 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: to music in MR eyes while scientists of studying them 379 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: they love that kind of stuff. Um. And so from 380 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: that and like that Alzheimer's revelation, we started to realize like, okay, 381 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: well maybe we can like artists, um, create music or 382 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: art too, um to get you in with the emotions. UM, 383 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 1: maybe we can kind of use this as like a prescription. 384 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: And hence music therapy has been born and it's actually 385 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: been proven as um what was the UM noun for efficacy? Efficatic? Effective? No, way, 386 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: that's a an effect. It's effective. Okay, thanks Chuck, Sure 387 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 1: go ahead, man, something bad just happened to me. Okay. 388 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: Well yeah, so music therapy has been born and it's effective. 389 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: It's been shown effective, effic had of exactly like uh 390 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: for instance, Well, they think it grows as we grow 391 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: like this, this tie to music and emotion intensifies this 392 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: we grow even though they've seen it in little babies. Babies, Yeah, 393 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: it starts early, right, Yeah, but like you know, fast 394 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: tempos and a major key will tend to make someone 395 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,719 Speaker 1: happy and it just you kind of take it for granted, 396 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,919 Speaker 1: but like there's stuff going on there to make this happen. 397 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: And like minor keys, D minor the saddest of all 398 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: keys slow tempo. Is that the Devil's key that's from 399 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 1: spinal tap, but it is it's a very sad key 400 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,719 Speaker 1: and minor keys when you hear it, especially as a musician, 401 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: you you know, it just lends itself to like darkness. 402 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: I wonder if that's the Devil's key. There's something called 403 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: like I think the Devil's key. Yeah, I can't remember 404 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: what it is it's worth, like, maybe we'll do it 405 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: smarter in sixty seconds on it, I would love to. Okay, Um, 406 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 1: but as far as uh study these go with medical benefits, 407 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: they have found that UM at cal State University that 408 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: hospitalized kids, we're happier during music therapy when they could 409 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: play something along with like a teacher on guitar, let's say. 410 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: Then even getting like toys and puzzles like they they valued, 411 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: and we're happier during music time than playtime right there. Uh, 412 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: like just playing doing their own plaything just stunk compared 413 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: to playing a triangle. Yeah, I was always like putting 414 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: a bad mood when I was given a triangle or 415 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: a recorder? Do you remember recorder lessons? Mandatory recorder left? 416 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: Why was that the one? Probably kids is easy? Yeah? 417 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: What did I guess? The recorder lobby was much stronger 418 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: when we were kids than it is today because you 419 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: don't see those any longer. Yeah, well there was no 420 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: read on it, like it's just any kid could pick 421 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,199 Speaker 1: up a recorder and play. You don't have to hit 422 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 1: it just right with like the flute or and then 423 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: what were those ones dicks? They were like ribbed sticks 424 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: that you just like zip along one another because there 425 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't corduroy. Yeah, this is a percussive instrument. I don't 426 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: know the name of it though it was boring. Uh, 427 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: the augmented fourth, my friend, it's the Devil's Key. We'll 428 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 1: have to check that out. Maybe our guests can play it. 429 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, um, which is coming up soon by the way. Uh, 430 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: breakup songs. I was a little bit I couldn't quite 431 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: figure out if they've proven that a breakup song. It 432 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: seemed like all anecdotal, like you know, of course I 433 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: will survive, is gonna pump you up if you're gonna 434 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: show him, or you know, she's always a woman to me, 435 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 1: will make you weep. If you love Billy Joel and 436 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: your girlfriend love Billy Joel and you just broke up, 437 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: well it feels good to pear those songs and to 438 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: cry it out because your medial prefrontal cortexes is crying 439 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: out for that. I guess, yeah, because I mean, like 440 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: you have a memory formed in relation to a song, right, 441 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: But no, I think the point that Congress is trying 442 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: to make is that there's not a study out there 443 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: that showed that breakup songs have a certain effect. No 444 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: one's done that yet, but she did lay out like 445 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: a pretty good case for how it would work. Why 446 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: people were walking around knowing that like, yeah, this, this works, 447 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: this has its effect. Right, Well, she's saying, like there's 448 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 1: this um this Rutgers University anthropologists named Helen Fisher, who 449 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: studies the effects of breakups, and basically she is the 450 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: one who came up with the concept of the breakup 451 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: as a going cold turkey on an addiction, like you 452 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: can compare it to cocaine. And the reason why is 453 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: because when you're in love with somebody, your limbic system 454 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: is stimulated, and then when that's taken away, all of 455 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: a sudden, this stimulation that you used to have is 456 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,719 Speaker 1: not there any longer, your olympics system, it gets kind 457 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: of irritated. What Congress saying is that it makes sense 458 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: that music, which has been shown to stimulate the limbic system, 459 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: probably does some sort of number on it to kind 460 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 1: of wean you off that cold turkey person. You just 461 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: oh okay, you just yeah, got you. That makes more sense, now, 462 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: that's yeah, But there wasn't an actual study, You're right, okay. 463 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: But she also pointed out that music um has been 464 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: shown to be a pain reliever. Yeah. This one study 465 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: in from two thousand eleven found that cancer patients undergoing 466 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: mastectomies had lower blood pressure and lower anxiety when they 467 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: played music prep during the operation, even in post op 468 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: and um. And not not an enormous amount. It's not 469 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: like a shot of morphine or anything like that, as 470 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 1: like point five, uh half a point on a ten 471 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: point scale, you know, the pain scale, the line drawing 472 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 1: of the person. Just like, I never know what to say. 473 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: They're always think I need to say a lot so 474 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 1: I'll get a better pain pill. Well, they ask you 475 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: like one to ten. I know, that's why I always 476 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 1: say ten, okay, but I never I mean, it's hard 477 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: to qualify. If you want to get the good pain pills, 478 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: you have to stay eleven. They think that's hilarious. Have 479 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: you said that this one goes to eleven. That's the 480 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: second spinal tap reference. Um. Yeah, and that's actual physical pain. 481 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: It shows to ease a little bit. But where it 482 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: really comes in handy is as like an anxiety reducer 483 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 1: and as an emotional woob. Yeah. They found that people 484 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: who suffer from anxiety, they actually responded to music as 485 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: an analgesic more than a pharmaceutical. It is, and it's 486 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: not just them like you you mentioned, like blood pressure lowering. 487 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: Other studies have been conducted that showed that pregnant women 488 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: um were less stressed out than when they listen to music. 489 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: UM people uh with cardiac patients, their blood pressure lowered, 490 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: um immune systems were boosted in post surgery patient's like, 491 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: there's it has this really great effect on us. It's 492 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: pretty pretty obvious why it's. It's the Olympic system has 493 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: a calming effect. I had that happened to me once, 494 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: actually to my detriment. I was uh so living in 495 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: New Jersey at the time. I was going to the 496 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: bank and like really stressed out about getting to the 497 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: bank before it closed, and this song came on about 498 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: that I've never heard before. Like halfway there, I get 499 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: to the bank, it's like literally like a minute and 500 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: a half for this bank closes, and I could not 501 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: get out of the car. I couldn't quit listening to 502 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: this song. Well, its song was that I can't remember now, 503 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: but I literally remember watching the dude come up and 504 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: locked the door in front of me and sitting there 505 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: in my car and thinking, you know what, this is 506 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: worth it because this is amazing and I'm not stressed anymore. 507 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: And who cares about the bank? That is? That is 508 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: quite a song, Yeah, and I think it probably pounce 509 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: some checks because of it. But who did you go 510 00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: back and listen to the song after you're looking at 511 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: I wish I could remember what it was. This is 512 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: a long time ago. That's really made them like a 513 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: classical thing because I broke down at Carnegie holland cried 514 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: one time. Yeah, Beethoven's like I did, uh, Beethoven's ninth 515 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: Oh to Joy with like the full choir. That thing 516 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: pumped in joy man, oh to joy? Yeah, oh joy. 517 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: Uh that's right, that's like those are the lyrics. I 518 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: just activated your were Nikki's area. Now you activated another area? 519 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: What else you got? Nothing? Man, I've had plenty of 520 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: those A lot of times. It's live music that gets 521 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: me because of the shared experience. Um, but it can 522 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: happen on just you know, in a movie or a 523 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: television show. Yeah. Like I said, you married the moving 524 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: picture and music together for me, and it's like it's 525 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: all over. It's like chocolate and peanut butter. You got 526 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: any good breakup songs, any good sad songs are you like? No, 527 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: but only like I think who doesn't do that, you 528 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: know when they go through a breakup, to sit around 529 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: and listen to like the most Morrow's stuff you can find, 530 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: like put on the Smiths and the Smith's the Cure. 531 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: One of my all time favorites was a Secret Machine 532 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: song called the Loan Jealous and Stone good Audio kill you. 533 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: M Yeah. Strangely, Genesis Ripples is really yeah, that's a 534 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: great one to me, Like, but that one is so 535 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: magnificent because it depending on my mood, it's either sad 536 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: or very reflective. It's not it's not ever like happy, 537 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: like yeah, I feel like I'm gonna go take on 538 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: the world. It's not that kind of song. But it's 539 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: not necessarily like sad. It's just contemplative in a lot 540 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: of ways too. And there's a range too, you know. 541 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: I think with the breakup, like at first, you do 542 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: want to just keep being bummed out and so you've 543 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: gotten it all out of your system, and then that's 544 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: when you want to put on you know, I had 545 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: the Tiger Well. Also, Molly pointed out she wrote the 546 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: second article, I think she points out that. Um, if 547 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: if we are hitting our um limbic system with music 548 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: and we are, it's like a drug, we become addicted 549 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: to it, then there's a really good case for unplugging 550 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: and not listening to music for a while. I don't 551 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: know about that, which kind of points out something that 552 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: I've known for a very long time. Good listen to 553 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: stuff you should know is very refreshing. That's true. Yeah, 554 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: we have a special treat here, Chuck. Okay. So um, 555 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: we've been talking about the idea of experiencing music like 556 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: unpacking it and experiencing music and art. We should probably 557 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: talk to somebody who packs that a great way to 558 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: say it. Thank you, Um we have you might remember 559 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: him from the Mountaintop Removal mining episode. Mr Ben so 560 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: Lee is joining us again. That's right, and we're gonna 561 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: get his insights on a music and emotion as an 562 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: artist and then as a special treat. Just like last time, 563 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: he's going to play for us. So our second musical 564 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: guest is the same as our person. All right. Uh 565 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: so let's just get been in here. It's like magic 566 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: then soil he is in the studio. Wow, that was Ben, 567 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: Thank you for coming. Oh it's my pleasure. Hello. Thanks, 568 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: it's good to be here. It's good to be here. 569 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: So we did things out of order and Ben actually 570 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: just played although through the magic of editing, you will 571 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: hear that song in or songs afterwards. Okay, do you 572 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: have to give away all our secrets? I know, but 573 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: I just wanted to say that I was supercharged after 574 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: doing this podcast on music and emotion to experience that 575 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: with you in a room with just a few other people. Well, 576 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear what you've been talking about. That. Well, 577 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: that leads me and I see, by the way, into 578 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: my first question, which we talked a lot about in 579 00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: the podcast about um music and emotion and how it 580 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: depends on whether or not it's live. Like there's a 581 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: difference emotionally whether or not it's live music or like 582 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: on a CD. And as an artist, I mean we've 583 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,359 Speaker 1: got scientist perspective. As an artist, what has been your 584 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: experience with playing live and with how fans receive it 585 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: live as opposed to on a CD. Well, you know, 586 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 1: there's on recordings, there's kind of the there's a lot 587 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: of room for the listener to um place their own 588 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: images and their own ideas into the music and everything, 589 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: and it's there's certainly room for that in the live 590 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 1: show as well, but they're also visually seeing what your 591 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,359 Speaker 1: body is doing when you say these words, and of 592 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: course physical body language is a huge part of of 593 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: how we manipulate the meanings of things, and I think 594 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: that has a huge amount of input, Um, But I 595 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 1: also think that sometimes it can confuse things. You know, 596 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: sometimes people can be seeing you and kind of be 597 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: so overwhelmed with what was happening and how it's happening 598 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: visually on stage that it doesn't necessarily they don't get 599 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: to focus on what might impact them as much musically. 600 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: So I think I do think there's two music affects 601 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: people differently in live and then recorded settings. That's pretty 602 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: much what I said. I think he kind of just 603 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,839 Speaker 1: confirmed what you said to me. Um. We talked about 604 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: there's a theory that one of the ways music moves 605 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: us is because we it's it's a stand in for 606 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: human movement. So that would make a lot of sense 607 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: that if you're also seeing movement while you're listening to music, 608 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 1: you're just have your mind blown. It's a stand in 609 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: for movement. Huh. That's what what was his name, Mark 610 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 1: Changzi something like that. Yeah, that's his theory. That's why 611 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: our emotions are unlocked through music is because we we 612 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 1: um visualized movement and we can feel empathy towards human movement. 613 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: So the music just reminds us of that movement. It's 614 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: a theory. I think he's working on it still. I 615 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: think there's I think be interesting to see how it 616 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,959 Speaker 1: gets to that part of the brain and what path 617 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 1: it goes through, whether you know, because music kind of 618 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,479 Speaker 1: exists through this kind of backdoor in the brain, maybe 619 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,919 Speaker 1: the place where speech began and then got its own 620 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: apartment later on in life. We we talked all about that. 621 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:25,720 Speaker 1: You're gonna love this podcast. I've got a question, Okay, 622 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 1: So one of the things we talked about Ben was, um, 623 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 1: how when you're observing art or when you're listening to music, 624 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 1: it's like you are unpacking, um, what the artists put 625 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: in there emotionally, or the artist is using some sort 626 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,800 Speaker 1: of cues to trigger your own emotions. As an artist, 627 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: on say the packing side of this whole equation, do 628 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: you ever just go like this note is gonna make 629 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: everybody just weep on cue or this one's really gonna 630 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: get them, Like, do you ever do you think like 631 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: that or is it more when you're creating something that 632 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 1: you're you're end of putting yourself in there and it's 633 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:05,760 Speaker 1: open for interpretation. I think there's there's generally two ways 634 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: I go about it, and both of them have their 635 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 1: own dangers and pitfalls. When you think when you try 636 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,879 Speaker 1: to think of a musical device that's going that can 637 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: and will affect people in a certain way, especially if 638 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: you're talking about anything with words and music, Um, there's 639 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: a danger of kind of watering, watering the emotion down 640 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: to something that can be to affect people in a 641 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 1: broad way. Um, not something on Broadway, just people being 642 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: affected in kind of like a like for pop music. 643 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: We'll just use that as an example. You know a 644 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: lot of times when you're listening, you hear things and 645 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: sounds and musical repetition that's used because people feel like 646 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: it will be a hit or will affect a lot 647 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:57,320 Speaker 1: of people. And uh, And of course when I'm writing songs, 648 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,359 Speaker 1: sometimes I could think that I'm being that I can 649 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: be too personal with an idea, Like I can get 650 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: something that's so personal I'm packing up that bag and 651 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: I'm putting you know, undy's in and all this other 652 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,240 Speaker 1: stuff and like too specific, and you lose people because 653 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: they can't relate to that specific item. But if you 654 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: talk about the gesture that's there and try to find 655 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: that the essential human expression that's in there, um, then 656 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,440 Speaker 1: you have a universal idea, even if it springs from 657 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: a very personal experience. So if I was going to 658 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: say that another way, I think I would say that, Um, 659 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: when you're packing up the bags, you have to be 660 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: careful not to be too personal, um, because otherwise you 661 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: can lose people. People can almost feel like, um, not 662 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: necessarily grossed out, but like they're like they're seeing something 663 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 1: that they shouldn't see or it's too private, Yeah, exactly. 664 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: And and so what you need to do is figure 665 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: out how your private things relate to their private things 666 00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: and so create a personal experience that has some type 667 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 1: of universal meaning or expression to it. So when you're 668 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: packing the bags, you leave out like the metaphorical leather 669 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: hood with the zipper mouth, Yes, I'll leave that out. 670 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: And Norton, nor do I make repetition of things that 671 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: everybody knows is already there all the time. You know, 672 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: like if everybody knows that the doors are closing and 673 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 1: chatting all the time. You don't use that musical device, 674 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,320 Speaker 1: which is to say you don't just like, for instance, 675 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 1: in dubstep music, there's a very simple musical pattern that's happening. Basically, 676 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,880 Speaker 1: there's a big build, usually for about thirty two bars, 677 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,439 Speaker 1: where it's just there's no low end or anything. There's 678 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 1: just big build, build, build, build, and then there's something 679 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 1: called the drop where the base drops back in and 680 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: it's like it's supposed to be like this quake of 681 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: emotion that happens and everybody's head started just going up 682 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,880 Speaker 1: and down, and um. You have to be careful because 683 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: it's a pretty simple device and there's lots of different 684 00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: variations you can do in that on that, but if 685 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,319 Speaker 1: you do it too much or too similar each time, 686 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:07,359 Speaker 1: then people are just like, ah, is that just a crescendos. No, 687 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: it's not a crescendo, it's a it's a it's an orchestration, 688 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: it's an arrangement thing. So a criscendos when things just 689 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: kind of grow in volume, and uh, this is much 690 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 1: more of arranging sounds, so that there's some that are 691 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 1: absent and you know, they're going to return, but how 692 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: you bring them back in and create anticipation is is 693 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: the strength of your composition as a As a dub 694 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,279 Speaker 1: step artist, I guess good stuff. We actually have an 695 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,959 Speaker 1: article on that and it's on my list dub step. 696 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,359 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb will kill you if we record dub step? Uh? 697 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 1: So Ben? As an artist, do you think, like we 698 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: talked a lot about the emotional kick like the drug 699 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 1: and you know it releases dopamine and it's actual, there's 700 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 1: science behind it going on? As an artist, do you 701 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: find it more difficult to still get that kick or like, 702 00:40:58,239 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 1: you know, when you hear a song, do you think 703 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: I was like as a musician, like, oh I hear 704 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 1: what this person is doing there? Or is it just 705 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: still pure emotion going on? Or does it very um? 706 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: I think as an artist, once you start repetitively doing something, 707 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 1: there is a tolerance that builds up, which is kind 708 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: of a sad thing. Um, And people kind of find 709 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 1: ways to convey that they're still getting that stuff when 710 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: they're really not. That makes sense, especially in a live show, 711 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,839 Speaker 1: like you'll see a rocker contorting themselves in all kinds 712 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:30,799 Speaker 1: of weird ways and then after the show, they act 713 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: like just you can tell that they're not completely high 714 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,840 Speaker 1: off of off of the show, at least they're they're 715 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 1: just kind of like, yeah, thanks, um, as opposed to 716 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,800 Speaker 1: someone who you've just seem to go through a pretty 717 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,279 Speaker 1: magical musical experience and you and you can tell that 718 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: everything that they had just kind of came out of 719 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,880 Speaker 1: them and they're either bouncing around or they're just completely 720 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,240 Speaker 1: a puddle on the floor. You know. I remember seeing 721 00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: Andrew Bird play a show like that once and he 722 00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 1: just gave everything to it, and you can tell he 723 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 1: was having an overwhelming experience and stay went to talk 724 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 1: to him afterwards and he was just he was basically 725 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,719 Speaker 1: a puddle. He was a human puddle at the end. 726 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 1: He had just kind of given everything, and you know, 727 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:09,920 Speaker 1: he talks about that and in some of his songs 728 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,280 Speaker 1: as well. That actually was one of my other questions 729 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: as an artist on stage, like how do you night 730 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,319 Speaker 1: after night? How do you draw that up? And does 731 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 1: the emotion of the audience, Um, how much do you 732 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: feed off that? And can you you probably just can't 733 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 1: whip that up, so like how does that all work? Yeah, 734 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,319 Speaker 1: that's something I probably have to think about how to 735 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,959 Speaker 1: answer just for a little bit. But like I guess 736 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: the basic question is, like, what's the difference between a 737 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: good show and a bad show? Yeah? Sometimes up to 738 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,440 Speaker 1: me what was good and bad? Because sometimes I'll have 739 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,759 Speaker 1: what's sometimes when I'm playing a live show, I'll have 740 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 1: what seems to be a fairly kind of mundane night, 741 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 1: like nothing really special instrumentally happened. I didn't shred really 742 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,799 Speaker 1: much on anything, and I didn't really feel impact. And 743 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,279 Speaker 1: then people walk up to this show, walk up to 744 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: me after the show, and they'll be kind of having 745 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: this intense emotional reaction to it, you know. Um So 746 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 1: there's all kinds of stories and networking going on when 747 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 1: you're playing live on stage. People are getting to know you, 748 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,399 Speaker 1: they've spent two hours getting to know you. Uh, They're 749 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 1: checking all kinds of visual cues from you, and of 750 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,480 Speaker 1: course you're actually talking to them and telling stories. Um 751 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,840 Speaker 1: they're taking cues from everybody else in the audience. So 752 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:33,040 Speaker 1: there's kind of like a tribe build up mentality. Um So, 753 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:37,279 Speaker 1: I think part of it is getting everybody to participate 754 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,239 Speaker 1: socially in the show, if you want to get to 755 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,480 Speaker 1: that in that energy place where something overwhelming happens to 756 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 1: you and the audience UM, and that usually starts with 757 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 1: it's very much like a combustion, like you have to 758 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,440 Speaker 1: ignite it in some way and you feel that coming on. 759 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 1: Like have you been in a show where you feel 760 00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 1: like not so much as happening and all of a sudden, 761 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,840 Speaker 1: all right, now it's going on. Yeah, you can definitely 762 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,160 Speaker 1: feel it when it turns on. There's a a sort 763 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,759 Speaker 1: of friction in the room, if that's a good word. 764 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,239 Speaker 1: There's some there's definitely some type of resistance that you 765 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,240 Speaker 1: can move with, if that makes sense. Like in dance, 766 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,840 Speaker 1: when you're doing like ballroom dance, even though the motion 767 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: is very fluid, there's a lot of rigidity in it. 768 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,440 Speaker 1: Like between partners. You have to you have to kind 769 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 1: of push against your partner and they have to be 770 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 1: rigid to be able to communicate the movement to them, 771 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,040 Speaker 1: because you're not gonna be okay, spending the right degrees now, 772 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 1: dip down forty five, You're not gonna use language to them. 773 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,560 Speaker 1: You're you're touching and pulling, and but you want to 774 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,840 Speaker 1: do it in a fluid, very connected way, and you 775 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:41,919 Speaker 1: can you have that same sort of push and pull 776 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,560 Speaker 1: with the audience where when you push against them you 777 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,320 Speaker 1: can hear them here or feel them kind of get excited, 778 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:50,680 Speaker 1: and then when you pull back, you can hear them 779 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,919 Speaker 1: kind of breathing more. Uh. And when I say pull back, 780 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,480 Speaker 1: I mean that can be volume, that can be tempo, 781 00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,960 Speaker 1: that can be uh frequency range you're including in. There 782 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,239 Speaker 1: can be a lot of things. And of course, as 783 00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:04,759 Speaker 1: a chela player who did a lot of time sitting 784 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,080 Speaker 1: in the back of the orchestra, you I got to 785 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,640 Speaker 1: spend time paying attention to that from an orchestral standpoint 786 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,400 Speaker 1: where you're on stage with A D people playing to 787 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,680 Speaker 1: an audience of however many people, And so that's an 788 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,320 Speaker 1: even trickier thing because you got to get the A 789 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 1: D people to create the spark before the audience can 790 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:29,160 Speaker 1: really start combusting, like you can really start feeling that energy. 791 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,840 Speaker 1: And that second chair clarinetis is always just messing it up. 792 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:37,800 Speaker 1: Did you play clarinet? Okay? Um? But sometimes the audience 793 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,560 Speaker 1: can walk in and create something that may not have 794 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:45,359 Speaker 1: been there otherwise. I really I felt that too, um 795 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,319 Speaker 1: where maybe you had a really crappy day or maybe 796 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,480 Speaker 1: you just you don't have any energy left after doing 797 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:53,799 Speaker 1: a bunch of media or traveling on the road, and 798 00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,960 Speaker 1: the audience walks in and they're just they've got an 799 00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: idea and an expectation that is just buzzing or around 800 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,839 Speaker 1: the room, and suddenly you kind of get this encouragement 801 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:09,200 Speaker 1: or a feeling that you're going to fill their cups. 802 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:14,040 Speaker 1: You're gonna you're gonna really have an emotional impact. But 803 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,840 Speaker 1: there's no one way that I get my self psyched 804 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,080 Speaker 1: up for it to generate that spark. There's not like 805 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,520 Speaker 1: one tool, there's no drug that I use. It's just 806 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,000 Speaker 1: kind of one of those things where I try to 807 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,640 Speaker 1: from the very beginning, it's I try to write songs 808 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,359 Speaker 1: that have that personal experience and in it for me 809 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:38,359 Speaker 1: that that igniting artistic moment. Whether whether it's um, you know, 810 00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:42,440 Speaker 1: a love song, or whether it's a song about something 811 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:48,080 Speaker 1: stupid that happened between politicians, or a belief in um 812 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:52,320 Speaker 1: some type of social change, or it's or a war 813 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,680 Speaker 1: song or something like that. It can be any sort 814 00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:56,400 Speaker 1: of thing. When I write it, I tried to be 815 00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,279 Speaker 1: really honest and genuine about something that really moves me 816 00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,839 Speaker 1: so that whenever I play it over and over and 817 00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,319 Speaker 1: over again. The three time I play it, I can 818 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,440 Speaker 1: still look back into that song. And for me, it's 819 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,120 Speaker 1: very much like that. When I play a song, I'm 820 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,359 Speaker 1: I'm remembering and and kind of reliving a little bit 821 00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,480 Speaker 1: of what happened in that song, but not just what 822 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,880 Speaker 1: happened to that song, what happened when I played that 823 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:21,959 Speaker 1: song for the first time in front of a certain 824 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,560 Speaker 1: group of people, or when I played that song on 825 00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:26,960 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know or whatever you know. It kind 826 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,800 Speaker 1: of a creates experiences in it, and so that keeps 827 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,680 Speaker 1: me getting excited about it, and I think that probably 828 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 1: helps ignite things. Um, have you ever made a stranger 829 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,200 Speaker 1: weep with your music? And if so, how do you 830 00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:42,400 Speaker 1: feel about that? Now? When you say stranger, you mean 831 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:47,359 Speaker 1: like somebody who just just walking by, has no clue. No, no, no, 832 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:49,879 Speaker 1: not necessarily, just somebody you didn't know, Like somebody who 833 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:51,400 Speaker 1: came to see one of your shows, and like you 834 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,279 Speaker 1: look down and you saw like they were crying and 835 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,200 Speaker 1: it was obvious it was because your music had brought 836 00:47:56,239 --> 00:48:02,759 Speaker 1: something out in them. What was that like? So it's amazing, man? 837 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,400 Speaker 1: What is it like? So when I'm when I'm playing, 838 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,680 Speaker 1: when I'm playing a song that has a heavy emotion 839 00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,360 Speaker 1: to me like I've got this one song called Panning 840 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:17,480 Speaker 1: for Gold, and I wrote it about my grandparents who 841 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:22,400 Speaker 1: both had dementia, and UM as they slipped further and 842 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,600 Speaker 1: further into that it was it's Alzheimer's and which was 843 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:30,440 Speaker 1: caused the situation of dementia. UM, they kind of forgot 844 00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,000 Speaker 1: all the good stuff that they've done in the world. 845 00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:36,760 Speaker 1: And I used this character, this spiritual character of God 846 00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:41,960 Speaker 1: forgetting all the stuff that he created, UM in the 847 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,280 Speaker 1: song as a as a kind of like a lyrical 848 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:50,359 Speaker 1: device to show that it's our job to remind each 849 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,040 Speaker 1: other of how all the beautiful things that are in 850 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,560 Speaker 1: the world. And UM, that was what the song meant 851 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,080 Speaker 1: to me. And that's when I first started explaining to people. 852 00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,000 Speaker 1: But I quickly learned that people would weep to that 853 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:05,279 Speaker 1: song all of their various reasons. The song had was 854 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:10,600 Speaker 1: so um sticky as an artistic idea, the idea of 855 00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,759 Speaker 1: someone old for getting something that a young person was 856 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:19,680 Speaker 1: supposed to reconnect them with. H or maybe it was 857 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:24,439 Speaker 1: about protecting or preserving something that the audience would all 858 00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,640 Speaker 1: fill their own minds with ideas and they would just weep, 859 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:31,719 Speaker 1: and some of them would be leaping for joy, someone 860 00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,319 Speaker 1: would be missing somebody and it was a real, real 861 00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,640 Speaker 1: mix and I had no control over it. That's the 862 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,319 Speaker 1: that's the thing. That's how it feels. It feels like, ah, 863 00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,800 Speaker 1: I've I've. Even though you feel like you've impacted somebody 864 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,799 Speaker 1: in a deep way, you don't feel like you've got 865 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,839 Speaker 1: any control over how it happens. So I guess that's 866 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,160 Speaker 1: kind of what I was asking was, do you you 867 00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:55,160 Speaker 1: don't feel do you feel responsible for putting that out 868 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,120 Speaker 1: there and the people are crying or like that you're 869 00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:02,759 Speaker 1: just playing and they're attaching they're thing to it. I mean, 870 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,319 Speaker 1: usually the thing that coordinates with it is I feel 871 00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,000 Speaker 1: like I've had a really genuine expression in the song, 872 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,279 Speaker 1: you know, from a performance standpo, I feel like it 873 00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,600 Speaker 1: was a really honest performance. At the time, I'll feel 874 00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,359 Speaker 1: good about the performance, but I don't really feel like 875 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,560 Speaker 1: it's something that I did. I feel like, if I'm 876 00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,040 Speaker 1: being really honest, it can happen. It's something that I 877 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,040 Speaker 1: can create a situation for, but I don't feel like 878 00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:27,879 Speaker 1: it's something that I do. I feel like that's kind 879 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:32,160 Speaker 1: of like the communal choice or that person's that person's thing. 880 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:35,920 Speaker 1: Earlier in the show, we talked about each other's um. 881 00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,040 Speaker 1: We talked about music and memory and how it's tied 882 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,040 Speaker 1: to memories and very evocative of You know, a lot 883 00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,879 Speaker 1: of times songs from like your childhood will keep getting 884 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,799 Speaker 1: really specific with a certain memory. And you know, one 885 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,240 Speaker 1: of mine was the BGS and a very specific memory, Josh, 886 00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,120 Speaker 1: what was yours hot Blood in my Foreigner? But I 887 00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:58,880 Speaker 1: think everyone wants to know what's the first thing that 888 00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,520 Speaker 1: comes to your head when you about a song from 889 00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,080 Speaker 1: your past, from your childhood that really evokes a very 890 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:08,919 Speaker 1: specific memory, Like when you hear it, you're just there. Yeah. Well, 891 00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,319 Speaker 1: at this point, I've got a bunch At this point 892 00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:14,200 Speaker 1: in my career, since I've written a lot of music 893 00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,760 Speaker 1: and experienced a lot of music, I've got a huge 894 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,279 Speaker 1: pile of them. Um. You know, there's a couple of 895 00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:25,080 Speaker 1: this this song Wayfaring Stranger traditional Tune. When I play 896 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,359 Speaker 1: or sing or hear that song, I go immediately back 897 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:34,640 Speaker 1: to sitting behind my grandfather's house and um, hearing him 898 00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:38,680 Speaker 1: play that on fiddle and sing. Um. There's other weird 899 00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,680 Speaker 1: songs like two Dy Fruity is the song that I 900 00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,440 Speaker 1: got over stage fright for for some reason. Yeah. I 901 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:49,160 Speaker 1: was in uh grade school choir and I had terrible 902 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:50,920 Speaker 1: stage fright at the time. It was like fifth grade 903 00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,560 Speaker 1: or whatever, and I was playing chill at the time, 904 00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:55,920 Speaker 1: but I was singing in the choir and just I 905 00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:57,520 Speaker 1: just couldn't get with it. I was like, I shouldn't 906 00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:59,239 Speaker 1: be up there, shouldn't be up here. And at some 907 00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:04,480 Speaker 1: point I was kind of food and I looked out 908 00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,440 Speaker 1: and like there was kids on roller skates and the 909 00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,880 Speaker 1: hula hoops and the parents were all laughing, and I 910 00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:12,400 Speaker 1: was up on stage singing, and I was like, wait, 911 00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:15,720 Speaker 1: this is this is affecting people. This is really fun, 912 00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,480 Speaker 1: this is really affecting people. I can just see myself 913 00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,680 Speaker 1: up there. I just started shaking. It's like doing food. 914 00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,360 Speaker 1: Oh rude. And I just I went I go straight 915 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,719 Speaker 1: back there whenever I hear that song. That's funny. Yah. 916 00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:31,640 Speaker 1: And as a musician, like, what has been your what's 917 00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:35,200 Speaker 1: been your best moment as as a fan of music 918 00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,920 Speaker 1: when you've been in the audience and feeling you know, 919 00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,680 Speaker 1: that spark in that fire in the room. Mm hmm. 920 00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,720 Speaker 1: It wasn't that long ago that I saw an artist 921 00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,960 Speaker 1: named a Neus Mitchell familiar with her at all I 922 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,000 Speaker 1: think I know that name. It's really good. She did, 923 00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:57,800 Speaker 1: Um she did this kind of contemporary telling of the 924 00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,520 Speaker 1: story of your ID. It's and Orpheus, but she did 925 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:06,400 Speaker 1: as a folk opera with like Audie d Franco and 926 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:12,160 Speaker 1: Greg Brown and um, gosh, what's the guy from bon 927 00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:17,920 Speaker 1: I Just yeah, dude, Yeah, she put together all those 928 00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:23,200 Speaker 1: different folks and and created this modern contemporary telling of 929 00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,040 Speaker 1: it and it's so beautiful. But anyhow, I saw her 930 00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:29,120 Speaker 1: performing live and she's just got this way about how 931 00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:33,920 Speaker 1: she she just loses herself and and and it's like 932 00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,080 Speaker 1: she's trying to shake off these words that she just 933 00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:41,839 Speaker 1: has to say. Um. Yeah, that's the that's the most 934 00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,919 Speaker 1: recent times in the audience. I mean, she's just she's 935 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:50,000 Speaker 1: really breathtaking the way she would just flip the words 936 00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,279 Speaker 1: out and try to Yeah, it was almost like she 937 00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,640 Speaker 1: was trying to shake off the emotion and when she 938 00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:56,400 Speaker 1: shook it off, it ended up all over you in 939 00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,920 Speaker 1: the audience. That's awesome. It's kind of like galli or 940 00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,879 Speaker 1: it's very much like Gallagher. I love hearing that is that, 941 00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:05,440 Speaker 1: you know, as a music fan, to know that you 942 00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,120 Speaker 1: can still go out there as a musician and you're 943 00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,560 Speaker 1: not jaded or cynegal and yeah you can still get 944 00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,200 Speaker 1: lost like that, Oh, get super lost in it. I 945 00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:15,319 Speaker 1: mean right now. The most overwhelming sound that I hear, 946 00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,560 Speaker 1: of course is an orchestra, because I spent a lot 947 00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:19,759 Speaker 1: of years playing in them. And then I also think 948 00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:23,839 Speaker 1: they're so um special now because we have so few 949 00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:27,280 Speaker 1: of them that are playing at super high levels, because 950 00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:30,600 Speaker 1: so many orchestras have closed down, and um, I think 951 00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:34,520 Speaker 1: that's a really interesting thing because orchestras ask you to 952 00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:37,840 Speaker 1: change your social habit at least for us young folks. 953 00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:39,920 Speaker 1: When's the last time you went and saw an orchestra, 954 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,840 Speaker 1: either of you? Well? Mine was actually my one of 955 00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:46,200 Speaker 1: my best stories from seeing alive. I saw Beethoven's Night 956 00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:48,719 Speaker 1: that Carnegie Hall and uh, the oh de joy thing, 957 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,640 Speaker 1: Like literally I was sitting there crying like a little baby. 958 00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:53,120 Speaker 1: But I think that's probably the last one I saw 959 00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:57,520 Speaker 1: that when the dudes come in. Yeah, actually I saw 960 00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,160 Speaker 1: The Decembrist a couple of years ago with the Land 961 00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:02,279 Speaker 1: Symphony Orchestra, which is pretty great. Yeah, a couple of 962 00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,480 Speaker 1: years ago and as banded with the orchestra. What about 963 00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:10,080 Speaker 1: the orchestra? It's been a while and it so yeah, 964 00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:12,239 Speaker 1: and I think it's because orchestras ask us to change 965 00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:14,840 Speaker 1: our social habits so much to come see them, you 966 00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:16,600 Speaker 1: know what I mean for us young folks, like we 967 00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:20,080 Speaker 1: don't see shows in concert halls and pay sixty bucks 968 00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:22,719 Speaker 1: to do it, and we're a time and we're a 969 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,680 Speaker 1: time sitting seats. I don't have drinks, you know, like 970 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,719 Speaker 1: and and so even though it's one of the most 971 00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:35,640 Speaker 1: um incredible sounds that we create as humans, I mean, 972 00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:37,640 Speaker 1: it's it's really powerful sound when you get a full 973 00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,160 Speaker 1: orchestra there plan as you as you know from your experience, 974 00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,000 Speaker 1: but we still don't do it because it's so outside 975 00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:48,359 Speaker 1: of our zone. And I wonder you know what that 976 00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:51,000 Speaker 1: means as we become more and more visually based, like 977 00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:55,680 Speaker 1: what does music mean to us? And how does it 978 00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:59,880 Speaker 1: really affect us? And and how as musicians can we 979 00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:04,279 Speaker 1: uh still affect people in the same way regardless of 980 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:08,680 Speaker 1: an environment. And that's a that's the biggest challenge facing 981 00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:10,799 Speaker 1: us right now because most you know, most of our 982 00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:14,000 Speaker 1: music is being consumed at MP three quality through people's 983 00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:17,320 Speaker 1: you know, phones, streaming or watching an MP three video 984 00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,960 Speaker 1: or YouTube video something. So you know, as a musician, 985 00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,319 Speaker 1: I'm looking for the best way to affect people, uh, 986 00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,560 Speaker 1: and the best way to convey my song or art 987 00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,279 Speaker 1: or whatever you want to call it. And nowadays it's 988 00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,880 Speaker 1: just it just gets consumed so many different ways, and 989 00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,400 Speaker 1: you don't you have no idea how people are gonna 990 00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,480 Speaker 1: resonate with it, if they're going to resonate with it. 991 00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:41,200 Speaker 1: So the best shot that you got at it is 992 00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,880 Speaker 1: writing something that's really genuine to you as an artist 993 00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:49,120 Speaker 1: and then performing it in a really passionate, genuine way. 994 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:51,800 Speaker 1: And in some ways that harkens back to how we 995 00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:54,319 Speaker 1: got all started with this thing, which was a bunch 996 00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:58,320 Speaker 1: of people sitting around playing music, not professional musicians, playing 997 00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:03,040 Speaker 1: two audiences and um, and that's I mean, that's what 998 00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:07,960 Speaker 1: people originally were willing to start paying for. Yes, that emotion, 999 00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:11,640 Speaker 1: that kind of those those endorphins hit and yeah, all 1000 00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:15,479 Speaker 1: that stuff that that emotion, that physical effect on your body. Yeah, 1001 00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:17,120 Speaker 1: I've seen some of the best stuff I've seen has 1002 00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:18,880 Speaker 1: been like in the subways of New York. You know, 1003 00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,360 Speaker 1: I saw Gota do uh wild Horses by the Rolling Stones, 1004 00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,120 Speaker 1: just by himself acoustically, and no one was paying attention, 1005 00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,520 Speaker 1: And it was one of the most awesome like versions 1006 00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:30,400 Speaker 1: of that song I've ever heard in my life. Yeah, 1007 00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:33,520 Speaker 1: and no one was paying attention. Help for you, I 1008 00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:35,840 Speaker 1: think a couple of people were, but yeah, yeah, well, 1009 00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,919 Speaker 1: I mean that's just it is. How do you get 1010 00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:42,760 Speaker 1: this kind of goes back to when we just first 1011 00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:44,680 Speaker 1: started talking, is how do you get folks to pay 1012 00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:48,439 Speaker 1: attention and get them to realize that there's their stuff 1013 00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:54,000 Speaker 1: here to be felt and had without whatever using musical 1014 00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:57,480 Speaker 1: devices that water everything down where you're trying to use 1015 00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:01,640 Speaker 1: repetition and loudness and big crazy sounds to get their attention, 1016 00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:03,880 Speaker 1: and you know, you make sure not to leave any 1017 00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,080 Speaker 1: spaces in the song because Heaven forbid you lose their 1018 00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:11,080 Speaker 1: attention or they not give it to you. Um you know. 1019 00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:13,640 Speaker 1: So that I think that's one of the challenges for 1020 00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:17,640 Speaker 1: us is as musicians, as we um march on into 1021 00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:22,360 Speaker 1: this technology technology ages, not letting the huge pool that 1022 00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:26,120 Speaker 1: we're swimming in from an industry standpoint where we're trying 1023 00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,280 Speaker 1: to compete for attention or CD sales, whatever you wanna 1024 00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:32,960 Speaker 1: call it, um affect how we actually make our music. Right, 1025 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:35,520 Speaker 1: you still need to make something that is genuine to 1026 00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,160 Speaker 1: yourself otherwise you're not gonna be happy playing it. And 1027 00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:40,120 Speaker 1: then if you're not happy playing you have got zero 1028 00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:43,600 Speaker 1: shot at affecting people emotionally. If you don't affect people emotionally, 1029 00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:45,440 Speaker 1: then they're not going to come to your shows. And 1030 00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:47,600 Speaker 1: that's really all that we got these days. If you 1031 00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:51,040 Speaker 1: gonna want to be in a professional musician, been solely 1032 00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,880 Speaker 1: doing things right. When's the album coming out? The new 1033 00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:59,240 Speaker 1: record Halfway Man's come out September sept Where it's the 1034 00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,880 Speaker 1: best place to buy it? Um, iTunes is a great place. 1035 00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:05,520 Speaker 1: Um these days, you can get it pretty much anywhere, 1036 00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:08,240 Speaker 1: but iTunes is a fine place. And you're on tour 1037 00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:11,200 Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, on tour. We're on tour in our 1038 00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,320 Speaker 1: sweet tour van Tammy as well as on bicycle. All right, 1039 00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:17,200 Speaker 1: this will be coming out probably close to the release 1040 00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:18,600 Speaker 1: date of the CD, so you are going to be 1041 00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:20,960 Speaker 1: on tour this fall as well. Yeah. Absolutely, I'll be 1042 00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,720 Speaker 1: all over the country riding your bike two shows at times. 1043 00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:26,960 Speaker 1: At times we'll be riding our bike. Most times we'll 1044 00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:30,160 Speaker 1: be in our tour van and we'll be hitting all 1045 00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:32,919 Speaker 1: the towns in this country. Ben Silly dot Com. Anything else, 1046 00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:34,920 Speaker 1: I'm good, Ben, Thanks for coming you were like the 1047 00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,200 Speaker 1: best interview, like literally that was that was a little 1048 00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:40,480 Speaker 1: bit cyclical. You know, I had to I had to 1049 00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,320 Speaker 1: work my way around some of those answers. You elevate 1050 00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,040 Speaker 1: it to my friend, but you know good. That's the 1051 00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:47,560 Speaker 1: great thing about this show is that you all let it, 1052 00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:52,680 Speaker 1: let it comes, not try to design it's existence. We 1053 00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:56,760 Speaker 1: would fail. I appreciate that. But traditional wrap up. If 1054 00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:59,040 Speaker 1: you want to get in touch with me and Chuck 1055 00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,520 Speaker 1: and Ben Silly, we can pass things along to him. 1056 01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:04,640 Speaker 1: You can tweet to us at s Why SKA podcast. 1057 01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:07,720 Speaker 1: You can join us on Facebook dot com slash stuff 1058 01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:10,240 Speaker 1: you Should Know, and you can send us an email 1059 01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:20,960 Speaker 1: to Stuff Podcast at Discovery dot com. Killing Young Today 1060 01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:27,200 Speaker 1: that out and feel this on the high. Don't tell 1061 01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:31,439 Speaker 1: me to slow down. You see I grew up this week, tee. 1062 01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:46,520 Speaker 1: This shows in highlights. Don't sucking leaves fell into today, 1063 01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:53,760 Speaker 1: Willow like a time you've been through this Sha looking 1064 01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:59,360 Speaker 1: for hid All I need is one but you yeah, 1065 01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:14,680 Speaker 1: study I guess he is. If you want something down right, oh, 1066 01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:20,520 Speaker 1: you got to do it to say that. If you 1067 01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:25,680 Speaker 1: want something bad enough, you got to do what you say. 1068 01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:38,120 Speaker 1: It's a man in a cage he's started like a 1069 01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:42,920 Speaker 1: feel for the time. We this people who got the 1070 01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:46,640 Speaker 1: right nicking bess on my car? Your sneak or I 1071 01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,000 Speaker 1: can't look. I know this gout to be a day 1072 01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,920 Speaker 1: a way. And if you ain't gonna do it, I 1073 01:01:53,040 --> 01:02:09,120 Speaker 1: guess I'll have to because he and you are something 1074 01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:17,360 Speaker 1: d right. You got to do it. Sit and you 1075 01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:22,520 Speaker 1: are something bad enough. You've got to do it. SI 1076 01:02:26,760 --> 01:03:53,480 Speaker 1: do your chip. They gotta do your chip. H go 1077 01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:58,320 Speaker 1: do you got to do it? Ship, you got to 1078 01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:24,680 Speaker 1: do it. You go. For more on this and thousands 1079 01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:34,800 Speaker 1: of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com, brought 1080 01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:38,000 Speaker 1: to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, 1081 01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:38,520 Speaker 1: Are you