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Speaker 1: Scrap on your parachute. It's time for What Goes Up. Hello,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to What Goes Up, a weekly markets podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Mike Reagan, a senior editor at Bloomberg, and this

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Speaker 1: week on the show, we'll talk about how everyone is

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Speaker 1: expecting this year to be a blockbuster period for the economy,

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Speaker 1: with the Federal Reserve expecting us GDP to grow by

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Speaker 1: six point five. Our guest is optimistic about growth as well,

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Speaker 1: but not quite as optimistic as the Fed. We'll discuss

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Speaker 1: why and what it means for how you should allocate

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Speaker 1: your investments this year. But first, let's let Charlie Pellett

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Speaker 1: tell us who this week's mystery co host is. This

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Speaker 1: week's mystery co host is Scarlet Food. Scarlett is an

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Speaker 1: anchor for Bloomberg Quicktake and a veteran of Bloomberg Television

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Speaker 1: and Bloomberg News. She's an avid mountain bike rider who

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Speaker 1: actually taught Mike Reagan everything he knows about the Bloomberg Rominal.

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Speaker 1: Of course, she's still way faster than Mike, both on

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Speaker 1: a mountain bike and a terminal. You know, Scarlett, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna have to talk to Charlie about these introductions. He's

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Speaker 1: getting some insults in on me there, but it is true.

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Speaker 1: I assume you are still faster on than be on

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Speaker 1: a terminal D bike. I'm faster when I'm typing and

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Speaker 1: using shortcuts on Microsoft Word. I'm not sure about on

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Speaker 1: a mountain bike, especially going downhill. I tend to be

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Speaker 1: pretty cautious when going downhill and uphill. I'm I'm not

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Speaker 1: I'm not too fast either, but we're working on that. Also,

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Speaker 1: being introduced by Charlie Pellett is amazing, isn't that. It's

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Speaker 1: a great pair of of doing this podcast, having Charlie

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Speaker 1: do the intros and and a little insult comedy once

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Speaker 1: in a while as well. But Scarlett talk to us

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Speaker 1: about Quick Take. I'm very excited about all the all

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Speaker 1: the plans in the work for for Quick Take is

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Speaker 1: Chris Paul, NBA star. Chris Paul is going to be

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Speaker 1: doing the show. I hope he doesn't mess up the

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Speaker 1: groove in your seat though now I think, um, he's

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Speaker 1: got his own seat, he's got his own table, he's

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Speaker 1: got his room, he'll be doing his own thing. I'm

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Speaker 1: not totally sure what it's going to be yet. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, even if I did. I couldn't say anything

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Speaker 1: because there's going to be a big release on April.

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Speaker 1: But in the meantime, um we're doing a lot of

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Speaker 1: good work just on covering the business news stories more

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Speaker 1: from a consumer perspective rather than for the Bloomberg Terminal

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Speaker 1: client and customer. So it's a really interesting time, obviously,

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Speaker 1: given what's happening in the markets and the economy, and

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Speaker 1: with all the different social justice movements as well, and

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Speaker 1: this focus on equality, which is something that I've been

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of work on over the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years of Bloomberg Equality. It's excellent. I'm really looking

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Speaker 1: forward to the launch of the new prime time lineup,

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Speaker 1: and of course, as always, you can watch Scarlett anchor

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Speaker 1: during the day. Scarlett really did teach me everything about

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Speaker 1: the terminal. By the way, I don't want to data Scarlett,

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Speaker 1: please go back in two and seven. What siety did?

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Speaker 1: I think you're a little generous with the date there,

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Speaker 1: But that's fine. I'll let you get away with that.

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Speaker 1: Fair enough, fair enough to thousand and it was. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: let's let's bring in our guest here. We're very excited

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Speaker 1: to have him. He is the chief portfolio strategist at

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Speaker 1: State Street Global Advisors, so he can talk about all

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Speaker 1: manner of macro markets and the economic outlook and everything

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Speaker 1: in between. His name is Garv Malick Garve. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the show. Nice to be here, Michael mused to be

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Speaker 1: a scarlet. Well, thanks for thanks for your time. We

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Speaker 1: really appreciate it. And let's start with that discussion about

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Speaker 1: GDP this year. I know you guys are a little

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Speaker 1: more conservative in your estimates, uh for GDP this year

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Speaker 1: than say the fet Is. Walk us through about why

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Speaker 1: that is. I mean, still I think regardless, we can

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Speaker 1: expect a pretty much a blockbuster year for economic growth,

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Speaker 1: especially compared to what we've seen, saying the post financial

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Speaker 1: crisis era. But walk us through what you're thinking about

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Speaker 1: growth this year and kind of how it will play

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Speaker 1: into the markets. Sure, so we aren't expecting a little

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Speaker 1: bit though, as you said, than the than the FED,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to read too much into

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Speaker 1: it as well. I think that our expectation is that

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Speaker 1: both the pasage where things start opening, the pace set

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Speaker 1: which consumers starts spending, business spending starts picking up, all

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Speaker 1: that from a timing standpoint could be a little different

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Speaker 1: than what the FED is assuming right now, So our

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Speaker 1: expectations things are going to take a little bit longer

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Speaker 1: to normalize. So from our perspective one, maybe a little

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Speaker 1: bit behind the FED. But then if you start looking

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Speaker 1: at two, perhaps even a little bit ahead of the

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Speaker 1: FED at at at that point in time. So it's

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Speaker 1: a bit about timing as to what's the path to normalization,

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Speaker 1: and a bit about other factors. I mean, there are

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Speaker 1: some odd things we're seeing in consumer behavior. The fact

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Speaker 1: that you know, stimulus checks went out. People are of

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Speaker 1: course spending a bit of it. People are indeed using

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Speaker 1: it to pay down debt, some of it is going

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Speaker 1: to savings. So all those factors keep us a little

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Speaker 1: bit behind the FED as we look at one, and

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Speaker 1: a little bit ahead perhaps as we look at two.

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Speaker 1: But all in I agree with you, this is going

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Speaker 1: to be a blogbuster year, the best we've seen in decades. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so maybe two or three years out it'll all even

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Speaker 1: out with what the FET is projecting, With what you're projecting.

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Speaker 1: I wonder, though, with the rest of the world opening

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Speaker 1: up at a slower pace than the US, what does

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Speaker 1: that mean in terms of consumption in the United States?

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Speaker 1: Because a lot of the times people are spending their

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Speaker 1: money and they're having these experiences traveling out of the country,

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Speaker 1: spending their dollars outside the US. People aren't really leaving

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Speaker 1: the country. Now, what does that mean for domestic demand

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Speaker 1: and the kind of consumer spending we can expect over

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Speaker 1: the next couple of years. So you're touching on a

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Speaker 1: very pressing point, right. So one of the reasons why

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Speaker 1: in some ways we say that, you know, as we

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Speaker 1: think about not only just US GDP, but global GDP,

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Speaker 1: even in global GDP numbers where perhaps a little bit

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Speaker 1: behind consensus podcasts because exactly what you said, the fact

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Speaker 1: that consumers are going to be spending a bit more domestic,

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Speaker 1: but not as much as they would have spent what

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Speaker 1: they're traveling to. Let's say you're up for or Asia,

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Speaker 1: and we also think that the recovery is going to

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Speaker 1: have a rolling Um, yeah, it's going to be in

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Speaker 1: in wades or role. So right now US is taking

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Speaker 1: the lead. I don't think that the current pace of vaccinations.

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Speaker 1: Everybody knows it's been slow in Europe, but I don't

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Speaker 1: think we should make consumption that will forever be slow

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Speaker 1: in Europe or in Asia. I think they will pick up.

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Speaker 1: So there's gonna be a bit of a baton handing

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Speaker 1: that's going to occur from US to Eurozone, Eurozone to

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Speaker 1: e M. So some dealers occurring as you think about

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Speaker 1: that roll over occurring, but actually correct, the fact that

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Speaker 1: consumers are going to be spending a bit more and

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Speaker 1: domestically does lift up the US, but the fact that

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Speaker 1: they will not be spending as much internationally means perhaps

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Speaker 1: airlines we're not gonna be running as many routes as

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Speaker 1: they do internationally revenue impact, So some of those dealers

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Speaker 1: that might occur because of timing other reasons why you

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Speaker 1: might see some differential behavior. Uh and uh, perhaps some

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Speaker 1: better impact in the US immediately, but then um, you know,

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Speaker 1: some store do as you think about the other parts

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Speaker 1: of the of the globe. Yeah, I do think it's

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Speaker 1: interesting to garb Uh you wrote a little bit about

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Speaker 1: external leakage. Uh, and correct me if I'm misunderstanding that.

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Speaker 1: But I I sort of picture that is, you know,

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Speaker 1: stimulus money being spent by the US government kind of

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Speaker 1: then in turn being spent on on imports and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. Walk us through how you're thinking about that

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Speaker 1: and also how you're thinking about sort of the path

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Speaker 1: going forward for fiscal spending. Um, are we really going

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Speaker 1: to see this infrastructure package that is being discussed or

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Speaker 1: is that is it gonna be you? My guess is

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Speaker 1: we we might have kind of a rocky road to

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Speaker 1: get to that, perhaps perhaps disappointing the markets a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but I'm curious how you're thinking about

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Speaker 1: all those issues. Yeah, so I think that first on

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Speaker 1: your on your interest question about leakage, Yes, absolutely, it's

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Speaker 1: it's sort of you know, party to do with imports,

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Speaker 1: party to do with savings, and I think one of

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Speaker 1: the things that has definitely changed for for the U

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Speaker 1: s consumer from a behavior standpoint. I mean, you guys

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Speaker 1: know this right, Like I don't want to two or

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Speaker 1: two if you were dating your your years or your

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Speaker 1: age perhaps in this process, but clearly you know that

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Speaker 1: two thousand's beginning two thousands of the US consumer was

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Speaker 1: consistently in deficit. We were spending more that we were earning.

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Speaker 1: And then post two thousand eight and g FC, we've

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Speaker 1: seen a change in behavior where the US consumers actually

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Speaker 1: beginning to stay more and that does indeed continue even

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Speaker 1: as we look at the effects of the stimulus, most

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Speaker 1: recently more money being used to pay down debts. But

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Speaker 1: I think part of the behavior actually correct, is that

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Speaker 1: the savings is driving some of that behavior, and some

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Speaker 1: of it is also timing in how consumers choose to

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Speaker 1: spend that money, um, you know, dealaying certain decisions two

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Speaker 1: perhaps later in the year, and all those things do

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Speaker 1: factor in as we as we think about that, the

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Speaker 1: leakage that getting through, and I remembering what was the

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Speaker 1: second question you had, what you think about this next

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Speaker 1: phase of fiscal spending, the infrastructure package that we keep

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Speaker 1: hearing about, is it you know? My guess is it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be that's that's gonna be a tough negotiation, sort

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Speaker 1: of a hard fought negotiation, and perhaps maybe the market

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Speaker 1: might be disappointed. I'm curious what you think. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I think there's two ways to think about it. As

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Speaker 1: I agree with you that there is going to be

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Speaker 1: some disappointment along the way, I think Biden is doing

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Speaker 1: everything you can to make sure we get to some outcome.

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Speaker 1: And everybody acknowledges that this type of spending has to

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Speaker 1: occur for a variety of reasons. Um As you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean you you you said in my Tattle of

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Speaker 1: Chief portal A Strategies. But one of the things I

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Speaker 1: do is I work with various institutions, from sovereign well

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Speaker 1: funds to um pentioned puss across the board. They're hankering

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Speaker 1: for assets that have long duration and give big dreams

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Speaker 1: of income, you know, beyond thirty years. Even so there

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Speaker 1: is a need for for the infrast spend that has

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Speaker 1: demand on every side, it is going to be a

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Speaker 1: little bit difficult. So you know, I agree with that aspect.

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Speaker 1: I think the way we think about it in some

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Speaker 1: ways from a market standpoint, our ship heres for a

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Speaker 1: second here, So how do we play that to have

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Speaker 1: the greatest chance of success in terms of getting the

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Speaker 1: returns we expect from that from the Biden stimulus. And

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Speaker 1: we think the highest beta for that is actually material

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Speaker 1: It's a sector which has you know, blight constraints around it.

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Speaker 1: It's a sector in which we don't see we see

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Speaker 1: we see a lot of discipline in terms of ongoing investments.

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Speaker 1: So when we think about playing out the Biden scenario

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Speaker 1: versus what actually gets realized, we think materials is a

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Speaker 1: good place to be. To some extent, industrials too, but

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Speaker 1: Butterios is a nice place to be for for a

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Speaker 1: reasonable length of time to to play the Biden in

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Speaker 1: pron plan. I'm glad you bring up infrastructure, Mike, because

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Speaker 1: my son is looking to be a structural engineer, because

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Speaker 1: he is graduating from high school this year, and Mike

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Speaker 1: and I talk a lot about this whole process of

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Speaker 1: getting your kids to college, and hopefully there will be

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Speaker 1: some bridges and tunnels for him to construct once he graduates.

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Speaker 1: Um garlf, I want to at your thoughts on the

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Speaker 1: labor market, in particular the labor shortage that we seem

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Speaker 1: to see across so many different parts of the economy.

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Speaker 1: Whether it's in the um seasonal hospitality industry or the

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Speaker 1: trucking industry. Everyone's saying that they're going to have to

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Speaker 1: start paying workers more to get more people into these

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Speaker 1: kinds of jobs. How are you thinking about wage inflation

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Speaker 1: and what that means for your investments? Yeah, so, I

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Speaker 1: think that the way we think about BIGE infressution is

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Speaker 1: what are the temporary pressures and then what are sustainable

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Speaker 1: long term pressures. On a temporary basis, there is a

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Speaker 1: lot of pressure on page right. So not only is

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Speaker 1: it all the segments and sectors you spoke about where

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Speaker 1: there is a shortage of labor. Also the ongoing pressures

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Speaker 1: to raise the minimum page. Now, the question worth while

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Speaker 1: asking is that is this something that it starts in

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Speaker 1: one What is this something that results in a sustainable

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Speaker 1: move where we can expect to see uh, some reasonable

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Speaker 1: levels of aage growth the the next three to five years.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's the place where we struggle. So

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Speaker 1: we do think that temporary shortages are going to be there.

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Speaker 1: But as things open, as we get closer to that

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Speaker 1: full employment number, we're still faced with the sustain problem

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Speaker 1: that we had in some ways in the Trump administration.

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Speaker 1: Right that you had full employment, you had labor shortages.

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Speaker 1: You did see some page growth, but nothing that leaked

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Speaker 1: its way through for there to be inflation on our

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Speaker 1: more sustained basis. So I would say temporary pressures. Definitely,

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Speaker 1: it's going to play itself out, and do see a

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Speaker 1: bit more of a ship that coming towards labor versus

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Speaker 1: capital call it. However, for it to be sustained, I

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Speaker 1: think there's more investments we need to make in in

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Speaker 1: fine productivity, in tech, those things duty to continue fast

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Speaker 1: rates so that workers indeed can have more sustained sources

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Speaker 1: of earning those pages and for us to see a

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Speaker 1: sustained growth in those So mich and are selfishly wondering here,

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Speaker 1: um whether that means his daughter and my son will

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Speaker 1: actually be able to make a living weight and not

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Speaker 1: live in our homes. I mean, I think that you know,

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Speaker 1: you've also think the trend right that college educated. I

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Speaker 1: think that that's an area that continues to gunner and

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Speaker 1: and continues to have some reasonable level of our gaining power.

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Speaker 1: So I think may the future that is the writer

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Speaker 1: Scarlett's talk about dating us there with with our college

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Speaker 1: bound that's really true. But I'm just impressed your son

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Speaker 1: has a major picked out. My daughter's fluctuates depending on

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Speaker 1: what show she has binge watching. So she's watching Gray's

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Speaker 1: Anatomy for a while and wanted to be a pediatrician,

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Speaker 1: and then uh moved on to something else, and I

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Speaker 1: think it was FBI Agent for a while. So I

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Speaker 1: gotta get her back. They need to add more seasons

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Speaker 1: to Gray's Anatomy because I want to get her back

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Speaker 1: back that focus. But but you know, the whole market

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Speaker 1: until let's say about three weeks ago, a month ago

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Speaker 1: was just entirely fixated by what we were seeing in

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Speaker 1: the treasury market, and this sort of sudden jolt higher

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Speaker 1: in yields fields have since cooled cooled off a little bit. Um.

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Speaker 1: It kind of looks at least like a short term

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Speaker 1: high possibly maybe perhaps is in um, but I wonder

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Speaker 1: if that is really true. I mean, how are you

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Speaker 1: thinking about yields? Um? Is this cooling off period that

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Speaker 1: we're seeing here now doomed to fail or higher yields

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Speaker 1: just inevitable given the the backdrop of GDP growth that

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Speaker 1: we're seeing and at least a short term pickup of inflation.

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Speaker 1: I mean, is this kind of a a bowl trap

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Speaker 1: for for treasury fires right here? Well? I mean I

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Speaker 1: think that some level of the yields going up I

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Speaker 1: think has to happen with the amount of growth we're seeing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, on a long term basis, and

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Speaker 1: your yells should be mirroring whatever is the GDP growth.

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Speaker 1: The cut and pick up obviously five six for for

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Speaker 1: US or six is obviously not sustainable. You start looking

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Speaker 1: at for three years, you're looking again at the two

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Speaker 1: two and a half percent number. So some move up

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Speaker 1: definitely going to happen. The question is how much. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, we don't see it going much beyond the

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Speaker 1: at the two and a quarter or two and a half.

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Speaker 1: Uh And if anything, if we saw yields broach past

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Speaker 1: those levels, I actually we'll be thinking about saying, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe we should extend duration and those situations. I mean,

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Speaker 1: on a on a um broad basis, across the portfolios,

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Speaker 1: we're under reponds, we're under a duration. But as it

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Speaker 1: approaches us those levels, we think there may be room

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Speaker 1: to think about buying treasuries. I mean, keep in mind

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Speaker 1: that there are these long term pressures that the FED

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Speaker 1: has to deal with, and some of these are political

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Speaker 1: in nature too. Things. You know, we spoke about page

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Speaker 1: growth the spook, but college educated um inequality continues to

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Speaker 1: rise and impact through the pandemic. Some of these structural

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Speaker 1: forces like inequality have increased over this period. That is

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Speaker 1: going to put a lid on how much high rates

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Speaker 1: the FED will tolerate. The language out of the Fed

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Speaker 1: on extended stimulus and what they need to start breaking

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Speaker 1: out suggest to us that you can see yields move up.

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Speaker 1: There is definitely room to move up in such a

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Speaker 1: robust growth environment. Not beyond certain high levels though, uh

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Speaker 1: and for us that number is somewhere around you know,

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Speaker 1: call it to one at quarter two and a half

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Speaker 1: where we start seeing you know, the other way downward

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Speaker 1: pressure occurring. The other thing to keep in mind is

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Speaker 1: that much as we can have a long term various

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Speaker 1: view on bonds, the fact that institutional investors on long

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Speaker 1: term basis do need long duration assets just to meet

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Speaker 1: their their their obligations, and the fact that still when

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Speaker 1: you think about hedging against any shocks and the equity markets,

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Speaker 1: the long duration treasuries are seriously your best bet. And

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Speaker 1: and it's it's it's interesting that if you look at

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Speaker 1: the fit of post GFC, even though we've seen all

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Speaker 1: these forces play out in terms of globalization, taking a

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Speaker 1: step back on a trade basis, financial globalization, the effect

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Speaker 1: of the dollar has simply increased in markets. So even

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Speaker 1: if you're sitting in in India today or China and

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Speaker 1: you want to hedge some of these strop positions, well,

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Speaker 1: US Freddy is still really good use to do that,

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Speaker 1: So demand plust. The fact that that it is really

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Speaker 1: one of your best diversifiers puts a lid on half

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Speaker 1: far the the Treasury dells can go up. How do

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Speaker 1: you see foreign demand for treasuries playing into this? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know a lot of it ties back to how

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Speaker 1: different economies in the emerging markets are faring. But do

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Speaker 1: you see demand from the likes of China, from Japan,

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Speaker 1: from other countries around the world changing at all in

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Speaker 1: the next forceable future in the next year. I know,

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Speaker 1: I don't see that changing materially. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: that there is always competition as to which currency can

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Speaker 1: be a strong substitute reserve to to the dollar, But

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Speaker 1: really nothing has emerged in China's trying gets best to

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Speaker 1: position the remember as a use of currency. We've seen

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Speaker 1: the Euro do that and take away some market share,

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Speaker 1: but I think still the main res of currency, the

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Speaker 1: main buyer of things in the world. The fact that

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Speaker 1: we still run a pretty heavy kind of down deficit

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Speaker 1: here tells us that demand for US as that US

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Speaker 1: treasuries is going to continue today and go fast. I

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Speaker 1: think the other thing to keep in mind also is

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Speaker 1: that right now, as we look from a market perspective,

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Speaker 1: as we think about earnings growth, we think about growth.

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Speaker 1: Everything we've been discussing so far, you know, US exceptionalism

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Speaker 1: continues across the board. That means that investor is outside

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Speaker 1: the US certainly demand more and more US assets. So

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Speaker 1: I don't see the demand situation changing that dramatic and

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Speaker 1: dramatically because of course the unique status they're enjoys it.

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Speaker 1: You know, Garv, I'm famous for asking like twelve part questions,

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Speaker 1: but I'm gonna take it easy on you and don't

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Speaker 1: only ask a two part question. And that is because

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Speaker 1: I know you guys at State Street you know a

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Speaker 1: thing or two about e t f s if I'm

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Speaker 1: not mistaken, And we've just seen such a massive inflow

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Speaker 1: into e t f s this year, mutual funds as well,

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Speaker 1: but really I popping inflows in the in the e

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Speaker 1: t f s. So so two parts to that, Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious for the first part, where is that demand

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Speaker 1: coming from? You know, is it the pensions and the

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Speaker 1: institutions you talked about earlier, or is it the sort

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Speaker 1: of reddit in Wall Street bets crowd or isn't even

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Speaker 1: all of the above, I guess perhaps. And also you know,

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Speaker 1: as as as at just such as yourself, Um, you

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Speaker 1: know what you're you're thinking about how you should allocate

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Speaker 1: your portfolios, and we can use, you know, hypothetically useing

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Speaker 1: all et F portfolio how you would advise let's just say,

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Speaker 1: hypothetically a middle aged guy who's got some kids head

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Speaker 1: in the college and and it's, uh, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a scarity cat a little right. So I think we've

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Speaker 1: definitely seen abidening of the use of e d S.

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Speaker 1: I mean, e d S has served really very strongly,

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Speaker 1: certainly through crisis periods like last year, in terms of

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Speaker 1: providing investors with liquidity transparent pricing, which has meant that

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Speaker 1: its role has certainly expanded. So it's not it's it's

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Speaker 1: certainly used for increasingly for cash actualization. We saw it

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Speaker 1: use a lot for rest transfer, you know, I want

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Speaker 1: to shot something, I don't want to take an a

385
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Speaker 1: beat in the marketplace, um or kind of classic swap

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Speaker 1: type arrangements that have been restricted to derivatives increasingly being

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Speaker 1: media being used for for that tactical positioning. I think

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Speaker 1: that's probably been an area that's the immense growth as

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Speaker 1: liquidity has increased within the e d F landscape that

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00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,440
Speaker 1: there is a lot more of that tactical views on

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Speaker 1: either a specific sector, tob sector or or of course

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Speaker 1: more broadly in in markets. So that's on the on

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Speaker 1: the used side of the d F in terms of

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Speaker 1: how you should think about your allocation again keeping your

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Speaker 1: hypothetical person in mind, so um, so you know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's clearly a trade off between how much you want

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Speaker 1: to be in growth versus safety assets and what do

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Speaker 1: you do about income. We are biased more towards risk assets.

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Speaker 1: That means equities to some extent commodities, Um, we do

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Speaker 1: like those. I think we keep a structural position in

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Speaker 1: in both the long duation as I as I spoke

402
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Speaker 1: to you about, and and we do like gold for

403
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Speaker 1: its diversifying capabilities. All the incentives are going have come

404
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Speaker 1: down with a with a pickup in in yields. I

405
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Speaker 1: think want to also think about also in the ways

406
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Speaker 1: of making your your income, So you know, should that

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Speaker 1: mean playing more with dividends, looking at alternatives like convertible

408
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 1: or senior loans, infrastructure, so things like that that gets

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Speaker 1: you the income statement. Given that most investors and we

410
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Speaker 1: do advocate in this environment in general to be underweight bonds,

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Speaker 1: I think you're losing out that that income stream. To

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Speaker 1: try and put some kind of a structuring place that

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Speaker 1: gets you to the heart of that that income stream.

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Speaker 1: I think alternative assets, as you think about dividends, as

415
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Speaker 1: I said, as you think about senior loans, converts, those

416
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Speaker 1: are all becoming more attractive to get to that that

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Speaker 1: that income streams. How much are our hypothetical investor who's

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Speaker 1: got a couple of kids heading to college put into

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Speaker 1: the likes of bitcoin? I mean you mentioned e t

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Speaker 1: F UM. I think there are at least eight e

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Speaker 1: t F bitcoin e t F that have been filed

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Speaker 1: and we have no idea when the SEC is actually

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Speaker 1: going to green light any of these. Speaking scaredy cats,

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Speaker 1: I mean there's one the SEC when it comes to

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Speaker 1: bitcoin ETFs. Is bitcoin something that should be part of

426
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Speaker 1: your portfolio? Are you looking to perhaps allocate some space

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Speaker 1: to that? Well, I mean the bitcoin is a toughy right,

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Speaker 1: I mean if you look at the long term behavior,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, bit points move up has got

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Speaker 1: to do with scarcity and it's got to do much

431
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Speaker 1: like gold, and it's got to do it. Yeah, the

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00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 1: fact that it's you know, it's it perceived to be

433
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 1: a sort of sort of value. If you looked at

434
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: the long term relationship between using bitcoint as a head

435
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: in any way, UM on a longer basis doesn't do

436
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: much better than than gold. In fact, it would say

437
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 1: goal is way better than than bitcoin in that in

438
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: that regard more recently, with all the moves that you've seen,

439
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 1: it indeed does do a better job of providing some

440
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: um some diversification benefit more than mind with with gold.

441
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: But you do have to live with the fact that

442
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: the volutarity is much higher. We do struggle to say

443
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: what that is it a and assets, the part of

444
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: a coal holding or not. I think it's a tough

445
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 1: one to make a call around, but I think that

446
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 1: investage need to pay attention to it because of just

447
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: the fact that it is rising. There's a whole bunch

448
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: of cryptocurrencies that are coming about, There's a desire for

449
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: countries to be thinking about digitizing their currency. So given

450
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 1: that whole complex nos evolving, h it does involve consideration

451
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: actually adding it to a portfolio. If everybody did that,

452
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: then of course demand for these things would spite up

453
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: like no one's business. So that part needs to be

454
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: needs to be kept in the background. Something worth looking

455
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: at UM. I'm not sure it really to step out

456
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 1: and say that it's something that's an essential part of

457
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: investors portfolios, and if we were choosing, I would say

458
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: still for that diversification benefit and the fact that you

459
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: have so much monetary fiscal stimulus occurting on a double basis,

460
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 1: gold does it have a role to play in your

461
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: your holdings and in your in your broad acid Garth,

462
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you said gold is better than bitcoin

463
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: on this podcast. This this is a safe space for

464
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: ideas like that. If you if you had taken that

465
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 1: take to Twitter, I would have feared for your your

466
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: future mental health. Let's let's just say but one last

467
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: thing before we get to the craziest things we saw

468
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 1: in markets this week. UM. I know you've done a

469
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 1: lot of work looking at liquidity, and obviously we saw

470
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 1: major liquidity issues in the treasury market last year. Um,

471
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: after that seven year note auction a few weeks ago,

472
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 1: it almost looked like deja vu to that really sort

473
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: of liquidity crisis we saw backter in the height of

474
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: the pandemic. If you were if you were going to

475
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: stay up at night worrying about liquidity in a certain market,

476
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: is would it be the treasury market or is it

477
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: the type of thing where a liquidity crisis. You don't

478
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: really know where it's going to be until it happens.

479
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,239
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think that you do need to think

480
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: about the treasy market, right because you think about the expectations, right.

481
00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 1: I mean, we do expect it to be an agent

482
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: on extremes here, but we do expect that to be

483
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: the liquidly as you move away from the dollar to

484
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: following the other end to e M currencies, right. I

485
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: mean we know liquiiti is a lot less in those

486
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: markets versus here or treasuries as you devenment securities as

487
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: you start going out from d M to EM and

488
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: then e M two um smaller countries within that within

489
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: that complex. So yes, it does one of some conservation

490
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: because it challenges notions about as a market running smoothly

491
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: or not running smoothly. And that's why doesn't need to

492
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: pay attention to what is occurtting around that. Again, I

493
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: don't want to sound alarm bells here. I think that

494
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,959
Speaker 1: what all we do think that would all the efforts

495
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: the FED is taken. Broadly speaking, markets are reasonably well

496
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: functioning and liquid in general. The quick conditions have been

497
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: pretty reasonable. But again, something we think about we worry

498
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: about it because any frees up on liquidity in federies

499
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: has a ripple effect that goes through a range of markets. Absolutely,

500
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: the contagion happens in stantaneously, I guess instantaneously. Yeah, exactly exactly.

501
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: And and you know, just to re attrade the effect

502
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: of US dollar, U S fasuries and US extertionalism across

503
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: global markets on a financial basis, I want to be clear,

504
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: I said that financial basis, not not paid basis. We've

505
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: seen every country getting a bit more domestic um on

506
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 1: a on a globle basis, has just increased cross post GFC.

507
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: Is there any risk to get back to that dollar

508
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: as the reserve currency? Any risk to that status in

509
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: your mind? I think that's what the the bitcoin people

510
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: would would tell you on Twitter. But I'm curious what

511
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: you think. I mean. You know, we as we started

512
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 1: putting out our outlook last year, so sort of October,

513
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: and when we sit down and think about what what

514
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 1: is it we expect to look at a market, we

515
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: definitely advocated the investors need to pay attention to China

516
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons. Right, you know, I'm I'm

517
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: not going to take a political stance here what my

518
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: views maybe on one versus the other it but I

519
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: do think that as you look at the efforts the

520
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: country is putting in place in Chinese economy, is putting

521
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: in place videos he's putting in place too. UM call

522
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 1: it make it a more global currency with an eye

523
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,479
Speaker 1: on it having reserved status. I think it's It's definitely

524
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: something that investors should pay attention to. Investors should pay

525
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 1: attention to the fact that it's now the second largest economy,

526
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: and then you can look at your forecasts. People are

527
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: more optimistic pessimistic, but somewhere you're looking in the next

528
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: pack to ten years, it's likely to be bigger than

529
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: the US. In that environment, it can be a competitor.

530
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: So it's something that investors should keep and keep an

531
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: eye out for. Scarlett I will often compare the podcast

532
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: to like a good four course meal. We just had

533
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: a very nutritious discussion there about markets. Now it's time

534
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: for the dessert. It's that time tiden up your straight jackets.

535
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: It's time for the craziest things we saw in markets

536
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: this week, Scarlett, I have a lot of faith in

537
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: you to provide us with something good in the crazyest

538
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: things category. For this week, What do you have for us? Okay,

539
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: so we remember you and I definitely because we've got

540
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: kids heading to college. Can you tell that this is

541
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: an obsession of mine? UM. The whole operation Varsity blues

542
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: from a couple of years ago where parents who are

543
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: paying schools. Uh No, not schools directly, but they're paying

544
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: Rick Singer for a side door entrance into elite universities. UM.

545
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: There's a good story on the Bloomberg News terminal today

546
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: that uh I was talking about Chinese students paying agents,

547
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: these consulting firms up to twelve THO dollars first shot

548
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: at an entry level job at investment banks. Michael Sacks,

549
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: like JP Morgan, I don't know that these are side doors.

550
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: It's not quite a side door, and it's not clear

551
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: that this is there's anything wrong with this, but these

552
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: programs offer an inside track to students. They pair them

553
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: with bankers to help with strategy, networking, drafting letters, internal referrals,

554
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: touting success in landing these jobs anywhere from Shanghai to

555
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: New York. They target all the big major firms, they

556
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: target Citadel, hedge funds, consultants. It's just an interesting UM

557
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: story to keep in mind, Mike, as you and I

558
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: prepared to, yeah, spend lots of money on schools, and

559
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: then in the years to come, lots of money to

560
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: help them potentially get jobs in Wall Street. So you're

561
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: saying I should reserve a spare twelve thousand per per kid.

562
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: I guess all all for the right. I should point

563
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: out to go work what twenty three and a half

564
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: hours stay, that's right, not get enough sleep and work

565
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: all through Saturday. Even though Goldman Sacks and the other

566
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:00,239
Speaker 1: firms say that they should get their free saturdays they

567
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: I guess it all. It would all pay off in

568
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,479
Speaker 1: the long run. I wonder if they get or they

569
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: guaranteed a job, is it a money back guarantee if

570
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: they can't place your kid in a bank? I wonder.

571
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: I did not see any of that. There's no money

572
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: back guarantee noted here. But there are a bunch of

573
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: different websites, a bunch of different firms, so they all

574
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: have to offer some competitive advantage. That's that's pretty interesting. Hey, Garth,

575
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: what's your what's your offer for getting my kid a

576
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: an internship with you? And what we're talking after the podcast?

577
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: So I have, like you know, I mean, I'll give you,

578
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: I'll give you two things to think about it. I

579
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: think that one thing market space for a second, right,

580
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: I mean weeks is bill, it's long term averages. I

581
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: mean you know, that thing just blows my mind out.

582
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: I think when we look at it, we do recognize

583
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: that is a lot of good things to look at

584
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: on the economic environment. But we're sitting on spid is

585
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,959
Speaker 1: above it two one a day, moving average above it's

586
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: ninety average, bixet extreme THO levels of complacency. That's something

587
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: that that we spent a lot of time thinking about

588
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: and care about. Uh. And then the other thing that

589
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: keeps my attention is what's it getting with the oscar

590
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: so um as you know there is there is a

591
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: lot of heat in that category. This year with Chadwick Boseman,

592
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: I was looking to see the odds would have shifted

593
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: between Anthony Hopkins and muh As was the first Muslim

594
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: of cost to be nominated for the oscars, and have

595
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: seen some shifts occurred in that regard. My money is

596
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,719
Speaker 1: still on Chadwick Boseman, but I'm looking to see if

597
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: Riz gives him, gives him a bit of proun for

598
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: his money. Garbs. Scarlett is perking up here, and she's

599
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: like our resident gossip columnist at Bloomberg. If you if

600
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: you ever want to catch the latest gossip, check out

601
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: and you're on the terminal, check out Scarlet's message nine.

602
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: She'll give you the latest. I'll make sure what's the latest? Scarlett?

603
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I have not updated that in a

604
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: while because I cannot get into the whole influencer economy

605
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: and the whole um reality show economy. Like I still

606
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: like celebrities, you know, minted the old fashioned way making movies.

607
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: So I'm a little out of step here. I'm this

608
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: podcast is all about showing our age. Mike, what happened?

609
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: How did you run into this? We can't we can't

610
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: hide anymore, we can't hide. Well, I'll show you how

611
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: out of touch I am with the influencers of the

612
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: world with my craziest thing. I'm going all the way

613
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: back to one of my favorite influencers of all time,

614
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: and that's Guy Fiery. You remember him, the restaurant owner. Yeah,

615
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 1: the the diners, drive ins and dives he cut. Yeah,

616
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: it's great. I could watch that. It's almost like I

617
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: ate a meal after watching it. So satisfying the stuff,

618
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: stuff I would never really eat in real life, but I,

619
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: you know, vicariously live live through Guy Fierry. This relates

620
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: back to the crypto conversation. Because Bitcoin is just not

621
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: crazy enough to make it into the craziest things. We've

622
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: got to go and move on to the new crypto

623
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: sensation doge coin, as Katie Gray felt like to call

624
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: it doggy coin, and it jumped from eight cents to

625
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: fourteen cents on I think there's between Tuesday and Wednesday

626
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: and he can laugh, ha ha. Eight cents to fourteen

627
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: cents whatever. That's a seventy game for anyone who's who's

628
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 1: holding this thing. And it was all because none other

629
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: than Guy Fiery tweeted out a picture of him in

630
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: a space suit with the doge coin uh mascots. His

631
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: picture was in the space suit helmet and it said

632
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 1: doge coin to the moon or something to that extent.

633
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: So Guy Fierry of Diners, Drive Ins and Dives fare

634
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 1: is now pumping doge coin on Twitter and it seems

635
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 1: to be working a good four cent pop for six

636
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: cents pop in doge coin, all thanks to the Diners,

637
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: Drive Ins, and and Dives host Guy Ferry. So I

638
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: don't know how this happens where all of a sudden,

639
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: guy like that is uh, it's pumping doge point if

640
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: someone got to home and and offered some monetary compensation

641
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: for that tweet, I don't know. I hate to impugne

642
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: Guy Fierry's character in the in the crypto markets, but

643
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: all at all, pretty good offering of crazy things this

644
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: week from from you two, and I really appreciate your time.

645
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Speaker 1: Scarlet Foo and Garth Malick, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: your time this week. Enjoyed every minute of it. Same yeah,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for the game of time O great. Well,

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Speaker 1: hopefully we can have you both back again someday and

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Speaker 1: find even crazier things that talk about what goes up.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back next week. Until then, you can find

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Speaker 1: us on the Bloomberg Terminal website and app or wherever

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00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. We'd love it if you took

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00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: the time to rate and review the show on Apple

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Speaker 1: Podcasts so more listeners can find us. And you can

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Speaker 1: find us on Twitter follow me at reag Anonymous. Our

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Speaker 1: guest host, Scarlett is at Scarlet Foo. You can also

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Speaker 1: follow Bloomberg Podcast at at Podcasts, and thank you to

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Speaker 1: Charlie Pellett of Bloomberg Radio and the voice of the

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00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 1: New York City subway system. What Goes Up is produced

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Speaker 1: by Laura Carlson. The head of Bloomberg Podcasts is Francesco Levy.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. To see you next time.