WEBVTT - The Real Tea with Annie Costabile 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.320 Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're considering 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:06.440 dyeing our hair bright pink to match the stud buds. 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:07.920 Can we pull it off? 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:10.799 It's Thursday, July twelfth, and on today's show, we'll be 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:14.000 chatting with Annie Costable, now a front office sports, about 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:17.280 our new gig, the biggest surprises so far this WNBA season, 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:21.360 and the historic tea that fuels today's rivalries. Plus a 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.440 reminder that your fandom comes with a side of civic duty. 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:28.920 Is TBA a worthwhile cause? And an accidental irish Goodbye? 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:36.960 It's all coming up right after this welcome back slices. 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:41.479 Here's what you need to know today. Let's start with hockey. 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:45.880 The PWHL expansion Draft was Monday night, and wow, let's 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:48.960 just say Vancouver and Seattle should both be in contention 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:52.120 for the Walter Cup in their inaugural seasons. Both teams 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:55.040 entered Monday night's draft having already signed five players during 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.400 the initial signing window, but they're now up to twelve 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:00.880 apiece following a seven round snake draft, and Couver solidified 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:04.120 its reputation as a defensive giant by selecting Ottawa defender 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:06.520 Ashton Bell with the first pick of the night, while 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:09.959 Seattle added a slew of offensive weapons, with selections including 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:14.040 Boston's Hannahbilka, New York's Jesse Aldridge, and Toronto's Julia Gosling. 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.399 We'll link to the full draft results in the show 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:21.160 Notes to the WNBA. Former Chicago skyguard Ali Quigley has 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:24.680 officially announced her retirement from basketball, three years after she 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:26.960 played her last game. In an essay published and The 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:29.399 Player's Tribune on Tuesday, Quigley wrote that she didn't mean 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:32.559 to irish goodbye the WNBA, but after one off season 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:36.040 turned into two, and two seasons off turned into three. 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:37.640 She realized she was done. 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.319 Quigley and her wife, Courtney Van der Slute, also welcomed 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:44.240 their first child, Jana Christine, earlier this year. Quigley played 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.800 fourteen seasons in the WNBA, spending nearly her entire career 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:49.680 with her hometown team, the Chicago Sky. 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:51.040 She retires as a. 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:54.760 Three time All Star and four time three point shootout champion, 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:58.440 a record for both the WNBA and NBA for shootout wins. 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.240 Congrats to Ali, But between this and Courtney's ACL injury, 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:04.200 I guess I got to put the Vander quig shirt 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:06.920 I brought back out for this season back in my closet. 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:08.280 More WNBA. 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:10.520 The Dallas Wings will be without Ty Harris for the 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:12.880 rest of the season after the guard underwent successful knee 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:16.120 surgery on Tuesday. Harris played five games to start the season, 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:18.640 averaging four point six points, but had been out since 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:20.919 late May with a knee injury. In a statement, the 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:23.399 Wings said Harris is expected to make a full recovery. 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:24.680 More hoops. 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.280 Letitia me Here is back with the Golden State Valkyries. 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.160 The former South Carolina standout played the last two seasons 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:32.560 with the Atlanta Dream and then attended training camp with 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:35.120 Golden State before getting waived ahead of the start of 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:37.640 the season. But on Sunday, the Valkyrie announced that the 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:40.200 team had re signed to me Here after waving kaya 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:42.200 Linskins and That's not All. 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:43.800 On Tuesday, with Julie van. 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.280 Leu heading off to compete in the Summer's EuroBasket Tournament, 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:49.279 the Valks announce that the team has also signed Aerial Powers. 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:52.720 More WNBA All Star voting gets underway today at two 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:55.799 pm Eastern and runs through Saturday, June twenty eighth. Over 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:57.480 the next couple weeks, fans will be able to vote 0:02:57.480 --> 0:02:59.560 for which players they think should be starters in this 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.880 year's All Star festivities, which will be held in Indianapolis's 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:06.480 Gainbridge Field House on July nineteenth. Fans account for fifty 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.000 percent of the vote, while current players and media account 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.080 for twenty five percent each. During the voting window, fans 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:15.320 may submit one ballot each day via WNBA dot com 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:17.920 and the WNBA app. We'll link to the voting page 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:20.120 in our show notes, so make sure to get those 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:24.600 ballots in. To swimming, Canadian superstar and three time Olympic 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:28.200 gold medalist Summer McIntosh set two world records this week 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.720 at Canadian national team trials. First, on Saturday, the eighteen 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:33.600 year old broke the world record in the four hundred 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:36.280 meter freestyle, taking more than a second off of the 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:39.520 previous mark set by Ariana Titmas of Australia in twenty 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:40.160 twenty three. 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:41.720 Then, on Monday night. 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:43.880 McIntosh broke the world record in the two hundred meter 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:47.640 individual medley, which was previously set by Hungary Katinka Jozu 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:51.280 in twenty fifteen. Ann McIntosh is not done yet. We're 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:53.720 recording this ahead of Wednesday night's four hundred meter im 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.680 final where she could be on world record watch again. 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.640 This all sets up an exciting showdown ahead of next 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.560 month's World Championships in Singapore, where McIntosh is expected to 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:05.560 go head to head against US DR Katie. 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:07.200 Ldeki in the four hundred meter free. 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:10.320 McIntosh also has the chance at that competition to become 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:12.880 the only swimmer other than Michael Phelps, to win five 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:16.120 individual gold medals at a single World Championship competition. 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:18.080 To softball and. 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.280 A little bit of ratings news, ESPN announced that this 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:23.599 year's women's College World Series was the most watched in history, 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:26.880 averaging one point two million viewers per game, up twenty 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.280 four percent year over year, and the finals set its 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.719 own viewership record, with the best of three series between 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.040 Texas and Texas Tech averaging two point two million viewers. 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.960 We love to see it. Finally, a reminder that albeit 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.880 tonight's Aurora FC game, when our side takes on the 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.920 Chicago City Dutch Lines at TCO Stadium in Egan, Minnesota, 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:48.000 if you're around, come say hi and get a good 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:53.400 game sticker. All right, slices, it's time for another edition 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.359 of Give Me a Minute. Although I did like the 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:58.599 suggestion that we call this the squeeze. 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.240 So we're so calling this a TBA name. 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:05.039 Let's bring in producer Alex Hi Alex Hello, and producer 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:06.320 me Shai me Zip. 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.880 You guys like the squeeze, I do, because the juice 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:10.880 is worth the squeeze. 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.000 You know, the juice is worth the squeeze. All right, Well, 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:15.560 we may be back next time with the new name. 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:17.640 For this time, we'll call it give me a minute, 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:20.360 but I think we're gonna need about five for this one. 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:20.800 Okay. 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.440 So today I wanted to talk about a mistake I made. 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.520 I made the mistake of using social media to talk 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:27.560 about a tough topic, and it's something that I've really 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.159 stopped doing in recent years. I used to spend a 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:32.920 lot of time on Twitter and Facebook and other places 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.839 engaging with folks, trying to talk through tough ideas, trying 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:39.760 to discourage problematic thinking, or shout down stereotypes and bullshit 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:42.359 holding women back in the sports world, or try to 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.760 discourage the spread of wrongheaded, moronic ideas about serious issues 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:47.800 that I was covering in sports, like domestic violence and 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.320 sexual assault. It felt worth it at the time, but 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.200 as Twitter got more and more full of bots and 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:54.800 engagement started to be paid for. 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:56.360 I stopped using it for. 0:05:56.320 --> 0:06:00.440 That entirely, but Tuesday night on Blue Sky, I dipped 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:02.120 a toe in. I wanted to offer up a thought 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:04.520 on the folks that I saw attacking Simone Biles for 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.600 what they considered walking back her stance supporting trans athletes. 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:09.039 Let me catch you up on this. 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:13.640 So noted trans phobe and terrible person, Riley Gains responded 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.120 to a tweet celebrating a high school softball team state 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.960 championship win, and she wrote comments off lol to be 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:24.240 expected when your star player is a boy. Biles responded, 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.880 You're truly sick all of this campaigning because you lost 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:30.839 a race, straight up sore loser. You should be uplifting 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:34.080 the trans community and perhaps finding way to make sports inclusive, 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.160 or creating a new avenue where trans feels safe in sports, 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.760 maybe a transgender category in all sports, but instead you 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:43.440 bully them. One thing's for sure is no one in 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.240 sports is safe with you around now. 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:47.920 Predictably, hordes of. 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:51.920 Awful people started attacking Biles, including Riley Gains herself, weaponizing 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.480 Biles victimization by doctor Larry Nassar. So yesterday, in light 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.680 of all of that, Biles posted this I wanted to 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.160 follow up for my last tweets. I've always believed competitive 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:03.760 equity and inclusivity are both essential in sport. The current 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:06.920 system doesn't adequately balance these important principles, which often leads 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.680 to frustration and heated exchanges, and it didn't help for 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:11.280 me to get personal with Riley, which. 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:11.880 I apologize for. 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.520 These are sensitive, complicated issues that I truly don't have 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:16.600 all the answers or solutions to, but I believe it 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.120 starts with empathy and respect. I was not advocating for 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:22.200 policies that compromise fairness in women's sports. My objection is 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:24.560 to be singling out children for public scrutiny in ways 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:28.200 that feel personal and harmful. Individual athletes, especially kids, should 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:30.600 never be the focus of criticism of a flawed system 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.320 they have no control over. I believe sports organizations have 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:36.160 a responsibility to come up with rules supporting inclusion while 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:38.880 maintaining fair competition. We all want a future for sport 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:42.920 that is fair, inclusive, and respectful. Xoxo, Simone. Now, I 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:45.120 saw a lot of folks alleging that Biles was a 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:48.200 weak ally, that she backtracked on her support, and that 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.240 she apologized to Riley Gaines, who isn't deserving of an apology. 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:55.400 I disagreed, so I posted to Blue Sky Simone apologizing 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:58.400 for taking a personal shot at Riley g while reiterating 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:02.240 her belief in prioritizing inclusive while also seeking fairness. Isn't 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:05.320 backtracking or being a bad ally. Folks are still allowed 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:08.520 to care about their own behavior even if others are trash, 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.160 and there is nuance to the convo, which is what 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:13.880 I want to talk about with y'all today, Alex and meish, 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:15.640 So let's start the clock. 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:17.240 Now. 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:19.640 I'm of the opinion that it wasn't necessary for Biles 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:21.200 to follow up, but I also understand that if you 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.280 behave in a way that you normally wouldn't or a 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:25.120 way that you don't approve of, when others do it, 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.000 you might feel compelled to apologize for that. I made 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.000 a rule for myself long ago to not go tit 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:32.680 for tat with people who harassed or attacked me online. 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.760 Adding more hate to the space via personal attacks just 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:37.720 didn't really seem like a great solution. 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:38.080 To the problem. 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.559 Plus, correct messages that I believe in are weakened by 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.600 ad homin and bullshit. They stand alone without that stuff, 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.439 and in my life, I don't ever engage with people 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:49.640 that way. So why get into shouting matches and hurl 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:51.240 insults just because I'm online. 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:52.160 That's not who I am. 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.560 So knowing that about myself, I understand perhaps why Simone 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:57.760 chose to post that and to follow up with her 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:00.200 thoughts on how the topic is nuanced and worth discussing. 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.920 Some of the responses I got to posting that about 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:07.000 Biles assumed I was muddying the water on inclusion or 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.800 using nuance as a way to obfuscate for problematic ideas 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.480 about trans inclusion. But I've made clear on this show 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.360 and everywhere else how I feel about trans inclusion in sport. 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:18.640 Being afraid to engage in conversation about it and refusing 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.199 to acknowledge that there is nuance isn't going to help 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.520 the cause. In my opinion, there's nuance. There's different policy 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:28.120 at different levels. There's bullshit mandatory DNA testing that also 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.880 harms CIS, women with DSD or naturally high levels of 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:34.040 testosterone that we should talk about. There's bullshit executive orders 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:36.559 that are trying to ban participation at every single level, 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.920 regardless of policy. So there's a lot to discuss, and 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:41.559 I think if your main goal is just to win 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:43.800 an online war with Riley Gains, and you think you're 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.320 seeding ground by acknowledging nuance you've already lost, that's not 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:49.560 the goal. The goal is to convince more people to 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:52.800 embrace inclusion while feeling good about fairness and policy across 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.600 different levels. So if you're attacking folks for offering up 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.520 that there's nuance at all, I just don't think that's 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.080 the way. While I was thinking of all of this, 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:02.800 I also got a note or two from some of 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:04.760 you about having Ashlyn Harris on the show as part 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.120 of a series we're doing now. While I understand people 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:09.760 have strong opinions about her and believes about what happened 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:11.800 between her and her ex that may or may not 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:13.480 be true, I honestly can't tell you that because I 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:16.040 wasn't in their marriage, you're allowed to have those opinions. 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:18.680 I still encourage you to listen to the show to 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.880 be able to have grace and curiosity about people, because 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:25.600 it feels like life has become toxically informed by Internet behavior, 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.800 with everything requiring an immediate black and white answer. A 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.520 villain and a hero an uplifting of someone or a 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.760 cancelation of them. And those two moments of my comment 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:37.840 about Biles and the comments I was getting about Ashland 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:41.120 happening sort of concurrently reminded me that at this stage 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:44.080 of my life, I'm trying to do more listening, more understanding, 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:47.200 and more allowing for grace as opposed to attacking, judging 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.160 or assuming. It's better for my mental health and interactions 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:51.920 with people in the world, and it's better for the 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.200 people around me, for whom I offer more compassion and 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:57.360 a chance to evolve and improve and explain themselves. So 0:10:57.640 --> 0:10:59.480 you don't have to listen to anything. You don't have 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:01.760 to agree with me. I'm just offering up that the 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:03.880 world is offering me opportunities to approach things a little 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.560 bit differently, and I think sometimes, as much as our 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.040 instincts tell us otherwise, it's worth taking a pause and 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:09.920 thinking about doing that. 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:12.520 What do you think, Mesh, I think. 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:14.880 That's a damn That's a damn mic drop right there. 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:20.000 I You know, I struggle with this personally, right because 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.240 I am a person who I consider to have a 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:26.600 very strong moral compass. I feel grateful to you to 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:28.840 have been raised by two parents who both had very 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.199 strong moral compasses, who educated me about the world around 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.000 me and the people around me from a very young age. 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.200 And that doesn't mean I know everything about everything. You 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:40.080 say it all the time. I'm a baby in this 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:41.319 in this life game, you know. 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.280 What I mean. There's there's still so much to learn 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:44.640 and acknowledging it. 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.920 You know, I'll acknowledge it sometimes, I like not it sometimes. 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:51.600 But what I found is that even even for myself, 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.160 I didn't want to get social media for this exact reason. 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.400 I got social media my junior year of high school, 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:58.760 and I'd already seen the way it had changed the 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:01.240 way my friends and the people around me thought about things, 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.600 took things in. And the issue for me is, like 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:08.160 you're saying, snapping to judgments about things is so convenient, 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.640 and even from you know, what was that twenty thirteen, 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.800 twenty fourteen to now, we've only been bombarded with more 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.760 and more and more stuff. So there's always so much 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:20.679 the process, and it's easy, it's lazy, and it's convenient 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.880 to make snap judgments. So you know, you see a buzzword, 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:26.920 you see a person, you see a platform and a post, 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:29.720 and you assume immediately you know all the relevant facts 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:31.600 and you can decide what side of a line that 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.960 you're on it. It's just it's easy to do, and 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:36.520 I feel like it's something we all have to take 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:40.200 responsibility for. Is checking that stuff you know at the door, 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.040 knowing when okay, maybe I don't actually know everything about this, 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:44.960 maybe I should be giving this person a little bit 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:46.680 more grace, because at the end of the day, don't 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:48.880 we all also want a little bit of grace. Don't 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.600 we all also have nuance in different contexts and different 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.520 things happening behind the scenes that everybody doesn't see. So 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.000 it's it's not to say also that some of these 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.079 snap judgments aren't correct, because. 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:00.800 Sometimes they absolutely are right. 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:02.920 You know, if you're like me, if you're also Leo, 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:05.560 Sarah's a Leo. Period, sometimes we're right. A lot of 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:07.720 the time, we could be right right, but that doesn't 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:09.839 mean we can't leave space for ourselves to be wrong. 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:11.800 And that's how we make sure that we never align 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:14.240 with anybody ever. Is when we're never wrong, we can 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:16.640 never be questioned, we can never question ourselves. So it's 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.360 just it's a tough thing to do in the world 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:21.720 that we live. In today, but it's so necessary, and 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.720 at the end of the day, was so much shit 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:28.559 happening in the world at large. We need more people 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.360 who are willing to connect than are willing to cancel. 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.839 And now that's a dropped money. 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:37.360 I'll just leave it there because I don't want to 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:37.800 mess it up. 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:43.200 What do you think, Alex oh Man, Well, I want 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:45.880 to just add one tweet of Simons in which, to me, 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.680 is the one that she was actually apologizing for. When 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.679 she initially responded to Riley, she wrote, believe someone your 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:55.160 own size, which would ironically be a male, and I 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.720 think that's what she is referring to when she is 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:01.720 referring to getting personal with Riley. But I totally agree 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:05.319 with you about the lack of nuance in these spaces. 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:09.920 And I don't expect somebody like Simone Biles to have 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:14.880 all of the answers right. She, as a professional athlete, 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:18.160 has her own career to worry about. But I appreciate 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:21.480 that she is coming at this from an opinion of 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:25.840 inclusion and respect in lifting up children, and the fact 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.480 that we have gotten so far away from that in 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:32.440 this current conversation is extremely frustrating. And I'll also add 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:36.600 that I think sometimes the community that is advocating on 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.560 behalf of trans inclusion in sports, they are up against 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:45.520 such a hard fight, an existential fight against human rights 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:50.600 for the lives and safety of their community, that sometimes 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:55.160 what happens is there is a lack of acknowledgment of 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.680 what the general population is aware of when it comes 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.440 to sports. So the example all often set is the 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:04.920 fact that last year, when you look at the women's 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:09.280 one hundred meter AE, thousand men ran faster than the 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:15.120 current women's world record. Now, those are cisgender men competing 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:18.880 at all different levels, and cisgender men and trans women 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:21.240 not the same thing by any means. So I don't 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:23.640 want to make it sound like I'm equating those two things. 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.000 But when you ask a random person on the street, hey, 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:29.880 is it fair for a trans woman to compete against 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:34.040 a cisgender woman, it is unsurprising to me that their 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.880 answer would be no if they don't have any further 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.800 education or information on that topic. And so I want 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.600 to respect that that is a place that a lot 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.600 of people are coming from, and that in some ways 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.880 it's backed up by their experiences of watching high school 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:53.280 track meets, of watching their daughters and sons compete in sports, 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:59.800 but that experience doesn't negate the experience and lives of 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.200 brands kids that just want to participate. And I think 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:06.520 too often it feels like there is this importance that 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:09.080 is being placed on youth sports in a way that 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:12.560 does not matter down the line. What matters in youth 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:16.560 sports down the line is inclusion and acceptance. It does 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:18.960 not matter what time you placed. And if a team 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.880 has a quote unquote unfair advantage, well, let me tell 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.400 you there's so many unfair advantages in life. And you're 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:27.920 going to be better off for accepting people because of 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:31.480 who they are than rejecting them because they have an 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:33.600 advantage over you potentially. 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.160 And I feel like you you make a great general 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:41.080 point also about like because you as an individual, or 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.200 me as an individual, or any of us as individuals 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:47.000 have educated ourselves about certain things, that doesn't mean everybody 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:49.920 has that same level of understanding. I feel like that's 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.160 such an easy trap to fall into on social media 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:55.240 because you just think, you know, you've got your followers 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:56.840 on your feed, and you're and the people that you 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.520 care about who can be of more like mind to 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:02.160 you than other people just random folks on the internet 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:04.439 that you don't know, and it's very easy to assume 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.840 that everybody understands things at a certain level. And I 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:10.480 think that just goes back to the point it's better 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:12.800 to call people in. It's better to say, hey, let's 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.280 have a dialogue about this, because then you got an 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:18.520 opportunity to reach more people and help them understand. And 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.080 then next time they see something on their feed or 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:23.440 we have this conversation about Simona and Riley, they're not 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:26.320 as quick to say, oh, let me jump down her throat, 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:27.639 right yeah. 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:29.400 I think what scares me the most in this current 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:31.879 moment is the fact of how it speaks to just 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:36.720 larger misinformation. You know, following the executive order barring trans 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.120 girls and women from sport, there was a poll about 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.600 how sixty seven percent of Democrats Democrats believe that trans 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.240 women should not compete in women's sports, and that to 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:50.399 me is a sign of how flawed this current moment 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:54.200 is in terms of people having information that informs their beliefs. 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:56.040 People have beliefs that aren't informed by. 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:59.720 Fact, and that's why saying that there's nuance and let's 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:01.879 talk about it is the best way to get those 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:06.280 people to understand policy at different levels. Inclusion at every 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.880 level of youth is the answer. EO's barring everything from 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.880 pre k on our bullshit, mandatory hormone testing when there 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:17.399 isn't proof of T levels contributing at the elite, like 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.160 all this stuff. That's why I said nuance, and that's 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.000 why Simone said it's complicated, and let's try to prioritize 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.800 inclusivity and fairness. There's a great story people want to 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:28.320 read it in the Washington Post and opinion piece by 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.679 Philip Bump talking about how much parents are putting money 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:35.679 into youth sports and that one in nine parents believe 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:39.400 that their child will be a professional athlete, and how 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:44.080 that's intersecting with their worries about fairness and trans inclusion, 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:49.240 and to Alex's point, how unfair the playing field already 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:51.119 is based on the amount of wealth that you have 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:54.000 and ability for your children to even participate at all, 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:56.679 the likelihood of them making it to collegeen playing as 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.120 a results of that wealth, on and on and on. 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:00.960 There is so much nuanced to this topic. 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:02.879 There are so many ways to call people in to 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.760 talk about it that don't involve immediately canceling them and 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:10.160 I think that that applies to a million things going 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:13.280 on right now that aren't just this conversation about Sione 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:18.280