Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're considering
Speaker 1: dyeing our hair bright pink to match the stud buds.
Speaker 2: Can we pull it off?
Speaker 1: It's Thursday, July twelfth, and on today's show, we'll be
Speaker 1: chatting with Annie Costable, now a front office sports, about
Speaker 1: our new gig, the biggest surprises so far this WNBA season,
Speaker 1: and the historic tea that fuels today's rivalries. Plus a
Speaker 1: reminder that your fandom comes with a side of civic duty.
Speaker 1: Is TBA a worthwhile cause? And an accidental irish Goodbye?
Speaker 1: It's all coming up right after this welcome back slices.
Speaker 1: Here's what you need to know today. Let's start with hockey.
Speaker 1: The PWHL expansion Draft was Monday night, and wow, let's
Speaker 1: just say Vancouver and Seattle should both be in contention
Speaker 1: for the Walter Cup in their inaugural seasons. Both teams
Speaker 1: entered Monday night's draft having already signed five players during
Speaker 1: the initial signing window, but they're now up to twelve
Speaker 1: apiece following a seven round snake draft, and Couver solidified
Speaker 1: its reputation as a defensive giant by selecting Ottawa defender
Speaker 1: Ashton Bell with the first pick of the night, while
Speaker 1: Seattle added a slew of offensive weapons, with selections including
Speaker 1: Boston's Hannahbilka, New York's Jesse Aldridge, and Toronto's Julia Gosling.
Speaker 1: We'll link to the full draft results in the show
Speaker 1: Notes to the WNBA. Former Chicago skyguard Ali Quigley has
Speaker 1: officially announced her retirement from basketball, three years after she
Speaker 1: played her last game. In an essay published and The
Speaker 1: Player's Tribune on Tuesday, Quigley wrote that she didn't mean
Speaker 1: to irish goodbye the WNBA, but after one off season
Speaker 1: turned into two, and two seasons off turned into three.
Speaker 2: She realized she was done.
Speaker 1: Quigley and her wife, Courtney Van der Slute, also welcomed
Speaker 1: their first child, Jana Christine, earlier this year. Quigley played
Speaker 1: fourteen seasons in the WNBA, spending nearly her entire career
Speaker 1: with her hometown team, the Chicago Sky.
Speaker 2: She retires as a.
Speaker 1: Three time All Star and four time three point shootout champion,
Speaker 1: a record for both the WNBA and NBA for shootout wins.
Speaker 1: Congrats to Ali, But between this and Courtney's ACL injury,
Speaker 1: I guess I got to put the Vander quig shirt
Speaker 1: I brought back out for this season back in my closet.
Speaker 2: More WNBA.
Speaker 1: The Dallas Wings will be without Ty Harris for the
Speaker 1: rest of the season after the guard underwent successful knee
Speaker 1: surgery on Tuesday. Harris played five games to start the season,
Speaker 1: averaging four point six points, but had been out since
Speaker 1: late May with a knee injury. In a statement, the
Speaker 1: Wings said Harris is expected to make a full recovery.
Speaker 2: More hoops.
Speaker 1: Letitia me Here is back with the Golden State Valkyries.
Speaker 1: The former South Carolina standout played the last two seasons
Speaker 1: with the Atlanta Dream and then attended training camp with
Speaker 1: Golden State before getting waived ahead of the start of
Speaker 1: the season. But on Sunday, the Valkyrie announced that the
Speaker 1: team had re signed to me Here after waving kaya
Speaker 1: Linskins and That's not All.
Speaker 2: On Tuesday, with Julie van.
Speaker 1: Leu heading off to compete in the Summer's EuroBasket Tournament,
Speaker 1: the Valks announce that the team has also signed Aerial Powers.
Speaker 1: More WNBA All Star voting gets underway today at two
Speaker 1: pm Eastern and runs through Saturday, June twenty eighth. Over
Speaker 1: the next couple weeks, fans will be able to vote
Speaker 1: for which players they think should be starters in this
Speaker 1: year's All Star festivities, which will be held in Indianapolis's
Speaker 1: Gainbridge Field House on July nineteenth. Fans account for fifty
Speaker 1: percent of the vote, while current players and media account
Speaker 1: for twenty five percent each. During the voting window, fans
Speaker 1: may submit one ballot each day via WNBA dot com
Speaker 1: and the WNBA app. We'll link to the voting page
Speaker 1: in our show notes, so make sure to get those
Speaker 1: ballots in. To swimming, Canadian superstar and three time Olympic
Speaker 1: gold medalist Summer McIntosh set two world records this week
Speaker 1: at Canadian national team trials. First, on Saturday, the eighteen
Speaker 1: year old broke the world record in the four hundred
Speaker 1: meter freestyle, taking more than a second off of the
Speaker 1: previous mark set by Ariana Titmas of Australia in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three.
Speaker 2: Then, on Monday night.
Speaker 1: McIntosh broke the world record in the two hundred meter
Speaker 1: individual medley, which was previously set by Hungary Katinka Jozu
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen. Ann McIntosh is not done yet. We're
Speaker 1: recording this ahead of Wednesday night's four hundred meter im
Speaker 1: final where she could be on world record watch again.
Speaker 1: This all sets up an exciting showdown ahead of next
Speaker 1: month's World Championships in Singapore, where McIntosh is expected to
Speaker 1: go head to head against US DR Katie.
Speaker 2: Ldeki in the four hundred meter free.
Speaker 1: McIntosh also has the chance at that competition to become
Speaker 1: the only swimmer other than Michael Phelps, to win five
Speaker 1: individual gold medals at a single World Championship competition.
Speaker 2: To softball and.
Speaker 1: A little bit of ratings news, ESPN announced that this
Speaker 1: year's women's College World Series was the most watched in history,
Speaker 1: averaging one point two million viewers per game, up twenty
Speaker 1: four percent year over year, and the finals set its
Speaker 1: own viewership record, with the best of three series between
Speaker 1: Texas and Texas Tech averaging two point two million viewers.
Speaker 1: We love to see it. Finally, a reminder that albeit
Speaker 1: tonight's Aurora FC game, when our side takes on the
Speaker 1: Chicago City Dutch Lines at TCO Stadium in Egan, Minnesota,
Speaker 1: if you're around, come say hi and get a good
Speaker 1: game sticker. All right, slices, it's time for another edition
Speaker 1: of Give Me a Minute. Although I did like the
Speaker 1: suggestion that we call this the squeeze.
Speaker 2: So we're so calling this a TBA name.
Speaker 1: Let's bring in producer Alex Hi Alex Hello, and producer
Speaker 1: me Shai me Zip.
Speaker 2: You guys like the squeeze, I do, because the juice
Speaker 2: is worth the squeeze.
Speaker 1: You know, the juice is worth the squeeze. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: we may be back next time with the new name.
Speaker 1: For this time, we'll call it give me a minute,
Speaker 1: but I think we're gonna need about five for this one.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So today I wanted to talk about a mistake I made.
Speaker 1: I made the mistake of using social media to talk
Speaker 1: about a tough topic, and it's something that I've really
Speaker 1: stopped doing in recent years. I used to spend a
Speaker 1: lot of time on Twitter and Facebook and other places
Speaker 1: engaging with folks, trying to talk through tough ideas, trying
Speaker 1: to discourage problematic thinking, or shout down stereotypes and bullshit
Speaker 1: holding women back in the sports world, or try to
Speaker 1: discourage the spread of wrongheaded, moronic ideas about serious issues
Speaker 1: that I was covering in sports, like domestic violence and
Speaker 1: sexual assault. It felt worth it at the time, but
Speaker 1: as Twitter got more and more full of bots and
Speaker 1: engagement started to be paid for.
Speaker 2: I stopped using it for.
Speaker 1: That entirely, but Tuesday night on Blue Sky, I dipped
Speaker 1: a toe in. I wanted to offer up a thought
Speaker 1: on the folks that I saw attacking Simone Biles for
Speaker 1: what they considered walking back her stance supporting trans athletes.
Speaker 2: Let me catch you up on this.
Speaker 1: So noted trans phobe and terrible person, Riley Gains responded
Speaker 1: to a tweet celebrating a high school softball team state
Speaker 1: championship win, and she wrote comments off lol to be
Speaker 1: expected when your star player is a boy. Biles responded,
Speaker 1: You're truly sick all of this campaigning because you lost
Speaker 1: a race, straight up sore loser. You should be uplifting
Speaker 1: the trans community and perhaps finding way to make sports inclusive,
Speaker 1: or creating a new avenue where trans feels safe in sports,
Speaker 1: maybe a transgender category in all sports, but instead you
Speaker 1: bully them. One thing's for sure is no one in
Speaker 1: sports is safe with you around now.
Speaker 2: Predictably, hordes of.
Speaker 1: Awful people started attacking Biles, including Riley Gains herself, weaponizing
Speaker 1: Biles victimization by doctor Larry Nassar. So yesterday, in light
Speaker 1: of all of that, Biles posted this I wanted to
Speaker 1: follow up for my last tweets. I've always believed competitive
Speaker 1: equity and inclusivity are both essential in sport. The current
Speaker 1: system doesn't adequately balance these important principles, which often leads
Speaker 1: to frustration and heated exchanges, and it didn't help for
Speaker 1: me to get personal with Riley, which.
Speaker 2: I apologize for.
Speaker 1: These are sensitive, complicated issues that I truly don't have
Speaker 1: all the answers or solutions to, but I believe it
Speaker 1: starts with empathy and respect. I was not advocating for
Speaker 1: policies that compromise fairness in women's sports. My objection is
Speaker 1: to be singling out children for public scrutiny in ways
Speaker 1: that feel personal and harmful. Individual athletes, especially kids, should
Speaker 1: never be the focus of criticism of a flawed system
Speaker 1: they have no control over. I believe sports organizations have
Speaker 1: a responsibility to come up with rules supporting inclusion while
Speaker 1: maintaining fair competition. We all want a future for sport
Speaker 1: that is fair, inclusive, and respectful. Xoxo, Simone. Now, I
Speaker 1: saw a lot of folks alleging that Biles was a
Speaker 1: weak ally, that she backtracked on her support, and that
Speaker 1: she apologized to Riley Gaines, who isn't deserving of an apology.
Speaker 1: I disagreed, so I posted to Blue Sky Simone apologizing
Speaker 1: for taking a personal shot at Riley g while reiterating
Speaker 1: her belief in prioritizing inclusive while also seeking fairness. Isn't
Speaker 1: backtracking or being a bad ally. Folks are still allowed
Speaker 1: to care about their own behavior even if others are trash,
Speaker 1: and there is nuance to the convo, which is what
Speaker 1: I want to talk about with y'all today, Alex and meish,
Speaker 1: So let's start the clock.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I'm of the opinion that it wasn't necessary for Biles
Speaker 1: to follow up, but I also understand that if you
Speaker 1: behave in a way that you normally wouldn't or a
Speaker 1: way that you don't approve of, when others do it,
Speaker 1: you might feel compelled to apologize for that. I made
Speaker 1: a rule for myself long ago to not go tit
Speaker 1: for tat with people who harassed or attacked me online.
Speaker 1: Adding more hate to the space via personal attacks just
Speaker 1: didn't really seem like a great solution.
Speaker 2: To the problem.
Speaker 1: Plus, correct messages that I believe in are weakened by
Speaker 1: ad homin and bullshit. They stand alone without that stuff,
Speaker 1: and in my life, I don't ever engage with people
Speaker 1: that way. So why get into shouting matches and hurl
Speaker 1: insults just because I'm online.
Speaker 2: That's not who I am.
Speaker 1: So knowing that about myself, I understand perhaps why Simone
Speaker 1: chose to post that and to follow up with her
Speaker 1: thoughts on how the topic is nuanced and worth discussing.
Speaker 1: Some of the responses I got to posting that about
Speaker 1: Biles assumed I was muddying the water on inclusion or
Speaker 1: using nuance as a way to obfuscate for problematic ideas
Speaker 1: about trans inclusion. But I've made clear on this show
Speaker 1: and everywhere else how I feel about trans inclusion in sport.
Speaker 1: Being afraid to engage in conversation about it and refusing
Speaker 1: to acknowledge that there is nuance isn't going to help
Speaker 1: the cause. In my opinion, there's nuance. There's different policy
Speaker 1: at different levels. There's bullshit mandatory DNA testing that also
Speaker 1: harms CIS, women with DSD or naturally high levels of
Speaker 1: testosterone that we should talk about. There's bullshit executive orders
Speaker 1: that are trying to ban participation at every single level,
Speaker 1: regardless of policy. So there's a lot to discuss, and
Speaker 1: I think if your main goal is just to win
Speaker 1: an online war with Riley Gains, and you think you're
Speaker 1: seeding ground by acknowledging nuance you've already lost, that's not
Speaker 1: the goal. The goal is to convince more people to
Speaker 1: embrace inclusion while feeling good about fairness and policy across
Speaker 1: different levels. So if you're attacking folks for offering up
Speaker 1: that there's nuance at all, I just don't think that's
Speaker 1: the way. While I was thinking of all of this,
Speaker 1: I also got a note or two from some of
Speaker 1: you about having Ashlyn Harris on the show as part
Speaker 1: of a series we're doing now. While I understand people
Speaker 1: have strong opinions about her and believes about what happened
Speaker 1: between her and her ex that may or may not
Speaker 1: be true, I honestly can't tell you that because I
Speaker 1: wasn't in their marriage, you're allowed to have those opinions.
Speaker 1: I still encourage you to listen to the show to
Speaker 1: be able to have grace and curiosity about people, because
Speaker 1: it feels like life has become toxically informed by Internet behavior,
Speaker 1: with everything requiring an immediate black and white answer. A
Speaker 1: villain and a hero an uplifting of someone or a
Speaker 1: cancelation of them. And those two moments of my comment
Speaker 1: about Biles and the comments I was getting about Ashland
Speaker 1: happening sort of concurrently reminded me that at this stage
Speaker 1: of my life, I'm trying to do more listening, more understanding,
Speaker 1: and more allowing for grace as opposed to attacking, judging
Speaker 1: or assuming. It's better for my mental health and interactions
Speaker 1: with people in the world, and it's better for the
Speaker 1: people around me, for whom I offer more compassion and
Speaker 1: a chance to evolve and improve and explain themselves. So
Speaker 1: you don't have to listen to anything. You don't have
Speaker 1: to agree with me. I'm just offering up that the
Speaker 1: world is offering me opportunities to approach things a little
Speaker 1: bit differently, and I think sometimes, as much as our
Speaker 1: instincts tell us otherwise, it's worth taking a pause and
Speaker 1: thinking about doing that.
Speaker 2: What do you think, Mesh, I think.
Speaker 3: That's a damn That's a damn mic drop right there.
Speaker 3: I You know, I struggle with this personally, right because
Speaker 3: I am a person who I consider to have a
Speaker 3: very strong moral compass. I feel grateful to you to
Speaker 3: have been raised by two parents who both had very
Speaker 3: strong moral compasses, who educated me about the world around
Speaker 3: me and the people around me from a very young age.
Speaker 3: And that doesn't mean I know everything about everything. You
Speaker 3: say it all the time. I'm a baby in this
Speaker 3: in this life game, you know.
Speaker 2: What I mean. There's there's still so much to learn
Speaker 2: and acknowledging it.
Speaker 3: You know, I'll acknowledge it sometimes, I like not it sometimes.
Speaker 3: But what I found is that even even for myself,
Speaker 3: I didn't want to get social media for this exact reason.
Speaker 3: I got social media my junior year of high school,
Speaker 3: and I'd already seen the way it had changed the
Speaker 3: way my friends and the people around me thought about things,
Speaker 3: took things in. And the issue for me is, like
Speaker 3: you're saying, snapping to judgments about things is so convenient,
Speaker 3: and even from you know, what was that twenty thirteen,
Speaker 3: twenty fourteen to now, we've only been bombarded with more
Speaker 3: and more and more stuff. So there's always so much
Speaker 3: the process, and it's easy, it's lazy, and it's convenient
Speaker 3: to make snap judgments. So you know, you see a buzzword,
Speaker 3: you see a person, you see a platform and a post,
Speaker 3: and you assume immediately you know all the relevant facts
Speaker 3: and you can decide what side of a line that
Speaker 3: you're on it. It's just it's easy to do, and
Speaker 3: I feel like it's something we all have to take
Speaker 3: responsibility for. Is checking that stuff you know at the door,
Speaker 3: knowing when okay, maybe I don't actually know everything about this,
Speaker 3: maybe I should be giving this person a little bit
Speaker 3: more grace, because at the end of the day, don't
Speaker 3: we all also want a little bit of grace. Don't
Speaker 3: we all also have nuance in different contexts and different
Speaker 3: things happening behind the scenes that everybody doesn't see. So
Speaker 3: it's it's not to say also that some of these
Speaker 3: snap judgments aren't correct, because.
Speaker 2: Sometimes they absolutely are right.
Speaker 3: You know, if you're like me, if you're also Leo,
Speaker 3: Sarah's a Leo. Period, sometimes we're right. A lot of
Speaker 3: the time, we could be right right, but that doesn't
Speaker 3: mean we can't leave space for ourselves to be wrong.
Speaker 3: And that's how we make sure that we never align
Speaker 3: with anybody ever. Is when we're never wrong, we can
Speaker 3: never be questioned, we can never question ourselves. So it's
Speaker 3: just it's a tough thing to do in the world
Speaker 3: that we live. In today, but it's so necessary, and
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, was so much shit
Speaker 3: happening in the world at large. We need more people
Speaker 3: who are willing to connect than are willing to cancel.
Speaker 2: And now that's a dropped money.
Speaker 3: I'll just leave it there because I don't want to
Speaker 3: mess it up.
Speaker 4: What do you think, Alex oh Man, Well, I want
Speaker 4: to just add one tweet of Simons in which, to me,
Speaker 4: is the one that she was actually apologizing for. When
Speaker 4: she initially responded to Riley, she wrote, believe someone your
Speaker 4: own size, which would ironically be a male, and I
Speaker 4: think that's what she is referring to when she is
Speaker 4: referring to getting personal with Riley. But I totally agree
Speaker 4: with you about the lack of nuance in these spaces.
Speaker 4: And I don't expect somebody like Simone Biles to have
Speaker 4: all of the answers right. She, as a professional athlete,
Speaker 4: has her own career to worry about. But I appreciate
Speaker 4: that she is coming at this from an opinion of
Speaker 4: inclusion and respect in lifting up children, and the fact
Speaker 4: that we have gotten so far away from that in
Speaker 4: this current conversation is extremely frustrating. And I'll also add
Speaker 4: that I think sometimes the community that is advocating on
Speaker 4: behalf of trans inclusion in sports, they are up against
Speaker 4: such a hard fight, an existential fight against human rights
Speaker 4: for the lives and safety of their community, that sometimes
Speaker 4: what happens is there is a lack of acknowledgment of
Speaker 4: what the general population is aware of when it comes
Speaker 4: to sports. So the example all often set is the
Speaker 4: fact that last year, when you look at the women's
Speaker 4: one hundred meter AE, thousand men ran faster than the
Speaker 4: current women's world record. Now, those are cisgender men competing
Speaker 4: at all different levels, and cisgender men and trans women
Speaker 4: not the same thing by any means. So I don't
Speaker 4: want to make it sound like I'm equating those two things.
Speaker 4: But when you ask a random person on the street, hey,
Speaker 4: is it fair for a trans woman to compete against
Speaker 4: a cisgender woman, it is unsurprising to me that their
Speaker 4: answer would be no if they don't have any further
Speaker 4: education or information on that topic. And so I want
Speaker 4: to respect that that is a place that a lot
Speaker 4: of people are coming from, and that in some ways
Speaker 4: it's backed up by their experiences of watching high school
Speaker 4: track meets, of watching their daughters and sons compete in sports,
Speaker 4: but that experience doesn't negate the experience and lives of
Speaker 4: brands kids that just want to participate. And I think
Speaker 4: too often it feels like there is this importance that
Speaker 4: is being placed on youth sports in a way that
Speaker 4: does not matter down the line. What matters in youth
Speaker 4: sports down the line is inclusion and acceptance. It does
Speaker 4: not matter what time you placed. And if a team
Speaker 4: has a quote unquote unfair advantage, well, let me tell
Speaker 4: you there's so many unfair advantages in life. And you're
Speaker 4: going to be better off for accepting people because of
Speaker 4: who they are than rejecting them because they have an
Speaker 4: advantage over you potentially.
Speaker 3: And I feel like you you make a great general
Speaker 3: point also about like because you as an individual, or
Speaker 3: me as an individual, or any of us as individuals
Speaker 3: have educated ourselves about certain things, that doesn't mean everybody
Speaker 3: has that same level of understanding. I feel like that's
Speaker 3: such an easy trap to fall into on social media
Speaker 3: because you just think, you know, you've got your followers
Speaker 3: on your feed, and you're and the people that you
Speaker 3: care about who can be of more like mind to
Speaker 3: you than other people just random folks on the internet
Speaker 3: that you don't know, and it's very easy to assume
Speaker 3: that everybody understands things at a certain level. And I
Speaker 3: think that just goes back to the point it's better
Speaker 3: to call people in. It's better to say, hey, let's
Speaker 3: have a dialogue about this, because then you got an
Speaker 3: opportunity to reach more people and help them understand. And
Speaker 3: then next time they see something on their feed or
Speaker 3: we have this conversation about Simona and Riley, they're not
Speaker 3: as quick to say, oh, let me jump down her throat,
Speaker 3: right yeah.
Speaker 4: I think what scares me the most in this current
Speaker 4: moment is the fact of how it speaks to just
Speaker 4: larger misinformation. You know, following the executive order barring trans
Speaker 4: girls and women from sport, there was a poll about
Speaker 4: how sixty seven percent of Democrats Democrats believe that trans
Speaker 4: women should not compete in women's sports, and that to
Speaker 4: me is a sign of how flawed this current moment
Speaker 4: is in terms of people having information that informs their beliefs.
Speaker 4: People have beliefs that aren't informed by.
Speaker 1: Fact, and that's why saying that there's nuance and let's
Speaker 1: talk about it is the best way to get those
Speaker 1: people to understand policy at different levels. Inclusion at every
Speaker 1: level of youth is the answer. EO's barring everything from
Speaker 1: pre k on our bullshit, mandatory hormone testing when there
Speaker 1: isn't proof of T levels contributing at the elite, like
Speaker 1: all this stuff. That's why I said nuance, and that's
Speaker 1: why Simone said it's complicated, and let's try to prioritize
Speaker 1: inclusivity and fairness. There's a great story people want to
Speaker 1: read it in the Washington Post and opinion piece by
Speaker 1: Philip Bump talking about how much parents are putting money
Speaker 1: into youth sports and that one in nine parents believe
Speaker 1: that their child will be a professional athlete, and how
Speaker 1: that's intersecting with their worries about fairness and trans inclusion,
Speaker 1: and to Alex's point, how unfair the playing field already
Speaker 1: is based on the amount of wealth that you have
Speaker 1: and ability for your children to even participate at all,
Speaker 1: the likelihood of them making it to collegeen playing as
Speaker 1: a results of that wealth, on and on and on.
Speaker 2: There is so much nuanced to this topic.
Speaker 1: There are so many ways to call people in to
Speaker 1: talk about it that don't involve immediately canceling them and
Speaker 1: I think that that applies to a million things going
Speaker 1: on right now that aren't just this conversation about Sione
Speaker 1: Biles or Ashlett Harris or anything else. For instance, we
Speaker 1: just got a report today that Serena Williams and Venus
Speaker 1: Williams are launching a new video podcast, Amazing, Awesome.
Speaker 2: Can't wait to watch it.
Speaker 1: Where will it be on X owned by Elon Musk,
Speaker 1: which we're all working hard to move away from. Yea,
Speaker 1: we will reserve our judgment on that, as we will
Speaker 1: reserve our judgment on many other things until we have
Speaker 1: more facts, we get our questions answered, and if in
Speaker 1: the end we still decide, hey, that sucks, we're allowed to.
Speaker 1: But let's take those beats and have those conversations first.
Speaker 1: Per usual, we went way over the time we allotted
Speaker 1: for ourselves, so we're definitely going to need to change
Speaker 1: the name of this segment. All right, We got to
Speaker 1: take a quick break. When we come back, it's anti
Speaker 1: coostable stick around.
Speaker 2: Joining us now.
Speaker 1: She's a women's sports reporter for Front Office Sports, formerly
Speaker 1: of the Chicago Sun Times and the Greatest City in
Speaker 1: the World.
Speaker 2: She's on to make her smelly er pastures.
Speaker 1: In NYC and Iowa grad Queen of the Thrift Fit
Speaker 1: and hot off of Kendrick Lamar WNBA doubleheader.
Speaker 2: It's Annie Costable. Hi Annie, what an intro.
Speaker 5: I I'm always anxiously awaiting your intros and they just
Speaker 5: get better and better each time a person comes on.
Speaker 6: So thank you for that.
Speaker 1: Yes, you're in the two timers club. You have been
Speaker 1: here before. Welcome back, but with a new gig this time.
Speaker 1: So tell us how it's going so far with Front
Speaker 1: Office Sports.
Speaker 6: Do we want the realty or like the real positivity?
Speaker 2: No? No, no, we want honesty, not fake positivity.
Speaker 6: Yeah. No, genuinely positive things to say.
Speaker 5: But I always try to be real in that, Like
Speaker 5: anytime you make a significant change, it's not seamless.
Speaker 6: It never is.
Speaker 5: And I think when you start something new, your hope
Speaker 5: is that you know you're going to come in and
Speaker 5: and feel just as confident as you did in your
Speaker 5: old job. But the fact is I was at the
Speaker 5: Sun Times for seven years. That was seven years of
Speaker 5: source building and building you know, a following and becoming
Speaker 5: an expert on all things Chicago, sky and so here
Speaker 5: at Front Office Sports. The challenge I'm really excited about
Speaker 5: is starting from scratch, not in the sense of you know,
Speaker 5: my WNBA source building, but just as far as all
Speaker 5: other women's sports goes. You know, it's it's an opportunity
Speaker 5: to approach my coverage. It's in terms of women's sports
Speaker 5: the same way I approached everything I did covering the
Speaker 5: Chicago Sky and that's what I'm really excited about.
Speaker 6: But again, like that's not easy.
Speaker 5: You got to start from from zero and build back
Speaker 5: up to one hundred. So as far as my competitive
Speaker 5: side goes, and I think, you know, like I'm very competitive,
Speaker 5: that's the biggest challenge is knowing it's going to come
Speaker 5: with some learning curves and getting beat here and there.
Speaker 5: I take getting beat on stories. So yeah, that's that's
Speaker 5: been the challenge. But I mean, New York, why wasn't
Speaker 5: I here before? I feel like I've like landed exactly
Speaker 5: where I'm supposed to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what about New York City. It's very exciting.
Speaker 1: There's a lot going on. And for those who don't
Speaker 1: live in a big city, they probably think Chicago and
Speaker 1: New York are quite similar, but there's a lot of differences.
Speaker 1: How's it been getting used to living in a new place.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So being back this weekend in Chicago actually was
Speaker 5: like a mental test for me. I obviously was there
Speaker 5: for work, but I was like, Okay, this is going
Speaker 5: to be a good experiment to see if mentally I
Speaker 5: still feel confident about.
Speaker 6: The decision I made, or I'm happy in New York, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 5: And so yeah, when I was back in Chicago, I've
Speaker 5: only I mean, I've been in New York three months,
Speaker 5: and my immediate kind of sense was, wow, this feels
Speaker 5: already so different here. And the difference was Chicago is
Speaker 5: it's just you can find your pockets of calm and
Speaker 5: quiet and peace.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 5: Even getting out the house at like seven eight am,
Speaker 5: I was walking, you know, back my same path to
Speaker 5: get my coffee in the morning, I'm like, oh my god.
Speaker 6: There's no where are all the people.
Speaker 5: You know, the second you step out of your house
Speaker 5: in New York, it's just it's chaos. It's like from
Speaker 5: the second you get on the train, it's chaos. And again,
Speaker 5: at first, I was like, Okay, this feels right. I
Speaker 5: feel at home here, but I won't truly know how
Speaker 5: at home I feel in New York until.
Speaker 6: I go back to Chicago.
Speaker 5: And by the end of my trip in Chicago was like, man,
Speaker 5: get me back to New York.
Speaker 1: Wow, okay, good, I'm happy for you. We'll see how
Speaker 1: the wong at lasts. I mean, I think Chicago is
Speaker 1: obviously superior. So eventually you want to come back, but
Speaker 1: for now, have your fun. It's a good, good young
Speaker 1: person fun. Let's talk sports because now, as you said,
Speaker 1: your beat is a little bit bigger and that's very cool,
Speaker 1: and I like to have your perspective on so many
Speaker 1: different places and cities and markets. And before we even
Speaker 1: get to your main beat, which is basketball, let's talk
Speaker 1: softball a little bit because you've written some stuff about
Speaker 1: the Women's College World Series, in particular Nigrie Kennedy. So
Speaker 1: tell us what you think it means both for Texas
Speaker 1: Tech to have her coming back and also what it
Speaker 1: means for a softball player to be making that kind
Speaker 1: of nil money as this AUSL Professional League is launching,
Speaker 1: And will there be any friction for those players in
Speaker 1: college ball getting to the pros.
Speaker 2: Is it going to be like the old days.
Speaker 1: Of playing for a really high profile program in college
Speaker 1: basketball and going to the WNBN being like, oh weird,
Speaker 1: we have like worse locker rooms in travel than I
Speaker 1: used to have.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So I'm so happy we're talking about this because
Speaker 5: let me start with Nija coming back to Texas Tech. Obviously,
Speaker 5: I think what she did this year, them signing her
Speaker 5: and them signing her to that seven figure deal shows
Speaker 5: exactly how impactful she is on that program. And one
Speaker 5: year she led them to the Women's College World Series,
Speaker 5: and so obviously Texas gets it done this year, but
Speaker 5: her return, I mean, in a lot of people's minds,
Speaker 5: puts them right back in the Women's College World Series,
Speaker 5: competing for a final. And that's why again they re
Speaker 5: upped on that seven figure deal. Now, as far as
Speaker 5: it goes in consideration to how that type of salary
Speaker 5: is going to impact the professional level, you're exactly right
Speaker 5: in terms of comparing it to the WNBA and some
Speaker 5: of the differences that players saw and honestly continue.
Speaker 6: To see even in recent years.
Speaker 5: I mean, Angel Reeves going from LSU to the Chicago Sky,
Speaker 5: big difference in terms of experience and where they're training, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 6: But when it comes to.
Speaker 5: Softball, there's still a huge gap in that salary. And
Speaker 5: I mean, when we're talking about a million dollars. The
Speaker 5: average salary for AUSL is forty thousand, So that's a
Speaker 5: significant difference. And so when you think about a player
Speaker 5: like Nija, she's not only going to have options to
Speaker 5: play here in the States, but she's going to have
Speaker 5: options to play overseas too, and we know that in
Speaker 5: Japan that's where players are making the most lucrative salaries.
Speaker 5: And so something I've been asking different sources and different
Speaker 5: context is, Okay, could we see a similar situation as
Speaker 5: we saw to Diana Tarassi where she was paid to
Speaker 5: sit out and solely play overseas? You know, and I've
Speaker 5: talked to multiple sources who are like, that is not
Speaker 5: a far stretch of the imagination because the resources that
Speaker 5: teams have in Japan significantly outweighed the resources that we've
Speaker 5: known women's softball to have here in the States. And
Speaker 5: obviously AOSL is changing things, especially with this investment from
Speaker 5: Major League Baseball. But when you anticipate a player like
Speaker 5: Nija coming in, you still have a couple of years.
Speaker 5: How is AUSL how is the professional softball space in
Speaker 5: America preparing for that?
Speaker 6: Because she's already making a million.
Speaker 1: Right and she's obviously an anomaly because she's making way
Speaker 1: more than other softball players on the NL front, but
Speaker 1: still worth noting that there are these players that eventually
Speaker 1: are game changers and leagues have to adjust in order
Speaker 1: to compete to keep them, and she's going to be
Speaker 1: one of them. So it'll be interesting to see how
Speaker 1: AUSL builds from this current four team barnstorming league, which
Speaker 1: is a great way to start, and then uses that
Speaker 1: investment from MLB to really expand and blow up. All right,
Speaker 1: let's talk WNBA. There's so much to get to. We
Speaker 1: always want to talk more WNB in the show, but
Speaker 1: we're like a multi sport show, so it feels like
Speaker 1: there's always stories that fall between the cracks, so you're
Speaker 1: here to help pick them up. I want to start
Speaker 1: with the team in your new hometown, the Liberty. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess this can be expected, but it's not always
Speaker 1: a given that a team comes right back after a
Speaker 1: championship with the same heart and integrity and passion and
Speaker 1: desire and hustle.
Speaker 2: But they are killing it. What are you seeing from
Speaker 2: the Liberty?
Speaker 6: I mean, the addition of Natasha Cloud.
Speaker 5: I don't want to say I was a skeptic.
Speaker 6: Sorry, Tasha, but.
Speaker 5: I just wasn't sure or wasn't clear on exactly what
Speaker 5: her impact would be, how she would shift this team.
Speaker 6: And my god, I mean her energy.
Speaker 5: You you always hear teams coming off a championship talking
Speaker 5: about how they can't stay the same, they can't stay complacent,
Speaker 5: And I mean we've seen it cover in our coverage
Speaker 5: of former championship teams a lot of times.
Speaker 6: That's what what does the team in is?
Speaker 5: You know, they bring their their main coreback and not
Speaker 5: something really changes, right, Tasha is mentally a different player
Speaker 5: than anybody else on her team as far as just
Speaker 5: the energy she brings and how she invigorates all of
Speaker 5: the players around her.
Speaker 6: Her.
Speaker 5: The staff has talked about that, her teammates have talked
Speaker 5: about that, so so one, I mean, that's the most
Speaker 5: significant change. And then John Quell Jones, I mean she
Speaker 5: is like it's I don't even know how to put
Speaker 5: this other than to just say it plainly, like her
Speaker 5: absence continues to show how impactful she is.
Speaker 6: And it's crazy because she's this dominant player.
Speaker 5: It's not like you miss her on the court, but
Speaker 5: the second she's unavailable, you're like, holy, I'm sorry, Holy shit,
Speaker 5: but she is. She's everything to this team. So I
Speaker 5: feel like Tasha has again invigorated this team in their
Speaker 5: pursuit of a back to back title, and everybody else
Speaker 5: has just gotten better.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're missing Junkquell on my fantasy team too. Skyler's
Speaker 1: is really missing John Quell Jones.
Speaker 5: Wait when I saw your team name, I was like
Speaker 5: what I had, No, I don't know.
Speaker 1: In reference to Okay, I'm gonna send it to you,
Speaker 1: She's literally doesn't realize that the person she's talking to
Speaker 1: is micd up or that there's a hot mic near
Speaker 1: her and they're talking about years of the league and
Speaker 1: being old, and the girl's like, you're not old, and
Speaker 1: she like old pussy.
Speaker 6: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: Literally, when you posted this, I'm like, what.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we like to push the envelope a little bit. Annie,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 6: That, and you know I do as well. Let's just
Speaker 6: keep pushing that da.
Speaker 2: Right, that's right.
Speaker 1: We actually suffered from a couple of hot flashes in
Speaker 1: the first two challenges of the Fantasy League, but now
Speaker 1: our old pussy is winning, so glad to report that.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the other team that's winning all of
Speaker 1: their games. Minnesota Links nine to zero and if he's
Speaker 1: to call, you're my preseason pick for MVP.
Speaker 2: She looks to be on a mission. What are you
Speaker 2: seeing from them?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree with you on the mission statement. I
Speaker 5: also picked snafisas my preseason MVP pick, And I think, again,
Speaker 5: when you lose a title, it spurs something in you.
Speaker 5: But when you lose a title the way they did,
Speaker 5: I mean, they're coming back for a vengeance. And especially
Speaker 5: when you think about who Cheryl Reeve is in this league,
Speaker 5: what her franchise has experienced in the past.
Speaker 6: I mean not to bring up too much of like the.
Speaker 5: WNBA's history and the tea and whatever, but like, let's
Speaker 5: talk about it. I mean the Minnesota Links and the
Speaker 5: LA Sparks in twenty sixteen, that was another controversial ending
Speaker 5: to a WNBA finals, And there's a lot of people
Speaker 5: who feel like even in that moment, that was the
Speaker 5: Minnesota Links Finals to win, and you know, an officiating
Speaker 5: call changed changed everything. And so I think when you
Speaker 5: consider again the history of the league and specifically the
Speaker 5: history of the Links, it's very exciting to put into
Speaker 5: the forefront of your mind the possibility that the Links
Speaker 5: and the Lever could meet again and this finals.
Speaker 6: And it also makes sense why.
Speaker 5: This team is competing the way that they are with
Speaker 5: Cheryl Reeve at the home because again, she's been through it.
Speaker 5: This has been something new. What I'll also say about
Speaker 5: the Minnesota links In and the Liberty specifically, is when
Speaker 5: you consider the issues with the WNBA scheduling, it's astounding
Speaker 5: that these two teams will not meet until July.
Speaker 6: Like, where who did that? Let's can we talk to them?
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, well.
Speaker 1: I want to criticize them, and I also have questions
Speaker 1: about how many of the venues they're playing in have
Speaker 1: other tenants that take precedents Like I feel like you
Speaker 1: can blame the schedule maker or you can first ask
Speaker 1: to get a peek behind the scenes and figure out
Speaker 1: what they were dealing with when they were trying to
Speaker 1: make set schedule.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know what, that's fair. You know what?
Speaker 5: Listen to you being like middle ground considering all angles,
Speaker 5: I'm just raging out over You're like.
Speaker 1: But I agree because we all want to see them play.
Speaker 5: Yeah, truly, And then it's like, Okay, I mean it's
Speaker 5: long shot, but will they both be undefeated?
Speaker 6: That'd be crazy, can you? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Unheard of let's talk about some other teams.
Speaker 1: Who's the most surprising team to you in a good
Speaker 1: way so far this season?
Speaker 6: I think the Valkyriees.
Speaker 5: I know, I know their record doesn't necessarily show oh
Speaker 5: surprising in a good way, but again, I think the
Speaker 5: way that they've competed, it's it shows how good of
Speaker 5: a coach one Natalie is that the culture that they're
Speaker 5: building really is taking hold and that they as they
Speaker 5: kind of spoke about wanting to be, they truly can
Speaker 5: be a competitive franchise and in a very short order
Speaker 5: exactly so. I think again their record isn't exactly what
Speaker 5: you'd maybe associate with, you know, exciting top tier team,
Speaker 5: but again, as far as what they were up against
Speaker 5: and even the roster that they built through expansion, I
Speaker 5: don't know that many people thought they'd be competing in
Speaker 5: the way that they're competing this early on. And another
Speaker 5: factor that you got to consider they have a number
Speaker 5: of players that are going to compete in euro Basket. Ye,
Speaker 5: so how they respond to that too is going to
Speaker 5: be another test of the culture that they're building there.
Speaker 1: And I want to take this opportunity to shout out
Speaker 1: my previously named but unnamed least favorite player in the
Speaker 1: league who has been playing quite well of late. And
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna apologize because my take on you after
Speaker 1: one game was an accurate take. But I will say
Speaker 1: props to you for looking more comfortable, getting your head
Speaker 1: about you on the court, and having some fine games.
Speaker 1: And you will remain nameless because this is a kind
Speaker 1: and friendly show where you don't call out people for struggling.
Speaker 6: Oh my god, will you tell me off the error?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: And if you listen to this episode, you might have
Speaker 1: even sort of figured it out the way that I
Speaker 1: just said that, But maybe not because I'm snaky. Okay,
Speaker 1: what's the most surprising team in a bad way?
Speaker 6: Oh God, people are gonna hate me for this.
Speaker 2: It's the Chicago Sky Duh. What the I mean is
Speaker 2: going on? Annie girl?
Speaker 5: I wish The only reason I wish I was still
Speaker 5: in Chicago was so that I could I knew, I
Speaker 5: could know in and out what's going on, because obviously
Speaker 5: you can observe from afar. But but one thing I
Speaker 5: really took pride in is when I wrote something, I
Speaker 5: really knew it or I really had multiple sources on it.
Speaker 5: You know, I was I was not out here spewing lies.
Speaker 5: Although people might want to think so that's okay. You
Speaker 5: guys are titled to your opinion. So with this team,
Speaker 5: I mean one Tyler Marsh. I when when the Sky
Speaker 5: hired him, and I still believe this. They I wrote,
Speaker 5: they hired the right guy. And I think you don't
Speaker 5: have his track record, his championship track record, and you
Speaker 5: don't come from the tree that he comes from. And
Speaker 5: if you're not an adequate coach, right, you don't fake that,
Speaker 5: you don't get You just accidentally end up in the
Speaker 5: situations that Tyler Marsh has ended up in. So I
Speaker 5: still believe that Tyler Marsh is the right guy for
Speaker 5: the Chicago Sky. But obviously this team when it was constructed,
Speaker 5: when Jeff made the moves he made, and he brought
Speaker 5: the players and he brought in something apparent was that
Speaker 5: they don't have a certified bucket getter. You know, they
Speaker 5: don't have an MVP candidate. And I know, right, I
Speaker 5: know those players don't even grow on trees. I'm not
Speaker 5: saying every team even has, you know, an MVP candidate player,
Speaker 5: but they don't.
Speaker 6: Have a certified star.
Speaker 5: They have a lot of players who who contribute to
Speaker 5: two teams winning, but none that you can rely on
Speaker 5: to get it done. And then when you think about
Speaker 5: the fact that, Okay, if anybody was the creator, it
Speaker 5: was Courtney Vandersloute and now she's down with a season
Speaker 5: ending injury, tearing her ACL against the Indiana Fever.
Speaker 6: It really shows how.
Speaker 5: The Chicago sky were a house of cards and are
Speaker 5: a house of cards, and now you just pulled out,
Speaker 5: in my opinion, the card that was going to hold
Speaker 5: it all together.
Speaker 6: So I think they just it was a question mark
Speaker 6: from the beginning.
Speaker 5: I did think the addition of Ariel Atkins was going
Speaker 5: to make a difference back Alan, we haven't seen that yet.
Speaker 5: But now you pull out Courtney vanderslut and now the
Speaker 5: question becomes will we ever see it?
Speaker 1: You know, who's facilitating, who's setting up the bigs that
Speaker 1: can't create their own shots. Where's the inside out game
Speaker 1: that's required if you want to have two bigs like
Speaker 1: that that aren't really Yes, Reese can hit a couple
Speaker 1: threes everyone while, but she's mostly in the paint.
Speaker 2: Camille is going to be in the paint.
Speaker 1: You need a three point threat otherwise they're just dropping
Speaker 1: everyone inside and keeping you from getting it inside to
Speaker 1: your bigs. It just the formation of the team was
Speaker 1: tenuous already, but it required that some of their swings
Speaker 1: on three point shooters came out shooting, especially after losing
Speaker 1: Maybury last year.
Speaker 6: Right, it's been and.
Speaker 1: Listen, I want to give Tyler Marsh enough time, but
Speaker 1: literally my trainer this morning, who doesn't even watch a
Speaker 1: lot of WNBA, was like, how long is the leisha
Speaker 1: on the sky?
Speaker 2: Coach?
Speaker 1: This is brutal And I'm watching the games and that's
Speaker 1: what's standing out to me. It's not that they're losing.
Speaker 1: They are fundamentally offensive right now. They are not doing
Speaker 1: technical things right. They're they're not calling timeouts in the
Speaker 1: moments that they should. Reese is regressing in terms of
Speaker 1: bringing the ball down off of boards before going back up, Like,
Speaker 1: there's all these moments that feel coachable, and I'm wondering,
Speaker 1: fundamentally what happened to a bunch of these players.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So another observation I have and I don't disagree
Speaker 5: with you there. But in addition to that, which that
Speaker 5: was a whole lot, there's an energy issue. Like this
Speaker 5: team yesterday against the New York Liberty and again Corney
Speaker 5: Vanderslit's out, So that's that's a heavy burden to bear.
Speaker 5: But this team does not even look like it's playing
Speaker 5: at its full, you know, one hundred percent.
Speaker 6: And when you're a team that.
Speaker 5: Can't be saved by one single player, what are you
Speaker 5: holding back for? You know, like this is at a
Speaker 5: certain point, it's got to be a little bit about pride.
Speaker 5: You guys are getting blown out repeatedly. Where's where's the pride?
Speaker 5: And so I think in addition to that, even there's
Speaker 5: an identity issue because how are they playing?
Speaker 6: What what's their style?
Speaker 5: What are they leaning on when you know they need
Speaker 5: to get a bucket and none of that's been defined,
Speaker 5: none of that's been defined. And then you throw on
Speaker 5: Courtney's injury. It's like this is really a big question mark.
Speaker 5: But as far as the leash goes, I will say
Speaker 5: in my time covering the Sky that ownership group does
Speaker 5: not fire people easily. Okay except for Teaspoon, But again
Speaker 5: I say that to say that speaks to the dysfunction
Speaker 5: that went on there last year.
Speaker 6: They do not. They do not fire people likely they
Speaker 6: do not, yea.
Speaker 2: And we talked about this.
Speaker 1: Everyone was angry on behalf of Tea Spoon, and rightfully
Speaker 1: so in the sense of her legacy and maybe what
Speaker 1: she could do as a coach, But what was going
Speaker 1: on behind the scenes reportedly was not going to be
Speaker 1: a fixed with leadership the way it was in the
Speaker 1: players that were remaining.
Speaker 5: No, and what I'll add to that is, and this
Speaker 5: is something I've said in the months since, is Teresa
Speaker 5: Weatherspoon as a player and Teresa Weatherspoon as a coach,
Speaker 5: two separate people, A great human being, No one's No.
Speaker 5: I certainly wouldn't say otherwise. I don't know her well
Speaker 5: enough on a personal level to comment on good bad.
Speaker 5: You know that's not my job. But player coach, two
Speaker 5: separate people. Player, hall of famer, incredible, No one will
Speaker 5: ever take away from her legacy coach. She still has
Speaker 5: a long way to go to be a coach in
Speaker 5: the WNBA, Like, that's not an easy job. And just
Speaker 5: because you're a Hall of Fame coach or player does
Speaker 5: not equate to a Hall of Fame coaching career.
Speaker 6: And that is okay to say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was talking to a GM in the league
Speaker 1: about that, and I think there's been a lot of
Speaker 1: talk the last couple of years about a couple players.
Speaker 1: There was least a Leslie kind of openly talking about
Speaker 1: how she didn't get a job, and then people were
Speaker 1: frustrated about Tea Spoon, and the GM just said to
Speaker 1: me as we were talking about that, there are former
Speaker 1: players that make great coaches, and there are teams that
Speaker 1: need someone who is already a veteran coach who knows
Speaker 1: how to manage personalities as much as they know how
Speaker 1: to write up ecss and o's. And I think sometimes
Speaker 1: that's hard to take if there's a player that you
Speaker 1: really liked as a player, but maybe is it ready yet?
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about a couple other Let's talk
Speaker 1: specific individual players.
Speaker 2: Anyone that hasn't started off as strong as expected for you?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think Juel Lloyd in Las Vegas, and obviously
Speaker 5: you know her career is it speaks for itself already
Speaker 5: at this point. But I think when you consider, you know,
Speaker 5: the intention behind this move and the standards for the aces,
Speaker 5: you know they Jewell obviously wanted out of Seattle. She's
Speaker 5: made that perfectly clear. If it wasn't already before you know,
Speaker 5: the season began. But on top of wanting out, you know,
Speaker 5: the Aces were set on upholding this championship standard, and
Speaker 5: bringing her in was about upholding that championship standard. And
Speaker 5: I'm not, by any means saying that that where they're
Speaker 5: at is on Jewel. I think Becky Hammond just spoke
Speaker 5: about how this team has, you know, a character issue
Speaker 5: in terms of not having that that grit and that
Speaker 5: determined dog right exactly, that dog is missing and that
Speaker 5: will is missing. And I think in order for the
Speaker 5: Aces to be a content, to remain a contender, they need.
Speaker 6: Jewel Lloyd to be the Jewel Lloyd.
Speaker 5: You know that we've seen the Jewellloyd that's leading the
Speaker 5: league in points per game or at least among the
Speaker 5: top five. You know, they need that Jewel Lloyd to
Speaker 5: contribute to put that team, you know, where I think
Speaker 5: they have been and where they expect to be.
Speaker 1: What about a player that's taken the biggest leap, Maybe
Speaker 1: someone that you're like, okay, all right, look at this start.
Speaker 6: That's a good question.
Speaker 5: Honestly, I feel like this might be biased because I
Speaker 5: cover this team or I'm around this team as much
Speaker 5: as I am, But truly, it's going to be Natasha Cloud.
Speaker 5: And I don't even think because of her points per game.
Speaker 5: I mean, obviously you know she's I think she's averaging
Speaker 5: under ten right now, but that's not it. It's her impact
Speaker 5: that I've seen every single day on the New York Liberty.
Speaker 5: And again, when you consider a teams for to repeat
Speaker 5: as champions.
Speaker 6: That can't be overstated.
Speaker 5: So they don't even need her output to be crazy, like,
Speaker 5: they don't need her to put up, you know, fifteen
Speaker 5: points a game. So so that output, I mean, she's
Speaker 5: where she should be. And so yeah, I think Natasha
Speaker 5: Clouds fit with the New York Liberty and her impact
Speaker 5: on the Liberty so far is what's impressed me most.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally agree, especially because we often say about
Speaker 1: teams there's only one ball, and on that team there
Speaker 1: are so many people who could be trying to buy
Speaker 1: for it and try to be the star, and it
Speaker 1: said they're all working so well together. I also think
Speaker 1: Kiki erie Fen and Sonya Citron because for all the
Speaker 1: talk that we have that is very true about how
Speaker 1: hard it is to make this lead to even be
Speaker 1: on a roster, for them to be playing the way
Speaker 1: they are has been a revelation.
Speaker 5: Completely agree, completely agree, because aside from the Golden State
Speaker 5: Valkyries the Washington Mystics. We're going to be another team
Speaker 5: that has surprised me early on, and it's because of
Speaker 5: the contributions from both of them, especially.
Speaker 6: Kiky eria Fan. I think her physicality.
Speaker 5: Again, when you think about rookies and the adjustment and
Speaker 5: you're seeing her out here exude her dominance against some
Speaker 5: of the most dominant players in the WNBA, It's really
Speaker 5: got me excited to see where her career goes from here,
Speaker 5: because my god, I mean, I think she's she could
Speaker 5: be in the conversation for Rookie of the Year.
Speaker 2: Both of them. It's pretty impressive.
Speaker 1: We have to take a quick break more with Annie
Speaker 1: Costable right after this. Is there a team more player
Speaker 1: you think that is not being talked about enough. I
Speaker 1: think we all came in with such excitement enthusiasm for
Speaker 1: the Pagebeckers wings story, and the concussion and the illness
Speaker 1: has sort of slowed down us getting a chance to
Speaker 1: really watch how that might change anything else that you're like, Oh,
Speaker 1: why is it? Why aren't people focused on this or
Speaker 1: talking about this?
Speaker 6: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: I could go through like a whole list, but one
Speaker 5: thing I really wish people were talking about more is
Speaker 5: Kelsey Plum and what exactly prompted this trade request, why
Speaker 5: it was time for her to get out of Las Vegas.
Speaker 6: And I'll tell you why.
Speaker 5: I'm not.
Speaker 6: I'm not like trying to stir the pot.
Speaker 5: I'm not trying to bring up drama or you know,
Speaker 5: I don't know, encourage some tabloidy reporting.
Speaker 6: What I'm saying interests me.
Speaker 5: Is if you compare the situation to an NBA franchise, right,
Speaker 5: and you see a championship team start to kind of deteriorate,
Speaker 5: the why always gets talked about. It gets talked about
Speaker 5: so much that you're like, can we stop talking about this?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 5: And so with Kelsey, I think something that was on
Speaker 5: the outside looked so obvious was how strong of a
Speaker 5: connection the Aces that Aces team had and then all
Speaker 5: of a sudden it was gone. And I think that's
Speaker 5: something we.
Speaker 6: Should be talking about. Why.
Speaker 5: And then when you consider how well she's doing in
Speaker 5: LA I mean, I just I want to know why.
Speaker 2: Okay, last question for you.
Speaker 1: I think I've been having these conversations a lot of
Speaker 1: late with either guests or folks who are interviewing me
Speaker 1: for pieces they're writing it feels like some WNBA teams
Speaker 1: still seem to operate from a defensive place, and I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's an attempt at good business, smart
Speaker 1: business considering last year's mess. I don't know if they
Speaker 1: think they're protecting their players. But sometimes it feels like,
Speaker 1: whether it's intentional or perhaps it's the result of a
Speaker 1: lack of bandwidth or resources or whatever, that some WNBA
Speaker 1: teams make it hard for folks to cover them. They
Speaker 1: make it hard for people to ask sophisticated, sometimes critical
Speaker 1: questions and to give sophisticated, sometimes critical coverage. How do
Speaker 1: we get teams to welcome that and understand the necessity
Speaker 1: of that if the w and Women's Sports wants to
Speaker 1: take its place among the biggest and most profitable men's
Speaker 1: professional leagues.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I really appreciate this question because it's something that
Speaker 5: pisses me off to no end, not even just from
Speaker 5: the teams, but from the league as a whole. There's
Speaker 5: a transparency issue. And when I say transparency issue, I
Speaker 5: mean the simplest thing as far as you know, a
Speaker 5: coach getting fined, to you know, details about an investigation.
Speaker 5: It's there's so much that you have to jump through
Speaker 5: a million hoops to get the correct information out, and
Speaker 5: it leads to, you know, errors in reporting, which is
Speaker 5: understandable again because there's like a transparency, but also it
Speaker 5: just it. I think it conflates the feelings of attack
Speaker 5: versus understanding, Oh, these people are.
Speaker 6: Doing their job.
Speaker 5: And so I think the way that it changes from
Speaker 5: a team standpoint, from a franchise standpoint is when certain franchises.
Speaker 6: Force the others to rise.
Speaker 5: And I say that having experienced obviously working with multiple
Speaker 5: franchises PR staffs, and the difference from some versus the
Speaker 5: others is astounding, not only in the way that they
Speaker 5: receive critical coverage or or even allow their players to
Speaker 5: receive critical coverage, or their coaches.
Speaker 6: Because here's the thing.
Speaker 5: If I ask a question that Sandy Brondelo does not like,
Speaker 5: she is well within her right to look me in
Speaker 5: the face and say I don't like that question. You know,
Speaker 5: no comment, I have nothing to say. But if a
Speaker 5: PR person is stepping in and answering for her, it
Speaker 5: immediately becomes an issue of what are you hiding?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very pale Belichick, Jordan, how did you meet?
Speaker 1: We're not going to talk about that. I thought you
Speaker 1: said it was on a plane. Now we're all very.
Speaker 5: Curious exactly exactly, and so so I think that's what
Speaker 5: certain franchises have to get a little bit more comfortable with,
Speaker 5: is let the player express themselves, let the coach express themselves,
Speaker 5: and let these adults in these situations, you know, handle
Speaker 5: each other professionally. And I think some of these franchises
Speaker 5: will be surprised that the world will not end when
Speaker 5: you do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: We talked to Elizabeth Williams on this show, and one
Speaker 1: of the things I said is I think that there
Speaker 1: are a number, probably the majority of WNBA athletes that
Speaker 1: are willing to take tough questions and are smart and
Speaker 1: thoughtful and interested in answering them. And then there are
Speaker 1: some that I think have gotten used to sycophantic coverage
Speaker 1: and soft coverage and push back against legitimate reporting that
Speaker 1: elevates the sport because they just it because it sucks
Speaker 1: and it's hard, and you're competitive and you're pissed that
Speaker 1: you lost or you had a bad game. But asking
Speaker 1: someone about a bad game if they were zero for
Speaker 1: twenty is how sports works. And I just don't think
Speaker 1: women's sports will be the space that they desire all
Speaker 1: the benefits of if they can't also face that part
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 5: I completely agree with you, And just to add to this,
Speaker 5: I think it starts at the college level. I mean,
Speaker 5: you've got to consider some of these college coaches and
Speaker 5: how they're educating their players on media access and how
Speaker 5: to handle the media. And I'm not saying that this
Speaker 5: is easy by any means, Like I am not trying
Speaker 5: to take away from the fact that these players these
Speaker 5: coaches are showing up on good and bad days and
Speaker 5: being asked to talk about it. I know on my
Speaker 5: worst day, I would not handle it well. If someone's like, hey, Annie,
Speaker 5: why did you do X, Y and Z instead of
Speaker 5: X Y and Z?
Speaker 6: I would have an attitude.
Speaker 5: And that's why I'm fully supportive of players and coaches
Speaker 5: expressing themselves however they see fit.
Speaker 6: But you can't protect.
Speaker 5: Them from this space in which they entered and are
Speaker 5: also fully equipped to handle a professional athletes. It does
Speaker 5: them no good to handhold and baby in my opinion,
Speaker 5: and so I agree with you. In order for women's
Speaker 5: sports to elevate, to continue to grow, it requires the
Speaker 5: critical coverage, It requires transparency, It requires proper media attention,
Speaker 5: and so I think again, and it requires teams holding
Speaker 5: others accountable. If certain franchises elevate to a certain level,
Speaker 5: it's going to forces to rise to be done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I do want to add the caveat that
Speaker 1: it's a symbiotic relationship between reporters and athletes. You need
Speaker 1: to be prepared, educated, ask good questions, ask smart questions,
Speaker 1: understand the nuance, understand the intersectionality of women's sports, so
Speaker 1: that when you show up and you do ask tough,
Speaker 1: critical questions, they know that they're being asked in good faith. That,
Speaker 1: of course, is why some athletes already are in a
Speaker 1: position to maybe feel defensive, because it hasn't always been
Speaker 1: a space where people were sending their best and the
Speaker 1: reporters were doing their best. So I get hey, and
Speaker 1: that's worth commenting on for sure, But also, nothing is
Speaker 1: fixed and the future doesn't look any better if everybody
Speaker 1: enters with the assumption that the other one is operating
Speaker 1: in bad faith. There needs to be an agreement to
Speaker 1: move forward where both media and athletes and teams and
Speaker 1: leagues are all in pursuit of more sophisticated coverage, because
Speaker 1: that's what the league deserves.
Speaker 6: That's what these players deserve exactly. I fully support that statement.
Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Spain and I paid for this message. Spain
Speaker 1: twenty twenty eighth. Annie, we always love to have you.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for coming on. I'm sorry that you
Speaker 1: missed Chicago so much that you have to lie about
Speaker 1: how much you like New York, but I accept it.
Speaker 6: Listen, maybe one day I'll be back. Maybe maybe.
Speaker 1: Thanks to Annie for taking the time and trying to
Speaker 1: spill the tea, we have to take another break when
Speaker 1: we come back.
Speaker 2: The teams that make y'all proud of Pride stick.
Speaker 1: Around welcome backslices. We love that you're listening, but we
Speaker 1: want you to get in the game every day too.
Speaker 1: So here's our good game play of the day. Let
Speaker 1: us know what Pride activations you've seen and loved so far.
Speaker 1: Were you part of Angel City's Pink Pony Club TFO?
Speaker 1: Are you obsessed with the Pride t shirts? Retired goalkeeper
Speaker 1: Nicole Barnhardt designed something else. Let us know you know,
Speaker 1: we love to hear from you, and we want to
Speaker 1: share some of the teams that are doing it right,
Speaker 1: some of the athletes that are doing it best. You
Speaker 1: could also let us know if you think your team
Speaker 1: missed the mark. Looking at you, Boston Legacy. Ah, we
Speaker 1: were so excited about the logo finally being released and
Speaker 1: something to celebrate, but I don't know if you all
Speaker 1: saw this. The club initially announced some Pride merch, saying
Speaker 1: that money from sales would be quote donated to a
Speaker 1: local LGBTQ plus nonprofit that's committed to social justice and creating,
Speaker 1: sustaining and advocating for programs, policies, and services that support
Speaker 1: the LGBT community. End quote sounds great? Which one is
Speaker 1: what many people asked, but the team didn't say which
Speaker 1: nonprofit was getting those funds, and it appears that the
Speaker 1: team is now leaded the post. The pride gear is
Speaker 1: still available on the Boston Legacy store. The nonprofit name
Speaker 1: is still Mia. Feels like we're at a Blue Family
Speaker 1: gala over here or about to donate to the Human
Speaker 1: Fund if you know, you know, either way, the merch
Speaker 1: is cool. We love the idea of Boston Legacy. Just
Speaker 1: let us know who you're supporting. Hit us up on email,
Speaker 1: y'all good game at wondermedianetwork dot com, or leave us
Speaker 1: a voicemail at eight seven two, two, four, fifty, seventy
Speaker 1: and don't.
Speaker 2: Forget to subscribe, rate and review It's easy.
Speaker 1: Watch the US Women's the Soccer Tournament coach using her
Speaker 1: prize money from last year's TST championship for IVF, rating
Speaker 1: ten out of ten happy crying emojis. Review Ooh, y'all,
Speaker 1: this was a bona fide feel good moment.
Speaker 2: So okay.
Speaker 1: The Soccer Tournament seventy seven winner take all event took
Speaker 1: place from June fourth through the ninth, consisting of eight
Speaker 1: women's teams, one of which was called the US women.
Speaker 2: That squad pretty stacked.
Speaker 1: The roster included names like Friend of the Show, Joe Luyden,
Speaker 1: Carly Lloyd, Elly Kreeger, Heather O'Reilly.
Speaker 2: You get the picture anyway.
Speaker 1: Former North Carolina courage Stark Kendall Fletcher is the head
Speaker 1: coach of that US Women's squad and led him to
Speaker 1: a second straight TST championship on Monday, while pregnant with
Speaker 1: a little one. TST posted a video of Fletcher addressing
Speaker 1: the team after the win, and in it, she revealed
Speaker 1: that she'd used her chunk of the team's million dollar
Speaker 1: cash prize from last year's TST Championship on IVF and
Speaker 1: that the baby in her very belly was a result
Speaker 1: of that process. OMG, you have to watch the video.
Speaker 1: We'll link to it in the show notes. First watch
Speaker 1: it for Kendall, then watch it for all the player
Speaker 1: reactions in the background. Such a beautiful moment for that
Speaker 1: group and not a bad payday. Now it's your turn,
Speaker 1: rate and review. Thanks for listening, y'all. See you tomorrow.
Speaker 1: When we talked to Howard Megdohl about his contributions to
Speaker 1: the women's sports landscape and his new book about Caitlin Clark,
Speaker 1: Good Game, Annie, Good Game, Ali Quigley, Hugh Ice, Forever
Speaker 1: and Ever and Ever. Good Game with Sarah Spain is
Speaker 1: an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue
Speaker 1: Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by
Speaker 1: Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones.
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan,
Speaker 1: and Emily Rutterer. Our editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez,
Speaker 1: Grace Lynch, and Gianna Palmer, Our associate producer is Lucy Jones,
Speaker 1: and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain.