Speaker 1: This is part of my big push to decenter the
Speaker 1: concept of penetration from sex. So you know, I don't
Speaker 1: identify as a side. I don't really identify as anything
Speaker 1: in terms of top bottom dichotomy. But I think this
Speaker 1: is a really beautiful way for us to think about
Speaker 1: sex as being more than just penetration.
Speaker 2: You know what. This is a safe space to talk
Speaker 2: about relationships, love and sex. Now let me tell you
Speaker 2: something messy. Okay, So I have, as you all know,
Speaker 2: I famously I famously have gym crushes, always, always, always, always.
Speaker 2: But the last, the very like last one that I have,
Speaker 2: which was a while ago, finally asked me to like
Speaker 2: spot him at the gym, which this was everything. I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh my goodness, my gym crush wants me to spot
Speaker 2: This is great. And you know, we were like waving,
Speaker 2: you know, time and time again, and at the end
Speaker 2: of it, he said, thanks, TJ. I think you remember this,
Speaker 2: And I was like who, And I was like, no,
Speaker 2: my name is Ray I thought it was. And also,
Speaker 2: famously I never saw him again after that interaction. I'd
Speaker 2: like to believe that he was so embarrassed that he
Speaker 2: got my name wrong that he was like I can't
Speaker 2: show my face this gym ever again. That's what I
Speaker 2: like to believe. But I hadn't really had a gym
Speaker 2: crush after that because that scarred me. That scarred me though,
Speaker 2: like not knowing my what We had never met, but
Speaker 2: like he thought it was somebody else, so he thought
Speaker 2: he was talking to somebody else the whole time. That
Speaker 2: scarred me because in my mind we was, we was.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying we will get married because I'm already,
Speaker 2: but in my mind, you know, we were going on
Speaker 2: vacation in Italy at some point, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: We were gonna be fucking on a balcony somewhere. That
Speaker 2: was in my mind, but that clearly wasn't in his mind.
Speaker 2: So I recently had a new gym crush. Beautiful, fat
Speaker 2: ass tall like six six and you know how I
Speaker 2: feel about it, like six three six four and my
Speaker 2: head goes up, you know, chin up to the sky. Tall,
Speaker 2: fat ass, fat ass, beautiful walks in the gym where
Speaker 2: it's baggy clothes. I love when they got a fat
Speaker 2: ass and they were baggy clothes, I could still see
Speaker 2: that you got a fat ass. Love. I love it. Anyways,
Speaker 2: So I introduced myself to this person maybe two weeks
Speaker 2: ago because I was like, you know, I'm just whatever,
Speaker 2: let me just be friendly. Branded And then they told
Speaker 2: me their name, which is whatever the name was, let's
Speaker 2: call it. I'm gonna tell your real name because they
Speaker 2: might listen to this, but or they might not, but
Speaker 2: who knows. But we're picking a uh Kieran, they said, Kieren.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm immediately though about Kieren Culkin, but
Speaker 2: it's not anyways, he's a Karen. I said, oh, cool, Google,
Speaker 2: So I remember Karen because Kieran got the fat ass whatever.
Speaker 2: So now it's a week and a half later, he said, yesterday, yesterday,
Speaker 2: So we at the locker room. We have lockers. It
Speaker 2: happens somewhere in the gym at the same time, same lockers,
Speaker 2: next next to each other, and it's Karen. I don't caring.
Speaker 2: Karen's fat ass whatever. Kieren says, hey, hey, he said,
Speaker 2: remind me your name and kin, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's Brandon. And in that moment, I realized that I'm
Speaker 2: not his gym crush. Do you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: Because in your mind, the gym crush, you're in a
Speaker 2: relationship with the gym crush. But this is not I'm
Speaker 2: not your gym crush because you don't remember my name.
Speaker 2: And when you crush on somebody, I'm a free somebody today.
Speaker 2: When you are crushing on somebody, you are going to
Speaker 2: remember their name. So if they're crushing on you, they're
Speaker 2: gonna remember your name. But if they are not crushing
Speaker 2: on you, and that's tim Because there are people that
Speaker 2: I've been at the gym who I don't know that
Speaker 2: they've introduced themselves several times. I don't remember the name
Speaker 2: at all because I don't have a crush on them. So help.
Speaker 2: There are plenty of people whose days I do remember,
Speaker 2: don't play me, but some of them I don't remember.
Speaker 2: We met one time I don't remember, but I don't
Speaker 2: have a crush on you, so I don't remember. So
Speaker 2: Kieran asking me for my name confirmed to me that
Speaker 2: we are not going to Italy either. You know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying that this is that I have to let
Speaker 2: this go. And so so I'm on the hunt for
Speaker 2: a new gym crush because I would like a reciprocal
Speaker 2: Jim crush. I would like a gym crush who who
Speaker 2: wants me to who sees me on the StairMaster and says,
Speaker 2: look at that fat ass. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: look at that juicy, big fat I want that for me.
Speaker 2: I deserve a Jim crush who also has a crush
Speaker 2: on me, who doesn't want to do anything but just
Speaker 2: have Jim crushes. Because I'm also not trying to listen.
Speaker 2: I got two partners, I say, y'all, well, no, and
Speaker 2: that is enough for me. I'm tapped out. I'm at capacity.
Speaker 2: I really can't. If I see y'all at the dark room,
Speaker 2: if I see you on the dance floor, if I
Speaker 2: see you at the party, fabulous, But I cannot make
Speaker 2: plans with nobody else because I'm capacity with those emotional
Speaker 2: with my emotional bandwidth. But a gym crush, baby, I
Speaker 2: can have plenty. So but this is just for y'all.
Speaker 2: If you if you are crushing on somebody and you
Speaker 2: have a whole band to see and you've introduced yourself,
Speaker 2: y'all have exchange names, and then you discover they don't
Speaker 2: remember your name, that crush is dead. You deserve better.
Speaker 2: You deserve all right, By the way, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: This is tell me something messy. I'm your host, Brandon
Speaker 2: Kyle Goodman. Most people call me messy mom, but you
Speaker 2: could call me delusjah ho. Come on, that was good
Speaker 2: delusional delusion. How okay, okay, let's get his hard, let's
Speaker 2: get it started. Oh, by the way, you can join
Speaker 2: me on substack. I'm going to start doing live shows
Speaker 2: on substack Messy Monday Night every Monday at six pm Pacific,
Speaker 2: nine pm Eastern. You can log onto substack and you
Speaker 2: can watch me key with you. You can also submit your
Speaker 2: own messy stories or questions. Email me at tell Me
Speaker 2: Something Messy at gmail dot com. Or if you go
Speaker 2: on subsack, you'll see there's a link in that last
Speaker 2: post I made where you can submit anonymously, even more anonymously.
Speaker 2: Submissions always remain anonymous anyways. Substat Brandon Hawguman dot subsack
Speaker 2: dot com. Messy Monday Night a live show every Monday
Speaker 2: at nine pm Eastern, six pm Pacific. And it's just
Speaker 2: gonna be a key key and sometimes we'll have guests
Speaker 2: and all the good things. I hope to see you there.
Speaker 2: And one more bit of hokeyping, don't forget to rate
Speaker 2: review and subscribe to this podcast. Baby, we're trying to
Speaker 2: get two hundred and sixty reviews by the end of April.
Speaker 2: We're like one hundred and sixty right now, and so
Speaker 2: I know we can get there. I know we can
Speaker 2: get there. Okay, all the things, all the things. I
Speaker 2: love you. Is there a doorbell? There is a doorbell
Speaker 2: in three two? You know what that means. It is
Speaker 2: tough for I guess now, while they get situated, we
Speaker 2: will get our messy. Kikey started with a ho manifesto,
Speaker 2: repeat after me, allowed or in your head. Grant me
Speaker 2: the serenity to unpack my shame, the courage to heal,
Speaker 2: the wisdom to know that sex is not just about penetration,
Speaker 2: The audacity to advocate for my pleasure and boundaries. The
Speaker 2: strength to not call my ex that fuck boy, fuck girl,
Speaker 2: or fuck bay, for it is better to masturbate by
Speaker 2: myself in peace than to let someone play in my
Speaker 2: motherfucking face that the community say hoolujah. Clarkmore is a
Speaker 2: multi hyphen it actor, writer, and director. He is best
Speaker 2: known for his roles in Love Simon and on Crazy
Speaker 2: Ex Girlfriend. His most recent Phil not An Artist is
Speaker 2: available now on digital and His newsletter whist Over, which
Speaker 2: features essays, reviews, and recommendations, can be found at Clarkmore
Speaker 2: dot subsack dot com. Hi h clark Im, you're here.
Speaker 2: Thank you for being here. You were watching me get
Speaker 2: myself together. Clark's one of those guests. You were here early, girl.
Speaker 1: You know I cannot be on time. Yeah, either absurdly
Speaker 1: early or late.
Speaker 2: And wow, so which used to be absurdly early? Great?
Speaker 3: Well, more like it just worked out that way.
Speaker 2: Lovely, lovely. Because I walked in, I was like, am
Speaker 2: I late? Clark was like seeing it, I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, But I love I love a prompt girly.
Speaker 2: I wish I was more prompt myself. But before we
Speaker 2: get into this, let me give you our messy mandates,
Speaker 2: which are things get to be unprocessed. Any thoughts or
Speaker 2: opinions shared have the right to shift evolve for change today,
Speaker 2: tomorrow or ten years from now. And if during the
Speaker 2: kiki something feels too personal or unintentionally offends, we use
Speaker 2: the safe word foosball, which allows us to pause and
Speaker 2: pivot and address accordingly. Okay, copy, yes, I know, right,
Speaker 2: because we'll I use it because as I everyone has
Speaker 2: heard me say a million times if foosball comes up here,
Speaker 2: like what is going on? Yeah, there should be no
Speaker 2: reason to be talking about football, and for that reason
Speaker 2: I'm going to do an episode on foosball at some point.
Speaker 2: All right, let's play a game of smash or pass,
Speaker 2: little lube breaker.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, all right, so.
Speaker 2: Smash or pass nipples being bitten. I guess not definitely
Speaker 2: not pass. Okay, okay, this is why is on a smash?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think, as with any thing, it
Speaker 1: depends on the context.
Speaker 2: Course, absolutely, this is this context will be the most
Speaker 2: divine context then smash?
Speaker 3: Sure? Why not?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I do get I have control issues.
Speaker 1: So when you said nipple biting, I immediately was like,
Speaker 1: huh is it still thereafter?
Speaker 2: You know? Yes, because it is.
Speaker 1: I mean ideally, ideally I would hope design context. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: but in the alternate context, yeah, you know, noble blood.
Speaker 3: For me, I'm good, No, no, no, maybe just a little like.
Speaker 2: A little nibble, a little nibble, nipples being nibble yet
Speaker 2: smashed for a nibble, smash for a nibble. I am
Speaker 2: also a smash for a nibble, a light bite, which
Speaker 2: I only thought I liked. I love my nipples being
Speaker 2: suckedor licked. You can flick it. You can also squeeze it,
Speaker 2: but I didn't know about the biting. And then my
Speaker 2: partner bit my nipple, you know, in a in a
Speaker 2: divine way, still there, still there. I was like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, I'm actually quite into this, and that kind
Speaker 2: of revealed and he is as well, so like kind
Speaker 2: of revealed that we enjoy a little bit of pain.
Speaker 2: Not too much nine into the torture of it all,
Speaker 2: but like a little bit of pain, a little bit
Speaker 2: of that pain pleasure or pain accentuates the pleasure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, yeah, I don't know that.
Speaker 1: I'm all the way there with you, Okay, okay, smash
Speaker 1: or pass sniffing someone's come soaked underwear. I mean, I've
Speaker 1: never done that, But what comes up when I say it?
Speaker 1: Do you know what the thing is? Tell me a
Speaker 1: lot of the I'm very kink positive, sure, you know,
Speaker 1: and I'm also very like, you know, if that's what
Speaker 1: you're into, then Gray, Yes, that's why pass feels too.
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, because I'm like, who knows, anything can happen? Absolutely,
Speaker 1: you know, to your to your point about messy mandate,
Speaker 1: anything can change.
Speaker 2: Anything can change it can evolve. I am I haven't.
Speaker 2: Have I done this? Have I done this? Have I sniffed?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I have? Oh my god, yes I have, absolutely, I have.
Speaker 2: I have absolutely. In fact, I think like my boyfriend
Speaker 2: came in an underwear once and I was like, I'm
Speaker 2: going to take that with me now. And I actually
Speaker 2: opened my yesterday it's fully in there. So yes, sorry, Yes,
Speaker 2: it is a smash for me. People sell their comes
Speaker 2: so underwear for money on the where my brain went
Speaker 2: yes and yeah, and I was at it. I was
Speaker 2: at a shoot and we were talking about it, and
Speaker 2: we we're like, well, what is the what is the
Speaker 2: pleasure of that? Or why do people want that? Which,
Speaker 2: you know, there's a lot of reasons, but I think
Speaker 2: it's like like wanting that from a stranger, like somebody, Yeah,
Speaker 2: is it the same turn on? Like I understand from
Speaker 2: my partner. But do I want you know, that random
Speaker 2: hottie in that other you know country? Do I want
Speaker 2: them to send me their sturdy jocks?
Speaker 3: I certainly don't want to pay for it myself. I
Speaker 3: don't want to pay for it.
Speaker 2: I mean, I have no nothing is it. I just
Speaker 2: want to want to save my money from my green Jesus,
Speaker 2: that's right, because that's right.
Speaker 3: To be clear, It's just that the budget is alligated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not that I'm opposed to. It's a budget. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you gotta I gotta work the gotta work the co
Speaker 2: pilot budget, you know, whatever the apps are these days.
Speaker 2: But I'm but I do find it. I love that.
Speaker 2: I love it as a kink or I'm curious about
Speaker 2: it as a kink, like you know, people wanting people's sucks,
Speaker 2: or yeah, totally an intimacy thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or like I heard someone say, I can't remember
Speaker 1: who it was it was, Oh, I think randomly. It's
Speaker 1: one of the two Plas brothers on an interview talking
Speaker 1: about how he knew that his partner was the one
Speaker 1: when he woke up one morning and her morning breath
Speaker 1: didn't oh you know, it's comforting and known. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was like, oh wow, this is my life partner.
Speaker 2: That's similar to like one of fart, that like when
Speaker 2: your partner's stinky fart doesn't bug you. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I will never get to a point where I want
Speaker 2: to see somebody ship in the toil. I don't care
Speaker 2: how much ill you. I'm like, if you don't flush
Speaker 2: the motherfucking toilet, I'll fight, but yes, the farts, the
Speaker 2: morning breath, the burps were You're like, oh that's so cute,
Speaker 2: but does that last forever?
Speaker 3: You tell me? I don't know, girl, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know either.
Speaker 1: I mean the only the longest intimate non sexual relationship
Speaker 1: that I had was with my dog who passed away.
Speaker 1: But I felt that way about his breath. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: felt very like calming and comforting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, somebody you love.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the like stinky dog smell thing.
Speaker 1: People talk about this a lot, where like there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people who like to have a smelly dog
Speaker 1: in the house.
Speaker 3: Do you or did you?
Speaker 1: I there was a limit where I had to like,
Speaker 1: but it didn't bother me. Yeah, it sort of felt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was calming and you know, intimate in that sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I my husband would agree with you. I smelled
Speaker 2: that breath and immediately started a subscription to his Greenies
Speaker 2: because I said, no, we won't be doing that, baby.
Speaker 2: And the amount of candles I have in the house
Speaker 2: as well, yeah, like we keep the one does open
Speaker 2: wash that dog often?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I also don't have it generally, Like I don't
Speaker 1: when I go into someone else's.
Speaker 2: You don't it's your dog, is true?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: You do want to spell somebody else's dog. But I'm
Speaker 2: saying I don't even want to spill them and that's okay,
Speaker 2: And that's okay, that's okay, all right, Smash for pass
Speaker 2: having sex with porn in the background.
Speaker 1: Oh, I think past. I think past because well, I
Speaker 1: mean I think of the uh is that sex and
Speaker 1: the city?
Speaker 2: Oh? Sure?
Speaker 1: The I mean I think about like porn addiction in
Speaker 1: general being something that I'm nervous about, certainly with a partner.
Speaker 2: Nervous about the two of you getting addicted to porn?
Speaker 2: Are you getting addicted to it?
Speaker 1: If nervous in the context of if that's something that
Speaker 1: has to be if porn has to be on in
Speaker 1: order for sex?
Speaker 3: Oh okay, Yes, I think engaging with it.
Speaker 1: Fine, if that's a if that is a requirement that
Speaker 1: makes me nervous, what if it's what if.
Speaker 2: It's not, what if it's just part of you know?
Speaker 3: Then sure? Yeah, try anything?
Speaker 2: Yeah, love, I tried a second time to make sure.
Speaker 2: I know. Yeah, I it's not my go to I
Speaker 2: prefer music. But I was looking up with somebody and
Speaker 2: I came into their place and they had porn playing
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, I can get into this.
Speaker 2: And sometimes the hardest thing though, for me with porn
Speaker 2: with somebody else is deciding what porn it should be,
Speaker 2: because we all have different tastes and things that turn
Speaker 2: us on well, and.
Speaker 3: This is the other thing.
Speaker 1: A lot of people engage with it privately, and so
Speaker 1: it's really unexamined. Yes, and then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, this is normal, right, And it's
Speaker 1: like and it might it all is in its own
Speaker 1: but might not feel it with the other person.
Speaker 3: Or you might not be aware of what you know,
Speaker 3: and it's unlocking. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: It's like we have our different fantasies for different reasons
Speaker 2: and different porn that attracted to for different reasons. And
Speaker 2: so when you're by yourself with it, that's one thing,
Speaker 2: But when you introduce a partner with it, it's like,
Speaker 2: are we on the same yes, are we doing the
Speaker 2: same thing, the same type of thing? We like? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was at a party and someone was telling me
Speaker 2: that they were meeting a partner and they wanted to
Speaker 2: introduce a porn because they like, you know, like the
Speaker 2: stepdad porn or whatever. Yeah, and that was too much
Speaker 2: for the other person. It's like, oh, well, it's not
Speaker 2: bad that you like that porn, but yeah, now you're
Speaker 2: thinking differently because you know you're the partner.
Speaker 1: Didn't and is it examined? You know, like why why
Speaker 1: is that interesting to you?
Speaker 2: I know, the fantasies are hard. I mean, I always
Speaker 2: want to be curious, but sometimes you're like, they're I
Speaker 2: don't know if this is true or not. But I've
Speaker 2: had somebody say like, sometimes it's just like it is
Speaker 2: what it is, Yeah, And you can't get too deep
Speaker 2: into why because then it gets a little like why
Speaker 2: do I love watching people get pissed? One like I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know if we're going to find that out,
Speaker 2: but yes, I do think understanding maybe what it is
Speaker 2: is being intentional about how you're engaging with porn, yes,
Speaker 2: and when you're engaging with it and as opposed to
Speaker 2: necessarily always asking well, what is the thing that I'm
Speaker 2: attracted to?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: I think that with all sex, you know, sort of
Speaker 1: if it feels like a healthy relationship to it, and
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I've been thinking a lot about porn
Speaker 1: addiction lately because it keeps coming up in the context
Speaker 1: of gender and particularly masculinity, relationships between men and misogyny
Speaker 1: and women, and so thinking about like how do you
Speaker 1: engage with it in a way that's healthy, thoughtful, examined
Speaker 1: to an extent, but also not like addictive. Yes, I
Speaker 1: feel like it's there's a secret the accessibility of it
Speaker 1: with Twitter, and for sure it just sort of like
Speaker 1: it has creeped.
Speaker 3: In a lot more than maybe it used to.
Speaker 2: Well, there's so much of it now, right, it's not
Speaker 2: just like a magazine that it's like under your bed. Right,
Speaker 2: it's on your phone, it's your computer. It's now the
Speaker 2: amateur lane of it is all so accessible, like anyone
Speaker 2: can start only fans, anyone can put so for on Twitter,
Speaker 2: and so you can, if you're not engaged with your sexuality,
Speaker 2: kind of get lost in just that and also think
Speaker 2: that this way of having sex is the correct way
Speaker 2: or the only way, and you're not examining Oh, I
Speaker 2: you know, the bottom is never being eaten out before
Speaker 2: he gets fucked or I don't know if that's a
Speaker 2: real moan, like a theatrical one. And then when you
Speaker 2: go into real sex, you're comparing it to this fantasy
Speaker 2: and that can also then become confusing because your partner
Speaker 2: is not a porn star, and even if they are
Speaker 2: porn star, like how they perform in front of a
Speaker 2: camera and how they perform it in private not the
Speaker 2: same thing, and allowing that to reality to exist and
Speaker 2: for that to be okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is all from porn smasher past clearly
Speaker 1: is it has brought something up in me. I guess past.
Speaker 3: Maybe I don't know what if this be, like, where
Speaker 3: have we landed?
Speaker 2: I guess I guess it's We can give it a
Speaker 2: smass okay, we can do a lovely like in between
Speaker 2: smass hybrid. Yeah, you won the game, by the way,
Speaker 2: did I? You won my unconditional love? Listen, I give
Speaker 2: the cues on give it. If y'all have prompts for games,
Speaker 2: or you want to tell me something messy, you can
Speaker 2: email me at tell me something messy at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Speaking of which, Clark, can you tell me something messy?
Speaker 1: Okay, I can tell you something messy. I will tell
Speaker 1: you I have taken the prompt and I have gone.
Speaker 1: I'm using the word relationship in a very broad yeah,
Speaker 1: please okay, And it's not as sexual, that's right. It's
Speaker 1: you'll see why it's messy. It's kind of a little
Speaker 1: bit gossipy.
Speaker 2: We love a little goss.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: So, as I told your I'm here for the winter
Speaker 1: and trying to figure out my relationship with Los Angeles
Speaker 1: in general long term. It feels like my American home base,
Speaker 1: which is which is quite nice, but that comes with
Speaker 1: a lot of logistical issues.
Speaker 3: Where do you live? How do you get around?
Speaker 1: And so this winter I decided to rent a car
Speaker 1: from a friend, a friend of a friend who's.
Speaker 3: Sort of this like older guy.
Speaker 1: He fixes up cars, specifically like old Mercedes that kind
Speaker 1: of like La Mercedes vibe. Yeah, sure, lovely car, beautiful,
Speaker 1: you know, butter cream dream.
Speaker 2: Well, butter cream gorgeous. Okay, describing a color like that,
Speaker 2: butter cream, I don't we don't use that word enough.
Speaker 1: But you can see it, maybe I see it. I
Speaker 1: can lick it, Yeah, lovely margarine yellow.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: And and it's a diesel car, so it's quite loud
Speaker 1: and quite like smelly, like definitely not put on your mask.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so anyway, so I had parked it on the
Speaker 1: street outside of my house, and it was the oldest
Speaker 1: car that I've ever driven, so it took some time
Speaker 1: to get used to it. And I kind of was like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm not an old car person, you know, like
Speaker 1: the photos are.
Speaker 2: Great, listen to Instagram is popping, but I don't know
Speaker 2: if it's unfortunate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so it kind of was sitting around longer
Speaker 1: than intended, like I thought it would be my go
Speaker 1: to whatever. So one day I walk out and someone
Speaker 1: in my neighborhood I live on the West Side, which
Speaker 1: which is lovely and beautiful, can be a little bit suburb,
Speaker 1: a little bit suburb. And I walk out and there
Speaker 1: is a sign on my car okay in front of
Speaker 1: my house that says, please move your car or we
Speaker 1: will have it towed. And it was one of those like,
Speaker 1: you know, I've only received I've only received a note
Speaker 1: like this once before in my life, and at the
Speaker 1: time it was in a neighborhood that I didn't live in.
Speaker 1: So I was like, fine, these people are assholes, you know, Like,
Speaker 1: I didn't intend to piss you off my car.
Speaker 3: You could have just told me. You know.
Speaker 1: The reason why it's messy is because I have now
Speaker 1: spent the last two weeks trying to figure out who
Speaker 1: wrote the notes? I am like, literally, I am pissed,
Speaker 1: and I am looking out my window every time someone
Speaker 1: walks out the door. I'm like, isn't it is her?
Speaker 1: So I'm kind of like in a secret war with
Speaker 1: with all of my neighbors and a.
Speaker 2: Suspect right now, yes, right, And I just it feels.
Speaker 1: It feels like one of the pettiest things you can do,
Speaker 1: you know, write a note and like I get it,
Speaker 1: like you want me to move the car. It had
Speaker 1: been around a couple of days, you know whatever. But like,
Speaker 1: but why did they want to move the car? Was
Speaker 1: it in a place that it shouldn't be part.
Speaker 3: It's a public street.
Speaker 1: But apparently there's a there's a law you can't have
Speaker 1: a car parked for more than seventy two hours without
Speaker 1: moving it. And let me tell you an hour seventy three.
Speaker 1: They put that.
Speaker 2: Note on a law.
Speaker 3: It's a law.
Speaker 1: That's a law where here Los Angeles County, Okay.
Speaker 2: That seems like a who is that benefite? Exactly? It's
Speaker 2: been you go on like a trip or something, you
Speaker 2: can't leave a car.
Speaker 1: They don't want you to leave the car. They don't
Speaker 1: want you you know, I live on the west side
Speaker 1: near the airport. And so one of my other neighbors
Speaker 1: who she's high on my sospect.
Speaker 2: Let's call her Belinda. I don't know why.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's call her Belinda.
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, Welinda.
Speaker 1: Belinda told me about the law the seventy two hours
Speaker 1: and she was like, well, you know, why did.
Speaker 2: She tell you about that? Now I'm figuring this out.
Speaker 2: Why did she tell you about the law? Did you
Speaker 2: ask her?
Speaker 3: Did she exactly?
Speaker 2: We were talking and she she said she had seen
Speaker 2: the note, okay, Melinda. And I was like, yeah, is
Speaker 2: it a big note or like, does she meant to
Speaker 2: bring it? It was a like like imagine paper that
Speaker 2: you It was green and it had it was written
Speaker 2: in orange marker. It was yeah, okay, it felt like
Speaker 2: it felt like someone who has a kid, which is God.
Speaker 2: I love this. So we know that they have construction paper.
Speaker 2: They got they got an ink that writes an orange,
Speaker 2: so they have kids parents.
Speaker 1: It was not a piece of paper an adult would write.
Speaker 1: Absolutely got it outside of the context of a child.
Speaker 2: Got it. Okay.
Speaker 1: So that's why Belinda she's kids. She doesn't, okay, but
Speaker 1: she does have grandkids.
Speaker 2: I was gonna take off, but she's very bad on.
Speaker 1: She's in there. So she saw me come in. It
Speaker 1: was like two or three weeks ago, and she said, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I did see your car that crazy note. You know,
Speaker 1: you can't keep it for more than seventy two hours.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, interesting, and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, people park here and they go to lax
Speaker 1: and they leave their car. And I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't really think they do that, Like I've never seen
Speaker 1: that be an issue.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So anyway, this is why it's messy, because I'm at
Speaker 1: an war with my neighbors, of course, And this is
Speaker 1: why I say, I really expanded the definition of relationship
Speaker 1: because I've been thinking a lot about community and thinking
Speaker 1: a lot about like how you live in community with
Speaker 1: people around you, yes, and how like for most of
Speaker 1: the winter, I mean, it was a really really lovely
Speaker 1: love my neighborhood, love my neighbors until two weeks ago.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and now I'm like, do I burn it all down?
Speaker 2: I mean I'm always gonna say yes, Wait, are there
Speaker 2: any other suspects beside Belinda?
Speaker 1: So across the street they have like three or four kids,
Speaker 1: And this is actually what pisses me off.
Speaker 3: Tell me they're loud all the time.
Speaker 1: And you know what, I don't care, Like that has
Speaker 1: never bothered you, not for a second. But for your
Speaker 1: kids to be loud and screaming bloody murder, I'm running
Speaker 1: up and down the street and then my car can't
Speaker 1: be in front of the house for more than seventy
Speaker 1: two hours.
Speaker 2: And this is the We're gonna call them the mcduffin family. Yes,
Speaker 2: for mcduffins. The mcduffins have the kids that are allowed.
Speaker 2: We think that, but what if So if they didn't
Speaker 2: write the note, We're okay with the loud kids.
Speaker 1: But if they did, now I'm like, come on, okay,
Speaker 1: class houses got it.
Speaker 3: I got a note for me, I got a note
Speaker 3: for you.
Speaker 2: Absolutely okay. So we have the mcduffins, we have Belinda.
Speaker 2: Anybody else's that those are the two main ones. Yes, okay.
Speaker 1: The other ones I don't know as well because they're
Speaker 1: not as like visible.
Speaker 2: Yes, I do find it strange. I will keep talking
Speaker 2: about this. I do find it. I'm also just sort
Speaker 2: of watching The Residents on Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Netflix. I'm
Speaker 2: just so curious about Belinda offering this information unprovoked and
Speaker 2: also like knowing about the note, like I never look
Speaker 2: at people's cars like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, so here's some more information. Okay, yes, she
Speaker 1: And this is also again when she's suspect number one.
Speaker 1: There is another neighbor on my side of the street
Speaker 1: who I guess. It's a big family, intergenerational family, a
Speaker 1: lot of adults living in the house, a lot of cars,
Speaker 1: and a lot of you know, limited driveway garage space.
Speaker 1: So they have a lot of cars in the street.
Speaker 1: And Belinda had threatened to have one of those cars toad.
Speaker 2: Belinda is the neighborhood car police.
Speaker 3: She is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's like president of next door, you know, absolutely,
Speaker 1: And so she told me that. She was telling me,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh yeah, And I feel so
Speaker 1: bad because I did, like, you know, it was sitting
Speaker 1: there for a couple of days, and when I saw
Speaker 1: the note, I got pissed. But then immediately I was like, well,
Speaker 1: how many times have they looked out this window and
Speaker 1: been like that that clunker?
Speaker 3: That?
Speaker 2: Why is that? I've said it? I feel like this
Speaker 2: thing about community and neighborhoods, and this is neighborhood I
Speaker 2: grew up in, which is like if if somebody's car
Speaker 2: was there, and we saw that it was about to
Speaker 2: get towed. Now calling you and say, hey, were about
Speaker 2: to get your car. That's right, you're saying like opposite, opposite,
Speaker 2: like but not I'm towing your car, Like, yeah, if
Speaker 2: your car is left there, I'm not like I know
Speaker 2: this your car, Okay, no problem. I would be helping
Speaker 2: you if, like I saw forces that outside of the
Speaker 2: neighborhood coming in to funk with your car.
Speaker 3: That's right. No, the forces are within within, That's why
Speaker 3: it's missing.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. See I don't like that. I don't
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 3: It immediately becomes like a horror film.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And when I say pressed up against the window while
Speaker 1: people walk by, that's like my face, Yeah, pressed.
Speaker 2: Up against Because I'm gonna find y'all with these Yeah,
Speaker 2: I got.
Speaker 3: A couple more days before I leave them. Fine, trust me.
Speaker 2: Before I get out of here, I'm gonna find out
Speaker 2: who you are and what would your retaliation be?
Speaker 3: Have you thought of this?
Speaker 2: If you discover that it's Belinda the mcduffin's.
Speaker 1: Or well, that's about Belinda. So she told this. She
Speaker 1: did put a note on someone else's car. She called
Speaker 1: the police, They came.
Speaker 2: Wait, so it's Belinda.
Speaker 1: I really think it could be, but it would be
Speaker 1: wild because she like, really I know her. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's like next door neighbor for a long this one.
Speaker 2: It always is. Don't you watch severance? Isn't this I
Speaker 2: know she's a little Yeah. Yeah, they can fuck you
Speaker 2: up totally.
Speaker 1: But she said to me, at least you feel bad.
Speaker 1: When I put the note on his car. He flipped
Speaker 1: me off.
Speaker 3: Belinda did it.
Speaker 2: And when I put the note on him, that's she
Speaker 2: told herself.
Speaker 3: Right, what are you right?
Speaker 1: Well, because then I said because then I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I wonder who did it, as in like allowing her
Speaker 1: the opportunity to be like, oh yeah I did it
Speaker 1: because I didn't want the other neighbors or I didn't
Speaker 1: want this, And she looked at me like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: wonder who did it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah she did it. She did it. She
Speaker 2: told on herself as she did it. She told you
Speaker 2: she put notes on the other people's car. She wanted
Speaker 2: at cart she did it.
Speaker 3: I think so too.
Speaker 2: Okay, so now you got to think about your retaliation.
Speaker 3: I know. But that's the thing.
Speaker 1: It's like across the street, I would be okay with
Speaker 1: next door.
Speaker 2: You love Blinda, it's a little too close to home.
Speaker 2: That's fair, right, it's fair. Well, thank you for that.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be thinking about Blinda for a long time.
Speaker 3: Paid for her.
Speaker 4: I'm very part. You know what that means. It's time
Speaker 4: for messymail.
Speaker 2: Are you down? I'm beautiful as always.
Speaker 3: Y'all.
Speaker 2: Submissions remain anonymous. This one says I've been having fun
Speaker 2: with sides recently, and I used to make fun of sides.
Speaker 2: I repent sides forever. Do you know what side is?
Speaker 2: I absolutely do ye'ah. If you know what side is
Speaker 2: basically everything with penetration. Has there been anything that you
Speaker 2: used to make fun of, or used to not be
Speaker 2: scared or be scared of, or even have like sexual
Speaker 2: disgust around that you now enjoy?
Speaker 1: Well, oh, that's an interesting question. The side part I'll
Speaker 1: start with. Let's start, which is this is all about
Speaker 1: my By the way, I think, between the last time
Speaker 1: I saw you and now I got a master's in
Speaker 1: gender studies, did I tell you that?
Speaker 2: No? Okay, I casual, I got bored, Oh my god,
Speaker 2: you got bored, and was like, let me go get
Speaker 2: a master's in gender studies.
Speaker 3: Literally, it's technically a master's in history, as my parents would.
Speaker 2: Not beautifle, but you specialized in the gender, story of.
Speaker 1: Gender and sexuality, and I was mostly looking at you know,
Speaker 1: my dissertation was on masculinity in early Soviet cinema, So
Speaker 1: like creation of masculinity, art types, archetypes in film, and
Speaker 1: the connection between the state and I mean literally all
Speaker 1: that we're going through right now, sort of like Stalin
Speaker 1: making a Soviet film industry in order to create masculine men. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and also like, no, you know whatever, very obsessed with
Speaker 1: a very particular type of body type.
Speaker 3: Why are you interested in that?
Speaker 1: Stalin is this series of Soviet exercise films that show
Speaker 1: like the ideal body type and they're very.
Speaker 3: Speaking it porn, very erotic.
Speaker 1: Quite yes, But so anyway, all of this to say,
Speaker 1: this is part of my big push to decenter the
Speaker 1: concept of penetration from sex. So you know, I don't
Speaker 1: identify as a side, I don't really identify as anything.
Speaker 3: In terms of top bottom dichotomy.
Speaker 1: But I think this is a really beautiful way for
Speaker 1: us to think about sex as being more than just penetration.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we always say your sex is not about penetration.
Speaker 2: I say, not just about penetration, But I really do
Speaker 2: think it's not about penetration. Penetration is that one of
Speaker 2: the tools you have in your sex box, but it's not.
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be the go to, shouldn't be the only
Speaker 2: It should be part of a larger masterpiece, if you will.
Speaker 2: And so the sides thing, you know, I used to
Speaker 2: hear a lot of I would see like a lot
Speaker 2: of just even like other podcasts or sex podcasts that
Speaker 2: would be disparaging towards sides, And like, what is that?
Speaker 2: I was like, first of all, I really do hate
Speaker 2: when marginalized groups then try to oppress other people. It's
Speaker 2: like people are disgusted by, you know, top and bottoming,
Speaker 2: by gay sex, so like why would you then take
Speaker 2: that disgust and put it on people who are like
Speaker 2: I don't want to do any of this or whatever
Speaker 2: that is. But the other thing is what I've learned
Speaker 2: is that I've actually had more intense orgasms not penetrating
Speaker 2: like penetration. I love it, don't get me wrong, gir
Speaker 2: I love it, but I have had really like transformative
Speaker 2: sexual experiences that involved no penetration. And so I actually
Speaker 2: think the sides are onto something quite incredible that actually
Speaker 2: accentuates the pleasure of sex, because sometimes the penetration is
Speaker 2: what we rely on. It's like when we fall back
Speaker 2: on put the dick in, so we know we had sex,
Speaker 2: it's but did you have pleasure? Was it? Was it transformative?
Speaker 2: Was it uh sexy? Was it like or was it
Speaker 2: just like you put a dig in a hole? Whereas
Speaker 2: when you're when you're side and and you know, I
Speaker 2: think that there are a lot of queer folks who
Speaker 2: know this, but it's like when you don't penetrate and
Speaker 2: you're just you're playing with your fingers, your mouth, your spit,
Speaker 2: You're like you're just heightening, heightening the experience. And it's
Speaker 2: so to this person, Yes, sides forever and prolonging.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think a lot of it also comes
Speaker 1: down to, like why do we think of penetration as
Speaker 1: the main event? Like socialized exactly and very like male
Speaker 1: sentest patriot, yes, right, whereas even.
Speaker 2: Sex education revolves around what it's a dick do?
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly exactly where you know, lesbians have been having
Speaker 1: non absolutely non penetrative sex for forever, yes, and yeah,
Speaker 1: so I wouldn't say that I made fun of sides ever,
Speaker 1: I definitely like had that same thought of like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe sex hasn't happened if penetration hasn't happened. Sure, but
Speaker 1: have been actively working to to change that.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think we all have right Like it literally is.
Speaker 2: I was talking about my sex head classes, which were
Speaker 2: literally put a condom on, and so even just even
Speaker 2: though that was the extent of the sex said class
Speaker 2: in middle school, it was clearly telling me that, like
Speaker 2: the the dick is going in this hole. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: that is what we're going to call sex. There was
Speaker 2: never anything about you know, we talk about I CANi
Speaker 2: finding your turn ons using the term beama. So your body, environment, mood, accoutrement.
Speaker 2: So we're on your body. Do you like to be
Speaker 2: touched or kissed or licked? Where do you like to
Speaker 2: have sexy environment? What kind of vibes do you want?
Speaker 2: The mood and the accoutrement? What do you need? Yes?
Speaker 2: Absolutely so when you think about accoutrements, you need to
Speaker 2: trap one. Do you need lube? Do you need a
Speaker 2: cockran We're not taught to like expand and think about
Speaker 2: the think about sex as an experience not just an event.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And to your point about that sex education, it's
Speaker 1: also a very straight focus.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah for sure, head for sure.
Speaker 1: And I get it, Like a big part of our
Speaker 1: sex education growing up was, you know, to oh, we're
Speaker 1: both from Georgia.
Speaker 2: I went to school in Georgia from you. Oh that's right, yeah,
Speaker 2: go to high school in Georgia.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1: You know, Like my school was a very it was
Speaker 1: a liberal school, but obviously parents were worried about pregnancy
Speaker 1: and and STDs. So it's very focused on like a
Speaker 1: fear based you know whatever. But and I get that,
Speaker 1: like you don't want your kids getting pregnant, you don't
Speaker 1: want to be responsible for teaching kids sex education. Then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, everyone's pregnant. Sure, there's some like
Speaker 1: fear there, but then yeah, you kind of grew up
Speaker 1: and you're like, okay, well how do how do we
Speaker 1: do it?
Speaker 3: Then?
Speaker 1: And also, lets what does it mean? You know, like
Speaker 1: what does virginity even mean in the context of a
Speaker 1: gay male relationship, yes, or a lesbian relationship you know.
Speaker 2: Well, even the idea of virginity like what like this
Speaker 2: exactly folding of purity and that like you're not pure
Speaker 2: if you like all of that which is more so
Speaker 2: pressure on the volva owners the female You're like, you know,
Speaker 2: you have to keep it for your wedding day or whatever.
Speaker 2: You always don't have the same the same pressure in
Speaker 2: that social pressure in that way. But it's like what
Speaker 2: is who? I always think about, like who is that for?
Speaker 2: Right when you when you adopt some of those values
Speaker 2: as your own, I think as an adult, it's pulling
Speaker 2: out and being like, well, who is that for? Even
Speaker 2: when I think about like being a quote unquote ho,
Speaker 2: which you will describe as like you're miscuous or you
Speaker 2: sleep with a lot of people or you have a
Speaker 2: lot of sex. But the shame around that, it's like, well,
Speaker 2: whose shame is that? Like why should you have shame about?
Speaker 2: You're taking care of yourself, your body, your partners, like
Speaker 2: fuck as people you want, Why should you feel shame
Speaker 2: around that? Who does that? Who do is you having shame? Benefit?
Speaker 2: And I think women know this well right, Like it
Speaker 2: benefits It keeps women in their place for them to
Speaker 2: feel a shame, whereas boys can you know, put their
Speaker 2: dick in anything and do whatever they want and we're
Speaker 2: like go off babe, right wow, Okay, good side, good
Speaker 2: resides listen, don't please do not knock aside for any reason,
Speaker 2: but especially like they are actually uh experiencing experiencing the body.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And also last thing I would say, I I have
Speaker 1: been talking with a lot of friends who've been experiencing
Speaker 1: a lot of bottom anxiety.
Speaker 2: And there's just what's anxiety coming from from seration?
Speaker 1: Yes, ex Actually there's a lot of like, you know,
Speaker 1: logistics that have to happen in anal sex that people
Speaker 1: that make it perhaps less spontaneous sometimes.
Speaker 3: Or less available.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so I think that is a really great
Speaker 1: way to remove that pressure from yourself from your relationship
Speaker 1: where you can still feel like you've had sex.
Speaker 3: With yeah, having to penetrate absolutely.
Speaker 2: I because let me say this about bottoming, because for me,
Speaker 2: douching takes like forty five minutes to an hour. I
Speaker 2: don't know if I want to do that for averybody.
Speaker 2: You know, like if I'm going out to a sex
Speaker 2: party and like I can whatever, like go off, but
Speaker 2: like just as a time in a place of absolutely,
Speaker 2: if I'm in Madrid, honey, get you understand, I'm not
Speaker 2: walking out, I'm not stepping out the door without being
Speaker 2: douched and ready. But in general it's like, oh, I'm
Speaker 2: just meeting this new person. I don't know if I
Speaker 2: want to do all that for this because I don't
Speaker 2: know what this chemistry is going to be. And so
Speaker 2: there's something about taking that off the table that also
Speaker 2: allows I find for myself, allows me to just like
Speaker 2: show up and be as opposed to having anxiety over well,
Speaker 2: this is the penetration going to be good? Like what
Speaker 2: do I Did I eat enough? Did I not eat enough?
Speaker 2: All that stuff around somebody who I may not even
Speaker 2: be excited about having sex with quite yet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we've already established that angry is a bad
Speaker 3: place for.
Speaker 2: Hungry is a bad place to be. It's just not
Speaker 2: it's just not you do not want to have sex
Speaker 2: hungry because sex and athletic. That's right, you need come on,
Speaker 2: so you need to have calories in you. But it's
Speaker 2: there is a there's a math, there's a budgeting that
Speaker 2: that's a budgeting of food that happens, and I don't
Speaker 2: want to do that for everybody, And so I think
Speaker 2: it's totally fair to be like, there's no penetration on
Speaker 2: the table and we get to and I think that
Speaker 2: when you say that up front or when I said
Speaker 2: that up front, where it's like what are you looking
Speaker 2: for out of this? Or like maybe we're not gonna
Speaker 2: have penetration, We're just gonna hang both of us. I think,
Speaker 2: just like exhale, there are scenarios where you know the
Speaker 2: person may not excel because all they want is pussy
Speaker 2: it from someone who's actually really wants to get to
Speaker 2: know you and wants to take that time. I think
Speaker 2: we'll exhale with you on that and be like cool,
Speaker 2: like no pressure there, because also topping is pressure, let
Speaker 2: me not, let me not, you know, bottoming is pressure,
Speaker 2: but also topping and lasting and totally not coming too
Speaker 2: soon is its own set of anxiety. Yeah yeah, actually
Speaker 2: wait I love this one. Hold on this one says
Speaker 2: went to a sex cleve with two men and my
Speaker 2: ex was working the door. Are he watched? I win
Speaker 2: that your face? Your face, your face, tell me what
Speaker 2: your face? Your feelings are high? Stakes are high. But
Speaker 2: how satisfying to go to a sex club with two
Speaker 2: beautiful men and your ex is working the door and
Speaker 2: then he has to watch you gif up.
Speaker 1: Yeh up, Okay see that feeling, Yes, is what I
Speaker 1: want from my when I get back in my neighbors.
Speaker 3: That is exactly.
Speaker 2: I don't know how that's what you want with Melinda.
Speaker 2: I want Belinda to watch me win. Yes, yeah, that
Speaker 2: is correct. There's no better high. Absolutely, success is the
Speaker 2: best Forbade absolutely to succeed. I just feel like this
Speaker 2: scenario is like the perfect end to a rom com.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's exactly whe my head went to. I'm like, yes,
Speaker 2: so she got the boys and her ma has to
Speaker 2: watch her excess to watch when this person ended. I win? Absolutely,
Speaker 2: maybe you you did win? You know in the air.
Speaker 1: I want to know what happened in that breakup. I
Speaker 1: want to know, like the short of the juice, the details,
Speaker 1: how did we get to here? We get how did
Speaker 1: we get to this breakup? And how did we get
Speaker 1: to the ex working the door at the sex party? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would you know? In our scripted version, I think
Speaker 1: you know that your ex is working the door.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 1: Well, that's that's with the rom com that it could
Speaker 1: go two ways. Be like, that's the fantasy, that's what
Speaker 1: we're like aiming for, and then the reality is more
Speaker 1: like the guys who show up aren't that hot.
Speaker 3: You can't get into the club, or you know.
Speaker 2: But what I want is that the guys are gorgeous
Speaker 2: and and you do get in just to watch. I
Speaker 2: love that. And your ex tries to get into the
Speaker 2: club and for whatever reason, the club forgets he works.
Speaker 3: There, and then kick him out.
Speaker 2: The X gets fired fired on the shift, and then
Speaker 2: your VIP all night and they give you free drinks.
Speaker 2: This is this is the fantasy that I want for all.
Speaker 3: You do it you do?
Speaker 2: Okay. This one says I'm going on a date with
Speaker 2: a girl. My former situationship is also seeing. Do I
Speaker 2: steal his girl? I mean that would be mess.
Speaker 1: See, Okay, I'm going okay, so let me just yeah.
Speaker 2: Let's do the math. I'm going on a date with
Speaker 2: a girl. My former situationship is also seeing. Okay, do
Speaker 2: I steal his girl? So the girl is the mutual? Yeah,
Speaker 2: these two people are both engaged. Yes, do you have
Speaker 2: the power to steal the girl? You better say that.
Speaker 2: You better say that. Also, if you're both seeing her,
Speaker 2: it's not his girl. She don't belong to nobody, that's right,
Speaker 2: she's her own. She's obviously dating.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I hate to break it. You're
Speaker 1: in the power.
Speaker 2: I don't actually know if you can, she's the one
Speaker 2: who's actually winning.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, wait a minute, then you're in the passage.
Speaker 2: See absolutely, I mean, but but I do respect. Here's
Speaker 2: the thing. If you're asking should you see his girl,
Speaker 2: I'm assuming that situation ship did not work out well?
Speaker 2: But also how messy is that because you were in
Speaker 2: a situation with that person and now they're with this person,
Speaker 2: but you're also seeing that person, so he's in a
Speaker 2: situationship with that person. So why are you trying to think?
Speaker 3: If I can tell this story a friend.
Speaker 2: And whatever, we can foozball it, youkay, we can edit
Speaker 2: things out, so go ahead.
Speaker 1: Well okay, okay, I'll tell it, and I'll i'll we'll
Speaker 1: see if it feels abstracted. Okay, So basically, this exact
Speaker 1: situation is happening. Happened to a friend of mine where
Speaker 1: she was seeing this guy for a long time and
Speaker 1: just kind of like not the vibe.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: He kind of.
Speaker 1: Is like got a little too big for his britches,
Speaker 1: very small community, but feels like that's it. He's like
Speaker 1: his little king of his little castle, you know. And
Speaker 1: she's globally minded. She's like here, she's there, she's like,
Speaker 1: your little castle is really like a place at but
Speaker 1: but go off right drager. So anyway, they're kind of
Speaker 1: like separating. He I think he had sex with someone
Speaker 1: who was married, a woman who was married, and sort
Speaker 1: of like prompted the divorce was already happening, right, but
Speaker 1: definitely like that was yeah, there was like an overlap, right,
Speaker 1: like they had already decided it was going out whatever.
Speaker 1: This friend ends up going out for a work drinks
Speaker 1: a random guy who has reached out to her and like, oh,
Speaker 1: I found your information and like I really want to
Speaker 1: talk to you about your work. I think, like what
Speaker 1: like five or ten minutes into the conversation, he's like,
Speaker 1: you know your ex is fucking my.
Speaker 3: Wife, Isn't that wild?
Speaker 2: Clark. I can't imagine showing up, getting myself dressed to
Speaker 2: go to what I thought mean a work meeting. Honey,
Speaker 2: I'm ready, I got my iPad, I got my files
Speaker 2: on the computer. It's like work on the pitch. It's
Speaker 2: noon on a Tuesday. It's a fresh noon on a Tuesday.
Speaker 2: I am ready. I show up to this meeting. And
Speaker 2: then five minutes into what I think is a work meeting,
Speaker 2: this man says, your ex is sucking my wife. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what do you say?
Speaker 1: You called the waiter and you say, you know, actually
Speaker 1: that coffee, Let me get the Martin. She was like, okay,
Speaker 1: so this is not a work meeting. I want that
Speaker 1: to be her next line, Oh so this is an
Speaker 1: org meeting.
Speaker 3: I got it. So no, I'm like, I.
Speaker 1: See the messiness. I get the messiness. I think this
Speaker 1: this particular person who's written in, I think you're just
Speaker 1: along for the ride. Yeah, I think you enjoy it.
Speaker 1: I also think, you know, it can be fun to
Speaker 1: engage in, like getting back at you know, the.
Speaker 3: Fine.
Speaker 2: But also also why why I do think like listen,
Speaker 2: I love I love the petty stories, and I love
Speaker 2: the petty fantasies. We love a fantasy. But I think
Speaker 2: sometimes in executing it, it's just like it would just
Speaker 2: be easier for you to just move on, you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, Like, you know, it's like we don't
Speaker 2: need that karma, we don't need the whatever, Like I
Speaker 2: don't need to because then also like if if you're
Speaker 2: stealing quote unquote stealing the girl, then now she's kind
Speaker 2: of a random heart that gets pulled into this, which
Speaker 2: is exactly. You're doing this because you want to get
Speaker 2: back at that person, but this is she's actually trying
Speaker 2: to date you, and so now you know, it just
Speaker 2: becomes murky and more people get hurt than need to
Speaker 2: be hurt. And so I'm like, have the fantasies play
Speaker 2: it out. If it works out that you show up
Speaker 2: at the club with your two men your ex is
Speaker 2: working the door, fabulous, like, if that's how it works out,
Speaker 2: But otherwise move on.
Speaker 1: You know, you know that is the exact difference between
Speaker 1: those two where the serendipity of the moment of showing
Speaker 1: up at the club the magic. You know, you're you
Speaker 1: are just living your life. As you said, living a
Speaker 1: good life is the best revenge. Yes, absolutely, go for it,
Speaker 1: live a good life. If you get that moment, you.
Speaker 2: Get that way, yes, yes, But to seek it out, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm always like keep your side of the street clean.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, you know, like your car park move it every.
Speaker 2: Okay, this, I'm like, let it go. While you're like
Speaker 2: still plotting, I'm about to get I have a couple
Speaker 2: of days, so I leave.
Speaker 3: I say, not gonna catch.
Speaker 2: Up in a red handed You should park another car
Speaker 2: for the next seventy two hours and then just put
Speaker 2: a camera on it and wait because they want to
Speaker 2: hit that car too. That's right, So you should you
Speaker 2: should like go to like what is it?
Speaker 1: Oh, enterprise, enterprise, you're gonna know what I just so
Speaker 1: I have a ring camera. I haven't thought to look
Speaker 1: at the goodness because it's not my house and it's
Speaker 1: a it's a family house, and I but there's a
Speaker 1: ring can I just learned that.
Speaker 3: They record, they pay for the recording service.
Speaker 2: We're about to catch Melinda in the act. That's right, Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 2: If that doesn't work though, they get the car from enterprise.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna find it out one way or another. This
Speaker 2: one says I got a promotion last week and almost
Speaker 2: celebrated by blowing a coworker in the bathroom. Oh that's
Speaker 2: what I said. I have. I'll say this. I've always
Speaker 2: when I guess when I get like some kind of win,
Speaker 2: I'm always like, give me cookies to dinner. But I've
Speaker 2: never gotten a promotion at work and then thought to
Speaker 2: suck in fact, the opposite, right, because if I got
Speaker 2: a promotion, cars looking at me even more.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 2: It sounds like this person just wants to blow the color.
Speaker 2: That is what it sounds like. You're just like you
Speaker 2: need an excuse to suck.
Speaker 1: This person walks in and then like, oh it's Monday, blows.
Speaker 3: Nothing to do with the promotion. Really, I got a promotion.
Speaker 2: Where's my coworker? Right?
Speaker 1: I can relate to that sometimes. I mean, Mindy Kayling
Speaker 1: was just talking about this in an interview, not blowing
Speaker 1: a coworker, but I think it was in her conversation
Speaker 1: with Kate Hudson at the ninety second Street Why, like
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, talking about her show Running Point,
Speaker 1: which I love, Yes, And she was talking about how,
Speaker 1: you know, the office obviously comes up a lot because
Speaker 1: it was her first big job, and how office places romances,
Speaker 1: how common they are, and how it makes sense that
Speaker 1: you fall in love with the people that you're spending
Speaker 1: fifty hours, Yeah, the intimacy that builds, yes, and also
Speaker 1: how they're kind of I mean similar to severance. How
Speaker 1: they are these liminal spaces where you like go out
Speaker 1: into the world, yeah, and live your lives, but then
Speaker 1: you have these separate that.
Speaker 3: Only you guys know about your work.
Speaker 2: Ye, it's half your life.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's it's and it's also the
Speaker 1: thing that provides for the rest of your life, which
Speaker 1: is two thing. But so I know that feeling and
Speaker 1: a shared experience, you feel seen by that person. That's right,
Speaker 1: and it's it's also the kind of intimacy that you
Speaker 1: really only get with partners. You're like sitting next to
Speaker 1: this person all day long, just like not talking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or you're or you're working on projects together. You're
Speaker 2: building things from scratch together, You're going up against obstacles together,
Speaker 2: You're you're overcoming those obstacles together. Oh yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 2: could see that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think back I had a couple of
Speaker 1: coworkers that I would have celebrated with, yes at this
Speaker 1: one job, and I just think back to how we
Speaker 1: would like, you know, there's plenty of conversation happening and whatever,
Speaker 1: but there would be long stretches of just like you know, and.
Speaker 2: Like that's just intimate where you're just it's a thing.
Speaker 2: It's like where I think the best friendships exist, which
Speaker 2: is your able to just like hang out and not
Speaker 2: talk and just can't be in the same space existing.
Speaker 2: It's the most intimate thing. I think of a marriage
Speaker 2: of your best friendships and so that makes sense. With
Speaker 2: your coworkers, we're just like sitting here in the space,
Speaker 2: working together, not talking. But the breath is being exchanged,
Speaker 2: the energy is being exchanged.
Speaker 3: It's very ill the body.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very side energy. That is a connection, right,
Speaker 2: It's like it's that energy of like, oh, we don't
Speaker 2: need to penetrate, but like that there is the It's
Speaker 2: about the energy, it's about the flow, it's about being.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's my whole delusion, Brandon. I've been in
Speaker 1: a lot of relationships with people. That doesn't mean they
Speaker 1: were in relationships with me too. Okay, you can say
Speaker 1: you might have a lot of gym crushes, subway crushes.
Speaker 2: I'm in full relationships with them.
Speaker 1: I with xes to yeah, I sort of you know,
Speaker 1: are we going to talk about being single?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're about to do yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, So this is a good segue too. I don't
Speaker 1: mean to take over your past, but take it. This
Speaker 1: is a good segue into I've been single for a
Speaker 1: very long time and also like I have not been
Speaker 1: in a long term relationship in a long time. But
Speaker 1: I love of romantic comedies. All of my writing is
Speaker 1: in the romance love space. My substack is all about
Speaker 1: like falling in love with a man on the train. Yes,
Speaker 1: very delusional carry Bradshaw type thing. And I make this
Speaker 1: joke that you know I have a lot of xes.
Speaker 1: I call a lot of people my exes, Yes, and
Speaker 1: they many of them would be shocked to hear that.
Speaker 2: I feel like, didn'ts inmership with you?
Speaker 3: And who are you?
Speaker 2: I's your name? Well?
Speaker 3: New phone? Who is like?
Speaker 2: I never even had your phone number? Yes? Absolutely, well
Speaker 2: let me ask you. We'll let's read this one because
Speaker 2: this submission feels right on the topic of that which
Speaker 2: they said. I'm tired of the dating carousel and being
Speaker 2: alone as I'm getting older. Most of my friends are
Speaker 2: now in relationships and hitting new milestones, buying houses, starting families,
Speaker 2: and I'm here sipping wine and eating ice cream. Ain't
Speaker 2: nothing wrong with that. I love so I love so
Speaker 2: much of my life, but it feels as though people
Speaker 2: are looking at me like I'm broken because I'm in
Speaker 2: my late thirty and still single. I want to find
Speaker 2: my person.
Speaker 1: But how see this? And this is what I texted
Speaker 1: you about earlier. I've been thinking about this a lot
Speaker 1: because I just turned thirty four.
Speaker 3: A cup a week ago, Happy birthday, Thank you. I
Speaker 3: was fishing, and.
Speaker 1: I have been feeling this a lot where I go
Speaker 1: to a lot of dinner parties and I'm friends with
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are older late thirties or
Speaker 1: early forties, and similarly, like have you know kids or
Speaker 1: houses or all these milestones. It is such a great
Speaker 1: word because you feel this pressure to do things in
Speaker 1: a certain order and also to do them at a
Speaker 1: certain pace.
Speaker 2: Ime yah pace. And that's why I mentioned the concept
Speaker 2: of queer temporality. Will you explain what that is?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's this, It's basically the idea that we
Speaker 1: as queer people experience life on a different timeline because
Speaker 1: and not just life, but development as well. So if
Speaker 1: you think, like I came out to myself, yeah at
Speaker 1: thirteen or fourteen, but there are plenty of people who
Speaker 1: I know, people who've only just come out a year ago,
Speaker 1: and I'm my same age. So how could we possibly
Speaker 1: be on the same developmental timeline as queer people If
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about and envisioning and imagining my life
Speaker 1: as a queer person for twenty years and they've been
Speaker 1: thinking about it for like a couple of weeks, Right,
Speaker 1: you know, and sometimes you go on a date with
Speaker 1: someone you realize like, oh right, you're at a different,
Speaker 1: different part of your journey. And I think part of
Speaker 1: what is so the reason why I like this concept
Speaker 1: too is because I get it from queer people. I
Speaker 1: get it from plenty of gay friends who are in relationships,
Speaker 1: or I've gone to plenty of weddings of gay friends,
Speaker 1: but I mostly get it from my straight friends. I
Speaker 1: mostly get it. I mentioned what I call the Bridget
Speaker 1: Jones effect. I mostly get it where I'm at the
Speaker 1: dinner table. Everyone else is in a relationship and conversation
Speaker 1: is going great, and then all of a sudden, the
Speaker 1: heads turn and everyone's looking at me. Why is everyone
Speaker 1: single these days?
Speaker 3: Clark? You know, like, what's going on? And you're just like, huh.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't answer that person's question of you know,
Speaker 1: you want to find your person and how do you
Speaker 1: do it. I am at a point in my life
Speaker 1: where I am living a beautiful I'm actually very proud
Speaker 1: of myself. I told you before we started, I got
Speaker 1: a visa to go to Paris on my own. I'm
Speaker 1: building a life as an artist, and my life is
Speaker 1: exciting and it's thrilling, and it's full. This approach revolutionized
Speaker 1: my relationship with La, which I hated for so long.
Speaker 1: Now I love it because because I'm living a real
Speaker 1: life here, you know, I'm not like begging the city
Speaker 1: to give me things and building community.
Speaker 3: I'm showing up for people, and I'm at.
Speaker 1: A place where I'm kind of like, if that puts
Speaker 1: me in the position where I meet someone and they're
Speaker 1: additive to my life, then I welcome that.
Speaker 3: And I'm very open. My energy is very open to that.
Speaker 1: I'm consciously putting myself in queer spaces with people who
Speaker 1: are similarly aged and also similarly creative or internationally minded,
Speaker 1: you know, so basically curating my life such that the
Speaker 1: people that I meet are also living a similar.
Speaker 2: Type of life.
Speaker 1: And then if something happens with one of them, great,
Speaker 1: and also if not, as will be said, I don't
Speaker 1: want someone in my house.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. I think about that often. I have
Speaker 2: two partners, and I love them both, but I think
Speaker 2: that relationships are so romanticized when actually they take a
Speaker 2: lot of work, and sometimes I think it is better
Speaker 2: to just be chillen by yourself, happy built architecting the
Speaker 2: life that you want then to be trying to architect
Speaker 2: a life around having somebody in your house who you
Speaker 2: may not even like, who might not even be additive
Speaker 2: to what you're trying to do. I think what I
Speaker 2: think about is what you just told me, that story
Speaker 2: where the straight friends turn to you and say, tell
Speaker 2: me about being single. And it's not about the question
Speaker 2: about being single, but it's the tone that it's being
Speaker 2: said with, because there's nothing wrong with being single, and
Speaker 2: there are people who actively do not are not interested
Speaker 2: in a partnership, or interested in a monogamous partnership, and
Speaker 2: those those ways of living are just as valid. But
Speaker 2: we are socialized to believe that if you do not have,
Speaker 2: as this person said, I feel broken or people looking
Speaker 2: at me like I'm broken, if you don't have a partner,
Speaker 2: then suddenly there's something wrong with you. And it's like
Speaker 2: why why are people single? It's like I don't know, babe,
Speaker 2: like my choice whatever, Like they live in their life.
Speaker 2: That's not why is that the question? Why is the
Speaker 2: question not? Like I heard you going to Paris about that,
Speaker 2: Like that's far more interesting than you know who you're
Speaker 2: dating or who you're fucking, or who you're in love
Speaker 2: with but we're so it is ingrained in culture. I
Speaker 2: mean it's in everything, right, like every book, every even
Speaker 2: like I'll never forget what was it called Raila Davis's
Speaker 2: movie Woman King, and they talked about it because there's
Speaker 2: a random like that movie is ferocious and those women
Speaker 2: are just fucking masterful in it, but there's a random
Speaker 2: love story that feels so out of place. And I
Speaker 2: think Viola talks about this, which is like the studio
Speaker 2: wanted that love story because they didn't think it would
Speaker 2: work if there wasn't some kind of one of them
Speaker 2: falling in love. And it feels out of place because
Speaker 2: you're like, you don't need it. But we're so socialized
Speaker 2: from a media standpoint that everything you create has to
Speaker 2: include I mean, look at all the shows you're watching,
Speaker 2: like there is a love story in it, Yeah, and
Speaker 2: so you are being conditioned to believe that you cannot
Speaker 2: exist or thrive alone. I recently watched Eat, Pray Love.
Speaker 2: It was so watching it. I don't know if I
Speaker 2: said it on the show, but it's the first time
Speaker 2: watching it, and I was so pissed at the ending
Speaker 2: because she ends up with another man. I was like
Speaker 2: the whole thing was her finding herself. How does she
Speaker 2: end up with this man at the end like she's
Speaker 2: supposed to? Like why is it? Why is the movie
Speaker 2: or why would we not find her story successful? She
Speaker 2: got divorced At the top of the movie, she goes
Speaker 2: exploring and traveling, she finds herself. Why is that not
Speaker 2: satisfying enough? Why is it that she has to find
Speaker 2: another man in order for her to feel whole? Like
Speaker 2: that is so infuriating because I think then it also
Speaker 2: works on those who are single to make them think
Speaker 2: as well. And you tell me if I'm wrong, you
Speaker 2: can do the work to combat it. But it's still
Speaker 2: like this default where like, oh is something wrong with me?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like I should be I should be doing
Speaker 1: the work, I'm misting something.
Speaker 2: I'm not doing something, or there's something off with how
Speaker 2: I'm approaching this or I should be approached like you
Speaker 2: start to try and plot how to get this other person.
Speaker 2: Whereas to answer this question more directly, I really always
Speaker 2: say there's this desire for us to find our other
Speaker 2: halves in this way that we approach dating and marriage
Speaker 2: and love where it's like I'm not complete until I
Speaker 2: have this other person and I really want us to
Speaker 2: shift that and say I complete myself. And if this
Speaker 2: person comes in, they're additive, They're an expansion of who
Speaker 2: I am. And that to me too, makes the pressure
Speaker 2: off of the dating, because if you think about it,
Speaker 2: if you're coming at dating from a space of like
Speaker 2: I need to find my other half, then you're showing
Speaker 2: up on your dates where this other person is now
Speaker 2: going to become responsible for fixing you, for making your whole,
Speaker 2: and they're putting that pressure on you, and that's an
Speaker 2: impossible task to complete. Even the ones who think they're
Speaker 2: doing it end up it ends up straining the relationship
Speaker 2: because you haven't figured out how to be enough for yourself.
Speaker 2: You haven't figured out how to spread your cards around
Speaker 2: to not just your romantic partner, but to your friends,
Speaker 2: to your community, to Belinda. I love Belinda, but it's
Speaker 2: like when your romantic partner becomes the be all end all,
Speaker 2: that's a lot of pressure you're putting on them, and
Speaker 2: a lot of pressure for you that no person, no
Speaker 2: one person, should be able to hold. I can't be
Speaker 2: responsible for you feeling lovable. I can't be responsible for
Speaker 2: you feeling whole. I can only expand and accentuate and
Speaker 2: hype you up and and reaffirm what you know about yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I also think the two things I want to say. One,
Speaker 1: Aprey Love is such a great example because the secret
Speaker 1: of Apray love that many people know, but that you
Speaker 1: don't think of when you just watch the film. She
Speaker 1: sold the book before she wrote the book. She sold
Speaker 1: the book before she went on the trip, right, so
Speaker 1: she pitched the idea of I'm going to go I'm
Speaker 1: going to find myself. I'm similar to like the Viola
Speaker 1: Day of Julia Roberts relationship in the film. I read
Speaker 1: that book and thought like, oh, this person went on
Speaker 1: a journey and wrote it and then like you know,
Speaker 1: like I have this brilliant book here, but I'm but
Speaker 1: it's kind of like the love story to me is
Speaker 1: really like that author Elizabeth Gilbert and herself, Yes, writing
Speaker 1: a book, coming up with an idea, pitching it, selling it,
Speaker 1: and then writing it and cashing the fus love story.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's what's interesting to know, like getting that in
Speaker 1: order for it to sell, it had to have this.
Speaker 3: I had to have that.
Speaker 2: Sure.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that I don't know what her
Speaker 1: like romantic life. I don't eat now.
Speaker 2: I don't either. I know a little bit about it actually,
Speaker 2: but but you know, just the way that that that
Speaker 2: movie ending, and I haven't read the book, but the
Speaker 2: movie ending just felt so forced, not in a this
Speaker 2: is not a critique on the writing. It felt like
Speaker 2: a studio for it felt totally. It did not feel
Speaker 2: like the author was like, I want to make sure
Speaker 2: that she finds a partner at the end. It felt
Speaker 2: like the whole thing was I'm finding myself. And then
Speaker 2: some studio exec said, but she needs a man. Who
Speaker 2: is she without a man? And like that, who, indeed,
Speaker 2: who are you without a man? Is such a you know,
Speaker 2: such a fucked up legacy of our culture, the thing
Speaker 2: that we perpetuate, that would perpetuate to women. And then
Speaker 2: I think also the gays adopt as well, totally, you know,
Speaker 2: the homosexuals, I think we adopt that that's same because
Speaker 2: we fall into the heterosexual dynamics.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 1: Well, well, because like you know, you have all these
Speaker 1: I just got a birth announcement. I got two this week, actually,
Speaker 1: one in the male and one via text of friends
Speaker 1: who are my age one who's a year younger, just
Speaker 1: had his first child, one who is exactly my age
Speaker 1: and has three Yeah, had his third child, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know, our lives could not be more different as
Speaker 1: a wife and a house and three kids. And the
Speaker 1: other thing I was going to say was that using
Speaker 1: the concept of career temporality, applying that to your life,
Speaker 1: one of the beautiful things is that you can do
Speaker 1: things out of order. You know, Like I realized a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago that having kids is something that's
Speaker 1: interesting to me, and it's not something that's interesting only
Speaker 1: within the context of a relationship like a man I
Speaker 1: have yess and I can have kids. For me, it's
Speaker 1: more of a financial barrier. There's like a financial milestone
Speaker 1: I want to cross before I feel comfortable having a child.
Speaker 1: But you know, I look to people like Shonda Mindy
Speaker 1: or all these people who are single, have work success,
Speaker 1: have close family and friend relationships that make them feel whole,
Speaker 1: have kids, and that feels beautiful to me, you know, like,
Speaker 1: I really don't think that the other side of it.
Speaker 1: And this is where I'm curious your thoughts as a
Speaker 1: person who's in relationships. Yeah, part of me, the only
Speaker 1: thing voice in the back of my head, having very
Speaker 1: consciously over these past two and a half years, built
Speaker 1: a life that I love and I'm excited about.
Speaker 3: It's very new. Yeah, Like I have been clinically depressed
Speaker 3: for a long time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like woke up the other day and was like, whoa,
Speaker 1: I haven't been depressed in like seven months, wow.
Speaker 3: Which is wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was like always going to be
Speaker 1: part of my life. But the only thing that creeps
Speaker 1: into the back of my mind from now from time
Speaker 1: to time is that the party line is that you
Speaker 1: have to be putting yourself out there. You have to
Speaker 1: be on the dating apps, or you have to be
Speaker 1: going on days. I heard at one of these dinner
Speaker 1: parties someone told me a story about how their friend
Speaker 1: realized he's always out of town for work. It's like
Speaker 1: a camera operator or something. Yeah, so when he's back
Speaker 1: in town, the only way he would meet someone is
Speaker 1: if he consciously went on dates. Yeah, And he was
Speaker 1: going on up to three dates a day for like
Speaker 1: three to six months, and then he found someone and
Speaker 1: now they're married, And I was like, see, but that
Speaker 1: to me feels like reverse engineering in a way that like,
Speaker 1: I don't need to be that married I would like to.
Speaker 1: I would love to be surprised by life. Sure that
Speaker 1: brings me a partner that warrants marriage, but I really don't.
Speaker 1: I'm not going on love is blind, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. I'm not like, I don't want to just
Speaker 1: marry anyone.
Speaker 2: I'm with you on that, And I mean, like, go
Speaker 2: off if you want to go on three dates a
Speaker 2: day to find your partner, you know, that makes it
Speaker 2: sounds like you're thinking about as like a numbers game,
Speaker 2: Like yeah, totally, the more people you see, the more
Speaker 2: likely you'll meet the person, which go off. Also great,
Speaker 2: by the way, that is actually great. Wrong, We've ten
Speaker 2: We've written ten movies today. I just want to checks time.
Speaker 2: But I I for me, it feels still burdensome and
Speaker 2: not that I want. Love is work, absolutely, but I
Speaker 2: would rather be spending that time working on myself and
Speaker 2: building up myself and my life and my community and
Speaker 2: have somebody be able to organically be part of that
Speaker 2: as opposed to because I think sometimes what happens culture
Speaker 2: is like we spend all that time working on that
Speaker 2: relationship and then we disappear with that relationship, and so
Speaker 2: now we're pulling back from our community for that person
Speaker 2: and for our family and whatnot. And it's like then
Speaker 2: you lose yourself in that end no shade, but like
Speaker 2: divorce happens. So then you've been in this relationship for ten, fifteen,
Speaker 2: twenty years, isolating yourself from everyone else, and then that
Speaker 2: relationship ends, and where are your people? You haven't actually
Speaker 2: been investing in them. And that's why it's like, you
Speaker 2: can get married, you can whatever, but like it shouldn't
Speaker 2: become the be all end all. And that's not because
Speaker 2: you might break up, but like life happens people you know, partners,
Speaker 2: I like not to be worried, but like you were,
Speaker 2: the fantasy that we are the only two in the
Speaker 2: world forever and ever is a fantasy. The reality is
Speaker 2: you need community. And so I would rather spend my
Speaker 2: time building out my life and let the straits ask
Speaker 2: me what it is to be single all they want
Speaker 2: and it's like, that's none of my business. I'm going
Speaker 2: to Paris tomorrow. You tell me what it is and
Speaker 2: go from there, and just like work on understanding that
Speaker 2: I am enough as I am, because that's where I
Speaker 2: want to meet a partner. I want to meet a
Speaker 2: partner who again I know is being additive. It's the
Speaker 2: same thing I twitched managers last year. Brief anecdotic. I
Speaker 2: switched managers and for a couple of months I managed
Speaker 2: my career myself because I wanted to figure out what
Speaker 2: was being done and what were the elements of my career.
Speaker 2: And sometimes I think that we don't know the elements
Speaker 2: of our life. We look for somebody to come in
Speaker 2: and tell us what it is, and it's like, no,
Speaker 2: you be in charge of it. You figure out what
Speaker 2: it is. What do you want, what do you like
Speaker 2: about yourself, love about yourself, love about your life, and
Speaker 2: then let somebody add and expand to that instead of like, oh,
Speaker 2: I need somebody. I need this manager to make my
Speaker 2: career happen. I need this partner to make my love happen,
Speaker 2: to make me lovable that I think will run its course. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's not that's not good for longevity inside out versus Yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2: I love you so much.
Speaker 3: I love you too.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having.
Speaker 3: Oh I have to tell people to watch my movie. Oh,
Speaker 3: please tell them I made a movie. Actually, finally enough.
Speaker 1: One of the last times I saw you, we had
Speaker 1: lunch at that restaurant in West Hollywood, and this was
Speaker 1: like four years ago.
Speaker 3: I had just.
Speaker 1: Come back from filming it. It's called Not an Artist.
Speaker 1: It's it's on Amazon. It's great cast directors Alexei Pappis
Speaker 1: and Jeremy Teischer and Orange distributed by Utopia, Yest, great great,
Speaker 1: Roslyn Shackleypatrick compan Now that I'm saying the names, I
Speaker 1: feel like I have to say everyone.
Speaker 2: You're good Gata. So that's a great cast.
Speaker 3: Go see it.
Speaker 1: Not an Artist. It's available wherever you connect to the internet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for having me, thank you for
Speaker 1: letting me plug. Of course, well you know we're hose here,
Speaker 1: but hose with heart. So before we get out of here,
Speaker 1: let me speak to yours. Belinda absolutely did it.
Speaker 2: I don't know why we were going back and forth
Speaker 2: for we went a little back and forth a little
Speaker 2: too long, because Belinda clearly did it. All the sides
Speaker 2: point to her, and yeah, I'm just I know Clark
Speaker 2: is now I think Clark is in Paris at this point,
Speaker 2: but we can all agree, right, Belinda did it perfect. Also,
Speaker 2: respect aside, I love that, and I just want to
Speaker 2: repeat that. Obviously, I love respecting anyone, but I want
Speaker 2: to repeat because I know that the sire community gets
Speaker 2: ragged on, especially by those of us in the gay
Speaker 2: male community. And you got to respect to side because lesbians, no,
Speaker 2: we talked about quirt folks, that we're talking about energetic sex.
Speaker 2: What we've talked about on here. You know, we had
Speaker 2: that conversation with Liz Goldwyn last week. You know, sex
Speaker 2: is about energy, it's not about penetration. And I think
Speaker 2: that side being a side or side sex if you will,
Speaker 2: is all about leaning into that. And I promise you
Speaker 2: for those of you who are who might have unintentionally
Speaker 2: knocked being with sides or you know, maybe unintentionally puts
Speaker 2: your nose up at it, some of the most transformative sex,
Speaker 2: some of the best fucking sex you will have, is
Speaker 2: with the side. Because sex is not about penetration. I'm
Speaker 2: telling you, I'm telling you toes curl, leg twitch and
Speaker 2: pussy pop like find you a delicious side to be
Speaker 2: with and and expand your sex box if you will.
Speaker 2: This is the PSA. Stop asking people why they're saying
Speaker 2: goal that's a crazy fucking question. For some reason, we
Speaker 2: all feel it's a culture and we feel the audacity
Speaker 2: the permission to ask people why they're single, especially after
Speaker 2: a certain age, Like what that is not a loving
Speaker 2: or compassionate question. It's also not I don't know, a
Speaker 2: real question. If somebody is single, they might be single
Speaker 2: by choice, they might also be looking, and they don't
Speaker 2: need you in your partnership to be like why are
Speaker 2: you single? That's I just obviously there's more to say
Speaker 2: about this, but that particular question I want to highlight.
Speaker 2: There's so much more to a person than who they
Speaker 2: are dating or married to or in partnership with. That
Speaker 2: is part of their life, but it's not their whole life,
Speaker 2: and shouldn't be their whole life. And so you know,
Speaker 2: if you know somebody is single, if they want to
Speaker 2: talk about their love life with you, let them. But
Speaker 2: you don't need to be asking that tone. I'm just like,
Speaker 2: why are you single? It's a crazy fucking question. Also,
Speaker 2: just a reminder whether if you're relationship or you're pursuing
Speaker 2: a relationship, that you are not completed by that relationship,
Speaker 2: that that relationship is part of you. That relationships, whether
Speaker 2: they're romantic, platonic, familial. I hope that there are ones
Speaker 2: that expand you, that are a mirror to what you
Speaker 2: are already pursuing, you know, and if you are somebody
Speaker 2: who's single that is pursuing, you know, partnership. Do not
Speaker 2: underestimate working on yourself. I'm not saying work on yourself
Speaker 2: until you're healed and then you're in a relationship, Like
Speaker 2: no one walks into a relationship one one. As long
Speaker 2: as you're alive, You're never gonna be fully healed. I
Speaker 2: just have to That might be controversial to say, but
Speaker 2: you're not. You're not going to leave this bitch fully healed, Okay,
Speaker 2: So so put that away. There's always gonna be something
Speaker 2: if you're if you are really doing your intentional, internal
Speaker 2: reflective work, there's always gonna be something that's gonna come
Speaker 2: up and something to work on. You will be better
Speaker 2: off than you were if you are working on healing
Speaker 2: those wounds, of course, because you know, we don't want
Speaker 2: these past traumas and wounds to bleed on new relationships.
Speaker 2: But this idea that you were going to heal yourself
Speaker 2: and then enter into relationship is also a toxic thing
Speaker 2: because when you're in relationship with somebody, other things are
Speaker 2: going to be brought up. Right, There are trigger points
Speaker 2: that are going to be hit when you're living with
Speaker 2: somebody that you wouldn't you have hit if you weren't
Speaker 2: living with somebody. Trigger points that are going to get
Speaker 2: hit when you are ten years in a relationship with someone,
Speaker 2: twenty years in relationship with someone that is not going
Speaker 2: to happen after a year, and so there are things
Speaker 2: that you're going to be that are gonna be brought
Speaker 2: up to heal always. So it's not about that. I
Speaker 2: think what's most important is what is your intention inside
Speaker 2: of wanting to be in a relationship, and if it
Speaker 2: is for completion or so that you can feel like
Speaker 2: you are, you know, a whole person, you feel as
Speaker 2: cool as the other people in relationships. That might not
Speaker 2: be the right reason. I don't want to put a
Speaker 2: right or wrong on it. That might not be the
Speaker 2: best reason, the reason that will fill your cup up
Speaker 2: the most, because then there's always like a lack, because
Speaker 2: then you're moving around the world as though you are
Speaker 2: lacking something where you are and as we always say,
Speaker 2: you are enough as you are. So I think thinking
Speaker 2: about relationships as an expansion of who you are instead
Speaker 2: of a completion is will garner the results that you
Speaker 2: want for a longer lasting relationship because I think sometimes
Speaker 2: when people are pursuing and you know, you tell me
Speaker 2: if I'm wrong, when people are pursuing relationship for completion,
Speaker 2: that's where you know you're in that relationship thinking it's
Speaker 2: completing you, and then something happens and you wake up
Speaker 2: and you're like, oh wow, I'm not completed by this,
Speaker 2: and now you're looking for something else to complete you,
Speaker 2: as opposed to letting that partner be someone who expands,
Speaker 2: who expands you, and who expands with you, and then
Speaker 2: there's kind of there's no edge. There's no edge, right like,
Speaker 2: you can just keep flowing and going. It doesn't mean
Speaker 2: the relationship will last forever, because what the fuck is forever?
Speaker 2: Nothing will last forever. Controversial hetake, But I think that
Speaker 2: you will have a more solid foundation to weather the
Speaker 2: storms of of what it means to be in a
Speaker 2: relationship because relationships are work. Beautiful work, expansive work, but
Speaker 2: it still is work. And I think, and maybe I'm
Speaker 2: gonna say this for myself, but you know, obviously can
Speaker 2: apply to use well. Culturally, there is the movie always
Speaker 2: ends when they get together, right like, or the movie
Speaker 2: ends when they're about to break or begins when they
Speaker 2: break up. But like no one, we don't really discuss
Speaker 2: the in between, the ups and downs, the roller coaster
Speaker 2: in between, the times where there's real conflict, the times
Speaker 2: where you take do the work to mitigate that conflict,
Speaker 2: to absolve or dissolve, absolve one of those words, get
Speaker 2: rid of that conflict. We don't really talk about the
Speaker 2: gray space in the relationship where it's not always a
Speaker 2: joyous ten and it's also not a zero, but there's
Speaker 2: that area where it's a five and y'all are just
Speaker 2: like working together and building together and it's hard and
Speaker 2: it's stuff and it's and it's beautiful, but also not
Speaker 2: as interesting as you know the first month you were together.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I think that just just waking up
Speaker 2: from the fantasy of what a relationship is and knowing that, like,
Speaker 2: it is something that is worth working for, but there's
Speaker 2: work and there are more questions to ask besides just
Speaker 2: like you know, do I want to fuck this person?
Speaker 2: Or do I want to be married? Like they're they're like,
Speaker 2: because what is the marriage? All the focus is on
Speaker 2: the wedding, right we we I mean, baby, When Matthew
Speaker 2: and I were considering having a wedding. I think that
Speaker 2: the chairs alone, we were priced at like five K
Speaker 2: and I was like.
Speaker 5: I still alone, I'm not spending five thousand dollars. Well
Speaker 5: some fucking chairs, I just said. We went to the courthouse,
Speaker 5: which was lovely and I highly recommend going to a courthouse.
Speaker 5: We went to the one in Santa Barbara.
Speaker 2: But you know, I was like, we get lost in
Speaker 2: the fluff of the fantasy. There there are relationships people
Speaker 2: going into debt for the wedding and having no consideration
Speaker 2: about like, well, how does it set you up for
Speaker 2: the marriage? Anyways, Now I'm going on a different tangent,
Speaker 2: but you und to see what I'm saying. Sometimes I
Speaker 2: said this, sometimes we don't know the elements of our life.
Speaker 2: We look for someone to come in and tell us
Speaker 2: what it is. So this is just continuing on with
Speaker 2: this idea of people, don't don't look for somebody to
Speaker 2: complete you know who you are, get curious about who
Speaker 2: you are, advocate for who you are, and then understand
Speaker 2: what it is that you're trying to call in to
Speaker 2: your life. And that can be romantically, that can be platonically.
Speaker 2: But I think the more you spend time learning about
Speaker 2: you which you should always be doing, whether in relationship
Speaker 2: or not. But the more you spend time learning about you,
Speaker 2: what makes you happy, what upsets you, what you crave,
Speaker 2: what you can do away with? What are your your
Speaker 2: weak points? What are your strong points? What do you
Speaker 2: trip over? What do you build? The more you can
Speaker 2: know about you instead of relying on somebody else to
Speaker 2: tell you who you are. I think the the the
Speaker 2: better shot you have at building something beautiful with someone again,
Speaker 2: whether that is romantic or platonic or you know business.
Speaker 2: The more that you know you You don't have to
Speaker 2: know everything, you don't have to know anything, But the
Speaker 2: more you can know, the more you the the the
Speaker 2: clearer the path will be. I think. Yeah. Also, Blinda
Speaker 2: did it? That's Brianna and Blinda did it. I love
Speaker 2: you all so much. You can find me on Instagram
Speaker 2: as well at Brandon Kyle Goodman. You can find our
Speaker 2: podcast at tell Me Something mess and you can join
Speaker 2: our community on the Messy Monday's substack. When you subscribe,
Speaker 2: you'll get weekly posts, recommendations on sex and self and
Speaker 2: so much more. Also, I want to hear from you,
Speaker 2: so send your topic ideas, your messy stories, your submissions
Speaker 2: your game ideas to tell Me Something Messy at gmail
Speaker 2: dot com. You can also call us at six six
Speaker 2: nine sixty nine Messy. That is six six nine six
Speaker 2: ninety six three seven seven nine. Rate, review and share
Speaker 2: this podcast with all your HOE and aspiring HOE friends.
Speaker 2: Really really helps the show out.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 2: Until next time, ask about the politics of that dick
Speaker 2: before you make it spit, make sure they eat the
Speaker 2: kitty before they beat the kitty, before fuckation or succation communication.
Speaker 2: And in case you haven't heard it yet, today you
Speaker 2: are so deeply loved. I love you, Hi, Thank you
Speaker 2: so much for listening to tell Me Something Messy. If
Speaker 2: you all enjoy the sh send the episode to someone
Speaker 2: else who might like it. Tell Me Something Messy was
Speaker 2: executive produced by Ali Perry, Gabrielle Collins, and Yours Truly.
Speaker 2: Our producer and editor is Vince Dejohnny. For more podcasts
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