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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week, insight from the reporters and

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Speaker 1: editors that bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus

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Speaker 1: global business, finance and tech news as it happens. Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business Week with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: It is Bloomberg Business Week. Some news in the world

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Speaker 2: of retail today Carol Macy's issuing a downbeat outlook for

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Speaker 2: sales in the current quarter. It was a sign that

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Speaker 2: executives might have been too optimistic about their expectations for

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Speaker 2: the holiday shopping season. Abercrombie and Fitch announced better than

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Speaker 2: expected sales for the holidays, but at share price tumbled

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Speaker 2: this after its sales growth target fell short of some

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Speaker 2: analyst expectations. They closed out the day lower by more

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Speaker 2: than fifteen percent, close to sixteen percent. I do know

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Speaker 2: that Travis has watches this stuff closely, the CEO of

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Speaker 2: Big Commerce. It's an e commerce platform that works with

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Speaker 2: businesses around the world to help them sell you their stuff.

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Speaker 2: Companies such as Yetti Cycles, Johnny Walker, Uplift Desk are

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Speaker 2: among Big Commerces customers. It's publicly traded on the NASDAK

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Speaker 2: it's a small cap market value just shy of five

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Speaker 2: hundred million dollars. Travis joins us here in the Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: Interactive Brokers studio. Travis, good to see you doing some

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Speaker 2: research on this, and you probably hate this comparison, but

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Speaker 2: it's the world we know. I'm looking at the website,

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Speaker 2: I'm understanding your business. Are you competitor Shopify?

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Speaker 3: Of course, yeah, I certainly have come out of that

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Speaker 3: ecosystem as well. I think our approach philosophically is different.

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Speaker 3: So composibility is at the core of what we're doing,

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Speaker 3: and if you want to draw an analogy, it's more

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Speaker 3: open versus closed. I think our perspective on this is

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Speaker 3: we believe more disruption and innovation will come by way

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Speaker 3: of third party ISVs and software providers, and as a result,

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Speaker 3: our focus is really about the ingestion of those capabilities

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Speaker 3: now and in the future, as opposed to building them

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Speaker 3: innately into the platform themselves.

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Speaker 4: Would you say they are the biggest competitor out there?

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Speaker 3: It depends on the market, certainly for traditional D two

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Speaker 3: C and certainly digital native vertical brands. Unquestioned. I think

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Speaker 3: if you look at the meaning director direct.

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Speaker 5: To consumer correct go ahead, it's finish your point.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think if you look at different markets, different geographies,

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Speaker 3: you're certainly going to have a different types of competitors,

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Speaker 3: but certainly they're the most outward and vocal about it

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Speaker 3: and certainly the one most obvious to understand.

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Speaker 5: So tell us a company comes to you a retail

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Speaker 5: and tell us what you do for them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think for retailers, brand manufacturers, manufacturers and distributors,

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Speaker 3: we are optimizing revenue for them while driving profitability independent

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Speaker 3: of channel. I think the name of the game now

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Speaker 3: is to go where customers want to interface with you

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Speaker 3: as a brand, regardless of where they may buy your

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Speaker 3: product or service. And I think the key challenges organizational

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Speaker 3: agility at the organizational level to be able to go, experiment,

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Speaker 3: drive value exchange through those different channels with speed agility

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Speaker 3: at scale.

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Speaker 5: So this means potentially building out an e commerce platform,

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Speaker 5: but also then helping them with what back office maybe

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Speaker 5: at actual retail operations, and making it all work together

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Speaker 5: one hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: So whether it's an own channel or a non owned

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Speaker 3: channel that could be sitting brick and mortar with an

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Speaker 3: own brick and mortar retail, it could be non owned marketplace.

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Speaker 3: It could be a social channel or those that made

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Speaker 3: it come in the future.

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about cart abandoned mint because this

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Speaker 2: is an issue for retailers.

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Speaker 4: Yeah time, Yeah, you put all the time. Well, what

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Speaker 4: causes you to do it?

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Speaker 5: Because I'm just not quite sure I really want something?

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Speaker 5: Or I'm thinking about do I really need this? And

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Speaker 5: it's so easy when you're just going through like yeah,

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Speaker 5: and then I'm just like I'm done. So you know

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Speaker 5: when I get those annoying emails like you left something

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Speaker 5: in your car and I'm like, nope, I meant to.

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Speaker 4: You got to return the card, Carrol.

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Speaker 2: What causes me for card abandonment is maybe more lazy

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Speaker 2: than Carol. It's the payment part. And one thing that

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Speaker 2: I love seeing when.

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Speaker 4: I'm checking out is Apple pay right there.

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Speaker 2: Of course, all I have to do is put my

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Speaker 2: face in my phone and press the button twice.

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Speaker 4: It's bought.

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Speaker 2: I don't have to pull out my credit card, enter

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Speaker 2: the info, put in my eyes, wait to your.

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Speaker 5: Two little ones can do.

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Speaker 2: That they're allowed to do. No, that's not going to

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Speaker 2: be good. What's the what's the check thought process? How

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Speaker 2: do you make sure it's standardized? So it's so easy

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Speaker 2: to part with your money.

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Speaker 3: Well, to exactly your point, I mean, we take an

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Speaker 3: agnostic approach to check out, so as far as ingestion

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Speaker 3: of payment providers, whether that's Apple pay or PayPal or

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Speaker 3: Stripe or whomever, obviously whatever fits the best use cases

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Speaker 3: for a particular brand and size and business logic. But yes,

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Speaker 3: it's to remove friction. It's to make that decision very quick,

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Speaker 3: very easy, very seamless, so less steps.

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Speaker 4: Along the PROCEMCE.

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Speaker 2: Do you have your your own equivalent of shop pay, Like,

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Speaker 2: if I'm buying something I don't even know if it's

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Speaker 2: a Shopify powered site, I put in my phone number,

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Speaker 2: they send me a text message boom.

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Speaker 4: My information is already there. I don't need a password

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Speaker 4: or anything. I got my stuff.

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Speaker 3: We do that today. PayPal just lost fast Lane launched

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Speaker 3: fast Lane, which is an alternative that with a much

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Speaker 3: deeper install basis. Certainly, if you're anonymous coming to a

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Speaker 3: site and you begin to check out and you're not

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Speaker 3: logged in, the fact that they have your account information

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Speaker 3: will prepopulate that and again remove friction and make it

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Speaker 3: more accelerated.

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Speaker 6: You don't have a native one for your company Historically,

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Speaker 6: we've not gone to mart with native We've certainly talked

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Speaker 6: about it, we've considered it that maybe something we explore

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Speaker 6: in the future, but the business model for us has

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Speaker 6: not been We are not a bank.

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Speaker 3: We have not monetized and commercialized a business model based

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Speaker 3: on a payment capacity. We've believed in very much, you know,

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Speaker 3: and ingesting that agnostically.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's so funny that you say that, Tim,

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Speaker 5: that I do. I agree that, Like, you know, it's

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Speaker 5: just sometimes been its Apple Page's just so easy. But

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Speaker 5: sometimes with like shop pay and like the information comes

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Speaker 5: up and I'm like, oh, yeah, somebody else has all

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Speaker 5: my information, and like sometimes that freaks me out. How

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Speaker 5: do you like continue to think about security of shoppers information?

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Speaker 3: I think securities front and center obviously, and I think

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Speaker 3: that the more personalized we get, it's kind of threading

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Speaker 3: the needle. You want to serve up a very relevant,

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Speaker 3: personalized experience, but not so much where it feels intrusive,

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Speaker 3: where people are hesitant to obviously share information, because the

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Speaker 3: more information they share, the more relevant immersive experience we

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Speaker 3: can kind of deliver to them at scale. And so

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Speaker 3: it is a fine balance for brands obviously wanting to

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Speaker 3: capture consumer informational leverage it in a way that would

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Speaker 3: be you know, viable and meaningful and driving efficacy, but

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Speaker 3: not so much so it feels intrusive.

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Speaker 5: You are shopping platforms, so you see, right, you see

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Speaker 5: a lot of information, A lot of data goes through

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Speaker 5: like you have access we know or like like I

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Speaker 5: am curious about someone like you? Guys that what it

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Speaker 5: tells us about what's going on with consumers and like

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Speaker 5: the retail environment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we certainly can see consumer behavior as far as

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Speaker 3: what's being added to col I.

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Speaker 5: Wasn't trying to get you to tell me what tim

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Speaker 5: last spot. But anyway, God, it's all good.

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Speaker 3: Yes, of course we're I mean, and there's many companies

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Speaker 3: that have access to these sorts of things that they

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Speaker 3: want us to. Of course, we're going to see behavior

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Speaker 3: of what's being added the car, where people are browsing,

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Speaker 3: how often they're browsing, and what they're clicking on, what

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Speaker 3: they're abandoning, and how that's facilitating abandoned card emails and

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Speaker 3: things like that. And of course we're leveraging those capabilities

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Speaker 3: and serving it back to organizations, and they're also using

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Speaker 3: their own algorithms and analytics and insights internally to get

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Speaker 3: better at what it is that they're doing.

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Speaker 5: Well, what does it tell you about the consumers that

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Speaker 5: you do have that access? Just big broad strokes here.

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Speaker 3: I think consumers most recently become more promotionally oriented. I

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Speaker 3: think a lot of people are abandoning carts because they're

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Speaker 3: testing the waters on could I get a better deal

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Speaker 3: if I wait to.

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Speaker 5: Look at the un copons all the time? Yep, like wherever?

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Speaker 3: And you've seen this trend through the holiday traffic. I

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Speaker 3: think brands that have historically weren't promotional have gotten very promotional.

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Speaker 3: I think you've seen a promotionally oriented economy in many capacities,

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Speaker 3: certainly in traditional segments like fashion and health and beauty

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Speaker 3: and things like that. I think most folks want some

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Speaker 3: semblance of a recurring revenue models or anything that's subscriptively

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Speaker 3: oriented becomes a bit easier to predict and a bit stickier,

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Speaker 3: and those that aren't, again, especially with fast fashion and

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Speaker 3: other industries where they're constantly turning over, it's all about

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Speaker 3: velocity of skew volume. It does tend to be promotional,

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Speaker 3: but it's also eroding margins. And again it's a fine line,

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Speaker 3: especially with potentially looming tariffs. What impact is that going

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Speaker 3: to have on profitability? If those tariffs negatively in fact

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Speaker 3: a supply chain and cost of goods.

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Speaker 2: Do you see the tariffs being implemented, Does that happen?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 3: Is that something that I think that's I think it's

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Speaker 3: been signal letting, you know, lover hate the incoming administration.

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Speaker 3: I think arguably you can judge past behavior that tariffs

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Speaker 3: are a real thing. It's been certainly socialized, and depending

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Speaker 3: on someone's supply chain and how oriented they are and

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Speaker 3: producing things in areas that may be impacted by tariffs,

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Speaker 3: it's certainly going to impact their business.

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Speaker 4: Your customer is getting ready for it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think everyone's getting ready for it, and I

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Speaker 3: think you're seeing people hedge, certainly in industries that would

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Speaker 3: be heavily impacted by manufacturing in China, maybe looking at

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Speaker 3: alternatives in region or maybe bringing things more domestic. Depends

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Speaker 3: on the industry, depends on the margin, but certainly it's

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Speaker 3: it's front and center, all.

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Speaker 2: Right, Travis Hess really cool stuff, Thanks so much for

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Speaker 2: joining us. Congrats on the new job too.

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Speaker 3: Thank you guys.

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Speaker 2: Having CEO of a big commerce joining us here in

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Speaker 2: the bloom we're gonnact to Brokers Studio Well. The forty

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Speaker 2: third annual JP Morgan Healthcare Conference in San Francisco is underway.

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Speaker 2: It brings together healthcare executives and pharmaceutical industry leaders and

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Speaker 2: tech innovators to discuss the latest in the sector. One

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Speaker 2: of those companies is Oxford Nanoport Technologies. It's the one

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Speaker 2: point six billion dollar market cap company that has devices

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Speaker 2: that sequence DNA and RNA to offer real time analysis.

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Speaker 2: We got with us right now. Doctor Gordon Sangarra, the

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Speaker 2: co founder and CEO of Oxford Nanoport Technologies, joins us

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Speaker 2: from the JP Morgan Health Conference. Shares surging today as

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Speaker 2: much as twenty five percent. It's the steepest gain going

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Speaker 2: back to September of twenty twenty one. So you guys

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Speaker 2: had some news out a trading update that analysts certainly

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Speaker 2: found reassuring. We're going to get to that a minute,

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Speaker 2: but let's take a big step back here, because I'm

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Speaker 2: interested in for the lay person understanding exactly what your

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Speaker 2: device does, what your technology does.

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Speaker 7: Sure, I'm afternoon, everybody from sunny San Francisco, warmer than London,

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Speaker 7: so we have a genetic analyzer that is analogous to

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Speaker 7: what happened in the computer industry. So today the incumbents

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Speaker 7: that do genomic analysis are like mainframe computer providers. They're large,

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Speaker 7: complex machines, multimillion dollar in multimillion dollar infrastructures. We are

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Speaker 7: able to provide cheap, small devices, very similar to the

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Speaker 7: change in computing from mainframe to desktop to handheld. Here's

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Speaker 7: a sequencer I brought with me. This is our minion.

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Speaker 2: So look it's like the size of a smartphone for

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Speaker 2: people who are listening.

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Speaker 7: It really is, yes, and that was critically important in

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Speaker 7: distributed sequencing and understanding all the variants during the COVID epidemic.

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Speaker 4: How much is one of these devices?

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Speaker 7: Couple of thousand dollars, so very cheap, very affordable. It's

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Speaker 7: that's orders of magnitude cheaper than an existing centralized machine

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Speaker 7: where you're batching everything to get economies of scale. These

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Speaker 7: things are pay as you go. So it's really the

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Speaker 7: step change in the way that we saw democratization and

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Speaker 7: access of compute. The same for DNA and information. As

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Speaker 7: we know from the last pandemic, distributed access to DNR

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Speaker 7: and information is going to be important to stamp that

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Speaker 7: out quickly.

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Speaker 5: Doctor Sinker. From our understanding the presentation you did, are

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Speaker 5: doing or planning to do at the JP Morgan Healthcare Conference,

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Speaker 5: there's four core end markets for you guys. The biggest

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Speaker 5: one is research. So by enabling researchers and R and

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Speaker 5: d AT, I guess companies at academic universities and so on,

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Speaker 5: and institutions, I guess tell us what that will be

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Speaker 5: used for and what that enables these institutions and companies

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Speaker 5: to do that they might not be able to do

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Speaker 5: today so easily or so cheaply.

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Speaker 7: Absolutely so, if we do it in the context of

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Speaker 7: human genomes, that's three billion letters on what continuous chain

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Speaker 7: for bases GTAC, And for twenty years people have taken

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Speaker 7: that DNA, breaking it down into two hundred base bit

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Speaker 7: of chains, made a copy. So I've gone from full

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Speaker 7: high definition color to black and white, and then you

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Speaker 7: get some interesting insights in biology, but you're really losing

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Speaker 7: a lot. We're able to read the native DNA as

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Speaker 7: it's presented from, for example, a patient sample, which means

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Speaker 7: we can look at that DNA in full high definition

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Speaker 7: in color in a very simple device in real time

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Speaker 7: with affordable, accessible equipment. So those researchers, whether it's a

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Speaker 7: PhD student in academia or you know, big biofarmers, they're

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Speaker 7: able to illuminate what is often referred to as parts

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Speaker 7: of the dark genome, which code for some of the

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Speaker 7: most difficult disorders that we cannot get at today, mental health,

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Speaker 7: neuroad generation, early early onset cancer, Alzheimer's, things like this,

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Speaker 7: And they're now beginning and there are the foothills of

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Speaker 7: that journey to understanding the biology that underpins these diseases

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Speaker 7: that we've not really moved the needle on fifty years.

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Speaker 5: So is this to help not only in treatment of individuals,

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Speaker 5: but also to create better modalities.

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Speaker 7: For treatment, absolutely, both accelerating biomarket discovery by moving to

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Speaker 7: so people we all talk about the genome. So twenty

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Speaker 7: years ago the genome was published, and that's really just

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Speaker 7: looking at single point mutations. There is now a movement

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Speaker 7: to multi omic genomes. What does that mean, Well, we

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Speaker 7: have four bases GTAC. There is actually a fifth base,

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Speaker 7: which is chemical corruption of your c base and that

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Speaker 7: chemical change is methylation, and methylation is the smoking gun

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Speaker 7: in all cancers. And that's been known for twenty years,

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Speaker 7: but this technology really allows you to get comprehensive maps

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Speaker 7: of methylation which are then having a huge impact immediately. So,

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Speaker 7: for example, acute milue leukemia needs treatment immediately. Diagnosis today

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Speaker 7: takes three to four days, maybe a week. By looking

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Speaker 7: at methylation in those patient samples, so this chemical corruption,

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Speaker 7: they can determine the type of leukemia AML in four

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Speaker 7: to six hours and that is game changing in terms

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Speaker 7: of treatment. So rapid insights in acute and critical care

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Speaker 7: is something that this technology allows because it's distributed point

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Speaker 7: of care, it's real time, and it's giving you content

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Speaker 7: that you do not get with existing tech.

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Speaker 2: Who help us underst stand who has the devices versus

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Speaker 2: who doesn't have these devices?

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Speaker 7: I e.

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Speaker 2: What is the market opportunity that you have left at

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Speaker 2: this point? Because if it is indeed something that offers

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Speaker 2: a service at such a lower cost, then is everybody

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Speaker 2: who wanted one do they have one yet?

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Speaker 3: Not yet?

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Speaker 7: It's a great question, and it's about the evolution of

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Speaker 7: a disruptive new technology. We are in the foothills of

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Speaker 7: that journey. So who has them today? These are the

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Speaker 7: sort of forward thinking academic nissons by a farmer companies,

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Speaker 7: particularly you know, the newer waive of synthetic biology, gene editing, bella,

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Speaker 7: gene therapy companies. All of these people are creating momentum

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Speaker 7: around the use cases and just sort of two to

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Speaker 7: three up year outlook, you will see that then moving

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Speaker 7: towards routine nical practice. And that's why, in what is

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Speaker 7: an incredibly tough market, with all our peer groups either

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Speaker 7: posting no growth or negative growth, we have continued to

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Speaker 7: hit our year on year growth twenty three percent and

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Speaker 7: half two to half two thirty four percent because there

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Speaker 7: is that unmet need is being met and at breakneck

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Speaker 7: speed on a weekly basis, we see game changing opportunities.

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Speaker 7: The next phase of turning that into routine clinical workflows

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Speaker 7: is something that will be big for us in twenty

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Speaker 7: five and then twenty six, twenty seven you will start

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Speaker 7: to see that market penetration too much broader routine use.

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Speaker 5: So doctor Sinkara, So I don't know fast forward then

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Speaker 5: is it five years from now, seven years from now?

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Speaker 5: How might this product that you guys have developed, how

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Speaker 5: might it change our worlds? To think about from our audience,

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Speaker 5: a Bloomberg audience, from you know, financial perspective and an

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Speaker 5: investing perspective. You know what opportunities that that potentially could

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Speaker 5: open up as well, or your device could open up

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Speaker 5: as well.

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Speaker 7: Absolutely so in the last three or four years five years,

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Speaker 7: early detection of cancer become a thing liquid biopsy, so

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Speaker 7: where you're looking at short fragments of cancer cells before

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Speaker 7: there's a tumor, and if you can pick that cancer

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Speaker 7: up early, there's a real opportunity that your treatment outcomes

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Speaker 7: can be much, much, incredibly improved. So I m visied

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Speaker 7: your world three four or five years out where if

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Speaker 7: you've had cancer, you're in remission. Instead of going for

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Speaker 7: a six monthly check up, you'll do a monthly blood

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Speaker 7: test and if you see that cancer reoccur, you pick

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Speaker 7: it up immediately and it gets treated. But ultimately, if

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Speaker 7: you come from a high risk grouping, because your whole

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Speaker 7: genome has been sequenced and we know that you'll then

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Speaker 7: be routinely surveyed and distributed, healthcare will become a big thing.

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Speaker 7: But let me take that a step further. I'm Punjabi heritage,

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Speaker 7: so I have a high propensity tocodiovascular disease and I

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Speaker 7: should and probably should be on statins, but it turns

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Speaker 7: out that if you were to eat tomato that are

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Speaker 7: rich in something called beta licopene, you can get the

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Speaker 7: same benefit of a drug statin. Wow, and so I

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Speaker 7: envisited your world where through gene editing, I have a

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Speaker 7: custom diet that would allow me to not have to

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Speaker 7: take a drug but a nutraceutical, in this case a

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Speaker 7: tomato that's been cross spread to have high licopene, which

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Speaker 7: would have the same benefit of the statin. But it's natural.

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Speaker 7: So I think there's just going to be I'm just

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Speaker 7: kind of picturing two bookends of where and how ubiquitous

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Speaker 7: us The ability to be able to do things with

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Speaker 7: genetics and do it at a personalized level will really

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Speaker 7: impact us.

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Speaker 2: Hey, before we let you go, we only have about

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Speaker 2: forty five seconds left, but we have a viewer listener

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Speaker 2: getting in touch and curious about what you think on

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Speaker 2: about GLP ones. Given that over the last couple of years, Uh,

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Speaker 2: this is probably the medical technology that we've talked about

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Speaker 2: the most.

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Speaker 7: It is an interesting one. I'm looking forward to seeing

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Speaker 7: the large cohorts of patients on GLP one being sequenced

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Speaker 7: so we can really get that multiomic view and look

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Speaker 7: at the cause and effect and better understand the mode

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Speaker 7: of action which will be beneficial for everybody.

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Speaker 2: So you don't you see a lot you see learning.

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Speaker 2: We need to learn a lot more about them.

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Speaker 7: I think so we own it's a great start, but

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Speaker 7: there are already people talking about side effects and you know,

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Speaker 7: not being as impactful as it needs to be. And

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Speaker 7: understanding the biology source code of an individual who's taken

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Speaker 7: these medicines is where the future lies. That individualized, personalized

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Speaker 7: approach will be game changing well, and I think we

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Speaker 7: make GLPS more.

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Speaker 5: Efficient, interesting, fascinating conversation. I hope we can get you

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Speaker 5: back real soon, Doctor Gordon Senghera. He's co founder and

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Speaker 5: chief executive officer of Oxford Nanopore Technologies. As we said

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Speaker 5: in the London trade soaring about twenty five percent