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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori

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Speaker 1: with you. Let me tell you about Delphie ellis counselor,

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Speaker 1: well being trainer, mindfulness practitioner who has worked in the

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Speaker 1: therapeutic setting since twenty twenty two. She started her helping

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Speaker 1: career supporting people in grief, mainly those bereaved by murder

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Speaker 1: and suicide. She now works in the community promoting mental health,

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Speaker 1: maintenance and recovery, mindful leadership, and workplace wellness. She has

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Speaker 1: several books out, including Answers in the Dark Delphie Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the program. Hey George, it's great to be with

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Speaker 1: you today, looking forward to this. How did you get

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Speaker 1: involved in dream work? Oh? So, I grew up in

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Speaker 1: a household which was quite unique It's certainly in the UK,

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Speaker 1: where I was wake up in the morning and I'd

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Speaker 1: asked around the breakfast table what seems had had the

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Speaker 1: night before. So really, from a very early a to

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Speaker 1: the child, I had an interest in dreams and I

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Speaker 1: myself have had some really fascinating and wild dreams over

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Speaker 1: the time. And then about twenty years ago, in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and two, I decided to use some of my

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Speaker 1: experience and also trained to become a counselor and worked

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Speaker 1: in this therapeutic environment. So for about twenty years now,

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Speaker 1: I've been working with people professionally, not just talking about

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Speaker 1: their sleep and their dreams, but also the impact of

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Speaker 1: grief and particularly working with those who's been buried. Grief

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Speaker 1: is something else, isn't it. It's a very difficult to

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Speaker 1: comprehend and to handle for a lot of people these days,

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Speaker 1: it is. And I think the pandemic really showed us

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Speaker 1: that grief doesn't just belong to death either, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think the pandemic showed us that grief belongs to

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Speaker 1: anything that matters to us that's no longer there. So

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Speaker 1: it could have been a relationship breakdown, It could be

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Speaker 1: even a child leaving home to go to college. You know.

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Speaker 1: We can experience grief for all kinds of things, but

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Speaker 1: obviously the impact of it when we lose someone we love.

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Speaker 1: It with a death of a loved one, I think

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Speaker 1: it takes its toll. And of course, if we're not

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Speaker 1: dealing with it during the day, it's going to show

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Speaker 1: up either in our lap of sleep, or in the

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Speaker 1: sleep quality of sleep they're having, or it's going to

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Speaker 1: show up in the dreams we have at night. So

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Speaker 1: I think depending on how we're navigating grief during the day,

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Speaker 1: it's going to impact how well we're sleeping at night.

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Speaker 1: Delvie what causes why people can't sleep. So it's a

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Speaker 1: huge problem around the world, I think, as the World

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Speaker 1: Health Organization said that insomnia is now a global problem,

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Speaker 1: something like twenty percent of the world's population suffers with insomnia.

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Speaker 1: And the definition of insomnia is trouble falling asleep or

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Speaker 1: staying asleep, And for some people it will be the

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Speaker 1: everyday things. You know, it's quite normal for us to

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Speaker 1: have periods during our lives when we don't sleep so well,

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Speaker 1: you know, especially if you're excited about something, or if

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Speaker 1: you've got an interview for a job coming up. You know,

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Speaker 1: it makes sense that now and then you're going to

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Speaker 1: have the occasional poor night's sleep. But it becomes a

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Speaker 1: problem when it's just going on and on and on.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things I talk about in Answers

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Speaker 1: in the Dark is that for a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: it's not just what we're doing during the day that

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Speaker 1: can stop us sleeping, But it's how we're managing our

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Speaker 1: mind at night. So you know, we talk often about

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Speaker 1: it's something called sleep hygiene, which is very much to

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Speaker 1: do with the way the habits we have during the

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Speaker 1: day that might impact ours weep at night. So you

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Speaker 1: know how much coffee you drink for examples, so that

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Speaker 1: can be something that stops people getting a good night's sleep.

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Speaker 1: We know that caffeine can have an impact on your

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Speaker 1: sleep qualicy. But the way I describe it in Answers

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Speaker 1: in the Dark in my book is it's not always

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Speaker 1: what you're doing during the day, but what's happening to

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Speaker 1: you during the day that can stop your sleeping. So

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Speaker 1: if you're going through a bereavement, you know if you're

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Speaker 1: and again when I talk about bereavements, I don't just

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Speaker 1: mean the physical death of someone. I mean a relationship breakdown,

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Speaker 1: being made redundn you know the different ways that grief

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Speaker 1: shows up in our lives. If we're not dealing with

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Speaker 1: that during the day, then the move grief will show

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Speaker 1: up for you at night. And so for me, a

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Speaker 1: lot of the problems we have around insomnia are that

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Speaker 1: we're just not managing the things that are happening is

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Speaker 1: during the day, do you find Alphie, if you don't

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Speaker 1: get enough sleep, it please havoc with your dreams? Oh? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: absolutely so. I think one of the things I talk

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Speaker 1: about in Answers in the Dark is that sleep set

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Speaker 1: privation can lead to any number of things. And you'll

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Speaker 1: know yourself, George, if you've ever had a bad night sleep,

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Speaker 1: you'll know the next day you feel irritable. You know,

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Speaker 1: you might feel edgy, you might not be able to concentrate.

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Speaker 1: But also we know that sleep set privation can lead

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Speaker 1: to ironicallyeps like bad dreams and nightmare. So the quality

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Speaker 1: of sleep that we get can also improve the quality

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Speaker 1: of our dreaming. So it stands to reason if we're

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Speaker 1: not sleeping so well, then we may not dreamings dreaming

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Speaker 1: so well either. What is a good length of sleep?

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Speaker 1: Five hours? Eight hours? What? What's is there a number? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So in my book, in Answers in the Dark, one

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Speaker 1: of the things I talk about are these big myths

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Speaker 1: of sleep. And I think a lot of us have

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Speaker 1: bought into this idea that everybody needs eight hours sleep,

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Speaker 1: and the reality is that everybody is different. So certainly

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Speaker 1: younger people, you know, teenagers, they're not being lazy. They

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Speaker 1: genuinely need more sleep because of all the changes that

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Speaker 1: are happening in their body and the way that they're

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Speaker 1: processing life at that time. So you know, babies, for examples,

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Speaker 1: they need a lot more sleep than adults. And certainly

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Speaker 1: as we get a bit older, we might find that

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Speaker 1: we don't need so much sleep. So I think everybody

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Speaker 1: is different. And one of the problems we have we're

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Speaker 1: buying into this idea that we all need eight hours sleep,

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Speaker 1: is that we then get so sick safted on needing

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Speaker 1: eight hours that ironically that thing gets in the way

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Speaker 1: of us setting a six night sleep. So if you

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Speaker 1: wake up in the middle of the night, for example,

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Speaker 1: you might look at the flock and think, oh no,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to get my eight hours. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be so tired tomorrow. And it caused that. Then

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Speaker 1: itself means that your then stressed out. You're upset already,

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Speaker 1: and there's no way your brain is going to authorize

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Speaker 1: sleep if you are stressed out in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the night. So ironically is this idea that we need

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Speaker 1: we all need eight hours sleep? Heavy night is ironically

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Speaker 1: watchings to be keeping some of us away. So one

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Speaker 1: of the things I talk about in my book is

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Speaker 1: is just to teach the myth. You know, the best

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Speaker 1: way to work out how much fat you need is

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Speaker 1: how refreshed you feel the next day. If you wake

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Speaker 1: up feeling refreshed, chances are you've had a decent night sleep.

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Speaker 1: If you wake up feeling sleepy or tired, they could

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Speaker 1: be again number of reasons for that, to do with

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Speaker 1: whether or not you've woken You've set your alarm for

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Speaker 1: right in the middle of seat sleep, for example, some

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Speaker 1: of us do that and not realizing but because we

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Speaker 1: think to ourselves, well, I've got to get up at

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Speaker 1: six in the morning, we actually are alarmed right down

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Speaker 1: in the middle of sleet sleep. So I refer to

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Speaker 1: that in the books to hangover effects. You wake up

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Speaker 1: in the middle of a seat sleep, you wake up

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Speaker 1: when you're alarm those off that you're waking up in

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Speaker 1: the middle of set sleep, so you you just feel awful.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's called the hangover effect because you've got

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Speaker 1: a headache, your mouth is dry, and you don't know

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Speaker 1: what year it is. So it's ironic really that this

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Speaker 1: idea that we all need date hour of sleep is ironically,

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Speaker 1: I think, what's what's causing us not to sleep so well? Darphie,

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Speaker 1: what do you think of the power nap? I am

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Speaker 1: a big fan of power naps. I don't know. Do

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Speaker 1: you have power naps, George, Ah, we do, we do

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Speaker 1: a good yeah. And so one of the one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons I love a power nap is because I think,

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Speaker 1: especially for people at work shifts and I'm not just

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Speaker 1: thinking now of a sort of frontline or blue light personnel,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not just thinking of doctors and nurses and

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Speaker 1: police officers and people like I'm thinking of anybody that

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Speaker 1: works a shift pattern where they may have to work

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Speaker 1: nights in including yourself, and so anyone that works shifts,

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Speaker 1: power naps can be really, really healthy. And again it

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Speaker 1: depends very much on whether it interrupts your sleep when

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Speaker 1: you do go for a lengthy a sleep. But the

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Speaker 1: best time for a power napp is about twenty to

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Speaker 1: thirty minutes. So if you can have a power nap

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Speaker 1: when you start to feel sleepily, if you can have

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Speaker 1: a power nap for about twenty to thirty minutes, often

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Speaker 1: people find that quite energizing, quite refreshing, and the opportunity

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Speaker 1: just to kind of breefeet and recharge. So I'm a

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Speaker 1: big fan of apps. If you have longer then I

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Speaker 1: suggest people that your power nap lasts about an hour

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Speaker 1: and a half or so, because that's the length of

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Speaker 1: your sleep cycle. A sleep cycle last about ninety minutes

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Speaker 1: an at a half or two hours, And if you're

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Speaker 1: going to have a longer power nap, then ideally you

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Speaker 1: want somewhere like twenty thirty minutes or ninety two one

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty minutes. And the reason for that again

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Speaker 1: is if you say, if you go down for a

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Speaker 1: nap in the afternoon and you think, I'm just going

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Speaker 1: to have an hour, I'm just going to have an

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Speaker 1: hour's sleep, there's a chance that you might wake up

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Speaker 1: again in the middle of deep sleep. So you'll wake

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Speaker 1: up again with that hangover effects. So if you've ever

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Speaker 1: set your alarm for an hour you've gone down from

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Speaker 1: naps that I'm just going to have an hour's sleep, ironically,

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Speaker 1: you will will wake up in the middle of deep sleep,

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Speaker 1: and so you will feel worse potentially than you did

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Speaker 1: when you went down for your nap. So you'll wake

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Speaker 1: up with As I said, that's sort of hudasy, feeling

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Speaker 1: that your mouth is dry, you just don't know where

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Speaker 1: you are, and so that's what we call a hangover effects.

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Speaker 1: And so that's one of the reasons why I suggest

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Speaker 1: if you're going to have a power nap, then it's

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Speaker 1: for about twenty to thirty minutes, or it's the length

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Speaker 1: of a full sleep cycle, which is about an hour

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Speaker 1: and a half or few hours. When people say, ash,

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Speaker 1: I'm so exhausted. What is the exhaustion? What gets tired

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Speaker 1: the brain? I think, yeah, I think it's a combination

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Speaker 1: of things. I mean, we know that the mind and

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Speaker 1: body are connected. You know, we know that if the

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Speaker 1: body isn't doing so good, then it can affect the mind.

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Speaker 1: And in the the same way, if the mind isn't

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Speaker 1: so good, it can affect the body. So I think

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Speaker 1: when we feel exhaustion, one of the things I talk

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Speaker 1: about in Answers in the Darkness that sleepiness and tiredness

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Speaker 1: is not necessarily the same. So you can be absolutely shattered.

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Speaker 1: You know, you could be really tired, but you get

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Speaker 1: into bed and you just can't sleep. And you know,

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Speaker 1: again that could need to do with the way your

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Speaker 1: mind is working. It could be the way that your

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Speaker 1: thoughts firal as soon as you get into bed at night.

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Speaker 1: And so, yeah, there is a difference between sleepiness and tiredness.

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Speaker 1: Sleepiness is to do very much with what we call

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Speaker 1: sleep pressure. That's when the conditions are right and you

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Speaker 1: start to feel sleepy. You know, maybe at some point

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Speaker 1: during the evening or depending on how well you're sleeping

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Speaker 1: at night, you made us feel sleep during the day.

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Speaker 1: But hiredness and sleepiness aren't the same. So your body

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Speaker 1: can feel absolutely, you know, just washed out and tired

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Speaker 1: and exhausted, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're sleepy. Of

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Speaker 1: that you're going to be able to get a good

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Speaker 1: night's sleeps. There are kinds of different kinds of dreams, Delphie.

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Speaker 1: There are lucier dreams, precognitive dreams, nightmares. Why are we

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Speaker 1: dreaming so many different ways? And then a lot of

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Speaker 1: times the dreams take on things that happen during your

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Speaker 1: day or your week, or they make up total different stories.

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Speaker 1: Is like a different movie, Yeah, yeah it is. I

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Speaker 1: Mean one of the things I say about dreams is

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Speaker 1: that I describe dreams as a bit like a friend,

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Speaker 1: which to people that are having nightmares, they'll think wether.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're not my friend at the moment. You know,

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Speaker 1: my dreams are not my friends at the moment. But

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Speaker 1: the way the reason I describe them as friends is

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Speaker 1: because they're trying to tell you something, and like some

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Speaker 1: of our friends, because some of our friends are observed,

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Speaker 1: as they can see these things that we necessarily can't.

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes when we're going through a difficult time,

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Speaker 1: especially when we're in the thick of it, we might

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Speaker 1: not always be able to see the wood for the trees.

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Speaker 1: You know, we might not always be able to see

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Speaker 1: the answer to our own problems on a conscious level.

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Speaker 1: But subconsciously, our brain is always working to try and

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Speaker 1: figure it out. Our brain is always trying to work

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Speaker 1: out what's going on. And so the reason I describe

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Speaker 1: dreams is a bit like our friends, is because they're

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Speaker 1: trying to give us that wisdom our problems. We often

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Speaker 1: walk around during the day, but we fall into at night.

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Speaker 1: And that's whether that's at the minute our head hits

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Speaker 1: the pillow and our mind just starts going. As I

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Speaker 1: call it, I refer to it in answers in the darkest,

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Speaker 1: going down the plug hole. You know, our thoughts can

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Speaker 1: be so dark they can take us to dark places.

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Speaker 1: And so this is one of the reasons why I

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Speaker 1: describe our dreams as friends, because they're trying to tell

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Speaker 1: us what the answers are, or they're trying to offer

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Speaker 1: us some insight or some wisdom, or even just acting

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Speaker 1: as night time therapy. Sometimes our dreams, especially nightmares, can

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Speaker 1: be trying to help us work through something really difficult.

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Speaker 1: And it's only when we're asleep at our brain if

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Speaker 1: you like to exter space and the time to do that.

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Speaker 1: But you're right, there are many different types of dreams

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Speaker 1: and different dream experiences. So you mentioned precognitive dreams, which

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Speaker 1: is where some people have described in the history that

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Speaker 1: their dreams have predicted the future. And you know, I've

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Speaker 1: met many people who have told me over the years

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Speaker 1: that they had dreams which came true. It'd be interesting

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Speaker 1: if some of your listeners have ever had that type

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Speaker 1: of dream. And you know, one of the things that

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Speaker 1: I say to people is it's always worth keeping a

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Speaker 1: dream diary, because then you'll start to notice these patterns

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Speaker 1: in your dreams and why you have certain dreams. When

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Speaker 1: you do, we'll take cars with Delphie Ellis next hour

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Speaker 1: by the way, and you can share your dream stories

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Speaker 1: with us. Maybe you've had precognitive dreams, lucid dreams. Lucid

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Speaker 1: dreams are fun because you can basically control the outcome

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Speaker 1: of your dream. That's kind of cool. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: lucid dreaming is one of the ones that I think

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Speaker 1: most people, if they could, they would do it quite often.

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Speaker 1: But again, the thing about Lucy's dreaming is it happened.

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Speaker 1: It tends to happen automatically. It's not always something that

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Speaker 1: we can program. Although there are researchers I mentioned in

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Speaker 1: the book. I mentioned Charlie Morley and how he's done

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Speaker 1: a lot of research on Lucy's dreaming, who's written several

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Speaker 1: books on thee as well, and how you know, we

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Speaker 1: can train ourselves to become aware of the fact that

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Speaker 1: we're dreaming, and that's essentially what Lucy's dreaming is. Lucy's

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Speaker 1: dreaming is aware of the fact that you're dreaming in

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Speaker 1: the dream, and it tends to happen when something is

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Speaker 1: happening in the dreams that you know can't be write,

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Speaker 1: you know it can't be true. So one example is

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Speaker 1: when people dream that they're flying so not and I

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Speaker 1: don't mean flying in an aeropane. I mean, I mean

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Speaker 1: like flying like Superman. So they become aware of the

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Speaker 1: fact that they're flying in the dream and they realize

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Speaker 1: that that can't be right, and so they then become lucies.

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Speaker 1: They become aware of the fact and they may even

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Speaker 1: stay in the gap are I'm dreaming And at that

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Speaker 1: point they're lies a way cup because they've realized they're dreaming,

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Speaker 1: or they'll carry on dreaming. And then, like you say,

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Speaker 1: it gets really cool because they can then control where

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Speaker 1: they fly, and they can you know, they can control

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Speaker 1: elements of the dreams. So yeah, Lucy dreaming definitely is

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Speaker 1: probably one of the really cool dream experiences. Now, of

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Speaker 1: course you have what is called the sleep cycle Repair Kit.

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Speaker 1: What is that? So this was me basically working with

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Speaker 1: people over the last twenty years and talking to people

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Speaker 1: who especially people that were going through a really difficult time.

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Speaker 1: We started to identify what works for them and what didn't.

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Speaker 1: And so one of the things that I as I

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Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, one of the things that I noticed this

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Speaker 1: was definitely things like sleep hygiene matters. So those are

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Speaker 1: the habits you have during the day that can influence

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Speaker 1: how well you sleep at night. So things like drinking

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Speaker 1: too much coffee, exercising too close to bedtime, eating too late,

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Speaker 1: all of these things we know can influence how well

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Speaker 1: you sleep and whether or not you get a decent

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Speaker 1: night's sleep. But also I noticed that it wasn't just

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Speaker 1: for some people. It wasn't that, you know, some people

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Speaker 1: were doing all the right things. They were winding down

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Speaker 1: before bedtime, they were listening to calm and music. They

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Speaker 1: might have use some different things like lavender to help

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Speaker 1: them get a better night's sleep. That can be nature's

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Speaker 1: remedy as long as you're not allergic to it. Lavender

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Speaker 1: can be very healthy for best sleep. But these people,

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Speaker 1: they were doing all of that, and they still couldn't sleep.

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Speaker 1: And so that's when I started to realize that for

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Speaker 1: many people, it's not just what you're doing during the

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Speaker 1: day that stops you sleeping. It's what happened to you

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Speaker 1: during the day or what's happening in your life at

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Speaker 1: the time. And that's what we call situational in from

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Speaker 1: the earth, where a person has stuff going on during

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Speaker 1: the day that they may not be dealing with and

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Speaker 1: so shows up at nighttime. So the sleet Cycle Repair

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Speaker 1: Kit is a kind of a mixture of different tips

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Speaker 1: and techniques that people can try to help them get

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Speaker 1: a better night's sleep, So things like doing a breast activity,

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Speaker 1: you know, doing a different type of breathing activity, or

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Speaker 1: repeating a mantra whilst they're trying to get to sleep.

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Speaker 1: There's a really lovely mantra in the book that I described,

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Speaker 1: which is breathing in, I calm my body, losing out,

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Speaker 1: I calm my mind. It's a really nice one to

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Speaker 1: repeat when they're trying to fit the sleep at night.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, the Sleep Cycle Repair Kit is kind of

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Speaker 1: like all these different tips and techniques for people to try,

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Speaker 1: but it also explains different nighttime experiences that people might have.

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Speaker 1: So again I talk about different experiences that people might

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Speaker 1: have whilst they're asleep or certainly in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the night. They might have these different nighttime experiences, so

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Speaker 1: it goes some way to explaining what that might be

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Speaker 1: about as well. Listen to more Coast to Coast a

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Speaker 1: m every weeknight at one a m. Eastern and go

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Speaker 1: to Coast to Coast am dot com for more