1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M Hello, 4 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 5 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: my name is Nolan. They call me Ben. We're joined 6 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: as always with our super producer Paul Decond. Most importantly, 7 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: you are you, and you are here, and that makes 8 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: this stuff they don't want you to know. We we 9 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: can open with a question today, I guess for the table. 10 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: Have have any of us had relatives involved in the 11 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: Vietnam War. I do not believe I did. Honestly, If 12 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: I do, I am unaware of it. Paul, do you 13 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: have any relatives in that conflict? Also? No three nose. 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: That's interesting, Ben, Yeah, Well, being from the military backgrounds, 15 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: it's yeah, multiple members of my family. And the reason 16 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: we opened this episode today with this question is because 17 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: our episode touches on the Vietnam War. It's not really 18 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: just about the war, it's about something different. The Vietnam 19 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: War is the last conflict in which Uncle Sam conscripted 20 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: actual civilians. So some of us listening to the show 21 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: today may have at some point been drafted, sent to 22 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: a country that you were radically unfamiliar with, and told 23 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: that you were playing a vital part, if a small part, 24 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: a vital part in a greater fight. Uh. We we 25 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: are country intervened in the activities of foreign nations to 26 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: support a larger geopolitical war against communism. Yeah, it was 27 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: that one time we interfered within other countries in working 28 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: at one time. Right. And the thing about modern war 29 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 1: is that it drives technological innovation. There's there's no two 30 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: ways about it, and the Vietnam War was no exception 31 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: to this rule. During this conflict, the US pioneered numerous 32 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: pieces of technology that we now see today in the 33 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: civilian sphere. Some of these innovations were entirely innocuous. They 34 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: were medical breakthroughs, right, And some were really far out 35 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: things that even today sound like crazy science fiction novel 36 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: ideas far out, like surfar far out, yeah, even further 37 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: even further from Shure. Yeah. And weather manipulation is one 38 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: of those things, right, which we talked about, which was 39 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: surprisingly a real thing. I think that baffled all of us. 40 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: There was another innovation in this war which might surprise 41 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 1: some people. It was the widespread use of herbicide as 42 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: a weapon, which which is nuts right, Planes sweat to 43 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: cross the Mekong Delta, dropping weak killer instead of bombs. 44 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: So there were bombs too. There were also bombs, but 45 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: there was a lot of weak killer. And this weak 46 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: killer is known today by the name Agent Orange, and 47 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: decades and decades after it was deployed there in Southeast Asia, 48 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: we as a species are still trying to figure out 49 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 1: exactly how it affected us. But let's start with the 50 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: facts here. They are. What is agent orange? Oh man, 51 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna butcher this pronunciation, but I'm gonna try it 52 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: is something called a defoliant. Defoliant correctly. Yeah, I guess 53 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't as hard as I made it out to be. 54 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: Thanks for the atta boy, though, guys, I appreciate it. Um. 55 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: So yeah, planet killer, like you said, um. And so 56 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: there's a combination of various herbicides. Um. But it was 57 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: most famously used in Vietnam War, when the US dispersed 58 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: it across the entire areas of the country in order 59 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: to remove plant cover. You know those tree lines. They're 60 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: always talking about, Charlie's hiding in the tree line and 61 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: all that. You know, I remember hearing that in movies. 62 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: That's in movies. They wanted to get rid of that. 63 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: I guess so they had um more visibility of the 64 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: potential awaiting enemies. Yeah, there are big problems with naval 65 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: ships where there would be tree lines right along the water, 66 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: and uh, combatants would hide there with various munitions, and 67 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: this was one of the reasons, one of the main 68 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: reasons they wanted to use Asian orange or any of 69 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: the herbicides. Yeah. Yeah, good point met, because that that's 70 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: seen in Apocalypse Now where the boat is going up 71 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: the river. That that kind of stuff really did happen. 72 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: And you make an excellent point about the other herbicides 73 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: because we always hear about agent orange. Agent orange was 74 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 1: called this or sometimes called doctor orange too. Yeah. Yeah, 75 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: it had a whole family, a whole spectrum of colors. 76 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: It was called agent orange due to orange markings on 77 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: the barrels it was shipped in, but there were other 78 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: colors too. There was Agent blue, denoted by the blue marking. 79 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: Still in herbicide a little bit different, But we can 80 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: get into the chemistry of agent orange pretty pretty easily. 81 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: We could do a high level Look, we're not chemist 82 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: do you guys know what they called the Viet Cong Charlie. 83 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: I just looked this up to make sure I wasn't 84 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: accidentally being racist. Please tell us v C. Victor Charlie, 85 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: vietcom Charlie. There you go, innocuous a f. So that's 86 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: really interesting. Really had no idea. Oh no, that's great. 87 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: So let's get into what exactly this stuff is. Agent 88 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: orange is equal parts to chemicals, and these are both herbicides. 89 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: The first one you can just call it T four 90 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: dash D and that's T comma four dash D. That's 91 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: die chloro finoxi acidic acid. And the second one is 92 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: T comma four comma five dash T or T far 93 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: five T. That's trichloro fin oxy acidic acid. Now, so 94 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: it's just too to these ourb sides equal parts mixed 95 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: together you get agent orange. And were these were these 96 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: common beforehand? Yeah? These were pretty common in the United States. 97 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: They were used the the separate chemicals, not agent orange itself, 98 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: the combination of them. But yeah, the separate chemicals were 99 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: common in the United States and during the manufacture of 100 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: which one of these ingredients, it's the T four five T. Okay, 101 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: the trichloral. Yes, So during the manufacture of that, another 102 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: chemical is produced, right, Yes, small amounts of something called 103 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: T C D D. You ready for this. Here's the 104 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: last one. Two three tetrachloro dibenzo dioxin. And it's also 105 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: referred to as dioxin dioxin, and it's formed as a 106 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: by product. It's considered a contamination in its own way. 107 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: It is an unwanted growth, very similar to a weed. 108 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: There you go, a weed within the herbicide. But what 109 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: is it really? So glad you asked? It's crazy, So 110 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: it's what. It's a kind of thing called a persistent 111 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: organic pollutant. There, they're multiple forms of dioxin. When we 112 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: say persistent organic pollutant, the key word there is persistent. 113 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: Once once these things get into something, they tend to stay. 114 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: According to the e p A, dioxins are not made commercially, 115 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: nor are they sold in the US, at least they're 116 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: not supposed to be. There are several hundred different versions 117 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: of this substance we call dioxin, but they generally fall 118 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: under the same three chemical families. Oh no, it's my 119 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: turn now, is okay? Alright? Chlorinated dibenzo p dioxin's chlorinated 120 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: dibenzofurans or c dfs, and some polychlorinated bi Fennel's PCBs, 121 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: which you may have heard a long time ago in 122 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: a previous episode. Oh yeah, you've almost certainly heard of 123 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: PCBs before. That's one of those common chemical compounds. You 124 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: actually hear PCBs, Like this is without PCBs, we stopped 125 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: using those, do health concerns, right exactly? A little bit 126 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: of foreshadow is that the stuff that's and not thinking 127 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: of b p A Yeah, different, but only the crinkly ones. Yeah, yeah, 128 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,719 Speaker 1: I remember peek behind the curtain, folks. I remember a 129 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: few years ago, Matt, you first told me about b 130 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: p A S. I was I was microwaving something in 131 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: a plastic uh, like a plastic container, a TopWare kind 132 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: of thing. Yeah, I mean it was one that you 133 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 1: generally put in a microwave. And then when I was 134 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: convinced that I was going to I was convinced it 135 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: was all over for me. It's like, here comes the cancer. 136 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: I mean, we're all full of it already. There's nothing 137 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: you can do. We exist in Yeah, we're riddled with it. 138 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,359 Speaker 1: In the nineteen seventies, we didn't have the same awareness 139 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 1: of what the consequences of exposure to these sorts of 140 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: chemicals could be. And dioxyd in in particular, which on 141 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: its own looks like these little white crystalline needles, is 142 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: chemically speaking a Samuel L. Jackson level bad. I mean, 143 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 1: we're a family show. What should I say, guys Um 144 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: Murfer nailed it. Yes, it's a bad Murfer. It can 145 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: because the accident can cause cancer, reproductive problems, developmental disorders. 146 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: It can also reek just train wrecked levels of damage 147 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: on hormones and the immune system. Agent Orange was meant 148 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: to be what's called a rainbow defoliant, meaning that it 149 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: didn't specifically target one type of plant, it targeted every everything. Yes, 150 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: and this means that as a weapon of war, Agent 151 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 1: Orange was from the get go, from deployment, meant to 152 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: do more than I think the American public believed. We 153 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: were told it was to increase visibility, as as you said, Noel, 154 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: and to remove undergrowth in which the enemy forces could hide. 155 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: But it's behind the curtain use which was sort of 156 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: an open secret that unfortunately a lot of voters did 157 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: not know at the time. It's behind the curtain use 158 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: was much more sinister. It was meant to destroy crops, 159 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: depriving enemy combatants and civilians of food. And a lot 160 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: of these people at that time in the rural parts 161 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: of the country are subsistence farmers. It was a tactic 162 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: to starve everybody out. And we we started tracing the 163 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: evolution of agent orange from its orangein point I am 164 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: sorry to to its deployment. The US exhibited interest in 165 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: this concept weaponized herbicides way way before the Vietnam War. 166 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: In ninety three, the Army contacted the University of Chicago 167 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: and asked them for some data on the potential of 168 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: herbicides too. It's important. This was their original question to 169 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: the University of Chicago. Specifically, they asked for data to 170 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 1: prove whether or not herbicides could destroy enemy crops. That 171 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: less sinister idea about removing forest cover that comes later, Yeah, 172 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: I mean it is. It's interesting how there was such 173 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: a problem with forest cover during the Vietnam conflict that 174 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: it also made sense to use this products that destroyed crops. 175 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: And I wonder if that was just uh, I was 176 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,199 Speaker 1: getting knock. I was gonna say, happy accident is not 177 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: a happy accident, but just they just happened to coincide 178 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: with what they needed. UM, but that's really messed up. 179 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: So that's nineteen Yeah, and they they continued. They moved 180 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 1: pretty quickly on the concept. They first tested the idea 181 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: of weaponized herbicides in nineteen forty four in Orlando, Florida. 182 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 1: I have to say, this idea of herbicidal warfare is 183 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: fascinating to me and not something I would typically think 184 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: of as weaponized herbicides. Yeah, it's strange, isn't it. And 185 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: they tested at first, they were just seeing what sort 186 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: of poisonous stuff could do the job, So they tested 187 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: ammonium thiosnate, zinc chloride, sodium nitrate, sodium arsenate, and sodium fluoride, 188 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: which I we know, fellow conspiracy realists will already make 189 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: some people's ears perk cup. But the tipping point doesn't 190 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: occur until nineteen during something called Projects sphinx So. Project 191 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: sphinx UM was conducted at Fort Knox. That Fort Knox 192 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: and the United States government investigated the use of chemical 193 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: agents in making vegetation more flammable. UM. It seems like 194 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: it would be flammable enough as it is, but before 195 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 1: a flame attack and agent orange and napalm napalms A 196 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: scary one UM are the descendants of this particular research. 197 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: So the US continued to develop and test Agent orange 198 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: from forty six to fifty one UM domestically. Yeah. And 199 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: the first use of this, this crazy cock and maybe 200 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: the idea of urbicidal warfare comes from Britain. In the 201 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties. They cleared areas of the jungle in Malaysia 202 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: of vegetation if they were close to roadways. They wanted 203 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: to prevent ambushes by well, they called them communist guerrillas. 204 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: Other people called them freedom fighters, and many of the 205 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: people there just saw themselves as locals. Yeah, or your 206 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: family in frience. Um. Also, the Brits didn't call that 207 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: a war. It's kind of familiar for you know, for 208 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: a long time it was the Vietnam conflict. Or I 209 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: guess that's kind of changed to the Vietnam conflict. Uh, 210 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: it's been the Vietnam War, but it was never declared 211 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: a war by Congress. True true facts. In an internal 212 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: memo from nineteen fifty two, the agricultural giant Monsanto informed 213 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: the U. S Army Chemical Cores that the herbicide that 214 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: you have mentioned earlier, Matt t the tri one, the 215 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: tri one, the trichloral one was contaminated with dioxin during 216 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: the production process. So nineteen fifty two they knew, they knew, 217 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: and accidental overheating of the reaction mixture caused this product, 218 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: this herbicide to condense into this dioxin di oxen, just 219 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: for a frame of reference, is a hundred and fifty 220 00:14:55,480 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: thousand times more toxic than arsenic, the poison arsenic, the 221 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: very famous poison arsnick Ah, jeez ye, sorry, I'm just 222 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: making big googly eyes right now that you can't hear 223 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: because this is an audio show. But I just that 224 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: is an insane number to be more toxic than the 225 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: thing that we already know is being quite bloody toxic. Yeah, 226 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: more toxic than possibly the most famous poison in history. 227 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: The US began using your besides in what nineteen sixty 228 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: one and something that was originally named Operation Hades but 229 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: got changed to a less sinister sounding name, Operation ranch Hand. 230 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: That sounds like some a good old corn fat operation. There, boys, 231 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: I'm just a ranch hand, you know. I get the 232 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: horses all, you know, get them back around. That's pretty 233 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: much what I do take care of. Do you hit 234 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: them up, hitch up horses to the to the post, 235 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: get them to their feeding bags. You know that seems 236 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: a lot more innocuous than Operation Hell on Earth. And 237 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: also I drop a ton of stuff on the Vietcong. 238 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: I'm sorry dramatic reenact, but I think the soul of 239 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:13,359 Speaker 1: it is completely accurate. Over twenty million gallons of these herbicides, 240 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: these various agents were sprayed across Vietnam but also across 241 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: Cambodia and Laos, and for most of the war, Operation 242 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: Ranch Hand was based at the Beingha air Base, which 243 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: I am surely mispronouncing. Apologies to all Vietnamese speakers. They 244 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: were using this air base because they wanted to mainly 245 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: conduct spraying operations across the Mekong Delta because, as we 246 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: have mentioned earlier, patrol boats were vulnerable to attacks from 247 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: the undergrowth, and the primary aircraft used for this were 248 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: C one, two threes. That will be important later because 249 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: we'll have to ask ourselves what happened to those planes. Yeah, 250 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: one of their just little side note there is that 251 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: Asian orange was also common or these these agents were 252 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: common to be sprayed around military bases and outposts. And 253 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: you'll see images online if you search for it of 254 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: soldiers in these trucks that are just spraying. You can 255 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: see them just spraying these huge swaths of this. It 256 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: looks like it looks orange, but I think some of 257 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 1: them have maybe been doctored a little bit. But it's 258 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: just it's a chemical agent. They're spraying everywhere around the bases, sure, 259 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: just like you know, just like an exterminator or someone 260 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: applying pesticide with those little buckets and those spray nozzles, 261 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: you guys remember those. It's not a much much much 262 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: larger scale, exactly. And so here we are with Vietnam 263 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: and with the use of this herbicide, not just on 264 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 1: enemy vegetation, but on vegetation, as you said, surrounding military 265 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: bases outpost. But as we mentioned before, agent Orange is 266 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: not the only crayon in the box. We'll tell you 267 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: a little bit more or about the other agents in 268 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: the field after a word from our sponsor, and we're back. 269 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: So we gotta orange in one corner. Let's talk about 270 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: the rest of the group that we've got here. The 271 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: the agent Orange, that name is just a code name 272 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: referring to the color of the band that's around this 273 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: giant fifty five gallon drum that contained the chemical and 274 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 1: when it was shipped over to allow Us or Vietnam 275 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: or Kimbodi or whatever, they were in these giant drums, 276 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: and they would sit somewhere and then until they get 277 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: loaded up onto whatever plane they're going to be on 278 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: or truck. And uh. The other code names were agent, white, blue, purple, pink, 279 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: and green. Sounded more and more like reservoir dogs. That's 280 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: exactly what it sounds like to me. Does anybody listening 281 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: out there? Do you know if that was a reference 282 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 1: the reservoir dogs was actually a reference to these agents, 283 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: That would be fascinating to know because it sounds very similar. 284 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: I don't know what we're missing here, which color we're missing, 285 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: but anyway, we'll have to ask Chuck. He just did 286 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: an episode with Broken Lizard about reservoir dogs. Chuck Charles W. 287 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: Bryant from Stuff You Should Know, who is also the 288 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: host of movie Crush, where you can hear our compatriot 289 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: nool popping in. That's right, I do do the occasional 290 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: pop in. Um Internet says, now all right, Internet, thanks 291 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: a lot. We'll have to text Quintin and ask him. 292 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: So from nineteen six two to sixty five, they actually 293 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: were not using agent orange, is that correct? Correct? They 294 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: started out with purple, pink, and green. Here's the deal, 295 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: the problem. All three of these were contaminated with what 296 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: are they called T C, D D S or dioxin? Right, 297 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: and these were supplied by Mansanto and the dal Chemical Company. 298 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,719 Speaker 1: And let's think a second to talk about Agent purple. 299 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: Agent purple was sprayed just indiscriminately across the area. One 300 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: point nine million liters were sprayed between that period we 301 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: mentioned sixty two to sixty five. Unfortunately, was later determined 302 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: that agent purple had the highest concentration of dioxin in 303 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: comparison to these other uh, these other mixtures pink and green. Wow, 304 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: so really this episode should be called Agent Purple. Well, 305 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: that's not true because agent orange was sprayed a whole 306 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: lot more. That's the thing. From sixty five to seventy 307 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: they switched to agents orange, white and blue, and then 308 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: in what was it, they stopped using agent orange. Yes, 309 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: and we'll get into why they stopped using agian orange 310 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 1: a little bit later in the show. But that's that's 311 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: around the time, alright. Still, the facts are the facts, 312 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: and the facts do not have opinions. Chemicals contaminated with 313 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: this substance. Docks and were used in the area from 314 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: sixty two to and they sprayed a bunch of it everywhere, right, Yeah, 315 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: the estimates and these might have changed by now of 316 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: the research we got from this is several years old. 317 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: But the estimated amount of dioxin sprayed over Vietnam and 318 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: all of that time was around three hundred and sixty 319 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: eight pounds of it. Now, I know that sounds like 320 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: a kind of low number, three hundred and sixty eight 321 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: pounds overall if you're talking about these large land masses 322 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: and everything. But when you realize that agent orange, the 323 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: the dioxin contamination within it was only point zero five 324 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: to fifty parts per million, that's pretty much the range 325 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: that you got in parts per million, and they spread 326 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: twenty million gallons it. It's kind of crazy. Twenty million 327 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: gallons of herbicide doesn't necessarily mean agent orange. I see 328 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,959 Speaker 1: what you're saying. It's important. But but even if we say, okay, 329 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: it's not like they were spraying pure dioxin, right, The 330 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: point is that overall, over four million soldiers had some 331 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: kind of contact with this substance, specifically with Adrian Orange, 332 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: and this number is only for the U. S. Side. 333 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: When we were doing research on this, one thing that 334 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: we found to be strange was that a lot of 335 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: the emphasis on exposure to this only follow the U. S. Side. 336 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 1: They don't follow the millions of civilians who are affected 337 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: by this spray. And we're certain almost certainly not informed 338 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: of it before or after. When you think about if 339 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: they're targeting crops and that land that would eventually in 340 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: the future be used to plant crops again that now 341 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: has this persistent chemical in the soil, it's no good. 342 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: And the government knew, at least the US knew by 343 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: six three, the U. S. Army and President Kennedy, the 344 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: Kenned damn the station knew this stuff was capable of 345 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: screwing up humans just as much as plants. The Dal 346 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: Chemical Company wrote to the Secretary of Defense at the 347 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: time and assured him that's Robert Mcamara assured him that 348 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: to four or five T, that's the tri chloral and 349 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: that's the one that's the one was safe for use. 350 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: So don't worry about this data we assure you our 351 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: government contract stands. Everything is fine. And then in the 352 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: Department of Defense, UM set up a contract with Kansas 353 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: City based Midwest Research Institute to dig a little deeper 354 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: and give a comprehensive analysis m of extensive or repeated 355 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: uses of herbicides herbicides. Is it a herd age? I 356 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: go with herbicides. Yeah, that's better. I'm not We're not. 357 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: I'm not English. You know, herbsbs and philets. Here's what 358 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: they found, and I will quote if I may, UM, 359 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: the possibility of lethal toxicity to humans is highly unlikely 360 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: and should not be a matter of deep concern. Now 361 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: that quote is there's some ellipses in there, but but 362 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: still that's the main point. Hey, it's cool. It's cool, 363 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: and hence the cover up. It's always a cover up. 364 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: The cover up agins Nowadays, it's no secret that these 365 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: substances are harmful to human beings. People exposed to Agent 366 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: orange or any of those other color coded agents will 367 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,239 Speaker 1: have a higher risk of exhibiting the symptoms we had 368 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, some of the symptoms of exposure. But there 369 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 1: is something else in play. The cover up didn't stop 370 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: in the fifties while they were developing this and in 371 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: the seventies when they were deploying it. The cover up continues. 372 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: Some will say, because there's something else to Agent Orange, 373 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,239 Speaker 1: something that could affect you, yes, specifically you today, if 374 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: you are descended from anyone who is exposed to besides 375 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 1: like agent Orange in the past, Agent Orange, you see, 376 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: has left a legacy. Here's where it gets crazy. This 377 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: substance doesn't just affect the people that actually got exposed 378 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,479 Speaker 1: to it, whether it was in the field that they 379 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: used to grow crops or on the battlefield. It affects 380 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: their descendants as well. Okay, okay, okay, hard pause. Let's 381 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: take a second to think about just how insane that is. 382 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: So that means that if the four of us and 383 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: if you're listening, were in Vietnam during this time, or 384 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: you were exposed to the substance somehow, we might not 385 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 1: exhibit crazy symptoms, but our kids and our grandkids very 386 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: well could, which is insidious, you know. And in June 387 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: and July, Vietnamese newspapers began reporting on a spike in 388 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: birth defects. They specifically cited Saigon birth defects in Saigon, 389 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: and they blamed the deployment of Agent Orange and the 390 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: other members of the color coded poison pantheon. Critics of 391 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: the time say that Saigon was couldn't have been associated 392 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: because Saigon was not directly sprayed. Yeah that's here. Yeah 393 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 1: that that is true. But they failed to consider the 394 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: flood of refugees that moved into the city after their 395 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: crops were destroyed. Yeah, I cannot, I can no longer 396 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: live on this land. I have to go somewhere else. 397 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: Now you're in Psigon, a big city, and now all 398 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: of your descendants are coming down with problems. Oh yeah, 399 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: the consequences of exposure to agent orange. No, no ideological boundary. 400 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: Children of veterans in the Vietnam conflict on the U 401 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: S side that were you know, the veterans that were 402 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: exposed to this stuff. Their kids have a thirty percent 403 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: higher chance of birth defects. And we're we're not talking 404 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 1: you know, we're not talking like a weird mole or something. 405 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: We're talking about things like leukemia, extra limbs, yeah, missing limbs. 406 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: And for decades, the Department of Veterans Affairs, which for 407 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: anyone outside the US, the it's commonly called the v A. Here. Uh, 408 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: that is a government organization which is charged with healthcare, 409 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: psychological care, job assistance, or employment assistance. I guess for 410 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: veterans after they return from a conflict, and it's it's 411 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: a pretty controversial place. There are a lot of concerns 412 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: here in the States about how its affairs are handled, 413 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: how it is helping or neglecting to help veterans after 414 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: they leave military service. If you somehow have not seen 415 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: them yet, you can watch various episodes of The Daily 416 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: Show and John Stewart was helming it, or John Oliver's 417 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: New Show on HBO to really get into the nitty 418 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: gritty of the v A issues. Now, the v A 419 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: has very high quality people working there, many of whom 420 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: are themselves veterans, right and they have been collecting information 421 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: from the veterans for years, even specific questions about birth 422 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: defects for decades. You can look at a N two 423 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 1: form from the v A where they have a question 424 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: that reads reads in the following, is there evidence of 425 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: birth defects among veterans children? The answers are one no, 426 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: two yes conceived after Vietnam service, three yes conceived before 427 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: Vietnam service. For yes both before and after Vietnam service, 428 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: and they don't have any for a conceived while in 429 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: Vietnam service. That is true. That gets you know again, 430 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: that gets to the more myopic, US centric focus of 431 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: the agent orange problem here in the U S. At 432 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: least so in pro PUBLICA and a paper called The 433 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: Virginian Pilot obtained this information from the v A and 434 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: they made the problem public. Originally, government studies concluded that 435 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: while veterans in the war did have a higher chance 436 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: of bearing children with birth defects, herbicide exposure was somehow 437 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: not the cause, like you said earlier at all. Uh, 438 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: don't don't worry nothing. Yeah, if something like that came 439 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: out as public, it would not be good for anybody 440 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: involved except for the victims rights. And the v A 441 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: responded to this analysis. They said it was quote interesting 442 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: and quote a step in the right direction. They added 443 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: that the VA believes the research to understand the relationship 444 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: between exposure and intergenerational transmission of disease, if conducted, should 445 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: be done where scientists with expertise and the relevant fields 446 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: of inquiry can provide leader ship. I'm sorry I fell 447 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: asleep during that. What was huh? It means they said, 448 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: we don't have a department that is capable of studying 449 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: this well, isn't that convenient? They did say they would 450 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: play a supporting role in further investigation. They did. Now 451 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: we need to take one more quick break from our sponsor. 452 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: But when we get back, we're going to talk about 453 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: the full legacy of dioxin and agent orange. And we're back. 454 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: It's still eighteen, which means it has been almost fifty 455 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: years since the weaponized herbicides were sprayed across this region. 456 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: In those intervening years, veterans reported the some of the 457 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: defects that we have mentioned earlier, missing limbs, extra limbs, 458 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: as you said, no life threatening conditions like leukemia, and 459 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: they furthermore said that these conditions did not occur in 460 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: their family. Before. You know, some some diseases or conditions 461 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: can run in certain families, not the case with this stuff. 462 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: And given our species new understanding of epigenetics, the fascinating, 463 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: somewhat disturbing realm of stuff, fairly new field, fairly new 464 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: field too. What is epigenetics, Well, it's the idea that 465 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: again I think we cover this before, and did we 466 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: decide that it was There's there are several studies out 467 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: there about it, but it's not a conclusive thing yet. 468 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: But what we do have this understanding that when let's 469 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: say a mother goes through trauma at some point in 470 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: her life and then gives birth to a baby, that 471 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: trauma can somehow affect the way genes are expressed in 472 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: the baby. That's the that's the idea, right right. It 473 00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: affects what genetic expressions manifest, its genes are switched on 474 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: or off. And we saw some studies about the descendants 475 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: of people who were starved during World War Two. Yeah, 476 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: and how that and it has a measurable effect. There 477 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: is a compelling case, I want to be careful here 478 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: that it has a measurable and significant effect on descendants. 479 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: It appears that agent orange may also be functioning under 480 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: the same rules. The survivors of the war can trace 481 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: dioxin exposure to birth defects in later generations. Again, this 482 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: is sort of controversial. There are researchers on the other 483 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: side of the argument saying that this is overblown, or 484 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: even saying that it is a cynical attempt to grab 485 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: some cash on the part of relatives of veterans or 486 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: veterans themselves. Really, those those are statements. Yeah, those are 487 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: statements that people make. Statement. I don't know, I mean, 488 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: I I personally don't agree. That seems like a very 489 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: roundabout way to try to get federal money. Yeah, I 490 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: think the position of defensive has kind of just been 491 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: the standard for anyone involved with the manufacturer or deployment 492 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: these things. And Vietnam veterans and their families attempted several 493 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: times to take this issue to court, but the cases 494 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: eventually lost momentum. It's like a class action lawsuit at 495 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: one point, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, And arguably the research 496 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: has yet to bear a definitive link, but critics of 497 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: those findings think that there's something else to play. A 498 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,719 Speaker 1: brutal calculation, that's right. The v A already spends billions 499 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: of dollars on veterans um so should it also pay 500 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: for the medical needs of kids bearing the scars of 501 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: this war? That's the question they're asking. I suppose Mike Ryan, 502 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: who's a Vietnam vett whose grandchildren suffer from the effects 503 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: of this exposure. He believes that the government will never 504 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,760 Speaker 1: admit the relationship between Asian orange and these birth defects 505 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 1: because quote, if they do, then America is admitting to 506 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: drafting the unborn. That is I think the most powerful 507 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: line in there. And it's and it's true. I mean, 508 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: you can accuse the guy of waxing poetic if you want, 509 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: but it is accurate. If these people who have no 510 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: role in a war that occurred before they were born 511 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 1: or suffering the consequences of this right on both sides, 512 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: both sides of the Pacific, then aren't they How how 513 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: are they not being drafted? And there is of course, 514 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: of course, there's a very strong argument to make that 515 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: people just didn't know what would happen. But it's pretty 516 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 1: compelling evidence that multiple researchers knew this stuff was dangerous. 517 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,760 Speaker 1: Even if they did not know how it could affect 518 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 1: descendants of people exposed, they did know that it had 519 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: delatorious effects on people who are directly exposed, and dioxin 520 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: affected the US in other ways as well. In there 521 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: was a small town called Times Beach, Missouri. The roads 522 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: were sprayed with hexa chlorophyene that contained dioxin and the 523 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: town was disincorporated because of the extremely dangerous amounts of 524 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: dioxin that they were exposed to. This stuff makes people 525 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: obliterate towns there's no Times Beach, Missouri anymore. There's Root 526 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: sixty six State Park where it used to be. So 527 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: by the way, folks watch where you picnic. Yeah, please 528 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,280 Speaker 1: don't eat any strawberries, even like if they look delicious 529 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: and wild and you're like, oh man, it was look awesome. 530 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,959 Speaker 1: I gotta get some strawberries. Don't do it. Just don't 531 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: do it. I don't know if strawberries grow out there. Well, 532 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: it's it's a good idea, just that donate anything out 533 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: there if you find it growing. And now, as we 534 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: as we conclude this episode, we unfortunately don't have a 535 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: happy ending. We have to quote the v A steps 536 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 1: in the right direction, but we still we still don't 537 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,879 Speaker 1: know what is going to happen to people who are 538 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: exhibiting UH symptoms based on their parents exposure to these substances. 539 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: And the government here in the States continually says there 540 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: will be a serious investigation of the phenomenon, and a 541 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 1: lot of scientists are working ardently on investigating it. But 542 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,280 Speaker 1: veterans in their families feel there's little real progress towards 543 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: admitting and addressing the effects of this herbicide. And you 544 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 1: can't really blame them. Yeah, I'm having such a hard 545 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 1: time with this one. You guys, let me see if 546 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: it works thing out here in my head while we 547 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: just discuss it. I want to hear your thoughts. So 548 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: it is so horrifying, I think, I mean horrifying just 549 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: encapsulates everything about this. But the thought that a country 550 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 1: outside of an internal conflict, which you know, the the 551 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 1: Vietnam War, which was fought between South Vietnam and North 552 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: Vietnam over ideological differences, um, was kind of their own battle. 553 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: It was a battle that was being fought way way 554 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: over there. If you're if you're sitting in the continuous 555 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: United States, and we intervened, and in doing so, we 556 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: caused horrors two generations to come for people in South 557 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: and North Vietnam. Um, it's it's almost I'm trying to 558 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: imagine what it would be like. I'm making some connection 559 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: between France coming to the aid of the United States 560 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,720 Speaker 1: during the Revolutionary War in some ways, but if France 561 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: had come over and like sprayed chemicals all across two 562 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: different fronts, and then for generations, even though we have 563 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 1: an America now, it's just got yeah, it's just got 564 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: birth effects all across it. I don't know. I don't 565 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:22,800 Speaker 1: know if there's any connection there. I'm just it's just 566 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: it's horrifying to me. Yeah, it's a good point. What 567 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: would what would similar comparison be, I don't know, And 568 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:33,919 Speaker 1: let us let us know if there's a real life 569 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: analog that you can recall, folks. Additionally, it's important for 570 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: us to say that it's incorrect and it's missing the 571 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 1: point to vilify people who were in the service at 572 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: this time, because these people, these military members were out 573 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 1: there risking their lives right for their country for a 574 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: greater good, and they were often just as exposed to 575 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:08,280 Speaker 1: the substance, if not more, having to load the stuff 576 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: and then get nozzles ready and get it in the planes. 577 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,919 Speaker 1: And the people who are on the plans actually doing 578 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,320 Speaker 1: the spraying are not the people who are going to understand, 579 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 1: you know, exactly what the health effects are of the substance. 580 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: It's just not how it's going to be. And one 581 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: more thing, those planes that we mentioned, the C one 582 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 1: two threes were destroyed shortly afterward to remove the well. 583 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: People who think there was a cover up would say 584 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: they were destroyed to remove the evidence of the event. 585 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,800 Speaker 1: But you can't remove it from people's genetic expression, you 586 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: know what I mean? Yeah, that's the you know the 587 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 1: other thing these see one three s or whatever they are, 588 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: if they had the like agent orange just all over 589 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 1: it and inside of it in going through the systems 590 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: of the plane, would you have to destroy it to 591 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,360 Speaker 1: not expose anybody else who's going to be on that 592 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,360 Speaker 1: plane to dios And because it seems like it's stuff 593 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 1: is so persistent, it might just be within that structure. 594 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,720 Speaker 1: I don't know the decay factor or anything. Oh yeah, okay, 595 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,360 Speaker 1: So maybe it's not a cover up. Maybe it's just 596 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: a health risk. Perhaps maybe it's both. It's like asbestos planes, 597 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:25,320 Speaker 1: asbestos planes. Yes, and now our story turns to you. 598 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Do you have personal 599 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: experience with agent orange? Do you have a relative who 600 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 1: was exposed whether or not in the Vietnam War? Let 601 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:37,719 Speaker 1: us know, and most importantly, let us know if you 602 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: think there is any sand to this idea. Is there 603 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: a cover up on the effects of agent orange? Is 604 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: it somehow a cynical grab for money. We want to 605 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 1: hear your stories. You can find Noel, Matt, Paul and 606 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: I all over the internet. We're on here's where it 607 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 1: gets crazy on Facebook. Right, that's our Facebook group that 608 00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: you have to answer a question and to join. You 609 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: better get it right or else you're not coming in. 610 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,359 Speaker 1: I screenshot at a couple of really good ones. Hang 611 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 1: on while while Noel is pulling those up. Also right 612 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,759 Speaker 1: to us. If you are a veteran or a member 613 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 1: of the v A and you have experience with that 614 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 1: with the v A or maybe work for them, and 615 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 1: you want to just give us some insider information about 616 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: like what is actually going on with regards to Asian 617 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,800 Speaker 1: orange or maybe depleted uranium another thing we've talked about before. 618 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, just right in. We'd love to hear your storty. 619 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 1: So spoiler alert the question and join the Facebook group 620 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: pretty easy. Who are the hosts of the podcast? Stuff 621 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,799 Speaker 1: that I want you to know? Um, and typically we get, 622 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,480 Speaker 1: you know, one of us, or three of us or 623 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,800 Speaker 1: a couple of us are Usually my name is spelled 624 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,239 Speaker 1: wrong or Ben's last name is butchered in some way. 625 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,719 Speaker 1: Josh and Ben. I've seen Josh and Ben. That's that's 626 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 1: a popular version of this show in in the bizarro world. 627 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: But this is this, this is this guy, says Irwin 628 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 1: D says uh, Hurricane Matthew, Dollar Dollar Bill Benjamin and 629 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,400 Speaker 1: evolved super for a ruler of producers and all, Wow 630 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 1: did that make your day? Yeah? It was pretty nice. 631 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 1: And I guess it's like Pokemon rules like evolved. I'm saying, 632 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: have you attained your final four? I hope not. Well, 633 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,440 Speaker 1: thanks so much, man it thanks for screech shot that. 634 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 1: I didn't see that one another one said Matt and 635 00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 1: some other guys. Alright, that's why you were walking around 636 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:32,280 Speaker 1: smug yesterday. We're We're okay. We of course are ourselves 637 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,919 Speaker 1: big fans of Here's where it gets crazy. It's where 638 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 1: we can hear from what we consider the most important 639 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,680 Speaker 1: part of the show. You and we've we've seen some 640 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 1: fantastic suggestions for episodes. UM received a message recently that 641 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 1: I thought the three of us would find interesting for 642 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: another episode, which was memory technology. Remember that Black Mirror 643 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,800 Speaker 1: episode with the grains that can replay your memories? So 644 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,359 Speaker 1: what if we do an episode where we explore whether 645 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 1: or not something like that could actually happen? I mean, 646 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 1: I feel like every episode of Black Mirror has a 647 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: wealth of potential topics. Big time. What was that? What 648 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 1: was that one that broke everybody's heart san Jipera oh Man, Yeah, 649 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 1: no spoilers. Just watch that one, beautiful. I watched it 650 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,359 Speaker 1: with my mom. Oh dude, are you telling me that? Yeah, well, 651 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,840 Speaker 1: did you know what it was before? You watch it 652 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 1: with her before? We'll check it out if you haven't yet. 653 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,400 Speaker 1: This one, we actually will not spoil. I think the 654 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,120 Speaker 1: story is strong enough that you should experience it for yourself. 655 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,640 Speaker 1: Shouldn't spoil any Black Mirror Superior show. I would say. 656 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,960 Speaker 1: We also listen to you on Twitter. We we look 657 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 1: at those all the time, all our notifications. It's it's 658 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 1: really fun to chat with you guys on there too. 659 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: And um, let's see what's the other Instagram conspiracy stuff show? 660 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,040 Speaker 1: And if you don't like any of that stuff, you 661 00:43:56,120 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 1: can call us one eight three as t E d 662 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,920 Speaker 1: w y t K in the morning. That's how it feels. 663 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: One eight three three s T d w y t K. 664 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 1: Give us a call, leave us a message. We might 665 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,080 Speaker 1: get on the air if we get enough of these. 666 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,279 Speaker 1: We did get a few in I noticed we got 667 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:18,479 Speaker 1: at least one or two recently. You hear me saying 668 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 1: one or two right, That means we need you to 669 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,319 Speaker 1: call in and leave a message. Please do it. If 670 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,759 Speaker 1: you don't like any of that stuff, write us a 671 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,680 Speaker 1: good old fashioned email. We are Conspiracy and How Stuff 672 00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:29,399 Speaker 1: Works dot com