Speaker 1: M M. Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring
Speaker 1: conversations with industry leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm
Speaker 1: Cynthia Littleton, business editor for Variety Today. My guest in
Speaker 1: New York is Sarah Barnett, President of Entertainment Networks for
Speaker 1: AMC Networks. Barnett and I sat down just a few
Speaker 1: days before Killing Eve had its second season premiere on
Speaker 1: BBC America. Barnett and I discussed at length and in
Speaker 1: granular detail, the benefits of a hit, a viral hit
Speaker 1: like Killing E for a cable channel like BBC America
Speaker 1: at this time in the programming world. Barnett also discusses
Speaker 1: AMC's deep investment in what she calls forensic audience research
Speaker 1: tools to get a better handle on how the audience
Speaker 1: for AMC and its sibling channels move across those networks
Speaker 1: and how AMC can best corral that audience data. She
Speaker 1: also gives a very candid discussion about what she's learned
Speaker 1: in the business of what she calls change management over
Speaker 1: her long career of taking over cable channels in need
Speaker 1: of rehabilitation. It's a great conversation with one of the
Speaker 1: fast rising stars in the television business. Sarah Barnett, President
Speaker 1: of the Entertainment Networks Group for AMC Networks, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming by today. Such a pleasure. Let's
Speaker 1: talk to you. Guys are just on the throws now
Speaker 1: of of launching Killing Eve for its second season. This
Speaker 1: is a This is the probably the biggest, the best
Speaker 1: gift that a TV programmer can have. A buzzy sleeper
Speaker 1: success story. Came on BBC America last year as a
Speaker 1: little show and you knew you probably knew it would
Speaker 1: get some attention because it had great auspices. Phoebe waller Bridge,
Speaker 1: Sandra Oh, Jody Comber, a name that wasn't as known
Speaker 1: here but in the US, but certainly is now it
Speaker 1: comes on your air it by dint of it's just
Speaker 1: purely how good it was. It It rises to the up,
Speaker 1: gets a lot of attention and now has now been
Speaker 1: on an awards March, and just all the good things
Speaker 1: that you could possibly want for a show. Tell me
Speaker 1: what on a business level, what does a show with
Speaker 1: a trajectory like that mean for a cable channel like
Speaker 1: a BBC America. Yeah, I mean, we certainly couldn't have
Speaker 1: anticipated the um that the scale and buzz of Killing Eve.
Speaker 1: In fact, we would have been kind of insane had
Speaker 1: we done that, because in the world we live in today,
Speaker 1: it's so hard to break through. UM. And I can
Speaker 1: talk at some point about the reasons why I think
Speaker 1: this show did break through, but UM, it's a dream
Speaker 1: on a business level. You know, first of all, everywhere
Speaker 1: we go, whether we're talking to advertisers, or whether we're
Speaker 1: talking to affiliates, or whether we're talking to anyone else
Speaker 1: in our industry. Um, Killing Eve is all anyone wants
Speaker 1: to talk about at the moment. It really is. Eventually,
Speaker 1: I try and move people off the topic to talk
Speaker 1: about everything else to talk about let's talk, um. So
Speaker 1: you know, I think we can't underestimate the impact word.
Speaker 1: I mean, let's start with our advertisers. The impact with
Speaker 1: that this show has. Um not just in the pricing
Speaker 1: that our sales team are able to get now moving
Speaker 1: into a season two with this kind of success behind us,
Speaker 1: but the way it opened door opens doors to talk
Speaker 1: about other things on our network, the way it opens
Speaker 1: doors to talk about other things across the portfolio of
Speaker 1: networks is really quite something. UM. So that's why we
Speaker 1: took the business decision to put season two of Killing
Speaker 1: Eve not just on BBC America but also on AMC.
Speaker 1: We get amazing pricing for season two. Um So, the
Speaker 1: value to the business in very transactional ways is calculable
Speaker 1: and big. The value to the business in other ways,
Speaker 1: maybe softer ways, um is every bit as big, if
Speaker 1: not bigger. It's a calling card people want to come
Speaker 1: to a network that how a show like that. Creative
Speaker 1: people want to work with you. Creative people are interested
Speaker 1: now in coming to BBC America and through that open
Speaker 1: the door to a m C, BBC America, I f C, Sundance,
Speaker 1: the whole entertainment group. Um So, the ability that we
Speaker 1: all have to create amazing partnerships with our affiliate, our
Speaker 1: advertising and our creative constituents with a show like this
Speaker 1: is really something, and I think probably on the most
Speaker 1: sort of mega business level. I think the the stamp
Speaker 1: that this show has in continuing to mark AMC Networks
Speaker 1: as a company that punches above its weight and as
Speaker 1: a company that has this really quite phenomenal batting average
Speaker 1: in the premium scripted world is again something that I
Speaker 1: think speaks profoundly and deeply to our investment community, UM,
Speaker 1: and to other kinds of business stakeholders. It's important that
Speaker 1: even in a world of five shows, and even in
Speaker 1: a world where there's more appreciation for niche than ever before,
Speaker 1: there's no substitute for something that everybody's talking about. I
Speaker 1: think there's no substitute for something that becomes a true
Speaker 1: cultural conversation point. I think that's that's the holy grail.
Speaker 1: I think that's what every platform, every business, big or small,
Speaker 1: is looking for, and I think the Killing Eve is
Speaker 1: the poster child for that right now. So we don't
Speaker 1: take that for granted, we don't take that lightly. UM.
Speaker 1: We celebrate it. We celebrate it with some neurosis because
Speaker 1: that's our that's our character and our makeup. Everybody knows
Speaker 1: Season two is often hard, and we want to find
Speaker 1: the next one. We want to find the next Killing Eve. UM.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think I think that that kind of
Speaker 1: the kind of cultural currency that a show like Killing
Speaker 1: Eve has is I think the fuel that can really
Speaker 1: sort of inspire a new chapter if that's not too
Speaker 1: ambitious an aspiration from it, but it's very it's very meaningful.
Speaker 1: Is that a when you have success like that, when
Speaker 1: it is you know, it is hard to bring it
Speaker 1: for anything to break out. It is hard to get
Speaker 1: attention for shows. When you have a success like that,
Speaker 1: that is a sleeper I would imagine just for your staff,
Speaker 1: for the organization. It's such a lift you know it
Speaker 1: can still happen. It's actually wonderful, and thank you for
Speaker 1: bringing that up because it's it's actually on a personal level.
Speaker 1: One of the most fulfilling things is to see a
Speaker 1: team that slogs day in, day out in a world
Speaker 1: where you know, we're also aware of the challenge of
Speaker 1: how many shows there are UM and how fragmented our
Speaker 1: industry is, and how hard it is to UM to
Speaker 1: get the attention of an audience to tune in UM.
Speaker 1: So when you have something like this like killing You,
Speaker 1: that breaks through, I think the elation, the potency, the
Speaker 1: pride UH and the sheer sort of joy and commitments
Speaker 1: that doubles back. I think from from the team UM
Speaker 1: into the work that they do is is something you
Speaker 1: can't bottle. It's actually really extraordinary. There have been many
Speaker 1: cupcakes celebrations last year. Absolutely what is when you decided
Speaker 1: to put to do a simulcast on AMC and BBC
Speaker 1: America of Killing You for season two. What is the
Speaker 1: What were the calculations that you looked at in terms
Speaker 1: of in terms of deciding whether you know, obviously there
Speaker 1: there was a potential to funnel more audience to BBC
Speaker 1: America or did you think that with this kind of
Speaker 1: buzz it would be better to give it a just
Speaker 1: a wider platform. Yeah. The philosophy behind putting Killing Evan
Speaker 1: a m C as one is BBC Mico is to
Speaker 1: use a m C simply as a marketing platform for
Speaker 1: the show. We believe this show has um the ability
Speaker 1: to clearly have connected culturally with fans, with critics, with
Speaker 1: so many people in such a fizzy kind of way.
Speaker 1: We're so thinking it has the storytelling d n A,
Speaker 1: the big swings in terms of its entertainment quotient to
Speaker 1: potentially connect with a really broad audience and a broad
Speaker 1: audience that a platform like BBC America, even though it can,
Speaker 1: you know, with Doctor Who and at times with Natural
Speaker 1: History programming, reach a big audience, it's just not as
Speaker 1: distributed as a m C, and it doesn't have a
Speaker 1: show like The Walking Dead that we can use as
Speaker 1: a promotional platform um to promote to Killing Eve from
Speaker 1: I mean, of course we could promote from Walking Dead
Speaker 1: to BBC America, and indeed we do, but to promote
Speaker 1: it's always stronger to promote from Walking Dead to Killing
Speaker 1: Eve on that same platform, partly because, as they say,
Speaker 1: don't go anywhere exactly, and partly because some of those
Speaker 1: people watching Walking Dead just don't get BBC America. It's
Speaker 1: not as it's not as broadly distributed as a m
Speaker 1: C A, which is, you know, distributed everywhere you have cable.
Speaker 1: So um. So the calculation was really that we believe
Speaker 1: that this show had proven that it had the ability
Speaker 1: to connect in a really quite stunning and extraordinary way.
Speaker 1: Um and it actually connects with a bigger point of
Speaker 1: view that we have that I have actually in one
Speaker 1: of the exciting things I feel about how the opportunity
Speaker 1: is m with a new structure that puts these four
Speaker 1: networks together is at a MC networks is the ability
Speaker 1: to really understand how and where our audiences between the
Speaker 1: four bran brands overlap, and how and where they're different,
Speaker 1: and where we think there's opportunity to move shows from
Speaker 1: one network to another because we don't think it's duplicative.
Speaker 1: We actually think it's just additive. We'll be doing a
Speaker 1: lot more than that, and we will also be promoting
Speaker 1: a lot more across from one network to another. And
Speaker 1: the only reason we can really do this is it's
Speaker 1: it's pretty case by case, but it's informed really by
Speaker 1: UM the ability to use some quite sophisticated performance marketing
Speaker 1: data analytics that we've built in house that allows us
Speaker 1: to really understand for the first time how and where
Speaker 1: our audience moves between our different platforms. So I think
Speaker 1: as our competitors are bulking up and we remain relatively nimble,
Speaker 1: not on the huge size, not on the huge side
Speaker 1: compared to a you know, in large Disney or exactly,
Speaker 1: but the ability I think for us to wrap our
Speaker 1: arms as a business around the entire ecosystem of our audience,
Speaker 1: understand our audience and understand how and where we can
Speaker 1: move shows from one platform to another to speak to
Speaker 1: different audiences, I think becomes a really smart way for
Speaker 1: us to really align our audiences and maximize our audiences
Speaker 1: and stay sort of nimble and smart and competitive. So
Speaker 1: so only seven percent of our audience across the four
Speaker 1: network percent of our only seven percent of our audience
Speaker 1: watch author networks and only six of our audience watch
Speaker 1: a MC and BBC America, which has would imagine it
Speaker 1: is the biggest duplication. So we think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of opportunity to flow shows around between our platforms, informed
Speaker 1: by some really quite a forensic understanding and some experimentation. Frankly,
Speaker 1: you know, we'll be trying things as UM. There's a
Speaker 1: show called a Discovery of Witches which launched earlier this year,
Speaker 1: actually on our streaming services, so it's not just our
Speaker 1: linear platforms, but on Shutter and Sundance Now and also
Speaker 1: on AMC Premiere. We launched the show Discovery of Witches. UM.
Speaker 1: It's a great show. It's it's um, it's genre, it's
Speaker 1: a vampire falls in love with a witch. It has
Speaker 1: Matthew Good. It's sort of posh but also broad. It's beautiful,
Speaker 1: it's shot around the world and but lots of it
Speaker 1: is an Oxford. It's just gorgeous. Anyway, it did extraordinarily
Speaker 1: well on these platforms that we launched it on these
Speaker 1: streaming platforms and an AMC premiere. UM, so we then thought, well,
Speaker 1: maybe it actually can migrate to linear, so we're airing
Speaker 1: it after Klive on both BBC A and see confidence
Speaker 1: in the show. Yeah, and it all comes down to
Speaker 1: content that we believe in, content that we believe really
Speaker 1: has the sort of the legs to connect, and you
Speaker 1: saw that it has real traction exactly exactly, So we'll say,
Speaker 1: you know, we'll learn as we go. UM. So let's
Speaker 1: talk about your new role you were promoted in. You
Speaker 1: had been running BBC America. Before that, you ran Sundance
Speaker 1: and in November you were promoted to a group role
Speaker 1: overseeing AMC, BBC America, i f C and Sundance TV.
Speaker 1: You started to answer some of my questions, but tell
Speaker 1: us what is what would you say are the benefits
Speaker 1: of that structure for running these distinct programming brands at
Speaker 1: this kind of crazy time in the programming world. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think the main one really is the ability to
Speaker 1: understand audience across the ecosystem of brands that we have
Speaker 1: and to program accordingly. Um. And that will means shifting
Speaker 1: content around somewhat while still absolutely retaining the discrete brand
Speaker 1: value programming reach that our different platforms have. You know,
Speaker 1: our affiliates, our advertisers, and our viewers all know our brands.
Speaker 1: You know, We don't have twenty five brands in our company.
Speaker 1: We have sort of a handful of really well curated,
Speaker 1: really deep, very meaningful brands, all of which do something
Speaker 1: quite original, but all of which have these interesting intersection
Speaker 1: points with each other. So the ability to sort of
Speaker 1: be to see it as a sort of complex puzzle
Speaker 1: but a cohesive whole. I think it is something that's
Speaker 1: really exciting, and I think that the teams that are
Speaker 1: coming together from the different for networks are finding that
Speaker 1: very exciting as well as I think really enjoying um
Speaker 1: uncovering talent internally the previously squirreled away in different parts.
Speaker 1: The ability, I think to sort of pull together a
Speaker 1: team of people, so the management piece of it, and
Speaker 1: to pull together a group of people to work together
Speaker 1: in new ways who haven't previously worked together, to create
Speaker 1: a culture which is steal around understanding our brands, knowing
Speaker 1: the value of our brands, what they mean, their brands
Speaker 1: that have a lot of equity behind them, and also
Speaker 1: encouraging people to not be siloed by brand, but to
Speaker 1: think in a sort of portfolio way require some new muscles.
Speaker 1: I think is really really interesting and I think people
Speaker 1: are very much enjoying. I think actually all humans kind
Speaker 1: of enjoy both being passionate about certain things, but also
Speaker 1: then having a sense of the bigger interconnectedness and how
Speaker 1: to work across something bigger, and particularly in the business
Speaker 1: reality of today, we sort of have to. But I
Speaker 1: think it's a challenge that everyone's up for and writing
Speaker 1: to UM, So yeah, it's sort of it's a fascinating
Speaker 1: moment and a really interesting moment to take what we
Speaker 1: have and create sort of new patterns from it. UM.
Speaker 1: And then I think, you know, the other thing I
Speaker 1: think that's a real advantage of us being organized in
Speaker 1: this new way is you know, David Madden now overseas
Speaker 1: programming for all four of the networks that I oversee,
Speaker 1: and for him, the ability and his team, the ability
Speaker 1: to be in the creative community buying full four of
Speaker 1: these networks is great. And four networks that all have,
Speaker 1: as I said, at distinct point of yeah, and a
Speaker 1: real I would say, sort of creative energy in different
Speaker 1: ways about all of them. They've all done things that
Speaker 1: sort of stand out, you know, if not as huge
Speaker 1: on the smaller networks, and certainly as a very distinctive
Speaker 1: for original, very risk taking UM so there's definite advantage
Speaker 1: there and has the I would imagine that the feedback
Speaker 1: from the creative community allowing you to streamline the ability
Speaker 1: to pitch i f C in Sundance and BBC and
Speaker 1: AMC in one fell swoop. I imagine that would be
Speaker 1: that would be welcomed again at a time when people
Speaker 1: all I hear from people is that they're overwhelmed with
Speaker 1: the number of choices, even the number of choices of
Speaker 1: you know, where am I going to shop my comedy? Totally?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think comedy probably is slightly different.
Speaker 1: It's a slightly nippy Aaronson who's been overseeing programming for
Speaker 1: for i f C for a while. Our reports into
Speaker 1: David Madden, but he's sort of pretty much in his
Speaker 1: area doing his thing. With comedy tends to be just
Speaker 1: a different bunch of writers, different people you're talking to,
Speaker 1: certainly with the scripted networks. I think it is a
Speaker 1: real advantage. I think it's also an advantage of just
Speaker 1: brag for a moment for us to have David Madman
Speaker 1: the seat. I think he's so beloved in the community, goods,
Speaker 1: such a good and so so good at what he does.
Speaker 1: Um that I love having his expertise now across all
Speaker 1: four of the networks. I think he's I think it's
Speaker 1: one of our He's one of our weapons for sure.
Speaker 1: And you talked a lot about tracking audience and understanding audience.
Speaker 1: How much would you say, UM, you invest as a
Speaker 1: company in in understanding and that's sort of dissecting the
Speaker 1: audience that you have. I would imagine that that's a
Speaker 1: growing expenditure and area of focus for you. Yeah. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I mean more and law. So for several years now,
Speaker 1: we've had a business intelligence department internal run by UM,
Speaker 1: an incredibly clever guy called Vitality seven and his team,
Speaker 1: and he's been building a number of proprietary products, some
Speaker 1: of which are very much focused on the advertising world,
Speaker 1: and I would say a best in class planning tool
Speaker 1: called Aurora that we have on the odd side. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then he's been working for the last three or
Speaker 1: four years quite intensely with Linda Shupac, who's our wonderful
Speaker 1: head of marketing, on some performance marketing and predictive analytical
Speaker 1: tools that really help us understand who to target, how
Speaker 1: to target, how to measure the targeting as we're going
Speaker 1: through a campaign. UM and then how to post mortem
Speaker 1: um and underneath all of that, how to have some
Speaker 1: real forensic understanding of who our audiences are, what they're consuming,
Speaker 1: how they're moving around our platforms. So it's you know,
Speaker 1: and then we also have some tools is developed that
Speaker 1: are super sophisticated. Is rolling out the two point O
Speaker 1: version of a tool we call internally pat which is
Speaker 1: about how we place promos and how we understand who
Speaker 1: they connect with, and how we can best use the
Speaker 1: inventory we have on our air for promotion to both
Speaker 1: optimize our linear business and build to our future businesses.
Speaker 1: So how to promote a n C premiere, how to
Speaker 1: promote to our subscription services to Shutter, Sundance Now and
Speaker 1: now Acorn and U n C. So we're really looking
Speaker 1: at how we can think, if you like, philosophically about
Speaker 1: our linear platforms as these incredibly successful platforms that are
Speaker 1: still big but are the engine of the company. They
Speaker 1: are the engine of the company entirely. But how we
Speaker 1: can use how we can use the sort of incumbency
Speaker 1: we have and the strength of that that legacy platform
Speaker 1: to help build our new businesses. How we can promote
Speaker 1: to our gaming how we can promote to any sort
Speaker 1: of comic book activity we're doing so so it's exciting
Speaker 1: a lot of tools. How much do you when you program,
Speaker 1: how much do you think about programming for that live
Speaker 1: linear audience versus programming to somebody who's gonna either record
Speaker 1: a bunch of episodes and wait or go to go
Speaker 1: to your AMC Premier. Is your subscription service that allows
Speaker 1: people you know early access two shows or or to
Speaker 1: an authenticated platform. Is that do you calculate that in
Speaker 1: your just terms of the timing and how you when
Speaker 1: you launch shows, when you roll them out? So is
Speaker 1: your question more around slots, timing, content acquisition or around
Speaker 1: the actual creative we are looking for the nature of
Speaker 1: the storytelling. Yeah, that I would say both. Actually, it's
Speaker 1: a really interesting question. Um. We tend to juggle pretty
Speaker 1: much between our Lidea platforms and the slots that we
Speaker 1: need in order to both retain audiences, be vital with
Speaker 1: enough original content fit into the upper schedule that our
Speaker 1: advertisers need. Um, so we're pro programming for that. On
Speaker 1: the linear side, we're increasingly also folding in the content
Speaker 1: acquisition needs for AMC Premiere. So um, they're differentiated offering
Speaker 1: tends to be around early content and binge able content,
Speaker 1: and obviously add free content. So it's a little checkerboard
Speaker 1: right now. It's sort of one or a combination of
Speaker 1: those three things that will be their differentiator. Sometimes it's early,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's not because of production schedules. Um Sometimes it's
Speaker 1: possible to binge an entire season prior to us launching it.
Speaker 1: Sometimes we choose not to because with certain shows there's
Speaker 1: a big conversation with the writers and the show runners
Speaker 1: around spoilers. So it's an interesting moment where we're both
Speaker 1: protecting linear and the linear experience and the linear numbers
Speaker 1: and at the same time fueling and driving new business models.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating. I think we're learning a lot right um
Speaker 1: in and the kind of engrossing dramas that your channels
Speaker 1: that you certainly am C and Sundayans and BBC are
Speaker 1: known for. You know, I think it's there's no question
Speaker 1: that the audience has spoken and that there is a
Speaker 1: real you know, there's almost a you know, there's a
Speaker 1: generation almost that has been trained now to watch those
Speaker 1: kinds of shows, particularly without commercials. Is that on the
Speaker 1: linear side, is the need to service that advertising. Is
Speaker 1: that becoming you know, is that becoming a bigger hardship
Speaker 1: for you in terms of and are you looking at
Speaker 1: any potential models to kind of limit the number of
Speaker 1: interruptions or get around that? Yeah, yeah, I mean that.
Speaker 1: You know. That's why something like cleave popping and jumping
Speaker 1: out in a AD supported environment is sort of remarkable,
Speaker 1: the numbers that continue to be there in spite of
Speaker 1: the fact that the headlines are written or sort of
Speaker 1: about slippage, but the continued primacy of of the Walking
Speaker 1: Dead in cable. UM. We do think that there are
Speaker 1: certain things in a linear environment that has a necessity
Speaker 1: of having ads UM, there are certain storytelling ingredients that
Speaker 1: need to be there. I think it needs to have
Speaker 1: big swings, It needs to have um cliffhangers built in,
Speaker 1: not just at the end of an episode, but equally
Speaker 1: at acts. I actually think there's something about the craft
Speaker 1: of that kind of TV writing that can get a
Speaker 1: little bit lost, frankly in the amorphous nous of a
Speaker 1: season being dropped and there being no necessity to the
Speaker 1: shaped Yeah yeah, twelve one, So there's no need for
Speaker 1: the cliffangers, There's no need for that sort of structure.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the Yeah and Breaking Bad was
Speaker 1: probably the the to me, the sort of the absolute
Speaker 1: sort of perfection of the form, if you like. But
Speaker 1: I think a lot of sitcoms too, are written in
Speaker 1: such a smart way that have always been UM very
Speaker 1: much informed by the US form of television, which has
Speaker 1: breaks in it. So I think a lot of our
Speaker 1: content is formed in a way where we believe there's
Speaker 1: a propulsion to it and a certain kind of high
Speaker 1: entertainment value to UM to the shows that it will
Speaker 1: pull people through the forming watch in which they watch it.
Speaker 1: A m C premiere is really our first to market
Speaker 1: experiment within our m v P D ecosystem of presenting
Speaker 1: to audiences another way of watching. So it's an upsell
Speaker 1: you pay for and you have the ability to watch
Speaker 1: a m C shows early, uninterrupted, UM and with other
Speaker 1: kinds of extras. Another kid that I mentioned earlier. So
Speaker 1: so yeah, so we're we're again experimenting with the ways
Speaker 1: that people want to watch, but continuing to make content
Speaker 1: that we believe is sort of to some extent created
Speaker 1: in a way that we're us in our environment on
Speaker 1: our platforms. That's it's all order. How has the uptake
Speaker 1: been on AMC Premiere. It's been encouraging. We're ahead of
Speaker 1: our projections. We don't give numbers, as you probably know. Um,
Speaker 1: but it's done well. I mean Walking Down has driven
Speaker 1: a lot of it Discovery, of which is was remarkably
Speaker 1: successful when it was the highest it was the most
Speaker 1: successful show on Shadow and Sentance now and up there
Speaker 1: with AMC Premiere. Um, it's doing well where we're encouraged,
Speaker 1: you're encouraged to keep to keep it going. Yeah. Interesting. Um,
Speaker 1: let me ask you, obviously, it's it starts in in
Speaker 1: many cases ends with content. Right now, there's no shortage
Speaker 1: of competition for you know, for talent, for stars. You
Speaker 1: a BBC America. You had invested a lot in promoting
Speaker 1: these incredible BBC Natural History documentaries. A couple of days
Speaker 1: ago there was a headline BBC has done a deal
Speaker 1: with Discovery. It's a cutthroat environment. How do you how
Speaker 1: do you compete in a world where you've competing against
Speaker 1: companies with you know, balance sheets bigger than some small
Speaker 1: European countries. Yeah, I'll come back to the natural history thing.
Speaker 1: It's interesting. Um, generally we compete in the way we've
Speaker 1: always competed We've never been the biggest. If it was
Speaker 1: all about giving orders and writing checks and everyone would
Speaker 1: have killing Eve walking dead. But of course Aul and
Speaker 1: they don't. We've always we've always competed by being savvy
Speaker 1: and having an eye across the boarder spotting good scripts
Speaker 1: and good talent. You know, it's mad Men, breaking bad
Speaker 1: and killing Eve for all scripts that have been overlooked
Speaker 1: by other people in other places. I think we're good
Speaker 1: at that. I hope we continue to be good at that.
Speaker 1: I think for a place where creative storytellers want to
Speaker 1: come for us, it isn't about assembling a big, shiny
Speaker 1: package of big names. Necessarily. It starts with a great
Speaker 1: writer having a alarmingly fresh idea that they have to hell,
Speaker 1: and then building around that, facilitating around that, staffing around that. Um.
Speaker 1: That's you know. I've always run, as you know, she said,
Speaker 1: pretty small scrapping networks on the BBC, Mierica certainly didn't.
Speaker 1: Aren't the most deep pocketed networks in town. Um. But
Speaker 1: I think it is always about to me, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: It's always about finding where the talent is, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to stay a little bit half a step ahead
Speaker 1: of where you think the audience is where you think
Speaker 1: the creative mood is going and then coming across great people.
Speaker 1: I think we have the team with David and his
Speaker 1: team to do that, to continue to do that. I
Speaker 1: think a MC has always been at its best when
Speaker 1: it's sort of veered left sharply, when it's subverted itself
Speaker 1: and done something surprising. UM. So we're excited about the
Speaker 1: next step to come back to the natural history thing.
Speaker 1: It is competitive, and you know, it doesn't surprise me
Speaker 1: that everyone wants to get their hands on these trought
Speaker 1: BBC Studios productions because they are transcendent and connect with
Speaker 1: audiences that I think is actually quite deep and profound,
Speaker 1: particularly a time of such division and separation. I think
Speaker 1: there's something actually almost I'm going to use a big word,
Speaker 1: but almost spiritual about how they pull people together. UM.
Speaker 1: We continue to be the home for the biggest natural
Speaker 1: history content in America. UM. These shows have always existed
Speaker 1: on Nestpot platform. It was previously Netflix. Now they're going
Speaker 1: to discover it. So I don't blame David Zaslav. I
Speaker 1: utterly understand his desire and uh declamatory um enthusiasm around
Speaker 1: how great these shows are I feel very confident that
Speaker 1: BBC where continues to be the biggest US home for
Speaker 1: natural history content in the United States and will continue
Speaker 1: to WEI just completed a five year deal with BBC
Speaker 1: Studios a few months ago to be the home of
Speaker 1: their biggest iconic tempole natural histy documentary shows that come
Speaker 1: off of BBC one So Planet three will be on
Speaker 1: BBC America, UM, Frozen Planet three or is It Too
Speaker 1: Frozen Planet to UM, and a number of other of
Speaker 1: these sort of iconic shows. So, and we have a
Speaker 1: lot of ambition around what we intend to do with
Speaker 1: them and how we invent. We intend to continue to
Speaker 1: elevate all the natural history content. I actually think natural
Speaker 1: history content is a very interesting UM. I think natural
Speaker 1: history content plays actually very well in the linear environment.
Speaker 1: I think there's sort of something wonderfully relevant with this
Speaker 1: content about people being time bound in how they watch
Speaker 1: it and watching it at the same time as other people,
Speaker 1: because I do think this content is something like that
Speaker 1: pulls people together and reminds us of our connectedness. We
Speaker 1: used this this phrase for the last few tem poles
Speaker 1: on bbcmor Echo, which was gathered together, and that does
Speaker 1: feel like there's something Actually that is meaningful, um in
Speaker 1: that offer that only linear TV can really do that
Speaker 1: to come together at the same moment to watch this
Speaker 1: sort of incredibly transcendent and connecting storytelling. And they could
Speaker 1: not Planet Earth and Blue Planet could not come at
Speaker 1: a at this moment when we're talking about climate change.
Speaker 1: It could not come at a better moment to remind us,
Speaker 1: you know, when whenever one of those great shows is on,
Speaker 1: my friends have to listen to me, to my speech.
Speaker 1: But this is what television can be. This is so
Speaker 1: to your point. Absolutely, that's good to know. I think
Speaker 1: the assumption reading that headline was well, those things are
Speaker 1: going away, but it sounds like there's a there's a
Speaker 1: there's a lot of rights to go to split and
Speaker 1: go around for the for the natural history that are
Speaker 1: we'll be making an announcement pretty shortly, which is very good.
Speaker 1: That's good because I know that I know that you
Speaker 1: guys have invested quite a bit in those um Uh,
Speaker 1: let me ask you for you personally, coming in to
Speaker 1: a role like this where you've had a big step
Speaker 1: up in authority and responsibility, the number of people you know,
Speaker 1: feeding into you, how has that been for you in
Speaker 1: your career as you've stepped up to higher degrees of
Speaker 1: management and seniority. Is management something that came easy to
Speaker 1: you or was it something that it took you some
Speaker 1: time to learn how to how to lead a group
Speaker 1: of people. UM. I think as the oldest girl in
Speaker 1: a family of six children, I probably have an overresponsibility
Speaker 1: take up. But I don't think that necessarily equals a
Speaker 1: good manager. I think it means I rush into fill
Speaker 1: avoid but I had a lot to learn. I don't
Speaker 1: know that there are many naturally good managers in life,
Speaker 1: maybe a few sort of incredibly evolved humans. I'm certainly
Speaker 1: not one of them. The biggest sort of step for
Speaker 1: me in terms of my leadership learning was when I
Speaker 1: first became GM of Sundance Channel as it was then called.
Speaker 1: And I previously run to apartments, but I hadn't run
Speaker 1: a team, and I hadn't I hadn't been in that
Speaker 1: position of leadership in a way where the expectations become
Speaker 1: so exponentially higher on you, not just in terms of
Speaker 1: fulfilling the job and the specifics of the job technically,
Speaker 1: but in terms of what people expect you to carry
Speaker 1: for them, um, and what people project onto you and
Speaker 1: what people's needs are around that. UM. And I've always
Speaker 1: taken over leadership roles, both Sundance and then BBC America
Speaker 1: and now this role. I've always stepped into jobs. There's
Speaker 1: not just taking over the job from somebody else, but
Speaker 1: actually taking over at a point of massive disruption. So
Speaker 1: I took over Sundance when it had just been brought
Speaker 1: by AMC Networks, big big shift. You know, we weren't
Speaker 1: rated prior to that. It was a very very different time. UM.
Speaker 1: I took over a BBC America when it's equally half
Speaker 1: of it was bought by BBC America and it was
Speaker 1: taken into BBC into ANC Networks operational control. So again
Speaker 1: big big cultural shift. Team that have been used to
Speaker 1: working there's a sort of satellite into London, UM, suddenly
Speaker 1: in this sort of different corporate structure. And now I'm
Speaker 1: moving into this role at the time where it's not
Speaker 1: just taking over Charlie Collier's role, but a sort of
Speaker 1: differently configured job. Very much so yeah, really so. So
Speaker 1: I've grown some I've gown some muscles in the area
Speaker 1: of change management. But it's you know, I guess one
Speaker 1: of the things that I've come to believe so strongly.
Speaker 1: Sort of feels intuitive, but I kind of had to
Speaker 1: learn it was is how important tum is, how important
Speaker 1: having not just great people but the right configuration of
Speaker 1: people around you is, and how important it is to
Speaker 1: sort of build that see that shape, that structure that.
Speaker 1: So I've inherited and brought with me in this role
Speaker 1: some incredible people. So I feel very very lucky in
Speaker 1: that sense, um, you know, And I think that the
Speaker 1: the thing that I'm sort of figuring out in this
Speaker 1: role from a leadership management point of view is I
Speaker 1: sort of got used to running a network, running for
Speaker 1: networks and am supremieer. I can't do it in the
Speaker 1: way I did it before, so I sort of have
Speaker 1: to understand what to let go of, what those things
Speaker 1: that matter are, and how to sort of be in
Speaker 1: touch with the leavers that I have to be in
Speaker 1: touch with, and to let go of some other things.
Speaker 1: So it's a process. I would say, I'm still in it.
Speaker 1: I'm enjoying trying to figure out what that is, UM,
Speaker 1: but it's you know, and everything's going so far there's
Speaker 1: no good to touch well UM, partly because the team
Speaker 1: is has been quite seamless. Um. But yeah, I would
Speaker 1: say I'm still trying to figure out exactly where to
Speaker 1: be where I don't have to be a lot of
Speaker 1: time in l A a lot of time there with
Speaker 1: David and his team. Um, less time in London. But
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's you know, and then there's sort of
Speaker 1: some some sort of like reassurings to let's at the
Speaker 1: top of the SEE network. So we had Carol who's
Speaker 1: been my boss for the past gosh ten years or more.
Speaker 1: It's still my boss, you know. Josh Sapan, who's been
Speaker 1: the CEO for many years, is still there, and we're
Speaker 1: all sort of in it together, wrestling with what it
Speaker 1: is to keep shape shifting in response to the big
Speaker 1: changes in our business. Um, I couldn't be in it
Speaker 1: with better people, couldn't imagine being in it with better people.
Speaker 1: I think there's a nimbleness that comes from our size.
Speaker 1: I think there's a great spirit in our company. Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we're all up for the challenge. Tell me
Speaker 1: of all the things you know you've got juggling a
Speaker 1: lot of networks, any any one or two things, anything
Speaker 1: that you're really excited about programming with. So by the
Speaker 1: time it's as Brot Meyer as I'm speaking to you
Speaker 1: is launching tonight. Super excited about that. It's season three.
Speaker 1: Hankers Areas is an absolute passion project is to see
Speaker 1: it when he's on screen. So I think someone said
Speaker 1: maybe it's a character in the show. I can't remember.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was a reviewer. He goes from drunk asshole
Speaker 1: to sober asshole. UM, and it's just, you know, it's
Speaker 1: just amazing, it's fantastic. It's like nothing out it's perfection. UM.
Speaker 1: Super excited about killing even Discovery, which is of course,
Speaker 1: and I'm really excited about The Terror season two, which
Speaker 1: is coming back later this year. It's UM. It's sort
Speaker 1: of an extraordinary um contained horror series that is based
Speaker 1: starts right around the time of Pearl Harbor UM, so
Speaker 1: it incorporates and it's a community of Japanese people, so
Speaker 1: it's sort of immediately sent to internment camps. And then
Speaker 1: it also, you know, it's a horror series, so there's
Speaker 1: also a j horror, Japanese horror theme that spreads through it.
Speaker 1: It's beautiful, It's unlike anything else I've ever seen. It
Speaker 1: has an incredibly sure hand. Really excited also about a
Speaker 1: show called nos Ferato, which is from Joe Hill, Stephen
Speaker 1: King's son, So a good pedigree there. It's horror stars
Speaker 1: an amazing young woman, UM called Ashley Cummings, who is
Speaker 1: a fantastic protagonist. She's sort of there's something very you
Speaker 1: want to protect her, but she's sort of a fighter.
Speaker 1: Like all guit horror, its grounded in your psychological truth. Um.
Speaker 1: Zachary Quinto plays is sort of creepy. You know what's
Speaker 1: creepier than Christmas time? He sort of perverts Christmas in
Speaker 1: this fascinating way. Um. So there's a lot coming up
Speaker 1: on the network. So I'm really excited about State of
Speaker 1: the Union. Sundance is an innovation in form. It's written
Speaker 1: by Nick Hornby. It's directed by Stephen Frears, has Chris
Speaker 1: O'Dowd and Rosamond Pipe. I've just in a few episodes
Speaker 1: stuffed one of talent. What did you think it sounds silly?
Speaker 1: I loved it. They were ten minutes. It was actually
Speaker 1: very you know, as anybody will say, you know, and
Speaker 1: writing short is harder than writing along, So I was.
Speaker 1: I was incredibly impressed at the you know, the economy
Speaker 1: and just how well they were presented and how much
Speaker 1: you got into the characters in such a short time.
Speaker 1: It was very eye opening, you know, because we're so
Speaker 1: used to you know, fifty minutes or you know, twenty
Speaker 1: two minutes. But it was very interesting. And of course
Speaker 1: Rosamund Pike and Crystal Dowba that you was casts so well,
Speaker 1: so perfectly. It's very interesting. McCom is pretty smart. He's
Speaker 1: genius at writing men and women. He is genius, and
Speaker 1: he understands relationships in such a smart way. I think
Speaker 1: he's incredible. Um, and I think that it is the
Speaker 1: perfect conceit to fit the form, because you know, it
Speaker 1: is hard, as you say, but to come up with
Speaker 1: this idea of ten minutes prior to a couple's therapy
Speaker 1: session in a pub is just brilliant because each week
Speaker 1: you've had a week that's gone by, you have material
Speaker 1: for them to talk about, you have the anxiety of
Speaker 1: than then going into this therapist's office. Um, it's sort
Speaker 1: of perfect. It's brilliant. So we're gonna launch that in
Speaker 1: May on Sundance TV. So that's super exciting to be
Speaker 1: experimenting with form there and doing something quite innovative. Um.
Speaker 1: And then we have some stuff in development I'm really
Speaker 1: excited about as well, something called sixty one three, which
Speaker 1: is from UM Peter Moffatt. It's we partnered them with
Speaker 1: Michael B. Jordan's outlier company and it's sort takes on
Speaker 1: the audacious, ambitious topic of race in America. UM. It's
Speaker 1: incredibly moving, it's propulsive. UM that's in development. And then
Speaker 1: a show called I'm not sure if your podcast will
Speaker 1: have to bleep this, but it's called Kevin Can Fuck
Speaker 1: Himself working title from a Sheeta Jones, and it's a
Speaker 1: sort of it's a where it's a it's a really
Speaker 1: cool show that it starts and it looks like a
Speaker 1: sort of multicam sort of traditional comedy. Then it's a
Speaker 1: sort of obnoxious husband and the long suffering eye rolling
Speaker 1: wife and there's a bit of banter. She leaves the
Speaker 1: room cut too, single camera follows her. She is miserable
Speaker 1: and planning to kill that slob of a house bold.
Speaker 1: So it mixes a sort of comedy. So it's quite
Speaker 1: sort of matter, I guess, and how it's sort of
Speaker 1: how you see something, the perspective of something. But it's
Speaker 1: funny and it's sort of picker usk and it's um
Speaker 1: really ambitious UM, and I think could be quite cool.
Speaker 1: So there are a few things in development that I'm
Speaker 1: really excited about. I can see it, I can hear it.
Speaker 1: That's wonderful. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: stopping and to talk with us about some pretty weighty issues.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it and good luck to you. Thank
Speaker 1: you Sin this great chat. Thanks for listening. Be sure
Speaker 1: to tune in next week for another episode of Strictly Business.