WEBVTT - Sarah Barnett: ‘Killing’ It at AMC Networks 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:09.119 M M. Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.800 conversations with industry leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:16.439 Cynthia Littleton, business editor for Variety Today. My guest in 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.720 New York is Sarah Barnett, President of Entertainment Networks for 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:22.760 AMC Networks. Barnett and I sat down just a few 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:25.639 days before Killing Eve had its second season premiere on 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:29.040 BBC America. Barnett and I discussed at length and in 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:32.919 granular detail, the benefits of a hit, a viral hit 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:36.159 like Killing E for a cable channel like BBC America 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:40.040 at this time in the programming world. Barnett also discusses 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:45.479 AMC's deep investment in what she calls forensic audience research 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.800 tools to get a better handle on how the audience 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.760 for AMC and its sibling channels move across those networks 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:56.400 and how AMC can best corral that audience data. She 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.960 also gives a very candid discussion about what she's learned 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.080 in the business of what she calls change management over 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:05.959 her long career of taking over cable channels in need 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:10.000 of rehabilitation. It's a great conversation with one of the 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:16.840 fast rising stars in the television business. Sarah Barnett, President 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.800 of the Entertainment Networks Group for AMC Networks, thank you 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.319 so much for coming by today. Such a pleasure. Let's 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:25.360 talk to you. Guys are just on the throws now 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:29.640 of of launching Killing Eve for its second season. This 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:31.640 is a This is the probably the biggest, the best 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:36.040 gift that a TV programmer can have. A buzzy sleeper 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:40.600 success story. Came on BBC America last year as a 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:42.440 little show and you knew you probably knew it would 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:46.240 get some attention because it had great auspices. Phoebe waller Bridge, 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:50.040 Sandra Oh, Jody Comber, a name that wasn't as known 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:53.320 here but in the US, but certainly is now it 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.680 comes on your air it by dint of it's just 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:00.240 purely how good it was. It It rises to the up, 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:02.560 gets a lot of attention and now has now been 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.440 on an awards March, and just all the good things 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:08.639 that you could possibly want for a show. Tell me 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.920 what on a business level, what does a show with 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:16.040 a trajectory like that mean for a cable channel like 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:20.320 a BBC America. Yeah, I mean, we certainly couldn't have 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:27.080 anticipated the um that the scale and buzz of Killing Eve. 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.480 In fact, we would have been kind of insane had 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.840 we done that, because in the world we live in today, 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:36.519 it's so hard to break through. UM. And I can 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:38.919 talk at some point about the reasons why I think 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.600 this show did break through, but UM, it's a dream 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:44.960 on a business level. You know, first of all, everywhere 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:47.280 we go, whether we're talking to advertisers, or whether we're 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.040 talking to affiliates, or whether we're talking to anyone else 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.959 in our industry. Um, Killing Eve is all anyone wants 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.920 to talk about at the moment. It really is. Eventually, 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:58.760 I try and move people off the topic to talk 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:05.840 about everything else to talk about let's talk, um. So 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:10.239 you know, I think we can't underestimate the impact word. 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:12.480 I mean, let's start with our advertisers. The impact with 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:16.359 that this show has. Um not just in the pricing 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:18.680 that our sales team are able to get now moving 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.000 into a season two with this kind of success behind us, 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:23.359 but the way it opened door opens doors to talk 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:25.760 about other things on our network, the way it opens 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:29.240 doors to talk about other things across the portfolio of 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:33.560 networks is really quite something. UM. So that's why we 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:35.800 took the business decision to put season two of Killing 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.760 Eve not just on BBC America but also on AMC. 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:43.240 We get amazing pricing for season two. Um So, the 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:48.360 value to the business in very transactional ways is calculable 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:52.760 and big. The value to the business in other ways, 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:56.200 maybe softer ways, um is every bit as big, if 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.080 not bigger. It's a calling card people want to come 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:01.200 to a network that how a show like that. Creative 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:03.520 people want to work with you. Creative people are interested 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:08.480 now in coming to BBC America and through that open 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:12.240 the door to a m C, BBC America, I f C, Sundance, 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:16.560 the whole entertainment group. Um So, the ability that we 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:22.840 all have to create amazing partnerships with our affiliate, our 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:26.800 advertising and our creative constituents with a show like this 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:31.040 is really something, and I think probably on the most 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:37.680 sort of mega business level. I think the the stamp 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:42.120 that this show has in continuing to mark AMC Networks 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:44.840 as a company that punches above its weight and as 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:49.520 a company that has this really quite phenomenal batting average 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.720 in the premium scripted world is again something that I 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:57.520 think speaks profoundly and deeply to our investment community, UM, 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:02.159 and to other kinds of business stakeholders. It's important that 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:05.120 even in a world of five shows, and even in 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:08.760 a world where there's more appreciation for niche than ever before, 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:14.560 there's no substitute for something that everybody's talking about. I 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:18.400 think there's no substitute for something that becomes a true 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.880 cultural conversation point. I think that's that's the holy grail. 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:24.840 I think that's what every platform, every business, big or small, 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.440 is looking for, and I think the Killing Eve is 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:29.880 the poster child for that right now. So we don't 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.760 take that for granted, we don't take that lightly. UM. 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:36.200 We celebrate it. We celebrate it with some neurosis because 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:39.839 that's our that's our character and our makeup. Everybody knows 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.240 Season two is often hard, and we want to find 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:45.400 the next one. We want to find the next Killing Eve. UM. 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:48.880 So yeah, I think I think that that kind of 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:52.279 the kind of cultural currency that a show like Killing 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:57.080 Eve has is I think the fuel that can really 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:01.240 sort of inspire a new chapter if that's not too 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:05.200 ambitious an aspiration from it, but it's very it's very meaningful. 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.400 Is that a when you have success like that, when 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:12.200 it is you know, it is hard to bring it 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:13.960 for anything to break out. It is hard to get 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:16.800 attention for shows. When you have a success like that, 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:19.920 that is a sleeper I would imagine just for your staff, 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:22.240 for the organization. It's such a lift you know it 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.960 can still happen. It's actually wonderful, and thank you for 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.760 bringing that up because it's it's actually on a personal level. 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:30.880 One of the most fulfilling things is to see a 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:34.520 team that slogs day in, day out in a world 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.240 where you know, we're also aware of the challenge of 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:40.880 how many shows there are UM and how fragmented our 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:44.839 industry is, and how hard it is to UM to 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.839 get the attention of an audience to tune in UM. 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:49.800 So when you have something like this like killing You, 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:53.400 that breaks through, I think the elation, the potency, the 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:58.600 pride UH and the sheer sort of joy and commitments 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:02.600 that doubles back. I think from from the team UM 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.960 into the work that they do is is something you 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.880 can't bottle. It's actually really extraordinary. There have been many 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:15.720 cupcakes celebrations last year. Absolutely what is when you decided 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:18.520 to put to do a simulcast on AMC and BBC 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.680 America of Killing You for season two. What is the 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.559 What were the calculations that you looked at in terms 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:28.880 of in terms of deciding whether you know, obviously there 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:31.520 there was a potential to funnel more audience to BBC 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.240 America or did you think that with this kind of 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:36.000 buzz it would be better to give it a just 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:40.880 a wider platform. Yeah. The philosophy behind putting Killing Evan 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:42.680 a m C as one is BBC Mico is to 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.360 use a m C simply as a marketing platform for 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:49.120 the show. We believe this show has um the ability 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:56.120 to clearly have connected culturally with fans, with critics, with 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.119 so many people in such a fizzy kind of way. 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:04.040 We're so thinking it has the storytelling d n A, 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:08.520 the big swings in terms of its entertainment quotient to 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:11.880 potentially connect with a really broad audience and a broad 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:15.560 audience that a platform like BBC America, even though it can, 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:17.920 you know, with Doctor Who and at times with Natural 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.000 History programming, reach a big audience, it's just not as 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.720 distributed as a m C, and it doesn't have a 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.560 show like The Walking Dead that we can use as 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:30.760 a promotional platform um to promote to Killing Eve from 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.040 I mean, of course we could promote from Walking Dead 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.840 to BBC America, and indeed we do, but to promote 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.800 it's always stronger to promote from Walking Dead to Killing 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.680 Eve on that same platform, partly because, as they say, 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.000 don't go anywhere exactly, and partly because some of those 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.319 people watching Walking Dead just don't get BBC America. It's 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:50.560 not as it's not as broadly distributed as a m 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:54.160 C A, which is, you know, distributed everywhere you have cable. 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:58.040 So um. So the calculation was really that we believe 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:00.400 that this show had proven that it had the ability 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:03.120 to connect in a really quite stunning and extraordinary way. 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:07.960 Um and it actually connects with a bigger point of 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:10.400 view that we have that I have actually in one 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.720 of the exciting things I feel about how the opportunity 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:17.120 is m with a new structure that puts these four 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:21.400 networks together is at a MC networks is the ability 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:25.760 to really understand how and where our audiences between the 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:29.360 four bran brands overlap, and how and where they're different, 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:34.400 and where we think there's opportunity to move shows from 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.280 one network to another because we don't think it's duplicative. 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:39.920 We actually think it's just additive. We'll be doing a 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.280 lot more than that, and we will also be promoting 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.640 a lot more across from one network to another. And 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:47.760 the only reason we can really do this is it's 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:52.400 it's pretty case by case, but it's informed really by 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:57.679 UM the ability to use some quite sophisticated performance marketing 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:00.920 data analytics that we've built in house that allows us 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.199 to really understand for the first time how and where 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:08.280 our audience moves between our different platforms. So I think 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:13.440 as our competitors are bulking up and we remain relatively nimble, 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.640 not on the huge size, not on the huge side 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:21.400 compared to a you know, in large Disney or exactly, 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.040 but the ability I think for us to wrap our 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:28.000 arms as a business around the entire ecosystem of our audience, 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:33.160 understand our audience and understand how and where we can 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:36.000 move shows from one platform to another to speak to 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:40.800 different audiences, I think becomes a really smart way for 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:44.640 us to really align our audiences and maximize our audiences 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.640 and stay sort of nimble and smart and competitive. So 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.000 so only seven percent of our audience across the four 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.680 network percent of our only seven percent of our audience 0:10:55.720 --> 0:11:00.800 watch author networks and only six of our audience watch 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.319 a MC and BBC America, which has would imagine it 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.000 is the biggest duplication. So we think there's a lot 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:11.320 of opportunity to flow shows around between our platforms, informed 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:16.040 by some really quite a forensic understanding and some experimentation. Frankly, 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.560 you know, we'll be trying things as UM. There's a 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:23.040 show called a Discovery of Witches which launched earlier this year, 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:25.040 actually on our streaming services, so it's not just our 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.679 linear platforms, but on Shutter and Sundance Now and also 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:32.520 on AMC Premiere. We launched the show Discovery of Witches. UM. 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:37.720 It's a great show. It's it's um, it's genre, it's 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:39.920 a vampire falls in love with a witch. It has 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.280 Matthew Good. It's sort of posh but also broad. It's beautiful, 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.360 it's shot around the world and but lots of it 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.359 is an Oxford. It's just gorgeous. Anyway, it did extraordinarily 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:49.840 well on these platforms that we launched it on these 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:53.920 streaming platforms and an AMC premiere. UM, so we then thought, well, 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.600 maybe it actually can migrate to linear, so we're airing 0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:01.960 it after Klive on both BBC A and see confidence 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:04.280 in the show. Yeah, and it all comes down to 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:06.920 content that we believe in, content that we believe really 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.160 has the sort of the legs to connect, and you 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:13.160 saw that it has real traction exactly exactly, So we'll say, 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.040 you know, we'll learn as we go. UM. So let's 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.360 talk about your new role you were promoted in. You 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.280 had been running BBC America. Before that, you ran Sundance 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.800 and in November you were promoted to a group role 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:28.640 overseeing AMC, BBC America, i f C and Sundance TV. 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.640 You started to answer some of my questions, but tell 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:34.719 us what is what would you say are the benefits 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:39.880 of that structure for running these distinct programming brands at 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:43.240 this kind of crazy time in the programming world. Yeah. 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:45.760 I think the main one really is the ability to 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:50.080 understand audience across the ecosystem of brands that we have 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:54.280 and to program accordingly. Um. And that will means shifting 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:59.880 content around somewhat while still absolutely retaining the discrete brand 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.720 value programming reach that our different platforms have. You know, 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:08.199 our affiliates, our advertisers, and our viewers all know our brands. 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:10.640 You know, We don't have twenty five brands in our company. 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.640 We have sort of a handful of really well curated, 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.280 really deep, very meaningful brands, all of which do something 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.480 quite original, but all of which have these interesting intersection 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.400 points with each other. So the ability to sort of 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.720 be to see it as a sort of complex puzzle 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.920 but a cohesive whole. I think it is something that's 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:32.439 really exciting, and I think that the teams that are 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:36.560 coming together from the different for networks are finding that 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:41.480 very exciting as well as I think really enjoying um 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:48.080 uncovering talent internally the previously squirreled away in different parts. 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:49.960 The ability, I think to sort of pull together a 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:51.960 team of people, so the management piece of it, and 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:55.360 to pull together a group of people to work together 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.440 in new ways who haven't previously worked together, to create 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:03.520 a culture which is steal around understanding our brands, knowing 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:05.680 the value of our brands, what they mean, their brands 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:07.959 that have a lot of equity behind them, and also 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:10.840 encouraging people to not be siloed by brand, but to 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.080 think in a sort of portfolio way require some new muscles. 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.320 I think is really really interesting and I think people 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.280 are very much enjoying. I think actually all humans kind 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.160 of enjoy both being passionate about certain things, but also 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.920 then having a sense of the bigger interconnectedness and how 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:28.520 to work across something bigger, and particularly in the business 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:30.880 reality of today, we sort of have to. But I 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:32.960 think it's a challenge that everyone's up for and writing 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:36.680 to UM, So yeah, it's sort of it's a fascinating 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:40.520 moment and a really interesting moment to take what we 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:46.680 have and create sort of new patterns from it. UM. 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:48.320 And then I think, you know, the other thing I 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.880 think that's a real advantage of us being organized in 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.160 this new way is you know, David Madden now overseas 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:57.440 programming for all four of the networks that I oversee, 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.800 and for him, the ability and his team, the ability 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:06.960 to be in the creative community buying full four of 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.480 these networks is great. And four networks that all have, 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.920 as I said, at distinct point of yeah, and a 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:16.760 real I would say, sort of creative energy in different 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.040 ways about all of them. They've all done things that 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.760 sort of stand out, you know, if not as huge 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.360 on the smaller networks, and certainly as a very distinctive 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:29.160 for original, very risk taking UM so there's definite advantage 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:31.960 there and has the I would imagine that the feedback 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.840 from the creative community allowing you to streamline the ability 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.760 to pitch i f C in Sundance and BBC and 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.280 AMC in one fell swoop. I imagine that would be 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:43.640 that would be welcomed again at a time when people 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.240 all I hear from people is that they're overwhelmed with 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.080 the number of choices, even the number of choices of 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:51.520 you know, where am I going to shop my comedy? Totally? 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.520 I mean, I think I think comedy probably is slightly different. 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.920 It's a slightly nippy Aaronson who's been overseeing programming for 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:00.800 for i f C for a while. Our reports into 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:03.200 David Madden, but he's sort of pretty much in his 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:06.880 area doing his thing. With comedy tends to be just 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.440 a different bunch of writers, different people you're talking to, 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:11.920 certainly with the scripted networks. I think it is a 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.400 real advantage. I think it's also an advantage of just 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.040 brag for a moment for us to have David Madman 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:21.000 the seat. I think he's so beloved in the community, goods, 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.320 such a good and so so good at what he does. 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:27.160 Um that I love having his expertise now across all 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.240 four of the networks. I think he's I think it's 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:31.840 one of our He's one of our weapons for sure. 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:36.440 And you talked a lot about tracking audience and understanding audience. 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:40.920 How much would you say, UM, you invest as a 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:45.960 company in in understanding and that's sort of dissecting the 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:47.920 audience that you have. I would imagine that that's a 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:52.680 growing expenditure and area of focus for you. Yeah. Absolutely, 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:56.840 I mean more and law. So for several years now, 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:02.800 we've had a business intelligence department internal run by UM, 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:07.240 an incredibly clever guy called Vitality seven and his team, 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:11.800 and he's been building a number of proprietary products, some 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.600 of which are very much focused on the advertising world, 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:19.680 and I would say a best in class planning tool 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:22.399 called Aurora that we have on the odd side. Uh. 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:24.960 And then he's been working for the last three or 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:29.360 four years quite intensely with Linda Shupac, who's our wonderful 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:34.160 head of marketing, on some performance marketing and predictive analytical 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:38.200 tools that really help us understand who to target, how 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.520 to target, how to measure the targeting as we're going 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:46.880 through a campaign. UM and then how to post mortem 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:49.880 um and underneath all of that, how to have some 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:55.280 real forensic understanding of who our audiences are, what they're consuming, 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.520 how they're moving around our platforms. So it's you know, 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:00.639 and then we also have some tools is developed that 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:03.920 are super sophisticated. Is rolling out the two point O 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:07.439 version of a tool we call internally pat which is 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:11.000 about how we place promos and how we understand who 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.440 they connect with, and how we can best use the 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.600 inventory we have on our air for promotion to both 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:22.520 optimize our linear business and build to our future businesses. 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:24.679 So how to promote a n C premiere, how to 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:27.879 promote to our subscription services to Shutter, Sundance Now and 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.760 now Acorn and U n C. So we're really looking 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:33.359 at how we can think, if you like, philosophically about 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.479 our linear platforms as these incredibly successful platforms that are 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.040 still big but are the engine of the company. They 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.800 are the engine of the company entirely. But how we 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:46.040 can use how we can use the sort of incumbency 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:50.040 we have and the strength of that that legacy platform 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.359 to help build our new businesses. How we can promote 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:54.080 to our gaming how we can promote to any sort 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:58.360 of comic book activity we're doing so so it's exciting 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:02.399 a lot of tools. How much do you when you program, 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:06.119 how much do you think about programming for that live 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:10.399 linear audience versus programming to somebody who's gonna either record 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:12.520 a bunch of episodes and wait or go to go 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:16.000 to your AMC Premier. Is your subscription service that allows 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:19.600 people you know early access two shows or or to 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:23.280 an authenticated platform. Is that do you calculate that in 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.640 your just terms of the timing and how you when 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:28.159 you launch shows, when you roll them out? So is 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:33.880 your question more around slots, timing, content acquisition or around 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:38.720 the actual creative we are looking for the nature of 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.760 the storytelling. Yeah, that I would say both. Actually, it's 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:46.199 a really interesting question. Um. We tend to juggle pretty 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:51.679 much between our Lidea platforms and the slots that we 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:56.240 need in order to both retain audiences, be vital with 0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:00.719 enough original content fit into the upper schedule that our 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:04.600 advertisers need. Um, so we're pro programming for that. On 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:10.720 the linear side, we're increasingly also folding in the content 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:18.760 acquisition needs for AMC Premiere. So um, they're differentiated offering 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.439 tends to be around early content and binge able content, 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:26.160 and obviously add free content. So it's a little checkerboard 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.919 right now. It's sort of one or a combination of 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:33.760 those three things that will be their differentiator. Sometimes it's early, 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:38.720 sometimes it's not because of production schedules. Um Sometimes it's 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:43.719 possible to binge an entire season prior to us launching it. 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:49.720 Sometimes we choose not to because with certain shows there's 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:54.840 a big conversation with the writers and the show runners 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:59.240 around spoilers. So it's an interesting moment where we're both 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:03.640 protecting linear and the linear experience and the linear numbers 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:08.040 and at the same time fueling and driving new business models. 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:12.359 It's fascinating. I think we're learning a lot right um 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.560 in and the kind of engrossing dramas that your channels 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:17.919 that you certainly am C and Sundayans and BBC are 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:21.360 known for. You know, I think it's there's no question 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.600 that the audience has spoken and that there is a 0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:27.399 real you know, there's almost a you know, there's a 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:30.360 generation almost that has been trained now to watch those 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:34.000 kinds of shows, particularly without commercials. Is that on the 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:37.600 linear side, is the need to service that advertising. Is 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:41.160 that becoming you know, is that becoming a bigger hardship 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:43.320 for you in terms of and are you looking at 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:46.399 any potential models to kind of limit the number of 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:50.720 interruptions or get around that? Yeah, yeah, I mean that. 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:55.399 You know. That's why something like cleave popping and jumping 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:59.840 out in a AD supported environment is sort of remarkable, 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:02.520 the numbers that continue to be there in spite of 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:04.320 the fact that the headlines are written or sort of 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:09.919 about slippage, but the continued primacy of of the Walking 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:14.120 Dead in cable. UM. We do think that there are 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:18.600 certain things in a linear environment that has a necessity 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:21.919 of having ads UM, there are certain storytelling ingredients that 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:23.840 need to be there. I think it needs to have 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:28.280 big swings, It needs to have um cliffhangers built in, 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:30.280 not just at the end of an episode, but equally 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:33.760 at acts. I actually think there's something about the craft 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:36.680 of that kind of TV writing that can get a 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:40.320 little bit lost, frankly in the amorphous nous of a 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:43.439 season being dropped and there being no necessity to the 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:48.000 shaped Yeah yeah, twelve one, So there's no need for 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:50.080 the cliffangers, There's no need for that sort of structure. 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:52.439 I mean, I think the Yeah and Breaking Bad was 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:58.800 probably the the to me, the sort of the absolute 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:01.000 sort of perfection of the form, if you like. But 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:02.639 I think a lot of sitcoms too, are written in 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:07.000 such a smart way that have always been UM very 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:11.320 much informed by the US form of television, which has 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:13.199 breaks in it. So I think a lot of our 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:17.040 content is formed in a way where we believe there's 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:19.880 a propulsion to it and a certain kind of high 0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:25.280 entertainment value to UM to the shows that it will 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:28.280 pull people through the forming watch in which they watch it. 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:31.119 A m C premiere is really our first to market 0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:36.080 experiment within our m v P D ecosystem of presenting 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:38.879