1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: High Strange is released every Friday and brought to you 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: absolutely free, but for ad free listening, exclusive bonuses, and 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: early access to episodes, subscribe to tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus 4 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: dot com or on Apple podcasts. The views and opinions 5 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast 6 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: author or individuals participating in the podcast, and do not 7 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: represent those of iHeartRadio, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. This 8 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: podcast also contains subject matter which may not be suitable 9 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: for everyone. 10 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised. 11 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 3: News articles once again mentioned the talk about alien spacecraft, 12 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 3: and subsequent articles in national magazines quoted unnamed sources about 13 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 3: things of alien origin flying in Nevada. 14 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 4: Nowhere, like a Shiroco in the desert. He was in silhouette. 15 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 4: He comes forward on the news and says, we are 16 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 4: reverse engineering alien spacecraft at a place called Area fifty one, 17 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 4: which you haven't heard about, but it's out there in 18 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 4: the Nevada desert, nine flying saucers. And I was part 19 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 4: of that program. And now I'm worried about my life. 20 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 4: I feel a threat to my personal safety. That's my story. 21 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 5: That's it. 22 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 2: Don The story of Bob Blazar will never go quietly. 23 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: He described a job, not a moment in the sky, 24 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: but a workplace, a schedule, a commute, the chain of command, 25 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: he said, or reverse engineering alien spacecraft at a place 26 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: you've never heard of. That place was Area fifty one. 27 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 6: He says. 28 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 3: He was hired to work at an area called S four. 29 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 3: At S four, he says, are flying saucers, technology that 30 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 3: is seemingly beyond human capability, and overnight. 31 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: A classified military test site became a cultural obsession. 32 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 3: Lazar's story is by any standards, fantastic. 33 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 7: He says. 34 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 3: He's telling it in order to protect himself. 35 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 4: So George Knapp was like, who is this? Lazar guide? 36 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 4: His news people were like, is this true? In this 37 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 4: I don't know. I'm going to find out. 38 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: This week we've heard the contention of UFO researchers that 39 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 3: there's a secret government within our government. It's a chilling 40 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 3: scenario with worldwide implications that may have its roots right here. 41 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 2: EREA fifty one. 42 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 3: That mysterious corner of the Nevada test site is no 43 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 3: longer much of a secret. The fact that secret of 44 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 3: things go on here is a given even to the 45 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 3: Soviets who make daily spy flights over the facility to 46 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 3: take a peek at what's going on. 47 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: The question was not just is this true? It was 48 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: who is this guy? 49 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 4: Very polarizing figure. If people look into the UFO world, 50 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 4: can we believe him? 51 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 5: Can we not? Does he have a shorted past? Is 52 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 5: he a liar? 53 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: If Lezaara is lying, it's an extraordinary line. And if 54 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: he's telling the truth, it's one of the most important 55 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: revelations in human history. 56 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 2: There is no middle ground. 57 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 5: I was thirteen years old. 58 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 4: Then to hear on the radio Bob Tzar's voice and 59 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 4: George Knapp interviewing him, and that was like my gateway drug. 60 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 5: That's where my curiosity got weaponized. 61 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 3: Strange stories of lights in the night sky. No one 62 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 3: who's worked a Dreamland has ever publicly acknowledged what so 63 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 3: many people have suspected for years, that alien technology is 64 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 3: being tested and then avaded desert. 65 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 6: It's a very interesting building. 66 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 8: It's got a slope of probably about thirty degrees, which 67 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 8: are hangar doors, nine flying saucers, flying discs of extraterrestrial origin. 68 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 6: It's there. I saw it. This came from somewhere else. 69 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 8: As a bizarre as it is to believe I know 70 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 8: what the current state of the art is and physics, 71 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 8: and it can't be done. 72 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 3: He says he was never told exactly what he'd be 73 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 3: working on, but figured it had something to do with 74 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 3: advanced propulsion. On his first day, he was told to 75 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 3: read a series of briefings that immediately realized how advanced 76 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 3: the propulsion was. 77 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 4: You're like, okay, well is this possibly true. The one 78 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 4: thing he said that blew my mind was the way 79 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 4: Bob Azar described the propulsion system. 80 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 6: They run gravity amplifiers. 81 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 8: There's no physical hookup between any of the systems in there. 82 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 8: They use gravity as a wave, using wave guides like microwaves. 83 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 8: Traveling these distances does require a level of technology that 84 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 8: man has not yet achieved, but it has nothing to 85 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 8: do with flying in a linear mode. Near the beat 86 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 8: of light, we can distort the space time and in 87 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 8: turn the distance between the point where we are and 88 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 8: the point where we want to be. 89 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: Blazaarre doesn't talk like a storyteller. He talks like someone 90 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: describing a machine. Gravity amplifiers, non reactionary propulsion. I mean, 91 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: are they just cool buzzwords or does he actually know 92 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: what he's talking about? 93 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 5: When you have a craft is propelled by something. 94 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 4: Most things are reactionary propulsion rockets to roller skates. You 95 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 4: push something out the back, you move forward. The thing 96 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 4: that Lazarre said publicly that really struck me. He said, 97 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 4: this is a non reactionary PU system. You can move 98 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 4: through time and space. You can move somewhere without pushing 99 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 4: something out the back. And I'm like, what does that mean. 100 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 4: It's like you push your fist into a bed, and 101 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 4: you've got a bowling ball on that bed, and the 102 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 4: bowling ball falls into the divot where you put your fist, 103 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 4: falling into place. If what he said is true, then 104 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 4: the distance between stars and galaxies no longer matters. Because 105 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 4: the big argument was, of course there's life out there 106 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 4: in the university. If you had a propulsion system that 107 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 4: negated the entire dilemma you have of distance, time and space, 108 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 4: then there's no boundary that's stopping contact from other civilizations. 109 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 4: So all these things people see disks in the sky 110 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 4: for thousands of years. 111 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 5: Well, there's a possibility could be true. 112 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 4: So first time I heard it explained in a way 113 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 4: that made sense from a point of physics, and I thought, 114 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 4: holy shit. If what he saying is true, then distance 115 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 4: doesn't matter. And if that's true, dude, I got to find. 116 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 8: Out the hardware and technology I was exposed to should 117 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 8: be placed in the proper hands of the scientific community. 118 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 6: There is physical evidence. 119 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 8: Which proves that there is life elsewhere, and that at 120 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 8: least one form of that life has been here. 121 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: Lazarre says he worked at S four south of Groome Lake, 122 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: inside hangers built into the desert. Altogether, he claims to 123 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: have seen nine craft, all different, all beyond human capability. 124 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 4: What Bob Lazar said, then it is imperative that people 125 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 4: try to understand what he meant by that and try 126 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 4: to figure out for thisselves if he is worthy of 127 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 4: your trust. 128 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 2: And then the story fractures. 129 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 4: When he came forward, whether you believe it or not, 130 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 4: the idea was that he he was worried about his 131 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 4: safety and as well being. I know everybody who's with 132 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 4: him at that time, they don't even like each other anymore. 133 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 4: Some of them they don't get along. They all agree 134 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 4: on one thing. What Bob said happened happened. He was 135 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 4: temporarily employed trying to reverse engineer these UFOs. Immediately when 136 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 4: he came forward, George Knap tried to dig into these 137 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 4: claims and say, what can I prove what is real? 138 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 5: What is not real? 139 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: Schools deny his education, agencies deny as employment records just disappear. 140 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 3: Checking out Lazar's credentials proved to be a difficult task. 141 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 3: He says he earned degrees in physics and electronics, but 142 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 3: the schools we contacted say they've never heard of him. 143 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 3: He also said he worked as a physicist at Los 144 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 3: Alamo's National Lab, where he experimented with one of the 145 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 3: world's largest particle beam accelerators, a half mile long behemoth 146 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 3: capable of generating seven hundred million volts. 147 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 4: Very clearly worked at Los Alamos, because guess why George 148 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 4: Knapp went there bob led him in. 149 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 5: There's video of that. 150 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 3: Los Alamos officials told us they had no records of 151 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 3: a Robert Lazar ever working there. They were either mistaken 152 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 3: or were lying. A nineteen eighty two phone book from 153 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 3: the lab lists Lazar right there among the other scientists 154 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 3: and technicians. A nineteen eighty two clipping from the Los 155 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 3: Alamos newspaper profiled Lazarre and his interest in jet cars. 156 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 3: It too mentioned his employment at the lab as a physicist. 157 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: At the same time, physical evidence refuses to cooperate with 158 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: that denial. Phone books, newspaper clippings, actual video footage from 159 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: Los Alamos. This is where the Bob Lazar story becomes 160 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: impossible to hold together in a clean way. 161 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 4: Obviously worked at Los Alamos. Why did they tell George 162 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 4: Knapp that he didn't work there? Never worked there? 163 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 5: They don't know what he's talking about. 164 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 3: We called Los Alamos again. An exasperated official told us 165 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 3: he still had no records on Lazarre. EG and G, 166 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 3: which is where Lazarre says he was interviewed for the 167 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 3: job at S four, also has no records. It's as 168 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 3: if someone has made him disappear. 169 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 6: Well, they're trying to make me a non person. 170 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 8: They explain, you called where, well, the schools that I 171 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 8: went to, the hospital that was born at past job, 172 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 8: and essentially nothing comes up with my name in it. 173 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 3: He smiles, but out of futility, knowing the whole thing 174 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 3: must sound ridiculous. According to Lazarre, his employer was the 175 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 3: United States Navy. He says he and other government employees 176 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 3: would gather near EG and G flight to Groom Lake. 177 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 3: Very few people would get into a bus with blacked 178 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 3: out or no windows and drive to S four. It 179 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 3: took a while, Azar says before he actually saw one 180 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 3: of the flying discs. However, there were hints everywhere. 181 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 8: They had a poster and it looked like a commercial poster, 182 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 8: almost like it was lithographed and you could buy it 183 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 8: at a kmart or something. But they were all over 184 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 8: the place, and it had the disc that I coined 185 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 8: the term the sport Model. 186 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 3: The sport model his name for the craft stashed in 187 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 3: the desert. 188 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 6: When I was let in. 189 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 8: It was the first time I saw the Sport Model 190 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 8: in the hangar, sitting down, and I was told they 191 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 8: could have walked me in the front door, but they 192 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 8: purposely wanted to walk me by it. I was still 193 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 8: not to say anything and just keep my eyes forward 194 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 8: and walk past the disk into the office area. As 195 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 8: I went by it, I just kind of stuck my 196 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 8: hands on it, just to run it alongside the thing. 197 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 8: And after that I got to see it. I actually 198 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 8: left off the ground and operate. The hangars are all 199 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 8: connected together and there are large bay doors between each one, 200 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 8: and there were nine total that I saw, each one 201 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 8: being different. 202 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 3: Security it asked four was oppressive, Lazarre says, and his 203 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 3: superiors used fear and intimidation almost as a brainwashing tool. 204 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 6: Did everything but physically hurt me. Put a gun gear. 205 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 8: Head, Yeah, guards there with them, sixteens and guys slamming 206 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 8: their finger into my chest, screaming in my ear, some 207 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 8: people pointing weapons at me. 208 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 6: It's not a good place to work. 209 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: Either he lied about parts of his background or someone 210 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: tried very hard to erase him. 211 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 8: Paul, I've just presented to you is true, and the 212 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 8: government is keeping this a secret. How can I make 213 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 8: a video telling you about it? Well, the bottom line 214 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 8: is if there are any repercussis from making this video, well, 215 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 8: it simply confirm that what I told you is true. 216 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 6: So what you do with this information is up to you. 217 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 8: What's going on up there could be the most important 218 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 8: event in history. You're talking about contact, physical physical contact 219 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 8: and proof from another system, another planet, another intelligence. That's 220 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 8: got to be the biggest event in history period. I 221 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,319 Speaker 8: am telling the truth. I've tried to prove that. 222 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 2: Not every detail is perfect. 223 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:47,239 Speaker 1: So the question becomes, does one false truth or unresolved 224 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: mystery collapse this story? 225 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: Altogether? 226 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 9: We have people ostensibly with credentials who are frauds. And 227 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 9: who have blommed on to pop culture. Robert Scott Lazarre, 228 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 9: supposedly a nuclear physicist with a master's and physics from MIT, 229 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 9: a master in electronics from cal Tech, who supposedly worked 230 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 9: at Area fifty one back engineering flying saucers. I did 231 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 9: a lot of checking on Bob. I tried to meet 232 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 9: with them twice. I was supposed to on one occasion, 233 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 9: and he didn't go along. I checked at MIT, I 234 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 9: checked at cal Tech. Neither one ever heard of him. Well, 235 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 9: but the government wiped his records clean. As the response. 236 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 9: I talked to the legal counsel at MIT. 237 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 7: No way to do that. 238 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 2: I talked with the guy who has the. 239 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 9: Degrees, the commencement lists and all that sort of thing. 240 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 9: No mention of Lazarre. None of the yearbooks show Lazar 241 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 9: for a master's degree. You need a thesis. I talked 242 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 9: to the guy who holds those No Lazarre item there. 243 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 9: And the story goes on and on beyond that, and 244 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 9: I got people telling me, well, I don't see why 245 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 9: you don't believe him. He seemed so sincere. Sincerity is 246 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 9: not a check on truth. 247 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: So if you go back in his history and he 248 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: talks about going to college. There's no record of him 249 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: being at this college. How is that? So, what is 250 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: the explanation for that? 251 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 4: So let's open this up so your audience understands. So 252 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 4: now we're going to like one of the points of contention. 253 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 4: One of the first things George Knapp couldn't confirm was 254 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 4: Bob Azar's education history. There are certain things he couldn't 255 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 4: ever prove. Doesn't mean they didn't happen, just George couldn't 256 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 4: prove him so in the first report, because I cannot 257 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 4: verify his claimed educational roles what he said that he had. 258 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 4: So it leaves you with one of three options. Either 259 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 4: Bob a Zart lied about his educational history. That doesn't 260 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 4: negate the fact that he did work at Los Alamos, 261 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 4: and doesn't negate the fact of what we now know 262 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 4: about his employment out at the test range area fifty one. 263 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 4: That's version one. Okay, I'll accept that. If that's true. 264 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 4: Already you've got one thing cool. Does it make the 265 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 4: difference for me? It's a part of it. Maybe I 266 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 4: just want to know he's he a liar? What is 267 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 4: the value of that to you? Maybe you're trying to 268 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 4: figure out if he's a liar. 269 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: Well, it's like if you're on trial and this person 270 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: had a history of lying about this, the defense would use. 271 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 5: That that's evidence. You know, you look at the idea 272 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 5: of well, what's the other options. 273 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 4: The other option is that back in the eighties or 274 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 4: eighty nine, when things were not as digital as they 275 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 4: are now, could you and would you scrub elements of 276 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 4: his educational background? 277 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 5: Okay, I could see some of that happening. So then 278 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 5: the third option is. 279 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 4: What if Bob Blazar hasn't told us everything? What if 280 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 4: he did have education at those schools he claimed, but 281 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 4: he was maybe protecting a little bit the exact nature 282 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 4: of that education. That's something that maybe Bob can talk 283 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 4: about if he ever wants to. But that's a third 284 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 4: option and want people to keep on the table. When 285 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 4: you bring up one aspect of the Bob Blazar case 286 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 4: that is on your mind, you have to assign it 287 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 4: a value, like how important is that if we already 288 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 4: know he worked at Area fifty one and we have 289 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 4: some proof of that, like I have people that testified 290 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 4: they saw him there, So then you have to assign 291 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 4: a value to that. How much value does that one 292 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 4: thing have you? It gave you three possibilities. Maybe we 293 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 4: don't know the full story. 294 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:00,719 Speaker 5: That's how I would write the ship for you. 295 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 4: The educational background of Bob Bazaar is that maybe there's 296 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 4: something that we don't fully understand yet, or he's lying, 297 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 4: or they scribed it a sign of value to that. 298 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 4: Just keep an open mind. If I found out he 299 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 4: was lying, I would have already said so, and I could. 300 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: Swallow the pill that if he came forward and said, hey, man, 301 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: I lie about this, think he's more credible if he 302 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: told me though, But just to. 303 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 4: Be fundamentally clear, my understanding, like my belief, I guess 304 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 4: my direct knowledge is that Bob Azar is telling you 305 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 4: how it is, and there's probably more to hear from him. 306 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 4: The other thing I think you should consider, if there's 307 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 4: tons of evidence in the favor of Bob having experienced 308 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 4: what he said he did. We can't dismiss all of 309 00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 4: that based upon a few things that are unlooped for you. 310 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 4: Don't discount there is a mountain of evidence. The other 311 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 4: thing you can reconcile is that it is possible that 312 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 4: someone like Bob Bazaar is the perfect person to bring 313 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 4: into a program Rocket guy. He's a pirate. If you 314 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 4: want to this credit, Bob, you can do it. 315 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: The bottom line is some things add up, some things 316 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: do not, and there's no one explanation that covers all 317 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: of it, at least in a clean way. So instead 318 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: of arguing about Bob Blazar as a person, let's widen 319 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: the frame. The deeper question is about how we decide 320 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: what counts as knowledge, what do we accept as evidence, 321 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: and how much uncertainty are we willing to take before 322 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: we stop looking. 323 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 10: More than a dozen agents serving federal search warrants Tatan is. 324 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 11: Now chief investigator George Knapp now with the exclusive story. 325 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 7: Secrecy has always been paramount. 326 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 3: That Area fifty one, a once obscure outpost in then 327 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 3: about a desert that might be the world's best known 328 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 3: secret base. 329 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 4: He was pulled into court in crazy ways, pulled into 330 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 4: court for setting up a security system for a brothel. 331 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 4: Bob had a crazy life. And when you talk about 332 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 4: discrediting the messenger so that you can discredit the message, 333 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 4: that's where it gets sticky. Just because you can discredit 334 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 4: somebody from what a moral standpoint, doesn't mean what they're 335 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 4: saying ain't true. You should be disturbed by certain lacks 336 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 4: of information in the Bob Blazar report, in what he 337 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 4: has reported to us, it would make logical sense for 338 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 4: you to be a little bit like, well, wait a second, there, 339 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 4: Wait a second there. I was trying to catch Bob 340 00:20:54,080 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 4: Bazar and a lie absolutely every day from my own knowledge, 341 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 4: and I'm sorry to report bizarre has never ever been disingenuously, 342 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 4: not even disingenuous. 343 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 5: You gave me acceit to everything. 344 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 2: Thirty years ago. 345 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 11: Today, KLAS aired a live interview with an anonymous man 346 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 11: who made some really astonishing claims. He alleged that the 347 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 11: US military was secretly studying alien technology out of the 348 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,360 Speaker 11: Nevada Desert area fifty one. 349 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 7: A lot has. 350 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 10: Changed in the decades since Bob Blazar first told this 351 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 10: wild story. The Pentagon recently admitted that it really has 352 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 10: been secretly studying UFOs, and then it wanted to figure 353 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 10: out and duplicate that technology. 354 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:45,479 Speaker 7: Pentagon officials reluctantly admitted to The New York Times that 355 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 7: the military has secretly studied UFO incidents in parts of 356 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 7: it might figure out the technology. 357 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 4: It is what it is, But ultimately I wasn't there. 358 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 4: I don't know for a fact that everything he saw 359 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 4: was what he thinks it was the mysterious case of 360 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 4: Bob Blazar. He's a hell of a guy, a really 361 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 4: good person, and that's more important to me than flying saucers. 362 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: The bottom line is some things add up, some things 363 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: do not, and there's no one explanation that covers all 364 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: of it, at least in a clean way. So instead 365 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: of arguing about Bob Blazar as a person, let's widen 366 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: the frame. The deeper question is about how we decide 367 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: what counts as knowledge, what do we accept as evidence, 368 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: and how much uncertainty are we willing to take before 369 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: we stop looking To help do that, I wanted to 370 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: bring in two minds who approached this problem from a 371 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: very different angle, not as whistleblowers or journalists, but as thinkers, 372 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: scientists who are less interested in answers than in frameworks. 373 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: That brings us to Gary Nolan, who you heard briefly 374 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: in episode one in the Legendary Jacques Valet. 375 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 12: It's like the end of that lessons and now you 376 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 12: need to get a job, and you need to get money, 377 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:46,880 Speaker 12: and you get to invest in structures, which is what 378 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 12: doctor Nolan is leading. And that's possible now because I 379 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 12: think in part because of people like me writing those books, 380 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 12: and those books getting attention through the web. On a 381 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 12: number of people know the basic facts, you know, the 382 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 12: basic data, and a number of people have started to 383 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 12: do their own investigations. And if you have a computer today, 384 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 12: you can build a professional level catalog and you can 385 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 12: do your own statistics. If you're no statistics, you know, 386 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 12: you don't need to wait for somebody to give you 387 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 12: authorization to do that. That has changed the audience. It's 388 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 12: made it a lot larger, and it has changed the 389 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 12: level of professionalism that you can apply to them. The 390 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 12: mystery goes through phases, and every phase is taken up 391 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 12: by the media and then forgotten and then reboard some 392 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,160 Speaker 12: other way. So I've seen all these different waves of 393 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 12: of interest along the way. Then it became international. Today 394 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 12: most of the information suddenly that I get or the 395 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 12: people here get is through the web. Now everybody can 396 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 12: be in contact know what's going on in other countries. 397 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 12: I think we're at a point of major transition. 398 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 13: You know. 399 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 12: The media has driven that. You know, once you have television, 400 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 12: then people have access to a larger audience. Before it 401 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 12: was just radio interviews, you know, once in a while, 402 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 12: and they will only happen when there was some event. 403 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 12: Journalists are not going to be interested in the subject 404 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 12: where there is no breakthrough, when we're still standing here 405 00:25:54,240 --> 00:26:01,199 Speaker 12: with no real answer to the mystery. I'm taking the 406 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 12: time to answer your question because I think that's the 407 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 12: profound question. There isn't one truth. I'm an information scientist, 408 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 12: So what I'm going to do is ask how many 409 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 12: cases like that are there? And I'm going to build 410 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 12: a little catalog of those cases if I can. I'm 411 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 12: going to go talk to the witnesses in the other 412 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 12: cases they are like it. Then I'll try to build 413 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 12: a pattern or a model of what the operation or 414 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 12: what the situation was, and where that person was with 415 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 12: respect to that situation. And I think that's all I 416 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 12: can do. That's the best I can do. 417 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 13: Data is different than evidence. The same data I kind 418 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 13: of a list of numbers. It could be you know 419 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 13: what last year's wine harvest is, or what the output 420 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 13: of the sewage plant was across the United States. 421 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 2: Numbers. 422 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 13: That's just data, right, But contextualize data, at least in science, 423 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 13: in the context of a hypothesis, saying, Okay, here's data 424 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 13: that I've collected around biology. Does the data support in 425 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 13: the context of the question whether or not the hypothesis 426 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 13: is correct. At that level, it starts to become evidence, 427 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 13: and we call it evidence, but it's not Evidence is 428 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,479 Speaker 13: not proof. Evidence is no more proof in biology or 429 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 13: uap UFOs than it is in a courtroom. Evidence is evidence, 430 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 13: and you have a jury of your peers who you 431 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:54,199 Speaker 13: are looking at the evidence and how you the prosecutor 432 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 13: or the defense pitch it different ways of interpreting what 433 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 13: the evidence means. But the evidence truly is just data. 434 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 12: The question is what is the nature of evidence? I mean, 435 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 12: there has to be a framework. It's like in court, 436 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 12: you can have a witness who is telling the truth 437 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 12: about what he saw and he saw a blue car. 438 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 12: Now I'm going to get other witnesses to come forward, 439 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 12: and some of them will be truthful, and they will 440 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 12: have seen a red car. Okay, and they're both telling 441 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 12: the truth as they experienced it at the time. But 442 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 12: at the time the event was confusing. There were many people, 443 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 12: there was blood on the floor, there was an accident, 444 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 12: there was something happening. The police arrived with sirens and 445 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 12: lights and everything else. Ambulances arrived, and everybody got very confused. 446 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 13: If you look in the papers and you read the 447 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 13: actual science of the papers. Biologists and even often physicists 448 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 13: will leave themselves so much diplomatic room to be wrong. 449 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 13: They'll always say it is supportive of the hypothesis. 450 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 7: Do you leave yourself room to be wrong? 451 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 13: Scientists are right today, wrong tomorrow, but right the next day. 452 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 13: You know, so what it is, It's an incremental reinterpretation 453 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 13: of reality. 454 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 12: Reality is a construct of my brain based on my perceptions. 455 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 12: And my perceptions are limited, and they are limited by 456 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 12: my culture. They are biased by you know, my beliefs. 457 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 12: Some people might see the virgin Mary and I'll just 458 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 12: see a light. If you want to go back to 459 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 12: was it real or not? You have to ask that question. 460 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 12: And what do you mean by rail? You know what 461 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 12: I mean? Was there a physical version Mary there? And 462 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 12: if saw? How come only one person saw her? 463 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 13: There's only really one place where proof exists, and that's 464 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 13: in math, because you have set the parameters so tightly. 465 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 13: Usually in a mathematical regime, you've created a sandbox within 466 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 13: which it's either right or wrong. One plus one equals 467 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 13: to always. But we do come eventually to conclusions. Certain 468 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 13: things get accepted as fact because so many people have 469 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 13: looked at it over time. That is like, okay, well, 470 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 13: I don't need to check it again. Every time I've 471 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 13: checked it, and all the things that I do based 472 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 13: on it. 473 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 7: Continue to be true. 474 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 13: So therefore I can proceed as if it was a 475 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 13: formal conclusion. 476 00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 12: And if you dequote it the way I try to 477 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 12: decote those, it says your idea of time is wrong 478 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 12: and your idea of space is wrong. Now I can 479 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 12: introduce you to my own some of my friends in 480 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 12: the physics and you know, in theoly call physics while 481 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 12: telling me the same pain. There is no such thing 482 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 12: as time, There is no such thing as space. Those 483 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 12: are things that our brains and eyes and are constructing 484 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 12: to account for things around us well enough that we 485 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 12: can survive, you know, in this environment for a while. Okay, 486 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 12: that's all there is. But that's not true in terms 487 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 12: of the way the universe is constructed. All those messages, 488 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 12: whether they are overt or you know, more subtle, planted 489 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 12: in the brain or whatever they they are at another 490 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,719 Speaker 12: level that needs to be needs to be decoded. But 491 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 12: you find the same message being told in many different cultures, 492 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 12: in many different ways intependently. You know, the physicists today 493 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 12: are starting to teach that time and space are convenient 494 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 12: valuables to do math about this world, so we can 495 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:30,959 Speaker 12: build the Eiffel Tower. But that's really not the basic 496 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 12: physics is a form of uncertainty, you know, form of 497 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 12: of quanta or something like that. Okay, So physics is 498 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 12: in a crisis because of that. They need to reconcile 499 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 12: with reality the way the way it is, the way 500 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 12: the way we manipulate it. We're facing something that's where 501 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 12: ahead of us, with control of physics that we don't understand, 502 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 12: and control of life, you know, at a level that 503 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 12: we haven't considered yet. To me, the driver is that 504 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 12: this should be an inspiration for us. This is not 505 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 12: a threat, which is why the Air Force wanted to 506 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 12: get out of it, because you know, everything they do 507 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 12: is designed for war. Okay, this is not a war. 508 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 12: We don't know what it is. The science is based 509 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 12: on observing nature and being seduced by nature or threatened 510 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 12: by nature and adapting to it. So this is part 511 00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 12: of our learning, you know, about the universe. Generally we 512 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 12: think we understand the earth, and that's not true when 513 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 12: you talk to you know, the Navy people who are here. 514 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 12: So I think we're getting humble as out of this, 515 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 12: and it's good for us to be a little bit humble. 516 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 12: For example, there are three universities in the United States 517 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 12: that are now engaged with projects that are funded. There 518 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 12: is you know, Stanford and the Columbia and Harvard. Excuse me, 519 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 12: but those are not depending on money from the government. 520 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 12: They do whatever they want, and a professor with tenure 521 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 12: in one of those universities, like doctor Nolan or doctor 522 00:34:53,200 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 12: Avilbe at Harvard can pretty much raise money from from 523 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 12: companies or from interested people and design the project he 524 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 12: wants and get his students involved. At the very beginning, 525 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 12: when I spoke to doctor Heinez, there were a number 526 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 12: of secret projects, if you remember, on the Air Force 527 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 12: in the US. So the hypothesis was that this was, 528 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,439 Speaker 12: this could come from an adversary, you know, as part 529 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,760 Speaker 12: of the Cold War, that this was part of spying, 530 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 12: this was and that hypothesis didn't work. I mean, what 531 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 12: they were observing was beyond the capabilities of even the 532 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 12: Soviet Union. The thing that I saw as a kid, 533 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 12: I have no idea I would compare it to you know, 534 00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 12: I could give you hundreds of observer stress like it 535 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 12: between ten and fifteen meters in diameter, a disc that 536 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 12: flies without noise or trail and has some sort of 537 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 12: a dome on dup priceauser. 538 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: When you listen to people like Jock Valet and Gary Nolan, 539 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 1: it forces you to slow down, not because they're giving 540 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: you answers, but they remind you how limited our frameworks 541 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: still are, how much of reality we explain through habit 542 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: and comfort instead of actual understanding. Science likes clean categories, 543 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 1: clear definitions, results that are repeatable, but the human experience 544 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: is never that tidy, making this season of high strange. 545 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: There's so many nuanced details that stand out to me. 546 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: People's tone, they're timing, body language, what somebody hesitates on, 547 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: what they tend to rush through, and what feels heavy. 548 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: Not just the stories themselves, but the real life moments 549 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: around them. Sitting across from someone and feeling the room 550 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,359 Speaker 1: change when a certain detail comes up, watching people light 551 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,320 Speaker 1: up or shut down, realizing how much information lives in 552 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: these pauses. They don't show up in transcripts, they don't 553 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,279 Speaker 1: fit neatly into an evidence folder, but they matter. 554 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 2: This show is not just about what people say happened. 555 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 1: It's about how they carry it, how it sits with them, 556 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,800 Speaker 1: how it shaped the way they move through the world. 557 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:40,799 Speaker 2: And the same goes for us. 558 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 1: Every interview, every drive, every late night conversation, all that 559 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: becomes part of the story too. So in the next episode, 560 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: I sit down with my team and we pull the 561 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: camera back even further. We talk openly about the people 562 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,399 Speaker 1: we've met, the places we went, the moments that's stuck 563 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 1: with us, and the stories that never quite fit into 564 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: a single episode. But I just have to tell you, 565 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: since twenty twenty three, we've been researching this topic at length. 566 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: We have dozens of more stories to share with you. 567 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: That's why we're coming back again. Season three of High 568 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 1: Strange will be even longer and begins on June six. 569 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: And before we get there, let's take the gloves off 570 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: and talk about some aliens. High Strange is a production 571 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: by Tenderfoot TV in association with iHeart Podcasts, created, hosted 572 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 1: and edited by myself Payne Lindsay. Executive producers are myself 573 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 1: and Donald Albright, editing by Mike Rooney, Cooper Skinner and myself. 574 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,720 Speaker 1: Original scorer by Makeup and Vanity Set, sound design, mixing, 575 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,800 Speaker 1: and mastering by Cooper Skinner, Additional production by Mike Rooney, 576 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: Dylan Harrington, Eric Quintana, Sean Nurney, and Meredith Stedman. 577 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,280 Speaker 2: Our cover art is by Polygon. 578 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Orrin Rosenbaum and the whole team at UTA, 579 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,800 Speaker 1: the Nord Group, Station sixteen, and Beck Media and Marketing. 580 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 2: Check out the show's website. 581 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,399 Speaker 1: At high Strange dot com, and if you're enjoying the show, 582 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 1: please help us out by rating and reviewing the podcast 583 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:19,320 Speaker 1: and share it with your friends. 584 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:20,720 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.