1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports show, where we 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: explore the big money issues in the world of sports. 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 2: I'm Scarlett Food and I'm Damien SaaS Hour. 4 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: Michael Barr is off this week, and he is missing 5 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: a big one because coming up we'll talk with Clutch 6 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: Sports founder and sports agent extraordinary Rich Paul. 7 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 3: At the end of the day, I'm an entrepreneur. Yeah, 8 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 3: you know, I can walk into bubble gum. At the 9 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 3: same time, you know, the for those that I represent 10 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,319 Speaker 3: at a level on which any gram wants to align 11 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 3: themselves with them, I'm gonna do the best job for 12 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 3: the client. 13 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 2: Plus, we'll learn about a group of billionaires looking to 14 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 2: become a co investor in the PGA Tour. 15 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: All that in Morris straight ahead on the Bloomberg Business 16 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: of Sports. But first, Damian, we got to talk show. 17 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 2: Hey O Tani, it's the greatest show. Hey on Earth, Scarlet. 18 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 2: We've not seen a talent like him before, and now 19 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: we've never seen a contract quite like this show. 20 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 4: Hey O Tani leads off the bottom of the sixth 21 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 4: in catch the angels on the board. 22 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: For the thirtieth home run. This ball went four hundred 23 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: ninety three feet. 24 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 2: He inked a ten years, seven hundred million dollar deal 25 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 2: with the Los Angeles Dodgers. That is the richest sports 26 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 2: contract in North American pro sports. 27 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: And Otani is planning to defer almost all his annual 28 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: salary to give the Dodgers financial flexibility. So here and 29 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: now to walk us through this groundbreaking deal is Vince Gennaro. 30 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 1: He is Associate Dean and Clinical Associate Professor at the 31 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: NYU Press and Robert Tish Institute for Global Sports. Vince, 32 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 33 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 5: Well, great to be on with you, Thanks for having me. 34 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: So seven hundred million dollars ten years. We know that 35 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: he's deferring a lot of that salary because of the 36 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: financial flexibility. There is a report that it actually works 37 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: out to Otani taking home just two million dollars per 38 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: season during that ten year span. Given where inflation is, 39 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: doesn't Otani actually come out behind as a result. 40 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 5: Well, there's there's a couple of factors here. First of all, 41 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 5: I have a sense that seven hundred million dollars number 42 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 5: was a number, sort of a branding number that they 43 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 5: wanted on this deal. But it is the most odd 44 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 5: structure you you could have ever imagined for a for 45 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 5: an athlete deal. He's going to be paid, as you said, 46 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 5: two million dollars a year for the ten years that 47 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 5: he's playing. Meanwhile, players out there of his caliber could 48 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 5: be paid forty or fifty million dollars for that time 49 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 5: per year. But he's being paid two million a year. 50 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 5: Then in the ten years after the contract expires, he 51 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 5: will be paid sixty eight million dollars a year. Now, 52 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 5: there's a couple of things here. First of all, if 53 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 5: you if you get the net present value of that deal, 54 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 5: it plays a little bit more like a forty five 55 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 5: million dollar a year deal over ten years paid out 56 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 5: evenly forty five a year, right, so you know, the 57 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 5: net present value is like three hundred and fifty million, 58 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 5: three hundred and sixty million dollars depending on the discount used. 59 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 5: But the other thing keep in mind here is that 60 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,839 Speaker 5: when he draws that sixty eight million, he probably will 61 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 5: not be a resident of the state of Calibdar. 62 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: There we go, Vian. 63 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 6: It's a tax. 64 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, you start to save that state income. Think 65 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 5: of the boy, wouldn't we love to have his state 66 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 5: income tax avoidance that he's not going to be paying 67 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 5: as a as a as an annibal compensation. So so 68 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,839 Speaker 5: it's a it's a very unique deal. And in the end, 69 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 5: coming in at what we would call a four hundred 70 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 5: and fifty million dollars ten year deal, forty five million 71 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 5: a year. Honestly, that's a little less than I thought 72 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 5: he would get. And I'm sure he could have gotten 73 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 5: a better, richer deal, but I'm sure he wanted to play. 74 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 2: In La So, Evince, let's talk about this for a 75 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 2: little bit, because you're spot on right, and the hit 76 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: to the Dodgers is forty six million dollars a year. 77 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 2: I'm talking the luxury tax per year hit, right, And 78 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 2: what I find most interesting about this is the Dodgers 79 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 2: are required to place forty six million dollars a year 80 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: in escrow to offset those future payments they need to 81 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 2: make the show. Hey, TONI right? So you know, so 82 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 2: one of the things I keep thinking about is, Okay, 83 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 2: you know, what's what's the real risk here? 84 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 6: Right? 85 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 2: I mean, obviously there's a risk of inflation picking up 86 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 2: or going down, and you know, you come out a 87 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 2: little bit ahead or not, right, And obviously there's the 88 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 2: tax trade that goes hand in hand with all this, Right, 89 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 2: but riddle me this. I mean, isn't oh Tani taking 90 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 2: a bit of default risk here? I mean, what if 91 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 2: the Dodgers in the next decade spend wildly on players 92 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 2: and realize that, you know, the future revenue for media 93 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 2: rights or whatever just wasn't enough to offset you know, 94 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 2: the price paid. I mean, can't they actually default and 95 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 2: something happened where sho Hey actually doesn't get paid is 96 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: six hundred and eighty million dollars? 97 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 5: You know, I think you have a point. I think 98 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 5: the certainly the default risk is not is not zero, 99 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 5: it's it exists. I don't know how to even begin 100 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 5: to quantify that. I was actually wondering if if that 101 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 5: sixty eight million per year over the outside out ten 102 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 5: years was secured in any way. And you know, for example, 103 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 5: I don't think they could do this and get this approved, 104 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 5: but like equity of the club or something like that. Right, 105 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 5: that doesn't ensure against bankruptcy because that may not you know, 106 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 5: I don't know where you would line up as. 107 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 2: Right, right, you're not a controlling shareholder either. I mean, 108 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 2: so this is all so interesting. I mean, they are 109 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 2: going to have Harvard Business School studies on this fince 110 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 2: as you well know, but you make a great point. 111 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 2: I mean, look forward. You know, he's Tony's twenty nine 112 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 2: years old. Fast forward to twenty thirty four, when that 113 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: first sixty eight million dollar payment comes to, he's going 114 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 2: to be forty years old. And I promise you he's 115 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: going to be a full time resident living in a 116 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 2: tax free jurisdiction like Bermuda the Cayman Islands. So it's 117 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 2: just an unbelievable And by the way, if you think 118 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 2: about it, Scarlett, you make you make a good point. 119 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 2: There's really no term premium in the contract. So if 120 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 2: his agent were really smart, maybe you should have built 121 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 2: some sort of an interest rate ladder into these post 122 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 2: contract payments. 123 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 5: Now, well, you know, I think he really he really 124 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 5: did by adding having an add up to seven hundred 125 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 5: million dollars. That's that's what the the in the premium 126 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 5: is because because there's no way he was going to 127 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 5: get a seven hundred million dollar contract. So I think 128 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 5: I think there's a little bit of as I said earlier, 129 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 5: branding in this number, because that's the biggest number that 130 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 5: a North American athlete has ever taken in, and I 131 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 5: think that was what was important. But in reality, he 132 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 5: should think of this as more like a you know, 133 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 5: forty five million dollar, forty six million dollars a year deal. 134 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 5: That's more the reasonable interpretation of it. 135 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 6: Right. 136 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,559 Speaker 2: He didn't even really make that five hundred million dollars 137 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 2: ten year number, right, if you take it and you 138 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 2: pressure value it, all right, that was kind of the 139 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 2: whisky number. 140 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 1: So I like the angle of the tax obligations and everything. 141 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: And we know plenty of people who have to sit 142 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: there and count days that they're in certain states or 143 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: certain countries for tax purposes. Do baseball players? Do professional 144 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: athletes have to sit there and count how many days 145 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: they play in California versus in Florida versus in New York, 146 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: especially when you're talking about salary numbers this size. 147 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 5: Yeah, I believe there are tax specialists who who focus 148 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 5: on specifically helping athletes prepare their taxes and understand their 149 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,119 Speaker 5: tax burdens and obligations. So when a player is playing 150 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 5: in Saint Louis, he has a different for a three 151 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 5: game series, he has a different tax obligation than if 152 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 5: he's playing in California. So all that is addressed, it 153 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 5: gets very complicated when you look at their travel schedule. Yeah, 154 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 5: so it's not just the days they spend to the place, 155 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 5: it's where, the where, the purport, where they perform. So yeah, 156 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 5: it's it's a pretty tricky thing. 157 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 6: Yeah. 158 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: I could just imagine Damian someone saying, I can't show 159 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: up for the Thursday game on Wednesday. I gotta come 160 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: Thursday morning. 161 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 5: Yeah. 162 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, you know what's also really interesting 163 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: is he is deferring all this money, which means he 164 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: has revenue coming in from other sources, specifically as advertisers. Right, 165 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: so endorsement his endorsement. So check it out. Four of 166 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 2: his primary corporate supporters Mitsubishi Japan Airlines, Coast Group, and 167 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 2: Psycho Group, which is the watchmaker their shares on the 168 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 2: Nike We're up huge after this news, which you know, 169 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: and this is why I'm asking you, e Vince, I mean, 170 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 2: how is this contract good for those companies all? 171 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 5: Because I think it's going to make Otani now that 172 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 5: you've paired him with one of the I would call 173 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 5: it three marquee brands in the sport, and I would 174 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 5: think the Yankees, the Dodgers, and the Cubs, in no 175 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 5: particular order. I think it elevates his profile even further 176 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 5: if you could, if we could even believe that, because 177 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 5: he's been emerging as the face of baseball in the US. 178 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 5: But I think this takes it on a much bigger, 179 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 5: even bigger level, and I think that is going to 180 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 5: be nothing but a win for anybody who's affiliated with him. 181 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 5: And the word is that he's already making forty to 182 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 5: fifty million dollars in endorsement dollars already per year, which 183 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 5: explains a little bit why he can afford to go 184 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 5: at two million a year for the ten years that 185 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 5: he's playing. 186 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 2: Well, Vince, I think Scarlett and Stevie Cohen would take 187 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: a bit of, you know, a bit of the other 188 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 2: side of that. Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers now. But truthfully, what 189 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 2: I what I also want to ask you is what 190 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 2: do you think this means for forget about baseball, but 191 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 2: professional sports and all these contracts. You know, I read 192 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: a statue yesterday that this contract seven hundred million is 193 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 2: more than the combined career earnings of Steph Curry and 194 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 2: Klay Thompson. I mean, that is bananas bananas, So what 195 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 2: is this like? What impact do you think this can 196 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 2: have on NFL player contracts? I mean, you know, Patrick 197 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 2: Mahomes was the highest paid per year player and professional 198 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 2: sports and so all this, so you know, what does 199 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 2: this mean? 200 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 5: Well, you know, it's a great question, and you have 201 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 5: to balance it with the degree to which this uniqueness 202 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 5: is something we've never seen before. So if Steph Curry 203 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 5: could play, you know, be the three point shooter that 204 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 5: he is and you know, block eight shots a game 205 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 5: and play the post position and you know, and do 206 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 5: it all, this guy is pitching and hitting. And even 207 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 5: though he won't pitch this coming year because of his 208 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 5: time and John surgery, he will he is expected to 209 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 5: pitch beyond that and be one of the top pitchers 210 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 5: in the game in addition to be one of the 211 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 5: top hitters. So you know, right now, every GM and 212 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 5: every team owner is telling their players, look, don't even 213 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 5: think about this as a precedent of setting the because 214 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 5: this is a unicorn. This is there's never been a 215 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 5: more unique player and none of this applies to anybody else. 216 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 5: So this is what the debate is going to be 217 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 5: back and forth. 218 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 2: Well, Vince Our, thanks to you, Associate Dean and Clinical 219 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 2: Associate Professor at the NYU Preston Robertish Institute, of Global Sports, 220 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 2: Vince Gennaro, thank you so much for joining us here 221 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 2: on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 222 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 5: My pleasure, thanks for having me. 223 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 2: Coming off, we turn to a group of billionaires looking 224 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 2: to dive in on the PGA Tour. That's straight ahead 225 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 2: on the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio brand. 226 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports show, where we 227 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: explore the big money issues in the world of sports. 228 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: I'm Scarlett Fu along with Damien Sassaur. Michael barr Is 229 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: off this week. Still to come, we'll talk with Clutch 230 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: Sports founder Rich Paul will get his thoughts on some 231 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: of the latest big moves in sports and also pick 232 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: his brain on what it's like representing some of the 233 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: world's most famous athletes. 234 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 3: The unfortunate thing is for someone in my position and 235 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 3: you get people that want to be like me, but 236 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 3: they don't want to work with you because they feel 237 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 3: like they can't beat them next to you. 238 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: That conversation on the way next, but first, plenty of 239 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 1: drama in golf. 240 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 2: That's right, Scarlett, after saying he would not do it. 241 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 2: The number three golfer in the world, Gen Ram is 242 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 2: the latest big name to join Live Golf, and so. 243 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,239 Speaker 1: Of course, the PGA Tour announced it will be suspending 244 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: Rom as a result. 245 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 2: In an interview shared on Live Golf's YouTube channel, Rom 246 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 2: explains why he made the leap from the PGA to Live. 247 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 4: I think the innovation and the vision of Live Golf 248 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 4: is would push me over to at least give it 249 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 4: a chance and hear the pitch out and ultimately ended 250 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 4: up being what a I guess I wanted to hear, right. 251 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 4: I believe on the growth of the game of golf. 252 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 4: I've largely spoken about how Savy improved the game of 253 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 4: golf in Spain, and I've always said how I would 254 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 4: like to do the same thing over there, and if 255 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 4: I can reach a bigger audience, he would be amazing, 256 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,079 Speaker 4: and I do believe this process will help me do that. 257 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 2: That's John Rahm in a video share by Livegolf on YouTube. 258 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 2: But that's not the only headline surrounding the PGA and 259 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 2: Live Bloomberg News is reporting that a group of billionaires 260 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 2: is in talks to invest in the PGA Tour. 261 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, this group of potential investors reads like a who's 262 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: who of the super rich and sports. We're talking Steve Cohen, 263 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: Mark Lazr, Arthur Blank and more. 264 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 2: Bloomberg News Senior reporter Julian Tan is here now to 265 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 2: help us break it all down. Jillian, Welcome to the 266 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business of Sports. 267 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 7: Thanks for having me, so. 268 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 2: Jillian, talk to us here. What exactly is going on? 269 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 2: Last we heard, you know, the Saudi's were taking over. 270 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 2: They were taken over the PGA. They're taking over golf, 271 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 2: and now it seems like we have some other parties involved. 272 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 7: Yeah. So we actually first broke news on this a 273 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 7: couple of months ago. The whole idea of a US 274 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 7: investor sort of coming in, maybe it makes it a 275 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 7: little bit more palatable someone to invest alongside Saudi's sovereign 276 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 7: Walk Fund it's known as PIFF in its combination with 277 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 7: the PGA tour, and there were a bunch of US 278 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 7: investors sort of angling. We reported Endeavor, you know, the 279 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 7: Arian Annual talent agency. They confirmed they were in, then 280 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 7: they dropped. We reported some other very very big names 281 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 7: you mentioned billionaires. There was a Friends of Golf group 282 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 7: that featured the KKR co founders Henry Kravitz and George Roberts, 283 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 7: which then dropped. And then yes, Stanway Sports Group has 284 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 7: brought together this consortium of as you say it, who's 285 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 7: who of US investors. 286 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, it involves Steve Cohen of course, the owner of 287 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: the New York Mets, the hedge fund billionaire Mark Lazree, 288 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: former co owner of the Milwaukee Bucks. You also have Marktanasio, 289 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: who owns the Brewers, Arthur Blank, who owned Wick Grouseback. 290 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 2: We've had work on the show. 291 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: Yes with Grosseback. You also have Arthur Blank of the 292 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: Atlanta Falcons. I mean, the list just goes on. What's 293 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: notable here, Gillian is these guys all want to get 294 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: in on the new PGA slash Live Golf entity that 295 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: whose status is clearly unknown at this point. 296 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 6: Yeah. 297 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 7: So the Goal and the PGA and Live and PIFF 298 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 7: have all said they're all trying to work towards the 299 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 7: December thirty one deadline that's coming up pretty quickly. But 300 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 7: what needs to happen is for these US investors to 301 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 7: push forward. I think there actually needs to be a 302 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 7: change in a memorandum of understanding that would allow you know, 303 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 7: this new entity to create a US investor like loophole, 304 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 7: because right now Saudi has total exclusivity, right, So what 305 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 7: needs to happen, is they need to change terms, allow 306 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 7: this US investor in and then, as you said, all 307 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 7: these guys want in because they do believe in, you know, 308 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 7: the stickiness of the sport, the success of the sport, 309 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 7: and you know, Sunday afternoon, a lot of these guys 310 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 7: are at home, you know, watching TV and they know 311 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 7: the media rights attached to Golfer obviously valuable. 312 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 2: Well, Julian, you just hit the nail on the head, right. 313 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 2: All we had up until this point was an MoU, 314 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 2: a memorandum of understanding, right. We didn't really have any 315 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 2: real hard facts on what you know, you know, a 316 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 2: live PGA, you know, joint entity might even look like 317 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 2: or do do we have any color on that at 318 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 2: this point? 319 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 7: No, there was there is if people want to go 320 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 7: and read the paperwork like that's all filed with the DOJ. 321 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 7: But our colleagues reported, I think it was last week 322 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 7: that you know, a refreshed mo OU will be put 323 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 7: forward to you know, regulators at the DOJ, likely before 324 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 7: the end of this year. 325 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: And our understanding is that j Monahan and the head 326 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: of the PIF are negotiating this week as well. Do 327 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: we know anything more than that. I mean, do we 328 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: know how far along they are in discussions. I know 329 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: this is all the speculation at this point, but everyone's 330 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: starved for some kind of detail. 331 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 7: Yes, so, I think Jay confirmed at a recent conference 332 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 7: he's meeting YAsO this week. And I'm not sure if 333 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 7: you guys followed this, but John Rahm, he's the reigning 334 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 7: Masters Championship Live Golf, you know, secured him in the 335 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 7: Big two recently, and everyone views that as you know, 336 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 7: Saudi adding a little bit more pressure and leverage to 337 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 7: their side of the negotiation. There were rumors they were 338 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 7: also going to get a US golfer called Tony Female, 339 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 7: who this week posted on Instagram. Yeah yeah, he's a 340 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 7: cashtag I'm not leaving or something like that, which which 341 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 7: is interesting. But it's certainly, you know, a pretty tense 342 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 7: time as the PGA and PIFF move forward, because you know, 343 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 7: the PGA has much less leverage if you know, by 344 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 7: the end of the month, which is when the deadline is. 345 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 7: And I don't think this will happen, but if PIFF 346 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 7: suddenly secured all top ten golfers, then you know, what 347 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 7: does the PGA left with really have? Yeah, I mean 348 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 7: John obviously have. 349 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: A Oh no, no, sorry to interrupt, I just I was 350 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: going to say that. John Rahm also in twenty twenty two, 351 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: made it really clear that he was not interested in 352 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: live golf until the news broke that the PGA was 353 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: in discussions with live golf, and that kind of opened 354 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: the door to everything. It legitimized any conversation that a 355 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: pro golfer might have live. 356 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 2: That's right, Scarlett. And what's interesting about the John Rahm 357 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 2: is you know, how is the PGA supposed to act 358 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 2: and respond to this. Well, they told you they suspended him, right, 359 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 2: I mean, so it's kind of unbelievable, right, I mean, 360 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 2: this is the number three player in the world. He's 361 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 2: now suspended ahead of the season. Anyway, I mean where 362 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 2: I sit with all this is, you know, time, the 363 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 2: clock is ticking. 364 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 5: You know. 365 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 2: Is there any chance here that as these kind of 366 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 2: negotiations continue with the Fenway Sports Group, Jillian, that the 367 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,439 Speaker 2: Saudis get cold feet and decide to back away from this. 368 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 2: Is that something that they've indicated might well be a 369 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 2: possibility and just say, well, you know, to hell with this, 370 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 2: We're just going to keep live and go it alone. 371 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 7: No, that doesn't seem to be at all like on 372 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 7: the table, Like I think the whole idea is that 373 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 7: maybe they figure something out. But yeah, I mean, certainly 374 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 7: everything is possible, and there could be a world in 375 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 7: which Live remains a totally separate entity and these sort 376 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 7: of two leagues compete definitely, but you know, I think 377 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 7: the goal is to have a situation where the players 378 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 7: can move freely between the leagues, right right. 379 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: One thing that I've noticed in our conversation and our 380 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: name checking all these different sports billionaires is the names 381 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: that did not come up, Josh Harris, David Blitzer, David Rubinstein, 382 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: Jillian What happened? These guys aren't interested in golf? 383 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 7: No, Well, I think a lot of them at their 384 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 7: hands full with you know, their investment terms. But yeah, 385 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 7: I don't think golf is their particular sport of choice 386 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 7: or the sports that they love. And yeah, everyone knows 387 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 7: Josh Harris led a group that bought the Commanders for 388 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 7: a record setting six billion, and then we reported that 389 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 7: David Rubinstein is looking at the oriole So yeah, everyone's 390 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 7: got their attention a little bit elsewhere. But a ball 391 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 7: is usually, you. 392 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: Know, in play, A ball is in play all right, 393 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: well said, thank you so much. Our thanks to Bloomberg 394 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 1: News senior reporter Jillian Tan and the sports billionaires who 395 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: want in on the new entity that might be formed 396 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: by the Burned Repgia Tour and Live Golf. Up next, 397 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: we bring in sports super agent Rich Paul. 398 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 6: Is not solely about the money you're making, etc. 399 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 3: It's about the impact you're making, and it's about the 400 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 3: opportunity you're able to give. And so instead of me 401 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 3: having to necessarily, you know, give somebody advice for a 402 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 3: place of yeah, you know, I did it like this, 403 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 3: and I did it like that, and if you go 404 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 3: to school, you could do this and do that, I 405 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 3: can actually hire somebody. 406 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg 407 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: Radio around the world. Thanks for joining us on the 408 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports show, where we explore the big 409 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: money issues in the world of sports. I'm Scarlett Foo. 410 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 2: And I'm Damian Sasaur. 411 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: Michael Barr is off this week, so Bloomberg US sports 412 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: business reporter Randall Williams is jumping in. Hey Randall, Hey, 413 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 1: how are you all? 414 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 8: Thank you for having me. 415 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 2: As always Randall, Rich Paul represents some of the biggest 416 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 2: names in the NBA and beyond, starting with none other 417 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 2: than the King, Lebron James. 418 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 1: He is founder and CEO of Clutch Sports Group and 419 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: also co head of Sports at United Talent Agency. 420 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 2: He also has a new book out called Lucky Me, 421 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 2: a memoir of changing the odds, and he's here to 422 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 2: talk to us about it, plus some of the latest 423 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 2: big headlines in sports. Rich Paul, Welcome to the Bloomberg 424 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 2: Business of Sports. 425 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 6: Thank you, thank you, thanks for having me. 426 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: I want to play off of the title of your book, 427 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,959 Speaker 1: Lucky Me. What has been the luckiest thing that's happened 428 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: to you in your career that led you to where 429 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: you are? 430 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 6: Oh? 431 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 3: You know what, I think the luckiest thing that's happened 432 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 3: to me was created by me just having the belief 433 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 3: of myself. And you know, when I left CAAA, that 434 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 3: was probably the best decision I ever made in my career. 435 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 8: One of the things one of the main themes of 436 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 8: the book for anybody who's read it or listened to it, 437 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 8: is betting on yourself. And you alluded to that. What 438 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 8: do you think your dad instilled than you that allowed 439 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 8: you to continue to bet on yourself? Even at this age, 440 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 8: because a lot of times there's risk with it. And 441 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 8: I think that's one of the things that you've mastered, 442 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 8: is risk versus reward. 443 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, I just never had a doubt. I 444 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:13,360 Speaker 6: never allowed somebody to. 445 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 3: Position the fact that you know, I had this job 446 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 3: that young black men don't supposed to have because I 447 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 3: didn't have the requirements to do so. And so my 448 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 3: dad believing in me. My dad always been president in 449 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 3: my life. My dad instilled in that work ethic and 450 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 3: being a great example for me allowed me to take 451 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 3: that step that you know, allowed me to then take 452 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 3: many steps to the pathway that brought me to the 453 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 3: place I sit today. 454 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 6: Rich. 455 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 2: I mean, look, one of the chapters in the book, 456 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 2: which is by the way, amazing for our audience, you 457 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 2: have to read it, is leave nothing to chance. And 458 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 2: one of the quotes I remember that your dad told 459 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 2: you is be careful. No, the robbers know, the jackers 460 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 2: know the schemers. So how do you tell Tom Brady 461 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 2: and Steph Curry, who basically decided to go into business 462 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 2: with Sam Bakmon Freed and FTX, right, how can you 463 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 2: how can these athletes know or even sort of try 464 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 2: to determine that he was, that this was a Ponzi scheme, 465 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 2: that he was a robber, he was a schemer, you know. 466 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 2: I mean it was good money. I mean, thirty five 467 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 2: million for Steph, fifty five million for Tom Brady. Did 468 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 2: they have to give that back? 469 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 6: Now? 470 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 2: What do you think? 471 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 6: I don't know. 472 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 3: I think it's unfair to Stephan Tom. You know, like 473 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 3: that's a blind sided thing. You can't really see that coming, 474 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 3: and you can do all the diligence, et cetera, but 475 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 3: that that's just a tough one. 476 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 6: You know, that's probably a little bit above my pay grade. 477 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 3: But both Steph and Tom are great dudes and so 478 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 3: and smart guys, so I know they wouldn't purposely do 479 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 3: something to put themselves in that position. 480 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: I want to get your thoughts on a couple of 481 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: big headlines going on in the world of sports, and 482 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: of course we have to start with the show. Hey 483 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: Otani Monster contract signings seven hundred million dollars over ten years, 484 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 1: but of course a big chunk of that will be deferred. 485 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,959 Speaker 1: Does this change a game for big contract signings? I mean, 486 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: not just in the MLB, but across sports. 487 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 3: I don't think so, you know, I think everyone has 488 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 3: their opinion on it. I think, you know, based upon 489 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 3: where he lives and understanding the taxes where he in 490 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 3: the state of California, I can understand why he's doing it. 491 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 3: And in addition to the fact that he's made he 492 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 3: makes probably forty five to fifty million dollars off the 493 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 3: phil makes him able to have that cushion to do so. 494 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,640 Speaker 3: I mean when I did when Lebron came back from 495 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 3: Miami and we did the one plus one and one 496 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 3: plus one on his contract, a lot of that went 497 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 3: into effect. You know, he made so much money off 498 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 3: off the court that we can take that risk, right 499 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,199 Speaker 3: and so you know, that was one of many reasons 500 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 3: why we did that, and so I fully understand it. 501 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 3: I fully understand It's two different strategies, right, because you 502 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 3: have the same state tax in Ohio as as a 503 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 3: Tony does in California, but same principle in terms of 504 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 3: the reason why he's able to only make two million 505 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 3: dollars this. 506 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 6: Year as a player in baseball. 507 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 3: Allowing his team to then go out and build around 508 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 3: him was one aspect that I imagine he's trying to 509 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 3: save a little money on the taxis I mean I 510 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 3: let the RS deal with that. 511 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 6: That's something that he would have to deal with later 512 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 6: on down the road. 513 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 3: But the same thing in terms of when we came back, 514 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 3: when we came from Miami back to Cleveland, and it 515 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 3: was for different reasons, but strategy, you know, it is 516 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 3: all strategy for us. It was, you know, we understood 517 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 3: that the cat was increasing each year. We understood that 518 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 3: Lebron was at a level in which he could take 519 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 3: that risk because he made so much money off the 520 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 3: court and he was just so good he would have 521 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 3: to lose both arms and both legs not to get 522 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 3: paid his value. And so in addition to it was 523 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 3: on the reverse though in terms of team like and 524 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 3: even wants his team to be able to, you know, 525 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 3: continue to have great talent around him. The NBA restricts 526 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 3: certain things, so you couldn't necessarily do that per se, 527 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 3: But it was the other way around. We wanted to 528 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 3: have flexibility in case the team decided not to continue 529 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 3: to pay the tax every year to maintain and retain 530 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 3: the players that were currently on the roster to help 531 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 3: you know, play at the level. 532 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 6: That was needed. And so you know, again. 533 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 3: I understand it fully Again, you know, everyone will have 534 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 3: their own opinion on it, but if they feel it 535 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 3: works for them, then great. 536 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 2: Rich. 537 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 8: One of the things I wanted to ask you about 538 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 8: is where do you think the sports industry is headed? 539 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 8: And the reason I want to ask about it is 540 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 8: because athletes today are able to make more money earlier 541 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 8: than they've ever been able to make it, and then 542 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 8: once they go professional, the rookie contracts are bigger and 543 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 8: the max contracts are humongous. When you look at the 544 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 8: sports agency world, where do you think it's going? 545 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 6: Well? I mean, look, I think I think that's a 546 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:55,959 Speaker 6: very slippery slope. 547 00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 3: And I think most people, especially you know, the people 548 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 3: around the athlete, I think they have to really allow 549 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 3: themselves to be firmly planned from a place of education 550 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 3: and experience, right, Because when you talk about athletes are 551 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 3: able to make more money, that's just a broad statement. 552 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 3: You can't really name one, and you can't really name 553 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 3: one that does it with consistency. 554 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 5: Right. 555 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 3: So if you can sit here and say give me 556 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 3: an example, we'll be sitting here. 557 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 6: Next to next probably right. 558 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 3: So, I think it's very confusing, and I think social 559 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 3: media also confuses people because there's a lot of announcements 560 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 3: and no follow right. 561 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 6: There's a lot of. 562 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 3: Show, there's articles, there's you know, there's all these things, 563 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 3: but there's no follow through. 564 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 6: There's no real infrastructure position. 565 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 3: You don't see something being built where it has sustainability 566 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 3: and what I would say a track record, right, And 567 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 3: so I don't really get into that. I think the 568 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 3: sports agency business, you know, is a lot like music, right. 569 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 3: It depends on who you represent. If you're representing guys 570 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 3: that want to not pay you, the better they become, 571 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 3: the less they want to pay you, then you're in 572 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 3: a bad business, you know. If you're representing guys that 573 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 3: want to show up on time and want to be 574 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 3: professional and want to be great partners and want to 575 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 3: respect you for your work just as much as you 576 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 3: respect them for their work, and they feel good about 577 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 3: paying the people around them because they understand that's how 578 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 3: business actually works, and they feel good about the partners, 579 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 3: and they feel good about the fact that you advise 580 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 3: them to do something and when they show up and 581 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 3: it's a six hour shoot and they get it done 582 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 3: in four, that it allows them to further position themselves 583 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,479 Speaker 3: with that partner versus showing up at four when they 584 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 3: should have been there at two and they ask for 585 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 3: eight hours, and now you can plan. 586 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 6: And only want to do one if you're trauma. 587 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I mean, I mean I've been around this 588 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 3: business twenty two years. 589 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 6: There's nothing There's nothing I haven't seen. 590 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 3: And the unfortunate thing is for someone in my position, 591 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 3: you get people that want to be like me, but 592 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 3: they don't want to work with you because they feel 593 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 3: like they can't beat them next to you, so they 594 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 3: can beat them somewhere else. 595 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 2: You know, so rich, I have to ask you this, right, 596 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 2: I mean, look, you are the kingmaker man. You've been 597 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 2: dealing with Nike since the beginning of your relationship with 598 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 2: Lebron James and through all your clients. I'm sure. I 599 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 2: mean you've even I've been dealing with Nike much adopt right, 600 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 2: I mean you went off I mean three former Nike executives. 601 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 2: You have a wellness of brand with them, a super 602 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 2: products band with them. So here's my question. Well, yeah, 603 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,719 Speaker 2: Clutch Athletics, your own brand with New Balance. I mean, 604 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 2: what does Nike think of that? 605 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 3: I think I think Nike respected, you know, I think 606 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I'm an entrepreneur. Yeah, 607 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 3: you know, I can walk into bubble Gum at the 608 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 3: same time, you know, for the for those that I 609 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 3: represent UH at a level in which any brand wants 610 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 3: to align themselves with them, I'm gonna do the best 611 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 3: job for the client. You know, there's some clients that 612 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 3: just you know, just we just can't pay. I mean, look, 613 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 3: I could have signed darreon Fox. He signed to the 614 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 3: Curry brand. Great, no problem, right. I have clients at Nike, 615 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 3: and I have a few clients at New Balance. Our 616 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 3: focus at Clutch from the from the brand side has 617 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 3: been more on N I L. 618 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 6: I have signed some football players and we'll continue to 619 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 6: be active in that space. 620 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,959 Speaker 3: But it's a little bit different, you know, right, and 621 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 3: it's very selective, it's very strategic with our approach. We 622 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 3: just signed a young lady by the name of Elia 623 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 3: Crump out of Minnesota, who is we're really excited about 624 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 3: and will continue to invest in the in the in 625 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 3: the girls game as well as the N I L space. 626 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 6: But you know, at the end of the day, I 627 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 6: just saw. 628 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 3: An opportunity, you know, I felt like, you know, I 629 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 3: didn't name the company Rich Paul's for a reason, right, 630 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 3: Rich Paul Sports or anything like that. I wanted to 631 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 3: to name the companies something that could grow legs, and 632 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 3: in this case, Clutch Brand and Clutch Sports Group are 633 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 3: two totally separate companies, you know, just they just able 634 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 3: to share the same name because they were created by 635 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 3: the same person. But in addition to that, you know, 636 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 3: I'm forever evolving. I don't feel like I should be limited. 637 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 3: I don't feel like I should be content or can 638 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 3: place in any matter, or satisfied for that matter. 639 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 6: I mean, look, we've been extremely successful despite. 640 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 3: You know, I had to build a company with one 641 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 3: arm behind my back for a lot of different reasons, 642 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 3: and I appreciate that because it just makes you stronger. 643 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 3: But I'm not stopping there. I'm not going to be 644 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 3: discouraged by it, because at the end of the day, 645 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 3: no one puts a limit on Bezos, no one puts 646 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 3: a limit on Zuckerberg, no one puts the limit on 647 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 3: you know a lot of guys who continue to roll 648 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 3: up these companies into a company that they've been able 649 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 3: to build. 650 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 6: And so I want to be the same way. 651 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 3: I want to be able to sit in rooms with 652 00:30:58,080 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 3: those guys as you know. 653 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 6: Respect the peers. 654 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 3: Maybe not from a bank account, perspective, that's difficult to do. 655 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 3: But from a perspective, yeah, definitely, from a perspective of 656 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 3: you know, you just you just work hard. And the 657 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 3: thing for me is what I one thing I love 658 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,479 Speaker 3: about it most and the biggest joy I get out 659 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 3: of it is as you create these companies, it's not 660 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 3: about the money. It's not solely about the money you're making, 661 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 3: et cetera. It's about the impact you're making, and it's 662 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 3: about the opportunity you're able to give. And so instead 663 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 3: of me having to necessarily, you know, give somebody advice 664 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 3: from a place of yeah, you know, I did it 665 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 3: like this, and I did it like that, and if 666 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 3: you go to school, you can do this and do that. 667 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 6: I can actually hire somebody, And I. 668 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 3: Think that is extremely That's much more important than any 669 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 3: magazine cover I can be on or any praise I 670 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 3: can get. Giving someone an opportunity that can change their life, 671 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 3: that can change the trajectory of their children's live, that 672 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 3: can give them a different experience to better understand how life. 673 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 6: Is supposed to be lived. That's a different place than. 674 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 5: Where I come from. 675 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 3: Because where I come from and you read the book, 676 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 3: When you read that book, it is a different dynamic. 677 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 3: I have France that's never been downtown, that don't even 678 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 3: make sense, you know, And so that's what pushes me 679 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 3: every day. And that's why, you know, despite anything, you know, look, 680 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 3: God has blessed me and my family and allowed me 681 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 3: to be extremely successful despite all the challenges. But at 682 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 3: the same time, you know, I don't look at it 683 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 3: as a negative. If there's anything negative or any type, 684 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 3: I'm vegan too, anything beef negative, I'm vegan as a particular. 685 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 2: So Rich, Rich when you when you when you left, 686 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 2: he said, leaving c AA was you know, one of 687 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 2: the best movies, the best movie you ever made. I 688 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 2: know you don't miss Veno, but do you miss Lloyd 689 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 2: for sure? No, I'm just kidding. I'm not going to 690 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 2: ask you about Lloyd, but listen, I need to ask you. 691 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 6: Good guys over there, I just you know, I just 692 00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 6: had to do his own things. 693 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 3: It's the opportunity. And again, you know, I think no 694 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 3: one expected me to be in the position I am today. 695 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 3: And what I see guys there, you know, they're respectful. 696 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 3: They may not like it. I'm sure there's conversations. I 697 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,719 Speaker 3: know for a fact, there's conversations behind closed doors. 698 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,719 Speaker 6: But everyone has to respect it. 699 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 3: And you know, I gotta talk from a place of truth, 700 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 3: you know, And so I know most people are afraid 701 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 3: to do that in my position, but that's just the 702 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 3: way it has to be. 703 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 6: That's how I was raised. 704 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 8: Rich. One of the things that I've heard you say, 705 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 8: I think it was on first take, is that when 706 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 8: you were starting, you didn't have agents who looked like 707 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 8: you opened the door for you And you mentioned a 708 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 8: little I think it was the question before about how 709 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 8: you are opening doors for the people who are coming 710 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 8: behind you? Yeah, what ways are you? How are you 711 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,959 Speaker 8: opening those doors for people to excel? 712 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 6: Yeah? 713 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 3: Well, I think just to clarify, you know, because when 714 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 3: I was on first take, you know, I think people 715 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 3: made about black agents. Let me clarify. There was no agents. 716 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 3: There wasn't an agent I was working with. It wasn't 717 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 3: no plan, there was no strategy. It was just hey, 718 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 3: you somebody friend, let's try to keep in positions, just home. 719 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 6: And yeah, and but but it was a little bit 720 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 6: more love. 721 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,879 Speaker 3: Than that, but it was just no plan. I can't see. 722 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 3: It was a little bit more love than that, but 723 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:15,959 Speaker 3: it was just no plan. But it was no whether 724 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 3: you were black or white agents. When I came into business, 725 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 3: they were doing everything they can to, you know, to 726 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 3: assassinate my character, to discourage families. You know, there was 727 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 3: I mean, this is all public. There was an article 728 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,879 Speaker 3: written October tenth. I remember, you know, two thousand there 729 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 3: was an article written October tenth, two thousand and twelve 730 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 3: that basically assassinated my character and tried to get me 731 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 3: investigated and all these things that was planned by my 732 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 3: previous That was planet that was a strategic thing that 733 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 3: didn't work. 734 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 6: But I had to do an investigation n Cuba and everything. 735 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 3: And you know, I understood the war within the game 736 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 3: because I came from that. 737 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 6: So I was basically like, okay, bring it on. 738 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 3: But every day I lived my life that way, understanding 739 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:12,359 Speaker 3: that I was at war. 740 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 6: So it was a different dynamic for me. 741 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 3: But but getting back to your question, Yeah, today, what 742 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 3: I'm doing is I leave the door open. 743 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 6: I really do. 744 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 3: And my door's always open in my office. My door's 745 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:25,399 Speaker 3: always open. 746 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 6: Anyone who works with me, I like to say, work 747 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 6: with me, not for me. Anyone who works with me. 748 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 2: You think you think leon door is open? Is lack? 749 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 2: Vin is zach levin coming to the next I mean, no, no, 750 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 2: that's not gonna happen. 751 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: Your answer, thanks, it's blatantly honest. 752 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 7: The rich. 753 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, I think I leave the door open, 754 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 3: and I think, and it's not just for people that 755 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,240 Speaker 3: work with me, you know, even the so called rival companies. 756 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 3: Whatever I talk, I see young people, and I talk 757 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 3: to them as well, you know, as much as I 758 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 3: would someone who works at my company, because it's not 759 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 3: really a competition. 760 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 6: I think that's a fictitious thing. It's not really a competition. 761 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 3: I don't see anybody, whether they were here twenty years 762 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,720 Speaker 3: before me or hopefully someone who comes after me, based 763 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,760 Speaker 3: upon the trail that I'm that I'm continuing to blaze, 764 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 3: have it better that I had it right, It's able 765 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,400 Speaker 3: to be positioned better, proceeding better, and things of that nature. 766 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 3: But yeah, no, I mean, look, I had there was 767 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 3: black agentes selling parents, and you know, still to this 768 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 3: there's something that happens still to this day. 769 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 6: You wouldn't believe it. 770 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 3: There still hasn't been a conversation at the high level. 771 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 3: People still don't want to work alongside you. People still 772 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 3: don't want to, you know, allow you to buy their businesses. 773 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, look, I mean I was just thinking 774 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 6: about it when I was just getting ready for this. 775 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 3: I'm like that, It's crazy that people that you would 776 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 3: talk to all the time would rather see and help 777 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 3: someone else and help you. This is what I deal 778 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 3: with every day. I've had NBA players call families and say, 779 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 3: don't go with this person, like you should go with 780 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 3: And they don't have nothing to do with anything, right, 781 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 3: and they know me, by the way, they really should 782 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 3: be like, you know what, if it's rich, that's off limits, right, 783 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 3: if it's company to company, then of course I'm a 784 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 3: group for you. 785 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 6: You know, this is where I made well I have. 786 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 3: But if you know me, you've been in my house, 787 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 3: you've been around my here, then I'm not asking you 788 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 3: to say go to Rich, Paul or anything. I'm just 789 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 3: asking you to be like, you know what, Hey, that's 790 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 3: that's family there. You've made the best man win because 791 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 3: that's how I am. I don't negatively few. I don't 792 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 3: care to do that, don't need to do that. Who's 793 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 3: going to be for you is going to be for you. 794 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:41,319 Speaker 3: I've always lived my life like that. 795 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 6: So rich good there. 796 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: From the our conversation, that there's very little that surprises you. 797 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: And in fact, you said, in all your years of 798 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: doing this, not much catches you by surprise, so very quickly. 799 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: Here when was the last time you were surprised by 800 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 1: some kind of sports deal, some sports headline? What surprise 801 00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 1: you last? 802 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:05,359 Speaker 6: Oh man? What surprised me? That's a tough one, man, 803 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 6: you know. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what 804 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,320 Speaker 6: excited me more than anything. I don't know what. I 805 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 6: don't know what surprised me? What excited me? 806 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 3: And that kid continue to talk about this is the 807 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 3: deal that we were able to do for Chris Livingston 808 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 3: this year. You know, Chris Livingston was a kid who 809 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 3: came out highly talented, probably went to the wrong school, 810 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 3: you know, And that happens to a lot of young men. 811 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 3: And here's here's the thing we don't see, and I 812 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 3: might do something on this. We don't see the kids 813 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 3: that came out highly talented, sat in the living room 814 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,839 Speaker 3: and was told something by coaching staff, and they got 815 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 3: to campus and the total opposite thing happened and they 816 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:54,799 Speaker 3: go from being a draft a draft prospect to never 817 00:38:54,880 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 3: heard from again. And people don't understand how important and 818 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 3: how devastating that is to someone's life, their families, because 819 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 3: everyone's thinking, hey, it's gonna be a red carpet rolled 820 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,359 Speaker 3: out as long as the Golden gate Bridge, and we're 821 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 3: gonna make it, and the family's gonna be straight everything. 822 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,720 Speaker 3: And so I continue to go back to that because 823 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 3: here's a kid that probably should have been a first 824 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 3: round pick, but because he got off to such a 825 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 3: weird start due to a number of things, and you know, 826 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 3: wasn't playing and wasn't starting and this and that, and 827 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 3: you know it wasn't being put in position to be. 828 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 6: Successful, and you know, and here it is. 829 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 3: He was the last pick in the draft, but he 830 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,439 Speaker 3: got a first round structure and guaranteed money and all 831 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 3: you can and I sell all my guys. All you 832 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:48,759 Speaker 3: can ask for in life is direction, and you have 833 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 3: to make your way from there, right. And so I'm 834 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 3: extremely thankful for the opportunity that Lebron had allowed me 835 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 3: to have by by representing him. It took me nine 836 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 3: years to do so on paper as a friend, I'm 837 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 3: extremely thankful about the experience I was able to have 838 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 3: and the rooms I was able to be in. And 839 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 3: I'm also thankful for my parents who allowed me to 840 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,959 Speaker 3: be a person to understand when you're in the room, 841 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 3: to shut up and to pay attention and to respect 842 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 3: people and to listen more than you talk, which allowed 843 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 3: me to then reposition myself and transition and have some 844 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 3: type of direction. 845 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,840 Speaker 6: But it was up to me to. 846 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 3: Have the yards after the catch the brons through a 847 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,360 Speaker 3: screen pass. Yes you did, but I had to run 848 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:39,840 Speaker 3: the rest of the way to score a touchdown. 849 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:40,880 Speaker 6: Yeah. 850 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 3: And so I think the ignorance on social media at 851 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 3: its abundance doesn't necessarily realize that. And I see more 852 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 3: people talking, and it just reminds me of how I 853 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 3: grew up. How I grew up. No matter what you did, 854 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,799 Speaker 3: somebody had something negative to say, and to me, it 855 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 3: was just because of the trauma that. 856 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 6: They're going through every day. So it didn't matter what happened. 857 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,959 Speaker 3: And so you continue to play this game amongst each other, 858 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,760 Speaker 3: and then it starts. It starts out with two people, 859 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 3: then go to six, and you go to ten and 860 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 3: go to twenty, and before you know it, it becomes 861 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 3: a massive thing. This is psychology and mentality that we 862 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 3: deal with in every day. It's one thing to have 863 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 3: a debate that's in all sports, and I think it's 864 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,439 Speaker 3: necessary amongst fans. It's another thing to want to see 865 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 3: somebody not do well. And it's disguised as debate, but 866 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,839 Speaker 3: what it really is, it's internal hatred of your positioning 867 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 3: for thyself that you have to look in the mirror 868 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 3: every day and deal with. And so I'm extremely happy 869 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,960 Speaker 3: about what we were able to do with Christippins. It 870 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 3: has never been done before. And all I wanted to 871 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,959 Speaker 3: do is make sure I know our heart that young 872 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 3: man worked as well as everyone that we had act 873 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 3: clans last year. 874 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,279 Speaker 6: But he got a raw deal. Man, he got a 875 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 6: raw deal. 876 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,880 Speaker 3: And I was and I was determined. I was determined 877 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,840 Speaker 3: to at least get him to a place to where, Yeah, 878 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 3: if you can, if you're nineteen years old, you can 879 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 3: start with a couple of million dollars in your bank account. Hey, 880 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 3: you can make it from there. Hopefully you can make 881 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 3: it from there. 882 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,479 Speaker 6: And maybe one day a lot of us didn't. 883 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe one day he'll be writing a memoir as well. 884 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,359 Speaker 1: Rich really really appreciate your time and sharing all these 885 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,880 Speaker 1: stories with us. Rich Paul, of course, is founder and 886 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 1: CEO of Clutch Sports Group and co head of Sports 887 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 1: at United Talent Agency. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg 888 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,759 Speaker 1: Business of Sports. We're here each and every week at 889 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,680 Speaker 1: the same time. I'm Scarlet Foo and I'm Damian sat All. 890 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: Tune in again next week for the latest on the 891 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,839 Speaker 1: stories moving big money in the world of sports. You're 892 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,800 Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around 893 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 1: the world.