WEBVTT - Happiness expert Arthur C. Brooks on why we’re all so desperately chasing down happiness 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.920 Hi everyone, I'm Katie Kuric, and this is next question. Today. 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:08.240 We're going to be exploring happiness because we seem to 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:10.879 be obsessed with that as a culture. Just look to 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:14.160 hire ed. Some of the most elite universities tout courses 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:17.080 on happiness, the science of it, the value of it, 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:21.720 the history and future of it. There are podcasts about happiness, 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:25.960 whole genres of earnest TV shows built to temporarily evoke it. 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:29.680 I'm looking at you, Ted Lasso. Why are we all 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:33.640 so smitten with happiness? Is it because the world is burning, 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:38.080 because we're doom scrolling, because the internet makes us want 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:41.440 what we can't have. Let's find out. My guest today 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.400 is none other than happiness expert and one of those 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:49.720 aforementioned happiness scholars, Arthur C. Brooks. Arthur also writes a 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:53.200 regular column for The Atlantic on happiness, and his most 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:57.240 recent book is called From Strength to Strength, Finding Success, 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:00.760 Happiness and Deep Purpose in the Second half of Life. 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:08.920 Here's our conversation, with all due respect, Arthur, what makes you? 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:13.680 What what makes you qualified? And what makes you an 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:17.320 expert on happiness? Yeah? So, I I am a PhD 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.960 social scientist and I have studied behavioral economics and as 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:24.480 social psychological principles my entire career. I started off by 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:28.440 studying beauty and why people admire things, why people love 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:32.160 and are attracted to beauty. Later I was studying philanthropy 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:35.080 and sharitable giving, why people voluntarily serve other people, And 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:38.839 I kept finding that in those two areas, the tap 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:42.759 root was happiness. The tap root was trying to live 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.000 a better life. And so I thought to myself as 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:46.920 I as I got to the middle part of my career, 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:49.840 you know, I'm going to study the main thing, the 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.040 main thing that everybody wants. You know, I have the 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:54.320 I have the skills to look at these things. You know, 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.440 I'm trained and applied statistics and all of these things 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.240 that people suffer through and they're getting their PhDs. But 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.120 it's very easy to get kind of stuck, you know, 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.440 studying marginal things. And when I started talking about the 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:09.200 science of happiness, which there really is a huge science. 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:12.280 I'm really bringing in the neuroscience and the social science 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:15.160 and the philosophy of happiness, and and using my academic 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:18.120 skills to bring these things together, I found everybody wanted 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:20.960 to know more. And this is the magic part of 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:23.639 the Katie. You know, we're all we all have skills, 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:25.480 you know, we've all worked hard to be good at 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.280 what we're doing. The real question for us in our 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.640 careers is the why. And I got to the point 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:33.280 in my life when I said, you know what, the 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:35.400 why of my career is to lift people up and 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:37.680 bring them together. And the way that I can do 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:40.919 that is using my knowledge and my skills to help 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.359 them pursue their happiness. And so I decided I was 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:45.800 going to do that for the rest of my life. 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:49.359 Do you think happiness is the wrong word for what 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:53.200 we're all searching for? Because it can be so fleeting 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:57.400 and so elusive, and I'm not sure if it is 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:02.120 even accurate in terms of what you talk about in 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:05.520 your book, right, Yeah, I know. So that's actually that's 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.160 the first issue that I raised in my class. I 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:09.959 teach a class in the Science of Happiness at the 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.760 Harvard Business School and I have a hundred eight students 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:14.440 in about four hundred on the waiting list. I mean, 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.799 it's it's a class that obviously, hey, kids free candy. 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:19.920 I mean they I mean, happiness is something that they 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:21.760 think they want. And one of the the ways that 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.040 I reasons I use the word happiness is to bring 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:27.000 people in. And then when we're talking with more precision, 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:29.280 we boil it down a little bit more So on 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.640 the first day of class, I say, Okay, you spent 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.560 all your elective points to get into the happiness class. 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:36.240 You obviously must know what it is. So what is 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:37.800 it in a cold column, which is you know? You 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.240 go out and see you Okay, you know what's happiness? 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:43.800 And they'll say, that's the feeling I get when you know, 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:46.240 I see my family and Thanksgiving or something, and I'll 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:49.200 talk about their feelings, and I say, no, that's not right. 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.200 That's like saying that your Thanksgiving dinner is the smell 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:54.960 of the turkey. You wouldn't say that. I mean that 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:58.000 the smell of the turkey is evidence of Thanksgiving dinner, 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.360 and your feelings of happiness are evidence and stuff, something deeper, 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:04.560 more profound, a real phenomenon that you can study and 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:07.360 practice and share. And then we start to develop the 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:09.800 idea and the truth is that happiness is really a 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:15.120 combination of three things, as a combination of enjoyment, satisfaction, 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.600 and purpose. Those are the big three things that people 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.120 are looking for and the truth is you need all 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:24.680 kinds of experiences and emotions, You even need unhappiness to 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.800 get those things. You need a full life, fully alive, 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.760 and and the science actually brings out all those ideas. 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.159 So you're right, we got to get people's attention. But 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.680 happiness is a much deeper phenomenon than just hey, I 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:42.200 feel happy. I think of words like contentment, fulfillment, and 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:47.200 inner peace, even as happneyed as that phrases, when I 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:52.000 think about what one's goal should be. Right, So the 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:54.400 way to think about that, so contentment is really important. 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.560 That's part of satisfaction with life. And so the key 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.200 thing is that all the happiest people they haven't um 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.200 and think about it kind of like the macronutrients. You know, 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:06.920 when you say dinner is protein, carbohydrates and fat. I mean, 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:08.560 it's kind of a clinical way to look at dinner. 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:10.960 It's not very romantic, but you know it's like, join 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.440 me for dinner of protein, carbohydrates and fat. It's not 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:15.039 that great. But the truth is, if you want to 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:18.120 be healthy, you need all those three things in balance 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.000 and abundance. Happiness basically as a way that we need 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.760 to understand how to enjoy our lives, you know, from 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.880 moment to moment, and which is not pleasure. It's it's 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:31.120 something much deeper, something much more human than than than pleasure. 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:34.039 And there's a whole science behind that. Satisfaction is is 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:38.000 the piece that you get when you you achieve something 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:40.800 that you've really worked for. That's the sense of contentment 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.560 with your life because you've met your goals. Now that 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:46.160 can be a curse to Yeah, we'll talk about that 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.080 later because I know I'm dying to talk to you. 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.159 Saction is a real killer, but it can be. But 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:54.640 then there's purpose and meaning and that's the that's really 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:56.799 the deepest of all. You know, what is my life 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.480 all about? You know how? What's the coherence? What's the 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.000 general direction of my life? Why am I alive? And 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.279 that takes a whole lot of work and a whole 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:08.479 lot of suffering for people to understand the answer to 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:10.840 that question, and nobody wants to suffer, and we don't 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:12.240 need to look for it. It It will, in point, in 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.480 fact find all of us. And so those three things altogether, 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.280 they encompassed so many things and so many skills, and 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:20.719 that's what's my privilege to write and teach, But I'm 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:26.279 curious what about our society today has made people have 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:30.240 this yearning to learn more, to do more. I think 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:34.040 if I told my parents when I was growing up, yeah, 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:36.560 you know, I want to be happy, and what can 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.200 we do to be happy? I mean, it does sound 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:45.760 marginally or moderately, I guess self indulgent to say to 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:49.400 our parents generation. I think, but what is happening right 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:54.280 now in the culture where people need this and they 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:57.719 want it and they're yearning for it. Yeah. A couple 0:06:57.720 --> 0:06:59.640 of different things have happened along the way. And I 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:01.760 ever remember I was having a conversation with my dad. 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:04.479 I changed careers. I was a classical musician for a 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:06.120 long time in my late twenties. I knew I was 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:08.080 going to have to change careers and I told my 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:09.479 dad I was going to do and he said, what 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:12.760 You're successful? Things are going well, he said, He said, 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:14.400 why do you want to do that? And I said, Dad, 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:20.880 I'm not happy? And he said, what makes you so special? Right? Totally? Totally, Yeah, 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:22.800 I get it. Well, a couple of things have happened. 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:27.120 Number one is happiness as a science has really exploded. 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:29.840 And two generations ago, or even one generation ago, people 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:31.920 didn't realize that. They really thought it was a nice 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:35.560 to have, you know, good luck, live right, played by 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:37.560 the rules, try to get lucky, you know, when it 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.840 comes to happiness. And we actually know a lot more 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:42.560 than we did about that. In many ways, it follows 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:45.480 the advent of care for mental illness or for even 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:48.240 mood disorders, where you know, in nineteen fifty or even 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:50.720 nineteen sixty, people just had to suffer, and now we 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.040 know that there's a lot that you can do. The 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:55.880 happiness science is not trying to get you from behind 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:59.640 the line of scrimmage to you know, functioning adequately. It's 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:01.880 going for you know, people who are functioning pretty well 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.560 to to be kind of fitness, you know, junkies. There's 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:07.400 sort of people who are in good health, but they 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:09.600 really want to work by going to the gym and 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.400 getting better at that. Another thing that my parents generation 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:16.120 thought was completely crazy. Here's the other problem. That's actually 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:20.040 why there's been such an explosion of interest. Happiness is declining. 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:24.520 We've seen actually happiness and decline since about and you know, 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:27.000 you and I were you know, as like young adults 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:29.560 and these and and you know, in those days and 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:32.079 and I mean, that's pretty extraordinary that it would be 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:36.080 declining at a time when income is going up, when 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:38.320 stand of living is going up, literacy is going up, 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.360 child mortality is going down. Most indicators of what a 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:45.079 good life is are going in one direction, but happiness 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:47.120 is going in the other directions. So you've got to 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.760 ask what's actually going on and when people are I mean, 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:51.880 you don't study air unless you don't have enough of it, 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:54.880 and so that's a little of what's happening to I think, well, 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.679 I thought that there were a lot of things that 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.679 weren't going up. You know, a lot of people, uh 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:04.679 younger generation don't feel that they'll be as successful as 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:09.360 their perrents. They I think, worry about climate change, They 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:12.800 worry about sort of the economy, there's so many They 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:17.360 worry about democracy. So are these things really as good 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:20.120 as you say they are? Well, part of the there 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.719 is the difference between things getting better and what we're 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.240 worried about, what we're worried about the future. And the 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.040 key thing that we all know from our own lives 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.840 is things can be pretty good, but if you're in 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.800 bad shape for your happiness, you're gonna be very worried 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:34.600 about the future, and you're only going to see the 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.360 negative side of everything. So this is a lot of 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:39.760 what we see. Look, there are concerns, there are all 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.480 kinds of things that we need to do differently to. 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:44.720 We do need to work on our democracy, we do 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.800 need to work on on all sorts of social issues 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:51.040 to make our world better. But when people are very 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:53.160 fired up, and quite frankly, there are a lot of 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:55.360 people that are our age that are trying to conscript 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.199 young people as kind of child soldiers into a culture 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:00.120 war and kind of a baby boit more culture are 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.000 on right and left. Let's make everybody is afraid and 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.240 angry as they can possibly be. But they're they're they're 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:08.880 willing to join up forces like that when the when 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:11.440 the happiness is too low, when people are in a 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.240 good place, they're less likely to say, look, I understand 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:17.400 there's problems, but life is pretty good. And when they 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.120 say no, everything's rotten, you know we're all going to 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.400 be in trouble. You know. The truth is that young 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:26.040 people today they have as much opportunity and actually more 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.400 prosperity than people have ever had before. But it's hard 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.240 to see the good things when you don't actually feel 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:34.720 the happiness in the in life around you. Well, let's 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:38.120 talk about that. Why is happiness on the decline? If 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:42.880 in fact things are pretty good and and the world 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.920 is helping along and things are as good as you 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:50.040 say they are, why his happiness declined. It's not as 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.679 if it's great for everybody. I mean, it's like, as 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.360 they say, your results may vary in almost anything, and 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:57.320 so there's some people who truly are suffering. And so 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.960 we don't want to make minimize that. Even if things 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:01.880 are going in the right direction in terms of trends, 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:03.840 we don't you know, individuals might have been having a 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.320 hard time and there's still lots to do. So we 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:08.840 have to emphasize the fact that things aren't perfect and 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:11.560 we all have an opportunity to make things better. So 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:14.360 that's really good. But what happens is when things are 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:18.160 on balance, pretty prosperous and pretty free, but we don't 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:20.679 see it. You have to look to other kinds of forces, 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.200 and what we find is basically that we have a 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:27.120 world that's been kind of torqued towards these idols that 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.360 a lot of young people are falling prey to. Now 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:32.640 one of the great blessings of people our age, Katie, 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.120 is that there was no social media when we were young, 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:37.000 and that means that we didn't have the kind of 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:40.920 social comparison pressures, we didn't have the kind of materialistic pressures. 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.480 We didn't have a sense that everybody's life was great 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:47.160 and ours wasn't so good. But that's a broader case 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:51.480 of people being induced towards these idols of money and 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:56.600 power and pleasure and and the admiration of strangers. Whereas 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:58.840 the one of the great things that we find in 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.080 the in the Science of Happiness says there's really four 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:04.000 big habits that the happiest people have that are that 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:07.600 are not consistent with those idols, and those are faith 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:09.800 or a life philosophy, or something that gives you a 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:11.880 sense of the why of life. It doesn't have to 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:13.680 be your traditional religious faith. It has to be something 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:17.600 that's bigger than you. Family life um, and you you 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:19.880 decide what family life means. But these are the ties 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:22.120 that bind and don't break, and often you don't choose, 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:23.960 and God knows you wouldn't in many cases. But there 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:25.720 are the people who take the two am phone call 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:29.960 friendship as in real friends not deal friends, and last 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:32.400 but not least, it's work where you can serve others. 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.520 And our our society is pushing people away from faith, family, friends, 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:41.240 and work and toward a kind of self worship around money, power, pleasure, 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:44.760 and and fame. And those are just unhealthy things. And 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.840 that's really what explains a good deal of why it's 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:53.440 so hard to just find happiness on your own. When 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:55.679 we come back, did you know living in a cultural 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:59.440 fear actually takes a toll on our happiness? Arthur Brooks 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:13.280 has the to dote right after this, you say, happy 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:17.560 people love people and use things. Unhappy people use people 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:23.040 and love things, which is basically their values and priorities 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:26.079 are clearly not in the right place. Yes, that that's 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:28.720 you know, that's a more concise way of saying. You know, 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:33.840 use people, love things, money, power, pleasure, and fame. Use things, 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:38.880 love people, faith, family, friends, and work that serves other 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.920 than social media. What do you think has caused a 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:47.360 decline in happiness? Is it loneliness and isolation? I know 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.640 that you started writing during the pandemic. You're column for 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:55.679 the Atlantic. Um, you know what other factors are contributing 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.480 to a decline of happiness. One is a big cultural 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:02.959 phenomen on that's very interesting that philosophers have been writing 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:05.079 about for many centuries, which is that you can get 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:08.760 a culture of fear. Now, fear and love are the 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:12.199 opposite emotions. We often think that hatred and love are opposites, 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:14.800 but hatred is a function of fear. And we find 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.239 when we look at the neuroscience of fear, it occupies 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.520 it's the most it's the most prominent negative basic emotion 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.240 produced by the limbic system of the brain. Everybody has 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:26.440 heard of the amygdala as the part of the brain 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.000 that actually the almond shape little things on either side 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.760 of your brain in the olympic system, that they stimulate 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.880 a lot of stress hormones, fight or flight or freeze. 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.600 And what they do is they dominate all of the emotions. Well, 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:43.160 the opposite most basic positive emotion is love. Fear and 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:46.160 love or opposites. And you can have either polarity in 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:50.520 a company or or a family or a whole country. 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.560 And we've been for quite a long time and a 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.520 fear polarity in our policy, in our culture, and that's 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:59.960 hugely problematic. Look, you and I, I mean, we're established, 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:02.320 you know, we have our families, there's a lot that 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:04.720 we can rely upon. But even people our age have 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:06.800 been falling prey to this. Young people, on your other hand, 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:10.080 they're quite vulnerable to the culture of fear and what 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.360 foments it. It's it's politicians that are you know, it's interesting. 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:17.600 I'll tell young people, you know, you are an unwilling 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:20.840 soldier if you hate because somebody's trying to tell you 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.680 that you must hate and you must be afraid. You 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.120 know that person does not have your best interests at heart. 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.920 They're profiting. You're not. As you know, I told us 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.080 in every university campus that I go to, don't be 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.960 a willing participant in the baby boomer culture war with 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:40.440 canceling people you disagree with, you know, with actually weakening 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.200 the fundamentals of our democracy. You know what you're doing 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:45.360 is you're standing up for somebody else's values and you're 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.520 falling prey to this fear. So fear in our culture 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.200 is one of the biggest problems that we have, and 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.360 it's especially affects young people. Well, I would say that 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.480 that cancel culture movement was born on college campuses, not 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:03.440 necessarily in the baby boomer generation, where people who Uh, 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:07.600 didn't agree with you basically were I mean, where there's 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.720 not a free and fair debate on all these issues 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.600 that that you're marginalized, canceled or whatever you want to 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:18.480 call it, um you know, really ostracized if you have 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:21.320 a different point of view. So I'm not sure I 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:25.680 agree with this baby boomer culture war that you ascribed to. Well, 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:27.520 what I find is is, you know, sitting on a 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.240 college campus that it's largely it's a lot of people 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.880 my age that have been promoting these ideas for a 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.000 very long time. And you know, and in creating the 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:40.280 environment where the people who are canceling are not the 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:42.640 people who are actually have been promoting these theories for 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.040 a long time, and these ideas took a long time 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:49.000 to take root. True. We go across generations in this 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:51.520 and the you know, councel culture, which by the way, 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.840 it transcends campuses. You know, it's interesting if you're if 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.560 you're somebody with very progressive politics and you're sitting in 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.720 an evangelical church for example, can so culture is going 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:02.400 to come for you too. If you're you know, if 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:06.200 you're trying to get ahead in in very populist, republican 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:09.960 circles and you have more moderate conservative viewpoints, you're gonna 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:12.520 find cancel culture as well. It's just really acute on 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.800 college campuses, and most ironic because this is supposed to 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.280 be the marketplace of ideas, you know, where all you're 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:21.879 not supposed to feel safe on a college campus. Intellectually, 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:23.800 you're supposed to be like, ah, I just heard something 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:26.320 I really disagree with and now I'm going to engage. 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:30.800 And that's it's it's especially troublesome when on a college campus. 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.399 We we will have this particular campus culture. But but 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:37.080 it's the young people that can actually solve this problem. 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:40.879 How do you fight against the forces of fear and hate? 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.359 Because I know that you write that happiness takes work, 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:48.520 right and discipline and focus. You can't expect it to 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:53.159 just happen. And so for us on a day to 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.399 day basis, how do we try to get out of 0:17:56.440 --> 0:18:01.399 that kind of angry, enraged state that seems to be 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.560 part and parcel of our daily existence. Yeah, it's such 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:07.040 a great question, and and here's the good news. There's 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:08.800 actually a way to do this that all of us 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:10.879 can practice in our own lives, and we can do 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:13.399 it to to you know, make manifest in our country 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:15.359 and our make our world a little bit better. You know, 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.960 there's a famous um you know, Bible versus says perfect 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.440 love drives out fear. But that's an ancient idea. Five 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:25.480 years before that was in you know, the New Testament 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.560 of the Bible. Lao Sue, you know, the founder of 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.760 Taoist philosophy said exactly the same thing. And what they 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:34.080 were talking about is what we have learned as social 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.199 scientists and and and people in the world of neuroscience 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:39.840 have found that these are neutralizing factors on each other. 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:43.800 That fear will neutralize love, but love will neutralize fear 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.280 as well. We don't have to fight against fear. We 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.760 simply need to have more love. All right, give me 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.000 an example, because this does sound sort of woo woo 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:54.800 to me, Arthur like, so, so play this out in 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:57.840 real time and real life. Yeah, So this is what 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:00.159 I do when I go on college campuses. I say, look, 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:02.400 do you want to do you want to weaken the 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:05.720 forces of fear in your life and on your campus. 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.600 You need to make friends with somebody with whom you disagree. 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:11.919 You need to go on social media and say five 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:15.280 loving things where other people are expressing, Hey, you got 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.920 to go out of your way like a missionary, bringing 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:22.000 love on purpose, even when it's uncomfortable. And then I 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:24.119 take it up a notch, right, because one of the 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:26.880 things that you see in a fear based culture very interestingly, 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:29.440 people in their twenties today are a third less likely 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:31.920 to say they're in love than you and I did 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:33.560 when we were that when we were at that age 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.239 in the nineteen eighties. So so what's up with that? 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.240 And the answer is fear is driving out love. So 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:40.280 what I do is I say, Okay, do you want 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.879 to treat your life like an entrepreneur, like a real startup, 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:46.399 then the currency of the explosion of wealth in your 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:48.760 life is actually love. And that means you need to 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:50.879 take a risk, just like an entrepreneur does. And so 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:53.399 all a sign him. I was doing a graduation speech 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.720 not long ago, and I said, here's your homework. Friends, 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.679 you've got two weeks. You need to go tell somebody 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.480 that you you have to say I love you. And 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:04.560 and again, maybe it's a family member with whom you 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:06.960 become a strange maybe some of you're secretly in love with. 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:09.320 Maybe it's a friend and you just don't talk to 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:11.840 each other that way. If it's not uncomfortable and scary, 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:16.119 it's not entrepreneurial enough. And the crazy thing is I 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:20.199 get tons of feedback saying game changer, game changer in 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:22.560 my relationships, in my life, and in the lives of 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:24.800 the people that I'm touching. We need more people they're 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:27.959 willing to say, you know what, I love you. Well, 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:30.840 that's one thing to say to someone in your family 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:34.639 or your spouse or your friends who you don't see. 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:40.520 But what about someone who um is angry and mean 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:45.240 and throwing arrows and daggers into your heart? How do 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:48.440 you how do I do agree with you that that 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:52.119 comes from fear? This this anger comes from fear or hate. 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:56.280 But how do you neutralize that? So that's a that's 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:58.600 a very good question that Martin is the King answered, 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:01.920 and you give a very fam sermon in nineteen fifty seven. 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:05.359 So I want to turn your attention to this subject 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:08.720 loving your enemy. November seventeen, thank you for seven to 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:15.040 the Dexter Street Baptist Church, Montgomery, Alabama that urch DoD 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:20.280 that very famous sermon on on the Gospel of Matthew, 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:26.400 Chapter five, verse forty four. Famous one love your enemy 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:28.560 that we talked about. It is not merely an e 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:34.639 multiple loves, creative understanding, good wills alone. It is a 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:39.320 huge an individual because that's the question you're asking me, Katie, 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:42.120 how do you love your enemies? And here's what he said, 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:45.320 here's what Dr King said. Weird, right, Jesus didn't say 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:48.440 like your enemies, because to like is a sentimental something, 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.080 and there's lots of people we all don't like. Those 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:53.199 are the people insulting you on social media. Those are 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:55.680 the people who are wishing you ill. Those are people 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:59.480 who are unfair and uncivilized. I got it, I got 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:00.879 it in my If you've got them in your life, 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.879 everybody watching us or listening to us has them in 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:08.280 their lives. But to love is a decision, it's a commitment. 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:11.760 It's the only way that we can actually create some redemption. 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:15.879 So the famous philosopher Thomas Aquinas he said that to 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:18.399 love is to will the good of the other. He 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:21.400 didn't say it feel anything. You can. You cannot make 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:24.240 the decision to like somebody, But you can make the 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:27.199 decision to love somebody, because that's an action and you 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:30.399 have to act in a particular way. It's hard. This 0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:33.560 is a hard teaching, but we're really up for it 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:35.960 because what you find and on all of the research 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:38.239 on this is when people start to act out of 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:41.960 love even when they don't feel it, they actually start 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:44.199 to do it on their own. The Dalai Lama one 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:46.399 time told me, you know, I asked him, how do 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:48.880 I love when I don't feel love? He basically told 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:51.800 me to fake it, fake it till you make it. 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:55.240 The Dali Llama. Look, he's the world's most respected religious 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:57.800 figure and he's completely full of love. If the doll 0:22:57.840 --> 0:22:59.439 A Lama says that we can fake it till we 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:02.040 make it and it comes to love, I gotta believe it. 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:08.679 After the Break, It's Striver's Anonymous Arthur shares how to 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:12.640 break a striver's cycle and find a new kind of fulfillment. 0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:28.000 That's right after this. I want to talk to you 0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:31.359 about your book because as a sixty five year old 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:36.639 who has enjoyed some success in my life, I'm fascinated 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:41.080 about sort of how to continue to find fulfillment. And 0:23:41.160 --> 0:23:45.720 I have the confession Arthur's I'm Katie and I'm a striver. 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:50.840 I know you are, and I am sort of the 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:55.520 quintessential person that you talk about in your book, someone 0:23:55.680 --> 0:23:59.280 who always is looking for the next thing. And when 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:02.800 I saw you of that talking at the Aspen Ideas Festival, 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:07.159 I realize this is not all me. A lot of 0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:11.880 it is sort of my brain and dopamine and adrenaline 0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:15.120 that causes me to want more and more and more, 0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:22.240 to keep succeeding, to keep striving, but to keep accomplishing, right, 0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:25.239 And it's striving me crazy. Yeah, I know, I know, 0:24:25.840 --> 0:24:28.040 you and me both. I mean it's like, look, you've 0:24:28.040 --> 0:24:31.520 had this legendary career which you continue to have and 0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:33.960 and and everybody says, look, if I could be if 0:24:33.960 --> 0:24:36.000 I could be half as successful as Katie Kuric, i'd 0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:39.000 automatically be happy. But here's the thing, here's the crazy thing. 0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:42.159 Everybody thinks they want to be happy and successful, but 0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:44.560 if they can only be one, they should be successful 0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:47.720 because then the automatically be happy, and that is incorrect. 0:24:48.200 --> 0:24:51.879 On the contrary, if you're happy, you'll feel successful and 0:24:52.000 --> 0:24:55.040 you get both. Here's the problem with that. Our world 0:24:55.119 --> 0:24:57.600 doesn't do that. Remember, money power pleasure fame. Money power 0:24:57.600 --> 0:25:00.280 pleasure fame is that it's it's and if you start 0:25:00.320 --> 0:25:04.400 to get some success, your brain changes. A little bit 0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:07.000 of brain science and and you've heard me talk about 0:25:07.000 --> 0:25:10.240 this and and it's not very complicated, but it's worth 0:25:10.280 --> 0:25:13.600 pointing out that when people are really addicted to success, 0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:15.320 their brain does more or less the same thing as 0:25:15.359 --> 0:25:18.560 when they're getting addicted to gambling or methamphetamine. You become 0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:22.800 very good at producing dopamine, which is it's called a neuromodulator. 0:25:23.000 --> 0:25:25.480 And what dopamine does is it doesn't give you a pleasure. 0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:28.400 It gives you anticipation of a reward. That's why when 0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:32.000 people get addicted to drugs or alcohol, or gambling or 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:34.440 pornography or any of these bad things that get take 0:25:34.480 --> 0:25:37.040 over people's lives and hurt them, it's because they have 0:25:37.080 --> 0:25:40.240 all this anticipation and they get craving. Now, when people 0:25:40.280 --> 0:25:44.160 are really successful, money, power, pleasure, fame, their brain gives 0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:47.040 them dopamine in anticipation of those rewards. And when you 0:25:47.080 --> 0:25:49.399 get really good at it, because I don't know, just hypothetically, 0:25:49.480 --> 0:25:52.680 let's say you're Katie Kuric, Well, then guess what happens. 0:25:53.119 --> 0:25:57.000 A little is not enough. Your threshold keeps getting more 0:25:57.040 --> 0:25:59.960 and more and more and more. Right, the treadmill starts 0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:03.480 going at terrifying speed. You call it the hedonic tread 0:26:03.560 --> 0:26:05.840 now exactly right now. There's a process in the brain 0:26:05.920 --> 0:26:09.960 called homeostasis. It's a complicated word with a simple idea. 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:12.760 That is to say, your brain resets, I'm gonna be 0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:15.080 so happy when I get that car, I'm gonna be 0:26:15.160 --> 0:26:17.200 so happy when I get that watch or that shirt, 0:26:17.240 --> 0:26:21.000 of that relationship or that achievement. And then you reset 0:26:21.000 --> 0:26:23.760 almost immediately. You think your brain tells you because mother 0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:27.119 nature lies that you're going to actually be satisfied forever. 0:26:27.200 --> 0:26:29.840 You're actually satisfied for a minute or maybe a week 0:26:30.440 --> 0:26:32.760 or I don't know, ten days on the outside, and 0:26:32.800 --> 0:26:35.200 then it's off to the races again. Run run, run, 0:26:35.280 --> 0:26:38.280 run run. That's what we all have to dominate. And 0:26:38.320 --> 0:26:40.639 people who have had a lot of success, that's great 0:26:40.960 --> 0:26:42.919 because these are the people. I mean, look, think of 0:26:42.960 --> 0:26:45.719 all the good things you've done for me, because I've 0:26:45.760 --> 0:26:48.240 been watching you for your You've informed me, you've made 0:26:48.280 --> 0:26:50.760 my life better. But that doesn't mean that along the 0:26:50.760 --> 0:26:53.640 way that has made you happy. So what we all 0:26:53.680 --> 0:26:56.360 need to do with our own kind of success addiction 0:26:56.480 --> 0:26:58.960 And nobody's watching you right now, nobody's gonna be watching 0:26:59.000 --> 0:27:00.919 your show, who's not a little bit of a striver. 0:27:01.400 --> 0:27:04.960 I know your audience that we all can actually dominate 0:27:04.960 --> 0:27:08.560 the system by not going with the flow. Your brain says, 0:27:08.720 --> 0:27:11.200 go more, do more, hit the lever, hit the lever, 0:27:11.280 --> 0:27:13.640 get the cookie. You need to stand up to that 0:27:13.720 --> 0:27:15.679 and behave in a different way. You need to do 0:27:15.720 --> 0:27:18.919 the opposite thing. That's what the research says, and so 0:27:19.040 --> 0:27:21.400 that's probably what we need to talk about. Right. What 0:27:21.560 --> 0:27:24.480 is the opposite thing. The opposite thing is not to 0:27:24.600 --> 0:27:28.680 have more. The opposite thing is to want less. Now, 0:27:28.760 --> 0:27:31.520 I know it sounds weird, but here's the way to 0:27:31.560 --> 0:27:36.720 think about it. Satisfaction finally scratching that itch, finally being 0:27:36.800 --> 0:27:40.920 satisfied is not doesn't just come from having more, doing more, 0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:45.120 seeing more, getting more. It's what you have divided by 0:27:45.200 --> 0:27:48.840 what you want. Everybody remembers a little tiny bit in 0:27:48.880 --> 0:27:51.240 the recesses of their mind about their high school fractions, 0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:54.840 and and you remember that if you've got halves divided 0:27:54.880 --> 0:27:59.400 by wants, there's two ways to increase that number. Increase 0:27:59.480 --> 0:28:03.320 the have or decrease the wants. Here's the deal. We 0:28:03.440 --> 0:28:06.439 actually have the power to want less. We don't have 0:28:06.480 --> 0:28:09.040 to become a Buddhist monk. I mean, if you want to, 0:28:09.200 --> 0:28:12.000 that's great. You know, go study in the cave, that's fantastic, 0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:14.560 or go to a you know, hill land retreat. I've 0:28:14.600 --> 0:28:17.080 done it. I recommend it. It's fantastic, But you don't 0:28:17.080 --> 0:28:19.800 have to do it. The key thing is to think 0:28:19.840 --> 0:28:23.040 about your wants, to not be managed by your wants. 0:28:23.520 --> 0:28:26.520 I have a reverse bucket list. The bucket list is 0:28:26.560 --> 0:28:29.639 all about hals. The reverse bucket list is all about 0:28:29.680 --> 0:28:32.320 wants and what I do on my birthday, Katie, and 0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:34.080 I recommend everybody is I make a list of all 0:28:34.080 --> 0:28:36.520 my cravings. Oh, finally be happy if I have this. 0:28:36.880 --> 0:28:39.040 I'll finally be happy. If my book sells this number 0:28:39.160 --> 0:28:41.520 and I have or I do this thing on TV, 0:28:41.640 --> 0:28:43.760 whatever it happens to be. Everybody's got their thing. I 0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:46.600 get the car, I get whoever. You make a list 0:28:46.600 --> 0:28:48.080 of all those cravings, and you say I might get 0:28:48.080 --> 0:28:50.000 it and I might not. Easy come, easy go. That's 0:28:50.200 --> 0:28:54.920 moved the appetite, the craving, the desire from your automatic 0:28:54.960 --> 0:28:58.800 brain to your human brain to call the prefrontal cortex, 0:28:58.920 --> 0:29:02.520 and there you can manage your cravings. If you're conscious 0:29:02.560 --> 0:29:05.560 of them, you can manage them. It's not perfect, but 0:29:05.720 --> 0:29:10.120 you'll be amazed at how much more satisfying you will 0:29:10.200 --> 0:29:14.080 find ordinary life when you looking at the small things. 0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:16.280 And look. I follow you on social media, and you 0:29:16.480 --> 0:29:19.320 know you're you're putting on social media pictures from your garden. 0:29:19.440 --> 0:29:22.240 I love that, like your flowers and your garden, Katie. 0:29:22.280 --> 0:29:24.640 I love that it's so beautiful on Instagram that you 0:29:24.680 --> 0:29:29.680 do that. That's you enjoying the small. Now to do 0:29:29.760 --> 0:29:32.480 that more, you actually have to be conscious of your 0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:36.040 worldly wants and manage them in that particular way. It's unnatural, 0:29:36.440 --> 0:29:39.080 but we all can do it. It's interesting because you 0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:42.360 talk about preparing for the second half of your life, 0:29:42.600 --> 0:29:45.600 finding success, happiness and deep purpose in the second half 0:29:45.600 --> 0:29:48.880 of your life is the subtitle from Strength to Strength, 0:29:49.440 --> 0:29:53.520 And I think you posit that you really are your 0:29:53.560 --> 0:29:58.680 most successful really by the time you're forty or say fifty, 0:29:58.880 --> 0:30:02.560 that you have fluid into colligence then and then you 0:30:02.680 --> 0:30:06.920 move to something called crystallized intelligence. Explain that Earth, because 0:30:06.920 --> 0:30:08.840 I I know what you mean, but I think for 0:30:08.880 --> 0:30:12.120 people who haven't read the book, explained what you mean. Yeah, 0:30:12.200 --> 0:30:15.680 so there are two kinds of basic intelligence, and the 0:30:15.680 --> 0:30:19.040 world tells you you get one big act. That's the 0:30:19.080 --> 0:30:21.360 world tells you get really really good at what you do, 0:30:21.560 --> 0:30:24.040 be really successful in what you do, and if you're lucky, 0:30:24.080 --> 0:30:26.040 you can keep it going forever. You can't keep it 0:30:26.040 --> 0:30:29.520 going forever. Now, if you're an athlete, you know that, right, 0:30:29.560 --> 0:30:31.479 if you're you know, you're Tom Brady, maybe you can 0:30:31.560 --> 0:30:33.720 keep going forever. But the rest of us mortals can't keep, 0:30:33.720 --> 0:30:35.640 you know, going, And and you know, I actually have 0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:38.680 interviewed Olympic athletes and talk to people and they're they're 0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:40.440 very much in touch with the fact that they can't 0:30:40.480 --> 0:30:42.840 keep going on forever. But it's still really painful. Now. 0:30:42.880 --> 0:30:45.080 The interesting thing that the research finds is that that 0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:48.600 thinking professions, knowledge professions, whether you're a doctoral lawyer, or 0:30:48.600 --> 0:30:52.440 financial professional or an electrician or lots of things, that 0:30:52.560 --> 0:30:54.640 you tend to get better and better and better to 0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:57.080 your twenties and thirties and then max out and then 0:30:57.120 --> 0:30:58.840 you you're not quite as good as you used to be. 0:30:58.880 --> 0:31:02.120 And that's what burn out actually comes from. You know, 0:31:02.320 --> 0:31:05.760 your dentist who suddenly, weirdly at age forty five, says, 0:31:05.800 --> 0:31:08.080 I think I'm gonna take Fridays off to golf. It's like, 0:31:08.160 --> 0:31:10.320 what the heck you loved being a dentist. It's like, 0:31:10.360 --> 0:31:13.080 I don't know, I'm just less interested. That's because your 0:31:13.120 --> 0:31:16.760 dentist isn't progressing and can't quite put her finger on 0:31:16.840 --> 0:31:18.760 why she's not as good at dentist. Thank you for 0:31:19.920 --> 0:31:21.840 a woman. Yeah, I mean, it's like, my dentist is 0:31:21.840 --> 0:31:24.000 a woman, and she's phenomenal. Right, I don't know if 0:31:24.040 --> 0:31:25.800 she's actually I don't think she's forty five yet. But 0:31:26.080 --> 0:31:27.920 the point is, I hope she reads my book. I'm 0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:30.600 gonna take her copy. And so this is this is 0:31:30.600 --> 0:31:32.880 an important thing to keep our to keep our eye on, 0:31:33.000 --> 0:31:35.640 because a lot of people start panicking at this point 0:31:35.720 --> 0:31:38.360 and think, oh, oh no, Well, the truth is, this 0:31:38.440 --> 0:31:41.840 is the time to celebrate because there's another intelligence that 0:31:41.880 --> 0:31:45.320 comes in behind it that's not about hard work and 0:31:45.320 --> 0:31:48.000 focus and and you know, living on the edge of 0:31:48.040 --> 0:31:50.880 the curve, innovative capacity, working memory, all the stuff that 0:31:50.920 --> 0:31:54.040 made you good at what you did. It's about wisdom. 0:31:54.080 --> 0:31:57.000 It's about knowledge about how to explain ideas is how 0:31:57.000 --> 0:32:01.959 to teach, is to go from innovator to instructor. And 0:32:02.080 --> 0:32:04.520 everybody can do that in their own way. I've seen 0:32:04.600 --> 0:32:07.080 you do this in your career. This is the most 0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:10.200 interesting thing. What are you now, your teacher, this is 0:32:10.280 --> 0:32:14.320 what we're doing. You're introducing your audience to big ideas 0:32:14.720 --> 0:32:18.240 that can actually enrich them. What do you your your professor, Kuric, 0:32:18.720 --> 0:32:21.080 you now this is You've naturally moved on to this 0:32:21.360 --> 0:32:25.080 crystallized intelligence curve, and everybody can. There's a transformation if 0:32:25.080 --> 0:32:27.760 you're willing to take it. The people who are unhappy 0:32:27.760 --> 0:32:30.400 are living in the past. The people are happy, they 0:32:30.600 --> 0:32:33.680 jump onto this wisdom curve. I'm gonna teach, I'm gonna 0:32:33.760 --> 0:32:37.800 mentor I'm gonna lead teams. So if you're a sort 0:32:37.840 --> 0:32:41.760 of entrepreneur, that's fluid intelligence. If you're a venture capitalist, 0:32:42.000 --> 0:32:46.160 crystallized intelligence. If you're a star litigator, fluid, if you're 0:32:46.200 --> 0:32:49.239 a managing partner, crystallized You know, I used to do 0:32:49.560 --> 0:32:53.520 highly mathematical research papers on my fluid intelligence curve. Now 0:32:53.560 --> 0:32:55.280 I write for The Atlantic and I talked to you 0:32:55.520 --> 0:32:59.360 crystallized intelligence, and I'm happy. I'm happy or than i've 0:32:59.360 --> 0:33:01.840 ever been because I'm on the right curve. I think 0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:08.480 about professional athletes, I think about CEOs, I think about honestly, 0:33:08.840 --> 0:33:13.560 President Obama, Like, how do they shift from sort of 0:33:13.600 --> 0:33:18.040 being in the epicenter, the white hot center of everything, 0:33:18.520 --> 0:33:22.840 where they have huge responsibility and all lies are on 0:33:23.000 --> 0:33:28.280 them and then shift into a different mode without feeling 0:33:28.400 --> 0:33:31.840 that their best years are behind them, Because I I 0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:37.400 do think about you know, like, how do people manage that? Yeah, 0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:40.880 it's very hard. The more success you have, the harder 0:33:40.920 --> 0:33:42.800 it is. And for a couple of different reasons, you're 0:33:42.840 --> 0:33:45.360 not quite sure that second curve is there. I mean, 0:33:45.400 --> 0:33:47.600 you're taking it on faith from a Harvard professor. That's 0:33:47.640 --> 0:33:50.719 one thing, actually jump in. That's something else. The second is, 0:33:51.160 --> 0:33:53.520 you know a lot of people just love that first curve. 0:33:53.760 --> 0:33:55.520 And the reason they like it is because they get 0:33:55.560 --> 0:33:57.959 all these honors, They get all this they get all 0:33:57.960 --> 0:34:00.400 this admiration, they get all this prestige from it. And 0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:03.280 the more successful and famous you are, the harder it 0:34:03.360 --> 0:34:05.960 is actually to say goodbye to those particular things. But 0:34:06.000 --> 0:34:08.720 the happy people are actually able to make that shift. 0:34:08.960 --> 0:34:11.239 They have the presence of mind. Now. One of the 0:34:11.320 --> 0:34:13.840 things that makes it much easier is they tend to 0:34:13.840 --> 0:34:16.960 be accompanied by somebody who loves them. This is one 0:34:17.000 --> 0:34:19.239 of the things that you actually find and so whether 0:34:19.280 --> 0:34:22.239 it's a best friend, whether it's a spouse, whether it's 0:34:22.239 --> 0:34:25.160 your your adult children. You need somebody who takes you 0:34:25.320 --> 0:34:28.279 by the hand and says, you know what, and this 0:34:28.400 --> 0:34:30.239 is you know, my wife did this for me. My 0:34:30.280 --> 0:34:32.239 wife Ester we even already thirty one years now, and 0:34:32.239 --> 0:34:34.920 and and you know, she said I was retiring. It 0:34:34.960 --> 0:34:37.080 was a CEO, you know, but I did this research 0:34:37.160 --> 0:34:39.360 and I had to I had to stop because I 0:34:39.400 --> 0:34:41.759 saw the writing was on the wall. I was not 0:34:41.840 --> 0:34:44.120 getting better at what I was doing. And so I said, 0:34:44.160 --> 0:34:46.399 I gotta get on the second curve. I know it's 0:34:46.400 --> 0:34:48.200 out there. And she took me by the hand and said, 0:34:48.200 --> 0:34:51.120 it's okay. I love you. You're the father of my 0:34:51.200 --> 0:34:53.799 children and the love of my life. And whether you're 0:34:53.800 --> 0:34:56.759 successful in worldly terms or not, I love you all 0:34:56.800 --> 0:34:59.360 the same. And that is so critically important because a 0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:01.399 lot of people were stuck on that fluid intelligence curve. 0:35:01.440 --> 0:35:05.080 On that first curve, They're like, I'm nothing, I am dead. 0:35:05.680 --> 0:35:08.120 If I'm not number one, if I'm not the striver, 0:35:08.320 --> 0:35:11.719 if I'm not the homo economic aust you know, if 0:35:11.800 --> 0:35:15.279 I'm not the hardest worker in the room. Right, you 0:35:15.320 --> 0:35:18.160 need people who love you. That's really really critical. I'm 0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:23.600 wondering though, if you're inadvertently contributing to the last acceptable 0:35:23.840 --> 0:35:27.160 ism in society, and that's agis um. You know, I 0:35:27.200 --> 0:35:30.319 know that the CEO of Target just said, I'm sixty five, 0:35:30.360 --> 0:35:34.960 I'm not retiring UM And and I wonder if with 0:35:35.000 --> 0:35:39.440 this second phase of life, if you're sort of saying 0:35:39.560 --> 0:35:43.960 to the world, Arthur, you know, if you're not under fifty, 0:35:44.840 --> 0:35:48.120 you you don't have fluid intelligence, you're not at the 0:35:48.160 --> 0:35:50.319 top of your game. You need to go into this 0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:55.400 second stage of life, and you need to leave leave, 0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:59.239 leave the stage. I mean, do you think about that? Yeah? 0:35:59.239 --> 0:36:01.360 I do. But you know what I actually I'm feathering 0:36:01.360 --> 0:36:03.279 my own nest as I get older. I'm fifty eight 0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:04.759 years old, and I want to be working for a 0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:08.000 long time, but where I'm best suited to work. So 0:36:08.080 --> 0:36:11.480 this is the key thing. Here's what I have this view, Katie. 0:36:11.800 --> 0:36:14.280 You know, one of I look at these Silicon Valley firms, 0:36:14.280 --> 0:36:16.680 these tech firms and social media firms and all that, 0:36:16.719 --> 0:36:19.840 and they're making all these errors that older executives to 0:36:19.880 --> 0:36:21.960 shake their heads like how do they make that error? 0:36:22.160 --> 0:36:27.000 The reason is because all fluid intelligence, no crystallized intelligence. 0:36:27.200 --> 0:36:30.399 In other words, it's all brains, no wisdom, and that's 0:36:30.400 --> 0:36:32.799 a big problem because they're making all the mistakes that 0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:35.440 that all the older guys and women they made a 0:36:35.480 --> 0:36:38.680 thousand years ago and their careers. My view is that 0:36:38.760 --> 0:36:42.080 we need way more people in positions of leadership or 0:36:42.160 --> 0:36:45.879 over seventy, that's my view, using their crystallized intelligence, not 0:36:46.000 --> 0:36:48.600 relying on their fluid intelligence. You know, that's what we need. 0:36:48.640 --> 0:36:51.640 I think every executive team, every C suite needs somebody 0:36:51.640 --> 0:36:55.240 over seventy, every marketing team, every product team, these social 0:36:55.280 --> 0:36:58.600 media companies, they need old people who actually can say 0:36:58.600 --> 0:37:00.759 and so my view is that no, on the contrary, 0:37:01.080 --> 0:37:04.640 this is the permanent employment plan for us, as long 0:37:04.680 --> 0:37:06.799 as we're actually doing it right and not trying to 0:37:06.840 --> 0:37:08.520 live in the past. Is the way that it works. 0:37:08.880 --> 0:37:11.759 The impetus I guess for this book was when you 0:37:11.800 --> 0:37:14.880 were sitting in an airplane and you were listening to 0:37:14.960 --> 0:37:19.040 a really sad and upsetting conversation an older gentleman talking 0:37:19.080 --> 0:37:22.080 to his wife saying, my life is over. I kind 0:37:22.080 --> 0:37:26.279 of wish I were dead, and you take it from there. Yeah, so, 0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:29.080 you know, I was kind of a tender point in 0:37:29.080 --> 0:37:31.160 my life, you know, I had been running this thing 0:37:31.200 --> 0:37:33.839 tank in Washington, d C. It had been going really, 0:37:33.880 --> 0:37:36.560 really well, but I was wondering, you know, what is 0:37:36.600 --> 0:37:38.320 the cadence of my own life? Where am I going? 0:37:38.440 --> 0:37:40.040 Where does this I just do it again and do 0:37:40.080 --> 0:37:42.239 it again and do it again and then stop, and 0:37:42.280 --> 0:37:44.439 they just hope for the best. And you know, hanging 0:37:44.440 --> 0:37:47.080 around the house, I don't know, you know, ten years, 0:37:47.080 --> 0:37:49.080 fifteen years from hours going to go. And I was 0:37:49.160 --> 0:37:51.880 kind of contemplating that existentially, And when I heard this conversation, 0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:55.200 I overheard it. Now, as a behavioral social scientist, my 0:37:55.320 --> 0:37:59.640 laboratory is the overheard conversation. So for everybody watching and 0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:01.680 listening to us right now, if you're behind me in 0:38:01.719 --> 0:38:04.399 a Starbucks confessing that somebody broke your heart, keep your 0:38:04.480 --> 0:38:07.360 voice down because I might write a book about it anyway. 0:38:07.760 --> 0:38:10.120 So I I hear this conversation this couple behind me 0:38:10.160 --> 0:38:12.120 on the plane in this key moment in my own life, 0:38:12.560 --> 0:38:14.400 and you know, he's kind of mumbling, but here his 0:38:14.440 --> 0:38:16.400 wife's saying, oh, don't say it would be better if 0:38:16.400 --> 0:38:19.040 you were dead, And I'm like, holy moldy, I wasn't. 0:38:19.040 --> 0:38:22.000 I'm not eavesdropping, but this is big and and and 0:38:22.000 --> 0:38:24.440 and she's trying to console him, and he's really unconsolable 0:38:24.560 --> 0:38:27.840 the fact that nobody cares about him, nobody's listening to him. Okay, 0:38:27.880 --> 0:38:29.920 so we land at the air this is a night flight. 0:38:30.160 --> 0:38:32.800 We land at the airport at our destination. Everybody stands 0:38:32.880 --> 0:38:35.400 up and the lights go on, and and we turn around. 0:38:36.360 --> 0:38:38.479 I wanted to see him. I just wanted to see 0:38:38.480 --> 0:38:41.080 his face. And it was one of the most famous 0:38:41.120 --> 0:38:44.480 successful men in the world. This is somebody that everybody knows. 0:38:44.520 --> 0:38:47.920 Now why he's a hero from decades past. Is not 0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:53.240 some controversial actor you know, or you know, politician, No, no, no, 0:38:53.280 --> 0:38:55.880 this is this is somebody who did big things that 0:38:55.920 --> 0:38:58.560 we all admire, and and you know it's in his 0:38:58.640 --> 0:39:02.040 late eighties and and and and he's he's confessing this thing. 0:39:02.120 --> 0:39:04.040 So we're walking out of the airplane, and the pilot, 0:39:04.080 --> 0:39:05.719 you know how, they all stand by the cockpit door 0:39:05.840 --> 0:39:08.840 thing thanks for flying United folks, and he stops. The 0:39:08.920 --> 0:39:11.360 guy who's right behind me. Blowing my mind at this 0:39:11.400 --> 0:39:14.120 point because you know, the whole model of success is wrong. 0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:16.560 If I could be half as successful as that guy, 0:39:16.560 --> 0:39:20.200 I'd be automatically happy over the moon, right no wrong, okay. 0:39:20.239 --> 0:39:22.160 So he sees the guy, the hero on the plane 0:39:22.200 --> 0:39:25.239 and he says, sir, you've been my hero since I 0:39:25.280 --> 0:39:27.960 was a little boy. And I turned around and he's 0:39:28.480 --> 0:39:31.919 beaming with pride. And I asked myself, so which is it? 0:39:32.000 --> 0:39:34.640 Is it this one or the one half an hour ago? 0:39:35.200 --> 0:39:38.680 And I thought to myself, our model of success and 0:39:38.719 --> 0:39:42.560 happiness is wrong. In truth, the data are very clear 0:39:42.800 --> 0:39:45.200 that people who tend to be most disappointed with their 0:39:45.239 --> 0:39:48.000 lives after seventy and eighty are the ones who are 0:39:48.160 --> 0:39:51.160 most successful early on. And the reason is because they 0:39:51.160 --> 0:39:54.320 can't live up to their own standards. They're addicted to success. 0:39:54.760 --> 0:39:56.759 And now the party's over. And they if you look, 0:39:56.800 --> 0:39:58.200 if you don't do anything with your life, you all 0:39:58.239 --> 0:40:00.640 know when the party's over. But boy, oh boy, if 0:40:00.640 --> 0:40:02.560 you do a lot, you're really going to know. And 0:40:02.600 --> 0:40:04.759 I said, I'm going in search of the secret to 0:40:04.800 --> 0:40:08.480 be both successful and happy. And that's what this book is. 0:40:08.840 --> 0:40:10.480 It's the book that I needed in my life. I 0:40:10.480 --> 0:40:12.840 wrote it for you to um, I'm actually writing a 0:40:12.840 --> 0:40:15.359 book right now about the things I wish I knew 0:40:15.360 --> 0:40:18.320 when I was twenty five, which is the science of happiness. 0:40:18.320 --> 0:40:20.439 For the young striver that's coming next. But I didn't 0:40:20.480 --> 0:40:22.600 get that book because that book hadn't been written yet. 0:40:23.000 --> 0:40:25.359 And I and I've really lived according to it. And 0:40:25.400 --> 0:40:28.040 you can be successful and happy, but you can't leave 0:40:28.040 --> 0:40:31.000 it up to chance. I mean, mother nature is not 0:40:31.040 --> 0:40:33.520 going to take you in that direction. And so what 0:40:33.600 --> 0:40:35.640 do you think the guy sitting behind you in the 0:40:35.680 --> 0:40:38.840 airplane did wrong? What he was doing was he was 0:40:39.280 --> 0:40:43.360 reliving past glory and wishing that he could keep that 0:40:43.440 --> 0:40:46.680 alive forever. And it turns out that's very common. In 0:40:46.760 --> 0:40:49.000 the book, I talked about the case of Charles Darwin, 0:40:49.080 --> 0:40:51.680 you know, the great naturalist, and everybody knows what a hero, 0:40:51.840 --> 0:40:54.480 what a great figure he was. He buried at Westminster 0:40:54.560 --> 0:40:57.719 Abbey because he's such a national hero. He died an 0:40:57.760 --> 0:41:00.360 unhappy man, and the reason is because he kind of 0:41:00.360 --> 0:41:03.120 got to the end of his fluid intelligence. He wanted 0:41:03.160 --> 0:41:06.000 to stay on that curve. He never moved curves, and 0:41:06.040 --> 0:41:08.160 he spent the last twenty five years of his life 0:41:08.239 --> 0:41:10.200 kind of regretting the fact that he couldn't make any 0:41:10.200 --> 0:41:12.960 more progress, and he didn't enjoy his research, and he 0:41:13.000 --> 0:41:14.920 felt kind of washed up and kind of like a loser. 0:41:15.280 --> 0:41:19.920 Charles Darwin, one of the greatest naturalist scientists who's ever lived, 0:41:20.480 --> 0:41:23.600 died unhappy for the same reason that so many people do. 0:41:23.719 --> 0:41:26.640 If I could talk to any of these people, I 0:41:26.680 --> 0:41:30.239 would talk about the structure of the brain that how 0:41:30.360 --> 0:41:33.319 that the fluid intelligence goes to the crystallized intelligence, and 0:41:33.400 --> 0:41:36.080 happiness is right in front of them if they're willing 0:41:36.120 --> 0:41:38.279 to grab it and change their own lives. How do 0:41:38.360 --> 0:41:41.759 they recognize or how does anyone recognize when it's time 0:41:41.800 --> 0:41:46.200 to jump to the second curve that your fluid intelligence 0:41:46.520 --> 0:41:49.840 is drying up and you need to go for the 0:41:49.920 --> 0:41:54.319 crystallized intelligence and you need to make that shift not 0:41:54.400 --> 0:41:57.160 only in your head, but in your heart and your 0:41:57.239 --> 0:42:00.840 habits to begin with. It's a really good idea to 0:42:00.840 --> 0:42:04.120 to understand this before you need it, right, And not 0:42:04.160 --> 0:42:05.960 all of us do. I mean, it's not all of 0:42:06.040 --> 0:42:07.400 us have been able to have that, But you know 0:42:07.400 --> 0:42:09.720 everybody's listening to us who's thirty and as a striver 0:42:09.960 --> 0:42:12.600 and you know who you are right to start thinking, 0:42:12.880 --> 0:42:15.200 I'm doing this right now, and I'm in this is 0:42:15.239 --> 0:42:18.640 a great party. But what only the crystallized version of 0:42:18.640 --> 0:42:20.960 what I'm good at? What might it look like just 0:42:21.000 --> 0:42:23.680 to kind of visualize a little bit because twenty years 0:42:23.680 --> 0:42:25.920 from now you might want to be thinking about that. 0:42:26.000 --> 0:42:29.040 You don't have to change careers necessarily, although that's not 0:42:29.080 --> 0:42:31.319 out of the question either, But what might it look like? 0:42:31.360 --> 0:42:34.120 What's your flight of fancy? What would give you joy 0:42:34.200 --> 0:42:36.600 to think about? This? Really a crystallized kind of kind 0:42:36.600 --> 0:42:39.560 of skill, that's number one. But the key thing is 0:42:39.600 --> 0:42:43.360 that that that that that people need to they'll see 0:42:44.040 --> 0:42:47.440 that they're that the fluid intelligences decline way before anybody 0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:50.680 else does, and the tell is burnout. That's the tell. 0:42:51.239 --> 0:42:53.319 You know, when people start saying, I used to like 0:42:53.440 --> 0:42:55.719 this more than I than I do. Now this used 0:42:55.760 --> 0:42:58.440 to excite me more than it does now, that means 0:42:58.520 --> 0:43:02.720 you're not making progress. People are wired for progress. Human 0:43:02.760 --> 0:43:06.400 beings get no pleasure from the status quo. We're not 0:43:06.440 --> 0:43:08.200 wired for It's very interesting, you know. One of the 0:43:08.200 --> 0:43:11.920 things that I've studied is is you know diets, diets 0:43:11.960 --> 0:43:15.640 have a failure rate, right, I mean, what industry can 0:43:15.640 --> 0:43:19.200 continue to exist? It exists on hope, not results. Now, 0:43:19.280 --> 0:43:23.040 here's the thing. Dieting is pretty easy, but keeping weight 0:43:23.080 --> 0:43:27.040 off is near impossible. The reason is because you're perfectly 0:43:27.080 --> 0:43:29.160 willing to forego the food that you love as long 0:43:29.200 --> 0:43:31.200 as the CD is going down, because you know that 0:43:31.280 --> 0:43:33.480 the happiness from the scale going down is higher than 0:43:33.480 --> 0:43:36.720 the unhappiness from not eating scones or donuts or something 0:43:36.760 --> 0:43:39.440 like that. But then when you reach your goal weight, 0:43:39.880 --> 0:43:42.000 the reward is you never get to eat ever again 0:43:42.040 --> 0:43:45.080 what you like. That's not a very nice reward, and 0:43:45.160 --> 0:43:48.680 so people abandon the diet. That's all about progress. People 0:43:48.760 --> 0:43:51.799 love progress, but the status quo is terrible. So you're 0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:57.080 gonna notice, you know, maybe whatever happens to be, I 0:43:57.120 --> 0:43:59.680 like it less. That's when it's time to start thinking 0:43:59.680 --> 0:44:02.200 about the second curve. That's when it's trying to start 0:44:02.239 --> 0:44:05.320 thinking about the reverse bucket list. So you're not adding adding, 0:44:05.320 --> 0:44:08.320 adding adding, that's when it start. It's time to actually 0:44:08.680 --> 0:44:11.080 think about who's going to hold me by the hand, 0:44:11.200 --> 0:44:13.640 who is in part of my root system. That's when 0:44:13.640 --> 0:44:16.480 it's time to start thinking what are the friendships that 0:44:16.560 --> 0:44:19.840 I actually need? What are the spiritual relationships that I 0:44:19.840 --> 0:44:22.799 can actually cultivate? And if you do these things, so 0:44:22.880 --> 0:44:25.319 I wrote the book, this could be the greatest, most 0:44:25.440 --> 0:44:29.000 joyful adventure in life. This is the best time of life. 0:44:29.000 --> 0:44:31.239 But if you don't do it. It's like walking through 0:44:31.239 --> 0:44:33.680 a forest at night with no guide and no flashlight. 0:44:34.800 --> 0:44:38.520 What are things every person can do to kind of 0:44:38.600 --> 0:44:44.600 have a a more fulfilling, purposeful life, that that has 0:44:44.719 --> 0:44:50.920 more love than fear, and that that that can just 0:44:51.000 --> 0:44:54.279 sort of feed you in a way, the all with 0:44:54.400 --> 0:44:57.600 all the right things and not all the wrong things. Yeah, 0:44:57.840 --> 0:44:59.800 the couple of things to keep in mind the f 0:45:00.239 --> 0:45:01.960 is that all these things that I write, all these 0:45:02.040 --> 0:45:04.160 things that I teach, that I'm privileged to be able 0:45:04.200 --> 0:45:07.279 to talk to you about, all these things are accessible 0:45:07.320 --> 0:45:09.400 to everybody. You don't need to be a nerd with 0:45:09.440 --> 0:45:12.720 the PHDU teaches at Harvard to actually learn about these ideas. 0:45:12.760 --> 0:45:14.680 I write about this in the Atlantic because I want 0:45:14.719 --> 0:45:17.759 to bring these ideas to millions of people in relatively 0:45:17.760 --> 0:45:20.000 non technical terms. You don't have to be a technical 0:45:20.040 --> 0:45:23.240 specialist to understand that. But you've got to do the work. 0:45:23.719 --> 0:45:26.640 Wishing is not enough. Just wishing you were happier, we'll 0:45:26.640 --> 0:45:29.200 make you unhappier because you'll focus on your unhappiness. But 0:45:29.280 --> 0:45:33.680 if you do the work that's habits, not hacks, committing 0:45:33.680 --> 0:45:36.399 yourself to living in a better way, in a newer way. 0:45:36.960 --> 0:45:39.759 This is magic. That's part one. Part two is this, 0:45:40.200 --> 0:45:42.759 You've got to practice these things. You can't just learn 0:45:42.800 --> 0:45:44.719 about these You gotta practice these things in your life. 0:45:44.760 --> 0:45:47.200 You get, I get. I can teach you that gratitude 0:45:47.239 --> 0:45:50.440 is one of the greatest tricks. But it's not enough 0:45:50.480 --> 0:45:51.600 for to be a trick. It's got to be a 0:45:51.600 --> 0:45:54.160 way of life. And so practice these things and and 0:45:54.200 --> 0:45:57.000 committing yourself to doing it is like going to the gym, 0:45:57.160 --> 0:45:59.719 not once, it's going to the gym five days a week, 0:45:59.800 --> 0:46:01.560 or alorities a week, or whatever happens to be, and 0:46:01.560 --> 0:46:03.480 then you start to see a transformation. You enjoy it 0:46:03.520 --> 0:46:05.560 and will last but not least, You've got to share 0:46:05.600 --> 0:46:07.960 these ideas. Look, we've talked about a whole bunch of 0:46:07.960 --> 0:46:10.960 science and very accessible terms. Here's what I would wish 0:46:11.200 --> 0:46:12.759 that will really help a lot of people who are 0:46:12.760 --> 0:46:15.960 watching us to make these ideas come to life. Find 0:46:16.080 --> 0:46:19.319 three people that you love and and if you need 0:46:19.360 --> 0:46:22.880 to watch our our conversation again and take notes and 0:46:22.920 --> 0:46:25.120 go teach these things. You know what that'll do is 0:46:25.160 --> 0:46:29.000 it will move them from an impression to the executive 0:46:29.040 --> 0:46:31.600 center of your brain. You know, becoming a teacher is 0:46:31.640 --> 0:46:34.360 the best possible way to absorb ideas. My father was 0:46:34.400 --> 0:46:37.600 a mathematician. He said, I only understood math when I 0:46:37.600 --> 0:46:40.640 had taught calculus fifty times, you know. And the truth is, 0:46:40.880 --> 0:46:43.799 we can all be happiness teachers. And the more that 0:46:43.920 --> 0:46:47.000 we are bringing these secrets in a spirit of love 0:46:47.080 --> 0:46:49.960 and sisterhood and brotherhood to everybody we possibly can, the 0:46:50.040 --> 0:46:53.680 happier we're going to get. In other words, understand practice 0:46:54.320 --> 0:46:56.879 and share. A lot of this is in the book. 0:46:56.920 --> 0:46:59.720 You talk about living in the present, but that takes 0:46:59.760 --> 0:47:02.239 this a plant, you know, and I think you say, 0:47:02.320 --> 0:47:05.280 someone said we shouldn't be called homo sapiens, we should 0:47:05.280 --> 0:47:09.480 be called homo prospective. That means we're always in the 0:47:09.520 --> 0:47:12.920 future and we're not really present right now. Yeah, exactly. 0:47:13.360 --> 0:47:15.040 And that takes, you know, take it takes a little 0:47:15.040 --> 0:47:18.120 bit of effort. There's a whole mindfulness meditation movement going 0:47:18.160 --> 0:47:22.000 on out there, but it really isn't that complicated. You 0:47:22.080 --> 0:47:24.920 gotta you have to be alive now, you know, when 0:47:24.960 --> 0:47:27.560 you're washing the dishes, say I'm washing the dishes now, 0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:30.160 don't distract yourself from everything. When you're on the train, 0:47:31.000 --> 0:47:33.720 look out the window and actually be on the train 0:47:33.760 --> 0:47:36.879 at that particular moment. That's the real magic of mindfulness 0:47:36.880 --> 0:47:39.719 that I've found, and it's really quite transformed my life. 0:47:39.760 --> 0:47:42.360 Katie's when I found because I saw theoretically in the 0:47:42.400 --> 0:47:44.319 literature is gonna make me happier, And now I do it. 0:47:44.560 --> 0:47:48.000 I go on these walks for an hour with no devices, 0:47:48.120 --> 0:47:50.560 and I smell the morning air and I stopped when 0:47:50.560 --> 0:47:52.680 I look at flowers. I'm telling you, I mean, it's 0:47:52.719 --> 0:47:55.359 just it sounds so dumb. I'm a fifty eight year 0:47:55.400 --> 0:47:57.719 old man, I should know this at this point. It's 0:47:57.800 --> 0:48:01.520 just the best. When I read about that, I also thought, yes, 0:48:01.560 --> 0:48:03.360 I want to live in the moment, but I also 0:48:03.400 --> 0:48:06.239 want to care about the future. I want to be 0:48:06.440 --> 0:48:12.520 a concerned citizen who is focused on helping people preserve 0:48:12.600 --> 0:48:17.040 the planet. So how do those things work in tandem. 0:48:17.239 --> 0:48:20.520 You're much better at actually thinking clearly about a better 0:48:20.560 --> 0:48:23.880 future when you're fully present right now. The reason is 0:48:23.920 --> 0:48:27.600 because your love relationships blossom, you appreciate the things that 0:48:27.640 --> 0:48:30.239 you're actually seeing. You don't have a full appreciation for 0:48:30.280 --> 0:48:33.200 the people and the things around you unless you're fully 0:48:33.200 --> 0:48:35.279 mindful right now, and as such, you won't be able 0:48:35.280 --> 0:48:37.480 to create a future. You will be able to envision 0:48:37.480 --> 0:48:39.719 a future that actually is better than the status quo. 0:48:39.920 --> 0:48:42.279 Here's the best news about being here now. It makes 0:48:42.280 --> 0:48:49.319 you better in the future as well. A big thank 0:48:49.360 --> 0:48:51.879 you to my guests Arthur C. Brooks. You can find 0:48:51.920 --> 0:48:55.480 many of his happiness insights at The Atlantic and go 0:48:55.600 --> 0:48:58.759 check out his book From Strength to Strength to start 0:48:58.880 --> 0:49:07.160 living your best life now. Next Question with Katie Kurik 0:49:07.280 --> 0:49:10.160 is a production of I Heart Media and Katie Curic Media. 0:49:10.480 --> 0:49:14.600 The executive producers Army, Katie Curic, and Courtney Litz. The 0:49:14.680 --> 0:49:19.560 supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements and 0:49:19.800 --> 0:49:24.440 Adriana Fasio. The show is edited and mixed by Derrick Clements. 0:49:24.480 --> 0:49:27.440 For more information about today's episode, or to sign up 0:49:27.440 --> 0:49:30.160 for my morning newsletter, wake Up Call, go to Katie 0:49:30.200 --> 0:49:32.840 Currek dot com. You can also find me at Katie 0:49:32.880 --> 0:49:36.560 Curic on Instagram and all my social media channels. For 0:49:36.640 --> 0:49:39.799 more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the I heart 0:49:39.880 --> 0:49:43.399 Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your 0:49:43.440 --> 0:49:44.240 favorite shows.