Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories.
Speaker 4: Done done.
Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to That's Messed Up.
Speaker 2: I'm Kara and I'm Lisa, and here we talk about
Speaker 2: SVU True Crime. We have celeb guests today. As a
Speaker 2: real barn burner totally. That's a saying I know from
Speaker 2: big business, but I actually am here to confront Kara
Speaker 2: and Casey. Uh oh, yeah, that's what we're starting with.
Speaker 2: I got cards, Yeah, yeah, that's the cards. I got
Speaker 2: a lot of dms that you guys are gaslighting me
Speaker 2: that of course I've mentioned it, and that you're gas lighters.
Speaker 3: Cue the Dixie Chicks.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: A couple people a gasler.
Speaker 1: A couple of people said, wait, I don't remember Lisa
Speaker 1: talking about the cards either, And I've been a Day
Speaker 1: one listener and.
Speaker 3: I was like, what is happening is there?
Speaker 1: Like like, I'm sorry, as you talked about it more,
Speaker 1: I was like, I do remember something about this.
Speaker 3: But then when you did say, I go, when did
Speaker 3: you start this?
Speaker 1: You go December? It had only been six months. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like we've been talking about it for years.
Speaker 3: I just what do you have to say.
Speaker 5: I'm just I'm shocked to hear this information. You know,
Speaker 5: I listen intently to every single yes.
Speaker 3: And he listened over again.
Speaker 1: He has to cut out all of our arms and
Speaker 1: beeps and bops and boobs.
Speaker 3: He listened so much.
Speaker 5: You know, I guess Lisa, she just has so many passions.
Speaker 5: It's just hard to keep them all documented in my brain.
Speaker 6: You know, it's hard.
Speaker 3: Apologize. I'm sorry, I apologize.
Speaker 1: Wait wait, can I tell you we got a fun
Speaker 1: dm we somebody one of our listeners called the doom
Speaker 1: Wa pod cast and talked about us on the Desmois
Speaker 1: podcast that we got tea about Christopher Maloney being kind
Speaker 1: of hard to work with.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, we're on demoit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the episode the Desmois episode podcast episode from last
Speaker 1: week or stuthing like, well, I don't know when it'll
Speaker 1: be two weeks old now when this episode comes out,
Speaker 1: but it's the Kylie Jenner Timothy Shalomet episode that's in
Speaker 1: the last couple of their episodes, and it's around the
Speaker 1: fifty two minute mark. Somebody called it and said, well,
Speaker 1: I listened to the That's Messed Up podcast and she
Speaker 1: shouts out that that's our podcast and says well.
Speaker 3: Like and then the Dumoi girl was like, yeah, you're giving.
Speaker 1: Me the tea here, like, because I think the girl
Speaker 1: was calling to be like, do you have any other
Speaker 1: has anyone ever also told you this? And she was like, no,
Speaker 1: you're giving me the tea here, like I had not
Speaker 1: heard that from anybody else.
Speaker 2: Wow, this is huge my Yeah, I have some friends
Speaker 2: that are gonna.
Speaker 3: Be really excited about that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And another friend just texted me yesterday was like, you
Speaker 1: know you're on DEMI right, and I was like, yes,
Speaker 1: I thought I texted you about it.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry I forgot to tell you. No, it's so excited. Yeah.
Speaker 3: But so yeah, we're a little des Mois crossover. But wow.
Speaker 2: Speaking of Timothy and Kylie though, you know they went
Speaker 2: to O Mary, o'mary great at the Tony's Congratulations, Congratulations
Speaker 2: the director one as well, I don't know him, Sam
Speaker 2: Pinkleton or Pinkton something like that.
Speaker 3: Yes, he won as well, and it becomes her one
Speaker 3: like a stage.
Speaker 2: Which deserved. The costumes were incredible. I do wish Audra
Speaker 2: McDonald won and not a trumper.
Speaker 3: But hey, what are you gonna do? What are you
Speaker 3: gonna do? But I heard I'm gonna go to Boop.
Speaker 2: I'm going to Boop Boop the musical it's about Betty Boop.
Speaker 3: And people were telling me the it's like a younger actress.
Speaker 2: Obviously it's Betty Boop, that she is like an Audre
Speaker 2: in the making, that she is beyond that she was
Speaker 2: the face like also a favorite of the theater. Like
Speaker 2: people say she is beyond and so I'm gonna try
Speaker 2: to go see that.
Speaker 3: As we get your butt to Boop.
Speaker 1: I was seeing a lot of hate about Nicole, people
Speaker 1: saying that in her acceptance speach she was like acting
Speaker 1: and not like really crying, but like kind of pretending
Speaker 1: she was crying.
Speaker 3: But the woman's fifty and she's looking good. Nicoles like
Speaker 3: fifty dude. Oh the Pussycat dolls.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I mean that was what two thousand, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean I guess that makes sense. I just didn't know. Yeah, listen,
Speaker 2: I guess it was the most like streamed and watched
Speaker 2: Tony Cynthia Revo fuck yeah, Like she didn't have to
Speaker 2: host the tonys.
Speaker 3: No, and then what I mean that's cool?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a couple of beat George Clooney, like, that's
Speaker 2: so cool.
Speaker 1: We and we recognized a couple of people that we
Speaker 1: know in the opening sketch, Drew Drogi and a legend
Speaker 1: of La Comedy and Tim Murray, who's so funny.
Speaker 2: I think, yes, Yeah, it was exciting. I feel like
Speaker 2: theater had an amazing year, like cool stuff. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: like succession girl, I should have seen that. I should
Speaker 2: have there a snook.
Speaker 1: Yeah that I didn't know the one that won the
Speaker 1: musical and was like best Musical, right, Like I didn't.
Speaker 3: Know about those. I guess a robot. It's like a
Speaker 3: robot one.
Speaker 2: I don't know it's about Oh, it's about two discarded.
Speaker 3: Robots like singing along.
Speaker 2: But I did see that a Glee person has one
Speaker 2: of Tony in the past four years.
Speaker 1: Every year in the past four years, somebody from Glee
Speaker 1: has won a Tony. Interesting, they got to keep up
Speaker 1: the Glee streak. Yeah, Darren Chris was the one this year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I loved, I loved Wait what did they ask Oh,
Speaker 1: they asked cole in a in an interview like on
Speaker 1: The Red carpet. I'm sure you've seen it. They were like,
Speaker 1: what did you think when you read the Patty article?
Speaker 1: And they were like, I don't know how to read.
Speaker 1: It was so like Mary Todd Lincoln coated. And then
Speaker 1: they go, I actually just think it should.
Speaker 3: Be left up to the states. Yeah, I think it
Speaker 3: should be left up to the states.
Speaker 1: It was so funny, and it was just like you
Speaker 1: could tell they were improvising and just so, oh, there
Speaker 1: are a talent. There are a talent of a generation.
Speaker 1: And Jeff yourself was there with coal.
Speaker 3: It was it was cool. Yeah, it was like a
Speaker 3: it's exciting.
Speaker 2: I didn't watch the whole thing, you know, I've just
Speaker 2: been putting pieces together, but it was a thrilling one.
Speaker 3: And all of you, I'd like you to know.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm I'm coming to you live from Mexico, outside
Speaker 2: of Yes, outside of Guadalajara, beaming in from Mexico.
Speaker 3: And my mom's eightieth birthday.
Speaker 1: This episode comes out the day after my mom's birthday,
Speaker 1: and she's really right behind your mom.
Speaker 2: Pretty pretty soon I have so I got there's a
Speaker 2: store I love in my neighborhood. It's mostly house stores,
Speaker 2: but they have some like costume jewelry, and some of
Speaker 2: it's gold plated because my mom doesn't do fake shit.
Speaker 2: But I found this necklace. It was a little kookie,
Speaker 2: but it was like the pendant was a thing of grapes.
Speaker 2: It was like purple and green, but it was like grapes,
Speaker 2: a bushel of a bush. What is it called, not
Speaker 2: a bushel, a bunch of grapes whatever, Yeah, with a
Speaker 2: gold chain. And I was like, we'll see. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I really like I think she'll like it. Even though
Speaker 2: it's a little cartoony with the grapes. The bitch comes
Speaker 2: out of her bedroom wearing all purple for her birthday dinner.
Speaker 3: I couldn't believe it. I could not believe it.
Speaker 2: I go, I think I'm gonna do gifts before dinner
Speaker 2: and a grape nick and love it. She loved it
Speaker 2: and she put it on perfect. It was really exciting.
Speaker 2: We played a lot of card games, backgammon. It's it's
Speaker 2: it's a slower way of life here, and that's been
Speaker 2: really nice. But like no one's in a rush to
Speaker 2: pay the bill. It's probably very European vibes, like yeah,
Speaker 2: everyone's kind of lounging, mosying around. We went, my sister
Speaker 2: and I buy ourselves once have Margarita's by the lake
Speaker 2: and it's just people with their families on a Sunday
Speaker 2: with horses on horses, like riding a horse, chill through
Speaker 2: like the city with a beer, just on the lake
Speaker 2: with their families.
Speaker 3: Awesome.
Speaker 2: And dog culture is cool here, Like dogs are running around,
Speaker 2: but it's like they mostly have callers, but like you
Speaker 2: can bring your dog anywhere, and I guess it's kind
Speaker 2: of the States, but like the dog culture.
Speaker 3: Is cool here. Yeah, like you can cut.
Speaker 2: Like there was like a stray dog that walked into
Speaker 2: a cafe we were in and no one was like,
Speaker 2: no one bad it than I. But my parents are
Speaker 2: eighty and eighty seven, and yeah they walk slow. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: a real test of patients, and you know, lucky to
Speaker 2: have them, of course. But my dad has a walking
Speaker 2: stick and it's like a roughieky stick. It's like giant
Speaker 2: and wood and it's taller than him and he takes
Speaker 2: it everywhere.
Speaker 1: But yeah, he's getting my mom to the ice cream
Speaker 1: place from my house and it was I think it
Speaker 1: was her last long walk.
Speaker 3: I don't think she's gonna try anything like that again.
Speaker 2: But I got to give a shout out to my
Speaker 2: sister because they were here for like ten days before
Speaker 2: I even got here. And so yeah, the patients and
Speaker 2: joy that she brought them, Like, thank God, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: be able to go.
Speaker 3: But you're not in a rush, you're having fun. You're
Speaker 3: own baca.
Speaker 2: I mean them picking a magnet. And then my mom's like,
Speaker 2: I don't feel like and it's also very hot. We're
Speaker 2: itching mosquitoes, but like, yeah, it's a really calm, chill
Speaker 2: way of life. But my niece and I went to
Speaker 2: the grocery store like, I don't know, I'm having a
Speaker 2: really lovely time here.
Speaker 1: I went last weekend out of town to Palm Springs
Speaker 1: for my ten year wedding anniversary.
Speaker 2: I saw on Insta and I was I thought it
Speaker 2: would probably be a group. I'm like, oh, I wonder
Speaker 2: who they're down with. You know, we usually get houses
Speaker 2: with friends. Yeah yeah, so I that's really sweet. So
Speaker 2: you guys just went together with the kids.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we went to this hotel that you know,
Speaker 1: I found out about one of my mom groups, and
Speaker 1: it was so beautiful and it looked like it's basically
Speaker 1: on two sides. Of a street and one side is
Speaker 1: Morocco and the other side's Mediterranean, but you can go
Speaker 1: back and forth to both sides and so quiet, beautiful,
Speaker 1: no children, like all just like watch the kids. My
Speaker 1: in laws flew into town and they came and watched
Speaker 1: the kids.
Speaker 3: It was way great.
Speaker 2: Did your mother in law like her Tiffany's bracelet?
Speaker 3: Yes, she did. She did. Wait she did that one
Speaker 3: for a while. Yeah. I finally asked her. I was like,
Speaker 3: she was like, you guys should not have done that.
Speaker 1: Like she was like, it's a tiffic like she could
Speaker 1: not believe it. But yeah, she did love it. But
Speaker 1: they Yeah, they watched the kids.
Speaker 2: What's the hotel cal You don't want to tell people
Speaker 2: you want to gate keep I kind.
Speaker 3: Of want to gate keep it.
Speaker 1: People can dm me if you're really that if you're
Speaker 1: really that interesting, you can dm me.
Speaker 3: But I'll tell you.
Speaker 1: I just felt really relaxed after it was like really nice.
Speaker 1: There were no like nobody was there partying, nobody was
Speaker 1: there with kids.
Speaker 3: Like everybody was.
Speaker 1: Just there to have a calm, chill weekend and relax
Speaker 1: and like get a buzz, you know, like it's actually
Speaker 1: has palm springs.
Speaker 2: Vibes in terms of like things close early. Here, it's
Speaker 2: dinner at five or six. It is like a retirement community.
Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, but like, and there's American shit.
Speaker 2: My parents were obsessed with the Popeyes here. They had
Speaker 2: Popeyes like two or three times. They could not stop
Speaker 2: having Popeyes.
Speaker 3: Oh but I mean we.
Speaker 2: Also had beef tongue. Like, we were doing a lot
Speaker 2: of stuff. But when I got here, my Dad's like,
Speaker 2: you gotta have the Popeyes.
Speaker 3: I'm so glad you guys all to do that. How fun.
Speaker 2: I know, the boys, the little boys aren't here, but
Speaker 2: I am glad we got to. And I only flipped
Speaker 2: out twice, so I think that's like pretty I mean,
Speaker 2: I guess that was only there for three days with them,
Speaker 2: but I snapped twice. I snapped twice because everyone was saying, like, oh,
Speaker 2: how's it gonna be. I go, well, I will ruin
Speaker 2: the mood. I'm like, it feels like everyone's having a
Speaker 2: great time. I'm like, yeah, I'm sure I will. I
Speaker 2: will cause some chaos and problems for sure.
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, can I tell a really quick story about
Speaker 1: the problem before I we get strung out?
Speaker 2: But I'm so glad so ten year anniversary. Congrats. I'm
Speaker 2: glad you guys like Palm Springs. But I talked about
Speaker 2: Palm Springs a lot here because I love it there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So you know how whenever I pick up
Speaker 1: Oscar from his school, it's like pandemanium. Well, no, it's
Speaker 1: just like when the teacher has a certain look on
Speaker 1: her face. I'm like, go ahead, give me my beating,
Speaker 1: like what did he do? You know?
Speaker 3: Or whatever? So she has this look on her face
Speaker 3: and I go what happened?
Speaker 1: And she goes, well, just now, before you came to
Speaker 1: pick up, he started calling a couple of our friends losers.
Speaker 3: And I what. I was like, I've never heard him
Speaker 3: say loser. I've never heard him use that word. Like
Speaker 3: that's crazy.
Speaker 1: So I was like, losers and she goes, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 3: You know, these kids they pick things up.
Speaker 1: And I go, well, we don't really say loser or whatever,
Speaker 1: as like I'm certain certainly never like, hey, you're a
Speaker 1: loser to my kids or anything.
Speaker 3: But so he says sorry to the girls, and it's.
Speaker 1: Like whatever, and then we leave and I go Oski
Speaker 1: and I'm holding him.
Speaker 3: I go, why why did you call them? Losers. Where
Speaker 3: did you even hear that?
Speaker 1: And he I swear to god, I know people can't
Speaker 1: see me, but with this exact intonation, he goes, I
Speaker 1: don't know, you know how it's like people say Donald
Speaker 1: Trump's a loser, and like, you know, he's a loser.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, okay, maybe we did say that.
Speaker 1: We maybe did say Donald Trump's a loser. Like I
Speaker 1: was like, oh fuck. I like fully tracked it back
Speaker 1: and was like, yeah, I would never call a person
Speaker 1: that I like knew personally a loser, but I definitely
Speaker 1: probably said so we got in trouble for calling kids
Speaker 1: losers at school because I called Donald Trump a loser
Speaker 1: in my home.
Speaker 3: But what why did he call the girls losers? I'm curious.
Speaker 1: He said that they were saying something to him and
Speaker 1: so he said you're a loser or something like that,
Speaker 1: like you know, he was like, it wasn't like they
Speaker 1: were I don't think he even knew how mean it sounded.
Speaker 1: He was just like, oh, I don't know. You know,
Speaker 1: you guys say Donald Trump's a loser. The way he
Speaker 1: said it was like I don't know, like you guys
Speaker 1: kind of like I hear this around like you know,
Speaker 1: it's on the street people are saying loser. It's just like,
Speaker 1: I know, it's my little kids say the darnedest thing
Speaker 1: corner sometimes on the pod.
Speaker 3: But it really made me laugh so hard. I was like,
Speaker 3: you're right, we probably lose also a fun insult. I know.
Speaker 1: I'm in the loser, I know, but like the little
Speaker 1: girls are like so sweet and they really like him
Speaker 1: and they're all friends, and I'm like, don't call anyone
Speaker 1: a loser at school, dude, Come on, like, don't be
Speaker 1: that way. Anyway, we're gonna get started. Go to Thats
Speaker 1: messed up live dot com for we got merch up
Speaker 1: there in the shop, We've got Lisa. You could scroll
Speaker 1: down to where its as Liza's website and that takes
Speaker 1: you to all of the legit ticket links for her
Speaker 1: tour dates and stuff.
Speaker 3: And you know, you can also.
Speaker 2: If you're listening to this right now, you could see
Speaker 2: me in Atlanta to night and tomorrow and then oh
Speaker 2: Charlotte this weekend, Thursday, Friday and Saturday.
Speaker 3: So get out there.
Speaker 2: Hit me up, honey, bunches out there, guys. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: yesterday I was sitting looking at the dog and I
Speaker 2: went Oh god, Bailey's just a true blue cutie, and
Speaker 2: people go, what does that mean? I go, I have
Speaker 2: no idea. I don't know what just came out of
Speaker 2: my mouth. I'm like, I don't even know if those
Speaker 2: words go together. Humiliating. Well, we've got a too blue
Speaker 2: cuty of an episode for you, you know, And I
Speaker 2: know I'm doing this and it's annoying, but things are.
Speaker 2: You're in LA, and do you have anything to say
Speaker 2: about what's going on and anything you'd like to say?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to say that you cannot trust what
Speaker 1: the media is fucking spinning for you. LA is peacefully protesting.
Speaker 1: I mean it's terrifying, Like I'm getting emails from my kids'
Speaker 1: school principal there's ice activity outside the school, Like you
Speaker 1: got these fucking ice guys are ghouls. They're absolute ghoulish monsters,
Speaker 1: going to graduations, going to kids' schools to try to
Speaker 1: pick up kids to get to their parents or whatever
Speaker 1: the fuck they're doing. It's fucked up. But Angelino's are
Speaker 1: protesting peacefully. There have been a handful of people, as
Speaker 1: there are with every protest, who have lit a car
Speaker 1: on fire or done something in the incendiary like that
Speaker 1: that is not an excuse to override the governor and
Speaker 1: send in the National guard. There is not. This city's
Speaker 1: not going crazy. There is peaceful protests happening everywhere, and
Speaker 1: we're fucked though. This shit is fucked with him with
Speaker 1: the ice.
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's terrifying.
Speaker 1: I have friends who are documented who are like they
Speaker 1: could pick me up, Like they could pick me up
Speaker 1: just on how I look, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's so fucked because let's say, let's
Speaker 2: say all these people are breaking the law and they
Speaker 2: need to be arrested. It has to be at a
Speaker 2: child's graduation, Yeah, it has to in court. You're dragging
Speaker 2: people out of work and home to bet Like, fuck you.
Speaker 1: I literally just got a text they're at a hospital
Speaker 1: by the way. Let your like, I'm on this text
Speaker 1: with a bunch of moms that are like, let anybody
Speaker 1: you know that might be at ex hospital that they're
Speaker 1: around there like hospital.
Speaker 2: Like they're causing the violence. Like that's what I don't
Speaker 2: understand about outside people. And I know the media is
Speaker 2: like very like persuasive in whatever way, and we are
Speaker 2: taught to trust it or not, Like I don't even know,
Speaker 2: but it's like the governor, the mayor, everyone said, we
Speaker 2: don't need all these these people don't need militia. It's
Speaker 2: like they're the ones causing violence. They're shooting reporters with
Speaker 2: rubber bullets on fucking camera. They're such bullies, and I
Speaker 2: can't I don't understand why people are more mad like
Speaker 2: fuck you you boot liquors, like fuck yeah, I don't
Speaker 2: get how no one's like, oh, they might be causing
Speaker 2: the riots. And then it's just family is living. It's
Speaker 2: like I keep thinking about my Arta, where you live,
Speaker 2: and yeah, my old neighborhood and all those people and
Speaker 2: the feel and how that affects you and your family,
Speaker 2: and you can't like it's awful. And then being here
Speaker 2: in Mexico. My sister says she was out one night
Speaker 2: and someone was wearing a fucking make America Great Again
Speaker 2: hat here in Mexico and this king grip No. My
Speaker 2: sister said, a woman attacked him and it was amazing.
Speaker 2: Flips his hat off and goes, what the fuck are
Speaker 2: you doing here? And oh if I could do that
Speaker 2: one day to someone, Oh my god, I want to
Speaker 2: start a fight so bad.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it's just like I never forget that the
Speaker 1: whole reason that I mean, yes, they want Yes they're racist, Yes,
Speaker 1: the cruelty is the point. They're trying to get us
Speaker 1: to not pay attention to the elon breakup, to the
Speaker 1: big beautiful bill that's gonna fuck everybody from education to
Speaker 1: snap to everything. Like they're just trying to get us
Speaker 1: to be so consumed in all the chaos that we
Speaker 1: can't look see what they're doing when they're trying to
Speaker 1: fucking take everything away from you, Like, I hope you're
Speaker 1: having a good time if you're one of these people
Speaker 1: that voted for him, I hope you're having a good
Speaker 1: time watching what you to be drug dealers carted off
Speaker 1: to with illegally with no due process, while they are
Speaker 1: defunding your school and not letting anybody in your community
Speaker 1: get food that needs it.
Speaker 3: Like, I hope that's you're having a great day with that.
Speaker 3: I don't want to smilled neighbor, Like it's just devastating.
Speaker 1: I've been texting people. I've been texting people being like,
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure you're okay. It's it's
Speaker 1: it's terrible, but we will Well let us know if
Speaker 1: there's any way that you know, keep us posted. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll keep you guys posted, And but I would just say, like,
Speaker 1: you know, we've been talking about AI and shit, like
Speaker 1: just be careful. Make sure what you're looking at is
Speaker 1: not just like positioned media created images thing like Joe's
Speaker 1: Woods is selling fucking James Woods is posting images from
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, Like, make sure that what you're seeing is
Speaker 1: what you're seeing. Talk to people, try to see people
Speaker 1: who actually live in these cities or these places, like
Speaker 1: there is not anything.
Speaker 3: Bad happening in la any that they're trying to make
Speaker 3: it seem. And let's say it is or whatever. Let's
Speaker 3: say everyone's looting everything.
Speaker 2: Ask what those people, why you care more about a
Speaker 2: car on fire than a mother being dragged away from
Speaker 2: her daughter.
Speaker 1: While her While someone in my mom group just posted
Speaker 1: that they're helping a family where a woman was just
Speaker 1: deported by ice and leaving her thirteen month old child behind.
Speaker 2: That's like to ask yourself why you care more about
Speaker 2: a car than a child ripped away from their fucking
Speaker 2: mother for no reason, for no reason, like have some
Speaker 2: fucking humanity, Like oh my god, and I told my parents,
Speaker 2: I go if you were being snatched away.
Speaker 3: I would burn a car too, and then they laughed.
Speaker 2: But anyways, no, they understand it all and we're we're
Speaker 2: just immigrants and you know it's fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we're starting. We got a start.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, this episode is terrible.
Speaker 1: We have this is a wild episode.
Speaker 3: Good guests, hang in there with us, guys. Here we go. Okay,
Speaker 3: let's jump in.
Speaker 1: This is another double episode we're doing the season premiere
Speaker 1: two episodes of season twenty Man Up and Man Down,
Speaker 1: episodes one and two.
Speaker 3: These aired in September of twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2: And you know, we say this a lot, but these
Speaker 2: are bad. These are bad. They haunt me.
Speaker 3: These this episodes taught me. Yes, yes, they sent me.
Speaker 2: They're hard to watch. I can't believe we're doing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, start. Yeah, this is not that they're not
Speaker 1: there's all. I mean, there's so many episodes that are
Speaker 1: hard to watch. But yeah, this is like the beginning.
Speaker 3: Of really the new air.
Speaker 1: Not a lot of levity, yes, like really like no
Speaker 1: levity and these like the twenties and a lot of
Speaker 1: the twenties seasons and late maybe late teens. But this
Speaker 1: episode begins with live running after a suspect and the
Speaker 1: bitch is winded. I'm not gonna lie. Okay, time stops
Speaker 1: for no one. Carezi takes over the chase. Finn cuts
Speaker 1: the guy off in a car, pops out with a
Speaker 1: gun drawn and goes, don't make me shoot you and
Speaker 1: the purpses he's completely surrounded and takes the opportunity to
Speaker 1: violently confess, Fine, I raped that bitch, which is I
Speaker 1: just said that. Nothing is sort of not that this
Speaker 1: is funny, but it is wild that a guy would
Speaker 1: just go, fine.
Speaker 3: You got me, I did it. It's like it reminds
Speaker 3: me of like.
Speaker 1: A Boris and Natasha cartoing or something like what do
Speaker 1: you tell when you tie him to the railroad tracks?
Speaker 3: Like it's just crazy.
Speaker 1: And then like Live catches up and she's still breathing
Speaker 1: really heavy, and you could tell she's like kind of
Speaker 1: disappointed in herself, like and when she's running, it's like
Speaker 1: he's right there and she just can't grab him. And
Speaker 1: then we cut to Stone looking at pictures of him
Speaker 1: and his sister, who was kidnapped and you know, murdered
Speaker 1: by a gang member sash sex trafficker right before Stone's eyes,
Speaker 1: and he and she died in Stone's arms.
Speaker 3: Last season. So Stone's looking at pictures of his dead sister.
Speaker 1: He's got a babe in his bed who's naked, asking
Speaker 1: for prosecco, and then boom, there's another girl.
Speaker 3: There's two.
Speaker 1: Stone is self medicating with sex and you know.
Speaker 3: He's sky I mean to have a three? We did?
Speaker 4: You did?
Speaker 3: Just say like this episode has no levity.
Speaker 2: It's the no levity era, and we already have like
Speaker 2: a guy, I know, a fun quick confession and we
Speaker 2: have a threesome which we've never rat on this programming.
Speaker 1: But then after this, it's over. After this, he's just
Speaker 1: darkness from here.
Speaker 3: Sexual.
Speaker 2: I love Stone in his slut era, like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: it's exciting.
Speaker 3: Well, like we.
Speaker 1: Never saw Diane Neil in bed with anyone, kiss anyone.
Speaker 1: We never saw cabin, we never saw Barba, Like we're
Speaker 1: just letting this guy fuck like he's like there's other
Speaker 1: episodes too that we cover where he's just like going
Speaker 1: home with.
Speaker 3: Ladies, making out, picking up girls at bars.
Speaker 1: Like I think that's They were like, if we're gonna
Speaker 1: have a guy that's so handsome and looks good with
Speaker 1: his shirt off, let's get him with his shirt off.
Speaker 2: Yeahs, Yeah, well, I guess tomorrow Amar and Rollins were
Speaker 2: getting hot and hey, I mean.
Speaker 3: Rollins is just yeah. But even then we saw them kiss.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like they just kind of had him come out
Speaker 1: of the shower one time, like to just give us
Speaker 1: a little tease. But I feel like we never even
Speaker 1: really saw them make out. But this is, you know, exciting.
Speaker 1: I'm it's hot and heavy.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So now we cut to Amanda.
Speaker 1: She's chatting with baby daddy number two, the one we
Speaker 1: always forget about. The actor is the groom from Father
Speaker 1: of the Bride. His name is George Newbern, the actor,
Speaker 1: and he's begging what.
Speaker 3: I don't think I knew that that he's the dad,
Speaker 3: that he's the He's yeah, he's the he's the groom
Speaker 3: from I'm right.
Speaker 2: Right, Oh my god. I am floored. I mean, now
Speaker 2: I see it. I obviously see it looking at this man,
Speaker 2: but I am like shocked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Benson has I mean, if you're gonna have three
Speaker 1: baby daddies, Donald log the groom from Father of the Bride,
Speaker 1: and CARIESI are pretty good three.
Speaker 3: Baby daddies, you know. Yeah, yeah yeah, And he's like
Speaker 3: this guy was it.
Speaker 1: He's been in all the Father of the Bride's Father
Speaker 1: of the Bride part three ish like, but he's in
Speaker 1: four episodes as doctor Al Pollock. Wait, this is his
Speaker 1: first episode, so I guess we're we don't really like
Speaker 1: see them meet or anything. This is where we meet
Speaker 1: him for the first time. This scene that I'm describing,
Speaker 1: that's crazy. And then he's you know, famously he's around
Speaker 1: for like when Rollins gives birth and she's like, he
Speaker 1: proposes at the hospital and she's like, get the fuck
Speaker 1: out of here, and then he's never in her life
Speaker 1: again pretty much.
Speaker 3: But this guy also was a standing for her money.
Speaker 3: He is wealthy. I hope he's like, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if he could just pay for a nanny. That
Speaker 1: then covers also you know, uh, Billy and Jesse, and
Speaker 1: then yeah, covers college.
Speaker 3: I'd be great.
Speaker 1: But he's in sixty nine episodes of Scandal, so he's
Speaker 1: a regular on Scandal if you know him from that,
Speaker 1: But if you're a Father of the Bride person, he's
Speaker 1: in that universe. So back to this little you know,
Speaker 1: they're at like a nice restaurant. Rollins is in like
Speaker 1: cute outfit like there, and he's begging her for a
Speaker 1: second chance. So I guess since I just looked him
Speaker 1: up and this is the first episode, I guess you're
Speaker 1: just supposed to be like, oh, she was dating this
Speaker 1: guy and we don't know where she met him, but
Speaker 1: she was like dating this doctor. Okay, and she and
Speaker 1: he swears that quote the business with the escorts is
Speaker 1: behind him, Like he goes, I've changed, Like what the fuck? Rollins, Like,
Speaker 1: I know, you make bad decisions, but like this man's
Speaker 1: been with escorts, like and cheating on you with escorts,
Speaker 1: not like you know, it's just like he's probably hasn't changed.
Speaker 3: So she leaves.
Speaker 1: She gets like a look on her face, and she leaves,
Speaker 1: go to the bathroom, and then you see the toilet flushing,
Speaker 1: and like, you know, if you're anybody with like a brain,
Speaker 1: you're like, she's pregnant, you know, like we don't know,
Speaker 1: we don't know for sure yet, but like anybody that's
Speaker 1: like has to rush to the bathroom and then you
Speaker 1: just see flushing.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So when she comes.
Speaker 1: Back, she sees this guy and he's like flirting with
Speaker 1: the waitress and it seems like they might even be
Speaker 1: exchanging numbers.
Speaker 3: Like he's he's not good, he's not good.
Speaker 1: He literally just finished exhaling his apology to her, and
Speaker 1: like then he's flirting with this woman. Like so, now
Speaker 1: cut to a teen with a rifle. This beginning of
Speaker 1: this cold open is really jumping to a lot of places.
Speaker 1: It's live winded Stone in a threesome, Rollin's barfing with
Speaker 1: her cheating boyfriend, and now a teen with a rifle.
Speaker 3: We're not at the credits. We're not at the credits. Okay,
Speaker 3: not even the credits. We're not even at the crime yet. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we're not at anything.
Speaker 1: So the teen with the rifle is like he looks nervous,
Speaker 1: he's kind.
Speaker 3: Of like he's hesitating.
Speaker 1: Another teen is like, just shoot him, shoot it, and
Speaker 1: it's like the little target site is on a rabbit,
Speaker 1: a little baby rabbit. The brother like just shoots at
Speaker 1: the rabbit and then they go find the rabbit and
Speaker 1: it's dying. It's not dead, and the older one is like,
Speaker 1: just like shoot it, like do it, pussy, and like
Speaker 1: he won't. The kid won't do it. The dad is
Speaker 1: there now and he's like I can't do what. I'm sorry, dad,
Speaker 1: And the dad tells him you should be apologizing to
Speaker 1: the rabbit. The rabbit suffering and then the dad snaps
Speaker 1: the neck of the rabbit. So and the dad is
Speaker 1: Dylan Walls, who obviously is a huge part of my
Speaker 1: life from Niptuck, the series that I gave so much
Speaker 1: of my life too. And he's also in another SVU
Speaker 1: called Annihilated from season eight and refuses to do the point.
Speaker 1: We are dying to get him on the podcast. We're
Speaker 1: having a hard time getting through. So if anyone knows
Speaker 1: him personally, please let us know. The younger son is
Speaker 1: crying and apologizing to his dad, and his dad goes,
Speaker 1: it's okay, he goes, you'll learn, but it's not in
Speaker 1: a gentle parenting type of way. Okay, it's ominous. The
Speaker 1: music is playing. He's not thinking he's going to like
Speaker 1: walk him through hunting until he gets it.
Speaker 3: You know. It's like he's going to be punished.
Speaker 1: So now we cut to a school principle filling in
Speaker 1: rollins in careesy. Sam Conway fifteen had blood on the
Speaker 1: back of his shorts, the kids claiming he fell. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's like my mother in law used to work in
Speaker 1: the er and people would have light bulbs up their asses.
Speaker 1: It would be like I fell. It's like that's not
Speaker 1: really how the butt hole works.
Speaker 2: That's like a common thing that's always brought up, like
Speaker 2: all the light bulbs in the butt, and it's like,
Speaker 2: but how do they not crack?
Speaker 3: Like what are we talking about? I know? And I
Speaker 3: feel like the glass murders people, does it not? It's this,
Speaker 3: It's like so crazy.
Speaker 2: There's so many other objects you could put up your
Speaker 2: butt that are harder, tougher glass.
Speaker 3: That's what I don't get. You want something that's like that.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's like the threat of having your butt filled
Speaker 1: with shards of glass, but I mean Jesus, as someone
Speaker 1: who's had butt botox and talked about it openly, you
Speaker 1: don't want that anyway. Sam's in the nurse's office. Sam's
Speaker 1: in the nurse's office with his brother Brian, who's very
Speaker 1: agro and Sam's just like, I just want to go home.
Speaker 3: I just I fell I want to go home.
Speaker 1: And then the mom shows up and she's worried, and
Speaker 1: Chrisy's like, well, we got to take your son to
Speaker 1: the hospital. So Sam is played by Bryce Romero, who
Speaker 1: was also in the movie Lisa Frankenstein, which I wanted
Speaker 1: to see but I didn't. So from that yeah, he's
Speaker 1: in that and.
Speaker 3: Uh was it good?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I liked it.
Speaker 2: I feel like it was on a plane, like in
Speaker 2: the more like I think I was like in a haze.
Speaker 2: And I liked it, but I should probably watch it again. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm confusing that and the warm and the Nicholas Holt one.
Speaker 2: I loved Lisa Frankenstein. Okay, great, watch this one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I liked it.
Speaker 1: Now we're at the hospital and bad news anal penetration
Speaker 1: and most likely not by an object, and he's not talking.
Speaker 1: The kid is not talking, and the family wants to
Speaker 1: all believe that he fell. Cariese's telling Sam listen, buddy,
Speaker 1: the docs say this wasn't an accident, and Sam's like, I'm.
Speaker 3: Fine, okay, I needed this to happen.
Speaker 1: It's my business, and Christy goes, okay, but if you
Speaker 1: decide you're not fine, give me a call. Give me
Speaker 1: a call. And then he gives him his card. So
Speaker 1: now at the precinct, it's time for the info dump.
Speaker 1: Sam Well liked good grades, plays travel baseball, volunteers in
Speaker 1: an animal shelter, Hence why he probably doesn't want to
Speaker 1: shoot a fucking re abit.
Speaker 3: No bullying, no red flags, with.
Speaker 1: Any of his teachers, like or anything like that. So
Speaker 1: they're kind of like at a loss. The dad owns
Speaker 1: a beverage distribution company. The mom's a stay at home mom.
Speaker 1: They've been married twenty years. I mean, the stay at
Speaker 1: home mom of the fifteen and the seventeen year old.
Speaker 1: I just don't get what you're doing all day long,
Speaker 1: Like if they're at school and then they have practice
Speaker 1: like from eight to six, I don't know what you're
Speaker 1: doing but chilling, but hopefully chilling.
Speaker 2: Well, she clearly doesn't have a great home life, so
Speaker 2: she's on edge cleaning the home so she's.
Speaker 1: Not abused later. It's not that's a good situation. Well, no,
Speaker 1: of course we're not there yet. In my notes, I'm
Speaker 1: just like, God, that sounds boring. And that's also just
Speaker 1: my opinion. Maybe that sounds wonderful to some people.
Speaker 2: You could go to a breakfast, you can go to
Speaker 2: a workout class, you could.
Speaker 3: Use self maintenance. Yeah, and then you can like even
Speaker 3: go for a crafting. Yeah.
Speaker 1: There's tons, there's tons of Maybe maybe she's heavy into
Speaker 1: the pta at the school too, Maybe she does stuff
Speaker 1: with their school.
Speaker 3: I'm Joie. I'm just saying for me, it couldn't be me.
Speaker 1: But they've been married twenty years and there's no domestic violence.
Speaker 1: There's no domestic violence that we've you know, seen this
Speaker 1: in the no it's okay the law in the eyes
Speaker 1: of their record. They've been married twenty years and there's
Speaker 1: no DV. The brothers are close and they went hunting
Speaker 1: with the dad over the weekend. They're all stumped, but
Speaker 1: Coriesy goes, I don't know. Sam said something weird. He
Speaker 1: said this needed to happen. Yeah, that's a pretty weird
Speaker 1: thing to fucking say. So they're like, maybe he ran
Speaker 1: into a predator up state. Now we see live facetiming
Speaker 1: with Noah and he's giving her a guilt trip for
Speaker 1: missing his game where he almost hit a home run.
Speaker 3: Shut up, Noah, call me when you hit a home run.
Speaker 3: She'll be there.
Speaker 1: Sam has a girlfriend who is also on her way
Speaker 1: in Rollin's is like eating banana bread and lives like
Speaker 1: something up and Rollins dodges it and is like this
Speaker 1: banana bread. Oh, there's the girlfriend, and so that like
Speaker 1: now they're going to talk to this girl who's allegedly
Speaker 1: Sam's girlfriend, and she's.
Speaker 2: Like like, now that's what's confusing where it's like banana bread,
Speaker 2: something must be wrong.
Speaker 1: Like I know, I feel like it's like live has
Speaker 1: intuition about this kind of stuff. And also sometimes people's
Speaker 1: faces changed when they're p but she seems like she's
Speaker 1: early along, like I don't know, but she feels like
Speaker 1: she gets something.
Speaker 3: She's picking up on something.
Speaker 1: And so they're talking to the girlfriend and the girlfriend's like,
Speaker 1: I'm not his girlfriend, girlfriend, Like we tried one time,
Speaker 1: but he just couldn't do it. And she says she's
Speaker 1: pissed at him because they were supposed to study last
Speaker 1: night and he called her wasted. He was either laughing
Speaker 1: or crying and he said I became a man tonight.
Speaker 3: So what yikes.
Speaker 1: So then they go to the bar where I guess
Speaker 1: they trace her phone and find out where the phone
Speaker 1: call came from. The bartender goes, oh, yeah, this kid
Speaker 1: was at the bar with his dad. They show a
Speaker 1: picture of the dad and he go of Dylan Walsh
Speaker 1: and they're like, the guy goes, that's not the guy.
Speaker 1: This guy had white hair and glasses. He paid cash,
Speaker 1: but I think they left in an uber. They pick
Speaker 1: up the uber. No one else ubered from this bar,
Speaker 1: they get this guy immediately. His name is Gus Haverford.
Speaker 1: He's fifty five and he's an SVP at Morgan Stanley.
Speaker 1: So as they go talk to this guy, Rollin's uncovers
Speaker 1: that Carisi has never had a massage, and she's shocked.
Speaker 1: She cannot believe it, and I'm like, you can't believe that,
Speaker 1: Sonny Kreese's never been like, yeah, can I get a
Speaker 1: fifty five minute shiatsu?
Speaker 3: I don't think anybody thinks that's happening, Like so like
Speaker 3: that law school to study for. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: They see Haverford and he immediately goes, I swear I
Speaker 1: didn't know the kid was fifteen, so very very forthcoming
Speaker 1: for a fifty five year old financial guy who could
Speaker 1: probably lose his whole fucking life over this. And so
Speaker 1: now in interrogation, this guy's explaining, listen, the kid was
Speaker 1: fucked up. I had an uber take him home and
Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, your hands are all over him.
Speaker 3: He's like, I was trying to comfort him. He was crying,
Speaker 3: and he goes.
Speaker 1: Sam didn't want to go home, but he seemed more
Speaker 1: worried about his brother, and he kept rambling about a
Speaker 1: rabbit and then he's kind of like, all right, if
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say anything.
Speaker 3: Else, I want a lawyer.
Speaker 1: And so Live and Finn are watching through the glass
Speaker 1: and lives like something did happen on that hunting trimp
Speaker 1: and Finn goes, white people in rifles, don't ask me,
Speaker 1: and it's like, again, put it in the coffee table book,
Speaker 1: like I don't understand why there's not a book being
Speaker 1: created of just beautiful images.
Speaker 3: And Finn sayings.
Speaker 1: Finn goes to talk to Brian, who's the brother, and
Speaker 1: he's on his way to baseball practice and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was worried sick about my brother when he went
Speaker 1: out that night, but then he came home. He puked everywhere.
Speaker 1: I cleaned him up and I put him to bed.
Speaker 1: And Finn's like, come on, dude, like the injuries. You
Speaker 1: know your brother was raped, and he's like, my brother's
Speaker 1: not gay. It's like, I love how that's like the
Speaker 1: main that's the main thing that could be the worst
Speaker 1: case scenario here. And he picks up that Finn is
Speaker 1: hinting that he might have something to do with it all,
Speaker 1: and he's like, you guys are sick, and he walks
Speaker 1: to the bus and he's like, how about that rabbit, though,
Speaker 1: Finn says and the good the Kid's like taking aback
Speaker 1: that Finn knows about the rabbit. So now back at
Speaker 1: the precinct, they're filling in Live and they're like, we
Speaker 1: feel like the brother knows what's up. Cariesy's like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna make some calls. Then Live takes this opportunity to
Speaker 1: talk to Rollins again and he's like, girl, whatever's up
Speaker 1: with you? Tell me or don't tell me, and then
Speaker 1: Rollins blurts out, I'm pregnant, and Live's face lights up. Congratulations.
Speaker 1: But going off of Rollins, it's like, maybe not good news,
Speaker 1: Like and what we've seen this guy that she's pregnant
Speaker 1: with is a fucking like asshole.
Speaker 2: So careesy momonizer, But you know, j Benson's always got
Speaker 2: baby's on the brain.
Speaker 1: She's really I mean, I talk about it later. It's
Speaker 1: a little disappointing, uh, to be honest, Like I would
Speaker 1: just assume that she'd be a little bit more like
Speaker 1: okay and like wait to see you Amanda's thoughts on
Speaker 1: it before just going like planning you a baby shower. Girl,
Speaker 1: Like you know, she's just immediately so excited about it.
Speaker 1: So they get interrupted in their little chat about the
Speaker 1: baby because Careese busts in, and it's because Sam and
Speaker 1: Brian just got into a fight with each other at school,
Speaker 1: so now they're at school, they're holding Brian back. He
Speaker 1: gets free and goes after his brother again, telling him
Speaker 1: he's being a baby, and then they like the cops haven't,
Speaker 1: but then he wiggles out of the cops grip and
Speaker 1: takes off running and now here we go again, making
Speaker 1: Olivia run and she's chasing him and she just can't
Speaker 1: grab him. She's like right there grabbing her hands out
Speaker 1: like gimmy, gimme, gimmey, and she's not getting him. He
Speaker 1: knocks over a bicyclist. The bicyclist does it seem like
Speaker 1: she's going that fast and she gets knocked over. Cariese
Speaker 1: steps in and grabs Brian, and the biker's on the
Speaker 1: ground crying and screaming, and it doesn't look like that
Speaker 1: high speed of a collision, but something happened and she's
Speaker 1: in bad shape. So at the precinct, now Stone and
Speaker 1: Liver are watching Brian through the fishbowl and Live thinks
Speaker 1: maybe the brother is a victim too, and will give
Speaker 1: us something. Rollins is trying to connect with Brian, who's like,
Speaker 1: I love Sam, I wouldn't actually hurt him, and they're like,
Speaker 1: you were just trying to punch his lights out at school,
Speaker 1: like what the fuck? And then asked me about the
Speaker 1: hunting trip and he's like, yeah, we go hunting. My
Speaker 1: dad shot a bore one s cool story, bro, Like
Speaker 1: I don't know why he's bringing it up. And he's
Speaker 1: like so pissed that his brother wouldn't shoo the rabbit,
Speaker 1: like as if like a rabbit is like some rare
Speaker 1: animal that you don't get like a chance every day.
Speaker 3: To get a shot at.
Speaker 1: Like there, everything's nice, Yeah the fuck. Yeah, they're all
Speaker 1: like just acting really really psycho about the rabbit.
Speaker 3: Dad reminds me of the dad from American Beauty. Oh,
Speaker 3: the neighbor dad. Yeah, yeah, yes, he's good.
Speaker 1: What's that actor's name, Chris Cooper, Chris Cooper, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: totally giving those vibes. And then we're talking to the
Speaker 1: mom now and Sam and she's like, what, brother's fight,
Speaker 1: Like the mom's a little battie and she's like it
Speaker 1: looked like he was trying to kill you or shut
Speaker 1: you up or about something, and then the dad joins
Speaker 1: the combo and he drops this big bomb where he goes,
Speaker 1: you know, Sam came out to me this morning.
Speaker 3: He's gay.
Speaker 1: The mom is like, what, Like, that's not the thing
Speaker 1: that you, as a husband just really like say to
Speaker 1: the cops, and you've not told your wife yet, and
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, he met a young man on the
Speaker 1: trip and one thing led to another. We talked it out.
Speaker 1: Everyone's good. Sam does not look good. Sam looks really
Speaker 1: upset and he's obviously going along with what his dad says.
Speaker 1: He's lying pretty hardchries. He's like, Okay, what's the story
Speaker 1: with the guy? What did he look like, how old
Speaker 1: was he? What was his build? And the dad's like,
Speaker 1: you don't really need a question my son about this
Speaker 1: unless being gay as illegal. And they're like, what are
Speaker 1: you not getting about your son being fifteen and he
Speaker 1: can't consent. So unless he met like a sixteen year
Speaker 1: old out in the woods and had sex with them,
Speaker 1: then if it was a man, this is still a crime.
Speaker 1: And the dad's like, we're leaving, so I don't. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's crazy. This whole thing. Stone is not buying the
Speaker 1: Sam had a steamy hook up in the Woods story.
Speaker 1: He thinks the father's protecting Sam from the older brother Brian.
Speaker 3: They're gonna call CPS. They need to get Sam out
Speaker 3: of that house.
Speaker 1: House Live thinks the mom knows what's going on, so
Speaker 1: let's talk to her.
Speaker 3: Her name is Molly.
Speaker 1: So now they're at the family's massive apartment by the way,
Speaker 1: and Molly's like, can't talk. The dad is out for
Speaker 1: pizza with my boys, and she goes like, we have
Speaker 1: something to celebrate. So she's obviously like, yeah, why the
Speaker 1: fuck we having a pizza party? Like, my son obviously
Speaker 1: had some kind of weird Woods encounter. We don't know
Speaker 1: what's going on, and Lives like, how are you gonna
Speaker 1: get through life with Sam with him knowing you didn't
Speaker 1: protect him or keep him safe? And she's like what
Speaker 1: can I do? And she's like then she finally gets
Speaker 1: to it, like, Lives like, tell me what happened, Like
Speaker 1: tell me the truth, and she's like, well, I heard
Speaker 1: sounds coming from Sam's room. I was listening at the door.
Speaker 1: I heard Sam whimpering. She said it sounded like an animal.
Speaker 1: It broke her heart, and she says she went in
Speaker 1: and Sam was on the bed, and she goes and
Speaker 1: he was just standing there zipping his pants up. And
Speaker 1: they go Brian, and she goes my husband and live
Speaker 1: is shocked. No one was thinking at all it could
Speaker 1: be this dad at all. Like everyone's like, no, it's
Speaker 1: more likely that the older brother raped his brother than
Speaker 1: the dad, even though I don't know. We're in SVUW
Speaker 1: have we've seen this time and time again. Molly said
Speaker 1: that later, when she talked to her husband about it,
Speaker 1: he said, don't say a word. Sam's fine. The next day,
Speaker 1: she said she found bloody underwear in the closet. John
Speaker 1: told her to wash them. She's upset and she's crying
Speaker 1: and she like can't believe she turned a blind eye
Speaker 1: to all of this.
Speaker 3: And then John and the boys come home with the
Speaker 3: pizza and the cops arrest him.
Speaker 1: So in interrogation, John is freaking out, saying, my wife
Speaker 1: agrees with whatever the last person said to her, says
Speaker 1: like he's basically has zero respect for his wife. He's
Speaker 1: freaking out being like, you guys are sick. How could
Speaker 1: you put these ideas in? And he's like they're like, dude,
Speaker 1: we didn't even think it was you, like we fully
Speaker 1: were going after your son, like your wife is the
Speaker 1: one that pointed us to you. And his lawyer is
Speaker 1: Kurt Fuller, and you've seen him in like ninety thousand things.
Speaker 1: He was also in the episode Info Wars and season
Speaker 1: nineteen as the same character. He's a defense attorney named
Speaker 1: Jed Carrey Uh. And suddenly he stops freaking out the
Speaker 1: dad and asks Stone, do you hunt mister Stone? And
Speaker 1: then he tells a stupid fucking monologue about killing an
Speaker 1: innocent deer. It's like, truly the toxic masculinity version of
Speaker 1: Marissa Tomey's monologue about the baby deer and my cousin Vinnie.
Speaker 3: It's just like he digs the opposite side of it.
Speaker 3: I've never seen my cousin Vinnie.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Put that into the right with ghosts.
Speaker 1: You would love it. You would love it, Marissa Tomay,
Speaker 1: Joe Peschi. They're so good in it.
Speaker 3: It's so good. It's so good. I love that. I
Speaker 3: know it's really wild. Yeah, I love I actually feel
Speaker 3: shame about that.
Speaker 1: It's actually also so good because it's like a it's
Speaker 1: like a comedy, but there is like this great crime
Speaker 1: and twists and they use police work, and so I think, like,
Speaker 1: procedurally you will as a procedural fan, you will like
Speaker 1: it as well. So this fucking guy is just trying
Speaker 1: a big time stone about what a cool manly man
Speaker 1: he is.
Speaker 3: Like I don't even flinch.
Speaker 1: I just fucking kill innocent animals with my rifle, like
Speaker 1: I'm so awesome. And in the next scene, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I like literally have almost I just have like no
Speaker 1: respect for hunting. Like if you need to hunt for
Speaker 1: your food, then okay, But like I had to, I've
Speaker 1: had to hide friends on my Facebook and stuff who
Speaker 1: will just post photos of them like holding up wild
Speaker 1: game as like a prize when it's like you just
Speaker 1: and I know people are eating meat and that's fine.
Speaker 1: I'm not even that, but it's like to just go
Speaker 1: out and not even use the meat for anything or
Speaker 1: the spurs for anything. You're just doing it to kill it,
Speaker 1: Like I just it's wild to me, Like I'm really
Speaker 1: kind of grossed out by it. But in the next scene,
Speaker 1: Caresee catches up to Sam at batting practice and Sam's
Speaker 1: like leave me alone, and Caresee's like, let's talk sports,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna get this kid to open up and
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, my dad used to bust my balls
Speaker 1: about passing up shots in basketball.
Speaker 3: And then he's like that's why he goes.
Speaker 1: I think that's why they invented sports, so dads would
Speaker 1: have something to talk about.
Speaker 3: With their sons. And Sam wants Cariesy to like let
Speaker 3: it go.
Speaker 1: He's like, let it go, and Carisey's like, dude, you
Speaker 1: know I can't do that. And he's like, your mom
Speaker 1: saw your dad in that room.
Speaker 3: She told us.
Speaker 1: And just when we think Sam is about to break
Speaker 1: down and admit everything, he's like, just because your life
Speaker 1: sucks doesn't mean my life has to suck. Your dad
Speaker 1: blows My dad rules. He would never hurt me, and
Speaker 1: I'll never say he did. Like this guy, this kid
Speaker 1: is really holding on so fucking tight. Like in other
Speaker 1: episodes that we've seen, we see kids live for their parents,
Speaker 1: cover up for their abuse or blah blah blah, but
Speaker 1: at some point they're eventually like okay, And this kid's
Speaker 1: just holding on so tight to the like his dad
Speaker 1: being the best guy on illusion.
Speaker 3: So now Live and Stone are in a walk and talk.
Speaker 1: Stone's like, I don't care what kind of world this
Speaker 1: is as if this is like the first ancestual atrocity
Speaker 1: that's run across his desk, like I don't understand, but
Speaker 1: and then Liv goes, I guess there has to be
Speaker 1: a hell so we can recognize heaven. And then the
Speaker 1: two of them like talk a lot, a bunch of
Speaker 1: scripture bullshit, and it's like it's a weird moment, like
Speaker 1: Live doesn't usually.
Speaker 3: Talk like that. That feels like a little bit of
Speaker 3: Marishka sneaking in there.
Speaker 1: And Stone doesn't get why kids have to suffer, and uh,
Speaker 1: Olivia is like, listen, if you ever need to talk
Speaker 1: about Pam, I'm here for you, and Stone's like, she's dead,
Speaker 1: what is there to talk about? And then he changes
Speaker 1: the subject like he doesn't want to, he doesn't really
Speaker 1: want the shoulder to cry on. He changes the subject
Speaker 1: to John Conway. They're going to try to bring him
Speaker 1: to trial without a complaining witness, and Live can't believe that,
Speaker 1: and he goes, well, the war you can't win is
Speaker 1: the only one worth fighting, so.
Speaker 3: All right, Yeah, so.
Speaker 1: Now we're in court and a nerd, which is which
Speaker 1: is funny because that's literally the opposite of every da,
Speaker 1: Like every DA to the ada's is like, if you're
Speaker 1: not gonna win, get the fuck out of the court room,
Speaker 1: like I don't know why you're even here, Like I
Speaker 1: don't even care who this is.
Speaker 3: Just stop if you can't win, and get go home.
Speaker 3: So now we're in court and a nerd.
Speaker 1: Is on the stand talking about the DNA samples they
Speaker 1: found in Sam's underwear. So basically, they found blood and
Speaker 1: semen on this kid's underwear. But the lawyer makes the
Speaker 1: case that because the underwear was washed with the clothes
Speaker 1: of other family members, he's like, couldn't have been transferred.
Speaker 1: This is what Jed is saying the attorney and he
Speaker 1: the defense attorney, and he's like. The nerd goes, it's possible,
Speaker 1: and he goes, is it likely? And he goes under
Speaker 1: certain conditions, like I don't know. If I were on
Speaker 1: the jury, I'd probably be like, this guy doesn't seem
Speaker 1: like a piece of semen went in the wash onto
Speaker 1: this underwear, Like I don't know, that doesn't seem like
Speaker 1: science to me, but perhaps Stone calls the mom to
Speaker 1: the stage, to the stage, Oh my god, that's so crazy.
Speaker 1: Stone calls the mom to the stand, and Jed carried
Speaker 1: the defense attorney objects over spousal privilege, and the judge is, like,
Speaker 1: in my chambers. So they meet in chambers and somehow
Speaker 1: the judge agrees that this counts for spousal privilege, like
Speaker 1: you see your husband possibly doing something horrible to your child,
Speaker 1: Like maybe she couldn't testify to the fact that he said,
Speaker 1: don't say anything about this, because that's like pillow talk.
Speaker 1: But if you walked in on a crime being committed
Speaker 1: by your spouse, I.
Speaker 3: Don't think you're well.
Speaker 2: I also thought that was like to protect if you
Speaker 2: want enact it, But you can testify against someone you're
Speaker 2: married to, you can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I think the point is, I guess that
Speaker 1: they're making here is without a complaining witness, he has
Speaker 1: to sustain the objection.
Speaker 3: Like if there was a.
Speaker 1: Complaintant that was confirming that a crime occurred, then she
Speaker 1: could testify because she'd be testifying to a crime according
Speaker 1: But right now she's just a testifying to something she
Speaker 1: saw happen in their home, which I guess is protected.
Speaker 1: I don't get it, but I can't believe that. I
Speaker 1: can't believe that he stone would even go for it,
Speaker 1: thinking that this would be a possibility, because there's no
Speaker 1: case without that, like there's no case without what the
Speaker 1: mom saw, you know. So back at the office, the
Speaker 1: Live finds out that the lady on the bike who
Speaker 1: fell over screaming during the chase with Brian has a
Speaker 1: broken leg and she's gonna be at a cast for
Speaker 1: three months and lives having an existential crisis over it.
Speaker 1: She's a mom and a cop, and she's like, what
Speaker 1: happens when I wake up one day and I can't
Speaker 1: do one of those things? Am I less of? Am
Speaker 1: I less of a person? And she's just bummed. She
Speaker 1: got winded. She's like, I had to stop running and
Speaker 1: this woman broke got her leg broken because I couldn't
Speaker 1: catch the guy. And Finn's like, girl, I like ran
Speaker 1: in decades.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Finn's like, Babe, we're old, that's life. What are
Speaker 3: you gonna do. He's like, I feel the exact same way.
Speaker 3: I like it. My lungs can't fill with air.
Speaker 1: Like it's fine, the young guys can come with us
Speaker 1: and do the chases. It's also like people have like
Speaker 1: accidentally died in these chases. This broken legs, She'll be okay,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like it's just it's not great.
Speaker 1: But it's like she shouldn't be doubting her whole personality
Speaker 1: in life choices, Kreese meets Stone at some swanky bar
Speaker 1: and Stone's like, well, the trial's basically over because Cariesy's like,
Speaker 1: you're drinking before the trial and he's like, it's basically over,
Speaker 1: and Caresey tells him Sam is both terrified and embarrassed
Speaker 1: by his dad. Stone wants to get Sam on the stand,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't seem likely, so then Stone leaves and
Speaker 1: Caresey goes, I'll get your tab and then the tab
Speaker 1: they slide the tab over it and he goes, how
Speaker 1: much trouble am I in? And when he gets the tab,
Speaker 1: he goes, how long has he been here? So you
Speaker 1: hit the feeling that Stone is blacked out so in court,
Speaker 1: which is funny that we're completely fine with that here
Speaker 1: because he's in mourning and he's like a manly man da.
Speaker 1: But when it was Sonya, when it was Sonya Paxton,
Speaker 1: we couldn't allow her to be drunk in court, okay,
Speaker 1: double standard? In court, Stone calls the mom and the
Speaker 1: defense is like, I'm sorry, what the fuck? Like, didn't
Speaker 1: we just didn't we just go over this and it's
Speaker 1: not happening, And so they approached the bench and so
Speaker 1: and goes, well, circumstances have changed since the wife tampered
Speaker 1: with evidence. She's now a co conspirator, a co conspirator,
Speaker 1: and the judge is like, you'll have to charge her,
Speaker 1: and he goes, yep, I'm charging her. So now their
Speaker 1: communications are no longer protected because now they are co
Speaker 1: conspirators in a crime.
Speaker 2: Look at this, Oh gameplay maybe yeah, maybe the drunk idea,
Speaker 2: maybe a drunk idea from the bar.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he got wasted and was like, yes, thank you
Speaker 1: Johnny Walker for helping me come up with this. So
Speaker 1: we cut to the mom testifying to what she saw
Speaker 1: and how john later told her to keep her trap
Speaker 1: shut about it. Then on Cross, the defense is making
Speaker 1: her look like a liar because she never said anything, like,
Speaker 1: she never told anyone the story for a really long time.
Speaker 1: He's like, like, the first time did you talk to the cops,
Speaker 1: the second time you talked to the cops, did you
Speaker 1: tell them this?
Speaker 3: And she's like no, No, did you tell the nurse?
Speaker 3: Did you tell the principle?
Speaker 1: Like and he was like, that's why would you tell
Speaker 1: the principle anyway. She also, I saw something really weird
Speaker 1: in my house last night. She also admits that she
Speaker 1: doesn't know what happened in that room, only what she saw, and.
Speaker 3: It's like, what the fuck, Like what the fuck?
Speaker 1: So now Sam is on the stand and he's basically
Speaker 1: calling his mom a batshit.
Speaker 3: Little cuckoo bird.
Speaker 1: He's like, I love her, but she doesn't know what
Speaker 1: the fuck is going on or what she's saying. He
Speaker 1: denies on the sand that his dad assaulted him, and
Speaker 1: then his lawyer makes him tell the story of meeting
Speaker 1: the man on the hunting trip, like they don't ask
Speaker 1: him for one fucking corroborating thing.
Speaker 3: Where did you guys meet? Where did the sex take place?
Speaker 4: Like what?
Speaker 3: Like nothing?
Speaker 1: He doesn't know anything because it didn't happen on Stone's Cross.
Speaker 1: He asks Sam for all the details, and then he's like,
Speaker 1: it's kind of weird. You remember everything about the hunting trip,
Speaker 1: but you don't remember anything about the first time you
Speaker 1: had sex on that hunting trip. And Sam's like, listen,
Speaker 1: my dad killed a moose when he was twelve. My brother,
Speaker 1: my brother killed a deer when he was fifteen. It's
Speaker 1: like a write a passage in the family and then
Speaker 1: Stone asks Sam, like, were you scared of your dad
Speaker 1: during the hunting trip? And he goes, I just wanted
Speaker 1: to be a man, and he goes, right, and a
Speaker 1: man gets a man who gets scared needs to be punished,
Speaker 1: needs to be humiliated, right, and that's what your dad did.
Speaker 1: And Sam's like, no, no, my dad wouldn't do that,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, holding on so tight. Now the jury
Speaker 1: comes back with a not guilty verdict. Careese and Stone
Speaker 1: look at Sam and walk off like we tried to
Speaker 1: help you, kid, And then the mom is with the family,
Speaker 1: even though she just testified against her husband in court,
Speaker 1: like I'm not really understanding any of that like that,
Speaker 1: the mom's like, all right, well, I guess you're in
Speaker 1: a sense. We all go home like it's really weird,
Speaker 1: But that's part one.
Speaker 3: That's man. Man, she doesn't worry. You know what's she
Speaker 3: can now? I mean, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 1: If there's if there's, yeah, I'm sure that man has
Speaker 1: Like I just made her sign a prenup and a
Speaker 1: posting up and everything in between so that she gets
Speaker 1: nothing if she walks out the door. And that's also
Speaker 1: probably another reason why she's a stay at home mom.
Speaker 1: He probably demands that, right, like he wants like a tradwife.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Like she.
Speaker 1: Maybe she's like, hey, I was wondering if I could
Speaker 1: take a couple hours down at the cat shelter, and
Speaker 1: he's like, no, kill the cat.
Speaker 3: So anyway, man down. Next episode, we obviously get.
Speaker 1: The recap, and then the next thing we see, the
Speaker 1: cold open, we see Stone is on the front steps
Speaker 1: of the courthouse and he's obviously getting shit from his boss,
Speaker 1: the DA on the phone for losing because he does
Speaker 1: not believe that the fights you can't win are the
Speaker 1: ones worth fighting for.
Speaker 3: He does not believe that his boss.
Speaker 1: So Live follows Molly the Mom into the bathroom and
Speaker 1: she's like, I know what you're gonna say, and then
Speaker 1: she's like, listen, let's call CPS, like let's get Sam
Speaker 1: out of that house. And Molly's like, and break up
Speaker 1: our family because honestly she's indoctrinated too that like, the
Speaker 1: family is the core, the nuclear family is the core
Speaker 1: of the world, of society, of everything in your life,
Speaker 1: and so like to break up the family to keep
Speaker 1: her son safe.
Speaker 2: Yes, kids aren't safe Toget like, what, Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 2: like family is broken, babe, the family is broken.
Speaker 3: So many people are like, well, we stay together for
Speaker 3: the kids.
Speaker 1: And it's like when you guys hate each other and
Speaker 1: there's clearly like sort of like verbal or emotional abuse
Speaker 1: going on between you, and that's what you want. That's
Speaker 1: how that's better for the kids.
Speaker 3: Like it doesn't. It's wild.
Speaker 1: I know that it's like not cut and dry when
Speaker 1: it comes to divorce, but like there's so many people
Speaker 1: that want to stay together.
Speaker 2: But everyone's all so clearly scared of this man. Yeah
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, he is scared of this mother.
Speaker 3: And he has guns. Yes, exactly. He's like a hunting freak,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Right, And I'm sure he has nice skills, like he
Speaker 1: snapped the rabbit's fucking neck with his hands. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: lives like, no, I don't want to break up your family.
Speaker 1: I just want you to protect your son, which I
Speaker 1: know you've been trying to do, And she's like, I
Speaker 1: could keep it safe by staying with him, and then
Speaker 1: lives like how you cannot watch him all the time,
Speaker 1: And then she goes. The mom goes, John knows he
Speaker 1: crossed a line and lives like Jesus crossed the line,
Speaker 1: like he raped your son, and this woman is like
Speaker 1: du Lulu town. She goes, well, a jury found him
Speaker 1: not guilty, so maybe I didn't see what I saw.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean she's a victim too. Probably the
Speaker 1: alternative for her is years of legal and emotional battles.
Speaker 1: And that does sound like the move for her family
Speaker 1: and lives like okay, well, at least promise me that
Speaker 1: you'll all get counseling, and Molly's like, we don't need
Speaker 1: your help.
Speaker 3: Talk to you never, bye forever.
Speaker 1: And then the next morning, the mom is up to
Speaker 1: get Sam up for school.
Speaker 3: She goes into his room. It's like six thirty.
Speaker 1: She's lying and he's lying in bed, looking traumatized, just
Speaker 1: generally traumatized.
Speaker 3: She's like, you don't have to go to school today,
Speaker 3: but he's like really.
Speaker 1: And at first he's like, oh really, and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't have to go, and he goes, no, I
Speaker 1: want to go.
Speaker 3: I want to go. And then now they're.
Speaker 1: All at the breakfast table, huge apartment again massive, and
Speaker 1: they're at this like long breakfast table for four people
Speaker 1: talking about baseball practice and Molly's like, maybe I can
Speaker 1: pick you guys up after practice and we can go
Speaker 1: to shake Shack, and the Dad's like, Molly, they're teenagers,
Speaker 1: not toddlers, and it's like, yeah, actually toddlers hate shake Shack,
Speaker 1: you rapist fuck Like, like I guess because she's offering
Speaker 1: to pick them up, and they're like, we could take
Speaker 1: the subway, mom, we're men. And so this breakfast is
Speaker 1: really fucking tense. Like Sam is picking up oja to
Speaker 1: drink it and his hand is fucking trembling. It's really
Speaker 1: really tense. Everyone seems like they're walking on eggshells over
Speaker 1: the dead. They're trying to make sure Sam's like not
Speaker 1: gonna lose it. Brian and Sam are now walking into
Speaker 1: school and Brian's like, just keep your head down, don't
Speaker 1: say shit to anyone, text me if you need me.
Speaker 1: I don't care that the school has no phone rules.
Speaker 1: Don't be a pussy and just use your phone. I'll
Speaker 1: protect you. I won't let anything bad happen to you
Speaker 1: ever again. So that's an admission from the Sun the
Speaker 1: other son that something bad happens. He's like, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna let anything happen you ever again. So now Sam
Speaker 1: walks into school and it's like whether it's true or
Speaker 1: not because I can't tell whether people at school knew
Speaker 1: what was happening because his name would have been kept
Speaker 1: out of the papers if he's a minor, right, but
Speaker 1: the dad's.
Speaker 3: Name probably would have been.
Speaker 1: People would have been talking. So he walks into school.
Speaker 1: It's like, you can he probably missed school to testify.
Speaker 1: I don't know, right, It's like, my thing is, you
Speaker 1: wouldn't send a kid back to that school at all,
Speaker 1: like they would start a new school, they would go
Speaker 1: to like a new life, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: You couldn't send your kid back to school after he
Speaker 1: has stood trial in a case about he's dad raping him.
Speaker 1: So anyway, Sam walks into school. He feels everybody looking
Speaker 1: at him, like all these heads are turning. People are
Speaker 1: like looking at him. Long stairs. A friend, Yeah, like
Speaker 1: the girlfriend girl is there and she's looking at him,
Speaker 1: and then she walks up to him and she's like saying,
Speaker 1: such a baby face.
Speaker 2: Like that's the thing. Like the cast sing in this
Speaker 2: is so good? Do you really feel for this boy
Speaker 2: and the abuse?
Speaker 3: It just sucks.
Speaker 2: It really is like an upsetting Yeah, great, role, great role.
Speaker 3: He's you know, smashed it. Yeah, he does really really
Speaker 3: great work in this.
Speaker 1: And his the girlfriend girl walks up to him and
Speaker 1: is like Sam, Sam, and he just ignores her and
Speaker 1: he just stands in the doorway staring.
Speaker 3: And so then all the kids have entered the school
Speaker 3: and he's.
Speaker 1: Just staring there and he's got his baseball bag over
Speaker 1: his shoulder and then he like holds the baseball bag like.
Speaker 3: A gun and you're like fuck.
Speaker 1: And then he walks into school and there's a big
Speaker 1: wide shot of the school and we hear gunshots and
Speaker 1: screams and that's the credits. So obviously this episode comes
Speaker 1: out in twenty eighteen, were almost twenty years past the
Speaker 1: epidemic of school shootings, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: the column mine was in ninety nine, So any of
Speaker 1: us watching this show are like, we know what's happening, right,
Speaker 1: Like everyone is flooding out of the school.
Speaker 3: They're getting the breakdown.
Speaker 1: Single shooter, male semi automatic hunting rifle, at least six victims.
Speaker 1: The principals there says the shooter just kept shooting with
Speaker 1: this dead look in his eye, and they're like, who
Speaker 1: was it?
Speaker 3: And she's like.
Speaker 1: Sam Conway is the shooter, which of course we know,
Speaker 1: but Live and Rollins are like, what like the fact
Speaker 1: that they would get a call to that school about
Speaker 1: a school shooting and not go immediately it's Sam Conway,
Speaker 1: Like you should know what's happening.
Speaker 3: It's like the day after the trial.
Speaker 1: So now Careesi and Finn are talking to Brian and
Speaker 1: he's like, I don't know where Sam is. I don't
Speaker 1: know where he is because apparently they found his gun,
Speaker 1: but he's escaped somehow. He got out in the flood
Speaker 1: of students, like he just kind of blended inside.
Speaker 3: How An escaped.
Speaker 1: So now Brian said what he saw was Sam shooting,
Speaker 1: and he went up to him and said, what the
Speaker 1: hell are you doing?
Speaker 3: Sam?
Speaker 1: Just stop it totally what you'd say to your brother
Speaker 1: while he's shooting up at school. And then Sam just
Speaker 1: said are you happy now? And then he said Sam
Speaker 1: also kept saying I need to concentrate. You don't concentrate,
Speaker 1: you lose the game, which is yeah, kind of a disturbing,
Speaker 1: you know thing to be whispering to.
Speaker 3: Yourself as you are shooting up a school.
Speaker 1: So Careese says that makes Caresy remember all their sports
Speaker 1: chats and he goes, I know where to find Sam.
Speaker 1: Thinn goes tell ESU and Cariese goes, no, they're going
Speaker 1: to kill him like on site, and Finn goes, maybe
Speaker 1: they should, which is a bit of a hearkening back
Speaker 1: to Finn from older days, like Finn used to be
Speaker 1: very black and white. But it's like Finn, you know,
Speaker 1: this is a traumatized kid whose father sexually assaulted him.
Speaker 3: Like, let's give.
Speaker 1: Him a small, tiny, teeny break, you know, even though
Speaker 1: a school shooting is obviously horrific, but maybe let's not
Speaker 1: shoot him on site. And so Careesy finds Sam at
Speaker 1: the same baseball field where they had their chats before.
Speaker 1: Cariese identifies himself and is like, hands where I can
Speaker 1: see him. Sam stands up and he has a handgun
Speaker 1: and he's got it to his head and he's just
Speaker 1: going just let me die.
Speaker 3: I don't deserve to live.
Speaker 1: I don't deserve to eat chocolate chip waffles or play
Speaker 1: baseball or kiss girls, and Cariesy tries to convince him, like,
Speaker 1: you don't do that, that's taking the easy way out.
Speaker 1: He's kind of appealing to, like his sense of masculinity,
Speaker 1: that's been like fucking beaten into him, and he's like,
Speaker 1: that's not justice for your friends. And he tries to
Speaker 1: convince him also that it will be really mean for
Speaker 1: your dad for you to kill yourself, like your dad's
Speaker 1: really worried about you. And he's like, you talk to
Speaker 1: my dad and he's like, yeah, he's super worried, man,
Speaker 1: and you're definitely gonna send him the message that you
Speaker 1: hate him.
Speaker 3: And he's like, no, I don't hate him. I love him.
Speaker 1: And it's like this kid is so gone, Like even
Speaker 1: after he's done all this, even after he's seen like
Speaker 1: what has turned him into a monster, he's still like,
Speaker 1: my dad's the fucking best and like it just you know,
Speaker 1: it just shows you like this kind of conditioning from
Speaker 1: an abusive parent can really be hard to unravel from.
Speaker 1: And anyway, care he starts putting the gun down a
Speaker 1: little bit, Caresy tackles into the ground, gets the gun,
Speaker 1: and Sam's yelling.
Speaker 3: I should have just shot the rabbit. I should have
Speaker 3: just shot the rabbit. And he's crying. So we're not
Speaker 3: letting go of this rabbit.
Speaker 1: It's a real metaphor, and live is now filling in stone.
Speaker 3: Two kids died in the shooting.
Speaker 1: They were dead on arrival, Heather Lewis, age sixteen, and
Speaker 1: Justin Cruz, age seventeen. Five victims total, four were students,
Speaker 1: one is in critical condition, and one was a teacher.
Speaker 1: So they did say six victims earlier. It is six victims.
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's not.
Speaker 3: It's five. It's five victims, but they said six earlier.
Speaker 1: Anyway, he only fired thirteen shots, but that gun holds
Speaker 1: a ton of rounds, which is kind of wild, and
Speaker 1: they're like yeah. Also, the saving grease was that he's
Speaker 1: also a bad shot, like, you know, he doesn't shoot well.
Speaker 1: So and he also had a handgun that he never fired,
Speaker 1: and the mom swears that both guns were locked in
Speaker 1: a gun safe, So I guess he figured out the combo.
Speaker 1: He wasn't aiming at anyone specific. And Stone's like yeah,
Speaker 1: because he wasn't trying to Like, this wasn't like kids
Speaker 1: bullied me and I'm getting back at them.
Speaker 3: This is like my dad.
Speaker 1: I want to show my dad that I can like
Speaker 1: shoot things, and uh so it's about the dad. So
Speaker 1: then John Conway shows up with his lawyer and has
Speaker 1: the nerve to scream at Stone.
Speaker 3: He's like, where's my boy? And the lawyer is.
Speaker 1: Trying to say that nothing that the kids said without
Speaker 1: counsel is admissible, but they're like, dog, he already confessed
Speaker 1: and he has. There are dozens of eyewitnesses like, you
Speaker 1: need to actually sit down. You won a very improbable
Speaker 1: case and you should just take it and leave it.
Speaker 1: At that moment, they obviously marched Sam right past his
Speaker 1: dad and he's profusely apologizing like sorry, I'm sorry, and
Speaker 1: his dad just fucking backhands him and yells, what did
Speaker 1: you do? And then he blames the cops for putting
Speaker 1: sick ideas in his son's head, and that the sick
Speaker 1: ideas that aren't true is what made him shoot up
Speaker 1: a school. So they escort the dad out. They're like,
Speaker 1: get him out of it, Liz like, get this man
Speaker 1: out of my precinct. So we cut to Stone definitely
Speaker 1: handling the stress in a healthy way. He is back
Speaker 1: at a bar watching the school shooting coverage on TV
Speaker 1: and live tracks him down through his assistant. The updates
Speaker 1: are that Sam has pleaded not guilty, which means Stone
Speaker 1: is like, I might have to take this kid to trial,
Speaker 1: and they're like, and now he's at a juvenile.
Speaker 2: Not guilty though, like reason of insand like we know
Speaker 2: you did it, like it is leading, not guilty, it
Speaker 2: is wild.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, maybe he was trying to do
Speaker 3: a mental disease or defect. I don't know.
Speaker 1: But he's at a juvenile facility now under suicide watch,
Speaker 1: and Stone is punishing himself. He's like, I shouldn't have
Speaker 1: cross examined him at the trial. I should have seen
Speaker 1: how damaged he was and lives like, yeah, his dad
Speaker 1: raped him, that's why he's damage. And he's like yeah,
Speaker 1: and then I did it all over again on the
Speaker 1: witness stand, Like I didn't even think his cross examination
Speaker 1: was like that wild.
Speaker 3: I've seen them be way worse to people, but to victims.
Speaker 3: But Stone's blaming himself.
Speaker 1: So now Caresie and Rolins are chatting at the juvenile
Speaker 1: facility and she's explaining to Kreesee how stressful it is
Speaker 1: having kids, like you just worry about them constantly.
Speaker 3: It's like breathing underwater.
Speaker 1: And she's getting really emotional imagining like this happening to
Speaker 1: one of her kids. And I can't tell if she's
Speaker 1: imagining them getting shot at school or them being a
Speaker 1: school shooter. But she's getting very emotional and like starting
Speaker 1: to cry, and the States psych for Sam Conway comes in.
Speaker 1: It's doctor Lisa Abernathy. This is her first episode, but
Speaker 1: she's also Lisa Abernathy returns in the episode Exile and
Speaker 1: the episode Caretaker. And this actress Sandrine Holt was in
Speaker 1: episode seven, was in season seventeen in the episode Fashionable Crimes.
Speaker 1: I know her from Mister Robot. She's only in two episodes,
Speaker 1: but she's very memorable and she's in tons of stuff.
Speaker 1: She was in Maguyvers series and all kinds of other crap.
Speaker 1: So they ask, where's doctor Olivett, which, if you know
Speaker 1: your Law and Order, doctor Olivett is like an og
Speaker 1: Law and Order character. She's a child psychologist in episodes
Speaker 1: of regular original Recipe back in like the Jerry Orbach days,
Speaker 1: and she's done some crossover into SPU as well.
Speaker 3: And doctor Olivett blessed her.
Speaker 1: Heart is at a wedding in Tuscany and that's why
Speaker 1: doctor Aberhathy is there Tuscany.
Speaker 3: Cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So now she goes, let's talk about Sam, and
Speaker 1: then we see her session with Sam and he asks like,
Speaker 1: do you have kids? Because if you have kids. I
Speaker 1: know you already hate me. And she's like, I don't
Speaker 1: hate you. And she says, but my wife and I
Speaker 1: have a boy and a girl, and he's like I
Speaker 1: think he picks up, like he's like, oh, well, you.
Speaker 3: Know you're gay.
Speaker 1: My dad told everyone that I'm gay, but I'm not.
Speaker 1: And then he's like, my dad is a good dad.
Speaker 1: He looks out for us. And then she's like, tell
Speaker 1: me a memory about your dad. And the first memory
Speaker 1: he goes to being four years old and putting his
Speaker 1: one of his little toy soldiers they're sword into an
Speaker 1: electrical outlet and his dad whipping him with a belt
Speaker 1: for doing that, and he's like, it hurt and I
Speaker 1: was crying, but you know what, I never forgot and
Speaker 1: I never did it again.
Speaker 3: And it's wild.
Speaker 1: But now we're in a large group walk and talk
Speaker 1: outside and we're moving fast and furious. It's Abernathy Stone
Speaker 1: live Finn and they're walking four across Sex in the
Speaker 1: city style and they are on the move. Okay, they
Speaker 1: have no time, and she goes, I don't think Sam
Speaker 1: is insane, and I don't think he was insane at
Speaker 1: the time of the shooting. He knew it was wrong,
Speaker 1: he knew the consequences. He feels remorse. He grew up
Speaker 1: in a traditional male household, but to the extreme like
Speaker 1: and Stone is like, oh, like you gotta kill animals,
Speaker 1: you don't cry, You got to tough it out. She's
Speaker 1: like yeah, basically. And then they're like, will you testify,
Speaker 1: and she goes, I will, but I really hope I
Speaker 1: don't have to, because this boy is on the verge
Speaker 1: of collapse. So now we're back at Stone office and
Speaker 1: the Conways are waiting there and they let Stone know, listen,
Speaker 1: Sam's decided to plead guilty. They think going through the
Speaker 1: trial would be wrong for the families, and then he
Speaker 1: says like, we take responsibility for Sam's actions and we
Speaker 1: don't really want to put anyone through any more pain.
Speaker 1: And they're like, really, this is Sam's decision. They're like, yep,
Speaker 1: we've all decided as a family and this is the thing.
Speaker 1: And they're like, how long will he be in prison?
Speaker 1: The mom asks and Stone goes, well, he'll likely be
Speaker 1: tried as an adult and the time will be substantial.
Speaker 3: And they're like all right, well, thanks, nice doing business
Speaker 3: with you.
Speaker 1: And then John Conway goes to shake Stone's hand, and
Speaker 1: Stone stone walls him. He's like, absolutely not, am I
Speaker 1: touching your psychotic rapist hand for a handshake.
Speaker 3: And it's pretty satisfying to see that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to have that man be like completely denied, like
Speaker 1: especially by another masculine man like man to man, this
Speaker 1: guy's just like fucking rejecting him and I like that.
Speaker 3: So Live is pretty pissed.
Speaker 1: She's like, so now Sam's gonna go to jail for
Speaker 1: life and the dad's just gonna walk And Stone's like,
Speaker 1: hell no, this ain't over, not by a long shot.
Speaker 1: So now Stone is at the juvenile facility talking to Sam,
Speaker 1: and Sam's like in a little yellow juvenile facility jumpsuit,
Speaker 1: and he's finality is fully different, Like yeah, he has
Speaker 1: like a new swagger about him. Yes, yes, Juvie has
Speaker 1: toughened him up real quick, and he's like, listen, he's
Speaker 1: like a cool.
Speaker 3: I don't know, like suddenly he was he became really cool. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know it's fucked up to say, but he's
Speaker 2: just like he knows there's no future and I don't know,
Speaker 2: they're just a new vibe to him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think he's like giving it up, he's
Speaker 1: given up. He's like, my life is over. Basically, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna like rot in jail for the rest of
Speaker 1: my life.
Speaker 3: And he's like Stone reminds him.
Speaker 1: He's like, you are going to go to prison and
Speaker 1: maybe for the rest of your life. And he's like, yep,
Speaker 1: it's my decision and not my dad's, and I want
Speaker 1: you to leave. And as soon as Stone walks away,
Speaker 1: Sam just launches into a story about one of his victims.
Speaker 1: Like Stone walks away, and he goes Heather Lewis. I
Speaker 1: went to a party at her house and she played
Speaker 1: Rihanna all night. I'm like, oh, so she was really cool,
Speaker 1: Like that's cool, that's fun that she was.
Speaker 3: Playing Rihann all night. We love Rihanna.
Speaker 1: And then he goes Justin Cruz. I didn't really know him,
Speaker 1: but apparently he was a math genius and he had
Speaker 1: a little sister. She was only five. So he's acting
Speaker 1: more hard, but he is like you could tell he's
Speaker 1: like fucked up that he like realizes he took two
Speaker 1: people's lives, you know, and he's obviously very sad.
Speaker 2: He knows he has to plead guilty, Like he doesn't
Speaker 2: even knows what he did was wrong.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think a little bit of the shit,
Speaker 1: like there's a little bit of like chips.
Speaker 3: And the armor happening.
Speaker 1: Like he's like, yeah, my mom went to the funerals
Speaker 1: and no one even looked at her, Like I don't
Speaker 1: think he likes that his mom is being outcast because
Speaker 1: of something he did, which is because of something the
Speaker 1: dad did, you know. And Stone apologizes and suddenly Sam's
Speaker 1: all agro and he goes, don't you know only pussy's
Speaker 1: apologize and he tells Stone, you know, I didn't even
Speaker 1: want to go to school that day, and his dad
Speaker 1: pushed him. No excuses, no regrets. Men look to the future,
Speaker 1: not the past, he said. His dad said to him,
Speaker 1: I don't even know why I bothered. I guess I
Speaker 1: was a waste of his time because it didn't work,
Speaker 1: Like it was a waste of his time to rape
Speaker 1: his son because he still didn't turn into a man.
Speaker 2: He didn't then kill a bunny like yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I just don't even get what you want from this
Speaker 2: kid to I know, shall what be the worst person ever?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And Stone goes, oh, so right after your dad was
Speaker 1: a complete fucking asshole to you the morning after the
Speaker 1: trial and you had to go to school.
Speaker 3: Uh, and force you to go to school?
Speaker 1: Stone is like, is that when you put the rifle
Speaker 1: in your bat baseball bag? And the guy the kid's like,
Speaker 1: I gotta go, Like they only give us a little
Speaker 1: bit of time outside and he walks away, and so
Speaker 1: Stone calls live immediately and is like, I want to
Speaker 1: go after the dad. I want to go after John Conway.
Speaker 1: So we cut to the mom. We cut to the
Speaker 1: mom downing a pill with a gloss of white wine. Okay,
Speaker 1: so she's she's in it, okay, And she visits Sam,
Speaker 1: she says every day for one hour, and she seems
Speaker 1: like unraveled and fully unhinged. And John's just she goes.
Speaker 1: They're like, what about you, husb, Because Sam just like.
Speaker 2: I obviously he's just like a regressive psychopathmaniac. But it's like,
Speaker 2: what did the dad want with these sons? Just to
Speaker 2: be hyper masculine dickheads, just like to hit women, kill
Speaker 2: animals and never apologize and be good as for I
Speaker 2: don't get that then you'd be happy or would you
Speaker 2: just keep picking and picking like it's it's insane, right?
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, no, a dad like this would never be.
Speaker 1: Happy you could get varsity if you're not like making
Speaker 1: major League Baseball, you're not. And then even then if
Speaker 1: you're not in the Hall of Fame, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like, this guy would keep raising the bar
Speaker 1: like but the mom says, oh, John's just kind of
Speaker 1: ignoring it, you know, stiff upper lip and all that,
Speaker 1: like that's how he was raised, and Live tells her, well,
Speaker 1: we think he should be prosecuted for creating an environment
Speaker 1: where Sam believed that shooting is what makes you a man.
Speaker 3: And the mom is like screaming.
Speaker 1: She's like, oh does that help Sam? These dead teenagers
Speaker 1: and lives, Like what about your other son, your other
Speaker 1: son who lives in your home in is seventeen, And
Speaker 1: she's freaking out and is like, this, all this happened
Speaker 1: because I went against my husband. That's probably what he
Speaker 1: told her, and like just the mere fact of going
Speaker 1: against your husband's word brought all this devastation upon your family.
Speaker 1: And she's like and I'm like, personally, I think this
Speaker 1: man would kill her, Like I think the minute she testify,
Speaker 1: this man would kill her. Figure out a way to
Speaker 1: kill her, figure out a way to cover it up,
Speaker 1: or make it look like an accident or a suicide
Speaker 1: or something like that, like this man would kill her.
Speaker 1: She regrets not keeping him home from school that day,
Speaker 1: and she's like, all my husband wants wife.
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, you would definitely kill this woman. But
Speaker 2: also all you do is preach all this masculinity shit,
Speaker 2: like why wouldn't your kid think that they're school shooting
Speaker 2: was the way to do it? Yeah, it is all
Speaker 2: the things that you talked about, you know.
Speaker 1: Right right, yeah, just like to I mean, and this
Speaker 1: kid like loves animals, so maybe he's just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: my dad wants me to take lives and he's not
Speaker 1: even like, you know, make equating a difference to it.
Speaker 1: But all her husband wants, she says, is for their
Speaker 1: boys to become men.
Speaker 3: That's all he wants. That's all he wants. Is that
Speaker 3: so much? Is that too much to ask? He just
Speaker 3: wants them to be men? Oh? Gross? Anyway, as I
Speaker 3: bought my son three.
Speaker 1: Dresses for his birthday this year, I would say I'm
Speaker 1: not relating to this style of parenting.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: Now, Rollins have been our talking to the brother Brian,
Speaker 1: who's still claiming that the dad rules, and you know,
Speaker 1: they never get to the bottom of whether anything like
Speaker 1: this happened to Brian, Like I'm sure Brian was also assaulted,
Speaker 1: but they never really get to it in the episode.
Speaker 1: Unless Brian is just more hyper masculine by nature and
Speaker 1: like you know, was always down with the stuff his
Speaker 1: dad told him to do, so we never had to be.
Speaker 3: Quote unquote punished.
Speaker 1: But he claims in this conversation we were always treated
Speaker 1: the same growing up. And he's like, and I never
Speaker 1: shot anyone, And he's like, I should have known that
Speaker 1: Sam was going to do something like that.
Speaker 3: And he's really upset.
Speaker 1: He's and he's blaming himself, like everyone's blaming himself in
Speaker 1: the don't accept the person who's responsible.
Speaker 3: And he's upset the sun and.
Speaker 1: Like Rollins has her hand on his shoulder and he
Speaker 1: just shoves her hand off, and like, I wonder if
Speaker 1: that was like improvised or whatever, because Rollins looks truly shocked.
Speaker 1: She's like, men love my hands on their shoulder. She's like,
Speaker 1: why are you taking my hand off your shoulder? But
Speaker 1: he's like, my friends are dead, my mom's a mess,
Speaker 1: my brother's in jail forever. And he's like, this is
Speaker 1: all your guy's fault and you should blame yourself.
Speaker 3: So maybe he doesn't blame himself.
Speaker 1: He really thinks it's the cops, but lives breaking it
Speaker 1: down now for Stone, Molly Conway isn't talking, she'll lie
Speaker 1: if you subpoena her, and lives like, I kind of
Speaker 1: don't blame her. She's like at the end of her rope.
Speaker 1: And Brian's like lost his brother. He's not gonna lose
Speaker 1: his dad too.
Speaker 3: Anyway. That just leaves Sam.
Speaker 1: So Sam's the only one that could possibly aid in
Speaker 1: this trial going anywhere. So now they go and they
Speaker 1: find John Conway and obviously he's at the shooting range
Speaker 1: where he probably has like a raging boner in his
Speaker 1: pants while he's target shooting, and.
Speaker 3: They bring him in for murder.
Speaker 1: So now Stone is talking to Conway and his lawyer again,
Speaker 1: and who goes, are you guys kidding me? My yoga's what?
Speaker 1: My wife's yoga pants don't stretch this much? And you
Speaker 1: know you got it? That feels like an old school
Speaker 1: style joke for the show. And I got a hand
Speaker 1: it to them, And Stone explains the situation using a
Speaker 1: metaphor about pit bulls. He goes, you know pitbulls actually
Speaker 1: make very good pets. It's their owners who turn them
Speaker 1: into killers. He's like, you fail to perceive a substantial
Speaker 1: and justifiable risk that he would harm others, and then
Speaker 1: that led to a crime, and those things together are
Speaker 1: criminally negligent homicide.
Speaker 3: And so he goes, are you saying I didn't bring
Speaker 3: my boy up right? It's like, are you kid? Like
Speaker 3: that's where you're going at.
Speaker 1: Nobody not like I don't think that there's a ton
Speaker 1: of parents of school shooters who are like, we did
Speaker 1: everything correctly. There's no parents in the world that say
Speaker 1: we did everything correctly. But this man is like, I'm
Speaker 1: perfect and I did nothing wrong. And his lawyer calls
Speaker 1: it a snowflake defense. Daddy made me do it, and
Speaker 1: they just walk out. Rollins and Live are chatting about
Speaker 1: the case in the breakroom. Rollins thinks that under Stone's
Speaker 1: logic that they the cops are responsible for what Sam
Speaker 1: did is well, we also knew that he could commit
Speaker 1: something like this. We saw that he was upset and damaged,
Speaker 1: like then the onus would be on us as well,
Speaker 1: and Lives like, yeah, but we didn't put guns in
Speaker 1: his apartment and Rollin's like, but this kid would have
Speaker 1: found another weapon. She's really trying the guns don't kill people,
Speaker 1: people kill people argument with Olivia, and then Lives like,
Speaker 1: don't go all Second Amendment on me, and then she goes,
Speaker 1: I just want to know why Roe versus Wade as sacrisanct.
Speaker 1: This is Rolin's I just want to know why Roe
Speaker 1: versus Wade is sacriscanct and the Second Amendment is disposable.
Speaker 1: It's like she's being so Georgia right now, and Live
Speaker 1: goes because one kills one kills and Rolind goes, well
Speaker 1: in Georgia, they both do. So now it's like this,
Speaker 1: this gun control situation is now turning into a abortion
Speaker 1: like situation, and Rollins wants to know what do you
Speaker 1: think is worse having your kid killed or having your
Speaker 1: kid be the one who kills someone, and Live can't
Speaker 1: believe that Rollins might be thinking of having a gasp
Speaker 1: abortion like. Rollins iss like, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: need another baby. I don't know if I want another baby.
Speaker 1: She said, if I was back home, this would be
Speaker 1: easier because I wouldn't have a choice. Could I would
Speaker 1: just have to have this baby. And then Live takes
Speaker 1: Rollin's her, takes her phone and shows her a video
Speaker 1: of Jesse, and I really hate it when Live goes
Speaker 1: so pro life like Rollins is a cop who works constantly.
Speaker 1: The dad is like a sociopathic cheater who lies to
Speaker 1: her face. I think she's an excellent candidate for an abortion.
Speaker 1: To be honest, like she already has like a young
Speaker 1: child at home. It's not like she's never going to
Speaker 1: have her chance to be a mom and Lives like, listen,
Speaker 1: I will defact she anyway. She shows her this video
Speaker 1: and goes, you told me that was the best day
Speaker 1: of your life, and it's like, okay, yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of cute videos of your kids. First of all,
Speaker 1: having a second kid is very is much harder than
Speaker 1: having one. And then like you know, we all know,
Speaker 1: Rollins goes on to have three. How it's happening as
Speaker 1: a fully working cop, I'll never know. And she's a
Speaker 1: professor now too, well, now she's a professor. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: hopefully she's getting child support from both of these dads.
Speaker 1: To be honest, so Lives like, I will defend your
Speaker 1: debt to the death, your right to make this decision.
Speaker 1: But also She's like, you basically will regret this abortion
Speaker 1: and you'll have to live with it forever and that
Speaker 1: will be terrible. Like so lives like, so you had one,
Speaker 1: you had an abortion, And Live's face gets really serious
Speaker 1: and she walks away, And I don't know if we
Speaker 1: ever find the truth out about this, if she's had one.
Speaker 3: No, But.
Speaker 1: It's like Live is okay with a kid getting an abortion,
Speaker 1: like an underage person who's been assaulted, but like a
Speaker 1: grown woman.
Speaker 2: There's like that thirteen year old that was gonna have
Speaker 2: a kid, and she's like, you'll figure it out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you'll have fun.
Speaker 2: She is like pro life, like, sorry, it's the truth.
Speaker 3: No, she'll fight for the right.
Speaker 1: She's pro choice, but she's anti abortion. She doesn't like
Speaker 1: she would never choose it for herself or her loved ones.
Speaker 3: I would say maybe she did. We don't know. She
Speaker 3: just you know, she just well she alluded that she yeah, shit, Or.
Speaker 2: Did they want to make it like a great what
Speaker 2: do you think the right? You know, like do they
Speaker 2: not want to know us? Or she just doesn't want
Speaker 2: to say no, because then sounds.
Speaker 1: Like a question we have to ask Mauritia Cahrgate one
Speaker 1: day because that is really interesting.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that would be crazy. First question, so,
Speaker 3: has lived had an abortion?
Speaker 1: Well, because I mean, like we know she we know
Speaker 1: that the actress in real life too, is religious but
Speaker 1: also pro choice, you know.
Speaker 3: So yeah, anyway.
Speaker 2: And she's captain here now, right, Yeah, because that's another
Speaker 2: thing because I was also thinking, like with her getting
Speaker 2: winded and stuff, like maybe in the last step. You know,
Speaker 2: it's the two parter, but it is this thing of like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, Craigan wasn't on the scene of every crime. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if you're in charge of the whole department, like Craigan
Speaker 2: was in the office, like you've.
Speaker 1: He's actually not captain yet she becomes she's lieutenant, and
Speaker 1: she becomes the captain in twenty one, season twenty one, damn,
Speaker 1: and this is season twenty so she's lieutenant even when
Speaker 1: she season twenty one, even when she's captain, she's on
Speaker 1: the scene because she's the star of the fucking show.
Speaker 1: But Craigan does show up to a lot of crime scenes,
Speaker 1: just not every single one.
Speaker 2: You're right, you are right, But he's also not doing
Speaker 2: the running and the stuff, like it is kind we do.
Speaker 1: Not see Cragan running after a perp. We do not
Speaker 1: see that.
Speaker 3: It's like, give yourself some grace, girl.
Speaker 1: So back in court, the dad is on the stand
Speaker 1: and he's talking about how he treats his boys the
Speaker 1: exact same and he just wanted them to be tough
Speaker 1: so the world wouldn't chew them up and spit them out.
Speaker 1: And he tries to paint himself as the best dad ever.
Speaker 1: You know, some guys they get home from work and
Speaker 1: they're just too tired, But not me. I take my
Speaker 1: kids to the park and I play ball with them,
Speaker 1: I take them hunting and fishing, and can someone explain
Speaker 1: to me what is so wrong about wanting your boys
Speaker 1: to grow up to be men. And now it's Stone's turn,
Speaker 1: and he's like he's got bad dad, like bragging about
Speaker 1: his kids making varsity and saying men shouldn't be afraid
Speaker 1: to shoot rabbits.
Speaker 3: But then he starts some shit with Stone on the stand.
Speaker 2: You know, they shouldn't be scared, but it's like what
Speaker 2: if they don't want to? Yeah, like that's never crossed
Speaker 2: his mind where it's like we should be and it's
Speaker 2: like okay, but then the other people should be able
Speaker 2: to do what they want and your son didn't want
Speaker 2: to fucking hunt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and of the fucking day you piece right.
Speaker 2: Shit. I just hate that he is not even questioning
Speaker 2: himself once.
Speaker 3: Ray Ray right, it is. Yeah, honestly, he infuriated me
Speaker 3: this much.
Speaker 2: And in his Annihilation episode too, he really pisses me off. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I get actor because I fucking hate his guts.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, he sucks.
Speaker 1: And what's crazy is in Niptuck he's like the likable
Speaker 1: one for most of it and his partner is like
Speaker 1: the asshole and their partners at like a they do
Speaker 1: plastic surgery. But uh, he's kind of the likable, like
Speaker 1: good guy with like a wife and a family, and
Speaker 1: then of course, like his life gets sucked up as
Speaker 1: the show goes on. But he's not a sociopath the
Speaker 1: way he is in all these other shows we see
Speaker 1: him in, or at least in this one, both.
Speaker 3: Of his roles.
Speaker 1: He so this dad starts to try to like start
Speaker 1: some shit with Stone, and Stone serves it like right
Speaker 1: back to him and is like, you would say, I
Speaker 1: have balls, right, and not having balls is the worst
Speaker 1: thing a man can have, So I'd be like a
Speaker 1: girl because being a woman is the world worst thing
Speaker 1: a man can be like, and like, are you proud
Speaker 1: of how your son has like the lifelong shame of
Speaker 1: never being able to live up to your his dad's
Speaker 1: perverse sense of manhood, because there's nothing worse than being
Speaker 1: a little girl. And you know we just the dad's
Speaker 1: kind of like just stunned on the stand. But afterwards,
Speaker 1: Stone's telling Live it didn't go great in court today,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to call Sam as a rebuttal witness.
Speaker 1: So even after he's like why did I cross examine
Speaker 1: this kid, He's like, get him back on the stand.
Speaker 3: I need to get this dad.
Speaker 1: So you know, all that drinking is really making him
Speaker 1: forget a lot of his guilt. So now top of
Speaker 1: the final act, Sam is on the stand and now
Speaker 1: his head is shaved, so shit's gotten crazy at Juvie.
Speaker 1: So then he gets Sam to testify to like what
Speaker 1: would happen if your dad was ever unhappy with you?
Speaker 3: Like what would he do?
Speaker 1: And he's like, he'd call me a baby, a pussy
Speaker 1: and f the F word slur And after he wouldn't
Speaker 1: shoot the rabbit, he told him that until further notice,
Speaker 1: he was a little girl and that he was gonna
Speaker 1: call him Samantha, and he threw one of his wife's
Speaker 1: dresses at Sam and told him to wear it. And
Speaker 1: then he goes, what were you thinking about before you
Speaker 1: shot your schoolmates?
Speaker 3: Like, what were you thinking?
Speaker 1: And he goes, I was thinking, be a man, and
Speaker 1: he goes a voice was saying that over and over
Speaker 1: in his head.
Speaker 3: Be a man, Be a man.
Speaker 1: And then he gets up and he screams at his
Speaker 1: dad and goes, and I didn't flinch. How's that, dad,
Speaker 1: I didn't flinch. Am I a man now? And it's like, wow, fuck,
Speaker 1: Finally this kid is at least standing up for himself,
Speaker 1: you know, and advocating for how fucking psycho his dad
Speaker 1: was closing arguments, the defense is up first, going my
Speaker 1: client and put the gun in his hand, he didn't
Speaker 1: pull the trigger.
Speaker 3: And if we all start.
Speaker 1: Taking responsibility for the act of our kids, we better
Speaker 1: all start losing weight because it's going to be a
Speaker 1: tight squeeze in Attica. And now it's Stone's turn, and
Speaker 1: he's pointing out that John wasn't preaching strength to his kids.
Speaker 1: He was preaching power over others, which isn't being a man,
Speaker 1: it's being a criminal.
Speaker 3: And the jury they agree.
Speaker 1: They find him guilty of criminally negligent homicide. The lawyer
Speaker 1: looks pissed, but it's like, you did win very obvious
Speaker 1: case of incest rape. But Brian and Molly are stunned,
Speaker 1: the wife and the older brother, and now that's kind
Speaker 1: of the end of that story. The final beat of
Speaker 1: the episode is We're at Olivia's apartment and she's talking
Speaker 1: to that little shit Noah and it's time for bed
Speaker 1: and he doesn't want to go to bed, and he
Speaker 1: shoves Olivia backwards and she is gagged. She is like, Noah,
Speaker 1: never do that again. Get in your bed right now.
Speaker 1: She's like so shocked, she's lost her breath, like she's
Speaker 1: out of breath about like him shoving her. And he
Speaker 1: looks like he's like eight here, seven or eight. And
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to call him a little shit. You know,
Speaker 1: I obviously love baby Noah. I just don't love this
Speaker 1: iteration of Noah. And she tells him we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about this in the morning. And then even though
Speaker 1: they're in a fight, she kisses him good night and
Speaker 1: says I love you to him anyway, and then he
Speaker 1: doesn't say it back, and so she goes Noah, I
Speaker 1: love you and he says nothing, And that's dick Wolf baby.
Speaker 3: Crazy episode. It is weird end, Yeah, weird end.
Speaker 1: I think they're trying to sow the seeds for shit
Speaker 1: of like, is violence inherent in you, if you're if
Speaker 1: you come from violent people, and like because Johnny d
Speaker 1: is his.
Speaker 3: Dad and you know, like all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: But who knows. Also, no one needs some no one
Speaker 1: needs some discipline. He's acting like an asshole. Maybe he's
Speaker 1: pissed she didn't come to her his game where he
Speaker 1: almost hit.
Speaker 3: A home run. Sad episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm sure the true crimes are going to
Speaker 1: be really fun and happy, go lucky.
Speaker 3: So I'm glad you're here. All right, Well, I'll flow
Speaker 3: right in.
Speaker 2: So I feel like we all know about the Michigan
Speaker 2: case that is like famous, but that's you know, years
Speaker 2: after this episode.
Speaker 3: Which I couldn't believe. I looked it up. I couldn't
Speaker 3: believe it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of and a lot of the like
Speaker 2: court stuff happens like years and years after a lot
Speaker 2: of these shootings as well. So that case, it was
Speaker 2: Ethan Crumbly and he was fifteen at the time and
Speaker 2: it was Oxford High School November twenty twenty one. Four
Speaker 2: people were dead and seven injured, and he pled guilty
Speaker 2: to twenty four charges and was sentenced to life without
Speaker 2: the possibility of parole. And then his parents, James and Jennifer,
Speaker 2: were convicted of involuntary manslaughter and were the first parents
Speaker 2: in the country to be directly found responsible for the
Speaker 2: deaths caused by a child in a mass shooting.
Speaker 3: But I believe in that.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I hope that was like a case
Speaker 2: that can continue, like has influence. Well, hopefully school shooting stop,
Speaker 2: but I hope parents are held responsible.
Speaker 1: I feel very confident saying that because I know I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna have a gun in my house. You know,
Speaker 1: Like I feel very confident being like, yes, punish me
Speaker 1: if my kid gets a gun that I helped them
Speaker 1: get and they commit a school shooting that I facilitate anyway,
Speaker 1: I'm responsible. But I know that will never happen because
Speaker 1: I'm not a gun person. You know, like you're you
Speaker 1: if you are pissed about that, then it's like you
Speaker 1: know that there's a possibility your kids can get their
Speaker 1: hands on your guns.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and in twenty eighteen, so you know the Washington Post,
Speaker 2: we don't really go it was, but you could go
Speaker 2: on this article, so I do wonder, are free exciting
Speaker 2: when what's going on? But in it they write, since
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine, children have committed one hundred and forty
Speaker 2: five school shootings, and in one hundred and five cases,
Speaker 2: the weapons source was identified and eighty percent of those
Speaker 2: were taken from home or relatives or friends. Yeah so yeah,
Speaker 2: but then you know, since but that was in twenty eighteen,
Speaker 2: and only four adults have been convicted for failing to
Speaker 2: lock up guns used.
Speaker 3: Like according to the whatever study that they were using.
Speaker 3: So it's weird, like in this case, they don't even
Speaker 3: go after that fact. They don't even go.
Speaker 1: After the fact that they had access, they gave him
Speaker 1: access to the guns. They're really going after the fact
Speaker 1: that he created a toxic environment in the episode, you.
Speaker 2: Know, pushed him to the brink and write, Yeah, so
Speaker 2: I'm going to go over a few that could have
Speaker 2: inspired this, even though the cases, some of them happened
Speaker 2: after the episode. But anyways, so this is a Santa
Speaker 2: Fe High school shooting, but it's Santa Fe, Texas. A
Speaker 2: seventeen year old killed eight students and two teachers in
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen and left thirteen wounded. His name was Demetrius
Speaker 2: pet Pagortsis, and he confessed to the rampage and the Parkland,
Speaker 2: Florida shooting happened in the same month as this shooting,
Speaker 2: So it just fucked.
Speaker 1: That is so crazy because it's like the Santa fe
Speaker 1: one doesn't even like ring a bell to me, and
Speaker 1: it's probably because because I was like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: The jury found the parents not financially liable or guilty
Speaker 2: for their child's crime in twenty twenty four, so that's
Speaker 2: when the trial finally concluded. The verdict was reached after
Speaker 2: day of deliberations after a three week trial. But this
Speaker 2: is one of the first attempted to hold parents accountable
Speaker 2: in civil court for the actions of their childs in
Speaker 2: a school shooting.
Speaker 1: They felt, oh, it wasn't even criminal court, it was
Speaker 1: civil court.
Speaker 3: Huh. They just wow.
Speaker 2: They felt it was the fault of the child and
Speaker 2: with the company. That's so the jury thought it was
Speaker 2: the fault of the child and then the company that
Speaker 2: sold him ammunition in the shooting. So they did find
Speaker 2: this ammunition company guilty, but the jury did award hundreds
Speaker 2: and millions of dollars in damages to the plaintiffs.
Speaker 3: Lucky Gunner.
Speaker 2: The ammunition company sold him the ammunition at a time
Speaker 2: when he was legally barred from purchasing it, and they
Speaker 2: settled with the plaintiffs before the trial even began. So
Speaker 2: since this company settled, they don't have to pay a
Speaker 2: portion of the damages awarded by this jury. But the
Speaker 2: gunmen also can't pay, like they're poor. Yeah, so it
Speaker 2: really doesn't matter. I'm really confused about these juries that
Speaker 2: are like, well, this much, and it's like okay, well
Speaker 2: now what right? Right? But this trial went down several
Speaker 2: months after the Michigan couple was found guilty of that
Speaker 2: I just talked about with involuntary manslaughter. But in that
Speaker 2: case in Michigan and twenty twenty one, prosecutors were able
Speaker 2: to prove that the parents ignored warning signs and failed
Speaker 2: to lock up a handgun that was used by their.
Speaker 3: Son in the attack.
Speaker 2: So Antonius Pegwortsis and Rosemarie Cosmettos were not accused of
Speaker 2: the crime, but the trial focused on whether they had
Speaker 2: been negligent in the storage of more than a dozen
Speaker 2: firearms in their home. Two of which were used in
Speaker 2: the shooting, and had failed to notice their son was
Speaker 2: struggling or to take steps to help him. The gunman, Dimitri,
Speaker 2: was deemed mentally incompetent to stand trial in criminal court
Speaker 2: and remains in a state hospital for mental health treatment.
Speaker 2: Because there was no criminal trial, the people looked to
Speaker 2: this civil trial as their first chance for accountability. Like
Speaker 2: six years after the shooting, the parents refused any responsibility,
Speaker 2: even though Clint Maguire, the lead attorney for the plaintiffs,
Speaker 2: said in a closing argument that it was their son
Speaker 2: under their roof with their guns.
Speaker 3: New York Times.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like you go in this kind of case,
Speaker 1: like they go after civil even though that people don't
Speaker 1: have any money, just as like a deterrent maybe for
Speaker 1: other parents, Like right, be like like if you do
Speaker 1: have money and you're letting your kids get access to
Speaker 1: your guns and they do something with them, like you
Speaker 1: could lose five million dollars.
Speaker 3: Even those people don't have five million dollars. You know.
Speaker 2: It's more it seems like a count like you know,
Speaker 2: just the victims want something, you know. It's how Benson
Speaker 2: always says, like just standing up in court, right, but
Speaker 2: they do garnish wages. So that's the other thing, and
Speaker 2: I probably touched on this later, but one of the
Speaker 2: other cases was talking about how even if they don't
Speaker 2: have the money to pay this, they can't make money
Speaker 2: off of it.
Speaker 3: So if they decide to sell their story or.
Speaker 2: A book or anything like, the money will go to
Speaker 2: the victims, or if they somehow win the lottery or
Speaker 2: something like that. So to have the money could be taken,
Speaker 2: I guess yeah. But they both testify the parents they
Speaker 2: did not see changes in his mental state or they
Speaker 2: would have helped him. Expert witnesses for the defense testified
Speaker 2: though that he was dealing with schizophrenia, manics, oppression, and
Speaker 2: other mental illnesses. That he was having delusions and hallucinations,
Speaker 2: which accluded that the CIA wanted him to be an assassin.
Speaker 2: Yet they said that he kept his delusions a secret
Speaker 2: and they had no idea. But you know, the parents
Speaker 2: did not pull the trigger or give him the gun.
Speaker 2: But it was yeah, so it was not found to
Speaker 2: be on them. I'm glad the ammunition company, I guess settled.
Speaker 2: Maybe it would have been better not to settle and
Speaker 2: try him try them, because I bet that.
Speaker 3: Company could have afforded all that money. I don't know, Okay.
Speaker 2: So the next one is the Marysville Pilchuk High School shooting.
Speaker 2: It's a town north of Seattle in Washington State. The
Speaker 2: shooter's name is Jalen Freiberg. He was fifteen. He took
Speaker 2: his father's handgun to school in his backpack and opened
Speaker 2: fire on a group of classmates that he texted to
Speaker 2: meet him.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. So he shot the.
Speaker 2: Five classmates, four fatally, and then turned the gun on himself.
Speaker 2: Two of the victims were his cousins, Nate Hatch and
Speaker 2: Andrew Freiberg. And you know, he was not a loner.
Speaker 2: He was a popular football player. He was elected homecoming
Speaker 2: prince his freshman year. And it was not random people,
Speaker 2: It was not enemies. He texted and killed his friends
Speaker 2: and family.
Speaker 3: Do they know why?
Speaker 2: A former teacher, Rick Iverson is quoted in The New
Speaker 2: York Times saying this was an outgoing person that everyone
Speaker 2: in the school loved. He was from a prominent family
Speaker 2: on the Tululip Indian Reservation and had a good relationship
Speaker 2: with his parents and brother, according to another tribal member,
Speaker 2: But a few days before the shooting, his friend Josh
Speaker 2: said that his demeanor did change and he wasn't doing
Speaker 2: work and just had his headphones in and refused to
Speaker 2: talk about it. And then when Josh asked him what's wrong,
Speaker 2: he responded, it doesn't concern you. And that was to
Speaker 2: the Times. A federal jury in Seattle convicted Raymond Freiberg
Speaker 2: of illegally owning six firearms, including the Barretta that his
Speaker 2: fourteen year old son used to kill the classmates and himself.
Speaker 2: The jury deliberated for one day before reaching its verdict.
Speaker 2: Freiberg was not charged in the shooting, but he was
Speaker 2: sentenced to two years in prison for the illegal owning
Speaker 2: so Illegally owning the guns got him prison time, but
Speaker 2: not letting his fourteen year old child get to them,
Speaker 2: yeah fuck because also the data had a prior restraining
Speaker 2: order against him and so should have been prohibited from
Speaker 2: buying the gun, but the order was never entered into
Speaker 2: the federal database, and so he should not have been
Speaker 2: buying these guns. So when he filled out the forms
Speaker 2: for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, he
Speaker 2: stated he had not been the subject of any court
Speaker 2: order restraining him from harassed like the harassing, stocking, and
Speaker 2: threatening of an intimate partner. So he didn't fill it
Speaker 2: out correctly. So like, so he knew it, he knew
Speaker 2: he had these restraining orders, and so like he filled
Speaker 2: out the paperwork wrong. But I feel like the stores
Speaker 2: should have been able to catch that, Like what the fuck?
Speaker 2: But the dad got the gun January twenty thirteen, and
Speaker 2: then the gun was used Oxtober twenty fourth, twenty fourteen
Speaker 2: in the shooting. The case was investigated by the FBI
Speaker 2: and the Tululab Tribal Police Department. It was prosecuted by
Speaker 2: assistant Uist Attorneys.
Speaker 3: So that's that case.
Speaker 1: I wonder what happened to that kid, Like I wonder
Speaker 1: what made him like a flip switch. I mean, he
Speaker 1: might have been having like a mental health event or something,
Speaker 1: but I wonder if it was something like, yeah, he
Speaker 1: was assaulted or he was a victim in some kind
Speaker 1: of way like in the episode.
Speaker 3: Because that's to.
Speaker 1: Go from like a happy, go lucky kid that everybody
Speaker 1: in the school thinks is great to killing your friends
Speaker 1: in like a premeditated attack.
Speaker 3: It's pretty wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, okay, Well onto the next. So Marshall County
Speaker 2: High School shooting. This happened in Kentucky, January twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2: Gabe Parker, fifteen, open fired in an open area of
Speaker 2: the school. It was like a large hallway by the cafeteria.
Speaker 2: Because that's something I read about too, where a lot
Speaker 2: of these drills and protections in safety rely on the
Speaker 2: kids being inside the classroom, and so like if it's
Speaker 2: you know, free periods or launch or whatever, that's not
Speaker 2: really a way to keep people safe. So two people
Speaker 2: were killed and multiple students were injured. He killed Ryan
Speaker 2: Cope and Bailey Holt, who were both fifteen years old,
Speaker 2: and he used his stepfather's pistol. A civil lawsuit was filed.
Speaker 2: In twenty nineteen, thirty six point seven million dollars was
Speaker 2: awarded to the four victims of the Marshall County High
Speaker 2: School shooting. Sheila high Stand, the legal rep for the victims,
Speaker 2: doesn't think any of them will ever see the money
Speaker 2: since the family does not have the cash. But like
Speaker 2: I said, it's to stop the family from ever making
Speaker 2: money off of it, or if any if they do
Speaker 2: get any money, that the plaintiffs and must be compensated.
Speaker 2: The judgment was against the shooter, Gabe Parker, his mother,
Speaker 2: Mary Migner, and his stepfather, Justin Minyard. They also brought
Speaker 2: the lawsuit against the school district and the superintendent, Trent Lovett,
Speaker 2: who was subsequently granted qualified immunity, which seems kind of wild.
Speaker 3: He was okay.
Speaker 2: So the shooter was sentenced to life in prison after
Speaker 2: being charged in as an adult, and he was given
Speaker 2: two life sentences plus seventy years, but also eligible for
Speaker 2: parole in twenty which doesn't make sense to me. I
Speaker 2: think if you have more than one life sentence, you
Speaker 2: shouldn't be able to get Yeah. The last one is Parkland, Florida.
Speaker 2: It's the Stoneman Douglas High School shooting. And you know,
Speaker 2: I would say it's probably like a most well known
Speaker 2: you know what I Meanfortunately, it's like Columbine, Sandy Hook.
Speaker 3: Parkland.
Speaker 2: Nicholas Cruz murdered seventeen people on Valentine's Day and wounded
Speaker 2: and traumatized nearly three dozen others. It was twenty eighteen,
Speaker 2: and he opened fire and just fucking murdered people. And
Speaker 2: then in February twenty twenty, parents of one of the
Speaker 2: student victims filed a lawsuit against the US government. Andrew
Speaker 2: Pollack lost his daughter, Meadow Pollock in the mass shooting.
Speaker 2: He said that the FBI was tipped off and that
Speaker 2: the Sheriff's department knew about the red flags running the
Speaker 2: gunman but did not follow up. They had transcript excerpts
Speaker 2: from the FBI tip line. A woman close to the
Speaker 2: shooter called and said that on Instagram he posted photos
Speaker 2: with his weapons and wrote how he wanted to kill somebody.
Speaker 2: Then there was there was also a second tip that
Speaker 2: was five months before the shooting, So five months before
Speaker 2: the shooting. In September twenty seventeen, a bail bondsman in
Speaker 2: Mississippi reported that someone commenting on the internet with a
Speaker 2: username Nicholas Cruz left a disturbing message on his YouTube
Speaker 2: channel and that said I'm going to be a professional
Speaker 2: school shooter. And that was to the time, So that
Speaker 2: was five months before. So you have citizens that are
Speaker 2: fucking doing their due diligence months and like two FBI
Speaker 2: guys came to talk to him and they they thought
Speaker 2: nothing important of it and closed the inquiry. And the
Speaker 2: woman knew him personally and was like, I think this
Speaker 2: person's going to kill people, and they just didn't do
Speaker 2: anything about it. The families of the Parkland shooting victims
Speaker 2: were awarded one hundred and twenty seven point five million
Speaker 2: dollars by the Justice Department, but says the settlement does
Speaker 2: not amount to an admission or fault by the US government,
Speaker 2: so they're not taking any accountability or fault or anything
Speaker 2: like that. But they did settle with this money. Sixteen
Speaker 2: out of the seventeen families were a part of the case.
Speaker 2: The settlement also resolves forty cases connected to the shooting. Basically,
Speaker 2: Jennifer and Fred Gutenberg's fourteen year old daughter, Jamie was
Speaker 2: murdered in the shooting and they're like, if the FBI
Speaker 2: did their job, that their daughter would be alive. So
Speaker 2: they brought this suit on and then thirty nine families
Speaker 2: joined them and argue that the shooting was completely preventable.
Speaker 2: So yeah, close to one hundred and thirty million dollars
Speaker 2: will be given out to forty six survivors and families
Speaker 2: of this twenty eighteen massacre, and the school district also
Speaker 2: paid out twenty five million dollars to the shooting victims
Speaker 2: as well in a settlement in twenty twenty one. The
Speaker 2: school district's payout will be split between families of fourteen
Speaker 2: students and three faculty and sixteen of the seventeen who
Speaker 2: are injured and nineteen people who had severe trauma resulting
Speaker 2: from the shooting.
Speaker 1: And David Hog, who went to that school, is now
Speaker 1: like a huge gun control advocate and he is running
Speaker 1: for office. I'm getting a lot of fundraising notes from
Speaker 1: David Hogg.
Speaker 2: Yeah, these kids are all growing up or he's he's
Speaker 2: the vice chair of the DNC.
Speaker 3: Whoa and he's twenty five. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then Kruz pled guilty October twenty and twenty to
Speaker 2: seventeen counts a first degree murder, and then November twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two he was sentenced to life in prison without
Speaker 2: the possibility of parole.
Speaker 3: Damn.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I guess, you know, we can't really know
Speaker 2: exactly what inspired this, but I just kind of focused
Speaker 2: on the cases where they were trying to find other
Speaker 2: people responsible, who were you know, and what what happens there.
Speaker 2: But I think that Michigan case was huge, and even
Speaker 2: and that other dad for having illegal guns. But like,
Speaker 2: these parents need to be held accountable.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And also the Feds are fucking checking up
Speaker 1: on tips too, Like ough a lot of these guys
Speaker 1: are on the internet saying the shit they're gonna do.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, a lot of people are
Speaker 1: on the internet talking ship that they're never going to do.
Speaker 1: And it's hard to check out every fucking lead. I
Speaker 1: get that, you know, I don't know what the answer.
Speaker 2: Is, but but that's their Like that's the whole point, Like,
Speaker 2: I know, yeah, you guys are you know.
Speaker 1: Okay, but this is obviously sad subject matter. But our
Speaker 1: guest coming up is fantastic, So don't go anywhere really exciting.
Speaker 3: Your palette is about to be very cleansed.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, our guest today, we're so excited. He is
Speaker 1: an actor that you might know from shows like Fringe
Speaker 1: or strike Back, but you know him best as the
Speaker 1: tortured threesome having eighty A Peterstone. Please enjoy our delightful
Speaker 1: conversation with Philip Winchester.
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, you.
Speaker 2: We do get extra excited when it's a cast member.
Speaker 2: There's so much to talk about. It's like, so this
Speaker 2: happens to all the characters that when they come to SVU,
Speaker 2: they're shocked by the you know, the horrific nature of
Speaker 2: the crimes and that's kind of a trope. How is
Speaker 2: it as an actor going from regular like Chicago crimes
Speaker 2: to sex crimes? Yeah, well, you like, what the fuck
Speaker 2: these storylines are nuts? When you were reading the script, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 7: You'd get like five or six episodes in and then
Speaker 7: you got kind of numb to it, right, like, oh, look,
Speaker 7: it's another horrific story about something that's happened to a
Speaker 7: kid or this poor woman who's been roofied, and it
Speaker 7: was just brutal. And then I'd look across at the
Speaker 7: writers and go, you guys are can I swear on this?
Speaker 6: Got?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 6: I'd be like, you guys are really fucked up.
Speaker 3: Right, yes, well the fuck up part is there. They're
Speaker 3: so they're comb in the news for this, so that's
Speaker 3: just crazy.
Speaker 6: Yeah, ripped from the headlines.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 6: But when you.
Speaker 2: Got to work with a few kids in your tenure.
Speaker 2: We actually had the girl from Zero Tolerance. I don't
Speaker 2: know if you remember her. It was like the border episode.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, she was great.
Speaker 3: She was our youngest guest ever.
Speaker 6: Yeah that's fantastic.
Speaker 7: Oh that's really cool. Yeah she was she was great.
Speaker 7: And then this one is that this one was.
Speaker 2: Down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is the beginning of season twenty. I mean,
Speaker 1: you come in on season nineteen and one of the bleakest.
Speaker 6: Episodes of all that's right, Yeah, maybe our Country.
Speaker 2: Is the bleakest filking episode.
Speaker 1: And then you pop in then and then we got
Speaker 1: you all.
Speaker 3: But Benson.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and it's like, we gotta we got to earn
Speaker 7: that Druss, We gotta get that relationship back on the table.
Speaker 6: It comes in with this episode, which just brutal.
Speaker 2: I feel you go back and forth with her your
Speaker 2: whole time there, like you guys, you guys fight a.
Speaker 6: Lot, We do fight a lot.
Speaker 7: I think there's some there's some political opinions in there
Speaker 7: and some political beliefs there. I mean, there were some
Speaker 7: brutal scenes. There was just some brutal stuff in the courtroom.
Speaker 7: I remember that happened and and just how how we
Speaker 7: all felt about it, and none of that was mimicking
Speaker 7: real life, but just the way things went down with
Speaker 7: some of the courtroom scenes and the cross examinations were like, man,
Speaker 7: this is you know, Stone had this. What I appreciated
Speaker 7: about playing him was his brokenness came through his desire
Speaker 7: to be right. And so you know, characters are boring
Speaker 7: if they're you know, they're good at everything, and like, ah,
Speaker 7: we're cookie cutter and they're superheroes and this and that.
Speaker 7: But Stone definitely had that. The danger in playing him
Speaker 7: was that he was kind of good at a lot
Speaker 7: of things. But then his oc dnus and his desire
Speaker 7: to win made him interesting because he would use the
Speaker 7: law to bend the rules as much as he could,
Speaker 7: and I think that that rubbed Bence in the wrong way.
Speaker 7: There was also this learning curve that had to happen
Speaker 7: with Stone where he was going from the AD eight.
Speaker 7: You know, he was Cook County Assistant District Attorney and
Speaker 7: it was a lot of murder and things like that,
Speaker 7: and then it was sex crimes.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and so towing.
Speaker 7: The line and learning that and being you know, basically
Speaker 7: asking questions that I think he knew the answer to.
Speaker 7: But he was checking in with Benson all the time
Speaker 7: and being like, I'm gonna do this, what do you
Speaker 7: feel about that?
Speaker 6: And it was good.
Speaker 7: But yeah, I loved the tension between Benson and Stone.
Speaker 7: I thought it was I thought it was it made
Speaker 7: for good TV.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because you were really like black and white,
Speaker 2: we have to do this and still I want to
Speaker 2: break the rules and then we.
Speaker 3: Could really do whatever I want. Yeah, I was like,
Speaker 3: it's both are we not winning?
Speaker 6: Oh? I think there's some way to get around that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, A lot of contradictions with your character because also
Speaker 2: like Stern, I would say, but then very flirty. I
Speaker 2: think you're one of the bigger kind of slutty characters.
Speaker 6: So was it this episode with.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this would be a rare one description.
Speaker 7: We were like, whoa shit, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you were really like flirty and fun, but then
Speaker 2: also yeah, very stern.
Speaker 1: A lot of Yeah, well I think you definitely, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you strike me as somebody who's really trying to impress Dad.
Speaker 1: You know, we had a couple of different characters like
Speaker 1: that on SVU.
Speaker 2: But your first episode you get to work with Sam
Speaker 2: Waterson like this so amazing. How was that You got
Speaker 2: a lot You also got to like be in the
Speaker 2: courtroom by yourself and have a moment courtroom steps you're
Speaker 2: in court with the barb was really like a very
Speaker 2: full Yeah.
Speaker 6: Alec Schappel, who was.
Speaker 7: Our main director that year, and he was our you know,
Speaker 7: he was our director writer. He worked really closely with
Speaker 7: Michael Chranucin. He just he understood the show. He understood
Speaker 7: what we were trying to do with Stone and he yeah,
Speaker 7: he was. It was such a gift, you know, I look,
Speaker 7: it's funny. As an actor, I was little. Did I
Speaker 7: know this was sort of the end of all the
Speaker 7: energy and time that I would spend on network TV.
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 7: I was on Cinemax for four years, and then I
Speaker 7: went to NBC for a year, and then it was
Speaker 7: another show. It was Justice for a year, and then
Speaker 7: it was So it was kind of like this.
Speaker 6: Eight year run.
Speaker 7: And I wasn't complacent about it, but you're just like,
Speaker 7: this is what I do. Now, I'm doing network TV.
Speaker 7: I'm going to do this. And so some of the
Speaker 7: not the work, but some of the episodes they blend together.
Speaker 7: You do so many of them, I mean, and the
Speaker 7: characters crossover and the the cases crossover, and so you
Speaker 7: have these moments where you go, wait, this is really
Speaker 7: important and you can and special and Sam Waterston was
Speaker 7: one of them.
Speaker 6: We get there.
Speaker 7: The first day of shooting with Sam was this crazy
Speaker 7: snowstorm and most of New York shut down, but not
Speaker 7: a Dick Wolf production, and damn it, everybody showed up
Speaker 7: to work. It was amazing and it was this howling
Speaker 7: blizzard and we were shooting in a church because it
Speaker 7: was the funeral scene, right, And we get in there
Speaker 7: and Sam and I were talking about the characters and
Speaker 7: hanging out, and he's just he's such a pro and
Speaker 7: he's such a legend.
Speaker 6: Have you guys talked to him?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 7: Yeah, he you know, he's one of those actors. He's
Speaker 7: one of those guys. He's he puts so much thought
Speaker 7: into it, and he's so easy. I remember I said
Speaker 7: this about acting, and I love this. Ice is a prophet, right,
Speaker 7: He's just like he'll say things and you're like, wait
Speaker 7: a second, I actually have a thing in my phone
Speaker 7: called iced tea knowledge.
Speaker 2: Yes, and ice cold facts.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 7: He would drop these pearls right, and you'd be like
Speaker 7: one second here, just like but but Sam, Sam made
Speaker 7: it look so easy. And that's because he does so
Speaker 7: much work up to it, and he's done it so
Speaker 7: often that it's just it's just butter.
Speaker 6: Right, it's so easy.
Speaker 7: But it's because he's good, and it's because he puts
Speaker 7: the work in.
Speaker 3: I guess. I mean, will you give us an ice
Speaker 3: cold fact?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Any of your ice knowledge?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Any that you like, remember that's.
Speaker 6: My favorite ice cold fact. Okay, ready, this is my
Speaker 6: favorite ice cold fact.
Speaker 7: We're in in the courtroom Run one day and ice
Speaker 7: Tea goes. He goes, hey, Philip, you want to hear
Speaker 7: something about the industry. And I was like yeah, He's like,
Speaker 7: you want to hear the this is the career of
Speaker 7: an actor?
Speaker 6: You ready? I was like yeah, let's go.
Speaker 7: But he's like, there's four stages to an actor. Who
Speaker 7: is Philip Winchester? Right, get me Philip Winchester. Get me
Speaker 7: a younger Philip Winchester.
Speaker 6: Who the fuck is Philip Winchester?
Speaker 7: That is that's the career, that's the career path, except
Speaker 7: that's icy.
Speaker 6: Less you. He's so good, right, we were walking in
Speaker 6: the hallway.
Speaker 7: What did he dropped one in the hallway one day,
Speaker 7: just along the lines of like walking along, he's like, yeah,
Speaker 7: if you don't have a job, you probably shouldn't sleep
Speaker 7: in And it was just like one of those like
Speaker 7: like you gotta put that in, put it in, put
Speaker 7: it in.
Speaker 3: Wow, that really hit me. You have a job, don't sleep.
Speaker 6: Probably should Oh, he's just he's amazing. What a guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, were you getting recognized while living in New York?
Speaker 3: And playing Stone. Did you have any run ins?
Speaker 6: Yeah, definitely. Uh.
Speaker 7: Probably the most recognition happened in New York while I
Speaker 7: was doing SVU. Yeah, you know, I mean and and
Speaker 7: now It's funny. My wife and I joke if we're
Speaker 7: out because there's always kind of peaks and valleys and
Speaker 7: what you do will be out and someone will say
Speaker 7: something like or you'll get like the triple take, and
Speaker 7: we're like, there must be a rerun on right now.
Speaker 6: Yeah, because.
Speaker 7: USA is doing a marathon and Peterstone's on, because then
Speaker 7: you'll get the triple takes. But yeah, definitely in New
Speaker 7: York there was a lot of that, which is you know,
Speaker 7: which was which was kind of fun. Yeah, not not
Speaker 7: not the reason to do it, but it was all
Speaker 7: and airports. I was There's two types of fans that
Speaker 7: I get. I get the Strike Back fans and I
Speaker 7: get the SVU fans, And usually I can tell before
Speaker 7: they say something strike Back. Strike Back was a big
Speaker 7: action series, so it's usually like military guys or the
Speaker 7: beards and the tats come up and I'm like, this
Speaker 7: isn't going to be about not shooting the rabbit and
Speaker 7: this is this is going to be about something else.
Speaker 3: Guys always shoot the rabbit.
Speaker 6: I'm sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Where did this shoot? So we shot it?
Speaker 6: That was South Africa.
Speaker 7: We were in joe Burg, Cape Town, and then Thailand
Speaker 7: and then boot and.
Speaker 6: It was great.
Speaker 3: Whoa, that's so cool.
Speaker 7: That was my My first meeting with Dick Wolf was
Speaker 7: I was sort of in this. I'd been doing this
Speaker 7: action stuff for so long that you know, I get
Speaker 7: I get carved up to his place in Monacito. I
Speaker 7: mean it was it was like something out of the Godfather.
Speaker 7: Was just this beautiful house.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 7: I get ushered into his office, which is like twenty
Speaker 7: foot ceilings and leather bound scripts of all the episodes
Speaker 7: of TV that he's made, like really classy, really cool.
Speaker 7: And he's got a marble desk with a lamp, four
Speaker 7: scripts on it and a phone.
Speaker 6: That's it.
Speaker 7: And there's Dick Wolf behind the desk, and I am
Speaker 7: so nervous, probably slightly hungover, and and I was like,
Speaker 7: oh shit, like this is real, Like this what what
Speaker 7: happens in this room could make or break the rest
Speaker 7: of your career, right, And he's like, so, Bob Greenblatt
Speaker 7: over at NBC said, you know, the player over, I've
Speaker 7: got an idea for a show. He says, you're the guy,
Speaker 7: and I was like, look, I really appreciate that, but
Speaker 7: I jump out of helicopters and punch people in the face.
Speaker 7: That's that's what I've been doing for like the last
Speaker 7: six years. And he's like, yeah, I don't need you
Speaker 7: to do that, but if you could do it with
Speaker 7: your eyes, that'd be great.
Speaker 2: Ha ha ha.
Speaker 7: And I was like, any like, totally caught me off guard, right,
Speaker 7: And I was like, oh, okay, So he kind of
Speaker 7: thought that was a joke too, that's cool. And I
Speaker 7: was like, well, I mean, can I read a script?
Speaker 7: He's like, I don't have one yet, but it'll be good.
Speaker 7: And I was like, you don't push this too far further,
Speaker 7: you know, too much further now, And I go okay.
Speaker 7: He goes, I tell you what, if you don't like it,
Speaker 7: you can quit, and if you suck, I'll fire you.
Speaker 6: And I went, I don't think there's a better deal
Speaker 6: in Hollywood.
Speaker 3: Okay. Incredible. We've actually never gotten any insight on Dick Wolf.
Speaker 3: I don't think from anyone.
Speaker 2: That's yeah, we don't get a lot of Dick Wolf
Speaker 2: talk because we talked to a lot of guest stars,
Speaker 2: you know, so they didn't really have much.
Speaker 6: Everything you think he would be. He's incredible.
Speaker 2: We saw him from because we went to Iced Tea's
Speaker 2: star on the Walk of Fame.
Speaker 6: We are cool.
Speaker 2: Well, we were in the pen with the regular people
Speaker 2: and I was like, Kara, you better get us into
Speaker 2: the pressed.
Speaker 3: And got us in the press like it was a job.
Speaker 2: So we had an amazing view. We have like a
Speaker 2: photo of like baby Chanel.
Speaker 3: Like jumping into arms. We really were in the thing
Speaker 3: of it.
Speaker 2: But that was the That was I think the only
Speaker 2: time I saw Dick Wolf but a marble desk I'm
Speaker 2: obsessed with.
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, he is the real deal.
Speaker 7: Staff of scripts just like that's you know, just like
Speaker 7: this man who has given his life to television.
Speaker 2: But I bet more people were desperate than you or
Speaker 2: I wonder if people or a lot of people are
Speaker 2: like I.
Speaker 3: Don't know, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 7: I really appreciated his sort of like, look, I'm.
Speaker 6: What do you want, like like the script will be good?
Speaker 7: And he kind of he kind of doubled down on that,
Speaker 7: not with me personally, but he walked onto set on Justice,
Speaker 7: which in hindsight's a little sad because the show didn't
Speaker 7: go that far.
Speaker 6: But I don't think it was our fault. You know.
Speaker 7: He's like he walked in right down the middle of
Speaker 7: where the gallery sits and then walked up to the
Speaker 7: prosecuting table and he's walked in. He's like, all right, everybody,
Speaker 7: the sets are built, the scripts are good, cameras are here.
Speaker 6: Don't fuck it up.
Speaker 7: Yeah, And that was it was like, okay, and you
Speaker 7: know what, he's not wrong.
Speaker 6: Don't fuck it up.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I was like, let's go right, let's push the button.
Speaker 3: Fuck it up. Who knew our two pass? Yeah, don't
Speaker 3: fuck it up? Wait? Did you meet Snoop Talk?
Speaker 6: I wasn't on the No.
Speaker 3: I wasn't in that episode.
Speaker 7: Everyone asked that, like of all the guest roles, and
Speaker 7: that was a that was a t of course.
Speaker 6: That was a nice thing.
Speaker 7: I think they said we would love Snoop Dogg, and
Speaker 7: I think I said, I'll call him.
Speaker 6: I mean, how cool is that? Right?
Speaker 1: I remember like when your character was on, when I
Speaker 1: was watching the show, when you were first on like
Speaker 1: seven or eight years ago, I was like, Oh, this
Speaker 1: is what's bringing me into this guy is he's got
Speaker 1: this like family thing going on, you know, like your
Speaker 1: relationship with your dad, but also the sister thing, that's right,
Speaker 1: which honestly kicks off your slutty phase.
Speaker 3: I feel.
Speaker 6: Stones slutty phase.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Stone goes real slutty after his sister is killed
Speaker 1: by a.
Speaker 2: Partelartle, the cartel that's rights.
Speaker 6: Some of it was.
Speaker 7: It was just brutal, right, there was we read that
Speaker 7: script and we were like wa, whoa. And then the
Speaker 7: hardest part about missing the action stuff was then doing
Speaker 7: those episodes. Remember like that there was that episode, There
Speaker 7: was the episode in the bar where I was accused
Speaker 7: of Oh yeah, I was accused of raping someone in
Speaker 7: college and it wasn't true. And the guy's the gal's
Speaker 7: husband comes to the bar and it's like there was
Speaker 7: so much yeah, amazing right, amazing actor. And there was
Speaker 7: years and years of like someone put a gun in
Speaker 7: you and you'd be like take it away.
Speaker 6: And this was like I.
Speaker 7: Remember, had so many so many family members calling and
Speaker 7: so many like fans being like this is where Stonebridge
Speaker 7: kicks his ass. Right, He's not stone Bridge, He's Peterstone.
Speaker 7: But yeah, the sister stuff really kicked off. It really
Speaker 7: broke down Stone, you know, it was that was the
Speaker 7: beginning of the end of Stone right, and going into
Speaker 7: those last episodes kind of really you know it was
Speaker 7: it was just, you know, I had a two year
Speaker 7: contract on SVU. We didn't know if it was going
Speaker 7: to get renegotiated or not, but we wanted it to
Speaker 7: go out as strong as we could. And I remember
Speaker 7: the rewrites on the last episode were we ended up
Speaker 7: in a place where Stone really bent the rules for
Speaker 7: Benson right, and I think that that.
Speaker 3: Was a really great style.
Speaker 7: Yeah, totally like the he was working deals here making
Speaker 7: it happen, and it was, but it was totally breaking
Speaker 7: the law, which is not Stone.
Speaker 6: He would like he can bend the rules, but he
Speaker 6: wouldn't break them.
Speaker 7: And the first script that came out was he he
Speaker 7: had done similar things, but instead of having that discussion
Speaker 7: right outside the front of the courthouse, he got shot
Speaker 7: on the front steps of the courthouse. And we read
Speaker 7: it in the table read and we were like, oh snap.
Speaker 7: And there was definitely a bit of like fuck, you know,
Speaker 7: that's I can't ever do Peter Stone again.
Speaker 6: But what great television, right. I was like, man, let's
Speaker 6: let's go.
Speaker 7: And I remember Mariska came out in the hallway afterwards,
Speaker 7: and she was like, Philip, you can't die.
Speaker 6: And I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 7: I think as much as I would love to keep
Speaker 7: playing this character or have the opportunity down the road
Speaker 7: that is wild TV, especially for network TV, I was like,
Speaker 7: I think we could. It would be amazing if we
Speaker 7: could pull it off. And it sat with her for
Speaker 7: a while, and it sat with me for a while,
Speaker 7: and we went back to Michael Chernucin. Obviously didn't end
Speaker 7: up happening, and I think, and I'm now, you know,
Speaker 7: six years later, I'm really grateful because I think there's
Speaker 7: there's some opportunities maybe somewhere along the road to get
Speaker 7: some Peter Stone back in there, or him to do
Speaker 7: his own thing, you know. But that was definitely an option,
Speaker 7: And I thought, man, that would there's that. There's that
Speaker 7: as an artist, an artist, as an actor, You're like,
Speaker 7: I really like this character, but is the payoff good
Speaker 7: enough to literally put a bullet in them?
Speaker 6: So but I think we ended in a good place.
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this, because we haven't talked
Speaker 1: to We've talked to a lot of cast members, but
Speaker 1: some of them like kind of came on in the
Speaker 1: earlier years and like you came on season nineteen twenty
Speaker 1: to be We talked to so many guest stars and
Speaker 1: they always say, oh, it's a well oiled machine. They
Speaker 1: welcome us in and this and that. But you're coming
Speaker 1: in not just to be there for a week or two.
Speaker 1: You're going to be there for like the long haul.
Speaker 1: Did you find like the same kind of welcoming getting
Speaker 1: in with like the gang of like Marishka Scanavino, Roll
Speaker 1: you know now I'm Kelley, like Iced Tea. Were they
Speaker 1: just like, oh, welcome, You're one of the regular guys
Speaker 1: now or did you have to kind of earn it
Speaker 1: a little bit?
Speaker 6: I think probably a little bit of both.
Speaker 7: I think you have to, like anything, when you've been
Speaker 7: around that long, you really wanted like it's performance, right,
Speaker 7: You're like, can you hang with us? And I think
Speaker 7: there was a little bit of proving ourselves in the
Speaker 7: first few episodes. And also I was coming over with
Speaker 7: a showrunner that I had worked with for a year
Speaker 7: and oh, which is nice with Michael Trannucin, right, And
Speaker 7: so there was a little bit of like who are
Speaker 7: these guys? You know a little bit who are these
Speaker 7: two guys? And then right away they could see that
Speaker 7: Nutce is great and hopefully you know, I just jumped
Speaker 7: in and did my stuff. But it wasn't anything too
Speaker 7: you know, they're not bullying you by any means, but
Speaker 7: there's definitely like, hey, can you guys hang and you know,
Speaker 7: and it's important because the show's hinged on that, right.
Speaker 7: But then they were just so welcoming and it was
Speaker 7: all you know, it was very much invited to all
Speaker 7: the events and parties and things like that and dinners
Speaker 7: at people's houses and sometimes that's what it was. It
Speaker 7: was a little difficult to be involved in as much
Speaker 7: stuff as of and that side of things because I
Speaker 7: had a young daughter at home in Montana.
Speaker 6: If she wasn't in New York, I was on a plane.
Speaker 6: Like this. It was really it was a real gift.
Speaker 7: Because on Justice it was you know, working ninety hours
Speaker 7: a week and not you know, sleeping, eating with your
Speaker 7: script in your hand. And then I had Peterstone on
Speaker 7: SVU and so I had time and if I wasn't
Speaker 7: in New York, I was on a If I wasn't shooting,
Speaker 7: I was getting on a plane and going to see
Speaker 7: my daughter and my wife. Even if it was overnight.
Speaker 7: I'd land in the afternoon in Montana, kiss my family,
Speaker 7: hang out, and get on a flight the early next
Speaker 7: morning and comeback. And we always had to have a
Speaker 7: day buffer, especially in the winter because weather in New
Speaker 7: York and weather in Montana's just crazy.
Speaker 3: Well are their direct flights.
Speaker 6: There was a United flight, There's a United flight in
Speaker 6: the winter.
Speaker 7: Because of ski season. But then as soon as spring
Speaker 7: comes around in mud seasons here, I had to go
Speaker 7: through Chicago or Salt Lake City or something like that,
Speaker 7: and that makes it a whole day of traveling, which
Speaker 7: look champagne problems, right, But I was spent doing a
Speaker 7: lot of sky time for sure.
Speaker 2: And then how was the last day? Was there a party?
Speaker 2: Was there a wrap or their gifts?
Speaker 7: Was last day? Gosh, there's so much emotion wrapped up
Speaker 7: in it. I remember being pretty cut up about it.
Speaker 7: You know it's coming. I actually found out I wasn't
Speaker 7: going to be going back probably two or three episodes
Speaker 7: before the end, right, So you're kind of doing these
Speaker 7: episodes not with a chip on your shoulder, but a
Speaker 7: little bit like darn it, like could I have done
Speaker 7: something different?
Speaker 6: Is it my fault?
Speaker 7: And sometimes it's just like your contract didn't get reapped
Speaker 7: right or what or that that's the end of that
Speaker 7: character for that reason. And yeah, there was lovely you know,
Speaker 7: Marisca said some lovely things in front of the crew,
Speaker 7: and I was able to talk to the crew and
Speaker 7: say thanks for everything, and you know, I think we
Speaker 7: I don't know what.
Speaker 6: My last scene was.
Speaker 7: I think it was in the courtroom and I think
Speaker 7: actually it was in the courtroom. And so that was
Speaker 7: a nice way to wrap it up because it felt
Speaker 7: like it had gone full circle from Chicago Justice all
Speaker 7: the way back to all the way back to Law
Speaker 7: and Order SPU and then and because the courtroom is big,
Speaker 7: we had extras in there, we had the whole crew
Speaker 7: in there, and we were able to say thank you
Speaker 7: and goodbye.
Speaker 6: And it's always a weird thing.
Speaker 7: You know, that's your family, for lack of a better term,
Speaker 7: I mean, you're with them so many hours a day,
Speaker 7: so many days a week, that all of a sudden,
Speaker 7: you're it's always it's always for me, it's like, you know,
Speaker 7: being a guy. It's like a month later, you know,
Speaker 7: and I'm sitting in my office and I'm like.
Speaker 3: I'm sad.
Speaker 6: Wait a second, I really love that show. But yeah,
Speaker 6: just such a gift and wonderful, wonderful people.
Speaker 3: Really, do you want to talk about Ransom Canyon?
Speaker 6: Sure? Sure, yeah? You are you guys up to date
Speaker 6: on Ransom Can.
Speaker 7: How could you be when there's how many thousands of
Speaker 7: episodes of SVU to work?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, and we have to see them all
Speaker 1: seventeen times or.
Speaker 6: We won't have to see them all. Uh yeah, Ransom.
Speaker 7: Look, we shot Rant Canyon down in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Speaker 7: It's a adaptation of a of several novels. There's a
Speaker 7: whole bunch of them. It's good fun. It's sort of
Speaker 7: a I guess you, I would call it a Yellowstone
Speaker 7: meets Friday Night Lights. It's lovely so that we got
Speaker 7: to make a Callrie Josh Dumel. It's it's doing great.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 7: Last time I checked, it was number one or number
Speaker 7: two on Netflix. Hell yeah, in the in the United States,
Speaker 7: and I think number one or number two globally too,
Speaker 7: which is great. It hit a nerve, which is fantastic.
Speaker 7: My wife and I sat down over the weekend and
Speaker 7: watched it and it.
Speaker 3: Was really funny. It was like yellow more romance a.
Speaker 7: Lot more romance. Okay, yeah, very much like the turmoil
Speaker 7: of like the the lovers who own ranches trying to
Speaker 7: fight over the one gal who owns a lavender farm.
Speaker 7: And then I play I play the Sheriff of Ransom
Speaker 7: Canyon and my daughter's in love with the bad boy
Speaker 7: and I don't like that, and they're trying to figure
Speaker 7: that out. And then there's you know, a tornado comes
Speaker 7: through town.
Speaker 6: It's very it's just it's popcorn, but it's good popcorn. Right,
Speaker 6: It's like it's it's soapy, but great, Sophie.
Speaker 7: There's wonderful music, long pauses on scenes, you know, the
Speaker 7: camera will hold on a scene, beautiful cinematography.
Speaker 3: That is gorgeous down there.
Speaker 6: It's just gorgeous television.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's just weird, like it just premiered this
Speaker 1: month in April.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we kind of still getting around making the rounds.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's making the rounds and doing and it's doing
Speaker 6: great so far.
Speaker 1: So we're hey, you'll probably get another season of that,
Speaker 1: and you'll be back in Albuquerque.
Speaker 7: I think we I'm hoping we're back in Albuquerque. Yeah,
Speaker 7: that would be great. Thank you so much, Thank you guys.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a dream. I feel like we could
Speaker 3: talk to you for another three hours. Thank you so
Speaker 3: much for.
Speaker 2: Remembering everything and all the details and all the fun
Speaker 2: and some ice cool facts like oh.
Speaker 6: Ice cold facts. He's the man. No, it's you guys.
Speaker 6: You guys. It's like when you mentioned stuff, it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 6: that's right. It was a lot of fun. We're on
Speaker 6: it and really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Wow, what again, look at us if we're not the
Speaker 2: premiere podcast.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Can you image guests like this? This is yeah wild
Speaker 2: Hee's he was one a chatter good story and he
Speaker 2: also like took that job, like like he loved that
Speaker 2: job as much as we love watching the show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what's really good.
Speaker 2: You know. It's like fun watching someone that like remembers
Speaker 2: all these moments. And also like we've never gotten Dick
Speaker 2: Wolf's scoop. Yeah, like I want to hear about Dick
Speaker 2: Wolf's desk, like yeah, yeah, he was so nice, so cute.
Speaker 2: He was coming to us from a podcast studio. Talk
Speaker 2: about taking it seriously well, Kara said, as like they
Speaker 2: were closing and we were all logging off, she heard
Speaker 2: someone go that was fun, so I don't know if
Speaker 2: it was Philip or who is helping record, but that feels.
Speaker 3: To have fun. I hope you had fun.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine if we heard something else? Yeah, shrieking bitches,
Speaker 2: you know?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, But this episode, I mean, it's like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: we gotta do a post mortem. But do you really
Speaker 1: want to get us started about toxic masculinity and how
Speaker 1: you're fucking up all the boys of this of this
Speaker 1: fucking uh world.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like, it's just so horrible that we
Speaker 2: could live, Like, I don't know, because I want to
Speaker 2: do I was thinking about, like I'm so against chat
Speaker 2: GBT and AI so against it, but then it's also like,
Speaker 2: but it could do all these lovely things. I just
Speaker 2: don't believe in humanity. Yeah, I just think evil.
Speaker 1: A can to be trusted with a toy like that.
Speaker 1: We can't be trusted with that tool.
Speaker 2: I would love AI, but it's like, no, Chat GIBC sucks.
Speaker 3: It's bad.
Speaker 2: It's evil because we're evil as a as a numbers game,
Speaker 2: like why don't you let your boy not have to
Speaker 2: murder a rabbit?
Speaker 1: Yes, off this chain reaction of like manliness being equated
Speaker 1: to violence.
Speaker 3: And taking lives and all this stuff. It's like nothing.
Speaker 1: If my kids never shoot a gun in their lives,
Speaker 1: I'll be so proud, so proud. My god, Way do
Speaker 1: you watch fashion for to review? I know I know
Speaker 1: about it, but I don't watch it religiously.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. So the lasts was West.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Tudor boot Raven's outfit was awesome for the Western.
Speaker 2: Weard like it was this corset but on her titties
Speaker 2: were two guns.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, that's what you do with guns.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you make them into a corset and I'll have
Speaker 2: some fun. Yes, yeah, girls, she looked beautiful. I'm like
Speaker 2: obsessed with them. They're true truly two of the most beautiful,
Speaker 2: Like they're gorge faces I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 3: Icons and so funny. I love them and I think they're
Speaker 3: so funny.
Speaker 2: And knowledgeable, like the way they like talk about the
Speaker 2: outfits and the references and all of it.
Speaker 3: They've been there since the beginning. I mean, they're they're.
Speaker 1: They're they're I hate, I don't want to say like elders,
Speaker 1: but they're like because they're not old, but.
Speaker 2: They're like they would call themselves elder. They're someone's thirty two,
Speaker 2: Like Sasha Colby's what thirty five?
Speaker 1: I know, and they're like, oh, to just know that
Speaker 1: Sasha's here, She's such a legend, so she's thirty five.
Speaker 3: Drag Race is so funny. But I and they burned early.
Speaker 3: I just wish.
Speaker 2: People wanted their you know, That's what I always preacher
Speaker 2: at that where it's like the conditional and unconditional love
Speaker 2: and just yeah. Also, if you haven't watched night Owl yet,
Speaker 2: give it a fucking watch.
Speaker 3: Yeah, are you doing it? Is this uh thing of
Speaker 3: like just let people be.
Speaker 1: I know, I just really try to teach my kids
Speaker 1: kindness above anything. I'm like, I know, condition to be kids. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like, I know there's gonna be kids that
Speaker 1: you don't like. I know, you don't have to like everybody.
Speaker 1: There's gonna be people you don't get along with. Just
Speaker 1: don't be mean to people, don't be unkind. You know,
Speaker 1: there's ways you can like just be kind to people.
Speaker 1: Baseline and I just feel like we would have so
Speaker 1: much less of these shootings, these kinds of things that
Speaker 1: happen like every day, everybody's worried about sending their kids
Speaker 1: to school because we have one of these every week.
Speaker 2: And then they use all this in the bad schools
Speaker 2: to then promote homeschooling, which then like causes more issues
Speaker 2: and less funding for school. It's like it's all connected,
Speaker 2: it's all the fabric of it all. But if only
Speaker 2: you can you know, your kids aren't gonna be you,
Speaker 2: they get to be themselves.
Speaker 3: And like, I don't know, and don't have guns just
Speaker 3: lying around, don't rape your kid.
Speaker 2: But I'm glad with the real cases, Like I hope
Speaker 2: they start arresting and charging and convicting parents.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if your guns are.
Speaker 2: Left unattended, if you're teach indoctrinating your children with bullshit,
Speaker 2: you should you should be on trial.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, their minds, their frontal lobes are
Speaker 1: not fully formed, and you this is not the time
Speaker 1: to be shoving gun propaganda inside of them.
Speaker 2: Uh. But also, but great acting, great episode, great guest
Speaker 2: and as always, I mean, it's also not just about
Speaker 2: it's also not just about the guns.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know why that man thought he had.
Speaker 2: To also sexually assault his child to teach him a lessons.
Speaker 2: That's the worst part of this episode.
Speaker 1: Like that's obviously the worst part, but it also is like, what, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know that is so it's awful, but listen.
Speaker 3: Well, let's move on to what would Sister Peg Do?
Speaker 3: This week?
Speaker 1: For What Sister Peg Do, which is our weekly segment
Speaker 1: where we direct you to a book, a blog post,
Speaker 1: an organization, a doc something to give you more information
Speaker 1: about what we talked about in today's episode, I wanted
Speaker 1: to port you to an article called how to Address
Speaker 1: Toxic Masculinity with Boys on a website that is for
Speaker 1: a nonprofit called next Gen Men and not to be
Speaker 1: confused with Next Gen NYC, which is a reality.
Speaker 3: Show on Bravo.
Speaker 2: This week, how do we get a reward for not
Speaker 2: mentioning Bravo once this whole episode?
Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, that we need to medal we do.
Speaker 2: But my god, after my show in Philly, I was
Speaker 2: like talking to this group of people for a really
Speaker 2: long time after the show, and when I went back
Speaker 2: to all the other comics, some people that worked at
Speaker 2: the club, They're like, oh, are those your friends? I
Speaker 2: go truly strangers from the show. They just brought up Summerhouse. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they brought up Summerhouse. And that's all that I need it,
Speaker 2: that's all you need? That is Oh my god. Wait,
Speaker 2: page's fucking loungewear line. I gotta get online.
Speaker 3: It's live.
Speaker 1: Okay, So now you're not getting the metal anymore because
Speaker 1: we were bringing it up.
Speaker 3: We're talking about it. Listen.
Speaker 1: I think this is a really important topic. This the
Speaker 1: toxic masculinity and boys. There's all this shit on the
Speaker 1: internet that kids have access to, Andrew taate like all
Speaker 1: this shit that they're indoctrinating boys telling them, and this
Speaker 1: is outside of parents' control sometimes, Like if you don't
Speaker 1: know what your kids are watching on YouTube, then you
Speaker 1: know they're getting this shit from their friends, all this
Speaker 1: stuff about how to be a you know whatever, a man.
Speaker 1: So this is a really in depth article that highlights
Speaker 1: a lot of the presumptions we have about teenage boys
Speaker 1: and the trauma that many boys experience navigating toxic teenage
Speaker 1: boy culture.
Speaker 3: And the article does a good job of representing.
Speaker 1: The boy's point of view and points out that boys
Speaker 1: actually want to know how to be masculine without being taught.
Speaker 1: So if you're interested, you can read the article over
Speaker 1: at next Gen Men dotca and that will be posted
Speaker 1: in our show notes and in our stories the day
Speaker 1: that this episode comes out and All of our old
Speaker 1: WWSPD stories are saved in our highlight on our Instagram
Speaker 1: page called WWSPD and our Instagram's That's messed Up pod.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thanks for all that. I'm also sorry that
Speaker 2: I plugged my special while we were talking about school
Speaker 2: shooting and rape. It's okay, but I would like you
Speaker 2: all to watch we jump around.
Speaker 3: We jump around.
Speaker 2: Also, the Daphnie line is sold out and is obviously
Speaker 2: not sized inclusive, but even if it wasn't sold out,
Speaker 2: I would sadly not be able to fit.
Speaker 3: Where are you? And it's just funny. That's so funny like.
Speaker 1: That we thought page would have a size inclusive line.
Speaker 2: I know, but also like a man that being like
Speaker 2: these bathing suits are for big titties and it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: well they.
Speaker 3: Only go up to a large so love you bummer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So next week we'll be doing Nocturn from
Speaker 2: season one, episode twenty one. Join us please and everyone,
Speaker 2: stay safe, stay motivated, stay.
Speaker 3: Stay alert, stay alert. See you next week.
Speaker 2: Enjoy your summer. Bye, never change. That's messed up as
Speaker 2: an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover. Shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.
Speaker 3: You get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
Speaker 2: and follow us personally at Kara Clank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 3: Thank you so.
Speaker 2: Much to our senior produce Sir Casey O'Brien and our
Speaker 2: associate producer Christina Chamberlain.
Speaker 1: And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Speaker 1: Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song,
Speaker 1: and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
Speaker 1: our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and
Speaker 1: everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 4: Dun dun