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Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to Software Radio Special Operations, military news and straight

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Speaker 1: talk with the guys and the community. Hello, good everyone,

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Software Radio, Software Radio on Time, on Target.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host today, Steve Balstori joining us today is

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Speaker 1: we have a great guest already on the line with us,

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Speaker 1: being West. He's been a prolific author. He was a

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Speaker 1: Marine Corps veteran. Uh, he fought in Vietnam and then

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Speaker 1: he's written a slew of books about combat, mostly about

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Speaker 1: the Marines. We gotta get him on to the special

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Speaker 1: operators to the Army on this but uh, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: we want to welcome him to the podcast. Bing has

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Speaker 1: been Like I said, he grew up around Marines. He

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Speaker 1: was a Marine, his son was a Marine. I think

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Speaker 1: both of them served in Force Recon. But we'll ask

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Speaker 1: him that as soon as uh we get him on

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Speaker 1: the line here. So being welcome, sir, we want to

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Speaker 1: thank you for taking the time to join us this

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Speaker 1: afternoon because we want to discuss your newest book that

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Speaker 1: was just released I believe today, the Last Platoon. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you, Steve. Yeah, glad to be here. MM hmm,

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Speaker 1: it's our pleasure. It's our pleasure and totally here. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: you growing up in Georgia to Massachusetts. I read your bio,

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Speaker 1: so of course I was like, well, we have to

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Speaker 1: get him on now in the podcast because the fellow

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Speaker 1: Red Sox fan. So uh. But I one of the

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Speaker 1: things that I saw in your bio was, um, I

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Speaker 1: guess probably when you were about six or seven years old. Um,

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Speaker 1: your dad had a lot of local baseball team full

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Speaker 1: of you know, marine corvettes, to use your homes attic

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Speaker 1: as a clubhouse. So you got you know, you get

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Speaker 1: bitten by the bug at a very early age, didn't you. Well,

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Speaker 1: it was really a little bit earlier when just I

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Speaker 1: was too when the war began and my mom her

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Speaker 1: brothers were all members of a baseball team and they

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Speaker 1: used the upstairs of our house, as you indicator, as

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Speaker 1: the clubhouse. So they went off to Guanda Canal. The

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Speaker 1: Marines won't do that anymore, but they allowed the entire

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Speaker 1: baseball team to go off together, and they stopped doing

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Speaker 1: that because so many of them were killed out of

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Speaker 1: the same groups. But when they would come home from

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Speaker 1: the islands, they didn't know how to talk to their

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Speaker 1: parents about what they've been doing. They're only eighteen nineteen

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Speaker 1: year olds. So they'd all come to the clubhouse and

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Speaker 1: my mother set me up there whe where they were

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Speaker 1: brothers because she thought, well, they're gonn build in babysitters.

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Speaker 1: We they weren't going to stay around the house. So

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Speaker 1: from from two to ninety seven, I was basically raised

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Speaker 1: by the Marines because we had six other kids in

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Speaker 1: our family. But the Marines will sneak down the backstairs.

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Speaker 1: They put a banking around me and tell me to shush,

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Speaker 1: and we get down. The next thing I know, I'd

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Speaker 1: be sitting on a bar stool or sitting on the

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Speaker 1: bar while they're all drinking, you know, so talk about

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Speaker 1: being you know, hit with the bug in both uncle's

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Speaker 1: platoon commanders in the infantry on Okinawa, and my mother

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Speaker 1: is scared to death that her two brothers are going

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Speaker 1: to be killed. And she said, you have to do

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Speaker 1: something for the war effort. So I had this blanket

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Speaker 1: I loved, and she said with that, I threw it

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Speaker 1: out the window and I said, that's for the dirty

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Speaker 1: yellow baskets. And she said at that point she thought

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Speaker 1: something was happening up in that clubhouse that shouldn't be happening.

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Speaker 1: Donators to say. You know when I when I got

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Speaker 1: out of college, I enlisted and became a Marine and

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Speaker 1: went to Vietnam, and uh fuck, it was just inevitable.

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Speaker 1: I was going to do it right. And uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's funny because you talk about the Marines back in

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Speaker 1: the Second World War with so many of the guys

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Speaker 1: going off to fight back then, and that's a big

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Speaker 1: difference between I think what's happening today what happened in

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Speaker 1: World War Two obviously much larger scale. But you know,

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Speaker 1: those guys all were very humble. They when they came home,

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Speaker 1: they didn't want to make a big deal out of themselves.

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Speaker 1: So you know, they didn't really know how to talk

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Speaker 1: to anybody about their experiences other than themselves. I know

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Speaker 1: my father was the same way. He fought in World

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Speaker 1: War Two in Europe. Uh, and he was in armor

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Speaker 1: and he fought the Germans, and he would never talk

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Speaker 1: about it. And unless some of his army buds who

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Speaker 1: grew up around with them, that served with them, they

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Speaker 1: would come over our house maybe once or twice a

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Speaker 1: year during the summer, and then they'd get off on

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Speaker 1: their own and talk about it. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: it's a very common thing for that generation, wasn't it. Well,

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Speaker 1: it was, and I think for for a good reason.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we now pictures like saving Private Ryan, so

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Speaker 1: gradually we we understood that was a total war. And

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Speaker 1: when they were out there, that was with the killing fields,

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Speaker 1: especially for the infantry. And yet when they came home,

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Speaker 1: they were still part of a united nation. You know,

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Speaker 1: we weren't separated as a nation. So I can understand

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Speaker 1: why they didn't want to come back and sort of say,

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Speaker 1: holy smokes, what I had to do on o jam

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Speaker 1: are normandy? You know, they and they didn't have I mean,

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Speaker 1: the other interesting thing is today we would say every

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Speaker 1: one of those guys had post traumatic stress. I mean,

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Speaker 1: of course they did, but you know, they had loving

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Speaker 1: families to come back to the nation was happy that

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Speaker 1: the war was over and they had wanted and I

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Speaker 1: think that helped them all get over it. But wow,

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Speaker 1: they saw much more combat I think, at least equal

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Speaker 1: to what I saw in Vietnam and to what what

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Speaker 1: you know, the younger generations are in Afghanistan and and Iraq. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's a good point. I mean, but you know,

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Speaker 1: even as yourself. You let a hundred combat patrols during

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Speaker 1: the Vietnam War beat and that was kind of during

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Speaker 1: the peak between sixties six and nine, which I'm assuming

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Speaker 1: you were there during had offensive. But you know, I

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Speaker 1: think you and I and all the listen, there's no

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Speaker 1: all the same thing. I mean, you get on battlefields,

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Speaker 1: it is plain luck that you come back and somebody

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Speaker 1: else doesn't, or that you still have your legs and

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Speaker 1: the next guy doesn't. We all know that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's not any special skill. I mean, you your heads

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Speaker 1: on a swivel, you try to do everything right, but

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Speaker 1: you know it's just a coin flip. And I was

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Speaker 1: just playing lucky. My biggest my fourth recon uh squad,

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Speaker 1: well we only had five of us. I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: they did this. They sent us into the dmz IS

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Speaker 1: at sixties six, into the demilitarized zone because we had

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Speaker 1: a North Vietnamese division attacking us along the northern border

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Speaker 1: South Vietnam, and they want to know what was going on,

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Speaker 1: what was going on? Holy smokes, By the third day,

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Speaker 1: we were so deep in there, we were saying no

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Speaker 1: viets everywhere, and we made the mistake of calling in

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Speaker 1: some Marty and then they found out we were there

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Speaker 1: and they came after us, and and we had no

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Speaker 1: way out. I thought, oh jeez. And I was on

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Speaker 1: the phone on the PSC you know, screaming for any station,

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Speaker 1: any help, and this tiny little little look like a

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Speaker 1: piper cub comes overhead and this guy says on the FM,

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Speaker 1: he said, get your heads down, and with that he

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Speaker 1: fires two dinky little rockets. And I thought, God, there

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Speaker 1: at least a hundred of them coming up that damn

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Speaker 1: hill and he firs two rockets. That was the last

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Speaker 1: thing I remember. For about ten minutes. There was an

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Speaker 1: f a going up north to hit a bridge up

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Speaker 1: in Hannoy and instead this this a bird dog called

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Speaker 1: to him and said that put that those guys that

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Speaker 1: scours recoing gang, they're going under. You have to drop

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Speaker 1: on them. And he dropped to two thousand pound bombs.

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Speaker 1: And oh that was it. I mean, we when we

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Speaker 1: came to and I got on the on the radio

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Speaker 1: and I said, you son of a bit, you dropped

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Speaker 1: on us, dropped on us. And he was up there

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Speaker 1: circling around the pilot Orson Swindle was his name above

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Speaker 1: the fact, and he said over over the freak. He

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Speaker 1: heard that come through and he said, those are the

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Speaker 1: most wonderful words he ever heard, because he said he

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Speaker 1: killed us and that was the end of the North

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Speaker 1: Fiaes for a while, and and we were able to

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Speaker 1: get out of there the next day. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: you run into those kinds of things and you you're

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Speaker 1: just you're fortunate that you make it out right. I

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Speaker 1: was talking about a week ago with one of the

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Speaker 1: guys who were involved in Max Sog and uh I

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Speaker 1: remember when I was a young buck going through the

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Speaker 1: Special Forces. Of course, we had one of those guys,

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Speaker 1: you know, with a lot of combat experience during that time,

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Speaker 1: doing the same kind of thing you're talking about. He

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Speaker 1: came and spoke to our class and and he was saying, yes,

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Speaker 1: sometimes you know, you get dropped in and you don't

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Speaker 1: realize it, but you're right in the middle of a

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Speaker 1: lot of North vietnamme and you're just running for your life.

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Speaker 1: And one of the kids said, how close were they?

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Speaker 1: And he said, well, one of those little uh I

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Speaker 1: forget what he called how he turned. One of those

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Speaker 1: little guys threw a hand grenade at us and it

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Speaker 1: hit me in the back of the head. As I

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Speaker 1: was running down the trail and uh, he said. Then

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Speaker 1: it bounced off and went from there. And then the

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Speaker 1: guy said did it explode? And he was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it killed me, don't you know. Yeah, that was a

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Speaker 1: brilliant question. Sog Wow. I mean those guys and when

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Speaker 1: they were in the special camps where they had the Montyons,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, up up on the hills, I mean, they

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Speaker 1: really took took a beating, especially in sixty eight. By

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Speaker 1: sixty nine we began to get things under control, but

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Speaker 1: sixty seven and sixty eight they were getting looped. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: which brings us to you know, at the end of

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Speaker 1: your combat tour, the Marines assigned you to Right Small

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Speaker 1: Unit Action in Vietnam, which is like a It was

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Speaker 1: pretty much a guide for units coming in and fighting

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Speaker 1: in the country. And then you also wrote The Village

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Speaker 1: about the combat action platoons who lived with the Vietnamese locals. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: you guys saw a lot of combat because you were

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Speaker 1: kind of on the tip of the spear out there,

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Speaker 1: and that that kind of set you. I guess your

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Speaker 1: your next career was writing, I mean writing books and

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Speaker 1: and going on from there. How successful do you believe

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Speaker 1: that that first book, Small Action Unit in Vietnam was

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Speaker 1: for for troops coming in. Do you think it was?

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Speaker 1: It was very worthwhile. It was something, you know, lessons learned.

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Speaker 1: Where these guys were taking those uh um words the heart. Well,

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Speaker 1: I a hundred thousand copies of it were circulated inside

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Speaker 1: not only the Marines but also the army because it

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Speaker 1: gave the the E fives and the E six is

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Speaker 1: and uh the old ones and oh two is going

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Speaker 1: over a sense for what it was going to be

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Speaker 1: like in a platoon and what they had to watch

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Speaker 1: out for. And I tried to put in all the

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Speaker 1: different different kinds of combat that the Marines have sent

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Speaker 1: me in, so they had different than nyettes. And I

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Speaker 1: kept every vignette separate from the other one and just

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Speaker 1: indicated this is how it is. So I hope it

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Speaker 1: did help someone well, which will bring I know that

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Speaker 1: you spent a lot of time with the Marines in

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Speaker 1: Iraq and Afghanistan. I think you've been over there about

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Speaker 1: thirty or forty times, and uh yeah, so, I mean

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Speaker 1: you spend a lot of time with the troops in

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Speaker 1: the field. Obviously you weren't spending time in kabbal so

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Speaker 1: which brings us to your last book. I know you've

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Speaker 1: written quite a few about, you know, the wars in

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Speaker 1: Iraq and Afghanistan, but I wanted to talk to you

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Speaker 1: about your latest book, The Last Platoon, because what I

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Speaker 1: thought the fascinating part of it is is you're dealing

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Speaker 1: with a very small unit uh uh security platoon that's

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Speaker 1: being tapped to do a special mission. You're getting their perspective.

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Speaker 1: They're attached with some CIA guys who are you know,

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Speaker 1: their special activities guys. You're getting their perspective. And you also,

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Speaker 1: you know this is written as a novel, You're you're

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Speaker 1: getting the perspective of the Taliban guys that they're going against.

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Speaker 1: And you know, for a lot of our I say,

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Speaker 1: countrymen here in the States, they have a hard time

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Speaker 1: understanding the mindset of the Taliban, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: what this book right here, well, I think it opens

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Speaker 1: a lot of eyes because if you haven't been there,

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Speaker 1: you're not familiar what you're going on. They're quite different

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Speaker 1: than and they have a different mindset than the people

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Speaker 1: here in the West. Well, thank you, Steve, That's what

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Speaker 1: I was trying to do. Um, I have been over

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Speaker 1: there for so long, so many years, and I you know,

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Speaker 1: I get along well with with a lot of the generals,

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Speaker 1: not all of them, some of them really just like me.

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Speaker 1: But I couldn't. I couldn't understand what we were doing.

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Speaker 1: I really could not, because Afghanistan is a set of

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Speaker 1: tribes that are hurdling headlong into the ninth century. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they haven't made it to the tenth century yet. And

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Speaker 1: and and we were sent over there to to nation

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Speaker 1: build and make democrats and republicans out of them. I

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Speaker 1: our troops. I never understood what we were doing out there.

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Speaker 1: And um, the general has got very annoyed with me.

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Speaker 1: But I was getting annoyed with them because I kept saying,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you think we're doing out most

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Speaker 1: you walk around until you get into a fight with

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Speaker 1: the Taliban, and you think you're making progress. So I

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Speaker 1: tried in this book to take twenty years and put

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Speaker 1: it into into one one story of what happened to

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Speaker 1: one platoon, and also put in when I knew about

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Speaker 1: the Taliban and how they were thinking and why they

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Speaker 1: were fighting, and linked them back to the guys who

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Speaker 1: were in charge of them in Pakistan, because they have

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Speaker 1: their own chain of command and they're safe in Pakistan.

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Speaker 1: And then I linked this platoon all the way back

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Speaker 1: to the President and Secretary of Defense in Washington to

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Speaker 1: try to show people that at the top they didn't know.

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Speaker 1: The White House had no humility, and whether it be

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Speaker 1: under Republican a Democrat, they didn't really know what was

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Speaker 1: going on out there. And the year after year doing

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Speaker 1: this it was like banging your head against cement. So

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Speaker 1: I tried. I tried in the book to show what

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Speaker 1: the war looked like, what it really was from different

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Speaker 1: points of view, the enemy as well as US. I

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Speaker 1: think that's a great point and that comes clear as

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Speaker 1: a belt through in the book, because you know, you're

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Speaker 1: talking about the Taliban, the the the one individual leader

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Speaker 1: you know in this small area that you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: his name is Zook. Yeah, but he had someone the

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Speaker 1: answer to just like you know, the the Americans do.

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Speaker 1: And you know, both of them are being lead from well,

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Speaker 1: in the Americans case, like six seven thousand miles away,

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Speaker 1: and the people in Washington have no concept on what's

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Speaker 1: going on, you know, really on the ground in Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: They're trying to you know, they're trying to micromanage a

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Speaker 1: war from thousands of miles away, and it doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: And he, I mean, his mindsets quite different than a marine,

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Speaker 1: you know, officers is but this is our character. His

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Speaker 1: strings are being pulled too well. And that's why I

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Speaker 1: was trying to indicate. Tzar wanted to win. He wanted

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Speaker 1: he wanted to keep his drugs. He wanted he wanted

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Speaker 1: to become the emir and helmet. But he knew he

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Speaker 1: couldn't stand up to the Marines and the CIA guys

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Speaker 1: in a in an all out firefight. So he was

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Speaker 1: doing the usual stuff, putting out the I E. D. S, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: But these guys were getting whacked and and his chain

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Speaker 1: of command didn't want to hear that, and he didn't

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Speaker 1: want to admit that he wasn't up to the task.

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Speaker 1: So he was kind of resisting and looking for a

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Speaker 1: way out, and they finally had to send in which

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Speaker 1: I don't want to give away the book, but the

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Speaker 1: top finally sent in some others to try to help

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Speaker 1: him out. But he was he wasn't quite telling the

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Speaker 1: truth at all to his chain of command. And and

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Speaker 1: in our side, I think we have such a can

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Speaker 1: do attitude beginning with the corporal and going all the

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Speaker 1: way up the chain of command. It's very difficult to

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Speaker 1: give a special Forces group or an O D A

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Speaker 1: group are are, you know, the tenth Mountain or the

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Speaker 1: first Marine Division or something an assignment and have them

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Speaker 1: come back and say, we're not really getting it done.

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Speaker 1: So by the time you get up the chain of command,

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Speaker 1: it becomes so fuzzy that it infuriated me because no

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Speaker 1: one was asking the real hard question. Now, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: if we're doing so well, why have we been doing

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Speaker 1: it for twenty years without making any progress? So in

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Speaker 1: the book, I try to show how that happens from

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Speaker 1: from all the angles. And that's why I called it

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Speaker 1: the Lost Platoon, because this was the last platoon to

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Speaker 1: try to do it. Excellent, We're going to continue with this,

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Speaker 1: but first I have to read a quick note from

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Speaker 1: dot com backslash soft rep or used the cupon code

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Speaker 1: soft rep. Alright, we're back to our podcast here and

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Speaker 1: we're on the line with bing West and we're talking

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Speaker 1: about his book The Last Flatoon. And and again I'm uh, sir.

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Speaker 1: You you wrote about our strategy, the nation build among

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Speaker 1: a literate tribes was foolish, and I couldn't agree more.

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, there's a lot of misconceptions, and

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Speaker 1: again you you talked about it. You know, the people

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Speaker 1: from the Taliban, they they have no loyalty to a

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Speaker 1: you know, a nationalist government at all, tribal and you

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Speaker 1: know they're dealing with ninth century you know, I guess

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Speaker 1: uh beliefs well you had. On the one hand, the Taliban,

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Speaker 1: well treat things are happening. The first, the Taliban genuinely

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Speaker 1: believe in their idea of the calisake and how terrible

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Speaker 1: the West is and how they have to kill us,

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Speaker 1: you know, but not as I mean. There are differences

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Speaker 1: between them and the al Qaeda who brought down the

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Speaker 1: you know, the Twin Towers, but not that big a

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Speaker 1: difference there. They're they're true believers that radical Islam is

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Speaker 1: the way to go. So that's the first thing that

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Speaker 1: is in their heads. But the second thing that's there

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Speaker 1: is that they're winning. And you and I both know

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Speaker 1: if if you're winning on a battlefield, your morale goes

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Speaker 1: up and the morale of the government forces goes down.

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Speaker 1: And part of that is because most of the Taliban

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Speaker 1: are Postumes and they live in the eastern part of Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: and most of the soldiers for the government who are

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Speaker 1: down there fighting them, they're not postumes because the Postumes

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Speaker 1: won't join with the government. They're Tajiks and many of

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Speaker 1: them don't speak Posture and they're sent down to this area,

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Speaker 1: so they the government forces aren't not out in the countryside.

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Speaker 1: They're not the Taliban control of the countryside in eastern Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: And the third thing that people just not aware of

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Speaker 1: the Helman Province and in Afghanistan overall ship out nine

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Speaker 1: of the heroine that is consumed in in Europe and Russia.

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Speaker 1: These many of these people are donned rich. Uh. These

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Speaker 1: farmers are not poor. They're all growing poppy and we're

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Speaker 1: out there so to saying work with the central government

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Speaker 1: and you shouldn't be growing poppy. Hello. You know, as

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Speaker 1: far as they were concerned, we're on the wrong side.

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Speaker 1: So I try in the book to bring all that in.

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Speaker 1: You know, their their their firm belief on the one hand,

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Speaker 1: the enemy's firm belief and on the other hand the drugs,

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Speaker 1: because that's a big part of it, and they're all

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Speaker 1: part of it. All the farmers are part of it.

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Speaker 1: One of the things we used to do. It was

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Speaker 1: just pretty funny. You know, every place you'd go, you're

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Speaker 1: out on patrol, and um, who are the Afghans with you? Well,

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Speaker 1: there'd be a few Afghans with you, but they'd always

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Speaker 1: give us an interpreter, a Turk who basically from the

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Speaker 1: time he was about fourteen and fifteen on would um

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Speaker 1: watch the soaps all day long, you know, the TV soaps,

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Speaker 1: And and then he then he get a job as

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Speaker 1: a turp and he'd be out with a platoon and

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Speaker 1: you'll be walking along and the farmers will be yelling

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Speaker 1: at you is we're going through the poppy fields, which

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Speaker 1: are gorgeous when they're when they're in full bloom with

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Speaker 1: the purple and the white, and the terp would always

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Speaker 1: yell back, no, no, no, no, no no. And I said,

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Speaker 1: so what are you saying? They said, well, you know, sir,

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Speaker 1: there are lists people who's poppy is supposed to destroy.

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Speaker 1: So all the trips would always say. The farmers would saying,

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Speaker 1: am I on the list? And the trips are already

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Speaker 1: all packed? Nope, nope, because they didn't want the farmers,

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Speaker 1: you know, shooting at us. I mean, where are we.

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Speaker 1: We're in the Wizard of Oz country. It's amazing because

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Speaker 1: you know, with all of this going on, you would

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Speaker 1: think that we would have had some kind of a

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Speaker 1: strategy to get them to stop doing that. And I

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Speaker 1: know that that's a losing strategy. I mean, we tried

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Speaker 1: it in you know, Bolivia. I was down there for

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Speaker 1: that Columbia. I was down there for that, but you know,

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Speaker 1: but we just kind of turned a blind eye to

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Speaker 1: that opium trade, and you know, um, and of course

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Speaker 1: all the heroine that's coming out of there. I mean,

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Speaker 1: in know, you talk about it in the book. And

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Speaker 1: I never realized how much money was flowing through to

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Speaker 1: these farmers because we always kind of assumed that the

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Speaker 1: farmers were at the low end of the totem pole

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Speaker 1: and weren't really making any money. But it's not really true,

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Speaker 1: is it. No, the the opposite is true, that that

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Speaker 1: the farmers are making an awful lot of money. It's

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Speaker 1: an awful lot of money. So yeah, and it's all

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Speaker 1: and that's I mean, that's where they're raising all their money,

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Speaker 1: is it they get? They get about two thirds of

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Speaker 1: their money is drug money and another third is payoff money. Um.

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Speaker 1: They collect from everybody for for little things. We pretty

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Speaker 1: much I think cut off the Saudis from from you know,

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Speaker 1: subsidizing them the way they did it at a certain time. Um.

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Speaker 1: But they still have pretty pretty deep coffers. And the

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Speaker 1: more they win, the more people will give the money

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Speaker 1: because they're afraid mm hmm, Well getting back to the

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Speaker 1: book now, And I don't want to give that much

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Speaker 1: of the way because I definitely encourage all of our

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Speaker 1: listeners and you know, software breeders out there to purchase this.

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Speaker 1: It's a fantastic book. It's almost like called the called

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Speaker 1: The Last Platoon. Yeah, and it's a it sounds it

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Speaker 1: reads like a true story cloaked in fiction. That's all

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Speaker 1: I'll say about that. But I wanted to ask you

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Speaker 1: about your protagonists. Captain Cruz. Yeah, is he based on

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Speaker 1: maybe a person that you've known, or is he maybe

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Speaker 1: a conglomeration of a bunch of different people. You know,

428
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: authors are always asked that question. Um be answer is

429
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: yes and yes, um, he's a real human being. I mean,

430
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: you can't be out there with those with those troops

431
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: and embedded uh and watching all the leadership styles without

432
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: really's saying, you know, his leadership style cruise, he's he's

433
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: the kind of leader I'd really like to be out there.

434
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 1: And then what you do is you and and any

435
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: any novels to tell you this. You start with the

436
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: idea who these characters are going to be? Huh. That

437
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: last for about the first draft. Then the characters run

438
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: away with you they run away with the book. They'll say, no,

439
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that. I'm going to do this,

440
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: And every every single novel is to tell you that.

441
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 1: And and my my, my wife Betsy. Occasionally I'll be

442
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: sitting there at that, you know, we're eating dinner, and

443
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: all of a sudden I'll be quiet, and she'll say,

444
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: you're doing it again. You're talking to those characters, and

445
00:27:58,040 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 1: they'll be up in my mind and I'll be idular

446
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 1: with him about something. And so with Crews. Crews is

447
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 1: a real guy. They are all real, but their composits.

448
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: But the moral dilemmas that he had, and I kept

449
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,959
Speaker 1: putting in these these problems that he's not one sided

450
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: in his character. He doesn't do everything right. He makes

451
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: some mistakes and some big mistakes, some small mistakes, just

452
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: like all the rest of us. He the character had

453
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: to figure out what he was going to do. I

454
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: wasn't going to figure it out form right. And you know,

455
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: of course he's the central character in the book. And

456
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: you know how you framed his as you say, the

457
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: moral dilemmas that are facing him. I you know, I

458
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: just thought he was such a real character. That's why

459
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: when I was reading the book, I kept thinking he

460
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: has to be based on somebody that you either knew

461
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: or met, and that his character was outstanding because you know,

462
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: he's the he's the combat guy. He's he's not a

463
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,959
Speaker 1: he's not an admin guy. He's not a paper pusher.

464
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: He's you know, at his best when stuff starts flying

465
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: through the air. And yeah, he does make mistakes, everyone does.

466
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: But I just thought, you know, the way he had

467
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: to choose in combat between what he wanted in the States,

468
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: because I don't want to get again, I don't want

469
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: to give too much away, but his sense of duty,

470
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: and uh, I just thought that was really really good.

471
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: I thought it was really good. And I thought all

472
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: the characters were good, but you know, obviously he's the

473
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: central character. And I just thought that, Uh, you know,

474
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: if if you're in combat, you want to Captain Cruz

475
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: as your commander, Well, next time I'm talking with him

476
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: in my head, I'll tell him you said so the

477
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: other thing. The other thing that you said, the only

478
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: grant only somebody who's been out there and has the

479
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: experience could say. Because it all came down to that

480
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: when you said his sense of duty in the end,

481
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: his sense of what he should do rather than what

482
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: he knew would be best for his promotion, etcetera. That

483
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: that's what was weighing on his conscience. And I'm glad

484
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: you brought that out. Let me just read these words

485
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: to you, because I put this at the beginning of

486
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: the book and people forget this so quickly. But this

487
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: is it. In doing what we ought, we deserve no

488
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: praise because it is our duty. And St. Augustine wrote that,

489
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: and that when you really think on that, when you

490
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: do your duty, don't expect praise for it. Don't don't

491
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: expect that. Gee, you know, look at me. No, you

492
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: do your duty. But that's so hard to do. So,

493
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: you know, when we see so many people in life

494
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: at all levels that we know of fakers and they

495
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: got there, they got ahead because they have fakers. But

496
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: when you run into somebody like Crews, whom I have

497
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: the pleasure of actually knowing, then then you see the

498
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: real guy who who takes risks and does things knowing

499
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: he's not going to get a good fitness report because

500
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: he did it and it's actually going to hurt him,

501
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: and he still does it. And that that's the Again,

502
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: that's the kind of officer that you want when you

503
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: know the stuff hits the fan. I mean, you know,

504
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: because he's not going to put his career first. He's

505
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: gonna put the men first in the mission. And that's

506
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,239
Speaker 1: the the Those are the kind of leaders that you want. Well,

507
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: I do have to ask you, um, was there a

508
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: reason why you framed it as a novel just so

509
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: you could get all the perspective in there? Yes, And

510
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: I want to tell it. I wanted to tell a

511
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: story so that the reader would turning the page and say,

512
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: and then what happened? And then what happened? Because that's

513
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: all We all love stories. So this is a story.

514
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: This is what happens to a small group of of

515
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: young men when they're put into a tough situation. And

516
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: then the CIA comes in and the CIA has its

517
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: own agenda, and then the president reluctantly has let this

518
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: happen and doesn't think too much is going to go wrong.

519
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: And then you have the Taliban lead bys are saying, oh,

520
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: they're not going to be on my turf. And then

521
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: you have higher ups on the other side in Pakistan saying, oh,

522
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: they're getting too close to where we have a hundred

523
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: million dollars at stake, and so from different perspectives, this

524
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: suddenly begins to escalate and no one any longer is

525
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: in charge of it. This is going to be a

526
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: dinamic that plays out and it's kind of like a

527
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: detective story, but you're playing for lives. Yeah, and uh

528
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: you know that's uh, it's it's it's a compelling point.

529
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: And like you said, every time you turn the page,

530
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: you know you want to ask, Okay, now, what's gonna

531
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: happen next? Because the characters are all you know, you're

532
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: you're wondering if this guy's I is gonna fly off

533
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: the handle, which he had been prone to do. And

534
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: then you have so many of these other people involved,

535
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: and then you bring in the c I A paramilitary

536
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: guys who are a little bit older. They have a

537
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: lot more experience than maybe the young grunts that are,

538
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: you know, on their first tour with the Marines. So

539
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: you know, the Marines are naturally going to look up

540
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: to these guys because they've kind of been there, done that,

541
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: and they know that they can they can sense that.

542
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: And I thought that the realism that's involved with that,

543
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: it all comes right through and uh, um, did you

544
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: have any contact when you were over in in Afghanistan

545
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: with any of the paramilitary guys from C I A,

546
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: what do you think, um, Actually, and I I picked

547
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: up you said earlier in the conversation Special Activities, So

548
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: I know I'm talking to a guy who understands that, UM,

549
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: And and that's exactly what happens. Look, the Agency has

550
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: done a great job of picking the best out of

551
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: the SF and out of the Army and the Marines. Okay,

552
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: they can offer them more money and more freedom, and

553
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: and they're doing very very good work with their with

554
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: their special teams. So I brought in some of those

555
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: people so people would understand that these people really are

556
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: out there and are very very good. And and that

557
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: leads to my next book. Because my next book I'm

558
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: writing UM with the head of the Special Activities Group

559
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 1: who's now retired, and we're trying to persuade people to

560
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 1: you know, you really want to know what they do.

561
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 1: Here's here's a book. And that's the next book I'm doing.

562
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: Oh that's awesome. I can't wait to read that one

563
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: because uh yeah, some of the uh, the technology that

564
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: those guys add in the book, it UM, you know,

565
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: it's just astounding too. You know, those of us who

566
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: served in an earlier generation, we didn't have those kind

567
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: of toys at our disposal. And it's just I would

568
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: have loved that one of them. I wanted to bring

569
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: that into that when they go on the battlefield today,

570
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: all the way down on the squad right out there,

571
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: I have them with their own little drones, because that's true,

572
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: they have them in their own iPads, um, and and

573
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: the the enemy has adapted. So I wanted to show

574
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: them how Tsar and the other side we're trying to

575
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: combat against this um so that it's not all one

576
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 1: sided at all, but each side is trying to figure

577
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: out how am I going to use my advantages to

578
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: win this one? And so it's it's it's it's a

579
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: mystery who's going to win? I'll bet you to the

580
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: end you didn't know who was gonna win and lose

581
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: on that one. No, I did not. And that's that's

582
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 1: the beauty of the book. And and again, um, I

583
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: think it's fantastic. So I can't wait to read the

584
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 1: next one. Now now now you have my interest peaked,

585
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: But I take it it's gonna take a little while

586
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: for that to come out. So this one just was

587
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: released today, but you know that that was the the

588
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: curse of getting an advanced copy because now I've already

589
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 1: read it, and but I don't want to give too

590
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 1: much away. Like I said on our podcast, we will

591
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: do a review of the book for our listeners out there.

592
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: We will post a review of the book on our website.

593
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: We'll have that up asap, but we encourage all of

594
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: our listeners and readers out there check it out. You'll

595
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 1: definitely enjoy this. I think it's a fantastic book. And uh,

596
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: if you want to know what's going on in Afghanistan,

597
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: this is why we've been there for the years. I

598
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: believe in we're back to square one. Well, thank you

599
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: very much, Stave. So. I enjoyed writing The Last Platoon

600
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: and I hope it does help our troops that people

601
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: will know what they really do. So I appreciate pretty much.

602
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 1: You know you're having me on. Well, it was our pleasure, sir,

603
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, thanks again, and before I would

604
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: be remiss if I didn't mention. I'm sure many of

605
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: our listeners know this. It's your son. Owen was also

606
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:37,800
Speaker 1: a Marine recon platoon leader and I believe a company commander,

607
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 1: and he was the Under Secretary of State, excuse me,

608
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: under Secretary of Defense for special operations. So um, I

609
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: guess the apple far far from the three there. Well,

610
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: I I have the honor under President Reagan of being

611
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: the Assistant Secretary for International Security, and then owen my

612
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: it was the assistant secretary under my good friend General

613
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: Jim mattis uh for special Operations. But you did say

614
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: when we when we started the conversation, you said off

615
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: fline to me, you know they should do more to

616
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: bulk up that position. And I agree that that position,

617
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: being the Assistant Secretary for Special Operations forces because he

618
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: has a very small staff and he doesn't report directly

619
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: to the Secretary of Defense, and that's wrong because he

620
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: needs a larger staff among the civilians to to be

621
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 1: able to get the resources the special ops need, and

622
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: he can't be cut out. He to a large extent.

623
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: The special ops are so special and it's going to

624
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: grow in cyber too, by the way that they they

625
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: deserve to have somebody equivalent to the Secretary of the

626
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: Navy of the Secretary of the Army. So um, I'm

627
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 1: not special pleading for the sake of my son, because

628
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: he's left that post now. But I am for the

629
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: Special Operations Forces. They need a civilian who has given

630
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 1: more clout and and I hope that happens. And before

631
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 1: we sign off, I just wanted to ask you. You

632
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: mentioned General Maddis, and I know you spent a lot

633
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,919
Speaker 1: of time with him over the years and you wrote

634
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 1: a book along with him about leadership. And you know, um,

635
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people really admire General Maddis

636
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 1: out there. He seems to be one of those kind

637
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 1: of guys that he's kind of like the Captain Cruz

638
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 1: who made it all the way to the top, because

639
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 1: he's not a paper pusher either. No, Jim Maddis is not.

640
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: And that's why he left after two years. Um, Jim

641
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: will just tell you the truth. I mean, and oh

642
00:39:54,080 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: he worked. I mean, Steve's unbelievable work ethic, Uh, but

643
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: he is. He is. It's scary how honest he is.

644
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: He'll just tell you logically what he's thinking and what

645
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: he expects. So the troops loved him because he said,

646
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: you know, they when he went on a battlefield, he

647
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: grew fangs. I mean, you know, he went on a

648
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: battlefield for only one reason. He he actually changed the

649
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 1: orders at one point when when it's a felloj from

650
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: capture or kill to kill or capture, to make sure

651
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,439
Speaker 1: that people understood what he expected was going to happen

652
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: when you went into those houses where the terrorists were hiding. Um,

653
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: Jim Mannis is just a straight shooter who was really

654
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: smart and totally dedicated. But he he won't duck. And

655
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,760
Speaker 1: you asked him a question, you're going to get the answer.

656
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: Imagine getting together with him and writing the book was

657
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: probably a lot of fun for you as well. Are

658
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: you kidding? It was agony? Can you imagine? I mean,

659
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: I wish you washing You know, I'm just a marine.

660
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: You know you can push me around. Can you imagine

661
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: putting Madison me on the same phone trying to get

662
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 1: one sentence done? You know, you know, we we spent

663
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 1: we spent two years for for three hours, four hours

664
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: a day, you know, and in intellectual hand to hand

665
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: combat about every single sentence. You know, So you know, yes,

666
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: I try to tell you you you you you undertake

667
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: a task with you matters. He throws his body and

668
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: soul into it. So but but I think I think

669
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: that book. It's called Costs and Chaos. I think it's

670
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: really a good book. It tells you why Jim Madis

671
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: was such a good leader. You know, it has good

672
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: leadership lessons excellent. Well, that's something I think that's in

673
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: short supply these days. We need. We need better leaders

674
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: and we need good ones, especially for our troops if

675
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna put them out there in harms way, because

676
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: we don't need to be fighting twenty year wars that

677
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: you know, we're asking our troops to do what they're

678
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: not trained to do. Absolutely, I wouldn't agree more. Well, sir,

679
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: thank you for taking the time with us, uh this afternoon.

680
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for joining us. Um uh.

681
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 1: You know your book was fantastic. I look forward to

682
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: the next one. Um and um yeah, we hope to

683
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: have you on here again soon when that one does

684
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: come out. Before we leave, uh, I just want to say,

685
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 1: if you want to get software on your phone, download

686
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: our free mobile app and get easy access to our articles,

687
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: podcasts and gear reviews, all perfectly formatted to your device. Well,

688
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: you subscribe to soft reap dot com to get access

689
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: to all our library of e books and our exclusive

690
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: team or informs and content available on all your Apple

691
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: and Android devices. M uh for all of us here

692
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: at softwarep dot com and softwap radio. Mr West, thank

693
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: you for joining us. Your book was fantastic. We look

694
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 1: forward to many more and uh let's do it again

695
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: real soon, all right. Thanks An Botch, Steve Saprify, all right,

696
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: take care, love them. Listening to self rep Radio