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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 4: Good morning everyone, Happy Thanksgiving week. Crystal grateful for you.

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Speaker 2: Oh thanks, sam'am, thank you. It was a fun time

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Speaker 2: with you here at the desk.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, it's a blast, and we should probably

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Speaker 4: try to beat our record today. Maybe go to like

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Speaker 4: four or five hours.

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Speaker 5: Be real. I don't know if I have that in me.

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Speaker 5: I'm still recovering them seeing Wicked this weekend. That's right,

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Speaker 5: you saw Wicked many hours time in the morning in

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Speaker 5: front of the movie screen. But it was great, good.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I'm glad to hear it.

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Speaker 5: Big fan.

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Speaker 2: I am excited about the show today though, because we

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Speaker 2: have some exclusive reporting. We actually sent out producer Griffin.

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Speaker 2: He's going to join us in studio to talk to

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Speaker 2: some of those AOC Trump voters and get them in

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Speaker 2: their words as to why they made the choice to

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Speaker 2: vote for Donald Trump and then down ballot vote for AOC.

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Speaker 2: Jail partners helped us identify them, So I think you

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Speaker 2: guys are going to find this really interesting. I certainly

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Speaker 2: found it really interesting.

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Speaker 5: We'll bring that.

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Speaker 2: To you exclusively. We also have a bunch of updates

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Speaker 2: on the Trump transition. His cabinet actually now full complete.

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Speaker 2: Not to say there aren't other slots he's got to

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Speaker 2: fill that aren't cabinet level, but he has, you know,

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Speaker 2: at a very rapid clip, put out his nominees here,

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Speaker 2: so we'll bring you some of the most interesting choices,

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Speaker 2: including Attorney General nominee now Pam Bondi, who was Attorney

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Speaker 2: General of Florida that was, you know, to fill in

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Speaker 2: for Matt Gates who had to withdraw his nominations. Emily

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Speaker 2: covered that for us last week. Also another really interesting

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Speaker 2: one the woman that they chose for Department of Labor.

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Speaker 2: So she is a very rare person which is a

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Speaker 2: pro union Republican. She was one of the only Republicans

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Speaker 2: in the House that supported the pro act, So a

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Speaker 2: bit of a surprise there. Tell you what that means

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Speaker 2: potentially for the future with labor and unions and a

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Speaker 2: bit of a conservative like business friendly meltdown on that

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Speaker 2: side of the aisle.

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Speaker 5: With regard to.

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Speaker 2: That pick, we also have some updates for you with

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Speaker 2: regard to last week, we brought you the news that

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Speaker 2: the ICC has now issued arrest warrants for bb net Yaho.

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Speaker 2: You have Galant and a leader of Hamas. We're taking

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Speaker 2: a look at which countries are actually going to bide

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Speaker 2: by international law and would arrest b b are saying

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Speaker 2: publicly they would arrest be be if he were to

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Speaker 2: be on their soil.

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Speaker 5: So significant development there.

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Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Elon apparently thinking about buying MSNBC.

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Speaker 5: The memes are flying Emily.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and many of them are flying from his keyboard.

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Speaker 5: Mm hmm. Indeed, yeah.

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Speaker 4: They range from genuinely funny to very disturbing.

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Speaker 2: True, very true as memes do, as memes do. And

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Speaker 2: I'm also taking a look at MSNBC. You know, I

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Speaker 2: really think even if the network continues in some sort

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Speaker 2: of like hobbled form going forward, which are likely is

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Speaker 2: going to the role that it is served in terms

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Speaker 2: of the Democratic Party.

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Speaker 5: It's over.

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Speaker 2: I mean they the combination of Trump winning and then

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Speaker 2: Joe Amica bending the knee down to mar A Lago

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Speaker 2: has completely nuked to that channel. And so you know

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Speaker 2: what comes afterwards, you know, will it be? Is that

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Speaker 2: a good thing? Is it a bad thing. I'll get

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Speaker 2: into all of that in my monologue. I've obviously got

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Speaker 2: a lot of thoughts on this one.

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Speaker 4: I'm not surprised to learn that you have more thoughts

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Speaker 4: on this, Krystal, and I'm very excited to hear them.

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Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, all right, let's go ahead and get to

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Speaker 2: We'll bring Gryffin in and reset, and then we will

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Speaker 2: bring you that video of AOC Trump voters and why

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Speaker 2: they made the choices that they did. So, as I

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Speaker 2: was just saying, we have Griffin here in studio with

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Speaker 2: us to help break down these conversations that you had

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Speaker 2: with people who actually voted for AOC and Trump.

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Speaker 5: We had a number of women who we were able.

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Speaker 2: To speak with, so set up a little bit for

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Speaker 2: us what you ask them and what your general takeaways

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Speaker 2: and vibes were.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, without giving like too much of a spoiler, it

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Speaker 1: was interesting because, like for Trump, the reasons were all

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Speaker 1: pretty much the same. It was immigration, it was wars,

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Speaker 1: and it was like the economy. With AOC, it seemed

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Speaker 1: to be more of her personality or charisma and kind

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Speaker 1: of like her like celebrity star status, but also just

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Speaker 1: like this feeling that they felt like she was real,

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Speaker 1: she was real, and that she actually cared. So that

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Speaker 1: was really interesting. It was a range of voters. There

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Speaker 1: was some people who were high information, like they've been

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Speaker 1: tracking it for about a year, and some people who

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Speaker 1: kind of made their decision within like the last day

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Speaker 1: or two. But yeah, the range of answers, as we'll

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Speaker 1: see in just a second, were pretty similar from the

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Speaker 1: majority of the voters.

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Speaker 2: All right, well, let's go ahead and take a listen

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Speaker 2: to what they had to say.

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Speaker 1: Why did you vote for both Trump and AOC in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 6: Because America needs a role model and I think Donald

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Speaker 6: Trump is a role model.

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Speaker 7: The border, you know, the people coming to us illegally,

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Speaker 7: the martyrs, everything, all the crimes are increasing.

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Speaker 8: The Democrats really haven't done anything for us. That actually

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Speaker 8: made the situation worse in New York. So I thought,

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Speaker 8: this time around, let's just give Trump, you know, a chance,

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Speaker 8: maybe you know, he can make things better.

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Speaker 9: He's very business minded, and I also feel that being

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Speaker 9: that he has these connections with other leaders, it can like,

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Speaker 9: you know, prevent war from happening in the future.

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Speaker 7: When Trump first came those four years, it was you know,

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Speaker 7: ups and downs, but it was nowhere, like you know,

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Speaker 7: it was no war. We didn't have any fight with

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Speaker 7: other countries.

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Speaker 1: How does AOC fit into that picture.

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Speaker 6: She's like that sister that will always defend you. She'll fight,

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Speaker 6: She'll scream till a bloody pulp if she had to.

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Speaker 6: You know, she's truly a fighter.

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Speaker 1: Is there a little bit of like a New York

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Speaker 1: realness that they both share? Is that what I'm mean?

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, definitely so much that they could be like

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Speaker 6: brother and sister almost.

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Speaker 8: I like that they're very outspoken. They really have I

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Speaker 8: think no filter.

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Speaker 7: If you look at Joe Biden, there are lot of

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Speaker 7: things probably he wouldn't understand about our generation or the

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Speaker 7: future generation. And also Donald Trump as well. He's aged too,

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Speaker 7: So we need someone above and be on like more

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Speaker 7: new generation and would understand more.

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Speaker 8: I just voted for her, honestly because the other people

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Speaker 8: I don't know about, and her I just always hear about.

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Speaker 6: It's like crazy.

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Speaker 8: So I thought, you know, she's a familiar name, let

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Speaker 8: me just vote for her.

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Speaker 10: My mother would like vote for her, So I.

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Speaker 1: Was like, Okay, that's that's great, that's that's enough. Listen

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Speaker 1: to your mom. Could you compare Kamala and AOC for me?

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Speaker 1: What is the difference between the two of them.

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Speaker 9: I just feel that Kamala had a position as a

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Speaker 9: vice president already and I don't feel like she did

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Speaker 9: much in the position that she helped for the.

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Speaker 4: Last four years.

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Speaker 9: I feel like she used entertainers for promotion and I

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Speaker 9: didn't like that at all.

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Speaker 8: She doesn't bring anything to the table, even if she

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Speaker 8: was a first woman person. She doesn't know what she's doing,

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Speaker 8: and she's going to, you know, not give us a

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Speaker 8: bad but it's just we're gonna go from bad to

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Speaker 8: worse because I feel like our country is doing so

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Speaker 8: bad now.

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Speaker 6: AOC really tells you what she's gonna do rather than

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Speaker 6: come on the worst. She's just more broad. If you're

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Speaker 6: going to change your world, if you're gonna run for president.

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Speaker 6: Start Now you have the president, you're a vice president.

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Speaker 6: Now you can start. Now, tell us what you're gonna do.

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Speaker 1: How do you feel about the war in Gaza? How

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Speaker 1: do you feel the US and how they've handled it

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Speaker 1: And did that affect your vote at all.

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Speaker 7: In a big way. Yes, we just don't want any

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Speaker 7: war and we don't want innocent lives to be killed

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Speaker 7: without any reason.

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Speaker 6: It's crazy what's going on there, and we need to

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Speaker 6: fix it and needs to stop. And I think Donald

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Speaker 6: Trump will be able to maneuver it. I hope he does.

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Speaker 9: New York have so many issues here with high rent

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Speaker 9: and working all the time. It's like you care about it,

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Speaker 9: but you have so many other major important things going

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Speaker 9: on in your life that just comes before that, and

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Speaker 9: it's just sad to say.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that Trump is anti war?

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Speaker 5: I'm not sure.

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Speaker 6: I don't think President Trump wants to anyone.

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Speaker 9: If Trump was in office during that time, we win

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Speaker 9: a lot of things that are going on with the migrants,

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Speaker 9: the war. I just don't believe a lot of these

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Speaker 9: things would be going.

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Speaker 8: On if Trump had been president. I really don't think

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Speaker 8: it would have gotten this far.

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Speaker 1: Would you vote for AOC for president as a Democrat.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I.

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Speaker 5: Would give it a chance.

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Speaker 6: I mean, don't I don't say that women are not

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Speaker 6: equal to men. But I think she might need to

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Speaker 6: work on her education of worldhods, like her way to

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Speaker 6: communicate about it and the policies and everything. She would

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Speaker 6: be good.

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Speaker 1: Maybe if Trump were to use like the military, Let's say,

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Speaker 1: if we were used to use the army to start

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Speaker 1: deporting people from cities. Is that something that you would support.

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Speaker 9: I would definitely support that because I think that would

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Speaker 9: be the only way to get the deportation process started.

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Speaker 9: We're talking about criminals, be talking about mob you know

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Speaker 9: a lot of gang members, and I mean who else

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Speaker 9: would be able to.

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Speaker 10: Do that but the military.

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Speaker 8: I think it's really a case by case basis. I

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Speaker 8: feel like a lot of them just come here and

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Speaker 8: get away with things. I don't think the police is

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Speaker 8: doing what they should right now. I really don't think

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Speaker 8: they care.

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Speaker 9: According to Trump, we will no longer have any more

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Speaker 9: presidency after him.

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Speaker 1: Does that worry you?

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Speaker 9: No, not at all.

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Speaker 10: We need to get rid of like Congress, the legislation,

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Speaker 10: the laws, like everything. You just need to be rewired

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Speaker 10: and re you know, re rethought out, let's just start

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Speaker 10: this whole thing over again.

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Speaker 5: So interesting.

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Speaker 2: So to Shina there at the end is like burning

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Speaker 2: all down right of all the Congress, like just let

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Speaker 2: him do whatever.

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Speaker 1: We don't have to work anymore after that, then that's not.

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Speaker 5: Nothing else to cover, so we can all retire.

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Speaker 2: There was so much that was interesting about that, though,

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Speaker 2: I mean surface level, the reasons match a lot of

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Speaker 2: what you see in the polls, like oh, immigration was important,

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Speaker 2: Oh inflation and the economy was important, But there was

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Speaker 2: so much texture there that was really different. And the

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Speaker 2: other thing that came across to me in watching these voters,

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Speaker 2: and like you said, some of them more like high

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Speaker 2: information war tuned in and someone were less engaged in

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Speaker 2: the day to day news cycle, which nothing wrong with that,

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Speaker 2: But in both respects with Trump and AOC, what they

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Speaker 2: really have in common, more than ninething else is star power.

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Speaker 5: They've got huge name. I D huge star power. You know.

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Speaker 2: So you had the one woman saying like, I just

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Speaker 2: hear about IOC all the time. Sure, you know, so

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Speaker 2: I feel like she must be doing something because I

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Speaker 2: hear her name a lot, And I do think that

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Speaker 2: speaks to one of the things that's been absent from

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Speaker 2: the Democratic autopsies that are going on is like, Trump

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Speaker 2: is a celebrity and controversy has served him, and the

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Speaker 2: fact that he's in his name is in front of

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Speaker 2: you and in the news all the time. And AOC

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Speaker 2: is also this sort of controversial celebrity, and in a

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Speaker 2: certain sense that really serves both of them and is

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Speaker 2: probably the model for politicians that both parties need to

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Speaker 2: follow going forward.

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Speaker 1: And not only they're like celebrities, but that they were

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Speaker 1: real and they were fighters for the things that I

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Speaker 1: kept tearing over and over again. Not only that there

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Speaker 1: was like a star status to them.

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Speaker 2: But what they were fighting for wasn't that important. It

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Speaker 2: was just like, I feel like they're going to get

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Speaker 2: in there.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, they're going to do something.

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Speaker 1: And oftentimes I would ask them like, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: I know, AOC and Trump have fight for very different things.

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Speaker 1: They have very different opinions on things like immigration. But

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Speaker 1: they didn't really care because they knew that both these

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Speaker 1: people were passionate and they fought for what they believed in,

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Speaker 1: which they just didn't get a sense from people like

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Speaker 1: Kamala and other Democrats, and it seemed like they almost

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Speaker 1: just respect that more even if it's like not even

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Speaker 1: if they disagree on a certain issue.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's important. And also what they believe in fundamentally,

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Speaker 4: in the minds of especially casual voters who don't spend

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Speaker 4: their days thinking about this, is helping the country. And

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Speaker 4: to the point that you brought up that could be

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Speaker 4: very different things. But if they believe that you have

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Speaker 4: their best interests at heart, then they just sort of

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Speaker 4: have to put the trust in the candidate that they

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Speaker 4: ultimately go with. They're not super partisan or ideology. So

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Speaker 4: I thought that was really helpful. Griffin. I wanted to

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Speaker 4: get your take on immigration because this is not exactly

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Speaker 4: a very white district and that mattered a lot to

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Speaker 4: these voters contra the media narrative about how it would

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Speaker 4: be turning many many people off and you know, Donald

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Speaker 4: Trump would be dead on arrival, especially with non white

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Speaker 4: voters because of the immigration issue in New York City.

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Speaker 4: You're in New Yorker. That did not at all turn

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Speaker 4: out to be the case. What did you hear?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really interesting because it seems very almost

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Speaker 1: localized of an issue. You know, I live in like

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Speaker 1: Central Brooklyn, and you know we don't really hear a

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Speaker 1: lot about the immigration issue. But where AOC's District fourteen is,

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Speaker 1: it's a little bit of the northern top of Queens

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Speaker 1: and then a large part of the Bronx and up there.

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Speaker 1: It just really seems like the immigration issue has affected

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Speaker 1: them a lot more. And I was really curious after

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Speaker 1: talking to all of them, because all of them would

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Speaker 1: bring it up as like their number one thing, that

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Speaker 1: their streets didn't feel safe anymore. They talked a lot

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Speaker 1: about fifty seventh Street, which which I guess it's a

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Speaker 1: big intake cetter for immigrants. So I did some research

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Speaker 1: and in the last three years almost a quarter million

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Speaker 1: immigrants have come through New York City. Currently right now

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Speaker 1: as of August, I think three years, in the last

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Speaker 1: three years about a quarter million. But currently right now,

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Speaker 1: as of August, there's about sixty four thousand in the

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Speaker 1: city being housed in like hotels, intake centers. They even

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Speaker 1: have like an old airplane runway where they have some

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Speaker 1: of them. And Mayor Eric Adams has been trying to

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Speaker 1: do a lot to other fighter, Yeah, another fighter, another

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Speaker 1: New York real one.

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Speaker 4: The Patriot.

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Speaker 1: But you know, Eric Adams has been doing all sorts

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Speaker 1: of things across the broad Like Eric Adams, he recently

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Speaker 1: traveled to Latin America to hand out flyers about how

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Speaker 1: expensive New York is so you shouldn't come, and so

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Speaker 1: he's trying all sorts of strategy. Yes, absolutely, yeah, some

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Speaker 1: geography lessons, but like they also, what I found out

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Speaker 1: recently is they have this new rule for sheltering where

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Speaker 1: you can only stay in the hotels now for thirty

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Speaker 1: to sixty days, and then you have to apply to

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Speaker 1: be able to stay in or you get kind of

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Speaker 1: dished to the street. And I think that's where we're

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Speaker 1: seeing a lot of these women, these voters noticing a

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Speaker 1: lot more people on the streets now because they're not

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Speaker 1: in the hotels anymore because after that thirty days, they're

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Speaker 1: now in a tent. But it's a sidewink, and they're

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Speaker 1: linking basically anything to those immigrants, any crime, any gang activity,

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Speaker 1: they're kind of just immediately linking that to the immigrants.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, but it's.

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Speaker 4: A sanctuary city, right, so that's where people if people

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Speaker 4: are on the streets, right, So if people are on

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Speaker 4: the streets, they remain on the streets that unless there's

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Speaker 4: like housing to your point that steps up, that's right,

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Speaker 4: that which seems to also be frustrating the voters.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then to the military deportations part, which I

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Speaker 1: wanted to ask them about, you know, because that seemed

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Speaker 1: to be just a big kind of national talking point

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Speaker 1: about will Trump use the army to bring people in?

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Speaker 1: And the core thing to them was they weren't really

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Speaker 1: scared of that because they were really sick and tired

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Speaker 1: of it. And it seemed to me that it was

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Speaker 1: pinned on that they found the NYPD to be incompetent

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Speaker 1: and unable to handle these issues, which I kind of

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Speaker 1: don't blame them. I mean, as a New Yorker and

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Speaker 1: you see these cops on the subways, they're mainly going

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Speaker 1: after like ticket fare people and on their tiktoks, you know.

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Speaker 2: So it was funny because that's something that you would

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Speaker 2: never from a top line analysis, you would never get

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Speaker 2: the texture of that, like, oh, they're like anti police, right,

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Speaker 2: and that's why they're like, I guess you got to

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Speaker 2: bring in the military, because it is true, if you

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Speaker 2: you know poll institutions, one of the institutions that has

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Speaker 2: the highest level of trust in the country remains the military.

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Speaker 2: So that logic is really interesting and not something that

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Speaker 2: you would sort of guess from the outside. But does

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Speaker 2: you know, from their perspective make some sense. You know,

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Speaker 2: the reality of what that might actually look like may

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Speaker 2: create a different impression, right, but coming in that's not

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Speaker 2: a non starter for them whatsoever. The other thing that

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Speaker 2: was really noteworthy and that did not turn up as

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Speaker 2: much in the you know, the surveys about why people

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Speaker 2: voted the way they did, is that all of these

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Speaker 2: women seemed concerned about war. They seemed concerned about Gaza.

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Speaker 2: In particular. The one woman who I'm blanking on her name,

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Speaker 2: I know when she you first asked the question, she said, like,

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Speaker 2: basically peace, that's what I'm most interested in.

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Speaker 1: I believe that was Nausea. Yes, Nazia, Yes, most informed.

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Speaker 1: She'd been really paying attention to almost all the politics

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Speaker 1: for about a year, so she was the most informed.

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Speaker 1: But all of the women were aware of this. None

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Speaker 1: of them were like, what's Gaza or what's going on there?

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Speaker 1: Like everyone clearly has been seeing some glimpse of what's

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Speaker 1: happening and not liking it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so if you're you know, the Democratic Party,

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Speaker 2: Kamala Harris trying to position yourself as this moral authority

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Speaker 2: that really undercuts it, and whether or not as true

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Speaker 2: that this wouldn't have happened under Trump. Clearly his talking

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Speaker 2: points had broken through with these voters, whether it was

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Speaker 2: ascribing all crime to immigrants when you know, the stats

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Speaker 2: will tell you that undocumented immigrants actually commit far fewer

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Speaker 2: crimes than Native worn Americans, but that talking point had

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Speaker 2: landed and connected and was, you know, was being repeated,

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Speaker 2: and the talking point about hey, if Trump was there,

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Speaker 2: I don't think we would have had all these wars

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Speaker 2: that also had clearly landed with them. And it was

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Speaker 2: funny to me when you asked them, like do you

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Speaker 2: think that Trump is anti war? And the one one

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Speaker 2: who's like, I don't know, but you know, maybe it

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Speaker 2: would be.

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Speaker 1: Different to that point, Like these women, like you know,

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Speaker 1: some of them are like, oh, Trump's a role model

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Speaker 1: and stuff, but they were also very clear eyed about

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Speaker 1: who Trump is and the likelihood of him fixing all

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Speaker 1: these problems.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Essentially, how they saw it was they knew Kamala was

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Speaker 1: like a known quantity, and they knew she wasn't going

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Speaker 1: to do anything to fix these problems. They weren't sure

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Speaker 1: if Trump was really going to fix these problems, but

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Speaker 1: they knew Kamala wasn't, so they're like, well, let's just

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Speaker 1: roll the dice again. Just funny because like Trump has

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Speaker 1: been president before, you think he'd be more of a

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Speaker 1: known quantity. But to them still he was the dice,

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Speaker 1: roll gamble of maybe something different, but none of them

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Speaker 1: were sure.

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Speaker 4: Well, and I want to ask about that because for

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Speaker 4: many people, people voting as soon as like a civic duty,

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Speaker 4: you do it even if you're ambivalent about the candidates.

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Speaker 4: What sense did you get of why actually some of

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Speaker 4: these women chose to vote. I mean we saw your

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Speaker 4: name is Margaret with her baby that she was hanging

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Speaker 4: out with while you were doing the interview. These are busy,

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Speaker 4: I mean people are These are busy people. Everyone is busy.

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Speaker 4: They have an option to not vote if they're ambivalent.

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Speaker 4: That's something that's totally understandable and common. Like if you

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Speaker 4: don't think out of the candidates is great, you just

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Speaker 4: set out the election. It sounds like even with some

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Speaker 4: of this ambivalence, these mixed feelings about Donald Trump, actually

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Speaker 4: went out and voted anyway.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they were just desperate I think for change, just

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Speaker 1: change in a large sense on a few different issues.

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Speaker 1: You know, we didn't have a ton of sound bites

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Speaker 1: in this footage about the economy because I get sense

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Speaker 1: that sometimes people feel a little uncomfortable talking about the economy,

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Speaker 1: whether it's kind of a morass of an issue to

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Speaker 1: kind of have the right word to describe it. But

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Speaker 1: people just felt like things just like weren't working for them.

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Speaker 1: Things were getting more expensive. And three of them, I

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Speaker 1: believe were actually mothers, And I did ask them all

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Speaker 1: about the child tax credit and under Biden that they

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Speaker 1: all received, and they spoke with that really fondly, and

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Speaker 1: they but at the same time, they were you know,

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Speaker 1: they're Republican voters. They didn't want handouts. They just wanted

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Speaker 1: things to be more fair.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you hear that alone.

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Speaker 2: You got a little taste in there. You asked, Okay,

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Speaker 2: would you vote for AOC for Presmasyah? Is that something

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Speaker 2: you bead open too? And one of the women had

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Speaker 2: this response that was like, well, I'm not saying women

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Speaker 2: aren't equal to men, but you know, maybe she needs

443
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 2: to do a little more work. Were there any comments

444
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,359
Speaker 2: that they made about Kamala Harris and her gender? Was

445
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,480
Speaker 2: that important to them? Was that a positive, was it

446
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:45,840
Speaker 2: a negative, did not? You know, was it indifferent? What

447
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 2: was your sense?

448
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,840
Speaker 1: So there was a lot of talk about misogyny, but

449
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,800
Speaker 1: I don't feel like any of them were misogynists. But

450
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,600
Speaker 1: they viewed the foreign policy and working with other foreign

451
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 1: leaders and them being misogynistic to women, and so that

452
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 1: it would just be naturally harder for a female to

453
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 1: be president and deal with all these men of the world,

454
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 1: which you know, isn't like maybe technically that false, Like

455
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,560
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure there's some misogynistic world leaders.

456
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,359
Speaker 2: They have kind of a clear iyview of the world

457
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,439
Speaker 2: of like, right, well, I'm not sexist, but sexism is

458
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,880
Speaker 2: exulting that exists, right, So maybe you know, we gotta

459
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 2: have a man in there so that he doesn't have

460
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:27,280
Speaker 2: to deal.

461
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:28,320
Speaker 5: With that totally effectively.

462
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think a lot of Democratic primary voters are

463
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:32,639
Speaker 2: gonna this has been my prediction, is like they're never

464
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:34,879
Speaker 2: going to nominate a woman again for a similar reason

465
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,960
Speaker 2: of like, well, I'm not sexist, but I think the rest.

466
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,960
Speaker 1: Of the country is it's like a self fulfilling loop,

467
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 1: right where if you believe it, then you feed into

468
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,880
Speaker 1: it as well. But they also always talked about how

469
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,199
Speaker 1: Trump was so good with world leaders, that world leaders

470
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,520
Speaker 1: just like like to get along with him, and that

471
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 1: was his like secret sauce to like stopping wars. And

472
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 1: they all mentioned like there just wasn't that many wars

473
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,959
Speaker 1: when Trump was around, and now there's a bunch of wars,

474
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,879
Speaker 1: and the Democrats don't seem to be anywhere near stopping

475
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 1: all of them. And there doesn't seem to be a

476
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 1: clear reason to these voters why any of them are happening.

477
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,440
Speaker 1: You just think that there's no reason, there's no reason.

478
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 1: We don't understand why they're happening.

479
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, and interesting, I know this is zeroing in in

480
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 4: one part of New York that's not like a lot

481
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 4: of the rest of the country. But in many ways,

482
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 4: it actually is like a lot of the rest of

483
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 4: the country, because if you look at that Washington Post

484
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,440
Speaker 4: met that we were covering all night here on election night,

485
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,879
Speaker 4: you saw movement towards Trump in many many places. Now,

486
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 4: Trump still lost a lot of counties, but there were

487
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 4: big swings in places like New Jersey and places like

488
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 4: New York, And there was also a lot of tickets

489
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 4: putting even places like Florida where the abortion referendum. It

490
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,879
Speaker 4: didn't hit the sixty percent threshold, but it got really close.

491
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:41,960
Speaker 4: It was like at fifty six percent. So you had

492
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 4: a lot of people voting for Donald Trump and voting

493
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,880
Speaker 4: for abortion to be in the constitution of the state

494
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,919
Speaker 4: of Florida. That happened all over the country. So I

495
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 4: think Griffin is just important to say that, Yes, well

496
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 4: a lot of the country looks at New York in

497
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 4: particular as the sort of like alien world, like it's Mars.

498
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 4: This is something that happened with voters everyewhere else.

499
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yeah, And you know, none of these voters are

500
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 1: like white men, you know, the like three proper. These

501
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 1: were mothers. They were all working class women between their

502
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: thirties and forties. And yeah, they.

503
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 5: Just none of the bros wanted to talk to you.

504
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:18,360
Speaker 1: None of the bros all shay for the bros Alpha,

505
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, like these women were you know, although some

506
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: of them had some things that you might not agree

507
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: with Trump about whether he was a role model and stuff,

508
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: they were just all very clear eyed that you know,

509
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 1: why not, we'll see what happens because right now things

510
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 1: just aren't working for me. And I thought it was

511
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,120
Speaker 1: just so interesting when they talked about like Kamala versus AOC,

512
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 1: because they just felt like Kamala just didn't really stand

513
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 1: for pretty much anything. They just were they were open

514
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: to thinking about her and just seeing like what she

515
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: had to say, but they couldn't remember or think about

516
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,120
Speaker 1: like what she was all about in the way they

517
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: felt that way about AOC. And I think it's a

518
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 1: test onto It's like I think they could vote for

519
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: a Democrat at some point they were, and even if

520
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: they didn't agree with all the same issues, could seemed

521
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,639
Speaker 1: to be like a core thing of like respect, like

522
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: I respect that you care about things, that you're passionate,

523
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 1: that you're not hiding who you are, and those things

524
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 1: seem to surmount like any of the individual issues because

525
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: they all love AOC.

526
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's been my thing is like I think

527
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 2: that a lot of times liberals look at politics in

528
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,879
Speaker 2: the wrong way, like thinking that you can just go

529
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 2: down and checklist stuff, like our issue set is more

530
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 2: popular if you pull it than their issue set. When

531
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 2: that sense of like this person's a fighter, this person

532
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 2: stands for something. This person's isn't just like pandering to me.

533
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 2: They're going to get in there and they're going to

534
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 2: mix things up. Those personality traits and that energy and

535
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 2: that celebrity Frankly, I think is also really important is

536
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 2: kind of the common thread that connects why you would

537
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 2: vote for Donald Trump and then check the ballot for AOC.

538
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 2: Great job with these Griffin is Cheney though, Oh well,

539
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 2: I mean that's a uniter across the board, right, should have.

540
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: Left that in the cut.

541
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 4: Also, I live when you come on the show. And

542
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 4: for people who know producer Griffin, follow producer Griffin. He's

543
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 4: doing sort of a Ron Burgundy look today.

544
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 1: He's watch out. You're gonna start dating yourself with that reference,

545
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 1: an old millennial reference.

546
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 4: It's an elder millennial rot. But we don't often see

547
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 4: you in a tie, And out of respect for Sager,

548
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 4: it was important for you to put the tie on.

549
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, we didn't want Sager to be distressed. Well, he's

550
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 2: not trying to enjoy his honeymoon, so that was very

551
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 2: kind of.

552
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 1: Course, absolutely, for I was worried a little too skinny,

553
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: it was a little too RFK Junior maybe.

554
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 5: But yeah, well we'll get his after action report.

555
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 11: Yep.

556
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: Absolutely, but yeah, and I really like to thank JLP Partners.

557
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 1: They're polling. They've done a lot of great pulling for

558
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: us over the last year, and they did the hard

559
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 1: work of finding all these people for us, and so

560
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: definitely check out them in the video description for this video.

561
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 5: Awesome, thanks Griffin.

562
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 2: So at the same time, obviously there's a big soul

563
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 2: searching autopsy situation going on inside of the Democratic Party.

564
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 5: What went wrong?

565
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 2: What do they need to do moving forward to try

566
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 2: to win back some of those working class voters who

567
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 2: have been fleeing the party. Bertie Sanders been pretty unvarnished

568
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: in his critique of the Democrats and how they abandoned

569
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 2: working class voters, and he just recently sent out a

570
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: campaign email that was not one of these normal, just

571
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 2: like boilerplate fundraising pitches. This was clearly coming directly from

572
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: him and continued that critique of the Democratic Party and

573
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 2: also opened up some interesting possibilities for what Senator Sanders

574
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 2: may be doing with his time in the future. Let's

575
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 2: go and put this up on the screen. I'm gonna

576
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 2: read this in full, guys, so just bear with me

577
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 2: so you get the full sense of it.

578
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 5: He says, I won't do it, and I won't do

579
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 5: in the Verney voice, rent of time.

580
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 2: Not that the American people understand that our economic and

581
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: political systems are rigged. They know that the very rich

582
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 2: get much richer while almost everyone else becomes poor. They

583
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: know that we are moving rapidly into an oligarchic form

584
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 2: of society. The Democrats ran a campaign protecting the status

585
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 2: quo and tinkering around the edges. Trump and the Republicans

586
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 2: campaigned on change and on smashing the existing order. Not surprisingly,

587
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 2: the Republicans won. Unfortunately, the quote change that Republicans will

588
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: bring about will make a bad situation worse and a

589
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 2: society of gross inequality even more, more unjust and more bigoted.

590
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: Will the Democratic leadership learn the lessons of their defeat

591
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 2: and create a party that stands with the working class

592
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 2: and is prepared to take on the enormously powerful special

593
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 2: interests that dominate our economy, our media, and our political life.

594
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 5: Highly unlikely.

595
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 2: They are much too wetted to the billionaires and corporate

596
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 2: interests that fund their campaigns. Given that reality, where do

597
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 2: we go from here? That is a very serious question

598
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 2: that needs a lot of discussion in the coming weeks

599
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: and months. How do we expand our efforts to build

600
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 2: a multi racial, multi generational, working class movement. How do

601
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 2: we create a fifty state moves not politics based on

602
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 2: the electoral college and battleground states. How do we deal

603
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 2: with citizens United and the ability of billionaires to buy elections?

604
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 2: How do we recruit more working class candidates for office

605
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 2: at levels of government? Should we be supporting independent candidates

606
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 2: who are prepared to take on both parties? How do

607
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: we better support union organizing. How do we put together

608
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: listening sessions around the country that intentionally seek input from

609
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 2: people who did not vote for Democrats in the last election.

610
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 2: How do we best use social media to build our

611
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 2: movement and combat the lies and disinformation coming from the

612
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 2: billionaire class in bright wing media. How do we build

613
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: sustainable and long term issue based organizing structures that live

614
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 2: beyond individual campaigns. These are some of the political questions

615
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 2: that together we need to address, and it is absolutely

616
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 2: critical that you make your voice heard during this process.

617
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 5: Not meet us.

618
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 2: That is the only way way forward in solidarity Bernie

619
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 2: Sanders So obviously, Emily that's caught a lot of attention

620
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 2: because it is very critical of the Democratic Party, says

621
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 2: like are they going to get their act together? Probably

622
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 2: not going to happen, right, So where do we go

623
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 2: from here? And you know, one of the things he

624
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 2: floats is, hey, do we support candidates? He does a

625
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 2: name check Dan Osborn. We have to think that that's

626
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 2: somewhere in mind, who ran as an independent but as

627
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,479
Speaker 2: a populist and came very close to winning in a

628
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 2: Senate seat in Nebraska. How do we get more working

629
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: class people in and the you know, the possibility here

630
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 2: of a third party movement is also sort of overtly floated,

631
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: So quite noteworthy coming from someone who still holds so

632
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 2: much sway and so much influence.

633
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 4: Well, and what he is saying is what we heard

634
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 4: the voters say in Griffin's segment, which is the big

635
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 4: theme to take away from that is people voted for change.

636
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 4: They voted for change. They voted for change, and you

637
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 4: don't tell people that you are a change agent. Effectively,

638
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 4: if you are Kamala Harris and you are defending the

639
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,479
Speaker 4: Biden administration's policies. Now we can have a debate about

640
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 4: whether Donald Trump is actually going to change Washington, but

641
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 4: he convinces people that he is. That that is his

642
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 4: overarching message, that he is bringing fundamental change, not as

643
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 4: Bernie put it tweaking around the edges, are tinkering around

644
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 4: the edges. That's with different policies. It's not enough to

645
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 4: talk about a child tax credit. You have talked about

646
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 4: why the system has created an environment where you need

647
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,719
Speaker 4: a child tax credit, where you need government, the government

648
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 4: saying oh, here, take a little bit more of your

649
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 4: own damn money, have a little bit more of it

650
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 4: back for childcare. Have a little bit more of a

651
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 4: back to pay for your babies. Like that is the

652
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 4: problem with the Democratic Party right now, just assuming that's enough.

653
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's exactly right. And you know I can

654
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 2: harp on this, but I think Bernie is a model,

655
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 2: a very unique model in American politics, not in global politics,

656
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 2: but in American politics in particular, where I would love

657
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: to know what those same ladies would say if we

658
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: ask them, like, what do you think about Bernie Sanders?

659
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: Because I think even though he's stylistically very different from Trump,

660
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: very different AOC also though a New York character, Yes,

661
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 2: interesting parallel there, but you know that people had that

662
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: same sense of him. This is a fighter. This is

663
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 2: someone who is focused on me and my life and

664
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 2: is going to go to war against the forces that

665
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 2: are rayed against me and my family and are making

666
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: life more difficult than they should be for me and

667
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,959
Speaker 2: for my kids to be able to find success. I mean,

668
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: the immediate question that this race is is okay, Bernie

669
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 2: Sanders eighty three years old, Like what does this mean?

670
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 2: What is he planning? And you know, people have floated

671
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 2: like is he going to launch a third party? Is

672
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: that what this is leading to? I think that's probably

673
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,479
Speaker 2: very unlikely, just given you know, Bernie has been in

674
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: politics for longer than either one of us has been

675
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 2: alive by decades, right, and he knows that in the

676
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 2: realities of the American system, Like there's a reason that

677
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 2: he was able to run as an independent but caucuses

678
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 2: with Democrats and ultimately ran as a Democrat in the

679
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 2: Democratic Party, because there are just so many barriers to

680
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 2: an independent or third party moved men, especially in the

681
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 2: post Ross bureaux era, being able to find any sort

682
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 2: of significant success. I mean, if anyone could make it happen,

683
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 2: it would be Bernie Sanders because he still does have

684
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 2: that you know, that base and that affection and that

685
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,719
Speaker 2: media and star power, et cetera to command. I personally

686
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 2: think it's unlikely that at this point in his life,

687
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 2: he's going to go in that direction. But I am

688
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: curious to see what he has in mind for his

689
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 2: next deck. I can tell you I saw him speak

690
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: gosh what last week, the week before, I can't remember. Anyway,

691
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: I saw him speak recently, and he's he's still got it.

692
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 5: Let me tell you.

693
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 2: There is no like mental decline there going on. You know,

694
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,719
Speaker 2: he is eighty three years old, but mentally he is

695
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 2: still extremely sharp and extremely powerful. So this could be

696
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: a really interesting development here.

697
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 4: He should be threatening them with it, even if he's

698
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 4: not serious. It's like Trump with tarifsts, Like he should

699
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 4: absolutely be threatening a third party, because someone has to

700
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 4: put the fear of God into the Democratic elite, and

701
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 4: they will. I mean, it's the same thing that Republicans

702
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 4: are dealing with in the Maga age, whereas like Donald

703
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 4: Trump not so serious about draining the swamp swamp on

704
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 4: some issues, but like the Department of Justice, Oh, he's

705
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 4: very serious about throwing a metaphorical grenade into the Department

706
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 4: of Justice. And so what you see is this internal

707
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 4: battle over you know, people like Bernie Sanders, who are legitimately,

708
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 4: legitimately a threat to the Democratic Party establishment, Donald Trump,

709
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 4: who's legitimately a threat to the Republican Party establishment. Even

710
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 4: eight years into trump Ism in the Republican Party, it

711
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 4: is still a tug of war between the establishment like

712
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 4: RNC type elites that say they own this party, and

713
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 4: they'll give Trump a little here and there, they'll say

714
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 4: nice things about him in public, but they're still going

715
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 4: to battle for it. You know, they're going to protect

716
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 4: their people at the end of the day. So it's

717
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 4: obviously not easy, and it's a decade plus long process

718
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 4: if you really want to reform the party. And who

719
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 4: knows what happens to the Republican Party after Trump, But

720
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 4: and who knows even under Trump what happens to the

721
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 4: Republican Party this next time around. But it's he's right

722
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 4: to make the threat because if you don't make the threat,

723
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 4: they have no incentive to do anything. As we're about

724
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 4: to discuss, yes.

725
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 2: That is exactly right, And just before I get to that,

726
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 2: I think, you know, on the one hand, one of

727
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 2: the things that has always made it more difficult for

728
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 2: a Bernie Sanders style like left populist movement to succeed

729
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: is that it offers a direct threat to you know,

730
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 2: billionaire in oligarchic class interests like that's central to the

731
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 2: vision and the ideology. Trump Ism is less of a

732
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 2: direct threat, and in fact, they did quite well under

733
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 2: Trump in the first term, and I think felt very

734
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 2: comfortable with him going into a second term. So when

735
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 2: you have not only the democratic establishment forces but sort

736
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 2: of like uniform capital class a rate against you, that

737
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 2: obviously creates some more challenging landscape.

738
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 5: But on the other hand, you know.

739
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 2: Trump has Trump is a destroyer, this is one of

740
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 2: the things I'm going to talk about in my monologue.

741
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 2: And he has kind of destroyed a lot of the

742
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: liberal institutions that served as a bulwark against a left

743
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 2: populist movement. I mean, MSNBC is the primary case in

744
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 2: point here. They were enforcers for establishment democrats, and because

745
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 2: liberals still had so much faith in these institutions, they

746
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,280
Speaker 2: were very powerful. So when they in twenty twenty said

747
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 2: Joe Biden is the one and that's it, you have

748
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 2: never seen the polls shift as rapidly as they did

749
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: in favor of Joe Biden to coalesce behind him to

750
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 2: defeat Bernie Sanderson that primary. After it look like Bernie

751
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: was headed to a victory after Nevada. I mean in

752
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. Obviously they were all aligned behind Hillary Clinton.

753
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 2: That was also extremely powerful, and that institutional trust with

754
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 2: liberals has really been broken and degraded, and the institutions

755
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 2: themselves have really been broken and degraded. So there just

756
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 2: isn't as much there to block some other left movement.

757
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 12: Now.

758
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 2: Do I think that that is what's likely to unfold

759
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: and that the Democratic Party is likely to be taken

760
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 2: over by left populist movement or third party to rise

761
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 2: or whatever. I don't think it's likely, but there is

762
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 2: a possibility that exists now that did not exist in

763
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 2: the past. And I think that's what Bernie Sanders is

764
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 2: sensing and seizing on as well, because those bulwark institutions

765
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 2: within that protected the Democratic Party establishment have been dealt,

766
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:16,800
Speaker 2: in a sense a devastating blow by their own malfis.

767
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 2: Is their own failures to grapple with trump Ism and

768
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 2: effectively defeat Trumpism, which was the central promise that they

769
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 2: were offering. They weren't authoring healthcare or wages or whatever.

770
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: Their central promise was, we are going to end the

771
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 2: Trump era. They failed, and that has really been a

772
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: devastating blow for their credibility and their institutional trust. So

773
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 2: you know, it is a totally new world with new

774
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 2: possibilities out there than there was before.

775
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 4: They failed, and they failed even harder. I mean, this

776
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,439
Speaker 4: was the same moment that everyone could recognize in twenty

777
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 4: sixteen and twenty seventeen and Bernie Sanders recognized at them.

778
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 4: When you have the former Secretary of State, this huge

779
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 4: figure for decades in democratic politics, getting beat by the

780
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 4: host of Celebrity Apprentice. He was hosting celebrit Apprentice less

781
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 4: than a year before, Like you know what I mean, Yeah,

782
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 4: I mean, I guess just under two years before. But

783
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 4: I mean that is it should have been the wake

784
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 4: up call. And then said they doubled down on Russia

785
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 4: and bigotry and blaming voters, and so that's a this

786
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 4: is a there at another one of those crossroads. And

787
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 4: you know, Bill Clinton seems to be ready to go

788
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 4: in one down one direction. Bill Clinton, of all people,

789
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 4: by the way, who was the sounding the alarm in

790
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 4: twenty sixteen about them not leaning into class politics, about

791
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 4: his own wife's campaign not leaing into class politics, and

792
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 4: getting their clock cleaned in certain areas that should have

793
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 4: been problematic to them, and he's you know, he's ready to.

794
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 2: I thought his answer was kind of interesting. It was

795
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 2: a little when I listened to it was a little

796
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 2: different than what I expected from him. So let's go

797
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: and play this exchange with Jonathan kpe Hart and former

798
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 2: President Bill Clinton, and then we can react on the

799
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:47,720
Speaker 2: other side.

800
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 13: And demonizing all establishments and all people were tied like

801
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 13: me to work and have a good education. We are

802
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 13: breaking down the legitimacy of not only people who might

803
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 13: be too sanctimonious and too said in their ways in

804
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 13: the past, but also people who actually know things that

805
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 13: are very important for us today and very important for

806
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 13: our continued growth and prosperity and harmony.

807
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: So it is a little bit of a mask off

808
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 2: moment there, because Bill Clinton has always positioned himself as

809
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 2: a populist, even as he embraced an ideology that was

810
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 2: frankly very technocratic total and I mean that's really is

811
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,760
Speaker 2: at the core of neoliberalism, is an anti populist sentiment

812
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 2: of just handed off to the technocrats and let us

813
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 2: handle it. And you know, I do think it's important

814
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 2: that you have people who are smart and knowledgeable and

815
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 2: know what they're doing, and you know, done the research

816
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 2: and all of those sorts of things. But you know,

817
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 2: here he really is aligning himself as he in reality

818
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 2: did in his campaign and in his political time with

819
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 2: the sort of you know, buttoned up credential elites. There

820
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 2: was another moment where k Part asked him this question

821
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 2: that I thought was kind of I didn't think the

822
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 2: question was really fair the framing of it. He says

823
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 2: to him, Bernie Sanders says, the party wasn't progressive enough.

824
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 5: Do you agree?

825
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 2: And Bill Clinton first says like, no, I don't agree.

826
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 2: And they did the Chips Act and the Infrastructure Bill,

827
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,439
Speaker 2: and this was in red areas. But what I think

828
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 2: Bernie's talking about is corporate power, and on that he

829
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 2: basically says, like, I think he's right. And so it

830
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 2: was kind of interesting to me that Bill Clinton in

831
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 2: a sense kind of corrected k Part that, like, well,

832
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 2: his critique and Bernie never says like the party wasn't

833
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 2: progressive enough. He says the party abandoned the working class

834
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 2: and did not fight against these oligarchic forces. And Bill

835
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 2: Clinton's in his own way sort of like, well, there's

836
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 2: a part of that.

837
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 5: I do actually agree with.

838
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 4: It's interesting because if you look at the policies of

839
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 4: the Clinton administration, I mean, what he talked about this

840
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 4: all the time, but he ushered in was sort of

841
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 4: the corporate era of the Democratic Party. Yes, And what

842
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 4: I think is almost poetic about that is if you

843
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 4: spend a lot of time around like working working class,

844
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 4: blue collar people, the point about the suit and the

845
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 4: buttoned up thing is really fascinating because yes, like soccer

846
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 4: and I have talked about this before, like it is

847
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 4: the John Fetterman thing like irks me a lot because

848
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 4: as much as I see him like kind of the

849
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 4: what he wears like cosplaying is like a working class dude,

850
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 4: if you are, if you go to anybody in those communities,

851
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 4: they'll be like, yeah, you damn well better wear a suit,

852
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 4: like if you you know what I mean, Like that's

853
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 4: a sign of like that's what Bill Clinton is reacting

854
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 4: to that, Like even he grew up, he grew up

855
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 4: with nothing truly, and that was a sign of respect.

856
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 4: It was a sign of like you made it. Like

857
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 4: you should be proud about upward mobility because that means

858
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 4: you did something right, and it means you worked really

859
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 4: hard and you like got to where you were, and

860
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 4: you have respect for the position. And the assumption that

861
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 4: you know, you have to be walking around in a

862
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,399
Speaker 4: T shirt to you know, impress people in working class

863
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 4: communities is like insulted.

864
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 5: That's not what Donald Trump says, right, exactly.

865
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 4: Exactly right, fair with his rolled off right Brothers shirts.

866
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 4: Disgust yes, And so Bill Clinton saying that it is

867
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 4: interesting to me because it gets to this point about

868
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 4: it's gonna sound like we should have Ryan's Lennon book

869
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 4: Behind Us Class Traders, where Bill Clinton comes from nothing,

870
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 4: works really hard and it becomes very successful, becomes the

871
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 4: president of the United States, and is now looking back

872
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:27,280
Speaker 4: at why people don't trust guys in ties like Griffin.

873
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 4: The answer to that is because the guys in ties

874
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 4: sold them out, like they came from nothing and they

875
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 4: ushered in this era.

876
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 5: And that's it was just but then collaborated with the thing.

877
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 2: The thing that's drives me crazy about Bill Clinton. I mean,

878
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 2: first of all, the decision to send him to Michigan

879
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 2: and to you know, make just insane comments about Israel

880
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 2: and Palestine, and I mean it just like, can we

881
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:54,919
Speaker 2: retire this man at this point?

882
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 5: Come on? But the deeper memoir.

883
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 4: By the way, that's why he was on the.

884
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 2: Interesting the deeper. Maybe he'll come here, wouldn't that be interesting?

885
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: The deeper problem is that Bill Clinton side NAFTA, Bill

886
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 2: Clinton pushed panti permanent normal trading relations with China.

887
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 5: Like you want to talk about what.

888
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 2: Devastated the working class, you want to talk about what

889
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 2: cemented the working class shift away from Democrats. You would

890
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 2: be hard pressed to find two more consequential events in

891
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 2: that timeline. And so for him to come out now

892
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 2: and be like, you know, the corporate power thing, maybe

893
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 2: he's got a point.

894
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,280
Speaker 5: It's like you helped to author.

895
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 2: You were the primary author in a lot of ways

896
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 2: of this era of mass inequality and rampant corporate power

897
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 2: and monopolies. And by the way he helped deregulate Wall Street,

898
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 2: and by the way he cut the capital gains rate,

899
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 2: all giant giveaways to the wealthiest among us, that spiraled

900
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 2: inequality out of control, and that decimated decimated vast swaths

901
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 2: of the country. Like you were the author of that.

902
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 2: And there's just never been any real reckoning with that.

903
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 2: He's still treated as this like brilliant political strategist and

904
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 2: elder statesmen, et cetera. But you know your point about

905
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 2: like the class trader piece of that, the suits and

906
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 2: the you know, the disrespect that that can read as

907
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 2: sometimes when you're trying to cause play as working class

908
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 2: by wearing the flannel or whatever. In that book that

909
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 2: I've referenced a couple times because I've thought it found

910
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 2: a lot of parallels to the current time. But about

911
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 2: the back to the Land movement in the nineteen seventies,

912
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 2: the hippies in this town in Vermont, who had their

913
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 2: commune and they're doing their whole like we reject hygiene

914
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 2: and our parents were these stiffs wearing suits and we're

915
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 2: not going to do any of that. They were trying

916
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 2: to get a job as school bus drivers in the town,

917
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 2: and they had maintained pretty good relations with their neighbors,

918
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 2: and there were a lot of them. A lot of

919
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:57,720
Speaker 2: the people in the community were like kind of okay

920
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 2: with it, but there was a pushback because they found

921
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: out like, oh, you guys are growing weed and we

922
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 2: don't really.

923
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 5: Want your drivers.

924
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 2: But so there was this town meeting that comes to

925
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 2: a head where they're coming in to make their case

926
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 2: for why they should be the school bus driver for

927
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 2: this little town, and everybody in this little town conservative

928
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 2: like you know, rural farming community. They all show up

929
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 2: to this town meeting in their Sunday best because it's respectful.

930
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 2: And the hippies, who many of them came from these

931
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 2: like affluent, professional, middle class or upper middle class families.

932
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 5: There's sort of.

933
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 2: Downing poverty as like a fashion statement. Show up all

934
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 2: dirty and muddy and smelly and hair crazy and whatever

935
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: and right, and there was something about that that also,

936
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 2: I mean that really rubbed people the wrong way of

937
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,760
Speaker 2: like this is not this, it's not cool and earthy

938
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 2: that you're like this. It's disrespectful, you know, to our

939
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 2: town and our traditions, and you know, this meeting we

940
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 2: take really seriously. And so I don't know the fetterman

941
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 2: caused play thing and the way that us so many

942
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 2: of these politicians try to cause play something that they're

943
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 2: not I do think comes off as phony and kendid.

944
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 5: It's worst, come off as just like.

945
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 4: Insulting, insulting. Yeah, it's like we believe that this office

946
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 4: has dignity, don't you. We believe that, And like just

947
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 4: the superficial signaling via clothing, it's it's Bill Clinton. I

948
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,479
Speaker 4: think the big problem with that interview is him still

949
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 4: pointing the finger at Republicans for and podcasters. You know,

950
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 4: that's what he's doing, pointing the finger at them for

951
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 4: making people distrust the guys in suits, instead of pointing

952
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 4: his finger at the guys in suits for creating that distrust.

953
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 4: That's right, the.

954
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 2: Pod because that would implicate him, right, because he's the

955
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: one that put those guys in suits in the in

956
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 2: the place to do all of that damage.

957
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 4: I mean, he's one of them, right, So like the

958
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 4: guys who and you know, maybe Bill Clinton thought he

959
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 4: was doing what was right. Let's you know, just hypothetically,

960
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 4: maybe he thought he was doing what was right and

961
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 4: it wasn't about you know, serving the class that he

962
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 4: came to be a part of. But if you are

963
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,240
Speaker 4: still pointing your finger at Donald Trump, the Republican Party,

964
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 4: disinformation podcasters for making the American people not trust the

965
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 4: men in suits and ties and the women in suits,

966
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 4: not usually ties, but the professional class. If you're still

967
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 4: pointing your finger at Republicans and podcasters and the unwashed

968
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 4: masses for not trusting them instead of pointing the finger

969
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 4: at yourself, you do not get it.

970
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think that's right. All right, let's go

971
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 2: ahead and get to some of these Trump cabinet picks

972
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 2: Emily that are quite interesting.

973
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 4: As of Friday night, in typical Trumpy in fashion, the

974
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 4: entire cabinet was completed. So Donald Trump's entire cabinet is

975
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 4: now known to us. You can go ahead and put

976
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 4: the first element up on the screen. Control room. They

977
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 4: political describes it as a Friday night flurry, and you know,

978
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 4: it kind of was. There were a lot of nighttime flurries. Actually,

979
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 4: the entire naming of the cabinet Crystal, but the big

980
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,040
Speaker 4: one obviously is Pam Bondie. We can go ahead and put

981
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 4: the next element up on the screen. Arguably the most

982
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 4: important position in Donald Trump's entire cabinet, with the exception

983
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 4: of maybe Secretary of State, which is probably most important

984
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 4: in any cabinet, but given Donald Trump's plans, the attorney

985
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,720
Speaker 4: general position is just absolutely critical. Pam Bondi is slotted

986
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 4: in after Matt Gates withdrawals. Pam Bondi was the Attorney

987
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 4: General of Florida, so she then went on to lobby.

988
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 4: There's a lot to talk about here with the Pam

989
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 4: Bondi nomination. In particular, I want to show just a

990
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 4: little bit of a flavor of how Pam Bondy Florida

991
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 4: has been one of the most important locations for this

992
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 4: debate over campus anti Semitism versus pro Palestinian activism because

993
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 4: University of Florida was headed by Ben sass Rondosantas obviously

994
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 4: wanted to be a big part of that discussion as well,

995
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 4: and Pam Bondy weighed in once so just as a

996
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 4: flavor of what could happen from the Department of Justice

997
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 4: under Pam BONDI, let's go ahead and roll B three Pam.

998
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 14: Democrats like Alan Dershowitz have sounded the alarm over the

999
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 14: growing virulent strain of jew haters in the Democrat Party.

1000
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 14: It appears their agents in the unfair press are carrying

1001
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 14: that water. It is dangerous, is it not.

1002
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 15: Yeah, it's very dangerous, Chris, It's extremely dangerous. And you know,

1003
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 15: you look around. The thing that's really the most troubling

1004
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 15: to me these students in universities in our country, whether

1005
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 15: they're here as Americans or if they're here on student visas,

1006
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 15: and they're out there saying I support AMAS, you and

1007
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,720
Speaker 15: I have seen that on all of these television shows. Frankly,

1008
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 15: they need to be taken out of our country or

1009
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 15: the FBI needs to be interviewing them right away. When

1010
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 15: they're saying I support Amas, I am a mass that's

1011
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 15: not saying I support all these poor Palestinians who are

1012
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 15: trapped in Gaza. That's not what they're saying. So I

1013
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 15: think their student visas need to be revoked. I think

1014
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:53,479
Speaker 15: we need to reinstate President Trump's travel band immediately. There's

1015
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,399
Speaker 15: a lot of things that can be done to stop this. Yeah,

1016
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 15: the anti Semitism that is rampant throughout this country now,

1017
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 15: and it's truly truly heartbreaking to see what's happening to

1018
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 15: all of our Jewish friends in this country. But I

1019
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 15: really just I think a lot of ignorant kids and

1020
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 15: students and people who don't understand that harmas equals terrorism

1021
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 15: even worse at its worst.

1022
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 4: So something I think particularly disturbing about that Crystal is

1023
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 4: she just said ignorant kids don't understand that harmas equals terrorism,

1024
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 4: and so let's just take her at her word hypothetically.

1025
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 4: She then wants to deport kids for ignorance, right, She

1026
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 4: wants to take away people's student even in her own formulation,

1027
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,959
Speaker 4: what's happening there, it's you know, your ignorance then gets

1028
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 4: your student visa ripped away or something to that effect.

1029
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 4: And the Department of Justice oversees a lot of these questions.

1030
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,919
Speaker 4: So just a flavor of the free speech support from

1031
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 4: Donald Trump's likely incoming Attorney General Pambody is very confirmable.

1032
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 4: She probably won't have issues. But what's interesting about herst.

1033
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,879
Speaker 16: Trafficking scandals with this one not that we know not yet,

1034
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 16: but what's interesting about her, and this applies to other

1035
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 16: Trump nominees, but this is someone who we can put

1036
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 16: then ex element up on the screen, actually because.

1037
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 4: It's what I was about to talk about. She has

1038
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 4: a long past as a lobbyist. She's a lobbyed for cutter.

1039
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 4: She worked at one of the firms I think she

1040
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 4: worked actually at one of the firms that Susie Wiles

1041
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 4: worked at. She's similar to Susie Wiles in the respect

1042
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:21,479
Speaker 4: that she's full maga but also has like pretty deep

1043
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 4: is deeply intertwined with the swamp, if that makes sense.

1044
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 4: So she's a she's a Fox News favorite. She is

1045
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 4: a lobbyist, and yet she also is she went and

1046
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 4: she she defended Donald Trump during his impeachment trial, like

1047
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 4: was part of his legal team. She's totally loyal Trump.

1048
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 4: She's also intertwined with the swamp.

1049
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's I mean, and that's that's kind of typical

1050
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 2: in terms of Trump's world, because ultimately it's much less

1051
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 2: ideological than it is about how do you feel.

1052
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 5: About the person of Donald Trump?

1053
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 2: What are you willing to do to stand up for

1054
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 2: the person of Donald Trump when he feels that he's

1055
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 2: being attacked or you know, unfairly targeted, et cetera. And

1056
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 2: so the fact that she represented him in his first

1057
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 2: impeachment trial that has earned her, you know, good graces

1058
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 2: in the the Trump world, you know. And the fact

1059
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 2: that she's a corporate lobbyist for Amazon, GM, Uber, multiple

1060
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 2: finance firms, Corning, Ken Vogel. She's still registered for some clients.

1061
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 2: Not really big deal. The other thing that was pointing

1062
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,240
Speaker 2: out on Twitter is the fact that her sister, who's

1063
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 2: also a lawyer, actually represented Elon Musk in his case

1064
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 2: against the Department against the government in terms of the

1065
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 2: Testless Securities fraud allegations, and so as attorney General, she

1066
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:35,399
Speaker 2: would be at a position to quash that ongoing DJ investigation,

1067
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 2: and given how much influence the richest man on the

1068
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 2: planet has in terms of this administration, I don't think

1069
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 2: anyone should be surprised if you see that ultimately happen.

1070
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 2: You know, going back to her comments about deporting pro

1071
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 2: Palestine protesters or at the very least having them be

1072
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 2: interviewed by the FBI, I guess that was her compromise position.

1073
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 2: If we can't kick them all out of the country,

1074
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 2: at least we can harass them with the with the

1075
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 2: deep state. In spite of Republicans positioning themselves as the

1076
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 2: free speech party, obviously there has been a giant, glaring

1077
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 2: exception when it comes to any sort of pro Palestine speech.

1078
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 2: And one of the things I want to talk about

1079
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 2: in my monologue about I'MSNBC and some of the Democrats

1080
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 2: who say they're going to find common ground with Republicans

1081
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 2: and with Trump specifically, this is one of the areas

1082
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 2: where you can fully expect Democrats and they already have

1083
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 2: been finding quote unquote common ground with Trump, with his nominees,

1084
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 2: with Republicans because this you know, witch hunt to snuff

1085
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 2: out anti Semitism and to crack down on speech on

1086
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 2: college campuses has been quite a bipartisan affair, so I

1087
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 2: don't think any of that will be a problem for her,

1088
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,839
Speaker 2: certainly with Republicans or with Democrats. And you know, it

1089
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 2: is interesting the sorts of things that are not a

1090
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 2: problem whatsoever when it comes to confirmation. The fact that

1091
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 2: she is a total swamp pick doesn't really matter. I

1092
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 2: think she will be easily confirmed. Is also kind of

1093
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 2: funny that on the one hand, she's like making all

1094
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 2: these noises about shipping out pro Palace had protesters, and

1095
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 2: on the other hand she's lobby's for it.

1096
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 17: I mean, yeah, I'd love to hear because if she's

1097
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,800
Speaker 17: registered to lobby for them on behalf of like human

1098
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 17: trafficking as an issue, because you have to say when

1099
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 17: you register for Pharah what you're doing, and she says

1100
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 17: human trafficking and other issues.

1101
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 4: So I would be curious to hear more about her

1102
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 4: lobbying for Cutter, and I expect some of that will

1103
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 4: come out during her confirmation. But she also came in

1104
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:26,879
Speaker 4: on the tea party wave. That's really where I remember her.

1105
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 4: She started doing a ton of Fox after that. I

1106
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 4: think she got an endorsement from Sarah Palin early on.

1107
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 4: So she comes from that world, which is its own

1108
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 4: kind of part of the conservatives movement. Mattered a lot

1109
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 4: back in twenty I want to say this was like

1110
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 4: around twenty ten.

1111
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, that would make sense.

1112
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was. It was a big deal to get

1113
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 4: Sarah Palin endorsement back then, and she really rode that

1114
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 4: wave in and so you can understand how being in

1115
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 4: Florida she was able to be pretty friendly in the

1116
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 4: mega circles and then ultimately ends up defending Donald Trump

1117
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 4: as part of his legal team, goes back to lobbying afterwards,

1118
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 4: and now Attorney General.

1119
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 5: Probably, yeah, looking like it, looking very much like it.

1120
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 4: But wait, there's more.

1121
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:05,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a lot more.

1122
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,320
Speaker 4: B five, we can put this up on the screen.

1123
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 4: Scott Besson is the Treasury Secretary. We're going to talk

1124
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 4: about some others too, but this is Elon Musk wide

1125
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 4: in favor of Howard Lutnik in the Lutnik versus Bessant

1126
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 4: race for Treasury Secretary. Lutnick obviously ended up as Commerce Secretary.

1127
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,359
Speaker 4: Elon Musk was seemingly suspicious of Bessence as being sort

1128
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 4: of a swampy type of person. That wouldn't be a disruptor.

1129
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 4: He said Lutnik would be a disruptor. He kind of

1130
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:33,760
Speaker 4: went out of his way not to say anything super

1131
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 4: negative about Bessen. Maybe reading the tea leaves on that,

1132
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 4: but I mean he would be right with Besson's background

1133
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 4: to be suspicious of that. The New York Times story

1134
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 4: that you just saw up on the screen is how

1135
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 4: Bessant went from being a Democratic donor to Trump's Treasury

1136
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 4: secretary pick. Which, actually, it's funny they say that because

1137
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 4: that's not unusual in Trump world at all. A lot

1138
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 4: of the people that he's put in top positions are swampy.

1139
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 4: Trump himself was a Democrat and has said that's how

1140
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 4: you got things done. So not surprising.

1141
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 2: Really, what is your sense of Scott Bessent, because I've

1142
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 2: seen different things. I've seen him as going on CNBC

1143
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 2: to basically reassure Wall Street, like, well, Trump's not really

1144
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 2: serious about this hole across the board tariff thing. That's

1145
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 2: more of an opening negotiating position to try to coerce

1146
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:23,280
Speaker 2: people into, you know, making better trade deals with US

1147
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 2: and trying to calm the waters of Wall Street. He's

1148
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 2: very trusted there. I mean, the other thing that's really

1149
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 2: funny about him is he, you know, was worked closely

1150
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,840
Speaker 2: with George Soros, made a lot of money working closely

1151
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 2: with George Soros.

1152
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:37,839
Speaker 4: He's described in this New York Times story as a

1153
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:39,359
Speaker 4: protege of George Soro.

1154
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, and I think that that is quite accurate.

1155
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,360
Speaker 2: So that's the other part about this that is quite funny.

1156
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 2: I mean, he is definitely a Wall Street figure, but

1157
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 2: I do think he's been somewhat open to at least

1158
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 2: some use of tariffs, and you know, sees that as

1159
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 2: a as a path forward, even as he because he's

1160
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 2: such a familiar face on Walsh Street, has been able

1161
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 2: to kind of calm the waters of that of you know,

1162
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 2: business executives and Wall Street executives to say like, yeah,

1163
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 2: he's not going to go too crazy with the full

1164
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 2: tear off situation.

1165
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's really important, I think because part of

1166
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:15,280
Speaker 4: the reporting about how Trump was looking at this decision

1167
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 4: is that he was worried about spooking the markets because

1168
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,919
Speaker 4: he takes that as a referendum on the president, right.

1169
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 4: We know that he talks about it all the time,

1170
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 4: and so he was worried that someone completely out of

1171
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 4: the blue would be disruptive to the markets and would

1172
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:32,800
Speaker 4: thus make him look bad. So it's I guess logical

1173
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,359
Speaker 4: through that framework of what Donald Trump was thinking for.

1174
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 4: And as The Times reports in recent months, mister Bessntt

1175
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 4: has pitched a quote three three three plan that would

1176
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 4: aim for three percent economic gross growth, reduced the budget

1177
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 4: deficit to three percent of gross domestic product, and increase

1178
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 4: domestic oil production by three million barrels a day. He

1179
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:51,760
Speaker 4: also came up with an idea, and this is interesting,

1180
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,319
Speaker 4: that would allow the president to essentially sideline the chair

1181
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 4: of the Federal Reserve. Although he's back down from that

1182
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 4: proposal in the face of opposition, that obviously would be

1183
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 4: music Donald Trump's here, and you can kind of understand

1184
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 4: why Bessett was able to have a great pitch to Trump.

1185
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1186
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 2: Absolutely, so that'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

1187
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 2: And you know, we've talked to Jeff Stein, great economics

1188
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,360
Speaker 2: supporter for the Washington Post. He has been of the

1189
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 2: opinion that, you know, when Trump says consistently we want

1190
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 2: to have across the board tariffs, that you should take

1191
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 2: him seriously at that, and that you know, and the

1192
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 2: implications of that, which would likely raise prices kind of

1193
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 2: across the board and be quite inflationary. But they have

1194
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:33,399
Speaker 2: already been looking at what sort of powers they could

1195
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:35,839
Speaker 2: use just at the executive level without having to go

1196
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 2: through Congress to implement something approaching and across the board tariff.

1197
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 2: So in any case, we'll see how that all plays out.

1198
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 2: But Treasury very significant, very high powered, very influential. So

1199
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 2: that was a really important pick that was made. There

1200
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 2: another one that this one is very kind of like

1201
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 2: under the radar, super powerful and important in government, and

1202
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 2: that's the head of the Office of Management and Budget

1203
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 2: RUSS Vote of Project twenty twenty five. No less has

1204
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 2: been tagged in for that one. We can put B

1205
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 2: six up on the screen. Trump's pick to lead his

1206
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 2: budget off his Mother Jones rights. Wants to use it

1207
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 2: to deliver on Maga's big dreams. Emily, why don't you

1208
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 2: break this one down for us what Russ is all about,

1209
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 2: what his deal is.

1210
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, so Verus is also kind of the tea party

1211
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 4: to Maga pipeline. He's someone who I actually as an

1212
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 4: ideological conservative like a lot. But if you're looking at

1213
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 4: the screen the Mother Jones taggling, there is quote, we

1214
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 4: want to put them in trauma. Russ Vote has said

1215
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 4: of federal workers, Yes, that.

1216
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 5: Is Actually he's an ideological warrior.

1217
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, way way hardcore on some of those questions, and

1218
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 4: has spent actually the last several years he has something

1219
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 4: called the Center for Renewing America figuring out what the

1220
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 4: blueprint for whether it was DeSantis or Trump or someone else,

1221
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 4: what that would look like. And so he did contribute

1222
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 4: to Project twenty twenty five and is among the people

1223
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 4: who were leading this charge that were saying the next

1224
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 4: Republican president as like the rarest opportunity to just go wild.

1225
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 4: Like everything that the conservative movement said that it wanted

1226
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 4: to do in the nineteen eighties under the Reagan Revolution,

1227
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 4: it has never come to fruition. And that is because

1228
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 4: the swamp has like attached itself to the conservative movement.

1229
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 4: So let's just blow it all up, and here's the

1230
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 4: outline to do that. And so Russ is like an

1231
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 4: absolute leader in that movement and a very like hardcore

1232
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 4: ideologue in that movement, which will run a clip in

1233
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 4: just a second getting to that. But yeah, if you

1234
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 4: listen to that as a client show, this was predicted

1235
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 4: by someone at this table crystals.

1236
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 2: Interesting, Well, I mean you weren't buying the Trump has

1237
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 2: nothing to do with Project twenty twenty five and has

1238
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 2: no interest in Project twenty twenty five.

1239
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 11: Yeah.

1240
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, people like Russ have spent millions of

1241
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 4: dollars over the last couple of years trying to figure

1242
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 4: out what this would look like. He's put tons of

1243
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 4: energy into what this would look like. And if you're

1244
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 4: a federal worker, yes, you should be pretty frightened that

1245
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 4: Russ vote is now in this position because as the

1246
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 4: head of the om B, which he was under Trump's

1247
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 4: first administration, you are in charge of implementing the budget.

1248
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 4: You're in charge of thinking about the budget, implementing the budget,

1249
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 4: and so you're looking, I mean, that's where Doge like,

1250
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 4: that's all of those recommendations, That's where Russ can go

1251
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 4: and implement them. And he has concrete plans that he's

1252
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 4: talked with lawyers about that he's spent time in think

1253
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 4: tank circles conceiving of over the last few years. So

1254
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 4: he's hardcore, very.

1255
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 2: Much, and he's one of the big thinkers behind quote

1256
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 2: unquote Schedule F yes, which would allow which would strip

1257
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 2: a lot of the job protections away from vast loss

1258
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 2: of the federal government, basically making it easier to decimate

1259
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 2: these agencies and you know, fire a whole bunch of

1260
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 2: workers and reinstall loyalists to Trump and loyalists to the agenda.

1261
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 2: We do have this like hidden camera video actually of

1262
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 2: russfo talking about some of his priorities. And this was

1263
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 2: before Trump was elected. So he's also talking about his

1264
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 2: relationship to Project twenty twenty five and saying he says

1265
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 2: actively like, yeah, don't worry about the fact that Trump

1266
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 2: is downplaying this obviously is just a branding issue for him.

1267
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 5: But don't worry. We're in good stead.

1268
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 2: We're in position to implement everything that we want to,

1269
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 2: which you know, anyone with three brain cells could see

1270
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 2: at the time. In any case, let's take a listen

1271
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 2: to a little bit of what Russ has to say

1272
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 2: about what he wants to accomplish.

1273
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 18: He talks about rape, incest in life, and mother all.

1274
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 18: I don't actually believe in those exceptions. I want to

1275
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 18: get to abolition, but I also we got to win elections,

1276
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 18: and so I want to get as far as we

1277
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 18: possibly can.

1278
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 4: His view of who should be an American, So I

1279
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 4: want to.

1280
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 18: Make sure that we can say we are a Christian nation.

1281
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,120
Speaker 18: And my viewpoint is mostly that I would probably be

1282
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 18: Christian nationism. That's pretty close to Christian nationalism. Can we

1283
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 18: if we're going to have legal immigration, can we get

1284
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 18: people that actually believe in Christianity? Is that something or

1285
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 18: do we have to have you know, we're not allowed

1286
01:00:57,720 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 18: to have ask questions about Sharia law?

1287
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 12: What could we see America looking like?

1288
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 11: I guess I mean in.

1289
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 18: An ideal world, I mean, I think we could save

1290
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 18: the country in the sense of you have the largest

1291
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 18: deportation in history.

1292
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 4: And even pornography.

1293
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 18: We'd have a national ban on pornography if we're good.

1294
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 5: Right, national ban on pornography here we.

1295
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 4: Come, which by the way, he can't do at home.

1296
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 2: You never know, but you know, obviously, as you said,

1297
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 2: I'm only what comes across there is. This is an

1298
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 2: ideological warrior and across the board hard right. You know,

1299
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 2: he says, I get Trump's got to take talk about

1300
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 2: these exceptions for rape, incests of the life of the

1301
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 2: mother when it comes to abortion.

1302
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 5: I don't actually.

1303
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 2: Support those exceptions, but what are you going to do?

1304
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 2: You gotta win elections. You know, he talks about let's

1305
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 2: have the largest deportation in history. Just very very ideological here,

1306
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 2: and you know that is significant when you have someone in,

1307
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 2: like you said, a position that is quite consequential in

1308
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 2: terms of the budget. He's also, I believe, correct me

1309
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 2: if I'm wrong. I'm only ben of the thinkers who

1310
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 2: has supported this idea that even if Congress appropriates funds,

1311
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 2: there's no obligation for the executive to spend them. Yes,

1312
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 2: that means that you would have unilateral ability to cut

1313
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 2: whatever you want. So contrary to this notion that what

1314
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 2: Elon and Vivik are doing is like this make work project.

1315
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 2: On the contrary, if there actually is the power for

1316
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,919
Speaker 2: the executive unilaterally to cut you know, slash those safe

1317
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 2: safety net programs and everything in between, you know, Russ

1318
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 2: would be we would expect Russ to be very involved

1319
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 2: in helping to implement those cuts throughout the federal government.

1320
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 2: So having someone like that in this position is quite

1321
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 2: const Council.

1322
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 4: That is such an important point. This is becoming a

1323
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 4: really raging debate on the right because people are starting

1324
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 4: to realize that they actually have the power to do this.

1325
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 4: It's not like an abstract conversation anymore about whether the

1326
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 4: president can override congressional expenditures or congressional prescriptions for spending.

1327
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 4: Basically because of the separation of powers. So can the

1328
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 4: president say this is a congressionally passed mandate, we're not

1329
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 4: doing it though, that that's an enormous power. And just

1330
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 4: to put a like bow on this conversation, russ vote

1331
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 4: is not just like a Pambonde type person who understands

1332
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 4: the temperature and will go along with the temperature.

1333
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 5: She's a finger in the wind type exactly.

1334
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's an architect of this on an ideological level,

1335
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 4: and you know most of his philosophy that he'll be

1336
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 4: able to implement and that what was like really guiding

1337
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 4: him be super against DEI spending. He'll be super against

1338
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 4: like the waste, fraud and abuse that you hear Elon m.

1339
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:31,440
Speaker 4: Vivek talking about like he's a a Tea Party kind

1340
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 4: of limited government guy he was around in those times

1341
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 4: and like that informs it. But he's now very maga

1342
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 4: as well. So it's about the sort of reforming the

1343
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 4: American government along the lines of what the conservative movements

1344
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 4: like fantasy has looked like because they feel like they've

1345
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 4: never had the power and the will to actually implement it,

1346
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 4: so hugely consequential appointment, to your point, like a little

1347
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 4: under the radar, but a very consequential appointment for Trump loyalists.

1348
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 2: And I think to me, what we're seeing taking shape

1349
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 2: is a very different Trump administration than what we saw

1350
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, even as Russ was in the similar

1351
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 2: position last time. He was in the same position last

1352
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 2: time around. But in the off season, you know, they

1353
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 2: have been preparing, They've been thinking about, Okay, what what

1354
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 2: did we learned last time? What stood in our way

1355
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 2: of accomplishing our most maximalist goals? And even though you know,

1356
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 2: Trump didn't even get fifty percent of the vote, he

1357
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 2: feels that he has this overwhelming mandate to blow everything up.

1358
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 2: And so, you know, I think contrary to a lot

1359
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 2: of the analysis that you saw from from Wall Street

1360
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 2: and even from you know, some Trump allies, even from

1361
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 2: his own transition Coachair Howard Lutnik, that like all these

1362
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 2: things he's saying, like he's not really going to put

1363
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 2: RFK junior at ages, he's not really going to do

1364
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 2: across the board tariffs, He's not really going to blow

1365
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 2: up the federal bureauercy. He's not really going to get

1366
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 2: rid of the Department of Education. I think that the

1367
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,040
Speaker 2: things he said on the trail, including you know e

1368
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 2: lun Musk saying I'm going to cut two trillion dollars

1369
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 2: from the budget. Now, is he going to be able

1370
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 2: to cut two trillion when that is more than all

1371
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:09,960
Speaker 2: of the discretionary budget in the entire federal goverment budget.

1372
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 5: Probably not.

1373
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 2: But I think you should take seriously the things the

1374
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 2: maximalist plans that Trump laid out on the campaign trail,

1375
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 2: because there have been people like russ Vote out there

1376
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 2: in the off season thinking about, Okay, if we get

1377
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 2: another chance next time around, what are we going to

1378
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 2: start with. An emblematic of that is, you know, they

1379
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 2: didn't start going down this schedule F path until the

1380
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 2: very end of Trump's term last time run, so there

1381
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:35,440
Speaker 2: wasn't really time to like get it spun up and

1382
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 2: get it implemented. This time, they're coming out of the

1383
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 2: gates with the Matt gates, perhaps withal No coming out

1384
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 2: of the gates with those plans in place, and have

1385
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:51,439
Speaker 2: thought a lot about, okay, what can we do where

1386
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 2: we don't even need to consult Congress, What can we

1387
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 2: do to make sure that any institution, whether it was

1388
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 2: the you know, the military, or the Senate or the

1389
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 2: dog that stood in our way last time around, what

1390
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 2: can we do to make sure those roadblocks are out

1391
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:07,160
Speaker 2: of the way this time? And you know, I think

1392
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:09,360
Speaker 2: we should take seriously the things that Trump said on

1393
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 2: the campaign trail.

1394
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, just the last point on the whole

1395
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:14,919
Speaker 4: rest vote thing is we talked about this last week.

1396
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 4: I do think that there's going to be an impulse

1397
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 4: to overreach because you know the sense that there's a

1398
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 4: mandate and the Aract and people are all on board

1399
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 4: with gutting the bureaucracy. In the abstract, that may be true,

1400
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:28,920
Speaker 4: I mean, and maybe like people just got to go

1401
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:31,640
Speaker 4: and shake up Washington and drain the swamp. But when

1402
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 4: it's actually playing out, yeah, you know, that'll be another story.

1403
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 4: And again, I think people like russ vote, and I

1404
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 4: know people that are like in that orbit, they are

1405
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 4: stealing themselves for just like making those hard decisions that

1406
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 4: won't necessarily be responsive to public pressure or public opinion.

1407
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 4: And Donald Trump He's another story. I mean, to the

1408
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 4: extent he interferes with what's happening at omb. You know,

1409
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 4: he'll make sure that they're doing what they want to do.

1410
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 2: But he also doesn't have to run for reelections Act anymore,

1411
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 2: so he doesn't really even have to care at all

1412
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 2: about public opinion. And you know, I mean we saw

1413
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 2: this last time around as well. After he's elected in

1414
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen and tries to implement, you know, some of

1415
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 2: the aggressive anti immigrant policies that he had run on,

1416
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 2: there was a huge backlash and actually being pro immigration

1417
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 2: was like never more popular than it was under Donald

1418
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 2: Trump because when people saw what this meant in reality,

1419
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:28,920
Speaker 2: when they saw kids, you know, crying and separated from

1420
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:32,280
Speaker 2: their parents and orphaned and just the human cruelty that

1421
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 2: that entailed, the public had no stomach for that. So,

1422
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 2: you know, it's one thing to to theoretically, you know,

1423
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 2: it sounds good, Okay, get the waste road and abuse

1424
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 2: sound of government, all right, that sounds good. Who doesn't

1425
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:45,920
Speaker 2: support that? But when it's like, oh, and now you

1426
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 2: know you don't have a with budget to be able

1427
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 2: to feed baby's formula, then it turns into a very

1428
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 2: different matter.

1429
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 5: When the rubber hits the road.

1430
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 4: Speaking of the rubber hitting the road, we couldn't do

1431
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 4: the show today without giving you a little taste of

1432
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 4: what Matt Gates has been up to in the last

1433
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:07,000
Speaker 4: I don't know, Crystal seventy two hours. He's a busy man.

1434
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, moves fast on the next thing.

1435
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:13,360
Speaker 4: Mossas on the next thing. Immediately after withdrawing basically from

1436
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:17,559
Speaker 4: the Attorney General confirmation process, he joined Cameo, as one

1437
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 4: does in.

1438
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 5: The scenario in these times.

1439
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 4: Yes, because he will not be returning to the House seat.

1440
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 4: He actually won reelection, so he technically could have he

1441
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:29,479
Speaker 4: resigned from this Congress, but not from the next Congress,

1442
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 4: so he technically could have taken a seat back, and

1443
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 4: we wanted to, but he doesn't want to, Maybe because

1444
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:35,879
Speaker 4: he wants to run for Florida governor. Or maybe because

1445
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty four in the United States of America,

1446
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,120
Speaker 4: it's way more fun to be on cameo, so.

1447
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 5: More fun to be an influencer.

1448
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:45,839
Speaker 4: Take a look at Matt Gates talking to a longtime

1449
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 4: patriot on Cameo.

1450
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:50,839
Speaker 19: Hey, Lisa Kovak, it's your favorite former Congressman, Matt Gates.

1451
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 19: I just wanted to thank you for being a longtime patriot,

1452
01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 19: for supporting President Trump through thick and thin, and I

1453
01:08:57,360 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 19: know you were bummed out with the news broke that

1454
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 19: I wouldn't be the next to Church General. We did

1455
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:03,680
Speaker 19: get a great replacement in Pambondy. She's going to do

1456
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 19: an awesome job. You have nothing to worry about, but hey, listen,

1457
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:08,640
Speaker 19: I'm still going to be in the fight for you

1458
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 19: and your family. And I know things are tough right

1459
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 19: now dealing with your car and Bruce, and I wish

1460
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 19: him a very speedy recovery. So next time you visit Florida,

1461
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:21,360
Speaker 19: as everyone should do very frequently, make sure to pay

1462
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:24,360
Speaker 19: a visit with your lovely aunt Kathy. Stop buy and saylo.

1463
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 19: Also salo to your mother Carol for me, and have

1464
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:31,679
Speaker 19: a merry Christmas, have a great Thanksgiving, enjoy your family.

1465
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 19: And this is just such an exciting time to be

1466
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 19: an American. We've got the House, we've got the Senate,

1467
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:40,240
Speaker 19: We've got Donald Trump and the presidency. We're going to

1468
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:42,839
Speaker 19: actually fix the problems. We're going to secure the border,

1469
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,519
Speaker 19: clean up our streets, get the economy roaring again.

1470
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:46,879
Speaker 1: So we've got a lot.

1471
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 4: To be thankful for. I think he sons going it's

1472
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:52,400
Speaker 4: five hundred dollars plus. That's what's listed as the price

1473
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 4: right now.

1474
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:55,320
Speaker 2: It was originally two point fifty. You know, I guess

1475
01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:57,800
Speaker 2: demand surged and he had up the price.

1476
01:09:57,840 --> 01:09:58,080
Speaker 12: There.

1477
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:02,280
Speaker 4: He has a twelve review all five stars, so he's

1478
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 4: he's most popular for a pep talk and roasts. So

1479
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:09,479
Speaker 4: roath if you're if you're interested Matt Gates and you

1480
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 4: have five hundred plus dollars lying around. One of the

1481
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 4: funny things I think is is him being excited about

1482
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 4: the Pam Bondi pick, because one of the things we've

1483
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 4: talked about this before that Matt Gates is actually very

1484
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 4: good on is like swampiness. He's completely consistent on like

1485
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 4: congressional stock trading, on foreign entanglements, on all of those

1486
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 4: like serious and important things that nobody else wants to

1487
01:10:32,280 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 4: talk about. Are it takes seriously. Pambondi of course is

1488
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:37,679
Speaker 4: now coming from work as a cutter lobbyist, and Matt

1489
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 4: Gates is like, excellent pick. It's just you know, that's

1490
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:41,840
Speaker 4: that's maga world.

1491
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, that is maga world.

1492
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 20: No.

1493
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:45,439
Speaker 2: I mean, I think with Pam Bondy in there, any

1494
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:47,679
Speaker 2: hope that there's going to be like increased anti drust

1495
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 2: action where like that's definitely not happening.

1496
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 5: Whatsoever.

1497
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:53,960
Speaker 4: Maybe on tech, it's possible. It's possible that on like

1498
01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:55,719
Speaker 4: Google or something something.

1499
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,080
Speaker 2: Where the scene is like an ideological adversary.

1500
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 5: But even there, because even Bill Barr did that.

1501
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 2: Even there, though you know all the tech people also

1502
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 2: bet the NITA Trump like, they also have done what

1503
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:07,440
Speaker 2: they need to do to get in his good graces.

1504
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:10,000
Speaker 2: So I don't expect it there either, but you never

1505
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:13,599
Speaker 2: know what direction they'll ultimately go in. I did think

1506
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,240
Speaker 2: it was Notewhether. I'm curious your thoughts, Emily. I did

1507
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 2: think it was noteworthy that Gates decided to pull out

1508
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:22,759
Speaker 2: of this process and basically was like, look, Trump. According

1509
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 2: to the reporting, Trump came to and was like, look,

1510
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:25,360
Speaker 2: you just don't have the votes.

1511
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:26,120
Speaker 5: Now.

1512
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 2: Why is that significant? Well, because it's an indication that

1513
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:31,640
Speaker 2: they're not just going to go to the mat and

1514
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:35,160
Speaker 2: try to do recess appointments for all of these picks.

1515
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:37,320
Speaker 2: And you know, Gates is not the only one who

1516
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 2: could potentially face trouble getting confirmed. RFK Junior I think

1517
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 2: is a question mark, although I think there's decent chance

1518
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:47,439
Speaker 2: he'll get through. Heag Seth is the other one that

1519
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:50,160
Speaker 2: I would say is a question mark at this point,

1520
01:11:50,160 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 2: there may be others as well. In fact, actually the

1521
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 2: Department of Labor head who's pro union Republican might be

1522
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:56,799
Speaker 2: weirdly enough.

1523
01:11:56,760 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 5: Might weirdly enough be a problem.

1524
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:00,360
Speaker 2: Though I suspect that enough Democrats would cross vote for

1525
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:02,720
Speaker 2: her that that would mitigate any problem that she might

1526
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:04,920
Speaker 2: have from the right wing with regard to her confirmation.

1527
01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:09,880
Speaker 2: But you know, it was noteworthy to me that it

1528
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 2: was effectively a sign of backing down from their most

1529
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 2: aggressive posture of basically like, you're going to accept whatever

1530
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 2: nominees we're going to put up, you're going to vote

1531
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 2: for him, and if you aren't willing to vote for him,

1532
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 2: we're just going to shove him through in a recess appointment.

1533
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:25,600
Speaker 2: So I found that to be an important indication of

1534
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:26,680
Speaker 2: how these things are going to play on.

1535
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:28,679
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I think that's a good point. And with Gates,

1536
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 4: I think it really underscores that the reason. I mean,

1537
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 4: it's true he didn't have the votes. This was not

1538
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:36,559
Speaker 4: forty chess to the extent that I can tell, It

1539
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:38,640
Speaker 4: wasn't like this brilliant plot to get Matt Gates in

1540
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:40,599
Speaker 4: a better position to run for Florida governor. We can

1541
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 4: actually put b nine on the screen. This is Matt

1542
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:46,600
Speaker 4: Gates's resignation letter to Mike Johnson, saying basically, I'm not

1543
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:48,599
Speaker 4: going to take the oath of office for the same

1544
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:50,600
Speaker 4: position in the one hundred and nineteenth Congress, so that

1545
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:54,240
Speaker 4: would be when that happens in January. So I don't

1546
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:56,720
Speaker 4: think that this was, you know, an attempt to set

1547
01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 4: him up and say, you know, we're just gonna we

1548
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:01,519
Speaker 4: know he's not going to get through, but we'll elevate

1549
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 4: him and then he can have a glide path to

1550
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 4: some other position.

1551
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:07,439
Speaker 2: Well, the other theory was also like, oh, he'll take

1552
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:09,559
Speaker 2: the heat off the other ones and make it easier

1553
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 2: for them to get confirmed.

1554
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:13,639
Speaker 4: Which I think actually may partially be part of the calculation.

1555
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:15,479
Speaker 4: I don't know. To me, it makes sense that, like

1556
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:17,640
Speaker 4: they realized it would be a really tough one. You know,

1557
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 4: Donald Trump would love to have Matt Gates as Attorney General,

1558
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 4: There's no question about it. And I think part of

1559
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:23,800
Speaker 4: it was he wanted to smoke out the senators and

1560
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:26,479
Speaker 4: sort of see where certain people like Mitch McConnell is

1561
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:28,280
Speaker 4: a really good example. Reportedly one of the people who

1562
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:30,360
Speaker 4: would not have been voting for Matt Gates. There's no

1563
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:33,200
Speaker 4: surprise about that at all. But I think Trump partially

1564
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:35,720
Speaker 4: wanted to like test, first of all, John Thune in

1565
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:39,599
Speaker 4: his first like literal week as a Senate majority leader

1566
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 4: or he will be well, yeah, a Senate majority leader.

1567
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 4: And so he partially wanted to test the waters on that.

1568
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 4: He wanted to see what Gates could do if it

1569
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:52,360
Speaker 4: was possible. But then also he now can say, oh,

1570
01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:56,400
Speaker 4: Mitch McConnell, you weren't voting for Matt Gates. Okay, that's interesting.

1571
01:13:56,880 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 2: And I know guys coming in in Utah was another

1572
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:03,800
Speaker 2: Curtis right, who's replacing Mitt Romney in the Senate, was

1573
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:05,519
Speaker 2: another one who reportedly was not going to vote for

1574
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 2: Matt Gates.

1575
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:08,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, this important piece of information for the Trump people

1576
01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:08,360
Speaker 5: to know.

1577
01:14:08,479 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 4: And I think the other thing to just cap that

1578
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:13,800
Speaker 4: is and the point that you're making is this is

1579
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:16,280
Speaker 4: the most important position that Donald Trump sees it. Like

1580
01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:18,719
Speaker 4: if if this was the State's apartment, I think Donald

1581
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:21,680
Speaker 4: Trump and his allies might have kept going, even though

1582
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:24,640
Speaker 4: that's a hugely consequential position because they want to have

1583
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:28,040
Speaker 4: everybody in place at the Department of Justice on day one.

1584
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:30,360
Speaker 4: They do not want there to be any time wasted

1585
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:33,040
Speaker 4: with the DOJ. That is the one agency that they

1586
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 4: are laser focused on more than any other, because that

1587
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:38,760
Speaker 4: is when Donald Trump says, I am your retribution, that

1588
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:44,080
Speaker 4: is firmly directed at the DOJ. So my sense of

1589
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 4: this is that they realized it would be uncertain what

1590
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:49,880
Speaker 4: would happen with Gates through the holidays and then into January,

1591
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:52,720
Speaker 4: and just like, this is not worth our time at all.

1592
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 4: We need to have somebody who will be confirmed and

1593
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 4: can start saying I'm hiring this person, this person, this person,

1594
01:14:58,200 --> 01:14:59,320
Speaker 4: this is what we're going to do on day one,

1595
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:01,960
Speaker 4: et cetera, et ceter So, yeah, they want to go.

1596
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:03,439
Speaker 5: I think it's also worth noting.

1597
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:06,679
Speaker 2: I mean, I think Gates as a human being genuinely sucks,

1598
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:11,120
Speaker 2: but he does it does actually have some more heterodox

1599
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:14,040
Speaker 2: positions when it comes to, certainly to anti trust economics

1600
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:17,280
Speaker 2: in these things. Pam Bondi has none of them. And

1601
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 2: so the fact that Trump found each of these people

1602
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:23,439
Speaker 2: to be sort of like equally worthy candidates for attorney

1603
01:15:23,479 --> 01:15:26,280
Speaker 2: general tells you that it has nothing to do with

1604
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:28,519
Speaker 2: how they think about corporate power or whatever. It has

1605
01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:30,559
Speaker 2: to do with one thing, and one thing alone. Are

1606
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:32,960
Speaker 2: they loyal to Donald J. Trump, right, are they going

1607
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:35,799
Speaker 2: to do what he wants them to do in that position?

1608
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:39,520
Speaker 2: That was always and will always be the only qualification,

1609
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:41,800
Speaker 2: the only thing that really matters to him in terms

1610
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:44,679
Speaker 2: of putting in this position when he says, I will

1611
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:48,160
Speaker 2: be your retribution, Like, who if you were out there

1612
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:50,560
Speaker 2: in the world and you've been a Donald Trump adversary,

1613
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:54,040
Speaker 2: critic whatever, like who should be worried right now?

1614
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:55,320
Speaker 15: Yeah?

1615
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:58,120
Speaker 4: I would say the DOJ is probably anyone who's like

1616
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:01,559
Speaker 4: a career at the DOJ. They've been there for decades

1617
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:05,200
Speaker 4: and we're working on indictments against Donald Trump, where people

1618
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:09,160
Speaker 4: who were working on like Face Act stuff against anti

1619
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:12,760
Speaker 4: abortion protesters like that stuff is going to be very

1620
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:15,400
Speaker 4: clear gimid retribution in terms of also like where.

1621
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:17,639
Speaker 5: They investigations aggress so will be targeted.

1622
01:16:18,680 --> 01:16:21,479
Speaker 4: I bet? I bet? I mean, well, it's kind of

1623
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:24,120
Speaker 4: interesting because some people have said there'll be more scrutiny

1624
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 4: on Hunter Biden and Joe Biden's relationship with Hunter Biden,

1625
01:16:27,439 --> 01:16:30,400
Speaker 4: but then Trump has he has this weird thing where

1626
01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 4: he didn't go.

1627
01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:33,040
Speaker 5: After remember, and I kind of doubt that, to be

1628
01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:33,640
Speaker 5: honest with you.

1629
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:37,479
Speaker 4: It's interesting though, I mean, I don't know. It's also

1630
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 4: the other place I would have said is the tack leaders, who,

1631
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:42,080
Speaker 4: to your point have kind of bent the knee. Well,

1632
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:44,720
Speaker 4: a lot of what Trump World would have wanted to

1633
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:47,080
Speaker 4: do in twenty twenty one twenty twenty two was go

1634
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:49,920
Speaker 4: after those tach leaders like Mark Zuckerberg, and Zuckerberg has

1635
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:53,720
Speaker 4: said he regrets listening to the former FBI people and

1636
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:56,320
Speaker 4: the FBI people. Mark Zuckerberg famously met with the FBI

1637
01:16:56,400 --> 01:17:00,200
Speaker 4: and had this conversation before the Biden laptop drops. Hunter

1638
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:03,240
Speaker 4: buying laptop drops is saying, you know, expect something that's

1639
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 4: going to look like and we now know they already

1640
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:07,200
Speaker 4: had the laptop, but that's going to look like Russian disinformation.

1641
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:10,599
Speaker 4: And Zuckerberg was like, oh okay. So when the laptop

1642
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:12,560
Speaker 4: story broke, he was eager.

1643
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:14,559
Speaker 5: To subcribe to see it that way, right.

1644
01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:17,000
Speaker 4: And so that previously, I mean, there would have been

1645
01:17:17,040 --> 01:17:19,640
Speaker 4: investigations of those guys, there's no question about it. But

1646
01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:21,400
Speaker 4: I think instead is what you're going to see, these

1647
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:25,640
Speaker 4: investigations of people who were involved in Russia collusion. And

1648
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:27,800
Speaker 4: even though some of those people have already been investigated,

1649
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 4: I think you'll see even more scrutiny anybody who, like

1650
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:35,120
Speaker 4: anybody who was leaking to the press during that, you know,

1651
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:38,000
Speaker 4: Peter Struck, Lisa Page. I know those are old names

1652
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,680
Speaker 4: and it sounds like but I think that's like these

1653
01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:43,040
Speaker 4: random people that were parts of that. I think is

1654
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:46,479
Speaker 4: especially going to be room for targeting.

1655
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:51,320
Speaker 2: And what about Alvin Braggle Sitia, James, Fannie Willis.

1656
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:54,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, probably all of the above. And Fannie Will

1657
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:57,160
Speaker 4: seems to have the most spotted record of all of

1658
01:17:57,200 --> 01:18:00,120
Speaker 4: them in terms of like soft corruption, So that'll be

1659
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:01,240
Speaker 4: a lot of fun for them.

1660
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:03,760
Speaker 2: I think what you're pointing to as well, and what

1661
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:07,639
Speaker 2: we're discussing with, you know, Google Zuckerberg, et cetera, bending

1662
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 2: the knee in advance, and you know he saw a

1663
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:10,960
Speaker 2: similar dynamic.

1664
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:13,120
Speaker 5: With Jeff Bezos of the Washing Post, like oh, we're.

1665
01:18:12,920 --> 01:18:16,000
Speaker 2: Not gonna we're not gonna endoor, You're you're all good here,

1666
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:20,080
Speaker 2: and actually even getting in a little Twitter exchange back

1667
01:18:20,120 --> 01:18:23,880
Speaker 2: and forth where Elon had suggested that Jeff Bezos was

1668
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:28,439
Speaker 2: saying negative things about from potential victory and Bezos jumps on, no, no, no,

1669
01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:31,680
Speaker 2: that's not true. Yes, and you know also fits with

1670
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:34,880
Speaker 2: Joe and Mika making their trek down tomorrow. Lago and

1671
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:37,439
Speaker 2: Steve Bannon had said, Now whether this has any veracity,

1672
01:18:37,479 --> 01:18:39,639
Speaker 2: we don't know, but he had said that the DJ

1673
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:43,520
Speaker 2: is going to go after MSNBC hosts. He named specifically

1674
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:45,599
Speaker 2: Ari Melburg. But you would think that, you know, Joe

1675
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:47,400
Speaker 2: and Mika could potentially be at the top.

1676
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:47,840
Speaker 5: Of that list.

1677
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 2: And so I think a lot Ari Melburg I was

1678
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:53,760
Speaker 2: a random one to be it that, Like, I don't

1679
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:54,200
Speaker 2: know why.

1680
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:56,640
Speaker 4: I feel like ur he covers a lot of the.

1681
01:18:56,760 --> 01:19:00,320
Speaker 2: The legal stuff, like that's his beat. He's you know, former,

1682
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:03,120
Speaker 2: he like goes in on that. And I think he's

1683
01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:05,439
Speaker 2: even had I want to say, he's had Bannon on

1684
01:19:05,479 --> 01:19:07,639
Speaker 2: the show and they've like fall with each other. Anyway,

1685
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:11,080
Speaker 2: apparently Steve Bannon has a grievance, particularly.

1686
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:12,040
Speaker 5: With Ari Melburn whatever.

1687
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 2: But you know, I think a lot of the work

1688
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:19,040
Speaker 2: is already done in terms of just having you know,

1689
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 2: the threat of Matt Gates, the threat of a Trump

1690
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 2: loyalist out there to go after people with investigations or

1691
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:28,360
Speaker 2: to hurt their businesses in the case of Jeff Bezos,

1692
01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 2: who has a lot of business with the government. You know,

1693
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:33,640
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of sort of like compliance in

1694
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:36,800
Speaker 2: advance to try to get on Trump's good side and

1695
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:39,719
Speaker 2: try to avoid the worst of the federal government being

1696
01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:43,920
Speaker 2: weaponized against you. So in any case, obviously that position

1697
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:45,160
Speaker 2: will be really consequential.

1698
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 5: I did.

1699
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:49,599
Speaker 2: The other piece that I was curious about is whether

1700
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:52,360
Speaker 2: Hegseth seems to me like he would be the other

1701
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:56,760
Speaker 2: one that would be difficult potentially to get confirmed. Also, reportedly,

1702
01:19:57,080 --> 01:20:00,000
Speaker 2: Trump was pissed that Hesth hadn't been upfront with him

1703
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:04,599
Speaker 2: about not only the specifics of the allegations, the sexual

1704
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:07,040
Speaker 2: assault allegations against him, but also the fact that he

1705
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:11,519
Speaker 2: had paid some undisclosed some to the woman who accused

1706
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:14,240
Speaker 2: him of rape. Pete denies the charges and put out

1707
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:16,599
Speaker 2: his side of the story. But let me go ahead

1708
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:18,439
Speaker 2: and play for you. You know, this is getting a

1709
01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:21,680
Speaker 2: lot of attention on CNN Dana Bash going back and

1710
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:26,400
Speaker 2: forth with Senator Mark Wayne Mullet about the Pete Hegseeth allegations.

1711
01:20:26,479 --> 01:20:27,519
Speaker 2: Go ahead and take a listen to that.

1712
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:29,599
Speaker 20: I want to just make sure our viewers know what

1713
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:32,640
Speaker 20: that report said that the woman said that when she

1714
01:20:32,720 --> 01:20:35,840
Speaker 20: tried to leave Hegseeth's hotel room, he blocked the door

1715
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:39,120
Speaker 20: ended up on top of her and performed a sexual act.

1716
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:42,880
Speaker 20: She also said that she don't remember saying no to

1717
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:43,720
Speaker 20: a lot.

1718
01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:46,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, go ahead, Dana.

1719
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:48,800
Speaker 21: If we're going to get into that, let's talk about

1720
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:51,200
Speaker 21: the whole police report. Now, I know if you read it,

1721
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:54,559
Speaker 21: and I have definitely read it. First of all, the

1722
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:57,120
Speaker 21: police report, if you look at it, it's very clear

1723
01:20:58,040 --> 01:21:01,839
Speaker 21: that what Pete was saying, the attorney was saying was accurate.

1724
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:03,160
Speaker 5: There was no case here.

1725
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:05,760
Speaker 21: He was falsely accused. If you go back and you

1726
01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:09,360
Speaker 21: read the report, there was two eyewitnesses said that she

1727
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:13,080
Speaker 21: was being the aggressor. Pete wasn't even flirting with her,

1728
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 21: He was flirting with a different girl, and the other

1729
01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:18,559
Speaker 21: girl was trying to flirt with Pete. The Jane Doe

1730
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:21,960
Speaker 21: here that is unmentioned. They also said that she was

1731
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:24,599
Speaker 21: holding his arm as they were leaving, and that Pete

1732
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:28,360
Speaker 21: was intoxicated and the Jane Doe was not. They obviously

1733
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:31,320
Speaker 21: said multiple people said that she was aggressively, to the

1734
01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:34,800
Speaker 21: point of aggressively use the word aggressively, flirting towards him

1735
01:21:35,080 --> 01:21:36,120
Speaker 21: when they were in the court.

1736
01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:40,320
Speaker 5: Senator, Senator, the hotel staff. Senator, Well, I'm just saying

1737
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:42,439
Speaker 5: that this wasn't.

1738
01:21:42,360 --> 01:21:46,400
Speaker 20: I wasn't done. I wasn't done. I wasn't done. You're

1739
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:49,799
Speaker 20: giving his side, and it was definitely. The police report

1740
01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:52,880
Speaker 20: is definitely what she said and what he said. You're

1741
01:21:52,920 --> 01:21:55,639
Speaker 20: absolutely right. I hadn't gotten there. But I appreciate you

1742
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:58,680
Speaker 20: giving that other side for me. So I guess that

1743
01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:03,320
Speaker 20: just kind of answers the question, which is from your perspective,

1744
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:06,599
Speaker 20: you believe his part of the story and not hers.

1745
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:13,040
Speaker 21: I absolutely do. He wasn't charged. He wasn't even kind

1746
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:15,559
Speaker 21: of charging this. There was no crime committed. The police

1747
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:18,559
Speaker 21: dropped everything there. It's what's unfortunate in today's world. You can

1748
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:21,439
Speaker 21: be accused of anything, and then if especially if it's

1749
01:22:21,439 --> 01:22:25,439
Speaker 21: something like this, you're automatically assumed to be guilty. If

1750
01:22:25,479 --> 01:22:28,040
Speaker 21: you read the police report from cover to cover, which

1751
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:30,880
Speaker 21: I have and I know every reporter has two, it

1752
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:33,320
Speaker 21: is clear there is nothing there.

1753
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:36,439
Speaker 2: So he's obviously prepared to vote for Pete haag Sath,

1754
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:38,880
Speaker 2: but may not be representative of the entirety of the

1755
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:39,759
Speaker 2: Republican caucus.

1756
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:41,120
Speaker 5: What is your sense there?

1757
01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:45,400
Speaker 2: Only because not just because of these allegations, but in addition,

1758
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:48,559
Speaker 2: I mean, Pete Hagsath is also very ideological guy said

1759
01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:51,000
Speaker 2: that like, for example, womentioned Serman combat Roles, and I

1760
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:54,120
Speaker 2: can imagine there being at least a few Republican Senators

1761
01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 2: who may take issue with that.

1762
01:22:55,439 --> 01:22:58,080
Speaker 4: You take issue that because you know senators obviously aren't

1763
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 4: not for election every two years. But you can imagine

1764
01:23:00,240 --> 01:23:04,120
Speaker 4: being Susan Collins and voting to confirm somebody like Pete

1765
01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:07,640
Speaker 4: Hegseth and then having to run for the election and

1766
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:09,400
Speaker 4: answer for it. Yeah, maybe even not when you're running

1767
01:23:09,400 --> 01:23:11,439
Speaker 4: for reelection, but even when you're just back in Maine

1768
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:14,040
Speaker 4: talking to constituents that you know, it's not going to

1769
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 4: be super easy for somebody like Susan Collins, and he

1770
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:19,400
Speaker 4: can afford to lose a few votes. But you know,

1771
01:23:19,439 --> 01:23:22,000
Speaker 4: if you have a masked affection, or even if you

1772
01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:24,720
Speaker 4: have like five to ten, that's not good enough.

1773
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:26,760
Speaker 2: You can't get there's there will be no Democrat who

1774
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:28,599
Speaker 2: would vote for Pete heag Seth's and you're not going

1775
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:30,040
Speaker 2: to get any crossovers.

1776
01:23:29,560 --> 01:23:32,080
Speaker 4: There, no, no, not at all. And let's also remember

1777
01:23:32,280 --> 01:23:36,559
Speaker 4: that you know, Pete Hegseth is firmly opposed in some

1778
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:38,160
Speaker 4: good ways and in some ways that both of us

1779
01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:40,960
Speaker 4: would probably disagree with, but in some good ways firmly

1780
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 4: opposed to this, like entrenched bureaucracy at the Pentagon, and

1781
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:49,320
Speaker 4: poses a major threat to a lot of that. And

1782
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:53,280
Speaker 4: he's somebody who's from the outside that the defense contractors

1783
01:23:53,320 --> 01:23:56,920
Speaker 4: are not familiar with and not comfortable with. He has

1784
01:23:57,240 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 4: positions on Ukraine that they're definitely not comfortable with, and

1785
01:24:00,479 --> 01:24:03,080
Speaker 4: to that extent, I think there's going to be a

1786
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:05,479
Speaker 4: ton of pressure on people again like Susan Collins, like

1787
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:08,040
Speaker 4: Mitch McConnell, who's not going to want to shake up

1788
01:24:08,040 --> 01:24:11,560
Speaker 4: the Pentagon bureaucracy. He's now staying in the Senate specifically

1789
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:14,400
Speaker 4: to keep the money flowing to Ukraine. Like that is

1790
01:24:14,439 --> 01:24:16,760
Speaker 4: how he has positioned himself. Instead is going to be

1791
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:19,759
Speaker 4: his legacy. So it's not just this. This is something

1792
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:22,920
Speaker 4: that's going to make it a lot more difficult. But

1793
01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:25,920
Speaker 4: that pressure is going to be enormous. And I know

1794
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:28,439
Speaker 4: that he kind of has normally conservative positions on things

1795
01:24:28,439 --> 01:24:31,120
Speaker 4: like Israel and even on of course different questions, but

1796
01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:34,200
Speaker 4: he's he's from outside the Pentagon, and that makes him very,

1797
01:24:34,360 --> 01:24:36,640
Speaker 4: very uncomfortable, And so the lobbyist will be out in

1798
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:40,160
Speaker 4: full force pressuring people unless they think unless they decide

1799
01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:41,600
Speaker 4: they think they can work with the guy, or that

1800
01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:44,000
Speaker 4: you'll be easily manipulated. That doesn't seem to be the

1801
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:46,200
Speaker 4: case so far. It seems like everyone's pretty opposed to him.

1802
01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:48,240
Speaker 4: But the pressure is going to be enormous not to

1803
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:49,479
Speaker 4: confirm Pete haag Seth.

1804
01:24:52,080 --> 01:24:55,240
Speaker 2: So a very interesting pick by Donald Trump for Department

1805
01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:57,680
Speaker 2: of Labor. He found one of the only in existence

1806
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:00,880
Speaker 2: somewhat pro union Republicans. Let's go and put this up

1807
01:25:00,920 --> 01:25:04,639
Speaker 2: on the screen. So some moderate congresswoman she just actually

1808
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:07,760
Speaker 2: lost narrowly re election in the state of Oregon. Her

1809
01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:09,880
Speaker 2: name is Lori chav As de Raymer. I might be

1810
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:13,160
Speaker 2: saying that wrong. I'm sorry if i am, but basically

1811
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:15,400
Speaker 2: I had never heard of her. The one thing that

1812
01:25:15,479 --> 01:25:18,479
Speaker 2: makes her noteworthy is she did actually vote. She was

1813
01:25:18,479 --> 01:25:21,680
Speaker 2: one of very few who voted in favor of the

1814
01:25:21,760 --> 01:25:25,639
Speaker 2: pro Act, which is pro union legislation in the House.

1815
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:28,519
Speaker 2: And the other thing that is noteworthy about her is

1816
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:33,559
Speaker 2: that Sean O'Brien, who is the president of the Teamsters union,

1817
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:36,760
Speaker 2: who spoke at the RNC and decided to keep his

1818
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:39,679
Speaker 2: union out of the endorsement game whatsoever, which was taken

1819
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:43,880
Speaker 2: as a huge victory by Trump and his side. This

1820
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:48,320
Speaker 2: is the candidate that he was ultimately pushing for this job.

1821
01:25:48,720 --> 01:25:52,519
Speaker 2: So you know, it's quite a remarkable, you know, quite

1822
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:56,640
Speaker 2: a remarkable shift to have for Trump specifically, who has

1823
01:25:56,680 --> 01:25:59,599
Speaker 2: been a union buster his whole life, to have someone

1824
01:25:59,680 --> 01:26:04,960
Speaker 2: who's remotely pro union put into this position. And you know,

1825
01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:07,479
Speaker 2: I think it's sort of like a payoff for Sean

1826
01:26:07,479 --> 01:26:08,680
Speaker 2: O'Brien who was tweeting about this.

1827
01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:10,000
Speaker 5: Let's put this up on the screen.

1828
01:26:10,680 --> 01:26:12,840
Speaker 2: He says, thank you Donald Trump for putting American workers

1829
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:16,919
Speaker 2: first by nominating Lori Chaves Dereimer for US Labor Secretary.

1830
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:18,920
Speaker 2: Nearly a year ago, you joined US for Teamsters round

1831
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:20,840
Speaker 2: Table and pledge to listen to workers and find common

1832
01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:23,479
Speaker 2: ground to protect and respect labor in America. You put

1833
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:26,000
Speaker 2: words into action, now let's grow wages and improve working

1834
01:26:26,040 --> 01:26:29,479
Speaker 2: conditions nationwide. Congratulations on your nomination, etc.

1835
01:26:29,880 --> 01:26:30,120
Speaker 5: Etc.

1836
01:26:30,720 --> 01:26:33,800
Speaker 2: So he's certainly taking a victory lap with this, and

1837
01:26:34,240 --> 01:26:37,880
Speaker 2: you know, for me, Emily, it's both really consequential listen

1838
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:39,840
Speaker 2: for the labor movement, which you guys know is one

1839
01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:43,479
Speaker 2: of my key priorities. The labor union used to have

1840
01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:47,320
Speaker 2: bipartisan support, like in the New Deal era and still does.

1841
01:26:47,600 --> 01:26:50,080
Speaker 2: If you go into state legislatures in places that are

1842
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:52,439
Speaker 2: more like pro union friendly. You know, I can speak

1843
01:26:52,479 --> 01:26:55,000
Speaker 2: to the Kentucky legislatures still had at least last I

1844
01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:58,280
Speaker 2: checked some Republicans who would be pro labor, pro union.

1845
01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:02,760
Speaker 2: So it is a flavor that it exists. But you know,

1846
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:04,960
Speaker 2: it is better for the labor movement when you have

1847
01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:08,920
Speaker 2: bipartisan support because one of the problems with the union

1848
01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 2: movement is that since Republicans became just like one hundred

1849
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:15,360
Speaker 2: percent ideologically aligned against it, you had a raft of

1850
01:27:15,520 --> 01:27:17,960
Speaker 2: legislation that was passed in states that made it more

1851
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:21,120
Speaker 2: and more difficult to organize. You had an effort to

1852
01:27:21,160 --> 01:27:23,600
Speaker 2: paint unions as just being sort of like plants for

1853
01:27:23,640 --> 01:27:27,760
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party. So overall, it's really good to have

1854
01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:31,720
Speaker 2: some bipartisanship within the union movement. But I also don't

1855
01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:35,720
Speaker 2: want to overstate what this means, because you know, if

1856
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:38,479
Speaker 2: you were really serious about advancing labor rights in the

1857
01:27:38,479 --> 01:27:40,680
Speaker 2: way that the Biden administration actually was, you would keep,

1858
01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:43,800
Speaker 2: for example, Jennifer Abruzzo in as general counsel at the

1859
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:46,679
Speaker 2: National Labor Relations Board. You would reverse some of the

1860
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:51,040
Speaker 2: incredibly hostile actions that the Trump administration took last time

1861
01:27:51,280 --> 01:27:54,439
Speaker 2: they were in office, the Biden administration they ramped up

1862
01:27:54,439 --> 01:27:57,760
Speaker 2: their enforcement minimum wage, overtime, worker safety. Trump has been

1863
01:27:57,800 --> 01:27:59,720
Speaker 2: on the other side of many of those and when

1864
01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:03,880
Speaker 2: the most most consequential pieces is that the Biden administration

1865
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:08,080
Speaker 2: has pushed to make it easier to classify contractors like

1866
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:12,360
Speaker 2: those Amazon drivers as employees, which has really aided union

1867
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:15,840
Speaker 2: drives specifically that apply to the team stirs. And there's

1868
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:19,760
Speaker 2: no real indication that the Trump administration plans to continue

1869
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:22,320
Speaker 2: in that direction. So while it is significant, I also

1870
01:28:22,360 --> 01:28:24,719
Speaker 2: don't want to make too much of it, because ultimately

1871
01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:28,080
Speaker 2: it matters what this Department of Labor does once the

1872
01:28:28,160 --> 01:28:29,000
Speaker 2: rubber hits the road.

1873
01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:32,599
Speaker 4: This is truly significant. I mean, there's just no other

1874
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:34,639
Speaker 4: way to look at it, because as some of these

1875
01:28:34,680 --> 01:28:38,040
Speaker 4: cabinet nominations have come out, there's been tons of pressures,

1876
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:40,400
Speaker 4: you know, on Sean O'Brien, people saying, look at this,

1877
01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:42,679
Speaker 4: you bet on the wrong horse, and here's what you're getting.

1878
01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:45,360
Speaker 4: Because various of these nominees have come from, you know,

1879
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:48,679
Speaker 4: the conservative movement, somebody like russ Vote, for example, who

1880
01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:51,760
Speaker 4: maybe you know, think differently about Union's publish Trump, but

1881
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:54,920
Speaker 4: definitely before Trump, we're not in favor of any of

1882
01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:57,759
Speaker 4: this at all, and we're much more aligned openly, proudly

1883
01:28:57,840 --> 01:29:01,120
Speaker 4: with the business community than with Union. And so this

1884
01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:04,400
Speaker 4: could have been somebody. I mean, remember Donald Trump's first

1885
01:29:04,400 --> 01:29:07,760
Speaker 4: nomination for his first labor secretary was Alex Acosta, the

1886
01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:11,080
Speaker 4: guy who approved the deal for Jeffrey Epstein, Right, I mean,

1887
01:29:11,120 --> 01:29:14,200
Speaker 4: like this could have been someone that was very, very

1888
01:29:14,240 --> 01:29:16,880
Speaker 4: hostile to organize labor. No matter what Donald Trump said

1889
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:20,759
Speaker 4: on the campaign trail, it's just the selection of people

1890
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:24,519
Speaker 4: to go from. It's just very, very difficult to actually

1891
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:27,280
Speaker 4: align yourself in that way. And for him to align

1892
01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:30,599
Speaker 4: himself with Sean O'Brien here, I mean, this is massive.

1893
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:35,040
Speaker 4: This is truly massive. The Labor secretary is in charge

1894
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:39,519
Speaker 4: of so much policy. It's not just what goes through Congress, like.

1895
01:29:39,520 --> 01:29:42,920
Speaker 4: The Labor Secretary is extremely consequential for the day to

1896
01:29:42,960 --> 01:29:45,960
Speaker 4: day policies or the day to day practices of what

1897
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:48,280
Speaker 4: happens in the business world. This is a huge, huge

1898
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:50,200
Speaker 4: deal for Republican president.

1899
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:53,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm no doubt about that. On the other hand,

1900
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:56,360
Speaker 2: you know, there are many contradictory signs in terms of

1901
01:29:56,360 --> 01:29:59,920
Speaker 2: the postures sports union within this administration. We can put

1902
01:30:00,200 --> 01:30:03,160
Speaker 2: this next piece up on the screen. So one of

1903
01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:05,479
Speaker 2: the biggest problems Rocanna here tweeting what could be a

1904
01:30:05,479 --> 01:30:08,360
Speaker 2: bigger betrayal working class voters than to dismantle an FDR

1905
01:30:08,439 --> 01:30:10,960
Speaker 2: created agency that be the National Labor Relations Board that

1906
01:30:10,960 --> 01:30:14,960
Speaker 2: protects unions and workers from exploitation, and he links to

1907
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:20,439
Speaker 2: watch it post article here about the efforts by Elon

1908
01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:25,600
Speaker 2: Musk and supported by many Trump allies, to deem the

1909
01:30:25,720 --> 01:30:30,280
Speaker 2: National Abor Relations Board unconstitutional, which would be kind of

1910
01:30:30,280 --> 01:30:35,120
Speaker 2: a death blow for union organizing. So Elon has been

1911
01:30:36,240 --> 01:30:40,280
Speaker 2: very involved in this Amazon SpaceX. They've all argued in

1912
01:30:40,360 --> 01:30:43,360
Speaker 2: federal court, Starbucks, they've all argued in federal core that

1913
01:30:43,400 --> 01:30:47,639
Speaker 2: the NLRB is unconstitutional. They also write in this article

1914
01:30:47,680 --> 01:30:50,719
Speaker 2: that Trump's presdential administration is poised to oversee major cuts

1915
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:55,040
Speaker 2: to the powers of the National Labor Relations Board and

1916
01:30:55,400 --> 01:30:59,479
Speaker 2: firing the democratic members of that board. And I know

1917
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:02,280
Speaker 2: this can see really in the weeds, but we've covered

1918
01:31:02,280 --> 01:31:04,200
Speaker 2: it extensively here. So if you've been watching the show

1919
01:31:04,200 --> 01:31:06,559
Speaker 2: for a while, you'll know some of this this wave

1920
01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:11,360
Speaker 2: of grassroots union organizing that we've seen at places like Amazon,

1921
01:31:11,479 --> 01:31:15,120
Speaker 2: at places which is represented by parts of the organizing

1922
01:31:15,200 --> 01:31:18,400
Speaker 2: driver being led by the teamsters. At places like Starbucks,

1923
01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:21,320
Speaker 2: the workers get all the credit for doing the you know,

1924
01:31:21,400 --> 01:31:23,519
Speaker 2: doing the work and taking a risk and all of that.

1925
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:27,920
Speaker 2: But it also was really dramatically enabled by a pretty

1926
01:31:27,960 --> 01:31:31,840
Speaker 2: aggressively pro worker National Labor Relations Board, the general counsel

1927
01:31:31,840 --> 01:31:34,679
Speaker 2: of which her name is Jennifer Arbruzzo. She is very

1928
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:37,120
Speaker 2: likely to be fired by the Trump administration. I don't

1929
01:31:37,160 --> 01:31:39,439
Speaker 2: think there hasn't been the whole like you know, Lena

1930
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:44,680
Speaker 2: Khan conversation. She hasn't been conversation conversation. She hasn't been

1931
01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:47,200
Speaker 2: made central to this, but she really should be, because

1932
01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:50,439
Speaker 2: if you actually care about expanding union rights, this is

1933
01:31:50,439 --> 01:31:54,000
Speaker 2: someone who has done incredible work. The Biden administration, which

1934
01:31:54,080 --> 01:31:58,280
Speaker 2: Jennifer Bruzzo has also worked to ban these meetings that

1935
01:31:58,320 --> 01:32:01,040
Speaker 2: they force workers to go in to to hear like

1936
01:32:01,160 --> 01:32:05,519
Speaker 2: anti union propaganda. There have been very important decisions made

1937
01:32:05,680 --> 01:32:09,120
Speaker 2: about even the way in which the Starbucks organizing could unfold,

1938
01:32:09,520 --> 01:32:14,439
Speaker 2: and so that's been super consequential. And with Elon Muskin here,

1939
01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:17,240
Speaker 2: as I mean, this is the guy that Brian brags

1940
01:32:17,280 --> 01:32:19,720
Speaker 2: about firing striking workers. That Trump was like, Yeah, way

1941
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:22,559
Speaker 2: to go. Good job with Elon Muskin here as an

1942
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:26,080
Speaker 2: incredible influence who thinks unions should just basically be illegal.

1943
01:32:26,800 --> 01:32:29,439
Speaker 2: It's still still if you're a labor supporter, as I am,

1944
01:32:29,560 --> 01:32:31,240
Speaker 2: I don't think you should be resting easy by the

1945
01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:33,639
Speaker 2: fact that they picked, you know, the scygressoonman who supported

1946
01:32:33,640 --> 01:32:36,600
Speaker 2: the pro Act to head the agency. There's still a

1947
01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:39,280
Speaker 2: lot of huge questions about what the orientation is actually

1948
01:32:39,320 --> 01:32:41,160
Speaker 2: going to be. And of course, in the first Trump

1949
01:32:41,200 --> 01:32:45,640
Speaker 2: administration he was aggressively anti union, which fits with his

1950
01:32:45,680 --> 01:32:48,479
Speaker 2: business career in which he also was a notable union buster.

1951
01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:50,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is one of the questions that I asked

1952
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:52,920
Speaker 4: my friends who are sort of working in the people

1953
01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:57,000
Speaker 4: who have seen these negotiations behind the scenes in the

1954
01:32:57,040 --> 01:32:58,760
Speaker 4: off season, as you put it earlier in the show,

1955
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:01,880
Speaker 4: to see what a a new Republican administration with their

1956
01:33:02,240 --> 01:33:04,160
Speaker 4: fantasy policies in place. I've asked them like, do you

1957
01:33:04,160 --> 01:33:07,599
Speaker 4: have enough people to staff a potentially pro labor labor

1958
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:11,040
Speaker 4: department under Donald Trump? Like those all of those middle positions, right,

1959
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:14,200
Speaker 4: which are also extremely consequential, who are you going to

1960
01:33:14,240 --> 01:33:17,200
Speaker 4: put in them? That's not from the like Coke world truly,

1961
01:33:17,520 --> 01:33:19,799
Speaker 4: that didn't grow up like in that time. It doesn't

1962
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:23,400
Speaker 4: come with some of those predispositions, And I don't know

1963
01:33:23,439 --> 01:33:28,320
Speaker 4: that that can happen, And so you just it means

1964
01:33:28,320 --> 01:33:30,280
Speaker 4: that maybe a lot of careers will be protected at

1965
01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:31,080
Speaker 4: the Labor Department.

1966
01:33:31,120 --> 01:33:33,719
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe, But you know, the other thing

1967
01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:37,360
Speaker 2: is like, okay, so you you give Sean O'Brien what

1968
01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:39,880
Speaker 2: he wants here, and you have Elon and Vive coming

1969
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:43,439
Speaker 2: in to basically take an axe to the whole agency.

1970
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:46,320
Speaker 4: Although they don't have any power, but they'll want.

1971
01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:51,080
Speaker 2: To Yes and Russ's vote and others have the theory

1972
01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:54,479
Speaker 2: that you can make unilateral cuts without having to go

1973
01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:58,720
Speaker 2: through Congress. So you know, I think it's very possible

1974
01:33:58,920 --> 01:34:00,920
Speaker 2: that you have her at the head of what ends

1975
01:34:01,000 --> 01:34:03,000
Speaker 2: up being sort of a skeleton agency that, even if

1976
01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:04,559
Speaker 2: it wants to, doesn't.

1977
01:34:04,360 --> 01:34:05,280
Speaker 5: Really have the power.

1978
01:34:05,479 --> 01:34:08,280
Speaker 2: Already, the Department of Labor in the National Labor Relations

1979
01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:11,439
Speaker 2: Board does not have sufficient staffing to be able to

1980
01:34:11,479 --> 01:34:16,679
Speaker 2: handle worker grievances and disputes and elections in a timely manner.

1981
01:34:16,720 --> 01:34:21,120
Speaker 2: Like it's already stretched incredibly thin, especially as there's been

1982
01:34:21,200 --> 01:34:25,639
Speaker 2: a significant increase in union organizing activity, So it's entirely

1983
01:34:25,640 --> 01:34:29,360
Speaker 2: possible you end up with a figurehead overseeing what's effectively

1984
01:34:29,400 --> 01:34:34,320
Speaker 2: like a skeleton agency that you know, basically gives gives

1985
01:34:34,320 --> 01:34:37,240
Speaker 2: a nod to the union voters and to Sean O'Brien

1986
01:34:37,240 --> 01:34:40,640
Speaker 2: and people who supported Donald Trump, but isn't actually effectively

1987
01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:44,640
Speaker 2: able to protect workers rights because that does take bureaucrats

1988
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:47,400
Speaker 2: and people in positions who can you know, do the

1989
01:34:47,439 --> 01:34:48,960
Speaker 2: work to make sure those rights are protected.

1990
01:34:49,320 --> 01:34:52,040
Speaker 4: Somehow, the bureaucrats at the NLRB had enough time to

1991
01:34:52,160 --> 01:34:54,280
Speaker 4: subpoena me over a joke tweet that my.

1992
01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:55,720
Speaker 5: Then, are you serious five years ago?

1993
01:34:55,760 --> 01:34:57,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe i'll tell the story about that one time,

1994
01:34:57,600 --> 01:35:00,720
Speaker 4: but it's been reported it was. Yeah, it was like

1995
01:35:01,000 --> 01:35:04,240
Speaker 4: a joke tweet about like whether employees at the Federalist

1996
01:35:04,240 --> 01:35:06,360
Speaker 4: would unionize. You could google it, but they did just

1997
01:35:06,400 --> 01:35:09,040
Speaker 4: subpoena the women, and they somehow found the time to

1998
01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:10,240
Speaker 4: do that. It's really fun.

1999
01:35:10,920 --> 01:35:11,639
Speaker 5: They're protecting you.

2000
01:35:11,640 --> 01:35:15,400
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, you're right. But we can put this Dan

2001
01:35:15,400 --> 01:35:17,599
Speaker 4: Maren's tweet up because I think it's really interesting. And Chris,

2002
01:35:17,640 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 4: so I know you and I disagree in this. I've

2003
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:21,639
Speaker 4: always been frustrated about the pro Act itself being sort

2004
01:35:21,640 --> 01:35:24,360
Speaker 4: of the litmus test. This is kind of conservatible freaking

2005
01:35:24,439 --> 01:35:28,599
Speaker 4: out about the Shaves de Raymer nomination because, as Dan

2006
01:35:28,720 --> 01:35:31,000
Speaker 4: points out in one of his posts, even some Democrats

2007
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:33,200
Speaker 4: have issues with the pro Act forcing companies to treat

2008
01:35:33,200 --> 01:35:35,439
Speaker 4: all gig workers as employees. And we could debate that.

2009
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:37,240
Speaker 4: I think maybe we have, like a couple of years ago,

2010
01:35:37,280 --> 01:35:42,320
Speaker 4: but it's significant even that, as some Democrats have issues

2011
01:35:42,360 --> 01:35:45,200
Speaker 4: with the pro Act. This one Republican was like, Hey,

2012
01:35:45,280 --> 01:35:47,639
Speaker 4: I'm getting on board with the pro Act even though

2013
01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:51,600
Speaker 4: I'm like, even the corporate Dems are uncomfortable with the

2014
01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:52,080
Speaker 4: pro Act.

2015
01:35:52,200 --> 01:35:56,240
Speaker 2: Well, at the Senate level, I think every Democrat except

2016
01:35:56,280 --> 01:35:59,720
Speaker 2: for Mark Kelly and Garson Cinema Cinema supported it.

2017
01:35:59,800 --> 01:36:02,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, those pretty Amaus. And then once Mark.

2018
01:36:02,160 --> 01:36:06,200
Speaker 2: Kelly started getting floated for being the vice presidential pick,

2019
01:36:06,600 --> 01:36:09,559
Speaker 2: he also was like, I support the pro Act, but hey, listen,

2020
01:36:09,600 --> 01:36:11,360
Speaker 2: I'm happy to go back to car check, which was

2021
01:36:11,400 --> 01:36:14,439
Speaker 2: what was being pushed, the Employee Free Choice Act, which

2022
01:36:14,439 --> 01:36:16,920
Speaker 2: was what was being pushed under the Obama administration.

2023
01:36:18,160 --> 01:36:19,320
Speaker 5: We can go ahead.

2024
01:36:19,160 --> 01:36:20,920
Speaker 2: Forward with some of these tweets a week and show

2025
01:36:21,000 --> 01:36:24,120
Speaker 2: there's you know, real freak out happening here. You say,

2026
01:36:24,120 --> 01:36:27,679
Speaker 2: a Republican labor secretary supports the anti worker broad would

2027
01:36:27,680 --> 01:36:30,559
Speaker 2: be a very bad star for Trump. Arguably the worst

2028
01:36:30,600 --> 01:36:35,559
Speaker 2: bill in Congress, anti freelancer, anti franchise, the anti secret ballot,

2029
01:36:35,600 --> 01:36:38,880
Speaker 2: anti worker. Can go ahead to the next one. If

2030
01:36:38,920 --> 01:36:41,439
Speaker 2: you think union leadership is in step with the union

2031
01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:44,320
Speaker 2: rank and file, you've learned absolutely nothing. Union members didn't

2032
01:36:44,360 --> 01:36:46,240
Speaker 2: vote for Trump to end right to work and empower

2033
01:36:46,280 --> 01:36:47,000
Speaker 2: teachers unions.

2034
01:36:47,040 --> 01:36:48,280
Speaker 5: They just wanted lower prices.

2035
01:36:48,320 --> 01:36:51,760
Speaker 2: So this is an interesting argument that one of like, no,

2036
01:36:51,920 --> 01:36:54,320
Speaker 2: they knew that Trump is anti union and they voted

2037
01:36:54,360 --> 01:36:57,599
Speaker 2: for him. Anyway, That's an interesting that's an interesting take.

2038
01:36:57,680 --> 01:36:59,240
Speaker 5: And maybe correct on it partially.

2039
01:37:00,320 --> 01:37:03,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then this one, this person says Lori Chavez

2040
01:37:03,439 --> 01:37:06,240
Speaker 2: Durymer cosponsor the pro Act. That's all I need to know.

2041
01:37:06,240 --> 01:37:09,519
Speaker 2: I don't think they mean that as a positive family so.

2042
01:37:08,960 --> 01:37:11,080
Speaker 4: So many people like that though, I mean truly like

2043
01:37:11,120 --> 01:37:15,760
Speaker 4: this is the Koch brothers were the engine of the

2044
01:37:16,880 --> 01:37:19,960
Speaker 4: let's say, the labor nonprofit movement on the right. And

2045
01:37:20,000 --> 01:37:21,800
Speaker 4: it's not as the people needed to be paid by

2046
01:37:21,840 --> 01:37:24,360
Speaker 4: the Koch brothers to have anti union positions. It was

2047
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:27,719
Speaker 4: just that the Conservative movement was reflectively in supportive business

2048
01:37:27,720 --> 01:37:30,640
Speaker 4: over organized labor. Yeah, it was part of the ideology

2049
01:37:30,720 --> 01:37:33,879
Speaker 4: that we trust the business more than we trust the government.

2050
01:37:34,320 --> 01:37:36,840
Speaker 4: And I mean, it's just it's baked into the cake here,

2051
01:37:36,920 --> 01:37:39,280
Speaker 4: and so I don't most of the people in the

2052
01:37:39,280 --> 01:37:42,439
Speaker 4: conservative movement who focus on labor issues have those takes.

2053
01:37:42,479 --> 01:37:44,320
Speaker 4: And there are some people like Orange Casts who have

2054
01:37:44,360 --> 01:37:47,960
Speaker 4: been toiling in the trenches and getting trashed by guys

2055
01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:50,719
Speaker 4: like that to come up with a slightly more pro

2056
01:37:50,720 --> 01:37:54,240
Speaker 4: worker policy agenda for the Republican Party. And even when

2057
01:37:54,240 --> 01:37:56,320
Speaker 4: they step a little bit out of line, they get

2058
01:37:57,120 --> 01:37:59,000
Speaker 4: you see Sager get it, I get it, Like it's

2059
01:37:59,280 --> 01:38:01,240
Speaker 4: not a big deal. But for people like Oron, who

2060
01:38:01,280 --> 01:38:03,880
Speaker 4: are the figureheads of this, like they make it impossible

2061
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:07,599
Speaker 4: to get money from people who want the conservative movement

2062
01:38:07,640 --> 01:38:10,479
Speaker 4: to have like a slightly more pro worker agenda. If

2063
01:38:10,520 --> 01:38:13,120
Speaker 4: you take any money from the left, you'll just get trashed.

2064
01:38:13,200 --> 01:38:17,240
Speaker 4: And so it's that's that reaction. The pressure is going

2065
01:38:17,280 --> 01:38:19,120
Speaker 4: to be on. There's just no question about it.

2066
01:38:19,200 --> 01:38:21,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, she'll get confirmed because I think quite a number

2067
01:38:21,320 --> 01:38:23,640
Speaker 2: of Democrats will actually vote for her too, because of

2068
01:38:23,680 --> 01:38:26,000
Speaker 2: the available choices like you are not going to get

2069
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:31,120
Speaker 2: a more pro labor Department of Labor head than she is.

2070
01:38:31,640 --> 01:38:34,880
Speaker 2: But it'll be interesting whether there are any Republicans who

2071
01:38:35,080 --> 01:38:39,360
Speaker 2: vote against her. You know, the super business like Chamber

2072
01:38:39,400 --> 01:38:43,280
Speaker 2: of Commerce types are going to be under pressure, probably,

2073
01:38:43,320 --> 01:38:45,960
Speaker 2: although maybe they don't really even apply pressure because they

2074
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:47,800
Speaker 2: know it's a bit of a lost cause with Democrats

2075
01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:50,519
Speaker 2: being willing to vote for her. So I'll just say

2076
01:38:50,560 --> 01:38:52,759
Speaker 2: for my part, you know, I do think it's obviously

2077
01:38:52,800 --> 01:38:57,240
Speaker 2: noteworthy and an important break from the Trump administration last

2078
01:38:57,240 --> 01:39:00,000
Speaker 2: time around, and from Republican orthodoxy in general. I think

2079
01:39:00,240 --> 01:39:02,800
Speaker 2: is incredibly positive for the labor movement. If there are

2080
01:39:02,840 --> 01:39:06,840
Speaker 2: some Republican bipartisan support for unions, no doubt about it.

2081
01:39:07,000 --> 01:39:09,200
Speaker 2: I'm going to need to see a lot more before

2082
01:39:09,240 --> 01:39:11,240
Speaker 2: I'm convinced that Donald Trump is going to be remotely

2083
01:39:11,280 --> 01:39:15,599
Speaker 2: good for labor organizing, given his personal history and given

2084
01:39:15,600 --> 01:39:18,439
Speaker 2: the way the first administration unfolded, and given that probably

2085
01:39:18,479 --> 01:39:21,679
Speaker 2: the most powerful person advisor to Donald Trump right now

2086
01:39:21,880 --> 01:39:25,320
Speaker 2: is Elon Musk, who is vehemently opposed to unions even

2087
01:39:25,400 --> 01:39:26,559
Speaker 2: like existing in the world.

2088
01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:30,760
Speaker 4: It's an entirely fair point, and the one thing that

2089
01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:32,760
Speaker 4: I always say to people on the right about this

2090
01:39:33,880 --> 01:39:35,559
Speaker 4: as I grew up in a split household. My dad

2091
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:37,240
Speaker 4: is a union and my mom worked in HR, so

2092
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:37,639
Speaker 4: it was like.

2093
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:39,759
Speaker 5: A little bit funny.

2094
01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:44,240
Speaker 4: But my point is you, basically, if you don't trust corporations,

2095
01:39:44,280 --> 01:39:47,600
Speaker 4: if you think that there's like a moral vacuum in

2096
01:39:47,640 --> 01:39:50,200
Speaker 4: corporate America and that these executives are bad and that's

2097
01:39:50,240 --> 01:39:52,599
Speaker 4: what was driving a lot of DEI, will imagine how

2098
01:39:52,600 --> 01:39:55,679
Speaker 4: they actually treat their workers. Imagine, like, take that and

2099
01:39:55,920 --> 01:39:58,960
Speaker 4: apply it. You know what, if they are suddenly adopting

2100
01:39:59,120 --> 01:40:02,800
Speaker 4: all of this DEI bullshit and it's reflective of them

2101
01:40:02,840 --> 01:40:07,839
Speaker 4: having bad character and being cynical corporate losers, then imagine

2102
01:40:07,840 --> 01:40:10,559
Speaker 4: how they treat their workers. Like just take that and say,

2103
01:40:10,560 --> 01:40:13,479
Speaker 4: if you believe this is reflective of moral rot insteade

2104
01:40:13,479 --> 01:40:16,240
Speaker 4: of corporate America, then imagine working for Amazon.

2105
01:40:16,439 --> 01:40:16,599
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2106
01:40:16,680 --> 01:40:19,479
Speaker 4: It's really simple. Yeah, translates right across the board.

2107
01:40:19,560 --> 01:40:20,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, so such a great point.

2108
01:40:21,080 --> 01:40:23,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, we've got another great guest standing by

2109
01:40:24,160 --> 01:40:27,799
Speaker 2: an activist who has been pushing to try to implement

2110
01:40:27,840 --> 01:40:29,439
Speaker 2: a weapons embargo against Israel.

2111
01:40:29,479 --> 01:40:30,240
Speaker 5: Let's go and get to that.

2112
01:40:33,120 --> 01:40:35,479
Speaker 2: Very happy to be joined this morning by Mohammad Nabulsi

2113
01:40:35,560 --> 01:40:38,320
Speaker 2: of the Palestinian Youth Movement movement has been engaged in

2114
01:40:38,360 --> 01:40:40,679
Speaker 2: some very interesting activism. We're hoping you would break down

2115
01:40:40,680 --> 01:40:41,559
Speaker 2: for us here on the show.

2116
01:40:41,600 --> 01:40:44,760
Speaker 12: Welcome Mohammed, thank you for having me. Yeah.

2117
01:40:44,760 --> 01:40:47,559
Speaker 2: So, we have seen how the US, in particular about

2118
01:40:47,560 --> 01:40:50,720
Speaker 2: other countries as well, primarily the US though, has been

2119
01:40:50,880 --> 01:40:54,400
Speaker 2: reluctant to follow our own laws, let alone international laws.

2120
01:40:54,760 --> 01:40:57,400
Speaker 2: And so you a Palestine and youth movement have decided

2121
01:40:57,439 --> 01:41:00,639
Speaker 2: to take some actions to put pressure on shipping Maresk

2122
01:41:00,680 --> 01:41:03,840
Speaker 2: in particular regards to shipping weapons to Israel. To break

2123
01:41:03,880 --> 01:41:06,240
Speaker 2: down for us a little bit about your organization and

2124
01:41:06,280 --> 01:41:07,080
Speaker 2: what you all are up to.

2125
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:11,519
Speaker 22: So yeah, the Pastaanian Youth Movement is an organization of

2126
01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:15,519
Speaker 22: Arab youth in the diaspora, primarily located in the West

2127
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:19,120
Speaker 22: and in North America and Britain. And we've been organizing

2128
01:41:19,160 --> 01:41:21,200
Speaker 22: over the last year and a half since the start

2129
01:41:21,240 --> 01:41:24,280
Speaker 22: of this genocide to place pressure specifically on the Biden

2130
01:41:24,360 --> 01:41:28,640
Speaker 22: administration to relent in its support of this ongoing genocide.

2131
01:41:28,880 --> 01:41:32,559
Speaker 22: And so the main demands obviously have been ceasefire, but

2132
01:41:32,840 --> 01:41:36,960
Speaker 22: as the war proceeded, the demand of an arms embargo

2133
01:41:37,040 --> 01:41:40,160
Speaker 22: became more central because we started to recognize that first

2134
01:41:40,439 --> 01:41:43,080
Speaker 22: that the Biden Harris administration was able to co opt

2135
01:41:43,240 --> 01:41:46,200
Speaker 22: the language of ceasefire to say that they wanted to

2136
01:41:46,200 --> 01:41:50,920
Speaker 22: cease fire while also doing nothing to actually bring it

2137
01:41:50,960 --> 01:41:55,280
Speaker 22: about beyond just empty platitudes in front of podiums. And

2138
01:41:55,360 --> 01:41:58,479
Speaker 22: so an arms embargo became the central demand because we

2139
01:41:58,560 --> 01:42:01,800
Speaker 22: recognize that that is the only way we'd.

2140
01:42:01,560 --> 01:42:04,400
Speaker 12: Be able to actually achieve a ceasefire. And so.

2141
01:42:06,080 --> 01:42:10,200
Speaker 22: After that sort of recognition took place, we also saw

2142
01:42:10,200 --> 01:42:13,719
Speaker 22: that the Biden Harris administration was reluctant to do anything

2143
01:42:13,960 --> 01:42:16,479
Speaker 22: in the way of arms and bargo despite sort of

2144
01:42:16,520 --> 01:42:20,080
Speaker 22: the global pressure to bring that about. And we've launched

2145
01:42:20,080 --> 01:42:23,639
Speaker 22: this campaign mask off Mirsk in May of this year,

2146
01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:29,280
Speaker 22: and we began by recognizing or understanding that Merk, this

2147
01:42:29,400 --> 01:42:32,679
Speaker 22: Danish company, one of the largest, if not the largest

2148
01:42:33,080 --> 01:42:36,920
Speaker 22: logistics and supply chain company in the world that's responsible

2149
01:42:36,920 --> 01:42:42,360
Speaker 22: for basically taking goods, products, military cargo from the US

2150
01:42:42,400 --> 01:42:45,760
Speaker 22: from everywhere really and transporting it across the globe. And

2151
01:42:45,800 --> 01:42:50,040
Speaker 22: so mask off Merk was meant to unveil the role,

2152
01:42:50,439 --> 01:42:53,920
Speaker 22: exposed the role that Mirk is playing in sustaining this

2153
01:42:54,000 --> 01:42:57,360
Speaker 22: genocide against the Palatine people in Gaza. We published a

2154
01:42:57,560 --> 01:43:00,519
Speaker 22: report more recently, and I'm happy to discuss the details

2155
01:43:00,520 --> 01:43:03,000
Speaker 22: of that report because there have been major developments in

2156
01:43:03,040 --> 01:43:05,840
Speaker 22: response to the publishing of the report, the coverage by

2157
01:43:05,840 --> 01:43:09,640
Speaker 22: the Intercept and by Spanish media resulting in the Spanish

2158
01:43:09,720 --> 01:43:14,440
Speaker 22: government banning or preventing the docking of two MARSK ships

2159
01:43:14,600 --> 01:43:15,360
Speaker 22: on its shores.

2160
01:43:15,560 --> 01:43:17,559
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I was going to say, please tell us

2161
01:43:17,600 --> 01:43:20,320
Speaker 4: more about the response, because you know, it may sound

2162
01:43:20,360 --> 01:43:23,679
Speaker 4: like one company, but MRSK is an incredibly consequential company

2163
01:43:23,680 --> 01:43:25,559
Speaker 4: in the global economy. So tell us a little bit

2164
01:43:25,560 --> 01:43:29,160
Speaker 4: more about what's happened, and maybe even specifically a little

2165
01:43:29,200 --> 01:43:34,240
Speaker 4: bit more about how MRK, like the ships themselves are involved.

2166
01:43:34,400 --> 01:43:37,360
Speaker 4: As the report outlines, in some of this.

2167
01:43:37,320 --> 01:43:39,960
Speaker 12: Activity absolutely so.

2168
01:43:40,160 --> 01:43:43,920
Speaker 22: We basically documented and this is from publicly available information

2169
01:43:44,320 --> 01:43:48,400
Speaker 22: reviewing the actual shipments that have taken place. From September

2170
01:43:48,439 --> 01:43:53,160
Speaker 22: of last year, twenty twenty three, MERSK has shipped millions

2171
01:43:53,200 --> 01:43:57,040
Speaker 22: of pounds of military goods military cargo to the Israeli

2172
01:43:57,080 --> 01:44:00,040
Speaker 22: Ministry of Defense from the US. And these are the

2173
01:44:00,160 --> 01:44:05,719
Speaker 22: US manufactured military cargo paid for by the US, paid

2174
01:44:05,720 --> 01:44:10,440
Speaker 22: for really by US taxpayers shipped across two thousand shipments,

2175
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:15,040
Speaker 22: and these shipments included hulls, engines, specialized parts for armored

2176
01:44:15,040 --> 01:44:20,080
Speaker 22: personnel carriers, tactical vehicles, specifically a vehicle that I think

2177
01:44:20,200 --> 01:44:22,320
Speaker 22: your audience and a lot of people would recognize, the

2178
01:44:22,360 --> 01:44:27,280
Speaker 22: Oshkosh tactical vehicle where you might have seen the photo

2179
01:44:27,360 --> 01:44:32,720
Speaker 22: of Palestinians blindfolded, stripped, rounded up in place in the

2180
01:44:32,760 --> 01:44:37,000
Speaker 22: back of this truck essentially being carried off to be

2181
01:44:37,040 --> 01:44:39,080
Speaker 22: either tortured, imprisoned, or whatever.

2182
01:44:39,479 --> 01:44:41,360
Speaker 1: And so these.

2183
01:44:41,160 --> 01:44:46,519
Speaker 22: Ship these RSK ships basically the way that it operates.

2184
01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:51,559
Speaker 22: They're called transshipment vessels, and they're picking up goods from

2185
01:44:51,720 --> 01:44:53,800
Speaker 22: the Port of Houston, taking them to the Port of

2186
01:44:53,840 --> 01:44:57,760
Speaker 22: Elizabeth in New Jersey and then they drop off their

2187
01:44:57,800 --> 01:45:02,960
Speaker 22: cargo in Spain at their transshipment pubs. And as you

2188
01:45:03,000 --> 01:45:08,879
Speaker 22: can imagine, MARKS leases essentially controls terminals at multiple ports

2189
01:45:09,600 --> 01:45:12,439
Speaker 22: at the entry of the Mediterranean, and so for MARK

2190
01:45:12,720 --> 01:45:16,800
Speaker 22: these vessels they drop them off in Spain and from

2191
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:20,519
Speaker 22: there MARK ships that are responsible they're smaller in size,

2192
01:45:20,680 --> 01:45:24,880
Speaker 22: are responsible for basically doing a loop around the Mediterranean

2193
01:45:24,920 --> 01:45:27,080
Speaker 22: where they pick up the goods from Spain and then

2194
01:45:27,120 --> 01:45:33,000
Speaker 22: drop them off either in port said and Egypt and

2195
01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:37,479
Speaker 22: Turkey or directly towards the actual port in Haifa. And

2196
01:45:37,560 --> 01:45:41,800
Speaker 22: so these vessels are they need to drop off their

2197
01:45:41,800 --> 01:45:46,080
Speaker 22: goods at this entry point. Now, with Spain basically issue

2198
01:45:46,280 --> 01:45:49,599
Speaker 22: implementing an arms embargo them spelves, the Spanish government has

2199
01:45:50,000 --> 01:45:53,320
Speaker 22: spoken extensively about the fact that they're not going to

2200
01:45:53,360 --> 01:45:56,639
Speaker 22: allow any weapons to be shipped to Israel, either from

2201
01:45:56,680 --> 01:46:01,400
Speaker 22: them directly or through their ports. And so Spain, following

2202
01:46:01,479 --> 01:46:05,680
Speaker 22: the reporting from the intercept covering our report, essentially it

2203
01:46:05,720 --> 01:46:10,160
Speaker 22: was forced to respond and as a result, they BANNEDMMERK

2204
01:46:10,200 --> 01:46:14,640
Speaker 22: from docking these ships at its port. Now MRSK itself responded.

2205
01:46:15,760 --> 01:46:19,200
Speaker 22: They first stated that they don't ship any weapons or

2206
01:46:19,240 --> 01:46:22,320
Speaker 22: ammunitions to Israel or conflict zones more broadly, and that

2207
01:46:22,360 --> 01:46:25,559
Speaker 22: they take care of sort of humanitarian concerns, all of

2208
01:46:25,560 --> 01:46:29,080
Speaker 22: this sort of jazz. But you have to be really

2209
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:33,960
Speaker 22: like specific about the language here. So MERSK says we

2210
01:46:34,000 --> 01:46:36,639
Speaker 22: don't ship weapons in ammunitions, and this.

2211
01:46:36,680 --> 01:46:36,920
Speaker 20: Is a.

2212
01:46:38,400 --> 01:46:41,800
Speaker 22: It's really a way for them to get around what

2213
01:46:41,840 --> 01:46:48,000
Speaker 22: they're actually doing. Weapons here refers to you know, assembled parts,

2214
01:46:48,360 --> 01:46:52,799
Speaker 22: like actual assembled weapons or ammunition, meaning live ammunition involving

2215
01:46:52,800 --> 01:46:54,679
Speaker 22: gunpowder or things of that nature.

2216
01:46:55,040 --> 01:46:58,840
Speaker 12: Basically, what MRSK is doing is shipping everything but that, right.

2217
01:46:58,880 --> 01:47:02,160
Speaker 22: It's so so for example, they say, well, we're shipping

2218
01:47:02,479 --> 01:47:06,120
Speaker 22: the body of a tank, the engine of a tank,

2219
01:47:06,400 --> 01:47:09,519
Speaker 22: the armor of a tank, but we're not shipping the tank, right,

2220
01:47:09,640 --> 01:47:12,479
Speaker 22: but that is the tank, it's being assembled in Israel itself.

2221
01:47:13,080 --> 01:47:16,639
Speaker 22: So the same thing they're doing about like bullets, they'll

2222
01:47:16,680 --> 01:47:21,600
Speaker 22: ship the bullet casing, they'll ship the actual body of

2223
01:47:21,640 --> 01:47:23,840
Speaker 22: the bullet, and the same for the rockets. They'll ship

2224
01:47:23,880 --> 01:47:27,120
Speaker 22: the body of a rocket, they won't ship the actual ammunition.

2225
01:47:27,600 --> 01:47:29,920
Speaker 22: And this is because, first of all, it's much more

2226
01:47:29,960 --> 01:47:33,000
Speaker 22: costly to do so, and it involves higher wages for

2227
01:47:33,080 --> 01:47:36,360
Speaker 22: workers at docks to be able to actually carry because

2228
01:47:36,360 --> 01:47:38,719
Speaker 22: this is really hazardous material and dangerous material.

2229
01:47:38,920 --> 01:47:40,320
Speaker 12: So they send everything but that.

2230
01:47:40,920 --> 01:47:43,680
Speaker 22: And what we've seen, I mean, if anybody's followed this

2231
01:47:43,840 --> 01:47:46,200
Speaker 22: war so extensively, which is obviously one of the most

2232
01:47:46,200 --> 01:47:50,160
Speaker 22: documented war on social media, you know these exact vehicles

2233
01:47:50,200 --> 01:47:52,360
Speaker 22: you know the name or armored personal carrier, which is

2234
01:47:52,360 --> 01:47:55,599
Speaker 22: what they're responsible for sort of transporting all of these

2235
01:47:55,640 --> 01:47:58,800
Speaker 22: things are what they're transporting, and they use this turn

2236
01:47:58,880 --> 01:48:03,680
Speaker 22: of phrase, this technical word, to avoid basically conceding that

2237
01:48:03,720 --> 01:48:07,840
Speaker 22: they are shipping actual weapons. And you know, at least

2238
01:48:07,840 --> 01:48:11,719
Speaker 22: in a layman understanding or in everyday person's understanding of weapons,

2239
01:48:11,720 --> 01:48:14,040
Speaker 22: these are weapons. And for the Spanish government, that's how

2240
01:48:14,040 --> 01:48:16,000
Speaker 22: they understood it as well, and so they've banned them.

2241
01:48:16,240 --> 01:48:18,960
Speaker 22: And now as a result of that, as a result

2242
01:48:19,000 --> 01:48:21,080
Speaker 22: of banning them from being able to dock in Spain,

2243
01:48:21,160 --> 01:48:25,280
Speaker 22: they've moved to Tangier. It's another terminal they essentially control.

2244
01:48:25,439 --> 01:48:29,680
Speaker 22: Tangier is located in Morocco. Morocco has obviously normalized relations

2245
01:48:29,680 --> 01:48:33,920
Speaker 22: with the State of Israel, and now the fight has

2246
01:48:33,960 --> 01:48:38,560
Speaker 22: shifted to Morocco because the population there, the actual.

2247
01:48:38,280 --> 01:48:41,840
Speaker 12: People of Morocco, are up in arms over this.

2248
01:48:42,040 --> 01:48:45,840
Speaker 22: And we've seen several dock workers walk off the job,

2249
01:48:46,080 --> 01:48:50,360
Speaker 22: they've resigned. We've seen multiple leaks from within, you know,

2250
01:48:50,400 --> 01:48:53,439
Speaker 22: these are essentially mersed employees because they work at this

2251
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:58,360
Speaker 22: terminal that's leased by Mark leaking photographs from CCTV footage

2252
01:48:58,400 --> 01:49:01,960
Speaker 22: they've leaked, you know, essentially a bunch of a ton

2253
01:49:01,960 --> 01:49:05,240
Speaker 22: of information to media locally, and there's been a mobilization

2254
01:49:05,479 --> 01:49:09,320
Speaker 22: across Morocco and specifically at the support in Tangier. Now

2255
01:49:09,600 --> 01:49:12,400
Speaker 22: I'll end here because I know I'm talking on for

2256
01:49:12,439 --> 01:49:14,519
Speaker 22: a while, But the main point I want to say

2257
01:49:14,600 --> 01:49:17,440
Speaker 22: is that you have to understand this is an extremely

2258
01:49:17,520 --> 01:49:22,600
Speaker 22: important area for MIRSK to be able to operate the Mediterranean.

2259
01:49:22,720 --> 01:49:24,920
Speaker 12: We know what's occurred essentially through the Red Sea and

2260
01:49:25,000 --> 01:49:25,840
Speaker 12: Yeman in.

2261
01:49:25,840 --> 01:49:29,439
Speaker 22: Terms of you know, the port of Iliat in the south,

2262
01:49:30,000 --> 01:49:34,880
Speaker 22: and we know that MIRSK needs to ship to drop

2263
01:49:34,920 --> 01:49:37,559
Speaker 22: off these goods at these specific ports. They have really

2264
01:49:37,600 --> 01:49:41,519
Speaker 22: two options Morocco and Spain. If Spain is shut off,

2265
01:49:41,640 --> 01:49:43,840
Speaker 22: Morocco shut off, where are they going to go? And

2266
01:49:43,880 --> 01:49:46,840
Speaker 22: you have to understand that the cargo that these ships carry,

2267
01:49:47,360 --> 01:49:50,360
Speaker 22: the military cargo, is just a small component of a

2268
01:49:50,479 --> 01:49:54,040
Speaker 22: much broader cargo, most of it consumer goods, and so

2269
01:49:54,160 --> 01:49:58,120
Speaker 22: this is a small aspect. You're jeopardizing this broader, your

2270
01:49:58,240 --> 01:50:01,760
Speaker 22: broader ability to ship throughout the terranean for something very

2271
01:50:01,800 --> 01:50:04,840
Speaker 22: small on your ship in terms of the.

2272
01:50:04,520 --> 01:50:05,439
Speaker 12: Space it takes up.

2273
01:50:05,680 --> 01:50:05,880
Speaker 11: Well.

2274
01:50:05,920 --> 01:50:08,639
Speaker 12: So these developments have been really important for the campaign.

2275
01:50:08,800 --> 01:50:11,360
Speaker 2: And something that we all learned in the pandemic, and

2276
01:50:11,400 --> 01:50:13,760
Speaker 2: I think activists have known for many, many years, is

2277
01:50:13,800 --> 01:50:16,720
Speaker 2: how critical these supply chains are and how when they

2278
01:50:16,760 --> 01:50:20,120
Speaker 2: get mucked up, it becomes very difficult to operate and

2279
01:50:20,120 --> 01:50:22,080
Speaker 2: do the things that you're trying to do. I'm sure

2280
01:50:22,120 --> 01:50:25,320
Speaker 2: Israel is quite keenly aware of that, Muhammed. While we

2281
01:50:25,400 --> 01:50:27,640
Speaker 2: have you, I wanted to also get your reaction to

2282
01:50:28,040 --> 01:50:30,800
Speaker 2: last week, we you know, got the long awaited news

2283
01:50:30,800 --> 01:50:33,519
Speaker 2: that the ICC was in fact issuing arrest warrants for

2284
01:50:33,760 --> 01:50:37,560
Speaker 2: Bib Natna, who Yoav Galant and also a leader of Hamas.

2285
01:50:38,080 --> 01:50:40,800
Speaker 2: The US is, you know, not a party to the ICC,

2286
01:50:41,120 --> 01:50:43,800
Speaker 2: and we actually have something called the Hague Invasion Act

2287
01:50:44,160 --> 01:50:47,200
Speaker 2: that threatens war against the Netherlands were they to do

2288
01:50:47,360 --> 01:50:49,639
Speaker 2: anything that we don't want them to do. A US

2289
01:50:49,720 --> 01:50:52,759
Speaker 2: Senator Tom Goddon already threatening to invoke the Hague Invasion Act,

2290
01:50:53,000 --> 01:50:56,120
Speaker 2: but many other countries around the world said no, we

2291
01:50:56,240 --> 01:50:59,799
Speaker 2: will abide by these arrass warrants and if Bibe Natanya

2292
01:50:59,840 --> 01:51:03,360
Speaker 2: who comes here, he will be arrested. Justin Trudeau of

2293
01:51:03,479 --> 01:51:06,599
Speaker 2: Canada was one of the world leaders who made comments

2294
01:51:06,600 --> 01:51:07,160
Speaker 2: to that effect.

2295
01:51:07,200 --> 01:51:08,400
Speaker 5: Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

2296
01:51:08,840 --> 01:51:11,719
Speaker 23: Now that the ICC has issued warrants for Prime Minister

2297
01:51:11,800 --> 01:51:16,879
Speaker 23: Benjamin Netanyahu and his former Defense minister joof Gallant, Canadian

2298
01:51:16,960 --> 01:51:20,800
Speaker 23: law enforcement is obligated to arrest them should they come

2299
01:51:20,840 --> 01:51:23,479
Speaker 23: to Canada. Will you allow that to happen or will

2300
01:51:23,479 --> 01:51:25,120
Speaker 23: you step in to prevent an arrest?

2301
01:51:25,680 --> 01:51:28,960
Speaker 11: First of all, as Canada has always said, it's really

2302
01:51:29,000 --> 01:51:33,840
Speaker 11: important that everyone abide by international law. This is something

2303
01:51:33,840 --> 01:51:36,839
Speaker 11: we've been calling on from the beginning of the conflict.

2304
01:51:38,479 --> 01:51:41,800
Speaker 11: We are one of the founding members of the International

2305
01:51:42,320 --> 01:51:46,400
Speaker 11: Criminal Court and International Court of Justice. We stand up

2306
01:51:46,439 --> 01:51:50,639
Speaker 11: for international law and we will abide by all the

2307
01:51:52,520 --> 01:51:56,880
Speaker 11: all the regulations and rulings of the international courts.

2308
01:51:57,240 --> 01:51:59,000
Speaker 2: Trudeau is not alone there. I can put this tear

2309
01:51:59,000 --> 01:52:00,720
Speaker 2: sheet up on the screen. There are one hundred and

2310
01:52:00,720 --> 01:52:04,479
Speaker 2: twenty four member nations of the International Criminal Court. We

2311
01:52:04,520 --> 01:52:06,519
Speaker 2: don't know that they will all comply, but quite a

2312
01:52:06,640 --> 01:52:08,640
Speaker 2: number of them have said that they will. This is

2313
01:52:08,680 --> 01:52:11,559
Speaker 2: a map showing those countries that have responded thus far.

2314
01:52:11,880 --> 01:52:15,880
Speaker 2: They include Italy, the Netherlands, Spain, Switzerland, Lithuania, Canada, Ireland,

2315
01:52:16,000 --> 01:52:21,120
Speaker 2: South Africa, Turkey, Jordan, Norway and Sweden. How significant, Muhammad,

2316
01:52:21,160 --> 01:52:23,000
Speaker 2: do you think that we should we should find.

2317
01:52:22,800 --> 01:52:23,519
Speaker 5: All of this to be.

2318
01:52:25,560 --> 01:52:28,680
Speaker 22: I mean, it's going to really depend on the actual implementation.

2319
01:52:28,960 --> 01:52:32,280
Speaker 22: I do think that the formalization of arrest or warrent

2320
01:52:32,439 --> 01:52:37,519
Speaker 22: allows for greater capacity for popular pressure to actually exact

2321
01:52:37,760 --> 01:52:41,040
Speaker 22: pressure on governments to end their responsibility or role in

2322
01:52:41,280 --> 01:52:43,800
Speaker 22: this genocide. And so I think, for example, if you

2323
01:52:43,840 --> 01:52:48,240
Speaker 22: look at more recently that the European Union's Foreign policy chief,

2324
01:52:48,320 --> 01:52:50,479
Speaker 22: Joseph Barrell, he stated, this is just a few days

2325
01:52:50,479 --> 01:52:53,280
Speaker 22: ago that EU member states cannot pick and choose which

2326
01:52:53,320 --> 01:52:56,200
Speaker 22: warrants they execute, and so this is going to create

2327
01:52:56,240 --> 01:52:58,639
Speaker 22: pressure on European Union member states. And I think it's

2328
01:52:58,680 --> 01:53:02,880
Speaker 22: also going to create pressure on companies, multinational companies that

2329
01:53:02,880 --> 01:53:06,280
Speaker 22: are sort of bound by EU law to recognize that

2330
01:53:06,840 --> 01:53:10,839
Speaker 22: complicity in this you're essentially aiding and embetting a war criminal.

2331
01:53:11,200 --> 01:53:12,759
Speaker 12: Right, it's very direct.

2332
01:53:13,320 --> 01:53:16,160
Speaker 22: It's one thing for people to accuse Israel of genocide

2333
01:53:16,240 --> 01:53:18,920
Speaker 22: or accuse Israeli leaders of war crimes. It's another thing

2334
01:53:19,200 --> 01:53:23,360
Speaker 22: for an international institution that countless countries are bound by,

2335
01:53:24,000 --> 01:53:28,160
Speaker 22: bound by their decisions, bound by their prescripts, to actually

2336
01:53:29,080 --> 01:53:31,760
Speaker 22: be then bound formally.

2337
01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:34,200
Speaker 12: To implementing these types of sort of rulings.

2338
01:53:34,240 --> 01:53:36,280
Speaker 22: And so I think it's going to be important for

2339
01:53:36,400 --> 01:53:38,920
Speaker 22: us to be able to use this more so than

2340
01:53:38,960 --> 01:53:40,920
Speaker 22: it is to see what happens because at the end

2341
01:53:40,920 --> 01:53:43,960
Speaker 22: of the day, I think you all know and your

2342
01:53:44,000 --> 01:53:47,720
Speaker 22: audience knows that the US is likely to intervene in

2343
01:53:47,760 --> 01:53:50,439
Speaker 22: one way or another, whether it's through political or economic

2344
01:53:50,520 --> 01:53:53,639
Speaker 22: pressures on these countries. We've seen that in the way

2345
01:53:53,640 --> 01:53:56,800
Speaker 22: that it's happened through is the US's prevention of them,

2346
01:53:57,280 --> 01:54:02,200
Speaker 22: prevention of the United Nations Security Council ceasefire resolutions, or

2347
01:54:02,240 --> 01:54:05,240
Speaker 22: whether the pressure placed on the ICJ, the threatening of

2348
01:54:05,320 --> 01:54:10,200
Speaker 22: sanctions coming from Congress against the ICC prosecutor all of

2349
01:54:10,240 --> 01:54:12,840
Speaker 22: these things. Will see how they're able to weather them.

2350
01:54:12,840 --> 01:54:15,800
Speaker 22: But I think for companies like MRSK for example, it's

2351
01:54:15,840 --> 01:54:22,519
Speaker 22: a Danish company operations throughout Europe, now unnoticed that weapons

2352
01:54:22,520 --> 01:54:24,800
Speaker 22: that it's shipping directly to y'all of galant in the

2353
01:54:24,840 --> 01:54:28,919
Speaker 22: Ministry of Defense are going towards aiding and ambtting war crimes.

2354
01:54:29,120 --> 01:54:31,360
Speaker 22: So they can't run away from this, and they might

2355
01:54:31,400 --> 01:54:34,040
Speaker 22: be potentially legally complicit in the same way with the

2356
01:54:34,040 --> 01:54:35,160
Speaker 22: other countries.

2357
01:54:34,720 --> 01:54:35,440
Speaker 12: And the genocide.

2358
01:54:35,480 --> 01:54:40,080
Speaker 22: And that's why the genocide sort of ICJ probability ruling

2359
01:54:40,480 --> 01:54:45,480
Speaker 22: right the US, US officials, various other officials across the globe,

2360
01:54:45,600 --> 01:54:47,920
Speaker 22: they could be found they could be themselves found to

2361
01:54:47,960 --> 01:54:49,480
Speaker 22: be complicit in a very direct way.

2362
01:54:49,720 --> 01:54:52,080
Speaker 5: I think those are all really important points. Mohammad. Tell

2363
01:54:52,160 --> 01:54:54,520
Speaker 5: people where they can find and support the work that you're.

2364
01:54:54,320 --> 01:54:59,600
Speaker 22: Doing, absolutely, I think so you can Palacini and youth

2365
01:54:59,640 --> 01:55:04,560
Speaker 22: movement across social media, especially on Instagram. Maskofmersk dot com

2366
01:55:04,640 --> 01:55:08,120
Speaker 22: is where you can follow the campaign, and then you

2367
01:55:08,160 --> 01:55:10,360
Speaker 22: also have if you're a.

2368
01:55:10,280 --> 01:55:12,920
Speaker 12: Worker, a doc worker, if you work for MIRSK, if you.

2369
01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:16,600
Speaker 22: Have any important information related to Mersk and it's dealings

2370
01:55:16,640 --> 01:55:20,840
Speaker 22: with the Israeli genocide, you can email us at maskofmersk

2371
01:55:21,000 --> 01:55:24,440
Speaker 22: dot proton dot me. I think it's important for people,

2372
01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:26,560
Speaker 22: your audience to know that you know, this is a

2373
01:55:26,600 --> 01:55:30,640
Speaker 22: campaign that's built on popular power. It's about implementing on

2374
01:55:30,800 --> 01:55:35,200
Speaker 22: arms people's arms embargo. We heard from seven labor unions

2375
01:55:35,800 --> 01:55:40,640
Speaker 22: sent a letter to to President Biden telling him urging

2376
01:55:40,720 --> 01:55:43,880
Speaker 22: him to implement on arms in Bargo. And we're building

2377
01:55:43,920 --> 01:55:46,560
Speaker 22: a campaign through labor, through the student movement, with a

2378
01:55:46,600 --> 01:55:50,480
Speaker 22: strategic target, one that has specific role in this genocide, MERSK,

2379
01:55:50,960 --> 01:55:53,480
Speaker 22: one that is vulnerable because of where it is in

2380
01:55:53,560 --> 01:55:55,520
Speaker 22: friendly countries with powerful unions.

2381
01:55:55,960 --> 01:55:57,720
Speaker 12: One that is also.

2382
01:55:57,680 --> 01:56:00,480
Speaker 22: Has an incentive to change has an incentive to its

2383
01:56:00,520 --> 01:56:06,920
Speaker 22: complicity because of the small part that this cargo plays

2384
01:56:06,920 --> 01:56:10,640
Speaker 22: and its overall operations, and so you know, we're gonna

2385
01:56:11,400 --> 01:56:14,360
Speaker 22: we're trying to target ethical investment screens and get those

2386
01:56:14,400 --> 01:56:16,960
Speaker 22: implemented and added verse to it. And so you know,

2387
01:56:17,000 --> 01:56:19,640
Speaker 22: if you're a union, if you're a member of union,

2388
01:56:19,680 --> 01:56:21,520
Speaker 22: if you're a doc worker, if you're a student, you

2389
01:56:21,560 --> 01:56:24,200
Speaker 22: can become involved in this campaign. You can reach out

2390
01:56:24,200 --> 01:56:26,440
Speaker 22: to us and talk to us. I think what's going

2391
01:56:26,520 --> 01:56:29,280
Speaker 22: to be important is for us to organize democratically through

2392
01:56:29,360 --> 01:56:32,880
Speaker 22: the sectors, through these popular institutions like trade unions, to

2393
01:56:33,000 --> 01:56:37,200
Speaker 22: actually end this genocide, because I think I was listening

2394
01:56:37,200 --> 01:56:39,800
Speaker 22: to your show last week and there was an Israeli

2395
01:56:39,840 --> 01:56:42,160
Speaker 22: journalist on and he said he believes this war is

2396
01:56:42,160 --> 01:56:44,440
Speaker 22: going to last for a few years. The occupation of Goza,

2397
01:56:44,520 --> 01:56:47,240
Speaker 22: the starvation of an entire people is going to last

2398
01:56:47,280 --> 01:56:50,000
Speaker 22: for a few years. And I think it's on us

2399
01:56:50,160 --> 01:56:53,320
Speaker 22: people to implement this in arms and bargo, because it's

2400
01:56:53,360 --> 01:56:56,240
Speaker 22: not going to come from the US, and these rulings

2401
01:56:56,240 --> 01:56:59,080
Speaker 22: in the ICC or wherever are only as effectual as

2402
01:56:59,080 --> 01:57:02,000
Speaker 22: we make them, and so that's what our role will be.

2403
01:57:02,040 --> 01:57:05,680
Speaker 22: So I look forward to, you know, coming back on

2404
01:57:05,680 --> 01:57:07,960
Speaker 22: this show, sharing with you the developments as the mask

2405
01:57:07,960 --> 01:57:11,320
Speaker 22: off Meerce campaign continues to grow, and hopefully next time

2406
01:57:11,360 --> 01:57:14,640
Speaker 22: we talk it'll be about how MRSK ended its complicity

2407
01:57:14,640 --> 01:57:15,480
Speaker 22: in this genocide.

2408
01:57:15,640 --> 01:57:18,680
Speaker 2: I think it's a really important movement. Muhammed, thank you

2409
01:57:18,760 --> 01:57:21,000
Speaker 2: so much for your time, and we definitely definitely stay

2410
01:57:21,040 --> 01:57:22,720
Speaker 2: in touch with us and keep us updated about what's

2411
01:57:22,720 --> 01:57:23,040
Speaker 2: going on.

2412
01:57:23,800 --> 01:57:25,600
Speaker 12: Thank you, I appreciate you our pleasure.

2413
01:57:28,320 --> 01:57:31,240
Speaker 4: Crystal's going to be talking about the future of MSNBC,

2414
01:57:31,520 --> 01:57:33,680
Speaker 4: but I guess Crystal, this is a rare moment of

2415
01:57:33,720 --> 01:57:36,840
Speaker 4: agreement between you and Elon Musk because he is also

2416
01:57:37,600 --> 01:57:41,360
Speaker 4: really not confident that MSNBC is going to be able

2417
01:57:41,360 --> 01:57:44,200
Speaker 4: to sustain itself in this corporate restructure and the spinoff

2418
01:57:44,600 --> 01:57:47,600
Speaker 4: of properties that Comcast is doing right now, which leaves

2419
01:57:47,640 --> 01:57:50,440
Speaker 4: the fate of MSNBC hanging in the balance and also

2420
01:57:50,480 --> 01:57:51,240
Speaker 4: some other companies.

2421
01:57:51,320 --> 01:57:54,400
Speaker 2: Is not just MSNBC, but Kyle's very invested in the

2422
01:57:54,400 --> 01:57:56,560
Speaker 2: future of the Golf Channel is actually tied up in this.

2423
01:57:56,760 --> 01:57:58,520
Speaker 4: I'm not surprised to learn about that.

2424
01:57:58,600 --> 01:57:58,720
Speaker 20: Now.

2425
01:57:58,760 --> 01:58:01,120
Speaker 4: They didn't decide to spin off Bravo, which is huge

2426
01:58:01,120 --> 01:58:05,040
Speaker 4: news for that right, disruption to the housewif Kyle.

2427
01:58:04,880 --> 01:58:06,840
Speaker 2: Said, if they take away the Golf Channel, he's doing

2428
01:58:06,840 --> 01:58:10,680
Speaker 2: his own January sixth, it's on the record with that.

2429
01:58:11,080 --> 01:58:13,600
Speaker 4: But at Promcast headquarters, like he's in midtown with the

2430
01:58:13,640 --> 01:58:15,720
Speaker 4: brows and they're just taking their.

2431
01:58:15,680 --> 01:58:18,000
Speaker 5: Nine hours in a bunch of seventy year olds.

2432
01:58:19,120 --> 01:58:21,160
Speaker 4: Actually, that's exactly what would happen.

2433
01:58:21,280 --> 01:58:24,000
Speaker 5: And maybe you but that's a key Donald Trump base

2434
01:58:24,080 --> 01:58:24,440
Speaker 5: right there.

2435
01:58:24,520 --> 01:58:25,000
Speaker 4: That's true.

2436
01:58:25,360 --> 01:58:25,600
Speaker 17: Point.

2437
01:58:25,640 --> 01:58:29,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Trump loves the Golf Channel. The Golf Channel would

2438
01:58:29,080 --> 01:58:29,600
Speaker 2: come out fine.

2439
01:58:29,840 --> 01:58:33,320
Speaker 4: So Musk, though is appears to be you can never

2440
01:58:33,400 --> 01:58:35,400
Speaker 4: quite tell, but it appears to be flirting with a

2441
01:58:35,440 --> 01:58:38,560
Speaker 4: purchase of MSNBC. I'm not sure exactly how that would

2442
01:58:38,600 --> 01:58:40,360
Speaker 4: play out, but let's go ahead and put this first

2443
01:58:40,400 --> 01:58:43,600
Speaker 4: element up on the screen. The memes were relentless over

2444
01:58:43,600 --> 01:58:46,800
Speaker 4: the course of the weekend. So Donald Trump Junior said, Hey,

2445
01:58:46,840 --> 01:58:49,560
Speaker 4: Elon Musk, I have the funniest idea ever, in response

2446
01:58:49,640 --> 01:58:52,880
Speaker 4: to a post that said Comcast is putting MSNBC up

2447
01:58:52,920 --> 01:58:56,120
Speaker 4: for sale, CNN just announced massive playoffs coming. Maybe the

2448
01:58:56,120 --> 01:58:57,960
Speaker 4: new owners will figure out that lying NonStop to your

2449
01:58:57,960 --> 01:59:01,480
Speaker 4: audience is a lousy business model. Elon replies, how much

2450
01:59:01,520 --> 01:59:04,200
Speaker 4: does it cost? And then we can put the next

2451
01:59:04,240 --> 01:59:06,440
Speaker 4: meme on the screen, which is what greeted me as

2452
01:59:06,480 --> 01:59:10,360
Speaker 4: I was scrolling Twitter on Saturday morning. It says, if

2453
01:59:10,400 --> 01:59:12,320
Speaker 4: you're listening to this, you're missing on on a hell

2454
01:59:12,360 --> 01:59:15,080
Speaker 4: of a visual and lead us not on some temptation

2455
01:59:15,240 --> 01:59:18,080
Speaker 4: dot dot dot And it is a monk with the

2456
01:59:18,120 --> 01:59:21,360
Speaker 4: caption Elon mush trying not to buy, and a woman

2457
01:59:21,840 --> 01:59:30,640
Speaker 4: with the MSNBC logo obscuring her. Noother regions, just classy,

2458
01:59:30,880 --> 01:59:35,720
Speaker 4: Just make America classy again. And then I mean, it's

2459
01:59:35,760 --> 01:59:38,480
Speaker 4: just this has just been blowing up all weekend. Joe

2460
01:59:38,560 --> 01:59:43,120
Speaker 4: Rogan jumps in and says, if you buy MSNBC, I

2461
01:59:43,160 --> 01:59:45,320
Speaker 4: would like Rachel Maddow's job. I will wear the same

2462
01:59:45,360 --> 01:59:48,040
Speaker 4: outfit and glasses and I will tell the same lies.

2463
01:59:48,120 --> 01:59:51,800
Speaker 4: And Elon replied, deal with a fire emoji, a rocket emoji,

2464
01:59:51,840 --> 01:59:57,000
Speaker 4: and a laughing crying emoji. Crystal, as a resident MSNBC expert, Yes,

2465
01:59:57,960 --> 02:00:01,560
Speaker 4: how on a scale of love it to really love it?

2466
02:00:01,880 --> 02:00:04,960
Speaker 4: How much are you supporting Ela Musk BBC.

2467
02:00:05,160 --> 02:00:08,160
Speaker 2: I honestly feel like it's kind of irrelevant because, as

2468
02:00:08,160 --> 02:00:11,600
Speaker 2: I'm about to go into in depth, MSNBC like you

2469
02:00:11,680 --> 02:00:15,080
Speaker 2: did it already. It's already dead. Like, it's not going

2470
02:00:15,160 --> 02:00:18,520
Speaker 2: to occupy the same position. It may you know, hobble on,

2471
02:00:18,560 --> 02:00:21,720
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera, but they won't have the NBC

2472
02:00:22,200 --> 02:00:26,520
Speaker 2: News journalistic resources behind them. So then they're just you know,

2473
02:00:26,560 --> 02:00:29,880
Speaker 2: a bunch of like not that interesting talking heads and

2474
02:00:29,920 --> 02:00:33,520
Speaker 2: their whole theory of the world has been destroyed by

2475
02:00:33,560 --> 02:00:36,080
Speaker 2: Donald Trump winning and by then Joe Amica going and

2476
02:00:36,120 --> 02:00:38,120
Speaker 2: like bending the knee. So like, if you're not about

2477
02:00:38,160 --> 02:00:42,000
Speaker 2: Trump resistance, what are you exactly? And you know, they

2478
02:00:42,080 --> 02:00:44,320
Speaker 2: face the same business trends that all the cable news

2479
02:00:44,320 --> 02:00:47,840
Speaker 2: nets face. Fox News is in a better position simply

2480
02:00:47,880 --> 02:00:49,960
Speaker 2: because they have a larger audience, but these are all

2481
02:00:50,080 --> 02:00:54,600
Speaker 2: aging demographics declining year over year. People are moving to

2482
02:00:54,680 --> 02:00:57,120
Speaker 2: the podcast world. You know, this is the podcast election.

2483
02:00:57,240 --> 02:01:00,560
Speaker 2: Independent media is only going to grow. Gear garantee that

2484
02:01:00,760 --> 02:01:02,840
Speaker 2: landscape is superior by the way to the one that

2485
02:01:02,880 --> 02:01:05,200
Speaker 2: we already have. But I just don't know why you

2486
02:01:05,240 --> 02:01:08,040
Speaker 2: would buy this asset at this point, no matter who

2487
02:01:08,120 --> 02:01:11,520
Speaker 2: you are, when it's already effectively been neutralized in terms

2488
02:01:11,560 --> 02:01:13,480
Speaker 2: of the ideological warfare space.

2489
02:01:13,760 --> 02:01:17,880
Speaker 4: Well, this is also the entire kind of conversation surrounding

2490
02:01:18,080 --> 02:01:22,120
Speaker 4: X and Elon Musk's buying X was that these sort

2491
02:01:22,120 --> 02:01:26,560
Speaker 4: of old media properties are dead compared with places like

2492
02:01:26,680 --> 02:01:29,480
Speaker 4: social media, and he's he brought Tucker onto X for example,

2493
02:01:29,560 --> 02:01:32,920
Speaker 4: because it's exactly it's more powerful than Fox News in

2494
02:01:32,960 --> 02:01:36,120
Speaker 4: theory if you're able to have a massive audience, and

2495
02:01:36,160 --> 02:01:38,360
Speaker 4: it's more sustainable in the long term if you're able

2496
02:01:38,400 --> 02:01:40,800
Speaker 4: to have a massive audience. Now, I think CNN has

2497
02:01:40,800 --> 02:01:44,440
Speaker 4: recently gotten sort of smart about how their off ramp

2498
02:01:44,520 --> 02:01:47,800
Speaker 4: could look. They do big numbers on YouTube, Like there's

2499
02:01:47,880 --> 02:01:51,120
Speaker 4: there's some recognition at some of these old sort of

2500
02:01:51,120 --> 02:01:55,839
Speaker 4: dinosaur businesses that there's something they can kind of transfer,

2501
02:01:55,960 --> 02:01:57,840
Speaker 4: they can do both at the same time. For now.

2502
02:01:58,720 --> 02:02:01,960
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's actually case, but they're trying.

2503
02:02:02,520 --> 02:02:05,160
Speaker 4: MSNBC is not one of those places. And I don't

2504
02:02:05,200 --> 02:02:07,120
Speaker 4: know why it would be worth it for Elon Musk, even,

2505
02:02:07,280 --> 02:02:08,760
Speaker 4: I mean, he clearly thinks it would be worth it

2506
02:02:08,800 --> 02:02:09,440
Speaker 4: just for the memes.

2507
02:02:09,760 --> 02:02:11,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess maybe.

2508
02:02:11,920 --> 02:02:13,680
Speaker 2: I guess that'd be the only thing that'd be worth

2509
02:02:13,800 --> 02:02:15,960
Speaker 2: worth of work, because I mean, you already have plenty

2510
02:02:16,000 --> 02:02:21,720
Speaker 2: of conservative, ideological, conservative pro Trump media out there, like

2511
02:02:21,760 --> 02:02:24,040
Speaker 2: adding one more to the list I don't think is

2512
02:02:24,080 --> 02:02:27,800
Speaker 2: really going to particularly help their cause. Much savvier in

2513
02:02:27,880 --> 02:02:30,120
Speaker 2: terms of the ideological project was buying Twitter. So I

2514
02:02:30,160 --> 02:02:31,800
Speaker 2: don't know if he's serious about this stuff or not,

2515
02:02:31,920 --> 02:02:33,400
Speaker 2: but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

2516
02:02:33,440 --> 02:02:35,560
Speaker 4: Well, you know what's interesting is CNBC is also being

2517
02:02:35,560 --> 02:02:38,920
Speaker 4: spun off and Donald Trump apparently really likes CNBC, is

2518
02:02:39,000 --> 02:02:42,920
Speaker 4: like newly in love with CNBC, And so, I mean,

2519
02:02:42,960 --> 02:02:45,200
Speaker 4: there's something I think that's actually kind of interesting. If

2520
02:02:45,200 --> 02:02:47,960
Speaker 4: there's something that could potentially be done with someone, I

2521
02:02:47,960 --> 02:02:49,800
Speaker 4: don't think it would be Elon Musk, but like you

2522
02:02:49,840 --> 02:02:52,280
Speaker 4: would have to have someone a quote unquote disruptor who

2523
02:02:52,320 --> 02:02:54,560
Speaker 4: recognizes that the future of cable news is not super

2524
02:02:54,600 --> 02:02:56,880
Speaker 4: sustainable at the level that it's at, and that would

2525
02:02:56,880 --> 02:02:59,640
Speaker 4: require like really dramatic you might have to actually do

2526
02:02:59,680 --> 02:03:03,800
Speaker 4: a n plus because as ridiculous as it sounds, that's

2527
02:03:03,800 --> 02:03:06,720
Speaker 4: always my least popular take of the last several years

2528
02:03:06,760 --> 02:03:09,200
Speaker 4: is that CNN plus was not the dumbest thing in

2529
02:03:09,240 --> 02:03:11,920
Speaker 4: the world. It was implemented in the dumbest possible way,

2530
02:03:12,000 --> 02:03:14,520
Speaker 4: but like they were they saw what Fox Nation was doing,

2531
02:03:14,520 --> 02:03:18,040
Speaker 4: which was getting people to subscribe because that ad money.

2532
02:03:18,200 --> 02:03:20,480
Speaker 4: The ad revenue for cable is going to dry up,

2533
02:03:20,560 --> 02:03:23,720
Speaker 4: so you just need to be looking at different revenue streams.

2534
02:03:23,760 --> 02:03:25,320
Speaker 4: And so if you have someone that's actually going to

2535
02:03:25,400 --> 02:03:29,120
Speaker 4: do it, maybe you can turn it around. But the staff,

2536
02:03:29,160 --> 02:03:32,080
Speaker 4: the hosts. Part of the reason, I guess is like

2537
02:03:32,560 --> 02:03:34,720
Speaker 4: the Morning Joe hosts are making tons.

2538
02:03:34,480 --> 02:03:36,480
Speaker 5: Of money, oh tons, I mean that's fun.

2539
02:03:37,280 --> 02:03:40,240
Speaker 2: And not just the host, but the operation there is

2540
02:03:40,280 --> 02:03:44,240
Speaker 2: so much larger, right, the number of production staff, the

2541
02:03:44,280 --> 02:03:47,400
Speaker 2: overhead of the you know, the sets and the design

2542
02:03:47,520 --> 02:03:49,720
Speaker 2: and the hair and the makeup and all those things.

2543
02:03:50,320 --> 02:03:53,320
Speaker 2: It's just like the business model does not business anymore.

2544
02:03:53,400 --> 02:03:57,080
Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense, you know when especially you no

2545
02:03:57,120 --> 02:04:00,480
Speaker 2: longer have news gathering resources. Okay, then just in the

2546
02:04:00,520 --> 02:04:03,440
Speaker 2: hot take game, like you know Rando on YouTube with

2547
02:04:03,440 --> 02:04:06,040
Speaker 2: a microphone and a camera, who is spending nothing on production.

2548
02:04:06,600 --> 02:04:11,240
Speaker 2: So none of these people, I shouldn't say none, very

2549
02:04:11,280 --> 02:04:15,040
Speaker 2: few of these people have their own organic audiences that

2550
02:04:15,120 --> 02:04:17,520
Speaker 2: will follow them to wherever. I think Rachel Mattow is

2551
02:04:17,560 --> 02:04:19,640
Speaker 2: an exception to that. There may be a few others,

2552
02:04:20,040 --> 02:04:23,960
Speaker 2: but by and large people watch because you were on

2553
02:04:24,040 --> 02:04:24,879
Speaker 2: this network.

2554
02:04:25,000 --> 02:04:25,440
Speaker 4: That's it.

2555
02:04:25,960 --> 02:04:27,920
Speaker 2: And so if you pull them out of that space,

2556
02:04:28,000 --> 02:04:29,760
Speaker 2: and they're trying to make it in the wild West

2557
02:04:29,880 --> 02:04:32,320
Speaker 2: with all the rest of us, like good Luck.

2558
02:04:32,440 --> 02:04:33,920
Speaker 4: They have a couple of big podcasts, by the way,

2559
02:04:33,960 --> 02:04:36,800
Speaker 4: that's one thing that always gets overlooked about MSNBC. They've

2560
02:04:36,840 --> 02:04:38,320
Speaker 4: been sort of successful in that space.

2561
02:04:38,400 --> 02:04:41,040
Speaker 5: But Rachel has a podcast that does well right right now.

2562
02:04:41,200 --> 02:04:42,960
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's actually an MSNBC or an

2563
02:04:43,040 --> 02:04:46,440
Speaker 4: NBC product though, because she has distinction.

2564
02:04:46,480 --> 02:04:49,720
Speaker 2: And she has her own production company, I don't know

2565
02:04:49,760 --> 02:04:53,240
Speaker 2: if the podcast is like her thing in collaboration with

2566
02:04:53,400 --> 02:04:54,720
Speaker 2: MSNBC or what.

2567
02:04:55,200 --> 02:04:56,760
Speaker 4: I don't really it's a greatquestion, but I mean.

2568
02:04:56,760 --> 02:05:02,280
Speaker 2: Former MSNBC head Phil Griffin runs her production company for

2569
02:05:02,440 --> 02:05:03,680
Speaker 2: like her long form stuff.

2570
02:05:03,720 --> 02:05:07,360
Speaker 4: Oh, this is actually an MSNBC production production. And that's again,

2571
02:05:07,400 --> 02:05:09,720
Speaker 4: like this is all relevant because to your point, so

2572
02:05:09,800 --> 02:05:11,680
Speaker 4: much of what was MSNBC. I know you're going to

2573
02:05:11,680 --> 02:05:13,520
Speaker 4: talk about this in a second, but it's based on

2574
02:05:13,560 --> 02:05:15,880
Speaker 4: the relationship with NBC News and so much of the

2575
02:05:15,920 --> 02:05:18,560
Speaker 4: resources comes from NBC News. So much of it is

2576
02:05:18,600 --> 02:05:20,400
Speaker 4: like a house of cards. It's like built on the

2577
02:05:20,400 --> 02:05:23,440
Speaker 4: foundation of NBC News. Without that, you're in trouble.

2578
02:05:26,480 --> 02:05:29,840
Speaker 2: So MSNBC appears to be in total free fall as

2579
02:05:29,960 --> 02:05:33,520
Speaker 2: ratings decline. Comcast announces a spinoff, and we've just learned

2580
02:05:33,520 --> 02:05:36,640
Speaker 2: their biggest star, Racil Mattow, is taking a multi million

2581
02:05:36,760 --> 02:05:39,720
Speaker 2: dollar pay cut. Things are so rough that, as we

2582
02:05:39,720 --> 02:05:43,000
Speaker 2: were just discussing, Elon Musk is even joking question Mark

2583
02:05:43,040 --> 02:05:45,680
Speaker 2: about buying the network outright. It's hard to see what

2584
02:05:45,680 --> 02:05:47,160
Speaker 2: the point of that would be, though, since there isn't

2585
02:05:47,200 --> 02:05:49,280
Speaker 2: much left of the place to catch and kill. An

2586
02:05:49,360 --> 02:05:52,680
Speaker 2: article from Lachlann Cartwright on the Ankler Substack lays out

2587
02:05:52,680 --> 02:05:54,600
Speaker 2: the state of panic and chaos that has grow uped

2588
02:05:54,600 --> 02:05:57,400
Speaker 2: the network post election. In addition to getting the scoop

2589
02:05:57,440 --> 02:06:00,160
Speaker 2: about Mattow accepting a salary cut from thirty million to

2590
02:06:00,240 --> 02:06:03,120
Speaker 2: twenty five million. I know, poor thing right, Lachlan also

2591
02:06:03,120 --> 02:06:06,360
Speaker 2: scoops that multiple anchors, including Rubber Al Sharp and Jonathan

2592
02:06:06,440 --> 02:06:10,400
Speaker 2: K Park, could be on the chopping block entirely, apparently

2593
02:06:10,440 --> 02:06:12,960
Speaker 2: in a tense meaning. With the new spinoff company leadership

2594
02:06:13,000 --> 02:06:16,480
Speaker 2: Mark Lazarus, there were more questions than answers about how

2595
02:06:16,520 --> 02:06:19,080
Speaker 2: the network would operate and what the future held for

2596
02:06:19,200 --> 02:06:22,480
Speaker 2: the network's talent, especially those people like Peter Alexander who

2597
02:06:22,520 --> 02:06:23,720
Speaker 2: pulled double duty over.

2598
02:06:23,600 --> 02:06:25,600
Speaker 5: At NBC and MSNBC.

2599
02:06:25,960 --> 02:06:29,160
Speaker 2: They mused about whether perhaps the network could partner with

2600
02:06:29,200 --> 02:06:31,920
Speaker 2: an outlook like maybe the Washington Post to handle news gatherings,

2601
02:06:31,960 --> 02:06:36,600
Speaker 2: since NBC's journalistic resources would be staying with the parent company, Comcast.

2602
02:06:37,040 --> 02:06:39,000
Speaker 2: The whole thing is a giant cluster, and the details

2603
02:06:39,040 --> 02:06:42,040
Speaker 2: are pretty interesting, but ultimately maybe not all that important,

2604
02:06:42,280 --> 02:06:44,760
Speaker 2: because while the network might continue for some time in

2605
02:06:44,800 --> 02:06:47,800
Speaker 2: some form or another, it may look and feel something

2606
02:06:47,920 --> 02:06:51,640
Speaker 2: like what MSNBC has been. That previous network is now dead.

2607
02:06:52,000 --> 02:06:54,240
Speaker 2: It's gone, and it wouldn't surprise me if the whole

2608
02:06:54,240 --> 02:06:57,320
Speaker 2: thing actually just collapsed, as surely as neoliberalism has been

2609
02:06:57,320 --> 02:07:00,800
Speaker 2: dealt a final crushing blow by Trump's victory. One thing

2610
02:07:00,880 --> 02:07:03,720
Speaker 2: is for sure. MSNBC will no longer serve the role

2611
02:07:03,760 --> 02:07:06,440
Speaker 2: that it once did as perhaps the most significant space

2612
02:07:06,480 --> 02:07:10,880
Speaker 2: of liberal consensus making. Here, like nowhere else, consent was

2613
02:07:10,920 --> 02:07:14,560
Speaker 2: manufactured among the Democratic Party's liberal base with a worldview

2614
02:07:14,600 --> 02:07:17,879
Speaker 2: and tactical philosophy that was dictated by the party's elites.

2615
02:07:18,240 --> 02:07:21,880
Speaker 2: No more, with its worldview and credibility shattered, it will

2616
02:07:21,880 --> 02:07:25,640
Speaker 2: now at best be one among many competing ideological spaces

2617
02:07:25,680 --> 02:07:28,560
Speaker 2: alongside riffraffle like yours truly, and many others in the

2618
02:07:28,600 --> 02:07:32,000
Speaker 2: alternative media space. And you know what's funny, It wasn't

2619
02:07:32,120 --> 02:07:35,600
Speaker 2: actually Donald Trump who put the final nail in MSNBC's coffin,

2620
02:07:35,640 --> 02:07:38,480
Speaker 2: though he certainly held pace in their decline. The crushing

2621
02:07:38,560 --> 02:07:42,080
Speaker 2: blow came from some of the network's biggest stars, Joe

2622
02:07:42,080 --> 02:07:46,120
Speaker 2: Scarborough and Mika Brazinski. With a single act of cowardly

2623
02:07:46,160 --> 02:07:49,880
Speaker 2: self preservation and capitulation of Donald Trump, they revealed to

2624
02:07:49,960 --> 02:07:53,640
Speaker 2: the entire MSNBC liberal audience what a bunch of spineless

2625
02:07:53,720 --> 02:07:57,040
Speaker 2: frauds they actually are when they decided to turn on

2626
02:07:57,080 --> 02:07:59,880
Speaker 2: a dime. From calling Trump Hitler st voyaging to Marl

2627
02:08:00,040 --> 02:08:02,680
Speaker 2: I go to kiss the ring, they knoked not only

2628
02:08:02,840 --> 02:08:06,760
Speaker 2: their credibility, but that of the entire network, exposing in

2629
02:08:06,840 --> 02:08:10,440
Speaker 2: a single act, how their entire cosplay a brave resistance

2630
02:08:10,480 --> 02:08:13,240
Speaker 2: over eight years was really just for show and for

2631
02:08:13,320 --> 02:08:16,480
Speaker 2: personal benefit. Last week for Crystal Colin Fronts, I interviewed

2632
02:08:16,520 --> 02:08:19,840
Speaker 2: a former Morning Joe regular, Steve Schmidt, and he was

2633
02:08:20,000 --> 02:08:23,760
Speaker 2: scathing in his assessment of what that pair had become.

2634
02:08:23,920 --> 02:08:25,000
Speaker 5: Take a listen, and.

2635
02:08:24,960 --> 02:08:28,520
Speaker 24: There's additional reporting and I wrote about it today from

2636
02:08:28,600 --> 02:08:30,520
Speaker 24: Puck News that the.

2637
02:08:30,400 --> 02:08:33,520
Speaker 12: Motivation, of course for this is fear.

2638
02:08:34,120 --> 02:08:39,480
Speaker 24: They're terrified, and they went down tomorrow Lago and they

2639
02:08:39,520 --> 02:08:42,839
Speaker 24: did what they had to do to cover and protect

2640
02:08:42,840 --> 02:08:47,040
Speaker 24: their asses, which is not the thing to do if

2641
02:08:47,080 --> 02:08:52,600
Speaker 24: you hold a seat which you hold with importance in

2642
02:08:52,680 --> 02:09:00,840
Speaker 24: the hierarchy of American journalism. So Mika justified this by

2643
02:09:00,960 --> 02:09:07,560
Speaker 24: saying it's a big new Brazenski a poll. The Jimmy

2644
02:09:07,600 --> 02:09:14,879
Speaker 24: Carter era National Security Advisor would have appreciated this because

2645
02:09:14,920 --> 02:09:19,040
Speaker 24: he was a diplomat, and he would have processed this

2646
02:09:19,560 --> 02:09:24,560
Speaker 24: as a diplomatic act nonsense. He would have regarded it

2647
02:09:25,080 --> 02:09:29,560
Speaker 24: as a capitulan act. He would have seen it for

2648
02:09:29,760 --> 02:09:35,200
Speaker 24: exactly what it was. And it has created a profound

2649
02:09:35,360 --> 02:09:41,400
Speaker 24: crisis of credibility at MSNBC, which actually won't exist for

2650
02:09:41,560 --> 02:09:44,880
Speaker 24: very much longer at all as we enter into the

2651
02:09:44,920 --> 02:09:47,000
Speaker 24: early hours of the Trump administration.

2652
02:09:47,520 --> 02:09:48,840
Speaker 5: Crisis of credibility.

2653
02:09:48,920 --> 02:09:50,160
Speaker 2: Let me just take a little bit of time to

2654
02:09:50,200 --> 02:09:53,320
Speaker 2: explain why Joan Mika's act was so devastating, because that

2655
02:09:53,360 --> 02:09:56,200
Speaker 2: matters for what is going to happen next. So MSBC

2656
02:09:56,520 --> 02:09:59,560
Speaker 2: had a particular ideology and worldview in the Trump era

2657
02:09:59,640 --> 02:10:04,240
Speaker 2: which was very tightly controlled. This worldview had two central tenants.

2658
02:10:04,440 --> 02:10:08,280
Speaker 2: Number one, opposition to Trump is everything. Every issue position

2659
02:10:08,360 --> 02:10:11,240
Speaker 2: is defined in reaction to Trump. Every candidate is analyzed

2660
02:10:11,240 --> 02:10:13,600
Speaker 2: in relation to how they feel about Trump. This is

2661
02:10:13,640 --> 02:10:15,640
Speaker 2: how you end up with a bizarre world which Liz

2662
02:10:15,720 --> 02:10:18,600
Speaker 2: Cheney's a hero because she hates Trump, and white working

2663
02:10:18,600 --> 02:10:21,160
Speaker 2: class men writ large our villains because they tend to

2664
02:10:21,240 --> 02:10:24,560
Speaker 2: vote for Trump. Number two, the way to defeat Trump

2665
02:10:24,680 --> 02:10:30,040
Speaker 2: runs through establishment democratic politicians in collaboration with never Trump resistors.

2666
02:10:30,600 --> 02:10:33,400
Speaker 2: Any candidate or issue set that colors outside the lines

2667
02:10:33,400 --> 02:10:36,879
Speaker 2: of Clinton's style triangulation is to be rejected as unsafe

2668
02:10:36,920 --> 02:10:40,600
Speaker 2: and unseerious for the task of defeating Donald Trump. If

2669
02:10:40,600 --> 02:10:43,960
Speaker 2: he didn't agree with those two central tenants that Trump

2670
02:10:44,040 --> 02:10:46,200
Speaker 2: was everything and that the way to defeat Trump was

2671
02:10:46,240 --> 02:10:49,400
Speaker 2: established with Democrats, you would not last long on that network,

2672
02:10:49,440 --> 02:10:51,160
Speaker 2: to the extent that you made it there at all.

2673
02:10:51,520 --> 02:10:54,240
Speaker 2: In this calculus, Nicole Wallace, who cheered for the Iraq War,

2674
02:10:54,360 --> 02:10:58,000
Speaker 2: was a hero and welcome ideological fellow traveler, and someone

2675
02:10:58,080 --> 02:11:00,320
Speaker 2: well maybe like me who thought the way to defeat

2676
02:11:00,320 --> 02:11:03,440
Speaker 2: fascism was through social democracy, just as FDR did, was

2677
02:11:03,520 --> 02:11:07,080
Speaker 2: a villain. The one two punch of Trump winning and

2678
02:11:07,160 --> 02:11:10,680
Speaker 2: Joe and make us capitulation to Trump detonated both of

2679
02:11:10,720 --> 02:11:15,000
Speaker 2: those pillars which were holding up the entire MSNBC universe.

2680
02:11:15,520 --> 02:11:18,200
Speaker 2: So their theory for how to beat Trump was totally

2681
02:11:18,240 --> 02:11:21,640
Speaker 2: broken and their posture as brave resistance to Trump was

2682
02:11:21,760 --> 02:11:26,879
Speaker 2: utterly shattered. Trump destroyed their theory that establishment Democrat politics

2683
02:11:26,920 --> 02:11:30,240
Speaker 2: was the way to win, the key to electability. Kamala

2684
02:11:30,320 --> 02:11:34,160
Speaker 2: ran the platonic ideal of that MSNBC campaign. She ran

2685
02:11:34,200 --> 02:11:37,160
Speaker 2: to the center, She bragged about her glock, She pivoted

2686
02:11:37,240 --> 02:11:40,040
Speaker 2: hard ride on immigration, She even buried her own popular

2687
02:11:40,080 --> 02:11:42,920
Speaker 2: price gouging proposals, and ran around the country with the

2688
02:11:43,000 --> 02:11:45,920
Speaker 2: likes of Liz Cheney, Bill Clin and Richie Torres. And

2689
02:11:46,000 --> 02:11:48,240
Speaker 2: the corporate tists can run around all they want trying

2690
02:11:48,240 --> 02:11:50,200
Speaker 2: to blame the left for this campaign, but this was

2691
02:11:50,240 --> 02:11:53,560
Speaker 2: their candidate and their campaign, their tactics, their consultants, their media.

2692
02:11:53,360 --> 02:11:55,840
Speaker 5: Approach, all of it. They own it.

2693
02:11:56,400 --> 02:11:59,640
Speaker 2: And their theory that this establishment approach was the way

2694
02:11:59,680 --> 02:12:03,840
Speaker 2: to defeat Trump was so incontrovertibly destroyed that even people

2695
02:12:03,880 --> 02:12:07,320
Speaker 2: like Chris Murphy and David Brooks have been forced to admit,

2696
02:12:07,400 --> 02:12:10,240
Speaker 2: you know what, maybe, just maybe Bernie had a little

2697
02:12:10,280 --> 02:12:12,960
Speaker 2: bit of a point. Joe and Mika's decision to run

2698
02:12:13,000 --> 02:12:14,960
Speaker 2: to Trump to bend the knee provided the death Now

2699
02:12:15,080 --> 02:12:18,880
Speaker 2: for the other pillar of the MSNBC worldview that resistance

2700
02:12:18,920 --> 02:12:22,120
Speaker 2: to Trump is everything. If the network is no longer

2701
02:12:22,160 --> 02:12:25,600
Speaker 2: about opposing Trump, what is this network about at all?

2702
02:12:26,200 --> 02:12:28,720
Speaker 2: The whole thing, including the universe of heros and villains,

2703
02:12:28,720 --> 02:12:31,000
Speaker 2: and which issues matter and which don't. All of that

2704
02:12:31,040 --> 02:12:34,520
Speaker 2: dependent on Trump as the ultimate final boss of politics.

2705
02:12:34,960 --> 02:12:37,440
Speaker 2: It's what could unify Joy Reid and Chris Hayes are

2706
02:12:37,440 --> 02:12:40,320
Speaker 2: more or less left liberals with Republicans like Nicole Wallace

2707
02:12:40,320 --> 02:12:43,400
Speaker 2: and Joe Scarborough. Now Joe and Mika are running around

2708
02:12:43,440 --> 02:12:46,800
Speaker 2: talking about working on common ground with Donald Trump. What

2709
02:12:47,000 --> 02:12:49,360
Speaker 2: common ground could there be with a man that weeks

2710
02:12:49,400 --> 02:12:54,480
Speaker 2: ago they were calling literal hitler. Unfortunately, as Adam Johnson writes,

2711
02:12:55,320 --> 02:12:57,440
Speaker 2: there are actually plenty of various where Joe and Meeka

2712
02:12:57,440 --> 02:12:59,720
Speaker 2: and other establishment Democrats may be happy to collaborate with

2713
02:12:59,720 --> 02:13:02,640
Speaker 2: Trump in all of the worst ways possible. After all,

2714
02:13:02,640 --> 02:13:05,200
Speaker 2: Morning Joe was as deranged as any program when it

2715
02:13:05,240 --> 02:13:08,080
Speaker 2: came to cracking down on pro Palestine protesters, marring them

2716
02:13:08,120 --> 02:13:12,600
Speaker 2: as antisemitic, demanding crackdowns on speech. Some Democrats already happily

2717
02:13:12,640 --> 02:13:16,200
Speaker 2: handing Trump power to dismantle any nonprofit group he deems

2718
02:13:16,240 --> 02:13:19,800
Speaker 2: to be supporting terrorism. Already, of course, we've seen Democrats

2719
02:13:19,840 --> 02:13:22,840
Speaker 2: except the Trumpian worldview that pins the nation's ills on

2720
02:13:22,960 --> 02:13:26,800
Speaker 2: immigrants and seeks a brutal crackdown on migration. I'm sure

2721
02:13:26,800 --> 02:13:28,800
Speaker 2: they'll be happy to find common ground as well on

2722
02:13:28,880 --> 02:13:32,760
Speaker 2: social safety netcuts of the type contemplated by Elon. After all,

2723
02:13:33,080 --> 02:13:36,200
Speaker 2: Morning Joe is the same show that slabberd all over

2724
02:13:36,240 --> 02:13:39,320
Speaker 2: Paul Ryan and treated him like the golden boy of politics.

2725
02:13:39,640 --> 02:13:42,320
Speaker 2: I am quite confident Joe and Mika will also be

2726
02:13:42,400 --> 02:13:44,760
Speaker 2: happy to cheer lead the next war as well, since

2727
02:13:44,760 --> 02:13:47,520
Speaker 2: they've i think literally never seen a war they didn't

2728
02:13:47,520 --> 02:13:51,000
Speaker 2: think we should endlessly fight. And of course they can

2729
02:13:51,040 --> 02:13:54,600
Speaker 2: find common ground in their obsession with power Trump in

2730
02:13:54,680 --> 02:13:58,720
Speaker 2: having it, Joe and Mika in orbiting, flattering and groveling

2731
02:13:58,800 --> 02:14:02,000
Speaker 2: at its feet. Now whether their show even continues in

2732
02:14:02,040 --> 02:14:04,200
Speaker 2: the new post spinoff world in order to explore all

2733
02:14:04,240 --> 02:14:07,680
Speaker 2: of this copious common ground, and that's another question, since already,

2734
02:14:08,040 --> 02:14:11,520
Speaker 2: even as the shows continue in truth, only rubble remains.

2735
02:14:11,520 --> 02:14:16,120
Speaker 2: After the ideological underpinnings have collapsed. Now, if MSMBC was

2736
02:14:16,160 --> 02:14:18,960
Speaker 2: actually a liberal outlet, I would experience its.

2737
02:14:18,840 --> 02:14:19,600
Speaker 5: Death as a loss.

2738
02:14:19,640 --> 02:14:23,080
Speaker 2: After all, liberalism as an ideology has plenty of failings,

2739
02:14:23,080 --> 02:14:26,360
Speaker 2: but also some strengths. Liberal journalism has continued to make

2740
02:14:26,400 --> 02:14:28,879
Speaker 2: important contributions in the Trump years, and in the absence

2741
02:14:28,880 --> 02:14:33,120
Speaker 2: of anything approaching a mainstream anti capitalist media, liberalism serves

2742
02:14:33,120 --> 02:14:36,360
Speaker 2: an important role as an adversarial force towards Trump himself

2743
02:14:36,520 --> 02:14:40,880
Speaker 2: and trump Ism as an ideology. Sometimes too genuinely brave

2744
02:14:40,920 --> 02:14:45,320
Speaker 2: commentary did also slip through the cracks. On MSNBC, for example,

2745
02:14:45,400 --> 02:14:47,520
Speaker 2: is the only place where you could find any significant

2746
02:14:47,520 --> 02:14:51,440
Speaker 2: criticism of the Israeli genocide in Gaza. But MSNBC's goal

2747
02:14:51,680 --> 02:14:54,560
Speaker 2: was not to advance a liberal ideology. It was to

2748
02:14:54,640 --> 02:14:57,680
Speaker 2: advance and protect a corrupt Democratic Party elite. And that's

2749
02:14:57,720 --> 02:15:00,240
Speaker 2: the reason why there is very little to moar in

2750
02:15:00,280 --> 02:15:04,160
Speaker 2: their death. It's bitterly ironic that the very network most

2751
02:15:04,200 --> 02:15:07,400
Speaker 2: centered around defeating Trump did the most to grease the

2752
02:15:07,440 --> 02:15:10,919
Speaker 2: skids for his ascent by blocking the Bernie left populist

2753
02:15:10,960 --> 02:15:15,080
Speaker 2: movement most equipped to actually rival Trump's ideological project. They

2754
02:15:15,160 --> 02:15:18,280
Speaker 2: wanted to beat Trump and protect their executive's class interests.

2755
02:15:18,560 --> 02:15:21,440
Speaker 2: Those two goals were mutually exclusive, and when it came

2756
02:15:21,520 --> 02:15:24,080
Speaker 2: down to it, the goal of protecting their class interests

2757
02:15:24,200 --> 02:15:26,440
Speaker 2: was vastly more important to them than the goal of

2758
02:15:26,440 --> 02:15:29,960
Speaker 2: defeating Trump. Now the pathword for media to me kind

2759
02:15:29,960 --> 02:15:32,320
Speaker 2: of mirrors that of the country at large. Most likely

2760
02:15:32,360 --> 02:15:34,440
Speaker 2: everything is just going to continue to get worse. That's

2761
02:15:34,520 --> 02:15:37,840
Speaker 2: most likely outcome the gutting of mainstream mountlets round leading

2762
02:15:37,880 --> 02:15:41,080
Speaker 2: to some flourishing a vibrant, honest, courageous independent media instead

2763
02:15:41,160 --> 02:15:43,400
Speaker 2: leads to a bunch of even more shamelessly corrupts, the

2764
02:15:43,440 --> 02:15:47,360
Speaker 2: cathantic slop as liberals brush themselves off and look around,

2765
02:15:47,440 --> 02:15:49,760
Speaker 2: they could easily be consumed by a liberal version of

2766
02:15:49,800 --> 02:15:53,000
Speaker 2: the same deranged conspiracy nonsense and partisan cheerleading that right

2767
02:15:53,000 --> 02:15:56,400
Speaker 2: wing influencers find so much money and success pedaling. As

2768
02:15:56,440 --> 02:16:00,760
Speaker 2: trust in mainstream institutions faded, Charlatan's poured in, it feels

2769
02:16:00,840 --> 02:16:03,320
Speaker 2: like we're plunging deeper into a post reality world, and

2770
02:16:03,320 --> 02:16:05,760
Speaker 2: liberals gave us a preview and Russiagate of how easily

2771
02:16:06,040 --> 02:16:09,200
Speaker 2: they could be swept up by fantasy and delusion. But

2772
02:16:09,240 --> 02:16:12,880
Speaker 2: Trump's win has also created a possibility for something new

2773
02:16:13,040 --> 02:16:16,560
Speaker 2: and better that wasn't there before without the liberal establishment

2774
02:16:16,560 --> 02:16:19,960
Speaker 2: media enforcers. What could grow organically left of center that

2775
02:16:20,120 --> 02:16:23,160
Speaker 2: might effectively rival trump Ism? What would that look like,

2776
02:16:23,880 --> 02:16:26,600
Speaker 2: What candidates could gain traction, what issues could be champion,

2777
02:16:26,840 --> 02:16:31,040
Speaker 2: what media outlets could gain purchase traction? Genuine sway. MSNBC

2778
02:16:31,280 --> 02:16:34,480
Speaker 2: was the central weapon for convincing liberals the caring about

2779
02:16:34,520 --> 02:16:38,480
Speaker 2: things like, well, I don't know, healthcare, unions, wages, housing,

2780
02:16:38,840 --> 02:16:41,080
Speaker 2: that all of that was a luxury, that wanting a

2781
02:16:41,200 --> 02:16:45,400
Speaker 2: genuinely democratic process to select a candidate was pure frivolity,

2782
02:16:45,840 --> 02:16:49,040
Speaker 2: all distractions which could hobble the party in their quest

2783
02:16:49,320 --> 02:16:52,560
Speaker 2: to defeat the ultimate bad guy Trump. Now, as it

2784
02:16:52,600 --> 02:16:56,440
Speaker 2: turns out, delivering for people materially and modeling a commitment

2785
02:16:56,480 --> 02:17:00,800
Speaker 2: to democracy were critical in that fight for democracy against Trump.

2786
02:17:01,440 --> 02:17:05,520
Speaker 2: If not for msmec's years of gaslighting and manipulation, pretty

2787
02:17:05,560 --> 02:17:08,840
Speaker 2: sure that would have been obvious, and now perhaps it

2788
02:17:08,920 --> 02:17:12,120
Speaker 2: will be. Although in Trump's business career he was a builder,

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02:17:12,160 --> 02:17:15,600
Speaker 2: in politics, he really knows how to destroy. Might something

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02:17:15,720 --> 02:17:18,760
Speaker 2: better be built in the rubble. We've got no choice

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Speaker 2: now but to find out, and Emily it really is.

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02:17:22,600 --> 02:17:25,359
Speaker 3: And if you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue.

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02:17:25,360 --> 02:17:28,440
Speaker 3: Become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com.

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02:17:28,560 --> 02:17:31,200
Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much for watching. If you're able

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02:17:31,200 --> 02:17:33,400
Speaker 2: to support us over at Breakingpoints dot com, that would

2796
02:17:33,440 --> 02:17:36,360
Speaker 2: be amazing. Help us do more things like the cool

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02:17:36,400 --> 02:17:38,600
Speaker 2: focus group with AOC Trump voters.

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Speaker 5: Getting to talk to them. Really I got a lot

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Speaker 5: out of that. I hope you guys enjoyed that as well.

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02:17:41,720 --> 02:17:44,600
Speaker 2: And if you cannot subscribe or you're already a subscriber,

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02:17:44,640 --> 02:17:46,840
Speaker 2: please like and share our videos on YouTube because that

2802
02:17:46,920 --> 02:17:48,320
Speaker 2: really helps us out a lot. There are a lot

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02:17:48,360 --> 02:17:52,199
Speaker 2: of people searching for new media locations at this moment,

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02:17:52,280 --> 02:17:54,440
Speaker 2: and we would love to be one of those destinations.

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Speaker 2: So Emily thank you as always, and Emily will be

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Speaker 2: back in tomorrow for another pre Thanksgiving show, so we

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Speaker 2: will see you guys then