1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:24,716 Speaker 1: Pushkin. This episode contains occasional course language, and we've used 2 00:00:24,716 --> 00:00:28,236 Speaker 1: some voice actors to bring emails to life. 3 00:00:29,156 --> 00:00:32,516 Speaker 2: I've been trying to understand how my brother's ex wife, 4 00:00:32,876 --> 00:00:36,556 Speaker 2: Leslie Minuchian thinks. My journey so far has been like 5 00:00:36,596 --> 00:00:41,956 Speaker 2: tunneling through the matrix. I've been gradually digging deeper into 6 00:00:41,956 --> 00:00:46,596 Speaker 2: the world Leslie lives in. Actually, it's kind of like 7 00:00:46,676 --> 00:00:49,836 Speaker 2: two worlds. It seems like Leslie has a fantasy world 8 00:00:50,076 --> 00:00:54,516 Speaker 2: where she invents characters and a Hollywood movie about her life, 9 00:00:54,636 --> 00:00:57,556 Speaker 2: but she also lives in the real world where people 10 00:00:57,596 --> 00:01:01,156 Speaker 2: like my brother Greg are drawn into her spirals. 11 00:01:01,636 --> 00:01:06,596 Speaker 3: Oh, I was absolutely like a serving dark mate. 12 00:01:06,796 --> 00:01:08,796 Speaker 2: Greg called me the other day, and I guess he's 13 00:01:08,836 --> 00:01:10,236 Speaker 2: been thinking about that too. 14 00:01:10,436 --> 00:01:16,356 Speaker 3: Like who's the most prime target for an American female 15 00:01:16,476 --> 00:01:21,316 Speaker 3: con artist with flat hair? It's great, warts you couldn't 16 00:01:21,316 --> 00:01:24,636 Speaker 3: have lined it up better. Honestly, I would suggest I 17 00:01:24,716 --> 00:01:30,316 Speaker 3: was the most obvious target. I was looking for the 18 00:01:30,356 --> 00:01:34,596 Speaker 3: North American accent. It was done in the day one man. 19 00:01:35,636 --> 00:01:38,316 Speaker 2: So do you think that she actually knew that as well? 20 00:01:38,356 --> 00:01:41,716 Speaker 2: And I guess it just made things easier for her now. 21 00:01:41,836 --> 00:01:44,076 Speaker 3: She didn't know that because she didn't know who I was, 22 00:01:44,436 --> 00:01:51,756 Speaker 3: but it was the collision of multi fraudster versus the 23 00:01:51,836 --> 00:01:55,676 Speaker 3: other side being someone wanting to believe in the American treatment. 24 00:01:58,796 --> 00:02:00,876 Speaker 2: So far, I found out about the trouble Leslie got 25 00:02:00,876 --> 00:02:03,636 Speaker 2: into before she came to New Zealand. But now I 26 00:02:03,676 --> 00:02:06,236 Speaker 2: want to know about what happened after Leslie left Greg 27 00:02:06,516 --> 00:02:10,236 Speaker 2: the Dragonfly and New Zealand behind. And the only way 28 00:02:10,316 --> 00:02:13,876 Speaker 2: to find out more is to get closer to Leslie. Literally. 29 00:02:15,556 --> 00:02:18,876 Speaker 2: I'm on her home turf in California with my other brother, Simon. 30 00:02:19,396 --> 00:02:21,556 Speaker 1: It's hot and sunny, like California should be. 31 00:02:22,196 --> 00:02:25,476 Speaker 2: We're doing our best detective impressions in Hawaiian shirts and 32 00:02:25,516 --> 00:02:29,036 Speaker 2: a muscle car. We're definitely more flood of the Concords 33 00:02:29,076 --> 00:02:34,036 Speaker 2: than true detective. All right, we have a car running 34 00:02:34,596 --> 00:02:39,236 Speaker 2: a gentle rumble in her background. It's a per per, 35 00:02:39,796 --> 00:02:42,956 Speaker 2: but we've got good leads and we're determined to find 36 00:02:42,956 --> 00:02:49,476 Speaker 2: out more. We are today heading to a northern Californian 37 00:02:49,596 --> 00:02:53,956 Speaker 2: town called Passer Robles. I'm following this trail to find 38 00:02:53,996 --> 00:02:59,436 Speaker 2: answers for my family and to find Leslie. Let's at 39 00:02:59,436 --> 00:03:04,716 Speaker 2: the road, sweet, I'm Molly Watts, and this is Snowball. 40 00:03:11,116 --> 00:03:14,036 Speaker 4: We do not even call her by her name anymore, 41 00:03:14,316 --> 00:03:15,036 Speaker 4: so we call her. 42 00:03:14,956 --> 00:03:15,596 Speaker 5: The Black Widow. 43 00:03:15,796 --> 00:03:18,036 Speaker 2: She has a laugh that could you know you hear 44 00:03:18,076 --> 00:03:18,836 Speaker 2: it across the room. 45 00:03:19,996 --> 00:03:23,156 Speaker 3: How did she get over on you? How did this happen? 46 00:03:23,836 --> 00:03:26,556 Speaker 4: She was just kind of reckless with everything. I don't 47 00:03:26,596 --> 00:03:28,316 Speaker 4: think she ever thought she would actually get caught. 48 00:03:28,796 --> 00:03:30,796 Speaker 2: And he basically said, when I got home, there was. 49 00:03:30,756 --> 00:03:33,036 Speaker 6: A bong load, a martini and a blow job, and 50 00:03:33,076 --> 00:03:34,476 Speaker 6: I just didn't think about it. 51 00:03:35,476 --> 00:03:37,436 Speaker 7: I don't think she'll talk to you. I think she'll 52 00:03:37,476 --> 00:03:39,316 Speaker 7: see you and she'll run out the back door. 53 00:03:39,876 --> 00:03:43,996 Speaker 6: I've had sony dreams of like talking to her. I 54 00:03:44,116 --> 00:03:46,516 Speaker 6: just want to ask her, like, oh God, like why 55 00:03:46,516 --> 00:03:47,436 Speaker 6: did you do this? 56 00:03:53,636 --> 00:03:55,836 Speaker 2: Where we're hitting is about three and a half hours 57 00:03:55,876 --> 00:04:00,796 Speaker 2: northwest of la Driving into wine country, there's vineyards and 58 00:04:01,036 --> 00:04:07,356 Speaker 2: boosed up baby boomers everywhere. It was only four years 59 00:04:07,396 --> 00:04:10,436 Speaker 2: after Leslie left my brother Greg and the failing Dragonfly 60 00:04:10,516 --> 00:04:13,356 Speaker 2: and in Zed when she popped up hair and passerobles 61 00:04:15,316 --> 00:04:23,076 Speaker 2: running another restaurant. This one was called Phenomenal. That's phenomenal 62 00:04:23,236 --> 00:04:27,556 Speaker 2: with an F. A review of Leslie's new restaurant appeared 63 00:04:27,596 --> 00:04:29,476 Speaker 2: on trevel Passo dot com. 64 00:04:29,756 --> 00:04:33,236 Speaker 8: The whole phenomenal concept was extremely well thought out and 65 00:04:33,396 --> 00:04:37,556 Speaker 8: executed by owner Leslie Manukian. Her prior experience of owning 66 00:04:37,556 --> 00:04:40,876 Speaker 8: and operating a burger Barron Lake Tahoe, a California cuisine, 67 00:04:40,876 --> 00:04:43,876 Speaker 8: fish and steak restaurant in Maui, and an artsy breakfast 68 00:04:43,916 --> 00:04:46,236 Speaker 8: cafe in New Zealand taught her what is required to 69 00:04:46,276 --> 00:04:48,436 Speaker 8: launch a successful business in the food and wine space. 70 00:04:50,876 --> 00:04:53,396 Speaker 8: That and eating in forty seven countries in seven years. 71 00:04:56,276 --> 00:05:00,116 Speaker 2: That's only a bit cheeky Leslie telling people about her 72 00:05:00,356 --> 00:05:05,396 Speaker 2: successful bars and Tahoe, Hawaii and now an artsy breakfast 73 00:05:05,396 --> 00:05:08,396 Speaker 2: cafe and in zed Lucky. The journalist who wrote that 74 00:05:08,396 --> 00:05:15,516 Speaker 2: didn't check references. So here's another grand opening, another hospitality business, 75 00:05:16,076 --> 00:05:22,956 Speaker 2: and maybe this time things turned out differently. Nah. Before 76 00:05:22,956 --> 00:05:25,276 Speaker 2: we came to passer Robeles, I tracked down the people 77 00:05:25,316 --> 00:05:31,996 Speaker 2: involved with this restaurant and it sounds messy. Here we are, 78 00:05:32,036 --> 00:05:36,636 Speaker 2: Simon driving through passer Roobuls. The streets are really wide, 79 00:05:37,436 --> 00:05:41,116 Speaker 2: The houses look like they're made of lego in that 80 00:05:41,196 --> 00:05:44,756 Speaker 2: they have a tiny little stoop, and that they're all 81 00:05:44,836 --> 00:05:54,996 Speaker 2: perfectly trimmed and painted. Hello, we're all right to park 82 00:05:55,076 --> 00:05:59,276 Speaker 2: this monstrosity of a car. Here are we? This is 83 00:05:59,356 --> 00:06:03,076 Speaker 2: the real owner of that restaurant phenomenal. He's happy to talk, 84 00:06:03,236 --> 00:06:06,516 Speaker 2: but I've changed his name to Cameron in person. He 85 00:06:06,596 --> 00:06:10,076 Speaker 2: doesn't want to have any more personal or professional impact 86 00:06:10,156 --> 00:06:13,636 Speaker 2: from what happened to him. Thank you for having us. 87 00:06:13,796 --> 00:06:17,636 Speaker 2: He's a business guy, engineering background, big build. He's got 88 00:06:17,636 --> 00:06:20,556 Speaker 2: a gray goaty. Cameron invited Simon and I round to 89 00:06:20,636 --> 00:06:22,916 Speaker 2: his really nice house. It's on a hill with a 90 00:06:22,996 --> 00:06:25,396 Speaker 2: view of trees and other big villas in the neighborhood. 91 00:06:25,796 --> 00:06:27,756 Speaker 2: To get up to his front door, we climbed a 92 00:06:27,836 --> 00:06:31,716 Speaker 2: rock staircase through a terraced garden. It's a blue sky day. 93 00:06:31,796 --> 00:06:34,076 Speaker 2: Is it always like this? Yes? Pretty much, so we're 94 00:06:34,076 --> 00:06:36,996 Speaker 2: sitting out on the balcony. Cameron says that when he 95 00:06:37,036 --> 00:06:39,956 Speaker 2: first met Leslie, he had just been through a divorce. 96 00:06:40,436 --> 00:06:42,756 Speaker 2: One night, he was having dinner with his mum and 97 00:06:42,916 --> 00:06:44,356 Speaker 2: Leslie was their waiter. 98 00:06:44,996 --> 00:06:48,196 Speaker 4: She seemed to indicate that she was worldly, adventurous and 99 00:06:48,836 --> 00:06:51,956 Speaker 4: wanted to have the zastralafe and just enjoy life. 100 00:06:53,516 --> 00:06:56,756 Speaker 2: So they start dating. They were only together a few 101 00:06:56,796 --> 00:06:59,076 Speaker 2: months when things jumped to the next level, and. 102 00:06:59,036 --> 00:07:00,716 Speaker 4: Next thing I know, she was just there a lot more, 103 00:07:00,756 --> 00:07:03,036 Speaker 4: and she's like, well, hey, I shouldn't be paying rent 104 00:07:03,036 --> 00:07:05,116 Speaker 4: when I'm here a lot anyway, so I'll just move in. 105 00:07:05,156 --> 00:07:07,236 Speaker 4: And it just kind of happened. It wasn't like a discussion, 106 00:07:07,276 --> 00:07:09,116 Speaker 4: It just kind of kind of unfolded. 107 00:07:09,636 --> 00:07:12,156 Speaker 2: Cameron was okay with that though. He thought it'd be 108 00:07:12,196 --> 00:07:15,316 Speaker 2: fun to have Leslie around, and it sounds like he 109 00:07:15,436 --> 00:07:21,356 Speaker 2: was right. Cameron's friends remember Leslie joining me cr We. 110 00:07:21,396 --> 00:07:24,316 Speaker 9: Instantly became friends. I mean, she was easy to talk to, 111 00:07:25,196 --> 00:07:30,196 Speaker 9: she was interesting and interested in everyone. I mean it 112 00:07:30,276 --> 00:07:34,236 Speaker 9: was just so so easy to get along, and she 113 00:07:34,316 --> 00:07:36,636 Speaker 9: always had fun things. You know, she always came up 114 00:07:36,676 --> 00:07:39,236 Speaker 9: with fun things to do, and you definitely had the 115 00:07:39,276 --> 00:07:42,196 Speaker 9: sense that she like came from money. 116 00:07:42,236 --> 00:07:46,236 Speaker 2: But another of Cameron's friends I spoke to Rickens, Leslie 117 00:07:46,276 --> 00:07:48,156 Speaker 2: wasn't his usual type. 118 00:07:48,316 --> 00:07:51,076 Speaker 6: She seems very nice. I did think that she was 119 00:07:51,116 --> 00:07:52,836 Speaker 6: an odd match. 120 00:07:53,076 --> 00:07:56,276 Speaker 1: Didn't seem his uh, you know, his typical cup of kea. 121 00:07:56,156 --> 00:07:59,356 Speaker 6: For a relationship way, but very outgoing. 122 00:08:00,716 --> 00:08:02,556 Speaker 9: I just different differences. 123 00:08:02,836 --> 00:08:06,196 Speaker 6: Even in her appearance. She's loud, she has you know, 124 00:08:06,436 --> 00:08:08,996 Speaker 6: large hair, long nails, paint. 125 00:08:09,516 --> 00:08:11,036 Speaker 3: So I think that it was a kind of an 126 00:08:11,036 --> 00:08:13,396 Speaker 3: out of character relationship for him. 127 00:08:13,876 --> 00:08:16,036 Speaker 2: Cameron's mate asked him what he saw in Lesley? 128 00:08:16,676 --> 00:08:20,196 Speaker 5: How did she get over on you? How did this happen? 129 00:08:21,356 --> 00:08:23,356 Speaker 6: And he basically said, when I got home, there was 130 00:08:23,396 --> 00:08:25,756 Speaker 6: a bong load, a martini and a blowjob, and I 131 00:08:25,836 --> 00:08:27,876 Speaker 6: just didn't think about it. I just said yes and 132 00:08:27,916 --> 00:08:28,796 Speaker 6: I signed. 133 00:08:29,996 --> 00:08:30,916 Speaker 5: We'll be right back. 134 00:08:38,356 --> 00:08:43,036 Speaker 2: Lisley was also adventurous with all her worldly experience. She 135 00:08:43,156 --> 00:08:46,876 Speaker 2: encouraged Cameron's desire to travel and they started planning a 136 00:08:46,916 --> 00:08:47,796 Speaker 2: trip down Undone. 137 00:08:49,196 --> 00:08:51,396 Speaker 4: I've never been to Australia, so I thought that would 138 00:08:51,436 --> 00:08:53,996 Speaker 4: be great, Let's go to Australia. I was in the 139 00:08:53,996 --> 00:08:57,196 Speaker 4: process of actually getting scuba dive certified, and so the 140 00:08:57,276 --> 00:08:59,076 Speaker 4: goal was to go down there, do some wine tasting 141 00:08:59,076 --> 00:09:02,436 Speaker 4: in Brosa, go see Melbourne, make sure I see all 142 00:09:02,476 --> 00:09:04,316 Speaker 4: the sites, and just make a trip out of it. 143 00:09:04,516 --> 00:09:07,196 Speaker 5: So flights were booked, hotels are booked. 144 00:09:08,236 --> 00:09:11,876 Speaker 2: But Lisley's checkered past was about to interfere with their 145 00:09:11,916 --> 00:09:16,756 Speaker 2: plans because back in New Zealand, my dad was still 146 00:09:16,756 --> 00:09:19,436 Speaker 2: trying to figure out what had happened and where Leslie 147 00:09:19,476 --> 00:09:23,556 Speaker 2: had gone. Dad was reading about book deals, movie stars 148 00:09:23,636 --> 00:09:27,476 Speaker 2: and boats, and Leslie's emails like you heard last episode. 149 00:09:28,116 --> 00:09:30,236 Speaker 2: He thought it all might be real, and he was 150 00:09:30,276 --> 00:09:33,076 Speaker 2: wondering how Leslie could get away from New Zealand and 151 00:09:33,156 --> 00:09:36,436 Speaker 2: her guarantee of the Dragonfly Bank loan without paying a cent. 152 00:09:37,476 --> 00:09:40,676 Speaker 2: So Dad arranged for a private investigator to find Leslie 153 00:09:41,556 --> 00:09:43,796 Speaker 2: to see if all the glitz and glamour was legit 154 00:09:44,276 --> 00:09:46,276 Speaker 2: and to see if she would forfeit her boat to 155 00:09:46,356 --> 00:09:50,476 Speaker 2: help pay off the loan. And this American PI he 156 00:09:50,516 --> 00:09:54,956 Speaker 2: found her at Cameron's house. We know what happened next 157 00:09:55,196 --> 00:09:58,756 Speaker 2: from Leslie's perspective because she emailed a friend about it. 158 00:09:59,276 --> 00:10:03,316 Speaker 10: A private investigator showed up at my door. Dave Wartz 159 00:10:03,396 --> 00:10:07,196 Speaker 10: hired him to find me. I kindly invited him in 160 00:10:07,436 --> 00:10:10,796 Speaker 10: and we had a long talk about all the accusations 161 00:10:10,836 --> 00:10:12,036 Speaker 10: that they have made against me. 162 00:10:12,716 --> 00:10:15,956 Speaker 2: The PI found Leslie so convincing that from the report 163 00:10:16,036 --> 00:10:19,196 Speaker 2: he sent back and her emails, it seems like she 164 00:10:19,276 --> 00:10:23,476 Speaker 2: managed to flip him to her side. Leslie even refers 165 00:10:23,516 --> 00:10:26,156 Speaker 2: to him as my PI at the end of her 166 00:10:26,196 --> 00:10:29,916 Speaker 2: email to her mate. Even though the PI was working 167 00:10:29,916 --> 00:10:34,076 Speaker 2: for my Dad, he ended up giving her information, including 168 00:10:34,116 --> 00:10:35,596 Speaker 2: one crucial piece of intel. 169 00:10:36,716 --> 00:10:39,556 Speaker 10: The PI told me, I have a warrant for my arrest. 170 00:10:39,676 --> 00:10:43,756 Speaker 2: In n said it wasn't a warrant for arrest, but 171 00:10:43,836 --> 00:10:46,396 Speaker 2: the cops told me that they would be alerted if 172 00:10:46,476 --> 00:10:51,276 Speaker 2: Leslie set foot in New Zealand. And those flights that 173 00:10:51,356 --> 00:10:54,156 Speaker 2: Leslie and Cameron had to Australia only a week later, 174 00:10:54,716 --> 00:10:58,116 Speaker 2: they were connecting through New Zealand. If they went on 175 00:10:58,156 --> 00:11:00,556 Speaker 2: their holiday, Leslie might have had to have a little 176 00:11:00,676 --> 00:11:07,156 Speaker 2: chat with the Kiwi cops. So she panicked. Leslie had 177 00:11:07,196 --> 00:11:08,916 Speaker 2: to come up with an excuse as to why they 178 00:11:08,956 --> 00:11:10,396 Speaker 2: couldn't get on that plane. 179 00:11:10,756 --> 00:11:14,516 Speaker 4: Next thing I know, she says, there was She came 180 00:11:14,596 --> 00:11:16,436 Speaker 4: up with a couple different stories and so but the 181 00:11:16,476 --> 00:11:19,916 Speaker 4: final story that we landed on was that there were 182 00:11:19,996 --> 00:11:23,156 Speaker 4: so many major storms happening in Australia at the time. 183 00:11:23,196 --> 00:11:26,596 Speaker 5: There's that the Great Barrier Reef was going to be cloudy. 184 00:11:26,636 --> 00:11:28,316 Speaker 4: We weren't going to be able to scuba dive there 185 00:11:28,316 --> 00:11:30,636 Speaker 4: because you wouldn't see anything. So the whole purpose of 186 00:11:30,716 --> 00:11:32,156 Speaker 4: you know, one of the purposes to go there is 187 00:11:32,196 --> 00:11:35,356 Speaker 4: to enjoy the scuba diving and snorkeling and stuff. So 188 00:11:35,556 --> 00:11:36,916 Speaker 4: it was based on weather. 189 00:11:36,996 --> 00:11:37,476 Speaker 5: At the time. 190 00:11:38,036 --> 00:11:40,116 Speaker 2: They were meant to be meeting some friends in Australia 191 00:11:40,316 --> 00:11:43,396 Speaker 2: and they caught a different excuse from Leslie in an email. 192 00:11:44,236 --> 00:11:49,756 Speaker 10: I have the worst news ever. Cameron and I are 193 00:11:49,836 --> 00:11:53,156 Speaker 10: not going to make it to Australia. As you know, 194 00:11:53,476 --> 00:11:57,876 Speaker 10: Cameron uses air miles for travel to Australia. Well, we 195 00:11:57,876 --> 00:12:01,756 Speaker 10: were printing down all of our arrangements and Cameron noticed 196 00:12:01,796 --> 00:12:05,076 Speaker 10: that our names were spelled wrong on our ticketing information. 197 00:12:06,396 --> 00:12:09,476 Speaker 10: I'm so upset. I do not even know where to begin. 198 00:12:10,236 --> 00:12:12,756 Speaker 10: I have been on the phone all night canceling and 199 00:12:12,876 --> 00:12:13,876 Speaker 10: changing bookings. 200 00:12:14,836 --> 00:12:17,836 Speaker 2: So their tickets were void because Cameron got their names 201 00:12:17,876 --> 00:12:21,476 Speaker 2: wrong on the booking. It's a testament to how doggedly 202 00:12:21,556 --> 00:12:25,636 Speaker 2: Leslie can tell us story that everyone just let it slide. 203 00:12:27,116 --> 00:12:30,156 Speaker 2: Leslie was spinning an even more important story for Cameron. 204 00:12:30,676 --> 00:12:33,956 Speaker 2: It was Leslie's greatest hit story of being a successful 205 00:12:33,996 --> 00:12:38,676 Speaker 2: restaurant heur, and predictably, it wasn't long before Leslie started 206 00:12:38,716 --> 00:12:41,796 Speaker 2: suggesting that Cameron should invest a ton of money in 207 00:12:41,836 --> 00:12:45,556 Speaker 2: a new restaurant, and like a lot of people before him, 208 00:12:45,716 --> 00:12:46,516 Speaker 2: Cameron was keen. 209 00:12:47,396 --> 00:12:49,116 Speaker 4: So I thought, between the tourists, you know, if she's 210 00:12:49,116 --> 00:12:50,836 Speaker 4: already done it four or five times, this would be 211 00:12:50,876 --> 00:12:53,316 Speaker 4: an easy situation. I can invest in this, I can 212 00:12:53,396 --> 00:12:56,116 Speaker 4: do this and make a nice successful business in the 213 00:12:56,276 --> 00:12:57,196 Speaker 4: local area here. 214 00:12:57,436 --> 00:13:05,316 Speaker 2: Eventually Cameron agreed and they launched Phenomenal. The restaurant started strongly. 215 00:13:05,716 --> 00:13:08,596 Speaker 2: The headline of that review you heard before was the 216 00:13:08,636 --> 00:13:12,356 Speaker 2: phenomenal story of a great new Pessa Robels Restaurant Love, 217 00:13:12,396 --> 00:13:16,556 Speaker 2: a pun title, Cameron says. Lesley wasn't actually employed at 218 00:13:16,556 --> 00:13:19,956 Speaker 2: the restaurant, but as his girlfriend. She was helping out 219 00:13:19,956 --> 00:13:20,836 Speaker 2: with a bunch of stuff. 220 00:13:21,636 --> 00:13:24,316 Speaker 4: She went and basically told everybody that was her restaurant, 221 00:13:24,436 --> 00:13:26,756 Speaker 4: and most people found out much later that she didn't 222 00:13:26,756 --> 00:13:28,636 Speaker 4: even put a penny in there, not a dime, not 223 00:13:29,156 --> 00:13:32,196 Speaker 4: a dollar. She did spend time in there, but you know, 224 00:13:32,276 --> 00:13:34,916 Speaker 4: she was just kind of reckless with everything, including when 225 00:13:34,956 --> 00:13:37,676 Speaker 4: we were purchasing equipment. You know, we were buying equipment, 226 00:13:37,756 --> 00:13:39,996 Speaker 4: and all of a sudden, next day, know, she was 227 00:13:40,036 --> 00:13:42,516 Speaker 4: returning something and then going and getting some other piece 228 00:13:42,516 --> 00:13:44,276 Speaker 4: of equipment, the same piece of equipment with a lease, 229 00:13:44,516 --> 00:13:47,036 Speaker 4: and so the money flow would just be crazy in 230 00:13:47,036 --> 00:13:48,956 Speaker 4: the fact that wait, I just bought a new ten 231 00:13:48,996 --> 00:13:50,996 Speaker 4: burner stove and now all of a sudden, I'm leasing one. 232 00:13:51,036 --> 00:13:53,236 Speaker 4: Where'd that money go? And so it was it was 233 00:13:53,276 --> 00:13:55,836 Speaker 4: things like that where it just didn't make sense. 234 00:13:56,676 --> 00:13:59,876 Speaker 2: As Cameron talks about how Leslie was involved at his restaurant, 235 00:14:00,276 --> 00:14:03,836 Speaker 2: I've got deja vo, Cameron says, strange stuff was going 236 00:14:03,876 --> 00:14:07,116 Speaker 2: on with the accounting. Phenomenal was a tap us joint, 237 00:14:07,476 --> 00:14:09,596 Speaker 2: but it sounds like it was the book that were 238 00:14:09,596 --> 00:14:13,756 Speaker 2: getting cooked, or at least a bit scrambled. 239 00:14:15,036 --> 00:14:17,516 Speaker 4: One time, Pugenie called me and said, by the way, 240 00:14:17,556 --> 00:14:19,116 Speaker 4: we're shutting your electric off, and I'm like, what are 241 00:14:19,116 --> 00:14:20,916 Speaker 4: you talking about. I repaid him and they're like, no, 242 00:14:20,956 --> 00:14:23,236 Speaker 4: you're like six grand in the hall and I'm like, no, 243 00:14:23,316 --> 00:14:24,916 Speaker 4: I have these receipts. I sent him the receives and 244 00:14:24,956 --> 00:14:27,236 Speaker 4: they said these are fraudulent. She took the logo from 245 00:14:27,276 --> 00:14:29,916 Speaker 4: their website, put it onto a blank piece of paper, 246 00:14:30,236 --> 00:14:32,476 Speaker 4: wrote it out, this is your receipt for this dollar 247 00:14:32,516 --> 00:14:35,876 Speaker 4: amount for this account and had that in the books 248 00:14:35,876 --> 00:14:38,876 Speaker 4: as if she had paid it. 249 00:14:38,876 --> 00:14:41,356 Speaker 2: It wasn't just the electricity bill that wasn't getting paid. 250 00:14:41,876 --> 00:14:44,676 Speaker 2: Quite early on, someone stuck a flyer on the windows 251 00:14:44,716 --> 00:14:48,036 Speaker 2: of the restaurant saying, shame on you, Phenomenal restaurant. You 252 00:14:48,076 --> 00:14:51,516 Speaker 2: are doing business at the expense of local subcontractors. Pay 253 00:14:51,556 --> 00:14:55,356 Speaker 2: your bills. When I asked Cameron if I can see 254 00:14:55,356 --> 00:14:59,476 Speaker 2: some of this stuff, he takes me inside. Cameron goes 255 00:14:59,476 --> 00:15:02,596 Speaker 2: to the filing cabinet and comes back arms full. He 256 00:15:02,636 --> 00:15:05,156 Speaker 2: dumps his papers on the polished wood dining room table. 257 00:15:06,196 --> 00:15:10,276 Speaker 2: You've got a couple of red folder's hair. One of 258 00:15:10,276 --> 00:15:12,836 Speaker 2: them's caught black widow written on it. 259 00:15:14,716 --> 00:15:18,756 Speaker 4: So most of my friends we do not even call 260 00:15:18,796 --> 00:15:22,476 Speaker 4: her by her name anymore. She's not worthy of being named, 261 00:15:22,716 --> 00:15:24,036 Speaker 4: so we call her the black widow. 262 00:15:24,196 --> 00:15:28,276 Speaker 2: Of course, the black Widow is famously eight sis romantic 263 00:15:28,436 --> 00:15:39,716 Speaker 2: partner off to a little while. Right exactly, Cameron spreads 264 00:15:39,716 --> 00:15:41,476 Speaker 2: out a bunch of papers on the table in front 265 00:15:41,476 --> 00:15:43,556 Speaker 2: of us and starts to take me through what happened. 266 00:15:43,836 --> 00:15:45,316 Speaker 4: So what I have in front of me here are 267 00:15:45,356 --> 00:15:47,876 Speaker 4: a bunch of bank documents. And you know, the thing 268 00:15:47,956 --> 00:15:50,036 Speaker 4: is that, you know, when you're running a business, you 269 00:15:50,036 --> 00:15:52,556 Speaker 4: don't typically run it through a lot of cash based things. 270 00:15:52,596 --> 00:15:54,436 Speaker 4: You want to make sure there's a paper trail. But 271 00:15:54,516 --> 00:15:58,276 Speaker 4: for whatever reason, she chose to go and withdraw cash. 272 00:15:58,396 --> 00:16:01,356 Speaker 4: So I can't prove that she's taking this cash and 273 00:16:01,396 --> 00:16:03,596 Speaker 4: put it in her pocket or her bank accounts. But 274 00:16:03,716 --> 00:16:05,956 Speaker 4: all I can do is say, well, here, okay, this 275 00:16:06,036 --> 00:16:08,996 Speaker 4: month alone, there was six thousand dollars withdrawal by cash, 276 00:16:09,196 --> 00:16:12,796 Speaker 4: five thousand dollars, five thousand dollars. There's another five thousand. 277 00:16:12,996 --> 00:16:17,236 Speaker 4: There's another three thousand that's in thirty days withdrawal of cash. 278 00:16:17,676 --> 00:16:20,676 Speaker 2: Cameron could keep going next month and he does another. 279 00:16:20,596 --> 00:16:23,596 Speaker 4: Five thousand dollars, two thousand dollars, three thousand. 280 00:16:23,676 --> 00:16:26,636 Speaker 2: While all this was happening, Leslie wasn't being paid like 281 00:16:26,716 --> 00:16:30,236 Speaker 2: she was on the phenomenal staff. Cameron says the deal 282 00:16:30,436 --> 00:16:33,316 Speaker 2: was until the business started making money. He was covering 283 00:16:33,356 --> 00:16:38,876 Speaker 2: everything like food, rent and overseas holidays. But maybe Leslie 284 00:16:38,876 --> 00:16:41,436 Speaker 2: thought she was entitled to some money in the meantime. 285 00:16:42,036 --> 00:16:44,676 Speaker 2: It's just the next thing he shows me looks like 286 00:16:44,836 --> 00:16:47,876 Speaker 2: a murky way for Leslie to sort herself out with cash. 287 00:16:48,196 --> 00:16:51,316 Speaker 2: He pulls out some scans of checks. He reckons Leslie 288 00:16:51,316 --> 00:16:52,556 Speaker 2: forged his signature on. 289 00:16:53,036 --> 00:16:53,676 Speaker 5: Oh look at that. 290 00:16:53,716 --> 00:16:56,636 Speaker 4: It happens to be to her father, Andrew Manukian for 291 00:16:56,716 --> 00:17:00,036 Speaker 4: six hundred and fifty dollars minimum credit card payment. Is 292 00:17:00,076 --> 00:17:02,076 Speaker 4: what it's showing here, not my signature. 293 00:17:02,796 --> 00:17:05,916 Speaker 2: Then there's a real big boy. Cameron says he made 294 00:17:05,916 --> 00:17:08,676 Speaker 2: the mistake of leaving a blank check around for emergencies. 295 00:17:09,396 --> 00:17:11,756 Speaker 4: You know, this is something that is the most disturbing. 296 00:17:13,556 --> 00:17:19,236 Speaker 4: Thirty thousand dollars thirty eight hundred and fifty dollars made 297 00:17:19,276 --> 00:17:22,556 Speaker 4: out to cash. I have no idea where the money went. 298 00:17:22,676 --> 00:17:25,036 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm an idiot for allowing that to happen. 299 00:17:25,796 --> 00:17:29,636 Speaker 2: I mean that's actually probably physically quite a lot of piper. 300 00:17:30,156 --> 00:17:32,476 Speaker 2: Like I would imagine going up to the bank teller 301 00:17:32,516 --> 00:17:35,076 Speaker 2: and handing that chick across, and I would sort of 302 00:17:35,156 --> 00:17:38,036 Speaker 2: have to go into the vault and you know, get 303 00:17:38,076 --> 00:17:40,796 Speaker 2: a bag and manage your approval and all that kind 304 00:17:40,836 --> 00:17:41,236 Speaker 2: of stuff. 305 00:17:41,596 --> 00:17:44,116 Speaker 5: So it goes on and on and on. 306 00:17:45,076 --> 00:17:47,076 Speaker 2: I mean, did you think about going to the police 307 00:17:47,116 --> 00:17:47,756 Speaker 2: when you found this? 308 00:17:48,756 --> 00:17:50,876 Speaker 5: Yes, it's too painful to go through. 309 00:17:50,876 --> 00:17:54,356 Speaker 4: That part of it was the survivability piece, is that, 310 00:17:54,676 --> 00:17:56,356 Speaker 4: you know, I still had to move on in my life. 311 00:17:56,516 --> 00:17:58,676 Speaker 4: I didn't lose my house, but I was close. I 312 00:17:58,756 --> 00:18:00,636 Speaker 4: did lose my car. I had to let that go, 313 00:18:01,036 --> 00:18:03,356 Speaker 4: you know, And so there's been so many things along 314 00:18:03,356 --> 00:18:05,076 Speaker 4: that way that I'm like, you know what, I just 315 00:18:05,116 --> 00:18:07,676 Speaker 4: need to figure out a way to survive. And not 316 00:18:07,716 --> 00:18:10,036 Speaker 4: only that, it's a small town, so you know, it 317 00:18:10,556 --> 00:18:13,476 Speaker 4: was better for me to just suck it up, understand 318 00:18:13,476 --> 00:18:15,596 Speaker 4: that I made a mistake with who I partnered with, 319 00:18:16,236 --> 00:18:19,076 Speaker 4: and chuck it up as a life experience and move on. 320 00:18:20,676 --> 00:18:25,636 Speaker 2: So it all happens again, allegations of fake documents, forge checks, 321 00:18:26,076 --> 00:18:29,636 Speaker 2: mysterious lumps of cash going missing. Then Leslie gets to 322 00:18:29,796 --> 00:18:33,876 Speaker 2: walk away. Only this time it was Cameron's conscious choice 323 00:18:33,916 --> 00:18:36,756 Speaker 2: not to pursue her, even if he wanted to change 324 00:18:36,756 --> 00:18:40,196 Speaker 2: his mind. Now it's probably too late. There's a statute 325 00:18:40,236 --> 00:18:48,436 Speaker 2: of limitations on fraud in California of three years. We 326 00:18:48,476 --> 00:18:51,116 Speaker 2: sit around the dining room table talking for ages and 327 00:18:51,196 --> 00:18:54,476 Speaker 2: Simon starts to wonder, if Cameron didn't talk to the cops, 328 00:18:54,636 --> 00:18:55,556 Speaker 2: then why us. 329 00:18:55,996 --> 00:18:58,356 Speaker 1: Obviously you decided not to kind of approach anyone else 330 00:18:58,356 --> 00:19:01,316 Speaker 1: about it. What made you talk to Olian leads us 331 00:19:01,316 --> 00:19:02,196 Speaker 1: to be sitting here together? 332 00:19:02,996 --> 00:19:06,236 Speaker 4: So I guess, first and foremost, I think the fact 333 00:19:06,236 --> 00:19:10,036 Speaker 4: that I had it bad, but your brother Greg had 334 00:19:10,076 --> 00:19:11,276 Speaker 4: it way worse. 335 00:19:11,076 --> 00:19:11,756 Speaker 5: In your parents. 336 00:19:12,156 --> 00:19:14,156 Speaker 4: So for me at that point in time, it was 337 00:19:14,236 --> 00:19:15,636 Speaker 4: kind of like, well, you know, what if there's a 338 00:19:15,636 --> 00:19:18,276 Speaker 4: way that I can somehow help and whether it's helped 339 00:19:18,316 --> 00:19:21,796 Speaker 4: this be successful or help her to be stopped or 340 00:19:21,836 --> 00:19:23,996 Speaker 4: to somehow help someone else have closure. 341 00:19:24,956 --> 00:19:26,156 Speaker 5: That was pretty important to me. 342 00:19:26,836 --> 00:19:29,796 Speaker 2: But it turns out it wasn't that easy inviting us 343 00:19:29,796 --> 00:19:32,916 Speaker 2: to come over. Cameron's partner has been sitting with us 344 00:19:32,956 --> 00:19:36,156 Speaker 2: this whole time, nodding a head to what she already knows, 345 00:19:36,516 --> 00:19:39,276 Speaker 2: and at times looking pretty shocked as she finds out more. 346 00:19:39,796 --> 00:19:43,756 Speaker 11: When Cameron told me about it, initially, I could just 347 00:19:43,796 --> 00:19:46,156 Speaker 11: see this black cloud above his head and he was 348 00:19:46,276 --> 00:19:49,116 Speaker 11: just for a few days there, he didn't know if 349 00:19:49,116 --> 00:19:51,716 Speaker 11: he wanted to do it or not. And I was 350 00:19:51,756 --> 00:19:56,396 Speaker 11: excited about the possibility of this happening because I knew 351 00:19:57,196 --> 00:20:01,796 Speaker 11: just from the outside looking at Cameron, that he needed 352 00:20:01,836 --> 00:20:04,556 Speaker 11: to process it because I, in my opinion, he kind 353 00:20:04,596 --> 00:20:07,596 Speaker 11: of put a lot of things, just checked it under 354 00:20:07,636 --> 00:20:10,676 Speaker 11: the rug and just wanted to pretend it didn't ever happen. 355 00:20:10,996 --> 00:20:12,396 Speaker 11: And I knew that. 356 00:20:12,556 --> 00:20:14,636 Speaker 4: I just kept putting it in a file cabinet. It's like, 357 00:20:14,636 --> 00:20:16,636 Speaker 4: you know what, let's just let's just look at this 358 00:20:16,716 --> 00:20:18,916 Speaker 4: ten years from now. Let's laugh about this in ten years. 359 00:20:19,036 --> 00:20:19,196 Speaker 2: Yeah. 360 00:20:19,236 --> 00:20:22,196 Speaker 11: I mean, he did have an inkling that maybe someday, 361 00:20:22,436 --> 00:20:25,076 Speaker 11: you know, he would be happy that he didn't throw 362 00:20:25,076 --> 00:20:27,676 Speaker 11: away some of these papers, but I knew he needed 363 00:20:27,676 --> 00:20:31,556 Speaker 11: to process all that that had happened to him. And 364 00:20:32,436 --> 00:20:36,036 Speaker 11: once that happens with any trauma, once you are able 365 00:20:36,076 --> 00:20:39,876 Speaker 11: to actually finally process it all, you can really then 366 00:20:40,116 --> 00:20:41,116 Speaker 11: go on with your life. 367 00:20:41,876 --> 00:20:44,476 Speaker 2: That's when Simon and I start to realize this stuff 368 00:20:44,556 --> 00:20:47,076 Speaker 2: is still present for them. They've got this nice house 369 00:20:47,076 --> 00:20:49,876 Speaker 2: on a hill and they're doing well, but the betrayal 370 00:20:49,916 --> 00:20:52,396 Speaker 2: of your trust, that kind of thing takes longer to 371 00:20:52,436 --> 00:20:52,916 Speaker 2: get past. 372 00:20:53,236 --> 00:20:55,196 Speaker 1: Did this kind of change the way you'd look at 373 00:20:55,516 --> 00:20:58,596 Speaker 1: kind of going into business or even going into relationships 374 00:20:58,676 --> 00:20:59,036 Speaker 1: after that? 375 00:20:59,156 --> 00:20:59,236 Speaker 5: Like? 376 00:20:59,316 --> 00:21:01,476 Speaker 1: Do you did it negatively affect you like that? 377 00:21:01,676 --> 00:21:01,756 Speaker 2: Or? 378 00:21:02,836 --> 00:21:03,516 Speaker 5: Unfortunately? 379 00:21:03,996 --> 00:21:06,996 Speaker 4: The bad part of that is, you know, it's it's 380 00:21:07,036 --> 00:21:11,236 Speaker 4: like trust your employees, trust your people, but verify. And 381 00:21:12,316 --> 00:21:14,836 Speaker 4: I definitely don't have as much trust for the people 382 00:21:14,916 --> 00:21:17,836 Speaker 4: in my lives, and so therefore I definitely have to 383 00:21:17,916 --> 00:21:20,036 Speaker 4: verify them a lot more. I mean, I think I 384 00:21:20,076 --> 00:21:22,436 Speaker 4: appreciate the things that you have around you a lot 385 00:21:22,476 --> 00:21:26,436 Speaker 4: more than I did before, because you know, I was fat, dumb, 386 00:21:26,476 --> 00:21:28,436 Speaker 4: and happier or whatever, and just you know, I was 387 00:21:28,476 --> 00:21:30,636 Speaker 4: I was doing well, and I was I was making 388 00:21:30,676 --> 00:21:33,316 Speaker 4: my bills, and you know, after that it's kind. 389 00:21:33,156 --> 00:21:34,676 Speaker 5: Of like, well, wait, what makes you happy? 390 00:21:35,036 --> 00:21:38,076 Speaker 4: And I truly was not happy during that period of 391 00:21:38,076 --> 00:21:40,476 Speaker 4: my life because there was the probably the highest stress 392 00:21:40,556 --> 00:21:42,236 Speaker 4: level I've ever had in my life. 393 00:21:42,676 --> 00:21:45,956 Speaker 2: So this whole experience did have a lasting effect. These 394 00:21:46,036 --> 00:21:48,236 Speaker 2: that phrase it's bitter to have loved and lost than 395 00:21:48,276 --> 00:21:52,676 Speaker 2: they've loved at all. With this relationship, Cameron definitely lost. 396 00:21:53,036 --> 00:21:56,476 Speaker 2: But was the love you were with Leslie for a 397 00:21:56,476 --> 00:21:59,716 Speaker 2: couple of years. Did your relationship get to that point 398 00:21:59,716 --> 00:22:01,276 Speaker 2: where you think she loved you? 399 00:22:01,916 --> 00:22:02,836 Speaker 5: No, not at all. 400 00:22:02,956 --> 00:22:03,196 Speaker 12: I don't. 401 00:22:03,236 --> 00:22:04,716 Speaker 4: I don't think she was ever in love with me. 402 00:22:04,756 --> 00:22:07,956 Speaker 4: I think that she was in love with the opportunities 403 00:22:08,036 --> 00:22:08,836 Speaker 4: and the lifestyle. 404 00:22:09,916 --> 00:22:09,956 Speaker 7: No. 405 00:22:10,076 --> 00:22:13,236 Speaker 4: I never really felt any love from her. You know, 406 00:22:13,436 --> 00:22:16,516 Speaker 4: there was at times some respect that was about the 407 00:22:16,556 --> 00:22:20,156 Speaker 4: only thing, like hey, you're successful in your career. But 408 00:22:20,196 --> 00:22:22,676 Speaker 4: for the most part, no, it was more like, you know, 409 00:22:23,156 --> 00:22:25,276 Speaker 4: two people just going out and having fun. At times 410 00:22:25,276 --> 00:22:27,276 Speaker 4: when we go places, it was more about like let's 411 00:22:27,276 --> 00:22:29,516 Speaker 4: go have fun. It wasn't about any kind of a 412 00:22:29,596 --> 00:22:30,876 Speaker 4: romantic situation. 413 00:22:32,876 --> 00:22:35,276 Speaker 2: There's one other perspective I wanted to get from this 414 00:22:35,396 --> 00:22:38,716 Speaker 2: time in Cameron's life. Cameron's daughter was living with them, 415 00:22:38,716 --> 00:22:41,676 Speaker 2: when Lesley moved in, she was around ten at the time. 416 00:22:42,036 --> 00:22:44,836 Speaker 2: Now she's eighteen and off at college. I wanted to 417 00:22:44,876 --> 00:22:47,796 Speaker 2: hear how all this went for her. Cameron suggested I 418 00:22:47,796 --> 00:22:49,676 Speaker 2: give her a call. 419 00:22:49,716 --> 00:22:51,996 Speaker 6: Like when I met her, I you know, thought she 420 00:22:52,116 --> 00:22:55,396 Speaker 6: was fun. She's really like kind of tough and like 421 00:22:55,556 --> 00:22:58,356 Speaker 6: unlike other women that I had met or are, they're 422 00:22:58,396 --> 00:23:02,676 Speaker 6: like female like I don't know figures in my life. 423 00:23:02,996 --> 00:23:04,876 Speaker 6: So I thought she was like kind of cool at first. 424 00:23:04,916 --> 00:23:07,996 Speaker 6: She would always like wrestle with me and like rough 425 00:23:08,036 --> 00:23:10,756 Speaker 6: house and like you know, talk about like being tough 426 00:23:10,836 --> 00:23:11,716 Speaker 6: and all this stuff. 427 00:23:11,996 --> 00:23:14,156 Speaker 2: Kimeron's daughter sees that Lesley was sort of a play 428 00:23:14,236 --> 00:23:15,636 Speaker 2: night rather than a parent figure. 429 00:23:15,956 --> 00:23:18,476 Speaker 6: Like I remember one time, like when we were playing basketball, 430 00:23:18,476 --> 00:23:20,876 Speaker 6: like I threw the basketball at her and it hit 431 00:23:20,916 --> 00:23:23,916 Speaker 6: her in the boobs, and she just like got so 432 00:23:24,036 --> 00:23:25,796 Speaker 6: mad at me, Like she started yelling, you did that 433 00:23:25,836 --> 00:23:28,316 Speaker 6: on purpose, you fucking manipulate a bitch, Like what the 434 00:23:28,356 --> 00:23:30,596 Speaker 6: fuck are you doing? And like she just would just 435 00:23:30,636 --> 00:23:34,316 Speaker 6: go off suddenly, and I just like would be totally 436 00:23:34,356 --> 00:23:35,276 Speaker 6: freaked out and like. 437 00:23:35,316 --> 00:23:36,476 Speaker 8: Not know what I did. 438 00:23:37,276 --> 00:23:39,716 Speaker 6: Uh, And and my dad would always like say, like, oh, 439 00:23:39,756 --> 00:23:42,076 Speaker 6: she's just she's never been around kids. She just doesn't 440 00:23:42,116 --> 00:23:45,076 Speaker 6: really like know that you're not supposed to do that. 441 00:23:45,476 --> 00:23:48,436 Speaker 2: As time went on, it sounds like their interactions became 442 00:23:48,556 --> 00:23:49,316 Speaker 2: more hurtful. 443 00:23:49,836 --> 00:23:53,716 Speaker 6: She's like, oh my god, honey, you must get made 444 00:23:53,716 --> 00:23:58,596 Speaker 6: fun of so much in school for your mustache and 445 00:23:58,676 --> 00:24:01,076 Speaker 6: for your and for your your your body hair, like 446 00:24:01,116 --> 00:24:03,996 Speaker 6: I remember I did, like and she was like being 447 00:24:04,196 --> 00:24:06,516 Speaker 6: like relates, like trying to be relatable like I remember 448 00:24:06,556 --> 00:24:08,636 Speaker 6: I did, and like, you know, I didn't have like 449 00:24:08,676 --> 00:24:10,676 Speaker 6: a mother who would like help me with that kind 450 00:24:10,676 --> 00:24:13,476 Speaker 6: of stuff like your mother, you know, like your mother 451 00:24:13,556 --> 00:24:16,396 Speaker 6: or your mother obviously like isn't talking to you about this. 452 00:24:16,516 --> 00:24:18,156 Speaker 6: But I can like help you and teach you how 453 00:24:18,156 --> 00:24:20,036 Speaker 6: to shave your legs, and I can give you this 454 00:24:20,156 --> 00:24:21,636 Speaker 6: cream that you can just put on your lip and 455 00:24:21,676 --> 00:24:25,036 Speaker 6: it'll get rid of the hair. And at the time, 456 00:24:25,196 --> 00:24:29,036 Speaker 6: like I was like ten, so I didn't even have 457 00:24:29,156 --> 00:24:33,236 Speaker 6: any like not like I didn't even notice it. I 458 00:24:33,236 --> 00:24:36,156 Speaker 6: had never been made fun of it, and I like 459 00:24:36,636 --> 00:24:39,796 Speaker 6: was just like I don't know, kind of like suddenly 460 00:24:39,836 --> 00:24:41,796 Speaker 6: like self conscious about this thing. 461 00:24:43,396 --> 00:24:45,716 Speaker 2: Cameron's daughter has thought a lot about it since. 462 00:24:47,076 --> 00:24:49,756 Speaker 6: Okay, this is really hard to say, I've actually like 463 00:24:49,836 --> 00:24:54,396 Speaker 6: in the aftermath of her like leaving and whatever. Like 464 00:24:54,436 --> 00:24:57,796 Speaker 6: I've had so many dreams of like like talking to her, 465 00:24:58,436 --> 00:25:00,156 Speaker 6: just because like I felt like there was never any 466 00:25:00,196 --> 00:25:07,516 Speaker 6: closure there, but like, oh God, like why did you 467 00:25:07,836 --> 00:25:11,796 Speaker 6: do this? I like a part of me believes that 468 00:25:11,876 --> 00:25:16,756 Speaker 6: she's just like a really broken person that just have 469 00:25:16,876 --> 00:25:20,556 Speaker 6: a lot of issues and just can't help but to 470 00:25:20,596 --> 00:25:21,916 Speaker 6: recavoc wherever she goes. 471 00:25:30,436 --> 00:25:32,396 Speaker 4: I always wonder, I mean, all of the time and 472 00:25:32,516 --> 00:25:35,516 Speaker 4: effort that she put into creating scams and creating all 473 00:25:35,556 --> 00:25:38,036 Speaker 4: these things, if she just took the brains of that 474 00:25:38,196 --> 00:25:41,236 Speaker 4: and did something right with her life, she could probably 475 00:25:41,316 --> 00:25:41,996 Speaker 4: be successful. 476 00:25:42,436 --> 00:25:45,956 Speaker 2: It's unreal because our dad had just sold his business 477 00:25:46,116 --> 00:25:49,836 Speaker 2: just before they bought the Dragonfly, and he invested sort 478 00:25:49,836 --> 00:25:52,716 Speaker 2: of two hundred grand cash and then guaranteed the loan 479 00:25:53,276 --> 00:25:56,356 Speaker 2: for them. She didn't invest a single cent and the 480 00:25:56,356 --> 00:26:00,196 Speaker 2: whole thing. Yet she had this opportunity we were talking 481 00:26:00,196 --> 00:26:03,836 Speaker 2: about it today, where like it was a beautiful place 482 00:26:03,956 --> 00:26:05,716 Speaker 2: and it was in a nice part of New Zealand, 483 00:26:05,796 --> 00:26:08,796 Speaker 2: and it had a great start and everyone she could 484 00:26:08,836 --> 00:26:11,356 Speaker 2: have if she ran it, well, it could have been 485 00:26:11,356 --> 00:26:26,356 Speaker 2: a great life. So again, I don't understand why Leslie 486 00:26:26,356 --> 00:26:29,636 Speaker 2: seems to mess up these great opportunities in her life. 487 00:26:30,836 --> 00:26:33,956 Speaker 2: By now, I sort of expected to find a bigger purpose, 488 00:26:34,756 --> 00:26:38,756 Speaker 2: a master plan, some kind of reason for all this. 489 00:26:40,756 --> 00:26:44,476 Speaker 2: Like you'd think there would be a bigger payoff for Leslie. 490 00:26:45,276 --> 00:26:47,796 Speaker 2: Even if these tens of thousands of dollars are going 491 00:26:47,796 --> 00:26:52,156 Speaker 2: into her own pockets, is it worth her? In the end? 492 00:26:52,436 --> 00:26:55,676 Speaker 2: Leslie doesn't seem to end up with much. She's not 493 00:26:55,756 --> 00:26:59,236 Speaker 2: a master criminal. Some of these fake documents look like 494 00:26:59,316 --> 00:27:05,036 Speaker 2: she's made them with real life scissors and glue. Her 495 00:27:05,036 --> 00:27:09,476 Speaker 2: deceptions always seem to catch up with her. And then 496 00:27:10,116 --> 00:27:15,156 Speaker 2: Leslie's whole world gets turned upside down yet again, and 497 00:27:15,196 --> 00:27:19,356 Speaker 2: she has to move to a new place. So why 498 00:27:19,396 --> 00:27:22,836 Speaker 2: does she do it? 499 00:27:23,036 --> 00:27:23,956 Speaker 5: We'll be right back. 500 00:27:26,396 --> 00:27:29,436 Speaker 2: Cameron does mention one thing I've heard before, something that 501 00:27:29,636 --> 00:27:31,156 Speaker 2: might explain some of what she does. 502 00:27:31,716 --> 00:27:34,236 Speaker 4: I know her parents helped her and support her. There 503 00:27:34,316 --> 00:27:37,436 Speaker 4: was definitely one credit card that I remember that she 504 00:27:37,556 --> 00:27:40,116 Speaker 4: had said something about, like she ran up a credit 505 00:27:40,196 --> 00:27:42,756 Speaker 4: card and her parents paid it off for her, and 506 00:27:42,836 --> 00:27:45,036 Speaker 4: so therefore she had to give them money at various 507 00:27:45,036 --> 00:27:47,476 Speaker 4: times to help pay off the credit card that she 508 00:27:47,596 --> 00:27:49,436 Speaker 4: ran up, and it was a big number but I 509 00:27:49,636 --> 00:27:51,996 Speaker 4: just remember she would sometimes have to make payments to 510 00:27:52,036 --> 00:27:52,516 Speaker 4: her parents. 511 00:27:53,676 --> 00:27:55,596 Speaker 2: This kind of thing was going on when Leslie was 512 00:27:55,596 --> 00:27:58,796 Speaker 2: in New Zealand. Two. There's an email her mum Betty 513 00:27:58,876 --> 00:28:01,516 Speaker 2: sent warning Leslie about using their credit card. 514 00:28:03,196 --> 00:28:05,796 Speaker 13: The last time you had it was for two days 515 00:28:05,836 --> 00:28:08,756 Speaker 13: and you ran up two thousand dollars on it, of 516 00:28:08,796 --> 00:28:11,716 Speaker 13: which although I was promised to pay back, it never 517 00:28:11,836 --> 00:28:14,156 Speaker 13: came as usual. 518 00:28:16,316 --> 00:28:19,396 Speaker 2: So maybe Leslie is constantly in debt, and maybe the 519 00:28:19,436 --> 00:28:21,956 Speaker 2: one debt that she can never really run away from 520 00:28:22,396 --> 00:28:29,156 Speaker 2: is the one she owes to her parents. Cameron spent 521 00:28:29,196 --> 00:28:32,076 Speaker 2: a fair bit of time with Leslie's parents. They even 522 00:28:32,076 --> 00:28:34,116 Speaker 2: moved up to paser Robles for a while when things 523 00:28:34,116 --> 00:28:37,116 Speaker 2: were going well. By the time Cameron was trying to 524 00:28:37,116 --> 00:28:41,676 Speaker 2: figure out the phenomenal financials, kind of surprisingly, Leslie's mum, 525 00:28:41,756 --> 00:28:45,476 Speaker 2: Betty came to help with the books. One night, Betty 526 00:28:45,556 --> 00:28:48,316 Speaker 2: was in the restaurant office when Cameron was realizing how 527 00:28:48,356 --> 00:28:53,356 Speaker 2: bad things were, and Betty said something that stuck with him. 528 00:28:53,636 --> 00:28:56,396 Speaker 4: At some point in time, we were discussing something and 529 00:28:56,436 --> 00:28:59,116 Speaker 4: I said, well, this is unacceptable. We can't be running 530 00:28:59,156 --> 00:29:01,796 Speaker 4: a business in this way. And then Betty was like 531 00:29:01,836 --> 00:29:03,756 Speaker 4: what's going on? Because I don't raise my voice very often, 532 00:29:03,756 --> 00:29:06,956 Speaker 4: and I was like, this is just insane, how can 533 00:29:06,996 --> 00:29:10,676 Speaker 4: this be happening? And then she's like, oh, oh, she's 534 00:29:10,716 --> 00:29:18,036 Speaker 4: done it again, And it was just this revelation, like 535 00:29:18,036 --> 00:29:20,556 Speaker 4: all of a sudden, she just knew what had happened 536 00:29:20,596 --> 00:29:22,996 Speaker 4: and where we are. And Betty picked up her purse 537 00:29:23,196 --> 00:29:24,596 Speaker 4: and left, never to be seen again. 538 00:29:25,156 --> 00:29:29,316 Speaker 2: Cameron had seen enough. He kicked Leslie out, and he 539 00:29:29,436 --> 00:29:31,596 Speaker 2: warned the bank what he suspected was going on. 540 00:29:32,596 --> 00:29:34,956 Speaker 4: And she went in the day that I shut it 541 00:29:35,036 --> 00:29:37,076 Speaker 4: off and was trying to withdraw a large sum of 542 00:29:37,156 --> 00:29:39,476 Speaker 4: money and they said, nope, you're off the account. She 543 00:29:39,636 --> 00:29:43,276 Speaker 4: apparently started crying and saying that's not fair. That's my business, 544 00:29:43,276 --> 00:29:45,796 Speaker 4: this is my company, this is all these things right there. 545 00:29:46,476 --> 00:29:48,556 Speaker 4: So the president of that bank told me all this 546 00:29:48,556 --> 00:29:49,196 Speaker 4: soul story. 547 00:29:50,356 --> 00:29:55,796 Speaker 2: So Lislie was gone from another restaurant, another mess. This 548 00:29:55,956 --> 00:29:59,796 Speaker 2: time Lislie didn't go far. Cameron has a clue for 549 00:29:59,916 --> 00:30:03,356 Speaker 2: us about where Leslie might be now. He's actually been 550 00:30:03,476 --> 00:30:06,476 Speaker 2: kind of getting running updates about where Leslie is from 551 00:30:06,516 --> 00:30:12,436 Speaker 2: a pretty strange source. For some reason, when they were together, 552 00:30:12,876 --> 00:30:16,076 Speaker 2: his email address got added to her loyalty account with 553 00:30:16,156 --> 00:30:17,836 Speaker 2: a big American pharmacy chain. 554 00:30:17,796 --> 00:30:20,196 Speaker 4: And so somehow I get these emails that says, every 555 00:30:20,236 --> 00:30:22,756 Speaker 4: time she makes a purchase, I get a. 556 00:30:22,356 --> 00:30:25,036 Speaker 5: Receipt for what she purchased. And at first it was 557 00:30:25,076 --> 00:30:25,676 Speaker 5: kind of comical. 558 00:30:25,756 --> 00:30:28,996 Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, great, so she's buying gummy worms, some 559 00:30:29,116 --> 00:30:33,836 Speaker 4: Nike wool, some crazy mescara or whatever. Oh wow, okay, 560 00:30:33,916 --> 00:30:36,396 Speaker 4: so she must have a call this weekend and oh hey, 561 00:30:36,596 --> 00:30:38,556 Speaker 4: you know, now she's got the munchies because she's buying 562 00:30:38,596 --> 00:30:41,796 Speaker 4: all these snack things. And it was it was quite 563 00:30:41,796 --> 00:30:45,596 Speaker 4: comical to know that she was still in the area 564 00:30:45,676 --> 00:30:50,436 Speaker 4: and at the same time going she hasn't changed a thing. 565 00:30:50,316 --> 00:30:53,036 Speaker 2: Cameron tells Simon and I the receipts have been coming 566 00:30:53,036 --> 00:30:56,316 Speaker 2: from a place called San Louis Obispo. 567 00:30:56,596 --> 00:30:58,516 Speaker 5: Saint Louis OBISBA. 568 00:30:58,556 --> 00:31:01,116 Speaker 4: How far is that from here, Cameron, it's about thirty 569 00:31:01,156 --> 00:31:01,796 Speaker 4: minutes from here. 570 00:31:04,036 --> 00:31:08,036 Speaker 2: That's us. So Simon and I jumped back in the car. 571 00:31:09,836 --> 00:31:16,556 Speaker 2: Next stop on road trip to Snowball. It's an easy 572 00:31:16,636 --> 00:31:20,956 Speaker 2: drive through a valley. San Luis Obispo is a tidy 573 00:31:20,956 --> 00:31:24,556 Speaker 2: little town, mostly one and two story buildings surrounded by 574 00:31:24,556 --> 00:31:28,916 Speaker 2: green hills, but there is something about this place that 575 00:31:29,036 --> 00:31:32,076 Speaker 2: starts to freak me out. We are entering what is 576 00:31:32,156 --> 00:31:38,756 Speaker 2: probably Leslie's town, so she might see us nervous again. 577 00:31:39,596 --> 00:31:42,996 Speaker 2: Imagine feeling nervous for like weeks on end, and that's me. 578 00:31:43,316 --> 00:31:47,836 Speaker 2: I have this not in my stomach because we could 579 00:31:47,876 --> 00:31:50,716 Speaker 2: be busted at any time, and I don't know what 580 00:31:50,756 --> 00:31:52,316 Speaker 2: they would mean. I don't know what it would feel 581 00:31:52,396 --> 00:31:55,316 Speaker 2: like for Leslie to see us and go, WHOA, Simon 582 00:31:55,356 --> 00:31:58,396 Speaker 2: and Ollie, I've always known that somebody was going to 583 00:31:58,436 --> 00:32:02,876 Speaker 2: come looking for me or which has it been long enough? 584 00:32:02,916 --> 00:32:04,956 Speaker 2: And she's got no idea and we're just a couple 585 00:32:04,996 --> 00:32:08,396 Speaker 2: of Americans, one in a Detroit Tiger's hat and one 586 00:32:08,396 --> 00:32:12,996 Speaker 2: in a yankees at cruising through town in a muscle car. 587 00:32:13,356 --> 00:32:15,316 Speaker 1: Well, the thing is, I think the amount of people 588 00:32:15,396 --> 00:32:18,436 Speaker 1: that she's jooped like, we're not the only people that 589 00:32:18,556 --> 00:32:21,956 Speaker 1: she's kind of weary of seeing, you know, Imagine the 590 00:32:22,036 --> 00:32:24,476 Speaker 1: list of people that potentially could be coming to look 591 00:32:24,516 --> 00:32:24,796 Speaker 1: for her. 592 00:32:24,876 --> 00:32:27,636 Speaker 2: So the thing is, we still don't know where to 593 00:32:27,716 --> 00:32:30,316 Speaker 2: find her, and we can't just hang out on street 594 00:32:30,316 --> 00:32:33,636 Speaker 2: corners until she walks past or something. But Cameron has 595 00:32:33,676 --> 00:32:39,076 Speaker 2: given us another lead. He knows someone else who lives 596 00:32:39,116 --> 00:32:42,636 Speaker 2: in San Luis Obispo. It's the former wine manager from Phenomenal. 597 00:32:43,036 --> 00:32:45,996 Speaker 2: Apparently she had been friends with Leslie. She's up for 598 00:32:45,996 --> 00:32:47,956 Speaker 2: having a chat with us, so we head over to 599 00:32:47,996 --> 00:32:50,596 Speaker 2: her place. She doesn't want to have her real name 600 00:32:50,716 --> 00:32:53,676 Speaker 2: used either. It's another small town, so I'm going to 601 00:32:53,716 --> 00:32:58,196 Speaker 2: call her Sarah. Here we are. I'm just pulling into 602 00:32:58,276 --> 00:33:00,556 Speaker 2: the driveway a beautiful garden. I think she's there in 603 00:33:00,596 --> 00:33:03,636 Speaker 2: the in the in the garden doing some weeding and stuff. 604 00:33:05,356 --> 00:33:06,116 Speaker 2: This is my brother. 605 00:33:05,996 --> 00:33:09,956 Speaker 7: Simon to meet you. You're not great, I'm not. 606 00:33:11,916 --> 00:33:13,316 Speaker 5: Brother in between us, got it? 607 00:33:13,356 --> 00:33:13,636 Speaker 2: Okay? 608 00:33:13,676 --> 00:33:15,556 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got a little girl to look after and 609 00:33:16,596 --> 00:33:17,596 Speaker 1: job a. 610 00:33:17,596 --> 00:33:19,076 Speaker 2: Bit too emotional, firm coming up. 611 00:33:19,156 --> 00:33:22,676 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. 612 00:33:22,876 --> 00:33:25,876 Speaker 2: Sarah's place is right on a golf course. Like her, 613 00:33:25,916 --> 00:33:30,116 Speaker 2: windows occasionally get smashed by shank shots. She met Leslie 614 00:33:30,236 --> 00:33:33,196 Speaker 2: soon after everything went down and in z when Leslie 615 00:33:33,236 --> 00:33:34,156 Speaker 2: came back to the States. 616 00:33:34,196 --> 00:33:36,556 Speaker 7: An instant friendship. We both just moved to the area. 617 00:33:36,596 --> 00:33:38,876 Speaker 7: We didn't know a ton of people, and we were 618 00:33:38,916 --> 00:33:41,556 Speaker 7: part of this opening team. I was knew, I was nervous. 619 00:33:41,916 --> 00:33:42,356 Speaker 2: I didn't know. 620 00:33:42,396 --> 00:33:44,876 Speaker 7: I only knew one other person, and so the charm 621 00:33:44,916 --> 00:33:48,636 Speaker 7: definitely drew me in. She just, you know, she has 622 00:33:48,956 --> 00:33:53,116 Speaker 7: this very charismatic quality about her that she can just 623 00:33:53,276 --> 00:33:56,116 Speaker 7: introduce herself and instantly want to try and make a 624 00:33:56,156 --> 00:34:00,956 Speaker 7: connection with you. And it's like she uses her wide range, 625 00:34:01,156 --> 00:34:04,556 Speaker 7: as she said it, of worldly experience and uses it 626 00:34:04,596 --> 00:34:06,716 Speaker 7: to kind of become a little bit of a like 627 00:34:06,756 --> 00:34:10,316 Speaker 7: an older sister. It will get better. Everything's okay, you 628 00:34:10,396 --> 00:34:12,596 Speaker 7: are amazing, You've got so much going for you. And 629 00:34:12,636 --> 00:34:15,876 Speaker 7: that was just that was her way. 630 00:34:17,716 --> 00:34:19,956 Speaker 2: I've got one thing on my mind that I can't 631 00:34:19,996 --> 00:34:22,996 Speaker 2: help but ask, you know, please tell us what you 632 00:34:23,796 --> 00:34:25,356 Speaker 2: heard about what happened in New Zealand. 633 00:34:25,716 --> 00:34:29,476 Speaker 7: Well, I heard your family's pretty terrible, pretty terrible. 634 00:34:30,476 --> 00:34:32,596 Speaker 2: Simon's laughing sounds. 635 00:34:33,516 --> 00:34:38,556 Speaker 7: Yeah, no, I remember, because I was going to New Zealand. 636 00:34:38,556 --> 00:34:40,236 Speaker 7: She told me, never fall in love with the Kiwi. 637 00:34:40,236 --> 00:34:42,076 Speaker 7: They're the worst man, the worst man. You never want 638 00:34:42,116 --> 00:34:45,316 Speaker 7: to fall in love with the Kiwi. But about your family, 639 00:34:45,356 --> 00:34:48,196 Speaker 7: she basically distilled it down to, was your parents were 640 00:34:48,236 --> 00:34:49,276 Speaker 7: after her parents' money. 641 00:34:49,996 --> 00:34:52,236 Speaker 2: But as far as we can tell, Leslie might have 642 00:34:52,276 --> 00:34:56,996 Speaker 2: actually transferred my parents' money to her mom and dad. Anyway, 643 00:34:57,676 --> 00:34:59,956 Speaker 2: while she was away from the US, Sarah stayed in 644 00:35:00,036 --> 00:35:04,036 Speaker 2: touch with Leslie, and when Phenomenal was opening, Leslie wanted 645 00:35:04,076 --> 00:35:06,356 Speaker 2: Sarah to move back and be part of it. 646 00:35:06,876 --> 00:35:09,756 Speaker 7: Yeah, I was a restaurant person and I always wanted 647 00:35:09,756 --> 00:35:13,236 Speaker 7: to be a Simolia. And so she presented the opportunity. 648 00:35:13,236 --> 00:35:14,916 Speaker 7: She's like, you know what, if you're ready to come home, 649 00:35:14,996 --> 00:35:17,396 Speaker 7: just come home and be be my line director, be 650 00:35:17,436 --> 00:35:20,516 Speaker 7: the person that is that buys the wine for the restaurant. 651 00:35:20,556 --> 00:35:21,716 Speaker 7: You can make all the selections. 652 00:35:22,356 --> 00:35:25,636 Speaker 2: And with that, Sarah became another person drawn into Leslie's 653 00:35:25,676 --> 00:35:26,876 Speaker 2: restaurant dreams. 654 00:35:27,516 --> 00:35:30,396 Speaker 7: But then once kind of the honeymoon period was over, 655 00:35:30,596 --> 00:35:34,956 Speaker 7: I guess for the restaurant, and more rumors started getting 656 00:35:34,996 --> 00:35:37,316 Speaker 7: going around about town that maybe a vendor hadn't been paid. 657 00:35:37,756 --> 00:35:41,516 Speaker 7: Then you know, more seats at empty, fewer people were 658 00:35:41,516 --> 00:35:47,076 Speaker 7: coming in, and Leslie really started disappearing. She just wouldn't 659 00:35:47,076 --> 00:35:49,276 Speaker 7: show up, and she's like, I just can't I'm too 660 00:35:49,276 --> 00:35:49,836 Speaker 7: stressed out. 661 00:35:50,956 --> 00:35:54,156 Speaker 2: Eventually Sarah started to realize what was going on. She 662 00:35:54,196 --> 00:35:56,876 Speaker 2: started asking questions about all the things that didn't add 663 00:35:56,956 --> 00:35:57,796 Speaker 2: up with Leslie. 664 00:35:58,076 --> 00:36:01,476 Speaker 7: So I became public enemy number one in the restaurant. 665 00:36:02,956 --> 00:36:05,156 Speaker 7: I was feeling the rest of the staff treating me differently, 666 00:36:05,196 --> 00:36:08,676 Speaker 7: and that's basically because she was just trashing me, that 667 00:36:08,876 --> 00:36:13,876 Speaker 7: mouth me because I wasn't her little number one worker 668 00:36:13,916 --> 00:36:14,516 Speaker 7: by anymore. 669 00:36:15,756 --> 00:36:18,396 Speaker 2: Sarah says that Leslie tried to make her escapegoat for 670 00:36:18,436 --> 00:36:19,836 Speaker 2: some of the chaos at Phenomenal. 671 00:36:20,396 --> 00:36:21,316 Speaker 5: It was hearpe breaking. 672 00:36:21,476 --> 00:36:25,756 Speaker 7: It was quite frankly heartbreaking and absolutely confidence scheeking because 673 00:36:25,756 --> 00:36:29,196 Speaker 7: I had always prayed myself as being someone a good friend, 674 00:36:29,276 --> 00:36:32,436 Speaker 7: a loyal friend, and really damn good at my job. 675 00:36:34,556 --> 00:36:37,396 Speaker 2: The whole experience left Sarah feeling like she needed to 676 00:36:37,436 --> 00:36:41,276 Speaker 2: get away. She quit, But after Leslie was kicked out 677 00:36:41,276 --> 00:36:45,556 Speaker 2: of Cameron's house and Phenomenal, Leslie didn't move country or 678 00:36:45,596 --> 00:36:49,756 Speaker 2: even state. She moved to the same town as Sarah, 679 00:36:49,796 --> 00:36:52,636 Speaker 2: and being a pretty small town, they eventually ran into 680 00:36:52,676 --> 00:36:57,956 Speaker 2: each other about a year ago. This might be the 681 00:36:57,996 --> 00:37:01,476 Speaker 2: final lead I need to find Leslie. It turns out 682 00:37:01,476 --> 00:37:04,756 Speaker 2: that after running at least four different bars and restaurants 683 00:37:04,796 --> 00:37:09,796 Speaker 2: around the world, Leslie was working in a supermarket. Sarah 684 00:37:09,836 --> 00:37:11,596 Speaker 2: heard her laugh from another aisle. 685 00:37:13,796 --> 00:37:17,476 Speaker 7: Yeah, I heard the laugh, and I was like, surely 686 00:37:17,516 --> 00:37:18,396 Speaker 7: not absolutely not. 687 00:37:18,436 --> 00:37:18,796 Speaker 2: No way. 688 00:37:19,196 --> 00:37:21,916 Speaker 7: And then I got to the end of the aisle 689 00:37:21,956 --> 00:37:25,396 Speaker 7: and I froze and she was like restocking something, and 690 00:37:25,996 --> 00:37:32,116 Speaker 7: she looked over and just says hello, Sarah, and like 691 00:37:32,236 --> 00:37:33,996 Speaker 7: half an aisle away, like she knew it was me. 692 00:37:34,116 --> 00:37:36,476 Speaker 7: She saw it was me, and I was just like, 693 00:37:36,516 --> 00:37:37,316 Speaker 7: oh my gosh. 694 00:37:37,476 --> 00:37:41,476 Speaker 2: Hi. They chatted for a bit. Lasley even acknowledged she 695 00:37:41,476 --> 00:37:43,236 Speaker 2: couldn't get away with much in a small town. 696 00:37:43,716 --> 00:37:45,876 Speaker 7: Well, it was like calling out the elephant in the room. 697 00:37:45,956 --> 00:37:48,956 Speaker 7: We couldn't not talk about what had happened. But then 698 00:37:48,996 --> 00:37:51,996 Speaker 7: it's like she checked herself and realized, oh, this person 699 00:37:52,036 --> 00:37:53,636 Speaker 7: knows some of the things I've tried to get away 700 00:37:53,636 --> 00:37:54,476 Speaker 7: with in a small town. 701 00:37:55,476 --> 00:37:59,476 Speaker 2: Despite everything that happened between them, Leasley almost talked it away. 702 00:37:59,756 --> 00:38:01,476 Speaker 7: I think this is just like a testament to her 703 00:38:01,476 --> 00:38:03,396 Speaker 7: in her charm. When I ran into her at the 704 00:38:03,436 --> 00:38:07,436 Speaker 7: grocery store and listening to her just like spin and 705 00:38:07,476 --> 00:38:10,756 Speaker 7: spin and spin and spin, I felt empathy for her, 706 00:38:11,276 --> 00:38:16,076 Speaker 7: and I really had a hard time stopping myself from 707 00:38:16,156 --> 00:38:18,396 Speaker 7: inviting her over to that gathering I was having at 708 00:38:18,436 --> 00:38:21,436 Speaker 7: my house that night, even though like it was the 709 00:38:21,476 --> 00:38:25,196 Speaker 7: wildest thing, and I'm very grateful that I did not 710 00:38:25,476 --> 00:38:26,876 Speaker 7: open that Pandora's box. 711 00:38:26,916 --> 00:38:27,156 Speaker 3: Again. 712 00:38:27,956 --> 00:38:29,956 Speaker 2: Well that's exactly what I'm going to try and do. 713 00:38:30,596 --> 00:38:34,756 Speaker 2: I'm here to open Pandora's box. The supermarket Sarah is 714 00:38:34,796 --> 00:38:38,156 Speaker 2: talking about is just around the corner. If Leslie still 715 00:38:38,196 --> 00:38:40,836 Speaker 2: works there, I'll be able to find her. How do 716 00:38:40,876 --> 00:38:44,556 Speaker 2: you think she would react when we turn up? Well, 717 00:38:44,596 --> 00:38:47,156 Speaker 2: it'll be just me. Really. Simon's a bit intimidating to 718 00:38:48,116 --> 00:38:50,196 Speaker 2: roll up with as well. I keep saying that, But 719 00:38:50,996 --> 00:38:52,676 Speaker 2: I just find you intimidating. 720 00:38:52,156 --> 00:38:54,036 Speaker 1: Mate, Yeah, because you used to get bitten up when 721 00:38:54,036 --> 00:38:54,436 Speaker 1: you're little. 722 00:38:56,916 --> 00:38:59,716 Speaker 2: What do you think she would say to all of 723 00:38:59,756 --> 00:39:00,996 Speaker 2: this stuff that's happened now. 724 00:39:01,796 --> 00:39:04,116 Speaker 7: I don't think she'll talk to you. I really don't 725 00:39:04,116 --> 00:39:06,036 Speaker 7: think she'll talk to you. I think she'll see you 726 00:39:06,196 --> 00:39:07,556 Speaker 7: and she'll run out the back door. 727 00:39:08,556 --> 00:39:09,716 Speaker 2: She might front Shiel. 728 00:39:09,796 --> 00:39:10,276 Speaker 7: I don't know. 729 00:39:11,876 --> 00:39:14,476 Speaker 2: So this might be it. We might have found Leslie. 730 00:39:16,196 --> 00:39:18,596 Speaker 2: Simon and I figure we'll scope out the supermarket later. 731 00:39:19,156 --> 00:39:21,636 Speaker 2: What we need to do now is call Mum, Dad 732 00:39:21,676 --> 00:39:25,236 Speaker 2: and Greg back home. They're hanging for updates, so we 733 00:39:25,276 --> 00:39:28,356 Speaker 2: find a place to stay and call a family skype meeting. 734 00:39:28,996 --> 00:39:30,356 Speaker 2: It starts the way they always do. 735 00:39:31,636 --> 00:39:36,996 Speaker 14: Good, Hey, your dad, have we got out with your. 736 00:39:38,396 --> 00:39:39,196 Speaker 15: Just look like we have? 737 00:39:40,956 --> 00:39:43,436 Speaker 2: Once the tech stuff is sorted. It's down to business. 738 00:39:43,956 --> 00:39:44,676 Speaker 1: How are you guys? 739 00:39:45,596 --> 00:39:45,796 Speaker 15: Yeah? 740 00:39:45,836 --> 00:39:46,036 Speaker 2: Good? 741 00:39:46,076 --> 00:39:47,796 Speaker 15: Hey, tell us what have you done today? 742 00:39:47,836 --> 00:39:48,516 Speaker 5: For goodness sake? 743 00:39:49,836 --> 00:39:52,676 Speaker 2: I tell them everything you've heard. Just Mum wants more 744 00:39:52,676 --> 00:39:54,996 Speaker 2: detail about what we've been eating and if we're looking 745 00:39:55,076 --> 00:39:58,916 Speaker 2: after ourselves. After hearing Cameron's story and how similar it 746 00:39:58,996 --> 00:40:01,996 Speaker 2: was to ours, Mum has some thoughts. I have no. 747 00:40:01,996 --> 00:40:05,756 Speaker 16: Hatred for here. I don't really have any anger for here. 748 00:40:07,236 --> 00:40:14,716 Speaker 16: She just leaves me. God's mate. It's beyond reason, isn't 749 00:40:14,756 --> 00:40:18,796 Speaker 16: it that she could do these things tonight? We've learned 750 00:40:19,076 --> 00:40:23,436 Speaker 16: from you that it's a pattern, so she knows very 751 00:40:23,476 --> 00:40:25,636 Speaker 16: well what she's doing and what works. 752 00:40:26,596 --> 00:40:28,796 Speaker 2: Then I tell them about where Leslie's been working. 753 00:40:29,676 --> 00:40:30,596 Speaker 5: Works on a supermarket. 754 00:40:31,436 --> 00:40:33,756 Speaker 2: Yeah, man, what do you make of that? 755 00:40:34,676 --> 00:40:36,476 Speaker 14: She'll be planning her way to climb out of it 756 00:40:37,356 --> 00:40:41,396 Speaker 14: by burning someone else. She'll she'll have more mass goar 757 00:40:41,596 --> 00:40:44,276 Speaker 14: on now than ever before, trying to trap someone else. 758 00:40:45,236 --> 00:40:47,636 Speaker 2: And what do you think of everything we've told you 759 00:40:47,676 --> 00:40:47,996 Speaker 2: so far? 760 00:40:48,116 --> 00:40:48,316 Speaker 12: Man? 761 00:40:49,356 --> 00:40:53,476 Speaker 14: Just ticking like lots of bells are going in my head, 762 00:40:54,076 --> 00:40:56,396 Speaker 14: and I just think she needs to be stopped more 763 00:40:56,436 --> 00:40:57,076 Speaker 14: than ever before. 764 00:40:58,076 --> 00:41:00,476 Speaker 2: What we're going to do is stake out the place 765 00:41:00,516 --> 00:41:03,396 Speaker 2: tomorrow and try and figure out what time she's working 766 00:41:03,396 --> 00:41:05,436 Speaker 2: and be there for either the start or end of 767 00:41:05,436 --> 00:41:09,116 Speaker 2: her shift. It's very important that we don't intimidate her physically, 768 00:41:10,596 --> 00:41:14,916 Speaker 2: you know, threaten or getting any sort of altercation. I'm 769 00:41:14,956 --> 00:41:19,556 Speaker 2: really going in palms open, trying to be friendly, Greg. 770 00:41:19,636 --> 00:41:20,716 Speaker 2: What do you think she's gonna say? 771 00:41:21,436 --> 00:41:29,356 Speaker 14: Firstly, I wouldn't probably expect too much. She's she'll the 772 00:41:29,476 --> 00:41:32,516 Speaker 14: mechanics in her head will work pretty fast and she'll 773 00:41:32,556 --> 00:41:37,756 Speaker 14: be this is not good for Leslie. Minuchians. What's an 774 00:41:37,876 --> 00:41:40,116 Speaker 14: escape route? 775 00:41:40,876 --> 00:41:44,116 Speaker 2: So what will I do if I've got this one shot, 776 00:41:44,636 --> 00:41:49,476 Speaker 2: one opportunity to talk to Leslie? I want to know 777 00:41:49,516 --> 00:41:52,436 Speaker 2: what everyone would want me to say, So we go 778 00:41:52,516 --> 00:41:53,316 Speaker 2: round the room. 779 00:41:54,316 --> 00:41:58,316 Speaker 15: Just to basically turn a life around. That would be 780 00:41:58,356 --> 00:41:59,156 Speaker 15: my thought for her. 781 00:41:59,916 --> 00:42:04,316 Speaker 12: I would say, she needs to know what a hell 782 00:42:04,356 --> 00:42:07,556 Speaker 12: of a lot of life she's missed out on, that 783 00:42:07,676 --> 00:42:10,236 Speaker 12: she could have had a really nice life here in 784 00:42:10,316 --> 00:42:10,876 Speaker 12: New Zealand. 785 00:42:13,716 --> 00:42:19,556 Speaker 15: My desire for her would be that she understands the 786 00:42:19,596 --> 00:42:23,036 Speaker 15: issues that she's dealt out to a lot of people 787 00:42:23,076 --> 00:42:31,796 Speaker 15: around the world, that she genuinely seeks to rehabilitate herself 788 00:42:31,796 --> 00:42:35,956 Speaker 15: into some sort of normality. I don't know how that 789 00:42:36,036 --> 00:42:38,956 Speaker 15: could be. Maybe doctor Phil could help her. 790 00:42:38,956 --> 00:42:41,716 Speaker 2: At long last, there it is again, Dad getting a 791 00:42:41,716 --> 00:42:46,756 Speaker 2: plugin for doctor Phil. Simon and I are laughing so 792 00:42:46,916 --> 00:42:51,156 Speaker 2: hard we have to turn our mic off. Greg has 793 00:42:51,196 --> 00:42:54,356 Speaker 2: been really courageous letting me tell this story. I've been 794 00:42:54,396 --> 00:42:56,236 Speaker 2: hoping that this whole thing will bring him some sort 795 00:42:56,276 --> 00:42:59,756 Speaker 2: of closure. So I asked him what he would say 796 00:42:59,796 --> 00:43:00,316 Speaker 2: to Leslie. 797 00:43:01,236 --> 00:43:05,396 Speaker 14: That's a tough, tough question, but it would be along 798 00:43:05,436 --> 00:43:10,636 Speaker 14: the lines that her behavior has to come to an end, 799 00:43:12,036 --> 00:43:16,516 Speaker 14: and chaps from New Zealand are going to help bring 800 00:43:16,516 --> 00:43:21,556 Speaker 14: that end of behavior about Sorry, well sorry? What what 801 00:43:21,716 --> 00:43:22,916 Speaker 14: I want you to say to her? 802 00:43:23,036 --> 00:43:23,436 Speaker 5: Right now? 803 00:43:24,196 --> 00:43:29,036 Speaker 14: I'll just say it's it's over, because we're gonna make 804 00:43:29,076 --> 00:43:29,716 Speaker 14: it that way. 805 00:43:31,916 --> 00:43:33,756 Speaker 2: You have been real brave through all this, man. We 806 00:43:34,916 --> 00:43:37,596 Speaker 2: as we wrap up sharing some love, there's another message 807 00:43:37,636 --> 00:43:38,356 Speaker 2: that gets repeated. 808 00:43:38,596 --> 00:43:39,716 Speaker 15: Be safe, Be safe. 809 00:43:39,796 --> 00:43:41,196 Speaker 14: Love you guys, man, Love you, guys. 810 00:43:42,396 --> 00:43:42,876 Speaker 1: Love you. 811 00:43:45,196 --> 00:43:47,756 Speaker 2: After our family meeting, I lie awake in the cheap 812 00:43:47,796 --> 00:43:50,876 Speaker 2: motel bed, rehearsing what I'm going to say. I've been 813 00:43:50,916 --> 00:43:53,916 Speaker 2: working on this thing for months, but my family has 814 00:43:53,956 --> 00:43:57,836 Speaker 2: been dealing with the fallout for years. And all this 815 00:43:57,996 --> 00:44:00,716 Speaker 2: time later it could all come to some sort of culmination. 816 00:44:01,676 --> 00:44:12,756 Speaker 2: I have no idea what I'm in for where. Okay, 817 00:44:13,276 --> 00:44:19,436 Speaker 2: oh yeah, I see you, I see you. That's next 818 00:44:19,436 --> 00:44:20,756 Speaker 2: time on Snowball. 819 00:44:49,316 --> 00:44:53,756 Speaker 6: Binge episodes of deep Cover presents Snowball early and ad 820 00:44:53,876 --> 00:44:55,996 Speaker 6: free with a Pushkin Plus subscription. 821 00:44:56,836 --> 00:44:58,316 Speaker 5: Fine Pushkin Plus. 822 00:44:57,956 --> 00:45:01,756 Speaker 4: On the deep Cover show page in Apple Podcasts, or 823 00:45:01,796 --> 00:45:04,556 Speaker 4: at pushkin dot fm slash Plus. 824 00:45:05,156 --> 00:45:08,956 Speaker 6: Pushkin Plus subscribers can access ad free episodes, full of 825 00:45:09,156 --> 00:45:13,676 Speaker 6: udio books and exclusive binges of other true crime podcasts 826 00:45:13,716 --> 00:45:14,436 Speaker 6: throughout the year.