1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Noble Blood, A production of iHeartRadio and Grim 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Manky. Listener discretion advised. I weep 3 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: when I think that you will probably not receive the 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: first news of me until Saturday. As much as you 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: love me, I love you even more deeply, But but 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: never hide yourself from me. Good Night, As one bathing, 7 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: I must go to sleep. Oh God, so near, so far? 8 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: Is not our love a true heavenly edifice, but also 9 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 1: firm like the firmament. This is a widely accepted translation 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: of a piece of the second part of Beethoven's famous 11 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: Immortal Beloved Letter. This portion, in particular, weaves together passionate 12 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: language and specific references in a way that provides context clues, and, 13 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: almost two centuries later, still Bill Spark's debates between musicologists, historians, 14 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 1: and ardent Beethoven aficionados. In the spirit of classic sonata form, 15 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: Let's do a quick recap of what we covered in 16 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: part one. The Immortal Beloved Letter was found in Beethoven's 17 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: Vienna estate after he died in eighteen twenty seven, and 18 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: published in eighteen forty by his secretary, who likely misdated 19 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: the letter and misidentified its romantic mark. Further research showed 20 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: that Beethoven almost certainly wrote the letter in eighteen twelve, 21 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,919 Speaker 1: when he was in the Austrian resort town of Taplets. 22 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: Before arriving there, he was in Prague and probably saw 23 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: his immortal beloved for one possibly steamy night. He also 24 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: must have had an inkling she was headed to Carlsbad, 25 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: another Spa town. This all led several scholars, especially in 26 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: the US, to believe that the immortal beloved was Antony Brentano. 27 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: Her whereabouts lined up, But this claim raised questions about 28 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: Beethoven's morals and patterns of both falling for unattainable women 29 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: and ingratiating himself with prominent families. Those behavioral patterns all 30 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: factor into the case for the other most widely believed 31 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: immortal beloved candidate, Countess Josephine von Brunswick. Just about all 32 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: biographers seem to agree that Beethoven's love for Josephine surpassed 33 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: all others, But does that mean beyond a doubt she 34 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: was the muse of his soulful but perplexing letter. Yet again, 35 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: the potential links between Beethoven's personal life and his work 36 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: are too compelling to ignore, for example, what we're listening 37 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: to now. A composition for solo piano titled Andante Favori 38 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: was originally a movement for a full sonata before Beethoven 39 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: pulled it out to be a standalone piece on its own. 40 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: It was purportedly intended to be a declaration of love 41 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: to Josephine, and one that some musicologists claim directly connects 42 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: to other works in Beethoven's repertoire, as well as to 43 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: that all important letter that stirred up the eternally beguiling 44 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:42,839 Speaker 1: story of his immortal beloved. I'm Danas Schwartz and this 45 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: is noble blood. In seventeen ninety nine, the Brunswick sisters 46 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: went on an exciting trip to Vienna, where Teres and 47 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: Josephine both took music lessons from Bethos. The twenty eight 48 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: year old composer already had an illustrious reputation by then, and, 49 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: according to Therese's memoirs, became so fond of her and 50 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: her sister that he came every day to teach them 51 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 1: for the rest of their stay. Later, he jointly dedicated 52 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: the work six variations on his iicdank Dine for four 53 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: hands to both of them. A highly motivating factor in 54 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: Beethoven's wanting to teach the two Brunswick sisters for free, 55 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: no less was that he supposedly became infatuated with the 56 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: twenty year old Josephine right away. It's largely accepted that 57 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: Beethoven wrote and unofficially dedicated multiple works to Josephine. He 58 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: likely would have officially dedicated many pieces in published form 59 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: to her if not for the sizeable obstacles standing in 60 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: the way of their possible romance. A monument mental issue 61 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: was social class. The Brunsvicks, who by European nobility standards 62 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: were far from the most prominent or powerful, were still 63 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: reportedly firmly against Josephine marrying a commoner, even if that 64 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:23,559 Speaker 1: commoner was the Beethoven, an already renowned composer and sought 65 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: after teacher. So tragically for Beethoven, although Josephine was reportedly 66 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: his type to a tea incredibly beautiful, engaging, musically talented, 67 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: her mother set her up with someone in Vienna whom 68 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: she saw as more suitably high class, a man named 69 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: Joseph Count Dame. Despite Josephine being much younger than the Count, 70 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: and perhaps being initially ordered into the marriage. By many accounts, 71 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: the relationship turned into a relatively happy one. According to 72 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: some sources, Betooven was disheartened, but his relationship with Josephine 73 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: did not end. He remained close with the Brunswicks and 74 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: kept giving Josephine music lessons for years. Beethoven even established 75 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: a close friendship with Count Dame, which makes some of 76 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: Beethoven's true intentions and romantic feelings a little tricky to 77 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: infer during this period. Then, in eighteen o four, Beethoven 78 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: began making his affections very clear. While Josephine was pregnant 79 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 1: with her fourth child, Count Dame died. In an apparent 80 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: attempt to comfort the grief stricken Josephine, Beethoven wrote her 81 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: the song and die hoffnuon or to Hope, set to 82 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: text by C. A. Tch. In doing so, he allegedly 83 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: caused a small kerfuffle when a visiting prince saw the 84 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: un published version with Josephine's name on it. Beethoven then 85 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: basically had to do damage control as word that he 86 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: was planning to officially dedicate a piece to a recently 87 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: widowed countess might have caused a public scandal. Still, in private, 88 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: Beethoven's love steadily crescendoed. Once the possibility of Josephine remarrying 89 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: was on the table, a series of fourteen love letters 90 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: he wrote to her were found in the Brunswick family's 91 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: possession and published in nineteen fifty seven. According to many 92 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: modern historians and musicologists, these passionate messages were likely sent 93 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: from eighteen oh four up until eighteen o nine or 94 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: eighteen ten, and Beethoven's phrasing in them is notable. In 95 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: relation to his Immortal Beloved letter. He addresses Josephine as 96 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: my angel in both, and in his love letter series 97 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: he makes many references to remaining faithful to her, calling 98 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: her his beloved, his only Jay, and his beloved Jay. 99 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: Of course, a crucial factor in all of this, and 100 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: one that has spawned immense debate, is the level to 101 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:27,679 Speaker 1: which Josephine reciprocated Beethoven's feelings. Relatively little of her own 102 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: writing seems to have survived, so it's tricky to gauge 103 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: her emotional mindset at various points. Still, a few of 104 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: Josephine's letters were ultimately unearthed. Here is a translated portion 105 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 1: of one of her written replies to Beethoven's love letters. 106 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: My soul was already enthusiastic for you, even before I 107 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: knew you personally. This was increased through your affection. A 108 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: deep feeling in my soul incapable of Russian made me 109 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: love you. However, later in the same letter, she went 110 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: on to say, this preference that you granted me the 111 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: pleasure of your acquaintance, would have been the finest jewel 112 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: of my life if you could have loved me less sensually. Similarly, 113 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: in another letter, she stated, you have long had my heart, 114 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: dear Beethoven. If this assurance can give you joy, then 115 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: receive it, but later clarified, I love you inexpressibly as 116 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: one gentle soul to another. Are you not capable of 117 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: this covenant? I am not receptive to other forms of 118 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: love for the present. Some biographers have argued that while 119 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: Josephine cherished Beethoven's friendship and musical genius, she very kindly 120 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: yet firmly tried to shut down his amorous overtures. Others 121 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: have claimed that Josephine's true romantic inclinations are hard to ascertain, 122 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: since she so often had to weigh them against her 123 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: financial troubles, maternal responsibilities, and family's wishes. Researchers then dialed 124 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: up even more of this analytical dissonance when they eventually 125 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: compiled the letters, notes, and diary fragments of Josephine's sister 126 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: Theres and published them in nineteen thirty eight, long after 127 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: her death. Some of these documents show that after the 128 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: Immortal Beloved Letter was published and Julietta Jucciardi was proposed 129 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: as the intended recipient, Theres doubted the mysterious letter was 130 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: to Julieta. She assumed it must have been to her 131 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: sister Josephine, although it's possible Theres's understanding of the letter's 132 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 1: date may have still been off. In any case, Here 133 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: is a translation of one of Theresa's entries Beethoven. It 134 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: is like a dream that he was the friend, the 135 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: confident of our house, a beautiful mind. Why did not 136 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: my sister Josephine, as widow dame take him as her husband, 137 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: Josephine's soulmate. They were born for each other. The timing 138 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: of the release of documents relating to the Immortal Beloved Letter, 139 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: along with the absence of some of Josephine's personal writings 140 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: does beg some questions about the Brunswick family. Did some 141 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: information take a while in getting out simply because descendants 142 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: and researchers needed time to comb through a large or 143 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: disorganized state, or were members of the Brunswick family at 144 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 1: times motivated to keep some materials out of public view. 145 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 1: If so, was there a general fear of dirty laundry 146 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: being aired, or was there a more specific scandal to 147 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: be carefully covered up, because according to some scholars, there's 148 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: a chance Josephine could have been in Prague on July third, 149 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: eighteen twelve, and, as the more sealicious version of the 150 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: theory goes, a one night tryst with Beethoven produced a 151 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: Love Letter and a Love Child as a prelude to 152 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: our celebrated composer's pivotal spa filled summer. Here's a bit 153 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 1: more backstory, accompanied by Beethoven's piano trio in D major, 154 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 1: Opis seventy number one, nicknamed the Ghost Trio. He composed 155 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: it in eighteen o eight and dedicated it to Countess 156 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: Marie Erduri, who, fun fact, was an another person briefly 157 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: floated as the immortal Beloved while Beethoven was off courting 158 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: other countesses. After seemingly being rebuffed for years by Josephine, 159 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: Josephine met Estonian baron Christoph van Stockelberg in eighteen o eight. 160 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: She got pregnant, and though her family was reportedly not 161 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: thrilled about the match, she married Stockelberg in eighteen ten 162 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: in a wedding with no guests. Sadly for Josephine, according 163 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: to virtually all accounts, her second marriage was miserable. Stockelberg 164 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: turned out to have extensive money troubles. Additionally, at that 165 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: time in the Austrian Empire, aristocratic mothers were beholden to 166 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: their husbands when it came to retaining custody and guardianship 167 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: of their children, and Stockelberg allegedly often manipulated Josephine by 168 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: threatening to take her children away from her, and often 169 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: followed through. Given those familial problems, Josephine's apparent whereabouts in 170 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: eighteen twelve and her seemingly ended relationship with Beethoven at 171 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: the time, many scholars ruled her out as the addressee 172 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: of the Immortal Beloved Letter for the record, though several 173 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: did contend that Josephine was the intended recipient at different 174 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: points in the twentieth century. To them, the fraught but 175 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: enduring romantic connection was undeniable, even if some of the 176 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: logistics were difficult to explain and over time for their. 177 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: Examinations of Beethoven's other love letters and Terrez's diary, as 178 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: well as additional Brunswick family documents that have surfaced in 179 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: the last twenty years, appear to have bolstered the case 180 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: for Josephine, or at least weakn and some arguments against 181 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: her as the immortal beloved. For instance, in two thousand 182 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: and seven, a Canadian musicologist found and published more documents 183 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: from the Brunswick estate. Excerpts from Josephine's diary and notes 184 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: left behind by her second husband, including a table of 185 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: moral rules he left her to follow, make their relationship 186 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: seem very rocky during the summer of eighteen twelve. They 187 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: also show that Stockelberg likely left Josephine on her own 188 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: that June and July. Furthermore, in a diary entry in 189 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: June of eighteen twelve, Josephine expressed an intention to visit Prague. 190 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: This makes it highly possible that she was in the 191 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: city on July third, when Beethoven potentially had a fateful 192 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: romantic rendez prior to writing his Immortal Beloved letter. Deeper 193 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: analysis also revealed that Josephine possibly had plans to go 194 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: to Carlsbad. Currently, there's no proof she went, but her 195 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: intention to go could have been enough for Beethoven to 196 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: consider sending his letter to Kay, and her then not 197 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: going to Carlsbad after all, might have been a reason 198 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: he never sent it. Here things become more speculative in 199 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: several historians' claims. Some argue that Beethoven and Josephine met 200 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: in Prague, and due to her unhappy and unfulfilling marriage, 201 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: and perhaps even as the culmination of years of secretive longing, 202 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: the two shared a night of passionate intimacy. Backers of 203 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: this theory often point out the suspicious timing of the 204 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: birth of Josephine's daughter, Minona, nine months after her apparent 205 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: separation from Stockelberg, as well as remarks people made about 206 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: how Minona looked very different from her siblings. A child 207 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: born out of wedlock would also help to explain some 208 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: of the Brunswick's later interfamily conflicts and Beethoven's cryptic messages. 209 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: All that said, critics of this idea tend to dismiss 210 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: it as pure sensationalism and similar to there being skepticism 211 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: about the other main candidate we covered, Antony Brentano, There 212 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: are vastly differing opinions on Josephine as the Immortal Beloved. 213 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: Some scholars assert that Josephine clearly dashed Beethoven's romantic hopes 214 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: and cut him off several years before eighteen twelve, while 215 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: others maintain that Beta Beethoven kept up his relationship or 216 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: some form of communication with Josephine and her siblings. Some 217 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 1: say Josephine couldn't have been the Immortal Beloved because of 218 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 1: the conversation referenced in Fanny Gientasio's eighteen sixteen diary entry, 219 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: in which Beethoven said he'd gotten to know a woman 220 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: five years before and that it was the greatest happiness 221 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: of his life. Other question that diaries possible bias, since 222 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: Fanny herself was supposedly enamored with Beethoven and her father 223 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: was sessing out whether the composer might want to marry her. 224 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 1: Of the many researchers who do accept the entry's account, 225 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: some still interpret the five years comment Fanny made in 226 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: different ways. Maybe it was a rough estimate by Fanny. 227 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: Was it when Beethoven met a certain woman for the 228 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: first time, or could it have been when he got 229 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: to know someone more intimately? This brings us back to 230 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: the subjectivity of such personal documents and leads us to 231 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: the case for one last immortal beloved candidate, Bettina von 232 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: Arnim formerly Brentano. Bettina has not gained quite the same 233 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: level of scholarly support as Antony or Josephine, but she's 234 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: recently garnered increased interest. She was the half sister of 235 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: Franz Brentano, who married Antony, and many of the same 236 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: parameters that contributed to the argument for Antony seemingly also 237 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: applied to her. Bettina also met Beethoven in eighteen ten, 238 00:19:55,359 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: thus fulfilling the rough window of Fanny's diary entry. By 239 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: eighteen twelve, she was married, hence the hypothetical need for secrecy. 240 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: Betina also intended to go to Carlsbad in the summer 241 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: of eighteen twelve, then supposedly changed her plans and went 242 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: to Teplete where Beethoven wrote his letter, which would readily 243 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: explain why he didn't need to send it. Bettina was 244 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: also an exceedingly accomplished singer, pianist, and composer, which possibly 245 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: made her especially attractive to Beethoven. Again, his romantic feelings 246 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 1: allegedly hinged on many traits. It is interesting, though, that 247 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: some of his strongest infatuations did seem to involve many 248 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 1: women who were themselves terrific musicians. One further link is 249 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:57,719 Speaker 1: that among Beethoven's surviving letters, there appeared to be only 250 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: two in which he used the the informal German do 251 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: form of you when writing to a woman. One was 252 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: his Immortal Beloved letter, the other was a letter he 253 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: sent to Betina a year earlier. Still, like any other 254 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: immortal beloved candidacy, Bettina has detractors and possible holes. Some 255 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: musicologists and German speaking biographers claim the way Beethoven used 256 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: the second person due form in his letter to Bettina 257 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: seems more friendly than romantic, and that his love letters 258 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:41,959 Speaker 1: to Josephine utilized phrases that also implied an informal and 259 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: coy tone. Bettina's case also took hits Over the years since, 260 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 1: she allegedly had a habit of embellishing stories, including ones 261 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: involving Beethoven interacting with another famous friend, writer Johann Wolfgang. 262 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: Bettina also published letters that she initially claimed to have 263 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: been written by Beethoven that many historians subsequently discounted as forgeries, 264 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: which diminished her overall credibility in certain scholarly circles. The 265 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: reality is probably no piece of evidence will appear that 266 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: irrevocably proves the identity of Beethoven's immortal beloved, and maybe 267 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: that's part of the enduring fascination. The letter is a 268 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: romantic riddle that keeps everyone from professional musicologists to casual 269 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 1: fans of classical music guessing and debating, and in many ways, 270 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: the sheer divisiveness of various theories and staunch loyalty of 271 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: certain camps speaks to the letter's incredible lasting impact. In 272 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: addition to what it conveys to a possible recipient and 273 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: what it says about Beethoven, the letter also reveals a 274 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: great deal about us those who dig into its mystery. 275 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: Perhaps it's easy to emotionally invest in certain speculations and 276 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: candidates because it's easy to project personal feelings and experiences 277 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: onto Beethoven, his fraught personal life and the individual who 278 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: earned his undying love, whoever they were. For those who 279 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 1: have suffered through heartfelt longing and heartbreak, the way in 280 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: which Beethoven closes his Immortal Beloved Letter is often as 281 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: relatable as it is raw. Be calm. Only through quiet 282 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: contemplation of our existence can we reach our goal to 283 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: live together. Be patient, love me today, yesterday, what longing 284 00:23:55,000 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: with tears for you? You, you my love, my all. Farewell, Oh, 285 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: continue to love me. Never misjudge the most faithful heart 286 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:15,959 Speaker 1: of your beloved l Forever yours, forever mine, forever us. 287 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: The original pages of the Immortal Beloved Letter now reside 288 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 1: in the Berlin State Library, and its contents continue to 289 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: fuel research articles and ample scholarly squabbling. The letter even 290 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: inspired the nineteen ninety four movie Immortal Beloved that erroneously 291 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: depicted Beethoven's sister in La johannav On Beethoven as the 292 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: addressy speaking of more improbable candidates. We are now listening 293 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: to Beethoven's piano Sonata Number twenty eight in a Major 294 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: Opus one hundred and one, which he composed in eighteen 295 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: fifteen and eighteen sixteen, and dedicated to Countess Dorothea Rtmann, 296 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: another pianist. Around the time, he was reportedly looking back 297 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: on his time spent with his immortal beloved Fascinatingly, in 298 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: addition to leaving behind its own complex legacy, the Immortal 299 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: Beloved letter might have inspired other similar love letters. Composer 300 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,360 Speaker 1: Richard Wagner, known to be very familiar and very enamored 301 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 1: with Beethoven's life and work, became infatuated with a married 302 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: woman and wrote her an impassioned final letter that, according 303 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: to some biographers, has a striking resemblance to Beethoven's famous 304 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: enigmatic message. Wagner apparently wrote his letter on the same 305 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: date that Beethoven began drafting his July sixth. It contained 306 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: similar phrases, and it even seems to clearly reference specific 307 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: passages Beethoven's secretary wrote about Beethoven's love life. Then get this. 308 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: Wagner's tragic love letter seemingly inspired Austrian composer Albin Berg, 309 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: a big Wagner fan, to write a similar sounding letter 310 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: to the unattainable love of his life. It's worth noting 311 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: that it can be difficult to delineate between composers personal feelings, 312 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,719 Speaker 1: their public personas, and some of the creative trappings and 313 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: tropes of the burgeoning romantic movement in Western Europe. Specifically, 314 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: the notion of pining away for an unattainable love became 315 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: a fashionable theme and an undercurrent of many artists' work 316 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: across multiple mediums. Relatedly, there has been substantial debate over 317 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: historians and critics' shifting views on the relationship between a 318 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: composer's music and their biography. Scholarly opinions very massively on 319 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: how readily we should accept musical works as outpourings of 320 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 1: a composer's inner self. That said, this is a podcast, 321 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: it would seem a missed opportunity to feature some of 322 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: classical music's most timeless pieces without highlighting at least a 323 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: few more possible romantic connections using Beethoven's own auditory love language. 324 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 1: Searching for secret musically encoded messages can certainly go too far, 325 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 1: but there is also a humorous irony in the most 326 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: narrow quests to parse every last phrase of Beethoven's letter, 327 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: when he often called out his own limitations with language, 328 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: claiming quote music is more at my command than words, 329 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 1: So let's close by letting Beethoven's compositions do most of 330 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: the talking. Many musicologists have pointed out links between specific 331 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: Beethoven pieces and the Immortal Beloved Letter. The music theory 332 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: can get granular and in some cases even obsessive, but 333 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: three related works that frequently come up as having demonstrably 334 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: similar themes are Andante favori, written for Josephine in eighteen 335 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: oh three and eighteen oh four, which we heard in 336 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: part one song number six of the To the Distant 337 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:53,719 Speaker 1: Beloved song cycle Opus ninety eight, composed eighteen sixteen and 338 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: said to poetry by Alois Jechle. According to some musicologists, 339 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: this was Beethoven calling out to the same beloved whom 340 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: he told in his Immortal Beloved Letter quote, I have 341 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: resolved to stray about in the distance, and it contains 342 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: a very similar specific musical phrase to Andante favorie. And finally, 343 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: the third movement Andante molto contibile ed espressivo of piano 344 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: sonata at number thirty Opus one hundred and nine. If 345 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: you remember, this was the sonata we previously heard that 346 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: was dedicated to Antony's daughter Maximilian, but was Beethoven also 347 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: using a theme originally and maybe still meant for Josephine. 348 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: Let's hear each excerpt one more time and then you 349 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: can judge. Were these merely cases of a master leaning 350 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: on a favorite motif, an emotional composer leaning into the 351 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: artistic ideals of his era, a cheeky interloper hoping his 352 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: beloved would hear his musical messaging, a heartbroken romantic lamenting 353 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: a love that could never be? And or are these 354 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: just some pieces of immortally moving music. That's part two 355 00:30:54,800 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: of the perpetually gripping story of Beethoven's Immortal Beloved. But 356 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: stick around after a brief sponsor break to learn a 357 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: little bit more about Beethoven's other famous unsent letter. When 358 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: the Immortal Beloved letter was found at Beethoven's estate, so 359 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: was one other crucial unsent document. The Heiligenstadt Testament, was 360 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: a message Beethoven drafted to his brothers in eighteen o 361 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: two about his struggles with his hearing loss, depression, and 362 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: related grappling over whether to commit suicide or to continue 363 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: to live on for the sake of producing more music. 364 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: It is tough to fully fathom the pain and isolation. 365 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: Beethoven endured during vast periods of his life, and his 366 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: plight brings up many complicated questions regarding how his suffering 367 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: inhibited or fueled his genius. One thing is for sure, though, 368 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: considering his transcendent creative output for the last twenty five 369 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: years of his life, the music loving world can be 370 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: endlessly thankful that Beethoven continually chose his beloved art of composing. 371 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: This episode was written by Paul Jeffy. One final note 372 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: for this episode, our producers for the show found most 373 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: of the Beethoven music we got to listen to for 374 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: this special musical two parter from museopen dot org, a 375 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: free website and nonprofit that provides access to classical music 376 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: recordings and sheet music and other educational material. If you're 377 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: interested in hearing more Beethoven, absolutely go check the site out. 378 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: Noble Blood is a production of iHeart Radio and Grim 379 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Mankey. Noble Blood is hosted by 380 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: me Dana Schwartz, with additional writing and research by Hannah Johnston, Hannahswick, 381 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: Courtney Sender, Amy Hit and Julia Melaney. The show is 382 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: edited and produced by Jesse Funk with supervising producer rima 383 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: il KLi and executive producers Aaron Manke, Trevor Young, and 384 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 385 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.