1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,720
Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

2
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:07,200
Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

3
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,559
Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

4
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,840
Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

5
00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,720
Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I head

6
00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,120
Speaker 2: UPKKE Studios where we make true crime podcasts and documentaries

7
00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,840
Speaker 2: and I get to be here every night with Courtney

8
00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,400
Speaker 2: Armstrong and Body Movin High Ladies.

9
00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,640
Speaker 3: Hello, Hello, listen. It's been a pretty wild day.

10
00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,240
Speaker 2: And here's to say, we have a stacked night of headlines,

11
00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:45,800
Speaker 2: so that people very close to David the pop star

12
00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:50,240
Speaker 2: in the celestrevis case, which is such a tragic one,

13
00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,760
Speaker 2: they're speaking out and they have a lot to say

14
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,680
Speaker 2: on the topic, specifically about him. Also, yet another blocked

15
00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 2: in the Epstein Files release, I mean a jodgeing one,

16
00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,040
Speaker 2: I might add. So we're going to unpack a lot

17
00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,199
Speaker 2: of that, and remember did He is back in court

18
00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,560
Speaker 2: on Friday, so you know, for the rest of the

19
00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,160
Speaker 2: week we are going to be unpacking the Didty case

20
00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:14,000
Speaker 2: in its entirety. Really more on that tomorrow, but something

21
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,000
Speaker 2: we should all be looking out for closely. And also

22
00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,400
Speaker 2: later in the show, we're going to be unpacking the

23
00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:24,880
Speaker 2: biggest hoaxes. Remember Jesse Smollett, Oh yeah, of course, so

24
00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,040
Speaker 2: we're going to unpack that too. He has a new

25
00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,240
Speaker 2: documentary that dropped this summer and just sort of to

26
00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,680
Speaker 2: go through some of these poxes. We remember Sherry Peppini.

27
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,600
Speaker 2: Of course, that a big one, but there's many more.

28
00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:38,240
Speaker 2: So stay with us.

29
00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,559
Speaker 3: Scandalous ones, scans really scandalous. Yeah, we're going to try.

30
00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,240
Speaker 2: To dissect it exactly, very recent and listen, we want

31
00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,480
Speaker 2: to make sure that you're joining us. Please jump in,

32
00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,080
Speaker 2: join the conversation eight eight eight three one crime. Or

33
00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:53,960
Speaker 2: you can of course leave us a talk back by

34
00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,040
Speaker 2: downloading the iHeartRadio app. It's free and when you do so,

35
00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,080
Speaker 2: you push the button in the right hand course and boom,

36
00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,520
Speaker 2: you are leaving a talk back on the show. Or

37
00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,520
Speaker 2: you can always hit us up in our socials. So

38
00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,120
Speaker 2: let's get this night started and go to a talk back.

39
00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,720
Speaker 4: Right. This is so Tanna and I am from Alabama

40
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,000
Speaker 4: and I want to make a comment about the David

41
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,600
Speaker 4: Bert case. I am just concerned that we have a

42
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,680
Speaker 4: fourteen year old that has a boyfriend that nobody, no

43
00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,640
Speaker 4: one knows about. How does this happen? It can't happen

44
00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,600
Speaker 4: in my house? And they think that she started dating

45
00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,799
Speaker 4: him before she was fourteen. This is here, y'all. We've

46
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:33,919
Speaker 4: got to do better with our kids. We've got to

47
00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,440
Speaker 4: be better stewards of taking care of our kids. And

48
00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:39,480
Speaker 4: she just can't do what they want to do. They

49
00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,560
Speaker 4: have to do what we allow them to do. So

50
00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,040
Speaker 4: this is allowed, and somebody needs to look at her

51
00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,880
Speaker 4: parents being involved and hold them accountable because this should

52
00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:49,760
Speaker 4: never happen.

53
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:51,720
Speaker 3: Wow.

54
00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,040
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, that's a big opinion on a

55
00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:59,520
Speaker 5: big case. And you know, being stewards of children is

56
00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,240
Speaker 5: some I think all of us hold in high regard.

57
00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:04,240
Speaker 3: It's also hard, you know.

58
00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,119
Speaker 5: I think I'll need to reserve judgment myself until there's

59
00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,040
Speaker 5: so little information that's firmly out there.

60
00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,480
Speaker 3: So that's kind of where I stand.

61
00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,520
Speaker 2: And listen, this is not a stance, but I really

62
00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,680
Speaker 2: do understand what the caller is saying. I mean, listen,

63
00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,639
Speaker 2: at the time she was eleven years old allegedly when

64
00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,320
Speaker 2: this relationship may have started, right, So let's look at

65
00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:30,480
Speaker 2: that timeline. Eleven years old, we're talking six seventh grade. Again,

66
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,720
Speaker 2: this little girl goes missing. We know that to be true.

67
00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 2: Was she really missing? Was she really missing if in

68
00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,400
Speaker 2: fact mom or her brother were able to retrieve her

69
00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,160
Speaker 2: from this pop star's house at some point and bring

70
00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,000
Speaker 2: her back, only for her to go missing again. Again,

71
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,120
Speaker 2: this is not casting judgment on the family. I just

72
00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,920
Speaker 2: think it's important for us to talk about because these

73
00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,880
Speaker 2: things do happen. And remember, this is a pop star,

74
00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,520
Speaker 2: somebody who's very affluent and famous, and it's probably a

75
00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,760
Speaker 2: very big life styles, so you can see how someone

76
00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,800
Speaker 2: can get very easily sucked into it. Imagine you're a

77
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,680
Speaker 2: young girl and this is sort of your your way

78
00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,480
Speaker 2: to a big life. Maybe again, we don't know these details,

79
00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,880
Speaker 2: but and again to Courtney's point, we're not casting judgment.

80
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,560
Speaker 2: It's just important details for us to discuss so we

81
00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,520
Speaker 2: can look around at our own lives and make sure

82
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,440
Speaker 2: we're to our crawler's point that we're we're doing the

83
00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:24,839
Speaker 2: right thing and we're looking out.

84
00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,440
Speaker 3: For each other. And you know, listen, I kind of

85
00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,840
Speaker 3: agree with you with you, Stephanie, like, yeah, I kind

86
00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:31,920
Speaker 3: of feel the same way as the caller, but I

87
00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,520
Speaker 3: also understand that life is hard, life is so hard,

88
00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,640
Speaker 3: and you know, we don't know the circumstances of the parents.

89
00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,200
Speaker 3: You know, are they working many jobs? Are they this

90
00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,359
Speaker 3: a busy household? Like, you know, they can't have a

91
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,720
Speaker 3: twenty four hour seven eye on their children. I have

92
00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:54,279
Speaker 3: no idea about these parents, right, So it's hard, you know,

93
00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,680
Speaker 3: when we're reporting these stories to you know, cast these

94
00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,680
Speaker 3: aspersions on the the guardians of these children. Right, it's

95
00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,200
Speaker 3: hard to do that. But it's also hard not to

96
00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,240
Speaker 3: a little bit as well. Right, Like in our heads

97
00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,039
Speaker 3: we're like, whooh, I don't know, But at the same

98
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,320
Speaker 3: time we have to kind of reserve that judgment and

99
00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,680
Speaker 3: wait for the facts to come out totally fair.

100
00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,919
Speaker 2: And by the way our callers said everything, maybe that

101
00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,000
Speaker 2: I personally was too afraid to say to me friends.

102
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,040
Speaker 3: No, yeah, and thank you for play out.

103
00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,960
Speaker 2: Another another scenario could be that maybe you know, young

104
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,480
Speaker 2: Celeste eleven years old, twelve years old. Again, their brains

105
00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,279
Speaker 2: aren't fully developed. Maybe she's fallen in love and is

106
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,800
Speaker 2: you know, going to run away come hell or high

107
00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,719
Speaker 2: water to be with her, you know, her older boyfriend

108
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,479
Speaker 2: who maybe she's lying to about her age. You know,

109
00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,760
Speaker 2: maybe David the pop star was unaware of her actual age.

110
00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,280
Speaker 2: That's very possible, isn't it possible?

111
00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,560
Speaker 3: Well maybe, but somebody had to pick her up, right, right,

112
00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,960
Speaker 3: that's true. I can't drive. I'll be brief about this.

113
00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,839
Speaker 5: But the circumstances remind me a little bit of Stephanie

114
00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,560
Speaker 5: when we were working on the murdered missing in Montana,

115
00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,240
Speaker 5: and so it opened my eyes to different perspectives of

116
00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:08,920
Speaker 5: different communities and people and culture that sometimes children go

117
00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,640
Speaker 5: and it's it is normal in their lives and circumstances

118
00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,080
Speaker 5: for their child to go someplace, to announce his house

119
00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,160
Speaker 5: to a friend house for I'm not talking a day

120
00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,400
Speaker 5: at a time, I'm talking five months at a time.

121
00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:20,920
Speaker 3: And maybe the.

122
00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:25,840
Speaker 5: Communications not great. Anyway it was, It doesn't correlate totally.

123
00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,400
Speaker 5: It just it upped my empathy and understanding. Working on that,

124
00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,080
Speaker 5: it opened your perspective a little bit. Correct, Sure, it

125
00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,400
Speaker 5: opened your perspective a little bit. And to you know,

126
00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,840
Speaker 5: the parents' credit, they did report her missing.

127
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,960
Speaker 3: Exactly, so it is clear that at some point they

128
00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,839
Speaker 3: didn't know where she was, right, but it does it

129
00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,719
Speaker 3: has also become, you know, to me, crystal clear that

130
00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,559
Speaker 3: she did leave and come back and leave and come back.

131
00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,920
Speaker 3: So I mean, maybe they thought she was going to

132
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:53,680
Speaker 3: come back. I don't know.

133
00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,920
Speaker 2: And when I wasn't she in school? Is it fact

134
00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,120
Speaker 2: that she was not in school at that age?

135
00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:01,920
Speaker 3: Think about that.

136
00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,279
Speaker 2: That's like also, I don't know if that's illegal, but

137
00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,520
Speaker 2: technically it should be. I mean, that's elementary school. In

138
00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,400
Speaker 2: middle school, you don't get to just drop out to Again,

139
00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,240
Speaker 2: our caller's point, you know, the kid doesn't call the

140
00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:18,040
Speaker 2: shots in that department. However, everybody can be tricky, and

141
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,840
Speaker 2: you know, many lives have many different endings, and this

142
00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,480
Speaker 2: one is incredibly tragic. So we're really unpacking it less

143
00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,440
Speaker 2: of a place from judgment. It's really to better understand

144
00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:32,120
Speaker 2: it so that there can be some justice for Celeste,

145
00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,560
Speaker 2: because it does not appear that it's happening anytime soon.

146
00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,480
Speaker 3: Right, well, let's get into it a little bit with David. Right, So,

147
00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,320
Speaker 3: just to bring everybody back up to speed on what

148
00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,560
Speaker 3: we're talking about. We're talking about Celestrievas Hernandez. She was

149
00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,960
Speaker 3: the fourteen year old little girl, and on September eighth,

150
00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,440
Speaker 3: so what twenty three days ago, her body was discovered

151
00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,720
Speaker 3: in David's tesla right in the trunk of this or Fronk,

152
00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,520
Speaker 3: I should say of this Tesla and he is a

153
00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,200
Speaker 3: kind of you know, emerging artist. He's very popular on

154
00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,280
Speaker 3: social media platforms. He streams on Twitch, he's very popular

155
00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:11,000
Speaker 3: on TikTok. He's on tour. He's doing a world tour, right,

156
00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,360
Speaker 3: and it is huge by the way. You know how

157
00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,640
Speaker 3: hard it is to get a world tour. I mean,

158
00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,360
Speaker 3: you have dates in Europe and Australia coming up, and

159
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,080
Speaker 3: he's on a world tour. And while he's on this

160
00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,960
Speaker 3: world tour, in the middle of it, this little girl

161
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,840
Speaker 3: is found in his trunk and she had been there

162
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,439
Speaker 3: for many, many weeks. We don't know how long I'm estimating,

163
00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,600
Speaker 3: and you know, listen, I don't know anything, but I'm

164
00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,679
Speaker 3: estimating like end of July, mid July. She's been there

165
00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:40,559
Speaker 3: a hot minute. She's been in there for a while

166
00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,000
Speaker 3: in this trunk. No arrests have been made, and there's

167
00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,199
Speaker 3: you know, we don't even know if this is a homicideant, right,

168
00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,480
Speaker 3: We just don't know. The cops are being like really

169
00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,920
Speaker 3: tight lipped. Well over the course of the last twenty

170
00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,400
Speaker 3: three days, many people have started coming forward and talking

171
00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,680
Speaker 3: because listen, we're not getting anything from the cups. Right,

172
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,679
Speaker 3: we're not getting anything because this is an active investigation.

173
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,319
Speaker 3: They don't want to play their hand. So now people

174
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,199
Speaker 3: are starting to get loose lips and yeah, starting to

175
00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,600
Speaker 3: talk a little bit. So we've heard from Celeste. You know,

176
00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:15,559
Speaker 3: she had this little boyfriend when she was in junior

177
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,600
Speaker 3: high and he was appropriately aged. He was like a

178
00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,440
Speaker 3: year older than her, and you know their little high school,

179
00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,320
Speaker 3: little junior high, you know, little sweethearts. Right. Well, he's

180
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,600
Speaker 3: come forward and in this video with his mom sitting

181
00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,360
Speaker 3: right next to him, he's, you know, telling the story.

182
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,600
Speaker 3: We get to know Celeste a little bit more, which

183
00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,560
Speaker 3: is important, and it's not only important because she's our victim,

184
00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,840
Speaker 3: but victimology is so important when you're talking about cases, right,

185
00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,199
Speaker 3: so true to know about these victims and little Celeste.

186
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,320
Speaker 3: He described his name as Damien, and he told he

187
00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,760
Speaker 3: had an interview with TMZ and he told TMZ she

188
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,120
Speaker 3: often spoke about really disliking her home life. But you

189
00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,920
Speaker 3: know what we all did, didn't We all hate our

190
00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,800
Speaker 3: home life. It's prob, right, Yeah, it's a riot passage, right. So,

191
00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:08,280
Speaker 3: but Damien described her as kind and she was very serious,

192
00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,520
Speaker 3: so it seems like she was kind of mature like

193
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,439
Speaker 3: in her in her ways. He described her as kind

194
00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,679
Speaker 3: and serious when they met, and said she never mentioned

195
00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:23,560
Speaker 3: any abuse, only tense family environment. Okay, so but again,

196
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,080
Speaker 3: I'm putting myself back at that age, and oh my god,

197
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,240
Speaker 3: my mom and I would have knocked down drag out fights, right,

198
00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,360
Speaker 3: so her hairbrush and my cattle, stupid thing. But it

199
00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,360
Speaker 3: was like the end of the world from me, of course.

200
00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,880
Speaker 3: Oh my life is over. Oh my god. You know

201
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,640
Speaker 3: your neighbors. Now there has been a video that's come forward,

202
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,400
Speaker 3: and it's a nest camera video and it was taken

203
00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:50,559
Speaker 3: in September, tragically, September eighth of twenty twenty four, exactly

204
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,439
Speaker 3: a year before she was found, which is crazy to me.

205
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,960
Speaker 3: That's the date on it. And this neighbor shows celested

206
00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,400
Speaker 3: in a shouting match outside her parents. It's home again,

207
00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,440
Speaker 3: you guys. She was reported missing in April of twenty

208
00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,760
Speaker 3: twenty four, and this video is September of twenty twenty four,

209
00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,679
Speaker 3: and it's at her parents' house. So it's clear to

210
00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,200
Speaker 3: me she had come back and left again. That's right,

211
00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:17,839
Speaker 3: isn't that? You know? I mean, it's kind of mind

212
00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,679
Speaker 3: blowing to me. So you know, she's in a shouting

213
00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,280
Speaker 3: match with her neighbors. Maybe they were being too loud.

214
00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,640
Speaker 3: I'm not entirely too sure. The neighbors recognized her from

215
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,000
Speaker 3: the missing the missing person's posters and recalled her family

216
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,080
Speaker 3: actively distributed them, you know, during the summer, so she

217
00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,959
Speaker 3: went to missing in April. The family's panicking, they're handing

218
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,480
Speaker 3: out posters. She comes home at some point in September

219
00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,560
Speaker 3: and has a shouting match and then disappears again.

220
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,560
Speaker 5: Wow, right, this case, I mean, as it goes on

221
00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,040
Speaker 5: and more people give their perspectives, it just gets more complicated.

222
00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,520
Speaker 5: You're listening to true crime tonight, we want to hear

223
00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,320
Speaker 5: from you. We're talking about the latest in sless Reebus's death.

224
00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,000
Speaker 5: She's the fourteen year old. She was found in September

225
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,400
Speaker 5: in the trunk of singer David's car. Was there any

226
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,400
Speaker 5: other information that the neighbors.

227
00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,120
Speaker 3: Gave, you know, they just said the video. Well, they

228
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,280
Speaker 3: released the video, and so you can go and watch

229
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,280
Speaker 3: the video yourself if you'd like. But the video captures

230
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:19,520
Speaker 3: Celeste shouting accusations and using like swear words. Who doesn't Okay,

231
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,600
Speaker 3: I'm not judging her, possibly including a racial slurn not

232
00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,120
Speaker 3: one hundred percent sure during this confrontation, but I kind

233
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,360
Speaker 3: of wanted to talk very quickly about Celeste. How what

234
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:34,200
Speaker 3: we learned very quickly about her not being pregnant, correct

235
00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,360
Speaker 3: learned yesterday. The death certificate has been released. The cause

236
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,120
Speaker 3: in the manner are still deferred. We still don't know.

237
00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,920
Speaker 3: But what they did tell us is that Celeste has

238
00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,600
Speaker 3: not been pregnant or was not pregnant when she was found,

239
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,360
Speaker 3: nor had she been pregnant in the past year. And

240
00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,280
Speaker 3: that's important, Okay, So really quickly, that tells us a

241
00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,360
Speaker 3: couple things. It tells us that her body is in

242
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,200
Speaker 3: a condition well enough that they were able to do

243
00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,720
Speaker 3: this hormone test, right, because they test for those hormones

244
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,520
Speaker 3: to determine if she had been pregnant, and if her

245
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,080
Speaker 3: body is in a good enough state to do that

246
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,200
Speaker 3: hormone test. I think toxology is going to be even

247
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,640
Speaker 3: more important, right, and I think it's going to be

248
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,880
Speaker 3: an accurate result, right because her body isn't in the

249
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,520
Speaker 3: state in which tests can't be done.

250
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,040
Speaker 2: But even those tacts and totally you have explained that

251
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,079
Speaker 2: all so well, you just really laid that cass out

252
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:30,480
Speaker 2: so well.

253
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,800
Speaker 3: Okay, good. Sometimes I get in my head and I

254
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:34,000
Speaker 3: know if I'm saying things right.

255
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:35,600
Speaker 2: Edge you might see And no, you did such a

256
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,600
Speaker 2: great breakdown of it. My only question about the toxicology report.

257
00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,040
Speaker 2: And I know we've talked about this with Joseph Scott Morgan,

258
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:42,920
Speaker 2: and yes, toxicology reports.

259
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,280
Speaker 3: To take a minute, let's just go there.

260
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:49,000
Speaker 2: Even if they find drugs, or they could find arsenic,

261
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,679
Speaker 2: they could find ketamine, they can find a million things.

262
00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:51,760
Speaker 3: Right that.

263
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,480
Speaker 2: Maybe it was a death by drugs. How is that

264
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,440
Speaker 2: still not a homicide? She was found in a tuck.

265
00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,280
Speaker 3: Right, Well, we don't know. Ye, we just don't know yet.

266
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:02,840
Speaker 3: We're not to wait let that play out. But I

267
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:04,599
Speaker 3: also really quickly, I only have them like I'm in

268
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,800
Speaker 3: that left. But the cops went to her house eleven

269
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:13,200
Speaker 3: times in one year, yes, three times in one day,

270
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,960
Speaker 3: So there was obviously some family tension happening, right, A

271
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,800
Speaker 3: lot of it is obviously, And again I just want

272
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,320
Speaker 3: to I just want to make sure that I'm saying

273
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,240
Speaker 3: this right. We're not judging. Okay, we don't know who

274
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,240
Speaker 3: called the cops. We don't know you know why they

275
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,600
Speaker 3: you know specifically why they were called. But they were

276
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:34,760
Speaker 3: called eleven times in one year between February twenty twenty

277
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:38,600
Speaker 3: four in April of twenty twenty five, per new police reports,

278
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,960
Speaker 3: and three times in one day in March, a month

279
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,240
Speaker 3: before she went missing. What Yeah, that there was video

280
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,440
Speaker 3: of her actually kind of literally physically running away.

281
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:50,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

282
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,400
Speaker 3: Did you guys see that I did? That was that day?

283
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,040
Speaker 3: That was that day? Mark, listen, stick with us.

284
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,960
Speaker 5: We have more un celest revus and what the singer

285
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,680
Speaker 5: David's manager is now saying about the victim.

286
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,040
Speaker 3: Plus, we are laying out.

287
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,960
Speaker 5: Some unbelievable hoaxes that are making headlines right now. We

288
00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,600
Speaker 5: got a stage kidnapping, we have people stabbing and shooting themselves.

289
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:13,600
Speaker 3: Keep it here, True Crime Tonight.

290
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,800
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

291
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,440
Speaker 2: true crime all the time of Stephanie Leidecker here with

292
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,400
Speaker 2: Body Move In and Courtney Armstrong. The studio is out

293
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,200
Speaker 2: of its mind right now. Tah was clapping and dancing

294
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,800
Speaker 2: so much during the break and we were like, Toma,

295
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,200
Speaker 2: We're gonna hear you on air with the clapping.

296
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:47,440
Speaker 3: Ah, that sounds wonderful.

297
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,040
Speaker 2: That was so We hope everybody listening during the breaks

298
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,160
Speaker 2: has a little wiggle has a little dance in them,

299
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,040
Speaker 2: just to shake off any nervous energy from the day.

300
00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 2: The news is so intense. The topics that we're unpacking

301
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,160
Speaker 2: also super intense. So go ahead, give yourself a little clap.

302
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,240
Speaker 2: And now I suddenly now it's AHAs missing. So he's

303
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:09,640
Speaker 2: just in his way right out of here.

304
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,800
Speaker 3: Just embarrassment. Yeah, that was awesome. So listen, if you're

305
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:16,720
Speaker 3: just joining us, We're so happy that you're here.

306
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,040
Speaker 2: Welcome to the show. Join us eight at eight three

307
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,080
Speaker 2: one crime. We're talking about this, you know, real tragic

308
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,400
Speaker 2: case with Celeste Reevas. Her body was found in a

309
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,480
Speaker 2: vehicle in the Hollywood Hills, a tesla, and that tesla

310
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,120
Speaker 2: belonged to David the pop star, who at the time

311
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,680
Speaker 2: of her body being discovered was on tour, a world tour,

312
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,160
Speaker 2: I might add, and a tour has since been canceled.

313
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,760
Speaker 2: He is not a suspect. He has not been named

314
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,320
Speaker 2: as a person of interest. It's worth noting there's a

315
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,320
Speaker 2: little bit of chatter about maybe Celeste and how old

316
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,920
Speaker 2: she was when she left home, originally possibly around eleven

317
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,640
Speaker 2: years old, and maybe back and forth until her untimely

318
00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,000
Speaker 2: hideous death at age fifteen, So there's a lot to

319
00:16:59,120 --> 00:16:59,880
Speaker 2: unpack here.

320
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,720
Speaker 3: Let's go to a talkback right now.

321
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,560
Speaker 6: Hey, True Graham Tonight's team. I don't know if you

322
00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:09,480
Speaker 6: guys saw that article today about police swarming David's parents'

323
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,119
Speaker 6: house in Texas, but it almost reminds me of the

324
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:17,280
Speaker 6: Coburger case, whose parents were also put under the spotlight,

325
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,520
Speaker 6: even though families you know, aren't suspects, but the media

326
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,000
Speaker 6: makes it look that way. Do you guys think it's

327
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,760
Speaker 6: fair for the media to be involving families like this

328
00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:27,920
Speaker 6: or should they stick to only the suspects?

329
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,640
Speaker 3: In fact? I mean I think great talk back.

330
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,560
Speaker 2: Also, by the way, there's breaking news right now in

331
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,840
Speaker 2: the Brian Coburger case and some new developments or at

332
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,240
Speaker 2: least a ruling by the judge, and we'll get to

333
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,479
Speaker 2: that later in the show as well. We'll be monitoring it.

334
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:44,879
Speaker 2: I don't know, what do you think, Courtney, what do

335
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:45,200
Speaker 2: you think?

336
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,199
Speaker 5: Well, there has been a really upsetting swatting incident that

337
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,840
Speaker 5: did occur with the parents, and I watched the video.

338
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:58,720
Speaker 5: I believe you guys did so dangerous. So police bodycam

339
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:02,200
Speaker 5: footage was just released and you can see officers they

340
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:08,200
Speaker 5: are literally swarming David's family childhood home in Texas, and

341
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:12,400
Speaker 5: it was they were responding to a false report of gunfire.

342
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,480
Speaker 5: Somebody called nine one one. They said there were gunshots,

343
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 5: they said there was screaming. They said there's a potential

344
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:24,040
Speaker 5: death at the home in Hempstead, Texas. And you see

345
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,480
Speaker 5: David's parents they come out in really the clothes you

346
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,720
Speaker 5: wear in your house. We all were in your house clothes.

347
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,679
Speaker 5: They were so confused, and the officers are there saying,

348
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:39,760
Speaker 5: is there you know there's a murder here, Like, what

349
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,760
Speaker 5: in the world are you talking about? And they said,

350
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,360
Speaker 5: you know, please, we have two children upstairs. David indeed

351
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,920
Speaker 5: does have a brother and a sister. And you see

352
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,680
Speaker 5: just David's father saying someone's messing with us. His mother

353
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,520
Speaker 5: is very concerned that someone may be on their property.

354
00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 5: Because I don't know if you noticed this in the video,

355
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 5: but what I understood was when the person called nine

356
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,399
Speaker 5: one one, even though it was from an out of

357
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,600
Speaker 5: state area code, that it pinged to that property.

358
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,760
Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, that's I didn't at its core the

359
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,520
Speaker 2: swatting thing, right, It was a it can be called

360
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 2: in from anywhere.

361
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,000
Speaker 5: Right, But I feel like you have to but that

362
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,000
Speaker 5: at GPS located when they called nine one one to that.

363
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,359
Speaker 3: Place, I'll have to look at that. I don't I

364
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 3: don't know. That's interesting. I didn't hear that.

365
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, well we should definitely look further into that

366
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 5: to see sure. But this person it was it was

367
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,360
Speaker 5: just a swatting hoax, not just I mean it takes

368
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,719
Speaker 5: away police resources from anything substantive that is going on.

369
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 3: I mean, this is so expensive to rally all those

370
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,800
Speaker 3: cops and equipment and listen when somebody's getting swatted. This

371
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,359
Speaker 3: is so dangerous. You guys, please do not do this

372
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,520
Speaker 3: kind of thing. You could get somebody literally killed, or

373
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,159
Speaker 3: yourself for that matter. Yeah, I mean very serious, Please

374
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:03,040
Speaker 3: don't do this stuff.

375
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 2: And like I said, David's family has not been through enough.

376
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,879
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, this guy is not a suspect. This

377
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,160
Speaker 2: is an unfortunate set of circumstances. I'm going to choose

378
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 2: to believe that he is innocent until proven guilty. Certainly

379
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 2: his parents and his siblings had nothing to do with this.

380
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:21,160
Speaker 3: So there they are.

381
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,639
Speaker 2: They're in this this storm of hell because all of

382
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 2: these accusations are being thrown around left and right about

383
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,639
Speaker 2: their son, their son, who was on the verge of

384
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 2: making a very big deal of himself as well. So

385
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 2: here they are, you're already on edge. I'm sure they're

386
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 2: getting hit up by journalists and reporters, et cetera. They're

387
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 2: just trying to look out for their son or their brother,

388
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 2: and then a swat team shows up and there's like

389
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,159
Speaker 2: another murder. Like you can't handle that much. Your body

390
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 2: can't even handle that much. I really feel for them,

391
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 2: and we should just explain what swatting is. Swatting is

392
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 2: like what used to be a ring and run or

393
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 2: you know, you prank dial people by the way, even

394
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,159
Speaker 2: ringing and running, which I did all the time, I

395
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 2: was always left there by my brothers ding dong ditch.

396
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 2: My brothers were ding dong and then I'd be left there.

397
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,200
Speaker 2: In today's day, that is very dangerous. People get shot,

398
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:16,719
Speaker 2: and that happened actually very recently.

399
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:17,640
Speaker 3: It's actually happened.

400
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, So imagine the swatting is like a now a

401
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,679
Speaker 2: much more advanced version of that where nine to one

402
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 2: one is being called because there's some sort of a

403
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,879
Speaker 2: shootout or a murder or someone's on the property and

404
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 2: they deploy all of their resources to that house.

405
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 3: Guns drawn to save the day, thank goodness. And it's fake.

406
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 3: It's a hoax. You know what dangerous that is.

407
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 2: What if they're just like shooting at the person who's

408
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,880
Speaker 2: like walking nearby, you know, delivering the mail, and they're like, oh,

409
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 2: that must be the suspect right on this fake you know,

410
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 2: swatting call. I feel for the parents. It's got to

411
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 2: be a real storm therein.

412
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,439
Speaker 5: Absolutely And yeah, they're just you know, hearing them speak

413
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 5: and seeing mom look around and wondering, is indeed someone

414
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 5: on the property really a heartbreak? In other news, as

415
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 5: you said, Stephanie, David is not a suspect, and indeed

416
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,920
Speaker 5: this is not right now deemed a homicide case. However,

417
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,360
Speaker 5: David has obtained counsel, and the council's pretty interesting.

418
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,919
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, okay, okay, Blair Burke.

419
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 5: So they're nationally recognized their criminal defense attorney. And really,

420
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 5: when we were talking off the air, Stephanie, you had said,

421
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 5: really kind of crisis management.

422
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 3: She specializes.

423
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 5: We have really high profile clients, criminal regulatory, complex, media scrutiny,

424
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:44,959
Speaker 5: which certainly falls under and her roster includes people like

425
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 5: Leonardo DiCaprio, like Mel Gibson, Dave Chappelle, Cameron Diaz, Kanye West,

426
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 5: Lindsay Lohan, and Britney Spears.

427
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 3: So that's the council, you know, if that's interesting. And

428
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting for maybe not vious reasons. And

429
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 3: I'm obviously you know, listen, she doesn't really do murder cases, right,

430
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,439
Speaker 3: she does, I mean she has in the past, but

431
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 3: that's not really her forte. Her forte is obviously she's

432
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 3: a criminal defense attorney, but her forte is crisis management.

433
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 7: Right.

434
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 3: And don't you guys think that if David was feeling

435
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 3: like he was a prime suspect in this in this case,

436
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 3: in this this homicidal case, that he would have gotten

437
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 3: a lawyer that specializes in homicide prosecutor.

438
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 2: Or Mark Garrigos or somebody who whoever was you know,

439
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 2: the defense attorney looking back on some of the most

440
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,239
Speaker 2: infamous murder cases ever a time where they do in

441
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 2: fact get off, you know.

442
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 3: In Los Angeles County, I mean, like some of the

443
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 3: best lawyers we've seen ever. Right, and he hires her, Right.

444
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 3: I just think it's very interesting the choice here.

445
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 5: I think you're right, and you make a really good point,

446
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 5: a very very good point. But she also might be

447
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 5: even the preliminary attorney. There is no again, not even charges,

448
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 5: much less a much less a court case. But Blair

449
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 5: Birk she's often brought in really early in the stages

450
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 5: of legal trouble. She uses she has a lot of influence,

451
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 5: she has a lot of expertise, and she's known for

452
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 5: really resolving matters quietly or pre empting criminal charges altogether.

453
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 3: So that's what she's known for. She does this behind

454
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 3: the scenes. She very rarely makes public statements, but is

455
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 3: aggressive and discreet. So at this point, what you're saying

456
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 3: is it could be it could be just the first

457
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 3: lawyer he correct, right, like the first Yeah, you might

458
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 3: be right, I know, just just jumping in too.

459
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 2: Sorry to cut you off, bodyguhead please go, I was

460
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 2: just going to say no, like or they have to

461
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 2: handle it behind the scenes, you know. Maybe they're aware

462
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 2: that there are charges coming potentially, and she is she's

463
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 2: the woman and she's the person who puts up all

464
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 2: of these deals without anybody knowing. So if charges are

465
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 2: to come, maybe that's something that they're trying to squash

466
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 2: or handle differently, or get a plea arrangement before it

467
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 2: gets too much hotter.

468
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 3: That's what I think. I'd like to know what you

469
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 3: guys think. Do you guys think out there that this

470
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 3: tells us something about the investigation? Give us a call.

471
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 3: Eighty eight thirty one crime. This is true crime tonight.

472
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 3: We're right in the middle of talking about the David

473
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 3: and Celeste b Reavis Hernandez case. I'm body moving and

474
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 3: I'm here with Courtney and Stephanie. I just feel I

475
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,719
Speaker 3: feel it tells us a little something. I feel it

476
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 3: tells us that he knows he didn't do anything. Listen,

477
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 3: I'm just talking. I'm spitballing here. He knows he didn't

478
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 3: do anything. And at that age, you know, he's a

479
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 3: young guy. They can't throw me in jail for anything

480
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 3: I didn't do. You know, you're naive to the world,

481
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 3: right And he's not feeling the pressure from LAPD. That

482
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 3: doesn't mean they're not looking at him. It just means

483
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 3: they're not facing they're not like, you know, outwardly telling him, hey, listen,

484
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 3: and you're a suspect, no, no, whatever, because didn't he

485
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 3: go back to Texas already? Like, listen, this is a

486
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 3: real You can't read the state when you're a suspect

487
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 3: in our merger case, Like, do you know what I mean? Like, yeah,

488
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 3: I don't think he's I just feel it tells us something,

489
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 3: maybe not, And maybe I'm being like crazy, but I

490
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 3: just feel it tells us something, maybe nothing. I don't know.

491
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean again, her reputation is too often she

492
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 5: prevents charges. And she's done this with sexual misconduct allegations,

493
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,239
Speaker 5: domestic abuse, duy, which is different than a fourteen year

494
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 5: old girl of course found in a car registered to.

495
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 8: You, but now sexual misconduct, well exactly. And she's a

496
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 8: little girl. And Blair does negotiations. She negotiates with prosecutors

497
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 8: behind the scenes, and is really key at identifying procedural

498
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,719
Speaker 8: issues really early in investigation. So then I think this

499
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 8: is a really smart choice based on her expert.

500
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 3: What would you guys be doing, Like, it's just a

501
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 3: double edged sword.

502
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: If you get a lawyer, suddenly you look guilty, and

503
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: if you don't have a lawyer, you suddenly say something

504
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 2: wrong procedurally and you're locked up and it's being held

505
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 2: against you. Rule number one in fight club is saying

506
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 2: nothing about fight club, right, So.

507
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 3: That would be me. I would get a lawyer immediately,

508
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 3: and even if I'm innocent. I'm getting immediately. I have

509
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 3: seen way too many interrogation videos like I have seen

510
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 3: way too many where they twist your words and make

511
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 3: you they hold you there for eight hours and make

512
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 3: you crazy and you start saying crazy stuff just to

513
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 3: get out of that room. Right. No, I'm getting a

514
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 3: lawyer immediately. I'm not saying a word and they're gonna

515
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 3: let me go immediately. I'm not talking to them.

516
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that body And actually

517
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 9: are you After Amandon Knox was on our show, I'm like,

518
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 9: all right, always lawyer, I always have someone with you

519
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 9: because you don't know what you're thinking of what to say.

520
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 9: But I just want to go back to the whole

521
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 9: David thing. But whether or not he was involved with,

522
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 9: you know, the murder or the death of Celeste, I

523
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 9: still would like to know what the nature of their

524
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 9: relationship was, because that's another issue that I have a

525
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 9: problem with as well. So we might figure out one thing,

526
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,719
Speaker 9: but I want to know why was this man with

527
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 9: this fourteen year.

528
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 3: Old Well, Courtney just read the expertise of this lawyer

529
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 3: and the first thing listed sexual misconduct, and it's playing

530
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 3: Devil's here.

531
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 2: I don't know, just to throw another opinion in there,

532
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 2: not necessarily even mine. I don't know what mine is,

533
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: so I'm not being cagey. But on the other side

534
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 2: of that, what if this young beautiful girl is a

535
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 2: runaway from home and is, you know, not fitting into

536
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 2: the home life whatever it is. You know, we've all

537
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 2: had teen angst, and you know this is just to

538
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: the omth degree. She bounces she wants to be with

539
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: David because she feels safe there, and he feels bad.

540
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: He doesn't want to send her back, and she's either

541
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 2: telling him that she's older than she is or he's

542
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 2: aware of her age but being protective of her because

543
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: he doesn't want to send her back to the said

544
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 2: situation that she's obviously running from, and maybe he was

545
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 2: looking after her kind of like a little pop star

546
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 2: babysitter up sorts.

547
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 3: I don't know, how does that land. It seems a

548
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 3: little unlikely, soft landing.

549
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 2: It was a soft launch, soft lunch, Yes, soft launch

550
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 2: on a theory, it.

551
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 5: Was in every literally everything is possible right now because

552
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 5: the facts aren't released, so that's true.

553
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: I find it very unusual that there is not somebody

554
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: on the hook right now.

555
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 3: Twenty two to twenty three days later. I mean, I

556
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 3: really do.

557
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 2: And if he was a no brainer suspect, I think

558
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 2: we would be seeing him everywhere. And if he's not

559
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: talk about a tragedy, his career is now going to

560
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 2: be down the drain. Not to mention the legal fees.

561
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 2: I don't think that Blair Burke is a freebie. I

562
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: don't think she's doing this row bono. This is likely

563
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 2: one of the most expensive attorneys period the end, hard stop,

564
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: that is it. So you know, financially speaking, you know

565
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,959
Speaker 2: he is the target, and I guess we're just going

566
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: to have to kind of watch this play out.

567
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, hopefully we'll get talks back real soon.

568
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: So we've been discussing Epstein a lot, obviously, but once

569
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 2: again there is a block in these Epstein files and

570
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: we're going to unpack that now. But also later in

571
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 2: the show there's breaking news and new developments in the

572
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 2: Brian Coburger case.

573
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,479
Speaker 3: I don't even really want to say that.

574
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 2: It's regarding some of these crime scene photos that have

575
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: been released to the public, and also later in the

576
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: show some some big poxes that are in the headlines

577
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: real time also very important to discuss technically, swatting like

578
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 2: we just were talking about in the last segment, would

579
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 2: fall unto the category of a hoax.

580
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 3: Right, very dangerous one. Yes, yeah, my gay, Yeah for sure.

581
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 3: So Epstein.

582
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 2: I mean, this never seems to go away, and I

583
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 2: think it's really important that we're shouting it from the

584
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: rooftop a little bit. So you know, if you go

585
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 2: back in time, you'll remember there has been this big

586
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 2: call for the Epstein files to be released, and you know,

587
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: where are the files? Where are the files? Where are

588
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: the files? Well, the House Committee really was asking for

589
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 2: signatures a total of two hundred and eighteen to be

590
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 2: able to really force the hand of the government to

591
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 2: release all files related to the case.

592
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 3: And that's been a slow burn.

593
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: And we've heard, oh, we have one hundred, we have

594
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 2: one hundred and ten, we have one hundred and twelve.

595
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 2: Suddenly they're at they're almost at two hundred and eighteen.

596
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: There is one, you know, very significant congresswoman who's from

597
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 2: the Arizona seventh District and she was meant to be

598
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 2: sworn in and they are blocking her from being sworn

599
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 2: in allegedly maybe because of maybe the government is now

600
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 2: shut down, maybe this will delay it even further. But

601
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 2: she is allegedly the two hundred and eighteenth signature that

602
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 2: would actually have these files released at Alita Griholda. I

603
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 2: think I'm saying that right at Alita Goriholva. Forgive me

604
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: if I'm not. And now it's just getting delayed yet again.

605
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 2: So imagine there's two hundred and eighteen signatures, not just

606
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 2: of Democrats, not just of Republicans. This is a mixed

607
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 2: back yeah, that are simply saying, hey, no judgment, we

608
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 2: just want to see the files. Everybody has said, we

609
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 2: just want to see them, We just want to see them. Promises, promises, promises,

610
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: And everybody who has said we're going to see them

611
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 2: has like since changed their vote, which I think has

612
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 2: made it.

613
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 3: Even scarier in our way.

614
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 2: You know, well no meaning like Pam Bondi, people that

615
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: were oh or even you know, this was a big conversation,

616
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 2: even with you know, Cash Patal Like everybody was like, oh,

617
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 2: we're going to share it tomorrow, We're going to share

618
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 2: it very soon, and no sharing has happened.

619
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 3: So Epstein's.

620
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 2: Epstein's estate has now released many files, some of them

621
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: have you know, fly logs, and there's some new information

622
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 2: regarding that with some very high profile names, including Bill Gates,

623
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: and we'll get to that as well, But that's not

624
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 2: the new information. We want to know what the royal

625
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: nig names are, Like, what is the scary stuff that

626
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 2: is in these files that is causing there to be

627
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: so much of a cover up. And I have a

628
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: hard time believing that it's not just that it's not

629
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 2: just a cover up. In fact, we have a talkback

630
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: right now, he king.

631
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 10: This is davy Ra in Tampa, not from Tampa. I've

632
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 10: seen the last night's episode and you're talking about Bill

633
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 10: Gates being tied to Epstein. And if I recall that divorce,

634
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 10: the Gates divorced, there was reasons mo in the left

635
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 10: was due to connections to the Epstein but I can't

636
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 10: find those sources. Can you look into that?

637
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 3: Oh yes, it's funny.

638
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: You should mention that everyone heads, Yeah, she's in our head,

639
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 2: just to kind of set the stage on the Bill

640
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: Gates of it all.

641
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 3: And she's correct.

642
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 2: This has been reported about wildly including what is this,

643
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 2: The Wall Street Sure, Wall.

644
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 3: Street Journal, The Garbean.

645
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 2: Correct so, and Melinda Gates, bill Gates's ex wife of

646
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 2: many many years. I might add She has said this

647
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 2: very loud and very publicly, that the reason for their

648
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 2: divorce was that she was uncomfortable with the relationship between

649
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: Bill Gates and Jeffrey Epstein.

650
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 3: So this is the broad strokes of it.

651
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 2: Bill Gates met Jeffrey Epstein, you know, many many times

652
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 2: between twenty eleven and twenty and seventeen. Now, remember, despite

653
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 2: the fact that Epstein's status as a convicted criminal and

654
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: pedophile happened in around two thousand and seven, two thousand

655
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 2: and eight, so even past his guilt and conviction the

656
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 2: first time back in Florida, that relationship continued. He has

657
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 2: since come out Bill Gates saying it was very foolish

658
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 2: and he regretted it. And the idea in his mind

659
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 2: is that he was hoping that Epstein would help Gates

660
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: in some full philanthropic work, some very important, very expensive,

661
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 2: multi billion dollar charitable time with JP Morgan Chase. Now

662
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 2: again this is the JP Morgan Chase part that's also

663
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 2: been brought into the conversation, which is scary stuff. Think

664
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 2: about this multi billion dollar So now let's talk, honey pot,

665
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 2: I have a new theory on this work with me here.

666
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 2: I'm just going to workshop at here real time, and honest,

667
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 2: this is what I talk about during the day. So

668
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,240
Speaker 2: in my head, let's just assume that all the players

669
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 2: that are being mentioned, because it's basically every big brain

670
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 2: in the world, right, so so many we heard now

671
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: Elon Musk is being brought into this Bill Gates, we heard,

672
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 2: you know, former presidents, current all the people. Is it

673
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: possible that Epstein, who was maybe working as a double

674
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 2: edged spy or something like we see in the movies,

675
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 2: was having these young girls, many of whom were of

676
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 2: course underage, many were not, doesn't make a difference. They

677
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 2: were stale being trafficked, has them on the island, and

678
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 2: then on his little precious island, he has like an

679
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 2: invite out to the biggest brains in the world. Hey,

680
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 2: we're gonna have a little smart person's retreat. We're going

681
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 2: to learn more about AI, We're gonna have a big

682
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 2: smart person conversation about the world. We're going to create

683
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 2: you know, new big ideas together. I'm gonna have these

684
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: little forums on my little island, and I'm going to

685
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 2: bring some of these most notable names to it under

686
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 2: the guise of it being like a think tank. So

687
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 2: maybe the men are going there with the intention of

688
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 2: learning something, meeting other very powerful, influential people, having big talks,

689
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 2: big thoughts, and when they arrive there, oh, there just

690
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 2: happens to be a bunch of girls around, and you

691
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 2: know some of them are fourteen, but maybe some of

692
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,720
Speaker 2: them are fourteen, but they're saying they're nineteen. Or maybe

693
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 2: these you know, big time billionaires or big thinkers aren't

694
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: checking IDs.

695
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 3: And now Epstein who's.

696
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: Looking to get one over on everybody and maybe have

697
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 2: blackmail at his hands. There's cameras everywhere. He's putting very

698
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 2: important people and compromising positions. There's videotape of it or photographs,

699
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 2: et cetera. And when it comes time to like perhaps

700
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 2: pass some key legislation, there he is and saying, huh,

701
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 2: remember that time you came to the island, And maybe

702
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:16,720
Speaker 2: there's cocktails involved.

703
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 3: I don't know. This is a total guess, but this

704
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,479
Speaker 3: resonates with me a little bit. Yeah, I'm like mind

705
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 3: blown right now.

706
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 2: And I don't literally in my harder parts, and I

707
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 2: am not the judge and jury here, thank goodness, but

708
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 2: in my gut and I think about this way more

709
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 2: than I should. I don't think all of these big

710
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 2: men and brains were going there with the idea of like,

711
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 2: hey guys, let's all meet on the island and traffic

712
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:39,280
Speaker 2: some women.

713
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 3: I'd like to believe that's impossible.

714
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,919
Speaker 2: Or Hey guys, let's all leave our wives at home

715
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 2: and go to the island and get creepy massages and

716
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: have sex with minors. I like to believe that's not

717
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 2: the case. I don't think that was the invitation. Is

718
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 2: it possible that maybe non lecherous men who maybe have

719
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 2: leicherous you know, potential, are led to the island under

720
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 2: the status of an intellectual talk or a retreat, a

721
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 2: retreat exactly, and then next thing you know, you're sucked in.

722
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 2: Next thing you know, you wake up and you're like, oh,

723
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: that was a weird night, and yeah, it sure was

724
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: about that Bill we were discussing. Here's a photo. How

725
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 2: do you feel about getting that through? I'm sure it'll

726
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 2: go through just fine, Thanks for coming. And so it goes,

727
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 2: and now you can't get out of it, like there

728
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 2: has to be blackmail at the core of yes, because well.

729
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 3: We've talked about this before, like Compromont, right, like exactly,

730
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 3: even even like another country that's like I'm not saying

731
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 3: that could be, but it could be somebody who's agenda

732
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 3: what they want pushed through our you know, government agencies

733
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 3: and whatnot right.

734
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 2: Exactly, Or it could be multiple countries or multiple big

735
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 2: players that are saying, hey, Jeffrey Epstein, for some reason,

736
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 2: you're the guy with all the cash in your pocket.

737
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 3: We have no idea what your sourcing is.

738
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 2: And how you have all this money when you have

739
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 2: such a shoddy history. You're not a big dog. You

740
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,959
Speaker 2: were a little dog. Now you are a very rich one.

741
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 2: So hey, can we have you get us some secrets

742
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 2: on so and so for such and such reason. Maybe

743
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 2: that's happening from many sources. And why does Bill Gates

744
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 2: need financing? He's like one of the most richest men

745
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 2: in the planet.

746
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 5: Well he according from his own words, he did say

747
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 5: that he believed Epstein could help raise funds.

748
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 3: For he does many charities, Bill Gates for Global.

749
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 5: Health and using Epstein's contact, because not only does Gates

750
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 5: give a lot of his own but he also does

751
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 5: drama up money. But he said that was why he

752
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 5: connected with him. Those efforts never materialized, and Gates has

753
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 5: since stead said it was a huge mistake.

754
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 3: It was foolish. Yeah.

755
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 5: And allegedly Epstein reportedly tried to involve Gates in a

756
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 5: multi billion dollar charitable fund with JP Morgan Chase, as

757
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 5: you mentioned before, Stephanie, and that deal never came to fruition,

758
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:00,919
Speaker 5: as did men of Epstein's.

759
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 3: Things seem to fall through. But listen, this is true

760
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 3: crime tonight.

761
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 5: We're talking about Jeffrey Epstein and Bill Gates and all

762
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 5: of the messiness and how the GOP leaders are refusing

763
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 5: to swear in someone who could put the last signature

764
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 5: on and get the files released and that's being halted.

765
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 3: What do you think of all this eighty eight three

766
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 3: one crime?

767
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 2: And to that end, now that the government is in

768
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 2: the middle of a shutdown, this could progress, or this

769
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 2: swearing in could progress for a week, two weeks, it

770
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 2: could be a much longer, which is not the norm.

771
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 3: I might add it usually happens within a day or two.

772
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 2: So this is it seems it seems this is the

773
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 2: chatter that this is an alleged attempt to, you know,

774
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 2: make that signature not happen.

775
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 3: So they're going to have this time to probably work

776
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 3: at her and be like, are you sure you want

777
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 3: to sign this? You know, you're a junior congresswoman now right,

778
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 3: are you sure this is how you want to enter

779
00:40:55,680 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 3: you know, your seat? Exactly? Imagine and think about it.

780
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting that everybody that went to this island

781
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 2: too didn't have nefarious potential, or you know, maybe there

782
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 2: were some repeat offenders who were like, oh, I guess

783
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 2: I'm too deep in at this point, I might as

784
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: well go back again and again and again, because there

785
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 2: is a fly list that would suggest that.

786
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 3: However, I do, in my heart.

787
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 2: Like to believe that maybe the idea of Jeffrey Epstein

788
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 2: was that he was set out to lure people to

789
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 2: that island under the guise of intellectual thought, and yet

790
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 2: the real goal was to compromise them.

791
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 3: It could be simple, too, like just around a golf right,

792
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 3: like it doesn't have to be like this big thing

793
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 3: tank even right like of course, to the island to

794
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 3: play my world class you know basketball court. I don't know.

795
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 2: And listen, Gayleen Maxwell, we know she's the perfect wingman.

796
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 2: You know, she's like also legitimizing this the you know,

797
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 2: his you know co court if you will, well, yeah.

798
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 3: It was exactly. You took the words out of my mouth.

799
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,879
Speaker 5: Body earlier when you said why would Bill need any

800
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,479
Speaker 5: cash from Epstein, and again it's because they're contacts, which

801
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 5: really came from Gilaine Maxwell. I mean, this is royals.

802
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 5: This is not that those royals seem to have a

803
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 5: lot of cash for you can't even pay your own assistant.

804
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 3: But it's it looks good on paper that he has

805
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 3: all of these connections. Hard to be royal.

806
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 7: That seems like no walk in the bar. I think

807
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 7: I think I would be just fine. I really do

808
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 7: think it would be just fine. But so, yeah, it's

809
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 7: a body. It's a really it's a web body boo.

810
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 7: But it's a tangled web. I think it is about

811
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 7: to heat up. Remember right behind these signatures are the

812
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 7: victims who have all banned together now to say that

813
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 7: if these files are.

814
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 3: Not released, we're going to release our own list. And

815
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 3: here we go.

816
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 2: So it's like two sets of potential grooming. I'm just

817
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 2: throwing this out there. I don't know this to be

818
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 2: fa I love it. On the one side, young women

819
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 2: who were you know, maybe targeted because they're a little

820
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 2: on the wayward side or they're a little lost in

821
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 2: the sauce and they get sort of targeted to come.

822
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 3: From totally high school.

823
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 2: You know, all the things could have been any of us, vulnerable, vulnerable.

824
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 2: Suddenly they're like, yeah, come be a messuse this is

825
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 2: gonna be great stuff. You're going to get two hundred

826
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 2: bucks a pop as a you know someone who is

827
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 2: a former waitress.

828
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 3: Two hundred bucks. There's a lot of money in those

829
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,919
Speaker 3: days when you're young. My god, it's a lot of money.

830
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 3: Now it seems I would have done for two hundred

831
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 3: dollars exactly.

832
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 2: And you're thinking someone saying, oh, you're so pretty, come

833
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,720
Speaker 2: and you're going to give a massage, and Gilaine Maxwell

834
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 2: is there making it all feel like less.

835
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 3: Creepy, okay and safe.

836
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, we know how that story ends because we know

837
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 2: what the victims are saying anything. But and then maybe

838
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 2: there's this other grooming process where Gilaine Maxwell, who comes

839
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 2: from a very big father who was very well connected,

840
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 2: although defamed back in the UK, she has all these connections.

841
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 2: So does Jeffrey ev Scenes, you know, basically living in

842
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 2: New York, living in West pomp Each, living in these

843
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:02,280
Speaker 2: very high falutin places.

844
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 3: He too has a pretty good roster of people.

845
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,959
Speaker 2: And now we're grooming these influential men to come there

846
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 2: for whatever, you know, golf trip or think tank, whatever

847
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 2: it is, maybe unknowingly knowing that they're stepping into.

848
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 3: A total fixed job. Yeah, soft launch, what do we think.

849
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 3: I'm listen, I'm on board. I am on this train

850
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 3: with you stuff a million percent. My mind is kind

851
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 3: of like a yeah. And if this train is accurate,

852
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 3: it's going to heat up in the next couple of weeks.

853
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 3: They can't.

854
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:39,760
Speaker 2: You know, the government's going to open at some point.

855
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 2: This might go on for maybe it ends on Friday,

856
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 2: maybe it goes two weeks. But it's not a forever thing,

857
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 2: right God willing. So if there is an attempt to

858
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 2: hold these files, I say.

859
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 5: Buckle up well and with the Adelidea Grihalva. It is

860
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 5: very curious that and I know we are in a

861
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 5: government shutdown on however, we were not when she was

862
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,919
Speaker 5: first elected in September twenty third and the past one

863
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 5: two three. I'm looking at a list four newly elected

864
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,919
Speaker 5: representatives who won elections sam as she did.

865
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 3: We're all sworn in one day later, so we're now

866
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:17,959
Speaker 3: eight days later.

867
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 5: Something to think about. Listen, keep it here, top of

868
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 5: the hour. We're getting into wild hoaxes. We've got the

869
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 5: phony kidnappings, you have people stabbing and shooting themselves just

870
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:29,879
Speaker 5: to keep up an.

871
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 3: Act part act. And of course we have that breaking

872
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 3: news in the Idaho student murder case true crime tonight.

873
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 2: There's a lot of hoaxes in the headlines right now,

874
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 2: too many, too many. Body, go ahead, tell us everything.

875
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 3: You guys heard about this park ranger in Colorado, because

876
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 3: I have been kind of digging into this today. So

877
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 3: this happened in August of this year. Okay, mid August,

878
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 3: August nineteenth to be specific. All right, twenty six year

879
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 3: old seasonal ranger Hellum Heskett. He's accused of staging this

880
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:14,439
Speaker 3: super dramatic stabbing hoax at the state park he worked at,

881
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 3: called Stoughton State Park. He claimed he was ambushed by

882
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:23,919
Speaker 3: a stranger and the stranger was like eliciting all these

883
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 3: like anti police like rhetorics while stabbing him. WHOA yes, Okay,

884
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 3: And this this sparked a man hunt, like a literal

885
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 3: man hunt. Did they shut down the parks? They did,

886
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 3: an evacuation. Communities were locked down surrounding this park. But

887
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 3: investigators say the story quickly unraveled and it exposed this

888
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 3: super stage scene and a trail of disturbing digital evidence.

889
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 3: So again, this happened on August nineteenth. He radioed for help. Okay,

890
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 3: he's this park ranger. He radioed for help. He aimed

891
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,959
Speaker 3: a man in a gray shirt and jeans stabbed him

892
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 3: on the Old Mill trail while yelling anti police slurs.

893
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 3: Now you have to know that he's a former cop.

894
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 3: Okay now, but he failed out of the cops. He

895
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 3: got like terminated because obvious issues. Okay, I wonder what

896
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 3: he's yeah, exactly. So his call set off this emergency response,

897
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 3: and we were just talking about swatting. Like imagine that

898
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 3: time's thirty, right, Like, imagine that time shutting down a park,

899
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 3: people being terrified, locked in their houses and surrounding communities, right, So, yeah,

900
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 3: it's nuts. Multiple agencies, including swat right, drones, aviation units

901
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 3: scoured the area. I mean, they're looking for this guy

902
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:55,280
Speaker 3: that stabbed this park ranger, you know on so bodycam

903
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 3: footage showed him holding his cell phone and texting and

904
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 3: filming because he was filming too, while a knife was

905
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 3: still lodged in his abdomen. He was taking pictures of

906
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,760
Speaker 3: it and filming it, and you know, he later said

907
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 3: that it was to document the scene and this helicopter

908
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,399
Speaker 3: ride that he was on he showed his parents. Yeah,

909
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 3: it was all. It was all staged. Investigators noted dirt

910
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 3: only on the knees of his uniform, not on his back. Right,

911
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 3: he wasn't had nothing on his back. These investigators are brilliant.

912
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 3: I gotta give credit where credit is due, because he

913
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 3: indicated there was this violent like ground struggle. Well, your

914
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 3: back isn't dirty at all, only your knees are, right,

915
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 3: So they noted that, and he gave inconsistent statements to detective,

916
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,280
Speaker 3: changing a lot of details about whether he pepper sprayed

917
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,879
Speaker 3: the suspect. So they were onto him. Then they get

918
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 3: a hold of his phone, right, and he's doing all

919
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 3: the searches, all these searching like how how can you

920
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 3: stab yourself in the stomach and avoid arteries? I'm paraphrasing,

921
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 3: but these are the things that he was doing. So yeah,

922
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 3: I mean he he also searched one million dollars for

923
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 3: each time you'd get stabbed. So I think he thought

924
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 3: maybe he would get some kind of like settlements or

925
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 3: you know whatnot from from stabbing himself. Authorities found zero

926
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 3: evidence of an attacker, and later described the entire thing

927
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 3: is an elaborate hopes. He was arrested two days later

928
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 3: while he was still in the hospital because he got

929
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 3: airlifted to the hospital and had to get surgery on

930
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 3: his stomach. What a waste of resources.

931
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, I hope this guy is on the hook for

932
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 5: every single penny times two. That should just be for

933
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 5: people flying the helicopter. Listen, it's a day and there's

934
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 5: a helicopter accident, and then there's four deaths because of

935
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 5: your pokes.

936
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 2: Or there's an emergency or a crime at your home

937
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,080
Speaker 2: and there's nobody to come help because everybody's at the

938
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 2: park solving this guy's pretend crime.

939
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 3: Or you're walking your dog at the park with your

940
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 3: earbuds on and you're wearing a gray sweatshirt and suddenly

941
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 3: you're surrounded by a swat team who thinks you just

942
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 3: stab somebody, and you're like resisting because you're like, I

943
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 3: didn't do anything. You get shot and killed, like exactly right.

944
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 3: You just never know what could happen. And this kind

945
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 3: of gives me heated a little bit.

946
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 2: I hate these hots coffee.

947
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't do this, so he was still

948
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:31,879
Speaker 3: in the hospital and they arrested him, and they charged

949
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 3: him with multiple multiple offences including false reporting, tampering with evidence,

950
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 3: reckless endangerment. Again, that reckless endangement is huge and attempting

951
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 3: to influence a public servant. He has not yet entered

952
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 3: to plea. His next Court of Parents is scheduled for

953
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 3: a disposition hearing Wednesday. It's coming up next wow. While

954
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 3: investigators continue reviewing evidence and his possible motive. I think

955
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,919
Speaker 3: his possible motive is that he's a nut job. Right.

956
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 5: Well, the one million dollars per stabbing, I wonder, and

957
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 5: this is conjecture, but I wonder if that wasn't for

958
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 5: sort of workmen's comp since he was a ranger could

959
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 5: be hard, right, So.

960
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 3: You can't get comp if you've stabbed yourself to well,

961
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:19,800
Speaker 3: he he was gonna basically say that he was stabbed

962
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 3: while on duty though by a stranger in a Grace

963
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 3: and a Grace sweatshirt. That was of course, you know,

964
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 3: Antifa or something that hated that hated cops. I don't know,

965
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,399
Speaker 3: right that was what he was doing because, like I said,

966
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 3: he was a former police officer in Lafayette, Colorado, and

967
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,800
Speaker 3: he only worked there from October to July of twenty

968
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 3: twenty four, and he resigned because he was on the

969
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 3: chopping block. According to records, he did not pass portions

970
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 3: of the field training program and was deemed not to

971
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:54,760
Speaker 3: have demonstrated the quote unquote sufficient proficiency in critical areas

972
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 3: needed to be a police officer. So he's he's like,

973
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 3: he's a former cop, but he never passed the right

974
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 3: He was like probationary. So his whole spiel is that

975
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:07,479
Speaker 3: my attacker hates cops and I'm a cop.

976
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 2: Unbelievable, and he's never going to be the hero somehow.

977
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:12,959
Speaker 2: By the way, your hair looks pretty right now.

978
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 3: Does it? Oh my god? Slight tangent, but it looks

979
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 3: thank you. I just got to cut little really nice.

980
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 3: Oh well, look at me? Okay, Well now I'm blushing.

981
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 3: Oh my god, what if I I know, it's just

982
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 3: like I I have a side pony in right now?

983
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:32,879
Speaker 3: Still you bear with you know, look at right? So

984
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 3: I'm all a plumped. Okay. So the Colorado Peace Officer

985
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 3: Standards in Training database in twenty twenty five still shows

986
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 3: him as certified, although it's unclear whether that status is

987
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 3: contested or tied to this case at all. We just

988
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 3: don't know. Hopefully we'll learn more about it. This is

989
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 3: true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We are like in the

990
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 3: middle of talking about hoaxes. Are you a victim of

991
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 3: a hoax?

992
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 5: Like?

993
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 3: I want to hear your hoax stories? Give it's called

994
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 3: eighty eight thirty one crime. Courtney, you have one too,

995
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,760
Speaker 3: what's your story? Okay, We're going down to Florida, ladies.

996
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 2: I love the bathing suit yet bathing suit in the sunscreen.

997
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 5: So in Florida, a seventeen year old. It was a

998
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 5: guy named Hayden Spiite. This guy triggered an Amber alert

999
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 5: after he claimed he had been shot and abducted, and

1000
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 5: authorities are now saying it was a hoax. I mean,

1001
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 5: Amber alerts are such huge h law enforcement engagement procedural activities.

1002
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:39,280
Speaker 5: So Sheriff Billy Woods revealed that Spite fled with camping gear.

1003
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 5: He did shoot himself in the leg just to ice

1004
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 5: put the icing on the story, and was later found

1005
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 5: really safe. This investigation began just a little bit of

1006
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 5: go September twenty fifth, after a really urgent message from

1007
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 5: the seventeen year old prompted this amber alert authority said

1008
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 5: he was texting his family claiming, I'm sure I'm stolen,

1009
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,479
Speaker 5: I'm abducted, and.

1010
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 3: I'm like what really?

1011
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get in red flag, red flag, red red flag,

1012
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 2: red flag.

1013
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 3: Okay, sorry, so spite was last scene.

1014
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 5: The ambulert said that he was last seen that afternoon

1015
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 5: septime twenty fifth, in a T shirt, some jeans, and

1016
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 5: that they might have been with four men in a

1017
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 5: light colored van. This was information authority later authorities later

1018
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 5: determined was unfounded. So he was really laying it on

1019
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 5: this call to his parents. It was a huge search,

1020
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 5: large scale. There was aviation, there were detectives, there were

1021
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 5: mounted units, there were field force units, and they worked

1022
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 5: all through the night to find this guy. Well, they

1023
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 5: went to the site where the seventeen year old's abandoned

1024
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 5: truck was and right there they found evidence of a

1025
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 5: single gunshot. Later detectives then found receipts showing that this

1026
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 5: guy had bought himself a bicycle, a tent, and some

1027
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:05,280
Speaker 5: camping applies at Walmart before he disappeared. I mean please,

1028
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 5: And he was woultimately found totally safe, about twenty miles

1029
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 5: from his car after apparently riding away on his bicycle.

1030
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 3: What, yeah, was he just what was he trying to do? Like,

1031
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 3: what was his motive? Well, it is absolutely unclear because

1032
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 3: and I kept emphasizing that he was seventeen, because his

1033
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,799
Speaker 3: parents have refused to allow him to speak with detectives.

1034
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:37,320
Speaker 5: So there's no motive.

1035
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 3: There's no motive released.

1036
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 2: He has an apparents don't have a choice, though you

1037
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 2: can saying lawyer up and immediately then you say nothing.

1038
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 3: I do not have to say anything. I would say

1039
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:54,479
Speaker 3: the same thing if I was the parent to charge

1040
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 3: you the same thing. Right, Well, it's listen.

1041
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 5: One of the spirits said there were an alarming amount

1042
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 5: of red flags. I think that's being tasteful about it,

1043
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 5: and there would be investigation, and that there were also

1044
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 5: witnesses who contradicted this teen's story. Finally, quote, there is

1045
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:18,399
Speaker 5: zero chance that Cayden's gunshot wound came from any type

1046
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 5: of assailant.

1047
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 3: Wow, they're they're pretty sad, they know, Yeah, but it's

1048
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 3: not firm.

1049
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,720
Speaker 5: The sheriff didn't rule in or rule out whether spite

1050
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 5: would face charges. So investigators are reviewing evidence, and he

1051
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 5: is locked up because his parents wouldn't let him speak.

1052
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 2: So I can't wait to see how this story unfolds.

1053
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 2: And to your question, anyone was rush them out? Maybe

1054
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 2: a bunch of attention. I hope that's the only reason

1055
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 2: that maybe he just wanted to, you know, think about it,

1056
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,840
Speaker 2: friendtal Lobes. In the young boys, they are not fully

1057
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 2: developed for a very long time, and I think the

1058
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 2: key ingredient there is consequences. You know, this all sounds

1059
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 2: like a a like a good idea and like your

1060
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 2: dummy head and you know, next thing, you know, like

1061
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 2: this is really really really big, very very tragic. Could

1062
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 2: have been even more dangerous than it was.

1063
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 3: And I don't know that he's got way back to too.

1064
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 3: I remember one time. This is not the same. But

1065
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 3: I was out way past curfew, Okay, I was like

1066
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 3: seventeen maybe, and I was with my best friend Maya Hi,

1067
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 3: Maya Hi. So we were you know, being bad girls, right,

1068
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 3: and we were trying to figure out ways from meeting

1069
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 3: in my house because my mom was like I did

1070
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 3: see the lights on. I knew she was scary, what's

1071
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 3: gonna happen? And I remember thinking, well, maybe if I

1072
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 3: break my leg. So me and Maya literally took like

1073
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 3: sand bags and started like hitting my legs. I literally, yes, Well.

1074
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 7: I guess I kind of wonder it's like this zandbag

1075
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 7: or a gun.

1076
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 3: I think that is the rationianale. It's not the same thing. No,

1077
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 3: but you can see where it can go sideways.

1078
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, your mind anything better than mom's consequences.

1079
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 3: And I'm a smart adult, dumb kid. Okay, who was it?

1080
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 3: Oh my, the story the tales I can tell.

1081
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 2: We all can, right, So that is we're not dismissing

1082
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 2: this or minimizing this. No, but you talk about mindset

1083
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 2: consequences like this is a mess, and he's going to

1084
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 2: have legal bills and there's going to be retribution to

1085
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 2: be paid at the bare minimum. Obviously he's injured, like

1086
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 2: this is dopey, Like who knows if the long term

1087
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 2: effects of that is?

1088
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 3: Oh I know, and like let alone, we're all talking

1089
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 3: about it.

1090
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 2: So it's like now national news, it's a real stink fest.

1091
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 9: He's seventeen, so maybe you know to your point like

1092
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 9: not fully developed. But then when there are people like

1093
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 9: Sherry Peppina, like.

1094
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 3: Oh man, oh her brain was developed.

1095
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 9: It was developed, And that one is wild to me. Yeah,

1096
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 9: you know that story inside it out?

1097
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 3: Well, Sherry Peppini.

1098
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 2: If you guys remember she was a married woman, she

1099
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 2: had two children, and you know she was the gone girl.

1100
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 2: She was everywhere because her husband comes home one day

1101
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 2: and there's no Sherry, his beloved, beautiful wife. They had

1102
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 2: a really beautiful thing. They'd been together for many years,

1103
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 2: and sure enough Sherry is gone, and there is a

1104
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 2: search for Sherry. Let's get her home, and let's get

1105
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 2: her home safely. But she turns up, and she turns up.

1106
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 2: She's been beaten and bruised, and she's been she's been

1107
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 2: like branded, like literally she's had she's been captured, and.

1108
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 3: Her hair was cut off, hair was cut off.

1109
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 2: She was like all beaten up and just like super

1110
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 2: intense people that had been throwing like chains on her

1111
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 2: and stuff. And she had made a very real accusation

1112
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 2: that I don't even want to say again because it

1113
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 2: was so deflammat She essentially said it was a certain

1114
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 2: type of person a raise specifically to women, and that

1115
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 2: she had been abducted in left fur dead and here

1116
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 2: she was, thank god, Cherry's home and she comes home

1117
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 2: to a big, huge welcome, only to find out that

1118
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 2: Cherry was actually shacked up with her ex boyfriend and

1119
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 2: she had ran away to him and she made the

1120
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 2: ex boyfriend beat her up crazy allegedly, allegedly allegedly, so

1121
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 2: she had to do a lot of time for this.

1122
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 2: This is not she was convicted of this, so we're

1123
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 2: not really talking.

1124
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 3: Out of school now.

1125
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 2: She has since come out and it has not caught

1126
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 2: traction that really the ex boyfriend had like lured her

1127
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 2: out and that that was more tangled. But trust me,

1128
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 2: investigators have been knee deep into it and nothing really

1129
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 2: has come of that. Imagine you want to get out

1130
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 2: of your relationship, so that's the angle.

1131
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 1: Mmmmm.

1132
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 3: Come on Verify on Thanksgiving and yeah, thank you right well,

1133
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 3: coming up a celebrity who made national headlines after he

1134
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 3: claimed he was attacked and it was later revealed to

1135
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,560
Speaker 3: be a total hoax. And we have breaking news in

1136
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 3: the Cobracker case. Keep it right here a True Crimesnight.

1137
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1138
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Lydecker here with Courtney.

1139
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 2: I'm strong body move in Courtney and I have our

1140
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 2: weighted vests out.

1141
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 3: We are passing the program.

1142
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 2: Yeah a little late, I was late to the game tonight,

1143
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 2: but I'm feeling ready to take it on. We're talking

1144
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 2: about a lot of hoaxes. So you guys remember Jesse

1145
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 2: Smolette for example, we'll get into that. Also, he was

1146
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 2: the one that said he was the victim of a

1147
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 2: hate crime in Chicago. You'll remember he was the star

1148
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 2: of the show Empire and he has a different tale

1149
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 2: to tell of this side of the story.

1150
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 3: But let's go to we talk oh I tam leader

1151
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 3: in Australia.

1152
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 11: Just on the Michael Frankie case that was raised in

1153
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 11: talkback Tuesday, there is I can be an iHeart podcast

1154
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 11: called Murder in Oregon dot Com hovers off on the

1155
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,479
Speaker 11: case and it goes into a really I guess deep

1156
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 11: dive on it. Definitely can recommend. Also, just a quick

1157
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 11: question on the piped in massacre. What's going on with

1158
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 11: the last trial? I don't really understand why it's been

1159
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 11: so long and the last trial hasn't happened. Thanks, Well, we.

1160
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 2: Can answer the piked in part. First, the pikedon massacre.

1161
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 2: If you haven't heard the podcast, it's on iHeartRadio as well.

1162
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:29,959
Speaker 2: You'll recognize Courtney Armstrong's voice and we all have participated

1163
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 2: with that. Since day one, I think there's fifty two

1164
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 2: episodes and we've done two docs, so there's a lot

1165
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 2: to unpack to this case. There is a final trial

1166
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 2: and it was set to happen many months ago and

1167
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 2: then it didn't and then it got postponed. We're going

1168
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 2: to do a very large deep dive on this, but

1169
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:52,280
Speaker 2: it is not a quickie, right. So the reasons for

1170
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 2: why it's been pushed is complicated and layered, and it

1171
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 2: is real loss in the sauce in.

1172
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 3: Court stuff, court stuff more.

1173
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a new judge, there were new there have

1174
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 5: been overturned things that had been decided. So, as Stephanie said,

1175
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 5: it's all trial stuff, pre trial stuff that is ongoing

1176
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 5: and we don't there is no date published, but when

1177
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 5: it is. We were so excited to cover this trial

1178
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:23,439
Speaker 5: every single day.

1179
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:26,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, who's on Who's getting tried right now?

1180
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 2: Dad? So of the accused, the well not even accused,

1181
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 2: like of two, there's there's four of the Wagner family.

1182
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 2: It's a family of four mother, father, two brothers who

1183
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 2: took the lives of eight extraordinary people in Pie County, Ohio.

1184
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 2: Mom took a plead deal, youngest son takes a plead deal.

1185
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:49,760
Speaker 2: Eldest son. Yep, Jake took a pleate deal. He kind

1186
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 2: of cracked this whole thing open. And then the eldest brother, George,

1187
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 2: he went to trial and was found guilty. Even though

1188
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 2: he probably had the least skin in the game.

1189
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 3: Jake did the most right. Jake did the most.

1190
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 2: Jake actually, you know, murdered the mother of his daughter

1191
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 2: while she was breastfeeding, leaving a five day old baby

1192
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 2: breastfeeding on a dead human.

1193
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:16,919
Speaker 3: Imagined the depravity there.

1194
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 2: So there's dad is up next, and it is it's

1195
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 2: a it's a tail, it's a.

1196
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 3: Tale his baby, right, correct, I'm sorry. At the time,

1197
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 3: his daughter was his baby.

1198
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 2: So he had a child, a three year old, and

1199
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 2: the parents split up. Had to May rode in sort

1200
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 2: of at the center of this and her family had

1201
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 2: to May had a child with Jake Wagner. They split up,

1202
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 2: and they split time, and their kids are young. They're

1203
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 2: very you know she was at the time, was probably

1204
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 2: when they had the baby, like seventeen or so, of.

1205
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 3: Court, is that right? Seventeen? I think she was sixteen

1206
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 3: when she had the baby.

1207
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 2: They were young, so they were kind of splitting time

1208
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:00,439
Speaker 2: between his family's house and her family's house. She comes

1209
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 2: from an awesome family, really loving, really beloved, really loud

1210
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 2: and boisterous and funny, and he comes from a little

1211
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 2: very sophisticated family air quotes or air quotes, wealthier family

1212
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 2: that were a little cooler. But again, they all loved

1213
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 2: this baby so much that they everybody jumped in both sides.

1214
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 2: Hannah and Jake break up, and Hannah gets with somebody else. Eventually,

1215
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 2: as a young girl, would you know, now she's eighteen

1216
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 2: years old, she's raising a little girl, gets with the

1217
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 2: new guy, and it appears that.

1218
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 3: Jake wasn't having it.

1219
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 2: And then Angela Wagner, his mother, alongside her two boys

1220
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 2: and her husband. The husband still has to have his

1221
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 2: trial and probably January February is a pure guest. They

1222
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 2: put a plan together, a plot to not only murder Hannahme,

1223
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 2: but murder Hannahme's entire family, her her brother, her mother,

1224
01:05:56,520 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 2: her father, her brother's beautiful uh fiance seemed to be wife,

1225
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 2: their three year old child.

1226
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:09,480
Speaker 3: His three year old child hid under the bed. That's right.

1227
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 3: I mean, it's really rough and beautiful holidays since I listened.

1228
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 2: That's why it's a long one, Hannah Gilly. They had

1229
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 2: just had a baby. It's really just the uncle of

1230
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:21,560
Speaker 2: Hannahme gets more. I mean it goes on eight.

1231
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 3: People, right, all four locations at the same time, right

1232
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:27,400
Speaker 3: like yeah, within minutes of one another kind.

1233
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 5: Of thing over the course of one night. Because they

1234
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 5: were on it was four separate properties. Three of them

1235
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 5: were very close together but still different houses. And then

1236
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 5: the fourth house was further down the road. But that's

1237
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 5: why at the beginning of the investigation body it was

1238
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 5: extremely coordinated. The thought was, this has to be a

1239
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 5: mob hit. This has to be professional assassins, they thought,

1240
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 5: but drugs or something. At first, didn't they like a

1241
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,880
Speaker 5: cartel hit or cartel It was so sophisticated.

1242
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:04,959
Speaker 2: Ask me who put the plan together? Oh, Angela Wagner, Mom,

1243
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 2: I knew it.

1244
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:05,919
Speaker 3: So.

1245
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:10,920
Speaker 2: Mom who had this young girl living with her because

1246
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 2: she wanted to have, you know, custody of her granddaughter,

1247
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 2: thought that would be a better life. She decided to

1248
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:22,720
Speaker 2: put a plan together for her sons and allegedly her husband. Again,

1249
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 2: husband's trial is still to come, so he claims his

1250
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 2: innocence that the best plan would be to dismurder everybody

1251
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 2: and slaughter them with a capital s like depravity. Talk

1252
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 2: about seeing crime scene photos like I don't want to.

1253
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 2: There's so much I wish we hadn't seen in court,

1254
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 2: but it is a.

1255
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:44,440
Speaker 3: Ye, went right. You guys went down here multiple difference, Wait,

1256
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 3: oddly over years. Yeah, you guys have been on this

1257
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 3: since day one. When I met you, you were covering

1258
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 3: this heavily. That's right, that's where we were doing the

1259
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:56,880
Speaker 3: panel this case.

1260
01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1261
01:07:57,480 --> 01:08:01,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we love Pie County, I know, and you

1262
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 3: love that love that family. Yes, and you don't know them.

1263
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 2: It was just a case that we all got hyper

1264
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:11,200
Speaker 2: connected to. And yeah, you know we have Whitney Galloway

1265
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 2: here with us, working with us, and she was also affected.

1266
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's one of those cases that you don't

1267
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:18,400
Speaker 2: realize the ripples.

1268
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:23,719
Speaker 5: They are wide and far. Listen, this is true crime tonight.

1269
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 5: I'm Courtney, I'm here with body, I'm here with Stephanie,

1270
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:30,760
Speaker 5: and we were just answering a talkback on the Pike

1271
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:34,759
Speaker 5: County murders and now we are going to get into

1272
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,800
Speaker 5: Jesse Smollay and oh yeah.

1273
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 3: That's right. Do you guys remember this case?

1274
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 7: I thought it was details or fail, I say, smole Ay,

1275
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 7: But you know that's me.

1276
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:48,640
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm saying all right, but I'm

1277
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:52,519
Speaker 3: gonna say like it. Just say so. This happened right

1278
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:55,719
Speaker 3: before COVID the lot. You know this was This happened

1279
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 3: in January twenty nineteen. I guess it was a year

1280
01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:01,639
Speaker 3: but before Colvin and he do you guys remember he

1281
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:04,240
Speaker 3: claimed he was this victim of this like racist and

1282
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 3: homophobic attack and turns out in Chicago, right and turns

1283
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:11,559
Speaker 3: out no, it was a big hoax. This is going

1284
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 3: back to our hoax theme that we have tonight, wicked Wednesdays.

1285
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 3: Yeah Wednesdays. Yeah, this we're soft launching, he launched, Well done. Well,

1286
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 3: I have to apologize. I feel a little bit hyper.

1287
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:24,600
Speaker 3: I think I drink too much coffee.

1288
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:27,799
Speaker 5: I just like, so, why you guys are drinking coffee

1289
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 5: this time and night.

1290
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's crazy, super late. I have like

1291
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:35,719
Speaker 3: my stash and yeah we shouldn't. I guess they shouldn't.

1292
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:39,640
Speaker 3: It's very dangerous. Okay, listen, Well, this happened January of

1293
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:43,280
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, he reported. He admit he had been attacked

1294
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 3: by two men who were shouting, you know, racist and

1295
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 3: homophobic slurs and pouring a chemical on him and putting

1296
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:52,280
Speaker 3: a rope around his neck. I mean, this is like

1297
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:56,360
Speaker 3: highly inflammatory. Right, So when somebody of stature comes out

1298
01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 3: and says, you know, this guy's famous, right, He's empire

1299
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:01,760
Speaker 3: was such a good it was such a good show,

1300
01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:04,599
Speaker 3: such a good and he was so good on it,

1301
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:08,120
Speaker 3: and he was so good. So somebody of stature comes

1302
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 3: out and they're like this, these people they threw a

1303
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 3: chemical imium, tried to hang me like with a noose.

1304
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:18,600
Speaker 3: This has like massive inflammatory implications, right, So all of

1305
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 3: us who are like, oh, this is how this is horrible, horrible,

1306
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 3: like what are where? What world are we living in?

1307
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 10: Oh?

1308
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 3: My god? It was a hoax? Yes? What the heck?

1309
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 3: So he told police that assailants yelled quote unquote maga country, right,

1310
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 3: linking the alleged assault to Trump supporters and highlighting national

1311
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:44,920
Speaker 3: with this just heightened everything right now, yeah, and like

1312
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:46,800
Speaker 3: how we're living right now? Do you remember?

1313
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 11: I mean?

1314
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:51,360
Speaker 3: Oh so. Detectives later concluded the incident was staged, with

1315
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:57,439
Speaker 3: Smoley allegedly pain acquaintances thirty five hundred dollars to carry

1316
01:10:57,439 --> 01:11:01,080
Speaker 3: it out. He hired these two guys that are like actors.

1317
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:06,600
Speaker 3: They totally rehearsed this whole thing and staged it. A

1318
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:10,960
Speaker 3: Cook County grand jury indicted Smolet on felony chargers for

1319
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 3: filing false reports, and those charges were controversially dropped weeks

1320
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:20,040
Speaker 3: later in exchange for community service and forfeiting a ten

1321
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 3: thousand dollars bond. So it kind of looks like he

1322
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 3: just kind of paid his way out of it.

1323
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:24,760
Speaker 9: A little bit.

1324
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:27,240
Speaker 3: I forgot that part of it.

1325
01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 5: I remembered all of the big graphic with the rope

1326
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:31,840
Speaker 5: and the acquaintances and the pang off.

1327
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:36,639
Speaker 2: But wow, the acquaintances were very interesting too, because remember

1328
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:39,679
Speaker 2: they were kind of actors like they were I think

1329
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:40,440
Speaker 2: they were.

1330
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:42,240
Speaker 3: He used to work out with them. One of them

1331
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 3: was his trainer.

1332
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:45,200
Speaker 2: One of them with his trainer, I believe, and then

1333
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:51,639
Speaker 2: there was the trainer's brother and Jesse. He would promise

1334
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:54,000
Speaker 2: them like, hey, you'll get a part as an extra on.

1335
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:57,840
Speaker 3: Empire on my show? Did show? They were extra? Yeah?

1336
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:00,760
Speaker 3: They were extra. It worked. So there was a lot

1337
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 3: of public backlash, you know, about him getting this bond

1338
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:08,479
Speaker 3: release and whatnot, and like you know, So there was

1339
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:12,280
Speaker 3: a special prosecutor assigned to this case, and charges were

1340
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 3: basically refiled in twenty twenty, in December of trying no

1341
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:21,640
Speaker 3: good right, because listen, listen, this really kind of nullifies

1342
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:24,400
Speaker 3: real issues that are happening in this you know what

1343
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:24,640
Speaker 3: I mean.

1344
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:28,040
Speaker 9: Last such a heated moment. I remember when it first happened, and.

1345
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:29,600
Speaker 3: I was outraged, like all of us.

1346
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:30,080
Speaker 12: Of course you.

1347
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 9: Believe this happened, like this, what is this country coming to?

1348
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:35,720
Speaker 9: And then later when you get that turn and you're like,

1349
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 9: wait a minute, this guy made all of this up,

1350
01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 9: and now it makes like, you know, as someone who's

1351
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:44,080
Speaker 9: African American in the gay community, it's like all these

1352
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:47,040
Speaker 9: things like that we're fighting for and trying to move forward,

1353
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 9: real issues, real issues. He's put this forest together. Now

1354
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:55,240
Speaker 9: it looks foolish. Now, sometimes something really does happen, people

1355
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:58,000
Speaker 9: look with a side eye, like really, did that really

1356
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:01,160
Speaker 9: happen to you? It just the whole thing was really

1357
01:13:01,160 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 9: disturbing and upsetting. But sorry, I had to jump in.

1358
01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:05,080
Speaker 3: Beyore No, I'm so glad you did. I mean, your

1359
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:09,679
Speaker 3: your perspective specifically is important, right, because this is why

1360
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:12,080
Speaker 3: we're all upset by it because of your perspective, like,

1361
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:15,160
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, this is terrible, like God forbid something

1362
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:17,839
Speaker 3: happens to our dear Taha right, we love.

1363
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:18,439
Speaker 9: Him, thank you?

1364
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like, oh my god, justice right, yeah,

1365
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:23,519
Speaker 3: God forbid, it's not going to happen.

1366
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:27,040
Speaker 9: I was like saying, I remank you, oh thank you.

1367
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:28,880
Speaker 3: I'll see you've got my back. I love that I

1368
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 3: cut your back.

1369
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:31,599
Speaker 9: It made it even worse because I would I watched

1370
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:33,799
Speaker 9: him when Empire. I was a big fan of the show.

1371
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 3: I love that show.

1372
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:37,799
Speaker 9: Just lined up that made it even more horrific.

1373
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:42,879
Speaker 3: But so A year later, in December Christmas time December

1374
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:46,840
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, he was convicted on five counts of

1375
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:50,920
Speaker 3: disorderly conduct and sentence in March of twenty twenty two,

1376
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 3: a whole year and a half later to one hundred

1377
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:56,240
Speaker 3: and fifty days in jail plus one hundred and twenty

1378
01:13:56,240 --> 01:14:01,240
Speaker 3: thousand dollars restitution. He served six days total before being

1379
01:14:01,320 --> 01:14:05,000
Speaker 3: released pending appeal in November of twenty twenty four. I mean,

1380
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:06,880
Speaker 3: this is gone for years, you guys. This is in

1381
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 3: November of twenty twenty four that Illinois Supreme Court overturned

1382
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:17,440
Speaker 3: his convictions, ruling prosecutors violated his due process by refiling

1383
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:20,519
Speaker 3: the charges after dismissal, like double jeopardy kind of thing. Well,

1384
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:22,080
Speaker 3: that's when you said that.

1385
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:22,560
Speaker 9: I know.

1386
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:25,679
Speaker 5: I'll be honest, this makes sense because I was going

1387
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 5: to I was going to ask you that really didn't

1388
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:32,240
Speaker 5: make sense, like, oh, made the wrong charges, let's try again.

1389
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:35,040
Speaker 3: That didn't right. No, I get it, I get it,

1390
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:37,240
Speaker 3: even though I kind of turned a blind eye to

1391
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:39,080
Speaker 3: that because I really wanted him to pay the price.

1392
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:41,320
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie, I really really, you know, but

1393
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:44,639
Speaker 3: I do. I do you know understand? But they they

1394
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:47,920
Speaker 3: basically had they settled, Okay, so he got away with it.

1395
01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:51,680
Speaker 3: He had to pay. The settlement basically was that he

1396
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:54,600
Speaker 3: had to donate sixty thousand dollars to a couple nonprofits.

1397
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:56,439
Speaker 3: So he got it. He got away with it. Now,

1398
01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:58,599
Speaker 3: imagine you don't have this kind of money. Oh my god.

1399
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:00,720
Speaker 9: You know, Yeah, what happens to someone that case? But

1400
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:04,400
Speaker 9: so does anyone? Have you seen the documentary like his.

1401
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:09,080
Speaker 3: I listen, I refuse to watch anything he's affiliated with

1402
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:10,439
Speaker 3: because he's so angered me.

1403
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:14,040
Speaker 2: I've seen it, and he did really claims his innocence.

1404
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:18,320
Speaker 2: He claims his innocence. He's still about he seems a

1405
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:21,559
Speaker 2: little yeah, I mean he says it was, you know,

1406
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:25,640
Speaker 2: it's this is all he's he's been wronged. Frankly, how

1407
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:29,200
Speaker 2: does he justify with all of the think about it too?

1408
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:31,680
Speaker 2: They're also it came out that in fact, he was

1409
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:35,240
Speaker 2: up for a negotiation in Empire and went on the

1410
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:38,920
Speaker 2: screen of his very long standing series that he was

1411
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 2: kind of a breakout star in that he might get cut,

1412
01:15:42,040 --> 01:15:45,040
Speaker 2: and that this was maybe a way to kind of

1413
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 2: create public empathy for him and make it impossible for

1414
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:51,439
Speaker 2: the show to Actually, you can't cut him.

1415
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:54,040
Speaker 3: He just got a tave just.

1416
01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:56,559
Speaker 2: You know, like his name was everywhere, so now his

1417
01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:59,839
Speaker 2: name is everywhere, and maybe in a very beloved way.

1418
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:01,760
Speaker 3: And everyone was feeling sad.

1419
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:04,800
Speaker 2: For him until they stopped feeling sad for him, and

1420
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:06,040
Speaker 2: everybody kind of turned.

1421
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:07,559
Speaker 3: But I would I.

1422
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:11,200
Speaker 5: Also have no interest body in watching this documentary. I

1423
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 5: got so grossed out watching the Sherry Peppini documentary and

1424
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:16,479
Speaker 5: sitting her there being like.

1425
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:17,320
Speaker 3: We all lie.

1426
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:23,960
Speaker 2: Who gets more annoyed, Kendra or Sherry Peppini, Kendra Tendron.

1427
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:29,320
Speaker 3: Collar Kendra, Kendra. He keep it here and give us

1428
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:29,559
Speaker 3: a call.

1429
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:32,439
Speaker 5: Eighty D three crime, Who do you think should Who's

1430
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:33,600
Speaker 5: the worst one?

1431
01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 3: We are going to be hearing from you when we

1432
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:36,800
Speaker 3: come back.

1433
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:39,840
Speaker 5: And we have an update that just came out in

1434
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:42,000
Speaker 5: the Idaho student murders case.

1435
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:42,760
Speaker 3: Keep it here.

1436
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:55,759
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1437
01:16:55,760 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm staff here with Courtney

1438
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:01,559
Speaker 2: and Boddy and of course Taha in the boys in

1439
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:04,599
Speaker 2: the control room, Sam and Adam. So this night has

1440
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:07,360
Speaker 2: flown by yet again. But Baddy, you have breaking news

1441
01:17:07,479 --> 01:17:09,200
Speaker 2: in yeah, in Idaho.

1442
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we all know that the appearance of Madison

1443
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 3: Mogan filed motion to bar the release of crime scene

1444
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 3: photos you know that contain you know, Maddie's room and

1445
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:26,080
Speaker 3: in any of you know, basically saying like her dignity

1446
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:30,800
Speaker 3: and those of her friends and roommates should be intact, right,

1447
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:34,160
Speaker 3: And the judge has come back and said, yeah, I agree.

1448
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:36,799
Speaker 3: So graphic photos from the crime scene where Brian Coberger

1449
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:43,479
Speaker 3: killed four Idaho college students will not be released. The

1450
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:46,759
Speaker 3: Idaho judge, her name is Megan Marshall, has blocked public

1451
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 3: release of particularly graphic crime scene images from this twenty

1452
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:54,320
Speaker 3: twenty two murders committed by Brian Coberger, ruling that the

1453
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:57,679
Speaker 3: emotional harm to the victim's families would outweigh public interest

1454
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:00,719
Speaker 3: in seeing those images. The order requests is that any

1455
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:05,719
Speaker 3: release photos that have already been released to remove images

1456
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:10,320
Speaker 3: of the victims' bodies or surrounding blood. And the reason

1457
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:13,400
Speaker 3: that's kind of a thing is that some of the

1458
01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:17,839
Speaker 3: photos that we got were blurred right, and we couldn't

1459
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:20,080
Speaker 3: see any of the victims' bodies, but you can make

1460
01:18:20,120 --> 01:18:26,000
Speaker 3: it out right. And additionally, particularly in Xanna's room, but

1461
01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:28,599
Speaker 3: also in Maddie's as well, we can see blood spatter

1462
01:18:29,120 --> 01:18:33,360
Speaker 3: right and it's it's horrific. Well, the police department's going

1463
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 3: to have to black all that out now. But unfortunately

1464
01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:37,800
Speaker 3: the you know, the cats out of the bag, it's

1465
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:41,719
Speaker 3: already been released, but any future ones that they would

1466
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:45,720
Speaker 3: have released are going to permanently be blocked out. We're

1467
01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:47,599
Speaker 3: not going to see We're not going to see any

1468
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:50,559
Speaker 3: of them. I think it's great. I actually think it's great.

1469
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 3: And here's why.

1470
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:54,640
Speaker 2: Just because the general public, I know that I have

1471
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:56,920
Speaker 2: a sneaking suspicion. You're going to say, but like these

1472
01:18:56,920 --> 01:19:00,480
Speaker 2: are informative and sometimes it is tells for future investigations.

1473
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:02,840
Speaker 2: I'm not putting words in your mouth, but I feel

1474
01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:04,719
Speaker 2: like that's maybe where you're.

1475
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:06,679
Speaker 3: Going to go with this. But and I don't disagree

1476
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:07,719
Speaker 3: with that, but that is.

1477
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:12,040
Speaker 2: Like you're requesting photographs for a specific thing, and you

1478
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:16,120
Speaker 2: understand what information you're getting and it's very very sacred,

1479
01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 2: and you're prepared to receive it.

1480
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:21,599
Speaker 3: I got to say. And we've worked on this case

1481
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:23,479
Speaker 3: since day one. Frankly right.

1482
01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:27,120
Speaker 2: Three podcasts by the way, please listen to the podcast

1483
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:30,160
Speaker 2: now we go into this a little bit too. Idaho

1484
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:33,519
Speaker 2: Massacre Season three out now on iHeart and the doc

1485
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 2: on Peacock. I was really horrified that the general public

1486
01:19:39,880 --> 01:19:43,320
Speaker 2: was seeing these photographs with really out real notice. They

1487
01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:45,479
Speaker 2: were just popping up everywhere. It's the same thing about

1488
01:19:45,479 --> 01:19:49,080
Speaker 2: the Charlie Kirk assassination. There was no warning. We're just

1489
01:19:49,160 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 2: like suddenly, I'm in this little room and it's Maddie

1490
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 2: who I don't know, but I feel like I do.

1491
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:56,120
Speaker 2: And I think the whole country and world felt so

1492
01:19:56,200 --> 01:20:00,559
Speaker 2: connected to the victims, so seeing their their blood in

1493
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,360
Speaker 2: their rooms and it's coming up on your Instagram feed

1494
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:08,280
Speaker 2: or being released widely without there being some intention of

1495
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:11,520
Speaker 2: when you're going to see it, and if you're prepared

1496
01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:13,160
Speaker 2: to see it a litt alone.

1497
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:14,040
Speaker 3: Is it appropriate?

1498
01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:18,160
Speaker 2: I was kind of grossed out and scared many times,

1499
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:20,400
Speaker 2: and I think this is a really good judgment.

1500
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:22,040
Speaker 3: I think it's very valid.

1501
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:25,120
Speaker 5: I do the judge. I think put it really well,

1502
01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:29,160
Speaker 5: Judge Marshall. The fact remains, the murder investigation and the

1503
01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:33,280
Speaker 5: criminal case are closed. She wrote, Releasing these records will

1504
01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 5: have minor effect on those who continue to be perplexed

1505
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 5: by facts or fixated on unfounded conspiracies, whereas it will

1506
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 5: continue to have profound effects.

1507
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:45,920
Speaker 3: On the deceased loved ones.

1508
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:53,240
Speaker 5: And it's not worth it these children, really, let them

1509
01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:55,479
Speaker 5: rest in peace. I mean the family members. We have

1510
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:58,320
Speaker 5: heard them say afraid to open a computer or a

1511
01:20:58,320 --> 01:21:01,080
Speaker 5: phone because of what will pop out. I mean to

1512
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:04,799
Speaker 5: be tortured every day to let someone else who wants

1513
01:21:04,840 --> 01:21:09,800
Speaker 5: to bolster an unfounded conspiracy, right, It's really not worth it.

1514
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:12,800
Speaker 3: I think it's a great judgment. I I'm kind of

1515
01:21:12,840 --> 01:21:15,040
Speaker 3: in the middle here, and I'm not trying to be

1516
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:19,000
Speaker 3: you know, cag But on one hand, I do agree

1517
01:21:19,120 --> 01:21:21,400
Speaker 3: that you know this is going to keep the victim's

1518
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:25,439
Speaker 3: dignities intact, their privacy. You know this is horrific. What

1519
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:29,160
Speaker 3: happened to them. You know, it's horrible, but I do

1520
01:21:29,200 --> 01:21:33,439
Speaker 3: think it sins a dangerous slippery slope. This is now

1521
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:35,559
Speaker 3: going to be case law, right, this is going to

1522
01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:39,320
Speaker 3: be sighted in other cases. And you know, when you

1523
01:21:39,400 --> 01:21:44,439
Speaker 3: do things in the dark, shady things happen, right, And

1524
01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:47,599
Speaker 3: so for the future. I worry a little bit about

1525
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 3: the future because you know how many cases have been

1526
01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:55,000
Speaker 3: overturned by normal people or well, you know, people that

1527
01:21:55,040 --> 01:21:58,880
Speaker 3: are just lawyers, even that you know, get access to

1528
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:03,559
Speaker 3: case information unredacted, right, and are able to prove maybe

1529
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:07,839
Speaker 3: that this guy rotting on death row is innocent. And

1530
01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:11,840
Speaker 3: I worry that. Listen, I don't think. I don't think

1531
01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:16,280
Speaker 3: hiding the bodies of these poor victims is a bad idea.

1532
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:19,320
Speaker 3: I just worry about the future. I worry about it.

1533
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:22,080
Speaker 2: But wouldn't that preclude I'm saying general public is the

1534
01:22:22,200 --> 01:22:28,040
Speaker 2: ruling that legal appointees or prosecutors or anyone working on

1535
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:30,599
Speaker 2: a case, or even within a trial, or even if

1536
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:33,400
Speaker 2: you're investigating a crime. We do this all the time,

1537
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:35,800
Speaker 2: and there are foyers, and we have foyers, and we

1538
01:22:35,880 --> 01:22:39,600
Speaker 2: have to go through the proper channels to get autopsies

1539
01:22:39,640 --> 01:22:43,120
Speaker 2: and have information that is air quotes public. But there's

1540
01:22:43,160 --> 01:22:45,880
Speaker 2: a channel, and it's it's frankly not easy to get

1541
01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:49,400
Speaker 2: in some cases because and being intentional.

1542
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:52,840
Speaker 3: And you're right, I agree that lawyers representing somebody would

1543
01:22:52,840 --> 01:22:54,599
Speaker 3: be able to get the unredacted whatnot. But what about

1544
01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:56,439
Speaker 3: the regular person? What about like somebody like me?

1545
01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:00,799
Speaker 2: Right, I think you would go through the proper channels.

1546
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:02,360
Speaker 2: I think it's would.

1547
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:04,720
Speaker 3: Would be redacted for me, it would be redacted from me.

1548
01:23:04,760 --> 01:23:06,280
Speaker 3: I'm a member of the public. I have no interest

1549
01:23:06,320 --> 01:23:10,200
Speaker 3: in the case, right, But I maybe think maybe you know,

1550
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:13,360
Speaker 3: John Doe is innocent of this, and he's reached out

1551
01:23:13,400 --> 01:23:15,120
Speaker 3: to me because he saw me on a TV show

1552
01:23:15,200 --> 01:23:17,639
Speaker 3: or something. I don't know. I'm just throwing things fire. Yeah,

1553
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:19,920
Speaker 3: I hear what you're saying.

1554
01:23:20,120 --> 01:23:23,160
Speaker 5: But the first part of what you said, I personally

1555
01:23:23,200 --> 01:23:26,400
Speaker 5: feel so strongly. You know, it's said, yes, it protects

1556
01:23:26,439 --> 01:23:28,920
Speaker 5: their dignity, yes, absolutely.

1557
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:28,960
Speaker 3: Full stop.

1558
01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:33,720
Speaker 5: You know, other if there is such a let's look

1559
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:35,599
Speaker 5: into John Doe's case.

1560
01:23:36,439 --> 01:23:37,880
Speaker 3: Okay, then there's counsel.

1561
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:41,719
Speaker 5: And I know money's an issue and everything else, But yeah,

1562
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 5: I just I don't. I think it's too it's too

1563
01:23:44,160 --> 01:23:46,679
Speaker 5: risky that then any photo can be put out by

1564
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:51,800
Speaker 5: anyone at any time for people who are dead and

1565
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:52,720
Speaker 5: should rest.

1566
01:23:52,800 --> 01:23:56,280
Speaker 2: And who it's traumatizing. It's also traumatizing to everybody to

1567
01:23:56,320 --> 01:23:58,559
Speaker 2: just see it kind of randomly on your Instagram feed,

1568
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:00,679
Speaker 2: or suddenly he turned on your computer and you're seeing

1569
01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:03,160
Speaker 2: crime scene photos that you're you know, you're sitting at

1570
01:24:03,200 --> 01:24:06,080
Speaker 2: your desk starting your day at work, or you're underage, like.

1571
01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:08,560
Speaker 3: Kids are seeing this stuff. It's very traumatizing.

1572
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:11,960
Speaker 5: Or it's your sister or your cousin and you're sitting

1573
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:14,040
Speaker 5: there just trying to find a flower shop.

1574
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:16,719
Speaker 3: You know, you open your phone and there's their body.

1575
01:24:17,439 --> 01:24:20,639
Speaker 3: And I remember growing up, you know, my mom used

1576
01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:22,920
Speaker 3: to read these like true crime books and whatnot, and

1577
01:24:22,960 --> 01:24:25,160
Speaker 3: in the center of every book there would be like

1578
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:29,280
Speaker 3: these black and white pull out posters, and these posters were,

1579
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:34,639
Speaker 3: you know, literal crime scene photos of like horrific crime

1580
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 3: scenes what and but my mom was just prepared for that.

1581
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:41,799
Speaker 3: It's not like Instagram where she just exactly was prepared

1582
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:45,559
Speaker 3: for that right exactly. She knew that this was going

1583
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:47,600
Speaker 3: to be in there. Probably the reason she bought the

1584
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:50,000
Speaker 3: book Let's be Real, because my mom was insane like me.

1585
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:53,240
Speaker 3: But you know, like she was baby body in the

1586
01:24:53,280 --> 01:25:01,439
Speaker 3: missing Yeah, but you understand. I mean I definitely want

1587
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:05,160
Speaker 3: the victims like protected, and you know this. Please don't

1588
01:25:05,160 --> 01:25:07,040
Speaker 3: get me wrong. I just I do worry. It's a

1589
01:25:07,080 --> 01:25:09,439
Speaker 3: slippery slope. It starts when it becomes case law.

1590
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:12,799
Speaker 2: I mean, that's a fair point. It's hard to disagree

1591
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:14,920
Speaker 2: with that, nor do I want to. I see the point.

1592
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:17,519
Speaker 2: But your mom was being very intentional. She knew what

1593
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:20,200
Speaker 2: she was getting, she knew she was preparing herself to

1594
01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:23,719
Speaker 2: actually see it. I'm just concerned about the general psyche.

1595
01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:26,439
Speaker 2: We talked about this with you know, Jessica Kaplan last week,

1596
01:25:26,439 --> 01:25:30,720
Speaker 2: that we're all kind of being so emotionally inundated with

1597
01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:33,360
Speaker 2: almost just too much by the way we work in

1598
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:36,439
Speaker 2: the true crime field. So for me to say that

1599
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:37,479
Speaker 2: is saying a lot.

1600
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:37,760
Speaker 11: Right.

1601
01:25:37,880 --> 01:25:40,760
Speaker 3: So again, I know when I'm going.

1602
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:43,080
Speaker 2: To be prepared to see very difficult things, and I

1603
01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:46,040
Speaker 2: have to actually prepare myself for it. So to just

1604
01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:50,800
Speaker 2: see things so loosely aside from the family members or

1605
01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:53,879
Speaker 2: even in this case, the Coburger family, it's all so brutal.

1606
01:25:54,479 --> 01:25:56,840
Speaker 2: But I just also think for just all of us,

1607
01:25:56,880 --> 01:26:00,280
Speaker 2: it's like it's taken a toll in our mental health. Right.

1608
01:26:00,680 --> 01:26:04,080
Speaker 3: I was thinking about this, like, how would I how

1609
01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:06,680
Speaker 3: would like I'm dead, right, let's say, right, and I've

1610
01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:12,160
Speaker 3: been murdered. Would I want my murder photos studied? I would?

1611
01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:16,800
Speaker 3: I would too, I would, and I would not see

1612
01:26:17,160 --> 01:26:20,120
Speaker 3: That's what I was just going to say. Everybody's different, right, yea,

1613
01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:23,519
Speaker 3: So maybe we have to I think to err on

1614
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:27,640
Speaker 3: the side of caution. I think it's probably smarter to

1615
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:30,280
Speaker 3: say that they wouldn't want their stuff studied.

1616
01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:33,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's also a difference between wide release and

1617
01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:36,479
Speaker 2: specific release. Yes, I would want it study, but I

1618
01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:39,479
Speaker 2: wouldn't want everybody who's ever known me, or everybody in

1619
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:42,439
Speaker 2: the world having access to my death photo that's you know,

1620
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:45,040
Speaker 2: or just being distributed. It's not even like there's a

1621
01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:47,719
Speaker 2: request for it. It's not like in a special category.

1622
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:51,440
Speaker 2: It's just everywhere, all of a sudden, and that's pretty dehumanizing,

1623
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:55,360
Speaker 2: I think, and also kind of desensitizes all of us.

1624
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:59,600
Speaker 2: And I worry that as we all get desensitized, that's problematic.

1625
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:01,000
Speaker 3: And I debate this all the time.

1626
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:04,880
Speaker 2: If God forget anything happened to me, I get ready

1627
01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:05,320
Speaker 2: for the doc.

1628
01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:09,040
Speaker 3: You guys have better be first in line for your interviews.

1629
01:27:09,280 --> 01:27:10,320
Speaker 3: It'll be my first verse.

1630
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:12,599
Speaker 13: You're going to be like, yeah, you're gonna produce it,

1631
01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:15,200
Speaker 13: and you guys are gonna just, you know, take your tails.

1632
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:18,920
Speaker 13: Yeah exactly, let it rip, and everybody from high school,

1633
01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:21,360
Speaker 13: you know, like, yeah, I want to scream from the

1634
01:27:21,439 --> 01:27:24,360
Speaker 13: roof to start the podcast, Let's find the killer, Let's

1635
01:27:24,360 --> 01:27:28,559
Speaker 13: find justice. Right, But this is a line about le's

1636
01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:29,320
Speaker 13: about the justice.

1637
01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:29,519
Speaker 3: Right.

1638
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:31,760
Speaker 2: We already know the answer here. Why do we need

1639
01:27:31,800 --> 01:27:33,919
Speaker 2: to see these scenes again and again and again.

1640
01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:35,040
Speaker 3: And what can happen?

1641
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:39,800
Speaker 5: So in our research and interviews for In Cells, the

1642
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:44,759
Speaker 5: podcast we're working on, we spoke to wonderful woman Kim Devns.

1643
01:27:44,800 --> 01:27:47,640
Speaker 5: She is the mother of Bianca Devns. Just briefly, if

1644
01:27:47,680 --> 01:27:51,040
Speaker 5: you don't remember the case, Beyonca Devns was a seventeen

1645
01:27:51,160 --> 01:27:57,240
Speaker 5: year old girl who was murdered by an acquaintance. This

1646
01:27:57,400 --> 01:28:03,400
Speaker 5: acquaintance filmed the incident. He then took pictures of He

1647
01:28:03,439 --> 01:28:06,720
Speaker 5: took death pictures of her, posted it on discord, four Chan,

1648
01:28:06,840 --> 01:28:12,639
Speaker 5: et cetera. And this happened six years ago to this day.

1649
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:17,400
Speaker 5: Those pictures haunt pictures that are made in two memes

1650
01:28:17,600 --> 01:28:21,880
Speaker 5: wow and haunt the family. So I'm also body, I'm

1651
01:28:21,920 --> 01:28:25,920
Speaker 5: fired up because we're literally just coming off of that

1652
01:28:26,560 --> 01:28:29,439
Speaker 5: atrocity and seeing on the day of her murder because

1653
01:28:29,439 --> 01:28:32,240
Speaker 5: it was released that quick, a fifteen year old friend

1654
01:28:32,280 --> 01:28:33,720
Speaker 5: of the family found it.

1655
01:28:34,520 --> 01:28:39,960
Speaker 3: I listen, I get it. I mean, John Lynn, you know, like,

1656
01:28:40,600 --> 01:28:43,080
Speaker 3: I totally like I'm on board with that. I do

1657
01:28:43,240 --> 01:28:46,400
Speaker 3: want their dignity intact. And you know, for John Lyin

1658
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:50,559
Speaker 3: in his culture, it was so dehumanizing, and he's from China.

1659
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:54,799
Speaker 3: This was completely dehumanizing for him and his family. And

1660
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:57,559
Speaker 3: so I, I mean, I definitely understand this, you know,

1661
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:01,680
Speaker 3: I respect it to do. I don't want anybody to

1662
01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:03,960
Speaker 3: think I want them all released and out there. And

1663
01:29:04,240 --> 01:29:07,040
Speaker 3: you know the ether, I just worry a little bit.

1664
01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:09,960
Speaker 5: About the case lots going to say, I hear your point,

1665
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:12,160
Speaker 5: because I understand about the case law and that it

1666
01:29:12,200 --> 01:29:13,639
Speaker 5: can be a slippery slope.

1667
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:16,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, So I hear that maybe I'm wrong

1668
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:18,800
Speaker 3: about this, Like, let us know if you have other

1669
01:29:19,240 --> 01:29:22,559
Speaker 3: legal knowledge about the Hey, body, you are wrong. This

1670
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:24,200
Speaker 3: is not going to set case lots only going to

1671
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:27,080
Speaker 3: be happening in Idaho or or only in this county.

1672
01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:29,120
Speaker 3: Let us know. Eighty eight thirty one crime. I'd love

1673
01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:31,519
Speaker 3: to hear from you. You guys will be so good

1674
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:35,200
Speaker 3: in the documentary. Oh stop it, you're not getting murdered.

1675
01:29:36,360 --> 01:29:43,000
Speaker 3: Don't say that I suggesting that. Okay, I thought you

1676
01:29:43,040 --> 01:29:45,559
Speaker 3: were saying he'll do in the documentary about my mother.

1677
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:48,839
Speaker 3: But by the way, you guys would also solve the murder.

1678
01:29:48,920 --> 01:29:50,559
Speaker 3: So I know that I'm in safe hands, so it

1679
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:51,280
Speaker 3: would never happen.

1680
01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:54,920
Speaker 9: I've said that the body and Joseph Scott Morgan. I'm like,

1681
01:29:54,960 --> 01:29:57,719
Speaker 9: if anything the faris happens to me, can you oversee

1682
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:00,519
Speaker 9: the investigation and have Joseph do the forensics like.

1683
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:09,479
Speaker 2: We got your Courtney, and I don't count.

1684
01:30:08,720 --> 01:30:10,120
Speaker 3: Doing my plate chops.

1685
01:30:10,680 --> 01:30:13,559
Speaker 9: I know what's all this whole team, it'll be solved

1686
01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:14,639
Speaker 9: within hours.

1687
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:17,479
Speaker 3: And offended Courtney. I know.

1688
01:30:20,040 --> 01:30:28,040
Speaker 13: Yeah, we're just gonna got.

1689
01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:29,639
Speaker 3: From the dog. I would actually love.

1690
01:30:32,600 --> 01:30:32,640
Speaker 7: No.

1691
01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:38,000
Speaker 5: I would love to bring someone else into this conversation,

1692
01:30:38,200 --> 01:30:39,400
Speaker 5: give us a talk back.

1693
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:45,120
Speaker 12: I stand from Virginia, just calling. Not really anything pertinent

1694
01:30:45,160 --> 01:30:48,240
Speaker 12: to a particular story, but I just wanted to say

1695
01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:53,680
Speaker 12: I've noticed has been a lot more recently and just

1696
01:30:53,720 --> 01:30:56,400
Speaker 12: wanted to say I love his contribution.

1697
01:30:56,880 --> 01:31:00,000
Speaker 3: He is like the cherry on top to your perfect tree.

1698
01:31:00,640 --> 01:31:08,719
Speaker 3: We need shirt Yay, Charlie, he's the Charlie of our angels. Yes,

1699
01:31:09,200 --> 01:31:12,599
Speaker 3: he vitually Charlie. It's so great.

1700
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:15,200
Speaker 9: And I don't know anyone in Virginia, so I did

1701
01:31:15,240 --> 01:31:16,320
Speaker 9: not pay anyone to do that.

1702
01:31:16,400 --> 01:31:16,760
Speaker 3: I know.

1703
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:20,200
Speaker 5: We knew about this and and made sure that the

1704
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:22,120
Speaker 5: guys Adam and Sam would play.

1705
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:27,400
Speaker 3: Jar and a Sunday together.

1706
01:31:27,479 --> 01:31:30,800
Speaker 9: We make the perfect dessert treat because all of us

1707
01:31:30,840 --> 01:31:31,960
Speaker 9: combined and.

1708
01:31:32,120 --> 01:31:35,439
Speaker 5: Your smile, it's like a Crest commercial every uh really

1709
01:31:35,479 --> 01:31:36,960
Speaker 5: every days.

1710
01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:40,200
Speaker 9: Like we're all like every all these compliments.

1711
01:31:39,760 --> 01:31:43,439
Speaker 3: I know, all the club. Still, this Wicked Wednesday is

1712
01:31:43,479 --> 01:31:46,320
Speaker 3: kind of wonderful. Do you guys like that? Do you

1713
01:31:46,320 --> 01:31:50,679
Speaker 3: guys like that Wicked Wednesday? That Wicked Wednesday fun? I'm

1714
01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:54,439
Speaker 3: into it. Halloween, Yeah, we're going to get Halloween sound effects.

1715
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:56,880
Speaker 3: We're going to do a whole Halloween thing.

1716
01:31:57,160 --> 01:31:59,559
Speaker 9: So there's a lot coming up with that. So I'm

1717
01:31:59,560 --> 01:32:03,519
Speaker 9: planning out and I'm planning out for tomorrow too, because

1718
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:07,439
Speaker 9: tomorrow Matthew Russell with Inner City Press, he's going to

1719
01:32:07,479 --> 01:32:10,559
Speaker 9: be joining us to talk about Diddy. He's been following

1720
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:13,040
Speaker 9: it all so closely, yes, and he's got a lot

1721
01:32:13,080 --> 01:32:14,800
Speaker 9: of inside scoop, so he's great.

1722
01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:17,479
Speaker 3: It's going to be a good, good one great.

1723
01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:21,800
Speaker 2: Wow, this was a great fun night as always with you.

1724
01:32:21,880 --> 01:32:24,000
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful that we get to be together and

1725
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:26,800
Speaker 2: thank you for listening. We'll be back tomorrow. Tune in.

1726
01:32:27,240 --> 01:32:30,120
Speaker 2: Lots to discuss in the Epstein and Diddy cases. So

1727
01:32:31,200 --> 01:32:32,800
Speaker 2: major unpack happening.

1728
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:36,760
Speaker 3: There be good or be good at it. God done

1729
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:49,440
Speaker 3: done Dot, good night everyone. Stay safe.