1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Rolling Stone's five Hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: based on Rolling Stones hugely popular, influential and sometimes controversialist. 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 2: I'm Britney Spanis and. 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 3: I'm Rob Sheffield. We're here to shed light on the 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 3: greatest songs ever made and discover what makes them so great. 6 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: We have a very important songwriter and producer you talk 7 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: about today very special episode. We'll be discussing Max Martin 8 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: and his contributions to the five hundred Greatest Songs list, 9 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: of which he has four songs on the list. There 10 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: is Backsheet Boys, I Want It That Way and Taylor 11 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: Swift's Blank Space. But today we're going to talk very 12 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,919 Speaker 1: specifically about the song Baby One More Time by Britney Spears. 13 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: I mean there are so many artists on the list 14 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: that he has worked with in different capacities. I mean 15 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: there is very there are very few pop artists who 16 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: have not had a session in Sweden with Max Martin 17 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: and his kind of group of songwriters and producers that 18 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: he works with. Of course, he's worked with Ariana Grande 19 00:00:55,480 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: and Adele, Backstroop Boys, Robin Slain, Dion and sing Demi Lovado, 20 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: Selena Gomez, Perry Katie Perry think. I mean, it's like 21 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: it's a big deal if you don't If you don't 22 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: work with Max, it's almost as big of a story 23 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: to not work with him. 24 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 3: It's like, what's wrong with you if you don't? You know? 25 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: And he's had twenty five number one hits that he 26 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: has written or produced or both, and he has five Grammys. 27 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: His first Grammy ever didn't come until he worked with 28 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift. But I mean that kind of figures into 29 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: a lot of what we'll probably talk about a lot 30 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: of the music that he's worked on and how we're. 31 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 2: Giving it to due as as the years go by. 32 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: And one of the fun facts about Max I learned 33 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: while researching this is that he was in a hair 34 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: metal band that kicked off his career called It's Alive. 35 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: I actually had no idea that that was the background. 36 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 2: Of how he was originally signed. 37 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: And then he ended up starting to work on Dennis 38 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: Pop's label, and Dennis Pop took him under his wing 39 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: because they realized he had this, you know, brilliant pop mind, 40 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: which was very smart. And then lo and behold, the 41 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: Backstreet Boys come come call, and that's when Max gets 42 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: his really big break as a pop songwriter is working 43 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: with the Backstreet Boys on their self toile debut. In 44 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, he worked on Quit Playing Games with 45 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: My Heart, which hit number two on the Hot one 46 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: hundred and was a big moment for both Backstory Boys 47 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: Max Martin for pop music and kind of set the 48 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: tone for years to come to this day. 49 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 3: Unbelievable and Max Martin, what was he like twenty fourth that, yes, 50 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 3: was barely older than the Backstreet Boys that the stereotype is, 51 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 3: you know, the young hungry boy band and then the 52 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 3: manipulatives Fengali figure. He was like just their age. It's 53 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 3: it's crazy how young he was when he began this 54 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 3: whole yeah, Swedish hair metal as disco revolution that took 55 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 3: over the. 56 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: Pop world, and the Backstor Boys had their own Spenglly 57 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: to worry about it. 58 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 2: Sax Martin didn't need to add to that. 59 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 3: He was literally the least to their. 60 00:02:55,080 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: Problems and the placement of the songs that are on 61 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: the list. We have blank Space at three fifty seven, 62 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: which we have a whole episode we're gonna talk about 63 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: that song because of course we have to Backstreet Boys. 64 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: I want that way comes in at two forty, Britney 65 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: Spears's Baby One More Time comes in at two o five, 66 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 1: and Kelly Clarksonson she began clock cent at number ninety 67 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: three hits the top one hundred. 68 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 3: I guess I'm curious since you go way way back, yeah, 69 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 3: with like the pop artists. Yeah, that he began with. 70 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 3: What was your sort of Max Martin origin story? 71 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: It was definitely Backstreet Boys. I think, like what's great 72 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: about the that late nineties pop boom that Max was 73 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: so ingratiated and was that that was when I was 74 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: six to nine, you know, like this was the time 75 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: when I was really formulating my own personality and taste 76 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: in music. 77 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 3: Amazing. Well, that the whole Carson TRL era unthinkable without 78 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 3: Max Martin. Yeah, who everybody got to know his name 79 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 3: because he was on so many hits. But it's wild 80 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 3: that he was such a behind the scenes personality. 81 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: It still is. 82 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he really he is very press shay. He 83 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: doesn't talk about his work very much, very rarely, I 84 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: mean doesn't do interviews at all, as much as he's 85 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: such a major presence, Like that is a name brand 86 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: person of someone that like everyone knows Max Martin. 87 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 2: If you love pop music. 88 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: You know that name, and you're very familiar with it. 89 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: So he's like such a large, larger than life presence 90 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: in pop music, but he still kind of stays very 91 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: silent and stays behind the scenes and stays away from 92 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: it and really lets the artist kind of build that 93 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 1: narrative around the songs and around who they are and 94 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: kind of how they fit into it. And you know, 95 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: every once in a while we will get the kind of 96 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: glimpses into his creative process from the artist talking about it. 97 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: But for the most parts, he's just very He kind 98 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: of just stays out minds his business, and that's why 99 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: he writes great pop songs. 100 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 2: He minds his business absolutely. 101 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 3: He had never had any interest at all and being 102 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 3: a celebrity producer. He just he didn't want anybody to 103 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 3: know his face or his voice or his ideas. Yeah, 104 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 3: he was always about the artist in the cell and I. 105 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: Mean all the artists that he works with and was 106 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: such a part of their careers. And I mean both 107 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: in terms of the star making moments that he's been 108 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: a huge part of, but also for the shifts in 109 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: people's own sort of musical sounds, in their own kind 110 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: of careers. He's been such a big part of every 111 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: turning point for a lot of the biggest names in 112 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: pop music over the last nearly three decades that he's 113 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: been working. All these songs speak so much for themselves, 114 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: so you don't really need him to weigh in, even 115 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: though obviously we are nerdy about that and would love 116 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: to hear what would love to hear him talk about 117 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: that process and things like that. But yeah, I mean, 118 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: those songs so speak for themselves and change pop music 119 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: for I mean again, we still are hearing the reverberations 120 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: of what he started to do with the Backstreet Boys 121 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: and on today. 122 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 2: Everyone tries to get that. 123 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 3: Sound absolutely and has never sounded dated. None of these 124 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 3: songs sound like oldies. Yeah, the Backstreet Boys songs, it's 125 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 3: funny that those are a little before Britney blew Up, 126 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 3: Britney Spears the other Brittany. But it's it's wild that 127 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 3: even then it was such a distinctive sound, like you 128 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 3: were a fan, you were right on the right in 129 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 3: on the ground floor with the Backstreet Boys. 130 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it so just the combination of genres. Obviously, 131 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: there's so much of that euro pop eurodance sound that 132 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: was taking over the clubs in the nineties and was 133 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: such a big part of dance music and kind of 134 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: the underground music of that time. But there's so much 135 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: of that R and B sound because all of these 136 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: bands and these artists who were singing his songs were 137 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: such big fans of the R and B music of 138 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: the time. Backstreet Boys were imitating New Edition, and Britney 139 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: Spears is such a fan of Mariah and Janet and 140 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: every you know, just any and Whitney Houston and every 141 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: R and B singer of the of the nineties. So 142 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: you kind of hear that so much in the melodies 143 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: that he's doing, and like the actual kind of beats 144 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: are are so Euro dancing and kind of like Euro 145 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: trashy kind of dance music, which is great something I 146 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: love a lot. And yeah, a little bit of New 147 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: Jack Swing and some of the songs, and especially in 148 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: the ballads, and so it's kind of an interesting fusion 149 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: that he was playing with that worked really well because 150 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: it meshed so much with what these artists were wanting 151 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: to do musically anyway, like who they were as vocalists, 152 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: and let that shine on a lot of these songs. 153 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, and of course, baby One More Time with Britney Spears. 154 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 3: I think that's probably when people started to say, Okay, 155 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 3: there's this producer in Stockholm who's got this sound, because 156 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 3: the Backstreet Boys songs they were huge, but the fact 157 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 3: that you know, Britney Spears came out of nowhere with 158 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 3: this just absolutely massive song. I mean that the euro 159 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 3: pop and R and B mentioned, but also so much 160 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 3: metal in his production style, which is why it's so 161 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 3: wild what you say about his Swedish hair metal roots, 162 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 3: because there really is that apocalyptic bam bam bam and. 163 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: Everything he it nods to the eighties without feeling overtly 164 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: eighties in a lot of ways. All the songs are 165 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: very like bombastic and very like big, which is great 166 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: Rolling Stone. 167 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 3: When we did our list of the greatest debut singles 168 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 3: of all time, maybe One More Time was an easy 169 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 3: pick for number one. It's the perfect example of a 170 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 3: song that comes out of nowhere and introduces not just 171 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 3: a new artist, but a new aesthetic and a new 172 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 3: approach to the sonic architecture pop music. And you definitely 173 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 3: remember where you were the first time you heard that song. Yeah, 174 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 3: you probably said, what the hell is this? 175 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 2: Do you remember the first time you heard it? 176 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 3: Yes, I do. It was December ninety eight and it 177 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 3: was that song and it was hearing it on MTV 178 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 3: and it sounded so alien, so robotic, which was a 179 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 3: really bizarrely distinctive thing about the Max Martin sound. And 180 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 3: it's where the hell is this song coming from? And 181 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 3: I thought, I cannot tell where this singer is from 182 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 3: on the planet, like it might be euro might be US, 183 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 3: but it could be anywhere. And I said, I cannot 184 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 3: tell if this singer is old or young. I can't 185 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 3: tell anything. It's just this amazing, bombastic, like you said, thunderous, 186 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 3: apocalyptic kind of sound. It was mind blowing to hear 187 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 3: it for the first time and realized, this is something 188 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 3: we never heard anything that sounded. 189 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 2: Like this before. 190 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I really love a detail that Brittany had given 191 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: around that time of wanting to imitate soft cells, tainted love, yeah, 192 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: and vocal. 193 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 3: That was when I interviewed it, and I had so 194 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 3: many questions about that song, and she said, yeah, I 195 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 3: wanted to get that tainted love sound. And she said, like, 196 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 3: that's what I was going for, that sort of new 197 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 3: wave sound, And she said, I wanted my voice to 198 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 3: sound like that. So she said, I didn't want to 199 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 3: get any sleep, so I stayed up, stayed out very 200 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 3: late the night before, and she said, I kept telling myself, Brittany, 201 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 3: don't get any sleep, because you want that raspyat rowl 202 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 3: in your voice. She definitely got that. 203 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 2: It works so well on it. 204 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 3: It sure does. Soft Cell must have been so honored. 205 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: Thinking about how every pop star has tried to imitate 206 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: that over the years is so incredible, Like that is 207 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: a song that everyone wants a baby one more time 208 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: moment when they come out the gate, of course, and 209 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: like they want that. 210 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 2: You know, it's a big pop moment. But there's no 211 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 2: one else who could. 212 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: Have delivered it the way that Britney Spears had done, 213 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: because even like Max had offered it to Backstreet Boys 214 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: at first and TLC and they had been sort of 215 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: possibly going to be the one singing that song and 216 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: then both rejected it, and then it went to Britney Spears, 217 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: who loved it immediately. 218 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I firmly believe that if either of those artists 219 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 3: had recorded the song, Britney's version is still the one 220 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,319 Speaker 3: we would know, it would have been just as big 221 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 3: because it was made for her, and she for it. 222 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 3: It's so funny to think of TLC, who were adults, yeah, 223 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 3: singing the song. It's like, no, this isn't a song 224 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 3: for adult veterans to sing. This is a song for 225 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 3: a new voice who's got something to say say musically, 226 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 3: sonically and in every way. 227 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. 228 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: The only regret about that is that I wish I 229 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: could hear Left Eyes maybe one more time. 230 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 3: First, well, you could definitely tell that, you know that 231 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 3: the TLC vocal influence. Yeah, but yeah, would have been 232 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 3: all wrong for a singer, is you know? I mean 233 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 3: Tea Boss was always super smart sounding singer. She never 234 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 3: came on naive or confused. She was always super in control. 235 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 3: It's something that just defines her power as a vocalist. 236 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: It just feels so perfectly in tune with everything that 237 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: Brittany loved and was kind of already a fan of 238 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: in music, and then also kind of helped mold this 239 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 1: this like important phase of her career and kind of 240 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: the way that we were introduced her in the video 241 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: of course, like that was her idea to kind of 242 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: be like, I'm a teenager, I'm singing for other teenagers. 243 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to be in high school where she went 244 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: to the high school where they filmed Grease as a 245 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: big Grease fan that she was, and did that. I mean, 246 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: it just it feels like so perfectly, like such a 247 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: perfect teen idol pop moment in that way. That album 248 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: just blew up so quickly, and so it's kind of 249 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: I mean, the song itself blew up so quickly. So 250 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to even think of a time 251 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: where it wasn't everyone that I knew knew of Britney 252 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: Spears or had like an opinion on her or had 253 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: you know, were even just like arguing about like their 254 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: favorite Brittany songs and kind of all this, you know, 255 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: all that stuff. But yeah, it's kind of it's tough 256 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: to imagine a time before like Brittany was such a 257 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: part of my own listening habits and of my own 258 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: kind of music taste and for all, like all the 259 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: acts that again like Max is so integral part part 260 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: of their careers is Backshitt Boys and Sync and Brittany 261 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: and those are all artists that just immediately became in heavy. 262 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 3: Rotation for absolutely. 263 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: And next up we will be joined by Rolling Stone 264 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: senior writer Brian Hyatt. We're here with senior writer Rolling Stone, 265 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: Brian Hyatt. Thank you so much for joining. 266 00:12:58,600 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 4: Us, Thank you for having me. 267 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 2: I know you're a big. 268 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 1: Max fan, and you're a big Sabe one more time. 269 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 2: Fan for sure. 270 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: You've spoken with so many artists and especially artists that 271 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: have some relationship with Max, Right, what do you think 272 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 1: it is about him that that keeps beyond of course 273 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: the obvious of he has so many hits under his belt, 274 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: so twenty five number one singles, things like that, like 275 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 1: why do people still call Max Martin above all else 276 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: to make that special moment in their. 277 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 4: Career, say that he sort of cracked the mathematical code 278 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 4: to writing pop songs, And then when you ask him 279 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 4: to explain that, they start to and nothing they ever 280 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 4: say really makes sense to me. It has to do 281 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 4: with I think some of it has to do with 282 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 4: the amount of repetition of bits of the melody. You know, 283 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 4: you repeat this bit twice, but then change it, change 284 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 4: one note the third time. There's stuff like that. There's 285 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 4: stuff that has to do with the syllables and thus 286 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 4: the rhythm of the you know, the rhythm of the melody. 287 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 4: He occasionally doesn't interviews but he doesn't do interviews with 288 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 4: people who know how this stuff works, who can be like, 289 00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 4: you know, basically, what do you mean? It's a scientific 290 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 4: approach A and then belt. The other thing is that, weirdly, 291 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 4: like a lot of pop since like ninety eight or so, 292 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 4: it's really bringing in so many rock influences into what 293 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 4: we're calling pop, and he's he was a big part 294 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 4: of starting that as well. He was kind of a 295 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 4: hair metal fan. He's a Springsteen fan. You can hear 296 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 4: it on a Baby One More Time. You can hear 297 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 4: it on Oops I Did It Again, which was tragically 298 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 4: omitted from our list, but you know, also one of 299 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 4: the greatest songs of all time. It's like they can 300 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 4: so easily just take out the synth and change them 301 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 4: into heavy guitars and you have rocks on which of 302 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 4: course so many people did right. The ironic and then 303 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 4: suddenly not ironic cover of Baby One More Time was 304 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 4: such a phenomenon, as you remember, at the for indie 305 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:44,239 Speaker 4: bands at the time. 306 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 2: The bullying for super version is very good. 307 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 4: There was a Travis version, there was who else? 308 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 3: Who else? Thompson did a great version, a shockingly great version. 309 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 4: That was when he was doing the entire history of 310 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 4: popular music from like fifteen hundred to that, right, Yeah, 311 00:14:58,240 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 4: millennium pop. 312 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, it ended with Baby One More Time. It like 313 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 3: began with like, you know, medieval ballads. And there's something 314 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 3: kind of beautiful about that because like these are two 315 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 3: allergic folk songs. They traveled, they have weird lives. 316 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 4: He thus proved, like as as they say in the Matrix, 317 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 4: that nineteen ninety nine was the peak moment of your 318 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 4: human civilization. So that that's like when a thousand years 319 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 4: of pop music peaked with Baby One More Time? And 320 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 4: there really was We've had all this nice music since then, 321 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 4: but was there really any more need for songs after 322 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 4: Baby One More Time? 323 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 2: I just stopped right there. 324 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 3: Do you have a favorite Max Martin song? 325 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 4: I mean the ones on the list? I mean I 326 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 4: want it that way? Is I like Baby One More Time? 327 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 4: The record, the recording better, but I want it that way. 328 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 4: It's just such an impeccable song. It might very well 329 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 4: be that one, And we all have a soft spot 330 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 4: for It's My Life by a Bun Jovie. 331 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: Great Hamy and Gina's sequel. 332 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 4: You know. One of the things that was so interesting 333 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 4: about that is it was Max returning just as I 334 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 4: was saying the fact that really he was kind of 335 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 4: right bon Jovi's songs, but like with the synth dress up, 336 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 4: you know, the boy band or teen pop dress up. 337 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 4: But then he just straight up went back into the 338 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 4: Bonjobe's song and proved that the formula was so durable. 339 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 4: Both that and since she'd been gone again, does the 340 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 4: same thing that is my life does? It takes the 341 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 4: implicit rock and makes it explicit. 342 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 343 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 4: I love the way Tyler Swift used him, which is 344 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 4: she kind of worked with him and learned everything he 345 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 4: had to teach, and then she's like thank you, and 346 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 4: then went on to do it without him, And then 347 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 4: I think that she's one of the only artists who 348 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 4: did it that way. 349 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 3: I think that that also says a lot about her. 350 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, what were your favorite songs? Rob of 351 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 2: the Maximartin Cannon. 352 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 3: Well, if I had to choose, and I do at 353 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 3: this moment, my three would be Avril Levine's greatest song ever, 354 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 3: What the Hell from twenty eleven, Wow, her midlife crisis, 355 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 3: Live in her Life thirty something post divorce. Avril absolutely 356 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 3: perfect song. Every time I hear it, I think this 357 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 3: is the song that will outlive all the other ever 358 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 3: Lavine songs, and it's such a bop. The Max Martiness 359 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 3: of it is so huge, but he's as always, he's 360 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,239 Speaker 3: really great at listening to these artists and what their 361 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 3: voices and what they're good at, and just as he did. 362 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 3: I think it's her version of bon Jovies, It's My Life, 363 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 3: and then a song that I know we all love, 364 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 3: Selena Gomez Hands to Myself. I think it proves, if 365 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 3: I may use this expression, that Max Martin is the 366 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 3: metaphorical Gin and Juice and Taylor Swift's New Romantics Yeah, 367 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 3: which to me is the culmination for both of their careers. 368 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 3: This is such a perfect peak for them to arrive at. 369 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 1: I mean, even on a song like I Feel Like 370 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: break Free, I always think of as sort of like 371 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: peak kind of recent years Max Martin, where it is 372 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: sort of that good kind of weird lyricism, that very 373 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,479 Speaker 1: like kind of swedishisms that are in there, where you're like, 374 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: now I've become who I really are and you're like, 375 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: this is such like a Britney Spears like ninety nine line, that's. 376 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 3: Who writes songs in English for so many decades and 377 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 3: refuse to learn. 378 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 2: But it's a great line. It works so so great. 379 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 1: Like now I become who I really are, Like that's 380 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: stuck in my head. 381 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 3: Constantly, Like again, we don't know who did what, but 382 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 3: I refuse to believe Max Martin didn't write those himself 383 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 3: because you look at you know, I want it that way. 384 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 3: And it's mind blowing that a song impeccable, like you said, 385 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 3: and a song that's a standard and a classic that 386 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 3: makes almost no sense. Almost no phrase of the song 387 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 3: connects with any other phrase of the song. 388 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: I think, like I always really love how kind of 389 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 1: casualness is it? Like there is something that feels very 390 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: like he just like wrote down a phone conversation he 391 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: had with like an X like set five seconds before 392 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: he started writing the song. 393 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's really amazing when you think of how many 394 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 3: conversations begin here's the thing and that song. Yeah, I mean, 395 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 3: so many genius things about that song, but that it 396 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 3: actually uses that to begin a conversation in a song. 397 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that song wasn't originally supposed to go 398 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: to Clor Clarkson either, as supposed to. It was originally 399 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: pink and then Hillary Duff really were the other two 400 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: who almost got that song, I had no idea. I mean, Pink, 401 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: you know, obviously her and Max have had a very long, 402 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: ongoing collaborative relationship. They've worked on a ton of music 403 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 1: together to this day, so that makes sense. But of 404 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 1: course Breakaway is I would say Kelly's classic album. Of course, 405 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: this is an album that really really helps her solidify 406 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 1: who she is as a pop star. And I mean 407 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 1: Misindependent was kind of a good precursor to what she 408 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: would end up doing on like Breakaway and Misindependent from 409 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: the Thankful era kind of helped maybe push her towards 410 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: this like pop rock moment. But since You've been gone 411 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: as the as a second single from that being this 412 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: like big, boisterous, like kind of like pop punky, pop 413 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: rocky kind of moment from her with like these giant 414 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: guitars and like this like booming voice that she has 415 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: that works so well over it. I mean, there's no 416 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: one else that can sing that song in the same 417 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: way with maybe one more time, Like you know, even 418 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: with the potential other artists who were going to sing 419 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: that song first, it just makes so much sense with 420 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: who ended up with it that I feel, no, no 421 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: remorse in Losing a pink version of Since You've Been Gone. 422 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 3: You know totally and such a great moment where this 423 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 3: sort of this whole like school of New York meet 424 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 3: Me in the Bathroom era, like punk rock was finding 425 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 3: it's it's pop outlets, and that this is so perfect 426 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 3: just even that they get that perfect drum sound from 427 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 3: fabmready of The Strokes, the sort of The Strokes hard 428 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 3: to explain drum sound, and the way it becomes the yeah, 429 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 3: yeah yeah song, and the turnaround when it's exactly Brian 430 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 3: Chase's drum sound, and that all these precise fan details 431 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 3: are worked so perfectly into this song. But you don't 432 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 3: have to know any of those references to respond to 433 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 3: the song. It's it's as timeless as a as a 434 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 3: breakup song can be. Yeah, I'm so moving. 435 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: Off, And I mean the yaas do not like Since 436 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: You've Been Gone very much. 437 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 3: Just feel somewhere in their hearts. Beyonce and hold Up 438 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 3: must have opened them up to the idea of like 439 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 3: their pop presence well and maps you know, another one 440 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 3: of the greatest yeah of the century. But it's wild 441 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 3: that so typical of Max Martin's genius to find stuff 442 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 3: to use everywhere in pop music. 443 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I thought it fascinating that, like in the 444 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: twenty ten version of the list, that kind of interim 445 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: revamp that happened between the twenty four list and the 446 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one list, Since You've Been Gone was ended 447 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: up being added to that. And I mean, of course 448 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 1: that meant that within the few years I had been 449 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: At had already been seen kind of immediately as one 450 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: of the best songs that Max Martin had made thus far. 451 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: But I'm curious, like what you think in a future 452 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: revamp of the list will be. It still feels kind 453 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: of like a low number of his songs are represented 454 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 1: on the list, But yeah. 455 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 4: That seems like a I mean, I think Rob has 456 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 4: a lot of later period candidates. 457 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 3: That song that I'm sure we all love. So what 458 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 3: the Pink song? 459 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 4: To me? 460 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 3: It's funny that Pink has so many classics, but the 461 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 3: Pink Maxim Martin collaborations are so unique for both of them, 462 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 3: They really bring something out of each other. Yeah, so 463 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,719 Speaker 3: Wet to me is like the pinnacle for what that 464 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 3: collaboration achieves in terms of attitude and sound and humor 465 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 3: and rage and everything. 466 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, in terms of other Max songs that should probably 467 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,199 Speaker 1: or hopefully will make the list in the future, Like, 468 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: there are very few boy band songs on the list, 469 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: and of course I want that ways on there. It's 470 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: going to be Me another song that I was I 471 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: was kind of surprised that we didn't have it so 472 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: good that and sync representation on the list at all, 473 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: but especially It's going to Be Me. 474 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 3: Another Backstreet Boys song that no way reminds me of 475 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 3: any Britney Spears song. Is Larger than Life. Yeah, Yeah, 476 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 3: phenomenal song. 477 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, and everybody that synth on Everybody is so like 478 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: the you know, the beat on that is so good. 479 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 3: I remember it was a huge moment in terms of 480 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 3: Max Martin becoming a recognized brand. When Britney's You Drive 481 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 3: Me Crazy and the backs Your Boys larger than Life 482 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 3: where hits it around the same time, people are like, 483 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 3: I'm seeing a pattern here. But Larger than Life is 484 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 3: such a perfect I mean, in so many ways, it's 485 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 3: the ultimate boy band tribute to the audience. Yeah, and 486 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 3: it's such a fantastic, bombastic song in every way. 487 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 488 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, And Brian mentioned oops I did again too earlier 489 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: in that song. Again, another another Britney classic that could 490 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: very easily make a future. 491 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 3: Yes of the list. 492 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 4: Yes, I thought the old lady put it at the 493 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 4: bottom of the ocean. Speaking of which, nothing was more confusing, 494 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 4: I'm sure to many kids than Backstreets Back all right, 495 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 4: when Backstreet Boys was to Americans at that point a 496 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 4: new act. Obviously they've been had a certain amount of 497 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 4: bigness in Europe, but it was one of those things 498 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 4: where I think it almost had a sort of inception 499 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,640 Speaker 4: effect on people would be like like like like that, 500 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 4: the sort of the Simpsons boy band, with the subliminal 501 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 4: messages like well they're back. I mean, I guess I 502 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 4: already liked them. I think that's a big secret. 503 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 2: To this success so much. 504 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 3: How did I miss the whole Backstreet era? A phase 505 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,719 Speaker 3: of Max Martin's that that we have to give up 506 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 3: to because I know we all like feel deeply about this, 507 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 3: but Katie Perry's yeh star making collaborations with me. 508 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: I mean again, Katie Perry not being on the list 509 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: is a travesty. 510 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 2: But that's neither here nor there. I have my own we. 511 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 3: Have to insert a Brittany pop ed about. 512 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: Yes, I mean, there's there was a lot of a 513 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: lot of things that went wrong, But at the end 514 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: of the day, we shouldn't be ignoring Teenage Dream or One. 515 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: Of the Boys as classic albums. 516 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: But I think because of what Max has been associated with, 517 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 1: which was so much of this pop movement at the 518 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: end of the nineties and early two thousands, pop movement 519 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: that was seen as very manufactured and these like artists 520 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: that versus been galid and these artists who like didn't 521 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: have agency and things like that or creative input. I 522 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: do think that's obviously affected the way that people remember 523 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: these songs right and remember and kind of give respect 524 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: and due to what was created during that time. And 525 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: I think, you know, we're seeing a little bit more 526 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: of Max Martin as a songwriter and producer kind of 527 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: get a little bit more respect as years go on. 528 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: And I mean there is music's being celebrated on Broadway, 529 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: the musical Musical and Julia, which is I don't know 530 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: if either guys have seen that wacky time. I'm wondering, 531 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: do you do you guys think that there's still even 532 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: more due for him to be paid over the years 533 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: as a songwriter producer, Like do you think that we 534 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 1: still have kind of lost a little bit of that. 535 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: People really respecting his contributions to pop music, or do 536 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: you think it's been properly bestowed upon him. 537 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 3: I think as time goes by, his legend will just 538 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 3: rise because none of these songs. Yeah, you know, none 539 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 3: of them are dated, none of them are oldies. These 540 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 3: are all songs that none of us would be surprised 541 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 3: to hear on the radio today. 542 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, like I said, I feel like those covers, there 543 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 4: was a striking sort of acknowledgment from many people in 544 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 4: this sort of indie world, in the rock world and 545 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 4: the singer songwriter world, that well, these songs are really 546 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 4: well written. Like right away, there was sort of this, 547 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 4: like I said, all those covers and it was immediate, 548 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 4: it was and it was there were all these acoustic 549 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 4: covers of Baby One More Time, which didn't happen with 550 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 4: like any random pop song, and it didn't happen with 551 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 4: ones that it should have, Like you know, I mean, 552 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 4: where's the love for all those great Ashley Simpsons songs, 553 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 4: Like no indie band's ever covered them to this day. 554 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 4: So it doesn't always happen. It's some you know, there's 555 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 4: often that barrier. But something about this there's a level 556 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 4: of craft I think that you can have where it's 557 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 4: just it overcomes those kind of genre prejudices. 558 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 3: So I feel like kind of. 559 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 4: Since the beginning, at least in maybe some critics, for sure, 560 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 4: are a number of critics, and then definitely like musicians, 561 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 4: songwriters were like, whoa this guy is like and that's 562 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 4: sort of why even you know, people who were songwriters, 563 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 4: like you know, like the Great Bad Job, you know, 564 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 4: but like you Bunjovi, who was a songwriter. I mean, 565 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 4: he was like, I have to work with this guy 566 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,719 Speaker 4: because I you know, he's cracked something, and you do 567 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 4: hear about people studying who aren't necessarily in the pop 568 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 4: work kind of studying that melodic math and trying it. 569 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 3: So I think he's got that love. 570 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 4: Couldn't have more love for musicians and songwriters already, And 571 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 4: then I think critics have mostly caught up. So I 572 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 4: think he's you know, he's an absolute legend already for sure. 573 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much, Brian, Yeah, thanks for having me. 574 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Rolling Stone's five hundred 575 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: Greatest Songs. This podcast is brought to you by Rolling 576 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: Stone and iHeartMedia. Written and hosted by me Britney Spanos 577 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 1: and Rob Sheffield. Executive produced by Jason Fine, Alex Dale 578 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: and Christian Horde, and produced by Jesse Cannon with music 579 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: by Eric Zeiler