WEBVTT - Broken 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:02.679 Previously on Happy Face. 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:06.920 Keith fell in high school. I believe it was twenty 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:10.200 five feet. When they interview killers, they have found that 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:13.280 a large percentage of them damaged their front bealob before 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:16.120 they were twenty two, changes their whole personality. 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:21.720 Keith's father, Lass was a very resourceful, ingenious man, but 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:23.040 he could be a monster. 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:27.000 He was horrible. I hated him less told him, this 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:28.640 is the way what you're going to say in court 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.360 for the mobile art or absolutely he did. 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:33.800 He dragged me to a nursing home to visit one 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:36.800 of his hunting buddies. He said, my friend's smitt. He's 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:39.279 not doing too good with his lung cancer. Keith talk 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:42.560 to him, son. Nobody likes to die alone. I never 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:43.919 feared a dead person after that. 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:46.839 One of the few people that Keith opened up to 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:51.080 about his childhood was psychologist al Carlisle swe Can. 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:54.080 By the age of eight, it was a lot of anger. 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:56.080 If you do me wrong, I was going to I 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:58.040 was bound and determined to get even. 0:00:58.000 --> 0:00:59.080 Any learning problems. 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:01.280 No life for you intelligence. 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.120 I'm very intelligent, but I just didn't adapt myself to it. 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:07.520 I received a letter a week before he got arrested 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:12.039 it said, Rose, what I did is bigger than ol J. Simpson, 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:16.600 that I'll probably be in hell forever, and the bye Keith. 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:20.240 In love fin with the sun. 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:24.440 I don't know, shine, oh. 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:30.000 Oh nice. 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:42.280 The subconscious mind often knows the truth long before we do. 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.600 I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco, and this is happy face. 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:54.400 I was driving in a car down the road, and 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:57.600 this is after your dad and I were separated. Actually 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:01.280 it was not officially divorce, but we were separated. And 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.360 they had on the news that they were searching for 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:08.480 the Green River Killer. And I go, hmm, I wonder 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:13.800 if that's Keith. Why did I say that? But I 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:19.400 think you internally know things that you don't stake, you 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:21.240 don't acknowledge, so. 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.840 Intuitively, I just said it out loud. I go, I 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:25.680 wonder if that's Keith. 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.560 And then I guess, like, oh, why did I think that? 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:34.120 I don't know, because I think by time we were separated, 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:38.000 I had so many more pieces of the puzzle, and 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:42.600 I was starting to connect things, because before it was 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.000 I got a piece here and a piece here. I 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.959 think I got enough pieces that I was beginning. 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:58.960 To connect it. Melissa also remembers having thoughts she couldn't explain. 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:04.240 There was a time where I actually had a vision 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:09.160 of my father behind bars, and there's nobody I could 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.799 tell to because nobody would believe me. It was when 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:16.400 I was in seventh grade. I was walking to school 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:20.320 and I had a mental image pop up in my 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.720 mind of my father being behind the glass and having 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:32.240 a telephone, and my stomach sunk and I felt sorrow 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.880 and sadness. I just remember thinking that was a very 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:40.040 intense emotion attached to the vision. 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.960 We've gone too far. 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:49.080 From I the Making of a Serial Killer by Jack Olsen. 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.600 Dawn was coming and pretty soon the traffic could be 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:55.400 too heavy for me to unload her on the shoulder. 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:58.440 I thought back to when I first met her and 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:02.320 loved her and to her for all time. I needed 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:05.400 to do one more killing and then end this murder 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:10.400 machine for good. I put my fist against her throat 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:14.240 for the last time, just before she passed out. I 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:20.680 told her, you're number eight, and yes, I will get 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.559 away with it. She didn't breathe again. 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.600 It's especially hard for Melissa to process some of her 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:35.880 seemingly happy memories now, even something as harmless as watching 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:37.120 television together. 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:40.719 Growing up with my dad something that we used to 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:43.040 do together as we used to watch true crime shows, 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.719 even when I was like a young girl. I remember 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.920 him sitting on the brown velvet couch and I would 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:52.560 crawl up on his lap, and then because he was 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:54.360 so tall, I would actually crawl up on the back 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:56.240 of the couch and sit on his shoulders and we 0:04:56.240 --> 0:05:00.200 would watch like Unsolved Mysteries. I remember that was seem 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.320 to be our favorite show, and I would always be 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:06.560 terrified at the end of the program as a young girl, thinking, 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:10.000 oh my gosh, there's there's a million ways I could 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:13.960 be abducted, and like just terrified, absolutely. 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.160 Terrified as you're sitting on the yeah, as. 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:20.039 I'm sitting on the shoulders of my father, thinking I 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.599 hope something like that never happens to me. I hope 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.680 that I know how to keep myself safe. And I 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:29.000 think that's partially why I watched these programs, as I 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:32.880 was looking for ways of like what did the victim 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:38.240 do that could have saved her life. I was analyzing this, 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:42.520 and ironically, I think my father was analyzing how to 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:47.080 get away with murder and what tools did the detectives have. 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:52.120 It is eerie to me to see the time my 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:56.760 timeline of events in my father's timeline of his murders, 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:01.200 because there's moments where we were to gather and then 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:07.120 knowing he had just committed a murder and now was 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:11.760 taking me to McDonald's like it was nothing. How was 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:20.320 he able to do that? Soon after my parents' divorce, 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:25.080 my dad would spend summer vacations with us, and during 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:28.880 his visitations he would say things. 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:29.480 That were. 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:36.440 Or alarming, were odd and bizarre and explicit. 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.000 What and was it targeted towards you? 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.640 Yeah, he would target it towards me. I didn't see 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.719 my brother and my sister getting the same treatment. Maybe 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:49.760 because I'm the oldest I was his confidant. 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:51.200 It was just. 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:55.600 Peppered throughout our conversations. These things he would say that 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:58.559 were startling. He would say, I know how to commit 0:06:58.600 --> 0:06:59.840 the most perfect murder. 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:01.599 How old were you? 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.320 I was a young woman. I was in my early teens, 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:08.599 and I remember thinking this is odd, but it was 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:10.760 one of the first times I heard him say something 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.480 like that. He would say, I would cut the buttons 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:17.040 off of her jeans so that my fingerprints wouldn't be 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:21.080 on them. I would then wear my cycling shoes so 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.280 that I wouldn't leave a soule print in the dirt, 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:30.559 and then I would make sure her belongings were other places. 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:36.080 From I the Creation of a Serial Killer by Jack Olsen, 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.560 I drove to a spot on the downhill side of 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:43.720 Highway fourteen on the Washington State side of the Columbia Gorge, 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:46.360 across the river from where I threw Tanya Bennett's body 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:50.040 in Oregon. I carried her over past a guardrail in 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:53.360 some garbage sacks and pitched her down a fifteen foot embankment. 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.640 I stared at her crumpled body in the weeds and thought, 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:08.480 how she'd only lasted five days with me. What a waste. 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.960 Nineteen ninety five, the year Keith Jesperson was arrested, was 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:17.800 already an incredibly traumatic one for Melissa for a variety 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:22.320 of reasons. To get further insight into what she was 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.000 going through, we traveled to meet with her high school 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:26.000 boyfriend Nick. 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:31.920 We're close to Shadele, so this is where I went 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:35.920 to high school in nineteen ninety five. When I heard 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:37.560 the news about my dad, I was going to the 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.520 school and I was dating a guy named Nick. He 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:45.840 was actually my first boyfriend. When I started my freshman 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:50.480 year here he was in my English class, and he 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:53.560 was just actually kind of simuch to my dad in 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:56.439 the sense that he was a jokester. He was funny, 0:08:56.480 --> 0:09:00.640 everybody laughed, he was charismatic. He just seemed to an edge, 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.920 and like I thought that he was a misunderstood person. 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:07.040 I was out to prove that people didn't get him right. 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.320 And my friends and everybody said that he's bad news. 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:15.640 But he had been arrested. I had heard rumors about 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.720 drug deals. He had a pager. He had money all 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:20.360 the time, cash all the time. He had a money 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.480 club with lots of one hundred dollars bills. 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:24.679 I found that appealing. 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:29.160 He asked me to dance that fall, and before I 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:31.880 knew it, he just became a part of my life, 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:37.760 you know. And I got pregnant. I got pregnant my 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:41.319 freshman year. Something was off with my body, and I 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.839 could just tell something was up, and so I got 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:48.200 a pregnancy test and I went into the bathroom stall 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:52.080 here at Shadle, right here. It was after classes, and 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:58.720 the pregnancy test turned positive, and I was alone and thinking, 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:00.880 holy shit. 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:03.080 Like what do I do? 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.760 How did he react to finding out you were pregnant. 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:10.800 Not well, not well at all. 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:12.680 He didn't handle it well. I mean, like he's a 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:15.400 teenage boy too, so like I'll give him that. But 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:19.720 I didn't handle it well either. I was in panic 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:21.760 mode at that point. Once I found I was pregnant, 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.960 I was terrified. I had no idea what to do. 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.440 I couldn't tell my mom. I felt like if I 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:28.960 told my mom, she would think I was a whore. 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:33.400 And so right after I found out that was pregnant 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:35.760 is when the news hit about my dad. 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:44.240 With her mother and siblings living in poverty, Melissa found 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:49.360 herself once again, back in her grandmother's basement, young and 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.880 scared and having to face a really difficult choice. 0:10:54.760 --> 0:11:00.600 You only have believe it's twelve weeks, and every week 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.920 that would pass, it was just like getting closer to 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.800 that deadline and the pressure is building. 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:08.680 But also at the same time, while I was going 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.560 through that, I was learning about my dad and his 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.680 crimes and now we're living in the basement of my 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:18.280 grandmother's house. That's where Nick actually became a really critical 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:19.040 part in my. 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:20.520 Life because he had a car. 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:23.319 He would actually come to the north side of town 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:25.160 and come pick me up and take me to school. 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:28.000 He made it so much more convenient to get to school, 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:35.520 and I was in my relationship with him. It was a 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:40.920 very dysfunctional relationship. It was extreme highs and lows, and 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:42.719 when things were good, they were good. When things were 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:49.280 bad they were extremely bad. Physical and he was very 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:53.040 possessive of me. He would hold my when we walk 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:57.880 around high school. He would hold my belt loop and 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:00.280 just like he always had his hands on me, was 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:05.520 always claiming me with his space. And we were constantly 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:09.440 together and never had a break. It was a very 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.840 codepententent abusive relationship. I would say. 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:21.400 From I the Creation of a Serial Killer by Jack Olsen, 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.160 I went back to my truck and rehearsed the lies 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.160 I planned to tell when I was arrested. I took 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:30.720 myself back to when I killed Tanya and tried to 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.360 figure out what made me cross the line into murder. 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.439 Was it the things I read about in the detective magazines, 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.120 arson animal abuse that I killed to make up for 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:43.400 a wasted life, for my own fuck ups. Was it 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:48.199 dad's fault, my brother's, my mother's. It was too easy 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:51.320 to blame the rest of the family. Maybe I was 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.280 just a no good son of a bitch that got 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.760 off on killing women. Maybe it was my nature. 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.360 I was living a nightmare and it became my only 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.200 option in my mind. When I came home one day 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:09.559 saw my sleeping bag on the cot and thought, a 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:13.000 crib does not fit here next to a cot. I 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:15.280 just couldn't see it, and that's when the choice was 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.160 made for me. I don't see how a baby bed 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:23.240 could be right there, and it couldn't bear the thought 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.000 of being financially dependent on Nick or welfare like my 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.360 mom was. So I felt like the only option for 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.160 me to break out of this poverty was to not 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:38.160 have the baby. If anybody says nineteen ninety five, some 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.000 people will think, oh Jay Simpson. Some people will think 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:45.319 you know Menanda's brothers or something like that. I think 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:50.120 of the time I was in that dark bathroom stall, 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:52.800 seeing I was pregnant and the news hitting of my 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:57.439 dad and losing everything in my life. I really thought 0:13:58.440 --> 0:13:59.480 everything was against me. 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:15.480 As Melissa began to put the pieces of her past 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.960 back together after more than twenty years, she decided to 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:23.920 visit Nick, maybe to confront him, maybe foreclosure. It was 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.040 hard to tell, maybe just to remember. 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:29.800 How far away from the house. 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:32.640 We're just about a minute a walk. 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:39.600 Okay, I just haven't seen him for at least twenty years. 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.800 I'm so nervous. Your destination is on the left. 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:48.479 Oh right now, right there. 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:51.400 Well, it's a cute house. Oh there he is on 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:56.960 the fort. Oh my god, he sees us. Okay, he's 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:05.720 dressed nice too. Okay, Hey, Nick, how are you a 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:06.320 long time? 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:06.440 No? 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:19.280 See, I'll go to say so. Thanks for agreeing it. 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:19.960 Thanks. 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:21.720 So is the SR place? 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:23.400 Yeah, we'll go. 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.360 Melissa didn't think that Nick would sit down and meet 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.600 with her, and when I called him and reached out, 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:38.280 he immediately responded with such positivity. The first thing you 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:41.520 thought of when you walked through the door was it 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:44.960 was so bright and cheerful and didn't look like a 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:50.440 bachelor pad at all. The house was spotless, almost as 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:52.680 if it were staged for a real estate photo. 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:54.920 I've got lots of spare room because I'm hoping to 0:15:54.920 --> 0:16:00.560 get my kids coming soon. I'm working on it, working 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:01.320 on getting here. 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:05.560 There was something very tidy and cheerful about the house, 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:09.680 and something very sad too, because you could feel the 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:14.080 absence of his kids. It's like he had built this 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:18.680 house for his children to enjoy, and they weren't there, so. 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:24.360 State, No, they're with their mom right now. And it's 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:29.240 a long story. I was married for seven years, have 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:34.160 four kids, and all I want is my weekends, and 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:35.920 I just want the kids to know that I've been 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:39.840 trying and then I never stopped and I've never given up. 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.240 And whatever their mom says to them, they're going to 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.840 know something else someday too. And that's about all I 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:47.840 want to say about it right now, because it's it's 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.520 a mess. Sorry about that. Oh, it's okay, and life 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:52.880 and life happens. So yeah, And then I got one 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:53.760 more spot. 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.280 At the end of the tour. We settled down at 0:16:56.280 --> 0:17:00.720 this impeccably clean dining room table to talk about his 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:01.760 pastor with Morssa. 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:07.000 Do you remember my members a little glory me too 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:07.760 on some of that. 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:10.680 What do you remember from maybe just maybe you could 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:13.119 just tell me what you remember of that time frame? 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:17.560 And then well, I remember one day you just coming 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.199 out and telling me that there was something about your 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.120 dad you wanted to tell me, and you weren't sure 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.600 if if the information was true or what to believe, 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:30.680 and you told me what you knew. It was shocking 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:32.439 to me, but I didn't know what to say or 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:33.560 what to do to help you. 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:38.000 Time one murder, it was Julie Winningham, I didn't even 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:40.359 know her name yet, and we went to the library. 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:44.960 We did several times and we would look up the 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.280 articles and I remember you had said you weren't sure 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.560 what to believe in it was shocking, and you also 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:55.280 had heard it after he was arrested. He had wrote 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:59.600 a letter to his family that had stuff in it 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:01.840 that you didn't get to know what was in it, 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.719 but you heard that he had made a lot of 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:11.080 statements that would have would be admissions. And I didn't 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.160 know what to think either. Yeah, we were just young. 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.720 I was fifteen. How old were you seen fifteen as well? 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.160 Both age. I remember just being stunned. I'm not sure 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:20.840 what to believe. 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:24.520 Well, I just I trust to do and I didn't 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:28.000 feel judgment from you about it at all. Well. I 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:32.760 remember one paper in particular, there was a statement from 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.000 the son of Julie Winningham, the victim, that was towards 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.439 the end, towards the trial, and that was pretty devastating 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:44.240 where he talked about obviously he's torn up and devastated, 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.240 rightfully so, and wanted my dad to be killed, like 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:49.560 he wanted him dead. And I remember thinking, like, this 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:51.119 is really hard. At the time, you know, it was 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:53.440 a transition, like I still loved my dad and was 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.520 trying to figure out how to reconcile my mind these 0:18:56.560 --> 0:19:01.359 crimes and then also wanted to not believe it, and 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:02.560 then reading that was hard. 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:06.119 So that's what I remember, just as you said it. 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.280 And it was hard to help you in any way 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.200 other than just kind of being your friend to listen 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:14.240 and be there if I could. You didn't want to 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:16.840 believe it. I remember that out of all of the 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.200 talking that we did, most of it you didn't want 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:21.080 it to be true. 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:22.639 Do you remember meeting him? 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:27.800 Yes, once. He was a real nice guy, just calming 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:32.800 and there was nothing, nothing to abnormal at all about him. 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:34.320 And I didn't realize. 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.320 Because you were my boyfriend at the time, no or 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:38.879 was he just like nobody. 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:40.679 Pulled me into the kitchen and asked me, you know 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:41.919 how I felt about you. 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:46.720 And I really, yeah, I remember that, and I told 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:48.639 him that I cared about you a lot and you 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:51.520 were really cool, and uh, I just told him that 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:53.520 it was nice to meet him, and I thanked him 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:54.919 and I tried to keep it. 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:57.840 Cool, yeah, because you know I was nervous. You know, 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:00.400 I've never met him before. But he didn't didn't immediate 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:02.200 me at all. He didn't scare me in any way. 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.480 I didn't feel any Why would I have. 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:20.280 From The Oregonian March twenty ninth, nineteen ninety five by 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:24.920 John Painter Junior, a long haul trucker told a Clark 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:28.879 County Sheriff's Office detective by phone that he strangled Julianne Winningham, 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:31.560 forty one, while raping her in the sleeper cap with 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:36.760 his rig after gagging her with duct tape. During the autopsy, 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:40.600 smokelike stains were found on parts of her body, suggesting 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:47.199 the corpse had been hauled around before being dumped. Keith H. Jesperson, 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.439 forty made his admission Friday to Detective Rick Buckner in 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:54.600 a telephone conversation. In an earlier phone message to Buckner 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:57.960 on Thursday, Jessperson, who is six feet six inches tall 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:01.560 and weighs two hundred and fifty pounds, that he'd tried 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:04.800 to kill himself a couple of times and it hasn't worked. 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:08.160 Not enough pills in the damn country. 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:25.880 While Melissa has very strong recollections about what transpired between 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.680 her and Nick, Nick's memories are much more fond and kinder. 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.080 What becomes clear is that they went through a very 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:36.920 difficult situation as two young teenagers and it's still hard 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:38.520 as adults. 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:40.680 Something that I haven't really talked about a lot, though, 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:42.240 is that we got pregnant. 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.600 Do you remember that? Yes, And I haven't talked to 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:52.320 anybody about that. I tried not to think about it then, 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:59.680 and it came back years later. I mean, I had 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:01.719 a lot of emotions that came from it, and it 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:07.440 was when I had children later that's when things came back, 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:11.119 and that's when I started thinking about it again because 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:16.600 I would get too much emotions to think about it. 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:24.320 So I didn't and I probably should have. Now looking 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:29.800 back on it, I wish I would have go with 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:35.360 it better and maybe talk to you more about our options. 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:38.600 And I don't know, I have. 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:40.879 No blame, Like we're young kids. 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:43.560 Is there a physical side to your relationship? 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:48.439 There was a couple of incidents, do you remember, what 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:51.720 do you mean? Like we were we had kind of 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:57.400 a violent relationship a little bit. There are some aspects 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:01.200 that were were not healthy. 0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:05.119 Probably arguing more than we should about certain things, not 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:09.040 knowing how to talk about it. Yeah, yeah, I remember 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:15.520 we had some some heated discussions about what we know, 0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:20.639 what we wanted to do, and how we were going 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:24.560 to move forward. I do remember that. 0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:26.800 Yeah. 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:29.720 Do you think this was out of fear? Yeah? Probably. 0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:34.760 You could tell that there was a pain, a hesitation 0:23:35.040 --> 0:23:38.520 when Nick spoke about his own emotions regarding Melissa's pregnancy, 0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:43.240 and it seemed like it was something that deeply bothered 0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:47.719 him even now. Did you follow her father's case at 0:23:47.720 --> 0:23:49.240 all over the years, do you remember? 0:23:50.840 --> 0:23:55.240 No? I didn't, only only because I was dealing with 0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:58.960 my own emotions about stuff with her and I then 0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:01.920 at that time I hadn't processed all the way yet. Anyways, 0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:04.439 The last time I really thought about you, though, mostly 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:09.080 was when I was first married and had my first kid. 0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:11.719 I was talking to my wife about you. 0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:14.600 Yeah, I got it, I got it. 0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:20.879 I won't forget those those times. It's going to be 0:24:20.960 --> 0:24:24.199 with me forever. Of course, it was a It was 0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:27.879 an impact on my life too. Yeah, And like I 0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:30.640 told you, I cared about you. So you were one 0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:32.600 that one that got away for. 0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:38.080 Me from I The Making of a Serial Killer by 0:24:38.160 --> 0:24:43.119 Jack Olsen. My fourteen year old son Jason and my 0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:46.800 fifteen year old daughter Melissa visited me through glass, and 0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:51.040 it only made things worse. The phone connection was bad 0:24:51.320 --> 0:24:53.960 and the guards rushed me away before we really started talking. 0:24:55.560 --> 0:24:58.560 I cried as they led me off. I felt sorry 0:24:58.600 --> 0:25:00.879 that my kids had to see me this way. I 0:25:00.920 --> 0:25:03.800